Will retiring boomers drive the vacation home market?

From MarketWatch:

Low prices lure vacation-home buyers

Last year, Kelley and Jeff Barton bought their first vacation home in Mammoth Lakes, Calif., a ski-resort area about 350 miles from where they live in Seal Beach, Calif.

At $200,000, the condo unit was a bargain considering it had been priced at more than $400,000 in the past, said Barton, 52. Plus, since the couple rent out the home when the family isn’t using it, they’re able to cover their mortgage payments and all their expenses — and make a profit.

Lately, more people are wondering if the market is ripe for turning the dream of owning a vacation retreat into a reality.

Prices on vacation homes have fallen even more sharply than on primary homes. Last year alone, the median price of a vacation home fell 11%, while the price of a typical primary residence fell 5%, according to the National Association of Realtors’ annual Investment and Vacation Home Buyers Survey, which includes information from about 1,900 buyers.

In some cases, people are scooping up cabins in the woods for less than $100,000, said Charlie Young, president and chief executive of ERA Real Estate, a residential real-estate brokerage franchiser. Even some individuals who rent their primary residences are looking to buy a vacation property in a more affordable market, Young said.

But unlike a primary residence, a vacation home is a discretionary purchase, and in times of financial uncertainty, people are reluctant to shell out unnecessary funds.

It’s wise to think about a vacation-home purchase carefully, looking at the financial and tax implications, and monthly maintenance costs, said Michael Kay, president of Financial Focus, an investment advisory firm in Livingston, N.J. Potential buyers also should consider the opportunity cost of making the purchase, or the benefits of investing the money elsewhere, he said.

Dan White, president of Daniel A. White & Associates, a wealth-management firm in the Philadelphia area, said prospective vacation-home buyers need to be cautious before acquiring more debt, carefully considering the stability of their employment before committing to another mortgage. White said he has worked with many people in their 50s who suddenly find themselves out of work. And if they have a second mortgage on a vacation home, that becomes a big problem.

Before buying, you also need to come to terms with how much you really will use the home and how you will maintain it, said Troy Thiel, a real-estate agent with First Weber Group in Madison, Wis.

An important factor for many people is how long it takes them to get to the vacation home: A two-hour drive from their primary residence is often more palatable than a four- to five-hour trip.

Some baby boomers are seizing an opportunity to get a deal on a vacation home they can enjoy now but that’s also a home that eventually will become their primary residence when they retire, Thiel said.

“That’s one of the primary drivers in the market: people selling their big house and buying a smaller home or condo in their current market and using the equity to purchase the second home,” he said.

According to the National Association of Realtors’ survey, 34% of people who purchased a vacation home in 2010 plan on using that property as a primary residence at some point in the future.

This entry was posted in Economics, Housing Recovery, National Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

143 Responses to Will retiring boomers drive the vacation home market?

  1. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  2. grim says:

    From the NYT:

    Chronicle of a Project Foreclosed

    Every detail of 5 Franklin Place was mapped out: Bosch washers and dryers, cantilevered staircases wrapping around cylindrical glass elevators and a facade with reflective black metal bands that would twist like ribbons and, just maybe, make Frank Gehry squirm.

    But the condominium planned for TriBeCa with the dizzyingly ambitious vision of a small development firm, and an exotic design by the Dutch architect Ben van Berkel, may stand out as one of the worst casualties of the city’s banking and housing crises.

    Many new developments, of course, were stalled or thwarted by the economy’s tumble, but the mortgage note on the condo project, which was to have risen 20 stories and contained 55 luxury apartments, has been sold twice. Now a foreclosure auction for the property, with a $47.04 million lien on it, is scheduled for Sept. 12.

  3. But NYC is different.

    Yeah, right.

    It’s all going from gray to black, folks. No one will be spared. Learn to love the stench of death.

  4. grim says:

    From Time:

    Foreclosures Are Bad for Your Health

    Losing your home is a nightmare—enough to make you sick to your stomach, and then some. Just how stressful is it to go through a foreclosure? A new study indicates that a rise in foreclosures correlates to an increase in serious hypertension problems, ER visits, and suicide attempts.

    The study, titled “Is the Foreclosure Crisis Making Us Sick?” and written by a pair of economists for the National Bureau of Economic Research, shows that for every increase of 100 foreclosures in a zip code, there’s a corresponding rise in health issues for people in the normally healthy age group of 20 to 49: an 8.1% increase in diabetes, 7.2% more ER visits and hospitalizations for hypertension, and 12% more visits to doctors related to anxiety. A rise in foreclosures was also associated with a 39% increase in trips to the hospital related to suicide attempts.

    Precise cause and effect is always hard to nail down, notes a Wall Street Journal story about the newly published research paper. The health problems may be caused by all sorts of financial and personal issues—credit card debt, unemployment, marital and familial distress related to all of the above—rather than foreclosures specifically. Areas where foreclosure rates have spiked are also likely to have residents who don’t have jobs or health insurance.

    It may not just be foreclosure victims arriving at hospitals—but neighbors also grappling with depleting equity in their biggest investment.

    “You see foreclosures having a general effect on the neighborhood,” [one of the study’s authors, Princeton University’s Janet] Currie says. “Everybody’s stressed out. There is a connection between people’s economic well being and their physical well being.”

  5. Where’s sas? Does he only come here at the Lehman moments?

  6. grim says:

    Here you go Clot..

    From Bloomberg:

    For the Economy, the Real Slam Dunk Is Debt Forgiveness: View

    U.S. homeowners don’t need another reduction in their mortgage payments. What they need is a break on their debts.

    As President Barack Obama prepares to present his job- creation plans to Congress this week, his advisers are studying what some economists have called a “slam-dunk stimulus.” The idea: Push mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to refinance the loans of millions of homeowners who otherwise wouldn’t qualify because they owe more than their houses are worth.

    With mortgage rates at extreme lows, such a move could free up billions of dollars in spending money. Also, by focusing on borrowers who are current on their payments, it would reward people who have acted responsibly — as opposed to previous mortgage-modification programs, which have been limited mainly to defaulters.

    Attractive as it sounds, the slam dunk would in some ways miss the hoop. For one thing, the potential boost would be pretty small in the context of the $15 trillion U.S. economy. Economists at Goldman Sachs estimate that it would provide U.S. consumers with an added $20 billion to $40 billion, enough to increase annual economic growth by only 0.1 to 0.3 percentage point. Beyond that, the sudden demand for new mortgages could actually defeat its own purpose by prompting banks to push rates back up again.

  7. grim says:

    From the NYT:

    From Rep. John Conyers: Easing Homeowners’ Debt

    You are right that the federal government could do much more to help homeowners climb out from underwater mortgages, and that banks have done far less than they can for homeowners seeking relief.

    The key to unlocking the mortgage foreclosure crisis is the passage of a federal law allowing homeowners to reduce their mortgage debt to no more than the current value of their property.

    Homeowners and the federal government have not had much leverage to get banks to stop the mortgage crisis. Current law discourages banks from voluntarily making loan adjustments that homeowners need. Giving homeowners the right to reduce their debt through recognized legal processes would no doubt provide additional incentives for lenders to work with borrowers.

    This is neither a new nor a radical proposal. In 1986, Congress passed a law that allowed family farmers to modify their mortgages in response to a similar foreclosure crisis. It was so successful that in 2005, with bipartisan support, it was made permanent law. If only we could do for struggling homeowners today what we did for family farmers 25 years ago.

  8. yo'me says:

    WHO IS BUYING SWISS FRANCS?

    The Swiss central bank imposed a ceiling on the franc’s exchange rate for the first time in more than three decades and pledged to defend the target with the “utmost determination.”

    The Swiss National Bank is “aiming for a substantial and sustained weakening of the franc,” the Zurich-based bank said in an e-mailed statement today. “With immediate effect, it will no longer tolerate a euro-franc exchange rate below the minimum rate of 1.20 francs” and “is prepared to buy foreign currency in unlimited quantities.”

    The franc has surged to records against the euro and the dollar, hurting exports and eroding economic growth. While the SNB last month boosted liquidity to the money market and lowered borrowing costs to zero, investor concern that governments may struggle to contain Europe’s worsening debt crisis has continued to push the currency higher.

    “The SNB has committed itself to creating unlimited amounts of francs and selling them versus the euro to defend the currency’s level,” said Fabian Heller, an economist at Credit Suisse Group AG in Zurich. “They will follow through on their commitment as otherwise their credibility would be clearly damaged and speculation would start again, most likely leading to renewed franc gains.”

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-06/swiss-national-bank-sets-minimum-exchange-rate-of-1-20-against-the-euro.html

  9. 3b says:

    #2 Personally I think Tribeca is a dump, but what do I know.

  10. Mike says:

    No. 6 BO and his economists need to forget all this crap and let nature take it’s course. You bought now it yours. If you can’t handle it sell at a major loss and move into an apartment. Stimulate this.

  11. 3b says:

    gary: From yesterday. I am totally shocked that you would even consider buying in Montclair!!!

  12. JJ says:

    why would a retired person want a second home? I could see a retirement home. Too much work. On Monday alone I had to fix siding that blew off, replace a light switch and fix a pool pump. Imagine two homes. And you can’t hire people to do

  13. mefeseled says:

    ediLeLoMemise jufufduy Quekcealley

  14. Libtard at home says:

    1.94!

    Almost time to refinance the multi. I hope everyone kept their credit clean.

  15. chicagofinance says:

    #1 You just restated my point. OK – there are people who have great credentials who are morons. That fact does not in itself devalue the crendential as a whole. Of course if you want to rationalize in a fit of jealously, at least be honest about it.

    #2 Ever heard of an alumni network? I’m sure yours either doesn’t exist or it sucks.

    #3 If you are in sales, then you appreciate perception, and how it creates opportunity. How many times have people pulled the trigger because my pieces of paper gave me the benefit of the doubt? ….I assume you don’t care.

    Essex says:
    September 6, 2011 at 12:00 am
    What I find fascinating is those who for some reason cling to their schools like some baby blanket that should entitle them to instant credibility and respect. Where I have watched in many cases “well educated” people perform their duties with complete incompetence and look to “me” to help them out.

    Fortunately, I am removed from the corporate world now but as I reflect on the past I actually have the insight that simply says anyone who is leaning on “where” they studied 10, 20, 30 years after the fact has not learned a thing. Usually these folks are incredibly insecure and equally ineffectual.

  16. chicagofinance says:

    3b says:
    September 6, 2011 at 8:45 am
    #2 Personally I think Tribeca is a dump, but what do I know.

    I think it is one of the best neighborhoods in the city. Great restaurants…kid friendly…kind of quiet….

  17. JJ says:

    Chifi, hey welcome back, Hey Junk is calling my name again!! Any favorites. BTW your pieces of paper means nothing to me. I do the string and a rock technique to judge my advisors.

  18. Xroads says:

    #10 mike

    My question is if you write down to current values what happens if the market drops another %10-15. Are we facing another moral hazard situation where people demand a second write down?

  19. JJ says:

    Funny I keep reading about 9/11 workers who got sick. No mention is made of the fact they mostly got paid to clean it up. It was a huge cash cow as they paid union rates with time and a 1/2. Workers got paid a boat load to clean it up, some were logging hours multiple times as recordkeeping was very shakey. That place was a toxic fume of gases, dangerous as all heck. I was in WTC on September 7th 2011, next time downtown was November 2011. I turned down work managing people in the clean up as it was way too dangerous. WTC was like working in a absestos plant or smoking in the 1950s, no one yet officially declared it to be dangerous but pretty much everyone knew. I pretty much stayed away as much as I could from downtown till 2002. I was lucky as my client was in WTC at time, so we had to go to midtown. The folks in firms right near WTC were worse off as they had to go back and that fumes were around for a few months.

  20. MopIgnott says:

    [url=http://sleepnowinfo.com]Sleep Therapy[/url]

  21. 3b says:

    #16 Agreed the restaurants are good etc. And I guess as kid friendly as one could expect from living in Manhattan, but the physical area to me is a dump.

  22. 3b says:

    #18 And what happens to the House Right next door, that might have a similar mtg and is not written down??

  23. Juice Box says:

    Tribeca’s population has doubled in the last decade since all of the artists lofts and small factories were converted to condos, it is no longer the gritty place for night life. Few of us here would be willing to spring for the rents either. Asking 18k a month for some of the newer high rises, like the tall weird looking Ghery building off Canal St right by the Holland Tunnel exits and entrances. Not too long ago this area used to be infested with illegal underground clubs where you could exit and entrance all you wanted.

    http://www.newyorkbygehry.com/?source=nybits#new-york-by-gehry

  24. Anon E. Moose says:

    Mike [10];

    I have become convinced of this: the deadbeats shall inherit the earth.

  25. Prof. McDullard says:

    It looks like 2008 all over again! Time to buy? Sitting POTUS makes small gestures while everything around is crashing, and keeps talking about tax cuts. All we need is a young idealist (-ic sounding?) person making reasonable promises to give us hope. O’s preemptive surrender on clean air rules moves him so far corporate friendly and to the right of Dubya, Clinton, GHB, Saint Reagan, Carter, and even Nixon. He lied to America that he will fight for the common people…

    Gary, you may even get a few K tax credit for your house in Montklair, and soon Shore will be asking me whether I am a republican yet, and this time, he will make more sense to me.

    Time to buy S&P again?

  26. Prof. McDullard says:

    JJ,

    “Funny I keep reading about 9/11 workers who got sick. No mention is made of the fact they mostly got paid to clean it up. It was a huge cash cow as they paid union rates with time and a 1/2. Workers got paid a boat load to clean it up, some were logging hours multiple times as recordkeeping was very shakey. ”

    Don’t you think death by throat cancer is a bit way too much of a punishment for those greedy guys that worked for money?

  27. 3b says:

    #23 Juice: I know it is highly desireable, for some. I just find it a very ugly area.

  28. Mike says:

    No. 18 Xroads The people who really make out are the ones in flood areas they get a write down to zero

  29. Juice Box says:

    re # 26- McDullard – please already check yourself. Death by throat cancer? I walked through the WTC dust to work for the entire 8 months it took to clean it up and beyond and I tracked home that dust on my shoes and clothing every day. I used to stare at the amount of dust on the sidewalks and wonder how much of it was human remains as it blew all around lower Manhattan. There is no chance for me to get any comp if I come down with throat cancer. Rates for cancer amongst workers who did the cleanup will be higher thant he general population for sure. I will agree yes but perhaps overlooking the fact that many of them heavy smokers, and worked on many other projects while smoking over their careers contributed and perhaps caused the cancer. Don’t let facts get in the way of the potential payout for the lawyers and cleanup workers everyone involved after the fact wants a payoff because of 9/11.

  30. Xroads says:

    3G 22

    It seems like they’re going to target underwater homeowners who are current. I guess if you don’t ask you won’t get a write down. Will these modifications include those who received 8k stimulus? Will that be considered double dipping?

  31. 3b says:

    #30 X: It seems to me this as I have always said will create a whole lot more uncertainity in the housing market, and has the potentail to drive prices down even more.

  32. JJ says:

    I think they are nuts to have done it. BTW Port Authority a few weeks after 9/11 had to hire consultants to track workers hours. Many electricians, demo guys, welders etc, would show up at WTC sign in and go to day jobs come back sign out and get paid. Was a free for all first few weeks until tasks were clearly defined as daily work measured by worker. No way of really knowing who was there first few weeks. Other issue is all those volunteers who came to dig for fallen workers and family members. No much safety equipment, no one asked them to go and it was extremely dangerous. Not much records made of volunteers as no time sheets. In retrospect it was a big mess, mob members stealing scrap metal, ATMs being looted, grieving family members screaming, body parts being found halting work every ten minutes, it was not even orgainzed kaos first few weeks, it was just kaos. Read a nice story in the WSJ today about a firm I was working at during 9/11. Sanitized version of pure insantity after 9/11. Working with people with fresh burns a short time after 9/11. Hyper Hyper Sensitive workers who survived mixed in with out of town family barging into office unannounced to meet co-workers completely hysterical. That guy in charge of 9/11 fund had some job. Can’t wait for day to come and go. Hope whoever bought my Jets tickets enjoys the game.

    Prof. McDullard says:
    September 6, 2011 at 9:56 am
    JJ,

    “Funny I keep reading about 9/11 workers who got sick. No mention is made of the fact they mostly got paid to clean it up. It was a huge cash cow as they paid union rates with time and a 1/2. Workers got paid a boat load to clean it up, some were logging hours multiple times as recordkeeping was very shakey. ”

    Don’t you think death by throat cancer is a bit way too much of a punishment for those greedy guys that worked for money?

  33. gary says:

    I didn’t say I was buying in Montclair, I just said I would consider looking as I love the neighborhoods. I bike ride through Upper Montclair all the time and it’s always been a favorite neighborhood of mine. I’ll probably come to my senses when I see the property taxes.

  34. JJ says:

    You just described the assessment process.

    Xroads says:
    September 6, 2011 at 10:21 am
    3G 22

    It seems like they’re going to target underwater homeowners who are current. I guess if you don’t ask you won’t get a write down. Will these modifications include those who received 8k stimulus? Will that be considered double dipping?

  35. Prof. McDullard says:

    Juice,

    They inhaled way too much of carcinogens (perhaps out of a misplaced sense of not being too selfish to wear protective equipment). Denying them medical benefits is wrong on so many levels. Even looking at the numbers, the 4 to 5B is peanuts compared to what we spent/d in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    If you ever get severe medical complications because of the stuff you inhaled at WTC, and you you are denied proper medical treatment, I can assure you that a lot of people will fight for you. Change your opinion already!

  36. Prof. McDullard says:

    JJ, one simple solution, if you worked in that area (for enough time and have some rudimentary proof) and you have medical symptoms, you will be given free medical care. I don’t think people will line up for needless chemo if it is free. There are smart doctors around (can’t say more without outing myself badly), and if we are willing to take a position along the lines of … it’s OK even if 5 or 10% of the recipients are getting medical benefits that they do not necessarily deserve.

    Better err on the side of good (and risk some people taking advantage of the situation) than to err on the side of efficiency (and risk some deserving people not getting adequate care).

    May be I am thinking like an engineer and not like an MBA?

  37. JJ says:

    Those guys had basically a 50 hour a week cig break.

  38. grim (6)-

    Can’t refi negative equity. Any and all attempts to do so will end in tears.

    However, this is excellent- and final- proof that Phony and Fraudy are nothing more than pre-determined, planned bankruptcy/bailout vehicles.

    I have been convinced of this since 2007, and nothing I have seen since disproves my theory.

  39. Juice Box says:

    re: #35 McDullard – you don’t know much about the asbestos treadmill of litigation do you? My old man worked with the friable stuff for over 3 decades and never got cancer yet still got a nice payout.

    If a study were to be done on those approx 16k ground zero workers today 10 years later, asthma not lung or throat cancer would be the leading issue, they would also find high blood pressure, anxiety and post-traumatic stress disorder but not lung or throat cancer in those that did not smoke cigarettes.

    It’s been 10 years, there weren’t mass cancers and it is time to move on already.

  40. chicagofinance says:

    3b says:
    September 6, 2011 at 10:04 am
    #23 Juice: I know it is highly desireable, for some. I just find it a very ugly area.

    Where specifically? A lot of the cruddy stuff has been gutted or completely levelled. From a NYC perpsective, not so great, but aesthetics? The true eyesores are those sterile brick middle income housing towers. The crud was everything south of Chambers, but because of Ground Zero, almost all that stuff is turning over…..

  41. grim (7)-

    Invoking “family farmers” and “fairness” doesn’t change the fact that this would be an event of default by any strict interpretation. Of course, Phony/Fraudy is a sui generis financial garbage can to which no normal principles of finance and credit reporting apply.

    What’s even more scary is that toads like Conyers have no clue as to what the intended/unintended fallout from this would be.

  42. AAA, baby. AAA.

    Until it’s not. Then, the world goes to hell.

  43. 3b (11)-

    He wants to run for public office there. :)

    “gary: From yesterday. I am totally shocked that you would even consider buying in Montclair!!!”

  44. Too bad Montklair has no position titled “dictator”.

  45. 3b (22)-

    You are obviously a mean and soulless Tea Party person.

    Each according to his own need, pal. Get with the program.

    “And what happens to the House Right next door, that might have a similar mtg and is not written down??”

  46. In another 20 years, everyone in Amerika will be entitled to some kind of disability benefit.

    Life imitates Wall-e.

  47. When the grain alcohol finally eats a hole in my brain, I’m filing for perm. disability.

  48. Prof. McDullard says:

    Juice, I used throat cancer as an example for dramatic effect. Of course, other problems are more common. It is a pretty complex problem trying to figure out what people got exposed to so many years after the fact, but it is a problem that needs to be solved…

  49. chicagofinance says:

    Time for the next board GTG….
    http://njsocialistparty.org/

  50. 3b says:

    #45 Current and potential homeowners should be very concerned about this; that is of course if they are even paying attention.

  51. freedy says:

    stopped in an A&P today. Food stamps is a wonderful program. Watched the basket fill up ,the women in front of me. speaks to the cashier in spanish and whole conversation is in spanish . Food stamp card comes out , me I pay cash stupid .

  52. Prof. McDullard says:

    Juice,

    “you don’t know much about the asbestos treadmill of litigation do you? My old man worked with the friable stuff for over 3 decades and never got cancer yet still got a nice payout.”

    As long as all the deserving people got something out of it, I wouldn’t begrudge the ones that got freebies.

    Oh, may be your dad got a raw deal… the exposures might have messed up the genes he passed to the offspring, see how bad you’ve become.

    I’m joking… I’m joking…

  53. Mike says:

    Like Karen Carpenter said “Rainy Days And Mondays Always Get Me Down”

  54. Juice Box says:

    McDullard – Go down to Eamonn’s on Murray St at lunch time. The cause of many of the “other problems” can be found there.

  55. Mike says:

    Hey it’s Tuesday Oh Well

  56. Prof. McDullard says:

    Juice, if my thing works, I may end up going there at some point. :)

  57. chicagofinance says:

    This is just so cleansing of the soul…..

    In one sense, politicians are not really the problem. The core of the economic problems in America lies in the fact that 5% of the population controls 85% of the wealth. This richest 5% will take any measure to protect its wealth – even if it means ruining the lives of millions of Americans. As a result, we need politics that will get at the 85% of the wealth and to put it to work creating a better future for us all. We need politicians that are brave enough to declare independence from the rich and who have ideas capable of confronting this deep inequality.

    America needs more than the piecemeal jobs bills Obama has put forward as part of his public relations push before the 2012 elections. Poor and working class people need a permanent full employment economy. The right
    to a job should be a civil right. There is plenty of infrastructure to build, plenty of classrooms that need teachers, plenty of environmental cleanup that needs to be done and a seemingly endless supply of creative people who should be put to work. We can show that we have learned from the mistakes of the last four years by employing democratic socialist economics to rebuild our economy from the bottom up.

    And socialism is all about using democracy to reclaim the 85% of the wealth currently held by the richest 5%. The history of giveaways to the rich goes deeper than the Obama Administration. Taxation on the highest earners has declined from a rate of around 90% in the 1960’s to 35% percent today. Corporate tax rates have had a similar decline, from 50% in the 60s to around 30% today. Some big corporations like General Electric did not even pay taxes last year! These tax breaks for the rich have driven necessary public programs to the brink of bankruptcy. Socialism will deliver an economic bill of justice to the rich.

  58. Shore Guy says:

    “why would a retired person want a second home?”

    To stave off boredom and the feeling of being trapped in a retirement home, in a place that may offer tax breaks but little deep satisfaction. With two small homes, one can reap the tax rewards of a low tax state, perhaps also gaining more nice weather in winter, while also always having the option of being someplace else for awhile — with your own stuff surrounding you. With two places, there is always the option for change — which is good for morale and the mind.

  59. Shore Guy says:

    “5% of the population controls 85% of the wealth. ”

    Hummm, those that have provern their ability to acquire and manage money control much of it. What were the odds? And, if “we” took it away and redistributed it to the other 95%, what are the odds that the money would be managed well?

  60. JJ says:

    The majority of home owners don’t even itemize, the vast majority of retirees don’t itemize. Even if you did, a write off is only worth at most 40 cents on a dollar. Why own to get a write off? You can rent elsewhere, or even better just use someone elses address. I guess a small condo/coop in Florida bought in a BK with low maint might make sense given NY tax rate, but taken on a second home maint would kill you.

    Shore Guy says:
    September 6, 2011 at 11:49 am
    “why would a retired person want a second home?”

    To stave off boredom and the feeling of being trapped in a retirement home, in a place that may offer tax breaks but little deep satisfaction. With two small homes, one can reap the tax rewards of a low tax state, perhaps also gaining more nice weather in winter, while also always having the option of being someplace else for awhile — with your own stuff surrounding you. With two places, there is always the option for change — which is good for morale and the mind.

  61. Juice Box says:

    re # 60- Second homes are some times RVs, not just second homes in Florida for the New York snow birds. JJ do you plan on spending your retirement walking around Long Island malls in black socks and jorts just like you spent the 1970s?

  62. 3b says:

    #64 Nah, he will be walking around with his pants pulled up to his chest, wearing over sized glasses.

  63. He will become the Dos Equis man.

  64. chi (59)-

    Is that Krugman?

  65. JJ says:

    Yes, actually I plan on traveling, I often debate about selling my shack, but fact is homeowners and real estate taxes combined are around 10K a year which is cheaper than rent. With a declining stock mkt and rates near zero not much income stream off cash. Better to keep the shack and travel.

    Juice Box says:
    September 6, 2011 at 11:57 am
    re # 60- Second homes are some times RVs, not just second homes in Florida for the New York snow birds. JJ do you plan on spending your retirement walking around Long Island malls in black socks and jorts just like you spent the 1970s?

  66. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [49] chifi

    They are located in Red Bank??? Hmmm. Aren’t you near there?

  67. jamil says:

    “The right to a job should be a civil right.”

    We have right to a job. You just need to find somebody who is willing to pay for your skills. Majoring in Chicano studies and writing thesis, in gibberish, about post-gender normatism in the era of race, class and sex may impress your buddies in huffpo/wapo/nyt, but nobody wants your “skills” outside of state media/gov/DNC.

    “There is plenty of infrastructure to build”,

    Yeah, those shovel ready infra jobs we already spent 1 trillion in 2008.
    Those airports with 0 customers certainly should have $100M upgrades if local admin crony/congresscritter happens to live in the district.

    “plenty of classrooms that need teachers”,

    Students results are going down despite increase in number of teachers (and higher salary and taxpayer funded projects to hand out laptops for students). Class size has zero effect to results. We have too many teachers already. (Get rid of the bad ones and replace them if needed)

    “a seemingly endless supply of creative people who should be put to work.”

    Creative people need babysitting approach to be told what to do? You find anything wrong with the use of word creativity?

  68. chicagofinance says:

    Comrade Nom Deplume says:
    September 6, 2011 at 12:29 pm
    [49] chifi They are located in Red Bank??? Hmmm. Aren’t you near there?

    Also Montklair….
    These people are like an anachronism……do you remember the old sight gags where people are traveling in the Pacific and they come across a solitary soldier cut off from the world who never got the message that WWII/Korean War/Vietnam War was over? It is almost the same with these people……

  69. chicagofinance says:

    Not to be morose, but some of the best shovel ready projects from the last 2 years were created in the last 2 weeks with these storms……the Obamunist should be thanking the good lord for giving him some talking points for his empty suit address this week……

  70. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [59] chi fi

    “Socialism will deliver an economic bill of justice to the rich”

    something tells me that the waiter is gonna get stiffed.

  71. Anon E. Moose says:

    Meat [38];

    Can’t refi negative equity.

    They did it routinely for new car ‘buyers’. Someone willing to finance $30,000 secured by an $18,000 assest probably wasn’t too good at math; lenders must have figured that the threat of repo itself was enough to keep people paying.

    They can just make the underwater refis non-dischargeable, like student loan debt. That’s working out well, no?

  72. Essex says:

    24. At a very high rate of interest though.

  73. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    chifi 52 the blonde is just there for the hot guys

  74. toomuchchange says:

    #59

    We haven’t heard very much talk of “soaking the rich” relative to the rise of income inequality.

    But I believe that will change and we’ll hear from much of this kind of talk as well as far more radical proposals to restore some kind of economic balance in the US, as the working class and middle class have less and less, which is the current trend.

    If 5% of the population has 85% of the wealth (which is an exaggeration), that Americas would not be the America that I know. I like the America that I know, but for that to continue we need the average person in a good paying job, earning enough to save something for retirement and pay taxes.

    In a 5% population/85% wealth, 95% population/15% wealth America, the rich will have to support the rest of us. The rich will always have to protect themselves from the rest of us, eventually.

  75. gary says:

    The post office’s problems stem from one hard reality: it is being squeezed on both revenue and costs.

    As any computer user knows, the Internet revolution has led to people and businesses sending far less conventional mail.

    At the same time, decades of contractual promises made to unionized workers, including no-layoff clauses, are increasing the post office’s costs. Labor represents 80 percent of the agency’s expenses, compared with 53 percent at United Parcel Service and 32 percent at FedEx, its two biggest private competitors. Postal workers also receive more generous health benefits than most other federal employees.

    Any questions?

  76. JJ says:

    RE 80, the average american is super lazy. In my flooded town people were paying top top dollar to clean yard, move wet rugs, paint damaged room, fix some sheetrock, nail some gutters or siding back up etc. Could not get anyone. Meanwhile my unemployed neighbor I saw his lawn service and maid come that week.

    Back even 25 years ago the kids, unemployed and Dads looking for extra work would be ringing bells looking to make extra cash, now supposedly with almost 10% unemployment the unemployed lay on couch watching preseason NFL games and complain.

  77. freedy says:

    po should have went private 10 years ago. its over business plan is busted
    outlived its time.

    but will be bailed out ,afterall
    Bo needs the votes

  78. Flat FSBO says:

    Hi, thanks for the well written article. I work with buyers and sellers and regularly try to make them understand how to sell a home… Beautifully done.

  79. gary says:

    The bottom line: the party’s over. If you don’t have a legitimate skill or a service/product to offer backed by demand, then you better become a really savy criminal.

  80. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [80] change

    “In a 5% population/85% wealth, 95% population/15% wealth America, the rich will have to support the rest of us. The rich will always have to protect themselves from the rest of us, eventually.”

    We are pretty much already there; you will see the state of affairs become more stark, but not changed in any meaningful way.

  81. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    So what was the anticompetitive reason that DoJ relied on to block the AT&T/TMobile merger?

    “The view that this administration has is that through innovation and through competition, we create jobs,” said James M. Cole, the deputy attorney general, at a news conference announcing the lawsuit. Mergers usually reduce jobs through the elimination of redundancies, he said, “so we see this as a move that will help protect jobs in the economy, not a move that is going in any way to reduce them.”

    I believe that this is the first time in recent memory that the antitrust laws were used to advance a job preservation agenda.

  82. toomuchchange says:

    82 — JJ

    That some of the 14 million unemployed and the many more underemployed are lazy is undoubtedly true.

    But more and more of them aren’t getting unemployment anymore and are getting desperate, which I think overrides laziness most of the time.

    Expecting the local people where you live to be knocking on doors offering household fixit services is pretty unrealistic, I would think. How many kids took shop in school there? How many of today’s busy dads pass on fixit skills — how many dads know them to pass on? Far fewer than 25 years ago, that’s for sure.

    I doubt the “top dollar” too. With Craig’s List, the homeowners could accessed experienced help easily, if they were really paying “top dollar.”

    Frankly I would have thought they’d get a lot of responses from idle contractors with lots of cheap illegal labor too, offering to work much harder and charge much less. You know, the usual thing.

    But of course the details don’t matter, do they, in your stories?

    PS Another reason people aren’t taking “anything they can get” is because it won’t help their situation. If you’re life is geared to making $100,000 a year, what’s $15 an hour going to do for you? Same thing $10 an hour doesn’t help someone whose rent is $1,300 a month.

    Cost of living around here has dropped minimally vs. the drop in wages in the available jobs, which are often very hard to get for the long term unemployed.

  83. toomuchchange says:

    87 — Nom

    Change may come. Income inequality and social unrest had a lot to do with why the New Deal’s social policy was instituted and to the rise of unions and workplace protections.

    The rich decided to have less money and live a mostly fear-free life here in America.

    Will today’s rich make the same choice? Time will tell.

  84. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [90] change

    Here’s another perspective from CNBC today

    “America’s strained relationship between democracy and capitalism is at an inflection point that is likely to favor the politicians over the bankers, according to Richard Maraviglia, a hedge fund manager at Carson Capital in London.

    “The United States could be thought of as a strained marriage of democracy and capitalism,” said Maraviglia in a research note obtained by CNBC.

    “The party celebrating capitalism was a great one, but all parties come to an end and so did that one. Whenever one sector of a mixed economy has been ‘in power’ too long, it tends to suffer from hubris,” he said.

    Governments in the 1970s acted like the capitalists at the turn of the new millennium. when Wall Street convinced itself that “the more capitalist laissez-fair free-market an economy was, the gentler (non-volatile) a business cycle would be”, according to Maraviglia.

    “Capitalism offers the opportunity to get rich, but it also requires the occasional duty of going broke,” he said.

    “While socialism offers a relatively calm existence, capitalism presents us with a state of continuous revolution. Creative destruction and capital expenditure booms. Except few were ever allowed to go broke in this cycle. Big government stepped in and took away the business cycle through a series of stimuli or truly unprecedented proportion,” Maraviglia said.

    We are now at a point in the battle between democracy and capitalism where the politicians and the business leaders are set for conflict, according to Maraviglia.

    “Let’s face it, Washington is a disaster. Political brinkmanship is quite clearly exacerbating what is an already Herculean task. When we look at Merkel, Sarkozy, Obama, and Chavez we see a slow wave of socialism building in the absence of a better solution,” he said.

    This had led the likes of Warren Buffett and Howard Schultz, the CEO of Starbucks to call for an end to political donations to Washington until it gets its act together as the market deals with huge uncertainty over the debt crisis.

    The policy response from the Federal Reserve to the current crisis is likely to be operation twist followed by a repeat of QE2, the second round of quantitative easing , if we enter a full-on crisis, according to Maraviglia. “Economies will be cocooned in massive ineffectual, dam-plugging QE,” he said.

    In the absence of any turnaround in the US or European economies, Maraviglia said global growth is likely to be dependent on an economy that is far from democratic: China.

    “China has engaged in a phenomenal fixed asset investment boom and now it wants to morph its economy into a domestic consumption model. As China daily fixes its yuan higher, it is making millions of Chinese people middle class,” he said. “

  85. JJ says:

    More like $150 an hour. Mold grows quick, near me suckers got quotes from insurance comapny, lets say 5k, 20k etc. They get money and up to them, fix it themselves, hire someone or leave it alone. Time is important with mold, shopping for price not an option with five inches of water in basement. I have a portable sump pump, large dehumifier and with a buddy or two could bang out remediation of two dens a day.

    People were charging like 5k for two days work, Unlike you fancy pants rich folk I took blue printing, welding, woodworking, metal shop, Auto mechanics one and Auto mechanics two as I was not deemed college material in HS, which led to all typs of painting, handyman type jobs, heck I used to build chopper bikes with super long forks and sky high sissy bars when I was 14 as the nancy boys did not know how to weld. If I was unemployed I would have cleared at least 10-20 grand in week after hurricane. Maybe unemployed are unemployed for a reason. Just last night in Home Depot chewing the fat with an electrician. Thank God I know enough to be dangrous. Most kids today could not turn on a TV without a remote. I recall at the age of five taking tubes down to drugstore to test and find new one as when TV broke Dad was not fixing it.
    toomuchchange says:
    September 6, 2011 at 4:03 pm
    82 — JJ

    That some of the 14 million unemployed and the many more underemployed are lazy is undoubtedly true.

    But more and more of them aren’t getting unemployment anymore and are getting desperate, which I think overrides laziness most of the time.

    Expecting the local people where you live to be knocking on doors offering household fixit services is pretty unrealistic, I would think. How many kids took shop in school there? How many of today’s busy dads pass on fixit skills — how many dads know them to pass on? Far fewer than 25 years ago, that’s for sure.

    I doubt the “top dollar” too. With Craig’s List, the homeowners could accessed experienced help easily, if they were really paying “top dollar.”

    Frankly I would have thought they’d get a lot of responses from idle contractors with lots of cheap illegal labor too, offering to work much harder and charge much less. You know, the usual thing.

    But of course the details don’t matter, do they, in your stories?

    PS Another reason people aren’t taking “anything they can get” is because it won’t help their situation. If you’re life is geared to making $100,000 a year, what’s $15 an hour going to do for you? Same thing $10 an hour doesn’t help someone whose rent is $1,300 a month.

    Cost of living around here has dropped minimally vs. the drop in wages in the available jobs, which are often very hard to get for the long term unemployed.

  86. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [90] change

    Although you are comparing apples and oranges when you compare the economy of the 30s to that of today, one thing hasn’t changed: The rich may actually favor a command and control economy. With protectionism (you will need it, otherwise we shutter every factory here), taxation, and regulation, you create barriers to entry. That leaves relatively few weathy able to jumpstart the economy. The rich that own the means of production won’t fire them up unless they will make a buck or three, so the gov. has to see to it that the capitalists are rewarded, otherwise they fund factories in China.

    You also saw some selfish “sacrifice” under all the New Deal hoopla. A factory owner could take an Immelt-like position and work for a “Dollar a year”, yet his stock was headed toward the moon from all the government contracts.

    Fact is, if there is money to be made, the rich here will put their capital to work. If not, they will put it to work elsewhere. And if we decide to tax them to death, the wealthiest among them will, as they have done before, decamp for gentler climes. In fact, our foreign direct investment rules may encourage the wealthy to leave, with only some of the truly uber-wealthy behind them. All those small businesses will sell out to larger corporations, just as they are doing now (I have a client, major multinational, that is buying up mom and pop competitors at a brisk clip). When that happens, the small business wealth is monetized and can go elsewhere, and the assets are accruing to a smaller and smaller group of big businesses.

    So when those second tier wealthy cash out and leave, that leaves only us kulaks to deal with the debt and the economy. And when you contemplate that, consider that the “rich” now pay a much higher percentage of the overall federal revenues than at any time in the past.

    This isn’t going to end well, no matter whose vision you put into place.

  87. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [92] JJ

    When I was 12 or 13, my dad let me break down and repair the major appliances. I always was able to fix them, probably saving him thousands over time. I think he was thinking, WTH, if he fixes it, great, and if he doesn’t, time for a new one anyway.

    Over time, I always broke down my appliances or electronics, and was often able to fix something for pennies that others would have tossed out. When I was out after college, I would trade services, like running wire through old apartments, painting, or making repairs, for rent. One time, I negotiated a townhouse rental by agreeing to paint the interior for one month’s rent and the cost of materials. Later, I figured I underbid by at least a factor of 2, but at least I got to keep all the tools.

    And I never learned a damn thing in shop class. Imagine if I had.

  88. toomuchchange says:

    94 – Nom

    Just curious — have you passed/will you pass any of that knowledge down to your kids? Of the people you know who have similar skills, how many have taught them to their kids?

    Lots of those skills are not being passed down. I wonder how many of today’s 15 year olds know how to fix a hem? The “girls stuff” like is also fading.

    There’s a long list of really useful home knowledge and fixit and do-it-yourself skills that’s aren’t getting passed on. Even more lamentable is the assumption many kids make around here is that because they don’t see any white people doing certain jobs, that white people don’t do those kinds of jobs.

    Very bad and sad. Especially when those jobs used to provide a great living to many people, including their own grandparents and greatgrandparents.

  89. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [95] change

    I will pass on whatever I can, when they are old enough, but I fear the older girl won’t be interested at all.

  90. toomuchchange says:

    In the rush to get kids into careers, lots of things about “real life” aren’t being taught. And lots of things about “real life” are being taught that aren’t good.

  91. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Boy, when you can’t get Peter Hart to give you good news, it sucks to be a dem president.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44401295/ns/politics/

  92. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Change,

    Case in point was my brother. Struggled in school, and took forever to get his BA, but he did. All he wanted was an office job; felt that this was going to be his ticket to middle class respectability.

    My father and I tried to talk him out of that, and there were plenty of role models for him to follow, but he felt that non-degreed, non-office work was “lower” somehow.

    I often entertain thoughts of chucking the law thing, buying a pickup truck or van, and loading it with tools.

  93. toomuchchange says:

    One more thing brought up by JJ: About knocking on doors for work.

    How many here would let somebody into their house, much their yards, that came to their door offering labor?

    I doubt that I would. Snow shoveling of public walkwayand stairs in front of house would be about it for me.

  94. JJ says:

    Good Man, actually the rich are pretty nice. I once painted the Smirmoffs basement. Mrs. Smirmoff (yes she was the Vodka heir) and boy it was some house liked to hire high school kids who needed money to do the jobs, she was no leona Hemlsely, she paid us a really good rate and even bought us breakfast and lunch. In the end due to the wall condition and the paint she bought us the paint job and repairs were taken a lot longer than expected. Ready for her to chew us out, mind you I worked my butt off for her as first rich house I was ever in. Scared to even use bathroom. She said I have a big party coming up so I need room next week. Crazy I voluntered to give money back, I felt bad not done and she fed us. She said it was her honor to have us come and help her with her project and it was her fault as she bought wrong type of paint, she thanked up. My Moms rusted ten year old wagon that dropped us off I am sure was the oldest car ever to set foot on that estate and she even came out and told my Mom he were hard workers. People who think the rich are man obviously never worked, years later I found out that Mrs. Smirnoff “hired” numerous HS and College kids for various projects paying a great wage, I doubt she need most projects. It was her way of helping the poor out without giving a hand out. I still drink the vodka sometimes as even though it is not trendy it brings back good memories.

    Comrade Nom Deplume says:
    September 6, 2011 at 4:30 pm
    [92] JJ

    When I was 12 or 13, my dad let me break down and repair the major appliances. I always was able to fix them, probably saving him thousands over time. I think he was thinking, WTH, if he fixes it, great, and if he doesn’t, time for a new one anyway.

    Over time, I always broke down my appliances or electronics, and was often able to fix something for pennies that others would have tossed out. When I was out after college, I would trade services, like running wire through old apartments, painting, or making repairs, for rent. One time, I negotiated a townhouse rental by agreeing to paint the interior for one month’s rent and the cost of materials. Later, I figured I underbid by at least a factor of 2, but at least I got to keep all the tools.

    And I never learned a damn thing in shop class. Imagine if I had.

  95. Prof. McDullard says:

    Change, #95

    In the rush to get kids into careers, lots of things about “real life” aren’t being taught. And lots of things about “real life” are being taught that aren’t good.

    So much focus on self-preservation and getting some job in life — I tend to attribute this to a culture of “scarcity”. When I was growing up, it used to be “get an engineering/medical degree or you won’t find a good job”, later it became simply “get some IT training!”. You should have seen some Indian matrimonial ads from late ’90s [a time when I was getting itchy] — “Groom from XYZ caste from XYZ language wanted: Require a software engineer for a beautiful girl from a respectable family [isn’t everyone?]”.

    I thought I will try to teach my daughter to spend more finding a purpose than a job and felt that US is the ideal place. The way things are headed, I am losing confidence in my views. I will try to make up for it by hoarding a few bucks here and there. The culture of scarcity will produce a lot of efficient clerks (see the Indian IT people), but very few pioneering leaders.

  96. JJ says:

    That is total BS. I am not talking strangers, neighbors. For instance two of my neighbors are in construction and one I know is in debt up to his eyeballs as he bought at peak and has an infant. Nice guy. I have tons of things, loose sideing, gutter hanging off, patio that needs cracks fixed, doors that needs replaced etc. If he knocked on my door and offered to do work at fair price I would hire him in a second. However, today’s folks are too proud. People on my block knew my mother was widowed and ready to lose house. I did work at a few hours, shoveling, plumbing, painting. People paid me. Yes I did knock on some doors. People used to help neighbors by given out odd jobs at fair rates to neighbors in need, win win. Now the unemployed wants hand outs. I even recall my auto shop teacher letting my moms exhaust system be the project of the day as he knew the deal. I and the class I swear put 30 welds in that 21 foot beast dural exhaust system That is how you help the poor, today’s response from govt is not the answer. Monday, I was trying to fix something on my car and I know a few doors up kids repair cars for extra cash, I got my repair done myself but I was going to ask them. Do I really need the kids in community college fixing my car. No

    toomuchchange says:
    September 6, 2011 at 4:49 pm
    One more thing brought up by JJ: About knocking on doors for work.

    How many here would let somebody into their house, much their yards, that came to their door offering labor?

    I doubt that I would. Snow shoveling of public walkwayand stairs in front of house would be about it for me.

  97. Prof. McDullard says:

    Man, JJ, very nice and inspiring post… more so considering the poster!

  98. Juice Box says:

    McDullard – “that US is the ideal place” other than the latest bust in financial origami and recycling ideas from the first dot com boom we are having a tough time being as great as we once were. No worries though the next generation is bound to be better, they almost always are.

  99. Juice Box says:

    JJ – re: “unemployed want handouts” Do you think we will get some tough love from Pres O Thursday night before kickoff? Will he be telling the listless to get up, snap out of it and to pull themselves up by their bootstraps?

    I expect nothing but platitudes.

  100. Prof. McDullard says:

    Juice, I want to hedge the bet with a few bucks set aside to help my kid experiment a bit with career choices — right now, she wants to be a waitress after she saw the Princess and the Frog movie. I hope she doesn’t see Jersey Shore anytime soon!

  101. toomuchchange says:

    103 – JJ

    “Now the unemployed wants hand outs.”

    I take it that’s the real complaint.

    Do you think they want handouts or a decent job?

    You may say, well, they can’t expect to ever work again for anywhere near what they made before, but they’ll just have to get used to that.

    But now what is your plan for the people who haven’t worked since 2007, 2008 and 2009 who have gone through their 99 weeks and don’t qualify for any government help? How many employers are going to hire them, even at minimum wage? Once they use up their savings and don’t have any kids under 18, all they may qualify for Food Stamps.

    So how are these people supposed to live, on $200 Food Stamps? In some states they will get Medicaid, but not in New Jersey, for example. The number of people in this situation is large and growing. I think we should concentrate on doing whatever we can to get these people back on track, productive and paying taxes.

    Unfortunately I don’t expect President Obama is going to suggest anything to help the 99ers. There are too many politicians worried about getting reelected and too many people worried about “handouts.”

  102. toomuchchange says:

    103 – Why not knock on your neighbor’s door and offer him work. Wouldn’t it work out for both of you?

  103. Prof. McDullard says:

    Anybody here has US Open tickets for tomorrow PM (and willing to exchange)?
    First timer with tickets for tomorrow AM (Nadal and Djokovic in morning vs Federer in the evening) — FIL and I like Federer.

    What are there chances that rain will ruin it tomorrow? Forecast looks like it’s written by Roubini!

    Today: Cloudy with periods of rain. Rainfall may reach one inch.
    Tonight: Rain. Rainfall may reach one inch. Locally heavier rainfall possible.
    Tomorrow: Showers early becoming less numerous later in the day. Thunder possible. Chance of rain 60%.
    Tomorrow night: Showers and thundershowers likely. Chance of rain 60%.
    Thursday: Thundershowers.
    Friday: Few showers.
    Saturday: Occasional showers possible.

  104. plume (88)-

    It is only fair. And now, fairness trumps rule of law here in the land of Bojangles.

    “I believe that this is the first time in recent memory that the antitrust laws were used to advance a job preservation agenda.”

  105. JCer says:

    111 meat, the fact that there are so many valid things that could be said about the merger and they bring up jobs is patently absurd. The outcome of the merger is a duopoly between ATT and Verizon, where they could basically set prices without fear of competition, I see a situation where competition is entirely based on handsets rather than service pricing which is something ATT and Verizon want badly.

  106. It is so absurd, because it shows the level to which the gubmint’s pandering has sunk.

  107. toomuchchange says:

    Obama to propose $300 billion to jump-start jobs

    Sep 6, 7:02 PM (ET)

    By JIM KUHNHENN and DAVID ESPO

    WASHINGTON (AP) – The economy weak and the public seething, President Barack Obama is expected to propose $300 billion in tax cuts and federal spending Thursday night to get Americans working again. Republicans offered Tuesday to compromise with him on jobs – but also assailed his plans in advance of his prime-time speech.

    According to people familiar with the White House deliberations, two of the biggest measures in the president’s proposals for 2012 are expected to be a one-year extension of a payroll tax cut for workers and an extension of expiring jobless benefits. Together those two would total about $170 billion.

    The people spoke on the condition of anonymity because the plan was still being finalized and some proposals could still be subject to change.

    The White House is also considering a tax credit for businesses that hire the unemployed. That could cost about $30 billion. Obama has also called for public works projects, such as school construction. Advocates of that plan have called for spending of $50 billion, but the White House proposal is expected to be smaller.

    Obama also is expected to continue for one year a tax break for businesses that allows them to deduct the full value of new equipment. The president and Congress negotiated that provision into law for 2011 last December.

    “Jump-Start Jobs”?

    You’ve got to be kidding me.

    That $170 billion for another year of Social Security savings and unemployment for those who haven’t reached their states’ maximum will help keep the 27-99 week unemployed afloat (which I agree with) and prevent some people from losing their jobs by adding money to the economy.

    The rest is peanuts.

    No extra weeks of unemployment for the long term unemployed.

    But how does this help 14 million people get a job? Please tell me where the real proposals are, this must be some kind of awful joke. Couldn’t they at least withdraw the Korean “free trade” agreement which is supposed to end up costing us jobs? How about a moratorium on handing out green cards and work visas to parents-brothers-sisters of prior immigrants until we’re back to normal unemployment? Anything?

    http://apnews.excite.com/article/20110906/D9PJAD780.html

  108. Prof. McDullard says:

    toomuch #114,

    It seems that Obama thinks that giving 2-4k for people like me will “jump start jobs”. Likewise, he seems to be thinking that giving tax credits to “job creators” is a good deal for job creation (and not, say, some “small businesses” pocketing extra cash).

    The only excuse he can have is that he doesn’t know what he is doing, but the Editor of HLR on his CV eliminates that excuse.

    Bloomberg should run. He has a good chance to win as an independent. Or, may be Romney will do a better job: it is better to have someone that does good things (like the health care in Mass), but has to lie to pander to his primary voters… than to have someone that does bad things (like giving bankers a free rein), but has to lie to pander to his primary voters about how he will fix the banking system!

  109. Essex says:

    15. “I don’t need a network. I am the network”. -Dwight Schrute

  110. cobbler says:

    T-Mobile – AT&T merger is as anti-competition as it gets. These are the only two GSM based networks in the country.

  111. Essex says:

    115. Bloomberg aint gonna play in Peoria. McDumbass.

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  113. toomuchchange says:

    115 – Prof. McD

    I see what you are saying. But look at how much the newly elected Republicans in Washington have gone to the right. Could Romney do the things you like today, in Washington (not Massachusetts)?

    Bloomberg’s third term hasn’t been much to write home about either, considering what he spent to get it. What has he done for jobs in this area except lobby Congress to keep Wall St happy?

    I don’t want to vote for Obama. I don’t want vote for any of the likely Republican candidates. I don’t know what I’ll come election day in 2012. What I want — moderation, leadership, common sense and a commitment to representing all Americans, not just the big donors — isn’t being offered by anyone.

  114. Fabius Maximus says:

    #70 Nom

    Hoffa sent you a reply!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHNsRZ8iqFc

  115. cobbler says:

    I wonder if forcing Fannie/Freddy to sell gap insurance on the newly bought houses could be a meaningful driver for RE sales… I mean, assume for 2% of the purchase price one could buy coverage that would pay for say 80% of the difference between the purchase price and the sales price (if the market continues to go down) on condition the borrowers were always current on their mortgage, spent at least 3 or 4 years in the house, and the house’s condition is at least as good as when purchased? If it works for cars why not for houses?

  116. jamil says:

    115, yeah romneycare has been such a success in ma. If that’s the definition of success to you, then this 10% permanent unemployment is great success too.

    Is every lefty really this stupid?

  117. cobbler (122)-

    Cuz…er…houses aren’t depreciating consumer goods (unless you live in some Hovnanian POS stack-a-shack). This is also kinda why you can’t mortgage a car.

    “If it works for cars why not for houses?”

  118. I like the new, feisty jamil.

    Minty fresh, and itching for a scrap. Good on you!

  119. Somebody wake me up when it’s time to mix the diesel into the fertilizer.

  120. Essex says:

    Jamil,

    The partisan nonsense makes about as much sense as my innate desire to see your entrails running from your stomach to the floor beneath you as you slowly bleed out. See? That type of thing is just not going to help matters at all.

    My thought is that if you take a step back and consider the damage that the corporate overlords have wrought on this country by displacing honest workers and common everyday c*ck takers like yourself, maybe you would see the bigger picture. Nothing will happen unless both sides work together.

  121. cobbler says:

    meat [124]
    Well, car loan is different from a mortgage mostly in its term and extent of the paperwork involved; both are secured loans.
    More to the point, if we all expect the taxpayers to suffer further losses from Fan/Fred underwater loans going bust with low recoveries, and pushing RE prices further down, isn’t it worth creating some mechanism that will increase demand/support prices?

  122. Prof. McDullard says:

    Essex, when Michael Jordan played at his last game at MSG, the whole crowd booed the Knicks and were cheering for MJ! There were some exceptions like Jamil, though…

  123. chicagofinance says:

    Essex says:
    September 6, 2011 at 9:15 pm
    15. “I don’t need a network. I am the network”. -Dwight Schrute

    I’d invite you, but you wouldn’t want to hang with douchebags….

    Hedge fund strategies: Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow
    Chicago Booth Alumni Club of New York City
    September 15, 2011: 6:00 PM – 10:00 PM

    Join Chicago Booth alumi and friends for an upcoming panel featuring a broad spectrum of hedge fund professionals across different strategies, including Mark Carhart (Kepos Capital), Anthony Scaramucci (Skybridge Capital) and Shujaat Islam (C12 Capital Management).

    Pulse Restaurant
    3rd Floor
    45 Rockefeller Plaza
    New York, NY

    Event Details
    6:00 pm – 7:00pm: Registration
    7:00 pm – 8:15 pm: Panel and Q & A
    8:15 pm – 9:00 p: Networking

    Speaker Profiles
    Mark Carhart, CFA (Speaker)
    Chief Investment Officer, Kepos Capital LP
    Kepos Capital is a globally focused asset management firm with a scientifically-based, yet intuitive approach to systematic global macro investing founded in 2009. Mark earned a B.A. from Yale University in 1988, became a CFA Charterholder in 1991 and received his Ph.D. from the University of Chicago Booth School of Business in 1995.

    Anthony Scaramucci (Speaker)
    Founder and Managing Partner, SkyBridge Capital
    SkyBridge Capital is a global alternative investment and advisory firm and has $7.8 billion in assets under management or advisement as of March 30, 2011. Mr. Scaramucci received a B.A. degree in Economics from Tufts University in 1986, where he graduated summa cum laude and was a member of the Phi Beta Kappa society, and graduated with a J.D. degree from Harvard Law School in 1989.

    George Bumeder (Speaker)
    Senior Vice President, XL Group Investments LLC
    George works on strategic partnership transactions with boutique asset management firms and sources and invests in hedge funds and private equity funds. He received a BSE in Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering from Princeton University and an MBA in Finance from the University of Chicago Booth School of Business.

    Philip J. Taylor, CFA (Speaker)
    Managing Director of Global Arbitrage and Trading, RBC Capital Markets
    Phil currently manages a $1.5 billion portfolio as Managing Director of Global Arbitrage and Trading at RBC Capital Markets, and has a successful sixteen year track-record in portfolio management. Phil holds a Masters degree in Mathematics and Management Studies from the University of Cambridge.

    Shujaat Islam (Speaker)
    Senior Portfolio Manager and Head of Trading, C12 Capital
    C12 Capital, a two year old asset management firm based in New York, opened their Helix Liquid Opportunities fund to new investors this year, in what was the second largest hedge fund launch year to date according to Absolute Return magazine. His undergraduate and graduate degrees are in Computer Science and Applied Mathematics, both from Harvard University.

    Jorge Mina (Speaker)
    Managing Director , MSCI
    Jorge is responsible for the company’s hedge fund and sell-side Risk Management Analytics business. Prior to the acquisition of RiskMetrics Group by MSCI, Mr. Mina was Co-Head of the Risk Management business at RiskMetrics. Mr. Mina holds an M.S. from the University of Chicago and a B.S. from the Instituto Tecnológico Autónomo de México.

    Gilbert Ong, CFA (Moderator)
    Vice President, MSCI
    Gilbert Ong is a Vice President in the hedge fund consulting group at MSCI, currently covering Risk Management Analytics clients. Gilbert possesses a MBA from the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, a MA in Statistics from Columbia University and a Bachelor of Accounting (Honors) from Nanyang Technological University in Singapore

  124. chicagofinance says:

    SX: I’d invite you, but you wouldn’t want to hang with douchebags….

    The Macallan Scotch Whiskey Masterclass at The Red Egg
    Chicago Booth Alumni Club of New York City
    Red Egg (Darren Wan, 02′)
    Macallan Distillers, Ltd.

    September 21, 2011: 6:00 PM – 8:00 PM
    Please join Randolph Adams, brand ambassador, in a tantalizing journey through the range of savory delights found in The Macallan®. Learn about the distillery and its process for creating this most extraordinary single malt.

    Red Egg
    202 Centre Street
    New York, NY
    6pm-7pm – passed around hors d’ouerves and spirits (Macallan) sponsored by Macallan
    7pm-8pm – tasting event
    Speaker Profiles
    Randolph Adams (Speaker)
    Brand Ambassador, The Macallan Distillers, Ltd.

  125. Essex says:

    134. Actually I’ve been known to make guys like you a little nervous. Comes with being 6’3″ 225 lbs and a generally unpleasant intolerant bastard when it comes to pansy ass mamas boys.

  126. Essex says:

    133. ChiFi, you’d s*ck 12 feet of c*ck just to meet one side of my family. The rich side that runs a couple of the world’s largest hedgefunds….

  127. Essex says:

    132. I spent 5 years in a midwestern shithole cheering MJ from just behind the bench on a couple of occasions. He was amazing to watch play. But then he also had Pippen.

  128. Essex says:

    But seriously chifi, if you “really” want to hang out sometime. I’m pretty sure I could dig you a shallow grave somewhere.

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