The rising foreclosure resistance movement

From CNBC:

U.S. lawyer forms foreclosure resistance movement

In a stately 19th century mansion in the middle of this former textile mill town, a local political scion has formed a mortgage foreclosure resistance movement.

O. Max Gardner III, 65, pioneered techniques in preventing big banks from foreclosing on loans and has taught his methods to 559 other lawyers in the last four years.

He teaches a sort of legal jiu jitsu: how to exploit opponents’ large size and disorganization for the benefit of consumers who do not want to give up their homes.

Once lawyers exit his training program, they stay on his expanding e-mail list, and are allowed access to an online document repository to share information. They work together to come up with new ways to slow down foreclosures and share strategies on other bankruptcy issues, communicating at a rate of 350 messages a day.

In the fragmented world of consumer bankruptcy law, where lawyers that represent consumers often work at small firms, Gardner, from his one-person law firm, is creating a sort of virtual law firm with hundreds of partners.

“My clients are desperate. They have insurmountable financial problems, and I’m able to give them a remedy and an answer and an assurance it’s going to be all right. That’s pretty rewarding stuff,” said Gardner, sitting at the desk in the tiny first floor office in his 9,000 square foot home.

To his admirers, Gardner is a sort of a folk hero.

“He’s Atticus Finch,” said April Charney, an attorney with Jacksonville Legal Aid in Florida, referring to the lawyer in the novel “To Kill a Mockingbird” who is seen as a model for lawyers protecting the disadvantaged.

Counsel opposing Gardner often view him as an agitator who gums up the bankruptcy process, said Joseph Greer III, a corporate bankruptcy lawyer in North Carolina who often works with creditors.

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185 Responses to The rising foreclosure resistance movement

  1. D says:

    Hey! 1st!

  2. Confused In NJ says:

    U.S. on track for “fiscal train wreck”: Roubini

  3. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends

  4. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Frist!

  5. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Watched this Ancient Aliens show on the History channel last night. Man that channel has really gone down the crapper. There’s not enough history out there you got to trot out these dudes for hours on end? If you want to have your “theory” be met with some credibility how about having your “theorists” not look like a bunch of circus freaks.

    All I could think of was how much these dudes reminded me of Geithner and Bernanke.

  6. Fast Eddie says:

    A friends neighbor had their house listed for sale on and off since early 2008. The original asking price was $699,000. A few months after listing, they had an offer for $640,000 which they refused. Of course; you know, they weren’t going to give it away. The house just sold recently. Sale price? $470,000.

  7. Lamar says:

    All is lost. The Visigoths are at the outskirts.

  8. a mad as hell reinvestor101 says:

    “A friends neighbor had their house listed for sale on and off since early 2008. The original asking price was $699,000. A few months after listing, they had an offer for $640,000 which they refused. Of course; you know, they weren’t going to give it away. The house just sold recently. Sale price? $470,000.”

    And just what is your purpose in telling this damn story? This is the story of a wuss who simply gave into the stinking vulture class. I’m not dropping my price by one damn cent and I will eventually get my damn house sold at my price. I’m not accepting any offers until I see the whites of the stinking buyer’s eyes and I will not be giving the damn house away.

  9. yo'me says:

    Hurry!hurry! Step right up.See the saddest show in town.

  10. Shore Guy says:

    Come on up for the rising.

  11. Shore Guy says:

    The more the policy makers mess with graavity, the more I fee like Leon Russell: A stranger in a strange land.

  12. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Shore [10],

    You mean, Held up Without a Gun?

  13. JJ says:

    Genworth had a stinker of a quarter last night, you mean writing mortgage insurance in Florida at market peak was a bad idea? Who would have thunk.

    The entire miss to expectations was driven by outsized charges in its mortgage insurance operations. Most of the shortfall reflected an $85 million pretax
    charge to reserves related to later stage delinquent loans in Florida, where a greater
    percentage of loans than previously expected are progressing to foreclosure. Coupled
    with lower cure rates, these developments makes us less confident in the reserve
    adequacy of this division, leading us to believe that domestic mortgage insurance will
    not return to break‐even results until 2012.

  14. dim says:

    The whole idea of a foreclosure resistance movement is amusing enough when incipient, but like the Tea Party thing, if it actually gains traction it becomes something repugnant. Despite the shameless criminality of the banks, the fact of the matter is that if the recourse of foreclosure is undermined, there really is no reason for lenders to offer mortgages backed by the property… and might just lead to a housing market nosedive that makes the past few years look rosy. Maybe it wouldn’t be a bad thing for people to have to actually save enough to buy property up front in cash. I suppose it’s a backhanded way to reduce the impact of the mortgage interest deduction… let’s just do away with mortgages!

  15. Shore Guy says:

    BC,

    That works too. Now, stepping into the Wayback Machine, how about this one: The Garden State Parkway Blues.

  16. leftwing says:

    “but like the Tea Party thing, if it actually gains traction it becomes something repugnant”

    Interesting comment in that Santelli is now ‘on’ again right now. Railing against Reich who must have said something regarding the upcoming elections along the lines of ‘trust those in power, don’t let these nutcases in’.

    Good tear by Santelli – ‘Average Americans may have some blemishes, but it’s darn well time they get a say in running their own government’

    Don’t know what’s repugnant about citizens becoming politically active and asking why and where their moneys are being spent by the permanently entrenched political class….

  17. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    GDP

    Inflation and federal spending. Green shoots for all;

    “The price index for gross domestic purchases, which measures prices paid by U.S. residents, increased 0.8 percent in the third quarter, compared with an increase of 0.1 percent in the second.”

  18. JJ says:

    I would love if we repealed the mortgage tax and fannie and freddie. An 8% non tax deductable 30 year mortgage would make home prices affordable.

  19. Shore Guy says:

    Or, for Clot, this other “way back” Springsteen song: We’ll All Man the Guns.

  20. JJ says:

    the average person is an idiot.

  21. Shore Guy says:

    “repealed the mortgage tax ”

    Just eliminate the mortgage tax deduction and prices will fall more than enough to compensate.

  22. Yikes says:

    Not sure if you guys saw this rant yesterday from JJ, but it’s positive, and frankly, we could use some of that. To preface: Who knows if this guy is full of it, or how much of this is true. Nobody believes this mess is over, or even close to it, but a modicum of positive news beats none.

    JJ says:
    October 28, 2010 at 1:04 pm

    I actually spoke to the chief economist at one of the largest banks in the world this week. Top 3 bank in world, can’t give name.

    Seems the baby boomer crowd who loves to spend every cent they make who are big buyers of trade up homes, vacation homes, travel, dining out, German cars, high end goods are spending again like drunken sailors.

    An 86% run up in their stocks in their 401Ks with a bubble in fixed income and commodities, makes them feel a heck of a lot richer now. The ones who did not lose jobs are pretty confident, they actually hated savings from summer 2008 till summer 2010 and are back spending.

    Biggest issue people were talking to me in Florida was what to do with their money, they have cash and feel stocks, bonds and commodities are overpriced and worried about the tax rates going up on cap gains. Lots were talking time to get back into real estate and a few have already bought properties. Few even said why let the money sit and .001 in money market might as well go on a vacation with the money.

    For those without an MBA or Masters in Economics, it takes two things to cause inflation Liquidity AND Velocity. Fed is trying to induce some inflation via injection of huge amounts of cash into system by buying trillions of dollars of bonds, holder sells his bond to fed then he has cash he has to re-invest or spend. Everyone has been sitting on cash. The Fed could inject ten trillion into economy without inflation if we all just took money and put it under our pillow and never spent it.

    However, with QE2 approaching and people starting to spend at top the masses will soon follow. However, sopping up excess cash out of system is tough. You need to jack rates quickly to make it to expensive to borrow and make CDs and Savings account pay 5% again to make you want to save.

    Credit Cards have loosened standards back to 2007 however not many using them even though they once again will give credit to anyone. Car companies giving lending deals again, mortgages are getting easier to get. What is slowing us down is the middle class is afraid to take on more debt and middle class says why buy now what will be cheaper next year. Well when Upper Class spending starts driving prices of houses, cars and electronics up middle class will start using that cheap credit to buy before they get priced out which means off to the races with inflation.

    Velocity once it is going is crazy. I sell my house I buy trade up house, trade up house guy buys trade up house, we all go to home depot hire people to fix them, buy new furniture, invite people over to see new houses and along the way everyone is spending money. Heck I need a new benz or beemer for my trade up home and how would it look if I did not go on vacation to Atlantis or Disney now that I live in a better neighborhood. The Fed has huge amount of liquidity out there and lending standards are relaxed once this ball gets rolling it is 1999 or 2005 all over again.

  23. Yikes says:

    what I don’t get about baby boomers/retirees … if you’re 65, why would you NOW want to go and buy your ‘dream house?’

    who wants that much room when they’re old and it’s just two people?

    If anything, I want to downsize when I retire. Hopefully driving a better car and traveling more, but definitely not owning an enormous 6,000 sq foot cavernous, empty palace.

  24. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Yikes [22],

    “The Fed could inject ten trillion into economy without inflation if we all just took money and put it under our pillow and never spent it.”

    You don’t need inflation to induce hyper-inflation. Confidence/fear doesn’t give a rats ass about velocity.

  25. JJ says:

    Canada has no mortgage tax deduction and comparable homes to US sell for 20% less to make for lack of tax deduction. Cancel Mortgage deduction and on day one homes will be worth 20% less. I love it.

    Shore Guy says:
    October 29, 2010 at 8:46 am

    “repealed the mortgage tax ”

    Just eliminate the mortgage tax deduction and prices will fall more than enough to compensate.

  26. Yikes says:

    This is hilarious. I don’t fault the employees for gaming the system. You might have done the same thing in their spot. People love to exploit loopholes. Hope it was good for them. But nothing lasts forever, so this who missed out will be kicking themselves.

    I blame the idiots (ie, ‘district officials’) who let this go on for so long unchecked. And if said idiots get voted back into office … well …

    Confused In NJ says:
    October 28, 2010 at 5:46 pm

    Cosmetic surgery costs for Buffalo Public Schools employees have skyrocketed from less than $1 million in 2004 to nearly $9 million last year.

    The vast majority of those procedures — nine out of 10 of them — were chemical peels, laser hair removal, skin rejuvenation and other skin treatments. All of them were elective procedures that required a doctor’s approval.

    The number of procedures tripled during the same period, with more than 8,000 of them performed for school employees in 2009. Because the district is self-insured for its cosmetic surgery rider, taxpayers cover the entire cost directly, district officials said.

  27. JJ says:

    Explain. If people have tons of money in bank, but no one is buying. You can’t raise prices, in fact you may have to lower prices. Back in late 2008 and early 2009 my friend who sells Yachts, Motor Homes and High End Cars to the wealthy could not sell any and cut prices below his cost as inventory was rising. None of his old money clients was in financial problems, they had a crisis of confidence. None wanted to buy as was afraid of future of economy and they saw prices dropping on high end products so was frozen from making purchase as why buy today what will be cheaper next month. Their cash pile rose from October 2008 till Summer 2009 but prices fell, why the amount of cash or relaxed spending standards alone can’t cause inflation until people start spending again. Or Scrodge sitting on a pile of money does not cause prices to rise, a redneck toothless powerball winner spending his 100 million on gold toliet seats and buying all his relatives homes and cars gets the inflation ball rolling.

    Mr Wantanapolous says:
    October 29, 2010 at 8:55 am

    Yikes [22],

    “The Fed could inject ten trillion into economy without inflation if we all just took money and put it under our pillow and never spent it.”

    You don’t need inflation to induce hyper-inflation. Confidence/fear doesn’t give a rats ass about velocity.

  28. Shore Guy says:

    “why would you NOW want to go and buy your ‘dream house?”

    It is called, “I have wanted this my whole life and, before I die, I am going to have THIS THING. Whatever “this thing” is. Whether a car, like in American Beauty, or the watch, or the house, or the whatever. It is caused by people looking at old age and then death approaching and wondering, “what hav I been working for all these years?”

    Now, whether they should be focused on things, is another matter entirely; however, WHY they are, is very understandable.

  29. chicagofinance says:

    PGC: I really appreciate this link…..it is a good point of reference….it is going to be shared with some Kool-Aid drinkers that need to see it……it is hard not to be the shot messenger, so better it from another source……

    Fabius Maximus says:
    October 28, 2010 at 10:22 pm
    Chi,
    saw this and though of you.

    “Today’s endowments and their fluctuations exist in a budgetary fantasyland; from the schools’ point of view, individual gifts are literally worthless. It is like writing a check to the Department of Defense.”

  30. dim says:

    16 – oh, a politician who claims that he will represent “the people” (or as more often said, “the American people”)? How refreshing. Wouldn’t it be great if saying so would mean he didn’t turn out to be as much a total wh*re as the rest of them?

  31. chicagofinance says:

    JJ: need to grab the beer, but I have vowed not to eat anything from Capital Grille again….it is overpriced chain-restaurant chemical-laced crap…..glorified Cheesecake Factory…

  32. JJ says:

    http://www.johnstreet.com/drinks.html

    John Street Bar we can get drunk cheap and see what middle class is up to. I picked a good time to get out of Genworth yesterday morning.

    chicagofinance says:
    October 29, 2010 at 9:06 am

    JJ: need to grab the beer, but I have vowed not to eat anything from Capital Grille again….it is overpriced chain-restaurant chemical-laced crap…..glorified Cheesecake Factory…

  33. Confused In NJ says:

    New law, mortgages must be held to term by the bank issuing the mortgage. Problem solved.

  34. Shore Guy says:

    Confused,

    Just forbid the dicing of the mortgages and even securitization becomes less of a problem.

  35. evildoc says:

    a mad as hell reinvestor101 says:
    October 29, 2010 at 8:05 am

    ——-“A friends neighbor had their house listed for sale on and off since early 2008. The original asking price was $699,000. A few months after listing, they had an offer for $640,000 which they refused. Of course; you know, they weren’t going to give it away. The house just sold recently. Sale price? $470,000.”

    ——And just what is your purpose in telling this damn story? This is the story of a wuss who simply gave into the stinking vulture class. I’m not dropping my price by one damn cent and I will eventually get my damn house sold at my price. I’m not accepting any offers until I see the whites of the stinking buyer’s eyes and I will not be giving the damn house away.——

    Great Parody!!!

  36. Mike says:

    hope they stop the mortgage tax deduction! Why spend a dollar to get back 25 cents. so to compensate prices must drop another 20 percent on top of the other 20 percent they still need to drop. I’m buying for cash.

  37. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    JJ [27],

    Well, confidence does not give a hoot about your friend or old money clients. It’s all about capital flows, which can turn on a dime. Once the currency is viewed as monopoly money, the world could lose faith, rush into alternative areas. A fart could lead to an explosion. Will it happen? It’s certainly a possibilty with the drunks who are working the printing machines.

  38. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [14] dim

    “like the Tea Party thing, if it actually gains traction it becomes something repugnant . . .”

    Yeah, the nerve of those people, wanting limited government, rule of law, limits on wasteful spending, an end to junta-style rule, and rational taxation. Who do the fcuk they think they are???

  39. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [36] mike

    If they drop the mortgage deduction, look for crafty tax lawyers to figure out a way to make it deductible in another way. Believe me when I tell you that there are contingency plans in place.

  40. Shore Guy says:

    Indeed, Nom. Where did THOSE THINGS ever get any nation?

  41. Shore Guy says:

    “contingency plans”

    No doubt. Still, once the mortgage interest deduction goes, and with AMT reachiong further and further down, to grab those not-well-heeled-enough to find ways around the taxes, it is an easy move to a flat tax. I bety that a flat federal tax of around 20% would do the trick.

  42. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [33] confused

    “New law, mortgages must be held to term by the bank issuing the mortgage. Problem solved.”

    Since the bank’s ability to lend is limited by its capital, that effectively places a cap on bank lending. Suddenly the bank hits its capital limit and can’t lend until it raises more deposits. The only way to do that is to offer higher rates on core deposits, which translates into higher mortgage rates (assuming that the industry rises together). It would be assymetric in that stronger players could outlast weaker ones, but once everyone hits their wall, then lending stops until deposits flood in.

    You also effectively gut CRA because the banks won’t want to make low quality loans anymore. By reducing their lending, they can reduce their CRA assessment area, thus they reduce their CRA obligation.

    Then there are the warehouse, or non-retail, credit lines that banks offer to mortgage brokers. Since the brokers don’t hold the mortgage, that dries up as well.

    Finally, what do you propose for nonbank lenders? Under your scenario, I can easily see them becoming predominant, and the most likely source of their funding is foreign capital. Structured correctly, it would qualify for the portfolio interest exclusion, meaning that the Treasury is doubly screwed. We deduct our interest from our mortgages but the entities collecting interest are exempt from taxation.

    Good thought, but it requires a lot more bank capital than currently exists.

  43. Sean Irving says:

    #5

    HeHe, you may not like the programming, but “that channel” is actually riding all time highs… Exact opposite of the “crapper”.

  44. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Funny seeing the name O. Max Gardner again. Something of a legend in the legal field, kinda like Kaiser Soze.

  45. Anon E. Moose says:

    Deadbeats of the World, UNITE!

  46. Juice Box says:

    Mortgage interest deduction was about 100 Billion last year a drop in the bucket compared to the other Government subsidies. For the last 70 years the US government has been subsidizing home ownership via Fannie, Freddie, FHA etc with long term 30 years mortgages. Before World War II, would-be home buyers faced huge obstacles. Banks demanded 50% down payments for mortgages that would last just five or six years and then a nice big fat balloon payment. Homeownership remained around 40% for a long time and only ebgan to rise after the government intervened it hit about 69% before the bubble in Home Ownership and Debt galore popped.

  47. Anon E. Moose says:

    Dim [14];

    Disagree with your gratuitous swipe at teh Tea Parties, but as for “Housing market Nosedive”: Bring It On!

  48. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [33] confused

    Also, under your rule, assuming that it applies only to federally-regulated banks, I would foresee private equity flooding into this area under the auspices of state regulation, which would be desperate for mortgage lenders and promise to regulate with a light touch.

    Recall several years ago, Georgia passed a law that imposed 3rd party liability on mortgage holders. Other states were considering the same, and I recall I had to analyze the state laws for 3rd party liability. The rating agencies then came out and said that they would not rate tranches with GA mortgages in them. The GA legislature quickly undid the law because it would have prevented securitizations, and thus ended bank mortgage lending in the state. Other state law initiatives died on the vine.

  49. Anon E. Moose says:

    Nom [44];

    LOL

    “Kaiser Soze” – accurate, but the flower children didn’t idolize him in their hormone-soaked teen years like they did ‘Atticus Finch’.

  50. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Interesting that Max Gardner and Dim want to bring back the concept of the Paris Commune. What I find deliciously ironic is that such a movement has the potential to be so destabilizing that Congress and Obama would have to put it down like a rabid dog. Even Komrade Kucinich would vote to squash it.

  51. Shore Guy says:

    “a drop in the bucket compared to the other Government subsidies. ”

    Is it your position that because there are multiple subsidies that none should be eliminated? The mortgage interest deduction is just one of may unnecessary complications to the tax code that helps hoodwink people into believing that they are getting a deal, when they are not. Better to just go flat. Don’g give me deductions for giving to charaties, etc. Heck, with the money Mrs. Shore and I save in tax preperation (our returns run hundreds of pages), we will have morte to give away, should we so choose.

  52. JJ says:

    So Prince just announced he is playing New Meadowlands Stadium. Jets/Giants players who can be easily 6 foot five inches 350 pounds look like ants from up top as the stadium is so huge.

    Will Prince look like an amoeba? Jesus watching little Prince play from up top of stadium is like standing on top of Empire State building trying to look at a piece of gum on the sidewalk it is just nuts.

  53. Unexpected HEHEHE says:

    “South Korea: North Korea opens fire at border”

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101029/ap_on_re_as/as_koreas_tensions

    The Chinese are watching you Mr Bernanke

  54. Anon E. Moose says:

    Evildoc [35];

    “I’m not accepting any offers until I see the whites of the stinking buyer’s eyes and I will not be giving the damn house away.”

    If a seller wants to behave that way I’m perfectly happy buying from their estate when they are DEAD. Gramps thinks he can outlive me? Only if a runaway bus gets involved.

  55. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    For those keeping score, it’s the friday before Election Day, and IRS has not released the expat report. It definitely isn’t coming out before Election Day. I don’t plan to check again until Nov. 3rd.

    If it doesn’t come out by Nov. 4th, I submit that they will suppress it until the 3rd quarter report and report all the data together. And if that happens, and the number is under 500, I call BS. That will be proof to me that State is suppressing the data.

  56. Shore Guy says:

    “So Prince just announced he is playing New Meadowlands Stadium”
    I don’t know how I canhold back my excitement. Oh, wait, yes I do, wet tissue paper should do it.

  57. Juice Box says:

    re: #51 – Shore in the context of mortgages FHA, Fannie and Freddie are subsidies.

    But to your point about deductions and subsidies, I would like Congress to pass The Fair Treatment for Precious Metals Investors Act which has been reintroduced several times since 1994 and fails to make it out of the finance commitees.

    This is to amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to treat gold, silver, platinum, and palladium, in either coin or bar form, in the same manner as equities and mutual funds for purposes of the maximum capital gains rate for individuals.

  58. make money says:

    http://tinyurl.com/2f4mmme

    This is looting. When gambles go wrong then everyone has to sacrifice but when they pick winners then they “earn” millions in bonuses. The looting will continue until there is nothing left and then there is only one thing to do light a match. Fcuking parasites.

  59. Lamar says:

    left (16)-

    Barn door open, horses gone. Back to watching Dancing With the Stars and fantasy football. The banksters have almost fully looted their institutions on the backs of the taxpayer.

    “Don’t know what’s repugnant about citizens becoming politically active and asking why and where their moneys are being spent by the permanently entrenched political class…”

  60. Lamar says:

    BC (17)-

    Much like my waistline, the inflation is in all the wrong places, too.

    Print, default, deny. If Eraserhead wants to redesign the currency, they should place that phrase on everything from the penny to the 10K bill.

  61. Lamar says:

    Shore (34)-

    No securitization, other than covered bonds.

    Encourage and incentivize portfolio lending.

    Institute those two things, and the only people who will be interested in mortgage lending are those who know the business and know what they’re doing.

    Problem solved.

    BTW…the above will never happen.

  62. Unexpected HEHEHE says:

    Juice,

    You’ll see them taxing precious metals more heavily before you’ll ever see than one pass.

  63. Juice Box says:

    re #60 – That ad is against the Republican candidate Dan Hall a Protestant minister, Hockey player and CEO of a non-profit. He may not be a Catholic but he sure acts like one, he has eight kids.

  64. Mr Hyde says:

    42 Nom

    It would also seem to put a soft ceiling on home prices as any attempted runup in home prices would be naturally capped by the capital limits of the banks. The only way to generate a housing bubble in that scenario is through base money supply expansion in which a fair portion of the expanded base money flows into deposits.
    I would consider that a good thing, as it prevents home price speculation for all but the “real” RE speculators who have wads of cash.

  65. Juice Box says:

    re # – 63 – so I gather the 30,535 tons held in reserve by 108 Central Banks around the world is for personal enjoyment and consumption and is not a capital asset of any sort?

  66. Unexpected HEHEHE says:

    Juice,

    The Central Banks are just avid collectors

  67. Al Gore says:

    Wantan,

    AEM is on a tear. I cant believe my order didnt fill at 69.

  68. Double Down says:

    +1 leftwing

    “Don’t know what’s repugnant about citizens becoming politically active and asking why and where their moneys are being spent by the permanently entrenched political class.”

  69. Al Gore says:

    Voting Libertarian on Nov 2nd. Heres a list of NJ neocons/globalist scum that voted for Cap and Trade in June 2009.

    Frank Lobiondo
    Chris Smith
    Leonard Lance

    Get these a holes out. Along with every other piece of garbage in DC.

  70. Shore Guy says:

    From above:

    In New Jersey, five members of the Legislature are employees of their labor unions — Mr. Sweeney, Mr. Norcross and three Assembly Democrats: Thomas P. Giblin, the business manager of an engineers’ local; Joseph V. Egan, also a business manager of an electrical workers’ local; and Wayne P. DeAngelo, the assistant business manager of another electrical workers’ local. A 2007 study by the National Conference of State Legislatures found just nine lawmakers who worked for unions in the rest of the country.

    New Jersey has many more legislators who are union members, including one current shop steward, Assemblyman Nelson T. Albano of the United Food and Commercial Workers, and several former stewards or union officers.

  71. Shore Guy says:

    first snip is in mod.

  72. dim says:

    Sorry, I just don’t buy the actual “tea party” candidates’ rhetoric. Looks to me as if they are just using public discontent with corrupt institutions to empower and enrich themselves much the same way social conservatives used race and homophobia in recent elections. But it’s good to see such optimism here, maybe your hope will lead to change you can believe in! And back to the housing, if the market has been hopelessly compromised by decades of bad policy, patchwork tweaks will only make things worse. Or at least I haven’t heard any policy solutions that make sense. Though the whole “tear the system down and start over” theory doesn’t sound any worse than what we have.

  73. Lamar says:

    he (67)-

    Our CB, the most sophisticated in history, has pleasured itself by collecting over a trillion dollars’ worth of worthless, fraudulent securities. Even better, they have not examined them to determine the value of the underlying collateral.

    “The Central Banks are just avid collectors.”

  74. Shore Guy says:

    THIS will make flying all the more fun:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/10/29/security.concern/?hpt=T1

    Just show up at the airport n@ked and without bags and you might pass the screening that they are going to impose now.

  75. Shore Guy says:

    Clot,

    It doesn’t matter. They are suitable for framing, and quite pretty.

  76. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    He [67],

    How’s this for collectibles?

    http://jsmineset.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/clip_image00146.jpg

    Al [68],

    To the moon.

  77. Al Gore says:

    “Currently, we anticipate that the market is also expecting roughly $100 billion / month, but what’s contributed to the sell-off in Treasuries over the past couple of weeks is a subtle softening of the market’s call for a substantial program to a more data-dependent, fine-tuned approach. This has reduced the certainty of what will actually be announced, but if the Fed now delivers on the expectation of $100 billion / month, the slide in 10y Treasury yields should then reverse, in our view, and 10y notes should come right back down to the 2.35–2.50% range (a 15-30bp rally from here).

    Further, while it can be argued that the implicit monetization of US government debt may ultimately prove inflationary (in fact, we like being positioned in 10s20s inflation breakeven steepeners to hedge this view), the initial impact on yields is very clearly bullish, in our view. Investors who have reduced their longs in recent weeks will add back to those longs, and other investors that were previously on the sidelines will get back in. Net, we like buying what the Fed is buying and are bullish on Treasuries.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/how-front-run-feds-upcoming-soma-limit-increase

  78. Outofstater says:

    #76 Naked? No need. Just enclose those new scanners and convert them to devices that automatically detonate any explosive anyone is carrying. Ka-boom!! When you hear “Attention standby passengers. We now have a seat available on the flight to Minneapolis.” Followed by “Clean-up on aisle three” you’ll know we just got one of the bad guys.

  79. JJ says:

    Credit-default swaps on Genworth’s debt surged to the highest since Oct. 7. Contracts on Genworth climbed about 30.4 basis points to 285.7, according to data provider CMA. That means investors would pay $285,700 annually to protect $10 million of Genworth’s debt for five years.

    I love bad news, too much good news in bond market lately.

  80. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [70] Al

    Guess we part ways a bit here. I am not completely adverse to something that addresses pollution and fossil fuel use, and any scheme that places the burden on the producer/user is preferable to sticking the taxpayer with the bill. Cap and Trade is probably not the best solution, but we have to do something.

  81. RayC says:

    Tough to trust salesmen, eh? This weeks Westfield paper, The GoLeader, has an ad for a local Coldwell Banker realtor. It says he makes deals, not excuses, then lists 16 properties with pictures, a closing date, and a list price. Not the final sale price, because I looked up 3 of them, and they were all lower than the list price. When you “closing date” and see a price with it, you think it would be the actual sale price. You’d be wrong. Of course, I am just making excuses, and not deals.

  82. Mr Hyde says:

    This is a nice change

    (COLUMBUS, Ohio) — In response to Wells Fargo’s statement acknowledging that it “made mistakes” and that affidavits in 55,000 foreclosures filed by the bank did not “adhere” to the law, Ohio Attorney General Richard Cordray offers the following statement:

    “The big mortgage servicers and financial firms continue to demonstrate their belief that they do not need to play by the same rules as everyone else who uses our court system. The suggestion by Wells Fargo and its colleagues at several other national firms that they can cure fraudulent testimony by simply refiling new affidavits and continuing to proceed toward foreclosures shows they do not recognize the seriousness of the problem they have created. There is no simple ‘do-over’ for false testimony that will be likely to avoid sanctions and penalties imposed by the courts. Their brazen efforts to minimize their financial exposure by sweeping these problems under the rug are an insult to the justice system in this country. These disclosures by Wells Fargo will now become the focus for a new prong of our on-going investigation.”

  83. All "H-Train" Hype says:

    Shore Guy (84):
    That house looks like my 1980s component stereo system. How ugly.

  84. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [78] shore

    To me (a Bay Stater), there is something wrong with the USS JFK going to Portland.

    Ironically, I was able to confirm with my sister that the Nompound in Maine is and will be open to immediate family. I have taken small measures to start to build up our self-sustaining ability there, and will discuss with them what I can bring to the table (besides guns, ammo, hand tools, and canning/brewing supplies).

    So unless and until I get property elsewhere, in a Nompound venture of the type I envisioned, the answer to the question Got Nompound? is YES!

  85. Shore Guy says:

    Before heading back to the salt mine, this heartwarming story of a couple renewing their wedding vows:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/world-south-asia-11652040

    Stu and Gator,

    You like to travel. Perhaps on your 8th aniv, this would be a nice place to renew your vows and plant a tree. They seem like friendly folk.

  86. wtf says:

    Cap and trade seemed to work well for acid rain. I wonder if “Al Gore” is pro-acid rain.

  87. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [64] juice

    I guess that kinda clears it up. Gatewaypundit mentioned it, so I went to the catholic site, but I was utterly nonplussed about why the democrats in Minnesota would be taking pot shots at catholics (and too busy to try to figure out why).

  88. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [91] wtf

    No, Al isn’t pro-acid rain, and neither am I. But any sort of pollution control measure has the potential to be a job-killer, and the trick is how to move one ball forward without moving the other one backwards. Fact is, a lot of folks that lose their jobs in the name of clean water won’t much care that the water is cleaner, and will vote out the ones that cost them their jobs. Short term, self-centered thinking is a pitfall of democracy, and one that both sides of the aisle are quite adept at exploiting.

    I would have a lot more respect for The One if he re-opened Kyoto dialogue, but insisted that the real polluters (and we are not atop that list) pull their share of the load, and get some agreement on how best to back it up, sanctionwise. If EUR/US/CAN threatened to pull out of WTO and impose sanctions unless Asia got its act together, that would be a huge first step.

  89. Al Gore says:

    85.

    Nom,

    Re: Cap and Trade.

    The bill is not for addressing pollution. Its an effort to collect a carbon tax. These treasonous bastards are really something else. Do not trust anything these a holes propose. Theres a reason my handle is Al Gore and its because I represent the biggest, slimiest, scum bag that frequents the lecture circuit.

  90. Confused In NJ says:

    CHANDLER, Ariz. – The gruesome case of a man who was stabbed and beheaded in a suburban Phoenix apartment has police investigating whether the killing is potentially the most extreme example of Mexican drug cartel violence spilling over the border.

  91. Lamar says:

    And all this time, I thought “cap and trade” had something to do with Steve Phillips, Bobby Bonilla and the Mets.

  92. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Shore,

    This one’s for you. Now I gotta get back to work before the baby wakes up.

    http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/cartoons/20101018_ink_tank?pg=26

  93. Lamar says:

    Just because a guy in Phoenix gets stabbed and beheaded, we can’t jump to conclusions that it was a cartel hit. ;)

    Somehow, having this kind of crime seems more honest to me than having our country pretend it’s not a complete Third World jerkwater, while TPTB embezzle it blind.

  94. Nicholas says:

    Nom,

    I’m going to take the other side of the argument, not because I agree that Asian’s should be able to pollute more but because I think that Asians (read China, Brazil, etc..) have a completely different take on the situation.

    Lets say that the US-Europe polluted willy-nilly for that last umpteen years and we gained a superior edge in terms of production and economy. We burned fossil fuels like there was no tomorrow and became advanced/rich. Now we sit at the top and say “Hey you developing countries don’t use fossil fuels to become rich like us, we should all stop using dirty fuels together” To them it sounds like we are trying to keep them from the riches of the industrialized world. Apparently it sounds offensive to “emerging” countries to tell them not to use the same methods and resources that we used to become rich and powerful.

    I can clearly see from our smog covered cities and plastic bag lined rivers that we didn’t make good choices over the years. Cancer rates have risen among humans and all the oysters have nearly died in the Chesapeak Bay. How do you communicate that to these emerging countries without looking like a complete buffoon is beyond me.

  95. jcer says:

    I agree Al, not only is it a carbon tax, but the banksters and other free market manipulators are the ones who will collect. It is a scam, it is a scam to allow GS,JPM, MS, et al to collect tax dollars from businesses that actually produce something.

    We have seen how well the so called “Open Markets” worked with the mortgage mess, with a market for carbon credits do any better? We need to work on polluting less, but I think a simple tax and then credits for reducing pollution or doing some other environmentally helpful thing is much more prudent and less likely to be abused by america’s greediest.

    I agree that Kyoto and of course going after China and trying to sanction them for their environmental abuses would be a great course to follow and be politically popular here in the US. But alas pols almost never have our best interests at heart.

  96. JJ says:

    Damm Mexicans by me always mix things up as their English is terrible. Maybe he was told he needs some Head, and mixed things up.

    Lamar says:
    October 29, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    Just because a guy in Phoenix gets stabbed and beheaded, we can’t jump to conclusions that it was a cartel hit. ;)

  97. jcer says:

    Nicholas, the argument goes that 50-75-100 yrs ago we didn’t know the damage we were causing and it is a global problem. Today we know it’s an issue and as such we are all going to deal with what happens, where ever it happens on earth. As such we should use all the tools we have to mitigate the risk.

  98. Mr Hyde says:

    Nicholas 99

    Let me play a devils advocate to your point. It took the last 100 years of industrial development to reach our current point where the majority of industrial activities can be highly automated. If efficiency and effective industrialization is the goal then it doesnt make sense to go the chinese route. You could instead go the japanese route.

    The problem is, it is not industrialization per se that these nations are after, but increased income and wealth generated from large scale industrial employment. Efficient and automated industrialization will not generate anything close to the same level of employment as large scale human based automation as pursued by china.

    The real catch in all of this is that they want to use large scale industrialization to make themselves wealthier, yet at the global scale its a zero sum game.

    The argument is that they need to pollute to advance is a false one. They want the quickest easiest route which is the most polluting one and the least efficient in the end.

  99. Nicholas says:

    jcer,

    There have been a few studies on tax/surcharge/fee vs. credits/coupons to see which one is more effective. I will give you an example.

    In one study, researchers set up their own grocery store and gave shoppers the same amount of money based upon how many members of their family they were buying for. They discounted the price of healthy foods such as fresh vegetables. What they found was that indeed people bought more of the healthy foods since they were cheaper but with the money that they saved they just spent it on other high calorie processed foods instead.

    When they repeated the exercise and put a tax on the hig calorie, processed foods they found that this drastically altered the way people purchased food.

    I think that if you are really going to change the way manufacturers pollute then you are going to have to tax them for their pollution. Historically what happens is a tax is set and it is rarely revised so we are almost guaranteed to have problems updating the amount of taxes a corporation should have to pay for pollution. One of the suggested methods around this is to create a market for pollution and then trade “credits” for the right to pollute. The government only has to set the ceiling on pollution, not the actual cost per individual company.

    I see your point of not wanting to put that in the hands of bankers/wall street. I would hope that those taxes/credits would be managed not by the open market but by a regulator in charge of the process. If that “regulator” turns out to be a commercial firm, I will grab my pitchfork just as quickly as the rest.

    I don’t necessarily think that cap/trade is such a bad thing.

  100. Nicholas says:

    I should state this strongly: I don’t think that they should pollute.

    I do understand that it seems a bit high-handed for us to be telling them not to pollute because its bad for all of us when we just got done doing the same thing.

    The argument is that they need to pollute to advance is a false one. They want the quickest easiest route which is the most polluting one and the least efficient in the end.

    My point is that we used the quickest and easiest route (most pollution) and now we are saying “please don’t use the quick and easy route since it will cause us all to suffer”. I can see where this seems like a game of king of the hill but as soon as we get up the soft slope then we tell everyone else that the rules have changed and the king will only be crowned if the hill is taken by climbing the mountainous portion of the hill.

    This is the fundamental problem that emerging nations are having when we ask them not to pollute.

  101. Lamar says:

    As we have entered the end of days, it matters not how much we pollute.

    James Watt was right.

    “If the troubles from environmentalists cannot be solved in the jury box or at the ballot box, perhaps the cartridge box should be used.”

  102. Alap says:

    Anyone know a mortgage company that would approve a mortgage on a property where there is pending lawsuits against the HOA currently?

  103. yo'me says:

    How about third world countries getting rewarded with billions of dollars,suing the developed countries,for all the years of pollution they created.This money is supposed to help them structure a better fight on pollution.Good thing Copenhagen agreement ended with no meaningful binding agreement.

  104. Nicholas says:

    You mean the HOA has a pending lawsuit against the current homeowners? Why would the homeowners have a lawsuit against the HOA?

    I’m confused now.

    My guess is that the HOA doesn’t have a lawsuit against the house, just the homeowner. They might be able to put a lean on the house until the debt is paid.

    Why not find out how much the HOA thinks that they are due and make a written offer to settle when the home is sold. Just get the HOA to write a letter on what is owed, contact the current homeowner and get them to write a letter what they will pay, and then either pay the difference or go back to the HOA and ask them to take a haircut.

    Just step in as mediator and then provide the documentation to the mortgage company.

  105. Alap says:

    3 separate homeowners have a pending lawsuit against the HOA and the builder of the community due to drainage issues which is causing leaking in the basements and mold issues, according to the lawsuit.

  106. Al Gore says:

    106.

    The Green movement was subverted by communists a long time ago.

    It may be a wild fantasy but I hope for the day when every piece of garbage is removed from Congress and replaced by regular citizens (who were born in the US). Then rational people can do rational work in accordance to the Constitution not perverted misrepresentations.

    All other avenues lead to civil war.

    Now back to reality.

    Ga Ga Ga Gold B_tchez!

  107. Al Gore says:

    As for Democrats on Nov 2nd. Go have a conversation with Frank Pallone. That piece of garbage never had a real job and is as dumb as a bag of hammers. That bastard had the nerve to brag that he was responsible for creating the Obamacare legislation.

    Just go talk to the moron. He’s Einstein, trust me.

  108. joyce says:

    (104)
    I don’t understand why people keep saying, “well only if we had a good, decent, strong, independent regulator… it would be better”. Haven’t we seen time and time again, how the regulated companies capture the regulator? If not by some other means, they will simply bribe them.

  109. jcer says:

    Nicholas, it is going to be a market and the honest question is who is running it? We are mincing words here but if it was set up in such a way with minimal overhead, that a government agency basically is selling the right to pollute and taking the proceeds and investing them in green energy, research, and pollution remediation it makes sense.

    But like many “good ideas” it will be abused unless it is regulated. It can only work if proper rules are in place. I just see it being endlessly gamed for profit and it being a detriment to an already fragile industrial/economic complex.

  110. Nicholas says:

    Yo’me,

    We didn’t pay reparations to the Native Americans’ for the theft/damage that we did to their lands and we won’t pay reparations to other countries for nuking the pacific or our fossil-fuel induced binge. That isn’t the answer.

    What is more likely the answer is to clean up our act first. To start instituting policies that pull that pollution back out of the environment. Frankly, I’m tired of hearing scientific reports saying that “no living thing” exists in the Baltimore inner harbor waters.

  111. joyce says:

    (114)
    Yup all we need is to put rules in place.

    The tax code has 6000+ pages of rules. And that’s not gamed at all.

  112. Al Gore says:

    114.

    Jcer,

    One of the best energy plans I have seen come forth recently was the Pickens plan. His plan was to shift domestic natural gas production to motor vehicle use and shifting electricity production to wind. Domestic oil production would be used for plastic/chemical production and we have plenty of oil production to cover that.

    With a 500 billion a year in trade deficit secondary to oil imports elimination of that would have put us on the path to energy independence. Of course the 787 billion economic stimulus was pissed down the drain and here we are.

    Doesnt matter. Its all about gold, oil, and the US dollar (world reserve currency). We will lose that status and with it our standard of living.

  113. Mr Hyde says:

    Nicholas

    My point is that The US and Europe were the cutting edge of industrialization. If the 3rd world wants to follow that then fine, but no longer means polluting wildly. The other issue at hand, the generation of wealth, only happened because the industrial nations leveraged their advanced industrial capacity to sell to the rest of the world. Industrialization is not a magic bullet. It worked for the Chinese because they said “to hell with quality or standards”, and undercut everyone else so significantly that they found their way into the market.
    How exactly is some african nation or other 3rd world country going to leverage slave labor and a lack of environmental regulations to undercut china? How are they going to undercut the 20 other nations trying the same thing? In any case it is debatable as to whether you are hurting you population more then helping by pursuing such policies.

  114. Nicholas says:

    Jcer,

    Yeah, you and I do seem to be in agreement but I don’t know of a better way to cause companies to be held accountable for their own pollution. I agree that that corporations seem to have gotten a strong foothold in government and associated regulators.

    In this arena I think that there is going to be a big societal shift. The 30 something crowd that I hang out with seem to be much more eco-conscious and are taking active steps to change habits and behaviors. There are like 3-4 people from my work that bicycle to work nearly every day. I have lost count of the number of hybrid cars in the parkinglot. I myself, recylce nearly everything and compost kitchen scraps. I use that compost to grow flowers and vegetables in my 10’x10′ back yard.

    I shared one of my june-bearing strawberry plants with one of my friends who isn’t a gardner, you should have seen their face light up. It was like christmas had come early.

  115. Mr Hyde says:

    Al

    Any attempt to use significant amounts of intermittent power sources such as wind or solar would require us to essentially rebuild the US power grid. That isnt necessarily a bad thing but a substantial additional cost and one that would need to be undertaken before any large scale intermittent sources could be readily brought online.

  116. Nicholas says:

    How exactly is some african nation or other 3rd world country going to leverage slave labor and a lack of environmental regulations to undercut china?

    Apparently, a good way to leverage slave labor and lack of environmental regulations is to clear cut Brazilian rain forest and then plant sugar cane. Next step is to call into question subsidies on European sugar (sugar beets) and drive them from the market.

    Southern Europe has been producing sugar for, I don’t know, 200 years? Now they don’t produce any sugar and Brazil is the #1 exporter. This happens with the clear cutting /burning of the rain-forest and fossil-fuel agri-buisness.

  117. Al Gore says:

    120.

    Hyde,

    Thats exactly what we needed the 787 billion stimulus for. I wanted Obama to succeed and he was heavily pressured to upgrade the grid with that stimulus but his puppet masters prevailed.

    The solutions are there and readily available. It can be done but every effort is made to bring the country down not up.

    The country needs a revolution.

  118. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Okay, I am sorry, once again, for provoking off topic debate.

    Now for something completely different:

    Homebrewing GTG date has been set.

    Sunday, Nov. 7th at Maison De Plume in lovely Brigadoon. Around noonish to whenever we finish.

    The august and learned Prof. Morpheus has promised to introduce the class to the finer points of all-grain brewing. In the event Morpheus cannot attend, we will probably make an extract brew (something this simple mind can grasp).

    This is a working GTG, but there should be an opportunity to stand around, drink commercial beer, and shoot the sh-it.

    Space is limited; reply to nomdeplumenj@gmail.com if you are interested in attending. Morpheus expects it will take around 5 hours to get everything done.

  119. Al Gore says:

    123.

    Nom,

    Rifle show and tell?

  120. Mr Hyde says:

    Al 122
    The real solution is a nuclear power generation core with renewables on top of that

  121. Mr Hyde says:

    Nickolas 121

    That is a race to the bottom. short terms gains at long term costs.

  122. Mr Hyde says:

    SO lets hear the resident gurus rip this appart. It sounds like a good plan to me.

    Let’s Talk About A Bank Holiday

    Let us pre-suppose that Obama grows a sack this afternoon and today after the market closes announces it.

    What does it mean?

    A few things happen:

    1. All banks are closed as of the close of business and will not re-open unless they’re certified clean and solvent. No mergers, no take-unders, you either live or die.

    2. ATMs, Checks and ordinary “course of business” payment streams are honored. Account transfers and anything that looks like one is refused. The point here is to prevent runs on solvent institutions, which would otherwise result. Since nobody knows at this point who’s solvent or not, you lock the system for other than ordinary course-of-business actions. The Fed does what it is supposed to do – intermediation of the payment system. There is already a contingency plan and process for this – they know how to do it, and both can and will – they just need to be ordered to do so by the Administration.

    3. Bank examiners swarm into the banks, starting with the big ones. The 10 largest ones are all examined over the weekend. MBS and other instruments, including HELOCs, are all marked to the market at today’s prices.

    4. The CDS related to these institutions are frozen. All CDS holders are brought “into the room” and ordered to net out their exposure and post cash margin against any underwater positions. Those who refuse or are unable have their CDS declared void as fraudulent in the inducement, as there was never an intent or ability to perform. Yes, this is an abrogation of contract in theory, but in fact you can’t contract to do an impossible thing (e.g. I can’t contract with you to jump over the Empire State Building, since I can’t perform.) Let the aggrieved parties litigate it out over time – for now, the beast’s fangs have been pulled, and suing a bankrupt entity (in the case of a “resolved” bank) is a waste of time anyway – there’s nothing to get.

    5. All banks that are insolvent are immediately resolved. For those that are large national institutions the deposit-bearing parts are broken off into one for each Federal Reserve region. The securities and other business units are left naked; if they die, they die. Bondholders are crammed down into equity as required to fill the holes in the balance sheet; the common equity is wiped out. If – and only if – that is insufficient the FDIC steps in and makes the depositors whole. Any insolvent bank has its officers and directors ejected and barred for life from any national bank-privileged institution. The forensic auditors will stay on for months, examining for control frauds and referring all they find to prosecutors.

    6. The solvent banks (and resolved banks) re-open over the space of the next two weeks, starting with the largest institutions.

    http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=170706

  123. morpheus says:

    123: “learned”? maybe an alcoholic, but certainly not “learned”.

    I just hope when I park my “beater” jeep on your property, the value of your home does not decline.

  124. Simply Ravishing HEHEHE says:

    “Any insolvent bank has its officers and directors ejected and barred for life from any national bank-privileged institution”

    I don’t see this happening as I doubt the person who wrote the article has made as many campaign donations as the officers and directors of the banks.

  125. Juice Box says:

    re #90 – Shore – bunch a young guys, the hotel staff messing with an older couple who did not understand the language. If these guys were serious it would have turned into one of those hostage videos where the guy gets his head lopped off with a scimitar.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5H64OOkeXA&feature=related

    When you travel to the third world sometimes the staff first tries to pilfer stuff and some even go as far as making fun of you in their native language, you can almost always tell when they make fun of you because the body language and facial expressions are the same regardless of the language.

    I still remember the time in Jamaica my roommates tooth brush was messed with. Yeah that happens too.

  126. Al Gore says:

    125.

    Hyde

    Re: Nuclear Power

    Im not necessarily against it but the tritium leaks must be addressed. Oyster Creek and Ciba Gigy have f_ed up a lot of lives. Compromise could be reached.

  127. Al Gore says:

    Good Lord silver is looking hot. Mmm Mmm Mmm (Barack Hussein Obama). CFTC fraud finally exposed. Up Up and away.

  128. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [124] Al

    Only if we have time during brewing. But since we can’t pop off any rounds, it seems kinda pointless.

    Supplies have been ordered, so we are on schedule to make a brown porter on 11/7. We’ll have to come up with a name for it, and I suggest something with the word “Grim” in it.

  129. Al Gore says:

    133.

    Nom,

    Add an ounce of grain alcohol and name it oblivion?

  130. hughesrep says:

    Grim and Bear It Porter.

    I spend too much time in beer stores.

  131. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “Mmm Mmm Mmm (Barack Hussein Obama).”

    AG,

    Nov 2008;

    Gold- 730
    Silver- 9.75

    Who says O hasn’t delivered on his pledge regarding change?

  132. Juice Box says:

    re: #138 Want- The Autumn/Winter 2010 fashion shows indicate a Polyester comeback.

  133. Juice Box says:

    Happy Halloween and be-careful of who shows up on your doorstep.

    http://gawker.com/5674353/i-had-a-one+night-stand-with-christine-odonnell?skyline=true&s=i

  134. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Juice [139],

    Yep, back to the late 70’s; Saturday Night Fever.

  135. Fabius Maximus says:

    Finally a picture that’s worth a thousand words.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CBO_Forecast_Changes_for_2009-2012.png

    My biggest problem with people that criticize O on the defecit, is that they don’t seem to comprehend how badly GWB drove the bus off the cliff.

    That little $201 in the corner, that is O. And people want to put the GOP back in power, who exactly is smoking what?

  136. Fabius Maximus says:

    Jon Stewart rally: top 10 placards

    My favorite is the “If Ms O’Donnell is really me …..”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/oct/29/jon-stewart-rally-placards

  137. Juice Box says:

    Cumon Fabius there was no budget surplus in 2000 or 2001 it is a myth,the CBO projections were made during a Bubble. The bursting of the DOT COM Bubble caused the loss well over a million tech jobs and trillions in wealth, NASDAQ 5k anyone? You can blame Bush for the wars and the off budget war spending but that is nothing compared to the losses incurred due to the Bubbles.

  138. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Wasn’t JJ, the JPM analyzer, on here a week ago talking about some uptick in trading volume:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/presenting-october-nyse-volume

  139. Lamar says:

    hyde (127)-

    I like this one the best. The guys “brought into the room” would be drenched in flop sweat. Sort of like a face-to-face margin call, with the margin desk having a cannon pointed at the banker’s head.

    “The CDS related to these institutions are frozen. All CDS holders are brought “into the room” and ordered to net out their exposure and post cash margin against any underwater positions.”

  140. Lamar says:

    al (134)-

    Brew up something along those lines, and I’ll gladly show up to do some quality control.

    “Add an ounce of grain alcohol and name it oblivion?”

  141. Pat says:

    Dumb as a bag of hammers.

  142. Pat says:

    Just repeating the line that caught me on this thread.

  143. Lamar says:

    Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?

  144. Fabius Maximus says:

    #112 Al,

    If you are looking for dumb as a bag of hammers then the Tea Party is a Harbor Freight Tent Sale.

    I saw one on TV last night. When asked about “What spending cuts they would put in place day one to address the deficit”, all should could utter was “We are against the redistribution of wealth” The follow up was like watching a baby seal get clubbed. It was Sister Sarah/ Katie Couric all over again and that is the proble. There is no vetting of candidates or realistic media handling outside of ‘Only talk to Fox’ and that tide will turn soon enough..

  145. Lamar says:

    Just in case anybody forgot that gazillions of shit first mortgages have gazillions in even crappier second mortgages behind them:

    “Reuters’ Matt Goldstein has completed a special report on foreclosure fraud, asking rhetorically: “foreclosures are rising; lawsuits are flying; banks are beleaguered; there has to be a better way?” Goldstein looks at fraudclosure from the perspective of the fight between junior and senior liens, a topic Zero Hedge discussed a month ago (The Foreclosure Mess MBS Hate Triangle Emerges: Junior Versus Senior Bondholders Versus Servicers) highlighting that $426 billion in loans are second lien, and, as highlighted previously, sit on the balance sheets of BofA, JPM, Wells and Citi in the biggest circle jerk in this whole mortgage crisis fiasco (always remember: one TBTF’s mismarked assets always end up being another TBTF’s unfudgeable liabilities). As the chart below shows, the banks have no choice but to come up with a compromise: obstinately keeping their heads in the sand is a guaranteed way for the entire financial system to blow up.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/will-426-billion-second-lien-monster-require-new-marshall-plan-housing-reuters-special-repor

  146. Lamar says:

    gluteus (151)-

    You’re missing the point of the Tea Party.

  147. Fabius Maximus says:

    #144 Juice

    If there wasn’t a surplus, that makes GWB justifications of his tax cuts as “returning the surplus to the taxpayers”, all the more egregious.
    The main point of that graph is it is 2 Trillion in the wrong direction. You can say that O’s 200 is a wash with 200 from the Tech bubble downturn as an inheritance from the previous administration., but GWB is on the hook for the rest.

  148. Fabius Maximus says:

    #153

    “You’re missing the point of the Tea Party.”

    What is the point of it, I thought it is Strawman for the takeover of the GOP?

  149. Fabius Maximus says:

    #152

    As the juniors are full recourse, someone has to start mining that thread eventually. While you say that you have never seen the junior come after the homeowner after a Jingle or short, they fact is they still can. The likes of BAC, Citi and Wells proably have a lot of these sitting in a file somewere.

  150. Fast Eddie says:

    Four more days until the end of the Barry, Harry and Nancy show.

  151. Juice Box says:

    Fabius – tax receipts and deficits and bubbles. It’s easy when things are good and some blow hard can say deficits don’t matter. Tell me now who has the authority to raise the debt ceiling? Hint it wasn’t GWB. But on another level show me one political party that does not spend spend spend. Few in DC can say no, which is the bigger problem.

  152. Fabius Maximus says:

    #158 Juice

    It comes down to the fact that the right for all their rhetoric won’t step up address the spending issues. They won’t cut the budget or reform the systsem were it is required. Defense, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are 3/4 of the budget but they won’t go near them. Cutting Education and Energy are not going to solve the crises.

  153. Pat says:

    I forget who the vice president is….

  154. Juice Box says:

    Fab compare your chart to GDP and say population and you have a winner.

  155. Al Gore says:

    151.

    Fabius,

    Re Tea Party:

    Doesnt matter. They are pissed and thats a start. Subverted on a national level, healthy at the local level. Go watch your tv set. Angry is exactly where you should be.

  156. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “My biggest problem with people that criticize O on the defecit, is that they don’t seem to comprehend how badly GWB drove the bus off the cliff.”

    Fab,

    Stop the nonsense.

    The manipulators love you. You can argue liberals/conservatives till you are blue in the face; one prints/spends, the other taxes/spends. The master minds created the mascots a long time ago. Pit the sheeple against each other. In the meantime, the banksters, military and pharma cartel control the purse strings. Do you actually think that the fed heads care if the seat is occupied by a blue/red ass? Yet, they have been raping us since 1913. Go ahead, count districts, stay up all night and strategize. The directors are ready to go with act 1 or 2. Either way, they win, we lose.

    Forget about RR, Bush 1/2, Clinton, O, you are up against the elite doing God’s work. How ya doin?

  157. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Let’s keep it recent;

    Connaly
    Schultz
    Simon
    Blumenthal
    Miller
    Reagan
    Baker
    Brady
    Schultz

  158. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    Not done;

    Bensten
    Rubin
    Snow
    Summers
    Paulson
    Geithner

    I’m sure I missed a few dolts. Same policy, different suits. Liberal, conservatives, tea baggers, independents; all a facade.

    Good faith and credit is built on the foundation of these thieves. Good Luck.

  159. Caveman says:

    Love that Note: “Note that CBO forecasts are based on law enacted at time of forecast.” Note that article date of 7/13/2009?

    -Bush Did 700 Billion over 7 years in office (based on date in the graph).
    -O has done 200 billion on his own in less then a 1 year.
    -What If we include the “Bad Bush” programs he continued, but of course isn’t held responsible for that, he’s just following the economic genius before him, so what does that make him? That’s another 400 billion for a total of 600 in less then 1 year.
    -And it doesn’t include health care which passed March 2010.
    -And it also assumes he DOES NOTHING ELSE for the next 2 years.

    Am I reading this chart wrong? I hope so, because thats incredible if I am.

  160. Lamar says:

    gluteus (156)-

    Those seconds aren’t going after anyone. If they sign on to a DIL or short sale, they forfeit their ability to file for a deficiency judgment.

    Full recourse means nothing when the property is hopelessly underwater. Most junior liens done from ’04-’07 were virtually unsecured from the moment they were underwritten.

  161. Lamar says:

    Even better: zillions of Wells Fargo seconds were done in support of Wells firsts as part of an 80-20 or 80-15-5 piggyback.

    Those schmucks knew a massive amount of those seconds were dead money from the git-go.

  162. Lamar says:

    I think I’m about to talk myself into putting WFC onto my list of banks that are about to die.

  163. Lamar says:

    BC (163)-

    Thank you. Unfortunately, some can only get interested if they have a rooting interest in one inept team vs. another.

  164. Lamar says:

    As late as 2008, I was going to real estate meetings where some WFC yutz would get up in front of the crowd and start pitching 3-2-1 buydowns.

    I started making finger-to-throat gagging noises during one of these pitches, and everybody turned around and stared at me.

  165. Qwerty says:

    “You can blame Bush for the wars and the off budget war spending”

    Actually, you can’t. The President does not authorize spending, that’s the role of Congress. Congress voted for both wars, too.

    http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=2&vote=00237#position

  166. Qwerty says:

    Some interesting names on that “yes” list:

    Biden (D-DE)
    Clinton (D-NY)
    Reid (D-NV)
    Kerry (D-MA)
    Edwards (D-NC)
    Schumer (D-NY)

    The same bunch, plus Obama (D-IL) , voted for the “Patriot Act” too.

    Thank goodness the “mainstream” media holds their feet to the fire, and keeps the public informed.

  167. Greg L says:

    >>5. All banks that are insolvent are immediately resolved. For those that are large national institutions the deposit-bearing parts are broken off into one for each Federal Reserve region. The securities and other business units are left naked; if they die, they die. Bondholders are crammed down into equity as required to fill the holes in the balance sheet; the common equity is wiped out. If – and only if – that is insufficient the FDIC steps in and makes the depositors whole. Any insolvent bank has its officers and directors ejected and barred for life from any national bank-privileged institution. The forensic auditors will stay on for months, examining for control frauds and referring all they find to prosecutors.

    6. The solvent banks (and resolved banks) re-open over the space of the next two weeks, starting with the largest institutions.<<

    This is what absolutely needs to happen rather than this QE business. Just this week, I moved some money from a major financial institution to a local credit union.. My continuing concern is that any bank run would pull under solvent institutions as well. The scenario laid out here will address that issue and build confidence in the remaining banks and credit unions. There's no question that there's a very serious problem as the MBS's are everywhere and for the most part the credit unions weren't involved save for the corporate credit unions that service the retail credit unions. The problems with the corporate credit unions has been contained for the most part.

    Again, those MBS's are everywhere–pensions, insurance companies–and when I think of pensions, I'm thinking about all of those state pensions that are underfunded anyway but are made worst with this crap in them. The losses have to be taken by those responsible for the fraud and if they get wiped out, so be it. But that's the problem, they don't want that to happen. Someone has to grow and set and do the right thing by the people. Unfortunately, I don't see anyone really up to it.

  168. Fabius Maximus says:

    #162 Al

    Doesnt matter. They are pissed and thats a start. Subverted on a national level, healthy at the local level. Go watch your tv set. Angry is exactly where you should be

    I think its more Friday Night Lights vs the NFL
    http://media.hamptonroads.com/media/content/pilotonline/2007/11/1109jd500x325.jpg

  169. Fabius Maximus says:

    #163 Wnat

    Not really disagreeing here. My point here is that when Bonehead and the like spout off about spending cuts to balance the budget, I would like to know exactly where they think they are cutting.

  170. Fabius Maximus says:

    #166 Caveman

    They are on GWB becase a lot of that was locked in. The spending on the war doesn’t stop overnight (or in the next 20 years). If the Bush tax cuts are extended, that goes on O’s dime.

  171. Lamar says:

    Cast your lot with either party, and you’ll end up in the same place. They are both pure evil, and both are in a race to destroy the US. Not a hair’s difference between the two, and they are both united in the desire to render us stupid, broke and subjugated.

    Political parties are a smokescreen to keep people’s attention off the ongoing bank robbery.

  172. Lamar says:

    Bojangles is GWB in blackface. His first move was to keep the same clowns who wrecked everything in charge of fixing them.

  173. Fabius Maximus says:
  174. Lamar says:

    Wonder where the false flag is going to hit.

    Wonder how many more “terror plots” come to light between now and Tuesday.

  175. 30 year realtor says:

    Lamar #179 – Since Obama was elected I have named him “Bush with a tan.”

  176. Mr Wantanapolous says:

    “Bush with a tan.”

    [30 yr],

    GWB on steroids.

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