Obama: Congress standing in the way of the housing recovery

From the Hill:

Obama calls on Congress to pass refinancing bill

President Obama urged Congress on Saturday to pass a refinancing bill to provide a boost to the gradually recovering housing market.

In his weekly address, the president argued that the 2008 financial crisis, created largely by the collapse of a housing market overloaded with bad mortgages, hurt millions of responsible homeowners and could use some more help.

“Millions of Americans who did the right and responsible thing — who shopped for a home, secured a mortgage they could afford, and made their payments on time — were badly hurt by the irresponsible actions of others,” Obama said.

“The truth is, it’s going to take a while for our housing market to fully recover,” he said.

“But it’s going to take a lot more time – and cause a lot more hurt – if Congress keeps standing in the way.”

Even though the Obama administration has taken steps to help hundreds of thousands of homeowners refinance their mortgages, more action is needed to not only help the housing sector but the bolster the overall economy.

“But we need Congress’s help to do more,” he said.

Obama touted the plan he sent Congress in February that would save homeowners about $3,000 a year on their mortgages. The plan includes other “aggressive steps” to help the ailing housing sector, including providing homeowners with a chance to refinance into lower-interest-rate mortgages.

“It’s a plan that has the support of independent, nonpartisan economists and leaders across the housing industry,” he said.

“But Republicans in Congress worked to keep it from even getting to a vote. And here we are — seven months later — still waiting on Congress to act.

“This makes no sense.” he said.

“When folks are spending less on mortgage payments, they’re spending more at local businesses,” Obama said.

“And when those businesses have more customers, they start hiring more workers.”

The Senate intends to take up the measure first thing on their return in November.

This entry was posted in Economics, Housing Recovery, Politics. Bookmark the permalink.

167 Responses to Obama: Congress standing in the way of the housing recovery

  1. grim says:

    From HousingWire:

    QE3 to elevate stock market, home prices: Deutsche Bank

    The third round of quantitative easing will raise the stock market by 3.1% and home prices by nearly 2%, assuming the program lasts through 2013, researchers at Deutsche Bank assert.

    But not everyone agrees that the move with translate to helping the average American.

    The Federal Reserve’s purchases of Treasuries and mortgage-backed securities will sum to $800 billion by the end of the year. The researchers say the purchases will hold longer-term Treasury yields about 50 basis points lower than they would otherwise.

    “These financial market effects should eventually be passed through to more than a 0.6% boost to the level of gross domestic product over the next two years, enough to add about 500,000 jobs and reduce the unemployment rate by 0.3% points,” Deutsche Bank said in a research note.

  2. grim says:

    Rolling down the street in my six four, jocking the b!tches, slappin the hoes. Went to the park to get the scoop, knuckleheads out there cold shootin some hoops.

    From TMZ:

    Bank Forecloses On Infamous Party Mansion

    Straight outta Calabasas … the mansion rapper Eazy-E used to call his “Playhouse” was foreclosed on earlier this year — and TMZ has learned it was all because his widow allegedly stopped making payments on the home.

    The late rapper’s crib was famous back in the early 90’s for crazy, all-night parties — as well as an open door policy for entourage members and hoards of women.

    When the N.W.A rapper died in 1995, the digs passed to his wife Tomica Wright. But according to official records, which just became available, she fell behind on the mortgage payments in 2011… to the tune of $168,278.78.

    Unable to come up with the cash … the 5-bedroom, 6-bath house was sold at a foreclosure auction in May for $2.2 million.

  3. Ernest Money says:

    Eazy-E takes it no Vas.

  4. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  5. grim says:

    Any advice on flooring for finishing basement? We are considering carpet or this new floating vinyl called traffic master allure plank (it looks like wood or tile and sticks to other pieces of vinyl, does not stick to floor). Its going to be a play room for the kids. Carpet is softer and safer but we can always throw a rug over the vinyl. The vinyl is great with moisture as it is almost completely water proof and it extremely durable, the guy from home depot was scraping his keys across the demo to show us its scratch resistant. They both cost the same, roughly. What else should we consider? Thanks,

    Mike – You gave me a sub-grade engineered flooring name a few months back. I know I’ve got it written down somewhere, but you can probably remember it faster than I can dig it out of my notebook.

  6. grim says:

    Speaking of basements… I wonder if you can lay down that new Dri-Core basement subflooring, leaving a slight space at any of the walls, and install a small radon-style fan to pull a slight vacuum in the gap created under the Dri-core, and exhaust that outside. Not enough to cause any kind of real heat loss issues, but just enough to keep the concrete breathing and to take that moisture at the slab and send it outside.

    Would probably be much more effective in keeping the basement nice and dry than having to run any kind of dehumidifier.

  7. Neanderthal Economist says:

    Jill thanks from yesterday. Quick question, why would you want to glue carpet down? I thought everyone just used the tack board along perimeter?

  8. Shore Guy says:

    Congress and Adam Smith.

  9. Neanderthal Economist says:

    Grim I also hear that all vinyl emits toxins which is worse for basements since it doesn’t get as much fresh air. Not sure if its enough to matter much, or if carpet emits the same amounts?

  10. Grim says:

    Seems tough to beat tile as the smart choice, the biggest downside is really just cold feet.

    Spills, leaky HWH, burst washer hose, floods, all no problem. Heck, it even allows for breathability of the slab.

  11. Neanderthal Economist says:

    Everyone who knows what they’re talking about keeps saying tile but for some reason I keep fighting it because I can’t picture it but I’ll take another look thanks. Also some of the stained and glossy concrete is incredibly impressive but its hard to find someone who does it a lot and can give a quote.

  12. J La says:

    Re 97 NJ Coast, last thread; a “Cutter” is Fair Lawn’s mascot, as in Cutter ship. (Sub)urban legend has it that at one point members of a championship football team “cut” so many classes that season they were at risk of losing a chance at the title, hence they were referred to as the Cutters by other teams in the league, which back then was the NNJIL. The actual Cutter ship symbol derived as a way to add some credibility to the nickname.

  13. Grim says:

    Gartman on Bloomberg, says he sees almost no risk of stagflation ( I think he said 5% ).

  14. Grim says:

    As neat as dri-core is, if you spill or flood, it’s garbage, as well as the floor on top of it.

  15. Grim says:

    Wood-look plank tile is hot right now, lots of choices, but it ain’t cheap.

  16. Neanderthal Economist says:

    Interesting. That new floating vinyl traffic master allure plank is 100% submersible. Allegedly.

  17. Painhrtz - Awaiting Clot's Apocalypse! says:

    grim tjernlund basement fan installing one in my basement in the spring before the humidity picks up

    http://www.tjernlund.com/xchanger_basement_fan.htm

  18. Grim says:

    Is that just a fan? Take a look at some of the ERV/HRV units. For a couple of more bucks you can squeeze in some additional efficiency.

  19. Painhrtz - Awaiting Clot's Apocalypse! says:

    Grim just a fan with a humidistat. have two buddise who had wet basements put those ridiculouos things in and they are all dry. If I had not seen it myself grim I would have not believed it.

  20. Jim says:

    Painhrtz,
    What do those things cost? I’m also dealing with a wet basement right now. The basement here in south jersey is pretty old so it seems that would get rid of the musty type smell also.
    Thanks,
    Jim

  21. chicagofinance says:

    To comment on the lead article…….

    OK – you read these threads and you see what O-man is saying…..now extrapolate those comments across everything else his Administration is saying and you have a prima facie case why the guy is a bullsh!t artist of the highest order. All politicians are scumbags – agreed…..but not all of them ran on a platform of hope and change, and being a Washington outsider………extrapolate across – education loans, unemployment, entitlement spending….do you comprehend what a lying prick this guy is? I reiterate, there is no stump here for the Other Guy (and I use the term Guy loosely, as clot correctly points out, there is question regarding his status as a human).

  22. grim says:

    22- HRV? Probably under a grand if you DIY, maybe closer to $1500 if you contract. While they might help, they won’t fix big problems.

    For damp basements, you may need to exchange huge amounts of air to make an appreciable dent in the humidity. The challenge with any kind of air exchange approach is that the humidity might be just as high, if not higher, outside. When it’s 95 outside and approaching 100% humidity outside, you don’t want that air in your basement. It’s heavy with water, and when you bring it in, and inevitably cool it, you’ll push the humidity even higher, and in the worst cases actually see condensation (look at your cold water pipes).

    They work great in the fall or winter, when you’ve got a nice cool, crisp day. You can make a huge impact on indoor humidity levels by exchanging a small amount of air. Now, if your basement is really humid, you run into an issue. You’ll need to bring in so much outside air that you’ll freeze out your basement, so now you need to blast the heat. And the catch 22 is that as soon as the air is warm (and re-humidified by the water vapor pushing out of the concrete), you are going to send it right back outside in exchange for freezing cold air. Basically the equivalent of leaving the basement window open in the fall and winter.

    Most of these units should probably be paired up with a mini-split AC unit that includes a higher-efficiency dehumidifier, this will give you coverage during the more humid months.

  23. grim says:

    The reason these units rely on humidistats (they should really use two humidistats, one inside and one outside), is that they try to exchange air only when most beneficial to do so. While we’re still at the whim of the weather, we can at least attempt to shut the system down when it’s counterproductive to run.

  24. Fast Eddie says:

    Chavez says he would vote for Oblama; says Oblama would do the same for him. Birds of a feather…

  25. Libtard at home says:

    On the basement tip. Make sure there is no water when laying tile if going that route. Grout will crack otherwise. Cement is really the best, but if you must go carpeting, just go with the cheapest thinnest glue down squares you can buy. If you get water (either from bad foundation or from bad appliance) just replace the tiles and move on. It’s a basement. No one really spends much time down there and kids can handle a hard floor. If they are toddlers, just put down those foam letter tiles until they turn four years old, or buy cheap click (.75 per square foot) and prepare to rip it up when the kids get a bit older or when the first leak occurs.

  26. grim says:

    Rutgers does a better job explaining it than I do:

    http://www.co.hunterdon.nj.us/health/FLOODING/ventilate_basement.pdf

  27. 3B Buying says:

    #15 I disagree with Mr. Gartman.

  28. Juice Box says:

    Gartman also said structural changes instead of cyclical. All I want to know is will these structural changes best case be like Japan or Zimbabwe?

  29. Ragnar says:

    Chifi,
    Re the lead article. I don’t understand what O says is the problem. The people bought a sensible house, with a mortgage they can afford. Why exactly is he saying the government needs to help them? Because everybody gets a present from Santa Obama?

  30. Libtard in the City says:

    “Why exactly is he saying the government needs to help them? Because everybody gets a present from Santa Obama?”

    I would think that by this point, nearly everyone who bought in the 2003 to 2009 time period either has defaulted already and it’s too late to assist them, or if they’ve been able to make payments up to this point, then they should be able to refinance through the other programs or should just jingle-mail it, which they should have done years ago. Who the heck is the government still helping at this point?

  31. 3B Buying says:

    #30 Juice: Mr Gartman does not see stagflation based on what? Bernank says rates will stay low now at least until the middle of 2015, so no growth. And prices are rising, much as the government says otherwise.

    So if we are to believe Mr. Gartman and no stagflation, then what should we call this environment from now until mid 2015? Goldilocks?? (as Mr. Kudlow used to say)

  32. grim says:

    It’s a basement. No one really spends much time down there and kids can handle a hard floor.

    Depends on the house, I’ve seen some done very well and add good usable space. I’ve seen others that were a complete waste. Of course, it really depends on the house layout. If we’re talking about a early colonial/four square with under 1k sq ft per floor, yeah, you’ll have only one egress and usefullness is really questionable. The best were always larger sprawling homes with walk-outs or partial walk outs. Even better is partial sub-grade basements with usable windows.

    Makes sense for me, since I’ve got around 1200 square feet of finishable space, reasonable ceilings (7 1/2 foot when finished) and 3 access points(side door, stairs down from the main level, and the garages from the other side. Windows could be better, but I can’t help that one. While I do have the main beam traversing the basement, we’ve already moved all of the plumbing and electrical off the ceiling so we’re not going to need to deal with bulkheads or other silliness. With the main waste line in/sub slab, adding a bath is an easy endeavour.

  33. Shore Guy says:

    “Who the heck is the government still helping at this point?”

    Democratic politicians seeking reelection.

  34. Juice Box says:

    re #33 – 3B – with stagflation interest rates rise and bonds tank. Gartman is perhaps saying the Fed won’t raise rates, and we will see ZIRP for much longer than anyone expects. If this is the case which I tend to believe then technically we are not in a stagflation.

  35. Libtard in the City says:

    Grim,

    I really can’t argue with you about the usefulness of finished basements, but to this day, I’ve personally never seen any adults (besides JJ who might still live in his parents house) spend much time in one besides an occasional poker game.

  36. Painhrtz - Awaiting Clot's Apocalypse! says:

    Grim and their in lies some of the issues when dealing with moisture. If you are using interior air for the exchange you are fine once you start using outside air you are a slave to RH. which was never my intent

    Since I do not have duct work in the basement I have to go a route that will be enrgy efficient and use internal air for the exchange. Was thinking of finding a way to get it to my returns on the second level (Damn split) and forgo the outside air. We are already thing of putting a louvered door to the basement because my furnace heats the whole basement when operating and we wanted to take advantage of that heat exchange for the lower level. If it were up to me there would just be duct work with returns down there because moisture is only really an issue during the summer.

    jim they are about 200 bucks. you probaly could rig up a similar system for less if you are handy and not afraid of electrical work.

  37. 3B Buying says:

    #36 Juice: OK.I will go along with the technically aspect, but in my mind that is stagflation.

  38. grim says:

    In the Rutgers article, they discuss (too briefly) a system that used the warmer attic air for basement makeup. This could be a great option in winter as the attic will work like a passive solar radiator to heat up the air, giving you a nice mix of warmer dry air for make-up. Though, if getting the HVAC ducting to the basement is going to be a problem, this will be even more complex.

    I’ve got the same issue, basically, my central AC is attic mounted with ceiling ducts all around. I’m not willing to carve out chunks of closet to get the AC to the basement, going with a separate unit is just easier.

    Be careful with openings between your basement and main living levels. I’ve seen some folks cut in decorative floor grates in the main level that are open to the basement in an attempt to share some of the main floor HVAC. I believe this approach may violate code as it is essentially a non-fireblocked opening to the basement.

  39. JJ's B.S says:

    My parents were too cheap to finish a basement. I have the best basement in the world in my split. Technically, my split has a basement. The
    “basement” is around 12 inchs below ground level. Just one step down. Feels like a regular floor, full size windows etc. Oddly basement square footage is at a much lower tax rate and is not counted in the regular square foot of house that is used for assessment purposes. Therefore is not a room. My other floor has a living room/dining room combo counts as one room. Bathrooms for assessment purposes are not a room. So my house for asssessment purposes is a five room house on a four level split where an entire level lower floor is left off. And entire top floor is a single bedroom. I think basements are great. Put them one inch below ground level.

    Libtard in the City says:
    October 1, 2012 at 10:42 am

    Grim,

    I really can’t argue with you about the usefulness of finished basements, but to this day, I’ve personally never seen any adults (besides JJ who might still live in his parents house) spend much time in one besides an occasional poker game.

  40. Brian says:

    dehumidifyer + condensate pump are all you need for a dry basemet. Electric bill really wasn’t that much higher.

  41. Essex says:

    We got rid of everything on the basement floor. Stripped on polished the slab. Carved some sweet French drains around the perimeter. Tried Epoxy which came up in a year. Next will grind polish and seal with something. Skate space.

  42. Brian says:

    sump pump helped too. pulls ground water away from the slab.

  43. Ragnar says:

    My finished basement is my favorite place in my house.
    Below is a photo of my 100 inch projector screen (I’ve since upgraded the system and decor)
    http://tinypic.com/r/2v3imhy/6

  44. Ragnar says:

    Here’s my pool table and bar in my finished basement. Open the sliding doors behind the curtains right, and I can walk out to a patio.
    http://tinypic.com/r/6yfxoj/6

  45. Brian says:

    45 –
    Jesus. That’s nice. I have my FIL’s old CRT television. Sucks because if you ever want to watch the game on fox sports they think everybody in the world has a flatscreen. The friggin score is on the top left of the screen and us poor folk don’t know wtf the score is. It’s off our CRT TV screens.

  46. grim says:

    Tilework looks good, that border contrasting the on-point body is a nice touch. You do that yourself?

  47. Juice Box says:

    The POS Bergen county cape I grew up in had a finished basement that was the playroom for a few generations of kids. The family that owned the house when it was built after WWII who’s children came of age in the late 1960s played down there when it had 9×9 asbestos flooring and then the family who purchased it it around 1966 added the wood paneling and the 1×1 white tile ceiling. When my family purchased the house in the 70s we added area rugs, recycled furniture from our Bronx apartment and an old Motorola Color TV set along with an old Marantz stereo and turntable and lots and lots of toys. In fact that is the only place in the house my mother would allow the toys so we all played down there as kids. Every kid in the neighborhood had a basement just like it, some nicer with bathrooms and other amenities.

    When we did the family GTGs a few times a year there would be at least 10 kids down there fighting for control of TV (back when you had the twist dial to change channels) or playing board games or Atari video games, and the rest of the year we would plop down there to watch cartoons or do our homework. Finished basements in a small POS cape were also a coming of age place. It was usually the first place we played spin the bottle and seven minutes in heaven or had our first drink.

  48. Painhrtz - Awaiting Clot's Apocalypse! says:

    Rag have to agree with grim here that tile work looks top notch. Nice looking basement.

  49. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    I am thinking that the upcoming debates may be Reagan-Carter in that Obama will have to play defense to a degree and Romney has the opportunity to get off some real “there you go again” zingers. I can just imagine these:

    When Obama mentions higher taxes on the wealthy, and if he gets into fairness, Romney could retort “In the past 20 years, I paid 140 million {guess} in taxes to this federal government. What did you pay?”

    If Obama takes credit for improvement in jobs and says “we”, Romney could say “We? Whose we? Businesses created those jobs Mr. President, and they created them in spite of your policies. For you to take credit for the economy improving is like taking credit for the sun coming up this morning.”

    I’d love to see a zinger or two like that in the first debate. It would put O-man out of his element because he’d want to zing back in the second debate and that isn’t his style without a teleprompter.

  50. yome says:

    “Who the heck is the government still helping at this point?”

    The millions of responsible homeowners that can not take advantage of low interest rates because their mortgage is underwater or they dont meet the 20% equity to refinance,but continue to make payments,carry high credit score.This savings could be spent in an ailing economy

  51. A Home Buyer says:

    True Property Tax Story-

    I overhead two guys talking about video games, namely a MMO which has a monthly fee to play. The one was arguing that the $15 a month to play the game is a waste of money, especially after you already bought the game.

    The ironic part – the conversation before this between them was the one guy (the one who plays the game) telling the other guy (Mr $15 a month is too much) he should move because 13K in property taxes is absolutely ridiculous to be paying. But he says the “proximity” to NYC and because the schools are great justifies it. It doesn’t matter that other places have yearly property taxes of under a grand, NJ needs to spend it to be the best, and it shows.

    Apparently $15 a month for a game which you can spend hours on is too much, but over 1K a month for convenience to a city you visit a couple times a month and a school district you have no children in is OK.

  52. yome says:

    And some homeowners that can turn their 30 year mortgage to a 15 year mortgage and start building up equity

  53. grim says:

    Mr $15 a month is too much

    He probably wouldn’t donate to the blog, despite spending hours here, either.

    (shameless plug)

  54. grim says:

    52 – Something just so morally repugnant about helping someone who has been responsible with their finances.

  55. 3B Buying says:

    Jill (if you are around): We did a drive by on this yesterday, for soem reason I thought it might back up to the GSP, but it does not. Any thoughts on this, nice block too, and a pretty direct run to Westwood train station

    http://www.njmls.com/listings/index.cfm?action=dsp.info&mlsnum=1234028&dayssince=&countysearch=false

  56. JJ's B.S says:

    If you are a postman or work at Target as a manager or a State employee living near NYC makes little sense giving high taxes. But remember, folks in Financial services, Lawyers, Surgeons, People in executive jobs in Company Headquarters the salary on average is 100K higher per year than outside Manhattan. The taxes you pay is cause they know I aint taking a 150K paycut to move to save 7K on taxes. Even cops and teachers face this issue. A cop teacher couple near me is making over 200k. Down south a couple teacher couple is making 110K.

    A Home Buyer says:
    October 1, 2012 at 11:27 am

    True Property Tax Story-

    I overhead two guys talking about video games, namely a MMO which has a monthly fee to play. The one was arguing that the $15 a month to play the game is a waste of money, especially after you already bought the game.

    The ironic part – the conversation before this between them was the one guy (the one who plays the game) telling the other guy (Mr $15 a month is too much) he should move because 13K in property taxes is absolutely ridiculous to be paying. But he says the “proximity” to NYC and because the schools are great justifies it. It doesn’t matter that other places have yearly property taxes of under a grand, NJ needs to spend it to be the best, and it shows.

  57. 3B Buying says:

    Also did a drive by on this, all redone, but high asking price in my mind for a cape( but what do I know)

    http://www.njmls.com/listings/index.cfm?action=dsp.info&mlsnum=1233802&dayssince=&countysearch=false

  58. grim says:

    57 – I think it backs up to the Washington Twp municipal lot or something (on Hudson)

  59. 3B Buying says:

    #60 grim: No, not that one. There is one on Hudson which would have been a possibility, but it is right next to the municipal complex, including the DPW. The 2 on Jackson back up to other houses.

  60. grim says:

    3b – Whatever you do, don’t bother with 495 Colonial. I got home and took a shower after I left that place, it’s been years since I walked out of a place smelling like smoke. It was actually difficult to breathe in that house.

  61. 3B Buying says:

    Speaking of high salaries. I read an article in yesterday’s Record, that said there are 4 million tax filers in NJ ( I assume that number includes both single and joint); according to the article 80% of those filers make 100k or less a year.

  62. 3B Buying says:

    #62 Thanks for the heads up. We looked at one in Hillsdale same thing, it was disgusting, oh and the brook in the bakyard did not help either.

  63. Libtard in the City says:

    “And some homeowners that can turn their 30 year mortgage to a 15 year mortgage and start building up equity”

    This would make a ton of sense, but the government stopped helping the responsible middle class middle class long before I was born. Helping the middle class does not maintain your base. Cut taxes on the rich and the donations and votes keep coming in. Give bread to the unions and the poor and the votes keep coming in. Support the middle class? Well that’s simply non-partisan. Can’t do that now could we? Baa Baa.

  64. Ragnar says:

    My house was built in ’92 and I think the basement was finished then, we bought in 2010. They did some other patterns in the tile as well. Fortunately the basement never gets wet. Though humidity is about 15% higher in the basement than the first floor. There’s a full bath and a bedroom past the bar.
    I wanted to host a get together last year at my place, but never put it together.

  65. Libtard in the City says:

    3b/Gary…keep on looking. Three years is what it will take for you to find what you are looking for at a fair price. Don’t give up. It will come to you. Plus think of all of the great stories you can tell at the housewarming party. Remember, we ended up scoring a great deal on one of the worst houses we ever visited. It’s also fun to shut-up the clueless realtors at the open houses and then laugh at the recent purchase prices of homes you visited when the prices show up in the paper a month or two later. Then about one year later, the homes are either for sale or look completely neglected as the eye candy the sellers staged for curb appeal fall apart based on the temporary nature of their purpose. I can’t tell you how many collapsing porticoes I’ve witnessed in the past few years.

  66. Libtard in the City says:

    I considered hosting a GTG at my place, but didn’t think I would have the bandwidth necessary for such an event. :P

    Nom considered hosting one, but I heard he was afraid everyone would make holes in his walls looking for all of his hidden bullion.

  67. Ann says:

    I hate finished basements. I think most of them should be ripped out and just returned to utility and storage space.

  68. 3B Buying says:

    #55 grim: You just shamed me!!! Thanks for all of your work through the years with the blog!!

  69. Ernest Money says:

    juice (30)-

    It will be like Japan…until it becomes like Zimbabwe (via Argentina).

    Good times.

    “Gartman also said structural changes instead of cyclical. All I want to know is will these structural changes best case be like Japan or Zimbabwe?”

  70. 3B Buying says:

    #67 Lib: Thanks for the encouragement! But we will not wait another 3 years. That is too long to live in the VW Passat!! We will keep looking, but have to have it done by Feb/March of 2013. I am still amazed however that people could live in a house for so long and virtually do nothing in 30 or 40 years!!!

  71. Ernest Money says:

    lib (32)-

    The answer to that question never changes: themselves.

    “Who the heck is the government still helping at this point?”

  72. yome says:

    How about epoxy basement floor paint? Durable,no water worry. There is one for the garage too

  73. Ernest Money says:

    As far as the whole stagflation thingy goes, we have to keep in mind that interest rates mean nothing in an economy that is being completely rigged by the Fed. The question now is not what the value of money is, but what constitutes money. Similarly, perpetual ZIRP has the knock-on effect of the mispricing of risk- across all asset categories- for as long as the policy remains in place.

    Finally, none of TPTB are ever referencing the situation of individual Amerikans or families when they discuss economic conditions; to them, we are the dumb saps who get hit with all the bad/unforseen consequences of insane policy, and banksters, giant corporations and the political class are always beneficiaries.

    The real Amerika will slog along in this woeful Depression until such time as all economic structures begin to collapse. Then, we will further devolve into civil war and societal dissoultion.

  74. Ernest Money says:

    Take a look at Catalunya; that might be Illinois in five years.

  75. Juice Box says:

    I haven’t seen too many homes in NJ with a full daylight basement. My inlaws home in the Midwest must be nearly 2k sq ft down in the basement. There are 2 Brs, full bath, boiler room with storage and the main room has very large windows out the back with sliders for access to the back and a full gas fire place. Ceiling height is around 12 ft, and other than the stairs it does not feel like a basement since the washer and dryer are on the first floor as well.

  76. Ernest Money says:

    plume (51)-

    Who cares whether we get a social liberal fascist prez or a social conservative fascist? There’s not an inch of difference between these two guys, and this whole thing ends in a smoldering mess. The debates will be formatted so that nothing of substance can be discussed. The failed current leader will talk about the future, and the failed challenger will not put forth one concrete idea.

    Best to harden that perimeter and take lots of trips to Cabelas.

  77. Ernest Money says:

    grim (56)-

    Just like we all noted several years ago, when the Pandora’s Box of moral hazard gets opened, there’s no stuffing back all the crap that comes flying out.

    “Morals” is an SAT word now. Nothing more. And that’s the way Amerika likes it.

    “Something just so morally repugnant about helping someone who has been responsible with their finances.”

  78. Comrade Nom Deplume in Republican PA says:

    [51] stu,

    “Nom considered hosting one, but I heard he was afraid everyone would make holes in his walls looking for all of his hidden bullion.”

    LMAO. Gotta clean coffee off my screen now.

  79. Comrade Nom Deplume in Republican PA says:

    [80] redux

    Actually more worried that they would be looking for the ammo.

  80. Online shopping, I like’s a great blog article.Really looking forward to read more. Awesome

  81. Comrade Nom Deplume in Republican PA says:

    One thing about being out here in Redbud, PA that I knew I would hate is the bugs. Man, it is bug city compared to NJ. Stink bugs all over the outside of the house. Harmless but annoying.

    And don’t get me going on Wild Kingdom in the basement. The wife got freaked out by a spider she saw that she thought she could saddle up. This after she tossed a bucket over a cricket to catch it, so she had nothing to trap the spider. Based on the description, it is either a wolf spider or a female mouse spider. Both are ugly as sin; and huge. I once tried to flush a mouse spider down a tub drain and it didn’t fit.

    So I went to try to locate the spider. I didn’t find it but I found and killed 5 crickets, a beetle and another spider. Today, I went into a spare bathroom that I had sealed because a bunch of stinkbugs got in. I hosed them down with pesticide and left. Later, I came back and none of them seemed the worse for it. So I caught and evicted a bunch of them. Will get the rest later as they won’t go anywhere.

    I don’t have the abject terror of bugs that I used to as a kid, but I still dislike them. One good thing about so many different bugs and birds around here: No mosquitoes. Haven’t seen one yet.

  82. Comrade Nom Deplume in Republican PA says:

    Finally, more proof that you never truly get away from New Jersey.

    At the bus stop this morning, there was an older girl with some kids waiting for the bus. She chatted with my 9YO a bit. After the bus left, I talked to her and learned that she was a part time nanny for a family in that development and a junior at WCU.

    Thinking she was an au pair due to a slight accent, I asked her where she was from. She said “Linden, New Jersey.”

    I told her that we just moved there from the brig. Conversation ensued. I may hire her as a baby sitter

  83. Comrade Nom Deplume in Republican PA says:

    [68] libtard,

    Actually, if I had stayed in the brig, I planned to renovate the finished part of the basement. So I would have told everyone about rumored bullion hidden in the basement behind the paneling, and let everyone do my demo for me.

  84. Thundaar says:

    Possible Nompound?
    37 acre island with self-sufficient farm and vineyard in Maine.
    http://www.tranzon.com/AP12096-1

  85. Libtard in the City says:

    “No mosquitoes. Haven’t seen one yet.”

    That’s because the local populace considers them a delicacy. A delectable side dish to be served as an accompaniment to the road kill.

  86. Comrade Nom Deplume in Republican PA says:

    [86] thundaar,

    It certainly meets all the criteria for a nompound: Defensible, self-sufficient, usable for recreation until TSHTF, . . . .

  87. Comrade Nom Deplume in Republican PA says:

    [87] libtard

    Actually, this isn’t exactly Pennsyltucky here. Lot of money. All the kids have ponies and not because Obama gave them one.

  88. Comrade Nom Deplume in Republican PA says:

    [87] libtard,

    I remember an article I read once, written by a NY’er who moved to NH. He described his area as one where “you had to race your neighbors to the road kill.”

  89. 3B Buying says:

    #76 Ernest: And Catalyuna might actually be in better shpae!!

  90. Comrade Nom Deplume in Republican PA says:

    Wow. Just Wow. I actually doubted this when I heard about it because I could not believe that the White House would double down on its threat directed at contractors who would send WARN Act notices just ahead of the election.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/memoranda/2012/m-12-19.pdf

    Chicago style at its best, folks.

  91. Comrade Nom Deplume in Republican PA says:

    [92] redux

    But don’t view that as a huge giveaway. Be well assured that the government will try to screw the contractors and weasel out of these payments. I saw it all the time during my time at the US Court of Federal Claims.

  92. JJ's B.S says:

    SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — General Electric is selling $7 billion in debt on Monday, ranging from 3-year to 30-year debt, according to Informa Global Markets. Standard & Poor’s said it would rate the bonds AA-plus for the deal, while Moody’s Investor Service maintained its Aa3 rating on the debt. GE said in a regulatory filing it will use proceeds to pay off notes due in 2013 which have a 5% coupon. It’s the conglomerate’s first debt offering since 2007, according to Bloomberg News.

    This is who ZIRP is helping. Which in turn trickles down to your 401K. Who knows maybe they can knock a nickle or two off your next GE Fridge.

    Bill is creating huge interest rate risk in bonds when they rise but he is eliminating default risk for many companies that now have huge excess cash and bond maturities kicked 20-30 years down the road. God Bless him. It will trickle down to us in huge bonuses, companies making more and are 529 and 401Ks shooting straight up

  93. 3B Buying says:

    I think someone is trying to start a bidding war in Brigadoon. Very nice cul de sac, newer section of town. Taxes are 14,500.00 after being reduced form 15,500.00 after the reassesment.

    http://www.njmls.com/listings/index.cfm?action=dsp.info&mlsnum=1234739&dayssince=&countysearch=false

  94. 3B Buying says:

    #95 JJ”S Who is Bill? ANd the rest of you post, why would I even bother commenting.
    Although you left out the part where companies will be hiring like crazy again, and all will be well.

  95. Painhrtz - Awaiting Clot's apocalypse says:

    77 Juice that is because they have to have someplace to live when the tornado takes the upper half. It was the same in Illinois at my SIL, they were struccling with cash flow. My retort your basement is larger than my apartment rent the joint out.

  96. JJ's B.S says:

    bill is ben, type. You so funny companies hiring again!!!! Employees are dead weight. I need fully automated companies financing operations at ZIRP and raising prices.

    How is bogging down the company with carbon life forms helpful.

    3B Buying says:
    October 1, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    #95 JJ”S Who is Bill? ANd the rest of you post, why would I even bother commenting.
    Although you left out the part where companies will be hiring like crazy again, and all will be well.

  97. grim says:

    I hate finished basements. I think most of them should be ripped out and just returned to utility and storage space

    I share the same sentiment on the following:

    Stucco
    Especially stucco that attempts to recreate any architectural detail in styrofoam
    And even more especially any house that includes quoins
    Vinyl Siding
    Aluminum Siding (especially painted aluminum siding)
    Kitchen renovations that include DIY painted cabinets
    Even worse when they put granite on crappy old cabinets that were painted (torn out and smashed is appropriate here)
    Any kind of cultured/fake stone
    Even more so when any single house includes two types of fake stone
    Trendy “open floorplan” homes where the builder basically removes every wall on the first floor.
    Mismatched window style
    Any house that includes a fluted column inside
    Molding in any color other than stained or white (especially not pastel)
    “Charming” details that are really just crap, especially if referred to as historic or antique (without merit) – Burn all of these
    Renovated houses that retain the old aluminum framed picture windows because they were too cheap to replace them.
    Vast expanses of porcelain tile
    Any fountain or pond
    Any kind of Popcorn or Trowled textured anything
    Venetian plaster (destroy it twice as fast if it’s actually pointed out as a feature)
    Any kind of decorative switchplates
    Hot tubs or saunas
    Unnecessary/”Interesting” roof lines
    Dormers or dog houses for “show”
    Anything floral
    Especially anything floral, or pastel, in a contemporary
    Gasoline and flares would be required if both are used with any kind of baroque, colonial, country, English, French, or any clashing period furniture.
    Likewise contemporaries that continue to retain the hollywood globe light strips in the bathrooms.
    Any use of brass other than on an entry door handle, knocker, or hinge (I may overlook this in a colonial or otherwise where brass interior door handles are acceptable).
    Did I say quoins?
    Brand new Furniture-style vanities in old bathrooms.
    Most all paneling that comes in a 4×8 sheet.
    Worse if painted over.
    Any formica that isn’t of the boomerang variety
    6″ recessed lighting fixtures with the eyeball trim
    Bedrooms in a basement
    Wrought iron railings in the interior
    Any vinyl flooring in the main living areas
    Especially if floral and in a light tan color
    Any door moldings that include corner rosettes (that are not in a victorian and original)
    Any crown molding that includes the cheater corner blocks for those incapable of mitering
    Any variety of green or red/pink marble anywhere
    Quoins
    Any attempt at painting wood flooring
    Pink tile
    Black tile
    Pink and Black tile together.
    Interior Soffit – Good god don’t get me started here, I can not stand interior soffit.
    Any tub or shower area whose ceiling doesn’t extend upwards to meet the actual full height room ceiling.
    Bathtubs with sliding glass doors (how does anyone fit through these? Even worse when the tub has a soffit).
    Quoins
    Houses with refinished hardwood flooring in such poor shape it should have been burned.
    Putting full bathrooms in common areas that don’t require them, just because they fit. Saw a house with a beautiful large full bath … Off the formal living room.
    Gloss paint on anything but trim. Good god, do not, ever, under any reasons, ever go further than a satin or eggshell, and only in the bath or high moisure/wear areas. Unless you have a half dozen greasy fingered kids, there is never any reason to paint a living area room in any finish other than flat.
    Quoins
    Window air conditioners out the front windows of a house
    Any tile with any kind of non-subtle pattern or picture (butterflies, floral prints, fish).
    Red dining rooms, painted in high-gloss red, painted over a crappy-ass taping job.
    Drop ceilings
    Even worse when it’s the old 1’x1′ cork tiles
    Any use of a 4′ T8/12 or longer Florescent bulb in anything but a closet

  98. 3B Buying says:

    #99 JJ: YEah thats right, we don’t need no stinking employees!!! ZIRP forever, because thatis what we will have, or it all collapses.

  99. Anon E. Moose says:

    yo [53];

    “Who the heck is the government still helping at this point?”

    The millions of responsible homeowners that can not take advantage of low interest rates because their mortgage is underwater or they dont meet the 20% equity to refinance,but continue to make payments,carry high credit score.This savings could be spent in an ailing economy

    That’s funny. When I was a renter, no one in the government (not even a Democrat! heh) seemd to have wanted to do sh!t to help out my family suffering out the housing bubble in a crappy rental. Nope, they were too busy helping deadbeat ‘owners’ stay in houses they never paid for.

    Couldn’t beat ’em, so I joined ’em! I’m an ‘owner’ now. Where’s my F-ing pony!?!

  100. yome says:

    Why will companies hire when productivity is at its highest in years and demand is slow.

  101. yome says:

    Congratulations! You’re in the bagholder club. Enjoy the amenities. The Fed runout of ponies for you newbies.Pray Romney dont win and take away mortgage and property tax deduction .The cake is in the oven

    Moose said;

    Couldn’t beat ‘em, so I joined ‘em! I’m an ‘owner’ now. Where’s my F-ing pony!?!

  102. Ann says:

    100 grim, Life was a lot better here before the Quoins came and ruined everything.

  103. Painhrtz - Awaiting Clot's apocalypse says:

    Grim I have small rosettes becasue i do lousy butt joints over doors. When I do my next set of renovations I’ll be sure to stick to the list, but definitely agree with 99% of it.

    my pet peeves

    700 K home with a sh!tty yard
    aluminum fence that does not go all the way around but is completed with 755 chain link.

  104. Painhrtz - Awaiting Clot's apocalypse says:

    755 = 75% i’m in full spelling tard mode today

  105. JJ's B.S says:

    Just checked my 401K today, Personal Rate of Return from 01/01/2012 to 09/28/2012 is 15.7%

    This is what I dont understand. People own stocks, bonds, cash, 401ks and houses as their main source of wealth.

    Peoples retail accounts both in stocks and bond are doing great
    Peoples 401Ks have been doing great.
    Money Markets/Cash you are earning near zero, but hey did not lose anything
    Housing up slightly year to date.

    Notice, no loss in the four main assets and two of four way up. What is joe blow crying about. He is making stacks of cash. Old folks have 10x their age invested in stocks and bonds on average. Meanwhile old folks live in some house they bought for 30K back in 1971. . What are they fixated on housing they aint selling. Also why are they fixated on low interest rates. They have to burn their money via withdawls each month. So just burn cash and leave stocks and bonds alone.

    Folks just dont want to be happy.

  106. chicagofinance says:

    Subtle forms of abuse are everywhere……I picked up the rake in the garage to clean up some leaves and realize the brand name is “HOMEOWNER”…….should have snapped it in half across my leg…..
    http://www.lowes.com/pd_99764-302-1913000_4294778634__?productId=1115681&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&pl=1&currentURL=?Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo=&stop_mobi=yes

    Anon E. Moose says:
    October 1, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    That’s funny. When I was a renter, no one in the government (not even a Democrat! heh) seemd to have wanted to do sh!t to help out my family suffering out the housing bubble in a crappy rental. Nope, they were too busy helping deadbeat ‘owners’ stay in houses they never paid for.

  107. JJ's B.S says:

    When you say my next set of renovations, those that mean you are doing them or hiring someone.

    I always crack up when people say I just put in a new vanity or something then I ask them was it hard, they then go I had someone else do it, I am like then why did you say you did it.
    Painhrtz – Awaiting Clot’s apocalypse says:
    October 1, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    Grim I have small rosettes becasue i do lousy butt joints over doors. When I do my next set of renovations I’ll be sure to stick to the list, but definitely agree with 99% of it.

  108. chicagofinance says:

    Trailing 12 on S&P = 27.3%; NASDAQ = 29%

    JJ’s B.S says:
    October 1, 2012 at 2:19 pm
    Just checked my 401K today, Personal Rate of Return from 01/01/2012 to 09/28/2012 is 15.7%

  109. grim says:

    aluminum fence that does not go all the way around but is completed with 755 chain link.

    Yeah, that’s me, neighbor has a stub of a fence on my property that is ancient. I asked him if I could tear it down and replace it, he said no problem. But after 6 grand plus for the fence I put in, I couldn’t stomach replacing his fence for another 1.5 or 2 grand. I’m sure I’ll get up fed-up enough to do it one day (the green/white aluminum privacy slats just don’t do it for me).

  110. JJ's B.S says:

    I know, but YTD of 15.7% for only 3/4 of a year is amazing in 2012. If you add in 4Q of 2011 you get fat cash,

    I never in my life saw people up 30% and still feel poor. Back in 1990s we had some 20% up years and people were packing the steak joints and smoking fat cigars. At 30% we are crying in our nonfat lattes.

    Bottom line you folks should be taking HELOCs and dumping it all into Mr. Market. Fat Stacks of Cash for all I say.

    You all know I am a big bond bull and hate stocks. Even I have dumped like 150K into stocks over last year. I firmly believe as little as 10K a month invested in the right mix of equities and bonds for as little as 5-7 years can add up to a good deal of money. I think Chifi will agree with my math.

    chicagofinance says:
    October 1, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Trailing 12 on S&P = 27.3%; NASDAQ = 29%

    JJ’s B.S says:
    October 1, 2012 at 2:19 pm
    Just checked my 401K today, Personal Rate of Return from 01/01/2012 to 09/28/2012 is 15.7%

  111. Ann says:

    More pet peeves…

    Anything Tuscan
    Really expensive appliances when the people don’t cook
    Railroad Ties in landscaping
    Big oversized tubs with jets in master bathrooms
    Houses that have been renovated so much they look like Frankenstein
    Houses where the addition eats up the whole backyard
    Granite snobs
    Yucky curbside mailboxes, such an easy fix
    Screened in porches that people then try to heat and put windows in
    Converted garages
    Wallpaper

  112. grim says:

    Forgot one.

    Pools with those stupid faux waterfalls. Does anyone really believe that you’ve got a lush tropical stream and waterfall in BC? I guess so. I mean, where else would the unicorns drink.

  113. 3B Buying says:

    #103 Actually I thought the last numbers for productivity were down.

  114. Jase Rion says:

    hello – hope that you can help this 1st time buyer regarding mortgage rate. about 2-3 weeks i paid to lock in a rate. since then rate continues to lower, now my locked-in rate is slightly higher. i’m closing in ~2 weeks. would i be eligible for lower rate even if i’m willing to forfeit the fee? or i’m stuck with what i signed?

    thanks.

  115. relo says:

    Coast: From yesterday:

    Weil earned four varsity football letters. He was named all-league in 1946-1947, and was a second team all-state fullback in 1947. He was captain of his team in 1947. Additionally, Weil earned two letters in basketball and participated in baseball and track. He was president of his senior class. Weil has the distinction of being a member of a group of players who cut class, were caught and not allowed to play against Ridgewood, to whom they lost. This prompted a sports writer of the Ridgewood News, Bob Curley, to print headlines that these cutters lost the game for Fair Lawn, and thus, the team name “Cutters” was born.

  116. JJ's B.S says:

    what bank

    Jase Rion says:
    October 1, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    hello – hope that you can help this 1st time buyer regarding mortgage rate. about 2-3 weeks i paid to lock in a rate. since then rate continues to lower, now my locked-in rate is slightly higher. i’m closing in ~2 weeks. would i be eligible for lower rate even if i’m willing to forfeit the fee? or i’m stuck with what i signed?

    thanks.

  117. Jase Rion says:

    Coldwell Banker Home Loans

  118. JJ's B.S says:

    Just curious how does allowing people to refinance help the housing market go up. It helps indvidual home owners, not prices.

    For example people who bought Jets PSLs at 8% financing. Lets say prices fall in half. Woody goes to existing psl holders you know what I will cut your financing rate to zero percent. You still need to pay off the principal balance however. How does that help raise secondary market prices.

  119. xolepa says:

    Basements, hmm. My tack was to plan from the beginning while house was still being drawn up. It started with Radon code which forced air movement under the slab and out thru roof line via perforated pipes and vertical stacks. Gets rid of the radon and at same time serves as a conduit for routing underground water to lowest point in the property. I don’t have nor need a sump. Also put in the thickest vapor barrier sheets available in the market at the time.It was green, about 10mil thick and imported from northern Europe. Connected them with special green glue to prevent moisture infiltration at joints. That was before the basement slab was poured. After pour, covered all floors and walls with high pressure resistant paint and sealed walls with additional vapor barrier plastic. Walking into my basement, you can’t tell, by the nose nor sight, what level you are at.
    I have about 1700 sqft of finished space, leaving other areas unfinished..workshop, utility, etc. Finished ceilings are almost 9ft high as I have water/baseboard heat. Finished areas contain full bath, wet bar, casino corner, home theater section, full kitchen, pool table and gym. Kids growing up rarely bothered to visit friends as they all came over. Keeps them out of trouble. Once in college, they all drank and slept there. Well worth the investment.

  120. grim says:

    Talk to your lender, they’ll lay out your options. You may be able to forfeit your lock -in fee in exchange for going back to a float. Also see if the lock includes any kind of one-time float down provision. Be careful, I’ve seen folks get burned by re-floating and having a closing delayed unexpectedly (although their locks would have ran out anyhow). You can always exercise the nuclear option and tell them if they don’t float you down, you’ll delay closing and start over with another lender.

    Did you go with Coldwell based on a recommendation from your agent?

  121. Jase Rion says:

    hi grim – thank you for the response. yes, i did contact them through email about 1 week ago, but never heard anything back. and long story short, yes, i’m going with coldwell banker for mortgage based on my agent’s recommendation.

  122. Libtard in the City says:

    My Montclair multi contains the following architectural details:
    Aluminum Siding (especially painted aluminum siding) – Planning on painting it shortly as the green from 1950 is almost white.
    Kitchen renovations that include DIY painted cabinets – Oh yeah. I replaced the hardware too.
    Even worse when they put granite on crappy old cabinets that were painted (torn out and smashed is appropriate here) – Not granite, see next item.
    Any kind of cultured/fake stone – Corrian beyitch!
    Mismatched window style – Some have panes, some do not. Some original candy glass, some newer.
    Renovated houses that retain the old aluminum framed picture windows because they were too cheap to replace them. – Check!
    Vast expanses of porcelain tile – Check!
    Likewise contemporaries that continue to retain the hollywood globe light strips in the bathrooms. – Check.
    Brand new Furniture-style vanities in old bathrooms. – Check.
    Any formica that isn’t of the boomerang variety – Removed the boomerang in 2004 to reveal pink and black plastic tiling on the walls.
    Any vinyl flooring in the main living areas
    Especially if floral and in a light tan color – Recently replaced with vast amounts of porcelain tile from the back door through the kitchen/bathroom and hallway.
    Any crown molding that includes the cheater corner blocks for those incapable of mitering – Nailed it! And those things weren’t cheap.
    Any variety of green or red/pink marble anywhere – Recently removed green variety.
    Pink and Black tile together. – See boomerang formica above.
    Interior Soffit – Good god don’t get me started here, I can not stand interior soffit. – In the kitchen above the cabinets and in the basement to encapsulate the low hanging asbestos coated pipes.
    Houses with refinished hardwood flooring in such poor shape it should have been burned. – Yup!
    Gloss paint on anything but trim. Good god, do not, ever, under any reasons, ever go further than a satin or eggshell, and only in the bath or high moisure/wear areas. – In the kitchen and bathroom.Unless you have a half dozen greasy fingered kids, there is never any reason to paint a living area room in any finish other than flat. – Got them too.
    Window air conditioners out the front windows of a house – I didn’t, but the tenants do.
    Red dining rooms, painted in high-gloss red, painted over a crappy-ass taping job. – I did when I lived there. Gator called it the redroom. Redrum, Redrum.
    Drop ceilings – In the basement.
    Any use of a 4′ T8/12 or longer Florescent bulb in anything but a closet – In the basement above the drop ceiling. Yup…got the drop translucent plastic below them.

    Ask me again how much my two units rent for? I guess I should I install quoins to jack it up further. The funny thing about the quoins. I never new their name but deduced what they were simply by how many times you mentioned them and their placement on the list between stucco and styrofoam. Whenever Gator and I see them added to an existing home (thousands of them in Union and millions in Staten Island), we simply say they JAPified it. I’m sure Snookie’d would be an appropriate term as well.

    How many Quoins do you think there are on Buddy Valastro’s home?

  123. Ragnar says:

    Quoins,
    I finally discovered what they were originally for, while reading about this architect’s dislike for them. You really have to look at the last photo, subtitled: fake stucco and foam quoins.
    http://mgerwing.wordpress.com/2010/12/08/architects-pet-peeve-no-8-fake-quions/

    Nothing is ironic as seeing an EFIS sided house fluffed with quoins, as a feature once designed centuries ago to keep stone corners from leaking, are now plastic parts ensuring years of stealthy rot from the inside out.

    Best decision I made my last home search was to run from a one million dollar EFIS house, as soon as I discovered what EFIS was.

  124. Ernest Money says:

    jase (124)-

    Your sphincter sore yet?

  125. Libtard in the City says:

    Mad Loot Investment Club:
    AIRR on Investments (excludes cash) TTM = 44% (Booyah!)
    “Trailing 12 on S&P = 27.3%; NASDAQ = 29%”

    Since start of club (4/26/2005):
    Mad Loot Investment Club 9.7%
    Vanguard 500 Index Fund (VFINX) 6.8%

  126. Ernest Money says:

    Clodwell is part of a company that was mismanaged into an LBO (Cendant-to-Realogy)…then, racked up so much debt it was in violation of its bondholder covenants…and is now going public again to raise cash to pay off the excessive debts.

    This should be an excellent place to get a mortgage.

  127. Ernest Money says:

    lib (128)-

    How much of that is in physical PMs?

  128. Ernest Money says:

    BTW, Clodwell Banker has no problem with hiring certified imbeciles as agents.

  129. Ernest Money says:

    imbecile = IQ between 26-50.

  130. Libtard in the City says:

    Jase – I once threatened the nuclear option with my mortgage broker. You should have seen his face. Difference was about an 1/8th so it wasn’t the end of the world. This is why I’m waiting for my 2.5 on the 15. If it doesn’t come soon, may have have to start measuring ten-years (though they rarely work out mathematically).

    Clot – “Your sphincter sore yet?” – That’s rich!

  131. 3B Buying says:

    I also do nto like Split levels that are redone in Stucco, same with Capes. I have seen both!!Also nothing worse then the Mc Man’s that are stucco or brick in the front and vinyl siding on the sides. Also Mc Man’s with no windows on the side of the house. And in the back of these ugly beasts cheap sliding glass doors leading to a 2 chair deck.

  132. Libtard in the City says:

    Clot – It’s Ernest Money.

    No members have made a withdrawal besides departing members. Return is calculated accurately based on our club accounting software (Bivio).

  133. JJ's B.S says:

    I have a reology bond bought during crisis that pays 12.5% coupon and has appreciated 25%. Apparantly lending to Reology is smarter than borrowing from reology.

    Ernest Money says:
    October 1, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    Clodwell is part of a company that was mismanaged into an LBO (Cendant-to-Realogy)…then, racked up so much debt it was in violation of its bondholder covenants…and is now going public again to raise cash to pay off the excessive debts.

    This should be an excellent place to get a mortgage

  134. Ernest Money says:

    That Realogy bond appreciated on the anticipation of an IPO.

  135. JJ's B.S says:

    Here is a crazy question. Thinking of backing out of short sale tomorrow. Too much rot around windows, extension etc. Pretty much it looked like in daylight backyard improperly graded, they concrete the backyard with a patio but extension is flat on ground and it wood right to ground, notice tons rot all along bottom of house originally hard to see as they nailed interior trim nailed to bottom of walls all along back. Wood was falling apart and wet. Same for all replacement windows. Then I get an as is agreement from sellers agent non-contingent upon inspection. Thinking of telling them knock another 50K off as worse case I will just rip the back porch off house. But that is expensive.

    I dont want to pay for an inspector. I already wasted time and money on this. I tried to find out what bank has mortgage, seller or sellers agent wont tell me. I dont have time to look. I did find in my search name of person who sold her house and he works in home improvment and lives nearby, was thinking of calling him and asking what up with the porch and house. He owned house 20 years till he sold it in 2003. Just trying to figure best way. I mean I know house has one electrical issue that needs fixing. Should I just call up and say hey I have a house that needs and electrical repair and tell him address and see what he says and play dumb. Or just tell him what I am fishing for.

    I mean if someone rebought house I grew up in and guy who owned it now was trying to cover stuff up. What is big deal if I tell truth. Some flipper got a hold of my moms old house and did some kooky things, someone buying it aint getting a straight answer out of him. It is either throw towel in or call prior owner. Finding prior owner was super easy, as it was his summer home as the current primary address he had on property shark is still his current address and his current address is his home based business which is in yellow pages. He also is the local electrician. So no suprise I would call. Just wondering if he would know I was fishing.

  136. JJ's B.S says:

    Also the fact LBO owners cash out by taking out debt with interest payable to themselves. So bond issued is technically a public issue but they own must of it and gettting a 12.75% coupon. Therefore LBO owners dont want to bk company, prefer to cash out equity, dilute company and keep bond payments flowing. This bond gets called at 105. If they call it, LBO issued bond in 2007, got 12.75% interest for five years and a 5% prem on call. Plus they bought in open market tons of these bonds during crisis when it was trading between 70 and 90. People buying shares in this IPO are first to get screwed. I with I just bought 100K of this back in 2007 and sat and laughed last five years.

    Ernest Money says:
    October 1, 2012 at 4:25 pm

    That Realogy bond appreciated on the anticipation of an IPO.

  137. JJ's B.S says:

    dave and buster bonds are also rocking. 11% coupon. I own them too.

  138. Anon E. Moose says:

    Money [127];

    [[Jase (124): …and long story short, yes, i’m going with coldwell banker for mortgage based on my agent’s recommendation.]]

    jase (124)-

    Your sphincter sore yet?

    I love you, man.

  139. Ernest Money says:

    jj, if you bought 100K of those bonds when they were circling the drain and it looked like Icahn was going to bust the whole thing up, it would’ve been the move of the century. You would’ve also been insane to do it.

  140. Ernest Money says:

    I think jj stands for junk bond junkie.

  141. Ragnar says:

    JJ,
    If you don’t want to pay an inspector, then don’t buy a house. Unless you have already booked an episode of “Holmes Inspection” with HGTV, so Holmes can come in and save the day and get hugged by your sobbing wife.

  142. Ragnar says:

    Off topic, but JJ must have a point of view. On 60 minutes they showed some photos of Arnold Schwarzenegger’s baby momma housekeeper Baena. That has got to be the ugliest woman with whom a movie star or governor has ever had an affair.

    JJ, what’s up with that?

  143. relo says:

    145: Rags,

    Camilla Parker Bowles gives her a good run.

  144. JJ's B.S says:

    I bought an insane amount of junk bonds in last four years. I did buy 100K of Bank of America during crisis. But that was a cash equivalent.

    I have a good home inspector. Trouble in a short sale you need a fully executed contract to put bid in. Bank says no 50-80% of time. I had a contractor look at house already but we went at night when owner was there and did best we could. I went back in daytime with owner not there and asked to be in house alone for a good 45 minutes and go room to room.

    I dont want to pay an inspector at this point. I am telling realtor I am lowering my accepted offer. Which is my right. After all contract from sellers attony says offer void after seven days. It is more than seven days. I want another 75K off. Then I will take it as is. Find out what price bank wants then pay for inspection. They want me to sign contract as is, give them 40K and I have to buy house regardless. Even if major structure issue. land value is like 335k so I think 350K is a good bid. Realtor thinks different. I told her I want to go low as why should I risk bank agree to a high bid and then I am stuck.

    I told her already I dont agree with her realtor strategy. I told her you should be talking sellers and buyers down not up. It is in the best interest of buyer to get house cheap and best interest of seller to get out before a bk. You are only one who cares about jacking up price at this point. If bank wants more so be it, I may be willing to pay full price. But what is my incentive now.

    Ernest Money says:
    October 1, 2012 at 4:42 pm

    jj, if you bought 100K of those bonds when they were circling the drain and it looked like Icahn was going to bust the whole thing up, it would’ve been the move of the century. You would’ve also been insane to do it.

  145. Ann says:

    134 The worst is a stone or brick facade on the front of huge Mcmansions with vinyl on the back. My house is vinyl, but it’s vinyl all around, not trying to be something it’s not lol.

  146. JJ's B.S says:

    Brick facade is a nightmare. Splits in my town all had brick facades in front in the 1950s. They are all gone. Needed pointing, water got behind them and hard to insulate behind them. Some folks painted them white and that faded and got ugly. Most folks ripped them off and sided.

    Ann says:
    October 1, 2012 at 5:30 pm

    134 The worst is a stone or brick facade on the front of huge Mcmansions with vinyl on the back. My house is vinyl, but it’s vinyl all around, not trying to be something it’s not lol.

  147. chicagofinance says:

    Given the types of things going on out there, I ask the questions: (1) you guys still long only?; (2) no leverage?; (3) any of your stuff get taken out?

    The reason I ask is that, as opposed to typical times, there are very few places where you can actually get the index return, because the bulk of the return was in mega-caps. As a result, the act of “blowing away” -this particular- trailing 12 is an interesting story to spin for a long-only/no leverage approach……

    Libtard in the City says:
    October 1, 2012 at 3:33 pm
    Mad Loot Investment Club:
    AIRR on Investments (excludes cash) TTM = 44% (Booyah!)
    “Trailing 12 on S&P = 27.3%; NASDAQ = 29%”

    Since start of club (4/26/2005):
    Mad Loot Investment Club 9.7%
    Vanguard 500 Index Fund (VFINX) 6.8%

  148. Essex says:

    OK I get it. October is go after the banks month. A day late and a dollar short. Yet the gubmint can suck another $1k from me in interest $$ I saved by settling a Credit Card. C*nts.

  149. Mikewaited says:

    Grim -6 link http://www.alloc.com/us_laminate_floor.html

    Good stuff put down thousands of square feet, go commercial grade & it may last a life time in a home setting. By the way a trained seal can install it. One note you will go through blades on your chop saw like water this stuff eats them. For me this was a bad thing for you not so much it is a measure of the hardness of the product in your home.

  150. Ernest Money says:

    The gubmint arse-rape of all of us will continue until we start shooting the perps.

  151. grim says:

    Is that enough money to pay for a lifetime of addiction treatment and psychological counseling?

  152. Mikewaited says:

    Grim if they give it to Stu’s investment club it may.

  153. Libtard at home says:

    “long-only/no leverage approach” – Yup. And this time, it’s not all Apple responsible for the gains. Our approach is about as low risk as you can be in the market. We won’t invest in any company that doesn’t have a 3 to 5 year track record of earnings and sales growth.

    Want me to publish the transaction ledger? I’ve got nothing to hide.

    Our most recent three purchases have been HEI/TITN/BJRI

  154. Ernest Money says:

    lib (158)-

    The only way to make money in equities (long-term) is to front-run the Fed, using inside information and HFT.

    Earnings are meaningless in an environment of currency destruction and mispriced risk.

  155. chicagofinance says:

    Libtard at home says:
    October 1, 2012 at 10:13 pm
    Our approach is about as low risk as you can be in the market.

    Casual restaurant with a 39 P/E and $1B market cap is low risk?
    I think you need to reevaluate your benchmarks……

    Defense contrator when we are staring down the Fiscal Cliff…….that is homerun or strikeout……low risk?

    I am not saying that these choices are bad……you loaded up on risk and you received QE2 & QE3 so you are styling….good gambling……just be honest with yourselves…..

  156. Fabius Maximus says:

    I was wondering when this would come up. Does the backstop on loses kick in?

    JPMorgan sued for fraud over mortgage-backed securities The New York Attorney General wants JPMorgan to relinquish any profits made by fraudulent activity
    The New York Attorney General has sued JPMorgan Chase for allegedly defrauding investors who lost more than $20bn (£12bn) on mortgage-backed securities sold by Bear Stearns.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19795646

  157. JJ's B.S says:

    “Excluding distressed sales, price gains were even larger. Home values rose 1 percent compared with the month before and were up 4.9 percent on a yearly basis”

    Sounds good, but remember BINARY. Munis are up 11%, Junk up like 17% and Stocks up like 25% on a yearly basis. If you sold Munis, Junk or Stocks to buy a house last year a bad decision. If you had money sitting in cash earning zero might have been a good decision. The 4.9% tells me nothing. Also what was mortgage rates 12 months ago, almost 4.9%. So you borrowed at 4.5% to get 4.9% which is a net .04 gain. ING savings is double that.

    Home prices rise in August: CoreLogic
    REUTERS — 18 MINUTES AGO

    NEW YORK (Reuters) – Home prices rose in August as the housing market continued to gain traction, but recent gains could start to wane as the summer comes to an end, data analysis firm CoreLogic said on Tuesday.

    CoreLogic’s home price index rose 0.3 percent from July and was up 4.6 percent compared with a year ago. It was the biggest year-over-year increase since July 2006.

    Homes that have been seized by banks or are in danger of being foreclosed are often sold at significantly reduced prices.

    Many economists believe the battered housing market has finally turned a corner this year as prices have stabilized.

    Still, the report forecast prices will fall 0.3 percent in September as the traditional summer buying boost wears off. Prices are expected to be up 5 percent compared with a year before.

    Stripping out distressed sales, prices are seen up 0.6 percent in September and up 6.3 percent from a year ago.

    Of the top 100 statistical areas measured by population, 20 showed year-over-year declines, down from 26 in July.

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