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From the Star Ledger:

These 2 N.J. suburbs are among most affordable ‘you’d like to live in’ outside of major cities

One of the desirable traits of living in New Jersey is much of the state’s proximity to a major city, yet it can still be pricey to live on the outskirts of a major metropolitan region.

But according to new Realtor.com research, there are actually affordable suburbs with low crime rates and reasonable commutes in the Garden State “that you’d like to live in.”

The website identified Hillside in Union County and Gloucester City in Camden County as two of the most affordable suburbs in the country that are located outside of major U.S. cities.

While it may not have the same name value as popular suburbs like Montclair or West Orange, Hillside is located an hour from Midtown Manhattan and is considerably cheaper, with a median listing price of $272,000, according to Realtor.com

“That’s why more people are looking at Hillside, which lacks a quaint city center but still has an urban feel with street blocks lined with unique older homes,” the website says.

In South Jersey, Realtor.com notes that there is an abundance of affordable suburban options outside of Philadelphia, but found Gloucester City, where the median listing price is $86,700, as the most affordable option.

Realtor.com does make it clear that these two New Jersey towns are lacking some of the attributes many look for in a suburb outside a city. In Hillside, the school system is rated lower than other nearby suburban towns, while the Union County township also lacks fine dining options, according to the website.

And in Gloucester City, one of the reasons listing prices are so low is “due to the surplus of vacant homes or places that need some serious work.”

This entry was posted in Demographics, Economics, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

66 Responses to Welcome Home

  1. grim says:

    For me, if you’re looking for a credit market risk short, I’m looking very hard at TSLA. Too many factors to list but I didn’t view the recent convert as the company coming from strength. Play is a bit longer term since they pushed out maturities and I need to massage the numbers a bit more but these guys have seriously kicked the can down the road, funding everything with low coupon converts.

    Two things I’d never bet against, no matter how shitty the situation looks. Apple and Elon Musk. Apple, because they have an innate ability to pull some rabbit out of a hat at the most opportune time, and change everything. And Musk, because it’s like standing next to him at the craps table, betting against the shooter at the craps table, when the entire table is cheering him on, and he’s got a bankroll way bigger than you. Even if you win, you get paid out shit, and the rest of the table hates you. That’ll never happen, since his dice are loaded.

    I mean, hell, AT&T has more debt than Venezuela, and they are bleeding out of every orifice. I don’t see how they don’t break up, or fold.

  2. Fast Eddie says:

    Hillside? I’ll pass on Hillside. I’d say Clifton is probably the most bang for the buck. You have a train with great parking that’s 25 minutes into Hoboken or transfer at Secaucus into Manhattan. Clifton has a slew of affordable houses to purchase. Plus, you have access to many major highways within minutes. Who wrote this article? Hillside?

  3. Tuesday Chernobyl says:

    Anyone saw HBO’s Chernobyl’s last night. Very good.

    Highly recommend it. A lot of – “It can’t be, that is impossible” moments. Reminds of the housing and financial crisis.

  4. 3b says:

    An article in marketwatch this morning HELOC s are back big and 50 percent of mortgage originations are now coming from non-bank lenders. And according to the article it’s not hard to qualify for a mortgage. Sounds like a little de ja vu to me. If the article is to be believed.

  5. Fast Eddie says:

    Plus, Clifton has punk bagel. :) Where else can you walk into a bagel shop at 7:00 AM on Sunday morning and hear some Motorhead?

  6. Libturd, can't say I didn't warn you. says:

    Was thinking the same thing. Hillside and Gloucester City are the types of places where they don’t pump gas after dark for fear of being robbed. You pump it yourself or pay some crackhead to pump it and you walk to a bulletproof window to pay for the gas itself in these places. I’d take Gloucester City over Hillside though since they make a mean cheesesteak down there.

  7. leftwing says:

    “Two things I’d never bet against, no matter how shitty the situation looks. Apple and Elon Musk.”

    Grim, maybe. But two of my best trades last year were doing exactly that.

    I shorted the “420 financing secured” when the stock was around 350 and rode that down. Hopped on when he thumbed his nose at the SEC “no admit-no deny” offer on a Friday in the 200s and rode that sucker up.

    Guy is a genius. He’s also a corporate governance nightmare.

    I wouldn’t advise getting in right now because unlike the two trades above the stock price is out of line with the direction of the catalyst.

    But make no mistake about it, this guy screwed the pooch with his recent convert.

    He waited until the share price was at a 26 month low to issue about eight million share equivalents – when he fully knew for multiple quarters that he needed the money. Pure hubris and stubborness. And very costly.

    Talking heads keep saying how the demand for the paper was such a bullish signal.

    BS. Price anything low enough and there are multiple buyers. Not bullish, shows market oblivion.

    He’s the gift that keeps giving if you play that angle. I was seriously saddened when the SEC (tried to) gag his tweets.

    Remember products/companies and their stocks are two very different things.

    Anyway, I still need to keep looking at this pig. Haven’t had to do this much work on a set of financial statements since GE…..

  8. leftwing says:

    And, to be clear, I fully expect the share price to move up before down (absent serious market downdrafts).

    I’m just trying to discern the right entry point and wait for our boy to move the shares through that with some crazy, trump-esque tweet.

  9. 30 year realtor says:

    NYT article on “instant buying” of real estate by Zillow and others is interesting. My bet is that business model ends in tears.

  10. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Anybody else enjoying their hedges/shorts today?

  11. Libturd, can't say I didn't warn you. says:

    Today is far from over, shortie pants.

  12. leftwing says:

    Looking to try to write some LYFT puts against earnings tomorrow, missed my window in the high 50s a few days back….wouldn’t mind seeing a quick pullback there before the end of the day even although I’m long…

  13. Fast Eddie says:

    Anybody else enjoying their hedges/shorts today?

    The shorts are nice when it’s a bit warmer. As for the hedges, they get trimmed in late summer.

  14. leftwing says:

    put a TSLA trade on, keeps flying into cyberspace.

    basically a net credit for a deb1t put spread 15 wide, financed by 3x the number of puts twenty beneath the short leg

  15. leftwing says:

    merged my and grim’s view…i make a little if the shares do nothing, good money for 5-10% down, and just don’t want a 20% collapse

    sh0rt, but trusting elon doesn’t blow up

  16. Libturd, can't say I didn't warn you. says:

    Art’s Deli, Gloucester City.


    Sadly, the only reason to go to that hole.

    Their cheesesteaks are top 10 too.

  17. Libturd, can't say I didn't warn you. says:

    Anyone getting hungry?


  18. leftwing says:

    Uber has to be feeling like their balls are in a vise….some very unhappy people running around in G4s and limos…

  19. Fast Eddie says:

    Philly: Known for cheese steaks and Rocky Balboa. No wonder why they have a chip on their shoulder. They are the birth place of our nation though and I will forever be endeared to them for that. Otherwise, their attitudes are less than to be desired. Sal Paolantonio wrote an article on the inferiority complex suffered by Philadelphians. Can somebody search for it?

  20. 3b says:

    Fast NJ suffers from the same inferiority complex in relation to NY. At least Philly is a decent city. Every city in NJ is a trap hole.

  21. Fast Eddie says:


    South NJ maybe, not the NY metro area suburbs. As noted here, we’re all one big borough basically. Philly pales in culture, wealth and power compared to NYC.

  22. Libturd, can't say I didn't warn you. says:

    Philly has significantly better kraft-beer bars and gastro-pubs than NYC. NYC has become one giant playground of the rich (most, who have not worked a day in their lives). Philly has real people and terrible sports franchises.

  23. JCer says:

    lib not jut terrible sports teams, but terrible fans as well. They have riots when they win the Superbowl.

    Philly is nice tiny little city(Center City) basically attached to something that resembles Trenton/Newark/Camden/Paterson. So much of Philly is straight up ghetto with little redeeming quality, the crime there is disturbing.

  24. Libturd, can't say I didn't warn you. says:

    It used to be like that and still is in some places. But the gentrification, especially North and East has really changed a lot of formerly tough neighborhoods into hipster alcoves. Fishtown, used to be notoriously tough. Now, I walk around there at night without a worry.

  25. Libturd, can't say I didn't warn you. says:

    Friggin’ Trump. Perhaps he can find an apprentice to help him?

  26. 3b says:

    Fast sorry I don’t agree I see it in north Jersey too. And north jersey people don’t like being considered one big borough of NYC. That’s what many born and bred and multi generation living in the state have told me. As for Bergen even our county seat is a dump.

  27. 3b says:

    NYC has turned totally fake now. Self absorbed self tortured people. There are almost no places down by me at WTC where you can just go and get a basic sandwich. Everything is artisinal and fusion and blah blah can’t even get good Chinese any more!! These blow ins from other states that have taken over the city blow!!

  28. 3b says:

    Lib you are right Philly is definitely on the upswing regentrifying. Hopefully it keeps some of its original charm and grittiness.

  29. The Great Pumpkin says:


    What is your ideal location? Just wondering. Where should one take up residence in this country?

  30. grim says:

    Yeah, I wouldn’t go long Tesla either, dude is a time bomb.

  31. ExEssex says:

    11:48 that’s right you guys have seasons.

  32. leftwing says:

    “Fast NJ suffers from the same inferiority complex in relation to NY.”
    “South NJ maybe, not the NY metro area suburbs.”

    LOL. BS.

    NNJ is the most insecure area I have nearly ever been.

    Literally. No where else have I seen the intensity and downright pathological obsession about ‘rank’.

    Number one suburb, number one school district, fastest growing, income rank, wealth rank, AAAAAAA sports, etc, etc.

    For anyone who has spent any appreciable time outside the State living with real people in other areas it is downright bizarre.


    Sorry, people in other locations just don’t do that. Or really care.

    The self absorbed insecurity of this population is off the charts.

    There aren’t that many people running around with a forefinger in the air yelling “Darien, baby!”

    “Yo, muthafcuka, Chappaqua bitches!”


  33. leftwing says:

    Alright, wrote my LYFT puts.

    All set up for tonight/tomorrow.

    Just stay inside the rails, 52.50-70. Preferably right at 66 or so.

    Make my day easy. Please Mr Market.

  34. Fast Eddie says:


    Insecure or arrogant? Either way, it’s not what keeps me here. Some may need status, I’ll take convenience, access, variety and whatever flavor moves me. But I get it and I do find some attitudes annoying… just as I find people who give puppy names to their kids annoying.

  35. 3b says:

    Left well said. I have lived in north Jersey for over 30 years and I still shake my head at the silliness of it all. Oh and we have two football teams that won’t call themselves NJ. Just saying.

  36. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Self-absorbed? Come on, man!!

    Nj is stupid competitive. For a guy that loves capitalism, why are you taking a crap on the competitive nature/mindset from people in the NYC metro area…specifically northern nj.

    Other areas aren’t into rankings because they have no motivation and are losers. Why would losers care about rankings?

  37. leftwing says:

    Insecure. For sure.

    Listen to the tone of the claims. Striving. Proving.

    Quiet = strength.
    Yelling look at me = insecurity.

  38. 3b says:

    Pumps I will answer your question as it appears innocent enough but will not argue with you. I don’t have an ideal location and there is no such thing as Brigadoon even in north Jersey. I will say there are many fine areas located throughout this great country that offer good schools job opportunities and quality of life at a much lower cost. And some of these areas are in places you despise and ridicule.

    I simply don’t believe we are any special or better than many other areas and I don’t try and rationalize the highs cost of living here. For a place that’s so great and offers everything it’s amazing to me that so many people appear so miserable.

    I have also never seen an area that is so self absorbed and angst ridden and insecure yet claim to be the best.

  39. 3b says:

    Pumps you just proved lefts point.

  40. 3b says:

    Fast when your kids are grown you will see there is not a whole lot to do here. Perhaps true in other areas as well but Bergen is pretty dull for people when child raising is done.

  41. leftwing says:

    Look at the village idiot as Exhibit 1. Punching in right on cue, btw.

    Comes on here every day looking for affirmation of his lifestyle, hometown, home, earnings, etc.

    The guy actually comes on here and finds it important to argue and note that “there are millionaires living in the hills of Wayne”. He’s a joke.

    I mean, seriously, you are going to argue that is confidence, strength or arrogance?

    Or a little boy trying to play with the teenagers knowing he won’t be accepted?

    This State is full of Pumpkins…

  42. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Actually, I come on here because I try to show people that bash jersey on a regular basis how wrong they really are. It’s the competitive nature in me, I can’t turn down a debate….especially when I believe their position is wrong.

  43. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Where is this magical place? Why is the pricing not aligned with the benefits you preach here? Good schools, job opportunities, and quality of life at a much lower cost……then why is it so cheap? Tell me another one…

    “I will say there are many fine areas located throughout this great country that offer good schools job opportunities and quality of life at a much lower cost.”

  44. JCer says:

    Pumps, you are not wrong Grim has on occasion given similar examples of how the established neighborhoods in other cities where people on this forum would want to live are not really any cheaper than NJ. The biggest thing I find around here is not the cost of the homes it’s the property taxes. Our property taxes are on average anywhere from 50%-100% higher than most other parts of the country. The other thing is the government in NJ is laughable, nothing but taxes and the services aren’t even good(roads should be good, etc).

  45. 3b says:

    Jcer you fell for his trap again just like I did again! We have been over this multiple times with him. It’s just a circle jerk with him. Ignore him. Like I
    will. Again.

  46. 3b says:

    Jcer yes the property taxes are the worst but the pricing too with all due respect to grim. You will pay similar to what you pay in a good neighborhood/area here. But you get much more for your money as well and coupled with the lower property taxes.

  47. joyce says:

    Ignore him. Like I will. Again.

    Wanna bet?

  48. 3b says:

    Another thing I have found living in north Jersey is that those that live and work out here have little or nothing to do with NYC. Some have not been there in years. For most of these people people NYC might as well be on the other side of the world.

  49. 3b says:

    Joyce you are on!

  50. JCer says:

    Pumps in general places that are cheap have fewer employment opportunities. Areas with lots of vacant land have new housing subdivisions where people can get good houses cheap but the local Wal-Mart is the only thing around. There is a big premium to live close to town.

    Theoretically if you had a good income it is easier to live in other places provided you are willing to live outside the coveted areas. If you have a million or more to spend on a home, NJ offers good bang for the buck, there is a lot of quality housing in nice towns to choose from. If you want a big cheap newer construction house in NJ you have to go all the way out to Sparta.

  51. Fast Eddie says:

    …Bergen is pretty dull for people when child raising is done.

    As opposed to where? Snow Shoe, PA? I don’t hear a pin drop at night when I sleep, I hear birds in the morning, I have a train that brings me to the greatest city in the world and I’m an hour from the beach. Where are these magical places where I can buy a CHC for 200K and have anything I want within reach? Anyone? Is Austin and Nashville magical? Savannah? Tampa f.ucking Bay? Someone tell me!

  52. joyce says:

    Assuming we’re talking about Bergen County, which beaches are within an hour’s drive?

  53. joyce says:


    The second half of this article is not what I was expecting, given the headline. Crazy the sh!t we have to pay for in this state.

  54. 3b says:

    Gary/Fast Jeez give it a rest! You are starting to sound like the realtors you so used to dedpise. Birds in the morning an hour from the greatest city. At least the old Gary you could have a conversation back and forth. You have your Tara now and no one can say anything you perceive to be negative. I
    made a simple comment that Bergen County and if it makes you fe l better suburbs in general don’t have a lot to offer once children are raised.

  55. 3b says:

    Joyce asbury spring lake sea Girt about an hour or so no traffic.

  56. ExEssex says:

    I maintain that Jersey is/was awesome.
    Didn’t matter that the burbs are bland. All burbs are bland. Ever spend time outside of the City of Chicago. At some point Bland is just right.

  57. ExEssex says:

    Everything old is new again:


  58. Leftwing says:

    Hey I agree that many amenities here can’t be replicated elsewhere.

    My issue with Jersey is that it is soooo crowded, and crowded with Jerseyites….

    Cut the population in half, especially the asshole portion. Take me back to the 70s I’m all in. Before 24 (the highway) even existed, and the only way West of Short hills was main St (124 currently).

    These days no way in hell SL/SG/AP is an hour away from Bergen during regular summer travel hours. The Parkway on Friday nights or Saturday am is worse than the 405 at rush hour. I’m closer than you are and can’t do that.

    Clean this state out in all in… Right now it is just a race to Queens. Which at one time was a beautiful place close to the ocean and City…

  59. JCer says:

    exEssex, I can see NYC from my house when I wake up, and within 5 miles get Israeli, Indian, Moroccan, Turkish or Ethiopian food and of course good pizza or bagels. I know what I should complain(taxes, bad government, etc) about vs. be thankful for(good schools, restaurants, municipal services, conveniences, etc).

    Suburbs might be bland but not the Jerz, people here are kind of bash*t, sometimes in a bad way sometimes in a good way. NNJ is definitely part of the NYC suburbs along with LI and Westchester/CT and the people are largely similar in all of these places(some crazy and some not, to eddies point it is the greatest city on earth). Growing up I spent a lot of time in CA(LA and Palm Springs pretty much 6 months a year for the first 5 years of my life and I have a fondness for LA) but pretty much in the US I could see myself living in NYC(or the burbs), Boston, Philly, Chicago, SF, LA, maybe Seattle or Miami(or Detroit area begrudgingly some parts of MI are really nice) but realistically most other cities aren’t all that exciting. If I didn’t live here it would probably be in order of preference(Westchester, CT, LI, Philly, Boston) and frankly if money were no object Greenwich Village or Tribeca is where I’d want to live.

  60. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Jcer consistently nails it.

    His last post, read it, and read it well. Nails it. Anyone saying otherwise is lying to themselves.

    Fast nails it when describing jersey. You can be in the mountain lakes cliff jumping into lakes. Take a mountain bike ride down mountain creek, and end your evening eating fresh oysters while watching the sun go down in the beach. Next day, have breakfast at a fabulous diner, then go to a brewery (other half)in Brooklyn for a drink or two, and then enjoy a fabulous dinner at sugar cane with a walk along the river after.

    Life is good (in jersey)!

    Ac anyone? Museum in the city? Bike ride through the city? Hike the palisades? I can go on and on.

    Hell, even crappy Paterson has its areas to visit. Great falls is pretty cool after heavy rains. Get your heart pumpkin (lol) make you feel alive.

  61. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Wow, I really should start proofreading. Watching this hockey game.

  62. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Ying and yang. Good and bad in everything. With all the benefits of a dense population comes a cost.

    “My issue with Jersey is that it is soooo crowded, and crowded with Jerseyites….”

  63. grim says:

    Miami? Yeah right. You’ll regret that decision.

    I agree with all of the other options.

  64. chicagofinance says:


    If you are an equity investor, I would keep your focus there. To be clear, in the capital structure, the debt stands in front of equity, so what is bad for debt may or may not be bad for the stock price. You can’t draw the direct conclusion that ratings downgrades are bad, unless it is an indication of a deteriorating core business or foolishly risky capital outlay. Those distinctions I think are self-evident and can be evaluated independent of creditworthiness, which I would argue is more of a “latent potential” to be unlocked. Case in point, who gives a sh!t that Stu’s FICO score is 875, he never borrows money anyway, except to refi for the n^24th time.

    Just ask some other posters on these threads; I am thinking about one in particular with empirical knowledge. Rating it itself is meaningless, except where there is a structural reason that restricts the ability of a company to raise capital when needed. As an example, the main constituent investors of a company’s debt become restricted once IG is removed.

    That said, why is a company BBB/-/+? Is it an ongoing commitment to an optimal capital structure. As an example, Sirius is junk rated, but it somewhat represents a steady state decision. Whereas AT&T has primarily focused on stressing the balance sheet in the face of maintaining a ludicrous dividend that is a vestige from a bygone age. Rating matters if a company’s operations or strategy vision demand that it visit the debt markets from time to time.

    As you personally analyze a company, if you see future stress points in the future that suggest windows where the company needs capital, and being locked out of the market is material, yes, I would care.

    However, I just had this conversation yesterday when I was in Ithaca. The most important number is ALWAYS the revenue line and then gross margin. If that is addressed well, the rest of it will fall in line. I appreciate the question, but focus on the debt only if debt is the focus. JMHO

    Nomad says:
    May 6, 2019 at 8:34 am

    Read yet another article on the BBB debacle and companies who have the most of it on their balance sheets. Article took aim at InBev, VA, T, ABBV to name a few. Question for you if I might, how do you decide when looking at the above and any others with a lot of BBB rated debt if they really are on the edge in terms of their common stock? Concern is that a lot of this stuff is improperly rated and / or covenant lite. Do you look at simple coverage ratios or do you dig into the debt offerings or have a team member who does? At some point, economy slows and a lot of the “BBB” may not actually be even that good. Thanks,

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