NJ income drop steepest in nation

From New Jersey Newsroom:

N.J.’s median income down $7,214, biggest drop in nation

New Jersey’s median household income declined by $7,214 between 2006 and 2008, the largest dollar decrease in the nation, according to newly-released U.S. Census Bureau statistics, and that is providing campaign fodder for Republicans to attack Gov. Jon Corzine’s economic recovery efforts.

New Jersey, which had the highest two-year average income in the nation at $71,284 in 2005-2006, dropped to fifth at $64,070 in 2007-2008.

The state 10.1 percent decline in median income was exceeded only by Vermont’s 10.3 percent. No other state declined by more than 6.4 percent including neighboring Delaware, a 4.5 percent decline; New York, 2.2 percent, and Pennsylvania, 1.1 percent.

This entry was posted in Economics. Bookmark the permalink.

104 Responses to NJ income drop steepest in nation

  1. grim says:

    BFF comes early, Corus goes down.

    DIF death pool? $4 billion?

  2. Wheaties says:

    I’m just shocked. Shocked I tell ya. But seriously, if the median income falls 10.1% but the U3 number is at ~10% (meaning 10% are making roughly 50% less) then the rest of the lost income is due to the forced part-timers. The NY and Boston areas are ridiculously over-priced when considering median income before they announced it was down 10%. This included the low mortgage rates. When will home prices come down near NY to reasonable levels?

  3. Essex says:

    Nope. We’ve made roughly the same money for the past 6 years. Thank God.

  4. Essex says:

    Not that I love Corzine…but what is the heavy set fellow going to do?

  5. Essex says:

    I love when people play politics.

  6. Sean says:

    Corus!! Here is some humor from the calculated risk site.

    Comment:
    Wait, there must be some mistake. I just read this on the Corus website:

    Corus has established a strong track record of profitability, made possible by a number of factors, including efficiency and entrepreneurship

  7. gman says:

    Yea income falls 10% and next year property taxes will probably go up 10%. A recipe for disaster is brewing..

  8. Mrdenis says:

    Dow on 9/11/01 9605…….Dow on 9/11/09…9605. ….the market never opened on 9/11/01

  9. gman says:

    #9

    That’s pretty strange…

  10. sastry says:

    “The White House says that Obama does not want illegal immigrants to be able to buy insurance through the new purchasing exchange as they would be allowed to do under Democratic legislation in the House. Spokesman Robert Gibbs said the White House will work with lawmakers on language to enforce that.”

    OK, we won’t let them buy insurance, but we will gladly pay ER costs when they show up… Unless, we need a “citizenship verification procedure” at hospitals, which may backfire for people that are citizens but do not have all documents with them.

    Wonderful. Just as we all take off shoes just because one idiot shoe-bomber, we’ll all have to carry ids in order to ensure that some poor “illegal” doesn’t get medical care.

    S

  11. Shore Guy says:

    Sastry,

    I heard that comment by Gibbs. I have been waiting to hear someone, anyone, in the media point out that this amounts to FREE healthcare for illegals, forever.

    Care to join the GOP?

  12. veto that says:

    “My Berkeley Heights Teacher neighbors who retired are getting $7774/month & 3558/month as retired teachers (a couple) with COLA and Free Medical.”

    Confused, I realize the public pensions are a bit bloated but during the strong years these govt workers were stuck in dead-end jobs that paid peanuts with no bonus while the rest of the professional world was working for private sector making a couple hundred thousand per year.
    Once Wall St melted down, everyone immediately wants to pull out the pitchforks.

    Thats normal i guess. I think it will fix itself. The local politicians who continue to maintain bloated payrolls will feel the heat eventually.

  13. sastry says:

    Shore, but the “exclude illegals” part has been pushed by the GOP — and Joe Wilson. Original dems’ bill was that “illegals” can buy the public insurance but they will not get tax credits (financially a good deal for the govt).

    I think it is no longer a dem vs GOp issue. The medical malpractice lawsuits, costs of prescription drugs, excessively defensive medical treatment, etc., are all major issues and won’t fit in the “base” of one party or the other.

    It’s a bit depressing actually how this is playing out.

    S

  14. grim says:

    From the FDIC:

    MB Financial Bank, National Association, Chicago, Illinois, Assumes All of the Deposits of Corus Bank, National Association, Chicago, Illinois

    Corus Bank, National Association, Chicago, Illinois, was closed today by the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, which appointed the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) as receiver. To protect the depositors, the FDIC entered into a purchase and assumption agreement with MB Financial Bank, National Association, Chicago, Illinois, to assume all of the deposits of Corus Bank, N.A.

    he FDIC estimates that the cost to the Deposit Insurance Fund (DIF) will be $1.7 billion. MB Financial Bank’s acquisition of all the deposits was the “least costly” resolution for the FDIC’s DIF compared to alternatives. Corus Bank is the 90th FDIC-insured institution to fail in the nation this year, and the sixteenth in Illinois. The last FDIC-insured institution closed in the state was Platinum Community Bank, Rolling Meadows, on September 4, 2009.

  15. Outofstater says:

    Um, if people are here illegally, it means they broke the law, right? So, shouldn’t they be tossed out instead of given free medical care? Or do we all get to pick and choose which laws to obey?

  16. Outofstater says:

    Um, if people are here illegally, it means they broke the law, right? So, shouldn’t they be tossed out instead of given free medical care? Or do we all get to pick and choose which laws to obey?

  17. Stu says:

    What’s another 1,700,000,000 billion when the national debt is a mere 12,000,000,000,000.

    Of course, this only works out to $38,900 per citizen. This will be small beans when the hyperinflation kicks in.

  18. sastry says:

    Outofstater…

    The problem is that many “real american patriots” prefer to hire illegals at low cost for unskilled tasks. And some people become illegal after they come in on tourist/student/whatever visas, and they can also provide skilled labor for a low value.

    One reasonable solution will be impose strict fines on the “illegal, patriotic employers”. The war on “illegals” is so much like the war on drugs. There is huge demand.

    There is a saying about some environmental activists: “why do they go after old women in fur coats instead of bikers gangs in leather outfits”. Likewise, why would the right go after poor mexicans that are working for mostly sub-minimum wage jobs instead of going after the boss that hires them?

    Your outrage is very much misplaced. An analogy would be that of a selective outrage towards prost!tutes and silently ignoring the p!mps and treating the johns as exemplary citizens.

    S

  19. sastry says:

    “So, shouldn’t they be tossed out instead of given free medical care? Or do we all get to pick and choose which laws to obey?”

    The enforcement issue… What is the safeguard against a stupid clerk (or a clever racist misanthropist at a hospital) denying coverage for my kid (who is an American Citizen) or me (I am not, but have a GC), because he/she thinks we look illegal. What if the idiots insist on me getting the “true original passport and visa”, not the “fake looking one”? It would be like Nazi Germany — only at a small scale, and very very random.

    S

  20. lostinny says:

    11 & 20 Sastry

    “What if the idiots insist on me getting the “true original passport and visa”, not the “fake looking one”? It would be like Nazi Germany — only at a small scale, and very very random.”

    I am glad you mentioned this. The first thing I thought of after your post 11 is “Wo sind Ihre Papiere?”

  21. 3b says:

    Hello to those I still know here, and to the newbies. Don’t really come around any more, nothing really left to say.

    And in a mellow rant I have to say after being a long time poster that the spirit has changed. I don’t mind the arguments heck I used to love getting into the thick of some of them myself.

    But the discussions are not in my mind what they used to be, and there is alot more whinging on the board. In addition too many generalities, myths, misinformation, and some down right cluelessness, being stated as fact. (mellow rant off).

    Anyhow the stupidity in this country is from the top all the way down, and you cannot fix self induced stupidity.

    Two current listings in my blue ribbon Bergen town are listed below.

    1. This one bank owned on/off the market at 299k, did not sell. Back on at 325K??? Yeah I guess now it will sell.
    http://www.njmls.com/cf/details.cfm?mls_number=2919978&id=999999

    2. This cute as a button bungaloo was on the market at 249k for months (overlooks the train station), did not sell back on the market at……..428K!!! (mellow WTF!)

    http://www.njmls.com/cf/details.cfm?mls_number=2920986&id=999999

    My point in all this don’t/can’t fight the madness, so stop worrying, but prices are going to continue to fall (the above 2 examples aside), and fall hard.

    There is no real valid reason to buy now,save simply that you may want to.

    If you have the down payment and are very,very, secure in your employment and you feel you must, than so be it.

    If not than don’t and if you are getting grief from a spouse, family members, or friends tell them go scratch (nicely of course.

    Oh and high taxes do not equal better town, or Bergenfield and Teaneck would be at the top. And for all you blue ribbon wannbees looking in, it may not be what you expected once you are in. I live in one so I can speak from experience.

    Take a break from the njmls/gsmls, stop worrying, enjoy your life, the years go. And stop with the I can’t start my life until I have a house;its BS.

    It is only 4 walls and a roof, and as a former homeowner, I can say, yes it is nice, but the novelty will wear off, but the 10k a year and rising property taxes will continue to rise.

    Good luck to you. I may pop my head in the blog so to speak from time to time.

    Take Care.

  22. Outofstater says:

    Sastry – First of all, I am not outraged, just perplexed. And I do agree with you that the employers – and johns – should be targeted. I’m sorry your child was denied care because he/she “looked” illegal. That was wrong but fake ID’s are a problem. I don’t know what the solution is but I know we can’t afford to provide free ER care indefinitely.

  23. stan says:

    #19-
    Sastry-

    Relax. You’ve got a mighty big chip on your shoulder.

  24. grim says:

    IMHO, the $1.7 billion on Corus is wildly understated. But let’s just put that aside and add another $0.3b for an even $2b hit to the DIF tonight.

    From the FDIC:

    First-Citizens Bank & Trust Company, Raleigh, North Carolina, Assumes All of the Deposits of Venture Bank, Lacy, Washington

    Venture Bank, Lacy, Washington, was closed today by the Washington Department of Financial Institutions, which appointed the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) as receiver. To protect the depositors, the FDIC entered into a purchase and assumption agreement with First-Citizens Bank & Trust Company, Raleigh, North Carolina, to assume all of the deposits of Venture Bank.

    The FDIC estimates that the cost to the Deposit Insurance Fund (DIF) will be $298 million. First-Citizens Bank & Trust Company’s acquisition of all the deposits was the “least costly” resolution for the FDIC’s DIF compared to alternatives. Venture Bank is the 92nd FDIC-insured institution to fail in the nation this year, and the third in Washington. The last FDIC-insured institution closed in the state was Westsound Bank, Bremerton, on May 8, 2009.

  25. Macchievelli for 2012 says:

    in response #5 Essex:

    If Christie wins & to right this ship & do the right thing he’s going to have to play very hard & break some heads from the onset. And it mainly means reducing massively the size of public government payroll in an efficient way.
    Everyone knows about municipal duplication of services & cost efficiency of mergers, preferably at County Level or below (studies have shown that the most efficient size seems to be 100,000 population). But local town fiefdoms don’t want it.
    Well, under NJ strong governor provision & Office of Emergency Management/Patriot Act rules- the Governor using the State Police – can usurp local elected officials authority over the Police/Fire/EMS.
    Christie will have to use those provision using financial/public safety issues & essentially deputized them as State Police, run them & force merge them & devolve the power to the merge authority.
    Same with the Board of Ed into Unified/County Districts using the State Dept of Ed.
    If not done, it does not matter who gets elected. It will continue going down, until each town by themselves crack & act upon the mergers/dissolution/bankruptcies.

  26. Stu says:

    Mach…keep dreamin’

    This is how it works. Christie gets elected and immediately does everything in his power to make sure that he gets reelected. This pretty much means sell out to the unions and corporate interests. Same as it ever was.

  27. Macchievelli for 2012 says:

    That is why – I think 3rd/4th parties have a big future. Reality is setting in that there is only 1 party – A Corporate party with social conservative/liberal wings.

    From ’91 till now -the one that was right was Ross Perot. He predicted NAFTA’s failure – it only helped the 36 mexican ruling families that run the 39 mexican conglomerates.

    The new parties will have to be nationalistic, because our problem is we have a “Tragedy of the Common” moment. The corporate free trade fantasy/ideology is killing the country.

    By the way anybody knows which is the closest living relative of Teddy or Franklin Roosevelt. Genetically – they seem to have a knack for the right thing.

  28. veto that says:

    Obama Imposes Tariffs on $1.7 Billion in Chinese Tire Imports

    Sept. 11 (Bloomberg) — President Barack Obama imposed tariffs starting at 35 percent on $1.7 billion of tire imports from China, backing a United Steelworkers union complaint against the second-largest U.S. trading partner.

    White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said in an e-mailed statement that the additional duties would last for three years, dropping each year by 5 percentage points.

    The case is the largest so-called safeguard petition filed to protect U.S. producers from surging imports from China, and was a test of Obama’s approach to trade disputes. The steelworkers union represents 15,000 employees at 13 tire plants in the U.S.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aCU3AntVg8.k

  29. Pat says:

    http://www.newsweek.com/id/215177?from=rss
    The Banker Who Saved Wall Street ??

    I hope there’s a follow-up article on the citizens who saved Wall Street and how the process devalued current growth, leading to diminishing returns for job creation.

  30. veto that says:

    Summers: High unemployment for years

    The president’s chief economic adviser warned Friday that the nation’s unemployment rate could stay “unacceptably high” for years to come — a situation that would seriously complicate Barack Obama’s ability to convince Americans that he’s beating back the recession.

    “Today, the question is, when will the recession phase end?” Summers said. He said the forecast is “for economic growth at a significant rate during the second half of 2009.”

    But as is usually the case in economic recovery, job creation continues to lag. The national unemployment rate is at 9.7 percent, a 26-year high, and Obama has repeatedly said he ultimately expects it to hit double-digits before beginning to fall again.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0909/27052.html#ixzz0Qqx3h2qL

  31. Essex says:

    13. Perhaps those “dead end” jobs will be more appealing now. Not the fast buck of a big paycheck, But a slow and steady gain. Good for the retirees.

  32. Pat says:

    Macwhatever. I’m related to Hoover. If you can’t find a Roosevelt, just take what I say and reverse it.

  33. Essex says:

    Did anyone honestly expect this Recession to end this year? This might be the great unwind.

  34. confused in NJ says:

    13.veto that says:
    September 11, 2009 at 7:23 pm
    “My Berkeley Heights Teacher neighbors who retired are getting $7774/month & 3558/month as retired teachers (a couple) with COLA and Free Medical.”

    Confused, I realize the public pensions are a bit bloated but during the strong years these govt workers were stuck in dead-end jobs that paid peanuts with no bonus while the rest of the professional world was working for private sector making a couple hundred thousand per year.
    Once Wall St melted down, everyone immediately wants to pull out the pitchforks.

    Thats normal i guess. I think it will fix itself. The local politicians who continue to maintain bloated payrolls will feel the heat eventually.

    The teacher (social studies) getting a pension of $7,774 per month had an ending salary of $118,000 for 9 months work.

  35. yikes says:

    a day late on this michelle obama piece from “x-nj”

    http://njrereport.com/index.php/2009/09/10/foreclosure-wave-hits-nj/#comment-325785

    it was debunked by snopes

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/firstlady.asp

    who sent the original email to you, jamil?

  36. gary says:

    New Jersey’s median household income declined by $7,214 between 2006 and 2008, the largest dollar decrease in the nation.

    No problem, Corzine can easily raise revenue by increasing the sales tax 14.5%, increasing the realty transfer fee to 2% of the sale price and by placing toll plazas on the on ramps of route 80 from Fort Lee to Roxbury.

  37. brewcrew says:

    Imagine what those income decline numbers would look like in a year or so if the teachers weren’t averaging 4% increases this coming year.

  38. Essex says:

    The perfect example of the disconnect between Congress and the people. Our government has been bought and sold, first by the Bushes and Clinton, and now by the Grandson of a Banker. On a day on which hundreds of civil servants perished striving to save financial robber barons, it makes me ill to see the utter disregard that Wall Street, Greenwich, and K Street have for anyone but themselves. Valiant men and women still perish for government pay, while these bespoken bandits reek undeserved riches. Sickness rules on Wall Street. And no cure will come from Washington. America is dying under the rule of the rich.

  39. Essex says:

    oops…reek=reap

  40. Frank says:

    Crisis?? what crisis?? Recession? what recession?

    “A Year After a Cataclysm, Little Change on Wall St.”

    “Pay is already returning to precrash levels, topped by the 30,000 employees of Goldman Sachs, who are on track to earn an average of $700,000 this year. Nor are major pay cuts likely, according to a report last week from J.P. Morgan Securities. Executives at most big banks have kept their jobs. Financial stocks have soared since their winter lows.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/12/business/12change.html?_r=1&hp

  41. Essex says:

    No one should be surprised that there has been meaningful reform in the past year. Our Congress has been bought by the financial industry through countless millions of dollars of lobbying and campaign contributions. Does anyone recall approximately 18 months ago when Sen. Schumer proposed taxing private equity and hedge fund earnings at regular tax rates as opposed to the 15% capital gains “loophole” rate? He was quickly quieted and never heard from again on the matter because of the vast sums of money his campaigns have received from the financial services industry.

    It is difficult to comprehend the fact that the taxpayers have backed these financial behemoths to the tune of trillions of dollars, yet they continue on with their incredibly risky derivative and other exotic trading regimes. They continue to pay themselves billions of dollars of bonuses with our money. What astounds me is that there has been no meaningful public outcry, no march on Wall Street and Washington to protest such such arrogance and deception.

    The stock market bottomed six months ago when it appeared that the financial system was close to going under. Citigroup, Bank of America and many other major banks sat with billions upon billions of bad debt. The so-called “TALF” program was designed to alleviate the bad debt. Yet, six months later, the stock market has soared while these same banks have sold virtually none of their toxic “assets”. So what has changed? Nothing really. This is the “false spring”, the calm before the next major storm. Moral hazard is still with us, but it can only go so far before our nation’s credit will no longer be accepted.

  42. Don’t forget the other significant anniversary: 9/15/08 (Lehman fails).

    9/11, we can get past. LEH- and the shit tsunami that’s occurred since? Not so sure.

  43. sx (40)-

    They better buy our debt, or we’ll drop some daisy cutters on them.

    The tire tariffs vs China are just the beginning. This thing is gonna play out just like the ’30s.

  44. Yet another way to start a civil war:

    “In an act unprecedented nobility, granted using other people’s money, the FDIC sent out a release today, encouraging its loss-share partners who have acquired failed banks on the back of taxpayers’ footing the bulk of the balance sheet risk and cost, essentially guaranteeing profits for these same partners, to “consider temporarily reducing mortgage payments for borrowers who are unemployed or underemployed.” The FDIC’s recommendation: “to reduce the loan payment to an affordable level for at least six months.” And the kicker, once again subsidized by those taxpayers who live within their means yet do not find it critical to live in a house they can not afford: “losses incurred in subsequent foreclosures or short sales are covered losses.”

    http://tinyurl.com/m6zxoh

  45. yo'me says:

    #22 Sastry – First of all, I am not outraged, just perplexed. And I do agree with you that the employers – and johns – should be targeted. I’m sorry your child was denied care because he/she “looked” illegal. That was wrong but fake ID’s are a problem. I don’t know what the solution is but I know we can’t afford to provide free ER care indefinitely

    As far as i know,you get medical care and give your address and real name,if the hospital can not collect your debt they will sell it to a collector and harrass you.Ask any of the illegals that made the mistake of giving their real name and address.And besides,the bill they get is much more than if the insurance was paying.This is a game that hospital play for write offs.

  46. yo'me says:

    #44 is for #22 outofstater comment.

  47. Outofstater says:

    #44 Yo – But that’s the point – many of them don’t use their real name and address. Some have two sets of fake ID’s – one for work, and one for medical care. The hospitals don’t collect on the debt, the doctors are stiffed and the rest of us pay for it, one way or another. And it’s not just illegals – many American citizens don’t pay their medical bills either, even for routine office visits, with or without insurance. Somehow, some people have no problem paying for services like those offered by a plumber or a roofer, but they seem to think that someone else should pay for the services offered by the medical profession. I find that really odd. That’s why Barbara’s idea about paying cash from a previous thread has some appeal. It’s a really tricky problem.

  48. veto that says:

    “The teacher (social studies) getting a pension of $7,774 per month had an ending salary of $118,000 for 9 months work.”

    Yeah, thats too much money.

  49. veto that says:

    China Government ‘Strongly Opposes’ U.S. Tire Tariff Imposition

    Sept. 12 (Bloomberg) — China “strongly opposes” U.S. President Barack Obama’s decision to impose tariffs on tire imports from China and may refer the case to the World Trade Organization, the Asian country’s Ministry of Commerce said.

    The U.S. violated rules of the WTO and the tariff imposition is a breach of the commitments made by the U.S. at the Group of 20 summits, the ministry said in a statement posted on its Web site, citing spokesman Yao Jian. The move will harm both countries’ interests and produce a chain reaction of trade protectionism, slowing world economic recovery, it added.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aDaADw2buNgg

  50. chicagofinance says:

    One of the greatest Bloomberg headlines of all time….

    UBS Employee Called CDO ‘Vomit’ in 2007 E-Mail (Update1)
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aIdHERaRSLCM

  51. leftwing says:

    Re: Illegals

    Nice treatise, Sastry, but you still didn’t answer Out’s question.

    When illegals hit the grid – traffic stop, OB GYN, hospital (non-life threatening), or at a construction site for a high end house – why aren’t they promptly removed and shipped back?

    While I appreciate the argument of whether it is better to control demand or supply, drug lords and illegals are not analogous.

    It is a very high cost affair for the illegal to attempt entry. Start sending thousands back after they’ve risked life and life savings to get over here and word will get around the villages pretty quickly that the risk is not worth the reward….

  52. GerryAdams says:

    Veto –
    Data Universe for Berkley Heights linked below. No teacher is making 118k. Supervisors, principals, and superintendents are. The highest teacher salary is $105200. The number of classes taught for everyone above $105k is 0. Also, the average years of experience for all teachers above $100k is 35.5 years. Unlike cops, teachers do not get to use OT or other bumps in salary for their pensions. Cops get to include overtime in their pension calculations. Hence, the reason so many retired the year after 9-11.

    How much do you want to bet that there are more cops making over 100k in Berkeley Heights than teachers? Do you think that they have an average of 35+ years of experience too?

    There are towns that have low teacher salaries. That the idea behind local control – people can get up and move out the high-tax, good school towns and and move to somewhere like Toms River where the taxes are low and kvetching about teachers is the norm.

    http://php.app.com/edstaff/results2.php?pageNum_Recordset1=0&totalRows_Recordset1=302&county=UNION&district=BERKELEY+HEIGHTS&school=%25&lname=&fname=&job1=%25&tfm_order=DESC&tfm_orderby=SALARY

  53. leftwing says:

    The better analogy for immigration law enforcement is DWI laws.

    A generation ago DWI laws were routinely ignored. The cops, if they stopped you, would drive you home more times than not.

    Today, very few people drive drunk. Deaths and accidents associated with DWI have plummeted.

    One difference – stricter enforcement. People now know that if you are caught DWI, you will be arrested no matter who you are. Kids in the car, add a child endangerment charge.

    Do the same on immigration. Every illegal here knows they are at minimal risk of actually be punished if caught. Heck, we send that message from the highest levels with programs like driver licenses….

  54. nw says:

    re: illegals

    I think the unintended consequences should be considered before setting up any new program/enforcement.

    Illegals are basically a subsidy provided to business. Businesses can hire them for cheap and the general public pays for their social welfare.

    If you end that relationship, I think you will see a) a lot of small business failures(restaurants, contracting, landscaping), and b) inflation across the board.

    If you bring all labor on the books, everything will go up in price.

  55. nw says:

    But, yea, you have to take on the illegals and trial lawyers before any health care reform.

  56. Sean says:

    Petty good size turnout at the Tea Party in DC.

    Seems the DC police took the opportunity to search the FreedomWorks offices, due to a bomb scare.

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2009/09/bomb-threat-forces-evacuation-of-dc-tea-party-planners.html

  57. Sean says:

    We cannot round up the illegals, the world accuse of of being Nazis since you would need create large camps to store them all for deportation. There are estimated to be 500k in NJ and over a million in NY. Mexico would probably close their border with the US if we tried to dump millions of people across it.

    What we can do is tax them. Add another 12 million to the tax rolls, might as well give them driver licenses too, and make sure they are insured but no citizenship, and say perhaps they need to go home when their temporary worker permit expires.

    The rest of the world uses temporary worker permits taxes those workers and routinely kicks people out when the permit expires so why can’t we?

  58. yo'me says:

    Before the amnesty of 1983 an illegal can get work in a company with health insurance and all the benefits that a legal can,as long as they have a ssn and a drivers licence,which was not hard to get during that time.They were paying automatic deduction payroll taxes,a legal will.The amnesty came to put a grip on illegal immigration.Unintended
    conseqeunces is what is happenning now.Just like #53 said we all benefited from them.Unless very sick,they will not go to a hospital,afraid being deported.I agree they committed a crime being here illegal.Is it really worth thousands what they go through to have the american dream?You know how hard life is in the US.My son just graduated making 50 grand can not stand on his own.How much this illegals make?Deduct what they send to their families at home,living expenses,they are in the gutter.But the hope of a better life,which most find impossible.Taking chances here than in their own country is much better.

  59. alia says:

    23; Stan- Um, is that like “Relax, and think of England”? Because when in doubt, I tend to take the side of the person who has more experience being the underdog.

    (And oh look, http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2008/05/05/fantasy-and-science-fiction-bingo-no-racism-in-fiction-edition/

    …i’m so close to getting to shout Bingo I can taste it…)

  60. yikes says:

    re: Armored car piece …

    This year, for instance, DuPont launched a new technology in Brazil using Kevlar, the same material used in bulletproof vests. The process costs $10,000 but protects drivers only from .38 caliber handguns, not more powerful 9mm weapons. A DuPont promotional flier, targeting middle-class buyers, promises “peace of mind at accessible prices.”

    … how is that going to stop ANYONE?

  61. Barbara says:

    57.
    Yo,
    thats all good, until your 1st grader is forced to go through his entire grade school in a sh*tty overcrowded trailer because the student population 3X in a matter of a year.
    Lets be clear, you can recognize that a problem is real without demonizing the people who are part of that problem. At some point we have to be able to talk about this issue sanely. The stresses this illegal population is putting on muncipalities is real, I live it every day.

    I suppose if you live in an upper crust suburb in NJ its easy to sit back, unaffected by the rubber hits the road realities and talk about cheaper lettuce and lawn services. Its a different story at jump city.

  62. kettle1 says:

    Barb, Yikes

    Follow the money. Illegal immigration has been the US governments answer to slave level labor in the east as globalization has progressed. I am all for actually enforcing immigration and kicking out those who have entered illegally. But also realize that that is highy unlikely to ever happen as it would have a massive impact on american businesses.

    Its not that Americans wont do the jobs. hey just wont do them for slave wages.

    have to pay realistic wages would promptly make many businesses unprofitable or much less so. And in a world of globalization that means the work them shifts oversees to the area with lower wages.

    The only way to keep wages higher and deal with immigration would be a new wave on american economic protectionism and so level of disconnection from globalism.

    Not going to happen. I am also not advocating protectionism.

  63. srt8 up says:

    RE: 51

    Is it all significant that Kindergarten is spell wrong in that Berkley Heights data?

    “Elementary Kindergraten-8 Grade”

  64. Barbara says:

    62. mmmmmmmmm, Kindergratennnnnn…

  65. kettle1 says:

    Barb

    LOL

    Kinder = German root for children (apparently a derogatory term in German)

    Graten = Covered with bread crumbs and sometimes butter and grated cheese, and then browned in an oven

    as you said, mmmmmmmmm kindergraten

  66. yo'me says:

    If you are a renter in a town,why does it make a difference if your kid goes to school with legals?Landlord pays the taxes legal or not.The only crime i know the illegals have commited is being here illegaly.They pay taxes when they buy food,pay rent just like most of us.If they can pay federal taxes legally they will just like before the 80s.
    Find a plumber that will fix your faucet during the boom years,$120.00 just to come and they don’t want to be bothered.Go in a street corner find Jose he will be glad to help you for $20 bucks.

  67. Barbara says:

    64.
    Kettle
    the jokes are funnier when you don’t have to explain them ;P

  68. Barbara says:

    65.
    yo’me
    because they overcrowd houses with several adults and a dozen kids living in one single family. They over tax the water and sewage systems, wear down housing stock from over use and abuse due to over crowding and break down general infrastructure, etc.

    Take a house that was built for 5 people, then fill it with 15. Now X that by every 75% of the houses in your town, see what you get.

  69. New in NJ says:

    I lived in Germany for three years, returning about 10 years ago. I don’t remember “kinder” being a derogatory term when used according to its true meaning.

    Maybe it can be used improperly, as a way to diminish the status of an adult, but to my knowledge I never heard it used that way.

  70. Barbara says:

    yo’ me
    They built the school’s sizes based on the housing stock and a presumed occupancy. The illegals cram 3X as many children is each house. We’ve brought on 14 new housing inspectors but they can’t keep up with it. They pull out the mattresses in the morning and they are back later that night.

  71. sastry says:

    Sean… re… “relax”

    I am giving a hypothetical scenario for unintended consequences — with some tie into “real birth certificate” cr@p that is being put out by many. When given a large “discretionary power of enforcement”, aggressive vigilantes or plain scared clerks can derail the quality of service for many people. It may be at a very small scale, but it will be random, and generates fear in many people — especially when is large animosity towards “illegal aliens” that “look like mexicans” [a large group indeed].

    OT on illegal aliens: many work long hours and less than minimum wages, with no guarantee of anything, and are often exploited by employers (the case of Indian couple that beat the cr@p out of phillipino maids comes to mind).

    Enforce the laws against the employers too. Just like libs should also campaign for some reform of medical malpractice suit policies.

    S

  72. freedy says:

    nj has turned into a welfare state primary cause: illegals. they have killed the
    state.

    say whatever,, take a look around.

    now you got the Muslims doing the same.

  73. jamil.hussein says:

    yo’me: “The only crime i know the illegals have commited is being here illegaly.”

    Uh. Identity theft, use of forged government IDs, welfare fraud, medical fraud (ie in medicaid), driving without license, voter fraud and frequent DWIs and other crimes. More Americans get killed annually by illegals than in war – I mean overseas contingency operations.

    This problem could be solved easily without mass-deportations. Just deport those caught immediately, deny health care from illegals and carry out immigration raids in workplaces.

    Why the heck hospitals should not ask IDs? If you buy new BMW I’m pretty sure they want to see your ID. On second thought, maybe government should force car dealers to hand out BMWs to anybody. If the dealer is nice, I can check to him 2 weeks later. If I forgot that, government will it.

  74. jamil.hussein says:

    2 million people protesting against reckless spending in DC today.

    Too bad they were not paid by deranged billionaire and bused by professional voter fraud/child prostitution organization. Then it would be real grassroots rally justifying front-page coverage by State Media.

    http://michellemalkin.cachefly.net/michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/live912.jpg

  75. d2b says:

    There seems to be a common opinion that the country is overrun with illegal immigrants that work for one nickel per hour, stealing American jobs.

    While there are exploitation and other issues that sometimes happen, these are almost certainly the exception, not the norm. There is a network in many communities where illegals live and work where they share info. An illegal that is unhappy can move from job to job just like us. In fact, it’s probably easier to for them to move that most of us.

    This threat of leaving keeps their wages higher than one thinks.

    The reality is that there are jobs in this country that we don’t want to do anymore. And someone that hires both will sometimes pick the illegal over the American, not because they can push the illegal around. They hire them because they show up, work hard, and do a good job.

    There are also a ton of Americans working for cash in this country. The reality is that the working class, legal or illegal, is the true grease that keeps this country humming. That is why I suspect that there will never be a true crackdown on illegal immigration.

  76. danzud says:

    In case you were wondering if some people trying to sell houses aren’t still on crack, here’s a new winner.

    http://www.century21rutherford.com/propertydetail.asp?listnum=2937679&source=N

    Are they out of their freaking minds trying to sell a 2BR townhome in Lyndhurst…..LYNDHURST?????? FOR $559K!!!!!!

    Let’s put it this way, we’re going to chatting on this website for a long, long time so long as we still have idiots trying to peddle ridiculously overpriced housing.

  77. jamil.hussein says:

    well, it’s not always easy being a teacher near NJ public housing projects..

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,549581,00.html?test=latestnews

    Cops: New Jersey Student Threatened to Rape and Kill Teacher If She Didn’t Give Class ‘A++’

    He has been identified only as a student at the Paterson Charter School for Science and Technology.

    He is also accused of threatening to rape the teacher’s mother and sister if the grades were not changed within 48 hours.

    The boy turned himself in to Passaic County authorities Friday and was charged with making terroristic threats and criminal coercion.

  78. dan smatherly says:

    Well, I am glad that for once the republicans are having issues with the illegals. I am against illegal immigrants. My parents had to immigrate with green cards and the whole deal, not wait for a handout from the government. Meanwhile George Bush, probably because he married a Mexican-American woman, was so soft on illegals it was hilarious. He didn’t mind if they came pouring across the border. His immigration “reforms” meant that someone coming from Mexico could just hang out long enough and be given citizenship. Meanwhile someone from Europe—especially someone with a decent education, the ability to speak English, and the desire to contribute something—would have to wait forever for the lottery to go their way. Since Obama is beholden to African Americans, and they lose jobs to the illegals, he is fairer about this, not so willing to give up the keys to the castle.

    California, where I used to live is an example of the new bad future. All low-wage jobs are by the illegals (the poor blacks and whites are all gone) and the taxes are super-low (e.g. $15,000 a year in property taxes on the same property in LA would be $5,000), but the schools are just prison-like holding pens and the UC system is in the process of getting shut down.

    To each his own! This motto for the Republican party has been borne out of cynicism and corruption. I would like to see a genuine opposition in this country, people like Nelson Rockefeller again.

  79. kettle1 says:

    66 barb,

    yes i know,

    however being a blog with a large readership, i figured i might help a few people out.

  80. jamil.hussein says:

    “Meanwhile George Bush, probably because he married a Mexican-American woman,”

    Are you talking about Barbara Bush or Laura Bush?

  81. Shore Guy says:

    “f you end that relationship, I think you will see a) a lot of small business failures(restaurants, contracting, landscaping), and b) inflation across the board”

    These increased will be out in the open, whereas the existing costs of illegals invading this nation are largely burried within the costs of other products.

  82. kettle1 says:

    New NJ,

    the derogatory thing is according to a friend of mine who teaches german. I just dabble in the language so could be wrong.

  83. Firestormik says:

    RE illegals:
    Worst thing, if you are a citizen, live in NJ and kill somebody you’ll end up in jail. If you are illegal, in the worst case scenario you’ll be departed.

    http://www.resistnet.com/profiles/blogs/nj-grand-jury-turns-blind-eyes

    Insufficient evidence is what the grand jury said, Mr. Jose Sanchez’s running a RED LIGHT and the DEATH of Ms. Voorhees was INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE, and his brother, Mr. Lucio Sanchez’s hindering Apprehension, Obstruction Of Justice and Witness Tampering was also considered INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE and the grand jury also refused to in indict him.

  84. Qwerty says:

    leftwing @ 10:31 am,

    Exactly.

  85. confused in NJ says:

    Meanwhile George Bush, probably because he married a Mexican-American woman, was so soft on illegals it was hilarious.

    Your friend may be thinking of Jeb Bush, the President’s brother. His
    wife, Columba, is Hispanic. She was born in Mexico.

    The George’s had non Hispanic wives.

  86. scribe says:

    barbara, #69

    Where?????

  87. leftwing says:

    Any Giants fans want a deal?

    Change of plans, can’t make tomorrow’s game so I’m going to list my seasons on ebay soon.

    Figured if anyone here wants them I’d offer them to you first for face (in appreciation of all the great things I learn on here and Gary’s ‘Dear Seller’ posts).

    Sec 135, row 22. $85 each (2 or 4). You can e-mail me at pwhockey@gmail.com. I can forward the tix electronically.

  88. danzud says:

    I’m kind of mixed with the illegal immigrants. On a personal level, I want to root for all of them to succeed and make it. On a national level, we’re getting killed paying for all the extra benefits whether through social security or through hospital costs.

    A couple of years ago, I remember riding eastbound on a Thursday night from Morristown to Millburn around 11 pm on the Morris-Essex Line. It seemed like I was the only English first language person on the train as all the people coming on from Morristown and Madison and Summit were restaurant workers all speaking Spanish. Citizens? Maybe but since no one’s checking….

  89. lostinny says:

    86 leftwing
    You got mail.

  90. leftwing says:

    Lost

    I responded. i’m around on that number.

  91. chicagofinance says:

    The end is nigh….

    WSJ
    By MARK MAREMONT
    California financier Danny Pang died early Saturday at a Newport Beach hospital, his spokesman said. Mr. Pang, 42, had been taken from his Newport Beach home Friday afternoon by paramedics. The cause of death wasn’t immediately available.

    Sgt. Evan Sailor of the Newport Beach police said that foul play isn’t suspected in Mr. Pang’s death. However, he added, the autopsy is needed to help determine whether Mr. Pang’s death was due to natural causes or was self-inflicted.

  92. chicagofinance says:

    Walked into the living room with some Laphroiag. My son Hunter was reading a catalogue.

    H: Papa what’s that? Is it apple juice?
    CF: No it’s scotch.
    H: Am I big enough to have scotch?
    CF: No.
    H: My favorite drinks are water, apple juice and rice milk.
    CF: Have you ever tried Knob Creek?
    H: No. Am I big enough to have Knof Cree?
    CF: No.
    H: If you take some apple juice and mix it in the cup, I think it would taste really good.

  93. cobbler says:

    When we hear that the majority of the people hurt by the expected income tax increase for those earning over $250K are “small business owners” we should realize to what extent them employing illegals contributes to these incomes. I am not talking doctors or lawyers here (who obviously don’t do that other than inadvertently say by giving the office cleaning job to the janitorial contractor), but in a dog-eats-dog competitive environment I don’t see how e.g. a small landscaper or a roofer could have enough left for himself after paying the legal workers to make 250K. For that matter, when the leaf-blowing season begins I could hardly find one person who “looks” legal or speaks English among the dozen of crews I pass by as I drive to work. And the lowest bid I was able to get to do my leaves last year was about $350! Certainly, when the boss employs a bunch of illegals at $6 an hour that work like dogs, he has probably $280 left for himself after paying their “wages” and for the gas for the blowers.

  94. sas says:

    this omama is a bigger dipshilt than I thought..

    yikes
    SAS

  95. sas says:

    where is reinvestor101 when I need him?

    we need to go into the bulldozer buisness. This glut of commercial RE is starting to be an eye sore and we can smuggle out that copper overseas.

    SAS

  96. dude says:

    chifi, not funny at all.. i guess you had to be there. rice milk? why not get him hooked on hot dogs and ice pops instead so he can turn out a whackjob?

  97. NJGator says:

    Apologies if this has already been posted. Here’s the NYT’s love poem to glorious Brigadoon….

    Living In | Westfield, N.J.
    A Cozy Town That Appeals to All Generations

    SMALL-TOWN AMERICA A wide range of housing styles can be found throughout Westfield. Values have held up better in the middle and lower ranges, including areas like Lamberts Mill Road on the south end.

    MATT LOUGHLIN and his wife, Maggie, were raising two sons in Middlesex. But Mr. Loughlin’s broadcasting career was on the rise, so they looked to move near the Newark airport, because he traveled for work. They ended up in Westfield.

    Nearly 13 years ago, just before the birth of their third son, Liam, they paid $279,000 for a five-bedroom Dutch colonial. Mr. Loughlin’s career has advanced — he became the radio voice of the New Jersey Devils hockey team three years ago — but the family remains firmly ensconced in Westfield.

    “This sounds so pie in the sky, but it really is small-town America,” Mr. Loughlin said recently. “It’s too big of a town to say you know everybody, but you see enough people you know.”

    As families like the Loughlins have moved into Westfield, a Union County municipality of about 30,000, it has slowly lost some of its mom-and-pop ambience and morphed into a suburb of restaurants and boutiques.

    But many of the attributes that drew the Loughlins still hold sway. The town has a coziness that stems from an intergenerational appeal. People who grew up here often choose to move back as adults — to be near parents and to be parents themselves. It’s the kind of community where children ride their bicycles and skateboards downtown, gathering at delis and Italian-ice stands.

    “It’s just a very welcoming place,” said Brian Granstrand, a lawyer who moved to Westfield 24 years ago with his wife, Suzanne. They have four children, 21 to 16.

    A corollary: Because it is relatively safe and has a well-regarded school district, Westfield has also become more expensive. A recent look at the Garden State Multiple Listing Service (gsmls.com) revealed 133 homes on the market. The median price was $714,000.

    “When I retire, I think I’m going to have to move, because property taxes are very high,” Mr. Granstrand said.

    Westfield is likely to undergo still more changes. Today, it lacks direct train service to New York City; commuters must make a connection at Pennsylvania Station in Newark. But according to Andrew Skibitsky, the mayor of Westfield Township, construction is under way on a railroad tunnel that will provide direct service to Midtown Manhattan by 2016.

    Mr. Skibitsky sees this as a “major, major benefit for Westfield.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/realestate/13Living.html?em

  98. NJGator says:

    In the Region | New Jersey
    Wanted: ‘Keeper of the Flame’

    BARGAINS abound these days in the market for New Jersey’s most unusual, lavish and historic homes.

    The Montclair home renovated with architectural treasures by Michael Strahan, the retired New York Giant, and his ex-wife Jean before their acrimonious divorce two years ago is now available for $4.75 million. The property was listed last year at $7.75 million, was reduced to $5.795 million in the spring and reduced again earlier this month.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/realestate/13Njzo.html?ref=realestate

  99. the new capitalism = corporate welfare

  100. willwork4beer says:

    #98 Gator

    Must be a lot of “architectural treasures” in that house…

    4/2000 purchase price = $1,375,000

  101. Clotpoll says:

    And Favre took a dive for Strachan, too.

Comments are closed.