From the NY Times:
Reviving a Housing Market in a Swoon
ACCORDING to the early evidence, the New Jersey residential market went a bit weak in the knees in May — or even swooned — after the federal home buyer tax credit expired on April 30.
ales statistics are not yet final. But in a sample study of multiple-listing data from nine counties done by the Otteau Valuation Group of New Brunswick, which reports on the state’s real estate industry, the pace of contract signings was found to be down in all of them, and in some cases sharply.
In Middlesex County, for example, four straight months in which sales outpaced those of the year before were followed by a month of May with almost a third fewer sales than last: 467 contracts versus 672.
On average across all nine counties, according to the Otteau data, there were 23 percent fewer sales in May than there were in May 2009. The counties were: Bergen, Camden, Essex, Hudson, Middlesex, Morris, Ocean, Passaic and Union.
Even before these numbers were in, however, state lawmakers were readying plans for a new statewide tax credit, described by some as a “bridge” to help the housing market along until the overall economy fully recovers.
On June 10, legislators gave overwhelming final approval to a measure that would provide buyers with a tax credit of $15,000 (or 5 percent of the purchase price, whichever is less) over three years, as long as they lived in their homes for at least that length of time. A total of $100 million would be allocated for the program, which would place no income limits on participating buyers.
…
It is now up to Gov. Christopher J. Christie, who was silent on the issue during debate, to decide whether the program would effectively jump-start the housing market once again, and whether it makes sense at a time of budget crisis and already-declining tax revenues for the state.
…
Among the nine counties surveyed, the biggest loser was Camden, to the south, which had a 40 percent drop in sales volume last month over the previous year. Southernmost Ocean County had a 23 percent decline, whereas Bergen and Hudson Counties in northern New Jersey had only 13 percent declines.Essex County is home to Newark, one of the poorer cities in the state and its largest, as well as affluent Short Hills, where several local brokers said they had not sensed any lost momentum in May. In all, 349 contracts were signed in Essex, 22 percent fewer than last year.
Morris County had 17 percent fewer sales; in Union and Passaic, also in the north, declines were 24 and 27 percent.
See Bergen County only dropped 13 percent-
we really are special here!
As Clot once said to me at an early GTG –
“the apple rots from the outside in”……and the
“stench of death” is in Bergen.
30 new/ empty homes sitting unsold in my town,
some left unfinished by the builders.
BTW I was first!!
Amazing how both the Feds & State justify giving tax dollars away to selective voting groups. Imagine if Obama decided to give tax dollars to keep Fast Food Workers employed.
It is now up to Gov. Christopher J. Christie, who was silent on the issue during debate, to decide whether the program would effectively jump-start the housing market once again, and whether it makes sense at a time of budget crisis and already-declining tax revenues for the state.
Yes, let’s dish out $100,000,000 just so Barbi the realtor can continue to get French tips.
Can’t really see CC passing the tax credit being that the state is broke.
We don’t even have the money to pay back the Madoff suckers for chrissakes.
Oh, I get it; we want to give a $15,000 tax credit to someone who is earning less than they did 3 years ago, have $40,000 in credit card bills,
(continued)… have $4000 in a savings account, a FICO score of 550 and are currntly underwater on the POS they over-paid for in 2006. Now I get it.
Classic Realtor lines utterd to me during the hight of the boom:
1) Houses will always appreciate here because of proximity to NYC.
2) They’re not making anymore land.
3) And besides, you can always refi.
4) This bubble talk is a bunch of bullsh1t. And it’s only those subprime mortgages that are the problem.
5) This town expects a certain “type” of people.
6) Take out a 2nd mortgage on your current home to use as a down payment on the new home but don’t tell the bank what you’re really using it for.
hi,
please help. i’m looking to buy this home in river edge, nj. even though, the house is built on existing foundation to keep the taxes low, the builder will not issue new home warranty. is this fishy?
thanks.
^^
sorry, forgot to mention that the builder is a local builder and has build a hand full of homes.
Warranty? (Snickers)
You aren’t buying a car.
Trust in the builder, above all else.
was that sarcasm, grim? :P
honestly, you guys are experts here! i value your comments/suggestions greatly.
thanks.
Would a builder ever lie, or cut corners?
Hey! Great news everyone. No need to worry about the economy. According to BO, we are about to enter: Recovery Summer.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/article?a=614790&f=77
De we need to go to weekly 12-step meetings, I wonder.
Stan,
If CC does sign this into law, or allows it to pass into law without signing it, he is worthless. He can only maintain credibility by holding everyone’s feet to the fire. He already goofed by letting The Peoples Republic of Montclair to blow past the cap.
He already goofed by letting The Peoples Republic of Montclair to blow past the cap.
Seems nobody can maintain an effective cap.
Montclair is more f*cked than the Gulf.
Essex County is out. Essex county is out. Essex county is out. Essex county is out. (daily mantra)
350,000 houses are not worth 550,000…350,000 are not worth 550,000….350,000 are nor worth 550,000…(other daily mantra)
Beach day!!Painkillers served at 5PM.
Shore-
Yeah, I was hoping he would hold Montclair to the 4%.
Can’t reason why he didn’t.
Shore – You really think it was a goof?
What better way to let the money burning dems make an example of themselves than to pit the poorer south end residents against their free spending Upper Haughtyville neighbors.
The leadership in Montclair is doing a hell of a job pricing out the diversity they value so much.
Or maybe that is the point?
Grim-That’s a possibility, although I do agree with the concept of forcing the towns to deal with it on the local level and putting it up for a vote.
If ur local reps want to tax you to bolivia as the great Mike Tyson says, either vote it down or vote them out.
a lifetime of saving…..for particle board cabinets, “stone like” cermanic tile floors…twee moldings…Home Depot hollow core doors…Kwikset hardware…old aluminum siding and/or vinyl siding…Sears appliances…neighbors close enough to smell what you are cooking…deck wood on the front stoop…This is what NJ is offering me.
forgot, property taxes high enough to worry about..monthly.
Barbara,
Isn’t it pathetic? Isn’t it laughable? A fat, bloated nothingness sprinkled with an Olive Garden lifestyle. I walk into some of these dumps and can’t believe the cacophony of Yuk I experience for price tags that only a complete and utter 1diot would fall for. You totally get it. The whole f*cking country has been brainwashed into forking over every penny they have for Subway, Iron Man, Old Navy and iShit version 4.1. I’m now going to finish the lawn. Yes, I cut my own grass.
Come on folks. Do you really take the fat man or any politician at their word. The 2.5% cap will not pass in a million years and any savings you thought you were getting through his balanced budget in Trenton will either be transferred to increased fees (NJ Transit for example) or higher property taxes. If you live in a town with any so-called wealth, Christie will cost you twice as much as Corzine did. Ain’t no deductions or loopholes to exploit (cept the farming crock) to help you out. Let’s face it, NJ is screw-ew-ew-ewed.
Seriously, who in their right mind would move here and buy right now? Sky high taxes are enough for me to say….Uh No.
25. Actually Apple….is pretty exciting in terms of their innovation. The rest of the American experience is ‘f’ed’ for now.
Grim…29 in moderation.
“Painkillers served at 5PM”
Hey, this is not a day the markets are open. Why wait until then?
Lovely friends I have but I am still getting that vacant stare and glazed look when I tell them we can’t keep increasing property taxes to pay for the public school system. Begrudgingly, they might admit that there is waste in the administrative end, but that’s about all they will concede. The standard response from them is, “Schools are very important for our kids and we can’t decrease any of the funding because we have to maintain the high quality.”
This is all getting very frustrating.
Okay, folks. It is time to e-mail and call your assorted DC representatives. I suggest it is well worth the United States encating a new law that states that any foreign nation that conditions assistance to the United States, in response to a disaster here inthe United States, will be ineligible for any foreign aid, including military assistance, for a period of not less than five years from the date of the conditional offer of assistance.
If others want to help, fine. If they don’t want to, fine. Just don’t say you are when you are not.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5inKY7pPzl_Ro9FUC2qN56oflzqFAD9GDSCT01
WASHINGTON — At least 22 nations — including Britain, where BP is based — have offered oil-collecting skimmers, boom, technical experts and more to help the U.S. cope with its worst-ever environmental disaster. But their generosity comes with a price tag.
The State Department confirmed that nearly every offer of equipment or expertise from a foreign government since the April 20 oil rig explosion would require the U.S. to reimburse that country.
The offers reveal a hard truth about the United States’ international friendships: With the U.S. widely regarded as the world’s wealthiest nation, there is a double standard regarding foreign aid after a crisis, especially with offers from relatively poor countries.
U.S. disaster aid is almost always free of charge; other nations expect the U.S. to pay for help.
“These offers are not typically offers of aid,” said Lt. Erik Halvorson, a Coast Guard spokesman. “Normally, they are offers to sell resources to BP or the U.S. government.”
[snip]
The offers include:
_Britain, America’s closest ally and headquarters to London-based BP, said it would sell chemical dispersants and containment boom for use cleaning up the spill. London’s mayor, Boris Johnson, has previously complained about what he called “buck-passing and name-calling” in the U.S. against BP.
_Russia, which received $70.5 million in U.S. aid last year and $78 million in 2008, said it could send boom, oil containers and ships if the U.S. paid for them.
_China offered containment boom for a price. When a major earthquake struck in northwest China in April, the U.S. quickly gave $100,000 for relief supplies, and after another major earthquake in southwestern China in 2008, the U.S. donated $500,000 through the U.S. embassy in Beijing to the Red Cross to buy and deliver emergency supplies there. Congressional researchers estimate the U.S. spends roughly $30 million on foreign aid to China each year, including educational exchanges and health programs.
_Israel, which receives roughly $3 billion in U.S. military aid and other assistance, also said it would send containment boom, if the U.S. paid for it.
_France offered to send chemical dispersants and equipment to clean oil off birds but only for a price.
_Kenya, which received more than $24 million in U.S. aid last year and $11 million in 2008 for humanitarian aid, offered to send fire boom but only if the Obama administration paid.
_Vietnam offered a ship with oil-collecting sweep arms if the U.S. paid for it. The U.S. spent $102 million in all types of aid to Vietnam in 2008. When Typhoon Ketsana hit that country last fall, affecting 3 million people, the U.S. spent $100,000 on relief operations.
_Romania made a “general offer of support” but asked the U.S. government for payment. After heavy rains sent in July 2008 sent four major rivers over their banks and killed five people, the U.S. gave $50,000 for emergency supplies.
_Croatia offered to send technical experts and plans, for a price. The U.S. gave Croatia $50,000 to buy local firefighting equipment in 2007 when more than 800 wildfires broke out during an unusually hot and dry summer.
going out to jersey diner tonight with extended family. I will be ordering a martini with my pancakes. Need to get a little drunk today.
31. Martinis…..I suggest martinis. I hear you with those friends. I’m starting to think that NJ is more than just a state, its a cult.
“A fat, bloated nothingness sprinkled with an Olive Garden lifestyle. ”
its true and 10 years ago it WASN’T true. IMO NJ is turning into an expensive midwest.
Anyone familiar with, or living in the Flemington area?
Have driven through a handful of times but not familiar with the local doin’s.
Schools look decent. Not sure if there is much of a downtown – looks like a totally car-based lifestyle.
What’s the relationship between Flemington and Raritan Township? (Realtor.com considers them interchangeable.)
31, fund the freaking schools just figure out how to do it in another way. Other states do.
meter. Flemington, its rednecky imo. But also some very pretty roads/drives. Good farmers markets. Its has a certain charm here and there.
Lawn is done and the garage is painted. Oh, and one other thing: I saw the salaries of the Clifton Police Dept. the other day. OMG, six digit salaries for a majority of the force. Three decades of total theft of the Socialist State of New Jersey. The party’s over. No retirement for you, no pension for you, pay for your medical and fund your own investment. Municipal workers, Teachers, and Public employees will now join the private sector. Welcome aboard. Go ahead, strike and protest, no one is gonna f*cking listen to you anyway. You’ll just get shoved aside and stepped on. And to add insult to injury, you’ll now have to figure out ways to keep yourself current in order to keep a job. No 4% raises, no overtime, no nothing. Maybe you should take a ride down the shore in your overpaid car and drop $300 to sit in traffic and wait 2 hours for a table while you sit in your damp, sand encrusted, irritating bathing suit for a pound of Ronzoni in Ragu at $18.99 a head.
Thanks, Barbara. Seems more wooded than what I’m used to, but not a bad thing. Would prefer to have a walkable main street but seems near impossible to find if not in a train town. Definitely not into the redneck vibe.
Gary, #39… apples to apples comparison… they cannot get bonuses, no expense accounts, no stock options, nothing. They cannot easily jump to another competitor easily…
A lot of public employees these days have a straight-forward 401k plan — X% minimum from employee and a fixed Y% from employer. No bonuses, no overtime, a lot of restrictions on what one can do.
On the other hand, a contractor, doing the same stuff, can make several times more money, with all the “small business tax benefits”, outsource work and pocket the difference.
There are wildly overpaid idiots in all sectors, but criticizing jobs and pensions for cops as “socialist” is a stretch. Do we rather want Blackwater running our police departments too?
S
Kind of dumb really when the socialist jargon is tossed about. I’ve learned to ignore it as nearly 99% of the population is functionally retarded. I think god for good genes and big pharma.
heh heh heh….Of course I mean “thank”…there.
Sas3,
Criticizing the whole public sector, not cops.
On the other hand, a contractor, doing the same stuff, can make several times more money…
What are you f*cking kidding me?
they cannot get bonuses, no expense accounts, no stock options, nothing. They cannot easily jump to another competitor easily…
Gee, sounds like the private sector. Bullsh1t, gimme a f*cking break, ok? I worked for a municipality for 5 years. My work day consisted of reading a newspaper 5 of the 7 hour work day. The other hour was for lunch. I become so atrophic after year four, I was ready to commit suicide. Like I said, the party is over.
What you do during work hours is always your choice Gary, mindless twit. Sucks to be you, right? Now get back to your rants about how you hate cape cods.
I’m one check away from paying off my house if I choose. Not too bad for a mindless twit. And I don’t hate cape cods, only the POS ones with a scent of cabbage and Budweiser going for 5 and change.
NJAR hasn’t posted their 2010 Q1 yet. Supposed to be ~6 wks after end of qtr. They’re over a month late.. what’s up with that??
http://www.njar.com/research_statistics/housing.html
Gary #44…
I know someone currently working in software QA in a major “TARP bank” that is complaining about how there is no work, but has to “clock in”, and cannot telecommute. Basically has to stay at the desk when the beancounting police comes. My suggestion was to read up books on newer technologies or anything that can be claimed as related to the work (however weird the stretch might be).
Like I said, there will always be bad examples for every system. In a corporate setting, the boss may have more power over firing/promotions, and in the government sector it is not the case.
I know of ludicrous examples of software consultants & employees at AT&T and Lucent that would work far less than your municipality work. They were never demonized, and some got laid off with a fat severance package and got re-hired right away as contractors at close to double the salary [translates to more than 50% pay hike — and close to 100% after an S-Corp or an LLC “small business” was set up].
Then there was Carly Fiorina too.
I think by using a very broad brush for “employees in a socialist state”, you are basically dehumanizing a very large group of people, including many of your former colleagues. May reflect more badly on you than you think.
Also, do any of the legal folks on here know whether one could purchase an qualified existing home, move in, rip it down in a year, rebuild, move back in and still meet the 36 mo residence req’t? Realtor says “sure, why not!” Ugh.
http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/bills/BillView.asp
Bills 2010-2011
“A1678 Establishes a New Jersey Homebuyer Tax Credit Program under the New Jersey gross income tax for home purchases during a qualified period.”
Gary, you made me laugh hard today!!! You are very funny. I totally agree, living in Sussex county where the septics are clogged and the living easy.
The way I look at it is, I have lived with both evils, hillbillies with clogged septics in Sussex or in Bergen prozac drivers in the twilight zone with defective driving genes.
ohh dont forgot those high taxes in Bergen I had for lightening detetors and astro turf!!! All for little scmutzi!!!
essex has a soft skin, it hurts him when the punches hit close to home
I’ll tell you what; why doesn’t everyone come to the next GTG. I’ll buy the first round and I’ll tell you all about the family business we had for years as well as my Dad’s experience as a city Firefighter for 28 years and why he REALLY retired, the spouse’s experience as a teacher, both public and private and why I’ve been around the block 476 times. We could go on and on here so, why not just discuss it over a drink.
And Marilyn, I’m glad I made you laugh! Scmutzi… I like that!
40 – About Flemington and Raritan Twp.- we almost settled there years ago but I got scared off by the fact that there is no easy commute to any center of employment. It’s too far from Morristown and too far from Princeton (the areas where my spouse and I could find alternate jobs if we had too). I like the rural aspect of Hunterdon County, but prefer to be closer in Somerset County, Mercer, or Morris County. I think the schools are pretty good. In the past you could get a pretty good bang for your buck there but I am not sure if that is still true.
I found this from 2008, and it reminded me of what we were saying about PPACA and the effect it would have on service:
“Aug 18, 2008 — Doctors roll out red carpet for cash customers
Doctors are being squeezed between what they’re paid from insurers and what they’re paid from Medicare/Medicaid. The reality is that doctors often make no money or even lose money when they see you. So they’re shifting their practices to reflect the free market.
For example, take the field of dermatology. If you have a suspicious mole, you may wait months for an appointment if you’re an insurance customer. But if you’re willing to pay cash for cosmetic dermatology, you can usually be seen in 24-48 hours.
The New York Times reports that dermatologists and laser-eye surgeons are even building separate waiting rooms for cash customers. They’re rolling out the red carpet with fancy furniture, free lattes and more. Contrast that with the ratty furniture and long-expired magazines that fill traditional waiting rooms for insured customers. . . .”
I see this trend either reviving or deepening. . .
55.The New York Times reports that dermatologists and laser-eye surgeons are even building separate waiting rooms for cash customers. They’re rolling out the red carpet with fancy furniture, free lattes and more. Contrast that with the ratty furniture and long-expired magazines that fill traditional waiting rooms for insured customers. . . .”
I’d be willing to pay cash to a doctor who promises not to mention Cholesterol.
“The reality is that doctors often make no money or even lose money when they see you.”
Where does my $800/mo medical insurance money go? If the insurers are eating up the money, then we should push for a single-payer system.
If docs don’t make money at all, and are starving, we should have a NHS like in England that assures docs of a baseline salary — and fancy docs can have go private.
If the docs are paying from their own pockets for treating patients (like some school teachers do with classroom supplies), then they are saints. But, there are no saints, so…
S
#36, 38, 40, 54
Flemington is a borough completely surrounded by Raritan Township.
There is a small main street called, you guessed it, Main Street. If you’re driving through on 202 and 31, you missed it. Not really a downtown, but there some small shops and restaurants.
A block off Main down Church Street brings you to Turntable Junction, which is an old, kind of village-like collection of shops and little eateries. Just past there is Liberty Village, which has outlet stores in an outdoor mall kind of set up.
So I suppose one could walk that route for a sort of walkable main street, but probably not what you’re looking for.
The commute from Flemington is rough because both of the main highways (202 and 31) have too many lights, too much traffic and too many Pennsylvanians. The rush hour drives to Morristown and Princeton are about 40 minutes, West Windsor is about 50.
The areas adjacent to Flemington tend to be pretty rural, especially to the west. Housing is considerably cheaper than Northeast NJ but still pretty bubblicious at the present, IMHO.
School are good but not great.
I’ve lived within 10 miles of Flemington for the past 20 years.
School = Schools
And no, I didn’t go to school in Flemington.
Barbara says:
June 19, 2010 at 1:10 pm
its true and 10 years ago it WASN’T true. IMO SOUTH NJ is turning into an expensive midwest with urine.
I’ll tell you what; why doesn’t everyone come to the next GTG.
This needs to be a higher priority
Come on Grim, when is the GTG gonna happen. I need to spend some of my DP on Al K.
6/18
http://money.cnn.com/2010/06/18/news/economy/state_employees_layoffs/index.htm
“Slashing public payrolls hurts the greater economy, as well, experts said. Not only does it increase unemployment, but it further drains the state of personal income taxes…”
Forget finance, forget economics, how about simple arithmetic?
(making up numbers) If the govt doesn’t have to pay them 50,000… the fact that they lose their 2,000 state income tax is NET POSITIVE, I dk by some 48,000
(I know unemployment, I know sales tax, I could elaborate with a chart, graph, and easel… but you get my point)
[57] sas3
“Where does my $800/mo medical insurance money go? If the insurers are eating up the money, then we should push for a single-payer system.”
For a big chunk of that, you are trading private employees for public. No realistic savings, and probably more expensive. Where you get savings is that you no longer have the insurer meeting a capital requirement, holding assets in reserve to satisfy state regulations. Also, no profit margins, which aren’t huge, but it is real money.
“If docs don’t make money at all, and are starving, we should have a NHS like in England that assures docs of a baseline salary — and fancy docs can have go private.”
Essentially, you wind up nationalizing the entire healthcare delivery system, and turn most docs into government employees. Aside from the optics of socialized medicine (to go along with socialized banking, auto, student lending, and, coming soon, energy), you have the docs who may not want to go along. You also have enough wealthy for insurers to offer private plans, outside of ERISA, in states that don’t require community rating. Thus, you create a two-tier system where the wealthy get the better treatment options, and the poor don’t.
Finally, under a single payer system, do you require herculean efforts for every patient? Right now, private insurers decide what to cover and how much. Does that go away, or does the government take over that role? This, incidentally, is where the “death panel” concept arises.
We can have single payer. Nothing in the constitution prohibits it. But it will cause an intergenerational conflict, and cause an entire generation to have to deal with the effects of a massive restructuring of a large portion of our economy from more or less free market to centrally planned state system, which will have no private players except pharma and devices, and even they won’t truly be free market since by law they will have only one customer who can order them to set prices.
And since we are killing off capitalism, why stop there? Isn’t housing, energy, and food just as important?
Thanks for the feedback on Flemington, Barbara, HWhine & WW4Beer.
(57)
We can have single payer. Nothing in the constitution prohibits it
The tenth amendment prohibits it.
“Spring Street”
how about them furs over on Spring Street?
those women look like god dam davey crocket walking out of that joint.
SAS
talking about Flemington.
SAS
I can fix this healthcare stuff no problem.
1) If you ever get sick, get the hell out of the hospital, the mistakes and the Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) will get you one way or another the longer you stay. so get out.
2) quit eating garbage fillers and calling it food.
SAS
well..i tried telling a story.
looks like the east germans are back on the boards.
is that you Erich Honecker?
SAS
Nom, with rising health care costs, short of everyone getting more tests and treatments (very plausible), where is the money is going? Is the money simply supporting a lot of paper pushers? I don’t buy the starving doctor explanation.
Regarding the fear of a two-tier system (govt NHS type vs cash payments), there is already a two-tier (even multi-tier) system. One’s fate depends quite a bit on one’s insurance plan, very strongly correlated with income [except that even low-paid government employees have better health care than some many middle class folks working for a body shop].
Our renovation now complete our town in South Jersey is currently busy reassessing taxes for the entire town. My brother walked through with the guy last week from the private company that is doing the assessments. It will be interesting to see how this turns out. I’m hopeful we can stay under $10,000. The funny thing is the house was really not functional prior to the renovation due to the kitchen and a bathroom toilet that backed up due to a clogged pipe going to the street. Our house is paid-off, and I really don’t see how people can afford a mortgage, property taxes, plus homeowners insurance.
Clot, are you working for the gov now?
It’s the same old story, but interesting that NYT finally criticizing Fan and Fred and opposed to kissing their a&&.
Cost of Seizing Fannie and Freddie Surges for Taxpayers
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/20/business/20foreclose.html?hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1277031705-Ic9lY398mGZvj+fgU/jYKQ
64. nationalize the banks. Yes.
63- joyce. Maybe it’s a net positive, but maybe by not so much. UI pays a maximum in NJ now of $625/week plus the Feds have been kicking in another $25/week. This will continue unless Congress fails to approve all the extended tiers for UI. If the unemployed can’t pay their mortgages, which does end up happening sometimes especially if their UI runs out, I fail to see how this is a net positive for them and for their towns. To me, it seems cutting jobs is a bad idea, but cutting back on the generous benefits is the best way to go.
Corporate Greed is Killing the Country
EVANSVILLE, Ind. — Having seen her father make a solid living at the Whirlpool refrigerator factory, Natalie Ford was enthusiastic about landing a job there and was happy years later when her 20-year-old son also went to work there.
Enlarge This Image
Carl Kiilsgaard for The New York Times
The Whirlpool plant in Evansville, Ind., is closing this week after more than 50 years.
Enlarge This Image
Carl Kiilsgaard for The New York Times
“We were considered the refrigerator capital of the world,” said Randall Reynolds, who was a forklift driver.
But that family tradition will soon end because Whirlpool plans to close the plant on Friday and move the operation to Mexico, eliminating 1,100 jobs here. Many in this city in southern Indiana are seething and sad — sad about losing what was long the city’s economic centerpiece and a ticket to the middle class for one generation after another.
“This is all about corporate greed,” said Ms. Ford, who took a job at Whirlpool 19 years ago. “It’s devastating to our family and to everyone in the plant. I wonder where we’ll be two years or four years from now. There aren’t any jobs here. How is this community going to survive?”
At a time when the nation’s economy is struggling to gain momentum, Whirlpool’s decision is an unwelcome step backward. It continues a trend in which the nation has lost nearly six million factory jobs over the past dozen years, representing one in three manufacturing jobs.
Connie Brasel, who earned $18.44 an hour making thermal liners for the refrigerators, sees Whirlpool’s move as a betrayal not just of the workers but also of the United States.
“This country made Whirlpool what it is,” she said. “They didn’t get world-class quality because they had the best managers. They got world-class quality because of the U.S. and because of their workers. And now they want to pack up and move to Mexico. I find it offensive.”
Whirlpool has operated the plant since 1956, and at the factory’s peak in 1973 it employed nearly 10,000 workers.
Ms. Brasel was hired 17 years ago, after holding a string of minimum-wage jobs. “I felt good about Whirlpool,” she said. “I was becoming part of something bigger than me. Whirlpool was the best thing that ever happened to me.”
When she learned of the closing, she said, “I cried like a baby.”
To vent their anger, the workers’ union, the International Union of Electrical Workers, put up a billboard in Whirlpool’s headquarters city, Benton Harbor, Mich., that says “Shame on Whirlpool for building a new plant in Mexico to take good-paying manufacturing jobs out of the U.S. during our nation’s tough economic times.”
Whirlpool officials defend the move, saying the factory, which makes refrigerators with the freezer on top, was undercut by high costs and underused capacity.
Jody Lau, a Whirlpool spokeswoman, said that the plant was “uncompetitive from a cost standpoint” and that Whirlpool was always looking “for ways to improve its operating efficiencies to help it stay competitive.”
“Aggressive actions by global competitors,” she said, “forces the business to consolidate production in a facility where we can deliver the product at the best cost,” referring to the factory in Mexico.
Whirlpool is not deserting the nation, Ms. Lau said, noting that 20,000 of its 67,000 employees worldwide are still in the United States, including 300 research and development jobs that will remain in Evansville.
The closing leaves not just Ms. Ford and her son without a job, but also her husband, a worker in the metal-pressing shop.
“My mom and dad told me that when they were young, there were jobs everywhere,” she said. “They said we had Whirlpool, Bristol-Myers, Mead Johnson, Windsor Plastics, Guardian Automotive, Zenith. Now if you want to find a job, there’s nothing around.”
At 43, Ms. Ford has little interest in returning to school. But if she cannot find a job, she will rethink that reluctance. Maybe she will become a physical therapist, she said.
“My first thought is to find work, but everything seems to be going overseas,” she said. “If I go to school, it will be for something in the medical field because they’re not going to ship that offshore, so I’d never have to go through this again.”
Her laid-off son is moving in with her. “I can’t turn my kids away,” she said. “I don’t know how he’ll survive.”
Frank Rich—————–Enough already! His energy would be far better spent calling out in no uncertain terms what the other party’s “ideas and approaches” are. The more the Fox-Palin right has strengthened its hold on the G.O.P. during primary season, the sharper and more risky its ideology has become.
When Rand Paul defended BP against Salazar’s (empty) threat to keep a boot on the company’s neck, he was not speaking as some oddball libertarian outlier. His views are mainstream in his conservative cohort. Traditional Republican calls for limited government have given way to radical cries for abolishing many of modern government’s essential tasks. Paul has called for the elimination of the Department of Education, the Federal Reserve and the Americans with Disabilities Act. The newest G.O.P. star — Sharron Angle, the victor in this month’s Republican senatorial primary in Nevada — has also marked the Energy Department, the Environmental Protection Agency, the Department of Veterans Affairs, Social Security and Medicare for either demolition or privatization.
Pertinently enough, Angle has also called for processing highly radioactive nuclear waste at Nevada’s Yucca Mountain. If Americans abhor poorly regulated deepwater oil drilling, wait until they get a load of nuclear waste on land with no regulatory agency in charge at all. The choice between inept government and no government is no choice at all, of course. But there would be a clear alternative if the president could persuade the country that Washington, or at least its executive branch, can be reformed — a process that demands him to own up fully to his own mistakes and decisively correct them.
While the greatest environmental disaster in our history is a trying juncture for Obama, it also provides him with a nearly unparalleled opening to make his and government’s case. The spill’s sole positive benefit has been to unambiguously expose the hard right, for all its populist pandering to the Tea Partiers, as a stalking horse for its most rapacious corporate patrons. If this president can speak lucidly of race to America, he can certainly explain how the antigovernment crusaders are often the paid toadies of bad actors like BP. Such big corporations are only too glad to replace big government with governance of their own, by their own, and for their own profit — while the “small people” are left to eat cake at their tea parties.
When Joe Barton, the ranking Republican on the House Energy and Commerce Committee, revived Rand Paul’s defense of BP last week by apologizing on camera to Hayward for the “tragedy” of the White House’s “$20 billion shakedown,” the G.O.P. establishment had to shut him down because he was revealing the party’s true loyalties, not because it disagreed with him. Barton was merely echoing Michele Bachmann, who labeled the $20 billion for gulf victims a “redistribution-of-wealth fund,” and the 100-plus other House members whose Republican Study Committee had labeled the $20 billion a “Chicago-style shakedown” only a day before Barton did.
These tribunes of the antigovernment right and their Tea Party auxiliaries are clamoring for a new revolution to “take back America” — after which, we now can see, they would hand over America to the likes of BP. Let Deepwater Horizon be ground zero for a 9/11 showdown over the role of government. There couldn’t be a riper moment for Obama, as a man once said, to bring it on.
for the ADHD here…Michele Bachmann, who labeled the $20 billion for gulf victims a “redistribution-of-wealth fund,” and the 100-plus other House members whose Republican Study Committee had labeled the $20 billion a “Chicago-style shakedown” only a day before Barton did.
For every example of corporate greed, I’m sure we can muster up an example of public sector greed.
So how about we just settle on “greed” as a factor killing America.
I am getting sick and tired of watching the country circle the drain. Meanwhile…let’s find some public employees to blame. Grim, you don’t want me at the next GTG — trust me — I am not a ‘nice guy’.
Blame the Unions? Unions essentially enabled this country to actually have a middle class.
Left to their own devices corporations would effectively enslave most non-management workers. Wanna live in a box outside of the factory….move with the Whirlpool plant to Mexico. Hey, it’s a free country.
Not sure how Evansville Indiana can compete with the likes of LG and Samsung, with equally high quality construction, and a significantly lower employee cost
We aren’t the only country in the world making appliances anymore, the post WW2 industrial/manufacturing honeymoon is gone. The only reason we had any manufacturing in the US was because the manufacturing capacity of the rest of the world was essentially turned to rubble in WW2. We are kidding ourselves if we think that we were the manufacturing center of the world, because we made great products. Ours were the only factories still standing.
Americans don’t care about buying American, and supporting American businesses or US Made products.
Case in point, Walmart.
Wake me up when America cares about America.
Fair enough. Then let’s don our Walmart smocks and help sell some foreign goods! Top sales person today gets a certificate for dinner at Olive Garden!
Getting ready to hit the road on the bike. Lemme know if you wanna ride sometime. I’m back after a long layoff….ballooning weight…and endless abuse of the lungs.
*rant off*
Absolutely up for a ride, not putting in nearly enough miles lately (where lately = last 2 years).
If anyone is looking for good tomatoes, we’ve got a bumper crop this year. 17 heirloom varieties, all sourced from Rutgers coop. All organic (crap and compost), no pesticides, etc. Still early, but it is clear that consuming all of this won’t be possible without hating tomato come fall.
Would love to trade produce if you’ve got something, since the garden is almost 100% tomato this year.
…and I remember when Walmart’s central marketing point was selling American made goods whenever possible. This wasn’t really all that long ago, maybe 15 years.
public sector greed: getting paid for not working + free car
http://www.app.com/article/20100617/NEWS/6170341/Matawan-police-chief-suspended-with-pay
“Whirlpool plans to close the plant on Friday and move the operation to Mexico”
How about moving to Mexico to keep your job? what a concept.
Plus Mexico has 5% unemployment rate = plenty of jobs.
Need a job?? Move to Brazil. Brazil’s unemployment rate fell to 7.3 percent in April, from 7.6 percent in March
How about moving to Mexico to keep your job?
Illegals aren’t welcome in Mexico.
Essex = pro·le·tar·i·at
#76
Tough break that your factory is moving overseas, but you really need a reality check.
At 43, Ms. Ford has little interest in returning to school. But if she cannot find a job, she will rethink that reluctance. Maybe she will become a physical therapist, she said.
“My first thought is to find work, but everything seems to be going overseas,” she said. “If I go to school, it will be for something in the medical field because they’re not going to ship that offshore, so I’d never have to go through this again.”
LMAO. Assuming she can get accepted into a school somewhere (big assumption), a license to practice Physical Therapy requires a 6+ year commitment of school and internships. How is she going to survive with huge bills for tuition, books and fees with no income?
When she graduates deep in debt as a 50 year-old newbie, she will face tough competition from 25 year-old PTs from overseas on H1B visas who are prepared to work for peanuts to stay in the USA.
All in an environment where healthcare professionals have seen no real income growth over the last decade and declining prospects going forward.
Lotsa luck with that plan.
79.grim says:
June 20, 2010 at 7:53 am
For every example of corporate greed, I’m sure we can muster up an example of public sector greed.
So how about we just settle on “greed” as a factor killing America
You hit the nail on the head. When will people wake up to the fact that neither major party represents them or believes in America. What difference if you lose your job to one shipped to Mexico or a Mexican shipped illegally (wink, wink) here.
grim [79],
Do you mean like, the publicly financed lobby for the NJ school board that’s spending millions to renovate its Trenton headquarters, even as local districts face massive state aid cuts, defeated budgets and pending teacher layoffs? It’s for the children, ya know?
Grim,
Not true. Some Americans still care about America and I’m one of them. A few years ago we purchased new bedroom furniture from Huffmann Koos. I asked the salesman where the furniture was made to which North Carolina was the reply. I then told him in no uncertain terms that if it wasn’t made in the US, I’d return it immediately. Sure enough, when the furniture arrived it had a big “Made in China” stamp on the back and it wasn’t nearly as well made as the floor sample we looked at. Promptly called him up and made him send someone out to pick it up. He tried to convince me it was okay and that “most case goods are now made in China, but they’re finished in the US”, but I stuck to my guns and he eventually agreed to the return. He then tried to give me a store credit to pick something else out. Eventually, we received the full refund but it took some arm twisting on my part. We then found some truly great furniture made in Maine (Moosehead) and it was actually around the same price as the crappy HK stuff. Also, all wood and very well made. Sadly, Moosehead went out of business a few years back citing competition from China. Figures….
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not averse to buying products made elsewhere, but there are certain things we “should” be able to produce here. I don’t buy the “its too expensive here” argument either. Plenty of foreign owned companies (Honda, Subaru, BMW, Mercedes) building great products right here in the USA.
Also, I suspect as oil becomes more and more expensive, shipping heavy items (cars, appliances, furniture, etc) will become so cost prohibitive it will cancel out the labor savings. We can only hope as I’m a firm believer that we need a strong manufacturing base in this country in order to thrive, not just survive.
Happy Father’s Day to All.
Was down in New Orleans all last week. Good to be back from the 105-110 degree heat indexes. Good food, good times. The people there are all sorts of pissed re this oil spill.
Now on the 6th or 7th golf outing since the Gulf Disaster began…..
“Gulf residents outraged by BP CEO’s yacht outing”
apnews.myway.com/article/20100619/D9GEI7UG0.html
“Obama hits golf course with Biden on another hot, humid weekend”
thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/104313-obama-hits-golf-course-with-biden-on-another-hot-humid-weekend
Local Essex County here. I read a website now and then as they update Montclair. THey don’t take the entire county into consideration, and only single family homes, but Montclair has not faired the way that this article suggests. Overall, article is right, but areas like Montclair are doing ok..not great, but not entirely bad. I’m not a real estate junkie, but any thoughts?
http://www.newjerseyrealestateguys.com/nj-suburbs/montclair-real-estate-review/
Grim 83
it’s a catch 22. American income has been about flat for the last 20 years. Assuming people had consistently bought American for that period of time you would have probably seen deflationary effects as a result.
The GOV and CORPs have been yelling at the American population to buy now and buy often, take all the cheap credit you can get.
While there are no innocent parties in this mess we have clearly seen a substantial failure of government to act in the peoples interest.
Happy fathers day to all the dads
Headline of the weekend:
Life in New Jersey Now More Dissatisfying Than Ever
http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2010/06/17/life-in-new-jersey-now-more-dissatisfying-than-ever/
Very sad about Whirlpool. The good life for average Americans is disappearing before our eyes.
With the number of jobs shrinking while our population quickly increases, we seem to be headed toward permanent economic and social crisis.
I believe the current Census Bureau prediction is for another 100 million people around 2050. Most of the increase will be due to immigrants and their descendants. I suspect we’ll go on like we are, letting too many people in like fools, until one day we’ll wake up and more or less shut the door against all newcomers, which will be a shame.
Where’s the water, energy, money for healthcare and education, etc. for all these extra people going to come from? I’ve been asking people this for at least five years now and never get an answer.
What a terrible mess we’re creating for our own descendants.
Ms. Ford is an ignorant and lazy idiot. I feel bad for her, but she has many more options than she is willing to consider. Basically she is being punished for linear thinking…..fair punsishment…..
Essex says:
June 20, 2010 at 7:24 am
Corporate Greed is Killing the Country
EVANSVILLE, Ind. — Having seen her father make a solid living at the Whirlpool refrigerator factory, Natalie Ford was enthusiastic about landing a job there and was happy years later when her 20-year-old son also went to work there.
grim says:
June 20, 2010 at 8:16 am
If anyone is looking for good tomatoes, we’ve got a bumper crop this year. 17 heirloom varieties, all sourced from Rutgers coop.
BUSINESS
JUNE 17, 2010
Dying on the Vine: Tomato Prices
Tomatoes Go From Shortage to Glut in a Matter of Weeks
By LIAM PLEVEN And CAROLYN CUI
Mimi Ritzen Crawford for The Wall Street Journal
Tomatoes abound at a street vendor’s stand in New York City.
In California, harvest time is arriving just as tomato growers in other parts of the U.S. are reeling from a sudden supply glut that is pushing the price for fresh tomatoes sharply lower. Florida farmers who fetched more than $30 a few months ago for a 25-pound box of round, fresh field-grown tomatoes, also known as slicer tomatoes, are now getting $5 or less.
The abundant crop is rooted in last winter’s cold weather in Florida, which delayed the development of tomato plants. The overdue harvest hit the market in May just as DiMare Co., where Mr. Dolan oversees California field operations, was picking tomatoes near Palm Springs.
Jeff Dolan, field operations manager for DiMare Co. in California, looks for maturing Roma tomatoes on a recent day. Of the quick turn in the market, Mr. Dolan says ‘the train wreck was apparent for quite a while.’
“Prices dropped like a rock” after the harvest began, he says. As a result, at least 40% of the revenue that DiMare hoped to get from that part of California could vanish.
Now the impact is rippling across the country as the growing season moved to other regions, including Mr. Dolan’s tomatoes in the San Joaquin Valley.
The tomato surplus also means that food banks are getting a mountain of the fruit, often cooked as a vegetable. Fast-food chains are reversing tomato-by-request rationing policies imposed during the shortage earlier this year. And supermarkets are pushing piles of discounted tomatoes at salad, spaghetti and gazpacho lovers.
Publix Super Markets Inc., a Lakeland, Fla., chain with 1,018 stores in five states, cut its price on fresh tomatoes to 99 cents a pound—a discount of 50 cents—through the end of Wednesday.
Del Mar Farms, of Westley, Calif., has agreed to donate 150,000 pounds of Roma tomatoes for a Reno, Nev., version of Spain’s La Tomatina festival, where revelers have a massive tomato fight. “When there’s an oversupply, it’s a lot easier to donate,” says Brian Wright, the farm’s director of sales and marketing.
“I guess we caught a little bit of lucky break with the U.S. surplus of tomatoes,” says Jeff Siri, organizer of the Aug. 29 event, expected to attract as many as 10,000 tomato tossers at $10 a person. All proceeds will go to the American Cancer Society.
.The U.S. Agriculture Department estimates that wholesale tomato prices fell to 25 cents a pound in June, down 78% since March. The current price is “the lowest number that I can remember seeing,” says Gary Lucier, an agricultural economist and tomato expert at the USDA.
Worried about the impact of the plunge on farmers, the USDA is buying $6 million of tomatoes and distributing them to food banks. Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack said the purchase is designed to give Florida farmers “some relief.”
The fresh-tomato market is different from the packaged-tomato business, where H.J. Heinz Co. and other large companies use long-term contracts to buy at a fixed price through established relationships with growers, says Eric Katzman, an analyst at Deutsche Bank.
Still, fresh tomatoes sold to restaurants and supermarkets are an important part of the overall market. The crop is highly perishable and generally needs to be sold less than two weeks after harvest.
January’s freeze in Florida destroyed about two-thirds of the tomato crop in one major growing region, according to the USDA, citing industry estimates. As supplies withered, prices spiked, and some of the increase was passed on to consumers. In the first quarter, U.S. average retail tomato prices rose 24% to $2 a pound.
Florida farmers had difficulty taking advantage of the jump because cooler weather persisted after the freeze. Tomatoes planted after the thaw were slow to develop, so supplies remained scarce, prices stayed high and sales suffered.
Some fast-food restaurants told customers they had to ask for a tomato slice on burgers and other sandwiches. “The price wasn’t the issue,” says Denny Lynch, a spokesman for Wendy’s International Inc., which operates about 6,000 restaurants in the U.S. “You couldn’t get them,” and those that were available often were poor in quality. The company recently abandoned the policy.
In May, the shortage turned into a glut as delayed tomato plants reached maturity and others ripened on schedule. “Basically, eight to nine weeks of plantings came on [to the market] in a four-week period,” says Bob Spencer, co-owner of West Coast Tomato in Palmetto, Fla., which farms 4,000 acres around the state.
Tomato prices fell from $32 for a 25-pound box in late March to $22 by late April-and to $8 by mid-May, according to Agriculture Department data.
“We’ve probably lost $10 million this winter,” says Batista Madonia Sr., chief executive of East Coast Growers & Packers in Mulberry, Fla., which farms about 3,000 acres. “We’ve had a rough year. We’ll survive.”
The losses are rippling through Florida’s economy. “You just cut back on capital expenditures, and you really watch how many employees you have,” Mr. Spencer says.
California growers could see the glut coming, but there was little they could do. Tomatoes need to be planted several weeks ahead of time, and harvested when they are ready. “The train wreck was apparent for quite a while,” DiMare’s Mr. Dolan says.
It isn’t clear how much financial damage California growers will have to endure. Because Florida is wrapping up its harvest, the oversupply mightn’t last for long, especially if consumers respond to low prices by eating more tomatoes.
The Florida Tomato Committee, a Maitland, Fla., group that promotes tomatoes grown in the state, is trying to “inspire people to cook with Florida’s tomatoes,” says Samantha Winters, director of education and promotion. This year’s tomato-recipe contest winners were “tomato tartare” and “tomato sorbet,” though the results haven’t been announced yet.
“We just want people to get creative with it,” she says.
Happy Fathers Day to all the Dads out there.
For all the gun lovers out there heres my gift to myself.
http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dkimber%2Bcompact%2B45%26ei%3DUTF-8%26fr%3Dyfp-t-701&w=550&h=437&imgurl=www.slicky.net%2Fmisc%2FKimber-UltraCarryII.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.need2speed.com%2Fvb_forums%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D64789%26goto%3Dnewpost&size=32k&name=Kimber+UltraCarr…&p=kimber+compact+45&oid=f0ccde7376a8e490&fr2=&no=3&tt=138&sigr=127550jhv&sigi=11bb4l4dt&sigb=12m1qvh6g
106:
I find your harshness chilling, with your talk of “fair punishment” for “linear thinking.”
It seems to me you’re blaming average folks for being average folks. Practically speaking, what’s been the fate of middle aged and older workers with good jobs whose job category or industry has faded or disappeared in recent years? How many of these people, even after much worry, time and struggle — even after going back to school — ever make the same money again? What good paying jobs are safe against industry-wide layoffs, outsourcing and takeovers by cheap H-1B workers today?
This lady knows she’s screwed, she’s upset but she’s thinking about going back to school even though she doesn’t want to. What else do you want from her and the millions of others like her? To be happy their companies can save money by sending their jobs overseas?
If conditions in America make it impossible for our average folks to earn a living wage and pay enough taxes to cover much if not most of their use of government services, where will we be? Well, we’ll just have the poor and the rich and we won’t be a First World country for long, that’s for sure.
106- Just exactly where do you get off calling this woman lazy, ignorant, and and idiot? It takes a lot to get me mad on this blog, but you seem to have succeeded. And you know what they say about karma. Do you have any suggestions for her? Any constructive help? She doesn’t seem to be asking for a hand out to me. Okay, so she doesn’t realize right now that her plans for a new occupation probably aren’t feasible so we should condemn her?
It take a lot to reinvent yourself. I watched my dad do it. I did it. You have to have your ducks in row, enjoy the challenge of a ‘new life’ and (this one is the biggie) have good luck!!!
Luck is often overlooked in terms of the whole scenario. Granted, you can put yourself somewhere….but luck (or is it something biggggger) is key!
Just did a group ride! Made it though. Now every muscle is cramping in my body. I think I have a new bike club! Amazing.
JR (9)-
Haven’t read through the whole thread, but new houses built on old foundations do not qualify for the state’s new home warranty program.
meter (36)-
Flemington/Raritan Twp nice…but Clinton, Franklin, Union Twps (up Rt 31) are nicer.
Taxes are also hopelessly out of control in Raritan Twp/Flemington. Central is a good, not great, HS.
meter (40)-
I wish the rednecks would come back to Flemington. They are, unfortunately, being replaced by MS-13.
sx (80)-
Not anti-public employee. I’m anti the fact that few of them seem to get that their comp and bennies have to come back in line with the private sector.
We are broke and cannot afford to keep paying them as though nothing has happened to the entire economy.
sx (82)-
Left to their own devices, unions would enslave every taxpayer in the US.
“Left to their own devices corporations would effectively enslave most non-management workers.”
I find your harshness chilling, with your talk of “fair punishment” for “linear thinking.”
You obviously were not intelligent enough to get into the Univ of Chicago. You must be lazy as well.
Let me spell it out for you – markets are efficient and free trade is awesome, this woman does not know that that the job she had is more efficiently done in a third world country with slave labor wages and no environmental regulations. She should have become a knowledge worker like the rest of us on this board. Move higher up the food chain, you ignorant, lazy, “linear” SOB.
I think Unions may have outlived their usefulness. Unfortunately.
I love this country btw. But damn we are soooooo screwed.
BTW, this was a note my dad wrote in response to this story. We used to live in Evansville. Which is why the story hit home.
Yet another example of corporate USA moving jobs abroad to the determent of workers in this country. I love the sanctimonious rational defending the moves espoused by corporate spokesmen. You can thank Wee Willie Clinton and his NAFTA obsession along with the Republicans in Congress for the acceleration of jobs migration. Like those in Evansville recently finding themselves without job potential, I too vividly remember the time long-gone when there were jobs aplenty in locales throughout the USA; now there are few tickets to the middle class for the USA worker. With jobs leaving for Mexico you would think the Mexicans would stay in their own country but no, they compound our problems by illegally moving here and taking jobs from our citizens, violating our laws and forcing us to spend beaucoup dollars on education of their children and providing social services while they cling to their language and customs asking us to accommodate them and their language. And we stupidly do what they ask because our politicians are enraptured by the so-called voting power they exert.
#118:
Jamil: Fu*k off and die!
Essex,
You’re Dad’s pretty smart and obviously it runs in the family.
Thanks for passing along his excellent response.
With each passing year, the evidence that we’ve lost much more than we’ve gained over the past 50 years becomes clearer and clearer.
Yet I ask myself, how can that be, since Americans have so many more choices and face less prejudice and discrimination than previous generations?
I have so many more questions than answers today, as always.
123.
You havent seen anything yet. All by design. Sleep soundly my little lamb.
Double Feature Day: Con Air and Training Day. Good stuff. happy father’s day boys.
1) The high school in/around Flemington (Hunterdon Central) didn’t make the Newsweek “best 1600 schools” list.
2)
toomuchchange says:
June 20, 2010 at 1:20 pm
If conditions in America make it impossible for our average folks to earn a living wage and pay enough taxes to cover much if not most of their use of government services, where will we be? Well, we’ll just have the poor and the rich and we won’t be a First World country for long, that’s for sure.
Things have been going this way for awhile. Wake up, buddy. If you wipe out the middle class and have a bunch of people making little $ who rely on the Govt for help, the govt essentially owns/controls them.
scary thought, for sure. As someone who has NEVER voted Republican, it’s sad that group cant get its act together.
barbara 33
Amen, sister!
sl
Happy Father’s Day, all the Dads out there.
It’s a rough job, no doubt.
sl
msp (98)-
Nice post. Don’t be surprised when the Baltic Dry Index starts pushing down on 0 again soon.
change (109)-
Think Chifi’s harsh? Hows about we throw ourselves a bigger doozy of a war and ship off a few million of our unemployed to get turned into hash?
Doom:
Speaking of trade. China states that they will allow “flexibility” for their currency to float in the future. So they give no details just enough to tell Timmay to F*ck off at the next G20 summit.
Futures loving it, up 117. Gonna be another sky high Monday!
Wow, lotsa bile here today.
Essex, the 20B was a shakedown, just like disenfranchising the bondholders at GM and Chyrsler was. Whether you agree with the outcome or not, let’s call it what it is. BP coulda fought it, but they didn’t. All it means is that other major industries that can run afoul of this administration will price risk accordngly.
As for Evansville, jobs moving abroad, and the end of the American Century, well, that is foreseeable. I have said time and again that Obama doesn’t succeed on healthcare, cap and trade, or economic stimulus without ending foreign competition. Protectionism, pure and simple. If soft protectionism, like increasing energy costs so that the Pacific gets that much harder to cross, or picking off foreign companies while bailing out US ones doesn’t suffice (and it won’t), then Obama has to go to hard protectionism, and abrogate some trade treaties. I expect that this will take the form of tariffs on goods from countries that aren’t green or union enough.
Otherwise all of our jobs will go to China, India, and Vietnam.
Now, that will mean higher prices and less choices, and inflation, but the opposite is the direction we are taking.
Other countries are in the same boats, so I am waiting for that first precipitating move, whether it is from France, or Japan, or wherever to trigger the trade war. Rahm is waiting for it, and is ready to pounce.
The only trick now is knowing where to invest.
[122] morph
Actually, that was Jamal, Jamil’s even more evil twin.
Here’s a heartwarming story for Father’s Day (then again, my wish for today was to see 700mm or so people vaporized):
“Update: It appears the Aircraft Carrier crossing the Suez is the USS Harry Truman, under the control of Herman “Herm” Shelanski, who is quoted by aish.com as saying “I understood that the strength of the United States is directly proportional to the safety of Israel.”
Arabic newspaper Al-Quds al-Arabi reports that 12 American warships, among which one aircraft carrier, as well as one Israeli corvette, and possibly a submarine, have crossed the Suez Canal on their way to the Red Sea. Concurrently, thousands of Egyptian soldiers were deployed along the canal to protect the ships. The passage disrupted traffic into the manmade canal for the “longest time in years.” The immediate destination of the fleet is unknown. According to Global Security, two other carriers are already deployed in the region, with the CVN-73 Washington in the western Pacific as of May 26, and the CVN-69 Eisenhower supporting operation Enduring Freedom as of May 22. It is unclear at first read what the third carrier group may be, but if this news, which was also confirmed by the Jerusalem Post and Haaretz, is correct, then the Debka report about a surge in aircraft activity in the Persian Gulf is well on its way to being confirmed. There has been no update on the three Israeli nuclear-armed subs that are believed to be operating off the coast of Iran currently.”
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/12-american-warships-including-one-aircraft-carrier-and-one-israeli-corvette-cross-suez-cana
hype (131)-
Feh. China is just a second-rate USA with no sense of humor or irony.
My only fear is that we will descend below their level within 10 years.
130 –
I’m sure you’ve noticed the unemployed are already getting turned into hash right here at home in America.
Lots of those still employed but working harder, longer and with much more stress are getting turned into hash too.
Far more will emerge from the rubble of 2008-2012 with wounds and scars than without. Let us all hope and pray that this cursed period doesn’t drag on beyond 2012. I’m not sure how much more the country can take. I’m not sure I can make it past 2011, with things as they are right now.
China = 3 bn obsessive-compulsives, cramming for an exam that all of them will fail
Harsh, let me tell you about harsh.
Harsh is eating at buffets and loading your backback because you couldn’t make it three times to donate plasma and blood for twenty bucks without falling down the steps at class and then getting so dizzy you couldn’t find the building where your 8 pm calc test was being given the second week you were in college so you had to fight back from failure the rest of the term. But then, for a while, living in a place where people have have limited water and they stare when you rinse your dishes with clean water instead of leaving them soapy and they hate the wastefulness of Americans and you realize the folly of your misconceptions. True attitude adjustment.
Harsh is fighting to never be poor again but it’s real life and not Gone With the Wind and being able to afford more, but believing in change so much that you want to teach your child something different so you drive an economy car and yell to shut off the damn water and try to negotiate for bucks off at the grocery store to the point where she’s embarrassed and kids at school think she’s poor and she asks why we are poor and few will come for playdates.
Harsh is watching a lot of people driving SUVs and then blaming everybody else for the death of our environment.
Harsh is coming here to LBI for the first time in two years and sitting on the beach and being able to only think about the death that is happening at another coast and that we let it happen. Not politicians, not BP nobody.
BP didn’t kill an ocean, Barbara, we did. And only we will fix it.
Now how do I convince people like Essex and other status-bound ones to begin to conserve and make every decision based on waste or lack of waste?
@114, 115, Doom –
Thanks. High taxes is not a selling point, MS-13 notwithstanding.
change (136)-
They’re getting turned into hash slowly, not in an eyeblink.
If we conscript them to military service in 100% certain death scenarios, we don’t have to keep pumping them full of WIC coupons and food stamps. Just have wave after wave of them charge endlessly up some Persian version of Hamburger Hill, then pop a few 10-megaton airbursts all over the whole clusterfcuk…voila! 700mm dead, and we don’t even have to dig graves or buy bodybags. Plus, we wipe out a good part of the Islamic world and leave those who manage to survive with massive chromosomal damage.
We can even have Whitney Houston sing the National Anthem at the Super Bowl and give all the dead 40 seconds of silence, all at the expense of some fascist corporation.
Maybe Danica Patrick will even take her top off at the end of the moment of silence.
meter (139)-
MS-13 and spiraling taxes…perfect together!
Doom 135:
Call me crazy but couldn’t China sell dollars and tresuries to balance out their holdings? Why would the markets think this is a slam dunk for the US? My only guess is they buy Euros to increase their value? Help with trade? Who knows, just one big clusterf*ck.
Pat (138)-
Convince him that the survival of his family and way of life depends on his killing at least 200 people on behalf of each person in his immediate family.
The next war will be easier than the ones that came before, because it will be OK if a lot of those 200 people/family member that get killed are Americans.
“Now how do I convince people like Essex and other status-bound ones to begin to conserve and make every decision based on waste or lack of waste?”
hype (142)-
Simple answers to your questions:
1. China has a massive overproduction problem. The US is a giant market for their products. We have a giant imbalance of trade, so they have to use all those USDs in some productive enterprise (like buying USD and UST). If they do anything else, they kill a golden goose.
2. Europe is China’s largest export market. They buy Euros for the same reason referenced in #1.
The big tell is looking at where on the UST yield curve China is doing their buying. By and large, it is at the short end.
This is not good, BTW.
re #107- Tomato bumper crop yet it cost $2.50 for a clove of garlic.
“It’s called the American Dream cause you have to be asleep to believe it.”
George Carlin
138. Essex lives in a modest home. Drives a car that usually get 20+ mpg and 30 Hwy miles. He buys clothes on eBay for himself. Some used. He buys and sells vintage music gear to make ends meet.
Anyhow, ‘status’ seeking is the furthest from my mind.
re;#109- toomuchchange- sorry to say that ship has sailed,it’s way way too late. American manufacturers won’t be able to compete with Asia without tariffs and a trade war,and perhaps a modern version of indentured servitude like they have in China’s factory cities.
Just google Foxconn
I moved around a bit as a kid and got to know a lot of people. I can usually tell if I like someone in about 30 seconds and believe me. I do not care for too many people. I did however have a fantastic ride today with a bunch of new ‘friends’. My relationships are based not on knowing high powered people (we have a few in the family and some are incredibly tedious to spend time with) but rather common interests. My best friends are usually cyclists, artists, and musicians. My own career (my chapter II) is an arts related job.
Oh, and the BMW….perhaps not the wisest choice for long term ownership but the seats are the most comfortable (sport model) on the market. My wife borrowed it to see her dad today. It is a car enthusiast’s machine. I could also be happy with a bunch of other machines, but they have to handle corners, have great seats, and accommodate a 6’3″ 140 lb person.
Make that 240 lbs….at least until August and I will be about 220.
False Flag on the way. Chips are in place including 17 AWOL Afghani soldiers. The internet censor wont let me post the details but for those paying attention its is clearly evident.
sx (147)-
I want a ’59 sunburst Les Paul Jr. and a pre-CBS Fender Pro Reverb amp.
If I can get these, I will never leave my house again.
Can you help me?
Doom,
Big pile of Knob Creek on display at Little Brothers today.
They will often give good discounts on cases. Might be worth a phone call.
Pat
blatant human consumption is to humans as are a peaKocks feathers to a hen. Until we, as a species/society learn to demonstrate our secsual fitness on some other manner then good luck with getting any real % of the population to follow along.
In the bigger picture, the problem of consumption isn’t a problem if we kept our population small enough relative to available resources.
For every human to live approximatly similiar to European standards based on known available resources, your looking at a long term population of 1 billion or fewer humas on the planet. That would require about an 85% reduction of the human population.
Pat
note that human population growth is approximirly the same as a bacterial populations growth rate. If we continue on said course the end result is a rapid and nasty population “correction”
I sold a nice pro reverb about two months ago. 2×12 model. 40W tube amp. Made a kid in Seattle very happy.
Right now the gear market is excellent for buyers…..this one looks good:
http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-PRO-REVERB-2X12-FENDER-AMPLIFIER-/330443770336?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ceffbc9e0
That being said, I would pay about $700 tops for a seventies model. The Blackface 60’s models are pricey.
This one, Doom, looks like a nice one….not a pro though, but also easier to carry……http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-FENDER-DELUXE-REVERB-TUBE-AMPLIFIER-AMP-AB-868-/350367041305?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519380c719
Sorry…better link
http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-FENDER-DELUXE-REVERB-TUBE-AMPLIFIER-AMP-AB-868-/350367041305?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519380c719
Doom, the Deluxe Reverb is often a better amp than the Pro. Don’t sweat any risk, paypal has always been a good way to buy they will stand behind the purchases made on eBay…..50 minutes and counting on that auction…..
138. Pat
“BP didn’t kill an ocean, Barbara, we did. And only we will fix it.”
sounds wise, there’s some truth to it but….BP killed an ocean, our politicians let them do it. We are generally too busy working to pay the gvmt to make esoteric connections from us…..to the slack regulations that allowed BP to kill our ocean. But at the end of the day, BP killed our ocean.
If we are guilty of anything its our willingness to be easily distracted.
shoot the messenger?
toomuchchange says:
June 20, 2010 at 1:20 pm
106:
I find your harshness chilling, with your talk of “fair punishment” for “linear thinking.”
BTW – If Ms. Ford spends one penny at Walmart subsequent to the publishing of this article, you can add to my disposable diatribe that she should go fcuk herself……
chicagofinance says:
June 20, 2010 at 12:22 pm
Ms. Ford is an ignorant and lazy idiot. I feel bad for her, but she has many more options than she is willing to consider. Basically she is being punished for linear thinking…..fair punsishment…..
Pat, adding…I’m just not willing to let BP off the hook in the name of some needed nation wide soul searching. There’s a hard paper trail and I want to see heads roll.
babs – BP is off the hook already,cash for trash now has a new meaning,now off to the to watch my 10 mil sloop lose….
Juice, if BP is off the hook, then some politicians won’t be.
165 –
She’s lost her job and she’s supposed to prove her worthiness by engaging in a silent boycott against Walmart. I’m sure her anonymous protest would change her world for the better and really go to show … well, I don’t know but I guess you do.
If you’re not kidding, you should be.
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