How low can it go?

From CNN/Money:

Mortgage rates keep plunging: 15-year dips below 3%

Mortgage rates continued to plunge to new lows this week, with interest rates on the 15-year fixed rate mortgage dipping below 3% for the first time on record.

The 30-year fixed mortgage, the most popular mortgage product, fell by 0.03 percentage points to 3.75%, setting yet another record for the fifth week in a row, according to a weekly survey by Freddie Mac. Last year, 30-year loans averaged 4.55%. The new low can save borrowers about $47 a month for every $100,000 borrowed. Over a 30-year term, that comes to $16,756.

Rates on the 15-year fixed mortgage, which is popular among those looking to refinance, fell to 2.97% — the first time it has dropped below 3% since Freddie Mac began tracking the weekly data. Down from 3.74% a year ago, the new 15-year rate would lower borrowing costs to $689 a month for every $100,000 borrowed, a $37 savings compared to last year.

The continued slide in mortgage rates is, in part, due to ongoing economic turmoil in Europe, according to Freddie Mac’s chief economist, Frank Nothaft.

“Market concerns over tensions in the Eurozone led to a decline in long-term Treasury bond yields helping to bring fixed mortgage rates to new record lows this week,” he said.

Rates are almost half what they were at the peak of the housing bubble in mid-2006. At the time, the average interest rate was about 6.75% for a 30-year loan.

This entry was posted in Economics, Mortgages, Risky Lending. Bookmark the permalink.

216 Responses to How low can it go?

  1. soutwin says:

    How low ? try under 1%

  2. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  3. grim says:

    Damn, and I just picked up a new Mossberg Chainsaw.

    Zombie apocalypse? CDC says not to worry, despite strange string of incidents

    If the news has you worried lately that a zombie apocalypse may soon be under way, don’t panic.

    According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, you’re not likely to find the dead walking around, gnawing at your flesh.

    “CDC does not know of a virus or condition that would reanimate the dead (or one that would present zombie-like symptoms),” agency spokesman David Daigle said in an e-mail to the Huffington Post today.

    Yes, you read that right: The federal agency aimed to protect the United States from disease outbreaks has officially weighed in on the possibility of actual zombies.

    The comment comes after a string of strange incidents involving seemingly non-human behavior over the last week.

    • In Miami, a naked man was shot by police after eating the face of another man on the side of a highway.

    • In Maryland, a college student told investigators he ate the heart and brain of a dismembered body found in his home.

    • In Hackensack, a man stabbed himself and threw pieces of his intestines at police.

    • And in Canada, police are searching for a porn actor who allegedly killed a young man with an ice pick, dismembered the body and then raped and ate flesh from the corpse.

    Even the CDC has a page on its website dedicated to “Zombie Preparedness.” But that is simply a tongue-in-cheek page with a very serious message:

    “If you are generally well equipped to deal with a zombie apocalypse, you will be prepared for a hurricane, pandemic, earthquake, or terrorist attack,” Dr. Ali Khan, the CDC’s director, says on the site.

  4. Mikeinwaiting says:

    “That quality is apparent in the strength of local volunteerism, said Frank Sapienza, Verona’s part-time mayor. During the economic downturn, he said, no services were cut. Taxes are considered reasonable, especially when compared with those of neighboring communities. ”

    Considering Verona is next to Montclair that ain’t saying much.

  5. grim says:

    I’d pick the Sunset/Afterglow sections of Verona over Montclair, West Orange, and the like any day.

  6. grim says:

    Cedars in Caldwell is another hidden gem of a neighborhood.

  7. Obviously, the gubmint has begun a disinformation campaign on zombie apocalypse.

  8. Let’s see how well these neighborhoods hold up under zombie assault.

  9. grim says:

    10 – Ideal location due to the proximity of the old Essex County Asylum for the Insane.

  10. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Grim just did a quick look-see on the GSMLS if I were looking in that area that town would be on my list. I found a couple of nice 3 BDS around 400 k taxes figure 10k per YR. I figure 2550.00 a month PITI 10% down with 4% interest for one I ran.

  11. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Meat 9 I will be out in the middle of a lake on a pontoon boat, zombies don’t swim at least in any of the movies I’ve seen.

  12. Mikeinwaiting says:

    I do not know if I was in a “good section ” as I do not know the town.

  13. Confused in NJ says:

    Stock market rallies in each of the past three years were fueled by combinations of massive central bank and government stimulus spending. That maybe the only hope for equities this year, too.

    I would say Bernake is the King of Ponzi stealing Tax dollars to prop the market for 3 plus years.

  14. Sima says:

    I mentioned yesterday about all the young adults in their 20s in NJ who live at home with their parents because they don’t earn enough (even though they may work 24/7) to move out on their own.
    According to the NY Times, the hedge fund manager that outsmarted JP Morgan (Boaz Weinstein)has commented on that to determine countries in trouble in Europe:
    “Dressed in a sharp blue suit, Mr. Weinstein stepped up to the microphone and opened with a joke that only a financial wonk would appreciate. He showed a slide comparing the cost of credit default swaps on various government debt to the percentage of young men in those countries who live with their parents. The slide titled “Mamma Mia!” suggested that, by that measure, Greece, Portugal and Italy were in trouble. ”
    uh-oh…..

  15. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [15] Confused – I went to 50% cash the day of the FB IPO, was hoping for a big rally to sell into. This gives me dry powder for just such an event as you described. I’m eyeing June 19-20, the dates of the next FOMC meeting, as a likely re-entry point.

    Stock market rallies in each of the past three years were fueled by combinations of massive central bank and government stimulus spending. That maybe the only hope for equities this year, too.

  16. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [16] Sima – As many here often opine, kids today are just completely lacking the hustle ethic. I place about 50% blame on their parents and the other 50% blame on the credit-based hell we’ve created. Children and teens didn’t used to grow up in a “get the stuff now, figure out how to pay for it later” world. I would hazard to say that most of the contributors here who went to elementary school in the ’60s grew up in a “figure out how to make the 100% of the money needed first and then buy the stuff” world. From lemonade stands, to shoveling driveways, paper routes, fast food jobs, to all the part and full-time jobs through college all of us believed two things that kids no longer believe:

    1. I *have* to make the money first, then buy the stuff after I’ve made it.
    2. My parents are not going help me one iota.

    Knowing the above two things as gospel, I think, sparked enormous creativity and enormous independence that a whole generation of kids lacks today and may lack for their entire lives. Contrast that to today’s kids. Their mind works like this: I want an iPhone. I have an iPhone. cool.

    I mentioned yesterday about all the young adults in their 20s in NJ who live at home with their parents because they don’t earn enough (even though they may work 24/7) to move out on their own.

  17. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Sima – from your post yesterday – “can’t seem to earn enough” is emblematic wording. I would offer that they cannot *save* enough because saving is a foreign concept to them. I think if you asked them what saving is they would tell you it’s what you do with any money you have left over after you buy whatever you want and make the minimum payment(s) on your credit card(s). If you can’t save *any* money while you’re living rent-free at home, what chances do any of them have in the real world? Their only real hope is that medical science allows their parents to live very, very, very long lives.

    Also, almost every single adult in their 20s that I know of is still living at home because while they work and work (even 24/7), they cannot seem to earn enough to move out on their own in NJ. And forget any job benefits for this group.

  18. scribe says:

    The kids get overburdened with too much school work. Assignments over the summer, and lots of afterschool activities. They don’t have the time to just hang out and get the kind of afterschool jobs we had in the 1960’s. And those jobs at the mall, etc., are now filled by adults. They also get pressured to do freebie “internships.”

  19. joyce says:

    19 & 20

    I agree with both… plus the real value of the wages is lower and lower for everyone.

  20. 1987 Condo Buyer says:

    Sending kid to NC State ($29k), get him out of metro NY/NJ, houses and life in NC much cheaper. Saved up for college over last 18 years, will use my expiring 4% CDs and pay cash. Felt Verona was over taxed, live in Cedar Grove, 20% less on RE Tax.

  21. seif says:

    I think it was Freedy who last week said “how can this house be under contract at $725K?”

    Well…it couldn’t.

    Last LP: $725,000 ML#: 1200134
    Addr: 57 SURREY LN
    Twn: TENAFLY Zip: 07670

    Orig LP: $799,100
    Sold: $670,000

    SD: 5/31/2012 UCD: 4/12/2012 DOM: 101

  22. Phoenix says:

    18- The Original NJ ExPat-

    “I *have* to make the money first, then buy the stuff after I’ve made it.”
    Adults created the “credit” issues. Adult’s are the ones currently that are crying how they can no longer tap their home equity lines of credit for more money. Adults are the ones asking for a “principal reduction” on their mortgage. The kids have been taught to be this way by adults that went to college in order to learn how to market directly to children starting at a young age. It’s no accident that they have turned out this way. And look at all these houses in foreclosure- I guess we can blame all of that on kid’s “poor work ethic” also.

  23. Not all Millennials are hyper-consuming bags of meat and blood. The smartest of them realize they are about to be handed the job of cleaning up the toxic mess created by the Boomers, and I think they will actually do a decent job of it (even if for no other reason than it can’t get much worse than it is now).

    I suppose I’m biased, but my daughter and most of her friends have their heads screwed on much straighter than most of my peers. Like most of the best of the Mills, they have an acute awareness that many things you choose to own can end up owning you.

  24. Higher edumacation will be the last great leveraged asset bubble to burst. Once that goes, it’s straight back to the Dark Ages…as we will have no other choice but to live within our means.

    There’s no turning back now. The die has been cast.

  25. cobbler says:

    Re. Verona:
    School district is dead last among the peers (DFG I) on all state tests (HSPT, etc.) and SATs, for as many years as they have statistics – while spending about the same. They are doing much worse than many towns in less affluent DFGs, no point of looking there unless you are dead set on a private school for the kids, or a deal is irresistible.

  26. JJ's Weiner says:

    7. I’d take Madison over either of those ‘

  27. cobbler says:

    No comment here (but probably explains a bunch of real estate myths, as well):

    PRINCETON, NJ — Forty-six percent of Americans believe in the creationist view that God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years. The prevalence of this creationist view of the origin of humans is essentially unchanged from 30 years ago, when Gallup first asked the question…

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/Hold-Creationist-View-Human-Origins.aspx

  28. t c m says:

    #20 – Scribe –

    I agree totally.

    Things are so different now. I worked in HS about 25 -30 hours a week in a grocery store after school and weekends. I wouldn’t recommend it. I was exhausted after work, and found it hard to study the way I should have. On the other hand, I didn’t have parents who would hand money over to me, so if I wanted anything, I had to find the money myself.

    In any case, it’s not so easy for kids to find jobs – especially college kids for the summer only. The job situation stinks for everyone, why would you think it’s only a matter of work ethic and lazy attitudes?

  29. t c m says:

    Re: Verona –

    The article says residents can park at Montclair St. College – would anyone know if there is a waiting list? Some of these towns have insane waiting lists for parking.

  30. Brian says:

    Old people always complain about young people. Too funny. If you think about it, nothing really has changed in that regard.

  31. joyce says:

    exactly Brian

  32. Attention college students applying to law school: put down the LSAT prep book. You might want to consider another line of work.

    In what could be either a sign of the economic times or simply an extreme case, a law firm in Boston posted a position on Boston College Law School’s career site for an associate position with a less-than-generous salary of $10,000.

    The job is for a full-time associate at Gilbert & O’Bryan LLP, a Boston law firm specializing in domestic relations, estate planning, bankruptcy and civil service law.

    The Boston Business Journal got a tip from a currently employed Boston College Law School graduate who spotted the posting and said the ad was “demoralizing.”

    Compensation for the full-time associate position — suited for a new lawyer or “someone returning to a legal career” — is based mainly on a “percentage of work billed and collected,” which means a percentage of what’s billed to the firm’s clients. (Larry O’Bryan, partner at the firm, wouldn’t disclose the percentage amount, but says it’s within the range of what firms typically pay.) The associate would have their own case load and clients from the get-go, according to the posting, which goes on to say, “we expect an associate to earn ten thousand dollars in compensation in the first year.”

    Gilbert & O’Bryan has received 32 applications for the job so far, more than they were expecting, says O’Bryan. The position was listed at a number of Boston-area law schools.

    As the BC alum pointed out, if the associate works a typical 40-hour week, the salary works out to about $4.80 an hour. The minimum wage in Massachusetts is $8 an hour, while the federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-exchange/attention-lawyers-10-000-salary-190253092.html

  33. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [20] scribe – So there is just no way for the kids to be adequately employed in their teens? How’s that working out? It looks to be that what that yields is there being no way for them to be adequately employed in their 20’s. And soon it will be their 30’s. They sure do grow up having lots of nice toys considering the zero income they earn. It all started changing in the mid 70’s. Inflation started eating the family lunch so Mom went to work to fill the gap. The next generation rolls around and it’s automatic that both Mom and Dad will work. Mom and Dad are so busy working and not spending any time with the kids so they buy their kids lots of stuff out of guilt and they want their small amount of family time together to be all “happy” time, so discipline gets thrown away too. You can’t have discipline and happiness in the same moment and there are so few moments now so discipline is what gets dropped. Mommy and Daddy and kids are all friends now. Parents are so used to the restraint they have to show in the workplace 40+ hours a week that they don’t tell their kids what to do, they just try to negotiate and encourage pleasant behaviors from them with no discipline and ever diminishing oversight. When was the last time you even heard somebody say that someone’s child was “spoiled” by their parents. It’s dropped completely out of the vocabulary because they’re mostly all spoiled now. You know what spoiled goods are generally worth, right? Exactly.

    The kids get overburdened with too much school work. Assignments over the summer, and lots of afterschool activities. They don’t have the time to just hang out and get the kind of afterschool jobs we had in the 1960′s. And those jobs at the mall, etc., are now filled by adults. They also get pressured to do freebie “internships.”

  34. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [24] Phoenix – oh you’re exactly right, no argument here. The kids didn’t ruin themselves, the parents are to blame, unless you want to make a case that Nixon is to blame, but he only took us off the Gold standard because of the economic mis-steps of Kennedy and Johnson, and…ahhh, let’s just stick to blaming the parents. See [35] above.

  35. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [26] clot – 100% agree and am quite worried about that one. We tend to have a lot of people employed at Universities in the Boston area. I’m thinking Yale-Singapore might be our kid’s safety school in 8 & 10 years and we might just move there at that time too.

    Higher edumacation will be the last great leveraged asset bubble to burst. Once that goes, it’s straight back to the Dark Ages…as we will have no other choice but to live within our means.

    There’s no turning back now. The die has been cast.

  36. joyce says:

    (36)

    Expat,
    In my opinion, the decision to sever the final ties to a gold standard in favor of pure fiat was not due to past mistakes by anyone. If you also look at history well before that, the move from a hard currency to fiat was slowly but surely always the desire of the financiers.

  37. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [30] tcm: That’s part of the winning formula. Another part is spending lots and lots of time with your kids, and that means both parents. When it comes to parenting, quantity is job one.

    On the other hand, I didn’t have parents who would hand money over to me, so if I wanted anything, I had to find the money myself.

  38. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [38] joyce – add Dying of Money, written in 1974, to your reading list and see if you still think the switch to fiat wasn’t caused by economic mis-steps of previous administrations. It’s very well quantified there. If you don’t want to buy the book, here it is for free:

    http://esocap.com/uploads/files/Dying%20of%20Money.pdf

  39. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Oh, it’s going to be a regular laugh riot.

    Old people always complain about young people. Too funny.

  40. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Going out for a late sushi lunch now. Any comments I may make later will be sake-fueled.

  41. gary says:

    Hey millenials, get off the f*cking couch, drop the martyr complex, put away the violin and hankie, turn off the f*cking iShit and start filling out applications:

    http://www.snagajob.com/job-seeker/jobs/search-results.aspx?radius=10&pagesize=20&city=paramus&stateProvCode=NJ&stateName=New%20Jersey&initialRequest=True&adv=False

  42. joyce says:

    (43)
    Gary,
    I agree. But as to Brian’s comment, I will say that my grandfather (may he rest in peace) always referred to my father as spoiled, and my father is older than I think you are from reading you various posts.

  43. joyce says:

    (40)
    Expat,

    I will try to give it a look. My point is that the ball started rolling on the path to pure fiat a very long time before that, and I believe it was intential.

  44. expat (37)-

    Jim Rogers is already there, and he’s no dummy.

  45. joyce (45)-

    Hell yeah, it’s intentional. And, the path to fiat began in 1913.

    You should put The Creature From Jekyll Island on your reading list.

  46. joyce says:

    Meat,
    Haha, I was going to suggest that to Expat.

    G. Edward Griffin has some good speeches on youtube.

    I also like Secrets of the Temple

  47. SRK says:

    Hey, I think in every generation there are spolit kids and those that arent. Most probably, like the abused become abusers, the spolit become spoilers ! :-) My kids dont have iphones, none of their friends do, may be smart phones. None of them worked or volunteered during the school year, but in the summers they did starting in middle school. I see more craze for iphones among the 40s than these kids actually ! And they dont crave for fancy cars the way I have heard some of the 40s do. May be I havent seen enough of them, and may be because we live in a town of modest means, because I do hear from friends who live in neighbouring blue-ribbon school towns about how their kids ‘demand’ iphones, and how kids get their parents’ older BMWs when they get their liscences, how they want expensive sweet sixteen and graduation parties etc etc. But same friends I have seen competing with each other in doing home-improvements and buying cars, SUVs and vans, so who can blame their kids. btw, our kids worked whatever jobs they got, mostly restaurants and fast-food places – doing dishes, tables, whatever, but I hear some blue-ribbonny kids refuse to do these jobs !

  48. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    47 – I was going to inquire whether Joyce was referring to Jekyll Island. The book I mentioned you couldn’t even get your hands on a few years ago. It used to cost a couple hundred dollars to get your hands on a copy. I can’t stop re-reading it. Anyway, I have no love lost for fractional reserve lending, but what usually leads to fiat is three things. Over the last several thousand years, always the winner:

    1. Over-spending on military (especially failed campaigns)
    It’s a two way tie for second place:
    2. Corruption
    2. Incompetent Management.

    Seen any of these lately?

    IIRC, the average life span of a fiat currency is something like 18 years? Maybe I’m mis-remembering and it’s 28 years? Anyway, we’re way past our expiration date for, at least, four reasons:

    1. Somehow we pulled off the impossible by going fiat, nee, leading the world into pure fiat while retaining reserve currency status. That was a truly grand trick.
    2. As the world reserve currency, we always have access to wealth (some would say capital, but capital is only as good as the tangible wealth we buy with it). Everybody will lend to us no matter what because:
    3. We have been smart enough to devote enough of that wealth to military spending which because:
    4. A commodity that every nation needs for the foreseeable future, oil, can be denominated only in dollars because: (Go back to 1.)

    In a nutshell (I wonder when that became one word, it should be two, right?):

    All currencies are backed by nothing and ours is the best which means everyone wants ours which means the world’s wealth flows to us and we use a substantial amount of that wealth to maintain the best military to insure that the world’s most valuable commodity (measured in importance to commerce and production) can only be bought with our currency which is backed by nothing…(continue back to the beginning of this sentence and keep reading)

    Circular, get it?

    I don’t care if you’re Lichtenstein, you’ll get invaded right quick by the US or it’s minions if you dare make any noise about trading oil for anything except dollars or backing your currency with any tangible commodity.

    Any questions?

    The sake was good.

  49. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [49] SRK – I knew there was good reason for me to like you.

  50. Shore Guy says:

    “All currencies are backed by nothing ”

    Ours is backed by Minuteman Missiles, depleted-uranium munitions, the Stealth Bomber, the Sixth Fleet, the 82nd Airborne, etc.

    We traded gold, which had to be shipped overseas to settle accounts, for military power, which few countries want us to ship over to their land in order to settle accounts.

  51. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Me likey;-) (and I don’t ever say that at my local Sushi restaurant, BTW)

    We traded gold, which had to be shipped overseas to settle accounts, for military power, which few countries want us to ship over to their land in order to settle accounts.

  52. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I guess you could say the US is the bully who steals the rest of the world’s lunch money. But who are they going to steal from when the rest of the world runs out of lunch money? Think about that one the next time you walk by a mirror.

  53. SRK says:

    51 Expat, :-) Thanks !

  54. Confused in NJ says:

    17.The Original NJ ExPat says:
    June 2, 2012 at 10:53 am
    [15] Confused – I went to 50% cash the day of the FB IPO, was hoping for a big rally to sell into. This gives me dry powder for just such an event as you described. I’m eyeing June 19-20, the dates of the next FOMC meeting, as a likely re-entry point.

    I took a different approach, never liked the Musical Chairs Wall Street Casino Scenario, so I bailed in 1998, after I amassed a lifetime critical mass and parked it in safe haven. Won’t actually need it myself, it’s for inheritance, and I sleep at night. Of course either of our approaches may be meaningless given current state of World Affairs & American Leaders? I worry that the man with his finger on the red button doesn’t even understand basic biology.

  55. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Confused – I actually share your approach, if I read between the lines correctly. I was talking about my 401k and only at my current company AND I’ve already taken the maximum loan against that account and also parked it and other monies in, as I think you intimate, a wealth store of value? My other rollover accounts, mostly rollovers of previous 401ks, did exceptionally well yesterday, as did most mining stocks and similar companies;-)

    I took a different approach, never liked the Musical Chairs Wall Street Casino Scenario, so I bailed in 1998, after I amassed a lifetime critical mass and parked it in safe haven. Won’t actually need it myself, it’s for inheritance, and I sleep at night. Of course either of our approaches may be meaningless given current state of World Affairs & American Leaders? I worry that the man with his finger on the red button doesn’t even understand basic biology.

  56. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    About once a month an announcement went out in the evening, usually a weekend evening because my dad didn’t get home from work until about 7pm, “We’re going to McDonald’s!”, this was in the late 60’s and early 70’s. Five kids in my family, my parents (and it was always both of them, this was a special event after all) were not going to get to the counter and say what do you want?, what are you having?, etc. We knew the drill. Hop into the maroon 9 passenger ’66 Olds Vista Cruiser station wagon with the black vinyl seats (ouch!, ouch!, OUCH!). When we got to the McDonald’s in Rockaway on route 46 we each got one dollar bill and have at it. I, being the oldest, was the best at math. I *could* get a hamburger, a french fry, a small soda, AND an apple pie and still have pennies of change back from my dollar. I *could not* get a cheeseburger, a french fry, a small soda, AND and apple pie for under $1. And I really love cheeseburgers. A cheeseburger is at least 3 times greater than a hamburger in culinary perfection. But I loved those warm apple pies, too. My life tweak to this dilemma? As soon as the “We’re going to McDonald’s!” cry went out, I raced to the fridge for a slice of cheese. As sons as my siblings realized what I was doing (taking advantage of market inefficiencies, of course), we would be trampling each other to get to the fridge for slices of cheese when the call went out. There was very often less than 5 slices of cheese in the fridge when the market spike occurred. There were losers.

  57. SRK says:

    35 Expat, We too are friends with the kids, discuss and debate about anything and everything under the sun, go to the movies, dinner and all that. But we tell them we will always be parents, even when they are 50 and we are 80, and we wont shut up if we see something we dont like ! We told them that at bachelors’ level they would study only engineering, after that they could do whatever – philosophy, political science, law, Mayan history, medicine, whatever…They both struggled in their engg studies, but managed… No college visits and ‘do you get good vibes here, do you see yourself being happy here’ kind of stuff. ‘3 hours driving from home, draw up a list of max 10 colleges, when acceptances come in choose based on money, maximum payment should be equivalent to cost of education at Rutgers, so if you get scholarships to cover the rest you go to where you want, else stay with Rutgers’. Older one got a job in a bank (programming) right after college, but now wants to go into professional photography, and so be it, I am not interfering, true to my word ! :-) I still remind them both of them of manners, thanking folks, sending personal greetings to past mentors, teachers, etc. I keep reminding them that to thrive in this country they have to be in ‘immigrant mode’ constantly, always work hard without any sense of entitlement. Skills are assets, but hard-work is a virtue, right ? !

  58. toomuchchange says:

    Think of the financial commitment a one year lease is now for parents of jobless or low-paid kid(s) and for the kid(s) themselves. You sure can’t assume the kid will get a job within the next year that will pay enough to cover the rent and expenses.

    Even if you and your kid(s) are lucky enough to have jobs now, are you all going to assume that will be true for all parties for the life of the lease and go ahead and sign and co-sign a lease to the tune of thousands of dollars?

    Or, are you going to play things safe [and scared] and all wait the recession out in the same place?

    I have to say I think for many, staying together for the time being is by far the smartest thing to do.

    Undesirable in many respects — well yeah. But still the smartest thing to do.

    I myself wonder how many will still be at home in three or even five years. My gues is quite a few.

  59. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [59] SRK, kids, college – I am 8 years off from it as a parent, but I was the first of 5 to go through it as a kid. My dad was an engineer, but I was never pushed that way. My mom, of course, thought I would be a doctor, but no real pressure. In 1977 Rutgers was $2600/year including EVERYTHING except books, which were less than $100 per semester and that seemed like a shitload. I eventually cycled myself through biochem, microbio, bio, even history. All I cared about was not having classes on Friday. Yeah, I was that kid. One day a friend of a friend, a Cook college kid who grew up on a farm, actually pulled me aside to give me some advice. I’m not kidding, he used to wear a John Deere hat every day circa 1980 and he had curly red hair sticking out from under his hat, he was about 6′ 3″. Everything about him said “farm”. He was from South Jersey but he sounded like he was from Alabammy. He said, with his southern drawl, “ExPat, you’re so good at all the courses we call ball busters. Physics, Calculus, Chemistry, Computer programming AND you don’t seem to care about your grades. You do good in all the hard courses without showing up, and the courses you need to show up for you don’t and you get a C, a D, or an F. In the majors you’re following you need to get good grades and go to grad school. Since you have the talent in the hard sciences, why don’t you just switch to engineering and at least have a good job when you graduate?” I couldn’t see the flaw in his logic, so I switched to Electrical Engineering. It turns out I come from a long line of engineers who never talk about engineering away from the job. I guess it’s not a proven way to meet girls so it’s strictly avoided. I thought engineers just solder all day long. After a couple semesters in engineering I realized I could switch to another a school, transfer my credits, and start my GPA over again from scratch. So I did that and graduated with high honors from FDU even though I was only there for 3 semesters and a summer. Henry was the name of the guy in the John Deere hat. He gave me some sage advice.

  60. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [60] toomuch – huddling for warmth often incubates complacency, fear, and inaction. I’m an isolated case, but I was actually driven to get my college degree just to have my own bedroom. Less kids these days, so most have that already at home. No reason to hustle. I think it was February ’84 when I signed the lease on my first place after finishing college in December ’83. I had a hot girlfriend and we were always scrambling for places to sleep together, but I wanted that apartment all to myself. It just felt like victory to close that door and know nobody was coming through it unless I said so. Lots of kids have that at home already, for free. Nothing to work for. To me it was a divine mission that I didn’t accomplish until I was 23 years old and I had my eyes on that prize for years. I’m not talking just my own apartment, I’m saying I never even had my own bedroom, EVER, until I got that apartment and it felt sweet to accomplish it without anybody’s help. Bought my first new car a few months later, one year loan to pay it off. Three weeks later my apartment flooded and I had to move home. That sucked, but I had a sniff of the big time;-)

    I have to say I think for many, staying together for the time being is by far the smartest thing to do.

  61. SRK says:

    61 Expat – Most kids will listen to the same stuff from someone else other than the parents ! Our older one didnt fight, actually he didnt have a clue about what he wanted so he readily went with our suggestion. The second one gave it a good fight and then acquisced and later quietly told us that his science teacher had told him the same thing when he had told her he wanted to major in psychology, apparently she told him ‘go do engg like your brother at bachelors and then do psychology at grad school’.

  62. AG says:

    18,

    Re: Kids,

    Classic empire decline. I dont sell those kids short though. Many of them thumb their nose at materialism that defined the boomers. Instead they embrace liberty. If you could teach people that history is cyclical not linear then society would be a lot better informed. Progress? Stuff it up your _ss.

  63. AG says:

    22,

    Condo,

    Shame that you were unlucky enough to have kids college age at the peak of the higher education bubble. I guess we all get the shaft in one way or another.

  64. AG says:

    38,

    Joyce,

    Dam you speak the truth these days and dead on I might add. The purpose of Keynesian economics was always a fascist, top down control. Communism or fascism doesnt matter. Its the top down control that does.

    History proves that gold is money. The shareholders of the Federal Reserve may not like it because they cant control the tangible. That which they cant control they condemn.

    Everyone that bought physical over the years it going to be rewarded beyond their wildest dreams. Ignore the corrections. I think it was Hoover who stated during the great depression, “During those years capital moved around the world like a loose cannon on the deck of a ship.” Electronic money is the goal of the financiers. The people want gold. Epic battle ahead.

  65. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Does that really count if they do it from their parents’ basement between refrigerator raids, while on data plan bills their parents foot?

    I dont sell those kids short though. Many of them thumb their nose at materialism that defined the boomers.

  66. AG says:

    47,

    Meat,

    That book made me so angry I coudn’t finish it.

    I also suggest “None dare call it a conspiracy”

    Anything written by Larry McDonald is also a gem.

  67. AG says:

    49.

    I look with pity upon todays youth. Not because they are spoiled, fat, or lazy but because they are going to have to do the heavy lifting to fix this mess we created. To that end I will equip my kids to the best of my ability.

  68. SRK says:

    67 Expat, Actually what’s wrong ? As AG says everything always comes in cycles. Our generation was all about independence, getting out, being on own own etc. this one is about being practical. Joint families do share a lot of over-heads, dont they ? Well, if the kids refuse to contribute then that is another thing, but many kids do contribute, of course being super-practical they might not offer on their own :-) but wil definitely give if asked for, and I think many parents (being from our generation) have hang-ups about asking. I agree with AG that they are less materialistic and more liberal……

  69. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [70] SRK – My point was that you can’t “thumb your nose at materialism” while someone else buys you your “material”. On second thought, maybe I was wrong and they can. I guess you can live in somebody’s house and proudly proclaim you’re anti-buying-food, but not anti-eating-food should it happen to show up.

  70. SRK says:

    72 Expat, Awww, ‘somebody’s house’ ? It’s their parents’ house ! If they are participating in running the house with physical, financial and moral support, what is wrong ? I mean, I am not voting for multiple families with 2 kids each in a small cape ! But what is wrong with junior coming back to stay in his old room as long as he is helping out with mowing, shovelling, cooking and sharing expenses ?

  71. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    70 – SRK cont’d. – My mother and uncle had to hand over their entire paycheck to their parents and they were given an allowance, $20 each from their weekly paycheck, even if they got a raise or worked extra hours. This was as adults. This would work great today, too. Aren’t you better at managing money than your kids? Simply take it from them and manage it for them. They’ll be way more prosperous in the long run that way, right? Or keep it for yourselves as my grandparents did. Whoops, my bad. They might take offense and not want to be your friends anymore;-)

  72. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [73] SRK – Your commune, your rules. I’ve got no problem;-)

    If they are participating in running the house with physical, financial and moral support, what is wrong ?

  73. toomuchchange says:

    62 – NJ ExPat –

    “huddling for warmth often incubates complacency, fear, and inaction.”

    Can’t argue that. Can’t argue that your way wasn’t the best way — because I wish things today were still like they were back when you were starting out, but they are not.

    But unfortunately a lot has changed since the 1980s that puts today’s kids and families at a real disadvantage:

    1. Co-signing, co-signing required everywhere, for this things I did not need a co-signer for — and trust me, I never had a high-paying job or anything near it. That would include student loans, credit cards and apartments

    2. Rents and medical costs going up, while job security takes a nosedives and wages stay stagnant or decrease. The phrase “perfect storm” came to mind while typing the last sentence.

    I wonder if the increased “punishment” for financial mistakes or income loss will lead to increased demand for government safety net programs? I would not be at all surprised to see loss avoidance become a major theme and demand from many who have gone through this recession or who saw their parents struggling to survive in the new jungle out there without much help.

    The downside to taking risks has really grown, which in itself will have negative consequences for people in the future. People’s choices are narrowing due to rising costs of housing, keeping a car on the road and higher education. At the same time, their life experiences have narrowed, as many no longer have a paying high school or college summer job. Certainly many dreams won’t be pursued; but what is worse is that many dreams that would have been dreamed won’t be — unless of course, eventually all this fear produces desperation and recklessness instead of caution and conformity, as it mostly has up to now.

  74. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [76] This is spot on and I can’t tell you how much it saddens me. I work with guys who are ridiculously experienced, we have great ideas and in a “normal” world we would be out building businesses, creating jobs, and we’ve all done that before. But we’ve all been out there and it’s a scarier climate now than it’s ever been. We’re all aging tail-end boomers in good financial position but there is this over-riding fear that if we venture out from under the big business umbrella of steady salary and cadillac benefits packages there will be no way back in if we fail. So some very good minds with some very good ideas, and significant capital just sit around in our easy corp jobs and talk about how shitty it is out there. There’s ton of risk available, but where’s the reward?

    Certainly many dreams won’t be pursued; but what is worse is that many dreams that would have been dreamed won’t be — unless of course, eventually all this fear produces desperation and recklessness instead of caution and conformity, as it mostly has up to now.

  75. Libtard at home says:

    Wow…I’m really enjoying this thread, especially the stuff about spoiled kids.

    I grew up in the 70s, the youngest of 7 siblings. Started in a shared room with my two brothers. My parents chose East Brunswick due to the good schools and my dad did OK in his rectifier manufacturing business which afforded us the upper middle class home. Mom was a substitute teacher. We had no allowance. We all worked as kids. From selling greeting cards door to door, to RIF (remember that), to delivering newspapers, starting my own landscaping service (I contracted out jobs to other kids), to the two year stint in Burger King and then K-mart, I was always working. Parents were strict and there simply wasn’t enough to go around to be spoiled. Shoot, my first real bicycle was a hand-me down from a sister with the pink frame and banana seat to boot. A couple things that stuck in my mind. We always waited for dad to come home for dinner, which means our dinner time was dependent on the traffic on the BQE (yeah he commuted to Williamsburg every friggin’ day). The dude left the house at 5:30am like clockwork, and on a good day got home at 6pm. And this guy was actually my step father. The sh1tdad (birth father) left when I was one and a half (he was a spoiled brat btw). Well ultimately I will not spoil my child, as so many of my peers do. It will be tough in Glen Ridge, where I’m sure kids are judged by their clothes, their parents’ cars, etc. But I went through it in East Brunswick and it made me who I am today and has put me in a much better position than nearly all of my college buddies.

    I recall me asking my did for Brittanica Jeans (trust me, they were hot in the late 70’s). He said, if you can tell me why they are better than the Wrangler’s which went for 1/6th the cost, he would get them for me. Same with the Nike’s. So I was stuck with the cheap Pumas. The dude was right and somehow I managed to talk some sense in to a few of my friends who happened to be mature enough to understand it and who I could find solace in.

    I don’t blame the spoiled kids at all. It’s their parents that continue to ruin them. Kids only know what their parents exposed them too. If there’s anything good that will come from the great recession, it’s understanding the true value of hard work and the need to avoid debt at all cost. I am sheepishly looking forward to a time when all of my friends who laugh at my 17-year old car will be driving their own decade-old POS!

    Now go Devils.

  76. Comrade Nom Deplume in The District says:

    [76] tmc,

    I foresee a new New Deal mentality and an increased demand for quasi socialism. However, unlike 80 years ago, the economy is vastly different and capital will be quickly withdrawn. This will result in a new wave of nationalism and protectionism, and there will be a showdown with China.

  77. toomuchchange says:

    So what are your thoughts on the three things and how they will affect us:

    1. Nationalism?
    2. Protectionism?
    3. Showdown with China – plus who wins?

  78. Libtard at home says:

    Come on. Haven’t you seen American Ninja Warrior? Plus we have the Kung Fu Panda. Ain’t no way we lose to the Reds!

  79. toomuchchange says:

    Final thought (I think) for tonight:

    With the various things going on, there’s a lot of people who would have tried their luck here in the New York area but won’t.

    I wonder how many of us wouldn’t be here, if today’s conditions had existed when we came? I myself very much doubt if I would have come unde. Even if the recession were over, the sky-high rens and inability to survive for long if I lost a job would have weighed very, very heavily on my mind.

  80. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [82] My impression of NNJ/NY is that most people are just born there and stay. Sure, a lot of people come to NY to “make it big”, but I think it’s a small percentage. NJ used to have a pretty good infrastructure of upwardly mobile or at least stably employed Dads, stay-at-home Moms, good schools. Kids may have gone away to college, but most somewhere in the Northeast, but then they’d come home to NJ and the next generation would rinse and repeat. Whenever I hear the small town cliche, “I just had find some way to get out of there” it hits me in a weird way. If you grew up in NNJ, with rare exception, nobody really ever thought that way. Except for being the undeserving butt of jokes, NJ had always been a pretty good place to live. My in-laws are considering moving from NJ to MA to be closer to their grand-kids (2 here, 3 in NH). They were up here a couple weeks ago to watch my 8 year old play soccer and my 10 year old perform in her ballet Spring Showcase. The ballet thing was at a Theatre at Babson College in Wellesley (think Short Hills), we had to take two cars. My wife drove them and one daughter in one car and I took my oldest daughter over hours early for rehearsal in the other car. Coming back my wife happened to be behind me as we were nearing home. I cut through some private roads in Chestnut Hill hoping my wife would follow so my in-laws could see the tightly clustered array of $5-$10 million dollar homes across the Reservoir from us. She did follow. When we got home I asked my in-laws if they were interested in making an offer on any of those homes in Chestnut Hill. My MIL said, I think Wellesley might be more to our liking. I replied, “Oh, there might be a problem with that plan. I don’t think they let people from New Jersey purchase in Wellesley.” I was joking, of course, but I wonder how many blue-ribbony BC homeowners stay because they can’t bear being thought of differently in another state. In their mind, “I live in Closter/Alpine/take your pick” means something to themselves, and they hope, others. If you move anywhere out of state, you’re not from BC anymore, you’re from Jersey.

  81. Mike says:

    Expat No. 35 come to think of it after reading that post I haven’t heard the word “spoiled” in years. A neighboring couple I know bought a new swing set, tree house and the dining area (romper room) has a huge rubber floor mat with wall to wall toys on it, and not to mention the custom made toy box which is the size of a coffin. The child is only 3 1/2

  82. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Lib , you will like this one.
    Son 22 his car dies (98 Ford Contour) not even my professional mechanic friends can save it. Now the not so proud driver of 1989 (year he was born) Ford LTD Country Squire Wagon (wood sides!). He is the second owner it has 73k miles on it & is just about mint. By the way loaded every option Ford had that I can see.
    You need me to buy you a car cause you do not save enough ( works P/T goes to school) this is what you get, 50 a week till even it cost 600 bucks!

  83. freedy says:

    http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_jersey/20120603_N_J__legislators_question_value_of_red-light_cameras.html?ref=twitter.com

    Latest scam for the towns in NJ to raise money with the traffic cameras.

    Anybody been caught yet?

  84. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [78] Lib, growing up in the 70’s. I remember commercials for RIF, Reading is Fundamental, right? Was that a paying gig? Cheap Pumas? I think in 1975 I bought my first pair of Puma “All purposes” for around $20 at Dover Ski & Sport, saved up the money from delivering newspapers. They looked like Puma “Joe Namath’s” but were white leather with a teal stripe instead of a green stripe. First kid in my family to wear a pair of sneakers that weren’t canvas and didn’t come from the wire bin at Shop-rite supermarket. I pretty much couldn’t pay attention in class for the next couple weeks, too busy staring down at my feet. I never really paid attention in class anyway. The unfair thing, as far as I was concerned, was that after I bought my first couple pairs of “good” sneakers (Blue Puma Clydes were my next pair), my mom finally saw the utility of buying higher quality and started buying the good stuff for my younger siblings. I lobbied for a bail-out, but it fell on deaf ears.

  85. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [85] Mike, you mean you didn’t go down the dealer and cosign for a brand new Honda? Good job. When I lived in the mid 90’s Nutley I was commuting 120 miles per day to Hauppauge ($11 dollars in tolls too), Long Island and back. I had two cars, a ’77 Chevy Camaro, and an ’89 Chevy tracker. Both were stick shifts and I drove whichever one I felt like, gas was down to .99/gallon. Then I broke my left leg mountain biking. Oh crap, I need an automatic. I bought a neighborhood car. My downstairs neighbor had a ’77 Nova with a straight six he bought from the family two doors down for $300. It was parked now, needed a parking brake cable and tires to pass inspection. He sold it to me for $200, I drove it over to my tire place in Garfield (anybody remember that place, they worked on cars in the street because their garages were full of tires and balancing machines, great prices on BFG T/As?) and put 4 BFG T/As on it. Bought the emergency brake cable, and even with a cast on, changed it myself. Drove it for more than a year, no problems whatsoever. Had vinyl seats, no A/C. I put cabbie beads on the front seats. I used to lend it to a friend of mine because he enjoyed taking his girlfriend out on dates with it. She lived somewhere in the 5 boros and he had a motorcycle and a Fiat, and nobody takes a Fiat to NYC without accepting significant risk. Also, he loved that his girlfriend hated that car and probably being seen in it. He said she would angrily throw the cabbie beads in the passenger seat over the headrest into the back seat before getting in because she hated sitting on them. I swapped the wheels with the good tires onto my girlfriend’s (now wife) ’72 El Camino before selling the Nova to someone else for $1, still running great.

    50 a week till even it cost 600 bucks!

  86. Mike says:

    Miss my 74 Nova , which did have air by the way, the compressor bearing ceased up and caught fire on the way to Washington . Wonder if they still sell those cabbie beads?

  87. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [86] freedy – Red light cams. Ever since the 2008 meltdown, I pay much closer attention to red lights. I figure all municipalities will soon figure out that they’re leaving good money on the table by not catching every violator they can in a non-contestable act. Now, this line from the article is pure BS:

    Opponents say the cameras create more accidents by prompting drivers to slam on their brakes, which leads to rear-end crashes.

    Every driver knows if they’re going to make it easily through on yellow or that it may be close. Now if you’re texting, it may be different story. I find myself driving defensively, some might say offensively, when I see texting drivers and I see it every single day. If someone is texting in front of me, I lay on the horn the instant the car in front of them pulls away if they don’t move. If someone is texting behind me, when stopped I’ll wait a few Mississippi as the cars in front of me pull away. Nobody ever gives me the horn because they don’t notice that the cars have all pulled away. I then go pretty close to full throttle to catch up to traffic which means now they have a huge gap to make up which distracts them from their texting, I would think, maybe not. If there is an impending stop ahead they try to intimidate you by tailgating, because they want to get up there and stopped as fast as possible so they can get back to their texting. Nothing doing, I’ll continue at a slower speed so maybe we don’t get to stop at all as the light has changed by the time we get up to the stopped cars. They really hate that, when they don’t actually get to stop when they want to stop. If they think they’re bad ass and they really tailgate me, then I do the old left foot on the brake just enough to turn the brake lights on while I’m actually nailing the throttle with my right. I was doing this in traffic a few days ago and the driver just turned off into a parking lot…of a closed business. I guess he had some important texting to do.

  88. 3b says:

    #30 tcm: My augter is home for the summer and had 4 job offers in a few days. Same last summer Grant it these are restaurant retail jobs, but they are perfect as HS/Colleger summer jobs. Plus when she sees the old/older people working these jobs it was eye opening for her. It is nice when you kid says Dad you are right,

    In addition I know more than a few college grads, 22-24 years old, who have never worked a day in their lives, in any capacity. After all they are College grades, they are not going to do that kind of work it is beneath them!!!!

    A lot of parents in wannabe towns don’t wnat their kids working in the local supermarket etc, as what will the neighbors think.

  89. I think you can get cabbie beads at Jamesway.

  90. gary says:

    Gee, isn’t it funny that we all had sh1t cars that we worked on ourselves and were just happy to have anything at all. Today? The young muppets will be seen in nothing less than a 3 Series, equipped with docking stations, bells and whistles, tinted, pimped, primed and pumped. Nothing but the best for this sensitive crew.

  91. gary says:

    3B,

    A lot of parents in wannabe towns don’t wnat their kids working in the local supermarket etc, as what will the neighbors think.

    Isn’t that the truth! And you wanna hear something f*cked up? I’m seriously thinking about getting a part time job on top of the bullsh1t contracts I have to gag on for the rest of my working career. Why? Because there’s this little known secret that I found out years ago that the more you work, the more you earn. I shoveled sh1t, ate sh1t at 18, 19, 20 yrs. old, etc, so I have no problem doing it again. Instead of continously staying p1ssed at the state of the job market and this p1ss-poor economy, I decided that I’ll take matters into my own hands. F*cking imagine that!!

  92. 1987 Condo Buyer says:

    Son graduates from Seton Hall Prep today, as I said yesterday, going to NC State. Don’t think anyone else from SHP has gone there (besides an athlete)..guidance had no info on schools outside Metro NY, Boston, Chi, DC. NC State was more competitive even after scholorships from private schools. Goal, getting him out of metro area.

  93. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    There’s speed trap near my home frequently. It’s a long flat stretch of Commonwealth Avenue. City long, not country long, well under a half a mile. No intersections two lanes in each direction divided by the above ground Green line (surface trolley) in between. It’s a 30mph speed limit even though it looks and feels like a stretch of divided highway. I use the cruise control set right at 30mph, never a ticket for me in the last 10 years. The radar trap is a cop standing with a hand-held radar gun right by a gas station. Sometimes he has a partner that works with him writing the tickets. Other times he works alone. When he works alone he pulls one guy over and makes him wait in the gas station for the few minutes it takes him to pull a second guy over, then he writes 2 tickets as other speeders are now temporarily free to speed by. The other day he was pulling a car over, he’s out in the lane pointing at the guy and attempting to make eye contact. The car doesn’t stop in time, hits the cop, takes his legs out from under him, cop onto the hood (big dent in hood), cop rolls to the ground. Luckily the cop will be OK, according to my neighbor who’s a cop for the Sheriff. Driver claimed his brakes failed. I’m waiting to find out if he was texting.

  94. 1987 Condo Buyer says:

    Cars? 1978 Fairmont, I bought in 1981 after tiring of my 2.5 hour (each way) reverse commute from South Shore on Staten Island to Newark, NJ. talk about inflation back then, the car used (3 years) cost more than it was new!

  95. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [91] Mike, Chevy talk. One super cold (like 5 degrees above zero) morning my ’77 Camaro (350 4bbl, factory 4 speed, btw) started squealing like a stuck pig just as I was pulling into a strip mall in Bloomfield. I left the car running and popped the hood. Same thing ceased A/C pulley bearing, turned the car off. I walked into the 7-11 and I saw what I needed, there was a cop there in SWAT gear getting a coffee. He had a very surprised look when I walked up and asked him if he had a knife I could borrow. I told him the situation and he opened a leather compartment somewhere on his body and pulled out a nice looking stainless steel single blade pocket knife and handed it to me. I went outside and cut the A/C belt off the engine and returned the knife.

  96. 3b says:

    #96 gary: We had no problem back in the day of collecting enough money for gas, and then putting in $1.67 worth of gas, if that is all we had!!!

    A lot of the younger people today want to be playa’s, but dont want to do the hard work and discipline that comes with it. And a lot of adults the same thing.

    I just want to know though if there is a Benz 350 or BMW 325 i in the driveway, how come the owners don’t mow the grass?? Just asking,

  97. 3b says:

    Jill: If you are around the house I was interested in in WT on Howard appears to have gone UC,as it is no longer on the MLS. Drove by a listing on Jackson yesterday, too close to Washington Ave, traffic noise.

  98. gary says:

    3b,

    I’m gonna check out a few open houses today. I’m probably going to stick somewhere around the Westwood/Hillsdale/River Vale area. I know open houses are mostly a waste of time but at least it gives me something visual to consider. River Vale has the property sizes I really like but both the price and taxes are gut-wrenching. Usually, it’s just one or the other.

  99. freedy says:

    Gary: Why don’t you ride over to Closter and take a look at the rooms that
    are available. Start with the Basement .

  100. gary says:

    freedy [105],

    I’ll only look at that Closter house if they can assure me that the town is still prestigious with blue ribbon status! ;)

  101. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    My youngest two siblings went to WVU because it was cheaper than Rutgers come the mid-80’s. My wife’s cousin’s kid just finished his first year at Arizona state, I think maybe $12K per year? We need the type of no-brainer economics that existed in my time. If you paid full boat and worked hard enough to graduate Rutgers in 4 years you spent $11-$14K on your entire college education and engineering degree including room and board. Graduate and get a job for $24K-$28K. Twice your investment returned your first year working. No brainer. I used to bust my rear end to make maybe $8K/year by my final year of college. I felt absolutely rich when I got my first job. When I reached $35K I thought I was a 1%er. When I bought my first race car and started competing in SCCA races, my thinking was, “I earn $35K a year. If I can’t afford to race cars, who can?” I *seriously* thought that. It wasn’t until years and years later that I even found out that guys like my FIL were making near 7 figures in the mid 70’s.

    Son graduates from Seton Hall Prep today, as I said yesterday, going to NC State. Don’t think anyone else from SHP has gone there (besides an athlete)..guidance had no info on schools outside Metro NY, Boston, Chi, DC. NC State was more competitive even after scholorships from private schools. Goal, getting him out of metro area.

  102. Shore Guy says:

    http://m.cnbc.com/id/47642499

    Tic, tic for the Euro.

  103. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    There’s a waiting list for Mexicans.

    I just want to know though if there is a Benz 350 or BMW 325 i in the driveway, how come the owners don’t mow the grass?? Just asking,

  104. Mike says:

    Expat LOL! That’s exactly what I did cut the belt. Thank God that belt only ran the AC compressor

  105. gary says:

    Taxes went from 9K in 2010 to 13K in 2011. Why bleed slowly when you can just end it quickly:

    http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/8-Haring-Dr_Old-Tappan_NJ_07675_M62740-99529

  106. 3b says:

    #04 gary I will be open housing too. Hillsdale, WT, and Park Ridge.

  107. Mike says:

    What about the job almost every teenage male did and that was pumping gas. Those jobs are long gone.

  108. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [110] Mike – Yeah, if you don’t want to cut it you have to take them all off to get it off. Power Steering and Alternator had their own belts. I think my ’74 Buick had a 4th belt that ran an air pump which was an emissions device. I think our ’72 Vega only had an alternator belt. No P/S, No A/C.

  109. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I can even remember all the minimum wage steps. In the 70’s and 80’s it was like we were getting raises every year. More money, yay! Buys less, boo!

    $2.35 (I think, the rest I’m sure of)
    $2.50
    $2.65
    $2.90
    $3.10
    $3.25

  110. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Expat 89 “I drove it over to my tire place in Garfield (anybody remember that place, they worked on cars in the street because their garages were full of tires and balancing machines, great prices on BFG T/As?)”
    Yes I do! Turned 17 got an old POS 67 ford Galaxy 500 Dad said “needs tires” off we went to the tire place in Garfield. Same deal he was the bank I payed weekly, gotta love zero interest loans. I can still picture it in my mind like yesterday guys all over the street doing tires funny how some things stick with you & others don’t. And yes the idea of a zero down 199 a month lease (I co-sign) was floated by the wife of course he was in on it “no f**ken way!” not negotiable, end of story.

  111. freedy says:

    you have to be from india to pump gass

  112. freedy says:

    and a member of the patel family

  113. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Mike my other son pumps gas at Q-check while in school, I used to do it at the Exon station on 70th street & Kennedy Blvd in No.Bergen back in 78.

  114. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [116] I just looked for some old receipts from the tire place. I was going to look in a second filing cabinet, when I thought, let me just Google tires garfield:

    Benigno’s Tire X-Change

  115. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Sh*T expat for the life of me never remembered the name even back then just went.
    You keep some records dude.

  116. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    LOL If you go to Google Maps and look at street view for 60 Jewell Street in Garfield it still looks exactly the same at Benigno’s.

  117. Phoenix says:

    Used to be much easier and cheaper to get a car to pass inspection back then. There was no such thing as a “Check Engine” light. Or a $500 sensor. Or $800 catalytic convertor. Any car you buy today under 2k is almost guaranteed to have a check engine light on or have one that is turned off only to come on as you wait in line at the inspection station. Not all kids want a BMW, but even a basic car that will pass inspection costs 4k today. All nostalgia and “kid ageism” aside, the day of the ” I drove a $200.00 car is long gone.

  118. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    They used to treat me great at Benigno’s. When I raced, BFG sponsored me and gave me lots of free tires which was a big damn deal. Because of that I always stayed loyal to BFG and Benigno’s had the best prices on BFG. They would also give me great Buy 3 get 1 free deals and rebate forms to send into BFG for cash back, etc. Only in the last 12 months have I let BFG down. I bought Yokohamas last year for one vehicle and Michelin snows for another.

  119. Mike says:

    Mike 119 your son is fortunate to get one of those jobs. Usually they’re reserved, like Freedy said for family members only

  120. Its like you read my mind! You appear to know so much about this, like you wrote the book in it or something. I think that you could do with some pics to drive the message home a bit, but other than that, this is fantastic blog. An excellent read. I’ll definitely be back.

  121. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [123] Phoenix – It’s not as easy, but if you read above you’ll see that Mike just did it. Not a $200 car, but a $600 car is in the same ball park. And it didn’t take him months to find it either. People nowadays seem to curve-fit the perceived impossibilities to rationalize the behavior they’ve already decided on. You know it’s patently false to state that “Any car you buy today under 2K” will have the CEL turned on or will turn on soon. People make the wrong financial decisions every day because they don’t work the numbers. Depending where you live you might be able to drive all year even with a failed inspection vehicle and the money, if any, you pay in fines would probably still turn out to be less than the $4K car you say is a must. I had an awful 1983 Renault 18i, bought new by my girlfriend and her Mom when I wasn’t looking. In the breakup several years later I ended up with the car. I failed inspection for a cracked windshield on that car. The cost of the windshield was $400 somewhere around the value of the car, but it was still reliable transportation. My solution? I simply scraped off the failed inspection sticker, ran with no sticker for at least a year. In that time I got exactly 1 ticket. It happened on route 515 in Vernon, cop did a U-ey after passing me the other way. He asked me why I didn’t have an inspection sticker and I told him. He gave me a $35 ticket and sent me on my way. He didn’t see a problem with my reasons for peeling of the failed sticker. Then again, it was Vernon. I keeeed, Mike!

  122. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Anybody ever go to Foreign Auto Salvage in Boonton? In the 70’s and 80’s it seemed like I never went too many months without going there looking for Fiat, Audi, Capri, or Renault used parts so as to avoid the abuse the dealer’s would like to bend me over for. It wasn’t until my cousin gave me my ’74 Buick that I realized how cheap and plentiful the parts were for American cars, emphasis on were.

  123. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Phoenix 123 95 & older no computer hook up pass inspection easy. By the way drove my sons car over to my buddies shop left it there picked up 600 dollar ford at my other friends shop on way home with dealer plates I borrowed. Phoenix if you need a 2k beater for a kid just let me know I can hook you up. Check engine lights taken care of before being sold, my friend is a master mechanic the other guys call him with the tough stuff. That being said theses oldies often need things I always figure 4-5 hundred in repairs first 6 months before it is all straight. My son ran that 98 Contour for 2.5 years: $1600 purchase about 4-500 dollars in repairs as I remember (heater fan, 2 tires ,brakes) over that period . And he really beat the sh*t out of it.

  124. Jill says:

    3b #102: I’ll take a look tomorrow and see if there’s an UC sign.

    You’re right about Jackson Ave, plus a lot of people turn off there after getting off the Parkway.

    There was an open house on Mountain Ave. that I wanted to go to yesterday if I’d known it was on. The house is reduced to $425, but I suspect it will have to go down to $385 before it sells. The only reason I want to look is because the kitchen is laid out like mine and it’s been re-done, so I want to take a look at it.

    There is a house on Calvin you might want to look at. It needs updating and the kitchen is heinous….it’s listed at $369 but nothing much seems to be happening:

    http://www.trulia.com/property/3081912586-Single-Family-Home-Washington-Township-NJ-07676

    Maybe $325k???

    Gary #104: WT has relatively low taxes for BC.

  125. Mikeinwaiting says:

    P.S. folks I practice what I preach, I drive 95 Chevy Astro Van like Lib just don’t see the point in getting something new. Remember 95 OK 96 & up inspection problems.
    Full disclosure my wife has a 2010, gotta have one nice one for occasions, more is neither necessary or desirable IMHO.

  126. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Expat 128 I shop at Newton Auto Salvage and American parts are still cheap there.

  127. Feh. In the coming days, the only vehicle of any real utility will be a Bradley.

  128. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    We’ve been buying new the last several cars. We are so loose with our money we buy a new car every 10 years whether we need one or not. We have a 2002 and a 2011. We actually bought the 2011 with hopes of putting less miles on the 2002 so that it lasts longer and also to not have a gun to our head to buy a car if the 2002 suddenly went.

  129. Mikeinwaiting says:

    3b & Gary are out looking at houses today , pity the house sitter who tries to give them some bullsh*t sales line. Just want to be a fly on the wall for that.

  130. “Greece has hit the wall and its financial engine lies in tatters. Spain has hit the wall and just not made the announcement yet. Portugal has hit the wall and will bang it again for good measure. Ireland has hit the wall and is bathing in its national self-pity. Germany is staring at the wall, declared “no Eurobonds under any circumstances” over the weekend while Monti says Eurobonds “will come” and so we are about to have a re-do of the Battle of Verdun. France is warming up to the wall and wants to spend even more to climb the damn thing. America is in self-denial that there is any wall at all. China is about to hit the wall and is adjusting its parachute.

    Treasuries are the needle on the speedometer and if there is one clear indication of very serious trouble ahead you can read it there.

    The fat lady is about to sing. If you don’t wish to listen then don’t show up later and say I didn’t warn you.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/fat-lady-clearing-her-throat

  131. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I don’t know if this still works, but I knew some guys who bought a sports car every year and sold it for a profit less than 6 months later. I used to be pretty big time into Mazda Miatas, but there were people crazier than me. There were people who had at loved their Miatas so much that they wanted to drive one year round, but not their good one(s). The Miata is RWD, but it has perfect 50/50 weight distribution so it’s still a good winter performer with the right tires. The guys who liked to drive them all winter would do this: Buy a cheap beater Miata in November when nobody wants to buy a convertible sports car, put your hardtop and snow tires on the car, which they already owned (so they loved buying ones with yellowed and cracked rear windows, because the top was just going to stay down all winter anyway), put the original wheels back on and take the hardtop off in the Spring and sell it on a warm sunny day for a $200-$500 profit.

  132. chicagofinance says:

    No more NJ Inspection…..only an emissions test now….check engine is an issue only to the extent it impacts exhaust system…. (e.g., oxygen sensor or else catalytic converter). However the light itself can be illuminated and you can still pass……

    Phoenix says:
    June 3, 2012 at 11:19 am
    Used to be much easier and cheaper to get a car to pass inspection back then. There was no such thing as a “Check Engine” light. Or a $500 sensor. Or $800 catalytic convertor. Any car you buy today under 2k is almost guaranteed to have a check engine light on or have one that is turned off only to come on as you wait in line at the inspection station. Not all kids want a BMW, but even a basic car that will pass inspection costs 4k today. All nostalgia and “kid ageism” aside, the day of the ” I drove a $200.00 car is long gone.

  133. chicagofinance says:

    Should I be embarassed?

    My cars…..
    1986 Honda bought in 1993 w/94,000…dies with 228,000 miles
    1995 Honda bought in 1999 w/36,000…stolen in 2001 in Hoboken
    1995 Honda bought in 2001 w/66,000….three weeks later two trucks take me out to the woodshed on I-78
    1997 Nissan bought in 2001 & brought to junkyard in Matawan in 2009
    1999 Audi bought in 2002….been using full time since 2009

  134. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    My wife, girlfriend then, and I *almost* made it through the entire decade of the 90’s without actually buying a 1990’s car. That was seriously our goal, that we would never own a 1990’s car and make it to 2000 driving our ’80’s cars. But then our ’89 oil-burning, rusted floored, Chevy Tracker dropped or badly burned a valve, zero compression in one of the cylinders (It actually still drove, somehow I got $1800 in a trade in, it looked good and drove like it just needed a tune up). Also GM was having one of those $5,000 off of any car deals. Between the trade (which basically covered tax, title, dealer prep, reg, etc.) and the $5K off we bought a left over ’99 Chevy Tracker for $13K, $5K less than the list price of $18K in late ’99. In 2002 when an F150 pulled out of a parking lot without looking and head-onned my wife, we got $13K from insurance, what we paid, 3 years earlier. We also got another $10K settlement from the truck driver’s company a few years later. Add the $13K to the $10K makes $23K which is almost exactly what we paid cash for our replacement 2002 car which we still have today. So that nets out to $13K we paid in 1998 has kept us in new cars for the last 14 years.

  135. Gail Melaro says:

    Good post and right to the point. I am not sure if this is truly the best place to ask but do you folks have any ideea where to hire some professional writers? Thx :)

  136. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    should have read $13K we paid in 1999, not 1998 ^^^^^^^^

  137. joyce says:

    (92)

    Expat,

    driving while texting… we already have laws regarding careless/reckless driving, what does it matter the reason they were driving carelessly? People should be cited when and only when they are clearly a danger to others.

    texting, calling, ipod, radio, cd, makeup, eating, drinking, smoking, something fell, adjusting GPS… do we need a law restricting all of these activities?

    In my opinion, we do not need to govern for the least common denominator. It’s the difference between freedom and personal responsibility vs a nanny/police state.

  138. Firestormik says:

    RE: freedy, 86
    The article is not entirely correct in terms of list of places. Route 18 in East Brunswick is fully inforced by red light cameras. Piscataway recently put a bunch of them as well. Got a ticket making right there

  139. joyce (143)-

    The goal of the state is to turn us all into the least common denominator.

    “In my opinion, we do not need to govern for the least common denominator. It’s the difference between freedom and personal responsibility vs a nanny/police state.”

  140. joyce says:

    Debt (Meat?)

    You’re correct and I agree. (I’m not saying I’m smarter than anyone here or elsewhere)… but it pains when people who complain, rightfully so, about govt intrusion in one place openly welcome it in others.

  141. gary says:

    Jill [130],

    Yes, lower taxes in WT, I’m aware. I just got back from a looking at a few open houses in River Vale and Park Ridge. River Vale is a killer with taxes. I love the property sizes but taxes are nuts there. My price range was somewhere in the 500K to 600K range but believe it or not, I just got back from seeing this one house in Park Ridge listed in the mid 400s that was a wreck but was on a half acre. The property is great and I’m actually thinking about tossing a lowball. It needs A LOT of work. I’m trying not to get buyer’s fatigue.

  142. gary says:

    Mikeinwaiting [135],

    I was at an open house today in River Vale; two other couples were there touring the house while we were there. The realtor was a little high brow and pithy. She asked me, “Are you from the area? Where are you coming from?” So, I said, loud enough for everyone to hear, “Jersey City, G0d’s Country!” LOL! I wonder if my money is green enough for her! :)

  143. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Gary 147
    Good one of course you can’t get the full effect being Caucasian. “Gods Country” I can safely assume that was a show stopper. Just keep messing with them makes house hunting so much more fun.

  144. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Joyce 145
    Made that point to a group of college age kids at a class I was taking last year
    didn’t even get past there ears. Complaining about gov. intrusion in one breath and calling them out for not preventing something in the next. It was back to back I kid you not they could not even perceive the logic when I brought this to their attention. With freedom comes risk the less risk you have the less freedom you have. Blank stares, no challenge no debate no brains……………… By the way this group will be assisting in your next operation.

  145. Mikeinwaiting says:

    there=their oops!

  146. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [143] joyce –

    texting – yes
    calling – hands-free, eyes-free, no
    ipod – new shuffle – no, all other, yes (The shuffle can be navigated through feel and sound, no screen, no need to look away).
    eating – meh.
    drinking – no
    smoking – meh.
    something fell – well I guess it’s more important to take care of that than anyone else’s life is worth – I’ll assume you want to retract that one because that’s just batshit insane.
    adjusting GPS – I don’t have one, but I believe factory installs don’t allow you to adjust while moving. A friend who just bought a Kia Sorrento last year was not allowed by his car set up his bluetooth while moving.

    The CDC or AMA will shortly, I’m confident, classify excessive texting as an addictive disorder. If you do it, you intellectually know that it endangers yourself and others, but you just can’t not do it. That’s textbook addiction. I’m pretty sure you won’t be able to do it at work soon, too. The cash register workers at our cafeteria are doing it even while people line up to pay for their food. They like you, I assume, just take texting anywhere, any time, as a right. It’s an addiction. What are your views on texting while crossing the street as a pedestrian? Or should they only text while they’re driving, because it’s safer…for them. Don’t know if you have kids, but do what I say, not what I do still not a compelling success story.

    texting, calling, ipod, radio, cd, makeup, eating, drinking, smoking, something fell, adjusting GPS… do we need a law restricting all of these activities?

  147. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I forgot a few on your list, sorry:
    radio – meh.
    cd – meh.
    makeup – yes

    You left out newspaper. I used to see that in Boston traffic when we first moved here.

    Keep your eyes on the road – bad for the new Millennium?

  148. Lobotomies by the lobotomized.

    “By the way this group will be assisting in your next operation.”

  149. seif says:

    another under contract in The Fly!

    Est Cls Dt: 7/15/2012 UCD: 6/2/2012 DOM: 52

  150. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I think first offense for texting while driving, no bodily injury involved:

    1st offense: Must drive 4 cylinder car with no power steering, no power brakes, standard transmission.

    2nd offense: All of the above plus AM radio only with 5 push button presets.

    3rd offense: All of the above plus no cup holders. Vinyl seats at judge’s discretion.

  151. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    4th offense: manual choke and bias ply tires.

  152. Neanderthal Economist says:

    Updated prediction charts…

    http://tinyurl.com/7oj67js

  153. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Clot 153 LOL

  154. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Veto 158 was going to ask you to post that the other day. Let use see how the Europeans handle things next few weeks not looking good for my call (MIW) by years end.

  155. Mikeinwaiting says:

    157 Clot , rolling on that one!

  156. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Veto how did inspection go? I’m on for tomorrow.

  157. joyce says:

    149

    Mikeinwaiting… terrifying

  158. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    June 2nd,
    Surrounded by family members of those killed by drivers distracted by cellphones, Gov. John Kasich yesterday made Ohio the 39th state to ban texting while driving. NJReReport.com contributor “Joyce” stood in protest with a sign stating “Government Intrusion, Stop it or Don’t!”. When asked about her sign, Joyce stated, “Texting doesn’t kill people, cars do.”

    http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/06/02/ohio-outlaws-texting-while-driving.html

  159. joyce says:

    (151)
    Expat

    I’m going to try to respond completely, but I have to admit that I think you were a little all over the place so forgive me if my answer is as well.

    So, we should have laws against texting while driving, calling from certain types of cell phones, using certain types of iPods, applying makeup, using certain types of GPS devices, and for reaching around for an object that has fallen… but not for eating, drinking, smoking, radio, or CD (even though you have to take at least one hand off the wheel and avert your eyes temporarily). Where is the consistency?

    Can any one of those examples (and many more) potentially cause someone to lose focus while driving? If someone drives recklessly because they were reaching for the cigarette they just dropped and causes an accident, what is the difference between that and someone driving reckless due to texting?

    I’m not sure why you considered the example of something falling and someone attempting to pick it up while driving, batsh*t crazy. Have we all not done that? If it’s in plain sight, I will grab it in less than a second. If it’s under my seat out of reach, I’ll leave it there until I stop. Big deal?

    “…texting anytime anywhere as a right?” I’m not sure how to respond to that. Besides while driving, where should I not be allowed to text? I use my cell phone sparingly at work; there aren’t any policies against it. Of course, it will be on silent during meetings and such (though that doesn’t stop the higher-ups from using their Bb’s while supposedly listening to the presentation/conf call). If my job said I couldn’t use it, then I guess I couldn’t. My friends job recently banned smoking (they used to have a few tiny outdoor spots dedicated as smoking areas… but no more).

    Someone wants to use their cell phone while crossing the street… umm, ok, have at it. Your problem with that is? You act like using the cell phone is the only distraction possible. Countless times, I’ve crossed city streets with a group of friends while having a conversation with one, only to have another say, ‘heads up.’ You can’t fix stupid, and I was being stupid in that example by not fully paying attention. That should be criminal?

    “something fell – well I guess it’s more important to take care of that than anyone else’s life is worth – I’ll assume you want to retract that one because that’s just batshit insane.”
    To reiterate again, if this happened with me driving and no one was hurt but something damaged, I would be charged with reckless driving. If someone gets rear-ended and the vicitm has back/neck pain, the driver isn’t charged with attempted manslaughter or anything… just reckless driving. Are you not OK with that?

    You said “keep your eyes on the road” … Outlawing cell phones and automobiles will solve all of these ‘problems. I’m being facetious of course. What about the people who without phones, newspapers, sandwiches still suck at driving… what do we do about these people? Lock them up?

    Lastly, regarding the CDC or AMA … they have a disorder, illness, or addiction for EVERYTHING. And Pharma has a nice little pill for each of those things. What did the world’s kids do before the wonder drug of ritalin?

  160. joyce says:

    (164)

    Expat,

    Do guns kill people or does a human being pull the trigger?

    We should outlaw any and all forms of guns, correct?

  161. joyce says:

    I think HFCS and other GMO frankenfoods are an abombination. Yet, I oppose @ss-clown Bloomberg and his proposed soda ban (on large beverages). Not to mention the law is functionally retarded and can’t work.

  162. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [165] joyce – you’re right. I changed my mind. thanks.

  163. joyce says:

    Did NJ ever pass that law requiring provisional drivers to place a special sticker on their cars? Was that really for ‘safety’ or so police officers could more readily identify those breaking the state driving curfew and other rules imposed on provisional drivers?

  164. joyce says:

    168

    OK?

  165. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [165] joyce – and you were extra specially right here:

    So, we should have laws against texting while driving

    Thanks again for coming around.

  166. joyce says:

    Expat, from your article:
    “Homstad, of Johnstown, was killed while on leave from the Air Force in August 2010. He was a passenger in a car driven by a 19-year-old woman who prosecutors argued was texting — though a judge said that was not proved.”

    who cares! doesn’t matter!

    What matters is the person was distracted by something.

    “But Senate Republicans refused. Some were concerned about infringing on personal freedoms, trying to legislate common sense and passing a law that is very difficult to enforce.” (I’m no republican)

  167. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    My wife’s making chili tonight. Yum.

  168. cobbler says:

    joyce [169]
    The writers of the law (about stickers) certainly intended to have the car of a new driver noticeable in traffic; I, actually, keep more of a distance when such auto is in front of me on the road and am more cautious when passing it. Bad a$$ cops undoubtedly use it to harass the kids, which they did before the law, anyway. On the curfew – as the stickers are Velcro-based, kids are peeling them off when driving late at night.

    On texting while driving, I’d agree to allow it for solo drivers of the vehicles of less than 1,200 lbs – if they insist so; also, they should unbuckle and disable the airbags. OTOH, if one is caught driving anything heavier than 2 tons it should be a lengthy suspension, not a slap on the wrist – and mandatory jail term in case of an accident.

  169. SRK says:

    I visited a showing today for a short sale. Owner is really bitter and would really really like not to sell, and listing agent is really exhausted since the house went under contract twice and buyers walked away from fatigue, and she has the most unmotivated seller. It is a cute cape, but no back-yard, no basement (my husband wants both) but location is really cool, close to park and main road.

    New rules that bank has to respond within 2 months looks like a good reason to give it a try. But it will keep me tied for 2 months when I cant make offer on any other house, which should be OK since asking prices are ridiculous, and so even if something I like comes up, it will either sell at a price unacceptable to me or will sit in the market for a few months and in that case may be I can give it a try if and when this deal falls thru.

    My 4-month lease extension will be up this month and will automatically bump to full year until March 31st. So I am going to sit back for now. I am taking the advice of someone here who said that pricing is more important than financing, and have decided not to go mad about losing these historically low interest rates and pay higher price for a house as a consequence. Also I guess if one has plans to keep prepaying principle as much as they can, price should count more than interest rates.

    Is my thinking alright ?

  170. joyce says:

    174
    Cobbler re: sticker
    I honestly haven’t noticed any red stickers, but maybe I will now that I know what I’m looking for. I hope a young-ish looking person, driving late, with red stickers doesn’t equal probable cause for a stop… but cops can just say (make up) about any reason why they stopped someone anyone now can they.

  171. Fabius Maximus says:

    In all this talk about cars and no one brings up leasing?

    I have friends who put it mildly, underwater in life. She gave up tenure to have a 3rd knowing hubby was most likely getting laid off. He was and although he did find another job, it was 1/3rd less money. He supplements with plowing, and I’m sure the lack of snow this year really hurt them.

    Anyway, they show up in an new minivan. people were suprised, but the story did come out. The lease was up on their Ford Explorer. They needed something but couldn’t afford to buy anything outright or even heavily used. I don’t know if they tried a straight auto loan, but their answer, was to roll the Explorer into a no money down new lease on the minivan. Not much change in their monthly nut but they don’t have to pony up 4 figures.

  172. SRK says:

    contd from 175….I am not going to offer a discounted price because it is a short sale, I am strictly going by comps and offering a comparable market price…..

  173. Fabius Maximus says:

    RE: “Gods Country”.

    I was standing in a PA Walmart last week (long story). Two people in front of me talking about the economy and house prices in general. One guy really wanted to retire and move out of town and just keep the rental propery his girlfriend got in the divorce. They didn’t want to sell as it was rented and the market was down. When asked where he wanted to move to he mumbled some county name. The other guy said “Oh, Gods Country!” The guy said “Yeah, but the prices are still too high and rising up there since they got the gas drilling!”

  174. Fabius Maximus says:

    Will CC throw some funds at this to make it happen?

    For me, I think I give this race a 40% chance of starting. They say they will engineer a course by 2013. I have watched the construction on the Gowanas for the past 10 years.

    http://www.sportinglife.com/formula1/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=formula1/12/05/30/AUTO_America.html&BID=669

  175. Mikeinwaiting says:

    SRK Yes, you are thinking right.
    Doing a short also but my sellers are very nice. ( her mom took my mom for tour arm in arm.) Moving out of state Aug 15 hell or high water to have kid in school. I am sure they are upset about house but are real good about it. Sad story retired mom & dad helping out sick daughter, they treat use like we are getting them off the hook. Nice people , immaculate house don’t even need a paint brush, turn key. I guess I got lucky in that respect , now if the bank is reasonable all will be well. Inspection tomorrow!

  176. SRK says:

    182 Mike, Sounds good for you, I hope inspection, bank approval and everything goes well. And good luck to your sellers also with their daughter. In our case today was the first time we were meeting/talking to the listing agent, and what I pieced together was mother-daughter bought house together in 2006 at peak price, daughter wants out now, she is using the same LA as her BA to buy her house (in the 400k range I think from what I overheard them talking), daughter was actually quite happy to see us, mom walked out of the house p..d, jumped into her SUV and drove off, dad was also walking around p..d. Mom and dad apparently want to live in this house very badly but they cant manage the mortgage by themselves. But house is very well maintained. It looks like home was sold bottom-dirt-cheap in 1998, means must have been in ruins then, and that owner must have redone everything and sold to current owners. So upgrades arent brand new, they look at least 10 years old and the time-frame adds up with previous sale, but the home is well maintained over all.

  177. Jill says:

    SRK #175: As someone who bought in 1996 and refused to pay more than we wanted to even though mortgage companies were begging us to take out a mortgage for $70K more than our top limit, I feel qualified to answer this question. Interest rates can always change, but price is forever. We started at 8.5% and refinanced down to 6.53%, then 5.75%, then 4.75%.

    Right now we have about 7 years and $90K left on the mortgage (never took equity loans, any updates have waited till we could afford them) and Wells Fargo is offering a 15-year 3-step refi @ 2.875%. There are no “closing costs”, but they do tack on about $1500 to the amount financed (less savvy people might not check this). I’m a bit leery because it is Wells Fargo and it is a 15 year, and while I don’t want to extend the length of the mortgage, I’m concerned that they will add prepayment penalties in midstream. (My plan would be to make the same payment as now and pay it off in slightly less than 7 years.) I’ve never had a problem with Wells Fargo, but their recent history shows them to be not always trustworthy and contracts don’t seem to mean anything to them, especially once they realize what it is I’m doing (dropping interest rate for same payoff time as now). The sole reason TO do this would be flexibility in case of financial difficulty.

    Anyway, rates are so low now that it doesn’t much matter. Buy only what you could afford in the event that someone loses a job.

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