2015? That isn’t so bad…

From the WSJ:

Home Forecast Calls for Pain

Economists, builders and mortgage analysts are predicting the weakened U.S. economy will depress housing prices for years, restraining consumer spending, pushing more homeowners into foreclosure and clouding prospects for a sustained recovery.

Home prices are expected to drop 2.5% this year and rise just 1.1% annually through 2015, according to a recent survey of more than 100 economists to be released Wednesday. Prices have already fallen 31.6% from their 2005 peak, as measured by the Standard & Poor’s Case-Shiller 20-city index.

If the economists’ forecast is accurate, it means housing faces a lost decade in which home prices recover just a fraction of what was lost between 2005 and 2015, leaving millions of homeowners with little, if any, equity in their homes. The survey was conducted for MacroMarkets LLC, a financial technology company co-founded by Yale University economist Robert Shiller.

The housing bust has chilled consumer spending—the largest single driver of the U.S. economy—with eroding home equity contributing to the so-called reverse wealth effect that prompts people to spend cautiously because they feel poorer.

One in five Americans with a mortgage owes more than their home is worth, and $7 trillion of homeowners’ equity has been lost in the bust. Homeowners’ equity as a share of home values has fallen to 38.6% from 59.7% in 2005.

“With all of the economic turmoil, both domestic and international, there’s not much that points to an improving housing market at any point in the near future,” said Ara Hovnanian, chief executive of Hovnanian Enterprises Inc., the U.S.’s seventh-largest builder by deliveries.

While home prices aren’t falling at anywhere near the pace of 2008, one worry is that even modest declines become self-reinforcing, pushing more homeowners underwater and exacerbating the downdraft caused by more foreclosures.

Rising home prices traditionally lead homeowners to spend more money, even during periods of economic sluggishness, creating jobs.

But “that cycle can cut the other way,” said James Parrott, a top White House housing adviser. “As the value of a family’s home drops, that can really go from a lever of savings to a drain on that savings.”

Those concerns prompted the White House earlier this year to begin canvassing experts on how to attack the excess inventory of distressed properties and troubled mortgages.

Housing markets are also in bad shape because would-be first-time homeowners have retreated amid grim economic news. Many current homeowners, meanwhile, don’t have enough equity to move, chilling the crucial “trade-up” market. That has left housing heavily dependent on investors buying homes at discounts with cash.

This entry was posted in Economics, Housing Recovery, National Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

137 Responses to 2015? That isn’t so bad…

  1. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    Sales of Existing U.S. Homes Probably Rose From Eight-Month Low

    An increase in sales of previously owned U.S. homes in August probably failed to make up for the prior month’s decline as rising unemployment and foreclosures weighed on the industry, economists said before today’s report.

    Purchases climbed 1.7 percent to a 4.75 million annual rate after falling to a 4.67 million pace in July that was the slowest since November 2010, according to the median of 74 forecasts in a Bloomberg News survey.

    Companies like Lennar Corp. say weaker consumer confidence and limited access to financing remain constraints on demand, even with mortgage rates at record lows. Concern over housing and the slowdown in the economy may prompt the Federal Reserve today to propose new measures to shore up the recovery.

    “We can expect a modest pop in sales for August, though this is certainly not the beginning of a new lease on life for housing,” said Millan Mulraine, senior U.S. strategist at TD Securities Inc. in New York. “For demand to improve, homebuyers need to have more clarity and certainty on the direction of the economy and on what’s happening to the job market.”

    The National Association of Realtors’ data are due at 10 a.m. in Washington. Economists’ estimates ranged from 4.5 million to 4.99 million.

  2. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  3. funnelcloud says:

    Housing crisis, What housing crisis? Home value’s are booming, We’re coming out of this tiny, what was it? a 6 month recession, it was just a bump in the road and things are exponentially better, Why by 2012 we’ll be fist pumpin and party rockin again fer sure, Dow 225,000 , home prices up 2000% HAPPY TIMES.
    The Management

  4. serenity now says:

    “With all of the economic turmoil, both domestic and international, there’s not much that points to an improving housing market at any point in the near future,”

    Where is that “stench of death guy”?
    Clot? Clot you out there?

  5. grim says:

    Mike – No way I could have managed to refinish the floors myself. Flooring guy sent a crew of 6 yesterday to sand and stain, and they worked straight through from 7:30-5, and we’re not even talking about poly yet. It would have taken me 2 weeks.

  6. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Grim 5, ploy, really not water based?

  7. freedy says:

    Micro Headwinds

  8. grim says:

    Nah, hard to reform old schoolers I guess. Had the current place done in that fancy water based stuff a few years back and it’s already starting to show wear. Could probably use a screen/recoat. But only after 6-7 years of use (not abuse)? Seems way too quick.

  9. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Grim 8 agreed like poly better myself problem is they have regulated the oil base to impotence lowering VOC’s which cut solids. It is a nightmare to get to set up (dry) properly. There are some better water based products out there Bona Traffic is what I use for restaurants & other commercial applications. Cost more but for a home owners I always recommend it , you do not want to do this again for a long time.

  10. serenity (4)-

    Sorry. Been busy lately, spreading powdered lime on corpses.

  11. mikey (9)-

    I suggest that we all begin to think about living in reinforced underground concrete bunkers.

    Still betting on human extinction before housing recovery.

  12. Anon E. Moose says:

    Sr. Schizo (Clot/Meat/Death/whatever);

    When you harp on the stench of death, one can’t help but remember the definition of hypocrisy: An undertaker looking sad at a funeral.

  13. gary says:

    One in five Americans with a mortgage owes more than their home is worth, and $7,000,000,000,000 of homeowners’ equity has been lost in the bust. Homeowners’ equity as a share of home values has fallen to 38.6% from 59.7% in 2005.

    tick… tick… tick… tick…

  14. reinvestor101 says:

    I love it. The Fed is going to force long term rates down! This means I’ll be able to refinance my damn mortgage which will make my damn house more affordable. Hell, now if they could set up 100 year mortgages and make your damn kids take on the debt, we might get out of this mess. I still say that there’s a lot of houses that need to be bulldozed though. If we could eliminate about half of the damn housing stock worldwide that’d solve the damn problem while creating some damn jobs at the same damn time. A lot of people could be hired to do that. Sometimes you got to tear shlt up to get some stimulation.

  15. chicagofinance says:

    WSJ: What is your prediction?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJnKm6ftPu0

  16. Juice Box says:

    I predict criminally insane amounts of money printing.

  17. yo'me says:

    IN QE2 the fed bought treasuries by printing money.So,basically destroyed debt by buying our own debt by printing money at a very low rates.Now this debts are due to be paid,we pay ourselves (FED) with useless dollars and in turn they buy more longer term bonds.
    What is so wrong about lowering the deficit with printed useless dollars?Yes we can!!

  18. yo'me says:

    The special congressional committee set up to cut $1.5 trillion from the federal deficit should consider taxing futures and other derivatives at ordinary income rates, Senator Carl Levin, a Michigan Democrat and chairman of the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, wrote in a letter to the panel. The Office of Management and Budget has estimated that a similar administration proposal could raise about $2.8 billion in revenue.

    Futures, non-equity options and other types of derivatives transactions are currently taxed at a top rate of 23 percent; ordinary income is taxed up to 35 percent.

    The tax system “encourages bets on derivatives over direct capital investments that are key to economic growth,” Levin said in a Sept. 15 letter. “Closing this tax loophole would put a stop to that market distortion.”

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-20/goldman-critic-sides-with-buffett-on-futures-tax.html

  19. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (18) yome

    A fair point but there are policy considerations there designed to max revenues, esp. since futures are used to hedge losses. Read up on the Corn Products and Arkansas Best cases to get the flavor.

  20. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    did I get a shout out from the wall street journal. Cool : )

  21. Dan says:

    Grim,

    I’m doing my part to keep your Wayne taxes high as wifey gave birth to baby girl earlier today.

  22. Anon E. Moose says:

    Re: derivatives taxation;

    Why is the government enforcing (nah, paying off — see AIG) illegal gambling contracts in the first place? Louie the bookmaker gets his money in advance because he knows he can’t sue to recover – he has to resort to leg-breaking.

    The financial houses swore on a stack that the derivatives WERE NOT INSURANCE — because if they were insurance, then the state regulators could force their hand on capital requirements. If they are not insurance, then its a bet.

    If worried about legitimate hedging, just require that the purchaser has an insurable interest in the underlying transaction. For example, I can’t buy a life insurance policy on a random person — then off him to collect. There would be no insurable interest (spouse, dependent child, etc.).

  23. Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

    re101 –

    While I enjoy your points of view, I want you to start using off-color language more creatively. There are way too many “damns” and “hells” in your posts. To make your point effectively…..you’ve got to sprinkle in something heavier.

    Drop a few F-bombs, call down some bitchez, and, for emphasis, throw in some mf-ers.

    Now don’t go all Richard Pryor on us……but please do strive to utilize the full palette of the etymological spectrum

  24. Dan says:

    What only 2.5% drop in prices fantasyland is this guy living in?

  25. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    I have some time and am thinking of getting some red banners, some old s0viet flags, and joining the WS protesters. Give it some flavor, and give Obama a shout out on tv perhaps.

  26. Shore Guy says:

    The press also abdicated its responsibility in the rise of the Shrub, as it is with Perry. Does anyone see a trend here?

    http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/09/17/rex-murphy-the-medias-love-affair-with-a-disastrous-president/

    As the bad economic news continues to emanate from the United States — with a double-dip recession now all but certain — a reckoning is overdue. American journalism will have to look back at the period starting with Barack Obama’s rise, his assumption of the presidency and his conduct in it to the present, and ask itself how it came to cast aside so many of its vital functions. In the main, the establishment American media abandoned its critical faculties during the Obama campaign — and it hasn’t reclaimed them since.

    Much of the Obama coverage was orchestrated sycophancy. They glided past his pretensions — when did a presidential candidate before “address the world” from the Brandenberg Gate in Berlin? They ignored his arrogance — “You’re likable enough, Hillary.” And they averted their eyes from his every gaffe — such as the admission that he didn’t speak “Austrian.”

    The media walked right past the decades-long association of Obama with the weird and racist pastor Jeremiah Wright. In the midst of the brief stormlet over the issue, one CNN host — inexplicably — decided that CNN was going to be a “Wright-free zone.” He could have hung out a sign: “No bad news about Obama here.”

    The media trashed Hillary. They burned Republicans. They ransacked Sarah Palin and her family. But Obama, the cool, the detached, the oracular Obama — he strolled to the presidency.

    Palin, in particular, stands out as Obama’s opposite in the media’s eyes. As much as they genuflected to the one, they felt the need to turn rottweiler toward the other. If Obama was sacred , classy, intellectual and cosmopolitan, why then Palin must be malevolent, trashy, dumb and pure backwoods-ignorant.

    Every doubt they hid from themselves about Obama, every potential embarrassment they tucked under the blanket of their superior sensibilities
    snip

    As a result, the press gave the great American republic an untried, unknown and, it is becoming more and more frighteningly clear, incompetent figure as President. Under Obama, America’s foreign policies are a mixture of confusion and costly impotence. It is increasingly bypassed or derided; the great approach to the Muslim world, symbolized by the Cairo speech, is in tatters. Its debt and deficits are a weight on the entire global economy. And the office of presidency is less and less a symbol of strength.

    To the degree the press neglected its function as watchdog and turned cupbearer to a Styrofoam demigod
    snip

  27. Shore Guy says:

    I sense a growing desire among liberals to see Obama bow out so they can run someone competent, instead of running the party into a buzzsaw of voter discontent. I suspect that most Democratic lawmakers would rather keep their seats and have B.O. replaced than to lose their seats and have B.O. eek out a win, only to face an even-stronger Republicam congress.

  28. Juice Box says:

    Moose – CDS range in size from $10–$20 million, the Billionaires of the world use them to place really big bets. It is not a Hedge as most people think, it is an outright bet on default. You would think that they would at least ban naked credit default swaps, no way no how however even with all of the AIG nonsense, it is big tangled web and everyone wants a piece of the action. Genseler will be out of the CTFC and Geither will be gone too by the time any of this is ever settled.

    We are all just pawns until somebody shuts the casino down.

  29. Shore Guy says:

    Am I the only one here who believes that the Empty Suit in Chief is out of his depth with the Middle-East situation?

    http://www.economist.com/node/21529038

    A problem with club Med

    America in the middle between Israel, Turkey, Egypt and Palestine

    WHEN is anything going to go right for Barack Obama in the Middle East? The president came to office hoping to deliver a two-state solution in Palestine, and wasted a lot of political capital failing to do so. He wanted dearly to put America on the right side of the Arab spring, though this entailed joining a war in one Arab country (Libya) while looking on helplessly while another (Syria) slaughtered its own citizens. Now he has been drawn into a tangle of quarrels between America’s best friends in the eastern Mediterranean, from which there may be no exit.

    Only yesterday, or so it seems, the eastern Mediterranean was a tranquil lake, policed congenially by the American sixth fleet. Israel, Egypt and Turkey were all friends not only of the United States but also of one another. Over the years, it is true, the peace between Israel and Egypt grew cold. After the 2008 Gaza war between Israel and Hamas a frost settled on relations between Israel and Turkey as well. Behind the scenes, however, the governments (and armed forces) of the three countries seemed happy to stick to their strategic understandings, leading policymakers in America to hope that this might be at least one virtuous triangle in the otherwise vicious geometry of the Middle East.

    No longer.

    snip

  30. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    Dan congrats

    Shore – the media failed us in so many ways by becoming complicit to the crime. this started under clinton, progressed under bush to reach its’ culmination with Chairman O. Unfortunately for them, a good number of the unwashed are on to their BS. Sadly it is too late we are all chattle for the beast now.

  31. House Whine says:

    Governor of Indiana on Squawk Box this morning saying that Social Security just has to be means tested. Really? Let’s see if there is momentum building for this not so new idea.

  32. nj escapee says:

    It’s about time we roll up the empire and move our kids the heck out of the middle east and all these other outposts. We spend way too much blood and treasure to protect multi-national corporate interests. Those corps surely don’t give a cr-p about american citizens / taxpayers.

  33. Shore Guy says:

    “I have some time and am thinking of getting some red banners”

    In 1972, CREP hired hippy-types to go to McGovern rallies and cheer McGovern; thus, helping to persuade middle-of-the-road voters that McGovern was a candidate of the fringe.

  34. Outofstater says:

    #21 Congratulations!!

  35. Shore Guy says:

    In some ways it goes back to FDR and the election of ’44; however, the complete abdication started with the Shrub. Heck, Clinton’s flaws were exposed by and widely reported by the press in advance of the election. It was, I believe, Clinton’s performance on 60 Minutes that saved his campaign.

    With Bush, the press rolled over. With B.O., they rolled over and begged. Now, it seems like Perry is getting a pass. None of us are well served by this.

  36. Shore Guy says:

    Back to the salt mine.

  37. Outofstater says:

    Chifi, Anyone? Need a 15 yr single malt scotch recommendation. This is for a guy who has taken a “sipping tour” in Scotland so he knows his stuff. The 15 yrs is for an anniversary. Thanks!!

  38. JC says:

    Mike #9: I want to pull up the heartbreakingly-in-decent-shape-but-god-help-us-it’s-freakin’-RED carpet that covers the 1st floor of my POS cape. This in its heyday was really good quality wool carpet, but it’s freakin’ RED. I simply cannot have the disruption of moving all the furniture out, doing the sand/refinish/fumes crap that refinishing the floors requires, never mind trying to keep two insane cats closed up for a week. I’d heard good things about the Bona Kemi line that you mentioned. Assuming the floors are OK under the carpet, and also assuming that I’m going to put down some area rugs, do you think I could make do with this?

  39. homeboken says:

    Nom – from yesterday, you have mail, thanks.

    Dan – Congrats, welcome to the world of sleep deprivation.

  40. seif says:

    “As a result, the press gave the great American republic an untried, unknown and, it is becoming more and more frighteningly clear, incompetent figure as President.”

    The same could be said about W…so the U.S has now voted in 12 years of incompetency for the POTUS…and likely another 4 with the crop out there now. What does this say about the American voting public?

    (FYI: looking at the authors other articles displayed beneath, we learn that he is also a global warming denier)

  41. seif says:

    #38 Bruichladdich 15 yr.
    (it is pronounced Brook-laddy and it is excellent)

  42. yo'me says:

    I bought a liter of Glenfiddich 12 years old single malt when I was in Aruba for $35.I wish I bought more.Their 15 yo and above is suppose to be better

    http://www.glenfiddich.com/the-range/index.html

  43. Happy Renter says:

    [21] Congratulations, Dan!

  44. x-everything says:

    38.Outofstater says:
    Need a 15 yr single malt scotch recommendation.

    Macallan or Balvenie are both good. Macallan used to be much cheaper but got trendy so it’s a little more expensive

  45. yo'me says:

    Cost a million dollars to free the hikers not to mention the sacrifices they had to go through

  46. gary says:

    I’m hearing anecdotes that the reason for the decrease in unicorn sightings in the pithy towns are a direct result of underwater house zombie consumption. Can anyone confirm?

  47. Anon E. Moose says:

    Juice [29];

    We are all just pawns until somebody shuts the casino down.

    I think a more apt description of ‘we’ (i.e., J6P) is the horse at the track. MBS/CDO/CDS investors betting on who finishes (paying) and how quickly. I wonder who the jockey is in this analogy.

  48. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    homeboken, you have mail

  49. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [45]

    Second that on Macallan and Balvenie (but I don’t like Balvenie as much as I did before it got discovered). If you want something a bit lighter, try Cragganmore. It is a bit pricer though.

  50. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [50] redux

    I also like Glenmorangie Quinta Ruban.

  51. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [42] seif

    “#38 Bruichladdich 15 yr.
    (it is pronounced Brook-laddy and it is excellent)”

    Wine Spectator did a story on them a few months ago. Seems that they are something of an iconoclast in the business. Also, funny aside about how the US government was spying on them.

  52. seif says:

    i will check that out. thanks.

  53. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [34] shore

    You know I am old enough to remember McGovern, and that was precisely what came to mind.

    According to Liddy, another “trick” was to put McGovern stickers on cars and cut people off on highways..

  54. danxp says:

    can’t go wrong with macallan…

    singleton’s good too, but not sure if it’s offered in 15yr here.

  55. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [53] seif

    Turns out I still have the issue. June 30, 2011 Wine Spectator, and the story is titled “The New Whiskey Rebellion.”

  56. Juice Box says:

    yo’me – sacrifices? Bunch of out of work dirty hippies hiking around the acres and acres of unexploded mine fields on the Iran/Iraq border? They are lucky that someone did not come around and lop their heads off with a sickle, or they did not step on a Bouncing Betty. Since when did it become cool to go hiking in a war zone anyway? Chris Jeon is another one too, and all of those Brits that are constantly getting killed while on vacation in Africa.

  57. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:

    Glenmorangie

  58. chicagofinance says:

    Dan: congrats….

  59. chicagofinance says:

    Outofstater says:
    September 21, 2011 at 10:26 am

    I agree with the ones above…..it depends on how much of a risk you want to take…..I think the most solid straightforward one is The Balvenie….everyone I know likes it, but it is no one’s favorite….hence a safe gift…..I think the best of the pricey stuff is Oban….I love it, but there is no way I am going to drop that kind of money for it.

    As you know, I am a Laphroaig enthusiast.

    Also….check out my destination this evening…..
    booya

    The Macallan Scotch Whiskey Masterclass
    at The Red Egg
    202 Centre Street

    Please join Randolph Adams, brand ambassador, in a tantalizing journey through the range of savory delights found in The Macallan®. Learn about the distillery and its process for creating this most extraordinary single malt.

  60. homeboken says:

    Nom – Thanks, reply sent.

  61. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [60] chifi

    Oooh, I’m jealous. Wonder if there are samples to be had?

    But I have an unopened bottle of Oban. So who’s jealous now?

  62. Prof. McDullard says:

    Nom, you have mail.

  63. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [46] yome

    They should be able to recoup the mill through appearances, the book deal and the screenplay.

  64. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [63] mcdullard

    I’m getting right popular.

    Also just got off phone with uber-liberal friend from Mass (thinks Obama is a DINO, corporate shill, sellout), who wants to crash at my place while he and his girlfriend go and protest on Wall Street.

    I said I’d think about it.

  65. chicagofinance says:

    doh!

    Comrade Nom Deplume says:
    September 21, 2011 at 12:09 pm
    [60] chifi But I have an unopened bottle of Oban. So who’s jealous now?

  66. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    The New Jersey Real Estate and Single Malt Whiskey Report

  67. danxp says:

    i’m dying to try my 1967 speyside 35yr old scotch that i got as a gift but i can’t get myself to drink something so expensive so i’ll have to hold on to it and give it to my son as a gift when he gets married in 30 yrs or so…

    anyone ever heard of or tried this whiskey before?

  68. Prof. McDullard says:

    Nom,

    Yesterday, I was talking to a hard core GOP friend of mine (very good guy — and I usually contrast him vs a hard core liberal [though I noticed the lib's face was drained the day O won the election -- I was expecting him to jump up and down! explanation is simple, he is a sleazebag].

    There are a lot of happy faces here that completely disliked Christie for the longest time, but since yesterday would go happily fundraising for his reelection. I was telling my GOP friend that I would, and his response was a plain, “been hearing a lot of it today from most liberal friends he knows”.

    Now, if the GOP can nominate a sane guy (even if it a relatively smarter one pretending to be dumb — like Romney), it may work a bit. It’s a pity that there are too few leaders in this world. Everyone seems to be an operator.

    Life, as in sport, sometimes is weird. We sometimes irrationally cheer for “our side” and forget that sometimes we have more in common with a fan from the opposite side than with some idiots from our own side.

    As, I would say, I am not anti-republican, some of my best friends are republican :) We need a republican that can pull our troops out and close tax loop holes — unfortunately, only republicans can pull it off without much furor. Just like only democrats can cut SS, medicare, union benefits, etc., without much furor.

    Notice the 100k base salaries for donut munchers in a sh1tty town from yesterday? Bad side of unions gone wild.

  69. evildoc says:

    Balvenie makes a great (and specifically 15yr), possibly a double cask iirc

    If not hung up on the “15″, noting years incubating matters within a brand, but that 15 year for one brand is not necessarily better than 10 year for another, Talisker at 10yr is one of the smoothest out there. Benriach 12 year is superb.

    I despise Glenlivet. Find it at restaurants that want to say they have a single malt.

  70. Prof. McDullard says:

    Am I completely a misfit? I read “dying to try my 1967 speyside” as “dying to try my 1967 spyder” — and was thinking impressive, a nice, vintage car that still works?

    I don’t drink — I half-joke that my dad drank my share already, and any booze that is gifted goes to him these days when he visits…

  71. wtf says:

    “Especially worrisome to Grantham is the gulf between wage earners in the U.S. The top 10% of U.S. workers currently receive about half of the nation’s total income, with half of that going to the top 1%. The last time this country saw a wage gap so extreme was just before the 1929 stock-market crash and the Great Depression. By comparison, in the late 1970s the top 1% garnered about 9% of all earnings.

    “You can’t run the economy on BMWs alone,” Grantham said. “If the average person is in a pickle, how do you have a healthy economy?”

    For starters, he said, you tax the richest more than they’re paying now. Said Grantham: “We have actually made the tax structure friendlier to the top 10%.”

    Grantham contends that income inequality at these levels takes a real toll on ordinary workers and society as a whole. To bridge this gap and give average workers a bigger slice of the pie, Grantham advocates investing in education, training, and to “change the tax structure to make it equitable.”

    http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/113537/grantham-no-market-young-men-marketwatch?mod=bb-budgeting%20&sec=topStories&pos=8&asset=&ccode=

  72. Prof. McDullard says:

    Nom, I believe most progressives will fall into the group that thinks Obama is a DINO, corporate shill, sellout.

    Personally, I am inclined to go to Wall St but not in the next couple of months (work schedule, piled up to-do list, and a little bit fear that some idiot may say some thing insulting to me and I will get into a fist fight — need to wait till I have enough connections to take on idiots). In fact, I was placing an order for some vegetable pizzas for the protestors when I could not figure out the delivery address on the website. Pretty soon, there was a shiny thing moving nearby and all my attention was diverted.

    I wouldn’t mind walking along the street, join the protestors for a little while, and drop a couple of hundred bucks in a donation jar, order a few pizzas, and head home [will have to explain to my boss at home -- actually it is much easier to get permission from her than forgiveness, so I'll simply ask her before going].

    I fear her views are probably a bit to the left of mine, and she may accuse me of taking the easy way out by throwing some money in.

  73. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [74] mcDullard

    If he comes, I may go with him, holding a big neon-colored sign that says “Socialism Is Not A Dirty Word” or something to that effect.

    This guy and I may collaborate on a novel, but he has to decide he can work with me. He won’t if the “good guys” aren’t liberals, or if it has the potential to become another Turner Diaries. I don’t see those as problems, but I found it ironic that he was concerned my politics would get in the way when his color every decision he makes, right down to where to get coffee.

  74. Mikeinwaiting says:

    JC 39 Rule of thumb no water born on oil,you most likely have oil under the rug. I have never used it call them or research see if it will set up on the oil, I doubt it. If so give it a shot seems inexpensive, worst case new rug.

    Dan Congrats!

  75. Outofstater says:

    Re: Scotch Thank you all for your recommendations!!

  76. chicagofinance says:

    Out: Is this worth doing? or sort of only if you are in the UK, and have a few days to slot in…..

    Outofstater says:
    September 21, 2011 at 10:26 am
    This is for a guy who has taken a “sipping tour” in Scotland so he knows his stuff.

  77. 3b says:

    The rage against Wall Street crowd are camped out in Zucotti Park. What a rag tag bunch. As a parent I cant help but wonder who paid for the cell phones and lap tops. Just saying.

  78. Barbara says:

    Let’s talk polyurethane. I have been putting down oil based on vintage wood floors every now and then for 15 years. Usually do it to preserve a recent refinishing. I degrease then lightly hand sand. Then I vacuum, tack up, put on my Cardharts and put down the poly. I’ve always used the microfiber applicators with far better success than the classic lambs wool. I send the living out for the day to avoid fumes but found that they aren’t that bad one room at a time. The application took all of 15 mins and I was out on my porch sipping my iced coffee and reading a glossy mag. Results were usually flawless and if not, inwould just let it cure for a few days and deal with the skipped spot, no problems. Before this latest purchase, I last did this 3 years ago. Jump to august 31st, 20 mins after closing inam at the depot getting supplies to do the same insurance coat on two of the three floors. Two floors are vintage hardwood that were refinished and perfect, however the owners chose a satin finish and in my experience, with kids a d dogs it gets chewed up pretty quick. I always do a gloss coat, as I find that the harshness of the gloss calms down in a few months, but the overall hardiness is far superior to a satin finish. Ok, so I read that the new Voc oils kind of sucked now but I didn’t pay it any mind and there were no alternatives anyway. Well this stuff sucks, I tell you. Over two weeks later and I am still correcting some spots and none of the corrections are perfect. It is smeary, and often not sticking down no matter how much you are using. The applicators ( I used both kinds this time) are glossing over dry spots despite being loaded with product. It’s taking forever to cure and even when dry it shows smudgy footprints. I never had there problems in the past. I’m very frustrated and will just have to accept less than perfect when it’s all done. Hoping once all the furniture is in it won’t be noticeable.

  79. chicagofinance says:

    3b says:
    September 21, 2011 at 1:50 pm
    The rage against Wall Street crowd are camped out in Zucotti Park. What a rag tag bunch. As a parent I cant help but wonder who paid for the cell phones and lap tops. Just saying.

    WSJ
    June 17, 2009, 10:00 AM ET
    The Rise of the Poorgeoisie
    By Robert Frank

    David Brooks dubbed them “BoBos,” the “bourgeois bohemians” who created a new antiestablishment establishment. They were the specialty-cheese-eating, sport-utility vehicle driving environmentalists who railed against the elite even as they became one themselves.

    They were, in a sense, the antirich rich.

    Now, the media is calling them the “Poorgeoise,” affluent entrepreneurs and executives who prefer to look like starving artists. An article in the Guardian says the financial crisis has made the Poorgeoise more common than ever.

    “They’re rich and they love to spend – but they like to pretend they’re having as hard a time as the rest of us,” the article says.

    “It’s the latest must-have term, fresh in from Brooklyn and Portland where the streets are paved anew with poorgeois hipsters. The poorgeoisie are the countercultural rich who have adopted a form of consumerism against consumerism, a way of spending to make themselves look as though they haven’t spent. It’s a new way for rich people who don’t want to seem rich to buy their way out of the guilt and shame of having money at a time of mass economic woe.”

    According to the article, they drive hybrids, have creative jobs and grow their own vegetables.

    I wonder, though, whether the Poorgeoise are all that new, or all that real. Even before the crisis, many of the wealthy liked to drape themselves in the camouflage of the proletariat–boarding the G5 jet in jeans, T-shirts and sneakers. They preferred to be around “thought leaders” and creative artists rather than other rich people.

    They were the Google guys, or Richard Branson or the art-buying hedge-fund managers in Greenwich, Conn.

    Bobos and Poorgeoise and those who pretend to be less wealthy have been with us for years. What has changed is that many of them no longer have to pretend.

  80. chicagofinance says:

    3b: Their parents aren’t paying for sh!t. They won the genetic lottery and moved to BillyBurg to fcuk around. The protest is not again Wall Street, but rather a bunch of overgrown teenagers rebelling against their parents.

  81. 3b says:

    #81 Thanks chgo. I guess not batheing is part of the package too.

  82. chicagofinance says:

    again = against

  83. 3b says:

    It is after 2:15 , where is Operation Twisted!!!

  84. Behindthefence says:

    Outofstater – Best single malt for my taste buds… Oban Single Malt Scotch Whisky

    Oban Distillery, Oban, Argyll PA34 5NH

    Outofstater says:
    September 21, 2011 at 10:26 am

    Chifi, Anyone? Need a 15 yr single malt scotch recommendation. This is for a guy who has taken a “sipping tour” in Scotland so he knows his stuff. The 15 yrs is for an anniversary. Thanks!!

  85. 3b says:

    #82 I don’t know about winning the genetic lotery if this is how they spend their days. But somebody is still paing to clothe them (ok only one set, because they are starting to smell),and someone paid for the laptops,a nd someone is paying for the phone service.

  86. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Twisted!!_

  87. 3b says:

    OK Operational Twisted is now operational. The Fed will swap 400billion of short matys for longer dated bonds (7 to 30 years) between now and June 2012, and will of course keep short rates low until 2013.

  88. Libtard in the City says:

    Jamil (71):

    If that’s not Photoshopped, then what is Reagan doing in the back row?

    http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/09/20/7862290-barack-obama-joins-open-government-partnership-for-group-photo

  89. Libtard in the City says:

    Details of twist announced. 10 year goes from 1.88 to 1.95. DJIA goes from flat to down 1.3%.

  90. 3b (89)-

    In layman’s terms, the Fed has now lost all control of its balance sheet. Massive debt to infinity (or at least to our kids’ lifetimes…hey, we’ll be dead anyway).

    In the bluntest of terms, we’re now wholly and properly fuct.

  91. Barbara says:

    I’m in mod in 91. I have no idea why.

  92. 3b says:

    #92 That is why I am calling it Operation Twisted!!! But in all seriousness I still do not understand the thought process behind this. I really don’t see how it is going to work.

    But what do I know. I am just a guy from the Bronx.

  93. Libtard in the City says:

    We were fuct the moment we suspended mark to market, bailed out JPM, AIG, etc, and allowed the removal of Glass-Steigal. Technically, we all should be sitting on the sidewalk at Wall Street as well, but it would make no difference. The government is on the side of Wall Street. Just don’t let them take your guns. You will need to use them some day for the survival of our country. Of course, if you ask Jamil, it’s the left’s fault. Didn’t you see Obama wave?

  94. chicagofinance says:

    But think of all the money you made printing prospectuses the last 12 years…….

    Libtard in the City says:
    September 21, 2011 at 2:48 pm
    We were fuct the moment we [] allowed the removal of Glass-Steigal.

  95. jamil says:

    96, who passes the Community Inv Act and Racial Hate Group Intimidation Acts?

    If you force the banks to give loans to people who cannot pay them back, bad things follow. Lets try capitalism and let companies be on their own. No preferential treatment for campaign donor (Solyndra/LighjtSquared), no bailouts etc.

  96. Libtard in the City says:

    But think of all the money you made printing prospectuses the last 12 years…….

    True… As a true capitalist, I rescind my last statement.

  97. 3b says:

    #98 And OS’s make great Pizza holders too!!!

  98. Prof. McDullard says:

    3b, some of those weird looking guys probably are super smart guys that have done the world a lot of good and themselves a lot of money… You can question the image they are projecting: e.g. fighting for the poor when they themselves might be super rich requires a lot of tact, working with sub-1000 crowd is a failure in most cases, and lack of a central message is also bad.

    You can definitely question their egos (plenty plenty… most of the time the fuel that drives their hybrids is hot air and most act like their sh!t doesn’t stinketh).

    What you can’t question is how they are able to buy their cell phones — it is even possible that a couple of them are capable of buying cell phone companies, even their looks may indicate that they can’t afford the cell phone. This small group of guys don’t seem to be the ones to see some major social change through, but they are doing something — a bad plan is way better than to not even have a plan. The rest of the world has strong financial reform, and only in the US can a CEO of a bank get away calling the bank regulations and safety requirements across the rest of the world “Anti American”.

    Here is the fun thing… When the SHTF, these guys will be in another country — they will give up their American dream (you can be a thick-accented immigrant and still believe that America is the best country in the world and subscribe to the ideals). Most of them will be wise enough to save resources (e.g. don’t pay off mortgage early when there is a remote chance of riots breaking across US sometime in the near future and you’d have to abandon your wonderful house; instead have a small place and some safety net where these problems won’t reach). Most of them will have enough options.

    When the SHTF, the noms, shores, and these silly libs will find that they share more in common and end up safely in a different place. They will fight like crazy in the new place with the same amount of vigor and attitude. The backwash will stew in their own Jersey Shore reruns. When the SHTF, there will be a lot of realignments, a lot… Party affiliation or “favourite tax schedule table” would not be the top factors.

    I’d rather fight alongside a guy that expresses his dislike towards my views or even my culture, but shows respect towards me across many other aspects, and is willing to fight along with me. As a corollary, I’d be nervous about fighting along a guy that has no convictions, but has general agreement with my political and social views. You can negotiate with a strong, reasonable guy that has major disagreements with you. You cannot make a p-ssy grow a pair.

  99. Prof. McDullard says:

    Stu, you are also buying into the concept of guns? I believe you don’t have any… The discussion around the house is that my wife trusts that that it is a good protective measure, and that there will be enough security measures. The main point of concern, and I am unable to give a strong defense, is along the lines of “what if you go crazy”? Indeed, what if I go crazy? If I already crazy, it may be a good thing because things can’t get worse :)?

  100. Prof. McDullard says:

    Stu, Jamil is a p_ssy. I have a big suspicion that it is a troll — an avatar of someone that is much more reasonable, but who is posting under that name here just to get a rise out of others, or to keep the conversation lively, or to unify everyone :).

  101. 3b says:

    #100 Prof: Most of them look to be too young to have done anything yet. I am not sure they have the right to be pissed off yet, but I will agree that they are doing something, although it means nothing.

    The only way to get real change is for the large middle and upper middle classs to rise up and say enough. But they wont.

  102. Prof. McDullard says:

    chi #82… in some cases, it may even be a token gesture towards “giving something back to the society” — a more palatable alternative for them. Otherwise, in order to convince themselves that they did their share, they’d have to really write multi-million dollar checks to organizations supporting the needy. A couple of vacation days marching along NYC streets is easier than writing a check for a few M or a few hundred K or even a few K.

  103. Simply Ravishing HEHEHE says:

    Hahaha, two day meeting and that’s what they come up with? Too much.

  104. Painhrtz - Salmon of Doubt says:
  105. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Barb 80 Check my post 9. I do this professionally & I can not get it to set up right so don’t feel bad. Have to use water now problem is you have to take it down to bare wood (total sanding job) water will not work with oil. Water to water fine water to oil (Why!) will not float either. Grim I really feel you have done yourself a disservice now you can not touch up without using oil & it is a bitch. The commercial grade water borns hold up fine.

  106. chicagofinance says:

    Possibly the most risque WSJ Editorial Headline of all-time….

    Barney Frank’s Fed Packing Plan

    Wall Street Journal
    REVIEW & OUTLOOK
    SEPTEMBER 21, 2011

    A proposal to punish the hard-money regional bank presidents. .

    Among Washington’s modern ironies is that liberals think a Federal Reserve that is increasingly a creature of the White House and Congress has too much independence. So along comes Barney Frank with a plan to make the central bank even more political than it already is, in particular by cutting out its regional presidents and replacing their votes with political appointees.

    In a remarkable white paper released last week, the former Chairman and now ranking member of the House Financial Services Committee targets the role of the 12 regional bank presidents. Today the presidents are allotted (on a rotating basis) four of the 12 voting slots on the Fed’s Open Market Committee, or FOMC, which sets monetary policy. The other eight are the president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and the seven Fed Governors, who are appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate. Mr. Frank wants to strip the regional banks of any voting membership.

    The 12 presidents are selected by regional bank boards, and Mr. Frank writes that this “anomaly” is “not simply an imperfection in our model of government based on public accountability” but influences “in a systematic way the decisions of the Federal Reserve.” That would seem to be the point, though what Mr. Frank means is that the regional presidents have historically tended to favor sound money and thus have “now become a significant constraint on national economic policy making.”

    The Congressman’s timing is especially notable, coming only days before the latest two-day FOMC meeting that ends today. One plausible inference is that Barney is walking point for White House political advisers who want to intimidate the Fed presidents from sticking to a harder-money policy but can’t say so themselves. He’s certainly in line with the latest consensus among liberal economists, who are urging a burst of inflation to reduce U.S. debt and pump up the economy before Election Day.

    Mr. Frank is nothing if not candid about his own political agenda, specifically citing the August Open Market Committee announcement that it would keep the short-term interest-rate target near zero through 2013. Three regional presidents dissented, favoring less accommodative language.

    Mr. Frank believes such dissent is leading the Fed “to pay more attention to combating inflation than to the equally important, and required by law, policy of promoting employment.” In other words, Mr. Frank’s Fed restructuring is a familiar plea to use monetary policy to save Democrats from the slow-growth consequences of their fiscal and regulatory policies.

    The regional Fed banks are an important bulwark against political pressure because they have independent bases of support outside of D.C. Mr. Frank claims the presidents are dominated by “business interests” on the regional bank boards, but those interests provide an important counterweight to the Wall Street and Washington voices that tend to favor easy credit as a policy default.

    It’s true that the Fed has always presented a conundrum for democratic accountability. The Fed is a creature of Congress and shouldn’t be off-limits to political debate and scrutiny. But countries that let politicians dictate monetary policy—e.g., Argentina—typically come to grief. Our complaint is that the Fed under Alan Greenspan and Ben Bernanke has grown too close to the Treasury and White House, and too involved in fiscal policy and the allocation of credit.

    One antidote would be a new Fed Chairman in the mold of Paul Volcker. Congress could also repeal the Fed’s dual mandate so it focuses only on price stability, not full employment too. Even better would be a revival of rules-based monetary policy that relies less on the judgment or intuition of the Fed Chairman and staff.

    But as long as we have fiat money, the Fed needs a structure that insulates its monetary decisions from political meddling. The voting power for bank presidents is one way to do that, and Republicans ought to be looking for ways to strengthen their role.

    A surprising and welcome political development this year has been the emergence of a hard-money populism among Republicans. GOP candidates have noticed that Fed policies have produced spikes in food and energy prices that are hurting middle-class real incomes. Some have taken up Ron Paul’s call for an audit of the Fed, but this is mostly political symbolism.

    A better campaign theme would be a call to restore the Fed’s independence and its focus on price stability. One concrete proposal would be to give more voting power on the FOMC to the regional presidents—the opposite of Mr. Frank’s plan for more Washington control.

    If easy money alone could conjure prosperity, we wouldn’t have 1% growth and 9.1% unemployment after 32 months of near-zero interest rates and two bouts of quantitative easing. Mr. Frank is giving Republicans an opening to stand up for Fed independence and speak up for the purchasing power of the American middle class.

  107. Prof. McDullard says:

    3b, I read something on the net — something along the lines of how companies created a divide among poor whites and poor blacks, who were in the trenches together and shared more in common than the company owners. It worked pretty well for the owners because the workers could blame a fairly unknown and generalized enemy and can focus their frustration on a single weak person from the group that is the cause of the problems.

    It is the same thing now. Fox’s second majority owner is the Saudi Prince, Bin Talal, some of W’s best friends (and family friends) were Ladens. They are internally able to reconcile the contradictions in a mature manner using common sense. What they are not doing is to provide the same logic in easy sound bytes and educate the general public. In fact, they are actively misinforming the general public with all these doomsday scenarios.

    The unfortunate thing is that the average American mind, is, …, well, how to put it, …, pretty average. If it is of any consolation, the average Indian mind in India is worse, and I presume that it is similar in most countries.

  108. Prof. McDullard says:

    Stu/JJ… Have some liquid cash… Have my rainy day funds in Ally. May not need it for anything soon, unless my ’96 car dies on me suddenly.

    SPY? Still too early for me to broach the subject of buying individual stocks at large amounts with my wife. Not interested in metals. Don’t want to prepay for mortgage for obvious reasons.

    Stu, I probably can take the plunge into individual stocks at the small amounts like you mentioned — that may give me some confidence and a path to put in bigger chunks a few years down the line. I do understand it also needs work from my side to maintain the membership in the club — and I think I am ready for the next time you guys meet.

  109. Libtard in the City says:

    Awesome Prof. I too utilize Ally for rainy day funds. As for the investment club, the meetings are held the first Thursday of every month at 7:30pm. Shoot me an email and I’ll fill you on on the deets. We’d be glad to have you.

    As for guns. They are truly a waste of time and money for self defense for all but a few. But they will one day provide the check and balance over a federal government that enlists the poorest of the poor to fight their battles. This will one day bite the elite in the ass.

  110. x-everything says:

    86.Behindthefence says:
    Outofstater – Best single malt for my taste buds… Oban Single Malt Scotch Whisky

    I agree..best I’ve had… but it’s not on my shelf due to $80 + price. Balvenie used to be $50 at Bottle King but just went up to over $60. Good thing I don’t drink as much of the hard stuff as I used to

  111. reinvestor101 says:

    >>>re101 –

    While I enjoy your points of view, I want you to start using off-color language more creatively. There are way too many “damns” and “hells” in your posts. To make your point effectively…..you’ve got to sprinkle in something heavier.

    Drop a few F-bombs, call down some bitchez, and, for emphasis, throw in some mf-ers.

    Now don’t go all Richard Pryor on us……but please do strive to utilize the full palette of the etymological spectrum<<<

    You may not have some damn standards, but I sure as hell do. There are some damn ladies on this damn board and there's a limit to kind of language I will use. I'm not some damn salty ignorance ass hard ankle. I'm a gentlemen and you damn sure better not forget it.

    Terrorist.

  112. Barbara says:

    Mike thanks . Taking your advice
    When I eventually Do a full refinish it will be water based.

  113. 3b says:

    Well the stock market did not like the Twist, perhaps they prefer the Peppermint Twist!!

  114. eSex says:

    I can almost taste the vulgarity in 101′s underpants.

  115. chi (108)-

    Leave it to a retard like Bawney Fwank to actually devise a way to make the Fed worse than it already is.

  116. 3b says:

    Twisted Sister!!!

  117. Barbara says:

    Mike, any insight on the smudge problems? They come up with some kitchen spray stuff but as soon as it dries and bare feet wall across, back are the smudges. I have never had this prOblem with other poly floors.

  118. Prof. McDullard says:

    Stu, when the SHTF, crooked elites will run to Dubai. Dumb elites will stay back. Sane people will either protect themselves fully — though almost impossible against state sponsored riots — or flee to a place to start a new dream of America, however imperfect that is.

    The protection I am thinking of is against a run-away bunch of idiots (or even a single idiot) trying to break in. I can envision things getting bad in some neighborhoods and crime may slowly spread around. If it comes to protection against government, I will become a p_ssy, simply cut my losses, and run like crazy. Even though it is difficult to time it, the potential losses are somewhat capped if one flees one’s property a bit too early.

    Now, the big question I asked… Put the money in SPY? I don’t have many other options — keep it in bank at 0%, keep in ally at 2.4%, hmm… nothing else, may be SPY-tech :). We have some minimal property in India, so pumping some money there is one option — we have no agricultural land (though a couple of generations ago, our families were primarily into agriculture), so we can buy a small ag land and start adding up, but we do not have enough connections, so someone can screw us easily.

    Paying off towards mortgage is almost a definite no — in fact, if there is a simple cash-out refi, I may even be inclined to explore that — we have about 50% equity give or take based on assessed price. Won’t buy another car till the clunker dies or we have another kid a few years down the line.

    May be time to become more “mainstream American” and buy a chick magnet car or an SUV. Yesterday, I was mightily pissed off when a used-car-salesman type in his fancy SUV was staring at my clunker and me with a look of disapproval and snootiness that I would expect from some elite lib, or a minority celebrity. I was almost tempted to start a conversation with him and drop the hammer half way by saying something like, “I don’t need a nice car to get respect”, but I need to pick my fights a bit carefully, or else I’d be waging battles against the whole world.

  119. Juice Box says:

    re: #115 – 3b – switching to buying Fannie and Freddie MBS instead of UST gonna give the Obama refi plan a push, which they don’t need anyone’s approval for. I gather Bernake is getting better at playing politics or at least Greenspan told him to do it.

  120. Barbara says:

    If the it all goes black I’ll move the family to nova scotia. Nobody is going to bother you in Cape Breton. I’ll have to learn how to fish and grow roots In the basement.

  121. Mikeintime says:

    Barb 119 No sorry, when this crap new low VOC poly doesn’t set right I re-sand. People are paying me so has to be perfect. After a few times getting burnt by this stuff changed to water. You want oil go find somebody else , don’t make any money sanding twice.

  122. Mikeinwaiting says:

    OOPS! 123 that is me Barb.

  123. Al Mossberg says:

    Looking at a 3.75 30 year fixed here. Closing costs would be around 3k for the typical mortgage. If you want them to pay the closing costs then add .25 to the rate. Let me know if anyone else sees a better rate out there. Im hoping to see 3.5 and then I will pull the trigger.

    http://www.usmtgcap.com/

  124. Al Mossberg says:

    Re: Crime and guns etc,

    I was thinking about installing a couple wireless security cameras to add yet another layer of defense. There is no doubt that the crime rates will rise. The cracked out meth heads are breaking into homes near me looking for prescription drugs.

    Cant do the big dog. Allergic.

  125. Prof. McDullard says:

    Moss,

    Will the 3.75 or 3.5 work with a cash-out refi? I don’t mind moving the 50% equity to 20% and keep the rest even at something like ally (net loss of money, but enough liquid cash on hands). I can show there is also money in the banks and brokerage accounts? Would a reason such as “capital to start a new business if an opportunity arises” fly? We do really love our home, but having an exit plan in case the SHTF is probably a good idea. I see what’s happening in some boros south of Rt 22, and fear that any unrest from there can creep up the mountain quickly — I hate that I sound like some people I know that want to be in gated communities (and I used to still do dislike many of them), but I do have the fear…

  126. grim says:

    Mike – wish you had the biz up and running, you know you were my first pick

  127. Al Mossberg says:

    127,

    Prof,

    The inflationists would say its a great idea so long as you dont park it in cash.

    If Argentina taught us anything its the gated communities are the safest once the SHTF. Even more so than rural farms.

  128. When you put up the wall around your house, don’t forget to embed it with broken glass.

    That’s a nice little piece of attention to detail you generally only see in Argentina.

  129. “Hey Ben, when we said we can’t wait for an inverted 2s 30s, we were only kidding. Please don’t destroy the country to satsify our wish. ”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2011/09/30%20Year%209.21.jpg

  130. reinvestor101 says:

    I used to like Bernanke, but he’s turning out to be a damn wuss. If you’re going to print some damn money, do it right and stop mucking around with the stinking small change. Hell, that’s why the damn market is down again today. He didn’t do enough and when you don’t do things right, your damn credibility gets shot and you lose your damn mystique. Shlt, if it was me, I would have bought a whole damn fleet of damn dump trucks and dumped out about 10 trillion big ones on Wall Street’s damn door and sat back and watched the damn market shore 15000 points. Hell, all the damn chicken littles and scaredy cats running around crying about the damn PIIGS and the mucking Euro would be scurrying for cover like damn roaches caught in a floodlight.

    If you’re going to kick the damn can down the stinking road, you better kick the hell out of it so everybody knows you’re not mucking around. Instead, this motherhubbard is sniveling around with a shaking voice like some damn wuss.

    They need to make me the damn Fed chair. I’d have all these damn problems solved overnight.

  131. reinvestor101 says:

    >>I can almost taste the vulgarity in 101′s underpants.<<

    WTF? I don't know who the hell you are, but it's 7:oo damn o'clock and some children could be looking at this damn board. Get your damn mind out of the gutter.

  132. Outofstater says:

    #78 Chifi – I’m not sure if it’s worth doing or not. I think he made up his own itinerary, trying to get to every single malt distillery that had tours and tastings. I do know he had a great time and so did his wife, but the wife doesn’t remember much of it. I think she might have “glugged” instead of “sipped.”

  133. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Grim 128 Have had the equipment in mothballs for year. That being said I would have been happy to volunteer my expertise in regard to best methods, but what’s done is done. Do not pay back end until last coat sets up & drys (give it two days after last coat), Barb’s experience is not unique. Some time this new oil works sometimes not. It has nothing to do with the skill of your guys, the recent humidity doesn’t bode well. If you see something that doesn’t look kosher I will come & look at it if need be.

  134. Shadow of John says:

    Moth balls? I did not know they had them.

  135. Nestor says:

    Cool knowledge! I have been seeking for anything similar to this for a while finally. With thanks!