Zillow: Big drop in fourth quarter home prices

From Inman:

Real estate prices close out 2010 in tailspin

U.S. home prices fell 2.6 percent from the third quarter of 2010 to the fourth, the biggest drop in nearly two years, according to a report by property portal Zillow.

The Zillow Home Value Index, which is not seasonally adjusted, fell 5.9 percent on a year-over-year basis, to $175,200 — 27 percent below a June 2006 peak.

The accelerated decline in home prices after the expiration of the federal homebuyer tax credits in mid-2010 forced a record percentage of those selling homes in December — 34.1 percent — to sell at a loss.

Zillow estimated that 27 percent of homeowners with mortgages were underwater, owing more than their house was worth, up from 23.2 percent in the previous quarter.

The good news is that the declines “mean we’re getting closer to the bottom,” said Zillow Chief Economist Stan Humphries in a statement.

“The housing recession is likely in its death throes, and we expect to see sales pick up in early 2011,” Humphries said. “That will lead the way to home values stabilizing and an eventual bottom later this year, although it will take several months of increased sales activity before values begin to respond.”

A home-price index released Tuesday by mortgage data aggregator CoreLogic showed U.S. home prices falling for the fifth month in a row in December, although the rate of depreciation is slowing, the company said.

This entry was posted in Economics, Housing Bubble, National Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

158 Responses to Zillow: Big drop in fourth quarter home prices

  1. nj escapee says:

    First from balmy Key West, Florida!!

  2. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  3. grim says:

    From the NYT:

    Plans Near for Freddie and Fannie

    The Obama administration and House Republicans are settling into a game of chicken over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, with each side daring the other to advance a plan for replacing the two housing finance companies.

    The White House missed a deadline at the end of January for telling Congress what it wants to do. That report will be released as early as Friday, people with knowledge of its contents said, but it will present a range of options without stating a preference.

    One possibility favored by some of President Obama’s economic advisers, and by many Republicans, would not create any federal replacement for Fannie and Freddie, leaving the private markets to provide mortgages for most Americans. The alternative approaches instead would continue some form of federal mortgage backstop.

    The report will describe a plan for winding down the two companies, which were taken over by the government in 2008. Initial steps will include preventing the companies from buying loans larger than $625,500, and increasing the fees they charge for loan guarantees, according to officials who spoke on condition of anonymity so as not to pre-empt the official release.

  4. grim says:

    From MarketWatch:

    10 reasons to be bullish on housing

    Almost five full years into the housing downturn, it’s still cool to be bearish on real estate. But cool isn’t always right.

    Despite headwinds such as looming shadow inventory, a lackluster job market and geopolitical instability, there are plenty of reasons why rose-colored glasses may be the real-estate eyewear of choice.

    And while it may finally be time to be bullish on housing, there is one huge caveat.

    The local bottom that the broad housing market experienced in April 2009 may yet be surpassed to the downside. If it is, housing bears will pound their chests, stubborn pessimism vindicated. They will be mistaking the trees for the forest. This recovery, which in many areas remains in full force, has been, and will continue to be, highly local in nature.

    Fundamentally strong markets have thrived, while weak ones have languished. National, state, and even city-level indicators have been masking trends that are ongoing on a neighborhood level. This will continue, and those that ignore it will miss out on countless opportunities.

  5. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Home Affordability Returns to Pre-Bubble Levels

    Home affordability returned to pre-bubble levels in a growing number of U.S. markets over the past year as price declines laid the groundwork for a housing recovery.

    Data provided by Moody’s Analytics track the ratio of median home prices to annual household incomes in 74 markets. By that measure, housing affordability at the end of September had returned to or surpassed the average reached between 1989-2003 in 47 of those markets. Most economists believe the housing boom took off in 2003.

    “Based on incomes, this is as affordable as it gets,” said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Analytics. “If you can get a loan, these are pretty good times to buy.”

    But the bad news is that those price declines are leaving more borrowers underwater, or in homes worth less than the amount owed.

    Many economists and housing analysts expect an additional decline of 5% to 10% before prices reach bottom later this year or early next year. Housing demand remains weak because buyers are skittish about the economy and lending standards are tight.

    Markets that now appear to be undervalued include Detroit, Las Vegas, Atlanta and Phoenix. Even in such markets, high rates of foreclosure and underwater borrowers should keep downward pressure on prices. “They’re undervalued, but they’re going to get even more undervalued,” said Mr. Zandi.

    Home prices still remain overvalued by both measures in several markets, including Seattle, Charlotte, New York and Portland, Ore.

    Based on rents, “it’s still not a slam dunk to buy” in those markets, said Mr. Zandi. He said markets appeared most overvalued in the Pacific Northwest, which was among the last regions to enter the housing downturn. Historical measures also showed prices were still high along the Northeast corridor from Baltimore to Boston.

    Some areas will stay undervalued for years as they deal with a glut of foreclosures and weak demand. Historical trends show housing could remain undervalued in many markets for six to seven years, seconomists at Capital Economics.

  6. serenity now says:

    Re#4 I KNEW my street was different.
    Yes sarcasm.

  7. NJ Toast says:

    Home affordability:

    And once we reach bottom, if / when that happens, prices will probably remain depressed for many years so if I am underwater today, and I need to sell in 5 years and I am lucky, I will only need a snorkel to breath and a mask to see. If I am not lucky, I will need to put two tanks on my back, and slow my respiration rate bigtime to survive.

    Love the articles by journalists on housing, good at writing, clueless on the topics they discuss.

  8. NJ Toast says:

    throw an e at the end of breath

  9. Painhrtz says:

    Grim 3 how about we put them up for sale and get rid of them

  10. Barbara says:

    no body wants one, there are many to be had, yet….these homes are “under valued.” Interesting phrase, I wonder what is the criteria for under valued?

  11. nj escapee says:

    Shore, from previous thread, we have all the modern conveniences here all except for high speed rail service that is.

  12. schrodinger's Cat says:

    So how is this significantly different from a balloon payment due at the end of the “grace” period? I guess it isnt O’s problem since it will kick the bucket long enough for him to get out of office and have it blamed on the next empty suit to sit in the oval office.

    “President Obama is proposing to ride to the rescue of states that have borrowed billions of dollars from the federal government to continue paying unemployment benefits during the economic downturn. His plan would give the states a two-year breather before automatic tax increases would hit employers, and before states would have to start paying interest on the loans.”

  13. JJ says:

    The good news is that the declines “mean we’re getting closer to the bottom,” said Zillow Chief Economist Stan Humphries in a statement.

    Wow the man is amazing. So what he is saying every percentage we go down it gets us closer to a bottom. WOW. He should work on Wall Street.

    Funnier, talking to some foreign looking overweight, crooked teeth stinky breath and badly dressed and smell lady who got lucky in work and has a lots of cash now. So she is house hunting in a rich WASPY upper class neighborhood from her mixed blue collar neighborhood. I wonder what is she expecting. She and husband work full time so they won’t even be there and kids are shoved in day care anyhow. Then on Sat and Sunday when there are there do they expect Jcrew type Waspy neighbors to invite them over. Funny part is the houses on either side will drop like 100K when she moves in. A badly dressed smelly low class chain smoking lady standing on curb all day smoking ain’t good for values. Funny part is I see this a lot. Do these people think the better neighbor hood will bring them class? More likely a good bath, lose a few pounds and dress nicer will help a lot more, but I guess buying a house is easier.

  14. It all works.

    Until it doesn’t.

  15. “We all know by now that Meredith is a witch: an unpatriotic, racist bitch, who eats kittens for breakfast, who deserves to be grilled by Joe McCarthy’s exhumated corpse for telling communist truths, pardon, lies (just a Freudian slip dear Department of Central Planning and Internet supervision), and who will soon be accused of having unprotected (yet arguably consensual) sex with a Swedish man. But just in case she is on to something, here comes the president’s plan to bail out the (otherwise perfectly solvent and all, we promise) states. The NYT reports that “President Obama is proposing to ride to the rescue of states that have borrowed billions of dollars from the federal government to continue paying unemployment benefits during the economic downturn. His plan would give the states a two-year breather before automatic tax increases would hit employers, and before states would have to start paying interest on the loans.” But where are the details you may ask? Patience grasshopper: they will be included in the latest budget proposal which has been delayed for nearly half a year now as the printer ran out of zeroes. “The proposal, which administration officials said would be included in the 2012 budget that the president is scheduled to unveil next week, was greeted coolly by Republicans on Capitol Hill, who warned that the plan would ultimately force many states to raise their unemployment taxes in the years to come.” Ah yes, the Republicans – those paragons of sound financial judgment and sounder virtue. After all who can forget whole “Tea Party thing” which did so much to prevent the incurrence of a few hundred billion in additional debt over the next decade to pay for the latest Russell 2000 at 36,000 hairbrained ponzi scheme concocted by Rudolph von Bernankestein.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/presenting-obamas-plan-bail-out-otherwise-perfectly-solvent-states

  16. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Debt,

    If O can get a chunk of the states costs pushes off for 2 years before they get hit with a balloon payment, then oblivion may be slightly delayed. Of course that only makes the implosion ever larger. Does anyone think the states would use that time to pair down their expenses and liabilities in preparation for the balloon payment?
    The states will squander the short reprieve, fail to make substantial cuts to the monstrous pension and other entitlement overhangs. They will simultaneous be increasing taxes in the most painful manner for the taxpayer in order to weaken their resolve against the government. When that balloon payment comes due is when it gets really ugly

  17. leftwing says:

    Oh yeah.

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/02/camden_council_votes_down_23_p.html

    Bust public employee unions. Starve the beast.

  18. JJ says:

    QE3 state bail out. Actually the issue is only a handful of states have trouble, and NJ is part of that handful. Issue is if Muni bond crisis grows the good states will get hit as the ability to issue 3% bonds become 6% bonds and cost of funds double as bonds mature and that alone will cause them trouble.

    But bail out part I don’t like is NY GO bonds have been recovering since Cuomo is getting tough on costs! That is how bonds should be rewarded and not through back-stopping. How NJ such a rich state got into this mess is amazing. Corzione was a wall street smartie and he only made it worse.

  19. dan says:

    What did they expect from the Camden board? They wanted to charge taxpayers an extra 23% without any bike trail additions….. Now 30% increase with bike trails, that would have passed for sure!!!!

  20. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Dan

    just think of how much more efficient the recreational pharmaceutical distribution system could be in Camden with a well developed bike trail system!!!

  21. dan says:

    Agreed Schrod and think of much safer too it would be now that there are less cops to shoot back and forth with.

  22. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Dan

    you have a point. The average cop is a notoriously bad shot. 1 less person spraying and praying.

  23. yo'me says:

    What did they expect from the Camden board? They wanted to charge taxpayers an extra 23%

    Add the increase on school taxes on top of the 23% municipal taxes.It is not 23% anymore!

  24. yo'me says:

    10 yr 3.7

  25. JJ says:

    ever since they stopped the height requirement for Cops the whole thing is a joke. When I was little they still had the six foot or over rule and cops still always had a Partner.
    When I was tagging a subway car only thing to be scared of was a pair of big Mick Cops with hands the size of catchers mitts getting a hold of you by the ear and giving you a smack down. No guns needed.

    My favorite was my Uncle the Irish Cop who was a former bouncer/boxer back in the 1950s broke up a fight between two drunk married guys in suit and one mouthed off and took a swing at him. Guy was like big deal what do I get a free night in the Drunk Tank, Uncle went I got something better for you. Grabbed him by back of neck dragged him ten blocks home at 2am to his apartment banged on his door till wife and kids came to door and all neighbors lights came on. Guy was white as a ghost and when they got near his block he was begging Uncle to let him go or arrest him. Uncle threw guy into apartment and guy looked like he was going to the Electric Chair. A mad Irish wife awoken at 2am to a Cop banging on door cause Drunk Husband was fighting she quickly got the rolling pin out and gave her husband a severe beating. Uncle said he could hear his screams from out in the street. Cops today are a joke. Funny how in the 1950’s getting arrested or beat-up by a Cop did not scare men. But getting taken home by a big Irish Cop in front of your neighbors and Children for a beating by your wife was the ultimate punishment.

  26. Shore Guy says:

    NJE,

    I hear you use the US Dollar as your currency too.

  27. Shore Guy says:

    http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2011/02/09/rhode_island_a_fiscal_mess_few_care_about_98858.html

    Tho Ocean State is under water, it seems. Maybe we should start calling it Atlantis?

  28. kidstar says:

    SHORT SALE HELP!!!

    Need some advice on a SHORT SALE in Bergen County. If anyone can help with some questions, would really appreciate it.

  29. nj escapee says:

    Shore, Local pawn shops will accept gold, guitars, powertools, etc

  30. Mikeinwaitimg says:

    kidstar 30 Do not know what your question is , but if you have to ask what q

  31. Mikeinwaitimg says:

    questions to ask you have no business doing a short sale buy. Consider this grim tried it & got burnt, he knows this stuff inside out how do you think it is going to work out for you.

  32. Mikeinwaitimg says:

    Shore 29 Rhode Island a model for all of us. Get the popcorn & watch it implode. Governor gets elected by teachers union backing him after giving them what they want,
    that works till the money runs out ,which it already has, better get extra popcorn for this one.

  33. chicagofinance says:

    clot: Went to Danny Myer’s BBQ place last night and ordered Poutine….the guy behind the bar was like WTF are you talking about?

  34. chicagofinance says:

    The end is nigh (Danny Meyer edition):

    THIS SUCKS!
    http://www.tablany.com/

  35. kidstar says:

    My question is:
    If a bank comes back with a much higher counter offer than the original offer amount which was submitted, what would the recommended next steps be?

  36. Juice Box says:

    re: # 37 – “much higher counter offer”

    Quantify that in a percentage at least? 50% higher?

  37. 30 year realtor says:

    #37 Kidstar – depends on the value of the property and the amount of the offer… If the offer is close to market value you may want to provide some evidence to support the offer.

  38. NJGator says:

    Chifi 36 – Didn’t know you were a fan. They closed in December. They also just had a weekend where they sold off all their serviceware, etc. I was so tempted to go. Had many a fine meal there. My absolute favorite was the dinner for 4 I won from AMEX. Top notch, fantastic. Even made Captain Cheapo a fan.

  39. grim says:

    Kid,

    Listing agent for the property should work to put together a set of comps to justify the offer. In addition, the buyer can support by quantifying inspection related defects with repair estimates to include with the resubmission.

    There is a high probability they’ll reject again, so just be aware that the time, effort, and potential cost involved in even resubmission may be a waste.

  40. JJ says:

    BULL MARKET!!!!

  41. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Toast,

    What does a fella have to do to get an S8 around here?!?!

  42. Essex says:

    43. Make an exceptionally great car and people will buy it. It all starts with DESIGN. Some of you folks will belly ache about unions and nonsense like that. The real issue is the design of the machine. US Makers just make ugly cars that tend to break.

  43. Al Mossberg says:

    S&P Downgrades New Jersey General Obligation Debt From AA To AA-

    “The ratings reflect what we view as the following strengths:

    New Jersey’s diverse economic base. The recession’s effects and a continued slump in the real estate market have hampered employment and income performance, although we note some recent modest signs of recovery;
    The state’s high wealth and income levels, which continue to be among the highest of the 50 states; and
    Continued improvement in balancing resources to needs in an increasingly difficult economic environment.
    In our opinion, credit weaknesses include:

    A large unfunded pension liability;
    Significant postemployment benefit obligations; and
    An above-average debt burden.”
    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/sp-downgrades-new-jersey-general-obligation-debt-aa-aa#comment-946794

    JJ,

    Does this mean I should sell my Irvington and Camden municipal bonds?

  44. Painhrtz says:

    Cat a 150k and no debt.

    Would kill for one though, love our A4. Even though we look like we are going to be trading in our Avant for the GLK CDI coming out in August

  45. Al Mossberg says:

    After having the fist of tyranny shoved up my _ss on my recent property tax reassesment I think I have turned the corner from being disgusted with NJ to actual hatred for this state.

    Now I have to try to dump this POS anchor of a home because some public tit sucking piece of garbage needs a free ride. I would love to see those dumb bastards try to make it in the real world where they actually have to produce instead of slapping cake in their mouth all day.

  46. chicagofinance says:

    Actually a massive fan of the Bread Bar….it doesn’t surprise it was whacked, because the opinion that it was overpriced for what you got was ubiquitous. I loved sitting outside behind the gate staring into Madison Park and wondering what Credit Suisse did with all the homeless people. Soylent green?

    Any place that gives you a steaming hot lemonwater-soaked-towel after the meal has me at hello…….

    40.NJGator says:
    February 9, 2011 at 11:59 am
    Chifi 36 – Didn’t know you were a fan. They closed in December. They also just had a weekend where they sold off all their serviceware, etc. I was so tempted to go. Had many a fine meal there. My absolute favorite was the dinner for 4 I won from AMEX. Top notch, fantastic. Even made Captain Cheapo a fan.

  47. chicagofinance says:

    Post like a troll and people with think you are a fcukwad…..take your opinions and blow it out the shitter….

    45.Essex says:
    February 9, 2011 at 12:27 pm
    43. Make an exceptionally great car and people will buy it. It all starts with DESIGN. Some of you folks will belly ache about unions and nonsense like that. The real issue is the design of the machine. US Makers just make ugly cars that tend to break.

  48. chicagofinance says:

    Mouse house kickin’ it…..man!

  49. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Essex 45

    as someone who has driven and still drives multiple audi’s i have to say that “great car” is relative. Maintenance/reliability on audi’s has become more hit & miss and the dealers fight more & more often over warranted repairs.

    What Audi has is design. Not everyone is a fan, but the aesthetics and handling of the cars is very good and they tend to be loaded with lots of wizz bang tech.

    The mechanical reliability has decreased over time and repairs for audi’s are notoriously expensive.

    German manufacturer’s advantage over American manufacturers is that they are starting from the top (relatively) and are sliding down while the americans are starting form the bottom and trying to rebuild an image.

  50. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Pain,

    How much in bribes would it cost to get the paper work for an imported EU A6 Allroad diesel?

  51. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    uh-oh

    S&P Downgrades New Jersey General Obligation Debt From AA To AA-

    Standard & Poor’s Ratings Services has lowered its long-term and underlying ratings on the State of New Jersey’s general obligation (GO) debt to ‘AA-‘ from ‘AA’. “The lower rating reflects our concern regarding the stresses from the state’s poorly funded pension system, substantial postemployment benefit obligations, and above-average debt levels,” said Standard & Poor’s credit analyst Jeffrey Panger. The downgrade also reflects the application of Standard & Poor’s newly adopted criteria on U.S. states, which more transparently incorporates debt, pension, and other postemployment liabilities, along with other rating factors

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/sp-downgrades-new-jersey-general-obligation-debt-aa-aa

  52. zieba says:

    Clot,

    (drawing imaginary heart symbol over chest)

    Your one liners complete me.

  53. Painhrtz says:

    More than you and I could afford on a janitor’s salary, but I would willingly give a digit to own one.

  54. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Can someone elucidate on what sort of obligations might be in the following categories?

    New Jersey has about $2.6 billion of GO debt, $27.8 billion of appropriation-backed debt, and $2.5 billion of moral obligation debt
    outstanding.

  55. Painhrtz says:

    Chipolte hires illegals, next your going to tell me water is wet

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/02/08/minnesota.chipotle.immigrants/index.html?eref=rss_crime

  56. JJ says:

    Audi, Saab and Volvo are pretend upscale cars. A rich person once told me if you can’t afford a top of the line Mercedes or BMW brand new than buy a brand new Cadillac.

    Never buy a 3 series, C-Class or Audi, Saab or Volvo brand new as all that is telling people is you are too broke to buy a 5/7 series or S Class.

    A brand new 35K Cadillac says maybe I can afford to buy a 100K German car but I like to buy American. A brand new bottom of the line Audi says I am broke.

    CS did not drive the homesless away, the closing off all the SROs and crack house around 26 street that were made into high end coops combined with Guilliani police got rid of them.

  57. grim says:

    From the Record:

    NJ’s credit rating downgraded

    The state’s credit rating, which affects the state’s ability to borrow money, was downgraded by Standards & Poor this morning, the agency confirmed.

    Gov. Chris Christie bemoaned the impact of that downgrade at a town hall meeting in Union City this morning. Christie said the downgrade came as a result of the state’s unfunded pension obligations.

    “The sky started to fall in today,” Christie said of the change in the credit rating.

  58. d2b says:

    I’ve noticed more Audi’s around, especially the A6. They really seem to be the hot car around here. Ever since the accelerator problem in the 80s Audis have always seemed like second class luxury to me. I know that most don’t agree with me. I didn’t think the A6 was that much money so now they really seem to be excessive.

    Plus, I’m going down the path of the Captain Cheapo car philosophy, having spent too much on new vehicles over the last decade.

  59. chicagofinance says:

    Blake Griffin top 10…..it’s good, but it really doesn’t get going until about #6…but #5 and up are sick…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gG4W0L41FI

  60. zieba says:

    Vidalia,

    It’s a good thing others don’t know you woke up at 6AM and drove to Manheim to purchase your coveted five. Lest you be branded broke.

    The C and threes have become to the automotive world what stainless kitchens were to RE circa 2007.

    Also, how uninspired and sheep like is a sea of 5/7/E/S’s? The lengths some people will go to just to fit in is a shame really. An argument can be made for using exclusivity or rarity when ranking an automobile. In that regard, there are some sexy Swedes that you don’t see everday that I’d take in a heartbeat.

    Comment re: higher prices.
    I don’t know if anybody noticed but the wheels that underpin these larger beefier automobiles are also getting larger. Have you checked the price of a 18″ or 20″ all season tire???

  61. leftwing says:

    STS tires can help you out with those 18s/20s. I blew out one tire and needed both replaced, got clipped the first time somewhere else when I put on mfr originals. Next time with wear went to STS and they hooked me up with a Japanese make. No discernable performance difference and had them all last season.

  62. Essex says:

    61. BMW really dropped the ball on their 3 series turbos. Lots and lots of defectors over to the Audi.

  63. Essex says:

    Sometimes timing is everything. The 335 was really impressive in terms of performance. The turbo on those made the 3 into a serious M contender at 1/2 the cost. I opted against one for an 06 (single year make) of the 330. Nice numbers and not turbo’ed. Now it seems the fuel pumps in the 335 went bad sometimes 2 and 3 times during the car’s lifetime. Left people stranded. Etc. Whew! Glad to have ‘not’ went that route. Yet they are FUN!

  64. zieba says:

    I’ve noticed that most people in this country don’t concern themselves with things like balding tires or maintenance of their vehicle. I guess when you’re driving 47 on the left lane yapping on a cell with a backseat full of TV dinners, it doesn’t matter much.

    It’s not just imports or tuners. A lof of the newly styled GM and Ford products are leaving the factory with 18″ rims, 20″ (chargers, edges, explorers, fusion). That sh*t is mo-ney in comparison to the cars the above named models aim to replace.

  65. Essex says:

    64. STS are great. Tirerack also does nice work.

  66. leftwing says:

    JJ

    In my younger and stupider days I decided to mouth off to a couple of eyetalians with badges in Hoboken after getting mixed up in a brawl in a bar owned by one of their partners. Everybody else went one way, I got lead the other way, packed into a squad car, and had the **** kicked out of me on that overpass going into JC. Probably didn’t help I kept mouthing off the whole beating. Got to the Hudson Correctional Center and was greeted with ‘we heard about you, thought you were going to end up in the Passaic River’ – no smile with that one. Had some charge processed by them as a CYA so that a week later a judge could expunge it in return for me not pursuing anything else further. Seemed like a fair enough tradeoff at the time.

  67. Essex says:

    60. Christie will make a run for President, cause the GOP is just that bereft of talent.

  68. Essex says:

    69. Damn.

  69. leftwing says:

    SX

    Note to self: If a police department is busted for dealing cocaine in its ranks it is generally not a smart thing to announce once you’re brought to their station house that the reason a group of officers from said police department are acting like a$$h0les is because ‘they are all jacked up on coke’.

    I think one of their group a bunch of years later came out of the closet, went tranny, and then committed suicide. Karma.

  70. NJ Toast says:

    “Never buy a 3 series, C-Class or Audi, Saab or Volvo brand new as all that is telling people is you are too broke to buy a 5/7 series or S Class.”

    JJ, or they have no need to compensate for their shortcomings with a big car.

    BTW, until they started to have big problems a few years ago, Saab owners had the highest average household net worth of any car mfg (IQ too). A lot of Saab owners have since migrated to Audi. In terms of raw performance, a quattro will drill a Benz and BMW all day long. Cornering speed on the track is vastly superior and on the Parkway, it doesn’t matter because its all straight and slow.

  71. nj escapee says:

    Hoboken quality of life meeting sparks conversation about late night ‘drunken mobs’

    http://www.nj.com/hobokennow/index.ssf/2011/02/hoboken_quality_of_life.html

  72. JJ says:

    Ok guys, put together a list of decent looking girls whose Dads are Billionaires. Wanna be rich better twit or facebook them now!

    Delphine Arnault
    Dylan Lauren
    Anna Anisimova
    Emma and Georgina Bloomberg
    Amanda Hearst

  73. Essex says:

    73. I owned 2 SAAbs before my first Bimmer. (Snicker)

  74. Painhrtz says:

    JJ I’ll take an A8 over and S class any day

    My in laws who are German have never owned a beemer. Only Audi’s, VW’s, and Mercedes. To them owning a beemer is like us owning a Chrysler

  75. Essex says:

    GM ruined SAAB ! Must have been the Unions fault.

  76. JJ says:

    Funny how back around ten years ago snooty liberals with patches on the elbows of their jackets would drive Saabs and Volvos and look down their noses at us American Car drivers yet not realize at the time that Saab was made by GM and Volvo made by Ford.

    Best car is one I almost bought for speed, a STS or CTS V series. Can pick up a used one for around 35K and that thing will blow the doors off any Krout or Jap car out there. My favorite crazy car was I almost bought a used 2007 Caddie STS V series as told wife wow he can fit three car seats in backseat and has a big trunk for family vacations AND it goes 200 Miles per Hour. She was like why would anyone want to put multiple car seats in a car and then drive 200 miles and hour. I was like I could drive to Disney World from New York in under five hours. Heck on the map it is all downhill, bet I could easily hit around 250 mph in the south. Just need to brake around Jacksonville so I can stop by Orlando.

    NJ Toast says:
    February 9, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    “Never buy a 3 series, C-Class or Audi, Saab or Volvo brand new as all that is telling people is you are too broke to buy a 5/7 series or S Class.”

    JJ, or they have no need to compensate for their shortcomings with a big car.

    BTW, until they started to have big problems a few years ago, Saab owners had the highest average household net worth of any car mfg (IQ too). A lot of Saab owners have since migrated to Audi. In terms of raw performance, a quattro will drill a Benz and BMW all day long. Cornering speed on the track is vastly superior and on the Parkway, it doesn’t matter because its all straight and slow.

  77. zieba says:

    I roam the highways in a 9-5 Aero.

    Tangent, re: third name on John’s cut and paste list, even though it may not be Russian:

    I was invited to a superbowl party in the Lincoln Center vicinity (UWS) and was surprised at the number of russian speakers walking the streets!

  78. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    STS seems to be hit or miss. I have had some great ones ( like the one in chester) and some horrible ones that were glorified scams

  79. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    SX,

    Had a fuel pump die on my audi while on the highway at high speed. NOT FUN.

  80. Essex says:

    77. I have driven a few Chryslers and they are not even close to a BMW on any level. Just because your inlaws are German it doesn’t mean they know squat about cars!

  81. nj escapee says:

    My first car was a 63 Saab with a 2 stroke engine. Had to add oil to the tank for every fill up. Maybe had about 40 hp. Bought it from a neighbor for $50.

  82. JJ says:

    http://www.audiusa.com/us/brand/en/owners/main/recalls_campaigns/vin_lookup.html

    Audi is a good car, their website has streamline process to look up defects.

  83. leftwing says:

    Re: Hoboken noise

    Funny thing I learned being on our local BoA is that human voices are exempt from the State’s noise ordinance.

    Being woken up by the clanging of beer bottles….used to live in that big brick building on Washington between Maxwells and that biker bar with the tin ceilings, Cafe Elysian? Anyway, it had an inner courtyard that also fronted on some Elks club hall or such. Was five stories high and brick on all sides, an echo chamber. Better than AA. Come home all banged up, pass out, get woken up by the departing bikes, pass out, get woken up by the bottles being emptied out of the Elks into the echo chamber, pass out, wake up and try to nurse yourself back to health with the tunes from a Puerto Rican wedding reception blaring through the echo chamber. Fun times.

  84. JJ says:

    BTW what type of Oven do they have? My favorite is the German Microwave oven, it seats six.

    Essex says:
    February 9, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    77. I have driven a few Chryslers and they are not even close to a BMW on any level. Just because your inlaws are German it doesn’t mean they know squat about cars!

  85. Essex says:

    80. Actually they had major ever increasing ownership stakes but never made the cars or designed them.

  86. JJ says:

    I hate Puerto Rican weddings. They always combine it with the baby shower and I have to bring two gifts.

  87. Essex says:

    88. Classy. My grandmother was born in the Black Forest lost her folks in that war and still had a perverse pride in German mfg. prowess.

  88. leftwing says:

    “My in laws who are German have never owned a beemer. Only Audi’s, VW’s, and Mercedes. To them owning a beemer is like us owning a Chrysler”

    Early, mid 90s, doing an IPO for a medical company whose CEO was a dentist. Guy was incredibly proud of his new Mercedes, most dentists actually don’t earn that much money and he was pumped. We’re on the roadshow, going to Europe, first stop Munich then Frankfurt. Land Germany, every third taxi a Mercedes. Guy was crestfallen. Couldn’t stop talking about it. At the pricing (which made him quite a wealthy guy) he took the offer and said ‘at least I can get myself a new car that’s not a taxi’.

  89. JJ says:

    Interesting thing is Chrysler made Tanks in WWII and Mercedes made Tanks. The Mercedes Tanks were a marvel and much much better than the Chrysler Tanks. However, the German tanks were over-enginered and could not be quickly fixed by the driver. The Chrysler tanks were simply made and with a small tool box in a matter of minutes you could fix any problem.

    Although the Mercedes tank broke down less it was certain death or capture to driver if it happened.

    Pretty much to this day a Chrysler Jeep Wrangler and a top of the line Mercedes SL are similar.

  90. kid (37)-

    Tell the bank to go fcuk themselves.

  91. JJ says:

    Speaking of Germans they look to be buying NYSE Euronext today

  92. A.West says:

    Essex,
    There are good and bad unions. The good ones are those that are just focused on getting a better overall deal from employers by excercising scale advantages.

    Problem with SAAB is that it was sub scale and lacks adequate product differentiation. GM attempted to improve cost by sharing platform costs with other GM vehicles, but then that reduced the product differentiation. Low volume vehicles have to be special and high priced to make up for the higher unit costs, but SAAB vehicles just aren’t special enough.

  93. kidstar says:

    #38 – Juice Box,

    Bank’s counter offer was 14% higher than the original offer submitted.

  94. Painhrtz says:

    Essex not saying beeemer quality is on par with Chrysler, it is viewed by most Germans as their version of Chrysler.

    Left, Russian guy I used to work with was the same way with his E class, then we went to Hamburg and got in one as a taxi. One man’s luxury is another man’s living.

  95. kid (97)-

    You should Fed Ex a turd to that bank.

  96. A.West says:

    I highly recommend the movie “Waiting For Superman”
    The focus is the failing public school system, contrasted with some successful charter school educators. Shows teachers unions as the primary obstacle to improving education for American children. It is a documentary but isn’t dry at all, and has a number of both heart-wrenching and inspiring stories embedded within it.

  97. kidstar says:

    #39 – 30 year realtor
    #41 – grim

    When the bank must have done a BPO, would the BPO be based on other comparable short sales prices or other comparable “normal sale prices?”

    P.S. I am not the listing or selling agent. I am the buyer. The seller’s lawyer is handling all communication with the bank on behalf of the seller.

  98. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    JJ 93

    It sounds like you are referring to the Tiger Tank and/or the King Tiger. The Panther serious battle tank manufactured by Mercedes was more reliable. German armor outclassed American armor in virtually every aspect, heavier armor larger main guns, etc. What really hurt german armor was the loss of access to critical metal mines that they needed for tank production and the constant bombardment of their production facilities.

  99. zieba says:

    Pain,
    Amen. Also holds true of RE, compare your run of the mill NJ crapbox vs. three level all masonry 4br/3ba villa on the outskirts of Magdeburg or Krakow with a tractor parked next to it and a three legged dog limping about.

  100. Anon E. Moose says:

    leftwing [92];

    I often relate how everywhere else in the world, an E-class is a cab.

    Speacking of crestfallen, most US snobs who;ve barely gotten out of their zip code would sh!t themselves if they ever saw all the Mercedes A-class sub-compacts running around the country. DB would never import them to the US under any brand because it would likely ruin their upper crust image. However, in a country where gas runs around $2(1.50€)/liter, it begins to make sense real quick.

    My rental in Germany was ‘upgraded’ to a smallish Opel mini-van. Fill-ups easily ran me about $100. We did alot of inter-city driving too, visiting the wife’s family now sc@ttered around the country.

  101. JJ says:

    I highly doubt what I learned in school mattered. In fact when I went to Stony Brook a huge player on my hall way graduated with a 1.99 GPA that got rounded to a 2.0 the min for graduation. He was really happy he partied super hard for five years doing just 12 credits a semester and was a huge drug dealer on campus and got every girl and went to every spring break and had a nice car. He celebrated the 1.99 as he knew any more studying for a higher GPA just would have took away from partying. Remember him as a senior with his room door open, him in just boxers lines of coke, bongs and like three freshman girls. Around five years later ran into him in an office building in the lobby in an expensive suit off to visit a client. He was a high flying attorney.

    Pretty much in the USA, HS is bs, college is bs, Just get your act together in grad school and you can land a big job. In asia if you don’t get into good hs your life is over, here ever after barely graduating the worst college you can end up C-Level
    A.West says:
    February 9, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    I highly recommend the movie “Waiting For Superman”
    The focus is the failing public school system, contrasted with some successful charter school educators. Shows teachers unions as the primary obstacle to improving education for American children. It is a documentary but isn’t dry at all, and has a number of both heart-wrenching and inspiring stories embedded within it.

  102. Outofstater says:

    The federal bailout of the states begins: FEMA awards $14.8 million to Altantic City and Camden to “rebuild” their fire departments.

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/02/fema_awards_148m_to_atlantic_c.html

  103. chicagofinance says:

    Too bad you haven’t been gassed yet…..

    91.Essex says:
    February 9, 2011 at 2:25 pm
    88. Classy. My grandmother was born in the Black Forest lost her folks in that war and still had a perverse pride in German mfg. prowess.

  104. make money says:

    John,

    When it comes to cars if it doesn’t end with AMG or start with M, then don’t buy it. Getting a 530i is like getting a cousin of a horse that won the Saratago and Bellmont races. You don’t have the horse you got the step-child cousin.got the I would rather drive a camry or a fusion, at least I won’t be lying to myself!!!

  105. Juice Box says:

    re #104- Rented a 2010 5 Series Diesel on my last trip over the pond during the summer. It was a surpringly great car, but does not hold a candle to the the 2011 model. Apparently the 2011 Model 535d is even better it gets an incredible 43 mpg and can do 0-62 in just 5.7 seconds 300 hp and 440 pound-feet of torque.

    BMW 335d is selling here in the US and they did that SuperBowl Commercial with the drifting, but I don’t want a 3 series, I would take the 5 Series Diesel if I could get one.

  106. NJSerf says:

    (105) God Bless America.

  107. JJ says:

    I drove 30o miles last year to and from train in my BMW.

    make money says:
    February 9, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    John,

    When it comes to cars if it doesn’t end with AMG or start with M, then don’t buy it. Getting a 530i is like getting a cousin of a horse that won the Saratago and Bellmont races. You don’t have the horse you got the step-child cousin.got the I would rather drive a camry or a fusion, at least I won’t be lying to myself!!!

  108. leftwing says:

    For our resident gunners….

    Looking at picking up a side by side. Something nice but not the cost of a large Mercedes. Visited a few shops so I pretty much know what features I want and several makers that feel good.

    Trying to narrow it down and the interweb is making it more, not less, confusing. Anyone have an opinion on the European manufacturers generally with regard to quality, durability? Was originally looking at Arrieta, Beretta, Wm Evans, and possibly Grulla? Now seeing some interesting Bernardellis and Merkels?

  109. Essex says:

    107. Nope, we missed that funfest by a generation or two and a country.

  110. Essex says:

    108. I actually love the M but find it relatively useless on the roads here. If you are getting max HP at 7 – 8k RPM, where the hell are you going to find a place to run that car? No, the BMW 3 liter is a nice basic transport that gives comfort and some degree of handling. Much nicer and more peppy than a Camry.

  111. Painhrtz says:

    Left what kind of butt stock do you want European or American? Waht kind of shooting is it for? That type of info helps a little. If your getting it for a mantle piece, any will do. If your getting it for skeet/trap you’ll want a gun with interchangable chokes. What guagues are you looking at, 12, 16, 20 28? I favor a 20 gauge over under personally for my gerneal shoot around shotgun, and a 12 gauge pump for my deer gun. Benelli used to make a beautiful side by side don’t know if it is still in production. Berretta and Belgian Brownings tend to be reasonable cost with high end looks.

  112. JJ says:

    SSC Ultimate Aero TT

    Made from carbon fiber, steel and titanium and decked out with so-called butterfly doors, the SSC Ultimate Aero TT holds the Guinness World Record for fastest production car, having blasted down a two-lane highway in Washington state in 2007 at 257 mph. It pulls zero to 60 mph in 2.78 seconds thanks to its 1,094 lb-ft of torque and 1,183 horsepower — more grunt than any other street car.

  113. Painhrtz says:

    Left Bird and clay has some beauties

    http://www.birdnclay.com/ss.html

  114. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [76] SX

    ” I owned 2 SAAbs before my first Bimmer. (Snicker)”

    Never took you for a masochist. No one I know who owns a Saab has anything good to say about it.

    I had my audi. No more euro iron for me. I care not for the status, and as for performance, it’s a poor workman who blames his tools.

  115. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [88,90] JJ

    By my calculation, you still haven’t insulted Fijians, Croatians, Ukrainians, or New Zealanders.

    Day is still young. Can we get an un-PC gem?

  116. Anon E. Moose says:

    JJ [105];

    Nice tale. The plural of anecdote is not data.

    Assuming for a moment its true, I smell family money. You simply don’t get into any kind of reputable law school on a 2.0 GPA without it. I don’t care if he rocked the LSAT. On the other hand, if he had family money, he can go to some bucket shop law school and have the family connections to get him someplace where he can wear a nice suit but not do too much harm.

    Also, even if he does defy the odds and make it on social skills alone, are you hiring him to represent you? Maybe for your next house closing? Further the affiant sayeth naught.

  117. Essex says:

    118. I had two winners. Both Ragtops. Both warrantied. Once was a gold colored ragtop. 900 SE I believe. The other was a really nice 9-3 Sport edition with the Viggen package. I got rid of both eventually. They were kick-ass cars.

  118. leftwing says:

    Pain

    Weird, that BirdClay manufactures 10k SxS guns annually and they never popped up. Thx.

    I’ll use it mostly for field and sporting clays so it can have fixed chokes. May knock around with it once and a while for trap for kicks and giggles if my shoulder can withstand it but I have a heavy O/U for that. Looking mostly 12 which may be overkill for the field, OK with a 20. Partial to an English stock and double trigger. Need reliability and durability – it will be shot – but want to go beyond just practicality to something that also looks nice. Doesn’t need to be new and if I go higher end I would actually prefer it to be used.

    Some Beretta models fit all of the above, problem is most of their LOPs are 14-14.5 and I need at least a 15 1/4. Some have offered to attach a pad but if the gun is decent looking a nice pad isn’t cheap.

    Some guys have directed me to Arrietas as ‘80% of an English gun at 50% of the cost’ but I hear of quality control problems. Counter is that those problems were with low end guns specifically manufactured to be very inexpensive and often for the domestic market. One shop has a nice Wm Evans, not familiar with them at all but per the dealer it is the “farmer’s Purdy”.

    Frustrating, I’d just like to narrow it down to three or four models I know I like and are from quality manufacturers and then shop them.

    Do you know anything about the German Merkel?

  119. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    leftwing,

    i dont have much experience with SxS but i have heard a number of complaints about Arrietas

  120. Schrodinger's Cat says:

    Pain,

    Did you see that ambassadors from all 260 embassys have been recalled for a conference? It is apparently the first time ever and the conference looks inconsequential from the public agenda.

    /tinfoil on

  121. New in FL says:

    Modern Drunkard Magazine

    http://www.drunkard.com/index.html

  122. JJ says:

    I also have a buddy who graduated stony brook with a 2.0, parents were poor but dreamed their only child would be a doctor. He wen to the University of Monserat West Indies, barely graduated, worked on chop up cadaivers. Then did his residency in England, first patent he saw was first live patient, he botched up many patents then took something called MSKIPS that lets him into US where he was hired as an emergency room doctor in Florida and now is a successful doctor making boatloads of cash.

    Asians are fixated on A’s in HS and College make you rich. Very true in first few years of career. Does not matter over 30. All my friends make on average several hundred thousand a year, all were C students in college. A students are Pharmists working in CVS.

    Anon E. Moose says:
    February 9, 2011 at 4:39 pm
    JJ [105];

    Nice tale. The plural of anecdote is not data.

    Assuming for a moment its true, I smell family money. You simply don’t get into any kind of reputable law school on a 2.0 GPA without it. I don’t care if he rocked the LSAT. On the other hand, if he had family money, he can go to some bucket shop law school and have the family connections to get him someplace where he can wear a nice suit but not do too much harm.

    Also, even if he does defy the odds and make it on social skills alone, are you hiring him to represent you? Maybe for your next house closing? Further the affiant sayeth naught.

  123. d2b says:

    Moose-
    Another give away to familial connections is the brazen behavior that one has when breaking the law.

    Nothing worse than catching an affluent kid shoplifting. First they can’t believe that they are getting arrested. Next, they know their rights and want to have a trial with the arresting officer serving as judge; they don’t understand why they can’t just pay for it and leave. When they show up in court with a lawyer, I give the lawyer a chance to plea bargain it out or we go in front of the Judge. We refer him as Judge Dave since his family shops in our stores. The smart ones take the plea bargain.

  124. JJ says:

    Loss Prevention in stores. My buddy did it. They only arrest the ones they think will repeat, the kids they usually take their picture write down their SS number say they are putting in into some type of BS national data base, claim if they ever see them in store they will arest them, maybe call their parents. My buddy was a realy nice guy. He was in charge of Loss Prevention for Pergaments. But the guy was gigantic. I mean like six foot four 300 pounds, if the kid was giving trouble they would bring him in to scare them. Guy loved scaring 17 year old kids for stealing pimple cream or something. But never called cops, he saved that for the second time or the real shop lifters. Waste of company time and money to call cops on pimple cream thieves.

    d2b says:
    February 9, 2011 at 5:18 pm
    Moose-
    Another give away to familial connections is the brazen behavior that one has when breaking the law.

    Nothing worse than catching an affluent kid shoplifting. First they can’t believe that they are getting arrested. Next, they know their rights and want to have a trial with the arresting officer serving as judge; they don’t understand why they can’t just pay for it and leave. When they show up in court with a lawyer, I give the lawyer a chance to plea bargain it out or we go in front of the Judge. We refer him as Judge Dave since his family shops in our stores. The smart ones take the plea bargain.

  125. Painhrtz says:

    Cat that can’t be good

    Left, I’m 5′ 10 so 14.5 has always been kind and I shoot a Charles Daly over under spanish import. covet the Berretta but if I could find a pre 80’s Belgian o/u used I would grab it in a nano second.

    My only experience with the Merkel was with a guy in Hamburg at the airport counter, I inquired said he loved them, no experience stateside. Stay away from boutique Italian guns high price tag, low quality. If it is a field gun and for clays I would go with the 20 but finding one with a 15 inch LOP could prove difficult.

  126. chicagofinance says:

    Cisco getting fried AGAIN…suckas….Chambers need his fudge packed better…..

  127. leftwing says:

    Pain, thx.

    One last question, any thoughts on 16s?

  128. gary says:

    “The sky started to fall in today,” Christie said of the change in the credit rating.

    Not to fear: we’re insulated here because of our proximity to New York.

  129. Essex says:

    126. You slay me — you run with a wild crowd there bro.

  130. Essex says:

    130. Fudge Packed?

  131. gary says:

    70. Essex says:
    February 9, 2011 at 1:43 pm
    Christie will make a run for President, cause the GOP is just that bereft of talent.

    I’d vote for a morphine-addicted transvesdite before that bullshi1t artist community organizer currently wasting our time.

  132. Just tell me who to shoot, what to blow up and what to burn to the ground.

  133. Anon E. Moose says:

    JJ [128];

    So now we’ve heard you describe both your counsel of choice and your regular physician? Or maybe when you’re on the table in a green gown looking up at the bright lights you consider something more important than what greek letters he’s got tatooed on his butt cheeks and how much blow he snorted as an undergrad?

  134. Oh, baby:

    “Above is the video of the service of writ on a Deadbeat Bank for failure to pay attorney fees to a foreclosure defense attorney. The bank involved in this mornings event was Virtual Bank in Palm Beach Gardens FL.”

    Pure law-on-bankster p0rn here, kiddies-

    http://4closurefraud.org/2011/02/09/deadbeat-bank-raw-video-of-sherriff-serving-writ-on-bank/

  135. Essex says:

    135. You got a point there.

  136. 30 year realtor says:

    101 Kid – too little info to be meaningful. Even if you are right, it doesn’t mean you get the house.

  137. chicagofinance says:

    134.Essex says:
    February 9, 2011 at 6:34 pm
    130. Fudge Packed?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WX7BNnYTf8

  138. 30 year realtor says:

    #119 Nom – I thought #14 was a gem.

  139. Essex says:

    Bayer may bring 2,000-job campus to Wayne

  140. freedy says:

    Wayne will change the name to BayerTown to do the deal

  141. Essex says:

    Old Berlex Bldg. probably. Good company though.

  142. NJGator says:

    Only the best and brightest, folks. 3 hours after this was posted, Rep. Lee resigned..

    http://gawker.com/#!5755071/married-gop-congressman-sent-sexy-pictures-to-craigslist-babe

  143. Juice Box says:

    I think they should call Bernie to the stand.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110209/bs_nm/us_madoff_jpmorgan

  144. Barbara says:

    145. Gator
    wow, three hours! I bet he didn’t even get the hook up.

  145. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Rutgers shocks Villanova. Was like a damn Big Dance game. To RU, it was.

    There’s a bus on its way back to Radnor, PA right now, and the screaming emanating from it from all the new azzholes being torn can be heard halfway up the Turnpike.

  146. Gaby says:

    Enjoy the fresh layout. I were pleased with the content. Thanks for the impressive post.

  147. Pharmd281 says:

    Hello! ddceage interesting ddceage site!

  148. Pharma261 says:

    Very nice site! [url=http://aieopxy.com/osoayov/2.html]cheap cialis[/url]

  149. Pharmb21 says:

    Hello! ccfgeba interesting ccfgeba site!

  150. Pharmk104 says:

    Very nice site! [url=http://aixopey.com/qqvoqt/2.html]cheap cialis[/url]

Comments are closed.