Who matters more? Rich or poor?

From Bloomberg:

NJ Taxes Cause Rich People to Move, Economist Says

New Jersey’s high taxes drive out wealthy residents, slowing the state’s recovery, said Charles Steindel, the state treasury department’s chief economist.

Property, income and estate taxes are the top reasons people leave, said Steindel, who released a study of federal tax data and a survey of financial advisers today at an economic forum in Trenton organized by the treasury department.

overnor Chris Christie, a first-term Republican, has twice vetoed measures sponsored by Democrats that would have raised income taxes on residents earning $1 million or more. Senate President Stephen Sweeney, the state’s highest-ranking Democratic lawmaker, said last week his party would push again for passage of a so-called millionaire’s tax.

“There is a relationship between state tax rates and where people move,” Steindel, a former senior vice president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, told reporters. “The higher tax-rate states generally lose more people every year.”

Steindel released the results of a survey of subscribers to the state’s online newsletter, which includes financial advisers to high-wealth clients. More than half of the respondents said their clients had recently left or expressed interest in leaving, Steindel said.

Three-fourths of those who expressed interest in leaving have annual incomes over $100,000, while 15 percent earn more than $1 million, according to the survey.

The survey by Christie’s administration is at odds with an August study by the Washington-based Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, which found that housing prices and job opportunities have more impact on migration patterns than tax rates. The group advocates more spending on government programs for the poor.

The center’s study, conducted by researchers at Stanford University, examined New Jersey’s 2004 tax increase on income exceeding $500,000. It found that migration among that group increased at a similar rate as those not subject to the tax.

“For two years we’ve treated millionaires with kid gloves and it has not worked,” Sweeney told reporters Nov. 10 in Trenton. “We’re going to fight with this governor when we know he’s wrong.”

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120 Responses to Who matters more? Rich or poor?

  1. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  2. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    Home Prices in U.S. May Drop 8%, Pimco’s Simon Says: Tom Keene

    U.S. home prices will probably decline an additional 6 percent to 8 percent before bottoming, Pacific Investment Management Co.’s Scott Simon said.

    Potential home buyers are being kept on the sidelines by policy makers tightening rules for government-backed loans and banks being more restrictive than required by Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Federal Housing Administration, Simon said in a radio interview on “Bloomberg Surveillance” with Tom Keene from Pimco’s headquarters in Newport Beach, California.

    “If you can borrow, housing is so cheap, but if you can’t borrow it’s infinitely expensive,” said Simon, the mortgage head at the firm, which runs the world’s largest bond fund.

    The worst housing slump since the Great Depression has so far driven property values down by about 31 percent since a mid- 2006 peak, according to an S&P/Case-Shiller index.

  3. grim says:

    What foreclosure crisis?

    From HousingWire:

    Freddie Mac sells record-number REO at 94% of market value

    Freddie Mae sold a record number of real estate owned properties in 2011 and got pretty decent pricing on most of them, according to Tracy Mooney, senior vice president of single-family servicing and real estate owned properties at Freddie.

    Mooney said in a blog post Monday that the majority of REO sales at the government-sponsored enterprise are going to owner-occupants.

    “While we have always been open to selling to investors, our strategy is to limit the concentration of investor sales in any given area,” Mooney said. “In addition, we do not typically consider any offers that require significant discount pricing.”

    Mooney said the success of the pricing system hinges on stellar property preservation.

    Within three days of the occupant leaving the house is cleared, cleaned and secured. The property is then continually landscaped to try to preserve or improve neighborhood-wide valuations.

    “We sold a record number of single-family REO homes in the first nine months of 2011 — more than 80,000 — and we are selling more homes than we are taking in through foreclosure,” Mooney said. “Thanks to our innovative sales strategies and top-performing broker network, our homes are selling in approximately four months — or about 120 days.”

  4. AG says:

    Corzine is on a winning streak. Sunk 50 billion of the public pension fund in march 2009. Lost 22 mil on the election. Now stole millions from mf global. Economic Hitman. Financial genius right marxists? We just elected communits to our local council. The end is near.

  5. George Soros says:

    US investors are buying more homes in China than they do here. No wonder we see lower prices ahead and skyrocketing price in Chinese real estate

  6. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    grim #3 – from the article: Freddie is not disclosing how much they may be losing on the deals, ultimately, as the unpaid principal balance is not included in SEC filings.

    Also, no mention of how many of these disposals are in non-judicial states, I’m guessing somewhere around 79,996 out of 80,000?

  7. grim says:

    Wouldn’t those deck chairs would look so much better on the other side of the boat?

    From Reuters:

    U.S. Congress moves to raise FHA loan limits

    Republicans and Democrats in the U.S. Congress on Monday agreed on a measure that would increase the maximum size of mortgage loans that can be insured by the Federal Housing Administration, a key funding source for U.S. home loans.

    The measure to raise the loan limits backed by the FHA still has to pass the Republican-led house and Democrat-controlled Senate before it becomes law, but the agreement by a bipartisan panel of lawmakers from both chambers indicates a strong likelihood of final approval.

    The limits, which vary by real-estate markets, fell at the end of September for mortgages insured by the FHA, as well as government-controlled Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac . The higher loan limit was temporarily raised for Fannie, Freddie and the FHA during the financial crisis and it automatically dropped back to $625,500 on Oct. 1.

    The agreement reached among House and Senate leaders excludes those loans guaranteed by Fannie and Freddie, which provide about half of the funding of all U.S. residential home loans. The deal would only impact FHA’s loan limits, restoring the cap for mortgages the government insures to as high as $729,750 in high-cost real estate markets through 2013.

    The agreement follows a polarizing debate over the size of mortgages the federal government should back. The measure to increase the legal limits on the size of mortgages the FHA can insure was included in a bill to fund a large swath of government programs, from food inspection to law enforcement, that is seen as must-pass legislation for many lawmakers.

  8. grim says:

    From the NYT:

    Tax Burdens Tilt Coastal, and System’s Fairness Is Debated

    The wealthy have been the subject of much discussion lately, from the protesters on Wall Street to lawmakers in Washington. President Obama has even provided a definition of who’s wealthy in arguing that taxes should be raised for those households with incomes of at least $250,000 a year.

    But is that really the marker of wealth? After all, earning $250,000 a year in New York does not buy as much as it does in, say, Iowa or Alabama.

    Or put another way: Why doesn’t the tax code account for regional differences in tax burdens?

    While the question begins with households earning more than $250,000 a year in places like Boston, New York and San Francisco, the issue of fairness is not just for the top 2 percent to ponder. Workers at all income levels are affected by regional differences in federal taxes. Local taxes may also be high in these areas, though economists argue that residents at least get something for those taxes, like good schools and safe neighborhoods. According to David Yves Albouy, an assistant professor of economics at the University of Michigan and an expert on geographic tax inequality, teachers in New York may be among the highest paid in the country, but their salaries don’t give them any extra buying power because the cost of living is so high.

    The average pay of a New York public school teacher in 2009-10 was $78,885. But rent for a two-bedroom apartment in Manhattan averages $3,715 a month.

    “A lot of the 1 percent lives in New York,” he said, “but I’d say 98 percent of the people who live in New York are part of the 99 percent, and they get the short end of the stick.”

  9. borat obama says:

    First

  10. It’s a very big matter.

  11. Bocephus says:

    The rich matter until they are poor. Rinse and repeat.

  12. 3B says:

    #12 We are in lock down in downtown NYC. Police in riot helmets everywhere.

    Protesters will be allowed back into Zucotti Park starting at 8:30 A.M., but without back packs and tents.

  13. JJ says:

    If you get rid of the rich there will only be poor. JJ

    Cuomo is cutting the millionaire tax in NY, it ends next month. Anyone with a big NY salary who lives in a highly taxed house in NJ whose last kid just left for college can ditch the millionaire tax, huge RE taxes, high car and home insurance and long and expensive commute by just moving to New York.

    20 years ago young people in NY used to use their parents address in NJ to avoid high income taxes, how times have changed.

    My rich friends parents had one of those huge overpriced white elephants in NJ they sold it when they retired, for price of home they got a home in the hamptons with 2,400 in RE taxes and a pied a tier in NYC with low maint and a doorman. Hamptons are their primary address so no NYC taxes. They have one
    collectable car they keep at their hampton house with $100 bucks a year insurance. They cut a huge amounts of taxes and their lifestyle has approved 100%. Meanwhile their costs have fallen. Only a sucker would retire in NJ in a big house in middle of nowhere with 30K taxes and a huge heating bill and nothing to do.

  14. Shore Guy says:

    A more just economic system. Just ask the Occupy Wall Streeters:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saXu42OCi5Y&feature=related

  15. Shore Guy says:

    The 99% welcome the 1% back to their homes after they get their way:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq__Z-Z_Ofs&feature=related

  16. Shore Guy says:

    “can ditch the millionaire tax, huge RE taxes, high car and home insurance and long and expensive commute by just moving to New York. ”

    If one has a high-paying job in Manhattan, the kids are grown and out of the house, and one will take advantage of entertainment/cultural attractions in Manhattan, one would do well to live there, at least as long as they are not infirm. The rents may be too damn high in NY but after considering income taxes, travel costs, and whatnot in the NJ burbs, the difference is not so great to outweigh the advantages of not having to get in a car for every last activity.

  17. Shore Guy says:

    Well, off to maker a buck, Obama needs to redistribute it to someone more worthy.

  18. gary says:

    U.S. home prices will probably decline an additional 6 percent to 8 percent before bottoming, Pacific Investment Management Co.’s Scott Simon said.

    Every year for the last five years we’ve heard about another 6% or 7% decline in prices. And you know they mean it in nominal terms. Next year will be another 6% decline followed by 2013 and into 2014 finally approaching the trend line. You can sandbag, pump like crazy, pray and wish it away but eventually, the turbulence will subside only when the water finds its natural level of rest.

  19. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (16) shore,

    if that ever came to pass, the wealthy would simply leave their homes after they mortgaged them to the hilt, and go offshore to join their money.

    the poor would get the house and the banks would get the debt, meaning the taxpayer would get the debt.

    what happens next?

    I have some imperial russian bonds at home. The coupons dated november 1918 and after are still attached.

  20. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Per Bloomberg, Paulson getting out of banks and gold.
    Einhorn getting out of healthcare.
    Other managers said to be going defensive.

  21. JJ says:

    Paulson bought four million more BAC shares and sold 1/3 of gold. That is not defensive

  22. JJ says:

    I would say the more infirm the more NYC makes sense. I have two aunts who live in city. one is 82 and one is 92. The 82 year old ditched her house at 62 when she was widowed and bought a beautiful one bedroom doorman apt. She has more serious health problems than most can imagine. She already had cancer in her 40s and 50s so she knew she would have health problems. She pays 550 maint, no mortgage, has her husbands garbagemans pension and medical. No car, heating or gas bills and cable is even in maint, only bill she has is electric. She goes to great doctors walking distance and even in lobby of building and just pushes intercom when she needs cab and doorman has one waiting for her trips to mt sinai to monitor her cancer is still in remission. She lives with traders, actress and all type of rich folk. She was nervous when her daughter talker her into this 20 years ago but best decision what would she do in suburbs as a sick widow. My 92 year old aunt still lives in manhattan, rent control baby, 63 years in same three bedroom apt and pays around 700 a month rent and is on a 100K NYC pension from husband. Even at 92 she goes to yankee games, broadway plays dinners. She has freedom in city since she can no longer drive.

    When I lived in NYC I used to do laundry, go to cleaners, pick up milk etc. before work. People in building walked dogs, went to gym even went to diner next door for breakfast on weekdays!!!! I left for work at 8:30am and had dress down at work. I did not even have to get ready for work until 8:15am. Heck quality of life was so high I recall once I go up at six am hit my friends after hours club near my house for two hours, and was at work at 8:30am. Guy at work was shocked when I told him I met Joe Montana at a bar. He was like wow when I said two hours ago. Too bad rents are so high. But now I start to see some little coops pop up in BK now and then. I want to grab one near bottom of this cycle, we all should. Jersey is a hard commute to city no matter how you slice it.

    Shore Guy says:
    November 15, 2011 at 8:58 am
    “can ditch the millionaire tax, huge RE taxes, high car and home insurance and long and expensive commute by just moving to New York. ”

    If one has a high-paying job in Manhattan, the kids are grown and out of the house, and one will take advantage of entertainment/cultural attractions in Manhattan, one would do well to live there, at least as long as they are not infirm. The rents may be too damn high in NY but after considering income taxes, travel costs, and whatnot in the NJ burbs, the difference is not so great to outweigh the advantages of not having to get in a car for every last activity.

  23. JJ says:

    The 8% more is most likely bottom. At 8% it is 50% of all homeowners are underwater. At that point US has to step in to stop it by all means as everyone will start walking away and create a contagion and collaspe fannie and freddie.
    But 8% more is a big kick in the shorts as it gets us back to 1990s pricing.
    gary says:
    November 15, 2011 at 9:00 am
    U.S. home prices will probably decline an additional 6 percent to 8 percent before bottoming, Pacific Investment Management Co.’s Scott Simon said.

    Every year for the last five years we’ve heard about another 6% or 7% decline in prices. And you know they mean it in nominal terms. Next year will be another 6% decline followed by 2013 and into 2014 finally approaching the trend line. You can sandbag, pump like crazy, pray and wish it away but eventually, the turbulence will subside only when the water finds its natural level of rest.

  24. Shore Guy says:

    Winston Smith would feel right at home:
    The city council in Oxford, England, has unveiled plans to require the taping of all conversations inside the 600-plus taxis licensed by the city, Sky News reports.

    Under the plan, all conversations would be taped on surveillance cameras from the moment the engine in the taxi starts up until 30 minutes after it is switched off.

    The council said the plan was critical for providing evidence of attacks on drivers and in cases where there were allegations of driver misconduct, The Oxford Times reports.

    Nick Pickles, director of the civil liberties group Big Brother, calls the plan “a staggering invasion of privacy,” the Daily Mail reports.

    The footage would not be routinely viewed and would be kept for 28 days on a hard-drive.

    snip

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/11/oxford-taxis-record-conversations/1

  25. livinginpa says:

    Haven’t posted in awhile. Still sitting in a rental looking for the “right” move. Gets a bit tight at times, but I’m happy not to own any real estate at the moment. Interesting article on prudence of paying off mortgage for retirement in this environment. Would be interested in hearing your views.

    http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2011/11/mcmansions_swell_the_real_east.html

  26. gary says:

    J La,

    Are you out there? Tell me more about the true culture of FL as you see it?

  27. Outofstater says:

    #8 Which came first? The very generous salary, pension and benefits for public employees or the cost of living? When you don’t have to save for a rainy day, or for medical expenses or retirement, suddenly all kinds of spending possibilities open up.

  28. Juice Box says:

    re #13 – 3B – Showdown for Bloomberg seems the Hippies already have an injunction.

    Hours after baton-wielding cops cleared Occupy Wall Street protesters and their tents out of Zuccotti Park, a judge signed a order Tuesday saying the demonstrators can return with their stuff.

    Mayor Bloomberg said the city was trying to clarify the restraining order signed by Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Lucy Billings, a former civil liberties lawyer.

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/court-order-city-t-occupy-wall-street-protesters-stuff-zuccotti-park-article-1.977674#ixzz1dms9DZq3

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/court-order-city-t-occupy-wall-street-protesters-stuff-zuccotti-park-article-1.977674

  29. Painhrtz - I ain't dead yet says:

    And why shouldn’t a retired cop drive an 8oK dually as a second car, own 20 acres with 3500 square foot home in warren county and Have a 200K Rv for his fishing trips to lake ontario like some of the guys I know. They are blue collar afterall.

    I have to get back to work so they can live their lavish lifestyle.

  30. Juice Box says:

    Isn’t one of Paulson’s funds down 47% YTD? Did he go long Europe like Corzine?

    He also was in paper gold not the real deal. Paper gold performed well this year.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=GLD+Interactive#chart1:symbol=gld;range=1y;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined

    BAC shares? BAC has been trading sideways a the bottom for 3 months now, they are laying off lots and closing branches, the sold off their Chinese investments and have tens of Billion in lawsuits over their head. It will be a long road back for them especially if the hippies keep pulling their money out of the bank and targeting them.

    I gather when you can no longer pick which Mortgages to short you cannot easily math the gains of 2007-2008.

  31. JJ says:

    Juice box you catching the Das Racist show this week you playa, they are in town.

  32. prtraders2000 says:

    How important are permits when doing home improvements? Family member doing improvements himself and with the help of a handyman says they are for “suckas”. Sees no need to invite inspectors into his home and is certain that the other neighbors in his blue collar town aren’t bothering with permits either. As a prospective homebuyer, should I be asking to see permits when house appears to have recent renovations?

  33. Juice Box says:

    JJ – I would not enjoy it since I am not fluent in Ebonics, last show I went to was Tim McGraw.

  34. JJ says:

    Depends. For instance I had a kitchen and have a permit to have a kitchen. I ripped out said kitchen put dumpster in driveway and put in new kitchen. Technically I needed to pay permit fees. But to home buyer it is irrelevant when I sell as I have a CO to have a kitchen and I have a kitchen.

    When permits become an issue is when I bought my house an owner put a third bathroom, two decks, a porch and a dormer without a permit. Bank won’t close on house with out money in escrow and lots of headaches if they count three bathrooms and you only have co for two bathrooms.

    In the end owner put money into escrow to get the COs, but I had to do all the leg work getting inspections and getting forms etc. I could not charge for my time. My prior owner was a nut but he at least had guys who built to code but no permit. No body gets permits as it is just trouble. Plus the permits all all phoney balney anyhow. I got a CO for my house by paying fees and paying one electrician to look at it. Doubt electirican spent three minutes in house I just need his signature and a receipt to get paid out of escow.

    The one catch is when you buy without cos on major additions your taxes can go up.

    prtraders2000 says:
    November 15, 2011 at 10:53 am
    How important are permits when doing home improvements? Family member doing improvements himself and with the help of a handyman says they are for “suckas”. Sees no need to invite inspectors into his home and is certain that the other neighbors in his blue collar town aren’t bothering with permits either. As a prospective homebuyer, should I be asking to see permits when house appears to have recent renovations?

  35. hughesrep says:

    34

    I ran into an issue when I bought my house. I had to have the furnace and AC replaced. I hired a customer to do it on the side, and bought mine through work. They caught up with me a year later. I did not realize I had a temporary CO based upon the furnace being replaced. Even though it was in and running for a year I had to go through the whole permit process.

    That being said I don’t believe think the previous owner got a permit for his deck or sun room on the back side of the house. If they did they were the worst inspector ever or were bought off. The construction was a joke, They never caught either one when I closed.

    Aen’t you in Bricktucky? I would think a c-note would cover any issues.

  36. Juice Box says:

    prtraders2000 – town could make it a living hell to get a CO, I have heard stories of them requiring walls be ripped out for wiring inspections.

  37. Libtard in the City says:

    The permitting process is a two-edged sword. The biggest danger of not taking one out is that if the town catches up to you, they can force you to rip down the work if they can’t inspect it to see if it meets code. Also, as someone else alluded to, if you are adding fixtures or square footage, you may have a hard time selling your place if it’s not listed on the local governments property card. So essentially, if you are doing a one for one replacement and you are not going to sell anytime soon, you shouldn’t pull one.

    Also, when we recently refinanced, among the thousand hoops we were forced to jump through (keep in mind, just 4 years ago you simply wrote an X) we were required to submit the permits for the renovations we did.

  38. grim (3)-

    Those guys are a bunch of baldfaced liars. Perhaps they can get 94% of some fantasy “market value” on REO in which the former owners stayed and maintained the place up until the FK…but to suggest that kind of owner is representative of your typical FK’d homeowner strains credulity.

    Most REO- even in the 1mm+ range- has serious deferred maintenance issues which Phony/Fraudy take their sweet time in addressing in most instances.

  39. prtraders2000 says:

    37

    I rent in Bricktucky, don’t plan on buying there for obvious reasons. Trying to sell the wife on Fair Haven. But I’d even settle for Point Pleasant.

  40. JJ says:

    November 15, 2011 at 11:25 am
    grim (3)-
    Very easy to get 94% of current market value. They never said they are getting 94% of loan amount.

    Home purchased 2006 500K, todays market value 300K. They are saying they got 94% of 300k or 282K.

    Those guys are a bunch of baldfaced liars. Perhaps they can get 94% of some fantasy “market value” on REO in which the former owners stayed and maintained the place up until the FK…but to suggest that kind of owner is representative of your typical FK’d homeowner strains credulity.

    Most REO- even in the 1mm+ range- has serious deferred maintenance issues which Phony/Fraudy take their sweet time in addressing in most instances.

  41. Anon E. Moose says:

    Juice [30];

    a judge signed a order Tuesday saying the demonstrators can return with their stuff.

    Their ‘stuff’ – meaning tents/tarps/etc. is at the piers in a heap where it can be claimed after a few days pass to resolve potential competing claims.

    On the other hand, their ‘stuff’ – meaning the drugs and paraphernalia contained in the tents, will likely never be claimed, nor the tents that contined them.

    Zucotti went from smelling like pot and patchouli to smelling like Pine Sol, and we are all better for it.

  42. gary says:

    Bricktucky! LOL! Ain’t it the truth! My first house was in Ocean County as that’s what I could afford at the time after just entering my second career. My daughter was born in Brick and to this day… I was tempted to continue driving up the Parkway into Manhattan so she could be delivered there. If I would’ve known it would take hours before she arrived, I would’ve done it. I sometimes tell her that it would’ve been so Chic to say she was born in Manhattan but unfortunately, had to settle for Brick (ugh!). ;)

  43. Confused in NJ says:

    ….41% of People Say American Dream Is Lost; 63% Say Economy Getting Worse: Y! Finance Survey

    ..By Aaron Task
    .PostsWebsiteRSS .By Aaron Task | Daily Ticker – 2 hours 2 minutes ago

    A new survey by Yahoo! Finance shows Americans have a disturbing lack of hope and a frightening lack of retirement planning.

    Among the highlights of the poll:

    — 41% of Americans say the ‘American Dream’ has been lost.

    — 37% of adults have NO retirement savings and 38% plan to live off Social Security.

    — 63% of Americans believe the economy is getting worse, including 72% of those over the age of 55.

    These findings are consistent with broader trends The Daily Ticker has reported on in the past year: Despite macro data showing the economy has technically recovered from the ‘Great Recession’, the majority of Americans just aren’t feeling it. Considering 49 million Americans are living in poverty, the “real” unemployment rate is 16% and millions of Americans are facing foreclosure, it’s no wonder many believe the recession never ended.

    Consistent with that sentiment, the survey shows a plurality of Americans are less willing to take on debt, feel less confident about buying at house, and are spending less yet have lower savings vs. 1- and 3-years ago.

    Aaron Task is the host of The Daily Ticker. You can follow him on Twitter at @aarontask or email him at altask@yahoo.com

    ..

  44. JJ says:

    I was born at a hospital in Manhattan. Hence my cooolness. Jewish Memorial Hospital on Broadway rocked baby!!!! Went bk in 1983 but man oh man to say I was born on Broadway in Jewish Hospital has opened so many doors for me.

    ry says:
    November 15, 2011 at 11:45 am
    Bricktucky! LOL! Ain’t it the truth! My first house was in Ocean County as that’s what I could afford at the time after just entering my second career. My daughter was born in Brick and to this day… I was tempted to continue driving up the Parkway into Manhattan so she could be delivered there. If I would’ve known it would take hours before she arrived, I would’ve done it. I sometimes tell her that it would’ve been so Chic to say she was born in Manhattan but unfortunately, had to settle for Brick (ugh!). ;)

  45. 3B says:

    #44 gary: I got better than that, I lived on Madison Ave in Manhattan until I was four.

  46. Painhrtz - I ain't dead yet says:

    JJ all boy deliveries were 20% off?

  47. JJ says:

    Back then the rabbis did the C-cuts only on jewish boys, if you were non-jewish you had to have it done on your own. But prices were great. Only downside was the non jewish babies had cross shaped coffins and my little hat had thorns in it.

    Painhrtz – I ain’t dead yet says:
    November 15, 2011 at 12:07 pm
    JJ all boy deliveries were 20% off?

  48. JC says:

    In WT they have just passed an ordinance where you have to pay a $100 fee for the privilege of having your house inspected before you are allowed to sell it. If you have outstanding permits, you pay a $200 fine and are given a certain amount of time to address the issue. And if you don’t, they keep nailing you for $200 every time. The bottom line is that it’s easier to just get the d*mn permit than deal with this crap when you want to sell. Of course it’s about the revenue lost from people like me who successfully appealed our assessments, but I guess they figure if you’re selling, they don’t care what you think.

  49. hughesrep says:

    41

    We looked in Point. Yards tended to be too small. We have two young ones and the wife wanted a pool.

    My lot is on the border between Ocean and Monmouth. My fence and my German Shepherd are the only things keeping the heathens out of Monmouth County.

  50. Painhrtz - I ain't dead yet says:

    hughs my fence and GSD do the same thing accept it is deer, high school kids and rif raf from Dover

  51. Juice Box says:

    re: # 43 – Moose

    “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.” – John F. Kennedy

  52. pain (48)-

    If the delivery was 20% off, imagine what the discount on the circumc!sion was.

  53. box (53)-

    Violent revolution is inevitable, anyway. Don’t think for a second that this whole sweep at Zuccotti was for any purpose other than triggering violence.

    Seems like the campers didn’t take the bait, though. Wonder what the storm troopers will try now…

  54. Juice Box says:

    re : #55 – Meat – Every generation has it’s revolution, I just wonder whether we will get the far left organizing ala the the Weathermen of the 1970s.

  55. Anon E. Moose says:

    Con’t [43];

    >one wonders whether the campers, with winter on the way, shouldn’t quietly thank [Bloomberg]. Going out in a dramatic police assault must be preferable to seeing the “occupation” end with a whimper during the first prolonged cold spell.<

    http://on.wsj.com/rs253H

  56. Anon E. Moose says:

    The self-described “movement” got flushed.

  57. 3B says:

    #57 Anon: If you were actually down there, it might not seem so cut and dry to you, as you make it appear to be. Take your choice the OWS crowd, or the miscreants at Penn State rioting.

  58. Juice Box says:

    Moose – we will see things occur in less contained manner now. They already took over another park by canal st that is owned by a church, remains to be seen if they can keep it.

  59. Shore Guy says:

    I just saw these two adjacent news items on the Google news Web site. Is it that the research is not working out or just that NJ is again chasing away a promising industry?

    ABC News Geron halting stem cell research, laying off staff
    USA Today – ‎1 hour ago‎

    TRENTON, NJ – The company doing the first government-approved test of embryonic stem cell therapy is discontinuing further stem cell work, a move with stark implications for a field offering hope of future medicines for conditions with inadequate or no …
    Related Geron » Geron abandons stem cell therapy as treatment for paralysisThe GuardianAnalysis: Stem cell research: win some, lose someReutersSee all 139 sources »

    Los Angeles Times Hype Aside, Hope for Stem Cell Therapy May Be Emerging From Hibernation
    Forbes – ‎2 hours ago‎

    Two small studies of cardiac stem cells for the treatment of heart failure have shown promise, but ABC News, CBSnews.com/8301-504763_162-57324259-10391704/stem-cells-cure-heart-failure-what-breakthrough-study-shows/”>CBS News and other media

  60. Shore Guy says:

    This is just wrong, wrong, wrong. No judge, let alone a justice of SCOTUS should be allowed to do this sort of thing without having to recuse him/herself:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/11/15/scalia-and-thomas-party-with-healthcare-opponents-on-day-court-takes-up-healthcare-challenge/

    16 16 1 2 0
    The Los Angeles Times is reporting that just hours after the United States Supreme Court huddled to decide whether it would take up the constitutionality of the Affordable Care Act, Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas were honored at a dinner sponsored by the very law firm that will argue for the challengers in the case.

    Among the sponsors of the fundraiser for the Federalist Society, a conservative group long favored by Scalia and Thomas, were Bancroft PLLC, the law firm that will argue that the insurance mandate provisions of the ACA is an overreach of Congress’ powers under the Commerce Clause of the Constitution and, therefore, unconstitutional. Also listed as an event sponsor was law firm Jones Day, the lead counsel in a separate case challenging the law brought by the National Federation of Independent Business.

    snip

  61. Shore Guy says:

    “They already took over another park by canal st that is owned by a church, remains to be seen if they can keep it.”

    Where are Murrow’s Boys at our hour of need?

  62. gary says:

    Moose [58],

    It was the Oblammy administration that ordered the disembowelment of the Zoo-cooti clan. At first, the Unions and ivory tower charalatans were all for it as it looked like they could establish momentum and solidify their anti-capital stance. As soon as they realized independents would quickly discover what Oblammy’s core constituents represented, they cut the cord.

  63. Juice Box says:

    Shore – lots of media arrested since last night.

  64. A.West says:

    My favorite thing about living and working in NJ is that I’m outside of the immediate nuclear blast radius of a bomb set off in Manhattan.
    I’m getting Wall St. compensation while doing a 12 minute commute in NJ. I lucked out and my company is relocating its office from the next town over, and into my town, which will cut my commute time to 9 minutes.

    I still think we should relocate to Florida or Wyoming, though, to get even further from Wall St, and get away from state income taxes, high cost of living. It would also help to identify those most committed to the firm.

  65. Juice Box says:

    re: #66 A. West – A Wall St woman I know moved to Wyoming during the bubble years and phoned it in from her Ranch. Thought she had the system beat came to NY once a month and dialed in the rest of the month. Right now she is on the unemployment line in Wyoming. Out of Sight Out of Mind comes into play when they start making the short lists of who stays and who gets cut.

  66. A.West says:

    Juice Box,
    Yes, the whole head office needs to move for it to work. I worked in a satellite for a couple of years (HQ in FL, me in a startup NYC satellite) and within a couple of years I was more or less edited out of the picture, though I didn’t mind so much as the point of my move was to look for something better anyway.

  67. A.West says:

    How many Occupy Wall Streeters had posters that called for Jon Corzine’s head on a stake? Or Soros’?

    That should be a pretty good measure of whether they’re just leftist dupes for hire, or not.

  68. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    The Indiana Supreme Court handed down a decision on tax refunds that will be heard by SCOTUS. Here is the Indiana syllabus:

    “The City of Indianapolis abandoned the Barrett Law method of financing sewer improvements in favor of a new system that imposes less of a financial burden on property owners. To ease the transition, the City discharged all outstanding Barrett Law assessments owing as of November 1, 2005, but did not give refunds to those property owners who had previously paid their Barrett Law assessments in full or in part. We hold that the City did not violate the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment because forgiving only the outstanding assessment balances was rationally related to a legitimate governmental interest.”

    So, if you were poor and dragging your feet in paying, you got out of paying the balance of the assessment when they changed the law. But if you were fully paid and compliant, you got bupkus. And Indiana said it was “rationally related to a legitimate government interest.”

    Anyone here got a problem with that? Well, read the text of the decision where the rubber meets the road and decide for yourself what constitutes “legitimate government interest”.

    “Similar to the reasons prompting the overall transition to STEP, the text of Resolution 101 provides that it was enacted because Barrett Law funding imposed financial hardships on middle- and low-income property owners who were often most in need of sanitary sewers due to failing septic systems. Appellant’s App. 337, 350. Providing relief or support for citizens facing financial hardship is clearly a legitimate interest. E.g., Fitzgerald, 539 U.S. at 108-09, 123 S.Ct. 2156; Carmichael, 301 U.S. at 515, 57 S.Ct. 868 (“Support of the poor has long been recognized as a public purpose.” (citing Kelly v. Pittsburgh, 104 U.S. 78, 81, 26 L.Ed. 658 (1881))).

    Moreover, it was reasonable for the City to believe that property owners who had already paid their assessments were in better financial positions than those who chose installment plans. To be sure, there might be some property owners who could have paid up front but elected to pay in installments, despite being required to pay more because of interest. And it is possible that there are some who paid up front that are currently experiencing financial hardship. But, like in Clover Leaf Creamery, it does not matter under rational basis review what the actual facts would show, as determined in court, so long as the issue was at least debatable when the governmental decision maker acted. Thus, the Court of Appeals erred in requiring the City to come forth with proof that all the property owners who had their assessments discharged were actually middle- or low-income participants in the Brisbane/Manning Project. See Armour, 918 N.E.2d at 413 n. 9. Finally, eliminating tax burdens is clearly a rational way of eliminating financial hardship caused by the tax burden.

    There are several other interrelated plausible policy reasons for Resolution 563*563 101.[11] As noted under Background, supra, the Brisbane/Manning Project was one of 40-plus Barrett Law projects subject to Resolution 101. The City could have reasonably believed that the benefits of simplifying sanitary sewer funding outweighed the effort of continuing a collection system for thousands of taxpayers, some of whom owed all, some a lot, and some only a little of their respective assessments. This is particularly so since keeping the outstanding payment obligations in play would have meant not only maintaining such a collection system but also sitting on the tax liens for up to 30 years. See Carmichael, 301 U.S. at 511, 57 S.Ct. 868; see also Beach Communications, 508 U.S. at 317-19, 113 S.Ct. 2096 (justifying classification on administrative efficiency and conservation of limited regulatory resources); Lehnhausen, 410 U.S. at 365, 93 S.Ct. 1001 (same). And the fact that it chose to draw the line at November 1, 2005, was a matter of discretion appropriately exercised by the City and the Board. See Fitzgerald, 539 U.S. at 108, 123 S.Ct. 2156 (“`The “task of classifying persons for … benefits … inevitably requires that some persons who have an almost equally strong claim to favored treatment be placed on different sides of the line,” and the fact the line might have been drawn differently at some points is a matter for legislative, rather than judicial, consideration.'” (quoting Fritz, 449 U.S. at 179, 101 S.Ct. 453) (omissions in original)).

    Furthermore, the decision not to issue refunds to those who had already paid implicates another legitimate interest— preservation of limited resources. The City clearly has a legitimate interest in not emptying its coffers to provide refunds to those who had already paid their assessments. The funds from the particular assessments at issue here were used to fund the Brisbane/Manning Project and had already been spent in constructing those sewers. The plaintiffs each paid for a 564*564 sewer and received a sewer, along with all the attendant public health benefits associated with sanitary sewers. This was not a case in which the plaintiffs were assessed for a local benefit and did not receive that local benefit. Cf. Carmichael, 301 U.S. at 523 n. 15, 57 S.Ct. 868 (providing that where a local special assessment is “apportioned to benefits it is not constitutionally defective because the assessment exceeds the benefits” (citation omitted)). It is true that those whose assessments were discharged also received a sewer and did so at a lower price. But the Equal Protection Clause does not require substantive equality among taxpayers if there is a rational basis for differing treatment, and the Court of Appeals erred in concluding otherwise.”

    “Laws? We don’t need no stinkin’ laws”

  69. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Not exactly news, but Republican Coburn calls for means-testing.

    http://coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=bb1c90bc-660c-477e-91e6-91c970fbee1f

    It’s coming folks. Not if, but when.

  70. Anon E. Moose says:

    3B [59];

    If I were down there (pre-raid), I’d likely get a contact high, and I’d prefer not to take that chance. Certain professions require a clear head.

    I’m not about to defend the kids at Penn State, but they aren’t seeking to influence government policy, nor claiming to speak for “the 99%” (more like 99IQ). In short, your comparison is weak.

  71. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [71] shore

    History repeats itself . . .

    The wave of emigration, which has included large numbers of educated Russians, has grave implications for a country of 142 million with a death rate significantly higher than its birthrate. . . . . “People are going abroad for better college education, for better medical help, for better career opportunities, believing they will come back someday, but very few actually do,” said Dmitry Oreshkin, a political analyst with the Institute of Geography. “The intellectual potential of the nation is being washed away, as the most mobile, intelligent and active are leaving.”

    Lev Gudkov, head of Levada, also sees a political dimension. “The worst thing is that people who could have played a key role in the modernization campaign proclaimed by the Kremlin are all leaving,” Gudkov said. “But it appears that the Kremlin couldn’t care less if the most talented, the most active Russians are emigrating, because their exodus lifts the social and political tension in the country and weakens the opposition.”

    But Valery Fyodorov, the head of [the Kremlin-leaning] VTsIOM, says the current emigration has very little to do with politics.

    “A majority of those who want to leave the country are already quite successful in Russia,” Fyodorov said. “They simply want to live even better and try something new.”

    /snip

    Of course, with all that extra space and a screaming need for immigration, I think that the head of the Russian delegation in NYC should head for Zuccotti Park, immigration applications in hand . . .

  72. Juice Box says:

    China Bubble goes pop?

    “Cheng says that for the last decade the Chinese regime has accumulated its wealth primarily by promoting real estate development, buying urban and suburban residential properties at low prices (or simply taking them), and selling them to developers at high prices.”

    http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/world/chinese-tv-host-says-regime-nearly-bankrupt-141214.html

  73. nj escapee says:

    Russians immigrants sure love the climate down here in the Keys. We have a boatload of them.

  74. 3B says:

    #73 Anon: Like I said you have not been down there. As far as my comaprison being weak, weak, no, simple yes. two extremes if you will.The rioting kids at Penn State however are simpletons.

  75. J La says:

    Re: In General, or as it relates to Wyckoff?

    There are plenty who are down to earth. Most of that crowd, my friends, were born in either FL or Wyk. I’d say FL is more diverse, as Wyk has always been lily white. Wyk is more community minded, travel sports (my kids don’t participate) and centers around YMCA. FL culture is more likely at Indian Trail, which is a fantastic club, and ironically very Ridgewood as well. FL are more apt to send kids to private school; FL are not nearly as good as WYK. Let me know if you want more specifics.

  76. Anon E. Moose says:

    3B [77];

    Like I said you have not been down there.

    So what? Unlike those hippified Obamaroids, I have a job and a life. Not to mention the fact that, although I am not strictly speaking “the 1%”, I can see right through that rhetoric to realize that no person with a dollar more than them (excepting the vanguards like Michael Moore, Steve Jobs, George Soros, et al.) is considered worthy nor safe from their wrath. I lost nothing by failing to attend except a contact high.

  77. Shore Guy says:

    Now a break from the mundane. Take a deeper step off of planet earth and into the quagmire that is Happy Valley for this latest development, which sounds like it was created by a soap opera writer:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/jerry-sandusky-s-lawyer-joe-amendola-a-16-year-old-client-pregnant-married-article-1.977873?localLinksEnabled=false&google_editors_picks=true

    Joe Amendola, the State College, Pa., attorney representing accused child molester Jerry Sandusky, has an interesting back story himself: He got a teen-age client pregnant during the mid-1990s.

    Amendola, 63, married the girl several years after the birth of their child, The Daily reported Monday night, citing documents filed at the Centre County, Pa., courthouse.

    Amendola represented a 16-year-old girl then known as Mary Iavasile when she filed an emancipation petition in September 1996. The emancipation petition said the girl had graduated from high school in two years with a 3.69 GPA and held a fulltime job at Amendola’s law office.

    snip

  78. juice (56)-

    In case we get Weathermen-type activity, I have a copy of Steal This Book in my attic. :)

  79. shore (80)-

    Great. Maybe the dolts who attend PSU will riot on Amendola’s behalf.

    Maybe moose will stage a one-man riot on his behalf.

  80. Moose, can we take your siding with the NYC storm troopers as a tacit admission that you’re a paid lackey of banksters?

    Own up to it. We’ve all pretty much figured it out anyway.

  81. Anon E. Moose says:

    Meat [84];

    We’ve all pretty much figured it out anyway.

    You know what they say about opinions — among other things, eveybody has one.

  82. Captain Foresight HEHEHE says:

    Juice,

    Paulson got hammered on BAC but he also had a huge position in SINO Forest.

  83. Mikeinwaiting says:

    hughesrep how did you like lunch or should I not ask.

  84. moose (85)-

    Instead of your lame-ass comebacks at me, why don’t you just come clean, you bankster lackey stooge?

  85. Shore Guy says:

    Did I hear correctly that Obama thinks Hawaii is in Asia?

  86. Shadow of John says:

    Im tired of all the oldtimers who visit the office talking about how they lost everything in the crash and had to endure the great Depression. First off if it was so bad why do they call it great? Really if you go out on a date with three women and they use you as a sexual play toy all night long and someone asks you how your date went and you say great does that mean it was bad?

    Loosing money onthe street is no big deal. I once lost my lunch in the backseat of my dads limo. You know the one with the crush velour seats. The worst part was having to apologize to the chick I was back there with. She got so pissed that she stormed out of the car with Ted Kennedy and I didnt see them again until their bottle ran out.

    Ahh, the Stony Brook days.

  87. Shore Guy says:

    Maybe Jon Corzine should go and work for the Postal Service, it seems like he would feel right at home:

    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-11-15/postal-service-sees-14-1-billion-loss-as-mail-volumes-sink.html

    Postal Service Sees $14.1 Billion Loss as Mail Volumes Sink
    Nov. 15 (Bloomberg) — The U.S. Postal Service forecast a record $14.1 billion loss for the 2012 fiscal year as a drop in mail volumes accelerates.

    “We continue to see steady declines, unfortunately, in first-class mail, which is our most profitable product,” Postmaster General Patrick Donahoe said at a board meeting in Washington today. “We have to build tomorrow’s Postal Service based on revenue and volume projections as we look forward. We can’t look backward.”

    The amount of mail delivered by the Postal Service will probably fall about 6 percent in fiscal 2012, exceeding the drop of about 2 percent a year earlier, according to Chief Financial Officer Joe Corbett. Revenue will probably decline to $64 billion in 2012 from $65.7 billion in 2011, he said.

    Mail volumes have dropped more than 20 percent in the last five years, hurt by the recession and the increasing use of electronic communications by individuals and businesses. The service, which is supposed to support itself financially, is closing post offices and processing plants, cutting jobs and promoting the mailing of letters and packages.

    snip

  88. Shore Guy says:

    Hey Shadow,

    You guys were the Shewolves. Right?

  89. Hughesrep says:

    Mike

    Plans changed did not make lunch. A few new customers in that area though. I’ll check it out

  90. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Hughesrep Let me know been awhile. I hope the employment package was up to snuff.

  91. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Better go find Kettle.

  92. Buying Hunt says:

    WFC was locked down today. Aren’t we all stooges of investment banks in one way or another?

  93. hunt (96)-

    Sorry. I should’ve said BOUGHT AND PAID FOR stooges.

  94. Bocephus says:

    The Stooges and the MC5 kicked ass.

  95. Confused in NJ says:

    Was watching the 1952 Will Rogers movie tonight where he barnstorms during the “Great Depression” to raise money to feed out of work people. We could use him now.

  96. cobbler says:

    shore [91]
    USPS has a bunch of mandates (like delivering 1st class mail daily to every faraway place for 45 cents) and Congressionally tied hands in terms of setting up new services. Unless this changes, it will need an increasing operational subsidy, no matter who is the boss there.

  97. Fabius Maximus says:

    J La
    I have a lot of friends in that area. I think Indian Trail has changed over the years and has moved on from stay at home mom dropping the kids for summer camp in the family stationwagon. Its now new money ladies who lunch and tennis, just one step above the Taylor ham Barbies (RHWoNJ). There are a lot of those big mansions with a nice car in the driveway, but a lot of unfurnished rooms inside. On the other end, there are a lot of really nice families with a boat load of money, that are really down to earth. Shadow Lake is a hidden gem and a lot quieter than Spring Lake at the Y.

    Wyk is a strange place I can’t get my head around. There are some great things going for it, but some big drawbacks. There is a big deal made of where you live and there there is an income gap and status gap in the high schools. The Board of Ed is a mess. All but two members turned over in a two year period. One got arrrested for robbing a local pharma for pa1nkillers. The ReMax broker had a small problem with some pictures that he is probably doing time for. They tendered out the school janitors to “save” money, but slapped a big extension they didn’t need on the library.

  98. Libtard at home says:

    Shore,

    I had to stop to listen to the supposed Obama Asia gaffe. It’s complete krap. No one can fabricate a story quite like FOX can. He left out the words “or in”. It was simply his style of speech. So absolutely pathetic this country has become. We are truly sedated moron sheep. Where’s that border collie? Either in Plasma or in LED directly in front of your nose.

  99. Shore Guy says:

    Nom,

    Note the loss of taxpayers and where they have gone:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204323904577038301564134954.html

  100. NjescaPee says:

    cobbler, no doubt that we live in a 2 tier society but it is not as apparent here in Flyover country.

  101. bocephus (98)-

    Agreed.

  102. escape (106)-

    Pretty soon, our whole planet will be flyover country.

    Extinction before recovery.

  103. nj escapee says:

    Meat, we’ll be okay as long as our supply of cheap booze remains plentiful.

  104. J La says:

    Re: 102

    Fab Max, ITC has changed, it expanded tremendously, but still remains in firm control of the “family”, who fall into the latter category of your social description of the town. As for the unfurnished fancy houses, thanks for saying what I tactifully tried to describe to Gary.

    As for Wyckoff, where I live, I agree with most of what you said. There is a definate undercurrent of political favoritism, and public servants run amok. What you describe is just a tip of the iceberg when it comes to some commercial deals that take place. But show me a town that doesn’t have it’s share if issues, and I’ll guarantee it’s a place that able to keep it quieter. Board of Ed issues included.

    The income gap exists because the town grew economically so quickly, that old-timers, and those on the lower scale never had a chance to catch their breath. Naturally, that adds to the stress of the BOE issue with regards to school spending. As the high schools are regional, between, FL, Wyk, and Oakland, the difference in schooling between the towns presents then, with Wyk always the better of the three.

    And yes, location Wyk does matter to “those who notice”. Sicomac then the Knolls are the “desired” areas.

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