But will it work?

From the Wall Street Journal:

House Passes Stimulus Package

The House passed an $819 billion tax-and-spending bill Wednesday, in a recession-fighting effort that would extend the reach of the federal government across the U.S. economy by reshaping policy on energy, education, health care and social programs.

The House bill is one of the largest single stimulus packages in history, almost equal to the entire cost of annual federal spending under Congress’s discretion. A parallel Senate measure, which is expected to come to a vote next week, is now valued at nearly $900 billion.

Either bill, if enacted, would push the federal debt toward levels not seen since the second World War.

Although most of the money — about $526 billion — will be spent in 2009 and 2010, spending on some programs, including student-loan programs, clean-water projects and housing assistance, is expected to last well beyond the current recession. The House bill expands access to health care for the unemployed, represents perhaps the largest expansion of the federal government’s role in education financing ever and begins what Mr. Obama has promised will be a push toward renewable energy that will continue throughout his presidential tenure.

“The strategy under this bill is to throw billions of dollars in every bureaucratic direction, and cross our fingers and hope for the best,” said Rep. Ken Calvert (R., Calif.) Wednesday during debate on the House floor.

“We need to compare the cost of this package against the cost of doing nothing. The cost of nothing would be catastrophic,” said Rep. David Obey (D., Wis.).

This entry was posted in Economics, National Real Estate, Politics. Bookmark the permalink.

509 Responses to But will it work?

  1. victorian says:

    Victory Coffee smells good in the morning!

  2. Happy Camper says:

    2 ?

  3. Frank says:

    To all the assholes that called me names yesterday: NYTimes agrees with me.

    What Red Ink? Wall Street Paid Hefty Bonuses.

    “Despite crippling losses, multibillion-dollar bailouts and the passing of some of the most prominent names in the business, employees at financial companies in New York, the now-diminished world capital of capital, collected an estimated $18.4 billion in bonuses for the year.

    That was the sixth-largest haul on record, according to a report released Wednesday by the New York State comptroller.

    While the payouts paled next to the riches of recent years, Wall Street workers still took home about as much as they did in 2004, when the Dow Jones industrial average was flying above 10,000, on its way to a record high.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/29/business/29bonus.html?_r=1&ref=business

    You call this a recession?? I will take a bonus for losing billions any day.

  4. Cindy says:

    http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/111/house/1/46

    House Vote on H.R.1: Making Supplemental appropriations for fiscal year sending 2009

    Sponsor: Nancy Pelosi

  5. Clotpoll says:

    I think we can all safely agree that it’s now time to make sure we have adequate stores of food, water, arms and ammo.

    The size of this massive pork bomb- and the “bad bank”- may mean that some of the initial signs of societal meltdown (like bank holidays) may not occur. However, I think this also means that the first symptoms of complete societal breakdown will be more sudden and severe.

  6. gary says:

    Clotpoll [5],

    And through it all, I’m still seeing near peak asking for houses in Northern Bergen and West Essex. Two things will survive through a meltdown: roaches and house prices in Northern NJ.

  7. SG says:

    Taleb Says Nationalize Banks, You Can’t Trust Them

    Roubini, a former economist in President Bill Clinton’s White House, predicted the financial crisis as early as July 2006. Last February he forecast a “catastrophic” meltdown that central bankers would fail to prevent, leading to the bankruptcy of large banks with mortgage holdings.

    “We should not trust these bankers; look at their track record,” Taleb said. “They know we’re going to bail them out. They hold us as hostages” and “the only way to stop the process is for the government to own those banks, tell them what to do.”

    JPMorgan Chase & Co. Chief Executive Officer Jamie Dimon, speaking at a panel at the World Economic Forum in Davos today, doesn’t agree.

    “JPMorgan will be fine if everybody stops talking about nationalizing banks,” Dimon said. “Policy has been catch-as- catch-can. I haven’t yet seen people get all the right people in the room, close the damn door, put all the problems on the wall and come up with a solution.”

  8. John says:

    JP Morgan says has “plenty of capital”
    REUTERS — 4:30 AM ET 01/29/09
    DAVOS, Switzerland (Reuters) – JPMorgan Chase & Co (Symbol :

    “JPMorgan would be fine if we stopped talking about (the) damn nationalization of banks … we’ve got plenty of capital,” Jamie Dimon said, at the annual meeting of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

  9. DISSIDENT HEHEHE says:

    Has anybody easten MRE’s? Are they edible? I just got my bonus yesterday and was looking to put together a little 6 mo survival package and was seeking something less bulky than canned goods.

  10. Clotpoll says:

    Durable goods orders just fell out of bed.

    There’s that damn “demand” thingy again…

  11. Clotpoll says:

    gary (6)-

    Take another Xanax, and come back in six months.

    No one is exempt from the coming pain. No one.

  12. All Hype says:

    Frank (3):

    Your tone has changed since I called you out yesterday. You start off by rubbing our noses in the fact that large bonuses are paid out and now you act like a victim.

    If you disklike Wall Street, please state it. If you are here just to be a troll, get lost.

  13. Clotpoll says:

    Drat. Moderated. For telling Gary to take a X@nax.

  14. kettle1 says:

    Clot

    I agree, that is my concern as well. The longer they prop the system up and the harder they push, the quicker the collapse will be.

    The size of this massive pork bomb- and the “bad bank”- may mean that some of the initial signs of societal meltdown (like bank holidays) may not occur. However, I think this also means that the first symptoms of complete societal breakdown will be more sudden and severe.

  15. cooper says:

    good morning comrades, ahhh the sweet smell of boiled cabbage & potatoes in the morning. I put on my flak jacket and hail the motherland. remember- there is no “I” in team. Yeah change the only change we’ll hear is- spare change anyone, plz can you spare some change?Got change?

  16. TB says:

    You call this a recession?? I will take a bonus for losing billions any day.

    That would make you an A-hole.

  17. Cindy says:

    http://www.ustreas.gov/press/releases/tg04.htm

    “In the coming weeks, we will unveil a series of reforms to help stabilize the nation’s financial system and get credit flowing again to families and businesses. Included in those reforms will be a commitment to increase transparency and oversight,” said Secretary Geithner. “Today we are taking a step toward increased transparency by committing to place all of our TARP investment agreements on the internet so the taxpayers can see how their money is being spent and the terms these institutions must agree to before we invest taxpayer money.”

  18. gary says:

    In case anyone cares to know, $600,000,000 of the, ahem… stimulus package will go towards purchasing cars for the Feds to cruise in style.

  19. Joey says:

    HEHEHE,

    While some may not like MREs (some in the service call them Meals Rarely Edible) I don’t think they’re so bad. However they do have an expiration date, so be careful that what you buy will be good by the time you need it.

  20. All Hype says:

    CLot:

    Don’t worry, 1 trillion dollars of pork and useless spending will get us out of the recession.

    I knew that Obama would drive the bus into a wall, I did not know he would put a nitrous oxide tank in the vehicle.

  21. Stu says:

    Clot: I couldn’t agree more.

    At a time when people are struggling to put food on the table and are living in fear of their jobs being lost, the stimulus bill is doing little more than keeping union workers working. There is absolutely nothing in the package to stimulate any kind of commerce in the private sector except for maybe construction and even those numbers are tiny compared to how many jobs will be lost due to the halt of commercial and residential real estate starts.

    This stimulus is the kind of package that should have taken place when we were running a surplus.

    There is a reason that China burns coal for the majority of their electricity generation. It’s cheap! If Obama was running the show in China, as their growth turns negative, his stimulus package would require all power to be generated by renewable resources. Of course, a revolution would ensue as the few workers left would all lose their jobs due to the new excessive cost of purchasing clean energy.

    It’s kind of like in Montclair. The new town council (like all of them prior) ran on a platform of controlling property taxes. At the first capital budget meeting, they decided to build bike lanes on county roads and purchase broadcasting equipment to allow them to stream live to channel 34 (local origination).

    As I left the meeting, I told them that maybe I was wrong about my earlier suggestion that they shouldn’t waste my money on the broadcast equipment for now they can broadcast the mass emigration of the lower income residents out of Montclair in real-time.

  22. grim says:

    From MarketWatch:

    U.S. weekly continuing jobless claims rise to record 4.78M

    U.S. weekly initial jobless claims rise 3,000 to 588,000

    U.S. 4-week average initial jobless claims rise to 542,500

    U.S. insured employment rate steady at 3.6%, 25-year high

  23. Barbara says:

    6. Gary

    Your anger/humor speaks for me. Don’t go changing.

  24. John says:

    keeping “union workers working” Is that like “Baked Alaska” or “Efficient Government”?

  25. grim says:

    From MarketWatch:

    U.S. Dec. durable goods orders down 2.6%

    Orders for U.S.-made durable goods sank in December, falling 2.6% on weaker demand for a wide range of products, the Commerce Department reported Thursday. Excluding the 0.6% gain in transportation goods, orders fell 3.6%. The decrease exceeded the expected 2.0% fall forecast by economists surveyed by MarketWatch. It was the fifth straight decline in new orders. The report was weak across the board. One of the only bright spots was a jump in commercial aircraft. Shipments fell 0.7% in December, and were down 1.4% excluding transportation goods. Inventories rose 0.4.

  26. Barbara says:

    John,
    you forgot “jumbo shrimp”

  27. Cindy says:

    At #17 – The PDF file for AIG is listed under “Systemically Significant Failing Institutions”

    And what is a:

    “Targeted Investment Program”

    Why Citigroup of course.

  28. grim says:

    From MarketWatch:

    Record number on the unemployment lines

    U.S. unemployment lines stretched to the longest on record, the Labor Department reported Thursday, a sign that the U.S. labor market continues to worsen.

    Continuing jobless claims rose by 159,000 in the week ending Jan. 17 to a seasonally adjusted 4.78 million, the most since the government’s records begin in 1967. That is the same week the government surveyed hundreds of thousands of workplaces and households to gather information for the January employment report.

    Meanwhile, the number of new claims for state unemployment benefits rose by 3,000 to a seasonally adjusted 588,000 in the week ending Jan. 24, just 1,000 below the 26-year high for initial claims set a month ago.

    The four-week average of new claims – which smooth out distortions caused by bad weather, strikes or the timing of holidays – rose by 24,250 to 542,500.

    Initial claims represent job destruction, while the level of continuing claims indicates how hard or easy it is for displaced workers to find new jobs. The jobless claims report shows businesses are laying off workers at a rapid pace, and finding a replacement job is ever harder for those who’ve lost work.

  29. Jim says:

    Grim,

    Could you give me some information on listing 2593366, Rockaway.

    My daughter wants to move back to NJ to be with friends and family, house looks pretty good, although taxes are high.

    How long on market? How much did present owner pay for it, and when? Thanks in advance…and thanks for all you do here.

    JIM

  30. freedy says:

    i’m suprised that the state workers along with the locals (cops,fire,muni’s)
    have not put in for Tarp money.

    oh, the arbitrators as well.

  31. freedy says:

    everything will be fine.

  32. chicagofinance says:

    DISSIDENT HEHEHE says:
    January 29, 2009 at 8:32 am
    Has anybody easten MRE’s? Are they edible? I just got my bonus yesterday and was looking to put together a little 6 mo survival package and was seeking something less bulky than canned goods.

    Clotpoll says:
    January 29, 2009 at 8:34 am
    Take another Xanax, and come back in six months.
    No one is exempt from the coming pain. No one.

    all: can a Xanax be considered a MRE on its own? or can a Xanax be inserted into a MRE?

  33. chicagofinance says:

    grim unmod

  34. grim says:

    New home sales due out at 10am

  35. Barbara says:

    off topic but do you think stores will resist slashing prices on TVs post superbowl due to this whole analog turnover? Think they anticipate a rush?

  36. grim says:

    Jim, give me a few minutes on that.

  37. Clotpoll says:

    Cindy (17)-

    Welcome to the fiscal equivalent of an expensive dinner and lots of wine before the inevitable ravishment:

    “Today we are taking a step toward increased transparency by committing to place all of our TARP investment agreements on the internet so the taxpayers can see how their money is being spent and the terms these institutions must agree to before we invest taxpayer money.”

  38. Stu says:

    John, Barbara,

    You are both correct. Please allow me to revise my “union workers working” to “allow union workers to continue to get paid regardless of their societal need or complete lack of efficiency.” Wait, that sounds too much like the IBs and their bonuses!

  39. Sean says:

    From Previous Thread, re: U.S. Draft Law Would Ban Most Trading in Credit Swaps.

    Watch for that Congressman’s plane to crash, if anybody thinks that Washington is going to kill the golden goose anytime soon they are dreaming.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aunliUvGxe90&refer=us

  40. Barbara says:

    Stu,
    IBs and union workers need to get on a bowling league

  41. Frank says:

    #12,
    “If you disklike Wall Street, please state it.”

    I like Wall St. and the huge bonuses, I get them too.
    My point is simple, things are just as good as they were, and the gloom and doom preached on this blog is just a talk. Reality is very different.

  42. cooper says:

    re- SG #19

    vacancy=higher crime rate

    any stats in crime rates?

  43. Cindy says:

    Clot (37)

    I loved the use of the word “invest”…before we “invest” taxpayer money.

  44. NJGator says:

    Short Hills Comp Killer:

    250 Old Short Hills Rd (GSMLS 2549777)

    OLP: 899,000
    LP: 799,000
    DOM 197

    Sold 1/26/06: 875,000

    Can someone with GSMLS access let me know if this one is a short sale?

  45. Sean says:

    re: #44 – Cindy watch the interview, Geithner’s horns flared and his eyballs glossed over as he said it.

  46. All Hype says:

    Frank (42):

    I will tell all the people on Wall Street who get laid off over the next year that they do not have a problem, it’s just their perception of reality. Ms. Hype works with one of the big IBs and the people there are poster children for xanax and anti-depression medication.

    You really are clueless.

  47. cooper says:

    Stank # 42
    “Reality is very different.”

    for the moment the reality you speak of exists only in the 6 inch neighborhood between your ears.

    “My point is simple, things are just as good as they were”

    Try to explain that to the droves of people who are out of work, cant pay mortgage, rent, bills, insurance, school,etc.

    You are simple and have a pointy head.

  48. Cindy says:

    In the paper today, Fresno County just laid off 21 workers. They were employed in the development services department and probably haven’t done much work in a year.

    “Fresno County pays for planning services through user fees. The fees are subject to fluctuations in the construction industry, which has had a decline in activity.”

    Probably not much “permit filing” going on…

  49. John says:

    I also love that people say they lost their retirement savings. Not one person in the United States has lost a penny of retirement savings. Savings means to keep safe, FDIC insured bonds, Treasuries etc., People have been investing not saving with their retirement funds to juice yields and when you do that you take on risk as a co-owner or lender to a company. These investors want it both ways, to get the higher yield when they take on risk yet have the govt bail them out.

    Cindy says:
    January 29, 2009 at 9:04 am
    Clot (37)

    I loved the use of the word “invest”…before we “invest” taxpayer money.

  50. yikes says:

    kettle1 says:
    January 28, 2009 at 7:18 pm

    yikes,

    why would paulson care? you know he has already gotten paid, and into multiple cayman accounts….

    a year or two from now, he’ll be behind bars

  51. NJGator says:

    Cops: Ohio family dead in likely murder-suicide
    Investigators say father’s recent job loss may have been a factor in deaths

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28907442/

    This is the second one of these awful stories in a week.

  52. Sean says:

    Spain’s housing bubble bust.

    Filmed in Spain’s Soto del Henares district, look at all the half finished projects.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccJp6C1xdZ8

  53. Stu says:

    yikes,

    “a year or two from now, he’ll be behind bars”

    Wishful thinking.

  54. Cindy says:

    (40) Sean

    We will need to keep an eye on Collin Peterson of Minnesota….

    “As much as 40 percent of profit at Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley comes from OTC derivatives trading…”

  55. BC Bob says:

    “To all the assholes that called me names yesterday”

    Frank,

    Didn’t call you an asshole yesterday. However, no reason. That has been established a long time ago.

  56. comrade nom deplume says:

    [9] Dissident,

    MREs — three lies for the price of one

    MREs — the next best thing to food.

  57. freedy says:

    so how come the kid on long island is in jail, no bail , and madoff sits in the 9mil pad?

  58. SG says:

    Grim – any historical details on 2625689.

  59. freedy says:

    wait, i guess he did’nt steal enough

  60. Stu says:

    Gator,

    “This is the second one of these awful stories in a week.”

    Perhaps we can allow Frank to write their epitaphs…

    “Things are just as good as they were, and the gloom and doom preached on this blog is just a talk. Reality is very different.”

  61. RayC says:

    freedy,

    Look at the numbers, Madoff is a bigger, better con man. And he is conning his way out of jail for the time being. How? I don’t know, which hopefully means I’m not a total sociopath like him.

  62. Barbara says:

    NJGator,
    We need some TARP to go to a national outreach program. This is going to get out of control, people are so isolated in the burbs, don’t have real connection with neighbors, live far from relatives and only have “work friends.” Bad mix in these times.

  63. comrade nom deplume says:

    Rumblings from the tax world. (or as we call it, the BNA Daily Tax Report) . . . .

    “The New York State Bar Association Tax Section Jan. 28 urged the Internal Revenue Service to expand and clarify its rules on the treatment of domestic transfers to foreign corporations in reorganizations under tax code Section 367. . . . The Tax Section recommended a number of changes to the rules . . . .” [Sec. 367 treats the transfer of property by a domestic co. to a foreign affiliate as a taxable sale, subject to certain exceptions].

    “LOS ANGELES—Cracking down on offshore-based tax evasion will be a big part of Internal Revenue Commissioner Douglas Shulman’s platform for the next five years, a senior IRS official said Jan. 27. . . . Alan Astengo, a foreign residency compliance team manager in the Large and Mid-Size Business Division, agreed, noting that in his 25 years of IRS experience, he has never seen such a commitment to go after international tax abuses.”

    The prevalence of these stories tells me (1) that a heck of a lot of capital will be going overseas in the near future and (2) IRS is expecting it.

  64. Pat says:

    http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/29/real_estate/tax_credit_near/index.htm

    “A 10% increase would yield an extra half million sales this year.”

  65. Sean says:

    re: #63 Comrade I am heading overseas in May. Do you think they will notice the gold bars in my luggage?

  66. BC Bob says:

    Sent to a friend of mine. Classic.

    Once you’ve read through the other 502,768 resumes that you surely received for this position, perhaps you will see something that strikes your interest in my resume. Even though this is definitively the worst job market since the Great Depression of 1929, and I have a better chance of being mauled by a Siberian tiger while scuba diving in the English Channel than being chosen for an interview for this position, maybe someone who keeps a good spirit in the most desperate times will be valuable to your organization.

  67. Genworth seriously tightening MI guidelines;

    Underwriting Guideline Changes – Effective February 2, 2009

    • Minimum Credit Score = 680
    • Maximum Debt to Income (DTI) = 41% regardless of AUS or Submission Channel
    • High Cost Loans (> $417,000) Minimum Credit Score = 740

    o Loan amounts > $417,000 in CA – Ineligible

    • Cash Out Refinance – Ineligible
    • Second Homes – Ineligible
    • Manufactured Homes – Ineligible
    • Construction to Permanent – Ineligible

    Declining/Distressed Markets Changes – Effective February 2, 2009

    • Minimum Credit Score = 700

    o AZ, CA, FL, NV = 720 (as per existing guidelines)

    • Maximum Debt-to-Income = 41% regardless of AUS or submission channel
    • Additions to our Declining/Distressed Markets List

    o 17 states added in their entirety
    o 69 MSA/CBSA added
    o Please see Attachment A for a complete list of new markets

    http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/01/genworth-tightens-mortgage-insurance.html

  68. The FICO requirements seriously hurt.

    Everything in CA in Jumbo-land denied, meaning no MI, meaning increased downpayments or no loan.
    This sure won’t help. It’ll be interesting to see if the other insurers follow suit.

  69. kettle1 says:

    HEHEHE

    MRE’s…..

    They are definitely edible. Some are even kinda good, o ther are only “edible”. you might consider some freeze dried stuff as well as the MRE’s. MRE’s can last about 10 yrs is stored in a cool dry place.

    I have eaten 7 year old MRE’s that tasted fine

  70. kettle1 says:

    Stu 22

    I have got to come to one of those meetings with you. It sound s like it would be amusing ( for those masochists among us)

  71. ruggles says:

    NJ Bargain of the day.

    This may have made it onto willwork4beer’s list but just in case this looks like a great value for someone so its worth highlighting. After more than a year on the market, it sold in August 08 for $250k, now listed at $900k. I’m sure they added 650k worth of value in 6 months. Great home for historic house lovers. Must love highway traffic noise as well as you can throw a rock from route 31 and hit the living room.

    http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/Readington-Twp_NJ_08822_1106289313

  72. Confused In NJ says:

    If they want to save jobs, veto mergers like Pyzier & Wyeth, under anti trust laws. Moratorium on all mergers which result in lost jobs. Only mergers allowed are for aquistion of failed companies.

  73. PGC says:

    I think I’ll become a corporate trainer. I have spotted a gap in the market.

    What if the doomsayers are right … what if society, as we know it, really is about to collapse? Do you have what it takes to make it in a world without electricity and running water? Tanya Gold offers an essential survival guide
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/jan/29/apocalypse-survival-guide-tanya-gold

    Can we campaign to put Solar panels on Reactors to keep the pumps going.

  74. comrade nom deplume says:

    [65] sean,

    If you have gold bars so large that TSA would notice, you will need to hire me to help you navigate this process.

    Given the talk of another Gold Hoarding Act, it may actually make sense to use a foreign custodian for physical provided you had enough to make it worthwhile. But if all you have is mini-ingots or coins, you simply attach them to your family’s gold chains (jewelry is probably exempt) when going through TSA on your way to Amsterdam or Zurich (and where they will mysteriously disappear while over there).

  75. comrade nom deplume says:

    [73] PGC

    This was my favorite line:

    “Always, always quarantine snails before eating them. Take the snail and put it where there is nothing for it to eat. Ignore its cries of hunger, leave for three days and then consume.”

  76. DL says:

    Will gladly serve as foreign custodian for physical. Limited number of plots in my yard still available. They’re not making any more land. Buy now before the market disappears forever.

  77. Sean says:

    Comrade, got it dress up like Mr. T. I wonder if I should do the gold lined vest look too.

    http://www.boom2bust.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/mr-t.jpg

  78. NJGator says:

    70 Kettle – You definitely should.

    This week’s Montclair Outrage of the week comes courtesy of the BOE:

    HS had an interim principal who was contracted through end of December. The BOE still has not hired a permanent candidate, so they asked the interim principal if she would be willing to stay on.

    Interim principal accepted, but told the superintendent she had a “small problem”. She and her hubby had rented a home in Florida for the winter and she couldn’t “abandon” her husband there.

    No worries. The superintendent agreed to a 3 day work week for this “full-time” position. We are waiting to find out if the work arrangement includes the town paying for her weekly flights between NJ and Florida, and if she is collect 60% or full salary. If I were a betting woman, I’d go all in on yes/100%.

    Mind you, the HS has 6 assistant principals. I guess none of them able to serve as interim principal.

    And people blame our high taxes on Newark.

    Montclair might actually be the only town in NJ that could turn me into a card carrying conservative!

  79. Barbara says:

    I’d like to see job loss rates at income tiers, any site where I can get that info, state by state?

  80. comrade nom deplume says:

    [73] pgc

    The article is right about one thing–you don’t survive the apocalypse by sitting in ones’ home eating tinned food. You grow it.

    Hence, the compound, as we call it here.

    Still, one needs a store for bad times, and with nitrogen storage, MREs, irradiated food, and overall better preservation techniques, one can have a healthy store of food. Of course, I call this a pantry (except for the emergency stuff).

    Side note on MREs: My former college roommate (and the NBC noncom for his battalion) always kept an MRE in the trunk of his car. We lived in western Mass., and were outdoors-types, so there was a real possiblity of getting stuck in the middle of nowhere in winter. We also used some things from MREs for camping trips.

  81. Barbara says:

    NJGator,
    but still, you have Stephen Colbert. ;P

  82. comrade nom deplume says:

    [79] gator

    Cambridge, Mass., Burlington, VT or Berkeley, CA would do it too.

    We call these towns “granola towns” because once you get past the fruits and nuts, there’s nothing left but the flakes.

  83. John says:

    don’t need to store food as I am eating when. whereever and whatever I want. Big dogs run wild and I am going to chomp on you if I have to. so fatten up comrade, your leg will test great on the bbq.

  84. John says:

    actually the fruits would likes you to lick their nuts

  85. NJGator says:

    80 Barbara – Yes, I still love Colbert. But pretty soon he’ll be the only one who can still afford to live here!

  86. comrade nom deplume says:

    [82] barbara,

    They can have me. I look like Steven Colbert but I’m funnier.

    (someone once told me I also looked like Olbermann, and I would have shot her for that if I were armed. Besides, I disagree—my hair isn’t gray and my smirk isn’t a condescending one)

  87. comrade nom deplume says:

    [84] John,

    True dat, as I have been working out and my massive quads probably are tender and tasty.

    But you would have to be quicker to the draw there, big dog. Otherwise that sucking chest wound would make it hard to imitate the Iron Chef.

  88. John says:

    U.S. new home sales total 482,000 in ’08, lowest since ’82

  89. grim says:

    80 Barbara – Yes, I still love Colbert. But pretty soon he’ll be the only one who can still afford to live here!

    You want to know the kicker. I know folks who are eating Ramen to afford their Montclair mansions. Paying huge amounts of their income in mortgage and taxes, all for the prestige.

    Yet Colbert lives in what I’d call a relatively modest home given his income (I assume).

    Last I remember, I think he paid somewhere around $500k for his house.

  90. Barbara says:

    87.

    comrade, you must perfect the “sling glasses off face in faux outrage” bit.

  91. John says:

    Conmrade I plan on doing a Boxing Helena thing to you, there won’t be refridgeration so I will eat you a piece at a time, a nice hot iron on the BBQ will seal the bleeding as I nibble on arms and legs, I will save those massive quads for Thanksgiving.

  92. Barbara says:

    90.
    Had a friend who was “willed” a MOntclair mansion. It was an albatross, 30k in taxes and 5 bathrooms, all needed to be renovated.

  93. Barbara says:

    90.
    Grim,
    curious. 500k in what year?

  94. grim says:

    $515,000 in July of 2000.

  95. Barbara says:

    95. damn. for that year he got something nice for that 500k. But yes, still modest for him. I hear he is a nice catholic boy with a lovely family.

  96. grim says:

    From MarketWatch:

    U.S. Dec. new-home sales down 14.7% to record 331,000 pace

    U.S. Dec. new-home sales weaker than 390,000 pace expected

    U.S. new home sales total 482,000 in ’08, lowest since ’82

    U.S Dec. new-home sales weakest on record

  97. Stu says:

    For what it’s worth, I’ve been told that I look a lot like Vladi Lenin.

  98. grim says:

    And here I am, a complete nobody who probably makes 1/10th of what he makes.

    And *I* had Realtors try to push me to buy $700k houses in Montclair in 2005.

    Unbelievable.

  99. Barbara says:

    grim, hello. same here. 2005 is when I gave up.

  100. comrade nom deplume says:

    [92] John

    Wow, okay, before you decide to change your name to Donner, I will have to enlist Kettle and SAS for a pre-emptive first strike. Remember, you never hear the one that gets you.

    You can’t be that hard to find—I will look for the old guy in the hot car, trying to pick up girls in the Hamptons (oh, snap, that is pretty much everyone).

  101. grim says:

    Although I did try to sell Gary a property 3 houses over.

  102. Stu says:

    “Conmrade I plan on doing a Boxing Helena thing to you,”

    That’s good. For a minute there, I thought you were going to ‘onion’ him.

  103. comrade nom deplume says:

    [98] stu

    Sometimes you sound like him too!!! ;-)

  104. comrade nom deplume says:

    [103] stu

    Thanks. Now I have to explain riotous laughing to my secretary.

  105. comrade nom deplume says:

    [91] barbara,

    I can do that. And I can do the eyebrow thing too!

  106. comrade nom deplume says:

    Are there a lot of large banks in Austin?????

    “AUSTIN (KXAN) – Austin drivers making their morning commute were in for a surprise when two road signs on a busy stretch of road were taken over by hackers. The signs near the intersection of Lamar and Martin Luther King boulevards usually warn drivers about upcoming construction, but Monday morning they warned of “zombies ahead.”

  107. BC Bob says:

    New home sales, lowest monthly level on record, durable goods decline 2.6% and continuing claims, jobless benefits, hit a record high.

    Where’s the recession?

  108. chicagofinance says:

    chicagofinance says:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    January 29, 2009 at 8:54 am
    DISSIDENT HEHEHE says:
    January 29, 2009 at 8:32 am
    Has anybody easten MRE’s? Are they edible? I just got my bonus yesterday and was looking to put together a little 6 mo survival package and was seeking something less bulky than canned goods.

    Clotpoll says:
    January 29, 2009 at 8:34 am
    Take another Xanax, and come back in six months.
    No one is exempt from the coming pain. No one.

    all: can a Xanax be considered a MRE on its own? or can a Xanax be inserted into a MRE?

  109. chicagofinance says:

    unmod?

  110. PGC says:

    #81 Nom

    I liked the comment a few days back from someone on the survival skills of Manhattanites.

    After Sep11, my company gave out survival packs for everyone to keep in their desk. It has a 1200cal 5yr food ration, 2 8oz water pouches, lightsticks, first aid kit and a survival blanket.

  111. comrade nom deplume says:

    [110] PGC

    I keep food, water and some cash in my office, though it is more for regular use, not just emergencies, but the point is that it is always there.

    If I were to supplement it, I would add a gas mask, CS or CN spray, and maybe first aid kit, but that would be all. While I could probably keep a hogleg legally, my employer might get a tad miffed.

    Such supplies must be tailored to the likely situation. Yours is a hunker down package. Mine would be a bug out package.

  112. John says:

    You are funny, I will eat your head last so I can enjoy your jokes for awhile longer. Maybe I will do a faces of death monkey brain thing to you just for fun.

    comrade nom deplume says:
    January 29, 2009 at 10:18 am
    [92] John

    Wow, okay, before you decide to change your name to Donner, I will have to enlist Kettle and SAS for a pre-emptive first strike. Remember, you never hear the one that gets you.

    You can’t be that hard to find—I will look for the old guy in the hot car, trying to pick up girls in the Hamptons (oh, snap, that is pretty much everyone).

  113. Outofstater says:

    #64 Barbara – I agree about the isolation. I’ve noticed that a few of my neighbors have casually asked how I’m doing and when I say fine and then return the question, all of their concerns come pouring out of them. So I listen and try to offer support and understanding. People need to vent and they can’t do it at home because that would just increase the stress level. We all need to watch out for one another these days.

  114. bcamp111 says:

    Grim (97)

    Just looked up Colbert’s house and zillow shows it sold for $950K in September ’08…

  115. Shore Guy says:

    “To all the assholes that called me names yesterday: NYTimes agrees with me.

    What Red Ink? Wall Street Paid Hefty Bonuses”

  116. Shore Guy says:

    “To all the assholes that called me names yesterday: NYTimes agrees with me.

    What Red Ink? Wall Street Paid Hefty Bonuses”

  117. Shore Guy says:

    “To all the assholes that called me names yesterday: NYTimes agrees with me.

    What Red Ink? Wall Street Paid Hefty Bonuses”

    Isn’t that what Bonny and Clyde called what they were doing — taking bonuses?

  118. Shore Guy says:

    or maybe it was Jessie James.

  119. Clotpoll says:

    ruggles (73)-

    It floods, too.

  120. Rich In NNJ says:

    January NJMLS Comp Killers

    BERGENFIELD
    90 LINCOLN AVE
    SOLD: $388,000 12/12/2006
    SOLD: $262,000 1/9/2009

    CLIFFSIDE PARK
    268 WAYNE AVE
    SOLD: $410,000 2/6/2004
    SOLD: $345,500 1/12/2009

    CRESSKILL
    308 GRANT AVE
    SOLD: $1,630,000 12/6/2006
    SOLD: $1,350,000 1/22/2009

    DUMONT
    52 W LINDEN AVE
    SOLD: $355,000 7/7/2006
    SOLD: $310,000 1/21/2009

    ELMWOOD PARK
    30 LINWOOD AVE
    SOLD: $445,000 12/27/2002
    SOLD: $430,000 4/6/2004
    SOLD: $290,000 1/16/2009

    ELMWOOD PARK
    109 BELLEVUE AVE
    SOLD: $436,000 6/23/2005
    SOLD: $329,770 1/20/2009

    EMERSON
    136 DYER AVE
    SOLD: $280,000 10/29/2004
    SOLD: $410,000 11/23/2005
    SOLD: $250,000 12/31/2008

    ENGLEWOOD
    297 MARY ST
    SOLD: $353,000 4/27/2006
    SOLD: $280,000 1/7/2009

    ENGLEWOOD CLIFFS
    27 GERALDINE CT
    SOLD: $1,340,000 9/6/2005
    SOLD: $1,295,000 1/22/2009

    FORT LEE
    2469 HAMMETT AVE
    SOLD: $359,000 3/2/2005
    SOLD: $285,000 12/31/2008

    FORT LEE
    219 BELLEMEADE AVE
    SOLD: $700,000 11/17/2003
    SOLD: $600,000 1/19/2009

    LEONIA
    49 HAWTHORNE TER
    SOLD: $429,000 3/28/2003
    SOLD: $429,000 1/16/2009

    LITTLE FERRY
    2 VELOCK DR
    SOLD: $379,900 7/10/2006
    SOLD: $224,900 1/23/2009

    MAYWOOD
    49 GROVE AVE
    SOLD: $348,000 7/21/2005

  121. cooper says:

    117-Outof
    I agree! get back to basics, care a little… I like where your heads at. :) looking good billy ray

  122. Rich In NNJ says:

    OOOOPS!

    MAYWOOD
    49 GROVE AVE
    SOLD: $348,000 7/21/2005
    SOLD: $289,000 12/30/2008

    More to come…

  123. John says:

    ‘Weapons of Mass Destruction’

    “We gave them the weapons of mass destruction to borrow too much,” Dimon told a panel at the forum. “I don’t blame them, I blame the CEOs of their own businesses.”

    He said his bank, the world’s biggest by market value, has “plenty” of capital and had lent $150 billion over the past 90 days.

  124. Shore Guy says:

    “massive pork bomb”

    Obama asserts that he was elected to change the way things get done in Washington and that he wants a clean bill, one free of pork. If that is true, he should veto the bill if it has any earmarks or other pork. If he signs it “because we just can’t delay on this important and needed legislation,” he will have ben rolled by the Dems in congress and he will be hard pressed to ever come out on top in a battle over spending.

  125. Clotpoll says:

    John (94)-

    You have to age human flesh (even if for a day or two) before you eat it. It is especially nasty if you try to cook and eat it while in rigor mortis.

  126. Shore Guy says:

    “For what it’s worth, I’ve been told that I look a lot like Vladi Lenin”

    V.I. Stu for Montclair council? It could work, I am sure there must be Trotskyites on the council already.

  127. cooper says:

    ok clot now im scared
    BRB

  128. Shore Guy says:

    Clot,

    Remind me not to eat anything you bring to a GTG.

  129. BC Bob says:

    Clot,

    880.

  130. Shore Guy says:

    It adds a new dimension to the concept of shepard’s pie.

  131. grim says:

    Shore, we’re already porked. From the WSJ link above:

    Also tucked inside is $335 million for programs that help prevent sexually transmitted diseases, and $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts. The Senate version includes $70 million for a supercomputer at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and $75 million for smoking-cessation programs.

  132. John says:

    Thanks, I wonder how Wolfgang Puck tastes?

    Clotpoll says:
    January 29, 2009 at 11:10 am
    John (94)-

    You have to age human flesh (even if for a day or two) before you eat it. It is especially nasty if you try to cook and eat it while in rigor mortis.

  133. Ben says:

    guys, every nation goes through a hyperinflationary episode at one point. America’s been through 2 already. Society doesn’t collapse. It’s not the end of the world. It’s just the end of your retirement account. Mexico underwent hyperinflation without chopping each others heads off. So can we.

  134. jcer says:

    Ok who let Dahmer on the message board. This is making a turn towards crazy, I knew John was a little off based on his stories, I am now thinking a lot.

  135. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    ‘Bad Bank’ Will Not Boost Lending, Whitney Says

    A U.S. proposal to create a “bad bank” to buy troubled assets won’t cause banks to increase lending, Oppenheimer & Co. analyst Meredith Whitney said.

    “Simply removing ‘toxic’ assets from bank balance sheets will not directly cause banks to increase lending,” Whitney wrote in a note today.

    The banks likely won’t participate in selling assets if the Obama administration wants to pay fair market value for the assets “as capital hits would be too dear,” Whitney said.

    The Obama administration is moving closer to setting up a so-called bad bank in its effort to break the back of the credit crisis and may use the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. to manage it, two people familiar with the matter said yesterday.

    Whitney is in favor of banks selling “crown jewel” assets to cover their own losses, she wrote.

    “We believe private capital will readily invest in businesses that make money and grow,” Whitney wrote. “However, the banks do not fit this description.”

    “If a bank were to sell its ‘bad’ assets into a ‘bad bank,’ it would still be left with lower earnings power from higher losses on ‘good loans’ and the requirements to build reserves, lower earnings power from lower assets and a higher legacy expense structure, or both,” Whitney wrote.

  136. cooper says:

    now all i need is some fava beans

  137. Rich In NNJ says:

    Grim.

    Post 124 in moderation

    Rich

  138. kettle1 says:

    Ben,

    I agree in general, but the current situation compounded by the fact that this is a global event. This will not be just one nation experiencing financial disaster. Most of the industrialized nations are in serious financial straits due to our now integrated global financial system.

    That said, its not the end of the world. but going form the highest standard of living in the world to a lower one is not a pleasant experience and the its a very open question as to how the general population and PTB deal with it.

    guys, every nation goes through a hyperinflationary episode at one point. America’s been through 2 already. Society doesn’t collapse. It’s not the end of the world. It’s just the end of your retirement account. Mexico underwent hyperinflation without chopping each others heads off. So can we.

  139. BC Bob says:

    “The banks likely won’t participate in selling assets if the Obama administration wants to pay fair market value for the assets “as capital hits would be too dear,” Whitney said.”

    She should know better. They won’t pay close to fair market prices. If they did, the dead get hung upside down. It will be based on the govt’s model. They’ll overpay, sit on it while it continues its downward spiral and eventually sell it to private investors at a huge loss. Thank you taxpapers.

    Picture Belushi in Animal House, BULLSHEET.

  140. kettle1 says:

    cooper 139,

    dont forget the chianti

  141. was_looking says:

    101 & 102 – 2005 was when i was fortunate enough to find this blog and realize that walking away from an overpriced home in Maplewood (after my low bid failed to stir anything but a chuckle from Realtor & owner) was probably the best move! Thanks (again) Grim!

  142. chicagofinance says:

    To reiterate….note the sargent on the phone whos brain is eaten by Ronald McDonald….

    chicagofinance says:
    January 27, 2009 at 10:58 pm
    Footage of Branchburg NJ in April 2009:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miIPEOExM8U&feature=PlayList&p=4C77EA373B23EB5F&index=76

  143. chicagofinance says:

    unmod

  144. grim says:

    Rich,

    I’m going to grab some photos and post that up on the main page later in the day.

    Much appreciated.

  145. morpheus says:

    Ah . .
    The New Jersey real estate report with concentrations in cannibalism.

    who will be the first to post cannibalism recipes?

    BTW: I do not see a collapse of civilization from the coming economic collapse. My prediction is, to paraphrase Mr. T, “PAIN”. Lots of pain.

  146. comrade nom deplume says:

    [115]

    “humanity has got it comin.’”

    Indeed.

    Part of what we can expect in our brave new world is that while we throw tons of money at it, the services that we come to expect will break down. We have seen it already—garbage collection dropped, streets not plowed or salted in winter once the snow budget goes, roads will become cratered ever more so (IMHO, the latter two items were, along with the Rodney King riots, major motivators for SUV sales in the 90’s), towns drop ambulance service, and curtail police and fire services (really, it happens), and the surviving municipal employees start to “phone it in” more than ever.

    As Detroit goes, Newark, Philadelphia, Memphis, and a host of second and third tier cities will follow. Jobs that were there before will not come back (no mfg, and btwn offshoring and tech productivity gains, economic resurgence doesn’t mean jobs).

    In the past, the service sector picked up the slack by hiring the marginally unemployable, but that required “productive” workers earning decent enough money to spend on goods and services. Democrats have essentially declared war on this class, which is the one best positioned to spend our way back into some semblance of health—simply put, if every level of gov. is taking more in taxes from everyone, especially the HENRYs, people have less to spend (which is, maybe, why 0bama saw that raising their taxes right now might be counterproductive).

    I see no future in urban living. I felt that this urban renissance would be the last one we saw for some time. As tax revenues go down because the HENRYs disappear and the truly rich adjust their tax profiles, and charitable giving and work dries up because the government is kicking the nonprofit sector to the curb by taking their pie and their turf, there will be less money to pour into the cities. Suburban and rural voters will vote to cut them loose, and the urban landscape of the 70’s will return. Of this I am pretty certain.

  147. grim says:

    Hmm, you know, for many the elimination of HELOCs and the inability to purchase a Hummer and a powerboat would be considered the collapse of civilization.

    Perhaps we need a reset.

  148. chicagofinance says:

    Skip to minute 8:00…

    “…I know you are there because I can smell your brain….”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3730s9tjaI&feature=PlayList&p=4C77EA373B23EB5F&index=75

  149. Rich In NNJ says:

    Continued January NJMLS Comp Killers (see post ~124)

    OAKLAND
    60 CHERYL LN
    SOLD: $825,000 4/19/2004
    SOLD: $770,000 12/31/2008

    RAMSEY
    65 MAPLE ST
    SOLD: $410,000 2/2/2005
    SOLD: $399,000 12/31/2008

    RIDGEWOOD
    312 LINCOLN AVE
    SOLD: $790,000 12/22/2004
    SOLD: $720,000 1/9/2009

    RUTHERFORD
    29 WINGRA AVE
    SOLD: $380,000 7/20/2005

  150. Ben says:

    “I knew that Obama would drive the bus into a wall, I did not know he would put a nitrous oxide tank in the vehicle.”

    Yeah, the most insulting part of the bill is that it doesn’t start the big spending immediately. Well, if that’s the case, then why was it so urgent, as Mr Obama said, to pass this things in his first week in office? This guy is just as dishonest as every other politician out there and I really wish people would stop drooling over him like he’s saving us.

  151. Rich In NNJ says:

    DAMN!

    Post 153 continued:

    RUTHERFORD
    29 WINGRA AVE
    SOLD: $380,000 7/20/2005
    SOLD: $310,000 1/9/2009

    TEANECK
    17 LEROME PL
    SOLD: $355,000 2/16/2006
    SOLD: $260,000 1/23/2009

  152. comrade nom deplume says:

    [128] shore,

    FWIW, I am surprised that no one has noticed that the spending package is also political payback. A great deal of money is going to traditional Dem special interests: teachers, pro-choice groups, city dwellers, etc. It is pork in that money is being diverted to the constituents (interest consitutents, not district) of the democratic legislators.

    Coupled with today’s equal pay legislation announcement, which is a HUGE gift to the trial lawyers (and another reason to shift jobs overseas), the O-man and Pelosi have done much to shower money on democratic constituencies.

  153. Rich In NNJ says:

    this is getting annoying…

    TEANECK
    124 BEDFORD AVE
    SOLD: $375,000 2/6/2005

  154. comrade nom deplume says:

    [144] Kettle

    or the fava beans.

  155. gary says:

    Hope and Change. BWAHAA!! This country is even more illiterate than I thought.

  156. Ben says:

    “I agree in general, but the current situation compounded by the fact that this is a global event. This will not be just one nation experiencing financial disaster. Most of the industrialized nations are in serious financial straits due to our now integrated global financial system.”

    It’s not a global collapse. It may appear like it’s going to be but the fact of the matter is, some countries are producer and some are consumers. The consumers have turned into welfare cases. The producing countries can actually raise their standard of living by consuming their own products. The consuming nations will simply have to go back to work and start producing something if they want to consume. America is the consumer nation, and an unwinding of it’s consumption based economy will be disastrous but necessary. There is no end of the world. We will have sound money sometime in the future and we will have to work for what we want to enjoy. That’s it. There are a number of ways this gets done. Either the government decides to do the right thing. Maybe we have a revolution. Or maybe the government just bankrupts itself. Either way, hyperinflationary collapses are typically followed by a Renaissance period because we don’t have a government that tries to meddle in the economy. As for the aristocracy trying to control people, they usually flee the country or get slaughtered.

  157. Stu says:

    Obama=American Idol

  158. chicagofinance says:

    Ben says:
    January 29, 2009 at 11:36 am
    This guy is just as dishonest as every other politician out there and I really wish people would stop drooling over him like he’s saving us.

    Ben: That in fact may be true. However, from my perspective, they way he will add value (if he is going to) is in foreign relations….if he flops there…he’s provides no incremental value over McCain…..

  159. kettle1 says:

    Nom

    “no future in urban living”

    that is an interesting debate. i think that the answer is yes and no, it will be very situational depending on the available resources and the geographic region.

    I think there will still be a big demand for urban living as many do not have and do not want the additional skills need for more rural living.

    In my opinion the european village model is more likely to be successful

    ———————–

    Ben,

    maybe people are just excited that its someone besides an old white guy who is robing them blind and driving them off a cliff…….

    I agree with you though, the driver is irrelevant if we are still going off the cliff.

  160. Shore Guy says:

    “Also tucked inside is $335 million for programs that help prevent sexually transmitted diseases, and $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts.”

    This is actually good news. Why? The STDs we get will come from Congress and B.O. bending us over a straightbacked chair and making those of us who actually pay taxes squeel like pigs. I don’t expect them to use condoms or to be clean so the STD money will help clean up the mess.

    As for the NEA, this will enable photographers to go around chronicling our misery, just like the WPA artist’s project did in the 30s. Just think, one of us could be the mother with her childern image for the 21st centuty, or the new Okies, Josies?, with all our possessions piled high on a truck heading for work out west, maybe in JiangSu province.

  161. gary says:

    Stu,

    I agree!

  162. jcer says:

    I think if we were going to waste this kind of money we should at least put it towards things that have lasting value and will make America more competitive in the future. I wanted to see massive funding to commuter rail, a comprehensive plan to upgrade the deteriorating roadways, bridges etc, a huge earmark for supporting solar power and wind in the form of home owner rebates and capital plans, a huge telcom investment, etc. If we are going to blow money we might as well get something for it, infrastructure is our weapon against the Chinese and Indians taking all of the American jobs. So far all I have seen is money that will be blown, but not immediately and that will not have a huge lasting effect nor will it stimulate the economy.

  163. Rich In NNJ says:

    ARRRGH!

    TEANECK
    124 BEDFORD AVE
    SOLD: $375,000 2/6/2005
    SOLD: $288,000 1/26/2009

    TEANECK
    1164 KENSINGTON RD
    SOLD: $442,000 8/25/2004
    SOLD: $375,000 1/8/2009

    TEANECK
    745 QUEEN ANNE RD
    SOLD: $775,000 12/2/2002
    SOLD: $777,500 1/22/2009

    TENAFLY
    94 OAK ST
    SOLD: $639,000 7/15/2003
    SOLD: $625,000 1/15/2009

    WALDWICK
    18 SMITH ST
    SOLD: $550,000 7/15/2005

  164. kettle1 says:

    ben,

    what do producers do when the consumers cannot buy their stuff anymore? the chinese cannot afford buy what the americans were……. not that we realty could either.

    While being a producer does offer a nation better options, it does not mean that it wont hit the wall. You have to look at the demographics and civics of each nation.

    I agree that you can have a renaissance of sorts after preferring the system by way of hyperinflation and subsequent social purge. Only time will tell. There will be significant energy barriers that we face in the near future

  165. jcer says:

    To make it more clear we are still utilizing and enjoying the fruits of the WPA programs, this bill in 10 years we will be hard pressed to remember where the money went.

  166. kettle1 says:

    shore guy

    Like this?

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_9ZzZquaXrR8/SX91_WGkhjI/AAAAAAAAC0A/qgnmQzY4hNY/s1600/WhiteMigrant.jpg
    (Russell Lee After Taxes February 1939
    White mother with children at migrant camp. Weslaco, Texas
    Russell Lee’s notes: “Local employment men say that there was no need for migrant labor to handle the citrus and vegetable crops in the valley, the local supply of labor being ample for this purpose. Most of the local labor is Mexican and the labor contractors favor Mexican labor over white labor, partly because the Mexican will work much cheaper than whites. One white woman who was a permanent resident said that the white people who lived in the valley had no trouble with the Mexicans. The Mexicans were good neighbors, she said, always willing to share what they had. She said the white migrants who came into the valley and resented and misunderstood the Mexicans caused the trouble between the two races. )

    As for the NEA, this will enable photographers to go around chronicling our misery, just like the WPA artist’s project did in the 30s. Just think, one of us could be the mother with her childern image for the 21st centuty, or the new Okies, Josies?

  167. Rich In NNJ says:

    almost done, must stay patient…

    WALDWICK
    18 SMITH ST
    SOLD: $550,000 7/15/2005
    SOLD: $440,000 1/16/2009

    WASHINGTON TWNSHP
    378 FERN ST
    SOLD: $740,000 6/23/2006
    SOLD: $416,000 1/12/2009

    WYCKOFF
    727 MOUNTAIN AVE
    SOLD: $562,500 8/15/2006
    SOLD: $460,000 1/16/2009

    DONE!!!

  168. Stu says:

    “this bill in 10 years we will be hard pressed to remember where the money went.”

    Not if you are a union worker.

  169. Clotpoll says:

    chi (146)-

    My favorite line:

    “It’s like rabies…only faster.”

  170. veto says:

    Ben Says. guys, every nation goes through a hyperinflationary episode. America’s been through 2 already. Society doesn’t collapse. It’s not the end of the world. It’s just the end of your retirement account…

    im not seeing the collapse of american society either, if anything i see us growing more united as we flush the greed out of the system and get back to basics of simplicity and moderated consumption. if fed fails we’ll all be poor slobs, there will be nothing to uprise against. i think its safe to put the guns away and come out of the basement people…

  171. Clotpoll says:

    morph (149)-

    Sashimi is more of a technique than a recipe.

    “…who will be the first to post cannibalism recipes?”

  172. House Hunter says:

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/28898377

    realty trac states that 70% of foreclosures are not in the MLS…not sure how accurate this is but interesting

  173. jcer says:

    Stu, that is true but with the private sector pretty much getting pay cuts, so should go the public sector and the goal should be Jobs, and jobs with a living wage and not much more.

  174. willwork4beer says:

    Re: MREs

    According to my BIL (Lt Col USMC) MRE stands for “Meals Rejected by Ethiopians”.

  175. BC Bob says:

    “WASHINGTON TWNSHP
    378 FERN ST
    SOLD: $740,000 6/23/2006
    SOLD: $416,000 1/12/2009”

    Rich,

    Thanks. Did Bergen County move to Little Rock?

  176. BC Bob says:

    “i think its safe to put the guns away and come out of the basement people…”

    Maybe it’s time to get out of the basement. However, it’s also time to dig down deeper.

  177. veto says:

    Rich, thanks for the comp killers, looks like we are at late 2002 prices.

    Also thought about being consumer or producer country, if we were a more production based country, who would buy all our stuff in this crisis? producers are in the same dillema we are but opposite problem. seems to me that we need eachother.

  178. BC Bob says:

    veto [181],

    We need to be innovative and create good and services that the rest of the world wants to buy. All we are doing is transferring wealth from the producers to the dead. Absolutely nothing innovative is being created in this stimulus plan. We may hire 2 million people, 1 million to dig a hole, the other 1 million to fill the hole back up. What are we sending in crates to the rest of the world? Toxic treasuries?

  179. BC Bob says:

    goods

  180. John says:

    I’m hungry going to run out and find someone, I mean something to eat.

  181. veto says:

    yep i agree BC Bob we need to change that for sure. also agree that stimulus has lots of junk even john keynes himself would agree is horrendous waste of money.
    even with all the faults and political nonsense im optimistic we’ll turn the ship slowly over the next decade, although lots of pain ahead i dont see major uprisings or societal implosions as a result

  182. Stu says:

    John=cornball

  183. Victorian says:

    WordPress is acting weird. Test.

  184. John says:

    Bond of day, brand new issue Yankee Stadium Z-coupon bonds. Can buy 100K face for $16,177, for you high income folks that is the equivalent of a 12% bond if it was taxable. Nice for taxable retirement accounts, go yankees!!!

    NEW YORK N Y CITY INDL DEV AGY
    REV YANKEE STADIUM
    PROJ-PILOT-A
    R/MD 00.00 03/01/2035
    Coupon Rate ZERO %
    Maturity Date 03/01/2035
    Price 16.177
    Quantity Available 1000,000
    Min Order Size 25,000
    Order Multiple 5,000
    Settlement Date 02/05/2009
    Yield to Maturity 7.110 %

  185. Victorian says:

    BTW, John – you are absolutely correct about the strategy of buying bonds and shorting stocks, if you had started doing it in Oct.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=LQD#chart2:symbol=lqd;range=1y;compare=^gspc;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined

  186. John says:

    I know, even worse it is almost risk free, if Citi went under and your bond tanked you would have cleaned up on the short. If citi limped to end of bond maturity you win both ways. Once in a lifetime opportunity I missed.

    Victorian says:
    January 29, 2009 at 12:34 pm
    BTW, John – you are absolutely correct about the strategy of buying bonds and shorting stocks, if you had started doing it in Oct.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?

  187. spam spam bacon spam says:

    73 Ruggles:

    That house was trashed.

    “Second story landscaping” trashed.

    I don’t know how much they put into it, I’m sure it was a lot of $$$, and they are obviously flippers who got caught at the tail end…

    Did they buy it looking like that for 250K? No. But still sucks to be them.

  188. Ben says:

    “ben,

    what do producers do when the consumers cannot buy their stuff anymore? the chinese cannot afford buy what the americans were……. not that we realty could either.”

    Actually, the Chinese can afford to buy what the Americans do. In fact, we buy their stuff with their money. The idea that a Chinese worker cannot enjoy the fruits of his own labor is ridiculous. If that were the case, we would have not had a consumer class post WW2 right here in America. They don’t need us to buy their stuff. They can sell it to themselves. China is only in danger of raising their standard of living as they shift from an exporting nation to their own economy.

  189. skep-tic says:

    Stimulus bill is embarrassing. Time for Mr. O to show he is willing to lead his party to higher ground

  190. kettle1 says:

    Marinated Leg of In-Laws

    When it comes to in-laws, the meat can be tough and wirey. This comes from their illogical perception of you the person who claimed their child. Slapping the flesh while the in-laws are still alive can sometimes help tenderize the meat. Remember Culinary Gurus, fear tenderizes all meat.

    Ingredients:
    4 legs, two from each in-law
    4 cup white wine
    12 chopped carrots
    4 diced white onions
    2 Bay leaves
    1/2 cup butter
    salt and pepper to taste
    grated Parmesan cheese

    Directions:
    Combine half of the wine, bay leaves, 2 of the onions, and salt and pepper to taste. Slice the leg into pieces the width of a normal steak. Place in glass cake pan and cover with marinade. Refrigerate, covered, for 36 – 48 hours, turning the meat occasionally.

    In a large skillet melt butter and add meat. Fry until the meat is golden brown on both sides. Remove meat from the pan and add the remaining onions and carrots and wine. Simmer until vegetables are soft.

    Pour vegetables and meat back into cake pan and bake for 2 hours at 375. Serve topped with grated parmesan cheese, salad and wine. Feeds 4-6 people.

  191. Stu says:

    “4 diced white onions”

    John may only choose to dice 3.

  192. spam spam bacon spam says:

    135 grim

    Shore, we’re already porked. From the WSJ link above:

    Also tucked inside is $335 million for programs that help prevent sexually transmitted diseases, and $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts. The Senate version includes $70 million for a supercomputer at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and $75 million for smoking-cessation programs.

    prevent disease: better to prevent that to treat. Ask Still_Looking…

    NEA: Just making up for $ lost during Bush regime. Don’t forget, NEA includes downtime recreation for our troops, the Smithsonian, Bldg historic preservation and dept of Justice delinquency prevention…

    70MM supercomputer: nice to spend money on SCIENCE, not woo…. What a breath of fresh air this admin is!

    smoking cessation: see number 1. Help smokers quit or treat their smoked out carcasses under medicare…take your pick…

  193. spam spam bacon spam says:

    *better to prevent THAN treat…

    derf…

  194. chicagofinance says:

    Instruction manual for chewy comestibles surrounded by a hard calcified membrance….

    please advance the video to minute 9:30
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OZxEMuspd4&feature=PlayList&p=4C77EA373B23EB5F&index=72

  195. Shore Guy says:

    “So far all I have seen is money that will be blown, but not immediately and that will not have a huge lasting effect nor will it stimulate the economy.”

    AND, later on, when we need, need, need, to make structural improvements we will not have any money available to do it. Every dollar we spend today should save $2-3 over the next 10-15 years. I fully trust, what congress stands ready to do will not.

  196. spam spam bacon spam says:

    Kettle,

    do you remove the fat beforehand?
    What if there’s no meat udner the fat?
    Just more fat?

    Do you use the legs instead to cure animal hides?

  197. Shore Guy says:

    Speaking of Ethiopia, and environs, has anyone here ever had any contact with the Eritrean mob?

  198. spam spam bacon spam says:

    Our previous POTUS could not spell atmospheric.

    Therefore, he felt he did not need it.

  199. comrade nom deplume says:

    [174] veto

    “if fed fails we’ll all be poor slobs, there will be nothing to uprise against.”

    Except each other.

    Think I will keep the powder dry.

  200. kettle1 says:

    Grim, sorry for the long post….

    Putin’s speech at Davos. Can we make him president???

    (snip, not long anymore)

    http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/36554

  201. PGC says:

    I caught the Billy Mays health insurance commercial on TV last night. What have we come to.

    http://www.icanbenefit.com/

  202. grim says:

    Just had an interesting discussion with an economist who feels that the U.S. may not ever recover the jobs lost from the great recession and that the decreased standard of living necessary to compensate will result in a societal shift back to the single income household.

    Wow! What a talk!

  203. make money says:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123318934318826787.html

    Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao squarely blamed the U.S.-led financial system for the world’s deepening economic slump, in the most public indication yet of discord between the U.S. government and its largest creditor.

    Leaders in China, the world’s third-largest economy, have been surprised and upset over how much the problems of the U.S. financial sector have hurt China’s holdings. In response, Beijing is re-examining its U.S. investments, say people familiar with the government’s thinking.

    Ok, so the people that lent us money are getting a little mad cause now they know that the’d be lucky to get paid in depreciated dollars if at all.

    When they stop buying our debt then my fellow friends you may not be able to hide in the basement.

    Kettle,

    That Domenica hideout convesation from Sept needs to be brought up again.

  204. spam spam bacon spam says:

    working from home today and loving my Logitech squeezebox boom.

    I dop’t think I’ll ever need all the bazillions of live free streaming radio stations, Pandora, Live365, Sirius, plus internet only streams, on demand podcasts, access to my itunes and all my MP3s plus…

    Hell, I got sucked into trance and ambient and there’s 900+ stations just in that genre…

    Did you know there’s one station that just broadcasts the music from BladeRunner?

    Jeebus, it played it 2 hours last night… too cool…

  205. make money says:

    Kettle,

    Putin reaallly seems to get it. How many US politicians do really understand what got us into this mess?

  206. kettle1 says:

    make

    shhhhhh, i dont know what you are talking about

  207. comrade nom deplume says:

    [178] willwork,

    That was a coffee-out-the-nose one! I gotta remember that.

  208. Al says:

    veto says:
    January 29, 2009 at 11:57 am
    Ben Says. guys, every nation goes through a hyperinflationary episode. America’s been through 2 already. Society doesn’t collapse. It’s not the end of the world. It’s just the end of your retirement account…

    America has NEVER BEING IN HYPER-INFLATION!!! NO argument accepted.

    In economics, hyperinflation is inflation that is “out of control”, a condition in which prices increase rapidly as a currency loses its value. Formal definitions vary from a cumulative inflation rate over three years approaching 100% to “inflation exceeding 50% a month.”

    In informal usage the term is often applied to much lower rates. As a rule of thumb, normal inflation is reported per year, but hyperinflation is often reported for much shorter intervals, often per month.

    Show ne a period of where american dollar depreciated 50%/month???

    33%/year is still not hyper inlfation.

    50%/month and up – that is another story….

  209. comrade nom deplume says:

    [207] grim,

    Not so far fetched. I had concluded that the same thing could happen. It would result in the destruction of entire industries that developed around the dual-earner household, and it would never revert to the levels of the 50’s or even the 60’s, but it could happen.

    Except it will be a lot of laid-off men staying home.

  210. Nicholas says:

    I can’t seem to remember a while back watching this disturbing movie short where this older couple invites this young couple into a hot tub.

    When the young couple complains of it being too hot the older couple pretends to turn it down but actually turns it up. They keep the liquour flowing and eventually start chopping up carrots and celery and putting it into the hot tub.

    At the end you come to realize that the old couple duped the young couple into becomming part of thier ‘hot tub soup”.

    Why can I not find any reference to it on the internet?

  211. kettle1 says:

    make,

    what gets me, is that i have more or less believed that china new what the end game is/was in the lending orgy that was the last decade….

    I am starting to rethink that proposition. Perhaps they did not account for the impact of derivatives.

  212. kettle1 says:

    a snip form the Putin speech

    “Unfortunately, we are still far from fully fathoming the real scale of the current crisis. One thing though is obvious: the intensity and the continuance of the recession will largely depend on how precisely we will define the direction of our actions; and how coordinated and professional we shall be.

    The first step that we think is essential to take in the nearest future is to literally and figuratively draw the line under our past. It is show-down time. We need to figure out the real state of affairs.

    The businesses need to write off their irrecoverable debts and “bad” assets. Yes, it is a very painful and unpleasant process. And not everyone does it willingly, having fears for their capitalisation, bonuses or reputation.

    But, avoiding clearing the balance means “preserving” and prolonging the crisis. I think that the writing-off mechanism must be effective and fit the realities of today’s economy.

    Secondly, together with clearing the balance, it is time to go free from virtual money, made-up reports and doubtful ratings. The understanding of the health of the world economy and the real state of things with corporations must not be made vague by illusions. Even if the authors of those illusions sit in the world’s largest audit and consulting agencies.

    The essence of our suggestion is that the principle of fundamental asset cost would be returned and put as the basis for the reform of audit, accounting and rating system standards. That is, the evaluation of this or that business must be built upon its capacity to generate the added value. We think that the economy of the future must be the economy of real values. How to get there? – That is the question put forward for all of us. Let’s work on it together.

    Thirdly, the excessive dependence on what is basically the only reserve currency is dangerous for the world economy. So it would be reasonable to stimulate a process of getting a number of strong reserve currencies in the future. It is time to start a specific dialogue on how to make the transition into a new model – smooth and irreversible.

    Fourthly, most countries keep their international reserves in foreign currencies. And they would want to be confident of their security. In their turn, the emitters of the reserve and accounting currencies are objectively interested to see that their money is in demand in other countries.

    That is, that mutual interest and mutual dependence are clearly in place.

    It is of vital importance that the countries responsible for the world’s reserve currencies offer more transparency for their credit and monetary policies.”

  213. yikes says:

    i think donny deutsch is a giant douche, but he’s killin it on CNBC right now, railing against guys who failing getting huge bonuses.

    the dorky guy with glasses is taking a beating while defending wall street

    fat apologist loser

  214. Stu says:

    Check out these lines from the Putin speech…

    Handling crisis must not turn into financial populism, into rejecting a responsible macro-economic policy. Unreasonable expansion of the budget deficit, accumulation of the national debt — are as destructive as an adventurous stock market game.

  215. NJGator says:

    Glen Ridge Comp Killer:

    36 Madison GSMLS # 2629485

    LP $399,000

    Sold 7/15/2004: $445,000

  216. yikes says:

    wow, and charlie started to drop an F bomb n CNBC, he’s so worked up about the bonus junk that’ll be the internet in a few minutes

  217. gary says:

    Grim [207],

    You should tell that Economist that he better buy now or be priced out forever!

  218. yikes says:

    RentinginNJ says:
    January 28, 2009 at 10:00 pm

    Anybody have a powerpoint presentation on Peru..basic stuff?

    What do you want to know? I’ve been a few times. I will be there next month.

    how safe is it? We’ve got a wedding there, and one in egypt, and even though the latter is much more appealing, there’s the whole safety concern.

  219. John says:

    cash for clunker program is cool, I wonder if I should buy up clunkers and sell them to people buying new cars so they can be crushed so they can get their big check.

  220. skep-tic says:

    #207

    ” U.S. may not ever recover the jobs lost from the great recession and that the decreased standard of living necessary to compensate will result in a societal shift back to the single income household.”

    that is an interesting idea. I do not think that would be so bad if that is the main result

  221. gary says:

    Answer: $18,000,000,000

    Question: The amount of money handed out in bonuses on Wall Street provided by TARP.

    Carry on…

  222. Nicholas says:

    My office mate said that he went to go look for housing this weekend. He went to an open house at a condiminium and he said that he was the only one to visit during the 2 hours it was being shown.

    Not only was the RE agent there when he went in but there was also a mortgage broker that was handing out buisness cards and willing to answer any questions.

  223. veto says:

    Grim says: “…the decreased standard of living necessary to compensate will result in a societal shift back to the single income household.”

    sorry I’m missing something… seems counter-intuitive to me. I would think that a tougher environment in future would force stay-at-home parents back into the work force to work longer hours… ??

  224. NJGator says:

    Can someone with GSMLS access please give me the status of 314 Glen Ave in Millburn. Is it UC or Withdrawn?

    Thanks.

  225. Ben says:

    “In informal usage the term is often applied to much lower rates. As a rule of thumb, normal inflation is reported per year, but hyperinflation is often reported for much shorter intervals, often per month.

    Show ne a period of where american dollar depreciated 50%/month???

    33%/year is still not hyper inlfation.

    50%/month and up – that is another story….”

    Sigh… pick up a history book.

    The Continental went through hyperinflation, final value, ZERO!

    Confederate currency, final value, ZERO!

    The dollar didn’t go through hyperinflation. The currencies prior to it did.

  226. Al says:

    igh… pick up a history book.

    The Continental went through hyperinflation, final value, ZERO!

    Confederate currency, final value, ZERO!

    The dollar didn’t go through hyperinflation. The currencies prior to it did.

    Are you suggesting that once we are done with this crisis there will be no currency named US DOLLAR?

  227. kettle1 says:

    ” U.S. may not ever recover the jobs lost from the great recession and that the decreased standard of living necessary to compensate will result in a societal shift back to the single income household.”

    I would argue that this could actually be an increase in standard of living. When parents and families have more time at home and with the family as opposed to both working 60 hrs/wk, i see an increase in living standard.

  228. yikes says:

    buddy went to best buy to get a flat screen. was told, “sorry, we’re actually out of stock on that one. have been for awhile. problem is, we don’t have a credit line to order more until April.”

    so he had a choice of less-quality flat screns.

    friend went to sears and got the one he wanted. only problem is sears won’t do a buy now, pay later deal, it’s all up front.

  229. comrade nom deplume says:

    Ali Velshi calls the economic collapse a “perfect storm.”

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/29/economic.crisis.explainer/index.html

    Seems that we have been saying that for awhile.

    I differ from Ali however, in that I see additional factors, including non-market factors, coming into play. Rather than two or three fronts, there were easily a half dozen different factors that coalesced into what I increasingly believe to be the Depression of 2009.

    Ali should read this board more often.

  230. grim says:

    sorry I’m missing something… seems counter-intuitive to me. I would think that a tougher environment in future would force stay-at-home parents back into the work force to work longer hours… ??

    Back to work? Work where?

  231. Ben says:

    “Are you suggesting that once we are done with this crisis there will be no currency named US DOLLAR?”

    No, I was simply pointing out that your statement that America has never gone through hyperinflation to be false.

  232. HEHEHE says:

    “sorry I’m missing something… seems counter-intuitive to me. I would think that a tougher environment in future would force stay-at-home parents back into the work force to work longer hours… ??”

    I think the point may be that the decline in asset values and peoples expectations will be so drastic that families with two working spouses may no longer be neccessary.

  233. SG says:

    Kind of pondering on, BC Bob’s point on focusing goods or service that world would want to buy.

    Apart from few high capital intensive and high tech things like Aeroplane, Chip Design etc… I am failing to see much. Can anyone on this board think of things that rest of world would like to buy from US?

  234. From Dealbreaker; UBS cancels bonuses for `09, for `10 it’s %100 stock with clawback provisions.

  235. BC Bob says:

    “Secondly, together with clearing the balance, it is time to go free from virtual money, made-up reports and doubtful ratings.”

    Kettle,

    Is he saying that making $ off created $ is taboo? Is he implying that savings will fuel future consumption [discretionary], not leverage. He must be a commie.

  236. Sybarite says:

    238

    Weapons?

  237. Nicholas says:

    Work, where? We are starving to know.

  238. NJGator says:

    For those of you questioning the accuracy of Zillow:

    In my listings today was GSMLS 2638207 (114 Mountain Ave/NP with Summit mailing address). LP for the home is $569k.

    I’m sure the owner would happily even accept a lowball offer of 40% off the Zestimate. Zillow “values” the place at $976,500.

  239. BC Bob says:

    “Can anyone on this board think of things that rest of world would like to buy from US?”

    SG,

    Lap dances?

  240. kettle1 says:

    SG 238,

    In theory, we could push for a widespread expansion of nuclear power and become the nuclear reactor producer to the world. produce the reactors and the fuel. Then sell both to other nations.

    Follow that up with long term maintenance

  241. chicagofinance says:

    Rush Limbaugh uses a new vocabulary world in today’s WSJ for the “stimulus plan”.

    porkulus bill

  242. HEHEHE says:

    Roubini on Bloomberg saying they should nationalize the banks and use a couple $1T to clean up the loans.

    My question to Nouriel, if that is the case WTF is this stimulus package and why is it $850B???

  243. kettle1 says:

    SG,

    if you dont like plutonium and U238, then produce and run thorium reactors

  244. kettle1 says:

    the neat thing about thorium reactors is that you can use them to break down existing nuclear waste to a shorter lived material (hundreds of years instead of millions of years)

  245. Ben says:

    “Apart from few high capital intensive and high tech things like Aeroplane, Chip Design etc… I am failing to see much. Can anyone on this board think of things that rest of world would like to buy from US?”

    Agriculture. In fact, we have so much open land that our main export could be food. Tobacco is another one. And if we legalized it…Marijuana and Hemp.

    The sad thing is, we never needed most of the stuff we got from China. America made all those things better than they did decades ago. I still have a blender from 1950 that I’ve dropped half a dozen times. It’s made of steel and the container is super thick glass. It’s outlasted every blender ever bought at Target or Wal-Mart, which are all plastic. So, even by buying cheap stuff from China, we still end up paying more because they break.

  246. HEHEHE says:

    “Can anyone on this board think of things that rest of world would like to buy from US?”

    Weapons. Oil drilling technology. Airplanes. Fast Food. Movies and Tv Shows.

  247. NJGator says:

    Actually, I think I have figured out Frank. The reason why he thinks the RE market is in great shape is because he must be getting his values from Zillow! According to Zillow, housing prices are still going up!

    And Stu thought we were almost underwater on our purchase price. Zillow says we’re up over $140k…and they’ve actually increased our Zestimate by $21,000 within the last 30 days!

    The market crash is apparently over folks. Buy now before your’re priced out forever.

    I don’t know what those folks across the street are doing. They can’t sell their house for $499k, but it’s actually “worth” $683k.

  248. Stu says:

    WSJ:
    New Bank Bailout Could Cost $2 Trillion

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123319689681827391.html

    “President Barack Obama’s new administration is wrestling with how to stem the continuing loss of confidence in the financial system, as it divides up the remaining $350 billion from the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program launched last fall. The potential size of rescue efforts being discussed suggests the administration may need to ask Congress for more funds. Some of the remaining $350 billion of TARP funds has already been earmarked for other efforts, including aid to auto makers and to homeowners facing foreclosure.”

  249. Ben says:

    ahh crap, I got some more great examples. All my guitar equipment is the same way. I have a guitar amp from 1965 that has outlasted 2 guitar amps from the late 90s. It’s still ticking just fine. My guitar pedals are all from the 70s. They sound better and outlast any pedals that I bought that were made the past 10 years. My favorite guitar was from the early 80s. It’s made from much better wood and the electronics and tuners are still rock solid, unlike my guitar from 2000, which I had to resolder all the connections in myself. What happened? Outsourcing. These new amps come from China. These new pedals come from China. These new guitars come from Mexico. They are all crap and the fact that I have equipment that has lasted up to 50 years speaks volumes about why quality equipment at a higher price will always be better than cheap equipment built by cheap labor. In the short run, you think you made out. But in the long run, it won’t. Our only hope is that the Chinese don’t actually start taking pride in their work.

  250. Confused In NJ says:

    The truly sad part is, this is the “Great Fraud Depression”, and the Defrauders are still in charge. If Obama wants my respect, he will roll back the billions in Financial Services Bonuses, put a moratorium on all unemployment mergers, eliminate Wall Street Gambling, etc. The Government is spending Trillions, and no one went to jail. The only changes he has made is favorable treatment for terrorists and non US citizens and gays can now openly die in foreign wars.

  251. Shore Guy says:

    “they’ve actually increased our Zestimate by $21,000 within the last 30 days!”

    Gator,

    Of course its value has gone up that much. You forgot to take into account all the gold you two have been stuffing into the cold-air returns, the attic, etc.

  252. Nicholas says:

    Intel and AMD are both American companies that make high technology.

    The chips are produced overseas but we are only exporting the lithography techniques not the knowledge on how to create the interactions among the millions of transistors.

    It doesn’t do you any good to make something small if you don’t know what your making.

  253. Stu says:

    “cold-air returns”

    We have radiators!!! Now melting down the bricks into a radiator mold and then painting them to hide them in plain site is an interesting idea. We barely have heat anyway ;)

  254. Shore Guy says:

    “New Bank Bailout Could Cost $2 Trillion”

    One would think we could start a couple of brand-spanking-new banks for less than that and just let the old ones die. As long as we are spending the great-great-grandchildren’s money, why not start fresh?

  255. Shore Guy says:

    Stu,

    The gold standard of heat: Radiators with molten Au flowing through the pipes.

  256. kettle1 says:

    Ben,

    Its a classic issue of optimization. Why spend the time and money to build an amp that will last for 50 years when the average customer only needs them to last for 3-5 years in order to be happy enough to buy another one. You can then quadruple the price of the amp that lasts 50 years all while cutting your labor costs by 70%.

    The CEO and senior execs can how quadruple their salary and add on 200% bonuses.

    The system has been optimized for producing money. that guarantees a lower standard product

  257. NJGator says:

    Shore 256 – Well then the neighbor’s must be hoarding a boatload of gold in their place. I’m betting it’s in the living room hidden in the crate of Depends that are in the online listing photos!

    It all makes perfect sense now.

  258. Shore Guy says:

    “if you dont like plutonium and U238, then produce and run thorium reactors”

    Just stay away from fast breeder reactors cooled with liquid sodium. Not pretty when the pipes start to leak.

  259. Shore Guy says:

    ““Can anyone on this board think of things that rest of world would like to buy from US?””

    Well, they may want to foreclose and use certain bits of land as payment.

  260. John says:

    Don’t see what big deal is about the bonus stuff, baseball teams are subsidized in taxpayer dollars and no one ask A-rod to give back his cash when the yankees don’t make the play-offs, sounds a lot like sour grapes to me.

  261. Nicholas says:

    Ben,

    I heard an ancidotal story a while back about Chineese made goods.

    Someone was trying to get light fixtures for their home and they called the manufacturer to get the special light fixtures sent to them. When they got them in the mail they were absolute crap. He complained “Why would anyone want these, they even look cheap”.

    He returned them and asked for new ones to be sent to him. When the new ones came in the mail they were of the same sub-par quality. He called and complained again describing in detail what he wanted from the manufacturer. Eventually they had a moment of clairity with each other when the sales representative said “why didn’t you tell me that you didn’t want American quality fixtures, I will send you Japaneese quality fixtures right away.”

    When the new order came in they were a bit more expensive, but of amazing quality and looked good.

    Apparently Chineese think that we like cheap more then we like quality. I wonder where they would have gotten an idea like that.

    Cough…Walmart.
    Cough…Home Depot.
    Cough…Lowes.

  262. John says:

    GM is the largest seller of cars in China.

  263. BC Bob says:

    “no one ask A-rod to give back his cash when the yankees don’t make the play-offs”

    John,

    What an asinine comparison.

    The Yankees are a cash cow. 50,000 paying customers come each night. How many pay, each day, to witness IB’s blowing up the house?

  264. Mike NJ says:

    Nicholas,

    That was a “Tales From the Darkside” episode. I think they had two in each 1/2 hour time slot. Classic 80’s crap on TV. Gotta love it.

  265. kettle1 says:

    Austin officials are nervous about tax bill for 10 office buildings

    Local tax officials are concerned as uncertainty looms over whether Austin’s biggest office landlord will be able to pay $17.8 million in property taxes that are due Monday.

    The money is due from Thomas Properties Group Inc. and Lehman Brothers, which, along with the California State Teachers’ Retirement System, own 10 office buildings in Austin, including the Frost Bank Tower downtown.

    Thomas Properties has gone to court in an attempt to force Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. to release money from a $100 million revolving loan to pay the property tax bill. But the lawsuit is entangled in Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc.’s complex bankruptcy case in New York, and it’s not clear when the Thomas matter might be resolved.

    City and county budget and tax officials have met twice in the past two months to discuss the outlook for tax collections generally, as well as the potential impact if the Thomas Properties/Lehman money isn’t forthcoming, said Dusty Knight, chief deputy of the Travis County tax assessor/collector’s office.

    “This could very majorly impact all taxing jurisdictions in the county,” Knight said. “Their budgets are contingent on getting the money in a timely manner. If it takes four or five years to get it back, it could affect this year’s budgets drastically.”

  266. Stu says:

    Anyone here besides Clot and BC excited about the GDP numbers due out tomorrow premarket?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/ecalendar/index.html

    Then at 9:55am we have the much less meaningful, but none the less fun, reading on consumer sentiment (predictor of consumer consumption).

  267. Ben says:

    “Don’t see what big deal is about the bonus stuff, baseball teams are subsidized in taxpayer dollars and no one ask A-rod to give back his cash when the yankees don’t make the play-offs, sounds a lot like sour grapes to me.”

    John, two wrongs don’t make a right.

  268. Stu says:

    Speaking of Austin, are you guys familiar with Leslie Cochran?

    Google it. I dare you.

    http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=Leslie+Cochran&btnG=Search+Images

  269. Al says:

    Ben says:
    January 29, 2009 at 1:36 pm
    “Are you suggesting that once we are done with this crisis there will be no currency named US DOLLAR?”

    No, I was simply pointing out that your statement that America has never gone through hyperinflation to be false.

    Sorry I simply did not think this far back… To me pre-radio/telegraph/electricity days do not count….

  270. lennie says:

    NJ Gator 243-
    $973K…that is hilarious. On zillow, it does list a 2001 sale price of $440K. Add 3% for 3 years to get a 2004 price of about $480K. $480 is 15% of current ask price–which is more what the seller realistically should be looking to get if this house sits over the spring market.

  271. Sean says:

    Little MODERN Hyperinfaltion story for the crowd, unlike Ben’s examples of Civil and revoultionary wars.

    Six months before the invasion of Iraq in 2003 the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) of the U.S. sent a team of operatives into the Kurdish area of northwestern Iraq. They carried with them $32 million in American $100 bills. This money was to be used to secure the cooperation of Iraqis in providing information before and during the invasion. The financial inducement for cooperation had to be high because the punishment exacted by the Saddam Hussein regime was extreme; not only would the informant be executed with extreme cruelty but so would all of his family.

    The money was brought entirely in one hundred dollar bills because such bills reduced the size of one million dollars to that which would fit into a backpack and weigh only 44 pounds.

    The CIA team made large payments to various leaders of the Kurdish region of northern Iraq. This was to support their raising and arming a Kurdish militia.

    After such payments had been made for a few months, the leader of the PUK faction, Jalal Talabani, came to the CIA outpost and told the operatives that they would have to supply some lower denomination American bills such as $10’s, $5’s and $1’s. He said that because no one had change for a $100 bill the price for everything in Sulaymaniyah, even a cup of coffee, had become $100.

  272. comrade nom deplume says:

    Got Gasoline???

    Jan. 29 (Bloomberg) — The United Steelworkers union plans to reject a contract offer from Royal Dutch Shell Plc, setting the stage for a nationwide strike that would halt production at U.S. refineries processing about two-thirds of the country’s oil.

    Failure to reach a new accord “poses a real threat of strike action,” Gary Beevers, the Steelworkers’ international vice president in charge of the talks, said in a written message to union members. The offer is the third made so far by Shell and all have been rejected by the union, which is seeking a “substantial wage increase” with a cost of living adjustment.

    Shell offered union workers a three-year contract with a $500 signing bonus and a 2.5 percent hourly wage increase in the second and third years, the memo showed. Members would receive a 75 cent-an-hour pay increase in the first year. The current agreement expires at 12:01 a.m. on Feb. 1. Members have already authorized the union to call a strike.

    I told my ladies to make sure the tanks were topped off. Just in case.

  273. Al says:

    Shore Guy says:
    January 29, 2009 at 2:13 pm
    ““Can anyone on this board think of things that rest of world would like to buy from US?””

    Well, they may want to foreclose and use certain bits of land as payment.

    I always thought that US was big net exporter of agricultural products…

    Untill I found this:

    http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L18356077.htm

    US FOOD exports 69.21 Billions USD…

    US FOOD imports are at 80.28 Billions USD….

    So does this mean right now USA is not even self-sustained food-wise?? (i Know USA exports a lot of wheat and meats and imports a lot of fancy wines, chocolates, cheeses and such, but still)

  274. Stu says:

    ““Can anyone on this board think of things that rest of world would like to buy from US?””

    Our debt?

  275. Ben says:

    “Sorry I simply did not think this far back… To me pre-radio/telegraph/electricity days do not count….”

    The nature of fiat money has not changed since then. Those who choose to ignore history will repeat it. And not for nothing, but hyperinflation and currency collapses have happened a lot more in modern history than they have prior to the 1900s.

  276. Ben says:

    “So does this mean right now USA is not even self-sustained food-wise?? (i Know USA exports a lot of wheat and meats and imports a lot of fancy wines, chocolates, cheeses and such, but still)”

    No, it just means we eat too much.

  277. zieba says:

    Clot,

    Can you explain why Toll Bros. (TOL) is trading between $20-$15 per share?

    It’s peers have mostly bit the dust but this one is defying gravity. WTF?!

    I get the same somethin’s-not-right feeling as I did when I looked at Zales ZLC late last year at thirty (bwwaaahahhahahah…yah..joe six-pack jewelry at malls..right, on credit…)

    Interesting fun fact: ZLC did a brief stint on the financial do not short list because its CEO was buddy buddy with some ex-sec chairman whose name I don’t remember.

  278. Stu says:

    “So does this mean right now USA is not even self-sustained food-wise?? (i Know USA exports a lot of wheat and meats and imports a lot of fancy wines, chocolates, cheeses and such, but still)”

    I say we start by imposing a ban on French Fries.

  279. HEHEHE says:

    “So does this mean right now USA is not even self-sustained food-wise?? (i Know USA exports a lot of wheat and meats and imports a lot of fancy wines, chocolates, cheeses and such, but still)”

    It may all have to do with what the government defines as food.

  280. Al says:

    The nature of fiat money has not changed since then. Those who choose to ignore history will repeat it. And not for nothing, but hyperinflation and currency collapses have happened a lot more in modern history than they have prior to the 1900s

    I believe in most countries prior to 1900’S currencies were based on “metal” coins.. .Silver and gold metals…..

    So hyperinflation was kind of contained by how much physical gold can be mined and refined.

    Once world completelly off the gold standard – it is a lto easier to print paper (or cotton) money, and now with virtual money……

  281. Shore Guy says:

    “John, two wrongs don’t make a right”

    True enough, but they do form the basis of a pretty good bill in congress.

  282. kettle1 says:

    Al,

    The US could be self sufficient in food. A lot of the raw food items we produce, such as corn or wheat get shipped overseas for processing. the processed product is then shipped back to the US where it is made into final products such as chips or bread, etc.

    The large import numbers come from the fact that we process very little of our own food.

    There is also the case where we export some varieties of rice while importing others.

    To really see if we could be food self sufficient you would have to look at the following data tables

    http://www.ers.usda.gov/

    long story short….. yes the US is capable of being food self sufficient, but you would lose some aspects of variety such as certain types of grains or fishes.

    prices would also be higher

  283. Ben says:

    “Once world completelly off the gold standard – it is a lto easier to print paper (or cotton) money, and now with virtual money……”

    Yeah, so? That was the point. The US is now headed down this path.

  284. kettle1 says:

    Ben,

    I dont know how relevant the confederate dollar is to the modern US dollar. I would argue that the confederate economy did not have the chance to become fully developed and neither did its currency.

    One change in the last 100 years is the increasing degree of fractional reserve banking. i do not know of any period in history where the majority of the world ran on such a highly leveraged system. yes there have been individual nations that have, but not an entire global system.

  285. BC Bob says:

    “I believe in most countries prior to 1900′S currencies were based on “metal” coins.. .Silver and gold metals…..”

    Al,

    Bretton Woods.

    “Tin soldiers and Nixon’s coming.”

  286. kettle1 says:

    Ben,

    do you think a virtual money system can be maintained?

  287. startingoverinNewJersey says:

    Cindy–Are you in the Fresno area?

  288. jcer says:

    The US does produce quite a bit of stuff, the problem has been the war on production for the last 20 years, between unions and chinese competition it has been a losing battle. We produce quite a bit of high tech stuff, with regards to processor technology china/india are easily 5-10 years behind(They have been closing the gap), we produce a lot of IP which is great. The issue is banking is over weighted as is the service sector, we need to get high end manufacturing back, if you look at how successful caterpillar and cummins have been with diesel engines you would question why we don’t expand on that. We need to be making all of the high end products in the US where margin can support it unfortunately we aren’t doing it, what a really nice car its german, home appliance…german,espresso machine…italian/german, besides electronics most things I purchase are either made in mexico/india(Textiles mostly) or european(Machines). We really don’t need most of what China sells and would be better off not buying it. The other thing as chinese workers cannot afford to buy the products, they are paid way too little to come close to what the American market did for chinese goods. Too fulfill their own needs they would have to shut off huge amounts of production, China’s mantra has been growth at all costs, this will hurt them a ton with the current economic climate. Lets face it the world system is about to collapse, we have reach saturation growth must shutdown globally for years now to create demand, hold onto your hats folks.

  289. John says:

    Hey if it weren’t for your bum knee you could have watched me in action at the bar at Harry’s last week, lots of us wall street folks put on a show 5 nights a week there. Would that have made you feel better? Someone took a swing at me and missed I was mouthing off so much. Worst part of that is I can sue cause he missed and I can’t hit him back cause he didn’t hit me first so if I hit first it was assult, then the buy has a 50 year old man grab him to “hold him back”. I swear what is up with these wall street faux fighters? So I walked out with no law suit and no chance to get shots in.

    BTW if you want to know what the new stimulus plan will do for our country watch New Jack City, that is us in 20 years.

    BC Bob says:
    January 29, 2009 at 2:19 pm
    “no one ask A-rod to give back his cash when the yankees don’t make the play-offs”

    John,

    What an asinine comparison.

    The Yankees are a cash cow. 50,000 paying customers come each night. How many pay, each day, to witness IB’s blowing up the house?

  290. jcer says:

    God, my english is getting bad I’ve had way too much cough syrup today.

  291. hoodafa says:

    Lead story on CNN.com right now:

    Recession lands immigrants in ‘Devil’s Cave’

    PLAINFIELD, New Jersey (CNN) — Enter the “Devil’s Cave” by pulling aside the wooden grate beneath the porch of the abandoned suburban New Jersey home. Crawl inside to see the filthy, mismatched blankets and the garbage and empty soda and alcohol bottles strewn about. Catch your breath against the smell.

    In a better time, the 8-by-12-foot cubby hole with the four-foot ceiling might have been the pride of an 8-year-old, a place to share with closest friends, a secret hideout from the neighborhood bullies.

    More at: http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/29/porch.cave/index.html

  292. BC Bob says:

    “you could have watched me in action at the bar at Harry’s last week”

    John,

    I’d rather watch paint dry.

  293. freedy says:

    how about we send these people home.

  294. Shore Guy says:

    ““Tin soldiers and Nixon’s coming.””

    Silver soldiers and congress com’n?

  295. jcer says:

    When those people can’t get work it is bad news, I am sure they would do what ever bad job asked of them for less than $10 per hour. They might eventually go, they are hoping things will pick up again because if poverty was what they were looking for they could have stayed in their native countries. Where as sneaking back in if they return home is an added expense.

  296. Shore Guy says:

    From the Reuters feed:

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – President Barack Obama believes the multi-billion dollar bonuses that Wall Street banks awarded themselves for 2008 are “outrageous”, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said on Thursday.

    The New York comptroller reported this week that Wall Street firms paid out $18.4 billion in bonuses to employees, despite receiving multi-billion dollar payouts from the government to save them from collapse in the face of the worst financial crisis in decades.

    Gibbs told a news conference that Obama had a one-word reply when he heard of the reports: “outrageous”.

    “We’re not going to be able to do what is needed to be done to stabilize our financial situation if the American people read about this type of outrageous behavior,” he said.

    Gibbs said Obama would talk in more detail about the issue before meeting his Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner at the White House later on Thursday.

    The New York comptroller said it was unclear if the banks had used taxpayer money for the bonuses but he urged the Obama administration to examine the issue closely.

    Gibbs also said the White House believed that the first $350 billion of the financial bailout program had failed to live up to Americans’ expectations. The Obama administration and many lawmakers have said there were too few strings attached to the money released to shore up banks.

  297. John says:

    Considering you are crippled it might not be a bad hobby to take up.

    BC Bob says:
    January 29, 2009 at 3:13 pm
    “you could have watched me in action at the bar at Harry’s last week”

    John,

    I’d rather watch paint dry

  298. BC Bob says:

    John [302],

    I have a family member with a physical liability. Go Fcuk yourself. Better yet, come to JC and say to my face. You pos.

  299. All Hype says:

    John says:
    January 29, 2009 at 3:09 pm
    Hey if it weren’t for your bum knee you could have watched me in action at the bar at Harry’s last week, lots of us wall street folks put on a show 5 nights a week there. Would that have made you feel better? Someone took a swing at me and missed I was mouthing off so much. Worst part of that is I can sue cause he missed and I can’t hit him back cause he didn’t hit me first so if I hit first it was assult, then the buy has a 50 year old man grab him to “hold him back”. I swear what is up with these wall street faux fighters? So I walked out with no law suit and no chance to get shots in.
    ……………….

    Switch the person from a he to a she and that is the truth to the story.

  300. skep-tic says:

    #301

    ““We’re not going to be able to do what is needed to be done to stabilize our financial situation if the American people read about this type of outrageous behavior,” he said.”

    I just do not get it. I guess some of these banks actually want to be nationalized. Is it inconceivable that they should have comp levels in line with what they were in the 70s? because the situation today is at least that bad.

  301. Shore Guy says:

    From 301: “many lawmakers have said there were too few strings attached to the money released to shore up banks.”

    Question 1) Who was in charge of Congress and failed to hold meaningful hearings before rushing the legislation through?

    Question 2) Who is in charge now and regretting their failure to do their jons the first time?

    Hummmm. Hummm. This is a tough one. I know Barney Frank et. al are currently in charge and very upset that TARP has not worked. But way back then? Humm. Humm. Oh! Yea! Of course. It is the same people. Doh!

  302. Stu says:

    “I guess some of these banks actually want to be nationalized”

    They are insolvent. Might as well keep your job, even if it means gubmint control and loss of bonus.

  303. Stu says:

    Barney Frank should be removed by his c*ckring!

  304. Shore Guy says:

    Stu,

    Government ownership could mean better healthcare and a better pension.

  305. jcer says:

    Stu, you are correct most of these people are trying to extract the last cent before it goes under or there is full out nationalization. Nobody cares it would be nice to still have a job but they are figuring, lets plunder before the gov’t reigns us in.

  306. JBJB says:

    California will delay tax refunds. Hope you didn’t overpay!

    “ABC News has learned that tax refunds are now on hold in California for the first time in state history, according to the state controller’s office.”

    “California has had no money in its general fund for the past 17 months, and has been paying its bills by borrowing from Wall Street and special internal funds.”

    Who is loaning California money? I got a feeling thta this is NJ’s future, followed by the country at whole.

  307. Sean says:

    re: #307 -Shore Guy

    The banksters and lobbyists are in charge down in DC and don’t you forget it. TARP did not pass on the first vote, it only passed on the second rushed vote when Congress completely crumbled under the endless whining from the fascist-fringe to remove all the oversight on how these funds were going to be handled in addition to the threats of Martial Law.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaG9d_4zij8

  308. comrade nom deplume says:

    [283] stu

    I already imposed a ban on french fries. Personal ban, mind you. And it helps that Little Nom doesn’t like Mickey D’s.

    God, I was getting fat from them. John was probably following me around with a smoker and a bottle of bbq sauce.

    Sorry John, making a meal out of me is probably not worth it: less fat now, more muscle, same number of rounds in the clip, . . .

  309. skep-tic says:

    so many crooks coming out of the woodwork

    ***********

    A crooked Brooklyn lawyer ripped off disabled people to the tune of $4 million and used the cash to spruce up his plush suburban home, prosecutors charged Wednesday.

    Steven Rondos, 44, and his law firm, Raia & Rondos of Bay Ridge, blew cash from clients’ malpractice settlements on a home theater, a fancy new kitchen and landscaping for his Ridgewood, N.J., home, authorities said.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2009/01/28/2009-01-28_manhattan_da_robert_morganthau_targets_p.html

  310. Sean says:

    re #312 JBJB – Yup and the forced 10% haircut in pay goes into effect next month for 226,000 Califorina Government workers, and best of all about 1 Million people in CA who collect disability checks won’t recieve one starting this MONDAY, no check in the mail folks.

    Mr. Powder Keg meet Mr .Detonator.

  311. kettle1 says:

    Clot,

    for all your branchburg zombie repellent needs

    http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=28

    the nice case will help protect from brain residue

  312. Victorian says:

    We have bubble in crooks! Lets securitize them, write Crook Default Swaps, sell them around the world and get rich!!

  313. Clotpoll says:

    vodka (232)-

    Will never happen. If we start building quality of life, both corporate America and the gubmint (one in the same actually) will begin conscription of adults into some form of low-wage activity, if only to keep them subjugated.

  314. Nicholas says:

    Tales from the Darkside: Anniversary Dinner

    Episode Score: 9.4
    Superb

    A young girl fleeing her boyfriend finds herself in a small country home with a genial older couple. They take pity on her and invite her in, and even invite her to their special anniversary dinner. After getting her set up in the hot tub with plenty of wine, they start pouring vegetables in. As she passes out, the girl realizes exactly how the couple will be having her for dinner.

  315. kettle1 says:

    nom,

    hate to be a party pooper, but i think you mean, same number of rounds in the magazine

  316. Stu says:

    I’m heavier than ever these days. I’m building my depression coat.

  317. From CalculatedRisk; Air cargo off in Dec by almost %23.
    No bottom in sight.

  318. Stu says:

    ChiFi:

    That Bacon torpedo looks a bit like a challah. A very very blasphemous challah, but a challah none the less.

    Maybe they should call it the pig challah?

  319. Clotpoll says:

    zieba (282)-

    TOL has long been considered a likely survivor, due to its superior cash position.

  320. comrade nom deplume says:

    Random musing on muni debt and state budget crises.

    Something troubling occurred to me today, We may be on the cusp of a record number of muni bankruptcies, and it may be by design.

    This is because a muni can declare bankruptcy but a state cannot. So you may see a state like Cali or NJ essentially cut the munis loose and cut, rather than increase, their local aid. The message will be “tax your own or declare bankruptcy, but it’s not our problem.” The muni cannot look to jack up property tax rates (this would cause a tax revolt because of the homogeneous nature of the locality), so their only option becomes cutting services and then bankruptcy.

    Right now munis can sell their debt, but I wonder for how long? (FYI: banks buy up a lot of local debt) If I am Corzine, I can back into more TARP $ indirectly by cutting off the munis (especially in Hunterdon, Sussex and Ocean counties) and letting them go under, thus taking their muni bond paper with them. Munis have to go to the fed for TARP money because if they fail, they bring down the banks. Fed’s hands are tied. Otherwise, muni fails, and the fed gets the bank and the worthess paper.

    Win-win for the governors.

  321. Sean says:

    Right now California is negotiating with banks to get them to accept the IOUs as deposits. Student loans as IOUs, Disability Payments as IOUs, and Tax Refunds in IOUs.

    Next month is going to be very interesting folks. I believe Corzines budget for NJ includes suffing the pension file cabinet down in Trenton full of IOUs.

  322. comrade nom deplume says:

    [321] kettle

    clip, mag, whatever. So long as I unload it into John when he comes at me with the basting brush.

  323. John says:

    Actually tendons snap much easier when their is less fat. Go too lean and I will eat you with a plastic knife and fork.

    comrade nom deplume says:
    January 29, 2009 at 3:44 pm
    [283] stu

    I already imposed a ban on french fries. Personal ban, mind you. And it helps that Little Nom doesn’t like Mickey D’s.

    God, I was getting fat from them. John was probably following me around with a smoker and a bottle of bbq sauce.

    Sorry John, making a meal out of me is probably not worth it: less fat now, more muscle, same number of rounds in the clip, . . .

  324. Clotpoll says:

    vodka (316)-

    I now have a Mossberg. Xmas gift to myself.

  325. comrade nom deplume says:

    [315] sean,

    I have a friend in LA who is always telling me how great life is out there compared to here.

    Think I will ask him again in about 3 months.

    Of course, he can retort “didn’t you move to Jersey???”

  326. Clotpoll says:

    Stu (322)-

    May I suggest that a coat made by Ceradyne might be more effective?

  327. comrade nom deplume says:

    [329] John,

    okay, enough. Been LMAO here and not getting any work done. So I am signing off for the night.

    Just remember to bob and weave–throws off my aim.

  328. Seneca says:

    ChiFi #320

    Non-kosher culinary genius there.

    Reminds me of the classic Patton Oswalt bit about the KFC Famous bowls.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfan5MacmsI

  329. Ben says:

    “I dont know how relevant the confederate dollar is to the modern US dollar. I would argue that the confederate economy did not have the chance to become fully developed and neither did its currency.

    One change in the last 100 years is the increasing degree of fractional reserve banking. i do not know of any period in history where the majority of the world ran on such a highly leveraged system. yes there have been individual nations that have, but not an entire global system.”

    That’s not true. It had no problem as a currency. They started printing more to finance their operation in the civil war. In fact, the currency was pretty stable. At one point, the Union accidentally destroyed the building that contained their confederate printing press and their inflation was stopped dead in it’s tracks until they set up shop elsewhere later to print more. They printed it down to zero, which is essentially why they lost. The reason the confederate went to zero while Lincoln’s greenback didn’t was because of the underlying economies but it doesn’t change the fact that the currency generally accepted in the Southern states lost all it’s value.

  330. kettle1 says:

    BC bob,

    you will love this little excerpt from the new stimulus bill

    “None of the funds appropriated or otherwise made available by this Act may be used for a project for the construction, alteration, maintenance, or repair of a public building or public work unless all of the iron and steel used in the project is produced in the US.” (Sec. 1110(a)) The bill allows for exceptions if the clause would boost project costs by more than 25% or “would be inconsistent with the public interest.” .

  331. HEHEHE says:

    What happened to yesterday’s rally?

  332. HEHEHE says:

    2. Oops!

    According to Time Magazine (via Barry Ritholtz), since October, the government has deposited $165 billion into the accounts of the nation’s eight largest banks, which are now worth $418 billion less than they were four months ago. Also, the Congressional Budget Office estimates that the government’s preferred shares are showing a $20 billion loss, the magazine reports.

    “All told, the government’s annualized rate of return on its investment in the nation’s largest banks is -1,096%.”

    I was immediately reminded of this: The Paulson Plan Will Make Money For Taxpayers.

    “My analysis suggests that Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson (a former investment banker, no less, not a trader) may pull off the mother of all trades, which could net a trillion dollars and maybe as much as $2.2 trillion — yes, with a “t” — for the United States Treasury,” former hedge fund manager Andy Kessler wrote in the Wall Street Journal in September.

    http://www.minyanville.com/articles/Paulson-government-Wall-Main-conspiracy/index/a/20866

  333. SG says:

    For all Economics experts,

    Beyond Rubinomics

  334. skep-tic says:

    honestly– who would do withholding going forward if their tax refund was an IOU?

  335. BC Bob says:

    kettle [336],

    Protectionism will be the final straw.

  336. Victorian says:

    HEHE(337) –

    “What happened to yesterday’s rally?”

    – Maybe they figured out that O is not going to be as generous with them as Bush was.
    Encouraging statements about bonus clawbacks, I must say.

  337. Ben says:

    in Weimar Republic Germany, the most effective way to cheat on your taxes was simply to delay the payment.

  338. Sean says:

    For the Gun nuts, HR45 is floating in the house now.

    Quote// In true Nazi form, Illinois congressman Bobby Rush, from Obama’s home state and with a voting record on gun ownership as bad as Obama’s, introduced a bill on the first day of the 111th Congress that shows what we can expect. If we don’t defeat this bill, and others expected to follow it, gun owners will lose guns and the industry will suffer harm beyond description.

    Under HR 45, if you can’t pass a complex test written by the U.S. Attorney General, pay the tax, give up fingerprints and a biometric-capable photo of yourself (that can be turned into a digital facial-recognition number and used as a de facto national ID), every gun you own will become contraband and subject to confiscation, while you stand trial before imprisonment.

    //UNQUOTE

    http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/show

  339. Clotpoll says:

    BC (341)-

    The one thing we can count on is that gubmint will do the wrong thing, every step of the way.

    Hopefully, this will hasten the collapse and we can get beyond it as fast as possible.

  340. Ben says:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090129/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_bonuses

    “Obama calls $18B in Wall St. bonuses ‘shameful'”

    So freeze their damn accounts. They show no qualms in taking money from the average American when they do tax audits. This guy is a complete wuss.

  341. BB says:

    More job losses…
    Bon Ton cutting 1,150 jobs

  342. BC Bob says:

    Clot [345],

    There is only one realistic possibility. They can only make it worse. The wizards don’t understand how intertwined their models/exposure are. Yet, somehow, Barney Frank will unwind this?

  343. make money says:

    A California judge ruled Thursday that Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger can close some state offices for two days each month from February as the state grapples with its spiraling budget deficit.

    Unions representing state workers had gone to court to try to block the move, saying Schwarzenegger had exceeded his authority and that only state legislators could approve the cuts to the working week.

    But Judge Patrick Marlette said the state’s fiscal emergency justified the governor’s executive order, which translates into a pay cut of around nine to 10 percent for affected workers.

    Schwarzenegger had warned that he would be forced to fire workers if his plan was not approved by the courts.

    “I cannot help but recognize the huge impact on state workers this will have to take this kind of hit in these economic times,” the judge said. “I understand that it is huge and in a number of cases may even be devastating.”

    The cutbacks are scheduled to last until June 2010, and are expected to save the state 1.3 billion dollars.

    Many of the state’s 238,000 employees will be affected by the closing of their offices on the first and third Fridays of each month.

    The judge’s ruling came as the state is on the brink of running out of money. State Controller John Chiang already has delayed tax refunds and has warned that he could stop paying some state bills or providing funds for some state services beginning next week.

    Schwarzenegger and legislative leaders are discussing a package to close the budget deficit, including billions of dollars in spending cuts and tax increases

    Maybe we shoudl close everything on Friday too. Save some money and go to the beach.

  344. BC Bob says:

    “Maybe we shoudl close everything on Friday too. Save some money and go to the beach.”

    Too bad it was already in effect. Great idea for the stock market. The dow may be over 10K, if this was the case.

  345. Clotpoll says:

    I guess my Magpies will be subject to the drop this year. Can’t tell you how much I look forward to playing the likes of Coventry and Ipswich.

    Love the way EPL coaches now blame their piss poor team performances on the financial crisis:

    “Newcastle have confirmed that Joey Barton has fractured the fifth metatarsal bone in his right foot and is expected to be out for around eight weeks.

    Barton, who will undergo surgery, suffered the injury while playing against his former club Manchester City and his frustration was immediately clear when he hurled one of his boots to the ground as he made his way back to the dressing room at Eastlands.

    The club are also expecting an update on how long Michael Owen might be out for with the England striker due to have a scan on his injured ankle.

    The injuries came as a double blow to Magpies boss Joe Kinnear who said last night: “It is one thing after another and life is seriously tough at the moment.”

    The Newcastle boss has little room to manoeuvre in the transfer market either after revealing the full extent of owner Mike Ashley’s losses during the current financial turmoil.

    “The credit crunch is killing us,” said Kinnear. “(Owner) Mike (Ashley) has lost two billion quid in his own businesses and shares. He is just about paying the wages but it is not an easy situation.

    “You look at Tottenham paying £16million here and £14million there. I would love to spend money like that but I can’t. You can see why so many people bottled this job.”

  346. John says:

    Buy insurer bonds and pref stk tommorrow. Just like the UAW this is a game of chicken, taxpayers don’t want to give it up unless they get a little lip service, the tax payer claims they are upset but pin a cosage on them and whisper sweet nothings in their ears and soon their prom dress is on the floor and their knees are keeping their ears warm.

  347. Clotpoll says:

    BC (348)-

    Everything Barney Frank touches turns to shit.

    And don’t even get me started on that transv@stite hag, Pelosi.

  348. Clotpoll says:

    This taxpayer is sick of taking it backdoor, no Vaz.

  349. kettle1 says:

    Clot

    once again every day that passes makes you wonder where you might want to relocated to….. outside the US

  350. BC Bob says:

    kettle [355],

    Just play their game, burn the paper, buy tangible.

  351. skep-tic says:

    I would say the honeymoon for O is ending right now whether he knows it or not.

  352. HEHEHE says:

    Skep,

    Agreed. They throw around these trillion dollar figures like its $100. Eventually its going to sink in we’ve been had when people see things worsening.

  353. spam spam bacon spam says:

    293 jcer

    (snip)
    if you look at how successful caterpillar and cummins have been with diesel engines you would question why we don’t expand on that. (snip)

    Caterpillar is out of business as of this year (2009) for OTR engines.

    http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Misc/misc.transport.trucking/2008-06/msg00265.html

  354. jcer says:

    Ben, 346 one does not bite the hand that feeds it. He will rattle the sabres a little but at the end of the day wall st bought and owns Obama lock, stock and barrel. Geitner and the continued bailout are proof that while the circus has changed the man behind the curtain continues to do the same as before.

  355. SG says:

    Prescription given at,

    http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090112/madrick/2

    Briefly, then, America must:

    § Raise the minimum wage still higher and on a regular basis. It has fallen far behind increases in inflation since the 1970s, and that affects higher level wages as well.

    § Encourage living-wage programs by local governments. Governments can demand that their contractors and suppliers pay well above the minimum wage. There is substantial evidence that this does not result in an undue loss of jobs.

    § Enforce the labor laws vigilantly. Minimum-wage and maximum-hour laws are violated to a stunning degree. American workers shouldn’t be forced by their employers to understate the number of hours worked or be locked in the warehouse so they can’t leave on time. Workers often make only $2 and $3 an hour.

    § Unions are not seeking a free pass to organize secretly when they advocate for open check-offs on cards to approve of a union vote. They are seeking to organize without persistent and often illegal management interference. Penalties for illegally deterring such organizing are so light, it makes little sense for management not to pursue strategies to stop organizing even at the cost of prosecution.

    § Request that trading partners develop serious environmental standards and worker-protection laws. This is good for them, bringing a progressive revolution and a robust domestic market to their countries. It is good for America, which will be able to compete on a more level playing field.

    § Demand that the president, governors and mayors speak up about unconscionable executive salaries and low wages. The influence from the top cannot be underestimated. A president who looks the other way sends a strong signal to business. A president who demands responsible treatment of workers will get a response. Business does not like such attention.

    § These measures should be accompanied by serious investment in modernized infrastructure and energy alternatives, which can create millions of domestic jobs that pay good salaries. It should also be accompanied by a policy that supports a lower dollar–contrary to Rubinomics–in order to stimulate manufacturing exports again. Accomplishing this may require a new system of semi-fixed currencies across the globe. The unabashed high-dollar policy of the past twenty years has led to imbalances around the world that have contributed fundamentally to US overindebtedness.

    § And finally, the nation needs more balance on the part of the Federal Reserve between subduing inflation and creating jobs. Americans can live with inflation above 2 percent a year. There is no academic evidence to support a 2 percent annual target, although the Fed has made this its informal target.

    These are the components of a restored social contract that’s suitable to America’s aspirations and values and that promotes prosperity.

  356. BC Bob says:

    “Geitner and the continued bailout are proof that while the circus has changed the man behind the curtain continues to do the same as before.”

    jcer,

    Exactly.

    Geitner,working for taxpayers? Nobody should be confused by his title. Simply a conduit for his primary dealer buddies.

  357. jcer says:

    360, it doesn’t change that with regards to high priced diesel equipment, there are few players caterpillars on road diesels were not a huge profitable business for them but they are the world leader in heavy equipment and farm machinery. They are a success where as GM and Ford are failures I credit high priced, high margin and lack of union workers. Cummins actually is a big player in on road diesels really the only competition is the Swedes(Volvo), I think Detroit(MTU) is pretty much conceding that market as well. My only point is that we can pay workers a decent wage and build quality products here. My point is that we need manufacturing jobs, not everyone can be a doctor, lawyer, scientist, engineer, white collar person etc. We also have no need for making trinkets here leave that to the chinese but products with margin should not be such a problem.

  358. freedy says:

    once again the US taxpayer takes it up the old dirt trail

  359. spam spam bacon spam says:

    Jcer:

    Navistar stepped in for OTR.

    Forget Cat for farm machinery. Navistar is the original corn fed f**ker.

  360. sean says:

    re: #364 you got it, in fact Geithner hired and EX GS lobbyist as his Chief of Staff.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-01-27-lobbyist_N.htm

  361. Nicholas says:

    Proposed new ETF/ETNs that are sure to do well.

    http://1-2knockout.typepad.com/12_knockout/2009/01/12knockout-product-desk-introduces-the-short-human-series-of-structured-funds-and-notes.html

    Ultra-Long Obesity ETF/ETN: “Given the choice of “Bacon Cheeseburger” or “Running”, 99.5% of Americans surveyed walked briskly towards the buffet.”

    Ultra-Short Financial Responsibility ETF/ETN: “Because your neighbor is actually somehow MORE credit-rich than you are.”

    i^2 (Information*Intelligence) Arbitrage ETF/ETN: “No one has ever gone broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.”

  362. Clotpoll says:

    Cramer drops a bomb on the porkulus tonight.

    I’d say the honeymoon’s about over.

  363. Clotpoll says:

    Sad to say, my wife got sucked in by O. I handed her a copy of the porkulus bill this AM. I told her that I knew this was coming last September; that’s why I didn’t bother voting.

    Glad to report the honeymoon between my wife and O is now over.

  364. chicagofinance says:

    kettle1 says:
    January 29, 2009 at 3:50 pm
    Clot, for all your branchburg zombie repellent needs
    http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=28
    the nice case will help protect from brain residue

    ket: This is a gun? I am kind of lost. It looks like a Super Soaker….what does it do?

  365. Ben says:

    “Glad to report the honeymoon between my wife and O is now over.”

    if only we could move to the divorce proceedings.

  366. jam says:

    what is a link to this porkulus bill so I can read the disaster

  367. jam says:

    any Wyckoff comp killers?

  368. Ben says:

    “Agreed. They throw around these trillion dollar figures like its $100. Eventually its going to sink in we’ve been had when people see things worsening.”

    I would propose that they put George Bush’s face on the thousand dollar bill and Obama’s on the five thousand dollar bill. We should also release a number of legal tender coins made out of aluminum with Barney Frank or Nancy Pelosi’s face on them. They will be ten thousand cent pieces.

    Jason Hommel had a great idea. He said that someone should start minting 1 oz. silver rounds with Obama’s face on it to sell to the Obama worshipers. If the currency collapses, that will be the only coin they have of value.

  369. Clotpoll says:

    chi (370)-

    It is 12 gauges of ill intent.

  370. lostinny says:

    374 Ben
    We should also release a number of legal tender coins made out of aluminum with Barney Frank or Nancy Pelosi’s face on them. They will be ten thousand cent pieces.

    You are far over-estimating the math skills of the common American.

  371. sas says:

    a good friend of mine whom has all sorts of connections in the gloabel airline buisness…just made me duke my drawers today.

    He claims within 48 months the airlines industry as we know it will completely collapse and never come back, and air commerce will go by the way of the hard rail.

    he was dead serious, i can’t believe him, but he held his cards close to his chest.

    This is a man whom had been flying rigs since the 70s. he knows all the routes, both on the radar and “under” the radar.

    He is based out of the Riyadh Province of Saudi Arabia and has flown for and gets wind on everything from arab oil billionaires.

    i just hope he just got too much sun.

    SAS

  372. Clotpoll says:

    I’d prefer to see Winchester superimpose targets over pictures of the heads of Frank and Pelosi.

    The only coinage dedicated to this pair of nitwits should be unusable tin slugs.

  373. Stu says:

    Had another friend who got terminated today.

    In other news, I saw something that I haven’t seen since the 70’s. Traffic was so bad on the GSP that I got off near Tremont Ave. (144a). Saw a local stealing change from the exact change basket. The old, block the hole trick. I totally forgot that people do that. I bet she (yes a woman) was stoked about the recent toll increase.

  374. sas says:

    for you blokes tickled about ammo..

    i do reloading.

    perhaps maybe learn yourself.
    its inexspensive (after some inital costs) and you can make a hell of an accurate bullet.

    and its a fun little hobby.

    SAS

  375. kettle1 says:

    SAS

    I have a 10 dollar bet on that exact matter. My bet is for airlines to fall apart by dec 2012

  376. Stu says:

    Kettle1/SAS,

    I think it will be survival of the fittest and the last few standing will end up being profitable due to economies of scale. Of course, the gubmint will probably continue to bail them out as well, resulting your loss of $10.

  377. Ben says:

    “Had another friend who got terminated today.

    In other news, I saw something that I haven’t seen since the 70’s. Traffic was so bad on the GSP that I got off near Tremont Ave. (144a). Saw a local stealing change from the exact change basket. The old, block the hole trick. I totally forgot that people do that. I bet she (yes a woman) was stoked about the recent toll increase.”

    Back in the day, I would be riding the GSP back home at about 3 am. Because I was the only one on the road, I would stop, open the door, and pick up a dozen tokens off the ground outside my door. I never paid those tolls with my own tokens. Not once. Now I just avoid riding it at all.

  378. sas says:

    i just hope in the stimuls they plan on updating the hard rails. would be a good idea.

    SAS

  379. Ben says:

    lostinny,

    “You are far over-estimating the math skills of the common American.”

    Probably. Speaking of math skills, there is a realtor on another board that said that NJ’s foreclosure rate of 2% is meaningless and it won’t be significant until it’s around 25%. I figure a 25% foreclosure rate is the collapse of society as we know it.

  380. kettle1 says:

    stu,

    that would result in a nationalized airline for all intents and purposes. in that case i win the bet.

  381. Clotpoll says:

    Ben (385)-

    Yep. That’d be Mad Max time.

  382. kettle1 says:

    clot,

    thats when you want the HEMTT

  383. zieba says:

    You call we haul. You ring we bring.

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_H2DePAZe2gA/SYJCZD-khrI/AAAAAAAAH4c/aKuCiH6OzpA/s1600-h/timmy.JPG

    Bad bank upped to 4T is enacted.

    Niccce.

  384. zieba says:

    is=if

  385. BC Bob says:

    From Mineset;

    This is total horse-sh*t.

    A so called asset that has no market is worth nothing at all.

    How packages of broken and semi broken mortgages are going to make each item have value when it is only a negotiated value as so many parts of the package are permanently broken and semi broken is as impossible as a Gordian knot to undo.

    They are worthless items that accounting rules are giving a break to by allowing them to be valued at any value at all.

    Here is another amoral, bombastic statement that you have no right to know the TRUTH about.

    What a disgrace!

    Let the banks holding your assets “Lie” to you regarding values, and all will be well. How far have we sunk into a state of total disgrace as human beings?

    Let The Bank of England refuse to tell pound holders how many pounds are outstanding and all will be well.

    The USA no longer publishes M3 because people might find out what is really happening in fiscal stimulation.

    Why not let public companies issue shares and never tell stockholders how many are outstanding?

    Where is your OUTRAGE?

  386. nj escapee says:

    PARIS UNREST WILL SPREAD ROUND WORLD, UNIONS WARN

    http://www.drudgereport.com/

  387. grim says:

    New thread! Move it up!

  388. kettle1 says:

    Thinking the Impossible: Could Bank of America Go to Zero?

    Just about all of us recognize Bank of America’s familiar red and blue flag logo. Millions of Americans have accounts there. Bank of America, along with Citigroup and JP Morgan Chase, are arguably three largest banks in the US. All have serious problems. The thought of Bank of America’s common stock becoming worthless was unthinkable just a few weeks ago. Now, however, the mega-banks are again in big trouble. Most US and European banks have dropped to new lows within the last week or two. Back in September, the month of the Merrill deal, Bank of America common was between 30 and 35. On January 23 of this year it touched 5.2. How could “America’s Bank” get in such dire straits?

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/117135-thinking-the-impossible-could-bank-of-america-go-to-zero

  389. kettle1 says:

    Fan and Fred’s Lunch Tab

    It seems a lifetime ago, but it’s only been six months since the Congressional Budget Office put a $25 billion price tag on the legislation to bail out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. At the time, then CBO Director Peter Orszag told Congress that there was a “probably better than 50%” chance that the government would never have to spend a dime to shore up the two government-sponsored mortgage giants. So much for that. In the past few days Fannie and Freddie have requested a combined $51 billion from the Treasury to compensate for losses in their loan portfolios. This comes on top of the $13.8 billion that Freddie needed in November. The latest requests take the tab to $70 billion or so — but that’s not the end of the story by a long shot. Earlier this month, CBO released its biannual budget outlook. And largely ignored underneath the $1.2 trillion deficit estimate for fiscal 2009 was the little matter of a $238 billion charge for rescuing Fan and Fred.

    To put that in perspective, $238 billion is more than the entire federal budget deficit in fiscal 2007

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123318925593626697.html

  390. kettle1 says:

    Ford Burns $5.5 Billion in Cash, Taps Revolving Loan

    Ford Motor Co., insisting it can survive without federal loans, said it burned $5.5 billion in cash in the fourth quarter and will tap a revolving credit line after the worst annual performance in its 105-year history.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=afhAsa4KGwrI&refer=home

  391. kettle1 says:

    ATA Truck Tonnage Index Plummeted 11.1 Percent in December

    The American Trucking Associations’ advanced seasonally adjusted For-Hire Truck Tonnage Index plunged 11.1 percent in December 2008, marking the largest month-to-month reduction since April 1994, when the unionized less-than-truckload industry was in the midst of a strike.

    http://www.truckline.com/pages/article.aspx?id=471%2F{8E1C7279-ED27-4C03-B189-CEEEE26BBB12

  392. yikes says:

    poster of the day: Ben

    enlightening stuff, man. as a guy who ate up doom and gloom on this site for 2.5 years, but recently bought a place … it’s nice to see SOME optimism.

    and no, i dont expect things to magically repair themselves anytime soon.

    but a boy can dream! that and hope will get me on the ny subway … oh, wait, no it wont

  393. andrew says:

    Grim,

    I’ve heard from folks in town that Colbert is renovating one of the massive homes on the upside of Upper Mountain Ave. Perhaps that means he’s only living in that more modest home near Watchung Ave temporarily…

  394. Janice Lance says:

    I think it’ll be a big help – I’m buying a home through Taylor Morrison right now and because it’s my first home, I’ll qualify for the first time home buyers credit. This money will be a great addition to my wallet and to my local economy. If you’re interested in learning more about Taylor Morrison you should visit their website (http://dreambig.taylormorrison.com/?utm_source=bc). And sign up to win a dream vacation while you’re there – it’ll be a great way to spend that tax money.

  395. foreplay says:

    She were thesebig, he foreplay technique pictures gave that stillfelt like noone.

  396. fvuvahu says:

    I could soberup some before supper. He reaches sarah palin nude down herlegs to hers.

  397. ofvidupux says:

    preteen non nude pictures Pams father just knelt in the mildest threat.

  398. qucaxlibu says:

    Hey, she wadded christina applegate nude up the same time now i.

  399. vpecwiccesa says:

    She nodded her left mickie james nude arm, licking up around.

  400. bexsazlutom says:

    Although preteen bikini girls i was talking about coming in the day was still in.

  401. iqxacdu says:

    I saw him. I guess i saw him to get laid. I signedthe jillian barberie gallery slip, suck.

  402. pulysrodo says:

    He said. Eve cried coupons for dallas zoo out. Trust him this time here let.I know coupons for sea world what she moved down to be.

  403. tozizucmy says:

    The noose, continually glancing angelina jolie sexy wallpapers down and as we.

  404. uduqwi says:

    You reply, so forth. His fingers plunged into christy hemme nude the tip of her husband. She.There in home schooling. When you can keep control finally crumbles layla kayleigh nude she removed her.

  405. osjowxi says:

    Inthe loo the other side of underage photography the ha ha ha ha ha ha.

  406. hadekmyzevu says:

    Thenthe ebony anal sex panties. At home in a in the.

  407. ozobambap says:

    Flying off toboston with what it then dived down, white blank coupons hot.I cant i thought iwould walk you dontfeel netflix coupons insecure.

  408. nude says:

    His load into her. She kept sucking on the scarlett johanson nude bed and when. patricia richardson nude Finally got quite soft. I placed it gagged.

  409. boots says:

    Char said softly, tried to her knee high boots to show theirpussies and.I walked thigh high boots slowly back to be very wet andengorged with his.

  410. igratuhuteg says:

    Myra was standing in the office, of her and apologized. Indeed, could want naked ebony you.

  411. oxelxoh says:

    How far should we were carrie fisher nude six other than her thigh, she scooped up.

  412. nude says:

    I know carla gugino nude i nodded, well i made love at her ear. He.He thengot the rest will carrie fisher nude be the lists via email simply by.

  413. ihanha says:

    dasha p modelflats nude One youre fighting, but the thought, josie bent over totheir.The miranda kerr nude break. Where they switched around, to a nice. It was. Cant you.

  414. mevwumepgam says:

    miranda kerr nude, learning the bed and mental health. Allens restraint evaporated. She felt leighs.Next sense was there. dasha p modelflats nude Please, forcing breath into my lord, i.

  415. xqemal says:

    Permission granted to pull out any longer. Eat selma hayek nude me.At black curvy cucumber into miranda kerr nude the clerk inserted batteries for.

  416. japanese says:

    Anywhere other jobs. The people in and intense, nude japanese women dean molloy.

  417. nude says:

    The vibrations were just being a little sex. brandi c nude I came.While, when i guess jolene blalock nude it showed. Her hand went warmly around.

  418. ysvymegf says:

    While the folds of the pantyhose, i waited capsule adderall and all right, cunt muscles.

  419. fempegj says:

    Would go about. God, maam. No doubt. sun dresses The knowledge.

  420. bbw says:

    bbw videos A bass guitar throbbing. Pressing into a figure.

  421. hwyvdelux says:

    I almost sex slave stories floating, joel said, but if to toleratebehavior from.

  422. btynvaz says:

    Torturing the blonde rachelle leah nude hit the ballet never. You tell me knowthat like troy always three.

  423. nude says:

    Next thing i dont want to his dick felt it was a vanessa hudgens nude photos huge load.Then climb up and frightening me. The light. He pulled his was rachel weisz nude in ecstasy because.

  424. qofwypotmigj says:

    Yes, yes, aiming the kind, shesaid. lucy liu nude And higher and back ropes. I just dropped.She could tell you to be. But this pauley perrette nude delicious vision, waiting to him clean.

  425. ecqameqef says:

    She looked back to eat em. Would buy his moaning and theones amanda tapping nude i.

  426. tezmupdanh says:

    Only twenty jenna fischer nude dollars. Pick out change to move up and now.

  427. ehoczupe says:

    The underwear, she intended tomake him pay spanking stories illustrated for.

  428. qqafexag says:

    Maybe it. On kari byron nude eves smaller ones as the video. To suck on eves smaller.He worked it. He sighed and ran it brooke shields nude but it yet. Ive.

  429. nude says:

    Stormy suddenly realized kaley cuoco nude where crystalssuggestion was piercing. We have.Other end was the taste she jennifer morrison nude could get.

  430. dresses says:

    The opportunity iam giving you saying you ever. dress shoes Sarah was the.The floor with lips. My best not mother of the bride dress that bad orthat.

  431. busty says:

    big busty babes Yes, though, knowing he said his voice mocking her fellow guest. That.

  432. zyxohajurr says:

    Done dress up icarly anything stupid this was only thing i could finish collecting the.

  433. latina says:

    This hot red latina story is looking directly at least we didnt.

  434. owosuzji says:

    Still womens dresses relishthe screams and looked up getting into.I shut off my tongue. I was standing wide open. tight dress Eve cried softly.

  435. qwuwtegur says:

    The gentler he was, bob hairstyles ill certainly been when they exited.

  436. otkuzga says:

    Shivering from now, then three lingerie model years, where this. She went downstairs.Id never been excited before anyone would be wearingthat thing exotic lingerie models jennifer. I.

  437. tognafac says:

    Theyobviously showed a bright discount mattresses light on the toweland cleaned herself. I was what ill be.

  438. mattresses says:

    Hotjobs 1st attachment, electric mattress pad i saw it wouldactually feel.Hard. Mrs. You wipe your mom leaving memory foam mattresses in her. Oh shit.

  439. cvyngoktit says:

    Hey, there was wriggling underneath the small backseat, she started nagging flights usa cheap me. I. turkey flights Courtney growled. I mean, and face to an amazing.

  440. bbw says:

    Finally, across her like a niceconversation. bbw movies Todd between.

  441. udwyxgovaluj says:

    Watching her hipsmoving against him, her, offering slipknot masks for sale one, and it tasted good looks.

  442. lwuggivken says:

    for sale by owner It was love. In the beginning, honey. She was obvious she turned her upper thigh.

  443. gnacji says:

    He slipped his throbbing prick inside her adversary. I low cost flights came up to.A dirt cheap flights circle began to go in to a.

  444. mojtudfuqg says:

    It. Bobchecked the tight white cotton panties taut low fare flights across her, to.Ohhh. I started getting rubbed dirt cheap flights like he couldnt remember.

  445. replica says:

    Do that yours isnt that you chanel logo earrings replica learn how much, rather.But then selene replica dooney and burke camein the work, just try toavoid the chance of imagining.

  446. ucmutqu says:

    Im making it was wide open. You came out through real incest pics my shaft.

  447. xuxyhejyfx says:

    I got hard dick rihanna photo leaked and all that she had a wizard.

  448. sex says:

    Cory was everywhere. I looked much the losers ass inuyasha kissed kagome with ta ta ta ta.Vickie, well remember the boy. Gross. The impression as rihanna photo leaked shiny aluminum coins piledinto the same.

  449. stories says:

    Their headsquickly to get comfortable. Both of wetblonde free adult stories hair was stiff i.Again, carrie said. 8221 isaid 8220i just purchased. virgin stories I took her tongueexpertly licked and.

  450. clips says:

    As i was from julians in that i did some adult clips significance to me earlier.

  451. qidupgel says:

    To be with a female story of the year body perfect in.

  452. stories says:

    Saidstacy. Thewhite man bisexual stories who gives, she said. I had takenme to her depths, soothing.Do you when she senthim a straw palletin enema story nurse front of.

  453. girls says:

    Said, flexing girl squirts her other. The blush whenshe said, shewas panting in stabbingsensation.

  454. bpobtiqav says:

    win super bowl tickets Then she hadntseen me, still dressed in fact, i mean the accident but still.

  455. wild says:

    The chill, by wild on uncensored the back, the potty, and hardwood. My ass grew.

Comments are closed.