It’s official, the spring market was a BUST!

From Reuters:

Spring U.S. housing market fell short-Coldwell CEO

This year’s peak home-buying season was lackluster, as buyers seeking to trade up to larger houses were absent, said the head of one of the country’s largest real estate firms.

Jim Gillespie, president and chief executive of Coldwell Banker Real Estate LLC, in an interview with Reuters, said sales were only modest during the spring, with demand overwhelmingly dominated by first-time home buyers and investors.

“The more important ‘move-up’ buyers were absent and that is not encouraging,” said Gillespie, who is based in Parsippany, New Jersey.

Move-up buyers are those seeking to trade in their current home for a larger one, and Gillespie said that group is important for sustaining a healthy real estate market. Because of the sharp decline in housing prices and the collapse in consumer demand, homeowners are having difficulty selling their current homes to move up to pricier properties.

“They are key to a U.S. housing market recovery,” he said.

Gillespie said market realities have come to bear as well. As government bond yields rose, mortgage rates have naturally followed. The 30-year fixed-rate mortgage averaged 5.38 percent for the week ending June 18, according to a survey released on Thursday by home funding company Freddie Mac.

That was down from the previous week’s 5.59 percent, which was the highest level since November, but up sharply from the record low of 4.78 percent set the week ending April 2.

“Many people got spoiled by mortgage rates at 5 percent and below,” he said.

“When the mortgage rate rose above 5 percent, it spooked many buyers who were already hesitant,” he said.

This entry was posted in Housing Bubble, National Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

248 Responses to It’s official, the spring market was a BUST!

  1. Dentss says:

    third

  2. Pat says:

    you guys suck

  3. Pat says:

    J.B, you’re doing a spectacular job in the face of little contribution from the likes of us.

  4. fedgod says:

    I actually fit into this catergory (move-up buyer). I sold my house last week and couldn’t find anything worth bidding on. A whole lotta junk on the market. So now me and the family moved into a duplex. It’s just a waiting game……….

  5. Shore Guy says:

    Grim,

    Don’t be a spoilsport. That was then, this is now, and the future is filled with increasing prices. The summer market will show you. Just wait.

  6. Shore Guy says:

    Speaking of being “shown.”

    http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/06/riaa-jury-slaps-2-million-fine-on-jammie-thomas/

    Serves her right, not a Springsteen song in the list.

  7. safeashouses says:

    Gloria Estefan, Janet Jackson, arg. They should fine her 2 million for bad taste.

  8. House Whine says:

    Does anyone know how the real estate market is faring in terms of vacation home sales? Specifically, are there deals to be had in the Poconos or are prices holding steady? We are not in a rush, but I want to know if prices are trending downwards. Thanks.

  9. Shore Guy says:

    Safe,

    Mrs. Shore said the same thing just before I hit refresh and saw your comment.

    Other than Pour Sugar On Me, it is a prety bad list, and includes about the worst Aerosmith song ever recorded.

  10. Shore Guy says:

    House Whine,

    We have not yet seen the declines we are looking for in the OBX and PR.

  11. safeashouses says:

    #11 Shore Guy,

    Forcing a prisoner to listen to that list would be cruel and unusual punishment.

    Bryan Adams, Richard Marx, where’s my barf bag?

  12. House Whine says:

    12
    O.K. We are thinking of just going the rental route for a vacation place instead of burdening ourselves with upkeep and taxes, etc. Don’t know how feasible that is, but since we are still working we can’t spend a lot of time away in a second home anyway. Seems like one by one friends are buying some kind of second home. We are steering clear of timeshares.

  13. Shore Guy says:

    lisoosh,

    about the “head tax.”

    There is no way the men of America will ever allow such a thing. Besides, how would one collect it?

  14. Shore Guy says:

    “The $134B in Treasury bonds were fakes. Well, I don’t think anyone is really surprised by that.”

    Even if they were real, it would be in our best intertest to declare them fake and destroy them. That would teach a big lesson to any central bank trying to pull a fast one.

  15. kettle1 says:

    SHore,

    Its a new way to pay down the debt!!!! Hire 3rd party ghosts to arrange for a covert treasury transaction between 2 foreign nations. Ensure bonds are caught in transit, declare them fraudulent and destroy them…..

    Can i have a post at the treasury now?

  16. Joey says:

    “This year’s peak home-buying season was lackluster, as buyers seeking to trade up to larger houses were absent.” (from the main story)

    I feel that the very idea of a “starter home” is a sham that was sold to the public by the NAR so they could make more transactions.
    I remember reading somewhere that these days the average homeowner stays in a home somewhere between 5 and 7 years.
    I am simply astounded that people would be looking to “trade up” so soon after buying.
    I know many first time buyers at work who have purchased condos and town homes that will probably meet their needs for 5 to 10 years, but not the duration of their 30 year mortgages.
    You get married, have a kid, and all of a sudden a two bedroom condo isn’t as big as it used to seem.

    As a renter, I want the first house I buy to last me through my kids high school graduation (16 years away).
    Of course circumstances could arise that would cause us to move, but that’s the mindset I want to be in when I sign on the dotted line.
    My parents and my inlaws have both been in their homes for 30 years and it seems to me that it was more common in my parents generation than it is today.

    Is everyone else on this board looking to stay put that long, or am I just naive?

  17. Shore Guy says:

    Joey,

    We should have bought a larger place but we skipped the whole “starter home” thing. Just looking at an am schedule shows the folly of buying way too small then having to move if and when children come along. We have never regretted our decision.

  18. kettle1 says:

    Shore 15

    There is no way the men of America will ever allow such a thing

    I am afraid that the time when we as a nation would stand against such a thing and throw out the entire government for even suggesting such a thing is long past.

    The average joe now sees the government as a father figure who will protect them and keep them safe, while providing for them. Not as a necessary evil, one to keep a close watch on at all times

  19. House Whine says:

    Joey,
    I like the fact that I have been in my home for 20+ years but I never thought I would be here this long. Whenever we contemplated moving up, we realized we liked our street and we liked the memories we had of our kids growing up here. I do wish we had bought a slightly larger house, but I am happy with the size of the yard and the convenient location. Also, what stopped us from moving was the thought of paying even higher property taxes, not to mention packing up all our accumulated “stuff”. And moving itself is a big expense.

    Half my friends have moved up, a few more than once, but the other half have also been in their homes in NJ for over 20 years. I think the bigger home you have, the more stuff you find to fill it. My bet is I will be here another 10 years at least.

  20. Revelations says:

    Clot,
    Someone already had my idea of a ‘property protector/maintainer’ business on the west coast..

    http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/news/0906/gallery.recession_careers/6.html

    Now if Deutsche Bank is right and the NY Metro area is just getting started, this might be a good idea for anyone trying to fill a current gap in employment.

  21. Joey says:

    Shore Guy, House Whine,

    It’s good to know that there are still sane people left in this state.

  22. Revelations says:

    Joey,
    My wife and I are also not interested in trading up every few years. We’re saving for a longer term house. The question becomes, do we want to be ‘long term’ in NJ? With prices falling, we don’t feel much pressure to decide right away..

  23. EWellie says:

    Joey,

    I’m totally with you. I always cringe when I hear phrases like “starter home,” “first house,” and “property ladder.” (I know, the latter phrase is more of a UK term, but I hear it nonetheless in newspapers I read and the British television I watch.) My husband and I are proud renters who never once tried to buy during the bubble. People said we were crazy; we said they were. They bought houses and consider pizza a splurge. We live our lives and travel to Europe. Who’s crazy?

    Now that the market will become somewhat reasonable in the next year or so, we do plan on buying a house. It will be our home, not our “starter house” or an investment. That whole idea is a joke, and now there are a lot of people out there who are stuck in condos and other small quarters who aren’t laughing.

  24. Joey says:

    Revelations,

    I see no reason to make the decision quickly either. Heck, my landlord agreed to lower our rent when we extend our lease for another year. He says he’s never lowered anyone’s in 30 years in the business.

    Green Shoots!

  25. Joey says:

    lowered anyone’s rent

  26. Revelations says:

    Here’s a first. Got direct marketing in the mail today from a home-seller we bid on a long time ago. Asking us to note their new price and consider some improvements we may not have been aware of. I’m glad I haven’t bought yet, but I derive no pleasure from watching owners struggle. The thing is, we all got fleeced in the end.

    That’s why I think the biggest banks continued making nutty loans. They knew it would end badly at some point, but should sit back and get nothing during the party, only to suffer with everyone after the party? No, they what they could, while they could.

  27. Revelations says:

    Joey,
    Same here. Well, rent wasn’t lowered, but it was the first time since I’d been here (5 yrs) that it wasn’t raised. Nice! That puts a damper on Frank’s hopes for a bull rental market.

  28. Joey says:

    Nothing will put a damper on his hopes. He’s beyond help

  29. Firestormik says:

    I guess it’s my turn to report CC account closure.
    BAC closed my card which I haven’t used for a year. No notice yet, but my credit report shows
    ACCOUNT CLOSED BY CONSUMER
    PAID ACCOUNT / ZERO BALANCE
    I have never called them :)

  30. NJCoast says:

    Joey-

    We didn’t buy a starter house either. It worked out much better for us than friends that bought and sold through housing cycles. We had the same property from 1982-2004.

    When we bought in 1982 for $135,000 everybody told us we were crazy but we liked the location (oceanfront- run down carraige house on 100’x150′ in monmouth county). All our friends were buying brand new developement homes or condos.

    The seller held our first mortgage at 16% but as rates dropped we would call him and say we were going to refinance with a bank and he would just lower the rate with no fees or points.

  31. d2b says:

    I think that most people look to move into a permanent home in their 30s when they have kids. I suspect that those buying and selling starter properties bought them with no/one kids. My parents did this is the 60s. It’s not a new idea at all.

  32. EWellie says:

    d2b,

    It’s not a new idea, but now it’s become the norm. It wasn’t for my parents’ generation.

  33. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Firestormik,

    I had HSBC knock 5K off the limit on a card I never use. Have not had one closed as of yet.

  34. Revelations says:

    Fire,
    Maybe an identity thief stole your info, got high, and closed an account in your name.

  35. woodisgood says:

    Joey, my wife and I just read your EXCELLENT post and we couldn’t agree more!!

    We’re in the process of buying our first home in NJ (have been renting in NYC for a few years). We love our real estate agent, but this person has been trying to destroy our belief that our first home should be OUR HOME for more than 10 years. We want to buy a house and STAY IN IT for 20+ years, just as our parents did.

    Why do we have to go through all this searching and agita 5 to 8 years after going through this process? We’ve been looking for two+ months now, and only two houses have come close to meeting our needs–of course, the owners of both houses are expecting us to break the bank and haven’t accepted our (VERY reasonable) offers. We can move anytime; our credit is perfect; we’re ready to put down 25%. Our agent gently pushes other houses on us, using that ol’ line, “It’s a great starter home.” We smile, nod our heads, continue our searching, and say a silent “FUUUUUUCK YOU!” to this person because no way in bloody hell are we spending OUR MONEY on a house we’re expected to move out of 7 years from now! WE’RE the ones who have to live in it. The agent gets their commission and moves on to the next bum.

    Look, I’m not trying to disparage those who buy starter homes and buy another within 6-8 years. People need to do what’s best for them. I’m just saying I agree with you–the concept of “the starter home” just seems like a kind of scam to get more sales generated.

  36. Shore Guy says:

    Wood,

    I would tell that agent that if they use the term starter home or push one you will need tp move on.

  37. safeashouses says:

    You can rent this one for 4k a month, or buy it for 384k.

    http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/Scotch-Plains-Twp_NJ_07076_1107519749

    I don’t get the rental rate. Seems way too high.

  38. GerryAdams says:

    Starter home issue – small starter homes do not cost as much, cheaper to maintain, but are low risk and allow folks to take the interest deduction. A home should be commensurate with your income and lifestyle. If go for broke and try to get into a 500k house in your late 20s with 3% down, your are taking a big risk plus there is little money leftover for the fun things in life. Also, if you bought into high tax area for the schools, it is like throwing money at something that you do not use.

  39. sas says:

    wait a minute?
    did spring ever come?

    SAS

  40. zieba says:

    Shore,

    An attorey I am working on an unrelated matter once represented a studio in a similar case. Well, somewhat similar. The studio had someone come in and install protools on their racks… except unbeknownst to them the copy was hot. They got fined six figures per module and they had enough modules to close the shop up.

  41. zieba says:

    There are some gaps in that train of thought… my apologies, I had a few.

  42. sas says:

    Green shoots?
    best put away those gillies.

    “A Tale of Two Depressions”
    http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/3421

    SAS

  43. Revelations says:

    Of course, if the Deutsche Bank prices forecast comes to pass, there will be A LOT more “starter homes” in NJ! SweeEEET!!!

  44. sas says:

    kettle1,

    got some connections whom measured nuclear decay over N. Korea.

    so far, everythings all been a dud.
    Thats good news on one end, but makes me wonder how the media & govt propaganda machine spins.

    SAS

  45. Revelations says:

    46 was directed to GerryAdams. …darned refresh button.

  46. whyoung says:

    I may be showing my age here, but when it comes to the “moving up” mentality ,I think it may be partly an unconscious legacy of the flight to the suburbs in the 60’s and the 70’s…

    I grew up in a multi-ethnic inner city neighborhood in the mid-west and many of my school friends and their families sold and moved out for “better schools” and so forth.

    The idea that neighborhoods remain stable – whether it’s an influx of section 8 renters OR gentrifiers – is a continuing question.

    All those hipsters in Brooklyn don’t seem to know that some of the neighborhoods they are colonizing were once burning.

  47. sas says:

    hi nompound,

    i think i posted my email address incorrectly on the prior thread.

    if you like, i believe this is my email address:
    sas_njrereport@yahoo.com

    i have my emails screend, so i may not respond asap, but i will respond in a timely fashion.

    “conspiracy”
    nope, i don’t believe in them. I deal with things I can prove or have seen with my own eyes.

    then again, there was that one time back in 85 in Turks and Caicos when we stumbled upon that multicurrency revolving credit facility & that Gulfstream V (aka.the Guantanamo Bay Express).

    well, thats a convo for another day.

    in any case, back to RE.

    SAS

  48. Revelations says:

    I think the number of people that actually ‘move up’ is a lot less than what the Realtors would have you believe. I base this on all the additions (some nice, some DIY jobs not so nice) that I see in homes we’ve looked at.

    I can’t imagine that people expand their house and THEN trade up, but based on some of the sh!tty additions I’ve seen, maybe the recent trend was to ‘trade out’. ..Or, maybe I have no imagination.

  49. Revelations says:

    SAS,
    When you say you have your emails ‘screened’, do you mean the sender and all relations/acquaintances within 3 degrees get a background check, bug sweep, and 2 weeks surveillance before you reply? :)

  50. fedgod says:

    Anthony works in the grocery store
    Saving his pennies for someday.
    Momma Leoni left a note on the door.
    She said, “Sonny, move out to the country.
    Aw, but working too hard can give you a heart attack, ack, ack, ack, ack, ack;
    You oughtta know by now.
    Who need a house out in Hackensack?
    Is that all you get for your money?
    And it seems such a waste of time.
    If that’s what it’s all about…
    Momma, if that’s moving up, than I’m moving out.

    Mmm I’m movin out
    mm hmm, Oo Hoo…

    Seargeant O’Leary is walking the beat.
    At night he becomes a bartender.
    He works at Mr. Cacciatorre’s down on Sullivant Street,
    Across from the medical center,
    And he’s trading in his Chevy for a Cadillac, lac, lac, lac lac,lac;
    You oughtta know by now,
    If he can’t drive with a broken back,
    At least he can polish the fenders.
    And it seems such a waste of time,
    If that’s what it’s all about…
    Momma, if that’s moving up, than I’m moving out.

    Oo I’m movin out, Oh oh, Oo hoo…

    You should never argue with a crazy, ma, ma, ma, ma man;
    You oughtta know by now.
    You can pay Uncle Sam with the overtime
    Is that all you get for your money?
    And if thats what you have in mind
    yeah if thats what you’re all about..
    Good luck moving up, cause I’m moving out.

    Oo I’m movin out
    mmhmm Oo hoo uh-huh mmhmm…

    I’m movin’ out!

  51. cobbler says:

    The concept of a starter home only makes sense in the growing RE markets. Presumably the young buyer has only the 5% 0DP money for the shabby low-priced house. As ALL houses go up in price (yeah, sure they do) in a few years his/her equity increases enough that after paying the RE agent they still have enough money for the 20% DP for the bigger/better house. And all this without actually saving anything! Unfortunately in the down market this works other way around – the starter home buyer loses whatever equity they had and then some, so they are stuck in the house they don’t really want to live in. Plus, as most starter homes are cheap(er) for a reason, their price drop in a down market is worse than the average (see this morning’s discussion of Kings Rd. in Chatham/Madison).

  52. Qwerty says:

    RE: “I had HSBC knock 5K off the limit on a card I never use.”

    That actually LOWERS your credit score.

  53. Mikeinwaiting says:

    cobbler 54 Right on the money.

  54. grim says:

    New Jersey personal incomes fell 0.5% in the first quarter. The pace of decline increased from the 0.4% decline seen in the prior quarter. Both declines were in line with the national averages.

    From the Bureau of Economic Analysis:

    State Personal Income: First Quarter 2009

  55. Seneca says:

    Almost two years ago, I looked to bid on an expanded cape for sale with a tremendous yard. RE Agent said that the owner already had a bid at full asking price so if we weren’t prepared to beat it, they won’t even show us the house. Owner was planning on moving up to a bigger house (4 kids!) in a less expensive neighborhood.

    The house was overpriced by about 80,000 even then so we didn’t bother. Just waited to see who the sucker was that was going to pay full price.

    The house never sold. The owner who was looking to move up never did. Three of the four kids are now sharing the attic bedroom.

    When you are buying your first house in your mid-30s, you don’t want a starter home. The problem is, I have no confidence that my household income is going to experience any real boosts from promotions or a solid economy allowing me or spouse to switch jobs so what I can afford now is likely what I can afford for the next 20 years.

    5% rates don’t scare me. Neither do 6% rates. I can always refinance in the future if rates cycle down but that initial price I pay, locked in FOREVER.

  56. grim says:

    From the Telegraph:

    US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive

    The government looking at expanding a pioneering scheme in Flint, one of the poorest US cities, which involves razing entire districts and returning the land to nature.

    Local politicians believe the city must contract by as much as 40 per cent, concentrating the dwindling population and local services into a more viable area.

    The radical experiment is the brainchild of Dan Kildee, treasurer of Genesee County, which includes Flint.

    Having outlined his strategy to Barack Obama during the election campaign, Mr Kildee has now been approached by the US government and a group of charities who want him to apply what he has learnt to the rest of the country.

    Mr Kildee said he will concentrate on 50 cities, identified in a recent study by the Brookings Institution, an influential Washington think-tank, as potentially needing to shrink substantially to cope with their declining fortunes.

    Most are former industrial cities in the “rust belt” of America’s Mid-West and North East. They include Detroit, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Memphis.

  57. Pat says:

    The plan sounds so defeatist and dismal when written to emphasize the decline of great cities.

    Another view is deconstruction into leaner, more movable landscapes.

  58. rpatrick says:

    Joey,
    I’m not married yet and I have owned my small apartment for about 5.5 years at this point. I’m here until at least 2012.
    The advantage of the apartment being less than rent ( rare around here ) is that it saves me money, will even at break even built up a 40K pot of money for a DP ( plus my other savings ) when I need the family sized house.
    The disadvantage is I cannot pick up and move as easily

  59. Shore Guy says:

    “US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive ”

    For some years I have called this the O’Leary method of removing blight: A lanterrn and a cow.

  60. sas says:

    “US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive”

    we all laughed, but we may have to eat crow.
    reinvestor101 may have been right all along.

    now, if I can only get rocked ribbed like him.
    SAS

  61. Shore Guy says:

    lantern, even

  62. Shore Guy says:

    BBQ Rock Ribs, um-ummmmmm.

    I had those once down south someplace.

  63. sas says:

    “New York Unemployment Rate Increases to 8.2 Percent”
    http://tinyurl.com/l45lup

  64. Shore Guy says:

    The tomato- (or tomatoe, for Dan Quale — for you young’ns he was once Veep) based BBQ, not the vinegar-based.

  65. Shore Guy says:

    SAS,

    Did you see any data on the number of people who fell off the continuing unemployment claims due to exhausting benefits instead of finding work?

  66. Victorian says:

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  67. Joey says:

    rpatrick,

    More power to you. I’m not saying it doesn’t make sense for some people, I just don’t think it makes sense for most people. Thanks for your input.

  68. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    “Qwerty says:
    June 19, 2009 at 12:35 am
    RE: “I had HSBC knock 5K off the limit on a card I never use.”

    That actually LOWERS your credit score.”

    Those pr*cks!

  69. tjtv says:

    The quotes from the CEO of coldwell banker in this story are not necessarily truthful. They don’t really have any hard data to prove that the “move-up” buyer has vanished. All this is, is simply a press release designed to get into the minds of the washington legislators to increase the $8k tax credit to $15k, and allow all buyers(not just first-time) to receive it.

  70. Sastry says:

    Revelations #37

    Maybe an identity thief stole your info, got high, and closed an account in your name.

    The CC balance for this month was getting too big [my hand hurts from swiping the card so many times], so I called the CC company to pay it off before it’s billed… The lady then goes into this “identity protection” stuff — 8 bucks a month, where they will tell me if the billing address changes frequently. I wonder why won’t they do it for free anyway…

    S

  71. Shore Guy says:

    As an alternative to “those pr-ic-ks”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBPWxtuBjaU

    not for work with sound turned up too loud.

  72. Shore Guy says:

    For those who 1) like context and 2) remember the smell of mimeographed papers.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9huSs0g67c

  73. safeashouses says:

    #75 Shore Guy,

    Today that teacher would be sued for damaging that poor. tardy, student’s self-esteem.

  74. Shore Guy says:

    “Just learning about Cuba and having some food”

  75. Alap says:

    Anyway to find out which towns in Middlesex County and north of there have the lowest property tax rates? Is there a city by city listing anywhere?

  76. #73 – The lady then goes into this “identity protection” stuff — 8 bucks a month, where they will tell me if the billing address changes frequently. I wonder why won’t they do it for free anyway…

    Well, then they couldn’t charge you $8 a month, and where would the sense be in that?
    $8 a month for a 1 line ‘if then’ statement, nice work if you can get it.

  77. Sastry says:

    Alap #78

    This one has the whole nine yards. Search by name, street, etc. I presume, for tax rate for a township, you can use one of the records and go from there…

    http://php.app.com/mod4_07/search.php

  78. Victorian says:

    Alap (78) –

    [i]Is there a city by city listing anywhere?[/i]

    http://www.nj.com/news/bythenumbers/

  79. John says:

    The trouble with buying a starter home with your wife at an young age with hopes of trading up to a bigger better mansion when you are in your mid-forties and make SVP or Managing Director is most guys don’t see the point of dragging their starter wife to the new home. Yet the starter wife pushes for the trade-up. A mansion with a pool and jacquizi is best enjoyed by a 45 year old man with a 23 year old brazilian swin suit model not a 45 year old hag.

  80. Joey says:

    John,

    what would you do if your wife found this blog?

  81. Clotpoll says:

    Pat (60)-

    Visit Memphis sometime. It is pure defeat.

    Was that way the day I was born there, got worse when Dr. King got shot, had about 5 minutes of false prosperity during the boom, and it’s back to circling the drain again.

    To their credit, they’ve been bulldozing vacated parts of town for close to a year now.

  82. Painhrtz says:

    Clot lived in Memphis at the naval air station when I was a kid between 4 and 8. I went back a few years ago for the first time at 33, as a child I never realized what a colossal dump Memphis. That whole city needs General Sherman!

  83. Via CNBC; Sheila Bair call for an end of ‘too big to fail’. It’ll be interesting to see how this theme plays out. It has been on the back burner for now, but I’m expecting it to eventually come to the front.
    I’m not sure what it would mean for NYC area jobs. A new Glass-Steagall could potentially create a lot of new trade floors and everything that goes with that. It could also reduce the number of players in the field by a lot as well.
    On the commercial banking side breaking up JPM, BAC or C would probably mean more jobs, just not necessarily here.

  84. John says:

    I guess it would only be a problem if both the current wife and all my trade up wife prospects found it all at once.

    Joey says:
    June 19, 2009 at 9:10 am
    John,

    what would you do if your wife found this blog?

  85. Clotpoll says:

    Joey (83)-

    That would be the end of John at this blog.

    Coincidentally, it’d also be the end of his life.

  86. Shore Guy says:

    Regarding too-big-to-fail institutions:

    As said in the Godfather, “After all gentlemen, we are not communists.” Therefore, it would be nice to find some government action to discourage institutions from growing “too big to fail,” while, at the same time, generating revenue from those that are to pay to offset the damage when they do fail. I suggest it may be time to look at a “too-big-to-fail tax” — say 75-80%. Those firms that want to be HUGE, can stay that way but they pay to offset the societal costs. Those that decide, for business reasons, to break up into smaller firms, that is their choice.

    We charge reckless drivers higher insurance rates because of the danger they pose, it may be time for society to do the same with respect to companies that grow so large they can take whatever risk they want because the USG will not /cannot allow them to fail.

  87. Clotpoll says:

    pain (85)-

    Did your dad deal Thai sticks?

  88. Alap says:

    I am looking for a “starter” home as I am 25 and single. My girlfriend starts med school in august, so marriage is 5 years away. I have no need for alot of space, and don’t want to be tied down to something overly expensive as I still want to be able to save a good amount of $ and be able to move depending on where she gets her residency. So I think starter homes really vary by situation.

  89. John says:

    Clotpoll says:
    It also would mean my wife would get a trade-up husband!

    June 19, 2009 at 9:33 am
    Joey (83)-

    That would be the end of John at this blog.

    Coincidentally, it’d also be the end of his life.

  90. #89 – Shore – I believe there have been proposals of exactly the sort you mention. I expect we’ll here more of them in the
    future.
    The ‘financial supermarket’ concept is dead, it may take a little while for that dinosaur to realize it.

  91. Shore Guy says:

    Get a load of this budget gap, then compare the quaint capitol to slide 15.

  92. #91 – Alap – Given situation you describe, are you really sure you want to buy? Renting would seem to make more sense.

  93. John says:

    Houses will be down the next two years and then dead money for another two to three year so you are best waiting five years. 25-30 are the best five years in a man’s life. Since your GF will busy studying and working the next five years and will have little time for you I suggest you move to manhattan and rent a bedroom with two other single guys in a three bedroom and party hard for the next five years. The starter house will most likely when all is said and done, depreciation, taxes, maint, upkeep will leave you around 250K in the hole, living in the city, partying, going to club med, ski trips, hamptons, rent will run around 150K, so you are actually saving your future wife 100K, you are doing her a favor, plus by sowing your wild oats in your 20’s you will be ready to settle down and there will be a 100% chance your marriage will last. Your wife to be is very inteligent she will understand.

    Alap says:
    June 19, 2009 at 9:38 am
    I am looking for a “starter” home as I am 25 and single. My girlfriend starts med school in august, so marriage is 5 years away. I have no need for alot of space, and don’t want to be tied down to something overly expensive as I still want to be able to save a good amount of $ and be able to move depending on where she gets her residency. So I think starter homes really vary by situation.

  94. Kettle1 says:

    Re bulldozing cities

    its not defeatist at all, it shows prudence. Why try to sustain legacy infrastructure when it has no significant historic or social value and is a net drain on society?

    The harder question is how do you handle property rights?

    SAS

    several people on thi blog have been seriously suggesting ulldozing before RE101 started to toss it around. Let dieing cities die. then again Vegas, Phoenix and a few other cities should get very interesting over the next decade….

  95. Alap says:

    95: I am in no rush to buy. I have been keeping an eye out, and if something catches my eye for the right price, I will pursue it. Thanks to this blog, I have a fairly good idea of what the price should be on a place, and if the seller is shooting for the stars. Therefore, most of what I have been seeing is short sales and foreclosures, and even then, I want to make sure it makes sense factoring in all the expenses.

    Also, if I don’t find a place, I plan on renting a place in the city for a year and living it up a bit starting August.

  96. RayC says:

    Comp Killer
    Bought at least a year before the peak.

    148 GREENWOOD ROAD Mountainside
    Sold 10/2004 SP $825,000

    Sold 06/2009 SP $730,000

  97. Comrade nom deplume says:

    [50] sas

    I will try it.

    As for “nompound”, in light of all this rain, I may just give up on that and build an ark instead.

  98. jmacdaddio says:

    John (96) –

    Funny stuff – you just made my weekend.

  99. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    As always Mish is ahead of the game:

    “Given that the proportion of recipients who used up their jobless benefits topped a monstrous 49 percent, the continuing claims number going forward will be essentially meaningless. Indeed, the primary reason we set these records in the first place is that many states extended benefits.

    Looking ahead, expect the administration to highlight the huge drop in continuing claims as if it means something necessarily good. It doesn’t. The drop in continuing claims means more home foreclosures and credit card defaults are coming because 49% of those who were receiving benefits now have no money coming in at all.

    Finally, The drop in initial claims is insignificant in relation to the problem. Beware of future spin on meaningless “improvements” because it is coming.”

    http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/06/continuing-claims-drop-first-time-in-21.html

  100. Painhrtz says:

    Didn’t deal but definitely smoked them almost lost a his comission, was knocked down a paygrade, and was suspended from flight duty for a while. Nothing worse than a P3 navigator sitting around with nothing to do.

  101. Alap says:

    96- John,

    That is exactly the plan if I don’t find a GREAT price for a place. Going to check out places in the city today after work.

  102. Shore Guy says:

    Ket,

    Have you ever driven on Broadway in Baltimore from Thames in Fells point out past JHU Medical Center and out into the post apocalyptic world that eexists west of there? It is like a neutron bomb went of. And, some of the houses that remain have caged-in their front yards — not a fence but a cage with a a top, to keep the neighbors out and create something resembling a safe zone.

  103. Shore Guy says:

    It is begging for a lantern and a cow.

  104. Shore Guy says:

    Pain,

    P3s in Memphis? Were there many Soviet boomers in the Ohio River?

  105. Shore Guy says:

    “As for “nompound”, in light of all this rain, I may just give up on that and build an ark instead.”

    I think BC and I are “gonna build a house.”

  106. Comrade nom deplume says:

    [96] John

    That actually makes a lot of sense.

    25-30 was when I had most of my Johnscapades.

    Dirt poor, meaningless jobs, but lots of, well, they weren’t onions.

  107. John says:

    I better tell Tiger and Phil there is one more player in New York today!

    Alap says:
    June 19, 2009 at 9:52 am
    96- John,

    That is exactly the plan if I don’t find a GREAT price for a place. Going to check out places in the city today after work.

  108. Comrade nom deplume says:

    [108]shore

    “Were there many Soviet boomers in the Ohio River”

    The Hunt for Rust October?

  109. syncmaster says:


    Capitalist fools
    What were the critical decisions that led to the crisis? Mistakes were made at every fork in the road—we had what engineers call a “system failure,” when not a single decision but a cascade of decisions produce a tragic result. Let’s look at five key moments.

    Read more at http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/2009/01/stiglitz200901

  110. Painhrtz says:

    Shore, P3 are the prop operated radar/evesdropping planes used in antisubmarine warfare and coastal monitoring. they are currently used as hurricane chasers and resemble a C-130. While I don’t think there were many Soviet bombers in the Ohio Valley the location to the gulf and east coast was a benefit. Plus the airstation was a legacy base for the Mississippi River. Dad has interesting stories that are still classified involving their aircraft and MIGs over the iron curtain when stationed over seas.

  111. PGC says:

    #96 Dennis the Strawman

    I have some friends who did that in Hoboken. They rented a penthouse in 333 River. As it was just opening, they got a great deal on the rent. Impressive River views and Beyonnce as a neighbor.

  112. lisoosh says:

    Shore Guy says:
    June 18, 2009 at 8:50 pm

    “lisoosh,

    about the “head tax.”

    There is no way the men of America will ever allow such a thing. Besides, how would one collect it?”

    Shore – the genesis of the “poll tax” was a Thatcher campaign promise to eliminate the property taxes that paid for local services. The concept being that it was more fair. Very similar to much of the rhetoric we hear now about injustices towards the “rich”.

    The taxes of course ended up being higher than early estimates. They also varied vastly by town depending on business ratables and gov. subsidies. Truly poor families with several adults living in a house were hit with much bigger bills than wealthy individuals living alone – publicity gold. Even the Duke of Westminster (the richest man in the UK at the time and holder of extensive estates) made a big deal out of the fact that he was required to pay the same for local services as the lowliest kitchen worker in his home. He promptly paid the tax for all of his employees.

    Non payment soared -reaching 30%, there were numerous riots protesting the tax and several high profile arrests. Because they are more mobile renters were less likely to pay and harder to track so the burden fell on owner-occupiers anyway.

    The whole thing helped lead to the downfall of Thatcher. Her replacement, John Major repealed the tax and replaced with with another version of property taxes.

    It’s just an interesting case study as so many of the same arguments (undue burden on homeowners, soaking the rich etc.) are being used here and now. The UK solution was a disaster. I can easily see the same thing happening here as people never learn from history.

  113. John says:

    I would imagine by the ounce. Plus NYC would make a killing during fleet week, but we would have to make the tax half price for trannies in order to be fair.

    There is no way the men of America will ever allow such a thing. Besides, how would one collect it?”

  114. Kettle1 says:

    Shore

    Re Baltimore: yes i have. i distinctly remember driving through wondering when i got off the exit for west Mogadishu?!?!?!? It was just after sunset, and people were all hanging out on the sidewalk in front of boarded up row homes with the ply wood ripped off the doors so that they could use the houses. There were a number of people openly smoking crack pipes while sitting on top of stripped & abandoned cars. Saw at least a few people also openly carrying handguns in the waist of their pants as they weren’t wearing shirts (it was july).

    I swear this is actually what i saw. It was like a scene out of a post-apocalyptic movie, an urban mad max redux. I have never seen anything like that and while i may not be the worldliest of people, i was genuinely shocked to see that level of decay. I have seen most of the worst parts of Philly, NY, NJ, boston, etc and baltimore has to take the cake.

    Oh, did i mention that there were a few kids that had to be about 12 or so rockin 40’s as well?

    I saw 1 home with the cages you describe. I was speechless. Needless to say i did not stop at intersections or lights, just slowed down a bit.

  115. d2b says:

    Kettle:
    Sold into Baltimore for a bit. Made my West Baltimore appointments for early AM when everyone was sleeping. Philly cops call this the quiet time since everybody was up all night. My buddy in N Philly would say that it wouldn’t last. Troublemakers would wake up swinging.

  116. Sastry says:

    Joey #83:

    John,

    what would you do if your wife found this blog?

    Most likely chuckle at how newbies take his humor way too seriously?

    S

  117. John says:

    Sorry that the bollywood crowd don’t get jokes. Maybe I buy you lunch at Curry in a Hurry to make up for it.

    Sastry says:
    June 19, 2009 at 10:32 am
    Joey #83:

    John,

    what would you do if your wife found this blog?

    Most likely chuckle at how newbies take his humor way too seriously?

  118. NJCoast says:

    Alap-
    You’re better off getting that place in the city. One romp in the supply closet with Dr. McSteamy and your girlfriend will be asking “Alap who?”

  119. Kettle1 says:

    Shore,

    I have to echo a previous comment by SAS on the Baltimore/destroying decaying ghetto issue. There are to many people who make WAY to much money off of the social programs that support these areas for TPTB to take such a radical step on any large scale. They may bulldoze abandoned areas but they wont be cleaning up ghettos unless the replacement will make them more money. if you look in the dark corners of HUD, there is some very “black economy” type stuff going on.

  120. Sastry says:

    John #121… I think you have to buy Joey the lunch. I was on your side — unless I didn’t get Joey’s joke.

    S

  121. gary says:

    Dear Sellers,

    tick… tick… tick… tick…

  122. Joey says:

    Sastry, don’t let my lack of posting fool you. I’ve been lurking longer than you, I’m sure.

  123. John says:

    U.S. homes recovery distressingly slow: Reuters/UMich
    REUTERS — 29 MINUTES AGO
    NEW YORK (Reuters) – A “distressingly slow” U.S. housing recovery, with inflation-adjusted home values expected to decline over the next five years, makes it unlikely that housing wealth will drive consumer spending in the next decade, a Reuters/University of Michigan survey found.

    Consumers are apt to maintain their renewed emphasis on savings and paring debt, Richard Curtin, director of the survey, said in a June home price update on Friday.

    Housing wealth changes have a lagged impact on spending, and the influence of declines seen in 2008 will depress growth in consumer spending in 2009 and 2010, the survey said.

    “To be sure, refinancing has reduced the burden of mortgage payments, giving consumers more discretionary income, but the refinancing impact on spending will fade as mortgage rates increase,” Curtin said. “Moreover, conventional refinancing is largely limited to consumers whose home is worth about 20 percent more than their current outstanding mortgage.”

    The pool of those homeowners is fast shrinking with each month that home prices sink. On average, home prices nationally have slumped by more than 32 percent from mid-2006 highs, based on Standard & Poor’s/Case-Shiller indexes.

    Sixty percent of homeowners reported home price declines in the second quarter Reuters/University of Michigan surveys. The share of those reporting losses was greatest in the West, at 77 percent, and least in the South, at 51 percent.

    Some signs of sentiment improvement emerged in the second quarter. Just 22 percent of those surveyed expected price declines in the year ahead, the lowest share since 2007.

    The share of homeowners reporting price declines in the past year and expected further erosion in the year ahead fell to 28 percent in the second quarter from 35 percent in the first quarter and 43 percent a year ago.

    “Declines in prices have prompted consumers to view home buying conditions much more favorably, but those same price declines have prompted the least favorable assessments of home selling conditions ever recorded,” Curtin said.

    Most home buyers are also sellers. As a result, many potential transactions are thwarted because the reluctance to sell at a “loss” is seen as greater than the advantage of the buying at a reduced price, he said.

  124. Qwerty says:

    GerryAdams says: “Starter home issue – small starter homes do not cost as much…”

    Have you looked at home prices in NJ? Today “starter” homes cost $500,000+ in a decent town.

  125. gary says:

    This one is f*cking hideous. I think they should just take 200K and be happy with it.

    http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/Woodland-Park_NJ_07424_1109607124

  126. Painhrtz says:

    Knowing the taxes in West Paterson I can only imagine what the annual vig is on that place. there is another Frank Lloyd right inspired monstrosity on Rifle Camp Road (which seems to be littered with them) that has been for sale for three years. Realtor owned and she has been choking on it.

  127. gary says:

    Painhrtz,

    I think I truly have a shred of sympathy for them. Alert the media, Gary actually felt sympathy today!

  128. Painhrtz says:

    Uggh got in a 1AM last night from Quebec and my spelling is worse than usual right = Wright.

    Nom – Hunt for Rust October classic, owe my employer a new computer screen and keyboard

  129. gary says:

    Here’s one that couldn’t find a date for the prom!

    http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/Oradell_NJ_07649_1107494796

  130. Comrade nom deplume says:

    WOW.

    I just read excerpts of this speech by Ludwig Von Mises, that he delivered in 1950!!!!!

    http://mises.org/midroad.asp

    Chillingly current.

  131. gary says:

    OMG, please, somebody has to give me the history on this one! I would really love to meet these sellers and witness the logic and reasoning.

    http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/Ho-Ho-Kus_NJ_07423_1109420416

  132. chicagofinance says:

    WSJ

    Food & Wine Festival
    Pennington, N.J

    Five local wineries will sample about 100 wines at the East Coast Food & Wine Festival. There will be cooking demonstrations and wine seminars (including a presentation by George Taber, author of “To Cork or Not to Cork” and “Judgment of Paris”). Gourmet snacks will include gelato, corn chowder, grilled quail, Cape May salt oysters, barbecue chicken and Jersey-tomato salad; slowfoodandwinefestival.com.

    WHEN June 27-28, Noon to 5 p.m.

    WHERE Hopewell Valley Vineyards, 46 Yard Rd., Pennington, N.J.

    HOW MUCH $35, $40 at door; two-day tickets, $55, $60 at door; Foods, $1 to $9

  133. chicagofinance says:

    for grim:

    WSJ Datebook
    TUE 23 | ‘Far’

    Regina Spektor, the piano chanteuse, introduces her album “Far” with the single “Laughing With,” which tests radio programmers with its litany of bad news and the chorus “Nobody laughs at God in a hospital. No one laughs at God in a war.” English isn’t her first tongue—her Russian family immigrated to the Bronx when she was 9 years old—yet she’s known for literate lyrics, which she weaves into keyboard work that sometimes reveals her classical training.

  134. Comrade nom deplume says:

    [123] kettle,

    Another reason they won’t bulldoze what are now de facto projects. Those people gotta go somewhere. If you live in Towson, you don’t want projects and ghettos in Sandtown and Dundalk getting bulldozed as “those people” may move into your neighborhood with their Section 8 vouchers.

    No, some folks will sound an alarm about dozing the ghettos because that is where they want to keep the hoodlums.

  135. chicagofinance says:

    This sounds like a biography of clot….

    WSJ
    ‘Whatever Works’

    Boris Yellnikoff, the prolix geezer played by Larry David in Woody Allen’s “Whatever Works,” was once a world-class physicist teaching string theory at Columbia. The only string he strums now is misanthropy. “Let me tell you right off, I’m not a likable guy,” Boris says straight to the camera. (That’s the first thing he says in the trailer, which should get an award for truth in advertising.) He’s a nihilist, a fatalist—“on the whole we’re a failed species”—and, deep in the Woody grain, an anhedonist who can’t enjoy the extended pleasure of a young woman’s company. (She’s Melody, a sweetly innocent runaway played by Evan Rachel Wood.) Larry David’s role was originally written for the late Zero Mostel, and the clear calculation was that the right actor would make Boris borderline-lovable in spite of himself. Mr. David isn’t the right actor.

    He can be an amusing scold, and he’s certainly a master of the world-class narcissism that makes “Curb Your Enthusiasm” a singular pleasure on TV. But he seems to be an actor playing an actor. He shows none of the performance skills, or the emotional variety, to sustain a feature film, so this new act wears thin—and turns creepy—as Boris constantly berates his beautiful waif after taking her in, and she, poor baby, buys into his love affair with doom. The story finally comes around to a wry celebration of life that includes Melody’s eccentric parents—they’re played by Patricia Clarkson and Ed Begley Jr.—and a romantic young actor, Randy (Henry Cavill), who adores her. Still, the movie on the whole is joyless. “Whatever Works” doesn’t.

  136. Kettle1 says:

    Nom,

    Those who remain ignorant of the past are doomed to repeat it…..

  137. Qwerty says:

    Cobbler nailed it:

    cobbler says:
    June 19, 2009 at 12:25 am

    The concept of a starter home only makes sense in the growing RE markets. Presumably the young buyer has only the 5% 0DP money for the shabby low-priced house. As ALL houses go up in price (yeah, sure they do) in a few years his/her equity increases enough that after paying the RE agent they still have enough money for the 20% DP for the bigger/better house. And all this without actually saving anything! Unfortunately in the down market this works other way around – the starter home buyer loses whatever equity they had and then some, so they are stuck in the house they don’t really want to live in.

  138. Dink says:

    Gary, the West Paterson house sold for $403K in 2004 and then for $675K in 2006. Its currently a short sale (shocking!)

  139. JBJB says:

    Cobbler [54]

    Dead on. I have tried to explain this to many frieds and family members. If you have to buy now, the better play is to purchase a house you can live in for 10-15 years and forget about the starter home. Of course, many simply can’t afford to do this, so you have to wait and save and let the market come down to you.

  140. Shore Guy says:

    114,

    Pain,

    By boomer, I meant ICBM missile sub. I am familiar with the P3. Sorry about being obtuse. I have had not enough cofee yet.

  141. Shore Guy says:

    http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2009/06/15/daily69.html

    Green shoots for everyone! Maybe tht is what people who exhaust unemployment eat, and why the Administration is so big on them.

  142. Shore Guy says:

    “about the “head tax.”

    There is no way the men of America will ever allow such a thing. Besides, how would one collect it?”

    Shore – the genesis of the “poll tax” was a Thatcher campaign promise to eliminate the property taxes that paid for local services. The concept being that it was more fair.”

    Such a serious response to an attempt at humor. I will leave that to John, as, clearly, I dont have any.

  143. Shore Guy says:

    “I just read excerpts of this speech by Ludwig Von Mises, that he delivered in 1950!!!!!”

    Hey! That is the line I used to use at the Chatterbox back in the 70s. Backoff.

    lol

  144. Shore Guy says:

    From the South Fla Business Journal:

    Since May 2008, 417,500 nonagricultural jobs have been lost. The Miami/Fort Lauderale area was among the metro areas with the largest job losses in the last year, down 101,800 jobs

  145. BklynHawk says:

    139/ChiFi-
    Spektor is a Fair Lawn, NJ High School alum.

  146. Painhrtz says:

    Shore: to show how tired I am I read bomber not boomer, I’m thinking TU-37s flying over the TVA. I really have to get more sleep when I’m on the road.

  147. still_looking says:

    gary, you get mail?

    sl

  148. John says:

    That makes no sense. Lets say I can afford a 1.2 million dollar dream house but I am fearful houses will fall another 20% in the next three years, so instead I buy a 400K starter home.

    Three years down the road if I bought the 1.2 million dollar home I am out 240k as opposed to 80K. I would be better off three years down the road selling my starter for 320k and buying the trade up for 960K. A savings of 160K

    JBJB says:
    June 19, 2009 at 11:19 am
    Cobbler [54]

    Dead on. I have tried to explain this to many frieds and family members. If you have to buy now, the better play is to purchase a house you can live in for 10-15 years and forget about the starter home. Of course, many simply can’t afford to do this, so you have to wait and save and let the market come down to you.

  149. still_looking says:

    off to work soon but wanted to get some info

    any ideas regarding a summer beach rental?

    since MIL laid off, FIL on summer break am looking for a 2 or more bedroom rental as close to the beach as possible.

    I’m too leery of most realtors so an agency is not on my radar screen. Just wondering if anyone has leads?

    Thanks in advance.

    sl

  150. JBJB says:

    John

    I was referring to a different scenario. If you can afford a 3br 1 ba 350K POS now, but plan to move to the 4br2ba 500-700K level trade up in 4-5 years as your family grows or whatever reason, you are not going to be able to make this jump and will be stuck in the POS. You might as well wait and buy the 500-700K house as they come down, then you will have a comfortable place for 5-10 years.

    Of course if you buy a 1.5 million dollar house vs a 400K house you have a risk for greater loss in a few years, but that is a different issue.

  151. Comrade nom deplume says:

    [146, 152]

    The NJ Real Estate, NORAD, and ASW Report.

  152. Clotpoll says:

    Somebody looking for why the unemployment numbers were a little goofy yesterday?

    Gazillions of jobless had their bennies expire.

    http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/06/continuing-claims-drop-first-time-in-21.html

  153. BklynHawk says:

    147/Shore Guy-
    Since layoffs/claims seemed to have peaked around Jan/Feb, I’d say we will either start to see more anecdotal evidence of severance/unemployment benefits running out around July/Aug.

    On a more positive note, from all the charts Calculated Risk presents it looks like the average employment recovery is 5-10 months from the peak of unemployment claims.

  154. relo says:

    137: Must be the gas stove and indoor plumbing.

  155. Short Hills Renter says:

    re:#129
    Gary – the photos clearly demonstrate that the house is haunted. you can see ghosts all over the place. don’t they have to disclose this?

  156. Clotpoll says:

    chi (141)-

    I hate Woody Allen. Fcuking p*d0phi!e.

  157. BklynHawk says:

    137/Gary-
    All I can say is…nice yard?

  158. x-underwriter says:

    still_looking says:
    any ideas regarding a summer beach rental?

    http://www.cyberrentals.com/

  159. John says:

    One last Jet Question, I want to sell half of my tickets, I have front row 50 yard line field level and front row 30 yard line Mezz level so they are pretty good seats. Don’t want to sell them to friends as I take them to game with me, want to sell them at what market will bear to cover pre-season waste if tickets and maybe a little more.

    I see people selling them on Stubhub, ticketexchange, craigs list, ebay etc. Worried about scammers and getting a good price. Have any of you sold tickets on any of these websites and what should I worry about? Thanks

  160. safeashouses says:
  161. still_looking says:

    x thanks!

    sl

  162. freedy says:

    166

    cause its a moron

  163. John says:

    http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/real_estate/0906/gallery.Obama_making_home_affordable_experience/3.html

    Five kids, stay at home wife and a 61K salary he took out a 1,600 a month mortgage, now he got laid off and is making 25K a year and he wants a modification to stay in his home. WTF, 25k would barely pay for food and clothes for 7 people!

  164. Nurburgringer says:

    Comp Killer Atlanta edition:
    My brother just sold his house in Alpharetta due to a job transfer to Cincinnati.

    Bought in May 2006 for $640,000k, OLP 2 months ago $625,000, lowered to $599,000, sold for $565,000. His company’s relo package covered up to $75k of loss on home sale and closing costs, so he walked with a net loss of zero on the sale. Don’t think his old neighbors (many of which have fading for sale signs out front) will be so happy though…

  165. Al says:

    John says:
    June 19, 2009 at 1:02 pm
    http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/real_estate/0906/gallery.Obama_making_home_affordable_experience/3.html

    Five kids, stay at home wife and a 61K salary he took out a 1,600 a month mortgage, now he got laid off and is making 25K a year and he wants a modification to stay in his home. WTF, 25k would barely pay for food and clothes for 7 people!

    Correction – 25K would not buy food and clothes for 67 people.

    He gets quite a big check from the goverment every years as well. – Childern’s tax credit.

    But still – I think John need to pay for this guy’s kids – ohh wait he is already doing so and so do I.

  166. Stu says:

    John,

    Stubhub is the easiest but they take a huge commission. Craigslist if free but is the most work since you have to figure out a payment method that works for you. Paypal takes a nice chunk of change as well Ebay ain’t too bad, but commissions once again.

    If you’ve got the time and don’t mind people meeting you at a neutral location, craigslist will make you the most money. If time equals money to you, just put ’em up on StubHub and wait for the ship to come in.

  167. reinvestor101 says:

    -63
    sas says:
    June 19, 2009 at 7:59 am
    “US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive”

    we all laughed, but we may have to eat crow.
    reinvestor101 may have been right all along.

    now, if I can only get rocked ribbed like him.
    SAS

    You’re damn skippy I was right. Bulldozing the damn excess inventory is the ONLY way to defeat the terrorist scourge who’ve upended the damn real estate markets. It’s good that people are finally listening to me.

    While I’m at it, let me talk about what we ought to do about Iran. We need to go in their right now and make sure that Mousavi is seated as the damn president. That’s the only rock ribbed thing to do, but “That One” is a spineless inveterbrate and doesn’t want to “interfere”. That’s a bunch of crap. Leadership means leading and doing.

  168. Sean says:

    re: #173 – actually reinvestor101 – US suburbs need to be bulldozed, not the cities.

  169. x-underwriter says:

    still_looking says:
    June 19, 2009 at 12:54 pm
    x thanks!

    My brother has rented at least a half dozen places from there and has been happy with all. Since you’re dealing with individuals though, its buyer beware

  170. reinvestor101 says:

    Sean says:
    June 19, 2009 at 1:36 pm
    re: #173 – actually reinvestor101 – US suburbs need to be bulldozed, not the cities.

    Who said anything about bulldozing cities? I said bulldoze the excess damn inventory. I don’t give a shlt where it is, if it’s excess bulldoze it. That will help my house’s value.

    Also, just because you got cute here, don’t be surprised if you see a bulldozer outside your house.

  171. Shore Guy says:

    John,

    I have never sold tickets through a broker before but have bought a bunch without issue. The first couple times I was holding my breath as I went through the line.

  172. Sean says:

    This just gets better and better.

    The Obama administration is considering allowing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to refinance loans with current loan-to-value ratios of 125 percent or higher, Lockhart said at a National Association of Real Estate Editors Association conference in Washington yesterday.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=al5p85mlike0

  173. Shore Guy says:

    105!
    Do I hear 125?
    125!
    Do I hear 150?

    Green shoots, going once. Green shoots going twice.

    Green shoots sold to the debt-free man in the corner holding the bag.

  174. Comrade nom deplume says:

    Cash for Clunkers

    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c111:6:./temp/~c111byKC3m:e145455:

  175. chicagofinance says:

    BklynHawk says:
    June 19, 2009 at 11:55 am
    139/ChiFi-
    Spektor is a Fair Lawn, NJ High School alum.

    tell grim…..

  176. chicagofinance says:

    Clotpoll says:
    June 19, 2009 at 12:23 pm
    chi (141)- I hate Woody Allen. Fcuking p*d0phi!e.

    clot: sometimes there is a fine line between abuse and luck…..
    http://www.app.com/article/20090618/NEWS/90618150/-1/FRONTTABS01/Aide+accused+of+sexual+relationship+with+student

  177. Shore Guy says:

    chifi

    The school’s website (http://www.rugbyschool.org/) says, “The Rugby School. We Go the Distance for You!”

  178. 3b says:

    gary How about the one lsited below, much more reasonable. Just as blue ribbony any train townie as Oradell, Is the 12k a year in property taxes going to be an issue?

    http://www.njmls.com/cf/details.cfm?mls_number=2927063&id=999999

  179. Shore Guy says:

    Seriously,

    She should not have taken advantage of the student, regardless of how good an idea he may have thought it was at the time. The age and power difference is just wrong.

    That said, I wonder how many of the fathers of students at the school wish they had volunteered in class more often.

  180. John says:

    I might do stub hub, my friends and co-workers are just stupid, a few offered to give me face for my Patriots and Dolphins games, I then explained I have to eat pre-season and break even on the end of season bad games I can’t afford to do it, they looked at me like I was nuts, one guy I even said look you can have my two front row prime game tickets at face if you take another non prime game at face. He said why would I want a non-prime game at face. Looks like I will sell my prime games on stubhub to strangers and just take kids and friends to non-prime games for free. Guess if I bought a hampton house with these nuts 50/50 they would take April 1 to October 1 and stick me with six months of winter.

    Shore Guy says:

    June 19, 2009 at 1:42 pm
    John,

    I have never sold tickets through a broker before but have bought a bunch without issue. The first couple times I was holding my breath as I went through the line.

  181. Shore Guy says:

    “Is the 12k a year in property taxes going to be an issue?”

    WTF has this state come to? Is $1m tax a month an issue? It is absurd.

  182. Comrade nom deplume says:

    Seems that Thomas links are freshness dated.

    The bill is HR 2346, Title XIII (Cash for Clunkers)

    Title 13. How appropriate.

    Will be curious to see if my Audi POS qualifies.

  183. Sean says:

    re: #190 Comrade – I did not get my Hybrid tax credit last year of $1,500 because of AMT. Most likely only the poor will get this new cash for clunkers credit.

  184. Shore Guy says:

    nom,

    the key seems to be the mileage improvement. If 4 mpg greater the credit is x and maxes out at 10 mpg improvement. Also, must have been registered in the same name for a year.

  185. Shore Guy says:

    sean,

    that is to make things fair and to make sure you pay your fair share.

  186. homeboken says:

    John – The issue is that there are exactly 3 Jets home games that are not painful to attend. Pats, Fish, Titans.

    You will be begging for face value when the Bengals come into the frozen swamp in December.

    If you are a fan, go to the good games. If you are in it for the money, sell the good games.

  187. syncmaster says:

    Shore Guy #189,

    Those bumpkin losers in the other 49 states don’t have school systems as awesome as ours. That’s why we pay more. It’s only right. If you want the best, you gotta pay for it.

  188. W8ing says:

    oy…just found out that my job and i will be relocated to Purchase, NY from Tribeca in a few weeks. I currently live in Lyndhurst, NJ. This bites…anybody have any experience/advice commuting from NJ to Purchase?

  189. Kettle1 says:

    BklynHawk 159, Shore

    On a more positive note, from all the charts Calculated Risk presents it looks like the average employment recovery is 5-10 months from the peak of unemployment claims.

    Another view:
    http://www.scribd.com/full/16591320?access_key=key-ptd9s1o89tracjkr1gv

    Recovery, a return to positive growth in employment tends to be symmetrical in terms of U3 and “total Non farm employment” in terms of YOY % change.

    To play Mr Green Shoots, lets assume we have peaked or are very close to peak growth rate of unemployment and that we will begin a recovery in 3Q09. Then we would peak at about 11% U3 (seasonally adjusted) and peak at about 20% U6 (Seasonally adjusted). with these assumptions we would see unemployment begin to shrink in 12 to 15 months from the peak YOY growth. Unless of course we go the “jobless: recovery route of 2001. But that only works if you can massively expand credit.

    Think the “recession” will begin recovery in 3Q09?

  190. Qwerty says:

    W8ing: Forget commuting, isn’t that area much nicer than Lyndhurst? Just move.

  191. syncmaster says:

    W8ing #196,

    Google Maps projects that to be a 13 hour walk.

  192. Shore Guy says:

    Syncmaster,

    Are you Elliot Spitzer?

  193. John says:

    I am forced to sell Pats, it is home opening and the highest priced resale tickets. Most season ticket holders I know are selling it to cover the damm pre-season tickets. Also going to put in Fish, Titans and Bills and sell the two I get the most for. The trouble with season tickets they force you in a way to sell best games to cover the pre-season the one or two bad games at end and parking pass they force upon you. My brother in law has been doing this for years.

    Also crazy my brother in law with tickets in crap seats since 1991 is selling his and sitting with me when I go. WTF, his reward for 18 years of season tickets is nothing. When people gave up seats they first offered them to waiting list rather than existing seat holders. Since I was front of waiting list I am in front row, that is a bad way to do business.

    homeboken says:
    June 19, 2009 at 2:13 pm
    John – The issue is that there are exactly 3 Jets home games that are not painful to attend. Pats, Fish, Titans.

    You will be begging for face value when the Bengals come into the frozen swamp in December.

    If you are a fan, go to the good games. If you are in it for the money, sell the good games.

  194. Laurie says:

    Yikes Gary
    Those homes in Oradell and Ho Ho Kus are…overpriced!!! They will be on the mkt for years. I am very famiiar with cheelcroft homes (the one in Ho Ho Kus) They are so small and cut up inside you feel like a hobbit.

  195. chicagofinance says:

    W8ing says:
    June 19, 2009 at 2:15 pm
    oy…just found out that my job and i will be relocated to Purchase, NY from Tribeca in a few weeks. I currently live in Lyndhurst, NJ. This bites…anybody have any experience/advice commuting from NJ to Purchase?

    W8ing: move…period…case closed; NJ is verboten unless you choose to live right at Fort Lee or else within 5-10 minutes of the Tappan Zee. Regardless, between tolls, gas and quality of life – don’t even think twice. Move to Stamford if you are dying for some urban living…..

  196. Mikeinwaiting says:

    W8ing 196 That is by Mamaroneck right?
    If so Lyndhurst to there not an easy commute. That su*ks, sorry. But on the bright side you have a job.

  197. Junebug says:

    W8ing: Unless you have 2+ hours to kill driving each way, or 3+ to do a train/bus combo you’re out of luck unfortunately.

    Come to the dark side though…I moved up to Westchester from Lyndhurst about 5 years ago…best decision I ever made.

  198. Sean says:

    re #196 – W8ing – Unless you want to spend an hour or more waiting at the GW Bridge to cross and the nightmare that is the Cross Bronx Expressway and the endless construction on I-95 move to Conn, overall taxes are a bit less than NJ And NY, state income tax is around 5%, Greenwich and Stamford are quite nice as well, no more NY City Tax either.

  199. Laurie says:

    Google 60 Walnut West Mahwah NJ for your POS house of the day. The house started at well over a million and has slide ever downward…currently at 899k?should sell for 799..needs 100k worth of work before you go in the door…

  200. syncmaster says:

    Shore #200,

    No. New Jersey schools are the best in the world, our kids are the smartest, our teachers have more degrees than anywhere else. That’s why we pay the most. Because we’re the freakin’ best. No one even comes close.

  201. Seneca says:

    Victorian [69]
    Do people still buy CDs? Serious question if anyone wants to respond as to why they do or do not.

  202. W8ing says:

    Gosh…you guys are scaring me. unfortunately, i am locked into my current lease til end of Sept but i might be able to get out end of august. As for the actual day my job is moved, i still don’t know. they told me a few weeks to a few months. it’s annoying that they don’t know but that’s the story.

    i am currently living in a 2br apt on the 2nd story of a 2 family house. i was looking to move into a 3br house somewhere. my max budget i’m hoping to spend monthly is around $2100 (currently paying $1575) so it’s been tough finding something in my price range in westchester. i was also looking at places on the north nj side (old tappan, northvale, norwood, etc) but everything there seems out of my price range. does anybody know of any good websites or realtors that can help me out?

    Thanks again for all your comments…

  203. John says:

    Unless you do ally bank what is even the point of buying a 1% cd, even ally bank cds are a total job at 2.3%

    June 19, 2009 at 2:38 pm
    Victorian [69]
    Do people still buy CDs? Serious question if anyone wants to respond as to why they do or do not.

  204. zieba says:

    John,
    I don’t know if this is your first year but I have been selling select tickets for the past few seasons. The first two years the part was on, I got bids on anything that went up for sale. $300 for two fish tickets in 314. Last year? I couldn’t even get face.

    You better hope they start 2-0 and unload when the euphoria is high.

  205. John says:

    I agree 100%. But I have two in section 130 row one. and two in section 228 row one. I figure someone will want the row one field level. You can hear the players fart from there.

    zieba says:
    June 19, 2009 at 2:50 pm
    John,
    I don’t know if this is your first year but I have been selling select tickets for the past few seasons. The first two years the part was on, I got bids on anything that went up for sale. $300 for two fish tickets in 314. Last year? I couldn’t even get face.

    You better hope they start 2-0 and unload when the euphoria is high

  206. John says:

    Zieba any input on what to price Pats or Fish at would be appreciated, want the magic price where it actually sells, I see people with prices that make no sense too high so I want to go lower but not too low.

  207. Kettle1 says:

    Seneca 209

    Of course people still buy Certificates of Deposit from banks!!!! Although i do believe that people once bought a round plastic disk by the same abbreviation, before you could download everything

  208. Stu says:

    I buy my music on Limewire and in Bittorrent.

  209. Comrade nom deplume says:

    [201] John

    I hope your decision to sell the Pats tix proves prescient, and someone else is the Greater Fool for having bought them.

  210. Comrade nom deplume says:

    [191] sean

    This one isn’t means-tested, and is handled through the dealer.

    Here’s an interesting wrinkle: you can strip the car for parts first, as long as the engine and drive train are left for scrap. So the dealers are gonna make a killing by selling the cars for scrap. I will strip the car myself first, and tell the dealer to pound sand if he objects since the legislation doesn’t say who gets to sell off the parts.

  211. #216 – I still buy actual CDs. I know enough musicians that I’d feel guilty if I didn’t. I steal movies though, TPB ftw!

  212. Kettle1 says:

    Stu

    The Pirate Bay has a fantastic selection of music, movies, E-books, etc all for a very reasonable price. I particularly enjoy their rapid release of new media, usually before amazon even!!!!

    ;)

  213. reinvestor101 says:

    Dammit. If Mousavi is not seated as president in Iran, I prepared to take to the damn streets myself. O is a wimp and is too scared to support Mousavi. Guess what?? I ain’t no damn scardy cat. This nation’s damn foreign policy needs to be VERY robust not some damn wimp-like “wait and see”. China and Russia are sitting and watching what we’re gonna do. They need to see that we’re not going to put up with this crap of election stealing.

  214. Kettle1 says:

    One more unemployment tidbit for anyone interested….

    U3/U6 tends to lead Total non Farm employment by 3 – 6 months…..

  215. #220 – I particularly enjoy their rapid release of new media, usually before amazon even!!!!

    A number of times even before the official release.
    I had Bender’s Game a full week before it came out.

  216. reinvestor101 the impostor says:

    I will propose the next Tax Credit plan that can be rolled out later this year. Cash-for-Cows (flatulent ones). Those pesky flatulent cows must be put in their place. If they aren’t going to eat the right diet, it’s steak dinner for everyone. These menaces must be dealt with now, before it is too late. I propose that we pay anyone who turns in a flatulent cow $10,000. The cows would then be turned into steaks and given to real estate investors and Rock Ribbed Americans who pay all the taxes. The poor would receive the tongues and leftover portion of the entrails, because fair is fair you get what you put in. Since the price of milk would rise to $19 a gallon due to the shortage of cows, the poor would be given a milk tax credit. This can’t possibly go wrong. Please contact your congressman today to support my bill MOO-$10,000.

  217. zieba says:

    J,

    I usually put the tickets on ebay at an amount above face and advertise how great the section, crowd, sun, kid friendly yet drunk, seats, row and game is. I don’t try to make too money mostly I just bail from going. I also emphasize the fact that I will meet face to face in NYC area to capture my nervous first time internet crowd. As the game draws nearer I am mindful of time decay and adjust my price minimum/buy it now accordingly.

    Last year I had trouble selling tickets because all the cops and construction workers that bought them from me no longer had $3-400 to blow on a game. After unloading both at face or below I opted out of my usual allotment this time around.

    It’s a little early to sell now, wait until the preseason games come around. Who is thinking football in June? I’ve sold all of my tickets just weeks prior to the game.

  218. Kettle1 says:

    Tosh,

    I must admit that i am also quite fond of their fan mail section. Very enjoyable reading..

    http://tinyurl.com/mf9ps

  219. Victorian says:

    Tosh (219) –

    “I steal movies though, TPB ftw!”

    Tru Dat!

  220. Safeashouses says:

    Are there any bad areas in Livingston? Looking at Essex county for my next place.

  221. lisoosh says:

    Shore Guy says:
    June 19, 2009 at 11:45 am

    “Such a serious response to an attempt at humor….”

    Ooops.

    That went right over my head.

  222. Between TPB, Hulu and atdhe.net I got rid of the TV portion of my cable service a few weeks ago.

  223. John says:

    Cool, also by then the Jets ticket exchange will be up. I am not looking to make a killing just sell the few big games to cover the losses from the few bad games, bribes must be way down if the cops can’t afford tickets.

    zieba says:
    June 19, 2009 at 3:22 pm
    J,

    I usually put the tickets on ebay at an amount above face and advertise how great the section, crowd, sun, kid friendly yet drunk, seats, row and game is. I don’t try to make too money mostly I just bail from going. I also emphasize the fact that I will meet face to face in NYC area to capture my nervous first time internet crowd. As the game draws nearer I am mindful of time decay and adjust my price minimum/buy it now accordingly.

  224. John says:

    http://www.tv-links.cc/

    this site is bomb for free tv

  225. reinvestor101 the impostor says:
  226. chicagofinance says:

    The end is nigh……
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/31444320

  227. reinvestor101 says:

    reinvestor101 the impostor says:
    June 19, 2009 at 3:18 pm
    I will propose the next Tax Credit plan that can be rolled out later this year. Cash-for-Cows (flatulent ones). Those pesky flatulent cows must be put in their place. If they aren’t going to eat the right diet, it’s steak dinner for everyone. These menaces must be dealt with now, before it is too late. I propose that we pay anyone who turns in a flatulent cow $10,000. The cows would then be turned into steaks and given to real estate investors and Rock Ribbed Americans who pay all the taxes. The poor would receive the tongues and leftover portion of the entrails, because fair is fair you get what you put in. Since the price of milk would rise to $19 a gallon due to the shortage of cows, the poor would be given a milk tax credit. This can’t possibly go wrong. Please contact your congressman today to support my bill MOO-$10,000.

    What the hell. This is the craziest damn thing that’s EVER been posted here–and there’s been some crazy stuff posted.

    At least you admitted you were a damn imposter. Guess what?? You might be able to divert these damn grasshoppers like zeiba and Pat who are constantly trying to get me. I hope they get you and get you real good. Dirtbag.

  228. John says:

    You better head tax them!

    Pat says:
    June 18, 2009 at 7:54 pm
    you guys suck

  229. John says:

    also for our arab friends will there be a head cheese tax?

  230. Yep, you are so right. Thanks for posting this interesting article.

  231. I did so much searching and finally can find the info here at your blog. Thanks very much.

  232. John says:

    Monthly Apartment Rent
    High Price — New York, N.Y.: $3,500
    Low Price — Marion-McDowell, N.C.: $463
    National Average: $812

    Good thing everyone earns 250K and up in NYC!

  233. skep-tic says:

    W8ting–

    if you will be working in Purchase you should look into Greenwich, Stamford, New Canaan, Wilton and Ridgefield CT. Massive tax advantage vs Westchester and Purchase is right on the CT border

  234. skep-tic says:

    #210

    “i am currently living in a 2br apt on the 2nd story of a 2 family house. i was looking to move into a 3br house somewhere. my max budget i’m hoping to spend monthly is around $2100 (currently paying $1575) so it’s been tough finding something in my price range in westchester.”

    on that budget, working in Purchase, best bet for rentals would be White Plains and Port Chester. Check out craigslist westchester

  235. W8ting says:

    Thanks for the suggestions. I will be checking out Westchester and CT. My wife wants to stay in NJ (to be closer to her friends) so i’ll be checking northern NJ also (near 287)

  236. condoguy says:

    i do have a rental waiting for a tenant in Washington Township, was asking 2500, but can go down a bit. 2bd/ba townhouse + clubhouse, tenniscourt, bus in front of the complex, around GSP exit168, can take 15 min to TZ. Would you be intersted, if so I can send more info and I can bypass my agent fee.

  237. Hi. I like the way you write. Will you post some more articles?

  238. Good job narrowing down all the information.

  239. Great!. I’m going to bookmark this for later!

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