New Jersey Home Price Tracker – August 2010

The New Jersey Home Price Index Tracker has been updated to include:
* June S&P Case Shiller (Aggregate, Tiered, Condo)
* Q2 FHFA Home Price Index (HPI, Purchase Only)
* Q2 NJAR Home Price Index (Statewide Median)


(click to enlarge)


(click to enlarge)


(click to enlarge)

FHFA (Formerly known as the OFHEO) Home Price Index

HPI (Includes Refis) – Peaked in Q1 2007 and is down 13.9% from peak

Purchase Only – Peaked in Q2 2006 and is down 12.9% from peak

S&P Case Shiller NY Metro Commutable Area Home Price Index

Low Tier (Under $285,121) – Peaked in October 2006 and is down 24.6% from peak

Mid Tier ($285,121 – $441,469) – Peaked in September 2006 and is down 22.5% from peak

High Tier (Over $441,469) – Peaked in June 2006 and is down 15.0% from peak

Aggregate (Overall Market) – Peaked in June 2006 and is down 20.0% from peak

Condo-Only Index – Peaked in February 2006 and is down 14.5% from peak

NJAR/NAR – Median Home Price

Median NJ Price – Peaked in Q3 2006 and is down 20.4% from peak

NY Metro Area Aggregate Year over Year Changes

Jun 09 -11.50%
Jul 09 -10.22%
Aug 09 -9.48%
Sep 09 -8.79%
Oct 09 -8.03%
Nov 09 -7.42%
Dec 09 -6.30%
Jan 10 -5.26%
Feb 10 -4.08%
Mar 10 -2.51%
Apr 10 -1.04%
May 10 -0.41%
Jun 2010 0.24%

This entry was posted in Economics, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

167 Responses to New Jersey Home Price Tracker – August 2010

  1. sas3 says:

    Beck miracle again!

  2. grim says:

    Impossible!

    No…

    Inconceivable! First Montclair, now Brigadoon!

    From Bloomberg:

    New Jersey Property Tax Cap Prompts Moody’s Bond-Rating Cut for Westfield

    Westfield, a New Jersey suburb where the median family income is more than twice the U.S. average, had its debt rating reduced by Moody’s Investors Service, which cited concerns about the town’s ability to balance its budgets.

    The community of 29,450 residents, located about 25 miles (40 kilometers) southwest of New York City, had its general- obligation bond rating cut one level to Aa2, the third-highest investment grade, from Aa1. The move affects $8.85 million of debt outstanding, Moody’s said in a statement today.

    “The town’s financial position and liquidity will remain pressured, following five consecutive operating deficits, as continued revenue weaknesses and ongoing expenditure demands challenge the town’s ability to regain structurally balanced operations,” Moody’s wrote. Josellyn Yousef, an author of the report, didn’t immediately return a telephone call.

  3. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Home Price Reports Don’t Show Declines (Yet)

    When reading Tuesday’s report on home prices from the S&P/Case-Shiller index, use caution.

    The Case-Shiller index uses data that is several months old—it’s a three month moving average, which means that Tuesday’s report shows home sales for April, May and June. That’s when the home buyer tax credits were largely still in effect.

    So it’s not surprising that Tuesday’s reading showed that home sales gained by a non-seasonally adjusted 1% in the three month period ending in June from the period ending in May.

    July’s weak sales figures—existing and new home sales were both at very low levels—means that sellers are going to be reducing prices if they want to sell homes. Real-estate agents across the country are describing a rare standoff in housing markets, where buyers and sellers aren’t seeing eye to eye on price.

    “Until recently, the sellers were looking at data from April, when there seemed to be a recovery in the works. The buyers were looking at unemployment data and general lack of consumer confidence,” says Glenn Kelman, chief executive of Redfin Corp., a Seattle-based real-estate brokerage. “Now you’re going to see the logjam break. The low sales figures are going to force sellers to make the first move.”

    Analysts have been calling for another 5-10% decline in prices this year, and markets are likely to log those drops later this year because the tax credit helped buoy prices in the spring.

  4. speedy says:

    You guy’s will love this one from redbankgreen …”.You are probably right. Every other comment has been an attack on so called greedy realtors. The bottom line is that the article is not very accurate. Homes are selling, granted not for as much as they use to. Overall the correction is good as housing was over inflated and first time homebuyers were priced out of the market. However, now is the time to buy. Prices are lower, interest rates are at all time high and indications are that prices are beginning to rise in our area. Everyone is always looking to buy at the bottom and it was probably in the winter of 2010. The only thing different is that rates have dropped another 1% making it a better time to buy based on your monthly payment. In many places it is cheaper to own than rent and with FHA loans you only need 3.5% down which can be gifted. You probably need a higher credit score to rent than to qualify for an FHA loan. FHA loans are also assumable which means those taking advantage of today’s low rates will benefit when rates are high, as they will be able to offer a mortgage at below market, which at the very least will make buyers choose their home over someone elses. Here is a NY Times article explaining the pros and cons of buying a home that came out the other day.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/28/your-money/mortgages/28money.html?_r=1 …Posted by: Rumson Realtor

  5. grim says:

    Nothing wrong with buying or owning. But nothing is wrong with renting either. Except if you are a Realtor, renting sucks for us because the commissions are smaller.

    The point is to go into the transaction educated, with eyes wide open, not blind with wallet wide open (I’m sure Rumson Realtor would prefer the latter).

    The deal either makes sense for the buyer, or it doesn’t.

    I wonder what he or she thought of the Rumson article from the NY Post:

    Town is down on its luxe

  6. gary says:

    grim/Clot/anyone:

    Went to an open house in Upper Haughtyville last weekend. It was a very nice 4bd/2bth split, great layout, presented very well, nice yard, great street, etc. Realtor sends an email that states, “We have received an offer that Seller is considering, so if you have some interest, now is the time to come forward.” My question: Was it a lowball? Is the realtor bullsh1ting? What’s your take on this?

  7. grim says:

    Sounds like the agent is shopping the offer.

    “Seller is considering” – Lower than the seller would like to accept.

    Usually, shopping calls get made out to the agent who showed the property to the client, by way of the keybox logs. I show a house this weekend, they get an offer from another party, almost certain I get a call on Monday informing me of the fact, and attempting to elicit interest by creating a sense of urgency in my client.

    Usually works, makes lowballs on newer/nicer properties very difficult.

    They don’t name names, but they’ll make it clear that the other offer isn’t everything they expected. If anyone ever had the pleasure of being informed of another offer, a day after you submitted yours, on a property that’s been sitting, this is probably how it came to be.

    I try to recommend that clients put in offers on Sunday afternoons, or Monday mornings to try to prevent this. Harder for working couples to take time off during the week to “take a second look” or really make a serious move. Couple this with a hard push to get the property either deep into Atty Review or done by the weekend. Not to say the other attorney can’t simply kill the deal in AR if a better offer comes in, but there isn’t anything you can do to prevent that.

  8. NJGator says:

    Greetings from Juneau! Our bus driver sounded a lot like Sarah Palin, and y’all should have seen the look on Captain Cheapo’s face when he was told a glacier helicopter flightseeing tour cost $250/person…priceless! Off to see the glaciers. Life is tough.

  9. Mike says:

    Westfield’s famous family slayer John List bailed out in 1971

  10. Qwerty says:

    Gary, offer what you think is fair, and tell them to “take it or leave it.”

    If they “leave it,” move on to the next shack.

    Bidding wars are for morons.

  11. gary says:

    grim, thanks for the insight!!

    Qwerty, not ready to pull the trigger but getting closer. Let the animals bleed to death first; another year away. I’m just circling looking for wounded bunny rabbits. We circled the calendar for around late 2011.

  12. grim says:

    From the Record:

    Former BCIA chairman O’Malley indicted in mortgage fraud scheme

    Ronald J. O’Malley, the principal in a Ridgewood mortgage brokerage firm and a former chairman of the Bergen County Improvement Authority, was indicted Tuesday by a federal grand jury, accused of preparing fraudulent mortgage applications.

    The 68-count indictment charges O’Malley, 47, of Upper Saddle River, and an employee of his company, Residential Mortgage Corp., of conspiring to commit wire fraud in connection with the fraudulent loan applications, which prosecutors said were prepared between 2006 and 2009.

  13. grim says:

    Oh bother, that’ll show ’em. Pay now, or pay later, who said we didn’t have a choice?

    From the Record:

    Monroe Township to pay $5M in tax refunds to 2,700 homeowners after they appealed

    Monroe is among the municipalities in Middlesex County that will be approving bonds to pay for the sudden spike in homeowners appealing their tax rates this year.

    About 2,750 residential appeals flooded Monroe this year, compared to 550 filed last year, according to township business administrator Wayne Hamilton

    Monroe will be looking to raise property taxes over the next three to five years in order to cover the roughly $5 million in expected refunds, Hamilton said.

  14. grim says:

    So are we replaying the last bubble/burst?

    5 more years of flat prices? Market poised to take off … in 2015?

    Or are we double dipping?

  15. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Grim 14 still waiting for the market to get rational. Still have smaller homes priced at peak level & some really nice ones realistically priced the same. Even during the bubble years houses of a certain type & size where in a range. Now they are all over the place. Until this clears I see more declines. I have to go with the double dip.

  16. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Gary 6 I’m surprised at you, tell them to go pound salt.
    Like your time line winter 2011- 12, good call.

  17. Final Doom says:

    gary (6)-

    Maybe the agent is lying, maybe not. Not enough info there to even venture a guess.

  18. Final Doom says:

    No double dip. The first one never ended.

    Hurtling toward oblivion now.

  19. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Housing outlook from our friends at Merrill, courtesy Pragmatic Capitalist.

    The Answer to a Housing Recovery: Lower Prices by: The Pragmatic Capitalist August 30, 2010

    The simple economics behind the situation in housing is beginning to become more apparent as the weeks go by. As we’ve noted for several years now, the primary problem in the US housing market remains one of supply and demand. As the jobs market continues to weaken, deflation takes hold of the US economy and the shadow inventory floods the market the math here remains simple enough for an Econ 101 student to understand. In order for the housing market to build a firm foundation that does not require government aid we will need to see a reduction in prices. In a recent research report Merrill Lynch described just how extreme the supply/demand imbalance has become in recent months and years:

    The collapse in housing demand means that it likely will take even longer to clear the inventory of homes for sale. In the new market, builders have continued to slash construction, maintaining incredibly lean inventories, and yet there is still supply of 9.1 months. Even more worrisome, however, is the existing home market where inventory is still on a decisive uptrend. As such, it takes 12.5 months to clear the inventory at the July sales pace. This widening gap between housing demand and supply means that construction likely will remain depressed and prices will dip lower (Chart 5).
    mer1 THE ANSWER TO A HOUSING RECOVERY: LOWER PRICES

    More worrisome is the huge increasing in shadow inventory that Merrill expects:

    The inventory of existing homes for sale is set to increase further as “shadow inventory” moves into the market. According to the latest Mortgage Bankers Association’s report, 9.1% of loans outstanding, which translates to 4.8 million, were seriously delinquent at the end of Q2 (capturing 90+ days delinquent or in the process of foreclosure). Unfortunately, this is not the end of the foreclosure pipeline. There were 2.6 million of mortgages either 30 or 60 days delinquent (Chart 6). It is likely that re-defaults from failed modifications – there have been 616,839 failed HAMP modifications – have contributed to early stage delinquencies.
    mer2 THE ANSWER TO A HOUSING RECOVERY: LOWER PRICES

    Based on Merrill’s estimates the housing market is unlikely to normalize before 2015. The supply/demand imbalance is simply staggering at the current levels and is likely to deteriorate if the economy weakens further:

    We define a normal housing market to be one in which housing starts are trending at the historical average of 1.5 million homes a year. In our view, we are several years away from this state of normalcy. Housing supply has outpaced housing demand by about 2 million homes over the past few years and is on pace to add another 500,000 excess homes by the end of 2012. For this excess to clear, housing starts must remain at a depressed level, not returning to normal until 2015. This would make it the slowest housing recovery in post-war history.
    If we pencil in our baseline forecast for housing starts of 590,000 this year and 690,000 next year, another 500,000 excess homes will be created. Looking ahead, we must be more judgmental. A reasonable scenario is that starts slowly edge higher to 1 mn by 2013 and reach the “normal pace” of 1.5 mn by 2015. At this point, most of the excess supply will have nearly cleared, allowing starts to pick up to match the pace of demand.

    Congress is currently discussing creative new ways to prop up this market. It should be plain as day at this juncture that the government cannot fix the housing market with their incessant fidgeting. The market needs to correct further before reaching a sustainable bottom. Lower prices will act as an automatic stabilizer by generating significant demand. At this point, more government intervention merely kicks the can down the road by pulling demand from the future. We can continue to deny the simple economics at work here, but at some point the market will prevail and prices will settle at a level that the market can absorb. In my opinion, the sooner this happens the sooner we can get on with the recovery process. Unfortunately, politicians have elections to win so they will continue to use their law degrees to attempt to change the laws of economics. It won’t work.

  20. jamil says:

    Clotpoll/Doom:

    Not sure which is your main handle, but anyway: I think this is where we can find common ground:
    Let’s give them Spain. At least half of it. Maybe even Freedom Flotilla there.
    “The North African terrorist group Al Qaeda in Maghreb, which recently released two Spanish aid workers after holding them hostage for nine months, has released a statement on an Al Qaeda-affiliated website calling for the reconquest of Spain in the name of Islam.”

  21. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Doom 18 saw that one coming.

  22. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Jamil – El Cid

  23. Final Doom says:

    “Just as the earnings of leveraged investors like banks are starting to suffer due to zero rate policy, so too the spending by all manner of savers, from retirees to companies and not-for-profits to municipalities, is falling too. Fed Chairman Bernanke and the other members of the FOMC are killing the real economy to save the banks — but none of the benefit flowing to the banks is reaching U.S. households. In fact, the Obama Administration has been providing political cover for the Fed to conduct a massive, reverse Robin Hood scheme, moving trillions of dollars in resources from savers and consumers to the big banks and their share and bond holders.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/chris-whalen-sends-memo-obama-says-it-time-break-refinance-strike-big-banks

  24. Final Doom says:

    jamil (20)-

    AQ should find Spain to their liking…and very familiar. Close to 40% UE in young adults, no hope and a bunch of insolvent cajas. Let ’em have it.

    Except for Barcelona.

  25. Final Doom says:

    Basque separatists could probably teach AQ a trick or two. Could probably also kick AQ’s asses.

  26. chicagofinance says:

    doom: what is you opinion of Luger’s? hacks?

  27. still_looking says:

    gary, 6

    Deal works for you or walk. No buyer’s remorse or regrets…

    Trust me on this one…

    sl

  28. still_looking says:

    I even know a great RE who will keep your balls out of the frying pan and the fire.

    sl

  29. chicagofinance says:

    They finally produced a video for the Cee-lo Green song….
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fjJlOHKsl8

  30. cobbler says:

    grim [13]
    I totally don’t understand unwillingness of the towns to do the full revaluation. For a place like Monroe Twp it probably costs about 500K (based on our Council refusing to budget ~300K it would cost for 50% smaller population). Instead, they essentially are forcing the people to appeal one-by-one costing the town gobloads of money to handle and totally wrecking the tax fairness within every neighborhood (same RE tax for the comparable value). Irrelevantly to the RE tax being way too high, there is no reason for the process to be abused in this manner.

  31. Mikeinwaiting says:

    SL 28- Grim

  32. Mikeinwaiting says:

    cobbler 30 Hoping people will not. Why give the whole town a reduction. Cost it out better to fight a few than give the store away. By the way did you say fairness.

  33. Al Gore says:

    Just finished watching the Money Masters documentary. Keeps me on my toes.

  34. still_looking says:

    Mike, 31

    Of course!

    sl

  35. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Al you got to get out more, evening Sl how you doing?

  36. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Futures looking pretty green.

  37. Final Doom says:

    mike (32)-

    Yeah, fair…fair, like a plunger handle up the poop chute.

  38. Final Doom says:

    Fair…like going to Afghanistan to get shot while protecting the poppy trade.

  39. cobbler says:

    mikeinwaiting [32]
    Taxes for each property are determined by dividing the whole budget by the total value of the assessed properties, then determining the rate per 100$$ and applying it to the individual property. If assessments of a bunch of random properties drop (due to the appeals) the moneys missing from the budget will be collected by increasing the tax rate. E.g., the council+school board+county decided they need $1,000,000 for the year. Assume there are 200 similar properties each valued at $200,000, that means the total valuation is $40 mln, and the rate will be $2.50 per $100 of valuation, that is, every property pays $5,000. Now, because there were 20 foreclosures these houses sold at $100,000 each. These owners, as well as 4 neighbors for each foreclosed home, appealed and got the valuation reduced to $100,000. Now, the total value for the town dropped to $30 mln. Since the money to be collected stays the same, the rate went up to $3.33 per $100 of valuation, and now the owners who didn’t appeal are paying $6,667 and those who appealed – $3,333. This obviously encourages more and more owners to appeal, and eventually (at some point) the whole town gets assessed at $100,000, rate gets to $5.00 per $100 of valuation, and everyone again pays $5,000 in tax. Since the town obviously spends much more money dealing with appeals than it would cost to revalue all the properties at a wholesale rate, it engages in a very poor business practice by not revaluing when the number of appeals exceeds certain level.
    Sorry for the boring post.

  40. Mikeinwaiting says:

    cobbler 39 sound reasonable, but the guy who appealed gets a lower tax bill for at least a bit of time. In addition to expect elected officials to extrapolate this trend of thought is fantasy. This is NJ!

  41. NJGator says:

    cobbler – Montclair is finally going to reassess-but not until 2012 tax year, so we will have been taken to the cleaners for 4 years and probably close to $10m in refunds by the time our town finally acts.

    And Mike – a reassessment doesn’t give anyone a break. The tax rate will be jacked up to account for the lower overall valuation. Doing nothing, on the other hand, gives a huge break to those few taxpayers that appeal at the expense of those who can, but don’t.

  42. Final Doom says:

    In anarchy, there are no taxes.

    Burn the mf’er down!!!!

  43. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Gator 41 so this being said having appealed ( as you have) you get a break if you sold before 2012, no?

  44. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Doom 43 ever consistent!

  45. Mikeinwaiting says:

    me 44 dare I say to whom.

  46. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Qwerty to quote a friend:” Burn the mf’er down!!!!” or is it ” die market die!!!” We’ll go with the latter for this sit.

  47. cobbler says:

    mike, gator [40, 41]
    Methinks the appeal process had been designed not for the situations like today (when all properties drop in price but only some people bother to appeal) but to correct the issue with the appraisal done not right from the beginning, or maybe some neighborhood-specific trend. What is going on now is the abuse of the system; I think the courts should assume that the price trend is generic, and not accept the cases just on the basis of the recent comps – unless there is something particularly damaging about the property in question

  48. NJGator says:

    mike 44 – We’ve reduced our assessment by about 25% off of our original 2007 assessment, so yes, we’ve done okay.

    In our town, not all properties have declined equally, and we have been hit harder than most, so I don’t think we’ll see too much of an increase after the 2012 reassessment. In any event it is not a done deal, I’ve been told that there is a resolution being prepared for the council, but it still has to be approved by Essex County. If Montclair does not act this year, they could be forced to do a full revaluation (with property inspections) instead of a less costly reassessment. Knowing our town council, they will totally drop the ball and we will have to pay the extra money for a reval.

    As for our appeal this year, a funny thing happened in East Orange. Despite having what we thought was a fantastic hearing, our judgement came back at 20k over what the town offered us as a settlement, and 7k over the sale of a home on our block that was 1000sf larger and assessed 100k higher than ours by the town. We will be appealing to the state tax court (what the h@ll, it only costs $35). So we are still overassessed and should see a further assessment reduction in any reassessment.

  49. NJGator says:

    cobbler – not all properties drop in lockstep. Our property is probably worth aboutt 30% less than we were assessed at in 2007. There are plenty of homes in our town that are still selling for more than they were assessed for back than. Granted, that number is less and less each year. However, the state says the average ratio for Montclair’s sales was only 99.30 for this tax year. Since we were assessed for about 110%+ for what we could reasonable sell for, that tells me I am paying more than my fair share of taxes, and you better believe I am appealing. I certainly won’t wait until assessments are above market value and then the town gets a 15% buffer to defend against appeals. That is certainly a bad law that scr@ws the already scr@wed taxpayer.

    The current system is not really set up to handle assessments at peak and then market declines. It would be more fair to reassess all properties annually. Fat chance of that happening though.

  50. leftwing says:

    Question

    In Speedy’s post 4 above, it’s claimed that FHA loans are assumable. Went to the link, couldn’t find it.

    Anyone know if this is the case?

  51. still_looking says:

    Mike, 35

    Doing okay. Just a few more hurdles til my latest stress settles down… Thanks for asking…. I had to be up early so didn’t see your post til now.

    Off to the Pit.

    sl

  52. grim says:

    From CNBC:

    Home Prices Have Further to Fall

    How is it that last week we were driving nails into the housing market’s coffin, with negative report after negative report, and then suddenly today the stock market took a bounce on one new price report, and I’m hearing the word “bottom” over and over? This is the kind of news day that makes my head spin, and then, inevitably, as I endeavor to make sense of it all here on the blog, any number of you charge me with, in your kindest words, being overly negative.

    The S&P/Case-Shiller Indices show the U.S. National Home Price Index rose 4.4 percent in the second quarter of 2010, after having fallen 2.8 percent in the first quarter. Home prices are 3.6 percent above their year-earlier levels.

    Okay, there’s your quote.

    Now for reality.

    “Housing prices have rebounded from crisis lows, but other recent housing indicators point to more ominous signals as tax incentives have ended and foreclosures continue.”

    I can say “backward-looking, government stimulus-induced, seasonally aberrant” data until I’m a member of the blue man group, but I know there are those out there who still think this is great news. Even the folks at S&P/Case-Shiller warn us to look at the non-seasonally adjusted data because the current state of the economy has distorted all the seasonal factors. Month to month is also not worth it because of issues like the tax credit.

    While some may see these price gains from the trough as a sign of bouncing along the bottom, most experts believe home prices nationally will fall again, but not necessarily immediately.

  53. Final Doom says:

    gator (49)-

    How quaint that you still think of this as taxation. It’s actually a large, organized criminal gang that’s stealing from you.

    “Despite having what we thought was a fantastic hearing, our judgement came back at 20k over what the town offered us as a settlement, and 7k over the sale of a home on our block that was 1000sf larger and assessed 100k higher than ours by the town. We will be appealing to the state tax court (what the h@ll, it only costs $35). So we are still overassessed and should see a further assessment reduction in any reassessment.”

  54. Final Doom says:

    Judge = crew boss

  55. Final Doom says:

    left (51)-

    FHA and VA are assumable loans. However, mortgage insurance premiums sometimes make them unattractive for assumption. As a buyer, you should arb the difference between assumption and getting a new loan.

  56. Final Doom says:

    “When termites eat your house, you don’t notice a thing. You don’t hear a thing, you don’t see a thing—you’re house stands there, silent and staid, while you and your family happily go about your days, without a care in the world—

    —until your house crashes on top of your head.

    Right now, we are at a stage where Treasury bonds are as weakened as a termite-riddled house. They look fine: Nice glossy coat of paint, pretty shingles, bright clear windows, sturdy-looking plankings on the open-aired porch.

    But Treasuries are well on their way to a complete collapse. Why? Because of the way they have been mishandled and mistreated by the Federal Reserve Board, and the U.S. Treasury. Whether by incompetence or by design, U.S. Treasury bonds have become the New & Improved Toxic Asset. The question is no longer if they will collapse—it’s when.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-termite-riddled-house-treasury-bonds

  57. Final Doom says:

    More:

    “It’s been the Federal government that has been “mopping up excess liquidity”—mopping it up and spending it on stimulus that doesn’t work, wars that can’t be won, dodgy dinosaur-projects that aren’t going to do squat to improve people’s health. That’s why the TBTF haven’t been lending money to businesses and “getting the economy back on track”—they’ve been too busy lending to the Federal government.

    Clever people call Treasuries “assets”—but like I’ve said, I’m just stupid: I just call it debt. When I look at all this Federal government debt—unprecedented amounts of fiscal debt—I can’t help but notice that it is all unsecured—because it is unsecured. At least Toxic Assets had something backing them up, even if they were worth much less than advertised. Treasury bonds, on the other hand, are based only—solely—on the “full faith and credit” of the United States Federal government.

    Y’Know: The one in Washington. The same U.S. Federal government that is running 100% debt-to-GDP ratios this year, 110% next year, and likely 120% the year after that—if not more.

    Mm-hmm . . .

    What happens when a debtor becomes so over-extended that he cannot possibly pay back his loans? Naturally: They default—or they try to wriggle their way out of the debt, by giving you something less valuable than what you are owed.

    It is not controversial to say—and indeed, it is widely discussed—that the U.S. Treasury has only two options: Default on Treasury bonds, or debase the currency by way of inflation, so that the nominal value of Treasuries is stable, but their real value decays by inflationary attrition.”

  58. Confused in NJ says:

    Interesting, it’s illegal to hire illegals, and also illegal to check if they are illegal.

    Feds file new Arizona immigration lawsuit, this time to protect workers
    By Daniel B. Wood Daniel B. Wood – Tue Aug 31, 8:06 pm ET

    Los Angeles – Less than two months after the US Department of Justice sued Arizona over the state’s controversial immigration law, it has filed another lawsuit targeting immigration practices by Arizona authorities.

    The new case is unrelated to the one against Gov. Jan Brewer and the state over the illegal immigration law, but that doesn’t mean it won’t be a divisive one. Legal experts say it further sets up a clash between the 10th Amendment – which gives to states all powers that aren’t explicitly granted to the federal government – and the Supremacy Clause, which gives the federal government exclusive power over immigration.

    In the new suit, filed Monday, the Justice Department says Phoenix-area Maricopa Community Colleges (MCC) discriminated against almost 250 noncitizen job applicants by requiring them to fill out more documents than the law requires to prove their eligibility to work.

    Monday’s suit is “stronger in a way” than the suit against Governor Brewer over the immigration law, because it is more specific, says Jesse Choper of UC Berkeley’s Boalt School of Law.

    Congress has stated what it requires for the employment application, “but doesn’t say what states cannot require,” says Mr. Choper. “If the federal government named the requirements and said these are the only ones, this case would be a slam dunk,” he says. “But they didn’t, so now the government has to argue what they intended.”

    It’s “unlawful to treat authorized workers differently during the hiring process based on their citizenship status,” said Thomas Perez, assistant attorney general for the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division, in a statement. The government is “acting now to remedy this pattern or practice of discrimination.”

    This new lawsuit indicates that the state of Arizona continues to dominate the immigration debate in the United States, says Catherine Wilson, an immigration expert at Villanova University. “It also tells us that the Obama administration is cracking down on discriminatory hiring practices for noncitizens at the same time [it] faces intense criticism of heightened levels of deportations under its watch – higher than those under Bush.”

    Representatives for Maricopa Community Colleges – which operates 10 colleges and two vocational training centers in the Phoenix area – have declined to comment on the suit. But Ms. Wilson says that there is a possibility that the MCC could settle with the government. That happened in a similar case earlier this year, when John Jay College was sued by the Justice Department for bias against noncitizens.

    “They put into effect a training program to avoid further criticism of their hiring practices,” says Wilson. “The MCC training might include similarly training their personnel over what are the proper forms to use and how to see that this doesn’t happen again.”

  59. gary says:

    I agree with you all. Forget the current price on anything and “mark” the house to the long term trend line. Attach the deposit to the contract and let ’em know they have 48 hours to accept the offer. Like everyone else says here, there shouldn’t be an inkling of doubt. I’ll know it when I see it.

    I’m going to work now. Don’t answer the phone or the door and stay away from the stove. Oh, by the way, did I hear Barry say “Mission Accomplished” in a speech last night?

  60. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “No double dip. The first one never ended.”

    Doom,

    Single scoop depression.

  61. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Either O should extend HAMP or the fed should bring onto its balance sheet. Otherwise, the dead will be homeless.

    http://jsmineset.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/clip_image00147.jpg

  62. Final Doom says:

    BC (63)-

    I’m tempted to say the underlying asset is eroding, but I’ll refrain. :)

  63. Mikeinwaiting says:

    August 2010 National Employment Report
    Private sector employment decreased by 10,000 from July to August on a seasonally adjusted
    basis, according to the latest ADP National Employment Report® released today. The estimated
    change of employment from June to July was revised down slightly, from the previously
    reported increase of 42,000 to an increase of 37,000.

    http://www.adpemploymentreport.com/pdf/FINAL_Report_August_10.pdf

    PS +1300k was EXPECTED!

  64. Final Doom says:

    Then again, a cemetery should fit nicely into FedCo’s balance sheet of exquisitely impaired assets.

  65. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Oops that’s 13k expected, more coffee please.

  66. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    Hey, the pump monkeys are out in full force today. Wonder how many billions of the taxpayer money will be spent propping up this complete farce of a market…..

  67. Final Doom says:

    FedCo and the offshore guys working those darkpools hard today.

    This will all go along swimmingly…until the biggest stock market collapse in history happens in under one second.

  68. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Hype you should have heard them trying to spin the ADP numbers on CNBC, Lies-men
    spining, Santelli providing the foil of legitimacy. All contrived.

  69. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Hat tip Doom. Co-opted your lies-men, is that the correct spelling?

  70. Final Doom says:

    Stocks up, USD getting plunger-handled, China announces its own version of stress tests (Chinese water torture?).

    Gonna be a great fcuking day, watching all my shorts get obliterated.

  71. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Thought I had it wrong.

  72. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Doom 73 that is the plan hold on tight.

  73. Final Doom says:

    I’ll still be short at the closing bell.

  74. Mr Hyde says:

    Confused 59

    …It also tells us that the Obama administration is cracking down on discriminatory hiring practices for noncitizens…

    Nice,

    The president is worried about illegal aliens being unable to get jobs. AT least he is actively working to support someone in this nation, albeit illegal aliens as opposed to supporting citizens.

    Can we get a treason charge for Obama? Then again the last few presidents should have probably been charged with treason.

  75. homeboken says:

    Doom if you really beleive what you say here then there is no reason to be long or short the equity market. Why put any money into a crooked casino? Having your money attached to a long or short position will eventually wind up with it being vaporized. Let the computers try to algo each other to death, then when the worst crash in history occurs in under one second, as you state, all your shorts will still be worth zero. Those trades will al be DK’d as the exchanges hit the reset button. You can’t make money in the equity market as a retail investor anymore. Time to take your ball and go home.

  76. chicagofinance says:

    Final Doom says:
    August 31, 2010 at 11:28 pm
    mike (32)-
    Yeah, fair…fair, like a plunger handle up the poop chute.
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=giuliani

  77. Bystander says:

    Hilarious! A Brooklyn “mansion” – $1 Million, no negotiation. Did this realtor just get off the boat from Eatern Europe? He is a little late to the market.

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/reb/1930694905.html

  78. Final Doom says:

    boken (78)-

    What I have in shorting equities is a fraction of what I’ve got in physical and wagering on soccer.

  79. Final Doom says:

    Chi (79)-

    Hilarious!

  80. Final Doom says:

    stander (80)-

    The agent looks like a Stasi captain.

  81. dim says:

    80 – Wow, dropping a million bucks on E13th and Ave U…

  82. jamil says:

    Yeah baby!

    “Federal spending rises a record 16% in 2009, Census Bureau says. “The rise in spending was the largest since the Census Bureau began compiling the data in 1983. The Washington region was among the biggest beneficiaries of the government’s spending.” ”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/31/AR2010083102811.html

  83. dan says:

    Could use some advice. We’ve been looking at houses and now landlord sprung 9% rent increase on us and since they’re a corporate type, the rates are even higher if we stay less than a year. Lease is up early November. Between possibly lower prices and a scumbag apartment managment, how would you proceed? Wife thinks we should apartment company to go f%%% off and put stuff in storage and stay south at grandparents with longer commutes temporarily. Thoughts?

  84. joyce says:

    CNN “September rally is in full swing after a report shows an unexpected rise in manufacturing activity”

    the market has been open for less than 2.5 hours in September, for goodness sake

  85. jamil says:

    86: send a written offer to the landlord, offering to continue with the same rent.
    You can also argue that you believe this is the reasonable market rate and win-win for them too (given the hassles with finding a new tenant, renovations between tenants etc).

  86. yo'me says:

    ISM UNEXPECTEDLY up 10 yr gained 6 basis points to 2.60.^6 basis points on the news

  87. jamil says:

    Things we all like to hear from the Government:
    “(Departing WH Advisor) Romer: U.S. must find will for further stimulus”

    GOP Campaign Ads almost write themselves. November can’t come soon enough.

  88. I really hope that we pull out of this sometime soon!

  89. Ben says:

    Could use some advice. We’ve been looking at houses and now landlord sprung 9% rent increase on us and since they’re a corporate type, the rates are even higher if we stay less than a year. Lease is up early November. Between possibly lower prices and a scumbag apartment managment, how would you proceed? Wife thinks we should apartment company to go f%%% off and put stuff in storage and stay south at grandparents with longer commutes temporarily. Thoughts?

    Sounds like Avalon Bay to me. Seriously, make them a take it or leave it offer. If you leave, they need to fill that spot ASAP to profit more. 1 month vacancy makes their rent increase null and void in terms of profit.

  90. Final Doom says:

    Wait until the last possible moment until your take-it-or-leave-it letter. Don’t give them time to refill the vacancy you’ll leave.

  91. Painhrtz says:

    for the Prius lovers whoa are in love with the smell of their own farts. More government please

    http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/110526/new-stickers-will-go-beyond-mpg-in-rating-cars?mod=family-autos

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  93. leftwing says:

    re: the new gov car stickers

    Flunk me out at a D- baby and 100hp per liter!

  94. DL says:

    Harrisburg PA defaults.

  95. leftwing says:

    “discriminatory hiring practices for noncitizens”

    Yet the latest non-sequitor from the overlords…

    This nation is unbelieveable. To go to London to work I needed multiple work permits, renewed annually after a certain period, and had to demonstrate each time that the job required my specific skills over those of a citizen. My youngest was born over there, and it took 4+ years for him to be nationalized.

    Here, come on over, we’ll prohibit people from even asking if you’re here legally, and if you can pop out a kid we’ll give him a shiny blue passport on the spot.

    The US population doesn’t realize how far off track we have gone. I swear, it’s getting hard to find an area where the former ‘Euro-sclerocis’ states don’t have a leg up on us.

  96. leftwing says:

    Re: Obama extending HAMP for the cemetery…

    Right down his alley…that cheap Chicago political ward hack (excuse me, community organizer) had dead people voting all over the place, why not throw money at them now too?

  97. Confused in NJ says:

    98.DL says:
    September 1, 2010 at 12:54 pm
    Harrisburg PA defaults

    They probably insured their bonds with AIG, so Ben will use tax payer money to pay them off.

  98. leftwing says:

    Clot, re: FHA

    Stupid question probably but can I get an FHA jumbo agency product (the $750 +/- limit) with 20%+ down and no PMI at market rate that is assumable?

    Thx

  99. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    From Blinder.

    “The Fed has run out of the strong tools, and is turning to weak ones. When you’re fighting in a foxhole and you’ve used up the machine guns and hand grenades, then you pull out the sword and start throwing rocks.”

  100. Shore Guy says:

    I dont know if this has beenposted yet but, this is a nice price cut, would that all sellers do the same percentage drop in asking price (although the profit they are looking for after 10 year’s of ownership is absurd):

    http://www.app.com/article/20100831/BUSINESS/8310348/Owners-of-Rumson-mansion-reduce-price-from-29-9M-to-19-5M

    RUMSON — So you don’t want to spend $29.9 million on a spectacular Rumson home on the south bank of the Navesink River.

    How about $19.5 million?

    The grand estate owned by Pete and Judi Dawkins now has one thing in common with other houses on the market: a price drop.

    The 18-room house, listed by Turpin Realtors in Tewksbury, is now listed at $19.5 million, a drop of nearly 35 percent. Even with the price cut, it would still be the most expensive home ever sold through the Monmouth-Ocean Multiple Listing Service. A call to Turpin Realtors was referred to John Turpin, the agency’s broker-of-record, who was not available

    Pete Dawkins is an investment banker, a former executive with Citigroup and a former West Point tailback, whose resume includes winning the 1958 Heisman Trophy, a Rhodes scholarship, a military career that led him to serve in Vietnam and retire as a brigadier general, and an unsuccessful challenge to U.S. Sen. Frank R. Lautenberg, D-N.J., in 1988. Dawkins and his wife, Judi, bought the property 10 years ago for $4.5 million.

    snip

  101. Final Doom says:

    left (99)-

    Our whole fascist gubmint hates us and is waging all-out war against us. Allowing the country to be overrun by illegal aliens is an easy way for them to cheaply outsource the battle. The gubmint-warmongering class only exists to pay, grow and perpetuate itself at the expense of ordinary people.

    They won’t stop until they have broken the middle class and appropriated all its current and future wealth for themselves.

  102. Shore Guy says:

    “and if you can pop out a kid we’ll give him a shiny blue passport on the spot.”

    What hyperbole. You should be ashamed of your self. It takes a good six weeks to get a passport. And, since a newborn needs a social security number first, I bet it is a good eight weeks before the child of illegals can get a U.S. passport.

  103. Final Doom says:

    left (102)-

    Theoretically, yes. In practice, there are probably a limited amount of investors who will underwrite that loan…although a borrower seeking such a loan should be quality enough to interest an investor.

    I’m pretty sure the lender would collect some sort of upfront MI payment, and I bet it would be steep. The chances of such a loan being assumed by a lower-quality borrower- early in the life of the loan- has got to be pretty high.

  104. Ben says:

    “Clever people call Treasuries “assets”—but like I’ve said, I’m just stupid: I just call it debt. When I look at all this Federal government debt—unprecedented amounts of fiscal debt—I can’t help but notice that it is all unsecured—because it is unsecured”

    History is littered with bonds that ended up worthless. Marc Faber had a great write up in his latest GBD letter talking about how you can buy, as historical relics, defaulted bonds from empires past from every age. Similarly, there were all types of bonds for railroads and canals that were never built. All ended up completely worthless. At a rate of return below 3%, all of these bonds are a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. In any situation, they remain a horrible investment. In a huge deflationary bust (which won’t happen IMO), defaults will be left and right. In a moderate to high inflation climate, low yielding bonds become trash.

  105. Final Doom says:

    shore (104)-

    I thought Corzine had a contract on that shitbox.

  106. Shore Guy says:

    SL,

    Here is a MD who seems to have gone around the bend, as it were:

    http://jerseyshore.momslikeme.com/members/JournalActions.aspx?g=2102450&m=14169337&grpcat=

    A California doctor involved in an “on-again, off-again” relationship apparently tried to force her way into her boyfriend’s home by sliding down the chimney, police said Tuesday. Her decomposing body was found there three days later.

    Dr. Jacquelyn Kotarac, 49, first tried to get into the house with a shovel, then climbed a ladder to the roof last Wednesday night, removed the chimney cap and slid feet first down the flue, Bakersfield police Sgt. Mary DeGeare said.

    While she was trying to break in, the man she was pursuing escaped unnoticed from another exit “to avoid a confrontation,” authorities said.

    DeGeare said the two were in an “on-again, off-again” relationship.

    snip

  107. Shore Guy says:

    Has John been to NJ recently? He has a BMW, I believe:

    http://www.app.com/article/20100901/NEWS/100901057/Howell-man-issued-summons-for-lewdness-at-Parkway-rest-stop

    Just kidding John. I know you would never live in Howell.

  108. Final Doom says:

    BC (103)-

    Funny…I always thought the first rule when in a hole was to stop digging.

  109. Shore Guy says:

    Clot,

    What he had was a contract on the productive classes.

  110. Final Doom says:

    Nice.

    “Kotarac apparently died in the chimney, but her body was not discovered until a house-sitter noticed a stench and fluids coming from the fireplace Saturday, according to a police statement.”

  111. Mike says:

    Shore Guy If I make an offer Of $195,000.00 for that home does the agent have to present it to the owners? Or just tell me to hit the road. I’m not sure if all offers had to presented.

  112. Final Doom says:

    Send a letter to Dawkins via your agent, calling him a bagholder.

  113. Final Doom says:

    Then again, Dawkins is probably the only Heisman winner in the last 20 years who hasn’t had to hawk his trophy to buy food.

  114. andrew says:

    Any referrals for a mortgage broker for a primary residence refinance and a couple of investment property refinances? 750+ credit, 50-60% LTV, Union and Essex Counties. Lurking for years and love the site

  115. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Doom [117],

    That hits close to home; Doug Flutie.

  116. sas3 says:

    andrew,

    Bob Farrell, First Valley Funding
    Phone: (908)231-7390
    http://www.firstvalleyfunding.com/

    Clot’s guy… Had my mortgage and refinancing through him…

  117. Juice Box says:

    Death By Globalism

    By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

    Have economists made themselves irrelevant? If you have any doubts, have a look at the current issue of the magazine, International Economy, a slick publication endorsed by former Federal Reserve chairmen Paul Volcker and Alan Greenspan, by Jean-Claude Trichet, president of the European Central Bank, by former Secretary of State George Shultz, and by the New York Times and Washington Post, both of which declare the magazine to be “ahead of the curve.”

    The main feature of the current issue is “The Great Stimulus Debate.” Is the Obama fiscal stimulus helping the economy or hindering it?

    Princeton economics professor and New York Times columnist Paul Krugman and Moody’s Analytics chief economist Mark Zandi represent the Keynesian view that government deficit spending is needed to lift the economy out of recession. Zandi declares that thanks to the fiscal stimulus, “The economy has made enormous progress since early 2009,” an opinion shared by the President’s Council of Economic Advisors and the Congressional Budget Office.

    The opposite view, associated with Harvard economics professor Robert Barro and with European economists, such as Francesco Giavazzi and Marco Pagano and the European Central Bank, is that government budget surpluses achieved by cutting government spending spur the economy by reducing the ratio of debt to Gross Domestic Product. This is the “let them eat cake school of economics.”

    Barro says that fiscal stimulus has no effect, because people anticipate the future tax increases implied by government deficits and increase their personal savings to offset the added government debt. Giavazzi and Pagano reason that since fiscal stimulus does not expand the economy, fiscal austerity consisting of higher taxes and reduced government spending could be the cure for unemployment.

    If one overlooks the real world and the need of life for sustenance, one can become engrossed in this debate. However, the minute one looks out the window upon the world, one realizes that cutting Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, and housing subsidies when 15 million Americans have lost jobs, medical coverage, and homes is a certain path to death by starvation, curable diseases, and exposure, and the loss of the productive labor inputs from 15 million people. Although some proponents of this anti-Keynesian policy deny that it results in social upheaval, Gerald Celente’s observation is closer to the mark: “When people have nothing left to lose, they lose it.”

    The Krugman Keynesian school is just as deluded. Neither side in “The Great Stimulus Debate” has a clue that the problem for the U.S. is that a large chunk of U.S. GDP and the jobs, incomes, and careers associated with it, have been moved offshore and given to Chinese, Indians, and others with low wage rates. Profits have soared on Wall Street, while job prospects for the middle class have been eliminated.

    The offshoring of American jobs resulted from (1) Wall Street pressures for “higher shareholder returns,” that is, for more profits, and from (2) no-think economists, such as the ones engaged in the debate over fiscal stimulus, who mistakenly associated globalism with free trade instead of with its antithesis–the pursuit of lowest factor cost abroad or absolute advantage, the opposite of comparative advantage, which is the basis for free trade theory. Even Krugman, who has some credentials as a trade theorist has fallen for the equation of globalism with free trade.

    As economists assume, incorrectly according to the latest trade theory by Ralph Gomory and William Baumol, that free trade is always mutually beneficial, economists have failed to examine the devastatingly harmful effects of offshoring. The more intelligent among them who point it out are dismissed as “protectionists.”

    The reason fiscal stimulus cannot rescue the U.S. economy has nothing to do with the difference between Barro and Krugman. It has to do with the fact that a large percentage of high-productivity, high-value-added jobs and the middle class incomes and careers associated with them have been given to foreigners. What used to be U.S. GDP is now Chinese, Indian, and other country GDP.

    When the jobs have been shipped overseas, fiscal stimulus does not call workers back to work in order to meet the rising consumer demand. If fiscal stimulus has any effect, it stimulates employment in China and India.

    The “let them eat cake school” is equally off the mark. As investment, research, development, etc., have been moved offshore, cutting entitlements simply drives the domestic population deeper in the ground. Americans cannot pay their mortgages, car payments, tuition, utility bills, or for that matter, any bill, based on Chinese and Indian pay scales. Therefore, Americans are priced out of the labor market and become dependencies of the federal budget. “Fiscal consolidation” means writing off large numbers of humans.

    During the Great Depression, many wage and salary earners were new members of the labor force arriving from family farms, where many parents and grandparents still supported themselves. When their city jobs disappeared, many could return to the farm.

    Today farming is in the hands of agri-business. There are no farms to which the unemployed can return.

    The “let them eat cake school” never mentions the one point in its favor. The U.S., with all its huffed up power and importance, depends on the U.S. dollar as reserve currency. It is this role of the dollar that allows America to pay for its imports in its own currency. For a country whose trade is as unbalanced as America’s, this privilege is what keeps the country afloat.

    The threats to the dollar’s role are the budget and trade deficits. Both are so large and have accumulated for so long that the prospect of making good on them has evaporated. As I have written for a number of years, the U.S. is so dependent on the dollar as reserve currency that it must have as its main policy goal to preserve that role.

    Otherwise, the U.S., an import-dependent country, will be unable to pay for its excess of imports over its exports.

    “Fiscal consolidation,” the new term for austerity, could save the dollar. However, unless starvation, homelessness and social upheaval are the goals, the austerity must fall on the military budget. America cannot afford its multi-trillion dollar wars that serve only to enrich those invested in the armaments industries. The U.S. cannot afford the neoconservative dream of world hegemony and a conquered Middle East. (here’s where Roberts fumbles the ball a bit- the US is in the ME in order to assure the mandate of the dollar as the world’s oil-buying script)

    Is anyone surprised that not a single proponent of the “let them eat cake school” mentions cutting military spending? Entitlements, despite the fact that they are paid for by earmarked taxes and have been in surplus since the Reagan administration, are always what economists put on the chopping bloc.

    Where do the two schools stand on inflation vs. deflation? We don’t have to worry. Martin Feldstein, one of America’s pre-eminent economist says: “The good news is that investors should worry about neither.” His explanation epitomizes the insouciance of American economists.

    Feldstein says that there cannot be inflation because of the high rate of unemployment and the low rate of capacity utilization. Thus, “there is little upward pressure on wages and prices in the United States.” Moreover, “the recent rise in the value of the dollar relative to the euro and British pound helps by reducing import costs.”

    As for deflation, no risk there either. The huge deficits prevent deflation, “so the good news is that the possibility of significant inflation or deflation during the next few years is low on the list of economic risks faced by the U.S. economy and by financial investors.”

    What we have in front of us is an unaware economics profession. There may be some initial period of deflation as stock and housing prices decline with the economy, which is headed down and not up. The deflation will be short lived, because as the government’s deficit rises with the declining economy, the prospect of financing a $2 trillion annual deficit evaporates once individual investors have completed their flight from the stock market into “safe” government bonds, once the hyped Greek, Spanish, and Irish crises have driven investors out of euros into dollars, and once the banks’ excess reserves created by the bailout have been used up in the purchase of Treasuries.

    Then what finances the deficit? Don’t look for an answer from either side of The Great Stimulus Debate. They haven’t a clue despite the fact that the answer is obvious.

    The Federal Reserve will monetize the federal government deficit. The result will be high inflation, possibly hyper-inflation and high unemployment simultaneously.

    The no-think economics establishment has no policy response for economic armageddon, assuming they are even capable of recognizing it.

    Economists who have spent their professional lives rationalizing “globalism” as good for America have no idea of the disaster that they have wrought.

    Paul Craig Roberts was an editor of the Wall Street Journal and an Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Treasury.

  118. Mr Hyde says:

    Juice box, 121

    Great article. So how do we get out of this monkey trap? Equalization tariffs are one of the few ways out in the short term and would be needed to allow american industrial infrastructure to be rebuilt. We could also just do a WWII redux and bomb the majority of the worlds industrial infrastructure into oblivion.

  119. Juice Box says:

    re: #122 – Hyde British Empire comes to mind. We slowly give up territory and cut our expenses.

  120. Painhrtz says:

    Juice in the end your proposal is the most appropriate. Retrench the military from around the world, slash it’s budget. Enact some austerity on social programs. Kill the moraass of goverment agencies. Go to a flat tax that gets everyone. poor rich and middle income (no one spared taxation). As the debt is paid off scale back the taxes.

    Article for all intents and purposes states we are fcuked. no news here otheres int he country might be surprised by it though.

  121. Mr Hyde says:

    Pain 124

    Given the current politicians we have and he current state of the general public that article all but guarantees we FCKD to an exponential degree. Here we come argentina

  122. yo'me says:

    Based from his manifesto,one less filth on this earth by the end of the day

    Discovery channel hostage taker demand
    http://www.businessinsider.com/discovery-channel-hostage-taker-demands-2010-9

  123. yo'me says:

    Sounds like Doom in action

  124. Final Doom says:

    Guy sounds pretty reasonable to me.

  125. Final Doom says:

    I hear the guy is also asking for a full weekend of Cake Boss episodes for Labor Day.

  126. jamil says:

    126 Oh, Tea Party violence again!
    Nancy Pelosi was right.
    He was probably listening Beck all day long and worshipped Sarah Palin more than Shore Guy adored Obama.

  127. Final Doom says:

    Too bad that guy couldn’t take Pelosi hostage.

  128. Painhrtz says:

    I have to agree with doom the guy sounds fairly reasonable.

    Hyde being fukced is baked in, the rest of the rats on the ship just don’t know it yet

  129. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    Come on you pump monkeys, I want a 300 point up day. If we are going to rally for no good reason, let’s make it a memorable one!

  130. Juice Box says:

    Think the lady dropping the cat into the garbage can in England was bad? Well Bosnian girl out does her by puppy tossing/drowing.

    Link to Daily news with link to video.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/09/01/2010-09-01_bosian_police_hunt_girl_throwing_puppies_in_river_in_disturbing_video_peta_offer.html

  131. Mr Hyde says:

    Pain

    Did you look at the comments to the hostage takers demands? All the commentators can do is call each other teabaggers and leftist. The idea that there might be something besides those 2 labels doesnt seem to compute.

    oh, and i didnt see much unreasonable in his demands. Realistic? Hell no! but not unreasonable.

  132. Painhrtz says:

    Hyde they are all brainwashed fools, critical thinking has long been pounded out of the US population. If you don’t have a label your unamerican. I am going to label myself as a post nazism transexual eskimo

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  134. Mr Hyde says:

    pain

    I see your post nazism transexual eskimo and raise you a neo-progressive transgender lezbian immigrant

  135. Final Doom says:

    What shall we label jamil?

  136. Mr Hyde says:

    Through the looking glass…..

    Tesla fined $275,000 for not obtaining emissions certificate. (pg 96 of 10Q)

    Our performance electric vehicles, the sale of motor vehicles in general and the electronic components used in our vehicles are subject to substantial regulation under international, federal, state, and local laws. We have incurred, and expect to incur in the future, significant costs in complying with these regulations. For example, the Clean Air Act requires that we obtain a Certificate of Conformity issued by the EPA and a California Executive Order issued by the California Air Resources Board with respect to emissions for our vehicles. We received a Certificate of Conformity for sales of our Tesla Roadsters in 2008, but did not receive a Certificate of Conformity for sales of the Tesla Roadster in 2009 until December 21, 2009. In January 2010, we and the EPA entered into an Administrative Settlement Agreement and Audit Policy Determination in which we agreed to pay a civil administrative penalty in the sum of $275,000 for failing to obtain a Certificate of Conformity for sales of our vehicles in 2009 prior to December 21, 2009.

    Read more: http://www.faqs.org/sec-filings/100813/TESLA-MOTORS-INC_10-Q/#ixzz0yJTi0Q8S

    http://www.faqs.org/sec-filings/100813/TESLA-MOTORS-INC_10-Q/#ixzz0yDhK9ON3

  137. Morpheus says:

    140: how about “an ass”.

  138. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    Announced U.S. Job Cuts Fell 55% From Year Ago, Challenger Says

    Planned firings dropped 55 percent to 34,768 last month from 76,456 in August 2009, according to figures released today by Chicago-based Challenger, Gray & Christmas Inc. Announced job cuts last month were the fewest since June 2000.

    California led all states with 6,711 announced job cuts, followed by New Jersey, with 5,486.

  139. renter says:

    Labels start with this obsession over race and “what are you?’
    It is amazing to me that you can look up a school and the US government provides a pie chart with the race distribution. What is this about? If we are so evolved then why don’t we stop asking these questions and reporting the answers?

  140. Final Doom says:

    Race is the chief tool the gubmint uses to get us to fight amongst ourselves.

  141. Essex says:

    145. It is a very touchy subject with most people. The whole race thing. But we ‘are’ a society that collects data. We slice and dice it. The gubmint likes to be in the know on matters of social significance.

  142. Yo'me says:

    I knew she was educated the way she grinds or was it the whiskey

  143. Yo'me says:

    Doom

    Carrianne Howard dreamed of designing video games, so she enrolled in a program at the Art Institute of Fort Lauderdale, a for-profit college part-owned by Goldman Sachs Group Inc. Her bachelor’s degree in game art and design cost $70,000 in tuition and fees. After she graduated in December 2007, she found a job that paid $12 an hour recruiting employees for video game companies. She lost that job a year later when her department was shuttered.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-05/stripper-s-college-degree-profitable-for-goldman-finds-70-000-was-wasted.html

  144. Yo'me says:

    Third world countries call centers have college degree operators,graduating in top universities.

  145. Satara says:

    This can’t be good

    Even Illegal Immigrants Are Giving Up On The US Economy

  146. Al Gore says:

    I think we have more time with this treasury bubble. Maybe even 2 years.

    Gold bitchez.

    End of message.

  147. Final Doom says:

    yo (149)-

    Hot for teacher.

  148. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Doom do you mean the student.

  149. Mr Hyde says:

    Essex, Renter 145

    As has been said race is but a diversion. divide and conquer. As soon as you get 2 groups to define themselves differently, whether black/white, indian/american, etc the 2 groups will “compete”. The government is in the business of discrimination

  150. Al Gore says:

    At this point anyone still wasting time arguing over left/right, black/white, Fox/CNN, Bush/Obama etc is doomed and cant be helped.

    Its not going to get better. In fact its going to get much worse. Forget your future plans and dreams of big houses, fancy cars, and enjoying that fat nest egg you built for retirement. Its all going away.

    We are all going down and at the end it will be a horrific nightmare.

    Enjoy the interim. This is Disneyland compared to where we are headed.

    Sweet dreams.

  151. renter says:

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Hovnanian-trims-loss-for-apf-1103232840.html?x=0

    “Management blamed the weak sales trends in the May-July quarter on flagging consumer confidence due to everything from the loss of the tax credit stimulus and weak job creation, to volatile stock market prices and the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico”
    This struck me as funny. Hovnanian is blaming

  152. Confused in NJ says:

    144.Final Doom says:
    September 1, 2010 at 5:16 pm
    One in four lap dancers has a college degree

    And, three out of four Members of Congress are Lap Dancers.

  153. Mr Hyde says:

    I consider m y fellow bloggers here at NJREReport to be bubble connoisseurs of sorts. As such I offer you this fine gem:

    http://www.crackshackormansion.com/original.html

    Apparently Vancouver has gotten quite envious of the fine economic and finanial bubbles he US has mastered producing.

  154. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Ket that can’t be true.?

  155. Live Cams says:

    And stop using that lame leftist straw man to try to justify it. No one has told the Muslims that they can’t build a mosque. Those of us who oppose are saying “don’t do it THERE.” There are zoning ordinances across the nation that dictate where various businesses and other organizations can build. This is no different. There has already been discussion in NY about allowing this bunch to put the mosque somewhere else. But now that Obama has (again) stuck his nose in where it doesn’t belong, things are escalating out of control.

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