C19 Open Discussion Week 14c

From Bloomberg:

Suburban New Jersey Homes Headed for Biggest Price Increase Since 2005

Pandemic-weary New Yorkers, eager to escape the confines of city living, may push up suburban New Jersey home prices by the most in 16 years.

That’s the forecast by real estate consultancy Otteau Valuation Group for four counties close to New York City: Bergen, Essex, Union and Middlesex. The firm sees a dip in single-family home prices this year, followed by a 6% jump in 2021, the biggest annual increase since 2005.

“This looks like the 1970s, which was a time when people were leaving the cities,” Jeffrey Otteau, president of the firm, said in an interview. “You had tremendous growth in places like Long Island and Westchester County, at the expense of the Manhattan economy.”

New York’s two-decade urban revival drew in families who put up with dense living conditions and costly housing as trade-offs for a short commute. That reduced demand for suburban properties, keeping a lid on values and making remote, multiacre estates especially hard to sell.

Now, three months into the city’s lockdown, those norms are fading fast. New Yorkers no longer tethered to their Manhattan workplaces are free to move — and those with the means to splurge are seeking big houses, with space for home offices and backyards for socially distant entertaining. Prices at the highest end of the market can be comparable to a three-bedroom apartment in Manhattan.

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137 Responses to C19 Open Discussion Week 14c

  1. Phoenix says:

    Precisely. And this is why it is used as a tool and a threat. What is the downside if it were not for social media? Get tossed-it’s funny, the “system” thinks what she did was minor, yet society thinks it was so severe that they doxxed her and got her fired from her job- IOW, society believed she deserved a penalty, but the system was too lazy to provide one.
    Same thing with rogue police officers-they don’t prosecute. And there is your reason for the riots. People know who is getting off before the party even starts. And they don’t like it.
    Do your job. It’s what you get paid to do. Prosecute.

    ” If Amy Cooper were prosecuted it would just cost money and she’d get it tossed, it’s not a particularly strong case and she most likely can afford a good attorney. Prosecutors use a fair amount of judgement in how and what they will prosecute, there aren’t resources to prosecute what you will likely lose.”

  2. ExEssex says:

    Mr. Bolton, who did not testify during House proceedings and whose offer to testify in the Senate trial was blocked by Republicans, confirms many crucial elements of the Ukraine scheme that got Mr. Trump impeached in December. He also asserts that the president was willing to intervene in criminal investigations to curry favor with foreign dictators. And he says that Mr. Trump pleaded with China’s president to help him win re-election by buying American crops grown in key farm states.

  3. The Great Pumpkin says:

    This is getting crazy.

    “For hours into the night on Monday, Indian and Chinese forces fought with fists, rocks, batons and clubs wrapped in barbed wire at an altitude of more than 14,000 feet in a remote part of the Himalayan mountains. In the melee, some soldiers fell off cliffs into a river, Indian security officials said. At least 20 Indian troops died.”


  4. The Great Pumpkin says:

    It’s all a long term cycle. Just follow the demographic groups.

    “This looks like the 1970s, which was a time when people were leaving the cities,” Jeffrey Otteau, president of the firm, said in an interview. “You had tremendous growth in places like Long Island and Westchester County, at the expense of the Manhattan economy.”

  5. The Great Pumpkin says:

    The supply favors appreciation long term. So much demand, so little supply.

    “If You Build It…
    Permits to build new homes in the U.S. jumped more than 14% in May, mortgage applications to buy a home rose to the highest level in 11 years during the second week of June, and home-builder optimism has rebounded this month. But actual building remained muted, with new construction posting only a modest gain last month. That all suggests a bounce in construction this summer, though the longer-term outlook will depend on the pace of recovery for the labor market and broader economy.”

  6. The Great Pumpkin says:

    We are in need of serious leadership. China just laughing at us. There has to be a way to get better leadership than Biden/Trump.

    “U.S. strat­egy to­ward the Peo­ple’s Re­pub­lic of China has rested for more than four decades on two ba­sic propo­si­tions. The first is that the Chi­nese econ­omy would be changed ir­re­versibly by the ris­ing pros­per­ity caused by mar­ket-ori­ented poli­cies, greater for­eign in­vest­ment, ever-deeper in­ter­con-nec­tions with global mar­kets and broader ac­cep­tance of in-ternational eco­nomic norms. Bring­ing China into the World Trade Or­ga­ni­za­tion in 2001 was the apoth­eosis of this as­sess­ment.

    The sec­ond propo­si­tion is that, as Chi­na’s na­tional wealth in­creased, so too, in­evitably, would its po­lit­i­cal open­ness. As China be­came more de­mo­c­ra­tic, it would avoid com­pe­ti­tion for re­gional or global hege­mony, and the risk of in­ternational con­flict—hot or cold—would re­cede.

    Both propo­si­tions were fun­da­men-tally in­cor­rect. Af­ter join­ing the WTO, China did ex­actly the op­po­site of what was pre­dicted. China gamed the or­ga­ni­za­tion, pur­su­ing a mer­can­tilist pol­icy in a sup­pos­edly free-trade body. China stole in­tel­lec­tual prop­erty, forced tech­nol­ogy trans­fers from for­eign busi­nesses and con­tin­ued man­ag-ing its econ­omy in au­thor­i­tar­ian ways.

    Po­lit­i­cally, China moved away from democ­racy, not to­ward it. In Xi Jin­ping, China now has its most pow­er­ful leader and its most cen­tral­ized gov­ern­ment since Mao Ze­dong. Eth­nic and re­li­gious per­se­cu­tion on a mas­sive scale con­tin­ues. Mean­while, China has cre­ated a for­midable of­fen­sive cy­ber­war­fare pro­gram, built a blue-wa­ter navy for the first time in 500 years, in­creased its ar­se­nal of nu­clear weapons and bal­lis­tic mis­siles, and more.”

    “The president pleaded with Chinese leader Xi Jinping for domestic political help, subordinated national-security issues to his own re-election prospects and ignored Beijing’s human-rights abuses”


  7. The Great Pumpkin says:

    “John Bolton said in the book that President Trump’s decision-making consistently prioritized his re-election and his family’s well-being ahead of the national interest. The former national security adviser describes “obstruction of justice as a way of life” inside the Trump White House, Michael C. Bender and Rebecca Ballhaus report. The Justice Department filed an emergency request for the court to issue a temporary restraining order and injunction to block publication of Mr. Bolton’s book and prohibit his publisher from disseminating it.”

  8. ExEssex says:

    The lawsuit to block is based on a draconian NDA Signed by Bolton.
    If the book contained “secret stuff” they’d go after Simon & Schuster.

  9. Juice Box says:

    Strange claims from Bolton about China. Trump put massive sanctions on China via tariffs starting in January 2018 which started a huge trade war which continues today.

    Bolton’s claim Trump about lifting tariffs for a few billion in soybean purchases seems like nonsense, there is way way more going on with the trade war than just soybeans.

    This was no phone call either. “Trump made the request for electoral help from Xi during a one-on-one meeting at the Group of 20 summit in Japan in June 2019”.

    June of 2019 is a long way off from Nov 2020, and U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer was there and has denied it happened.

    And of-course our New Jersey Senator that has a penchant for dominican hookers of dubious age chimed in.

    Sen. Bob Menendez (D-N.J.), who asked Lighthizer for his account, said he hoped to verify whether Trump’s alleged comments came at the same meeting.

    “I assume it’s the same meeting, and if it’s not, I assume we’ll find out because if it’s true, it shows how clear it is that the administration doesn’t really have any intention of actually solving our trade problems with China,” Menendez said.

    As if Menendez has any spine to sponsor legislation to punish China for their manipulations and start a trade war with them.

  10. Juice Box says:

    Pumps the “Historian” – their ceasefire over that mountain from the 1962 war stipulates no firearms allowed within 2 kilometers of the front line, so sticks and stones….will break my bones.

  11. 3b says:

    I would have a lot more respect for Bolton and his integrity if the book was released after the election. This old coot wanted war with Iran, at least Trump said no to that.

  12. ExEssex says:

    Why after? That’s possibly the most pathetic comment ever.

  13. Fat Fast Eddie says:

    The Bolton book is a bombshell!!! The media goes wild!! Lol! How many bombshells have there been according to the drive by media in the last 3.5 years?

  14. 3b says:

    Ex Essex, because it would not appear like he is trying to push his book. People have made their minds up at this point who they will vote for. If they are waiting to read a book, then that is pathetic. Bolton is a lunatic and wanted war with Iran, I would not put any weight on a book he wrote.

  15. Hold my beer says:


    Plus he has a circa 1985 mustache. Like a villain from magnum p I

  16. JCer says:

    Bolton, is a villain, even if you hate Trump, you cannot deny the man is a war monger. Nor can you deny that Trump is the first president in a very long time to stand up to the PRC in any meaningful way.

  17. Bystander says:


    Here it is a plain and simple when arguing with Insane Orange Clown Posse.


  18. 3b says:

    Jcer:I agree. Bolton pushed hard for war with Iran, and Trump would not agree. I give Trump a lot of credit for that.

  19. chicagofinance says:

    Range of emotions……. damn… too many posts on NJ RE Report. I have no time to catch up….. start reading and scrolling…. the only time I see posts by Pumps and say thank you…..

  20. Juice Box says:

    Last day of school for my kids. Parents are all rejoicing on Facebook this time as we were doing the teaching and now get a break like the real teachers do for the summer.

  21. chicagofinance says:

    A 20-year-old customer of zero-commission brokerage Robinhood took his own life after seeing his account show a negative $730,000 cash balance that may have been merely a temporary balance, according to news reports.

    Alexander Kearns, a resident of Naperville, Ill., was pronounced deceased at a railroad crossing in Naperville by the Will County Coroner’s office on June 12, after he was struck by a train, according to WJOL.com.

    Kearns, a University of Nebraska student who was home from college and living with his parents in Naperville, allegedly took his own life, according to Forbes.

    While all the factors contributing to suicide are impossible to determine, Kearns’ parents found a note on June 12 showing the young man’s despair about the negative Robinhood balance, according to the publication:

    “Tragically, I don’t even think he made that big of a mistake. This is an interface issue, they have slick interfaces. Confetti popping everywhere.”

    “All of us at Robinhood are deeply saddened to hear this terrible news and we reached out to share our condolences with the family over the weekend.”

    “How was a 20 year old with no income able to get assigned almost a million dollars worth of leverage?” the note said.

    Kearns also wrote in the note that he didn’t authorize margin trading on the account, according to Forbes.

    Kearns’ account appeared to have $16,000, but it also showed a negative cash balance of $730,165, the publication writes.

    However, that “may not have represented uncollateralized indebtedness at all, but rather his temporary balance until the stocks underlying his assigned options actually settled into his account,” according to Forbes.

    Robinhood has not released details on Kearns’ account, citing privacy concerns, the publication writes.

    One possible explanation, however, is that Kearns had been trading a strategy known as a “bull put spread,” which involves selling put options at a higher strike price while at the same time buying puts, with the same expiration date, at a lower strike price, according to Forbes.

    As long as the price of the underlying stock is above the higher strike price, the strategy generates a profit, while the maximum risk is limited to the difference between the strike prices, minus the amount earned from the original sale of the puts, the publication writes.

    In his note, Kearns wrote that the puts he bought and sold should have canceled out, according to Forbes.

    But in certain cases, such as when the stock price at expiration falls between the two strike prices, or an early assignment, the bull put spread strategy can cause “wrinkles,” such as showing a temporary debit to buy the stock, which is “not uncommon,” the publication writes. Kearns may simply not have realized that the cash balance would be corrected when the underlying stock was credited to the account, according to Forbes.
    “Tragically, I don’t even think he made that big of a mistake. This is an interface issue, they have slick interfaces. Confetti popping everywhere,” says Bill Brewster, Kearns’ cousin-in-law and a research analyst at Chicago-based Sullimar Capital Group, referring to the colorful confetti Robinhood displays after customers make trades, according to Forbes. “They try to gamify trading and couch it as investment.”

    “All of us at Robinhood are deeply saddened to hear this terrible news and we reached out to share our condolences with the family over the weekend,” the company says in a statement cited by the publication.

    Kearns started investing during the pandemic, signing up with Robinhood, Forbes writes. The company opened a record 3 million new accounts in the first quarter of 2020, according to the publication.

    But Robinhood also suffered several outages on its platform in March, with customers unable to execute trades. The company offered to reimburse some of the customers affected by the outages, but it’s also facing at least three lawsuits over the glitches.

  22. Bystander says:

    Imagine if Obama said anything like this after SC ruling. Sounds like a threat to me. His administration could not follow basic executive procedures so DACA does not get overturned. Guy takes zero accountability and red hat fools will blame Dems.

    “These horrible & politically charged decisions coming out of the Supreme Court are shotgun blasts into the face of people that are proud to call themselves Republicans or Conservatives,” Trump wrote on Twitter. “We need more Justices or we will lose our 2nd. Amendment & everything else. Vote Trump 2020!”

  23. Love MAGA Boomers without masks says:

    MAGA Fake news lovers,

    This is a little early warning of what is hitting the greater Miami area. Back in February/March/April FDNY/EMS calls were hitting daily records.

    This is the Miami-Dade Fire Rescue live active calls https://www.miamidade.gov/firecad/calls_include.asp

    This is everything in Miami-Dade outside of City of Miami, Miami Beach, Hialeah and a couple of smaller cities that have their own Fire/EMS service. They are running double the normal on medical calls when I have checked.

  24. Fast Eddie says:

    I saw these brands in the link below as a tribute to black culture. I view the term “Fighting Irish” and the Boston Celtics as a tribute to another culture. I picture the image of Luigi on a pizza box or chef Boyardee on a can as a tribute to yet another culture. I see the Washington Redskins, Cleveland Indians and Atlanta Braves as a tribute to one more culture. All of these cultures I admire for the uniqueness and brand they brought to our lives. It’s those who claim justice and equality who have destroyed it.


  25. Libturd says:

    I just caught up on about three days here. I have a few opinions to share. I am mainly disappointed in the conversations here on race. So much is misunderstood. There is so little discussion on the difference between the success rate of immigrants and the descendants of slaves and how this effects our perception of black culture.

    First off. The looting and JCer’s interpretation of it not making sense or helping their cause. Peaceful protest is generally a waste of time. It would be nice if it created change, but even you said you were surprised by how little has changed since the end of the civil right movement in the late 60s. The truth is, whether half the population in the country walks out to protest mass school shootings, or million of black men annual walk on DC, or even millions of women don puzzy hats and do the same. Absolutely nothing changes. These protests, and consequential looting (of which was incredibly minor, but blown out of proportion by the right to fit the racist narrative) were not a result of Floyd. They are the result of the unfair treatment of blacks in nearly everything they still experience today. Do you know how completely fukced up it was for the right to complain about Michelle Obama? And did you hear the complaints? It was pure, unfettered racism. I beg you all to read about the Jeter case in Bloomfield. These cases are widespread. This has nothing to do with “training.” There are a lot of ignorant cops. It is not just profiling. Imagine being a black person in Wayne. Where you are regularly followed by cops when driving. Where your children are forced to learn a white-washed history of a country that was significantly built on the labors of blacks. It was nice for someone to mention that our culture has garnered so much uniqueness from black culture. Whether it be our food, our music, and even much of our taste in literature. So much is owned to black culture. Yet the average school system sums up American black history with a short mention of slavery and a primer on Kwanzaa.

    As for opportunities, sure there’s affirmative action and scholarship. But these few opportunities are too little and too late for most poor blacks. And most blacks are poor! I need not discuss the cycle of poverty in the ghetto. THIS is where the change must take place. This is where the whole process fails. Instead, we offer a few scholarships for those couple of nerds who buck the system, instead of making a system where everyone should aspire to be the nerd. Why do so many black men end up in jail? These are the questions that must be answered and changed.

    As predicted, Trump’s refusal to wear a mask, like a badge of honor, is about to turn the rest of the country into the hell we just experienced. Even Gary admitted to how refreshing it was to shop without a mask. What everyone forgets is that this was made possible by all of us wearing masks and staying home when at all possible. The sh1t is hitting the fan in Florida as we speak and it’s coming to about ten more states in the next week or so. It’s so simple. Wear masks and get on with your life. Trump is absolutely the dumbest president ever. He is so stupid that there is no comparison. He is truly in a league of his own. As the world realizes that it is suicidal to hold public events. He is rallying his supporters into the world’s largest petri dish for a political rally, as his supporters prefer the freedom to spread a life threatening disease over the intelligent choice of wearing a mask for protection. Worst of all, this election is over anyway and many of his supporters will end up in the grave rooting for the impossible. Stupid is as stupid does I suppose.

    In other news. I still can’t believe you all keep feeding the troll.

    Oh. For those who are 50 to 60 and grew up in the radius of NYC. You must see 24-Hour Party People. It’s a fantastic documentary about the history of Manchester music from the Sex Pistols to the Stone Roses. It really is incredible how much amazing music came from such a small area. Kind of like Newark, but they were black, so mostly ignored. Chi. Tell me you saw it.

  26. ExEssex says:

    I saw it Lib. More importantly I “lived” it spending one glorious summer with a Manchester Born lass during the early early nineties. 24 hour party people also showed the grim death of an icon, how money gets lost or gained under the best intentions. How the party eventually moves on. The kids of slaves never really got a fair shake. But hey, immma Jew so…. used to be hated. Oh well. You find your friends sometimes.

  27. Libturd says:

    It really took me back to my limelight days. Wasn’t lucky enough to see any of the second wave bands besides New Order. But grew up on the Sex Pistols, Joy Division, Happy Mondays, OMD, James, etc. Had no idea they were all related through Factory Records.

  28. Hold my beer says:

    Hospitalizations from corona are up 40% in Dallas county in the last two weeks.

    2/3rds of them are under 65. 50% have no underlying conditions

    Mayors and county execs are asking governor abbot to allow them to require masks in public again.

    Last two days I was in non Asian public places about 20% weren’t wearing masks. Last week it was about half weren’t wearing masks.

    Meanwhile at hmart today everyone wore a mask and most wore gloves. Some people wore face shields. I saw a few employees wearing goggles and a face shield.

  29. AP says:

    Saw the happy Mondays live in Rock in Rio ’98. Almost everyone had left the festival as it was pouring rain like an open spigot and it was the last show of the night.

    The fee madmen left had a memorable experience, looking at the grins everywhere.

    “The Hacienda must be built”

  30. AP says:

    Lib, the New Order documentary, featuring Tony Wilson in fine form and other peak crazyness, is entirely excellent.


  31. njtownhomer says:

    Just returned a long drive from TX to NJ and noticed masks are not in favor much of the south. Even in western VA. I think the first wave is just starting for them. The wave action is mostly temporal, but I think there is a significant spatial dimension here too. Unfortunately it is politicized so much unnecessarily.

    Brace for large case numbers coming from mostly red states down south. It will probably last for a few months.

  32. homeboken says:

    Masks – drove back from the shore last weekend and had multiple stops along the GSP (kids bladder problems).

    The masks wearing percentage dropped each mile south I rode. Up here in Morris county, everyone is wearing them.

    In Monmouth, I saw 1 in a gas station, a customer. None of the employees. Ocean county, hard to find a mask anywhere. Just my observation

  33. Juice Box says:

    Downtown red bank jumping with outdoor dining, broad st which is the main road is closed off with concrete barriers.

  34. Minor says:

    “These protests, and consequential looting (of which was incredibly minor“

    Minor Damage? You are delusional.

  35. Juice Box says:

    Nobody out wearing masks in Downtown Red Bank tonight, including local cops.

  36. ExEssex says:

    California calls for mandatory masks.

  37. Hold my beer says:

    I think I will be doing all my grocery shopping at hmart. I’d rather pay an extra $10 a week for our dairy items In a place everyone wears a mask and most likely wears masks all the time in public.

    Plus I’m addicted to ramen and frozen dumplings.

  38. Nomad says:

    Good post Lib. In your next life, consider sociology. Maybe Chris Kyle was right.

    Less distancing. People letting guard down. Juice, I thought Red Bank was filled with wealthy and educated. It will ramp again well beyond Fl and Tx. Apparently the pain wasn’t enough the first time.

    BK > $1B supposed to be highest ever. $100mm to $1B may also set record. Courts are going to be clogged. Wonder what economy looks like in August.

  39. 3b says:

    Lib I really don’t think you can call it minor. 25 million in damages in Minneapolis alone. Some people had not been paying insurance premiums because of the lock down, and they will lose it all. Plus the hardworking people including immigrants who have lost jobs, and deprived neighborhoods who have lost stores they depended on.

    The damage is anything but minor. And it’s disgusting that all theses little white boys and girls who took part in the looting return to their lily white neighborhoods. Will they come back to help rebuild?

  40. Minor says:

    Libtard is so delusional he thinks complaining about the damage is racist. What a tool.

  41. D-FENS says:

    Fantastic. Finger on the mutherfcuking pulse


  42. BoomerRemover says:

    The HMart in fort lee won’t let you enter without putting on gloves, which they distribute at the entrance. Not only does everyone wear a mask but produce/product is not touched by ungloved hands.

  43. LurksMcGee says:

    Thank you Lib.

  44. Libturd says:

    Sadly, without the looting, be it major or minor, the leaders don’t listen. And they are hardly listening again, so expect it to be even worse the next time around. You see, without the crime, the white people can ignore the plight. But once your beloved cities are damaged, it stirs you up like an uncooked pancake.

    HMB, same with the Kam Man I was in two days ago. Asians tend to be pretty smart. They know this virus is a, well, a virus.

    The mask thing is 100% political. Trump is going to take a lot of people down with him and it’s absolutely criminal. The devotion to this moron continues to astound me.
    I just spoke with my folks in Palm Beach County FL. She says the old people get it. I said, that’s right, they will get it! She didn’t think I was funny. She still goes to WalMart weekly. I told her that there is a silver lining. I won’t be able to fly down to attend her funeral.

    They should all hang.

  45. Libturd says:

    Just as a sense check, I looked at the 67 riots and the post MLK murder riots. There is no comparison. From property damage to number of deaths. Absolutely no comparison.

  46. Hold my beer says:


    We used to go to Penang’s and then kam man a few times a month. I miss Malaysian food. Haven’t found a Malaysian or Singapore place in my area.

  47. Minor says:


    Oh, So that means the looting it justified. Right. Got it. You are delusional.

  48. JCer says:

    Lib, no we are not at 1960’s style riots but realistically the mostly black and immigrant business owners who were barely hanging on because of COVID have been taken out by this. Some of these people put their lives into a restaurant, coffee shop, convenience store, barber shop, etc. It probably doesn’t look like or sound like much to you or I because we are privileged, not because we are white but because we are well off. To a poor immigrant or someone from the hood who has some initiative scraping up the 20k or 50k to start a store working probably a low wage job is an eternity. These people did not deserve to have their dreams shattered and taken from them.

    The police officers injured or killed in these riots are not viewing them as minor.

    Lib they aren’t really obeying anything in Florida, my mother lives in Palm Beach County. Their idea of social distancing is living life normally but staying 6 ft away. My mother was still having her weekly canasta game. If the government didn’t mandate it be closed they would have still been at the club playing tennis and golf in march and April, I think the governor reopened so I’m sure they are but it is June which means my mother is now in the garden state terrorizing me and my siblings.

    Lib your recollection of history is flawed, the riots of the 1960’s accomplished nothing but misery. The peaceful protest by principled people backed by organized groups with clear policy objectives were able to get real rights and framework for protections secured by law. All the folks who owned those businesses will now be in despair, will they strive and risk again, will they fall back to some bad job? Who knows but both the business owners and the people who live in those neighborhoods are the ones who suffer.

    As for your notions about black history, they are also very flawed/inaccurate. Many districts especially in NJ do a pretty decent job teaching black history. It should definitely be more than slavery, it covers MLK the civil rights movement, usually they cover black scientists and inventors, people like the tuskgee airmen, even some of the history about the large wealthy kingdoms in Africa etc. Slavery first and foremost was only legally recognized in the colonies around 1640-1660, the big case in Virginia which legalized slavery involved a black plantation owner who was importing slaves. The US history of Slavery encompasses about 200 years and only 90 or so years as a country, furthermore only 5% of African slaves sent to the Americas made it to what is now the United States. Most slave labor was used in agriculture in the south and shipping in the north. Slave labor largely did not “build” this country, it was mostly immigrants, first Irish, then Germans, Italians, Jews, Eastern Europeans, etc. Industrialization and emergence of the United states as a world power really begins in the post slavery era.

    As for the Jeter case in Bloomfield it doesn’t fit the narrative of being a racial incident, the cop going to Jail is a POC, looks to be either Puerto Rican or Dominican with very dark skin.

  49. Nomad says:

    Looks like more 737Max problems Than just MCAS that will also spill over into the new 777X.


  50. homeboken says:

    Lib are being serious? Let me see if I got this right:

    Peaceful protests were not getting the answers we wanted. Thus looting, burning and riot violence is justified.
    Then, if anyone complains about the riots/damages/lives lost = RACIST!

  51. Fast Eddie says:

    The present riots appear worse because you have every media outlet in existence ramping up the volume to epic levels. Everything is a crisis, every word is rac1st, every debate is criminal and every counter thought is indignity.

  52. homeboken says:

    I used to think this board was filled with some pretty sharp contrarian thinkers, heck even our host as described the board as such.

    But I am reading post after post that sound like obedient little servants. We all deserve to have our lives disrupted and our cities destroyed because we are either A. in danger of killing ourselves and others via pandemic and
    B. we are all horrible racists and we dont even know it, so we should listen to the enlightened society to tell us how to atone for our historical sins.

    I will never agree with the concept that someone who has never met me, knows all my faults and features. If you think that makes me racist or that makes me priveledged, so be it.

    But as Rick Sanchez said, “Every breath I take without your permission increases my self-esteem.”

  53. Phoenix says:

    But as Rick Sanchez said, “Every breath I take without your permission increases my self-esteem.”

    Until 4 police officers compress that breath out of you without your permission. That increases your chances of not only having no self esteem, but asystole as a replacement.

  54. Phoenix says:

    As someone who has experienced the wrath of an overzealous police force/justice system due to a false allegation I can tell you it is something you never want to go through nor will you ever forget/forgive.

    So personally I am not the least bit surprised about what is happening. It was totally predictable. You wanted a hair trigger punishment system, you have one. Deal with it.
    I’ll just throw another bag of popcorn in the microwave and watch the show.

  55. Fast Eddie says:


    Agree. Repeat the dialog over and over until the masses comply and it then becomes the new normal. How ironic… the new normal. Wear your mask everyone, hide behind it and bow to the rioting swarms.

  56. Hold my beer says:


    Wearing a mask lowers the viral load an infected person releases into the air and also lowers the amount you are exposed to. If people wore masks and kept their distance from each other and washed their hands this pandemic would be waning. The faster the case count drops the faster the economy recovers.

  57. I’m going to cry watching this says:


    Is the man in this video who had his bar destroyed part of the racist right wing narrative you mentioned? Please respond.


  58. ExEssex says:

    Puleeeeaze you simpering fools.
    You seriously didn’t think it’d end any other
    Way did you? Trump is a an unmitigated disaster.

  59. joyce says:

    If people aren’t careful, gloves spread germs easier than bare hands.

    BoomerRemover says:
    June 18, 2020 at 9:32 pm
    The HMart in fort lee won’t let you enter without putting on gloves, which they distribute at the entrance. Not only does everyone wear a mask but produce/product is not touched by ungloved hands.

  60. joyce says:

    I’ll sign up for that strategy. I’d like to reopen businesses too.

    Hold my beer says:
    June 19, 2020 at 10:03 am

    Wearing a mask lowers the viral load an infected person releases into the air and also lowers the amount you are exposed to. If people wore masks and kept their distance from each other and washed their hands this pandemic would be waning. The faster the case count drops the faster the economy recovers.

  61. Walking says:


    The lower the load the better your chances of survival. Hence why we see younger medical workers getting very sick and don’t here about amazon/general warehouse workers getting sick. Yes some of those Amazonians will die but it is the ugly side war unfortunately. We are not seeing large outbreaks in warehouses, which are basically dusty enclosed incubators.

  62. Hold my beer says:


    I will keep wearing my mask when I go to the post office, or grocery store or grab takeout. I believe it lowers my viral load exposure. I wear gloves at the grocery store and rub sanitizer on them before I take them off. I also wipe down my phone, keys, and steering wheel, door handle, and gear lever. I also wipe down the door handle to my house everytime I bring in the mail or a package cause you never know. I open push doors with my foot. I hold a piece of paper if I have to turn a handle or pull the door open.

  63. Libturd says:

    I’ll accept all of the right wingers opinions here on race, though I think there is definitely some ignorance among it. One thing is certain. Little is being done to change the cycle. White people are generally happy letting black people kill each other in our ghettos. Out of site = out of mind. But once a business gets looted or a highway blocked, then they are anti-American.

    Florida Covid cases are now in a parabolic trend. Worst of all, the counts down there are intentionally inaccurate. This is a fact. I thank the right wing for making a mask the detriment of freedom as our parents die for utter stupidity.

    By the way, how do I know Trump has already lost the upcoming election? He lost my mom, who voted for him last time around. She is a lifelong Dem, who like me, hated HRC. If you lost her, you are in big trouble. She called him a moron last night. We couldn’t believe it. It’s gone from, you know he’s not afraid to say how he feels and he speaks to us (his peers), to he’s a moron. Good luck my fellow registered Republicans.

    In other news. I never receieved my VBM ballot. The two registered Democrats in my household did. Hmmm.

    Some good reading for the ignorant.

    Black labor has been foundational to the growth of America and our economy. Enslaved people built the country’s early infrastructure and produced lucrative commodities such as cotton and tobacco. After emancipation, African American labor was crucial in industry, agriculture, and service. Yet the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), which was established in 1884, only started gathering consistent data on African American workers in 1972. For nearly a century, African American workers did not appear even as data points let alone in meaningful policies or labor legislation.

    Black workers have endured a long history of discrimination, including restrictions from unions. Companies used Black workers as strike breakers to misdirect white workers’ anger and frustration. New Deal programs excluded Black agricultural and domestic workers. And 1930s “progressive” public benefits legislation such as the Social Security Act was actually pro-white legislation that neglects Black workers, especially women.

    Historically, African Americans—especially women—have propped up the labor market, despite discrimination and hostility. As far back as 1870, 50 percent of Black women were in the labor force compared to just 16.5 percent of white women. Therefore, the famous wave of women entering the workforce in the 1970s applied only to white women. Black women who’ve always worked have been invisible to policymakers.

    Black workers’ high labor force participation has propelled American economic growth, often at extremely low pay. As the 1619 Project documents, Black slaves enduring brutal conditions for two centuries in Southern plantation and Northern industries to build the booming American economy. In the early 1900s, over one million African Americans joined the “Great Migration” to fill jobs in the steel, automobile, shipbuilding, and other heavy industries. W.E.B. DuBois described this pivotal moment of American capitalism: The giant forces of water and of steam were harnessed to do the world’s work, and the black workers of America bent at the bottom of a growing pyramid of commerce and industry. White employers underpaid and segregated Black workers, subjecting them to discrimination and hostility. We must recognize their labor—whether caring for children or turning out machines in a factory—as important parts of America’s growth.

  64. Libturd says:

    Can’t wait for the rally in Tulsa. I hope they chant a lot.

  65. Phoenix says:

    Just use the hand sanitizer on the gloves, then you have less exposure to the drying effects of the alcohol. No problem doing this and it is just as effective.


  66. 3b says:

    Lib: Trump is a moron is mild. He is a lunatic, and I didn’t vote for him last time or HRC, and I won’t vote for him or Biden in November. If by some wild stretch it looked like the election was close in NJ, I would hold my nose and vote for we need more economic intercourse Biden. I don’t disagree with anything you have stated,accept the looting thing. Many small businesses will never come back from that. I especially condemn outsiders especially whites who came into neighborhoods and engaged in the violence and looting, and then went back to their nice tidy white surburban neighborhoods. How dare they!!

    As for Black Americans being ignored you are right by both parties.
    We had 8 years of Obama, and he had a National platform and from my memory at least, he did not do much to address it.? Look at Chicago, no improvement.

    As well Obama’s past generations in this country is not rooted in Black America s. His ancestors were not slaves, or share croppers,. His parents and grandparents did not endure segregation and lynchings, that is where the majority of Black Americans come from. No one can really understand the massive damage that has done accept the people who came from it.

  67. homeboken says:

    Lib – When you have a chance I would really like to hear your thoughts on school choice?

    It seems like a no brainer to me – Rarely throughout history has the abundance of choice resulted in a worse outcome for the consumer.

    My understanding, is that the Democrats, on the average, are against school choice. I’ve read statements from all the one time candidates and Biden that seem to be strongly opposed to school choice. The reference is that the money would flow to private schools/charter schools. Which seems like an easy fix to me. School choice should be an option for all publicly funded schools. I can see the argument against allowing someone to take education dollars to a religious school or private school. But if a 3rd grader that is going to a failing school in Paterson, why can’t they choose to head a little further east/north and go to a Bergen county school?

  68. Libturd says:

    Home. I am 100% behind it. In NJ, schools and police should be consolidated at the county level.

  69. Libturd says:

    I support charters in cities. Not in the burbs. In the burbs they make Chinese only schools for Chinese kids of rich parents so they can get a break as the local Chinese schools are too expensive. On top of this, it’s a huge business.

  70. Libturd says:

    And wait till you see what the Chasids will do. They are the masters of the loophole. They will build community centers masquerading as schools that will exclude the local goyim even though it’s paid for with tax dollars.

  71. Fabius Maximus says:

    Yes there are all these programs available for people to better themselves. Even that path comes with a significant headwind.


    A lot of people in here as Lib says don’t see it and honestly they never will.

  72. Fabius Maximus says:

    Charter Schools are a bad idea. All they do is strip resources out of the existing schools and make the problem worse. If you cant get your kid to that school every day on your own dime, as busing is not guaranteed. The ones that have lotterys have large loopholes. The ones that test only take the brightest. Kid has ADHD or behavior issues, they are gone. And then their back in the Public system that lost a chunk of funding and a large group of positive role models for the rest.

  73. 3b says:

    Lib: Agree Police and schools should be consolidated at the county level. Westwood in Bergen Co a few years ago was going to turn policing over to the county. The local police went on a scare campaign and convinced residents the town would not be safe,
    And would end up being like the Bronx. I hate when tases Jersey Feckers bring the Bronx into the conversation when they are trying to scare people.

  74. Libturd says:

    Fab. This is all true. But I give the nod to the inner city charters since there is no place else for a kid interested in learning to go that is not completely corrupt in our ghettos (I hate using that word, but that is what they are). Both of my parents were raised in the ghetto till their parents saved enough scratch to get out (step dad and mom). My birth father is a spoiled loser (I already told you all about his dad Gimbels/Corvettes accountant). Fab, imagine being a parent who wants nothing more than their kid use education to get out of Vailsburg in Newark or Greenville in JC. The only option is to send your kid to school with nothing but Bebo’s. When I lived there, the truancy rate was 40%!!! Even Newark last year was over 30%. I don’t care how much we spend on abbott education. If you miss between a third and a fourth of the year, you can’t possibly be interested in learning. The level of corruption in our cities is outrageous. I know, because I know people on the inside. Even when the state has come in and completely taken over the administration of a school system, very little improvement occurs. Why would it? The former corrupt administrators know they’ll be back in power soon enough and the teachers know they will get more favor from them by not working with the state appointees. It’s a truly vicious cycle. In my lifetime, I’ve never seen significant improvement besides the general improvement that coincides with a strong economy.

    I’m friends with the mad man that owns Ironbound Cider. His is a perfect example of how difficult it is to break this cycle. For nearly anyone interested, he provides transportation to Newark residents (mostly excons) who want a real opportunity for success. Not only does he provide them with a pretty decent paying job, he provides them with an educational program as well as three very wholesome meals (meat and produce grown on the farm) as well as all kinds of assistance. Better yet, he provides an amazing work environment out of the messy environment that is Newark. His biggest problem though, is that as soon as he starts paying his workers well, the state comes in an raids their paychecks for everything owed including family payments, parking tickets, liens, etc. They then turn to selling drugs to make ends meet and end up back in the pen. It’s a truly terrible cycle with no easy solution besides forced integration which will never happen. If charter schools allow a fifth of the population who want out a path to get out. So be it. The public schools ain’t getting better. No amount of money is going to change that. And you want to know what it mainly to blame? The NJEA!

  75. Stuart J Weissman says:

    The diaspora back to the burbs is really happening btw. Everyone I know who lives in the city is looking to get out. But this will be short-lived. They’ll be back in a few years.

  76. 3b says:

    Lib: They May be back in a few years, but who knows. What exactly are they going back for, especially if many may be work from home. Of course they will then have to sell the over inflated house even more over inflated because of the pandemic to someone else, who is also work from home. So discount the suburban house and hope to make it up on the discounted NYC apartment? These people farting around with back and forth are will for the most part be north of 40. Will they ever own the house/apartment free and clear? And even if they do there is the hefty yearly tax bill.

  77. 3b says:

    Linda, Linda, Linda,

  78. No One says:

    I liked Libturd’s commentaries better over the past 10 years when he was focused on personal responsibility and self-empowerment advice, rather than playing the racial blame game. Where are your Beebo stories now?

    I grew up with black kids and rednecks mostly. Each group tended to screw themselves up in their own different self-destructive ways. Went to the same school with the same schoolbooks. We had the same 4 tv stations in range. There was nothing but themselves and their attitudes and non-actions stopping them from getting to a better place. The main systemic problem I could see was some people would get hooked on welfare and or disability, and thereafter become a member of the land of lotus eaters (Homer Odyssey reference). It then became easier to get by than to try for more. Blacks tended to have drug problems back then, rednecks had Jack Daniels and beer problems. I think the rednecks have since caught up on drugs. They all have someone else to blame. Blacks have whites and Republicans and rednecks have immigrants and liberals.

    Meanwhile, I see young leftists turning into Mao’s Red Guard, as radical, collectivist, and illiberal as I’ve ever seen, with an appetite for revolution and personal destruction. At the same time, Trump’s followers are the most brutish and anti-intellectual “Republicans” I’ve seen in the past 40 years of following politics.
    Meanwhile, fascist China imagines now is the time to capitalize on the US’ division and weakness, using our current dysfunction to discredit the intellectual/political foundations of the west.

  79. chicagofinance says:

    My single mom was earning $13,000/year as an assistant secretary. I was 11 and it took me 85 minutes (15 walking and 70 on the subway) to get to school. All I received was a 1/2 price subway pass. My brother was the same but he had to get to the old Stuy building, back when Union Square was fuct and you dare not take the LL train.

    You do what you need to do if it matters to you.

    Fabius Maximus says:
    June 19, 2020 at 2:00 pm
    Charter Schools are a bad idea. All they do is strip resources out of the existing schools and make the problem worse. If you cant get your kid to that school every day on your own dime, as busing is not guaranteed.

  80. chicagofinance says:

    My brother applied early to Princeton and was accepted. When he received his financial aid package, they told him that my father would need to pay $500 each year as his contribution. My father’s response? I went to night school at Queens College and paid my own way, why should I give my son $500/year?

  81. chicagofinance says:

    My father was there to study engineering….. he took Philosophy courses as a sophomore elective and then ended up taking random classes, so he couldn’t fulfill any major. He ended up quitting college after 5 years of random classes.

  82. Fabius Maximus says:

    Chi, yes you do what it takes. The buses on my route where the oldest in the fleet. It was fairly certain that 2 or 3 times a year, they would h1ghjack one and set on fire for the riot.

    Here is an interesting piece on Charters. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2014/05/20/a-dozen-problems-with-charter-schools/

    Overall choice does to necessarily mean better. When you introduce profit into anything corners get cut.

  83. chicagofinance says:

    My classmate from Hunter. His Rotisserie Baseball team was Pieser’s Misers. Mine was Louder Than Bombs. Other team names included Marlon Floridas, Ernest Workers, Lee Barons …. pretty much every ethnicity and religion represented in a group as small as only 12. Drafts held in almost every neighborhood in the city as long as there was a subway stop within walking distance. Of course why trust people like us?

    Back to this charter school.
    Everything was fine until DeBlasio took over. DeBlasio and Carranza have systematically attempted to destroy this organization for years.

  84. 3b says:

    Fab Where did you go to school that buses were hijacked once a year?

  85. 3b says:

    Chgo with all due respect your Father was a foolish man.

  86. Fabius Maximus says:

    Here is a great read. It might shed some light onto the points a lot of you are missing.


  87. JCer says:

    School choice is totally needed in failing districts. Again from my time in Jersey City, I can tell you bebo is the one beating up the kid trying to learn. The performance of the local schools is atrocious even though the spend rate is high. The amount of political patronage money flowing through urban schools in NJ is insane, they need to be cut off, Democrats are of course against it because this is how their political machines work.

    No one is disputing that a people who made up anywhere from 10-15% of the population were a big part of the labor force. Discrimination was rampant same as it was for ethnic groups. The goal among the powers that be was to foment tensions between the groups, sowing disunity to ensure they never unit. Quite frankly that is the goal of the current movement. Liberals are nuts of they think disadvantaged whites and other minorities are going to whole hardheartedly embrace the concept of privilege which last I checked was being expanded to include latinos!

    Frankly No One you are not alone in noticing this. I have noticed lunacy building since the re-election of Obama. The closest parallel is 1920’s Spain. Left and Right will begin to fight in the streets, and the politicians will start to secretly or public back their flavor of street thug. The moderates will be forced to pick a side, Communist or Facist. The same happened in Italy, Germany, and Portugal. The economic situation plays a huge part in triggering this.

  88. Fabius Maximus says:


    Don’t want to share in public these days. A lot of the long time posters know. I had a great chat with Clot back in the day on how to navigate a riot. I think he was in a bad part of LA when all the Rodney King stuff went down.

  89. joyce says:

    Here’s a great read. Explains a lot of what Fabius is missing.


  90. chicagofinance says:

    He’s a few french fries short of a Happy Meal…..

    3b says:
    June 19, 2020 at 5:07 pm
    Chgo with all due respect your Father was a foolish man.

  91. 3b says:

    Fab: I am a long time poster, I must have missed it. I have family members who lived through riots not in this country. I just missed a bad one by a day, many years ago, again not in the USA.

  92. chicagofinance says:

    No the point YOU are missing is #1, that story has nothing to do with Charter Schools, #2, the City and suburbs of Boston are one of the most unique animals north of the Mason-Dixon line. One of the most fcuked up racist piles of detritus anywhere. The only reason it has changed in the last 20 years is due to the minting of so much wealth on 128 to POC.

    Needless to say, it is the strong influence of Ireland on the greater Boston area for such intolerance. Apologies to all who I may be netting into that.

    Fabius Maximus says:
    June 19, 2020 at 5:11 pm
    Here is a great read. It might shed some light onto the points a lot of you are missing.


  93. chicagofinance says:

    Bar none, the worst racial experiences I have ever encountered in my life were: in the North End to a homeless person; in the Fens walking with a South Asian guy; sitting in Fenway Park; waiting in a car at a stop sign in Ipswich.

    Those are the top 4, and I have been all over the country.

  94. Fabius Maximus says:


    Be it Boston, NY, Chicago or elsewhere the stories on race and education are the same.

  95. Hold my beer says:

    Corona now the 3rd leading cause of death in Dallas county

    Hospitalizations up 60% in the last two weeks.


    Dallas county is now requiring businesses to make employees and customers/visitors wear masks where 6 feet of separation is not possible.

    I made two stops today and I would say majority of people were not wearing masks. About 80% of whites were not wearing a mask. I even got dirty looks from a sausage sally while I was wearing one.

  96. 3b says:

    Chgo Perhaps it is the history of Ireland, but that’s only part of the story. The WASPS were just as racist if not more so. And the Irish have their own history of oppression, an absolute miserable history. It’s not unusual for the oppressed to become the oppressor. In fact it’s still going on today with people being oppressed by others . In addition the Native Americans who have a bitter history at the hands of the white man. Had no problem slaughtering and enslaving other tribes. And to complicate matters further, some Native American tribes owned Black slaves. No country or people has a monopoly; some worse than others.

  97. Libturd, the Master Beta says:

    Chi, I’m with you on the Boston Irish pride/racism thing. How stupid. I remember when they cursed the black players on the Celtics.

    No one. Sorry if I’m disappointing you. But the stories I’m hearing and reading about locally are mind boggling. I really thought we came a long way in this country. Especially with the election and reelection of Obama. I never saw him as a divider at all. A Democrat, yes. But not a divider. He didn’t flaunt his race, like a Charles Barkley or a Spike Lee. Instead, he did the lords work with the ACA. I really see the divider in Trump though. Heck, he used race in pure Breitbart style to populist election. And yes, I wasn’t raised poor like Chi, but we both had parents who valued education over all else and hard work never killed anyone either.

    Truth be told, I am not falling for the protest sh1t. What has softened me are the stories I hear and read. They are unbelievable. The ignorance is unbelievable. And I would have never believed it, until the populist election of Trump. The racism is there. I know my right wing friends, and I do consider you all my friends regardless of my opinions on your positions. But, racism in this country is real. I only grew out of it from two things. I went to Summer camp with the FAF kids since my parents were so cheap. Two, I roomed with EOF kids my first two years in college in a predominantly black dorm. Trust me when I say, they have it bad. Gator used to volunteer for CASA. Trust me, they have it bad. And if you think overturning Roe V. Wade is saving lives? Think again. There’s gonna be a lot of drug addicted, brain damaged, learning disabled kids to pay for. And when you are done paying their supposed families, you will be paying for their incarceration next. I know, because the kids Gator helped couldn’t add two and two, but they new how to pick locks and hotwire cars. Trust me again. It’s not an easy culture to break out of.

  98. Libturd says:

    I got comment 100 b1tches.

  99. D-FENS says:

    Reparations for black American descendants of slaves is a right wing position. You have been brainwashed to believe otherwise.

  100. Fabius Maximus says:

    And here is your Friday night Drop.


    What could be in SDNY that Donnie needs to hide?

    Answers on a Postcard!

  101. Fabius Maximus says:

    And now as more and more is exposed, the dots will be easier to join.


  102. Fabius Maximus says:

    Oooh, grab the popcorn!


    Hey Gary, I assume you are on board with all this Griftness Greatness!

  103. JCer says:

    3B totally with you on the Irish. They were dominated by the English for almost 800 years. Treated totally as a labor source, denied freedom and to some extent they were a victim of what today we would call ethnic cleansing. So yes they were oppressed not only in their home country but also in the United States when they came. So yes even people who are oppressed are very willing to become the oppressor. One only has to look a the fact that a free black was responsible for getting Slavery codified into law in the colonies. Or the fact that when Liberia was created the newly freed slaves basically recreated the Antebellum South with themselves now as the oppressors over the native tribes.

    Part of the issues with Racism, Bias, etc is that we are tribal by nature. Our very biology makes us instinctively skeptical of people who do not look like us. This very behavior has been observed in animals as well.

    Most of us would not claim racism does not exist, but the severity and true impact to ones ability to succeed is generally low, this is why we keep talking about microagressions. This again does not make it right, this does not mean we should not try to end it, but it is not the issue it used to be. There are more pressing things that need to be addressed in the Black community.

    Lib frankly you are blind if you didn’t see what Obama was doing. He weaponized so many parts of the government against political enemies. He sowed a lot of racial discord instead of promoting unity. He pushed the envelope on presidential powers further than even GWB. Besides disagreeing with some of his policies, what he was engaged in was very problematic and now we Trump in place using the same precedents to do bat sh*t crazy stuff. Again I was a democrat, I voted for him the first time even though he was not my first choice candidate(really who was this guy he had no real track record). He set the stage for what is going down now and it isn’t pretty.

  104. ExEssex says:

    “Trump posted a video on Twitter on Friday night in which he said that Americans who lost their lives to COVID-19 will not have ‘died in vain’ because the economy is bouncing back. On the eve of his first campaign rally since the lockdowns began, Trump struck a positive tone and suggested the pandemic was drawing to an end.”

  105. juice bos says:


    It’s funny how the mayor of Portland suddenly believes in law and order when it has an impact on his personal life.

    “ Demonstrators established an autonomous zone outside what they believe is Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler’s apartment Thursday morning, but Portland police officers moved in quickly and tore down the barrier.

    Portland police declared the gathering a civil disturbance at around 5:30 a.m. Officers entered the area soon after to take down tents and remove the blockade.”


  106. juice box says:

    FAB – Each United States attorney is subject to removal by the President.


    He was interim anyway not confirmed by the Senate look it up.

  107. FYI says:


    June 19, 2020
    Heather Cox Richardson
    4 hr 116 7

    Tonight saw a Friday night news dump that will go into the history books.

    Trump tried to fire the US Attorney from the Southern District of New York, Geoffrey S. Berman, who has managed a series of cases against Trump and his allies, including Trump fixer Michael Cohen, Trump lawyer Rudolph Giuliani, and Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, who were indicted for funneling Russian money to Republican candidates for office. Berman is reported to be investigating Trump’s finances, among many other things.

    It happened like this: Attorney General William Barr issued a statement announcing that Berman would be stepping down and that Trump would nominate Jay Clayton to replace him. Clayton has never been a prosecutor. He is currently the head of the Securities and Exchange Commission, but before he took that position he was a lawyer who, among other things, represented Deutsche Bank. Deutsche Bank is the only bank that would work with Trump after his bankruptcies. It might have given him loans he did not repay, and the Russian money-laundering that landed the bank in legal trouble might have helped Trump.

    Legal analyst and Congressional staffer Daniel Goldman noted that this whole scenario was unusual. Normally, when a US Attorney leaves, that person’s deputy takes over. Bringing in a replacement from elsewhere meant that “Trump/Barr did not want anyone at SDNY running the office—likely because there was a serious disagreement.”

    But then things got crazier. Berman issued his own statement, saying “I learned in a press release from the Attorney General tonight that I was ‘stepping down’ as United States Attorney. I have not resigned, and have no intention of resigning, my position to which I was appointed by the Judges of the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York. I will step down when a presidentially appointed nominee is confirmed by the Senate. Until then, our investigations will move forward without delay or interruption. I cherish every day that I work with the men and women of this Office to pursue justice without fear or favor—and intend to ensure that this Office’s important cases continue unimpeded.”

    What’s Berman saying? Well, it might be that Trump’s preference for “acting,” rather than Senate-confirmed, officials has come back to bite him. Berman was not Senate-confirmed; he is an interim U.S. Attorney. By law, the Attorney General can appoint an interim U.S. Attorney for 120 days. At the end of that time, the court can appoint that person indefinitely.

    Berman was one of those interim appointees, put in place by Trump’s first Attorney General, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions.

    Berman’s appointment raised an outcry because he was handpicked by Trump. The U.S. Attorney for the SDNY oversees Manhattan and thus the president’s businesses and at least nine Trump properties. Trump went out of his way to take the unusual step of personally interviewing Berman, who donated $2,700 to the Trump campaign, served on the presidential transition team, and was a partner at the law firm where Trump’s lawyer Rudolph Giuliani is a member. Democrats vowed to block Berman’s nomination, but never got the chance because Sessions used the workaround so Berman would not come before the Senate.

    Now, this means that because Berman was appointed by the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York, not the president, he apparently cannot be removed except by the court, or, possibly, by the president… but not by Barr. Lawyers are fighting over who, exactly, can remove Berman, but that itself says that any challenge he files will land in the courts for months… likely until after the election.

    And that’s another notable thing about Berman’s statement. He suggests he is being fired because the administration wants to delay or interrupt an investigation, and his language suggests that both he and the administration know exactly what that investigation is. There are a number of reasons the SDNY might be examining the finances of the president or his family, but former National Security Advisor John Bolton suggested another reason in his forthcoming book: he apparently claims Trump assured Turkey’s autocratic leader Recep Tayyip Erdogan he would fill the SDNY with his own loyalists, which would enable him to do Erdogan a political favor.

    As Berman’s predecessor in the job, Preet Bharara tweeted, “Why does a president get rid of his own hand-picked US Attorney in SDNY on a Friday night, less than 5 months before the election?” President of the Center for American Progress Neera Tanden noted: “To attempt a Friday night massacre 5 months before an election means there’s a pretty big investigation they are trying to kill.”

    It seems worth noting that the Supreme Court is about to hand down a decision on whether Deutsche Bank and Trump’s accountants have to hand Trump’s financial records over to Congress and to the Manhattan district attorney, which might well spark legal trouble for the president in New York.

    Law professor Stephen Vladeck also asked us to keep in mind that Barr “out-and-out * lied * in a written statement—and in a context in which there could have been little question to him that Berman would publicly call him out for doing so… And he did it anyway.” “Something * really * stinks,” Vladeck concluded.

    Something else stinks about this crisis, too, and that is the Tulsa rally the president originally scheduled for tonight. Widespread objection to holding a Trump rally on Juneteenth—the historic celebration of Black freedom– in Tulsa, where a race massacre destroyed the Black community of Greenwood in 1921, forced him to reschedule for tomorrow. But had the rally been held, with media focus on disturbances at it and on the spread of coronavirus there, it seems likely that Berman’s firing would not have gotten much attention.

    Indeed, it has seemed all day as if Trump was deliberately stoking trouble in Tulsa. He began today by tweeting a threat: “Any protesters, anarchists, agitators, looters or lowlifes who are going to Oklahoma please understand, you will not be treated like you have been in New York, Seattle, or Minneapolis. It will be a much different scene!” (Americans have a constitutional right to protest.)

    Then he made sure his supporters would be in the streets. In consultation with the Secret Service, the Tulsa police chief had asked Tulsa’s mayor to declare a curfew around the BOK Center where the rally will be held. He did so. But Trump pressured the mayor to rescind the curfew, which the mayor did. Trump tweeted “I just spoke to the highly respected Mayor of Tulsa, G.T. Bynum, who informed me there will be no curfew tonight or tomorrow for our many supporters attending the # MAGA Rally…. Enjoy yourselves – thank you to Mayor Bynum!”

    This crisis feels big. Trump and Barr know an investigation is out there barreling toward the president, and they are willing to take extraordinary steps, steps that undermine our democracy and threaten our citizenry, to stop it.

  108. Crying is cool says:

    Crying is in these days.

    Everyone used to laugh at my dad when he made fun of participation trophies when I played T-ball. He would rant about how we were raising a generation of entitled brats. Well 25 years later he is dead on!

  109. Crying is cool says:

    That’s not fair. It’s all your fault.

    Cries of the current generation.

  110. Crying is cool says:

    Crybabies lives matter.

    Too much time on your hands if you are crying all day about how unfair life is.

  111. 3b says:

    Jcer: Yes the Irish were, not to mention nearly wiped out to extinction at the end of the 1600s, destruction of the native language and much of the culture, plantations in what today is called Northern Ireland at the same time the English were settling the 13 colonies. A disastrous famine that killed more than a million and caused 2 million more to immigrate. The country is still recovering from that both in terms of population and psychologically. My high school European history class went through Irish history in a paragraph and a half.

    Are some Irish racist and Irish Americans of course they are, but are members of every ethnic group. I have been involved in traditional Irish music groups for years, and I can tell you we have people from all walks of life and from every ethnic background playing the music of Ireland, including Black Americans, one of the renowned pipers in our world recently passed away, he was Jewish. One of the best dancers we have is Indian. Another person Korean, adopted by Polish parents, playing Irish music. And they have been welcome. And as far as Irish American Black tension of course there was, two groups bitterly despised by the WASP establishment. But they don’t tell you about the intermingling of the two groups, the close connections, in the slums of lower Manhattan and other areas. The mixing of cultures as shown with tap dancing which has its roots in Irish step dancing. One final point there are a lot of Black Americans walking around with names like Murphy and O Brien that are Catholic, they are the product of Irish immigrants and Black Americans intermingling.

  112. Fabius Maximus says:


    I am aware I had long conversations with Eddie Ray on Alberto Gonzales.

    Here is the best description of this situation I came across.


  113. Juice Box says:

    Fab – off-limits remember? President’s family and his business dealings. The red line was drawn during the Muller investigation.

    Again not to repeat but there is no way they are gonna catch Donnie, he is a C*as*ino mo*bs*ter after all.

  114. Phoenix says:

    Crime- excessive milk consumption. Dude takes milk ration very seriously. Same with partner egging him on.

  115. joyce says:

    Most here will support/applaud and the next day reminisce about all the stuff they got away with in their youth. Police in schools… one of the best ideas ever. Who got detention or suspension back in the day that would have been arrested today?

    Phoenix says:
    June 20, 2020 at 11:58 am
    Crime- excessive milk consumption. Dude takes milk ration very seriously. Same with partner egging him on.

  116. No One says:

    The only stories I’ve been hearing lately is the race activists shouting down and putting down my daughter and taking over the humanities agenda at her fancy high school, which she thankfully has graduated from. For doing anything racist, no, for not being a SJW activist and for liking Kanye West, who is himself accused of not conforming to black thought properly. Kids at her school salivate at any excuse to protest race, class, sexuality, despite being mostly a bunch of pampered elitists. My biracial daughter just wanted to get through school and look pretty, which annoyed the SJW activist girls to no end.

    As for abortions, since I’m not a conservative, I’m totally in favor. I’m thinking up to 500 months in some cases.

  117. Phoenix says:

    “Police in schools… one of the best ideas ever.”

    I respectfully disagree.

  118. No One says:

    I think Joyce was being sarcastic about police in schools. She doesn’t seem to like police much. In a school with a lot of violence, I can see a possible rationale.

  119. SomeOne says:

    No One

    My biracial daughter just wanted to get through school and look pretty, which annoyed the SJW activist girls to no end.

    Girls in high school don’t need any particular reason to get annoyed by other girls. Just saying. It’s probably the only setup more convoluted than politicians and comments sections.

  120. Phoenix says:

    “Girls in high school don’t need any particular reason to get annoyed by other girls.”

    Does not change after high school as I observe every day.

  121. Phoenix says:

    America was already becoming too poor a society to have functioning public goods, like healthcare or retirement for all. Coronavirus is going to seal that fate. America will be poor now — far too poor to ever really make the transition to having decent public goods. Think of that full half of the American population who’s now not employed. How exactly are they going to afford the higher taxes it takes to have a European or Canadian style social contract? They struggled to before — and after Coronavirus, it’s going to be flatly impossible.
    That’s another of depression’s vicious cycles: it makes nations poor, and they end up being unable to afford decent being modern societies at all, places in which people support one another with expansive social contracts, in the end — because when people can barely even afford self-preservation, how can they support anyone else’s quest for a better life, too?

  122. Libturd says:

    I’m watching this rally. If there is anything I can say that might be a positive. It’s that very few people were stupid enough to enter the petri dish. I don’t think there are 3,000 people there. I would say about a tenth of them have masks. What a mess this is going to be.

    It does appear Trump’s presidency is winding down like a dumpster fire.

    JCer. Honestly, what did Obama do to create the mess we are in today? Sure, he was partisan, but that’s par for the course. What seeds did he sow? My issue with him is that he didn’t do enough and wasted an awful lot of time thanking those who got him to the White House. But I don’t recall many scandals at all. Trump can’t go five minutes without fukcing up. He is setting the Republican Party so far back, it may take decades to recover. This Berman thing is unbelievable. He doesn’t even care how obvious his corruption is. He is so done.

    About the only good thing the Right has to look forward to is making fun of Biden’s communication issues. But at the end of the day, he is harmless to the status quo. I expect him to do nothing but continue to support the rich. It’s really a heck of a country for the wealthy. There is absolutely no way to lose.

  123. 3b says:

    Lib: you said it! Biden is back to the status quo. Its more than communication issues, he is embarrassing as well in a different way than Trump but still
    Embarrassing. He is harmless as you say, he won’t know what’s going on most of the time, and he will continue to support the rich like he has done for over 40 years and we can get back to normal.

  124. No One says:

    I think Biden could be a puppet for the party’s new left wing. Who will his VP be? She will likely become president.

  125. Libturd says:

    It’s really horrible. I really hope he gets the covid.

  126. France=Pussies says:

    This past January, the Polish government took the bold step to acquire thirty-two F-35A Joint Strike Fighters (JSF). Poland is becoming a major player in NATO. It is working to modernize its air, sea and land forces. It is also forging closer relations with the United States, hosting U.S. forces, allowing the pre-positioning of military equipment, and working to improve interoperability.

    By making the decision to buy the F-35, Poland will leap ahead of a number of its European allies, most notably France and Germany, and enter the elite group of countries operating fifth- generation aircraft. According to some observers, Poland’s decision to acquire the F-35 means that for the first time since the advent of air power, that country will have a better air force than Germany or France.

    See more at https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/f-35-will-give-poland-more-advanced-air-force-some-major-nato-allies-163192

  127. LouisvilleSlugged DoesWonders says:


    You asked what did Obama did?. I say is what he did not do


    Should have done that to bankers. Prosecute people, break up banks. It was done before with the Resolution Trust Corporation.

    By not doing, everyone saw him as a weakly softie and the opposition took off (birthers/tea party aka bored boomer locust)

  128. Phoenix says:

    Agreed. Let all of the bankers/rating company officials off the hook.
    What a turd.
    Same types of turds that allowed something to happen to Epstein.
    America’s justice system is a joke.

  129. Juice Box says:

    TikTok teens say they tanked Trump’s comeback rally in Tulsa by reserving thousands of tickets then not showing up….

    Don’t believe it? AOC says it’s true.


  130. Juice Box says:

    Never Trumpers too.

    “Steve Schmidt, former campaign manager for John McCain in 2008 and a harsh critic of Mr. Trump, asserted that the Trump campaign was duped by anti-Trump teenagers requesting tickets.

    “My 16-year-old daughter and her friends in Park City, Utah, have hundreds of tickets,” Mr. Schmidt tweeted at Mr. Parscale minutes before the rally was set to begin. “You have been rolled by America’s teens. @realDonaldTrump
    you have been failed by your team. You have been deserted by your faithful. No one likes to root for the losing team.”

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