From the Press of Atlantic City:
More people find refuge with FHA mortgages
The U.S. housing agency created in the depths of the Great Depression is once again doing a brisk business helping stabilize the mortgage finance market.
Demand for loans insured by the Federal Housing Administration is soaring, after years of being overshadowed by subprime, interest-only, no-doc and other inventive mortgage types.
Through July, the number of FHA loans in New Jersey already is 80 percent higher than in all of 2006, according to the Philadelphia office of the FHA.
Drew Fishman, president of the New Jersey Association of Realtors and a broker with Re/Max Atlantic in Northfield, said Monday that FHA-insured loans years ago covered a big portion of home sales, but their popularity fell off as rising property prices exceeded the FHA loan limits.
Then in the spring of this year, the FHA increased its loan limits to provide relief to struggling homeowners and the tight housing credit markets.
“It was very good to have the increases in loan limits,” Fishman said. “It allows more people to get into the market, and more refinancing to reduce rates.”
He said that in southern New Jersey, the FHA loan limit is about $450,000, while upstate, where prices are higher, the limit is above $750,000.
Most of the new interest is coming from distressed homeowners seeking to refinance their existing, mainly non-FHA loans – especially adjustable loans resetting at higher rates.
Of 22,666 FHA loans in New Jersey through July, 13,597 were for refinancings by existing homeowners.
From Bloomberg:
Treasury Said to Invest $250 Billion in U.S. Banks
The U.S. will invest about $125 billion in nine of the nation’s biggest financial institutions, including Citigroup Inc. and Goldman Sachs Group Inc., as part of a $250 billion effort to shore up the banking system.
The proposed cash injections in exchange for preferred shares are part of a $700 billion rescue approved by Congress and follow similar moves by European leaders to unfreeze credit markets by helping beleaguered banks. The other companies are Wells Fargo & Co., JPMorgan Chase & Co., Bank of America Corp., Merrill Lynch & Co., Morgan Stanley, State Street Corp. and Bank of New York Mellon Corp., said people briefed on the plan.
“They’ve decided they need to do something drastic and this is drastic,” said Gerard Cassidy, a bank analyst at RBC Capital Markets in Portland, Maine.
From the WSJ:
U.S. to Buy Stakes in Nation’s Largest Banks
The U.S. government is expected to take stakes in nine of the nation’s top financial institutions as part of a new plan to restore confidence to the battered U.S. banking system, a far-reaching effort that puts the government’s guarantee behind the basic plumbing of financial markets.
…
Some of the big banks were unhappy about the government taking equity stakes, but acquiesced under pressure from Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson in a meeting Monday. During the financial crisis, the government has steadily increased its involvement in financial markets, culminating with a move that rivals the breadth of the government’s response to the Great Depression. It intertwines the banking sector with the federal government for years to come and gives taxpayers a direct stake in the future of American finance, including any possible losses.
Wait ’til FHA goes bust. It shouldn’t be long. The gubmint set this up to be the garbage can after Phony/Fraudy couldn’t be jammed with any more sewage.
All the seller-financed crap is going to deadbeats who enter negative equity the minute properties close. Of course, since the seller finances closing costs & prepaids- via concessions- the borrower has zero skin in the game. Yeah, we all know how well that works out…
The refi program does serve a purpose and has been a lifeline for responsible borrowers about to be poleaxed by an ARM reset.
But the rest of FHA? Just another silently ticking timebomb.
Nice idea, but how do we pay for it? Property taxes? Cutting state spending is obviously out of the question.
From Newsday:
NJ GOP proposes sales tax holiday
New Jersey Republicans are calling for an unprecedented five-week sales tax holiday to stimulate the state’s economy.
The proposal would cut the sales tax in half _ to 3.5 percent _ during the busiest retail buying season, Thanksgiving through Jan. 4. The sales tax in Urban Enterprise Zones also would be cut in half, to 1.75 percent, to stimulate buying in cities.
The proposal would affect any item subject to New Jersey’s sales tax, from restaurant meals to automobiles.
Republican leaders planned to announce the proposal at a Tuesday afternoon news conference.
(2)-
“Some of the big banks were unhappy about the government taking equity stakes…”
Then don’t accept the investment. What? JPM and WFC couldn’t posssibly need that money…could they?
[sarcasm off]
From the Courier Post:
Mortgage lenders slam trust-fund plan
A plan to create an estimated $40 million trust fund to help New Jersey residents who have subprime mortgages avoid losing their homes is instead creating a growing controversy.
Nonprofit housing groups are championing the New Jersey Homeownership Preservation Act as a safety net for homeowners struggling to pay mortgages they can no longer afford, but mortgage lenders are criticizing it as a costly, knee-jerk government reaction that will dissuade lending institutions from doing business in New Jersey.
“Not everybody is going to be able to renegotiate their mortgage and stay in their home. But we want to help as many people as we can,” said Staci Berger, advocacy and policy director at the Housing and Community Development Network of New Jersey, which supports the bill.
“The process being suggested is too costly and too onerous, and it could stop businesses from lending in New Jersey,” cautioned E. Robert Levy, executive director of the Mortgage Bankers Association of New Jersey.
The bill is one of 19 economy-related measures that moved forward last week during the Assembly’s much publicized session on the global financial crisis. The full Assembly could vote on the bill later this month.
It calls for the state to assess a $2,000 fee on any mortgage lender that forecloses on homeowners who have a subprime mortgage. The money collected would go into a trust fund run by the New Jersey Housing and Mortgage Finance Agency, which would distribute it first to nonprofit groups qualified to counsel people facing foreclosure. Remaining money would provide homeowners facing foreclosure with emergency assistance loans and help buy and convert foreclosed homes into affordable housing.
The bill would also require lenders to offer homeowners with subprime mortgages a six-month hold to give them time to renegotiate their loans.
Happy Days Are Here Again!!!
grim (4)-
The proposal will go nowhere, because it might actually help some middle class people.
Middle class people in NJ are expected to pay up and shut up. We exist for no other reason.
Guess Commissar Jon and his minions need to come up with some new programs, taxes and fees to keep us down. We’re getting a little uppity…
What is the PPT going to do about earnings?
PepsiCo Third-Quarter Net Income Declines; Cuts 3,300 Jobs
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aED8Nk.B4aGI&refer=home
HE (9)-
Earnings? What are those?
Clot (5) –
I think it is a PR stunt by the banks. The common does not get diluted. There is no mention of suspension of dividends. Where is the downside to the banks? Buffet got 10% yield on his preferred, we get 5 %.
From CNBC:
Dr. Doom: US Bailout Plan Will Probably Fail
U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson’s sweeping measures to bailout the financial system will probably fail, Marc Faber, editor & publisher of the Gloom, Boom and Doom Report, tells CNBC’s Asia Squawk Box.
The proposed $250 billion infusion into financials is meaningless — merely a drop of water on a hot stove, Faber, popularly known as Dr. Doom says. These measures do not address the fundamental problem.
“What I object to in all the bailout plans in the Western world is (that) they do not address the fundamental problem. And the fundamental problem is overleveraging,” Faber comments.
He adds that the high gearing needs to be brought down, similar to what the Asian financial system had to go through after the 1997 financial crisis.
Clot,
We need to nationalize the snack industry in this country. 3000 people are losing their jobs. Dorito Bailout Bill!
talk is that corzine is the next paulson after OB becomes pres.
14 Max
If that’s the case, then finding a new country to live in is moving to the top of my “to do” list.
1.75% sales tax? If that happens, I am going to Lowes and Home Depot in North Bergen and buying lots of wood. The cost of materials is astonishing. Heck, I will buy all the materials I need to finish the basement in my house. Studs, ceiling tile, light fixtures, paneling.
I was building a radiator cover for my living room, it was over $30.00 for one section of decorative crown molding. One molding! I do not know how people do entire rooms with this stuff.
Bush speaking
can someone see if futures go down?
“The proposal would cut the sales tax in half _ to 3.5 percent ”
Because people always bang-down the doors of stores offering a sale of 3.5%.
Oh, and he will become president. I just hope that when he does he won’t be too radically left. Who am I kidding? The democratic party has been taken over by the bumper sticker talking points “NYU” crowd.
Chi Fi
Cholera? come on now you are going to make me blush…….
when you are ready to have a real debate i am more then happy to have a discussion with you. Lisoosh, myself, and many others have asked you direct questions yet you never seem to be able to answer a question directly?
When you decide to act like an adult and have a real debate, as opposed to acting like a sniveling ivy league alumni who’s convinced of their own superiority, then let me know.
And if you insist on trying to insult me can you at least be entertaining? If that’s beyond a superior ivy leauger like yourself you take a look at some of RE101’s old posts.
#9 – Thanks HEHEHE, I’ve been wondering about that myself for the past few weeks.
Also; I can’t help but notice the yield on the 10yr is up. I wonder what happens when all if the major Western players need to raise lots ‘o cash at the same time?
bush speaking? Does anyone listen to him anymore?
India Call Centers Get Another View of the US
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27171573/
“The Bush administration will spend $250 billion this year to purchase stock in banks”
This is actually a good thing, from my perspective. It means that at least 1/3 of the bailout money will not go toward buying junk loans. Why congress ever got onboard with the idea of throwing huge amounts of cash at the banks without taking an equity stake amazes me.
The the brits booted bank execs as part of their deal to nationalize their banks. Why, oh why didn’t we?
Bush just now: “We will return our economy to the path of growth and prosperity.”
Prosperity? Not so quickly… Maybe growth…..
Let’s imagine for a moment that our country needs to come to grips with the idea that we now have a new place in the world. We are no longer a growing economy. Repackaging debt was a folly and we screwed up.
There are growing economies in the world – China, India. What can we offer THEM is now my question – not what can they sell us.
If we stop borrowing: people, cities, states, the government and rather focus on productive uses of our energy – where are our strengths? What do we have to offer these growing economies besides being massive consumers?
Unemployed people doing what? Pipelines, shipping, communication, solar, (let’s just not have the armaments conversation for now) – what else?
If credit were seriously curtailed – today – and we became a new nation of savers and producers – resigned to our new place in the scheme of things – what can we produce that the growing economies of the world need?
Shore-
“Why congress ever got onboard with the idea of throwing huge amounts of cash at the banks without taking an equity stake amazes me.”
Check the donor lists. There might be some correlation. :)
For those that don’t get big bucks from banks…they just got a ton of pork in exchange for getting with the program
Cindy-
Hyperinflation does not equal growth.
God it is great to be an American today. Free Mark Capitalism is back in style with a little touch of New Deal Govt help.
GM is only giving loans out to people with high FICO scores and good credit is funny. A few years back I bought my wifes GMC Envoy from a GMC/Pontiac dealership that was located in a rich neighborhood. I was paying cash and when I was closing I actually asked the guy howcome at no point did you even try to offer me a loan or a lease. He told me in this neighborhood men lease or get loans for their BMWs and Mercedes. They come here for their wive’s SUVs and their kids Pontiac G6s or Soltices and just pay for them out of checking. How times have changed.
I think Bush meant ““We will return our economy to the path of IMAGINARY growth and INDENTURED SERVITUDE.”
(26)-
“What do we have to offer these growing economies besides being massive consumers?”
Debt, inflation…and a model for how to take a superpower back to the Stone Age?
(28) Clot
“Hyperinflation does not equal growth.”
Say they put a moratorium on further foreclosures and we tried to deal with the inventory we have – stabalized the banks – provided transparency for the derivatives – cleared up some of this mess.
If we went forward without further government intervetions but rather companies – private capital – people – producing what? Where are our strengths? What does this new, humbled America have to offer the world?
Failure it is.
“Some said we should just stick capital in the banks, take preferred stock in the banks. That’s what you do when you have failure,” Paulson told the Senate Banking Committee on Sept. 23. “This is about success.”
http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/top-5/2008/10/12/New-Treasury-Plan
#29 – Jalopnik had some more details on the GMAC restrictions.
From an internal memo from Barbara Stokel;
In the short term, we will limit auto contracts to those consumers who have a minimum 700 credit bureau score, with an advance rate equal to or less than dealer invoice. This means that consumers will be required to make a down payment. In addition, we will restrict approval of contract terms beyond 60 months, except for those customers qualifying for GM-supported 72-month incentives currently advertised.
If you have negative equity in your house and your mortgage is within FHA guideline limits,can you refinance through FHA?
If you have negative equity in your house and your mortgage is within FHA guideline limits,can you refinance through FHA?
Not a problem at all, just write a check for the difference.
#36 Without coming up with the 20%?
Statement from the Fed, Treasury, and FDIC:
Today we are taking decisive actions to protect the U.S. economy, to strengthen public confidence in our financial institutions, and to foster the robust functioning of our credit markets. These steps will ensure that the U.S. financial system performs its vital role of providing credit to households and businesses and protecting savings and investments in a manner that promotes strong economic growth in the U.S. and around the world. The overwhelming majority of banks in the United States are strong and well-capitalized. These actions will bolster public confidence in our system to restore and stabilize liquidity necessary to support economic growth.
Last week, the President’s Working Group on Financial Markets announced that the U.S. government would deploy all of our tools in a strategic and collaborative manner to address the current instability in our financial markets and mitigate the risks that instability poses for broader economic growth. This past weekend, we and our G7 colleagues committed to a comprehensive global strategy to provide liquidity to markets, to strengthen financial institutions, to prevent failures that pose systemic risk, to protect savers, and to enforce investor protections.
We welcomed the steps announced by our European colleagues this weekend to implement the action plan, and ensure financial institutions in Europe can finance economic growth. Today we are implementing our strategy with three important actions.
First, Treasury is announcing a voluntary capital purchase program. A broad array of financial institutions is eligible to participate in this program by selling preferred shares to the U.S. government on attractive terms that protect the taxpayer. Second, after receiving a recommendation from the boards of the FDIC and the Federal Reserve, and consulting with the President, Secretary Paulson signed the systemic risk exception to the FDIC Act, enabling the FDIC to temporarily guarantee the senior debt of all FDIC-insured institutions and their holding companies, as well as deposits in non-interest bearing deposit transaction accounts. Regulators will implement an enhanced supervisory framework to assure appropriate use of this new guarantee.
We are pleased to announce that nine major financial institutions have already agreed to participate in both the capital purchase program and the FDIC guarantee program. We appreciate that these healthy institutions are taking these steps to strengthen their own positions and to enhance the overall performance of the U.S. economy. By participating in these programs, these institutions, along with thousands of others to come, will have enhanced capacity to perform their vital function of lending to U.S. consumers and businesses and promoting economic growth. They have also committed to continued aggressive actions to prevent unnecessary foreclosures and preserve homeownership.
Third, to further increase access to funding for businesses in all sectors of our economy, the Federal Reserve has announced further details of its Commercial Paper Funding Facility (CPFF) program, which provides a broad backstop for the commercial paper market. Beginning October 27, the CPFF will fund purchases of commercial paper of 3 month maturity from high-quality issuers.
Together these three steps significantly strengthen the capital position and funding ability of U.S. financial institutions, enabling them to perform their role of underpinning overall economic growth. These actions demonstrate to market participants here and around the world the strength of the U.S. government’s commitment to take all necessary steps to unlock our credit markets and minimize the impact of the current instability on the overall U.S. economy. The actions taken today are a powerful step toward restoring the health of the global financial system.
“We appreciate that these healthy institutions are taking these steps to strengthen their own positions”
No need to elaborate. Total bunch of BS.
[38],
No mention regarding the demand side of the equation?
#36 Without coming up with the 20%?
Are you asking whether the FHA will guarantee a 120% LTV loan? The answer is no. The borrower will need to do whatever necessary (read: bring cash to the table) to bring that LTV to ~97%. Assuming of course, they qualify.
Hmm, I suppose they could work hard to find the last appraiser standing willing to “hit the number”.
Cindy (32)-
“Say they put a moratorium on further foreclosures and we tried to deal with the inventory we have – stabalized the banks – provided transparency for the derivatives – cleared up some of this mess.”
Putting a moratorium on further foreclosures seems to me an artificial solution that both further weakens banks (what do they do…take permanent impairments on homes they can’t repossess?) and introduces massive moral hazard.
On the other hand, forcing derivatives transparency would be a death blow to the big banks. You’d get the private capital coming in- buying the distressed debt at .01 to .05 USD- but I’d guess the banks’ “rake” in that operation wouldn’t be enough to fully recapitalize.
Any further recapitalization should then be assumed to be viable only at Buffett-like terms. Otherwise, why would private $$$ want to be risked in such jerkwater casinos (oops…I meant, banks)?
No doubt, somebody in Klink’s office is working on a way to refi negative equity.
Perhaps that staff was repurposed away from the cold fusion project.
“cold fusion project”
You mean it doesn’t really work?
wait till corzine takes over for klink.
a house for everyone. includes welfare,food stamp, s8 , folks etc.
Carla of course gets a gig as well.
as soon as sharp gets out,, he gets the housing gig.
Clot – The point I am attempting to make is that we are capable of producing something…What are our strengths?
If we took our energy away from repackaging debt – Consumers refused to go into any further debt – given the huge unemployment numbers we are yet to face – How can we make the best use of what we have to offer? Communications, shipping, pipelines, tourism – what?
This wont come as a surprise to anyone here, but a mew poll finds that 50% of NJ residents want to get out. The main reason – property taxes.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,303159,00.html
More – High prices aren’t the only thing driving people out. New Jersey ex-pats headed in droves to warmer climates, with 124,584 moving to Florida and 29,803 moving to North Carolina. Others (42,459) moved to neighboring Pennsylvania.
That migration depleted the state’s tax coffers of an estimated $10 billion in personal income and $680 million in sales tax, according to the Rutgers report.
Hey, but we got thousands of new illegals to make up the difference!
Scary stuff, especially since we are now headed towards bringing NJ government policy to DC.
chicagofinance Says:
October 13th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Victorian Says:
October 13th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Anybody else have any issue with short sell orders today? Ameritrade would not allow me to short anything :(.
Clotpoll Says:
October 13th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
chi (270)- Somehow, I think an investor wanting to get long on margin today would’ve had no problem at all.
But, hey, that’s just my opinion…
Victorian Says:
October 13th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Chifi, I am almost 90% in cash. Margin should not have been an issue.
Vic: Do you recall what I said to Bost over the weekend? Case in point……banks closed today? maybe they just wouldn’t front you the money….check all disclosures, they may have changed some of the guidelines on your account….
POSTING TUESDAY
Vic: To be clear, these points above a three distinct ones…just a stream of thoughts….I think the main issue is that Ameritrade COULD BE an inferior platform for doing what you propose. You should research to find from experts if there is a difference in execution….not for conventional stuff, but rather the more arcane actvity such as shorting and option activity. Also, most importantly, trading in dislocated markets. At some point, transaction costs become secondary when there is critical loss of access and performance at the most inopportune times. I would suggest research…..
So, should one buy a house now?
NO: NY/NJ house prices will catch up with the nationwide downtrend as unemployment increases sharply with all the banking jobs and bonuses gone. Better wait.
YES: house prices will stay inflated as cheap money and credit is pumped into the system at record speed. Meanwhile USD savings will become devalued by inflation.
Cindy Says:
October 14th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Clot – The point I am attempting to make is that we are capable of producing something…What are our strengths?
Cindy: Don’t sell the U.S. short. Despite some of what is being socialized, you comment inherently underestimates the fact that Americans are on a relative scale incredibly ambitious and hard working. Additionally, if there is a void, we often will have an immigrant come to the U.S. and fill the gap. The economy and society waxes and wanes. We are in the process of recoiling. It is easy to take potshots in October 2008.
Susie Ohman on Opra last night was saying now is the best time ever to buy a house. Everyone should buy one while prices are cheap. Crazy Lady.
The bond market is in confusion today, dealers have not updated their bond quotes from Friday and nothing is trading. Everyone is scared to make first move to sell or buy, everything is in inventor and their are no bids or asks. Almost like they are waiting for stock market to open at 9:30 am before they start quoting.
#47 – Cindy – A good question, and one I was thinking about over the weekend.
Where do we go from here? I think it’s a given that a consumer based economy, based on the acquisition and trade of debt, is a non-starter from here on out.
However, a re-build of an industrial base in the U.S. is going to be a long process. Public works projects don’t generate any real income. IT (programming) requires a skill set that most people just don’t have and aren’t capable of.
So what do we look to?
tosh: people just need to get angry; when people get angry they get resourceful and come up with meaningful solutions…..some of the best music of the last 30 years was produced in the period of incredible malaise in 1991, 1992, 1993…….I expect there to be some very inspired innovations from all walks of life…..we end the era of superfluous nonsense and replace it with reality and substance…..maybe our fingernails may be dirtier, but we will be the better for it….
“Cindy: Don’t sell the U.S. short.”
Chi,
I will. That is on a 50-60% retracement.
So, should one buy a house now?
put on your boots. find a house you can see yourself in for at least a decade, lowball everyone. There is a really negative sentiment out there and sellers are panicking. Work them.Inflation will make your mortgage payment less than your taxes in 10 yrs.
Other alternative is a better one if you have hairy ones and your wife does not complain or provide you with any investment advise. ex I heard on TV that this is a good time to buy.(pretend your Albanian for 5 yrs)
Put your whole DP in GOLD. If it’s 20% or more you’ll buy that same house in cash in 5 yrs with no mortgage.
“Check the donor lists. There might be some correlation. :)”
I’m shocked. Shocked! To find out there is gambling going on in this establishment.
ChiFi,(54)
according to your plan we are well on our way to a recovery based on your historical analysis of music production.
Albani,
I appreciate your input don’t get me wrong but lately you haven’t sounded like yourself. Is everything OK? Please don’t tell me that you are going through a divorce or have invested based on used Bi’s black box modeling?
NJ GOP proposes sales tax holiday
New Jersey Republicans are calling for an unprecedented five-week sales tax holiday to stimulate the state’s economy.
There’s a genius idea. Most people shop online where there’s 0% sales tax, free delivery, and no need to fight for a parking spot, sit on a line, or deal with traffic.
Most of the products we buy aren’t even made in our country, so really, which economy are we stimulating? The middle man big-box stores?
-Richie
Tovarishchi! When does the new Five-Year-Plan come from the Central Committee?
(55) BC – retracement? That is a stock term -No?
I’m not talking about the stock market just now – I am posing questions regarding the US economy.
(51) Chicago – “Do not sell the U.S. short” ….I never will
(53) Toshiro – “So what do we look to?”
(54) Chicago “We end the era of superflous nonsense and replace it with reality and substance.”
I just wanted to know what folks here thought our strengths were…as a nation. It is already acutely obvious what our weaknesses are – Pretend for a moment that creative destruction is at work – what can we create out of this mess?
In the short term, we will limit auto contracts to those consumers who have a minimum 700 credit bureau score, with … consumers will be required to make a down payment. In addition, we will restrict approval of contract terms beyond 60 months…
Where is the credit crunch? Requiring decent credit and an actual down payment is just a return to normal. No credit, no job, no problem, sign & drive, zero down 72 month financing isn’t normal or sustainable.
Of course, car companies will need to start thinking about producing more economical cars and traditionally higher end brands (BMW, Mercedes, etc.) will need to scale back since you will now need more than a pulse and a job at Circuit City to lease a BMW.
What you pay attention to will grow –
If I focus time and energy on what is wrong – that will grow
If I focus time and energy on what is right – maybe -just matbe it will grow…
“what can we create out of this mess?”
Cindy,
Savers?
BTW Every single person I talked to on sidelines and with cash was buying over the weekend. 100%. Short term this bull has legs. Also wife dragged me fridge shopping on Monday and stores were packed. 12% of the people in Nassau County make over 200k a year per today’s Newsday. That is still a lot of firepowder.
(64) BC Bob – Thank you!
I agree 100%. Hopefully, there will be some incentive to save through all of this intervention…
“BTW Every single person I talked to on sidelines and with cash was buying over the weekend. 100%.”
John,
Great news. Thanks for the tip.
Cindy 61
I just wanted to know what folks here thought our strengths were…as a nation. It is already acutely obvious what our weaknesses are – Pretend for a moment that creative destruction is at work – what can we create out of this mess?
The US has some strategic energy and food assets that could be used to great effect if we chose to do so. Think coal and the great plains.
Great news. Thanks for the tip.
What are you saying? Have you made any offers?
Nasdaq is in the red. I knew it. market goes down everytime these kids get in front of cameras. Will they ever learn?
Off to work –
Hopefully, the savings rate will improve and the US will face the truth –
Maybe we will make good use of our chance to set ourselves straight.
“Hopefully, there will be some incentive to save through all of this intervention…”
Assuming one is not under water, and, perhaps still so if one is, the best place for most people to save is by paying extra on one’s mortgage. Take a look at the am schedule. Especially in the early years, a small extra payment in principal can save one huge amounts of interest. THAT is savings. Even at 5% in a CD, one is not getting ahead, not given inflation; then, add the tax hit, fuggedaboutit. Pay down the mortgage folks, it is the best savings vehicle available.
In the alternative, if one is worried about losing one’s home. Do not send the extra payments to principal, at first, and instead, send in extra payments with the coupons. Get a year ahead with the coupons and then start paying down principal with extra principal payments.
“Hopefully, the savings rate will improve and the US will face the truth”
What? That people with Yugo incomes not only wanted, but, for a time, were allowed to finance BMW lives?
Where is the credit crunch?
Quote of the day.
56
Just finished reading Peter Schiff’s Crash Proof book. He recommends gold and dividend paying foreign equity.
My comments:
Gold: it’s already expensive as people have been rushing to get in. It’s a gamble by itself. Even in case the doomsday scenario plays out and gold goes to $2000, the government might decided to tax your capital gains when you sell it.
Foreign equity: might not be a bad idea. You collect a dividend stream in a mix of foreign currencies and are protected against inflation. Ideally you would never need to sell and avoid paying taxes.
Schiff is short on details and just promotes his brokerage firm. Did anyone explore these ideas?
Does that make Paulson Captain Crunch?
Shore 72,
While i agree with that you also want a cash nest egg available for a rainy day. part of saving is having money available for the unexpected so that you dont need credit to cover it.
Or, at least, Captain Credit Crunch.
kettle,
Agreed.
Shore
You’re making me hungry. That used to be one of my favorite cereals.
#65 John: 12 % of the people in Nassau County make over 200k a year per today’s Newsday
And they all work on Wall St John??
In addition to cash for the unexpected, during tight times, I strongly advocate the idea of paying months ahead on standard bills. If one pays for gas using a gas cardd and one sees that the bill is $400 a month, the goal for me would be to have a $1,200 credit sitting out there. It is a buffer for a necessary expense and it can’t be spent to go to the movies or on some other less vital expense. If one is worried about losing one’s job, that is the time to be many coupons ahead on the mortgage. At that point, I would not be concerned with principal, just about being current.
“And they all work on Wall St John”
Some work for Spitzer. Back office jobs, so to speak.
or under the table, as the case may be.
“That used to be one of my favorite cereals”
Ick! It is like solid cotton candy.
85 Shore
I have a terrible sweet tooth.
Lost, With you on the Captain Crunch, may buy a box today just for fun.
Forget Cap’n Crunch…Boo Berry was by far my fave, followed closely by Golden Grahams.
Fiber One isn’t half bad.
You know you are getting old when your breakfast decisions revolve around colon health.
fruity pebbles beats them all! Yabba Daba DOOOO
so if this is a real estate blog are the usual suspects here for real estate or against it? no one here can seem to make up their minds…its all like jilted bitter wives or the girls from sex and the city who complain about not getting what they want then getting what want
dblko 50 Put it out there what do the learned njrereport posters say.
I’m on the wait side(not that I’m to learned).
#91 anarchy1: We are all for real estate here, but at the right price, not the over inflated price (now declining) that you paid in the last few years.
For the longest time my breakfast consisted of;
1 Marlboro
1 Cup of coffee
I really really miss the `boros.
so if this is a real estate blog are the usual suspects here for real estate or against it?
For it when it makes financial sense, against it when it doesn’t. To the vast majority here, the game is more about numbers than wallpaper or countertops.
Personally, I feel that the home buying process should be less emotion and more reason. Difficult to do, I know.
Honey Combs mmmmmmmmmm!
hands up folks for the Wheeee!
Trust me, I’m a Realtor ™.
It is all about the numbers for me.
No choice 3 kids college,retirement,TAXES.
Now the wife on the other hand………
Grim 98 In the running for post of the day.
anarchy1:
Some of us are homeowners and some of us are renters. I bet even a few of us are both.
In my scenario, I own a home and plan to buy another. I’m rooting for a fall in RE prices so I can dollar cost average down on my next RE purchase. I’m not underwater yet on my current multifamily property, but am getting closer by the day.
So to answer your question, some are for and some are against the fall in home prices. Ultimately, if you need to take one side or the other, read NAR for the positive and Roubini for the negative.
For a mixed opinion, stay here. That is the charm of this blog. We don’t call each other names (too often) and tolerate others opinions. We even adore the occasional troll.
Some of us are homeowners and some of us are renters. I bet even a few of us are both.
I’m both! I’m both! (Rent primary, own secondary) What do I win? I was told there would be a prize.
How anyone can afford to have multiple kids in the current economy is baffling. Make sure you treat ’em right for you may very well need to lean on them for financial support later in life.
John,
You mean they earned over $200K LAST YEAR! I would love to know what that percentage is after bonus season this year!
Put my money where my mouth is moving Dec 1st to a 2 year rental.House has no mortgage
3600 SQ ft, in ground pool. Really nice place on just under an acre,nicest neighbor
hood in town,most homes around a mil.That is saying a lot in my area.Under a G a month
friend going to FLA to retire very deep pockets wants me to keep eye on place. Checking my shoes on regular basis!
“Just finished reading Peter Schiff’s Crash Proof book. He recommends gold and dividend paying foreign equity. ”
Dividends will likely have 40% tax rate, once the one-party rule lets the current tax cuts expire in 2010. That’s going to hurt and god knows what additional taxes there will be for foreign investments.
$3.76 trillion handed out in 4 days. impressive!
• France Germany, Netherlands and Austria: $1.8 trillion.
• Britain:$680 billion
• US: $700 billion (add the $480 billion F&F were ordered to buy)
• Spain: $100 billion
Treasury Throws Good Money After Bad
http://www.minyanville.com/articles/MER-GS-C-Paulson-jpm-bac/index/a/19498
“Similarly, the issue today is not one of temporary liquidity, time preferences being shortened out of a temporary risk aversion. The issue is too much debt supported by too little real income. As a result, global time preferences are retreating, risk aversion is growing, and access to credit is diminishing.”
Until that debt load shrinks — until American consumers and businesses alike save, repay debt, save again and repay some more — the merry-go-round of bailouts, capital injections and more bailouts will continue its revolutions.
Unless they’re interrupted by a revolution of another kind.
Stolen from a commenter on Portfolio:
Why doesn’t CNBC hire Ben Stein? With him plus Cramer, Kudlow and Gasparino, it could cover all the bases plus home plate with the four biggest idiots on the planet, with Maria what’s her name in the on-deck circle.
“That is the charm of this blog. We don’t call each other names (too often) and tolerate others opinions.”
Except for the lefties. Those people we call all sorts of nasty things, because it applies. (Clearly, or at least it should be, tongue in cheek).
Stu,
I see your old team is headed for the Supreme Court.
Also, since the Surgeon General gets a uniform http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/3-Surgeon-General-C.jpg , I wonder if Captain Credit Crunch should get one.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gilbertandsullivan/Buxton2006/DSCF0134.jpg
Perhaps like this
Is it me or is there a requirement that every paragraph in every article in the NY Times must either have the word social or a derivative of socialin it?
Mike in waiting,
If you come across anymore of those shoot me an e-mail. i might have to come visit and buy you a beer.
“Until that debt load shrinks — until American consumers and businesses alike save, repay debt, save again and repay some more — the merry-go-round of bailouts, capital injections and more bailouts will continue its revolutions. ”
What kind of un-American statement is this? Live within one’s means? Tosh! As Wila and Betty used to say, “Charge…..it!”
Fiber One isn’t half bad.
I give my dog two tablespoons of this. Helps with butt problems :)
“Is it me or is there a requirement that every paragraph in every article in the NY Times must either have the word social or a derivative of socialin it?”
That or 1) bush is bad 2) M is the same, or 3) vote for O.
“We even adore the occasional troll.”
– That reminds me – RE101, We miss you!!
“I give my dog two tablespoons of this. Helps with butt problems :)”
Now my day is complete, lol.
From the Record:
Drug maker Par Pharmaceuticals to cut 190 jobs
WOODCLIFF LAKE — Par Pharmaceutical Cos. said Tuesday it will lay off 190 employees as part of a restructuring of its generic drugs unit.
The company, which makes generic drugs and branded pharmaceuticals, said it will reduce the size of its internal research and development effort and trim its generic portfolio, cutting drugs that don’t make a sufficient profit. Par had 716 total employees as of Dec. 31, according to Bloomberg News.
Stu,
I knew a guy in college, his folks had him sign a contract that committed him to pay something on the order of 10 or 15% of his gross income, for life, in exchange for their paying for his classes and housing in college. It was a state school with pretty low tuition rates.
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/14/learning-lessons-from-the-panic-of-1873/?hp
File this away for when someone tells you “No one could have predicted this crisis”.
The president explains the credit crunch: bp1.blogger.com/…/s320/george-w-bush.jpg
I here people in the RE business (clot and grim) saying “what credit crunch?” repeatedly. I still do not understand the disconnect between what is happening at the corporate level and what is apparently happening at the consumer level. here is what I am trying to understand:
1. what is the real conforming limit that is playing out in practice for mortgages? Is it really still $417k or is the new higher $729k limit that determines whether you effectively go to a jumbo rate?
2. what is the real downpayment that one needs today for an effectively conforming loan and an effectively jumbo loan? Is it 3% for conforming based on FHA? 10% for non-FHA but still conforming? 20% for an effective jumbo? This point is especially confusing to me.
3. Does going the FHA route result in a higher rate than other conforming mortgages? I would think so, since you would seemingly put down less (if 3% is for real).
Basically, I agree that credit is incredibly loose on the consumer side if you can still get a 97% LTV mortgage up to $729k with a sub 7.0% coupon. Just not clear to me if this is actually available in practice or only in theory.
“No one could have predicted this crisis”.
Of course, that translates into, “No one wanted to stop things whilst everyone was making money.”
grim/richnj: If one of you guys get a chance, can you get me the current taxes for njmls 2843717. Thanks in advance.
“what is the real downpayment that one needs today for an effectively conforming loan”
Skep,
The other question is, with RE prices trending downward, what downpayment does one need to STAY conforming. It may not make a difference to the bank once the mortgage is approved but, to the homeowner, it should mean a great deal.
Off to flogg the staff. Happy market watching.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/24596546
M speaking on economic plan
RayC
Notice the solution in 1873?????
Can we re-elect grant?
Notice that the panic of 1873 also effected europe as well, which makes it an even better approx model for the situation
Shore Guy (122),
Sound like something my parents would have done. When I purchased my Civic 13 years ago, I asked my folks for a loan for part of the DP. They said “no” since I had blown about $1,000 of their money when I was a freshman in college. Had to go to grandma. Her payment plan was $500 per month for 6 months. If I failed to pay, she owned the car.
She from Naples?
M throwing out same old BS. Looks like he ignored my memo. Here comes president O.
Grandma was born in Brooklyn but her mother was a Ukrainian immigrant. Man could her mother cook! Made the best “mommaligga”.
$700 B not used to enrich institutions and people who caused problems.
Use money for people too small to survive not those too big to fail
“Fix housing crisis and help prices rise again” how? Buy mortgages and write down. Uggh!! WTF? Get prices rising again? I sent this guy buckets of cash?
“mommaligga”
I make it too, but always told it was a Uzbek dish.
From MarketWatch:
NYU’s Roubini says $250 bln plan isn’t large enough
Roubini: $250 bln will be ‘first round’ of cash injections
Roubini says U.S. banks may need up to $500 bln
dblko Says:
October 14th, 2008 at 10:04 am
56
Just finished reading Peter Schiff’s Crash Proof book. He recommends gold and dividend paying foreign equity.
My comments:
Gold: it’s already expensive as people have been rushing to get in. It’s a gamble by itself. Even in case the doomsday scenario plays out and gold goes to $2000, the government might decided to tax your capital gains when you sell it.
Foreign equity: might not be a bad idea. You collect a dividend stream in a mix of foreign currencies and are protected against inflation. Ideally you would never need to sell and avoid paying taxes.
Schiff is short on details and just promotes his brokerage firm. Did anyone explore these ideas?
dblk0: I respect this critique and the general action. Find a credible source, siphon only those ideas that resonate and discard what is faulty or possibly stale.
M:
Guarantee all bank deposits
Protect retirees 401k, no minimum distribution
Withdrawals from retirement acts 10%
Keep more savings, attract new investment. Cut cap gains on LT cap gains to 7.5%
Allow cap losses to 15k in ’08/’09, from $3k.
In recent testimony before the Senate Banking Committee, Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson rejected the idea of the US government injecting capital into banks and taking preferred stock, suggesting that such an extreme measure would imply that the US banking system had failed.
“Some [say] we should just stick capital in the banks, take preferred stock in the banks. That’s what you do when you have failure,” Paulson said.
hat tip to min
103 – How can people have multiple kids? I don’t know, haven’t figured that one out yet. I do know a few people who have had to downsize their homes recently as they can’t afford the childcare of 2+ kids but also can’t afford to stay home to watch the kids. Many others I know are totally over-leveraged.
Instead of focusing on middle class, he is making proposals that O will spin as relief for the wealthy.
Stu,
Your guy wins.
103 – And VERY few of the people with multiple kids even know what a 529 is.
Shore Guy, too true. No one likes bad news, blinders on, free ride forever, fingers in the ears, I can’t hear you.
Kettle1 – I don’t see why we can’t re-elect Grant. Why not a body-dead president when we have a brain-dead one already?
M:
No tax on unemployment benefits
Reduce business tax rates.
Shore Guy:
Polls say my guy has won already and by a landslide. I fully expect the maverick to self destruct in the coming weeks. I can’t wait to hear the claims. I’m waiting to hear SP claim that O was Ayers babysitter.
“I can’t hear you.”
Goleeeeeeee, Sgt. Carter, you mean I CAN spend more than I make forever?
Stu:
I expect O to get about 400 EC votes.
I just hope to goodness that he is better than I fear he will be.
“Free Mark Capitalism”
Is that where every con artist gets a free mark? Or is called Mark and gets off scot-free?
@dblko:
We’re going with YES, buy a house now.
For one, the government and big interests are on that side of the equation, using all their available influence (money and guns) to get their way.
For another, we are not getting any younger, and we’d like to live in a house and get out of the crummy little apartments we’ve been in for a decade.
Trading op?
Icelandic Stocks Drop 77% as Trading Resumes After 3-Day Halt
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ay1lXbUqN5Og&refer=home
Grim i totally get where your coming from but lets be realistic at the end of the day its just business…and this unfortuately is a very violent business cycle…and it boils down to supply and demand..so to anyone here if its over priced dont buy? fine i get it..but how many here made a pretty penny flipping a property? no one put a gun to anyones head to sign closing docs..and Grim i doubt you stopped a client of yours from closing when you were going to make a fat commission…and real estate bubble will now be regional again b/c guess what a house in the boondocks in kansas will be peanuts next to a home in an urban area…if theyre people whoare willing and able to pay why bash on them
My comments:
Gold: it’s already expensive as people have been rushing to get in. It’s a gamble by itself. Even in case the doomsday scenario plays out and gold goes to $2000, the government might decided to tax your capital gains when you sell it.
my comment:
Gold is going to at least $5000 and won’t stop until DOW and Gold meet. 5yr period.
Disclaimer: I sit where I stand.
“self destruct in the coming weeks.”
Huh? He is doing it right now. Here we are, right before a debate, and he is attacking O, and restating the same ol’ same ol. He has missed an opportunity to make a bold statement, to throw out an economic October Surprise. He squandered the weekend, he is squandering today. This is the 4th Quarter, with 10 minutes left, and Michigan is up 35 to 7 against Akron. Is it possible to score 28 points in a single quarter? Sure, but it is unlikely, given what has already happened. It is time for some 15 yard passes to the flats and he is continuing to run off center.
Oh my gosh. At the end of M’s rally,they are playing “Start Me UP.”
How ironic, especially the line “You make a grown man cry.”
@Stu:
She’s no spring chicken, but that Maria is always worth watching.
On mute, that is.
Everyone feared cigar Clinton all the way to the bank. Even as he raised income tax rates and created a surplus. Although it is true that there is no way to prove that he had anything to do with the prosperous period that occurred during his term, we were all far happier with him in office then the father of the present moron in chief! From an economic standpoint, it sure feels a lot like 1991 again, doesn’t it?
Let’s see how the O man does. I really doubt he will cause more damage than W.
Gold is no less volatile then the stock market. It is not safe, at all.
Well, enough of this. I will watch the debate but, it looks like it is time to get to the parking lot to beat the traffic.
Stu,
I truely do hope that O is amongst the best presidents we ever had. We need it right now. I am just not going to hold my breath. I am getting that Ned Beatty, in Deliverance, feeling about O: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSrBfjaWkPc
“Gee, your wallet sure is purty.”
make money Says:
October 14th, 2008 at 9:31 am
ChiFi,(54)
according to your plan we are well on our way to a recovery based on your historical analysis of music production.
Albani,
I appreciate your input don’t get me wrong but lately you haven’t sounded like yourself. Is everything OK? Please don’t tell me that you are going through a divorce or have invested based on used Bi’s black box modeling?
A: I think what you are seeing is my strong divergence from the majority view on the board. I am willing to listen to all viewpoints, but some people post some serious nonsense in an authoritarian style and it bugs the %hit out of me.
There is a fundamental lack of appreciation for the difficulty of the task at hand. It is easy to lob tomatoes and spew vitriol, but I actually think that we are incredibly lucky to have Bernanke and Paulson in charge of this situation.
By some stroke of dumb luck we have absolute experts in both monetary policy and the capital markets who have unparallel qualifications to deal with the task at hand. Putting aside the anger, fear, disappointment, and sense of violation, these guys are who you want in charge. Do I entirely trust them? NO WAY. Are they going to enrich themselves and their cronies? VERY POSSIBLY. How is this situation any different than every day of the week?
What you hear from me is that I find the complaining ringing hollow…let’s move forward and figure out how we can flatten our competitors……you already spent the last several years placing yourselves in a strong competitive position….adapt to the playing field once it becomes more apparent what the rules will be….save your energy to strive for excellence….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR84ez1pvvc
wrong clip.
What I fear under president O:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gLN3QoN-q8
“Squeal like a pig middle to upper middle class whilst you pay for my expansion of government”
Saw this at the gym yesterday – Julian Robertson on CNBC talking about how most Americans are absolutely broke and want to save but the pols don’t want to let them.
Oh and he sees a 10-15 year recession, which, if allowed to play out, will make the nation stronger –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRuPhB-2PUE
A question for the Fed experts,
If the Fed can create huge amounts of money right now just for the purpose of propping up banks (and this does not affect the federal budget) whay can’t the FED then inject, say, $5 trillion into the system witha requirement that it only go to loans for long-term energy and transportation infrastructure improvement loans? Why put any such improvements “on budget?”
Hey gun nuts, Maltz is doing a bankruptcy aucion of a gun collection with min bid of 7,500. My big questions exactly how do you get a gun collection off a broke guy without him shooting you.
http://www.maltzauctions.com/auction_detail.php?ID=392588
Walther
Models: P38(9mm); GSP(22 Cal.); P38(9mm)
Smith & Wesson
Models: 52(38 Special); 28(357); 41(22 Cal.); 25(45Acp); 57(41 Magnum)
High Standard
Models: 103(22 Cal.); Sport King(22 Cal.)
Colt
Models: 1911A1(45Acp); Cobra(38)
Luger
Models: 1923 Commercial(30); 1906(9mm); P08(9mm)
Browning
Model: 1910(380)
Ruger
Model: Mark 1(22 Cal.)
Astra
Model: A-75(9mm)
Raven
Model: L25 (25)
Bauer
Model: N/A (25)
Ket 113 How about 4 bds 2.5 baths for 1300
no re fee. Nice home good neighborhood. I’m in it now.I pay 1100 but I know he wants 1300 now.
The catch 22 of our system is that federal aid will cover 100% of your tuition if you are qualified. However, if you parent makes enough money where you qualify for zero financial aid and then they refuse to help they screwed you twice.
Shore Guy Says:
October 14th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Stu,
I knew a guy in college, his folks had him sign a contract that committed him to pay something on the order of 10 or 15% of his gross income, for life, in exchange for their paying for his classes and housing in college. It was a state school with pretty low tuition rates.
From Bloomberg: Icelanders Sink Under Foreign-Currency Loans as Krona Plunges
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=am95H4YHyr50&refer=home
Looks like Icelanders took out mortgages and car loans in foreign currency. Why did Wall-street not think of these for US sub-prime borrowers? They just came up with option ARM’s. Lame! It’s like, we just give shotguns to borrowers to blow themselves up, while banks in Island went nuclear. I’m impressed. Instant “game-over”!
Page 3 today’s newsday says 12.5% of Nassau earned over 200K last year. However, median income is only $89,782 in Nassau. So there are a lot of have nots in Nassau County.
Mike NJ Says:
October 14th, 2008 at 10:37 am
John,
You mean they earned over $200K LAST YEAR! I would love to know what that percentage is after bonus season this year!
3B (125),
Current Year (2007): $9,530.46
I’ll send you an email with sales history as well.
Rich
[166] John
Very carefully.
#172 Rich: Thanks. Is that 2007, or 2008??
60: If we took our energy away from repackaging debt – Consumers refused to go into any further debt – given the huge unemployment numbers we are yet to face – How can we make the best use of what we have to offer? Communications, shipping, pipelines, tourism – what?
Go Green. As in “eco-friendly”.
3B (175),
It says 2007. I figure the tax info isn’t updated yet as 2008 taxes (a guess) would have started around mid-year.
PS Check your email.
Rich
What you hear from me is that I find the complaining ringing hollow…let’s move forward and figure out how we can flatten our competitors……you already spent the last several years placing yourselves in a strong competitive position….adapt to the playing field once it becomes more apparent what the rules will be….save your energy to strive for excellence….
I hear you. But since everyone knows that I put 80-85% of my life savings into GOLD and the main reason is that I don’t trust the GOVERMENTS from all around the world not just USA. They will print currencies whenever there is pain coming up and sooner than later investors from all around the world will get tired of this and run to the only currency that held it’s own throughout the history of civilization. GOLD.
I’m not supporting competitors I just don’t trust anyone to do the right thing.
161#, chifi, please don’t cite my black box model for any use including as an contrarian indicator. by the way, I posted here last weekend i was long s&p and financials.
> based on used Bi’s black box modeling?
Got MAULED for Cap’n Crunch last night…
Brought home a box half-eaten, went to the horses and goat, gave the goat some handfuls, she was INHALING it….
The bone-heads bee-bopped over to us and maulin’ me for Cap’n Crunch like it was rock cocaine… even picking up little cap’n crunch particles on the ground with their prehensile lips…
spam:
Youtube it next time!
Costco in Bridgewater….for sale.
The bldg…Costco (tenant) is locked in for 11 more yrs plus 3 5yr renewal options.
Me thinks somebody done played their hand wrong.
BC Bob Says:
October 10th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
If the market is up on Monday, I guarantee Bi shows up and tells us he got long today.
Once again my man you were right. Only it took him until tuesday.
Bi you’re as predictable as Hank.
I watch Europe for the latest News. They still report it. In the US, News is a cross between Creating It, and a Soap Opera. Walter Cronkite must be rolling over in his grave. I almost welcome a Depression, if they would lay off all the News Creators, on all stations. I also think Voting Polls should be banned, or Elections cancelled in favor of the Poll. Why waste money on predetermined results. Our Society is Dysfunctional.
I think someone must have downloaded that annoying ‘peanut butter jelly time’ song at little Gators day care because he won’t stop singing it. Now I can’t get it outta my head!
It’s peanut butter jelly time, peanut butter jelly time, peanut butter jelly time
(Chorus:)
Where he at 4x
There he go 4x
Peanut butter jelly 4x
Do the peanut butter jelly, peanut butter jelly,
Peanut butter jelly with a baseball bat 2x
Stu…
I will. I got one horse who sticks his nose into the plastic cereal bag which is a tight fit…so when he inhales, it sucks in, and then blows out tight when he exhales…he’s hysterical because the whole time he’s trying to figure out how to get those @#$% crumbs…
It’s like watching a junkie lick the bag…
In looking at my area I noticed some interesting numbers come out this month (I look at the MRIS data). This data is collected from the MLS, so please be aware that it doesn’t paint a complete picture.
I noticed that for Bowie, MD there was a hefty decrease in months of volume from the previous month. Previously, I was looking at 10 months of inventory which dropped precipitously to 7 months. This seems like good news and heralds a step in the right direction for housing recovery (maybe we will see markets stablize in the next few months…).
I caution people that may get swept up by this new data. I looked into the underlying data and was able to determine that there were very slightly increased sales last month with a drastically reduced amount of new listings. For Bowie, MD I noticed 27 sales and 31 new listings but the total number of listings dropped by 60+. This means that people are giving up trying to sell their homes in this market.
Some people caution that this “shadow market”, homes that remain unsold but are not listed on the MLS grows larger and larger and this months data lends more support to that idea.
Sales are up, listings are down…do your own research.
Spam.. I could only imagine the visual.
Shore is the campion in today’s posting competition:
42 Shore Guy
16 grim
10 Stu
9 Clotpoll
7 Mikeinwaiting
7 make money
7 kettle1
7 John
7 Cindy
6 HEHEHE
Oh dear, he’s counting posts again.
Kind of like rain-man, only with really mundane savant abilities.
RE: 189
Shure is variously colored and has notched or fringed petals?
Anybody in the Jersey City/Hoboken area check out that Linens N Things by the A&P? They start having a out of business sale yet? I could use some sheets, towels etc
190#, counting? if you cannot create this list in less than 1 minute, you are not qualified as an IT professional.
>Oh dear, he’s counting posts again.
bi Says:
October 14th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
190#, counting? if you cannot create this list in less than 1 minute, you are not qualified as an IT professional.
If you did that at work, that’s time theft Dwight…
Shore…
I read yesterday the back and forth about Obama and McCain and how you feel.
One thing you wrote is you feel many people are voting for Barack-O because they “like him” and how that didn’t turn out so well under Bush Jong-Il…
I just wanted to say I like Barack-O because he gave a schitt about “small” people back when he didn’t have to… whereas McCain never did any community work, AFAIK…
So, yes….liking Barack-O for his “attitude” towards people who sometimes wear T-shirts that have a towing company logo or don’t care if their pants match their shirt when they go to the store is paramount, to me.
I’m better off than 1/2 the country. Self-made. You’d think I’d feel like only the hardest working deserve any benefits…
Unfortunately, as I see it, there will always be a 1/2 of us on the bottom 1/2…. :)
And it’s my duty to help those who are below me to give them a hand up.
I don’t see McCain, standing at the top rungs of society, holding his hand out to those of us below him. I see McCain trying to step on people to get even higher.
Barack, I see him climbing, too… but I see him looking back at us below him and him yelling words of encouragement to help motivate us to climb higher…
Just some musings.
How can the DOW be in the red, did they spend $250 Billion already? Or is it that they didn’t spend, uh, deploy it.
Isn’t that something you negotiate in advance? Like, here’s $25 Billion Citibank, under these conditions. Or is it better to just give it away, and then mention in a press conference later what you think they SHOULD do with it?
On the subject of parents paying for college…
I asked my mother for money to go to college and she replied “Is 20$ enough to get there?”. She literally thought I needed gas money. I knew right then that things had gone all wrong in the plan I had formulated.
194#, RayC, most posters here are doing multi-task. if you couldn’t take 5 minutes off for fun, that would be a boring job
S&P,DOW,NAS all red, O bother.
SEAN get ready for the wheeee!
#193 – We all remember your rant on this from a few months ago, and are terribly impressed with your cat grep and wc skillz.
Your ability to recognize movie references, not so much.
“S&P,DOW,NAS all red, O bother.”
Yup…Bi’s box is working perfectly as usual.
“Your ability to recognize movie references, not so much.”
zing!
“Kind of like rain-man, only with really mundane savant abilities.”
Perhaps we should call Bi ‘lame-man’?
200#, stu, i checked back your posts last Thursday. seems you were very savy by getting out SRS friday morning if you really did. but a lot of folks here are pure gamblers.
Heading straight for recession every talking head today.Job losses 1-2 mil according Blinder of Princeton. Calling for bigger stim & lower rates. This is a Prof from Princeton, O dear we are screwed.
Roubini is back on Bloomberg 24 month recession:
http://www.bloomberg.com/avp/avp.htm?N=av&T=Roubini%20Predicts%20a%20Recession%20That%20May%20Last%2024%20Months&clipSRC=mms://media2.bloomberg.com/cache/vDHgWim6Nh8U.asf
Hope someone else has TV on CNBC M & O s economic guys debating policy. Be afraid!
RE: $200K income for Nassau county.
That’s household income, not individual income.
From the Newsday article:
================================
Census data shows that 12.5 percent of Nassau County households and 8.2 percent of Suffolk County households earn more than $200,000, compared with 4 percent of U.S. households.
…
median income is $89,782 in Nassau and $83,447 in Suffolk…
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-litax1412023932oct10,0,5421170.story
=================================
One parent loses a job, and that McMansion PITI becomes quite the burden.
Bi:
Want to see savvy?
Increased my SRS position significantly just before close yesterday.
Only made 20% today. Life goes on ;)
An interesting view into Nassau county’s residents via DWI arrest mugshots:
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/ny-nassaudwimugs3-pg,0,2551504.photogallery
Scary.
#177 Rich: Thanks. I was thinking of throwing in a low ball. I want to wait and see if they lower the price to 399K, which I believe is the next leg down for that house.
Women don’t work in the tony neighborhoods?
Qwerty Says:
October 14th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
RE: $200K income for Nassau county.
That’s household income, not individual income.
From the Newsday article:
#210 John:Women don’t work in the tony neighborhoods?
I have a feeling that might change going forward.
Whoa! Roubini wearing a tie!
http://media2.bloomberg.com/cache/vDHgWim6Nh8U.asf
What does this mean? End of times? Bottom? Armageddon?
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081014/as_volcker_recession.html?.v=1
Tall Paul says US facing a considerable recession.
From 213,
UGH.
“I’ve seen a lot of crisis, but I’ve not seen anything quite like this one,” Volcker said in a speech in Singapore.”
Funny but I notice in the high income households the wive’s don’t work a lot. I mean if you husband is pulling in 800K a year and works from 7am to 8pm five days a week and sometimes on weekends and can’t help you with house or kids at all are you really going to a puny 100K job which after taxes leaves you 60K and after childcare and commute leaves you zero dollars. Plus school, soccer, girlscouts, boyscouts, plays, religion etc some parent has to be there at least once in awhile.
3b Says:
October 14th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
#210 John:Women don’t work in the tony neighborhoods?
I have a feeling that might change going forward.
John please let me know where these women are geting 100k jobs? As my wife would like one.
lesson of the day. 100k job = puny. thanks, john.
John are you for real or just that out of touch with the rest of the world?
Hey, after taxes and commuting costs why work at all?
John’s an elitist!!!
John, you missed the last part of the post: “One parent loses a job, and that McMansion PITI becomes quite the burden.”
Male or female is irrelevant.
Volcker:
“These kinds of measures — government guarantees and interventions — are really distasteful,” said Volcker, who was Fed chief from 1979 to 1987. “However distasteful, I’m afraid they were necessary in this emergency to restore some sense of stability and confidence.”
More like an A**hole. First time in any post ever I have called anyone anything, but it is what you are all eluding to so if the name fits wear it.
223 JOHN that is.
John’s world is worthy of it’s own blog.
http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/tedspd/tab/1
TED @ 4.4,
Over a trillion is looses and they think that 250B will do it. The banks need more Hank.
Where’s the bazzoka when you need it.
Stu the question is, is it real life or just fantasy. I’m leaning towards real more the pity.
#212 – His NYU page has him in a “sexi Nouri” pose-down.
Truly, these are the last days.
can anyone get me a listing history on this property
22 CHERRY LN in upper saddle river, NJMLS #2843883
thanks in advance
So, is it just me or do these wild swings in the stock market remind anyone else of the death throes of our economy?
It’s got to be a little of both.
Remember when Bush senior actually went to a supermarket and was mystified by the amazing creation of the price scanner?
I felt similar pity for him as well. Then I went and puked.
Outof stater 230 yes, stu 231 shows one of the reasons why. This guy was our President
no clue how the people he represented lived.
Thought some of you might like this story. Some guy purchases a house and the monthly payments are about 2x his monthly income. Somehow he never misses a payment but still gets foreclosed.
Don’t lenders have enough foreclosures to worry about?
The lender is NJ based so some of you re pros might be familiar with them.
OOS: “So, is it just me or do these wild swings in the stock market remind anyone else of the death throes of our economy?”
Some might call it capitulation (the classic sign of a market bottom or top).
How will a sustained loss of jobs affect the attitude of the miserable b!tch who seems to work for every customer service department I’ve ever needed to call?
We had a nice 661 point downhill ride today on the rollercoaster. Those folks over at CNBC will just have to wait another day to wear those DOW 10,000 hats.
Tom they can do that, he was paying? So who knows maybe he was running coke. Strange indeed.
Within the last two days, two close friends of mine (not on Wall St.) have gotten the pink slip. Lot’s of semi-retired people are going to try to go back to work as well. Do what you must to keep your job for as long as you can. This could well get very ugly, very soon.
Make said it best “Over a trillion in losses and they think that 250B will do it.”
That trillion is dramatically understated.
And the prime option arms are just starting to reset.
Fun times are ahead for sure.
Clot,
I’m with you, I’ve been wondering about Ginnie Mae for a long time.
At a speech Barney Frank gave a couple of weeks ago, he took some questions. One was about how the bailout would address low income lending to minorities. He said that those will be handled by FHA.
The response was very short and unemotional, not very Frank-esque. Maybe I’m putting too much of my own thoughts into it… but I kinda picture him really wanting to grab that chick by the shoulders and shake her, yelling “WTF!?!?!? house prices and dropping like a rock and low income people want to purchase houses!?!?!?”
Probably not what he was thinking though. I sure as hell was.
A stay at home wife is worth 130K a year so just mail a check to clotpol for 30K and your wife will be down to 100K.
My brother came up with a theory 20 years ago and I have been conducting a 20 year case study. My friend, relatives, co-workers, neighbors etc. who got married as DINKS where the wife planned from the get go to always work seem to all earn the same household income as the single income dads with the stay at home wife. My theory is that when the dad gets 100% of the stress of being a breadwinner he is more ready, to work harder, brownnose, speak at conferences, network, volunteer for projects, attend any company event, donate to any company fundraiser etc. as he is scared he is providing 100% of the income for his family and he needs to double his income as quick as possible from the first day of marriage as he first has to replace his wife income to just break even. My brother said the day he got married his wife made 50k and he made 50K and they needed 100K she threw the boulder on his shoulders to get to 100K asap or else.
Mikeinwaiting Says:
October 14th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
John please let me know where these women are geting 100k jobs? As my wife would like one.
Mikeinwaiting,
It was a stated income loan and apparently his broker stated his income at nearly 7 times what it actually was. The details are in the link.
It’s really odd. No charges filed for fraud and no IRS inquiry has been reported.
Even I like the term “puny 100K” almost as good as “pos cape”
Maybe I could say that in BC the most a puny 100k income is going to get you is a pos cape.
Tom I read the link but he was paying so why were they looking for trouble, Hmmmmmm.
John I think you missed the point some men hear are hard pressed to make 100k & you think it is to little to be worth it for a wife. Come on you don’t really think everyone rolls the kind of numbers you throw
around
here 244
[215] John (and BC) are right. At some level, the 100K job is puny, and the wife is working just to cover the added costs.
First, every dollar she earns is taxed to the max. No graduated levels–the marriage penalty still exists, regardless of what you have heard. So for fed w/h, FICA/FUTA, and state (city?) w/h, you may be north of 50% in tax witholding.
Second, costs of working: drycleaning, commuting, lunches out. For a potential trophywife, is another 50K a year out of the question?
Add them together and wifey is working for nothing.
Second, added costs to work.
Nom how about to eat does that count as a reason for a wife to work. For people who aren’t in your tax bracket it is a necessity
not optional & they don’t get taxed to death as there income is not that high.
Mike,
That’s what I don’t understand either. From what I can gather it was a either a negam or interest only loan and rates will reset in 3 years.
Maybe the lender is not expecting the borrower to be able to pay when it resets and would rather foreclose now and try to sell because they don’t expect the market to be better in 3 years?
Tom Like I said strange. He is paying leave it alone. Stupid move by lender oh well been a lot of that going around the last few years.
make,
when did you jump into gold, early 2000’s?
all i have to say is a heart felt congrats. you are a smart man.
Stu @ 3:36pm — False. A myth created by the NY Times:
http://www.snopes.com/history/american/bushscan.asp
Mike
But John’s point is for people in a much higher income bracket. For us lowly types, 100K is a big deal. However, when one’s income is closer to a mil, how much does 100K mean to that person? Certainly not us much as it does to us po’ folk.
Oh and Mike I also agree about the guy getting foreclosed even though he paid. Maybe they thought it was cheaper to foreclose now then wait til his mortgage reset and deal with it later.
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — CIT Group CIT 5.53, +0.95, +20.7%) said late Tuesday it will sell about $8 million in common shares to pay dividends on its preferred stock in December. It also said it will pay a quarterly dividend of 10 cents for common stock on Nov. 28 to shareholders of record on Nov. 14.
I thought CIT was broke now they are paying dividends and issuing stock?
whtch those supply chains….
Icelandic Shoppers Splurge One Last Time as Currency Woes Reduce Food Imports
After a four-year spending spree, Icelanders are flooding the supermarkets one last time, stocking up on food as the collapse of the banking system threatens to cut the island off from imports. “We have had crazy days for a week now,” said Johannes Smari Oluffsson, manager of the Bonus discount grocery store in Reykjavik’s main shopping center. “Sales have doubled.”
Bonus, a nationwide chain, has stock at its warehouse for about two weeks. After that, the shelves will start emptying unless it can get access to foreign currency, the 22-year-old manager said, standing in a walk-in fridge filled with meat products, among the few goods on sale produced locally. Iceland’s foreign currency market has seized up after the three largest banks collapsed and the government abandoned an attempt to peg the exchange rate.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&refer=home&sid=aVFtDRGwcc50
I’m pretty sure that it is not legal to forclose on someone who is abiding by the terms of the contract or even trying to abide by them.
It sounds like the mortgage company is asking for income verification on a lie that was propogated by the mortgage broker.
In this case it would be easy enough to write them a letter back stating that “English is a second language” and they trusted a mortgage broker who provided false information. The job that was listed on the mortgage application does not exist.
In light of the on-time payment of the previous xxx months to the mortgage company, they are seeking a waiver for having to provide income verification according to the terms of the mortgage.
In the event that a waiver cannot be obtained they should seek free community legal council to keep from being forclosed on.
The key with mortgage companies is to keep things as simple as possible. Keep the emotions (whining) to a minimum and just state the facts.
I am dealing with my mortgage company right now because I vacated the home (job switch) and the terms of my mortgage state that I have to use the home as my primary residence or the remainder of the loan will become due.
This is the substance of the last letter that I wrote them,
“I am writing to ask for an extension of the waiver for the right to vacate my home. I am not able to sell my home in the down market and continue to make reliable on-time payments.
In the event that an extension of the waiver is not available please advise on further options.”
Simple, to the point, three sentence letter and BINGO I have another 6 month waver on the mortgage.
Qwerty…I give up! I puked for nothing.
Depends on age and drive. If you are like my cousin who is a cop or my other cousin who is a fireman when they got married there was not much they could do to improve their income.
But if you were a glorified clerk punching the clock lets say at Chase when you got married you could easily started your employer paid MBA, started nextworking and pushed for a promotion then as soon as you got promotion quit and go to a consulting or Goldman like place pushed again and at the end of 10-12 years land at place three as an SVP.
In reality must people don’t like to work and are lazy, another cousin of mine is lazy, he graduated in 2001 with an accounting degree, he did not want to commute to city or study for CPA or do public accounting, he got some bs job in a bank as a glorified clerk, then he went to wamu in the department that processed mortgages for a raise and from there he was let go in Jan 2008. He is still unemployed but since his wife makes ok money he milked the whole six months unemployment. He still “claims” he is looking for a good paying job on Long Island in banking that is not to far from his house with good parking!!!! Yea and I am looking for the holy grail I wonder if it is in my crawl space. He knows I could pick up the phone and get him a job but he won’t want to do 55 hour a week busy season in big four and sit for his CPA for the next four years to make manager! So in my opionion he ain’t looking
Mikeinwaiting Says:
October 14th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
John I think you missed the point some men hear are hard pressed to make 100k & you think it is to little to be worth it for a wife. Come on you don’t really think everyone rolls the kind of numbers you throw
around
Lost I am well aware that at that level it makes no sense.It is disconect with most of America that amazes & yes, angers me.
Not to bust but did you read my post on new rental, wife is dancing in the streets.
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Federal Reserve policymakers announced Tuesday that they had authorized an unlimited temporary reciprocal currency arrangement, or swap, with the Bank of Japan. The arrangement is aimed at providing dollar assets to financial firms that need the currency to meet their obligations. Identical arrangements were set on Monday with major European central banks.
As a woman who works outside the home for a “puny” $100K job (OK, a little more than that, but whatever), I cannot imagine staying home, even if my husband made a lot more than he currently does. What if something happens to him? Where does that leave us?
My brother-in-law lost his job. His wife hasn’t worked since the first of 3 kids was born 10 years ago and isn’t employable in times like this. Sure, yeah, she was home and raised the kids. But what good is that if they are hovering on the edge of bankruptcy because they have no savings and credit card debt? By the way, my brother-in-law made great money – they just always found ways to live beyond their means.
John I work 6 days a week every week. Yes some are lazy but most don’t have the opportunity.
Jackson believes that, although “Zionists who have controlled American policy for decades” remain strong, they’ll lose a great deal of their clout when Barrack Omama enters the White House.
Jackson warns that he isn’t an Omama confidant or adviser, “just a supporter.” But he adds that Obama has been “a neighbor or, better still, a member of the family.” Jackson’s son has been a close friend of Omama for years, and Jackson’s daughter went to school with Obama’s wife Michelle.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/the_o_jesse_knows_133450.htm?page=0
Jackson believes that, although “Zionists who have controlled American policy for decades” remain strong, they’ll lose a great deal of their clout when Barrack Omama enters the White House.
Jackson warns that he isn’t an Omama confidant or adviser, “just a supporter.” But he adds that Obama has been “a neighbor or, better still, a member of the family.” Jackson’s son has been a close friend of Omama for years, and Jackson’s daughter went to school with Omama’s wife Michelle.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/the_o_jesse_knows_133450.htm?page=0
Jackson believes that, although “Zionists who have controlled American policy for decades” remain strong, they’ll lose a great deal of their clout when BO enters the White House.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/the_o_jesse_knows_133450.htm?page=0
John, interesting theory about men being extra-motivated when the wives don’t work. I think it makes a lot of sense. I’m not sure I see it in everyone I know in families where the man is the sole breadwinner, but I see it in some.
Somewhat unrelated, the women I know who make more than their husbands treat their husbands like garbage. It’s a sad sight to see.
lostinny Says:
October 14th, 2008 at 7:59 am
14 Max
If that’s the case, then finding a new country to live in is moving to the top of my “to do” list.
I’m currently living outside the country. If you are serious I would suggest Germany. Except for the somewhat bad weather it has everything you could want.
John 258 –
Your cuz sounds like most of my college classmates, graduated in ’99. Wonder if it is a generational thing?
I don’t worry about losing job cause I got some hustle and flow going on.
259 MIke
Gotcha.
And yes I read your post. *steam spouts from ears*
265 Jersey Jim
I’ve contemplated Germany for a long time. However, I hear the unemployment there is far worse then here. And people are resentful. I’m not sure I want to go from the frying pan to the fire.
lostinny-
Earlier in the year the unemployment rate was over 8%. Berlin is double that. I don’t think Germans are resentful- it is just a different type of mentality and a bit harder to get to know people. Merkel also knows what she is doing.
CF: By some stroke of dumb luck we have absolute experts in both monetary policy and the capital markets who have unparallel qualifications to deal with the task at hand.
I think you are giving too much weight to individuals because of their personal accomplishments in prior life. Remember in each financial investments it says, “Past performance is no guarantee for future results”.
Nothing personally against the Ben or Paulson, they both lack street smartness. All their efforts in instilling confidence haven’t done anything. You could be very smart and intellectual, but there is something called as selling that these guys lack.
I think they missed few big opportunities, namely,
1. Speaking to public and accepting the fact that Fed and treasury messed up big time.
2. Telling people truth that though this bailouts will help temporarily, every US citizens will have to contribute.
3. Giving people hope that these bailouts are not for wealthy only. Lot of that can be done by delivering proper message.
4. Tell the world to help us. We helped them during their crisis, they must help us in ours. If they don’t, you find your friends and foes.
It takes guts to admit being wrong. That is one of primary weakness of current administration.
From Property Shark, on foreclosures:
http://www.propertyshark.com/mason/components/blogcenter/pdf_report.mas?id=26
Hobocondo 260 – Amen Sister! Not that I want to start up this conversation on here again, but…
Am in the same boat and am tired of being judged for it. Especially with this economy, I am glad that we have the hedge of 2 incomes in case one of us is laid off.
And if we both manage to stay employed during this downturn, then hopefully soon Stu and I will have 2 homes, Lil Gator will not have to sell his soul to Satan to finance his college education, and we will set an example for him as to what hard work and savings can accomplish.
#219
“Hey, after taxes and commuting costs why work at all?”
to get the “make work pay” tax credit from Mr. O
#225
“John’s world is worthy of it’s own blog.”
John’s world is an offshoot of Frank’s world from “Blue Velvet”
#240
“My theory is that when the dad gets 100% of the stress of being a breadwinner he is more ready, to work harder, brownnose, speak at conferences, network, volunteer for projects, attend any company event, donate to any company fundraiser etc. as he is scared he is providing 100% of the income for his family and he needs to double his income as quick as possible from the first day of marriage as he first has to replace his wife income to just break even. My brother said the day he got married his wife made 50k and he made 50K and they needed 100K she threw the boulder on his shoulders to get to 100K asap or else.”
that is what happened to me. and my wife majored in women’s studies!
I actually know two guys who are stay at home husbands and don’t have kids. That is progress.
[247] Mike,
Hard to follow your syntax, but I think I get your point. I assume food is covered by the primary wage earner, who in John’s example is earning $800K. So no one in John’s house is starving.
In my example, taking a 100K salary for a total household income of 900K gross in John’s example, and assuming no other deductions. Couple is in the top tax bracket, which under O will be 39.5%. Add to that, with surtax, 8.5% for payroll taxes, and another 9% for NJ income. That comes to 57%, leaving 43K as take home pay, assuming no other deductions.
Now, what is wife’s cost to work? Commuting, expensive lunches, extra makeup, dry cleaning, shoes, etc. In Manhattan, do all these things come to 43K a year? Don’t know. Lets assume not, and say commuting cost is $350 per month, dry cleaning is $40 per month, additional costs for food and sundries are $300 per month. That takes out another $8280, leaving wifey with $34,720, and probably less if it is Manhattan.
Now, does couple have kids? What does day care cost? Let’s take a conservative approach and value the cost of an au pair. Assuming program costs, weekly stipend, and food/utilities, that is anywhere from 20K up. Lets assume $20k (add 10K if they need another car for au pair to drive kids around) and that leaves wife at the end of the day with 14,720, and if the au pair drives, less than $5K per year.
That is about $13 per day. So, yes, you are right, there is something left over for food.
[274] skep
Great, there is a visual. I can see John at my house, yelling “lets f*ck. I’ll f*ck anything that moves.”
[275] skep,
Obviously, she paid attention in school. Was that degree called a BA or an MRS?
[276] Skep,
Did the at-home dad thing for awhile after grad school. It was like being a pariah.
Not so much from the dads; they were cool. But to the other moms, you didn’t exist unless they needed something heavy picked up out of their car.
When privatization of social security was proposed a couple of years ago, one of my main concerns was that Washington would be under even more influence from Wall Street than it already was then. I was somewhat relieved that the trust fund would be kept segregated from the private sector.
Now, these new government equity stakes in Wall Street are raising my concerns again. As this becomes more widespread, every decision in Washington will have to pass the litmus test of how it will affect the value of these assets.
Will ordinary people have any political power, say, 10 years from now.
grim (136)-
This is just foreplay. Klink & co hasn’t even broken out the Vaseline yet.
Bend over and brace yourselves!
Shore (148)-
Fear. Fear a lot. He will suck to infinity.
My guess is that it won’t be 30 days before he starts pumping serious jack into the welfare state and launching the final assault on what’s left of the middle class.
“Did the at-home dad thing for awhile after grad school. It was like being a pariah.
Not so much from the dads; they were cool. But to the other moms, you didn’t exist unless they needed something heavy picked up out of their car.”
#279 Nom– that is interesting. I always fear that the stay at home dads are like Shaft among the SAHMs
Chi (161)-
With all due respect, this is a little hard to do when the rules change every week:
“…adapt to the playing field once it becomes more apparent what the rules will be…”
interesting analogy from Mohammed El-Erian from PIMCO this morning on Squawkbox. he said banks would be like public utilities post-bailout. getting low, regulated returns. so I am not personally afraid that this bailout will turn the gov’t into a fleet of investment bankers. I think it will actually be more like the reverse. although I’m sure many here would disagree
amen (Clotpoll 284)
How can one invest in this market when the government can intervene at any time and cause wild fluctuations in the market.
I was considering buying bank stocks at some point, but now it seems that any equity stake would just keep getting diluted.
And, shorting is even more risky with the possibility of sudden SEC rule changes.
About the 401k’s and social security discussion:
Only what gets produced by the economy can at any given time used to feed the people, including the elderly. It’s just a matter on how to distribute it.
With social security the government takes in taxes and uses some formula. With 401k’s it depends somewhat on each individual investors luck.
The problem I have with the 401k scheme is that:
1. it’s a scheme to funnel money into the stock and bond markets and Wallstreet is happy to make a commission
2. society can pretend temporarily that they are not longer responsible for the elder generation, since it’s every investor on its own
3. investors that were unlucky in their investment choices are just going to be in need to be bailed out by the tax-payer in the end again
In both systems it’s up to the tax-payer in the end. The 401k type system just has the added benefit to make some bankers rich on the way.
26, cindy
trees. natural resources. at a tender age i had an indian emigre vent at me that americans didn’t realize what vast natural resources we have. it stuck in my head, as the stories from indian mythology are all about vast forests and damp jungles, but my mental picture of modern india is kind of… dusty.
61, what we create:
we tell stories. we sell hope. our streets are paved with gold. it’s powerful stuff.
50/92: i’m waiting. i have a big enough down payment to cover 20% if we could find a house that cost 3 times our annual income. since we can’t find that, we don’t have much choice (if we want to be prudent… shame that word sounds so much like “prude”)
103: stu, kids:
you ain’t kidding. i know social security won’t be around for me, and now i’m nervous about our 401ks. i’m starting to consider the 4k (4 kids) retirement plan. i hope that will be enough that at least one will be/marry a doctor, and one or two can be deadbeats. maybe one could be a pirate. i’m flexible.
chifi(161) –
“By some stroke of dumb luck we have absolute experts in both monetary policy and the capital markets who have unparallel qualifications to deal with the task at hand.”
I would have to vehemently disagree with that statement. I know it is easy to take potshots at them. But these guys kept their rose colored glasses on when most of the reputed economists clearly saw the writing on the wall.
April 20, 2007: ‘I don’t see (subprime mortgage market troubles) imposing a serious problem. I think it’s going to be largely contained.’
>
July 12, 2007: ‘This is far and away the strongest global economy I’ve seen in my business lifetime.’
>
August 1, 2007: ‘The market has focused on this. There’s a wake-up call, and there’s an adjustment to this repricing of risk, but I see the underlying economy as being very healthy.’
>
February 28, 2008: ‘I’m seeing a series of ideas suggested involving major government intervention in the housing market and these things are usually presented or sold as a way of helping homeowners stay in their homes. Then when you look at them more carefully what they really amount to is a bailout for financial institutions or Wall Street.’
>
March 16, 2008: ‘We’ve got strong financial institutions . . . Our markets are the envy of the world. They’re resilient, they’re…innovative, they’re flexible. I think we move very quickly to address situations in this country, and, as I said, our financial institutions are strong.’
>
May 7, 2008: ‘The worst is likely to be behind us. .There’s no doubt that things feel better today, by alot, than they did in March.’
May 16, 2008: ‘The fiscal stimulus will provide support to the economy as we weather the housing correction, capital markets turmoil and higher energy and food prices. .Although we are still working through housing and capital markets issues, and expect to be doing so for some time, we also expect to see a faster pace of economic growth before the end of the year. .In my judgment, we are closer to the end of the market turmoil than the beginning. Looking forward, I expect that financial markets will be driven less by the recent turmoil and more by broader economic conditions and, specifically, by the recovery of the housing sector.’
>
July 15, 2008: ‘If you’ve got a squirt gun in your pocket, you may have to take it out. – If you’ve got a bazooka, and people know you’ve got it…you’re not likely to take it out.’
>
July 20, 2008: ‘I think it’s going to be months that we’re working our way through this period, clearly months. .Of course the list [of difficulties] is going to grow longer given the stresses we have in the marketplace, given the housing correction – but again, it’s a safe banking system, a sound banking system. Our regulators are on top of it. This is a very manageable situation.’
>
August 10, 2008: ‘We have no plans to insert money into either of those two institutions [FNM and FRE].’
September 7, 2008: ‘In July, Congress granted the Treasury, the Federal Reserve and FHFA new authorities with respect to the GSEs, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Since that time, we have closely monitored financial market and business conditions and have analyzed in great detail the current financial condition of the GSEs – including the ability of the GSEs to weather a variety of market conditions going forward. As a result of this work, we have determined that it is necessary to take action. . Based on what we have learned about these institutions over the last four weeks – including what we learned about their capital requirements – and given the condition of financial markets today, I concluded that it would not have been in the best interest of the taxpayers for Treasury to simply make an equity investment in these enterprises in their current form.’
>
September 15, 2008: ‘Moral hazard is something I don’t take lightly. . I never once considered that it was appropriate to put taxpayer money on the line in resolving Lehman Brothers.’
>
September 19, 2008: ‘We’re talking hundreds of billions of dollars – this needs to be big enough to make a real difference and get at the heart of the problem. This is the way we stabilize the system. . If these efforts result in a net cost to the taxpayer, it’s a better bet than the alternative. . I am convinced that this bold approach will cost American families far less than the alternative – a continuing series of financial institution failures and frozen credit markets unable to fund economic expansion.’ .
>
September 23, 2008: ‘We need to work as quickly as possible; we need to get something done. We believe that our plan, and the plan that we developed with congressional leaders and worked so hard, is a plan that works. And we need a plan that works.’ .
>
October 8, 2008: ‘We have no time to waste in implementing the new law. . One thing we must recognize – even with the new Treasury authorities, some financial institutions will fail. . But patience is also needed because the turmoil will not end quickly and significant challenges remain ahead. . Neither passage of this new law nor the implementation of these initiatives will bring an immediate end to current difficulties.’ .”
I have removed the links which point to the sources of these quotes. For all the sources go to –
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/bailouts/index.html
Now, some would say that you cannot make truthful pronouncements on the economy because it would scare people. But, nothing prevents you from preparing for the eventuality. And clearly, no preparation was done – the evidence is the plan-a-minute approach.
277 Nom – Let’s leave John’s World and enter the real world. Husband makes around 100k and wife earns about the same for a total of 200k. Commute in from inner suburb and walk to work from Penn – total commute of $155/month. Brown bag your lunch (husband is cheap :)). Corporate casual back office requires no dry cleaning costs or fancy makeup.
Lil critter attends excellent local day care for total cost of $1,000/month. $5,000/yr of which is not subject to taxes.
Additionally husband’s company offers crap benefits and wife’s company offers excellent benefits plus no contribution defined benefit pension.
Would this wife be better off spending her day at The Little Gym and the playground?
DDo you know where I can get a list of short sale properties?
Also, I completely understand that there is no point in playing the blame game. But, how can we trust the same people who got us into this mess to lead us out.
They still think that the problem is falling house prices and the solution is to prevent them from falling. The problem was excessive liquidity and an orgy of credit. I still believe that the problem right now is not liquidity but the lack of trust. Banks do not trust their peer’s balance sheet. We must let weak banks fail and prop up the truly strong ones.
Now, they have started listening what wise people have been saying all along, but Paulson is still favoring his cronies by not diluting the common.
The first thing the banks should do is suspend their dividends and the CEOs should announce that they would work for $1/year. This would go a long way towards regaining the public’s trust.
My 2 cents – would appreciate any corrections/alternative theories.
chi (161)-
I’m in the Jim Rogers camp. Last week, he called them both morons.
Little harsh and radical opinion, but worth listening,
Global Imbalance – An imminent Dollar Crisis
maria (291)-
http://www.realtytrac.com
#292
I just find it hard to believe that a bunch of slobs on a blog (us) could figure this out and Princeton economists and Wall St CEOs haven’t (Bernanke and Paulson). I think they understand the underlying rot in the system. It has been evident and growing and well publicized for decades. But the truth is (as I see it) that there are no obvious solutions short of going back to the stone age and starting over. So we are working with what exists and trying to make it incrementally better.
On the other hand, I think most members of Congress actually do not get it; I doubt Mc-M gets it; Mr. O might get it and if W paid attention at MBS he maybe sort of gets it, but on the whole, outside of Treasury and the Fed, our elected officials I think are mostly in the dark.
HBS, that is
#297
HBS?
Hilary Business School?
Skep –
Greenspan/Bernanke could have chosen to prick the housing bubble a whole lot earlier by raising interest rates faster and earlier. But he actually has a statement saying that housing prices are a reflecting of our strong economy.
I am not sure as to what the motivation for this statement was, but this fall could have been softer and we are much worse off.
Combine the reckless deregulation mantra of the congress for the past decade with low interest rates and lifting of limits on leverage for the 5 IBanks, and we have the perfect storm. Honestly, I hope that our country gets back to its pre-eminent position in the world, but that hope is getting lesser by the day.
BTW, I did not figure out this mess by myself- but by reading convincing arguments by contrarians (at the time). The problem is that this administration just refuses to listen to anyone who contradicts their view.
Hopefully, the next administration will allow greater flow of ideas. BTW, the Paulson plan has had no effects on the TED spread – LIBOR is not based on a hard numbers, but on the opinion of a cartel of banks.
Clotpoll,
Thanks for the info on realty trac-but I have found their info to be out of date.
Do you have any other suggestins.
Mr Mortgage – Time to Get Your Bailout!
Vic– but as I’m sure you know, the problem does not go back just ten years, but really decades. It’s like Venice— we built a magnificent city on a sinking island. Yes, it would be great if we had thought through the long term implications when we went down this road, but we didn’t and now our great city is sinking. So do we just say screw it and let it fall apart or do we try to keep it going for as long as possible? I think that is the real choice here. Eventually, it seems to me, it is inevitable that we are truly f’d. So I sort of think our best case scenario is to delay as long as possible.
Toga, toga, toga
Nom 277 But the primary wage earner doesn’t make 800 k a year in the real world so the wife works.Need 2 cars anyway, works close to home not a 100 k a year job. It is needed for the family to survive. That what gets me he has no clue I hope you do.I can paint all the pictures I like & throw around 100k a year jobs like garbage if I really thought the real world worked that way. Maybe yours does & god bless, but for 90% of America my scenario is the real one.
#260- hobocondo
“I cannot imagine staying home, even if my husband made a lot more than he currently does. What if something happens to him? Where does that leave us?”
i know it’s just personal opinion, but there is no way i’d live my life in fear of something “happening” to my husband and therefore sacrificing the opportunity to spend the time with my kids when they were small.
when i quit a quite high paying job to stay home with my kids, i bought a very large life insurance policy on my husband, naming myself as beneficiary.
Are you read for the Wheeee!
Crisis in Wheeee!
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/confidence
Pelosi, Schumer, Dodd & Frank supported Bush in pushing for the first bailout legislation, because they knew that they were a key cause of the problem. Unfortunately, like with CEO’s, Government Officials are High Reward/No Risk. Honest Mistakes, Stupidity, or Larceny are papered over. The O’Reilly/Barney Frank interview was a classic case of Deny,Deny,Deny.
grim 308 in mod
Taking about dual income.
Isn’t it strange that with all the progress we have made in technology that people still have work so much to make a living?
I mean, we have machines for everything now. From coffee machines, washing machines, electric stoves to automated factories and thinking machines (computers). If people worked say 10 hours a day a 100 years ago to raise a family, considering all the progress in technology, it should just take 30 minutes for an equivalent worker of today. But it seems to opposite became reality. Now both parents need to work to make it.
“PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION: ONE GIANT FRAUD”
http://tinyurl.com/4txzoq
“Report: New York City to shed 165,000 jobs
The city comptroller’s office now projects the city could lose as many as 165,000 jobs over the next two years, more than double the figure it gave in July”
http://tinyurl.com/3red7l
ok, for you smart blokes out there..
how do you short New York and long Chicago?
whoever gets it right, first round of drinks and stogies are on me.
SAS
(drink = scoth)
report to me in the am..
I need to get some icy hot at the drug store… sore today.
SAS
pretty weak for john to say 100k is puny. what’s funny is that out of college when i was making 30k i was struggling, then 40k life was good and at 60k i was able to save considerably – enough to put 5% down on a flip in another state while living in nyc.
now im making considerably more (and my wife makes about the same) but living in bucks county where all our expenses are cut. of course we’re not spending … we’re saving like fiends because with no kids for a few years, who knows where the money is going to come from 5-10 years down the road.
100k for the husband of a married couple with no kids is HUGE. beyond huge. now i’m not sure what 100k is like when you have 2 kids and you’re saving for college and the wife isn’t bringing home any cheddar. that’s a bit scary to even think about, so i’ll avoid it and continue to save.
Yesterday, Clotpoll, 295 — 1. Immediately draft legislation to place the US back on the gold standard. As an adjunct, would also look to engage allies in convening a conference to reverse and/or update the Bretton Woods agreement.
Today, Trichet, (Bloomberg) — European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet said officials reshaping the world’s financial system should try to return to the “discipline” that governed markets in the decades after World War II.
“Perhaps what we need is to go back to the first Bretton Woods, to go back to discipline,” Trichet said after giving a speech at the Economic Club of New York yesterday. “It’s
absolutely clear that financial markets need discipline: macroeconomic discipline, monetary discipline, market discipline.”
Clotpoll, If I may say so, under irrational pretense, you have the most logical mind.
It seems Trichet is as logical as you are, although a little slower.
Stu’s original financial goal was to make 30k by 30. Oh to be young and innocent again.
Bernanke
blogspot
The comic that was linked @ bigpicture was awesome. Here’s a link to the original:
http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2959
waiting – too bad you haven’t been around to hear all of Clot’s calls. i know this is ‘just a blog’ but that dude, along with a few others here, have been totally on-point for the last couple of years about this mess.
if not for this board, i would have been stuck with a flip. luckily, i sold in a panic in late 2006. i tried to tell relatives to do the same .. but they were making $$$ and got greedy.
stick around … you’ll learn something
NJBubbleBlog
Mafia
chicagofinance Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
October 14th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
grim unmod this
stfu, I’m in moderation, too, and I didn’t even do anything but smack you.
SAS…are you referring to Silver contracts or a couple lesser known baseball players from 1960. Short was a Yankee, Long was a Cub.
WSJ
OCTOBER 15, 2008 At Moment of Truth, U.S. Forced Big Bankers to Blink
By DAMIAN PALETTA, JON HILSENRATH and DEBORAH SOLOMON
U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson looks over his entourage after announcing that the Treasury Department will take equity stakes in potentially thousands of banks totaling about $250 billion.
On the other side sat the nation’s top bank executives, who had flown in from around the country, lined up in alphabetical order by bank, with Bank of America Corp. at one end of the table and Wells Fargo & Co. at another.
It was Monday afternoon at 3 p.m. at the Treasury headquarters. Messrs. Paulson and Bernanke had called one of the most important gatherings of bankers in American history. For an hour, the nine executives drank coffee and water and listened to the two men paint a dire portrait of the U.S. economy and the unfolding financial crisis.
As the meeting neared a close, each banker was handed a term sheet detailing how the government would take stakes valued at a combined $125 billion in their banks, and impose new restrictions on executive pay and dividend policies.
The participants, among the nation’s best deal makers, were in a peculiar position. They weren’t allowed to negotiate. Mr. Paulson requested that each of them sign. It was for their own good and the good of the country, he said, according to a person in the room.
During the discussion, the most animated response came from Wells Fargo Chairman Richard Kovacevich, say people present. Why was this necessary? he asked. Why did the government need to buy stakes in these banks?
Morgan Stanley Chief Executive John Mack, whose company was among the most vulnerable in the group to the swirling financial crisis, quickly signed.
Bank of America’s Kenneth Lewis acknowledged the obvious, that everyone at the table would participate. “Any one of us who doesn’t have a healthy fear of the unknown isn’t paying attention,” he said.
This account is based on interviews with participants, government officials and banking-industry executives.
Regulators had spent the weekend crashing out their latest strategy to restore confidence to America’s battered banking system. As markets tumbled last week and foreign governments began taking dramatic steps, U.S. officials coalesced around a plan that would include guaranteeing bank debt and a big capital injection. Policy makers wanted to deliver a “confidence shock,” one participant said.
Treasury and government officials held multiple meetings and conference calls on Saturday. Dozens of officials gathered at Treasury’s headquarters Sunday morning and stayed into the evening, lunching on sandwiches from Potbelly Sandwich Works.
They kept coming back to the same question: Is the plan too sweeping? Policy makers knew they were taking unprecedented steps. It would take years to disentangle banks from the federal government. Some of these temporary steps would be hard to undo.
Policy makers debated how the government’s capital injections should be structured, especially the question of the dividend banks would pay. Make it too high, and that risked draining firms of needed funds and scaring off other potential rescue recipients. Make it too low, and taxpayers wouldn’t be compensated for their risk.
Another challenge: Inject capital without scaring away private investors.
A final deal between regulators was hashed out in Mr. Paulson’s office Sunday afternoon. For Mr. Paulson, who had spent a career as an investment banker, the decision marked a reversal. Just weeks earlier, he had said that injecting capital directly into banks would appear to be a sign of “failure.”
The top bankers were then told to show up for a meeting Monday at 3 p.m., but were given few details. Expecting an uproar over the plan, government officials secretly planned to break off the first meeting, giving CEOs time to vent, talk to their boards, clear their heads, and reconvene at 6:30 p.m.
In Mr. Paulson’s call with Morgan Stanley’s Mr. Mack, people familiar with the matter say, the CEO asked the Treasury secretary the reason for the meeting. Mr. Paulson responded: “Come on down, we’ll tell everyone at the same time,” adding, “I think you’ll be pleased.”
Also at the 3 p.m. gathering was New York Fed President Timothy Geithner, along with Fed Governor Kevin Warsh and Comptroller of the Currency John Dugan. Behind them were lawyers and staff. The meeting took place in the Treasury secretary’s conference room, which faces a courtyard and is outfitted with mahogany chairs, antique wall sconces and chandeliers.
It struck some of those in the room as fortunate that Citigroup Inc. and Wells Fargo are so far apart in the alphabet. The two firms just last week were locked in a bitter battle over control of banking giant Wachovia Corp., a fight Wells Fargo eventually won. Citigroup is still seeking billions of dollars from Wells Fargo in damages for swooping in on the Citigroup deal after regulators had already blessed it. With the firms sitting alphabetically, at least the heads of the two rivals, Mr. Kovacevich and Citigroup Chief Executive Vikram Pandit, wouldn’t have to sit next to each other.
Mr. Paulson said the public had lost confidence in the banking system. “The system needs more money, and all of you will be better off if there’s more capital in the system,” Mr. Paulson told the bankers.
After Mr. Kovacevich voiced his concerns, Mr. Paulson described the deal starkly. He told the Wells Fargo chairman he could accept the government’s money or risk going without the infusion. If the company found it needed capital later and Mr. Kovacevich couldn’t raise money privately, Mr. Paulson promised the government wouldn’t be so generous the second time around.
Mr. Bernanke said the situation was the worst the country had endured since the Great Depression. He said action was for the collective good, an understated appeal. The room was silent as he described the economy’s fragile condition.
Mr. Geithner, whose job as New York Fed chief makes him the central bank’s main man on Wall Street, delivered the most sobering news. He described how much preferred stock the government was going to buy from each firm. The government would take $25 billion in Citigroup, $10 billion in Goldman Sachs Group Inc., and so on.
The CEOs shot off questions, peppering officials for details about how the share purchases would be structured and how it might constrain them. At one tense moment, Mr. Bernanke jumped in to calm nerves. The meeting didn’t need to be confrontational, he said, describing paralysis in the market and the threat that posed to everyone in the room.
U.S. officials argued the plan represented a good deal for the banks: The government would be buying preferred shares, and thus wouldn’t dilute their common shareholders. And the banks would pay a relatively modest 5% in annual dividend payments.
The meeting ended at about 4 p.m. By 6:30 p.m., all of the sheets had been turned in and signed by the CEOs. No second meeting was held.
http://www.thegreatschlep.com/site/index.html
“Where he at?
There he go.”
I would be outraged if any educational institution ever communicated such lyrics to a child of mine.
Thgat you Gator? Or just a Web site you found interesting?
Chifi,
That WSJ piece about the meeting with the bankers where they were given no choice and”encouraged to sign the agreement reminded me of the following exchange from the wedding scen in the Godfather:
——————————————————————————–
Kay Adams: Michael, you never told me you knew Johnny Fontane!
Michael: Sure, you want to meet him?
Kay Adams: Well, yeah! Sure.
Michael: My father helped him with his career.
Kay Adams: How did he do that?
Michael: …Let’s listen to the song
Kay Adams: [after listening to Johnny for a while] Tell me, Michael. Please.
Michael: …Well when Johnny was first starting out, he was signed to a personal services contract with this big-band leader. And as his career got better and better he wanted to get out of it. But the band leader wouldn’t let him. Now, Johnny is my father’s godson. So my father went to see this bandleader and offered him $10,000 to let Johnny go, but the bandleader said no. So the next day, my father went back, only this time with Luca Brasi. Within an hour, he had a signed release for a certified check of $1000.
Kay Adams: How did he do that?
Michael: My father made him an offer he couldn’t refuse.
Kay Adams: What was that?
Michael: Luca Brasi held a gun to the bandleader’s head, and my father assured him that either his signature or his brains would be on the release.
Kay Adams: …
Michael: …That’s a true story.
#327 chifi,
the US is now a hedge fund. We borrow at 3% and buy preferred shares with a 5% yield. :)
I much prefer the government buying preferred shares with a dividend and restricting executive comp then the original plan to use 700 billion to buy toxic debt and let the clowns go scot free
CF: For Mr. Paulson, who had spent a career as an investment banker, the decision marked a reversal. Just weeks earlier, he had said that injecting capital directly into banks would appear to be a sign of “failure.”
I am still skeptical of Paulson. He is Banker. He has soft heart for Banks. With this step, he has tried to save banks and jobs of his fellow bankers. In my mind this nepotism to extreme. In no other field, Government would step in to the amount they did for Banks. The carrot is too soft and stick is too short.
waiting (316)-
Thanks, but I almost feel you’ve damned me with faint praise.
Trichet is a brain-dead soci@list functionary, with all the guts and imagination of a three-toed sloth.
Even though Trichet is an inflation hawk, that is primarily because it’s his only mandate. As bad as things are here, it’s even worse in Europe.
Banks’ Bailout Unlikely to Crimp Executive Pay
Under the bailout plan for the nation’s banks unveiled on Tuesday, no heads will roll, as they did in the United Kingdom. No banking executives are likely to go hungry, either. But their parting may not be quite as sweet.
SG (335)-
Allow me a moment of silence for these unfortunate men.
Each one of them should be summarily executed and buried in unmarked graves. Then, their families should have to surrender every penny of their net worth to the Treasury.
Then, Klink and Bergabe should meet the same fate.
Bank executives? Give me a break. More like serial bank robbers.
Guess the WSJ wasn’t invited to Klink’s afterparty on Monday at Scores.
Mike Morgan has gone silent.
Post up at his site says he’s trading (very profitably) 24/7 and his client list is now full and closed to new investors.
If one is of a like mind, that’s a pretty good sign that it’s time to short this sucker into the toilet.
All disclaimers. Short selling is evil and anti-American. ;)
anyone see Hank the Clown on ABC’s GMA? what a joke. he’s so dodgy and dirty …
Clot, when i just read your post, i thought Morgan had been ‘silenced.’
ricky-nu (229),
New, custom built home
Sold: $1,700,000 2/7/2005
—–
ACT $1,975,000 1/8/2007
WD $1,975,000 5/4/2007
–
ACT $1,870,000 5/4/2007
PCH $1,875,000 5/5/2007
PCH $1,775,000 7/10/2007
WD $1,775,000 10/16/2007
–
ACT $1,800,000 10/19/2007
PCH $1,750,000 1/25/2008
WD $1,750,000 5/13/2008
–
ACT $1,750,000 5/13/2008
WD $1,750,000 10/2/2008
–
ACT $1,500,000 10/2/2008 (Short sale)
Yikes (339)-
Wouldn’t surprise me at all if Morgan is “silenced”.
I’m a nobody RE broker, with one office and 10 agents. You should’ve seen what the other local brokers tried to do to silence me when I went bearish about 18-20 months ago.
Clot,
Has that issue been resolved? I know you can’t give details
Rent (342)-
I was able to catch the ringleader of the people coming at me in some serious skulduggery. So now, he’s got nothing on me…but I have everything on him, and he knows it. Things will play out ok.
I got very, very worried for a couple of weeks. Then, I came to my senses and realized that these people taking shots at me are Realtors…the stupidest people you’ll meet outside of prison (and I suspect many people in prison are actually smarter).
If I can’t navigate these fools, I deserve what I get.
#348 thanks Rich!