Jersey’s got the highest down payments in the nation

From New Jersey Newsroom:

N.J. tops housing market with highest average mortgage down payment

Out of all 50 states, New Jersey has the highest average down payment on real estate purchases, according to a new report published by LendingTree.com, an online resource for personal financial management.

For residential real estate transactions, New Jersey boasts an average 13.76 percent down payment, roughly 1.5 percent higher than the national average. Conversely, North Dakota has the lowest average with 11.37 percent.

Following New Jersey in the top five are Washington, D.C., New York, Hawaii and California. Rounding out the bottom with North Dakota are Wyoming, Oklahoma, Utah and Tennessee.

The study comes on the heels of a federal proposal that would require homebuyers to pay at least 20 percent of the down payment when purchasing a house. The measure was met with much controversy and public outcry earlier in 2011; its fate has yet to be determined.

“If federal regulators were to adopt the proposed 20 percent down payment requirement, a majority of borrowers wouldn’t be able to meet the standard given the findings in this report,” stated Doug Lebda, founder and CEO of LendingTree, in an official press release. “While this rule has yet to be put into effect, borrowers should be aware of the possibility and plan for future home loan needs.”

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165 Responses to Jersey’s got the highest down payments in the nation

  1. Juice Box says:

    FHA is still 3.5% isn’t it?

  2. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  3. Fabius Maximus says:

    #1 Juice

    Even at 3.5%, it takes a lot of Skittles to saddle up a Unicorn.

  4. Shore Guy says:

    FM,

    There is something “Johnish” about that comment.

  5. Mike says:

    so what if it passes and the majority of buyers can’t put down 20% just some more downward adjustment on the price of the homes. Problem solved by Mike the economist

  6. grim says:

    Plenty of buyers are putting down smaller down payments, not because it’s all they can afford, but because they are choosing to stay more liquid. I’ve had clients that went FHA and could perfectly well qualify for a conventional at 20% down or more. Also, buyers are holding back some of the DP cash to put back into the property as renovation post-closing, this will clearly screw up the DP calculation since the initial investment is the downpayment + renovations.

    And why not? Lower exposure with a smaller down payment, and the ability to stay liquid longer, should someone lose a job, etc. Rates are pretty low these days, makes this approach relatively painless from a cost standpoint.

    FHA at 3.5% shows that the government is committed to maintaining a housing finance system that can support low down payments.

  7. Juice Box says:

    #6 – Housing policy is to stick your head in the sand and hope for the best.

  8. gary says:

    If one cannot put 20% down and still be liquid enough to sleep at night, then one shouldn’t be buying the house. End of story.

  9. grim says:

    Crazy thing about this report is that I’d have expected the opposite from a “common sense” standpoint.

    The reasoning would go something like – lower DP’s in higher cost markets, and higher DP’s in lower cost markets.

  10. grim says:

    #7 – Kind on like our foreign and energy policies? Put a bomb in the sand and hope for the best?

  11. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (105) (prior thread) meat,

    Not me. I know a lot of folks at IRS campuses, and they are normal grunts doing an unpopular job. I think your bile is better directed to the beltway.

  12. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    I’ve long maintained that democratic dogma was that housing prices should be lower. This was never formal policy (not a popular stance) but it served well several dem planks. When housing tanked, I postulated that dems at national level were secretly pleased.

    This rule will further that goal while also restraining banks. But it also forces dems to toss a couple of key constituencies under the bus, namely the subprime borrowers and democratic cities. The former will be helped by lower prices but the cities will be screwed by tanking ratables, especially when their core families bolt for the suddenly affordable suburbs.

  13. JJ says:

    So I sold my moms house to a flipper in 2004 who was renting it out ever since . I see a few months ago he sold it for a 150K profit. Little internet research revealed he set up a dummy llc sold the house to the dummy llc at a 150K profit and is still renting it out.

    Guess stategy is to take 100% financing cash out and down road let LLC default.
    America is a great country.

  14. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [9];

    What about the mix? For people who got in the game in the 90’s era or earlier, plenty of bubble equity still remains, even at present market levels. If they “buy right” in this market, they can trade up or downsize with a nice equity cushion. Meanwhile the person buying their ‘starter’ home from them is using a 3.5% FHA. ‘On average’ the downpayments look just fine.

  15. JJ says:

    I don’t see point of liquidity. I would just stop reinvesting bond interest and dividends if I were laid off and use that to pay expenses. Why do I need cash laying around? Plus you are not creating liquidity by taking on monthly debt. The cash in bank would still go to debt payments if laid off. It would not be free cash. People should focus on having no monthly debt payments and maintain an income stream .

    Retired people have paid off all debts and locked in an income stream via anuitys, cds, treasuries, munis, investment grade bonds and blue chip dividend paying stocks prior to collaspe of interest rates really are happy. The people who stayed all in cash are not happy.

    grim says:
    December 13, 2011 at 8:20 am
    Plenty of buyers are putting down smaller down payments, not because it’s all they can afford, but because they are choosing to stay more liquid. I’ve had clients that went FHA and could perfectly well qualify for a conventional at 20% down or more. Also, buyers are holding back some of the DP cash to put back into the property as renovation post-closing, this will clearly screw up the DP calculation since the initial investment is the downpayment + renovations.

    And why not? Lower exposure with a smaller down payment, and the ability to stay liquid longer, should someone lose a job, etc. Rates are pretty low these days, makes this approach relatively painless from a cost standpoint.

    FHA at 3.5% shows that the government is committed to maintaining a housing finance system that can support low down payments.

  16. Thomas G says:

    Great post ! I so appreciate this site. This is the information I was looking for.

  17. Juice Box says:

    Grim # 17 in mod… no idea why

  18. prtraders2000 says:

    My boss is the executor of an estate with a house for sale in Verona and he just accepted an offer over the list price with the stipulation that he pay all closing costs. Explanation was that it was an FHA loan and the buyers are trying to hang on to as much cash as possible. Per the realtor they would have enough for a down payment to go conventional if the FHA were to fall through.

  19. Libtard in Union says:

    Better to avoid FHA with the higher fees and interest rates and just do a piggy back (HELOC) since the rates are so low. Especially if you have the means to pay off the HELOC overnight if necessary.

  20. Juice Box says:

    Tard only need a 580 FICO to get the FHA 3.5% down. It should be the other way around the better your score the lower the down payment.

    http://www.bargaineering.com/images/in_posts/FICO-Score-Distribution-Bar-Chart.png

  21. yo says:

    A 3.5% interest rate is equivalent to 2.5% after tax deduction and the ability to add more deductions to it, instead of taking a standard deduction is one way taking a mortgage make sense.And the ability to not use your own money to an asset purchase for almost no interest and gives you the flexibility to walk away from it.
    This ofcourse is ,if you can deduct the interest.AMT is a b*tch

  22. JJ says:

    AMT has nothing to do with mortgage interest. AMT can limit your ability to deduct property taxes. The mortgage interest deduction is far more valuable at higher tax rates than lower tax rates. The property tax deduction is far more valuable at lower tax rates.

  23. yo says:

    So AMT will allow you to deduct mortgage interest rate but limit deduction on property tax,Good to know.I always thought after hitting AMT, it will start limiting all deductions to a certain %.JJ you are the accountant of the blog,you should know

  24. JJ says:

    Mortagage deduction encourages people to take out larger mortgages as up to one million on primary residence is tax deducatable and deduction is based on your income tax rate. So a 15% tax rate person is getting much less than a 36% tax rate person. Plus you automatically get a standard deduction. If you earn under 100K and itemize, at your low tax rate and fact you would have got a standard deduction that is not much less than itemizing home ownership is not a great tax write off. Plus homeownership as a tax dodge should be after you max 401K, max 529, max Flex Spend, Max Trans Check, do IRA if qualified and move taxable CDs to muni bonds. The rich has already maxed out all avenues of tax savings before they move on to a big mortgage. The middle class often cuts 401K contributions and 529 contributions in order to pay for big mortgage which is a zero sum game tax wise.

    yo says:
    December 13, 2011 at 11:05 am
    So AMT will allow you to deduct mortgage interest rate but limit deduction on property tax,Good to know.I always thought after hitting AMT, it will start limiting all deductions to a certain %.JJ you are the accountant of the blog,you should know

  25. Shore Guy says:


    Put a bomb in the sand and hope for the best?”

    Add some benzene, toluene, diesel oil, and whatnot, then you are talking progress.

  26. Shore Guy says:

    “The cash in bank would still go to debt payments if laid off”

    Not all people would do this. In fact, I would assume that those who are looking to put as little into a downpayment would be fare more likely to stop paying the mortgage during an extended bout of unemployment. For them, little in a downpayment, plus taxes, plus limited number of payments on one side is more than offset by three years of mortgage-free living before the sheriff tosses them to the curb.

  27. Anon E. Moose says:

    Con’t [14];

    people who got in the game in the 90′s era or earlier … can trade up or downsize with a nice equity cushion. Meanwhile the person buying their ‘starter’ home from them is using a 3.5% FHA.

    Another example of The Locust Generation eating their young.

  28. Sterling Grey Matters says:

    Could high end buyers be paying more to reduce their mortgage principal to within conforming loan limits, allowing them to qualify for lower interest rates but, as a result, skewing the LTV ratio?

    Also from the report…

    “Additional findings from the LendingTree data include:

    New Jersey, a state with a loan-to-value ratio lower than the national average, also has a higher average home price than most other states. However, New Jersey falls into the higher end of the spectrum in terms of debt-to-income ratios.”

  29. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Sen. Conrad serving up some softballs to Corzine. I think Corzine was initially surprised to get such gratuitious and easy questions that were so curious, I can only surmise that Conrad was giving his old bud a chance to spin positive.

  30. JJ says:

    This worked better when homes were more overpriced. Now we are closer to bottom of housing plus people forget forgiven mortgages are taxable income plus good jobs do credit checks.

    My neighbor who bought his house the week of the peak at 619K should have done this. Instead he put down a lot. He is screwed. he is selling anyhow and now will take 449K. The buyer at 449K who puts down 20% and gets a conforming mortgage is now at break even if he rents. He is much less likely to walk away. The guy at 619k was nuts as he bought a house if he could not make payments he would take a huge loss or rent out at a 2k monthly loss.

    Shore Guy says:
    December 13, 2011 at 11:42 am
    “The cash in bank would still go to debt payments if laid off”

    Not all people would do this. In fact, I would assume that those who are looking to put as little into a downpayment would be fare more likely to stop paying the mortgage during an extended bout of unemployment. For them, little in a downpayment, plus taxes, plus limited number of payments on one side is more than offset by three years of mortgage-free living before the sheriff tosses them to the curb.

  31. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Okay, so I fired off a reply to my soci@list bud who was hitting me up for an urgently needed loan. I pointed out that such would not be favorably received by my similarly conservative spouse, and that I was a bit surprised he did not also reach out to his OWS buddies.

    So I made him an offer. If his OWS buddies ponied up some aid, I’d match it with a loan of $0.50 for every buck they came up with. All he had to do was put out the call on FB to all his uber-progressive friends, many of whom flame at me whenever I comment on his wall.

    He wouldn’t do it.

  32. nj escapee says:

    Moose, instead of being a constant whiner that houses are too expensive in northern NJ, why don’t you move to a lower cost location where housing is cheap. oh yeah, you’re in the I want my cake and eat it too crowd. More than likely you are benefitting from the inflated NY / NJ inspired babyboomer era income levels. Do you think you are worth more than someone in a different state? I doubt it.
    Anon E. Moose says:
    December 13, 2011 at 11:43 am
    Con’t [14];

    people who got in the game in the 90′s era or earlier … can trade up or downsize with a nice equity cushion. Meanwhile the person buying their ‘starter’ home from them is using a 3.5% FHA.

    Another example of The Locust Generation eating their young.

  33. JJ says:

    Fed is going to back-stop mortgage bonds, about time!!! God Bless the Fed!

  34. JJ says:

    Actually people who bought pre-bubble should not even have a mortgage. I bought pre-bubble and refinanced once. Then I threw some bonus money one year against principal and by the time rates fell like a brick after the 2008 collaspe I could not refinance as most banks won’t let you refinance under 100K they have a limit. Back in 1991-1999 homes were in a range of 180K to 280K. Someone who bought a home 20 years ago for 180K that still has a mortgage is in a sad state of affairs. Once principal is under 100K and you can’t refinance and you have a high rate it should just be paid off.

  35. gary says:

    nj escapee [33],

    I have to go with Moose here. House prices and property taxes doubled in the span of 7 years on top of the endless insults by the industry when questioned. F*ck em all is still the attitude I have and this, coming from a homeowner with equity. F*ck em all!!

  36. Anon E. Moose says:

    NJE [33];

    Where are these inflated wages of which you speak?

    Compare housing inflation to wage inflation, e.g., here: http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/rising-student-debt.jpg

    See also inflation-adjusted price-to-income still above pre-bubble levels(unfortunately, not broken down by region).

    Unless you’re arguing that I’ve got it all wrong and it was Genreation Y was selling historically overpriced houses to their parents and grandparents 2002-2009?

  37. gary says:

    The Case-Shiller model in any shape, way or form is the bible. Period.

  38. gary says:

    When the trend line is within smell distance, then it’s time to buy. The Case-Shiller model should have an asterisk because it doesn’t emphasize the anomaly know as crushing property taxes in the state of New Jersey. They f*cking doubled along with house prices in less than a decade. Are you kidding me? That trend line for NJ is going to be obliterated! Buy today and sell for 70% of the purchase price in 2015.

  39. nj escapee says:

    If you (meaning you) get more than $10 / hr you’re being overpaid.

    Anon E. Moose says:
    December 13, 2011 at 1:18 pm
    NJE [33];

    Where are these inflated wages of which you speak?

    Compare housing inflation to wage inflation, e.g., here: http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/rising-student-debt.jpg

    See also inflation-adjusted price-to-income still above pre-bubble levels(unfortunately, not broken down by region).

    Unless you’re arguing that I’ve got it all wrong and it was Genreation Y was selling historically overpriced houses to their parents and grandparents 2002-2009?

  40. nj escapee says:

    Moose, you can find lower priced homes in central jersey and commute like many of us did before your special generation joined the workforce. Or you can continue to rent and whine it’s too high.

  41. Juice Box says:

    Nerds beware.

    http://www.standalone-sysadmin.com/blog/2011/11/usa-computer-professionals-update-act/

    Where is the bill limiting wall street CEO pay?

  42. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Okay, a few have asked privately, and since there has been no other call for a Holiday GTG other than my own, I have decided to make the call after all.

    I am proposing a Holiday GTG, Thursday, 12/15, 6:30 until whenever

    Location: To be determined by this Group, but as a default, I am going with Kilkenny House, 112 South Ave., Cranford (steps from Cranford stop on RVL).

    As an alternate, I propose Sat. night, same time, location TBA.

    Please chime in if you are in for Thursday, or want the Sat. option. Also, if there is a preferrred watering hole, instead of Cranford, let me know as well.

  43. nj escapee says:

    Moose, I’ll bet that was often the case in the socalled “sand states.” It was widely reported that many senior citizens bought high and lost their shirts.

    “Unless you’re arguing that I’ve got it all wrong and it was Genreation Y was selling historically overpriced houses to their parents and grandparents 2002-2009?”

  44. JJ says:

    Unless you have parents who bought his first home at the peak of the first bubble in 1986/1987 and you bought your first home at peak of next bubble 2005/2006 you should be good.

    luckily most people in my age group parents bought homes in 1960s/1970s and they bought their first home in the 1990s so they missed both bubbles.

    nj escapee says:
    December 13, 2011 at 2:15 pm
    Moose, I’ll bet that was often the case in the socalled “sand states.” It was widely reported that many senior citizens bought high and lost their shirts.

    “Unless you’re arguing that I’ve got it all wrong and it was Genreation Y was selling historically overpriced houses to their parents and grandparents 2002-2009?”

  45. Anon E. Moose says:

    NJE;

    [42] strike one…
    [43] strike two…
    [46] strike three, you’re out.

    Your Boomer anger at being labeled “The Locust Generation” duly noted.

    http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/tradition.png

  46. Orion says:

    Yipeeee,

    Just got my assessment lowered by $127,000!
    Tax bill for 2012 will be easier on the wallet….

  47. JJ says:

    That chart is comparing an unskilled workers salary in 1978 to today. True a new unskilled worker would get killed compared to an unskilled worker in 1978. However, I know many full time grocery baggers from 1978 who were making 9K a year who in 2011 make 300K a year. The hardworking kid who went to school at night and busted his butt is making at least 20x what they did as a 20 something kid in 78

    Anon E. Moose says:
    December 13, 2011 at 1:18 pm
    NJE [33];

    Where are these inflated wages of which you speak?

    Compare housing inflation to wage inflation, e.g., here: http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/rising-student-debt.jpg

    See also inflation-adjusted price-to-income still above pre-bubble levels(unfortunately, not broken down by region).

    Unless you’re arguing that I’ve got it all wrong and it was Genreation Y was selling historically overpriced houses to their parents and grandparents 2002-2009?

  48. JJ says:

    Nice, what was you technique?

    Orion says:
    December 13, 2011 at 2:55 pm
    Yipeeee,

    Just got my assessment lowered by $127,000!
    Tax bill for 2012 will be easier on the wallet….

  49. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [9] grim – From reading the main article and the linked source(s), I can’t find out how they calculated the numbers. If two houses sell, one a 20% DP on a $600K house and the other a 10% DP on a $150K house, is the average DP:

    a.) 15% (10%+20%)/2
    b.) 18% (120K + 15K)/(600K + 150K)

    Crazy thing about this report is that I’d have expected the opposite from a “common sense” standpoint.

  50. nj escapee says:

    Moose, alright, feliz navidad was played out 40 years ago just like today’s cr-p composed /recorded and produced with bootlegged protools and a mac. your generation has real talent.

  51. JCer says:

    juice[44], if it wasn’t bad enough that congress and the politicians look the other way on H1B visa abuses from outsourcing companies, this just continues further down that route. Anytime someone is hiring for technology and says they can’t find a person with the skills they need, it is usually because they aren’t paying enough, and they are surprised when the only applicants they get are 2-3 yrs of experience guys. It’s amazing how finance people really don’t understand simple finance, business, etc. If you absolutely need the infrastructure to conduct business you probably should invest and have the best people possible. For some reason IT, the thing that largely makes the volume of business being conducted possible, is most routinely what is cut first.

  52. Shore Guy says:

    #49 Drinks doen at the Stone Pony (or even Moonstruck) are on Orion.

  53. cobbler says:

    nom [12]
    But it also forces dems to toss a couple of key constituencies under the bus, namely the subprime borrowers and democratic cities. The former will be helped by lower prices but the cities will be screwed by tanking ratables, especially when their core families bolt for the suddenly affordable suburbs.
    One can argue that – on average – subprime borrowers are not necessarily dem constituency. If you look at say Florida, most high-foreclosure areas have got Rep congressmen. Most subprime went to white working/lower-middle class borrowers which except for the union members vote 70% Republican.
    I don’t see much bolting for the suburbs, either – seems to be other way around, people are crowding into Hoboken as if there were no tomorrow.

  54. freedy says:

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/45659547/

    How bout this beauty, going to revise home count from “07”

  55. Jill says:

    Orion #49: Congratulations! I did mine too, got a reduction of just over $100K and a $1500 reduction in taxes…at least until they do a reval. I hired an appraiser and paid him $500 for appraisal + hearing appearance. Turns out the town appraiser was willing to make a deal and ended up accepting the appraisal because when HE said the house was worth $15K more than the appraisal, I asked him for the addresses of HIS comps demonstrating that value. Of course he didn’t have them. $200/month more in my pocket.

  56. Double Down says:

    Great color photos of our classified stealth drone in a Iranian aircraft hangar:

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/12/world/meast/iran-us-drone

    “Can we have our downed drone back, please?” – Obama

    “A covert mission destroyed the downed drone yesterday at 3:42AM Washington time.” – Bush

  57. Anon E. Moose says:

    Freedy [58];

    Oops. Sorry. *shrug*

  58. chicagofinance says:

    Why not clot’s place? Convenient to everyone including JJ….

    Comrade Nom Deplume says:
    December 13, 2011 at 2:11 pm
    Okay, a few have asked privately, and since there has been no other call for a Holiday GTG other than my own, I have decided to make the call after all.

    I am proposing a Holiday GTG, Thursday, 12/15, 6:30 until whenever

    Location: To be determined by this Group, but as a default, I am going with Kilkenny House, 112 South Ave., Cranford (steps from Cranford stop on RVL).

    As an alternate, I propose Sat. night, same time, location TBA.

    Please chime in if you are in for Thursday, or want the Sat. option. Also, if there is a preferrred watering hole, instead of Cranford, let me know as well.

  59. chicagofinance says:

    Exchange Street PATH station……

  60. freedy says:

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/45659547

    yes, we over counted . So what , what are you going to do about it ? nothing
    pay your taxes

  61. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [56] cobbler,

    Respectfully, I disagree that the LMI-subprime population is not a dem constituency. First, resort to congressional districts and subprime rates is not telling. That data doesn’t necessarily correlate to voting, and if it did, it doesn’t vitiate the general rule that the urban lower mid class and upper poor, the primary subprime demographic, largely vote democratic. Unless the data shows that a GOP district was overwhelmingly made up of subprime borrowers, that data doesn’t correlate.

    As for cities, and putting aside the fact that you rely on an outlier in Hoboken, you are comparing current trends to future (predicted) facts. If the 20% down requirement takes the LMI borrower out, it kills the move-up market for the LMI borrowers. That will depress house prices further in move-up suburbs already getting hit by flight to better suburbs or back into the city centers, and in a great many urban neighborhoods (which tend to be democratically controlled) because the target borrowers won’t be able to get mortgages. Qualified borrowers will be fewer and will be able to dictate prices more readily. However, there will be qualifiers and a lot of people in declining cities that can put together the scratch will be able to more easily afford the burbs and get out, particularly out of places like the Rust Belt cities or 2nd tier California cities (destination cities like NY, Boston, LA, Chicago, Miami, DC, will not suffer this fate to the same degree). The drop in values in affected neighborhoods will squeeze city budgets that rely on property tax revenues.

    Hence my conclusion that the method of implementing this rule, that the dems seek at the national level, a reduction in home prices generally, will have consequences for LMI borrowers (fewer will qualify) and certain cities (that will lose stable residents).

  62. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    WASHINGTON — An increasingly testy Senate panel today demanded to know who at MF Global could have authorized the transfer of customer assets out of segregated futures accounts, but they got no clear answers from Jon Corzine and two of his hip hop lieutenants at the failed futures firm, who denied making such a call.

    http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2011/12/jon_corzine_back_before_congre.html

  63. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Take it, Jon

    Pant-up demand baby,
    Got some Pant-up demand for you,
    Pant-up demand baby,
    My shorty know it’s true.

  64. cobbler says:

    nom [66]
    Regarding natural party constituencies, try this:
    http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/27/the-future-of-the-obama-coalition/
    For decades, Democrats have suffered continuous and increasingly severe losses among white voters. But preparations by Democratic operatives for the 2012 election make it clear for the first time that the party will explicitly abandon the white working class.

  65. cobbler says:

    Chinese cyberspies everywhere:
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-13/china-based-hacking-of-760-companies-reflects-undeclared-global-cyber-war.html

    “They are stealing everything that isn’t bolted down, and it’s getting exponentially worse,” said Representative Mike Rogers, a Michigan Republican who is chairman of the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.
    China has made industrial espionage an integral part of its economic policy, stealing company secrets to help it leapfrog over U.S. and other foreign competitors to further its goal of becoming the world’s largest economy, U.S. intelligence officials have concluded in a report released last month.

  66. RayC says:

    http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/13/real_estate/home_sales_revision/index.htm?hpt=hp_c1

    Oops. Why did they eventually correct this? Do realtors finally need prices to come dow further to get any sales?

  67. A.West says:

    Cranford at 6:30? I’m a definite maybe.

  68. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (72) west

    Appreciate the shout. Though it is looking like an awfully small holiday gtg. Good thing this place has guiness on tap.

  69. relo says:

    I’m going to try to be there (where & whenever it winds up).

  70. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (69) cobbler

    Great stuff. Texeria has been expounding on demographics so I believe this is a correct call. But no one in the admin will admit this. And now they have to defend this turf because of this claim.

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  72. yo says:

    Bartlett found a poll ( I beleive an NYT poll) that asked the extent to which people agree or disagreed with the statement:

    “it is the responsibility of government to reduce income differences.”

    Since we live in a country in which the government pursues a wide range of policies that increase income differences, most poll takers could not help but be confused by this sort of question. After all, we have a government that subsidizes Wall Street by providing too big to fail protection and massive subsidies when the doofuses bring their banks to the brink of ruin. It grants drug companies patent monopolies that raise the price of drugs by hundreds of billions of dollars above the free market price.

    We have a trade policy that is designed to put our manufacturing workers in direct competition with the lowest paid workers in the developing world while protecting our most highly educated workers from the same competition. And, we have a central bank (the Fed), which deliberately acts to throw people out of work to ensure that inflation doesn’t reduce profits in the financial sector.

    Most people would probably be happy to have a government that did not increase income differences. Asking them about a government that reduces income differences no doubt would strike poll takers as a bizarre question.

    Dean Baker

  73. Neanderthal Economist says:

    If you make it near exchange im in for a few…

  74. aj says:

    Hi Grim

    There is a article today in CNN Money that NAR is going to restate the existing home sales lower going back all the way till 2007. It would be nice to put that article on this blog.

    I love the last line of the article which says:
    “Yun emphasized that the revisions will have no impact on consumers because median home price data will not be revised”

  75. aj says:

    Here is a link to the cnn money article about the existing home sales to be revised lower:

    http://money.cnn.com/2011/12/13/real_estate/home_sales_revision/?source=cnn_bin

  76. yo says:

    Taxpayers Finance Miami Marlins Christmas List
    By Steven Malanga

    Nobody has been on a holiday shopping spree in America that matches the newly renamed Miami Marlins baseball team. In just a few weeks the Marlins have inked three free-agent deals, committing about $191 million in payroll for batting champion Jose Reyes, reliever extraordinaire Heath Bell, and perfect-gamer Mark Buehrle. Practically every story on these deals notes that the Marlins, whose entire payroll was a scant $29 million just a few years ago, have been stocking up in the hopes of filling a glitzy, new $645 million domed stadium with fans.

    But the Marlins would likely have been unable to afford this holiday-season splurge were it not that the taxpayers of South Florida financed three-quarters of the team’s new stadium, largely against their will. The entire stadium affair, details of which are under investigation by the Securities and Exchange Commission, is a startling lesson in the way that politicians star-struck by pro sports and team owners continue to tap the public treasury, often against the wishes of the public itself. More such deals are in the works.

    The Marlins have suffered for years from among the worst attendance in Major League Baseball, blamed on everything from the scorching Miami summer heat and uncomfortable humidity to the fact that so many local baseball fans migrated from somewhere else and remain loyal to their former teams. The team has threatened to leave the area numerous times, complaining that the rent deal they had at Dolphins Stadium, where they received no revenues from concessions, was a money-loser, though a leaked financial statement showed that the Marlins actually earned $33 million over 2008 and 2009.

    http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2011/12/14/taxpayers_finance_miami_marlins_christmas_list_99420.html

  77. JJ says:

    What a confilict on interest having a town appraiser. If you think about he is paid by the town and town charges taxes to pay his salary so higher taxes benefit him. Also a conflict of interest you hired an appraiser as he is paid by you and it is in his interest to give a lower appraiser.

    Then the two appraisers meet and the one who overvalued comes down and the one who undervalues comes up and your property gets appraised for exactly what it is worth.

    You are smart and correct for hiring an appraiser. But what a crazy system.
    Jill says:
    December 13, 2011 at 5:30 pm
    Orion #49: Congratulations! I did mine too, got a reduction of just over $100K and a $1500 reduction in taxes…at least until they do a reval. I hired an appraiser and paid him $500 for appraisal + hearing appearance. Turns out the town appraiser was willing to make a deal and ended up accepting the appraisal because when HE said the house was worth $15K more than the appraisal, I asked him for the addresses of HIS comps demonstrating that value. Of course he didn’t have them. $200/month more in my pocket.

  78. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    You all know I hate the Jets but this is sick. And bizarre if you think about it as KC is more like Green Bay, not Philadelphia, when it comes to their fans.

    “A diehard New York Jets fan was savagely beaten on his own turf by a drunken gang of Kansas City Chiefs fans after their team was trounced Sunday — with one of the assailants barking “F*ck New York” and “You all deserved what happened on 9/11,” the victim’s distraught family told the New York Post. . . .

    . . . . State troopers arrested one of the alleged attackers, a New Jersey man, on a simple assault charge . . . .”

    /snips

    http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/New-York-Jets-fan-badly-beaten-after-game-121311

  79. JJ says:

    That Jet fan did not deserve it. But time and time again I see hot heads at Jet games. Visitor fans are usually the drunkest as it is a big road trip and nice weather like Sunday on a one pm game people drink even more in lots.

    But Jet fan lacked a bit of plain old common sense. The KC fans were taunting him trying to get an excuse to beat the crap out of him. Finally when they started the 9/11 stuff Jet fan who was by himself went to a group of drunk KC fans and got a beating. Meanwhile Jets have a whole text system in place. You just text seat number or parking lot number and security responds really quick. Tickets state clearly do not ever approach drunken fans and that is how fights start and it is dangerous, let security handle it. Sadly Jets encourage so much drinking idiots cause trouble and then good guys after a few drinks get beer muscles and want to go over there and tell trouble makers off. I like hundreds of other fans who went through lot J would have kept on going or at best text their parking lot number to security from car.

  80. Juice Box says:

    A little Fib from Jon Boy to congress?

    Bloomberg Video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrZFkBflllg

  81. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [84] JJ What a confilict on interest having a town appraiser.

    You can say the same thing about any politician who “negotiates” contracts with public sector unions.

  82. JJ says:

    2011 Predictions Year in Review. OK, this year I matched my January 2009 call of buying Junk bonds with my January 2011 call of buying Munis.

    We do the annual predictions here so for once I have no clue what to invest in from an all in perspective. 2009 was all in Junk, 2011 was all in Munis, this year I don’t see a single investment that compels me other than to dip my toe in.

    So whatcha folks got? What are the 2012 investing predictions? I got nothing so looking for advice.

    Refuting Whitney’s forecast, which helped send borrowing costs to two-year highs in January, the $3.7 trillion municipal- bond market rebounded this year, generating an average total return of 10 percent through Dec. 12, better than U.S. Treasuries and corporate bonds, Bank of America Merrill Lynch indexes show. Munis also trounced equities as the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index lost (SPX) 0.6 percent in the same period.

  83. JJ says:

    1.95% on ten year. more refinancing to come.

  84. Juice Box says:

    JJ – For the last 30 years the trend in Mortgage interest rates has been on a downward slope inverse to credit expansion.

    Back in the In the 1980s nobody could imagine a mortgage rate below 10%. In the 1990s nobody could imagine a mortgage rate below 7%. In the 2000s, nobody could imagine a mortgage rate below 5%. Yet here we are the next decade and mortgage rates have spent the last month in the 4% range.

    If we use the Japanese Real Estate Bubble and 10 Year bond as an example their government spent 20 years trying to prop up banks with piles of bad loans.

    Current 10 year yield in Japan is 1.100%
    Current Mortgage Rates in Japan are now 2%

    How low can we go? Just ask the Fed for a date when they will stop monetizing.

  85. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [87] juice,

    I hope that this gets some traction and Jonny gets tainted, but that Holder and regulators decide there is no there there and don’t pursue. Then Issa and the GOP have a credible “culture of corruption” claim to hammer Obama with in 2012.

  86. Mike says:

    Chicago & Nom Is Killkenny House a go? If so is it by invitation only? Check out this picture taken after Irene http://photos.nj.com/cranford-photos/2011/08/hurricane_irene_in_cranford_26.html

  87. Captain Foresight HEHEHE says:
  88. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [89] JJ

    Going with domestic, dividend-paying, widow and orphan stocks in non-retirement accounts. For retirement funds, I got no effing idea.

    Shiny off a bunch. Figure it to get a 1,5 handle. Not sure of a 1,4 handle though.

  89. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [93] mike

    1. Yes, its a go.
    2. No, it is not by invitation only. Anyone can show and should, and some of you owe me a drink so you’d better show.
    3. That picture explains why things looked new when I was there last week.

    Reminder: Holiday GTG Tomorrow (Thursday) night, 6:30 until whenever.
    Kilkenny House,
    112 South Ave (across from NJT station).
    Cranford

  90. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [86] JJ

    I found the story odd because it seemed out of character for KC fans. And the guy arrested was from New Jersey! Now he could be a transplant, but how long does one have to live in NJ before one becomes an a-hole? I’m an attorney so I had a head start, but what’s the average?

    And on that note, I am off to my salt mine. Right after I cleared up my main matters for the year over the weekend, I got an email from a client with some additional work. It’s from one of my favorite clients so I’ll be largely out of the loop until the GTG.

  91. 30 year realtor says:

    regarding the story in Money about NAR, double counting is a major issue!I belong to 3 MLS’s. NJMLS requires that any listing I input into Hudson MLS or GSMLS must be inputted into NJMLS as well or they fine me. When they count up all the MLS transactions all of those listings that sell are counted twice. In North Jersey this could account for an estimated 15% to 20% over count of closed sales.

  92. Captain Foresight HEHEHE says:

    “Shiny off a bunch. Figure it to get a 1,5 handle. Not sure of a 1,4 handle though.”

    Liquidities supposedly tight, selling what people will by, plus need that end of year window dressing.

  93. JJ says:

    I like don’t love it. I do agree best of the bunch.

    Worried about cap gain rates rising on dividends which may hit blue chip high dividend payers. Worried gold may be down or flat for a long time. Plus Europe sitting on huge amounts of good, if default happens and they need real cash vault doors may swing open.

    Comrade Nom Deplume says:
    December 14, 2011 at 10:17 am
    [89] JJ

    Going with domestic, dividend-paying, widow and orphan stocks in non-retirement accounts. For retirement funds, I got no effing idea.

    Shiny off a bunch. Figure it to get a 1,5 handle. Not sure of a 1,4 handle though.

  94. Juice Box says:

    re: Jets fan beat up.

    Only a stoned fool would engage 10 or so tweakers by yourself in a yelling match over a 9/11 slight that occurred when you were 12 years old.

    KC Fans = drunk tweakers
    Jets Fans = drunk pot heads

  95. Mike says:

    96 Nom Thanks

  96. The Original NJ Expat says:

    Some well thought out commentary from Ann Barnhardt on Corzine et al testimony from yesterday:

    “Interestingly, when Duffy threw Corzine under the bus, all that happened was that the grease from Corzine’s filthy physical person caused a momentary loss of traction on the rear axle of the bus. There was a wee fishtailing, but nothing more. Apparently a net worth in excess of $400 million does not translate into good personal hygiene. Corzine’s hair is so greasy that it darn near drips. You can smell his filthy b.o./Axe Body Spray stench THROUGH THE INTERWEBS. I guess you can take the scumbag out of Jersey, but you can never take the Jersey out of the scumbag. “

    Much more and worth a read. Front page right now at:

    http://www.barnhardt.biz/

  97. Libtard in Union says:

    Nom,

    I should be there, but can’t get smashed as I have a hockey game at 10pm.

  98. Captain Foresight HEHEHE says:

    My prediction for 2012 is that I improve my spelling.

  99. gary says:

    Are there really Kansas City Chiefs fans in the NY/NJ/CT area? Are these individuals experiencing a psychological or behavioral pattern generally associated with subjective distress or disability?

  100. Shore Guy says:

    “Kansas City Chiefs fans in the NY/NJ/CT area?”

    Gary,

    I was wondering the same thing. Really, but for a transplant from the KC area, how does one become a Chiefs fan in NJ. I have nothing against the Chiefs and still know players and other Chiefs’ personnel but, really, a NJ Chiefs fan?

  101. Shore Guy says:

    As for opposing-teams’ fans visiting one’s own team’s stadium, I fall into the camp that says “treat them really well.” If they win, they are more likely to be gracious. If they lose, they walk away speaking highly of the opposing fans.

    The Nebraska fans and athletic department staff were like this. They bent over backwards to be nice before and after the game. The visiting-team locker room was no nicer than any other (and was actually pretty bad) but the people were outstanding. Because of positive interactions with people in and around Memorial Stadium, I have never begruged any of Nebraska’s success.

  102. Anon E. Moose says:

    Bailout Nation: http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/yahoo-study-homeowners-want-political-action.html

    Lots to cirticise about the reportage:
    51% of American adults agree that the government should do more to rescue homeowners at risk of losing their mortgage, while 27% disagree and 22% don’t have an opinion.

    How many of those surveyed want the gubmint to get the h*ll out of the way so prices can fall to sustainable levels?

  103. Shore Guy says:

    “How many of those surveyed want the gubmint to get the h*ll out of the way so prices can fall to sustainable levels?”

    How many of those surveyed have chosen to not overextend themselves financially, buy without financing, and otherwise act prudently? I would think that the percentages would be similar, and small.

  104. Anon E. Moose says:

    Con’t [110];

    The alternative to ‘do more’ in the survey was not ‘disagree’, it was ‘current laws are sufficient’. I’m not convinced that ‘disagree’ fully captures the notion that “You’ve done enough already!”

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  106. JJ says:

    NFL as punishment to KC should announce that Rich Kotitie is their new head coach.

  107. daddyo says:

    Appreciate the shout. Though it is looking like an awfully small holiday gtg. Good thing this place has guiness on tap.

    ————-

    At least get the Climax IPA and support the local brewery!

  108. Libtard in Union says:

    Or Herm Edwards. Oh wait, they already suffered through that.

  109. chicagofinance says:

    Dude….that just showed how much beer was overflowing there and it was consumed a long time ago……

    Mike says:
    December 14, 2011 at 10:16 am
    Chicago & Nom Is Killkenny House a go? If so is it by invitation only? Check out this picture taken after Irene http://photos.nj.com/cranford-photos/2011/08/hurricane_irene_in_cranford_26.html

  110. chicagofinance says:

    Libtard in Union says:
    December 14, 2011 at 12:24 pm
    Or Herm Edwards. Oh wait, they already suffered through that.

    Stu: I thought Edwards was a good coach. His clock management at end of games sucked, and he had a little Marty-Schottenheimer-spit-the-bit chokeness conservatism, but he got players to run through a wall for him. The definitely won some games that they should not have…..if Chad wasn’t constructed from cardboard, he would have fared much better….

  111. chicagofinance says:

    JJ: Please help me out here…..I need more info on this….it certainly appears the TruPS are trading off whatever was said….

    JJ says:
    December 12, 2011 at 12:41 pm
    Chifi are you on BAC conf call right now. Talking Trups. Claims they had 40 billion outstanding and after this “voluntary” offer will have 35 billion. Plan on doing a lot more trup offers. I consented and did not offer up bonds but I have a feeling they will jam me down the road. What do you think? Good call so far.

  112. yo says:

    We need another prediction from Whitney that will blow to make some money for 2012.Big banks bought munis from the taxpayers.I wonder how much they made from all the borrowed money at zero interest.I read,they made 10% on muni bonds as the only lender,when Whitney spooked the public

  113. yo says:

    “The 99%” Time person of the year

  114. 30 year realtor says:

    #110 – Moose, what is a sustainable level in your eyes? In some lower/middle value towns in Bergen County a Cape can be purchased for around $200,000 in good/avg condition. How low does it have to go before you are ready to get in?

    North Jersey prices are getting more stable. Yes they will fall further when all the foreclosure inventory begins to pressure the market, but it won’t be a blood bath where you want to live.

  115. yo says:

    A person that bought a house in 1996 for $126,000 at 8% is paying the same as a person that pays $220,000 at 3.5% today.What affordability?

  116. homeboken says:

    30 year – In some lower/middle value towns in Bergen County a Cape can be purchased for around $200,000 in good/avg condition. How low does it have to go before you are ready to get in?

    Where?

  117. still_looking says:

    Nom,

    Working overnight Thurs. :(

    No GTG for the still_lookings…

    Sat. we could do…

    sl

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  119. JJ says:

    BAC which did the consent on the BAC and MBNA TRUPS recently to ammend the agreement so that they can be swapped at curent market price which is around 91 to an equivalent market price of sub debt did pay the consent fee to everyone including me. So $10,000 Trups at 8% is swapped for $9,100 Sub Debt at 8%. BAC stated they had an internal goal of swapping 5 billion by 12/31. BAC stated on call they met that goal via insitutional swaps only. Retail investors were not offered to swap at a loss.

    However, who knows in 2012 if this will be jammed down throats of retail investors hence the bonds still trading below par. I personally think this is a good investment at current market price as so what if I get swapped out at 91 if I bought at 91. However, these are all older 30 year bonds from mainly the mid to late 90s. I doubt mainy retail investors getting lets say $8,000 a year intest on a 100K bond is interesting in swapping to a $91,000 bond losing 9K and having anual interest fall to $7,280 a year.

    My citi contacts thinks most swaps were bonds BAC already owned or hedge funds or distressed debt players who scooped them up in the 75 range in March 2009 and swapping for high quality more liquid bonds makes sense.

    Bottom line good investment for yield, but can be iluiquid and have to stand tough like the Ford and GMAC bond holders who did not tender when firm tried to strong arm them.

    chicagofinance says:
    December 14, 2011 at 12:50 pm
    JJ: Please help me out here…..I need more info on this….it certainly appears the TruPS are trading off whatever was said….

    JJ says:
    December 12, 2011 at 12:41 pm
    Chifi are you on BAC conf call right now. Talking Trups. Claims they had 40 billion outstanding and after this “voluntary” offer will have 35 billion. Plan on doing a lot more trup offers. I consented and did not offer up bonds but I have a feeling they will jam me down the road. What do you think? Good call so far.

  120. JJ says:

    In 1996 I would pay staff 26-29 around 52K a year, today I pay them 102K. In 1996 a 29 year old male was about to have first kid and have wife stay home. Today, a 29 year old is newly engaged house hunting and wife plans to keep on work, which means dual income of 204k.

    yo says:
    December 14, 2011 at 1:12 pm
    A person that bought a house in 1996 for $126,000 at 8% is paying the same as a person that pays $220,000 at 3.5% today.What affordability?

  121. joyce says:

    129
    you say that all the time, even though you’re corrected each time

    what % of the young couples do you think make $200,000/year? All of them in your mind, it seems

  122. Jill says:

    #122: What towns are you talking about? I regard WT as a middle value town and prices for a cape are on average $300k – $400k depending on updates and condition. 393 Howard St. in WT sold in November for $415K. Emerson is another one; 273 Lincoln Blvd. (cape w/dormer) sold in November for $408K. My own POS appraised last Feb. for $360K with full dormer, 4BR/2 full BA, newly finished basement, 6-year-old Andersen windows, roof, siding, updated electric but old kitchen & baths. Where is this $200K of which you speak? Even the rapidly-deteriorating cape foreclosure in town with the water in the basement from Irene is listed at $299K.

  123. Juice Box says:

    JJ – Might be a bit unpopular but really only 60 years ago women were re-domesticated right after WWII to avoid having a glut of labor.Rosie the Riveter was sent back into the kitchen. If women were re-domesticated again there would be low unemployment and costs would have to adjust to having only one income.

  124. JJ says:

    100% of my staff make at least that as a couple. Then again one guy married a doctor at 26 and one girl marrried a guy 7 years older at 23. Most of my staff make more than I make. And I would say a few hundred people have worked for me over the years.

    I am usually poorest person in department. Why. My parents are dead and my wifes parents are poor. No inheritance or financial help. Most staff have college educated parents who help out and will leave them an inheritance. Most staff have a working spouse I do not.

    A staff member who is set to receive two inheritances and has a spouse pulling down 200K even with a salary of 120 is better off them me. They don’t have to save for retirement, kids education etc as they have inheritance and with two incomes they have to save less as odds of one losing job is less painful. That plus I always save 50% of my income.

    I know a 29 year old on long island who is a 45K clerk who is richer than me. Downpayment on house given to him, parents watch kids for free, has wife making 100K and is set to get a three million inheritance. He spends 110% of what he makes.

    29 year olds sometimes are at peak income. By the time 39 hits and wife is juggling two or three kids and she gets laid off odds are she is never going back to work. The 29 year old man has to double his salary by 39.

    I try to increase my salary 1k a month during peak earning years of 25-50ing. Does not always happen. But if you keep moving up 12k a year for 15 years you can keep up with jones.

    However, I was told that in 1982 make double your age and you are doing really good now in 2012 the saying is make ten times your age and you are doing really good. Gets very hard to make ten times your age as you get older.

    joyce says:
    December 14, 2011 at 3:07 pm
    129
    you say that all the time, even though you’re corrected each time

    what % of the young couples do you think make $200,000/year? All of them in your mind, it seems

  125. JJ says:

    Mad Men era was best era. I do believe women can and should work. I would just suggest that from 30-50 they stay home. Other than that I am ok with it.

    Juice Box says:
    December 14, 2011 at 3:15 pm
    JJ – Might be a bit unpopular but really only 60 years ago women were re-domesticated right after WWII to avoid having a glut of labor.Rosie the Riveter was sent back into the kitchen. If women were re-domesticated again there would be low unemployment and costs would have to adjust to having only one income

  126. joyce says:

    JJ

    If I extrapolate using the 50-60 people that are my family, friends, and coworkers… that would not be an appropriate sample of the average person. Get it?

  127. homeboken says:

    JJ- 10 times your age? So the ideal is for every 22 year old coming out of school to make $220,000? My bet is that your staff makes roughly 2-5 times their age at best.

  128. Juice Box says:

    Things must be really off at the ski mountains out West this season. I just booked a Standard SUV rental for $36 a day out of Denver which should be well north of $100 a day. For giggles I also checked the Four Seasons, they have rooms Christmas week!! It is usually way overbooked months in advance, however no discount it seems. I booked a 4 start scored a nice slope-side place in Vail Village for about 1/2 off. Using up miles for the flights but hey what do I charge everything for anyway. This years ski trip is really one of the cheapest I have ever scored at the last minute, I bet I can do the first class upgrade for $70 at the airport and drink at least that much on the flight and in the lounge and with the free baggage check!! All the while I get to cut the long lines at Denver on the way back.

    Recessions are a good thing when you are cheap like me.

  129. Libtard in Union says:

    Juice.

    I’ll do you one better. Caesar’s is flying me and a guest out to Tahoe and housing me at the base of Heavenly for four days with nothing coming out of my pocket. It’s no Vail, but Squaw is just a rental car ride away. It’s also not during Xmas break.

  130. Juice Box says:

    Re: JJ – Mad Men era is now Mad Woman era. Most of the working women with or without kids don’t want to work, especially late but it seems hubby cannot keep a house over their head on one salary or hubby can’t even keep a job.

    I am lucky my wife works part time to make her feel valuable and I get to tell eveyone my wife barely works so it figures into my comp.

  131. Juice Box says:

    re #141 – so when are we leaving?

  132. Double Down says:

    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international-business/china-says-will-hit-us-auto-imports-with-duties/articleshow/11111420.cms

    14 Dec, 2011, 11.10PM IST, Reuters

    China says will hit US auto imports with duties

    BEIJING/WASHINGTON: China will impose punitive duties of up to 22 percent on large cars and SUVs exported from the United States, China’s Commerce Ministry said on Wednesday, the latest in a series of trade disputes between the world’s two largest economies.

    The new duties take aim at vehicles including the Cadillac SRX made by General Motors Co, Jeeps from Chrysler Group and the U.S.-made BMW X3, all of which China said were being dumped on the Chinese market and causing “substantial damage to China’s domestic industry.”

  133. Libtard in Union says:

    Actually,

    I’m up in the air as to who I’m going with at this point. Perhaps some lucky member of the Kilkenny Krew could convince me to take them. I didn’t get to ski last year with my busted tendon and all.

  134. Fabius Maximus says:

    JJ
    Childcare is the biggest deciding factor with two incomes. This is a great artile that runs the numbers.

    http://www.pfadvice.com/2007/05/10/two-income-trap-why-many-couples-shouldnt-both-be-working-for-the-money/

  135. JJ says:

    Joyce so young so naive don’t you know everyone in the tri-state area is above average.

    I do know people who make less, but they want to make less. People who don’t want to commute to city, people doing a job for love of job not money, people who don’t want a stress full job, people who don’t want to do sales or work long hours. People who don’t want to play the game or politics etc. Heck my favorite subject in school was sociology what am I going to do with that?

    joyce says:
    December 14, 2011 at 3:26 pm
    JJ

    If I extrapolate using the 50-60 people that are my family, friends, and coworkers… that would not be an appropriate sample of the average person. Get it?

  136. Juice Box says:

    O is not vetoing the new defense bill looks like the MIC is winning this round. No austerity for them $166 Billion for Iraq and Afghanistan Wars even though we will be out of Iraq in weeks and Afghanistan next year. Also plenty more innocent will now get to spend some time in a military brig with no access to the courts even if you are a citizen.

    Man has no spine and is a lousy constitutional lawyer.

  137. JJ says:

    Even aside from that. Lets say wife takes job at trader joe by the house. Everone there is taxed at 0 to 15%, my wife would make same crummy salary and is taxed at 40% not worth it.

    Other factor is men often marry younger and for looks. My friend who got married for first time at 43 married a hot younger girl who was 33 he was dating a few years who had some mumbo jumbo 70K a year job. She quit while planning wedding as he was being drawn into wedding planning as she was working. His 500K income made her 70k income a liability when they married plus as a NYC resident she was being taxed around 50% of income. My buddy said for 35K a year the fact I don’t have to listen to her complain about work the first 30 minutes in the door itself is worth 100K. He got a bargain. I told my wife she can go back to work when my youngest goes to college. 14 years from now. She has been home 11 years. She then goes what type of job will I get after 25 years out of work? I say how do I know, but how is it any different than 11 years off. Personally I hope she never works again but I want her to be fulfilled. Maybe she can be one of those real estate agents who drive people around and put out cookies on Sunday. Sounds like easy work.

    Fabius Maximus says:
    December 14, 2011 at 4:08 pm
    JJ
    Childcare is the biggest deciding factor with two incomes. This is a great artile that runs the numbers.

    http://www.pfadvice.com/2007/05/10/two-income-trap-why-many-couples-shouldnt-both-be-working-for-the-money/

  138. JJ says:

    The Treasury Department sold $13 billion in 30-year bonds at a yield of 2.925%, the lowest level on record

    WOW mutual bond fund holders all know January is one of the bigest parial call/full call months of year. Rates that we thought were at a bottom look out. Muni bonds the most. Tons and Tons of 30 year muni bonds callable after ten years were issued between 2006 and 2002 at 5% coupons or great. Many were not called as we had higher rates in 2006-early 2008 and then market conditions for munis after Auction Rate collaspe and Whitney’s predictions made it a hostile market. Now 2012 we have huge demand for tax free munis from retail investors at a time or record low rates. Time to call all those 5% munis and reissue ten year 2.% munis and save 100% in interest. The towns and states will jump on this. Even if rates shoot up next year they pushed out the maturities and remember 2003,2004 and 2005 were low rates so those are ok. But muni yields will get crushed. Very Very few states issue long term non-callable munis most either mature in ten or are callable at ten. By the time January 2013 hits goodbye 5% tax free for years to come.

  139. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (126) sl

    Bit too late. If someone else wants to call a Sat GTG elsewhere in the state, that is probably a great idea.

  140. Juice Box says:

    JJ -Why bother letting her work at a retail place? Might as well teach your wife to go all Mrs Watanabe. The Korean and Japanese housewives day trade Forex to make small amounts $50-$100 a day to supplement income. Open up a small account with limits on leverage.

  141. JJ says:

    Great Opportunity To Downsize Or Upgrade. Home For All Seasons.

    Saw this in an ad. Realtors are smart.

  142. JJ says:

    Giving massages would be a quicker way to earn $100

    Juice Box says:
    December 14, 2011 at 4:43 pm
    JJ -Why bother letting her work at a retail place? Might as well teach your wife to go all Mrs Watanabe. The Korean and Japanese housewives day trade Forex to make small amounts $50-$100 a day to supplement income. Open up a small account with limits on leverage.

  143. Juice Box says:

    JJ – if the wife works giving massages she will be fulfilled?

  144. JCer says:

    double down[141] , that some real chutzpah, the Chinese slapping US produced cars with a tariff. We should tariff everything produced in China because they artificially set prices through currency manipulation. The sooner the gov’t realizes china is the enemy and not a trusted trading partner the better off we’ll be.

  145. JJ says:

    She is fulfilled but the man is left drained.

    Juice Box says:
    December 14, 2011 at 5:03 pm
    JJ – if the wife works giving massages she will be fulfilled?

  146. chicagofinance says:

    I have scads of NCL zeroes from 20’s to 26’s that I bought on the selloff in Oct 08-Mar09…..its the gift that keeps on giving….it is insane how much these moved, and there is no reinvestment issue from the coupons….

    JJ says:
    December 14, 2011 at 4:35 pm
    The Treasury Department sold $13 billion in 30-year bonds at a yield of 2.925%, the lowest level on record

    WOW mutual bond fund holders all know January is one of the bigest parial call/full call months of year. Rates that we thought were at a bottom look out. Muni bonds the most. Tons and Tons of 30 year muni bonds callable after ten years were issued between 2006 and 2002 at 5% coupons or great. Many were not called as we had higher rates in 2006-early 2008 and then market conditions for munis after Auction Rate collaspe and Whitney’s predictions made it a hostile market. Now 2012 we have huge demand for tax free munis from retail investors at a time or record low rates. Time to call all those 5% munis and reissue ten year 2.% munis and save 100% in interest. The towns and states will jump on this. Even if rates shoot up next year they pushed out the maturities and remember 2003,2004 and 2005 were low rates so those are ok. But muni yields will get crushed. Very Very few states issue long term non-callable munis most either mature in ten or are callable at ten. By the time January 2013 hits goodbye 5% tax free for years to come.

  147. chicagofinance says:

    Borat Obama….where are you?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYplvwBvGA4

  148. 30 year realtor says:

    Bergenfield, Dumont, Englewood, Bogota, North Arlington, Ridgefield Park, Elmwood Park, Garfield, Lodi, Wallington, Teaneck and Hackensack would represent the low end of the scale with 2 or 3 bedroom homes in average/good condition (clean and in need of updating) closed sales starting under $200,000.

    This list represents almost 20% of the towns in Bergen County. To find one of these homes requires a little patience and the ability to act quickly. As you can imagine a clean house in this price range sells fast.

  149. freedy says:

    If you buy a home in any of those towns make sure you either are taking spanish lessons or you can speak it

  150. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    And for those that are attending the unsanctioned NJRER Holiday GTG at Kilkenny House in Cranford tomorrow night, I will be a bit late. Have to drive D1 home from gymnastics first.

  151. Fabius Maximus says:

    At times we need to stop and bow down to the awsomeness that is Jon Stewart.
    http://gawker.com/5867902/jon-stewart-on-tlcs-disappointingly-terror+free-all-american-muslim

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