Which gets cut: Income taxes or property taxes?

From Bloomberg:

Christie Pushes Income-Tax Cut as Democrats Eye Property Levies

Governor Chris Christie told a group of business leaders that Democrats in the Legislature may jeopardize New Jersey’s economic recovery by putting social issues ahead of job-creation and tax cuts.

“They want to play around with social issues to try and make people look bad,” Christie said. “Here’s what the public is going to care about: Are they working? Are they working in a job that pays well and provides their family with health insurance?”

Christie’s remarks echoed his Jan. 17 State of the State speech to the Legislature and a subsequent series of public meetings in which he pressed his case for hastening what he calls “the Jersey comeback” by cutting taxes. The Washington- based Tax Foundation yesterday ranked New Jersey last among U.S. states in terms of business climate.

Assembly Majority Leader Louis Greenwald, a Cherry Hill Democrat, said his party is weighing “a couple of ideas” to lower pressure from New Jersey’s highest-in-the-nation property taxes. He declined to give specifics following Christie’s speech, while saying any relief would be both immediate and long-term.

Christie took office in 2010 pledging to cut taxes as the state’s economic conditions improved. He said his proposed reduction would spur the state’s economy, which he added should be the top issue in Trenton.

“Do they care about the stuff we’ve been talking about for the past week?” Christie said, referring to state residents. “What they care about is whether their husband or wife will have a job, will they have money to put food on the table?”

The governor has so far declined to say how he’d make up for the revenue if taxes are cut. Democrats have said a 10 percent rollback may mean as much as a $1.1 billion decline in state receipts.

“People care about civil rights, and they also care about the middle-class property tax relief and job creation plans this governor vetoed as he zealously protects and advocates for tax cuts for the rich,” Tom Hester, a spokesman for Assembly Speaker Sheila Oliver, said last night. “His priorities are so out of step with working class New Jersey.”

Oliver, a Democrat from East Orange, has said that an analysis by her office showed a family with a $50,000 annual income would pay $80 less in taxes under Christie’s plan, while someone earning $1 million would save $7,200.

This entry was posted in New Jersey Real Estate, Politics, Property Taxes. Bookmark the permalink.

280 Responses to Which gets cut: Income taxes or property taxes?

  1. grim says:

    Or neither?

  2. Confused in NJ says:

    True

  3. Confused in NJ says:

    Start today with a laugh:

    One morning the teacher announced: “Class, let’s begin by reviewing some American history. Who said ‘Give me Liberty, or give me Death’?”
    She saw a sea of blank faces, except for Little Hodiaki a bright foreign exchange student from Japan, who had his hand up: ‘Patrick Henry, 1775’, he said.
    ‘Very good!’ she said.
    Now who said, ‘Government of the People, by the People, for the People, shall
    not perish from the Earth?’
    Again, no response except from Little Hodiaki, ‘Abraham Lincoln, 1863’.
    ‘Excellent!’, said the teacher continuing, ‘let’s try one a bit more difficult…’
    Who said, ‘Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do
    for your country?’
    Once again, Hodiaki’s was the only hand in the air and he said:
    ‘John F. Kennedy, 1961’.
    The teacher snapped at the class, ‘Class, you should be ashamed of
    yourselves, Little Hodiaki isn’t from this country and he knows more about
    our history than you do.’
    She heard a loud whisper: ‘Screw the Japs,’
    ‘Who said that? I want to know right now!’ she angrily demanded.
    Little Hodiaki put his hand up, ‘General MacArthur, 1945.’
    At that point, a student in the back said, ‘I’m gonna puke.’
    The teacher glared around and asks, ‘All right! Now who said that!?’
    Again, Little Hodiaki said, ‘George Bush to the Japanese Prime Minister, 1991.’
    Now furious, another student yelled, ‘Oh yeah? Suck this!’
    Little Hodiaki jumped out of his chair waving his hand and shouted to the
    teacher, ‘Bill Clinton, to Monica Lewinsky, 1997!’
    Now with almost mob hysteria someone said, ‘You little shit. If you say
    anything else, I’ll kill you.’
    Little Hodiaki frantically yelled at the top of his voice, “Michael
    Jackson to the child witness testifying against him, 2004.’

    The teacher ran out of the classroom screaming.

  4. grim says:

    Another reason it’s in the banks/lenders best interest to delay foreclosures.

    Delay into 2013 and most ever strategic defaulter will start paying their mortgage again…

    From MarketWatch:

    Walking away from home to get more costly

    Although the 2007 law that allows taxpayers to exclude from income the amount of debt that is forgiven or cancelled by their lenders doesn’t expire until Dec. 31, it’s likely to take every bit of the next 11 months to persuade your bank to either foreclose or allow you to sell your house for less than it’s worth.

    While owners who are struggling to hold onto their homes shouldn’t decide to throw in the towel solely because of the pending tax bite, it is certainly something to consider.

    Under the tax code, borrowed money need not be reported as income because you have an obligation to repay. But if the lender subsequently cancels what you owe, the IRS requires that you report that debt as income because the duty to pay it back no longer exists.

    So, if you owe $250,000 and your lender forgives $50,000 of that debt in a $200,000 refinancing, that $50,000 is considered income. And if your combined federal and state marginal tax rate is 36%, you would owe $18,000 in taxes.

    Under the Mortgage Debt Relief Act of 2007, though, taxpayers are allowed to exclude from income the discharge of debt on their principal residence — at least until 2013.

    So, when your lender agrees to a short sale, there is no tax on the difference between the selling price and what you owe. When your lender forecloses, there is no tax on the cancelled debt. Even when you refinance at a lower loan balance, there is no tax on the difference between what you owed on the old loan and what you now owe on the new one.

    But these situations apply only through the end of this year. Unless Congress extends the law — and there is no indication lawmakers are even thinking about that right now — every kind of residential mortgage debt relief that takes place on or after Jan. 1, 2013 will once again be considered taxable income.

  5. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [1] grim,

    Ha, beat me to it.

  6. Bocephus says:

    3. One more reason that The cool kids will never teach.

  7. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  8. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [1] grim – Or neither?

    DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

  9. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [5] Nom – Ha, beat me to it.

    …and you beat me to telling grim he beat me to it.

  10. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [3] Confused – Should have ended like this:
    Now with almost mob hysteria someone said, ‘You little sh!t. If you say anything else, I’ll kill you.’
    Little Hodiaki frantically yelled at the top of his voice, “Hank Paulson to Ken Lewis trying to back out of the Merrill Lynch deal, 2008″

  11. Brian says:

    I heard on the radio this morning that Christie is also trying to reorganize the state’s university system. The commentator mentioned somehow the goal is to combat corruption waste and “no-show” jobs.

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/01/dramatic_restructuring_of_njs.html

    Article from 2006 when Christie investigated No-Show jobs at UMDNJ:
    http://blog.nj.com/ledgerarchives/2006/11/christie_investigates_alleged.html

    Finishing unfinished business?

  12. Mike says:

    Sorry but I can’t give this subject a rest : One Pissed off Canadian Housewife

    This is very good PLEASE read….

    Thought you might like to read this letter to the editor. Ever notice how some people just seem to know how to write a letter?

    This one surely does!

    This was written by a Canadian woman, but oh how it also applies to the U.S.A., U.K. and Australia .

    THIS ONE PACKS A FIRM PUNCH

    Written by a housewife in New Brunswick , to her local newspaper. This is one ticked off lady…

    “Are we fighting a war on terror or aren’t we? Was it or was it not, started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001 and have continually threatened to do so since?

    Were people from all over the world, not brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan , across the Potomac from the capitol of the USA and in a field in Pennsylvania ?

    Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn’t they?

    Do you think I care about four U. S. Marines urinating on some dead Taliban insurgents?

    And I’m supposed to care that a few Taliban were claiming to be tortured by a justice system of a nation they are fighting against in a brutal Insurgency.

    I’ll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East, start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere belief of which, is a crime punishable by beheading in Afghanistan .

    I’ll care when these thugs tell the world they are sorry for hacking off Nick Berg’s head, while Berg screamed through his gurgling slashed throat.

    I’ll care when the cowardly so-called insurgents in Afghanistan , come out and fight like men, instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in Mosques and behind women and children.

    I’ll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of Nirvana, care about the innocent children within range of their suicide Bombs.

    I’ll care when the Canadian media stops pretending that their freedom of Speech on stories, is more important than the lives of the soldiers on the ground or their families waiting at home, to hear about them when something happens.

    In the meantime, when I hear a story about a CANADIAN soldier roughing up an Insurgent terrorist to obtain information, know this:

    I don’t care.

    When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank:

    I don’t care. Shoot him again.

    When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and fed ‘special’ food, that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being ‘mishandled,’ you can absolutely believe, in your heart of hearts:

    I don’t care.

    And oh, by the way, I’ve noticed that sometimes it’s spelled ‘Koran’ and other times ‘Quran.’ Well, Jimmy Crack Corn you guessed it.

    I don’t care!!

    If you agree with this viewpoint, pass this on to all your E-mail Friends. Sooner or later, it’ll get to the people responsible for this ridiculous behavior!

    If you don’t agree, then by all means hit the delete button. Should you choose the latter, then please don’t complain when more atrocities committed by radical Muslims happen here in our great Country! And may I add:

    Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering, if during their life on earth, they made a difference in the world. But, the Soldiers don’t have that problem.

    I have another quote that I would like to share AND…I hope you forward All this.

    One last thought for the day:

    Only five defining forces have ever offered to die for you:

    1. Jesus Christ

    2. The British Soldier.

    3. The Canadian Soldier.

    4. The US Soldier, and

    5. The Australian Soldier

    One died for your soul, the other four, for you and your children’s Freedom.

    YOU MIGHT WANT TO PASS THIS ON, AS MANY SEEM TO FORGET!

    AMEN! GOD BLESS CANADA AND AMERICA .

  13. funnelcloud says:

    MIKE # 13

    HERE, HERE! Great Article Agree 1000%

  14. Barbara says:

    mike,
    We called those chain letters back in the day. If you don’t send it off to twelve people by 12pm tomorrow, something bad will happen to you. I get the sentiment but it’s pure Facebook spam and nothing more.

  15. Brian says:

    11 – Juice
    Bored housewives killed a similar project near me. Kicker is they cited environmental concerns when the goal was to alleviate traffic jams and reduce carbon emissions. The sheer time and effort they put in was amazing. They attended every meeting, placed signs up and down the road, constantly wrote letters to the editors of local newspapers and irritated local officials into compliance. They waged a continual PR war over the course of years. Obviously, they didn’t care one bit about the environmental concerns, they just were reaching for any excuse to kill the project. Typical NIMBY irrational BS.

  16. joyce says:

    (13)
    I would have hit the delete button.

    11-12 years and the ‘war’ is still going on

  17. AG says:

    War on terror is a fabricated farce. Follow the money not the Zionist propaganda.

  18. funnelcloud says:

    Barb #15

    Don’t get so angry about an opionion that “appears” to differ from your own, So whats your feeling on the subject? 9/11 never happened, Just like the holocaust, Did we deserve to be attacked? Like the war or not, our soldiers could have been home much sooner if they went over there, did their jobs and wiped out the enemy without having to worry about being crucified by the liberal media for what some consider excessive force.

  19. JJ says:

    Actually 9/11 never happened. The building was actually a hologram and the 3,000 people who disappeared were actually govt moles. They got married, had kids, went to pretend jobs at a non-existent tower. Then after 30 years in planning the “attack” happened, all were then put in witness protection and spouses paid millions to sign non disclosure agreements.

    I actually read this online somewhere, consipercy people are nuts

  20. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Oh Boy ” Zionist propaganda” that will stir things up.

  21. Mike says:

    Barbara 15 The difference between that letter and a chain is everything really did happen! Maybe you needed one of your sons or daughters to come back home in a body bag, or a relative getting their head sawed off alive to trulu understand.

  22. The Original NJ Expat says:

    I just registered the domain NJZionistReport.com

  23. seif says:

    Christie is the same guy that thinks jobs at Staples and Sports Authority are “middle class jobs.”

    GOV. CHRISTIE: Well, listen, this is a guy who has shown that the American free enterprise system can work and can work to create jobs across America. You look at places like Staples and Sports Authority, everybody who goes to work at those places today has Mitt Romney to thank for it. And he’s going to know how to do that as president, to get government out of the way, to be able to let the private sector create those jobs that we so desperately need and haven’t had in the Obama administration. That’s his greatest contribution to the conservative movement, to show that the American free enterprise system, which is under attack by the Obama administration, does work for people–for real people, middle class people. Because let me tell you, the people going to work at Sports Authority and Staples today, David, those aren’t the elite. Those are middle class Americans who are using those jobs to put food on the table and keep a roof over their heads and send their kids to college. Let the president attack that.

  24. AG says:

    19. War is a racket you moron. You aren’t really that stupid are you?

  25. AG says:

    Anyone stupid enough to volunteer for these ridiculous wars deserves the fate of social darwinism. Ask Henry kissenger what he thinks about war heroes.

  26. gary says:

    Property taxes will continue to be a way of life in the State of NJ until eternity. You may get a reassessment or an adjustment here and there but the astronomical and meteoric rise will continue unabated. Those that bought a house north of Interstate 195 between the years of 2003 and 2008 are truly f*cked. There is no other way to say it. By the year 2016, the price of the house will be a minor formality. Property taxes will become the primary discussion in negotiating real estate transactions.

  27. funnelcloud says:

    AG #25
    And you must be one of the liberal pigs that allows other people to go off to war fight and die so you can spew your venon and have your right to be an uninformed quasi scumbag jack-ass, It was a difference of opinion and like all other lib scum you have to attack when an opinion differs from your own. So F off and die if you want to get nasty,

  28. funnelcloud says:

    PS Everything is about money YOU MORON

  29. joyce says:

    22
    We obviously should have, in some way, went into Afghanistan and brought to justice the guilty parties. But Iraq (both times)… and all the other middle east and african nations? (and NATO/UN without the US is nothing, so when NATO invades, to me its the same as if just the US invaded) Vietnam, Korea, and all the other non-wars. And why are the troops still there, still in Germany since the 1940s? (yes I support Ron Paul) But to me it’s just common sense. Are we going to be in the Middle East until 2080?

  30. Bystander says:

    Mike,

    Queue the Toby Keith music. That “opinion” is ignorant on so many levels that it might qualify for top blog trash of the year. We all want the end of bogus wars. We all want the safe return of our troops. By our own estimates US forces have killed 90k – 120k innocent Iraqi civilians. Is that such a noble cause? Perhaps this is part of the problem with views such as your own.

  31. joyce says:

    29
    I think his point was don’t say, “they’re off fighting for our freedoms” when it is clearly about war profiteering. That sentiment about fighting for freedom might be a nice morale boost for the servicemen and women, but it’s not the truth.

  32. gary says:

    seif [24],

    I actually have to agree with you here. Calling these jobs good paying middle class jobs is laughable. I actually had a conversation about jobs last night with someone in their 50s, downsized a few years ago. Both her and her husband are working FOUR part time jobs to make ends meet. These jobs are low-paying mindless jobs with no benefits. This is the new definition of middle class.

  33. homeboken says:

    95 is a North/South highway. what do you mean here??

    Those that bought a house north of Interstate 195 between the years of 2003 and 2008 are truly f*cked.

  34. AG says:

    War mongering neocons are having a tough time selling their war mongering propaganda these days. You mad bro? People aren’t buying the bs anymore.

  35. joyce says:

    34

    195 is not I95

    195 runs east west… and I hate driving on that road

  36. BearsFan says:

    – it’s all about money, yes…specifically, it is all about ensuring that oil is settled in US dollars. The rest is all a lot of misguided patriotism. If it weren’t the case, Ron Paul wouldn’t have so much support from the troops. Why can’t someone be critical of the wars and still be patriotic? Why does that trigger a kneejerk “liberal” comment? What is more pro-soldier than bringing them home safe?

  37. gary says:

    homeboken

    Interstate 195, not 95.

  38. NJCoast says:

    In other news.

    http://www.ratebeer.com/RateBeerBest/bestbrewers_012012.asp

    #6 has only been brewing for 18 months! My daughter’s boyfriend is the brewer. I’ve tasted some unique beers he’s brought us.

  39. seif says:

    13 – how do i find that Australian soldier that “died for my soul.” I would love to thank him.

  40. funnelcloud says:

    No Joyce #32
    AG was being a non-civil jack-ass, hense my response, He and you are entitled to your opinions but so is everybody else, as long as we’re off on the subject, maybe its about money or oil but all the people that think we should not be over their would be the same ones that would complain or protest if gas were $6 gallon, or if they didn’t have oil to heat there home, They are the same environmentalist that will not allow us to harvest domestic product, they bitch about everything but don’t have any solutions. Point with AG is that he said our soldier’s basically deserve to die (refer to 26) and my best friends son has served 3 tours in Iraq and Afgan protect this jerks right to believe what he wants to believe, and yes They are fighting for your freedoms while performing their duty as American servicemen and women. Question Did You have any friends die on 9/11 my sister had several business associates die in the trade center.

  41. JJ says:

    New issues from Chryslers, tons for sale to retail. Wonder how many old folks will bite at an 8.2% yield when their 100K bank account is throwing off ten dollars a year interest income.

    CHRYSLER GROUP LLC / CG CO-ISS 8.25000% 06/15/2021SR SEC
    Price (Bid) 96.870
    Price (Ask) 98.268
    Yield to Worst (Ask) 8.519%

  42. Outofstater says:

    There are those who serve their country in uniform. There are those who do not. There are those who are grateful. There are those who are not. Typically, those who are ungrateful are also those who never served. It’s always been that way and always will.

  43. joyce (17)-

    Hear, hear. The purpose of the war on terror is to create maximum terror and despair within the Amerikan populace, while at the same time impoverishing it and feeding the machine that profits from perpetual war.

    Our real enemy is the Amerikan gubmint and its racketeering bureaucracy.

  44. funnelcloud says:

    Bearsfan 37
    The apparent knee jerk response was brought on by my Bro AG’s comment about being a moron for having a difference of opinion and by the fact that he basically said that our soldiers get what they deserve for being over there, Protest government not our troops for doing there job.

  45. Outofstater says:

    Feeling a little out of sorts this morning – son’s friend, a young Marine Lieutenant, just came home from Afghanistan missing a leg. One of his troops stepped on an IED and was blown to bits. The Lt continued to give orders to his men as he lay in the dirt. He was on an evac chopper within 30 minutes. He will continue to serve in the Marine Corps. People either understand or they don’t. It can’t really be explained.

  46. joyce says:

    41
    You make a lot of leaps. Clearly from my earlier comments, I do not think we should be over there. What gives us the right to invade other nations? Do the resources of the world belong to us? Yes, the domestic price of oil (and therefore gasoline) is subsidized through our taxes via military conquests. Let’s bring the troops home, cut some spending, perhaps the increased cost of gasoline will be offset. I am not an environmentalist. Let’s utilize our domestic oil, natural gas, and coal. Let people (privately) speculate and expirement with solar and others. Let’s build nuclear (I like Karl Denninger’s proposals on Thorium reactors).

    As BearsFan said above, why can’t someone be critical of the wars and not be labeled unpatriotic? I have not served, so I am not entitled to an opinion? My step father died when a drunk driver crashed into him… does that mean no one is allowed to debate with me unless they’ve shared a similar family tragedy? (fyi, I do not support the “checkpoints” and what I feel are harsh penalties when people are given DUI’s when they haven’t caused any harm… the lady who crashed into my step-father should be prosecuted of course for involuntary manslaughter or something to that effect, I do not know all of the different crimes by name).

    To answer your question, my only “ties” are that my brother is a Marine active in Kuwait (yes, Kuwait, why, I’m not sure… our empire is everything). I also had a friend (not best friends by any stretch) with a father who died in the towers on 9/11. But again, they are not over there fighting for our freedoms… it’s just not true no matter how many times it’s repeated.

  47. Juice says:

    re: “Are we going to be in the Middle East until 2080?”

    Wars in the Middle East are nothing. We haven’t really seen nothing yet, your grandchildren will really be squeezed in energy resources as we use up every last ounce of the black stuff here at home.

    History Rhymes folks. Just look at WWII. The Japanese invaded China and then we we the USA cut off their oil supplies. The Japanese then went and planned to invade Russia to get their oil. Russia discovered the plan and virtually annihilated the Japanese forces on their border with China and destroyed the invasion fleet of 500 Japanese fight planes and bombers. Hitler tried to take over over parts of middle east, and planned to invade specifically oil rich Iraq, and Iran. Hitler and the Japanese had eventually hoped to meet up in India, sealing their alliance and dominating the world by capturing a majority of it’s oil supplies.

  48. JJ says:

    so in other words no one in your family died in 9-11 or in the war so your opinion is not that important. The 9/11 widows I know for most part are not gung ho on the war. Nor are they at Mets and Jets games waiving banners on their stupid 9/11 sports day, A family member who is murdered there is never justice.

    for most part casual observers like you should not speak of that day ever. Although I was supposed to be in the tower that day, my sister barely made it out alive, my uncle died in the tower. The fact of the matter is I was not there and it did not personally effect me. My aunt and cousins it effected and my sister who went through grief counseling yes. In fact I did consulting work there at the companies that lost huge amounts of people. One girl told me those who watched from outside the tower were not there that day, those who got out quickly was not there that day. She said. There is a huge difference between watching and being there. She said after the first tower fell she got stuck in a pitch black staircase filled with smoke that stopped, not moving at all. That is being their, she got as far as payphone acrrose the street by Miami Subs bu BK and used a pay phone for some cover and tower fell, it went black, she felt the burns and debris and somehow she lived. That is being there, she said the rest of the people watching from two blocks away need to realize they were not there. They were watching. Thank God I was not there that day.

    funnelcloud says:
    January 27, 2012 at 10:16 am
    No Joyce #32
    AG was being a non-civil jack-ass, hense my response, He and you are entitled to your opinions but so is everybody else, as long as we’re off on the subject, maybe its about money or oil but all the people that think we should not be over their would be the same ones that would complain or protest if gas were $6 gallon, or if they didn’t have oil to heat there home, They are the same environmentalist that will not allow us to harvest domestic product, they bitch about everything but don’t have any solutions. Point with AG is that he said our soldier’s basically deserve to die (refer to 26) and my best friends son has served 3 tours in Iraq and Afgan protect this jerks right to believe what he wants to believe, and yes They are fighting for your freedoms while performing their duty as American servicemen and women. Question Did You have any friends die on 9/11 my sister had several business associates die in the trade center.

  49. JJ says:

    my biggest issue with drunk driving is any idiot who is sober who crashes into me I would get the blame. we need a drunk driving test so people like me with unique skills that allow them to drive drunk without any impact on my driving ability should be allowed my patriotic freedome to drive while consuming gods gifts of fine spirits.

    Seriously I have not driving dunk in 20 years. But between 17 and maybe 23 I would say I drove maybe 10,000 miles drunk and if felt good. Only issue I ever had is some idiot crashed into me and I was like now I am screwed, but luckily he was drunk too and took off. It is very risky the amount of bad sober drivers out on road at three am.

  50. Juice says:

    Not about money folks. It is about power.

    That old saying “HE WHO OWNS THE GOLD MAKES THE RULES”

    today is “HE WHO OWNS THE OIL MAKES THE RULES”

  51. funnelcloud says:

    So JJ
    All those people at the Mets and Jets game waiving their stupid banners in support of our troops are STUPID in your eyes because they had a difference of opinion from you. I’m sure several of those stupid people do have direct relations that were killed on 9/11 but I guess there opinions do not matter either since they differ from yours.

  52. Juice says:

    re # 49- I refer to Larry David for this one.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdSpwEpEnv4

    [Larry notices a picture on his rabbi’s desk]
    Larry: Is that you?
    Rabbi: That’s… that’s Eddie Solomon. My brother-in-law. He, ummm… he died on September 11th.
    Larry: Oh my gosh. Oh, I’m so sorry.
    Rabbi: Yeah. Terrible.
    Larry: He was in the building?
    Rabbi: No, no. He, he was… uptown on 57th Street. He got hit by a bike messenger.
    Larry: Uptown?
    Rabbi: Yeah, yeah. Bike messenger. Hit ’em.
    Larry: [Long pause] What a shame.

  53. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [37] Bears Fan – – it’s all about money, yes…specifically, it is all about ensuring that oil is settled in US dollars.

    Exactly. Most people can’t grasp this concept, but that is it exactly.

    1. Saddam Hussein wanted to price Oil in Euros.
    2. Gadaffi wanted to price Oil in gold.
    3. Iran wants to price Oil in gold. Watch what happens next. The Israelis will do it, but it will be at our behest.

  54. Juice says:

    re: # 49 – JJ – I met a 9/11 widow in a bar back in 2002. I could not bring myself to do it, since the memory of doing it with a 9/11 widow would still be haunting me today.

  55. This could be the weirdest thread ever at this blog.

  56. seif says:

    not sure if anyone was watching CNBC right. there is a women on from Century 21 and Simon Hobbs (the English bloke) said “in my country we pay 1-1.5% when we sell a home. why are people paying 5-6% here? what’s the reason? are you all owned by the same person? i don’t understand.”

    the woman danced around it and never gave an actual response to where the value is in paying so much.

  57. 3B says:

    #27 gary Speaking of property, I am considering throwing a bid in on the lsiting below, once I see it in person.

    http://www.njmls.com/listings/index.cfm?action=dsp.info&mlsnum=1203023&dayssince=&countysearch=false

  58. JJ says:

    First of all the Mets game in 2001 was back when we were still looking for bodies so who the heck had someone missing was at a Mets game, the Jets stupid think on 9/11/2011 was same day as actual 9/11 ceramony at WTC that the victims families went to. For most part just PR.

    funnelcloud says:
    January 27, 2012 at 10:42 am
    So JJ
    All those people at the Mets and Jets game waiving their stupid banners in support of our troops are STUPID in your eyes because they had a difference of opinion from you. I’m sure several of those stupid people do have direct relations that were killed on 9/11 but I guess there opinions do not matter either since they differ from yours.

  59. JJ says:

    I wish you did, I would love that story. But I see your point, once I went out with a girl who told me some god awful story she was recently raped and has not been with a man since. She wanted me to be her first post-rape man. Somehow I knew this would be some major emotional melt down for her and I would feel insanely creeped out by it. Needless to say I passed on this once in a lifetime opportunity.

    Juice says:
    January 27, 2012 at 10:44 am
    re: # 49 – JJ – I met a 9/11 widow in a bar back in 2002. I could not bring myself to do it, since the memory of doing it with a 9/11 widow would still be haunting me today

  60. All here have probably seen or heard this, but it’s fun to hear Stockman speak truth.

    http://vimeo.com/35369616

  61. Brian says:

    26.AG says:
    January 27, 2012 at 9:45 am
    Anyone stupid enough to volunteer for these ridiculous wars deserves the fate of social darwinism. Ask Henry kissenger what he thinks about war heroes.

    It’s one thing to voice your opinion of the motivation of politicians regarding war but, it’s entirely another to insult service men and women.

    You sir, are a douche.

  62. JJ says:

    Kissinger underwent basic training at Camp Croft in Spartanburg, South Carolina, where he was naturalized upon arrival. The Army sent him to study engineering at Lafayette College, Pennsylvania, but the program was cancelled, and Kissinger was reassigned to the 84th Infantry Division. There, he made the acquaintance of Fritz Kraemer, a fellow immigrant from Germany who despite the age difference, noted Kissinger’s fluency in German and his intellect, and arranged for him to be assigned to the military intelligence section of the division. Kissinger saw combat with the division, and volunteered for hazardous intelligence duties during the Battle of the Bulge.[8]

    During the American advance into Germany, Kissinger, only a private, was put in charge of the administration of the city of Krefeld, owing to a lack of German speakers on the division’s intelligence staff. Within eight days he had established a civilian administration.[9] Kissinger was then reassigned to the Counter Intelligence Corps, with the rank of Sergeant. He was given charge of a team in Hanover assigned to tracking down Gestapo officers and other saboteurs, for which he was awarded the Bronze Star.[10] In June 1945, Kissinger was made commandant of a CIC detachment in the Bergstrasse district of Hesse, with responsibility for de-Nazification of the district. Although he possessed absolute authority and powers of arrest, Kissinger took care to avoid abuses against the local population by his command.[11]

  63. gary says:

    3b [58],

    Get the last tax bill and then work it from there.

  64. Mike says:

    Everyone is entitled to post their opinion here, all I know is so many soldiers have lost their lives so we can continue to do that. Try starting up one of these blogs in another country and talk against the government and see what happens. Worse if your a woman you wil get stoned to death by your husband and his friends for talking back. “Love You Freedom Thank A Veteran”

  65. joyce says:

    Mike,
    This war in the middle east is not about protecting our rights to free speech. And your comment about not being able to do this in other countries; we are moving closer and closer towards that in the US. (patriot act, indefinite detention, indiana supreme court said that you do not have the right to resist unlawful entry… I was shocked when the supreme court said it was unconstitutional for cops to put GPS on car without a warrant… talk about a gimme, what was the possible argument that that could be legal) It’s all slipping away.

  66. JJ says:

    I never offer opinions, just facts.

  67. gary says:

    JJ,

    Here’s a fact:

    Giants – 31
    Patriots – 27

  68. Brian says:

    66. Joyce
    Agreed on both points. But I stand by my remark on post # 62. AG’s comments are way out of line.

    For me, Afganistan was all about avenging the deaths of those killed on 9/11 and bringing the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden to justice. I just wanted to see that gutless worm dead. I’d have rather seen us focus on that goal however, rather than engaging in this “nation building” business.

    I feel Iraq was a mistake. I do hope there is a positive outcome there but, I don’t think we had any business invading that country. That said, hindsight is 20/20. Most people were hysterical after 9/11 that another attack was iminent.

  69. 3B says:

    #64 gary: 9K a year.

  70. joyce says:

    69
    Brian,
    All valid points. However, I think it is a cop-out to say hindsight is 20/20. We invaded Iraq prior to 9/11 as well. We engaged in the Korean War over their personal border dispute, Vietnam because of the possible domino effect. The second Iraq invasion was because they had WMD (I can recall that Al Smith Dinner with GWBush joking about “they gotta be somewhere”). Now they want to invade Iran for the same reason, with bipartisan support. What’s going on here?

    And the positive outcome in Iraq is for us to leave immediately. Our continuing presence there cannot do any good for the common Iraqi citizen nor the common US citizen.

  71. gary says:

    3b,

    $750 per month in taxes and the house needs work. Get every active listing from the agent as well as recently sold and see where this house sits as far as price range is concerned. It’s a dime a dozen place and it’s not like you need it tomorrow. Find the range and work it from there. Like I said, it needs work so make an offer that you can live with and put a timeline on it. We’re not talking the difference between 900K and 700K so this one is easier to play.

  72. 3B says:

    #72 gary: Yeah it needs some work, but it does not appear to be anything major (from what I can see) Taxes at 9k are a bargain compared to the land of Unicorns where they would be around 12k or more.

    I would not pay more than 350k (and thats on the high side) I really think it is really worth in the 300K-325K range. I will get some comps and see, and then of course the realtor will not leave me alone. I will check zillow/trulia etc.

  73. Painhrtz - I ain't dead yet says:

    Grim moderated? Don’t know why

  74. Brian says:

    During the first Iraq war, I’m not sure it’s honest to say ‘we invaded’. I recall a UN-authorized coalition force (Led by the US) liberating Kuwait, then chasing the Iraqi ‘invaders’ back into Iraq.

  75. Painhrtz - I ain't dead yet says:

    No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels. Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of patriots.

    – Barbara Ehrenreich

  76. Barbara says:

    No one is fighting for your freedom. No one. For f@cks sake, stop it. Ugly truth.

  77. funnelcloud says:

    JJ #63 67
    here’s some facts also taken from wikipedia
    During WW2 50 to 70 million people died of which 40 to 52 million were civilians
    Military deaths were 22 to 25 million. So as your lengthy recitation leads up to one climactic statement. That being “Kissinger attempted to avoid abuses of the population under his command”, Inevitably he must of failed miserably as so many died. So what was the purpose of this statement and what was the point you were really trying to make?

  78. Barbara says:

    Understand when you’re being exploited, when your buttons are being pushed, when your best intentions are being used against you.

  79. chicagofinance says:

    Reporter: What are you doing for the latino community today?
    Mayor: I might have tacos tonight…..
    http://www.wpix.com/videobeta/c7142d48-0ff9-44ba-8fac-701272b56097/News/East-Haven-Mayor-I-Might-Have-Tacos-For-Dinner

  80. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Geez, I go away for a few hours (to Paterson, oh joy) and the place devolves into a food fight.

  81. Shore Guy says:

    Safety and security are good things; however, I am not willing to forfeit Constitutional Rights in some asserted effort to provide me, my family, and my community with some additional levels of security or safety from terrorists or other miscreants.

    It is important to realize that a determined adversary cannot be stopped from inflicting harm if that adversary is willing to die in the process. Notwithstanding the security that exists in Washington D.C., there are many, many ways that a terrorist could inflict devastating violence upon the White House or White House personnel, the Capitol, lawmakers, or their staff, or to other USG buildings or personnel. Lesser-protected institutions and infrastructure can also be hit by a determined terrorist.

    We could not surrender sufficient civil liberties to protect ourselves, and it is a fool’s errand to even try. We accept risk while driving, flying, and playing sports. it is time that we accept that there are bad people who will occasionally lash out at us and destroy things we hold dear, hurt and kill people, and cause other disruptions to our daily lives. We are fools of we allow that threat to cause us to perform collective constitutional immolation in a futile attempt to achieve perfect safety and security.

  82. scribe says:

    Talk about shutting the barn door

    But it does sound like a serious effort because the NY AG is involved, and he is/was a major factor in resisting the robo-signing settlement:

    New federal mortgage fraud task force subpoenas 11 banks
    by JON PRIOR

    Friday, January 27th, 2012, 10:53 am

    The new federal task force led by New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman sent subpoenas to the 11 largest financial institutions in the past few days as part of its investigation into possible residential mortgage-backed securities fraud.

    http://www.housingwire.com/2012/01/27/new-federal-mortgage-fraud-task-force-subpoenas-11-banks?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+housingwire%2FuOVI+%28HousingWire%29

  83. Brian says:

    77.Barbara says:
    January 27, 2012 at 12:06 pm
    No one is fighting for your freedom. No one. For f@cks sake, stop it. Ugly truth.

    That may be but the 18 year old kid that signs up for the marines with the most patriotic of intentions and is sent overseas into combat does not deserve AG’s comments.

  84. Shore Guy says:

    Scribe,

    I have met Schneiderman and he seems to be a decent guy. I hjave no doubt that he sees Cuomo as a presidential candidate in ’16 and he wants to position himself to become governor of NY shouls Cuomo win or get another cabinet post. AG to governor has become a well-worn path in NY.

  85. Barbara says:

    Brian,
    I wasn’t responding to any AG criticism specifically, just the mindless jingoism here today.

  86. Barbara says:

    I rent to a few of those 18 year olds. They are not signing up to fight for our freedoms, they are signing up for the college money and the tech training. I know this because it’s what they told me.

  87. Brian says:

    George Soros on the Coming U.S. Class War

    As anger rises, riots on the streets of American cities are inevitable. “Yes, yes, yes,” he says, almost gleefully. The response to the unrest could be more damaging than the violence itself. “It will be an excuse for cracking down and using strong-arm tactics to maintain law and order, which, carried to an extreme, could bring about a repressive political system, a society where individual liberty is much more constrained, which would be a break with the tradition of the United States.”

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/01/22/george-soros-on-the-coming-u-s-class-war.print.html

    I Hope George Soros is wrong about that but if he isn’t, it’s important that we are vigilant and resist any infringement on our personal freedoms.

  88. Painhrtz - I ain't dead yet says:

    and that is exactly what George Soros wants

  89. daddyo says:

    NJCoast 49

    In other news.

    http://www.ratebeer.com/RateBeerBest/bestbrewers_012012.asp

    #6 has only been brewing for 18 months! My daughter’s boyfriend is the brewer. I’ve tasted some unique beers he’s brought us.

    ———-

    It’s almost impossible to get Hill Farmstead. Only available in NYC, kegs kick in hours, and bottles are extremely rare.

    I was at the BlindTiger the day after they announced they had a keg, and it was already gone before I got there.

    NJ Beer distribution laws stink.

  90. JJ says:

    Giants have been to two superbowls since they started eating Long Island Pizza. Dont you guys make pizza in NJ>

    EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J.—It was a few Fridays ago now, after the Giants’ five-game win streak started but before this past weekend’s NFC Championship trip to San Francisco. Veteran offensive lineman David Diehl spied rookie Da’Rel Scott reaching for a slice of pizza in the Giants equipment room.

    Diehl asked Scott what he thought he was doing, Scott shot his hands up and then he said, “Wait, I always eat this.” Diehl’s response? “We’ve been winning,” Scott said, “so he let me stay.”

    For five seasons now, Fridays are pizza Fridays in the Giants equipment room, courtesy of Rich Salgado and Umberto’s Pizzeria and Restaurant on Long Island. It’s good pizza. It’s tradition. And it requires a little policing.

  91. Brian says:

    89 – Barbara

    I never was in the military but that’s why my father signed up for the marines in 1967 and was deployed to vietnam. He told me he wound up just trying to survive and to fight for he and they guy next to him to get home. He was a member of the “walking dead”. The 1st Battalion 9th marines. It’s tough to get details out of him about what happened there but I know he saw a lot of combat and was exposed to agent orange only to come home and be called a baby killer and denied employment.

    Despite this he never complains, just tells me small stories of what happened and taught me not to turn my frustrations inward or be destructive. Redivert that energy into something positive.

    He used funds from the GI bill to finish college and get a job.

  92. Barbara says:

    Brian,
    It’s perplexing how the horrors of war and it’s first and second hand experience is so often used to promote going into future wars without question complete with the mind games that only a sociopathic bully would use to get their way. I think it’s called cognitive dissonance, a serious misfiring of the human ego.

  93. joyce says:

    (75)
    Good points. You are 100% correct.
    I will just add my opinion (which I think is the lawful path) is that the US should never go to war because of some UN or NATO resolution.

  94. AG says:

    62,

    Brian,

    Tell me whats more insulting. My open criticism of legalized murder for profit or being conned into fighting a corporate war when you volunteered to fight for freedom.

    Yes. My family has 3 Vietnam vets in it. All of them will tell you that its complete BS.

    Expect another Gulf of Tonkin only this time in the Middle East. This is the wrong time in history to be naive. There is a big war coming.

  95. Brian says:

    95 – Barbara

    Are your comments directed at me? I by no means am promoting war.

    The subject of war evokes strong emotions and opinions in people. I only mean to share his experiences and what I learned from him so that these strong opinions are not directed in the wrong place like returning soldiers or their families. Returning combat hardened soldiers also sometimes direct their desperate feelings inward. We should come together to help them turn it into something positive. Not flame them online.

  96. 3B says:

    #72 gary: What would be you opening bid?

  97. Brian says:

    97 – AG

    I’m ready. I’ve stocked my basement with twinkies.

  98. Brian says:

    97 – AG

    It’s pretty clear what you said. You think soldiers should be darwinized into extinction.

    26.AG says:
    January 27, 2012 at 9:45 am
    Anyone stupid enough to volunteer for these ridiculous wars deserves the fate of social darwinism. Ask Henry kissenger what he thinks about war heroes.

  99. AG says:

    101,

    Brian,

    Thats exactly what the new world order is about. Dont be a fool with good intentions.

  100. JJ says:

    war is boring. people volunteer to go they take a chance, like skydiving, really none of my business. They should just really drop a neutron bond on the whole middle east and get this over with, as long as the oil is still usable why not. If we want to be nice lets keep all the hot girls under 30 alive and give them out as au pairs with benefits to people in the top 5% tax bracket as a bonus.

  101. JJ says:

    My family has a more positive view on war, we never fought in a war that ended in a tie. How uneventful. Maybe the 3 family members could go back and try and win it.

    Yes. My family has 3 Vietnam vets in it. All of them will tell you that its complete BS.

  102. Brian says:

    102 – AG

    It’s one thing to warn of it, it’s entirely another for you to wish it.

  103. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [103] JJ- They should just really drop a neutron bond on the whole middle east

    What would be the yield to worst?

  104. AG says:

    JJ,

    Your boys on Wall St helped finance Hitler. Why don’t you show your ancestors some respect?

  105. AG says:

    JJ would drop a bomb on the Middle East and be running like a Wall St punk when the Russians incinerate Manhatten. NATO thought they could have their way with the Russians 2 years ago with their proxy state Georgia in S. Ossetia. How did that turn out.

    I have to laugh at the tombstone courage Americans in general display with other mens blood.

  106. “This week 17-year-old British factory worker Stacey Irvine was rushed to the hospital when she collapsed, struggling to breathe. During the exam, doctors were stunned to learn that Ms. Irvine had never in her life eaten fruit or vegetables; instead she had eaten almost nothing but fast-food chicken nuggets since she was two years old.”

    —snip—

    “Aside from chicken and oil, those “stabilizers and preservatives” are said to include dimethylpolysiloxane, a form of silicone also used in cosmetics. Another additive is tertiary butylhydroquinone (TBHQ), a form of butane. According to one report, chicken is only about 50 percent of a McNugget; the remainder is a mixture of corn-derived ingredients, sugars and synthetic substances.”

    http://health.yahoo.net/experts/dayinhealth/chicken-nuggets-how-bad-are-they

  107. Nicholas says:

    26.AG says:
    January 27, 2012 at 9:45 am
    Anyone stupid enough to volunteer for these ridiculous wars deserves the fate of social darwinism. Ask Henry kissenger what he thinks about war heroes.

    I volunteered to defend this country in 2003 in the middle of a full-on war with Iraq. I was college educated already and held a good paying job. I reject AG’s stupidity and resist Barbra’s attempt to paint all military as self centered.

    I joined to defend my country regardless of how we got into the fight, who started it, or what resources it was over. It didn’t matter to me the genesis of the battle but rather that the battle was on and we are in it. I don’t encourage fighting and will do everything I can to avoid it but when fighting was inevitable I stepped up to the plate.

    Seems a little sad that you want to complain about how the war was started, if it was done peacefully or ethically, and what resources were being squabbled over ten plus years after they attacked. What really mattered was that the gauntlet was thrown down and the fight was on.

  108. Nicholas says:

    AG,

    Neutron bombs don’t exist so therefore JJ couldn’t drop it on the ME. Thus, it appears that you are in fact a troll. It may also indicate that JJ is a troll as well.

  109. JJ says:

    I would take out from the old Berlin Wall clear to Hawaii. Everyone in US who is unemployed, on welfare, has AIDs, Hep C, Herpes, in prision and over 65, on parole, etc. I would then start clean with a nice healthy population of working educated people. Oh yea the uge and fat people too and ladies with chicken necks and bug eyes and that girl from College with the stinky box.

    AG says:
    January 27, 2012 at 2:30 pm
    JJ would drop a bomb on the Middle East and be running like a Wall St punk when the Russians incinerate Manhatten. NATO thought they could have their way with the Russians 2 years ago with their proxy state Georgia in S. Ossetia. How did that turn out.

    I have to laugh at the tombstone courage Americans in general display with other mens blood.

  110. JJ says:

    I too volunteered to defend this country, I was in the Russian Bond Crisis, Long Term Capital Management, Y2K, Dotcom meltdown, 2008 Financial Crisis etc. Each time I came to rescue saving the world. Rest assured I will be here to save you next time too.
    We have a fixed income bubble brewing till 2014 and when big ben deflates I will be here to help once again.

  111. Mike says:

    Hanoi Barbara If nobody fought for your freedom how come you are not talking a foreign language here

  112. Nicholas says:

    http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key-issues/nuclear-weapons/basics/neutron-bomb.htm

    1980-1986 was the production timeline for bombs that held the “neutron bomb” title. Neutron Warheads never made it into production and it doesn’t look like they are much different than neuclear bombs for most practical purposes.

    I don’t rely on wikipedia for any but the most mundane of information. I usually follow it up with fact checking in the event that I actually have to rely on the data.

  113. 3B says:

    #06 Extraordinary call features exist!!

  114. 3B says:

    When are we getting back to real estate??

  115. Brian says:

    111 – Nicholas
    I think JJ was just injecting a little bit of humor into the conversation (Id love for them to send me one of the au-pairs but I don’t think my wife would direct her frustration into something positive. She’d probably just kill me). But yeah it’s pretty clear, AG is a knuclehead.

    I wouldn’t have wasted my breath (er keystrokes) but sometimes you really have to call people out when they’re being a douche.

  116. Brian says:

    anyway yeah housing and stuff.

  117. schabadoo says:

    And you must be one of the liberal pigs that allows other people to go off to war fight and die so you can spew your venon and have your right to be an uninformed quasi scumbag jack-ass, It was a difference of opinion and like all other lib scum you have to attack when an opinion differs from your own. So F off and die if you want to get nasty,

    Jamil’s back?

  118. gary says:

    3b [99],

    It depends. What’s the recent comps? What’s the recent sale price of similar homes? How long has this one been sitting? Is there any major issues or red flags with the place? Is it a quiet street or on a double yellow? Is it an estate sale? If an estate sale, pyschology comes into play. Either way, in this environment, there’s no harm in lowballing and then hammering from there. Throw as many body blows as you can and if you get them to meet your demands, then it’s a win. Again, this isn’t listed at 900K so anything you may settle on with the sellers is gonna be close. And at this price, if you plan to stay for years, it doesn’t really matter. It’s the big priced sh1t that needs to be scrutinized thoroughly. Whatever you offer, tell the realtor your terms and tell them you don’t want to hear the words, “other offers” or “another party interested” or you’re gone in a flash. Have a “take it or leave it” attitude.

  119. JJ says:

    Speaking of RE was on phone trying to set stuff up, saw some good REOs in Shelter Island, Hampton Bays, East Hampton, South Hampton on line. Thinking of going for a drive super bowl weekend. If I could pick up a little 3 bed 1.5 bath weekend house dirt cheap why not. There is one in east hampton at around 230K that looks like a bargain.

  120. 3B says:

    #22 gary Just came on the market. Willtry to get comps tomorrow. Not a double yellow, nice quiet street walking distance to town and train. The down stairs living area looks a little funky in the pictures, so I will have to check that out this weekend when I go to see it.

  121. 3B says:

    #22 gary: Oh and I have no problem bidding hard, and walking away; it is just four walls and a roof!!!

  122. JCer says:

    Hillstead farms, I was wondering what that was? I was drinking it in VT a few weeks ago, good stuff. #3 though Bells out of k-zoo MI, I think is overrated, I used to buy great lakes brewery beers from OH over Bells all the time when I lived in MI.

  123. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [93] JJ

    What’s the address of that pizzeria and is there a gas station nearby? And gary, bite me!

  124. Painhrtz - I ain't dead yet says:

    Nom you planning on holding up the joint or making sure Eli has another bout of gastro intestinal disease

  125. Bocephus says:

    When you are the biggest baddest muthf$cker on the planet you do wtf you want.

  126. JJ says:

    Comrade Nom Deplume says:
    January 27, 2012 at 3:33 pm
    [93] JJ

    What’s the address of that pizzeria and is there a gas station nearby? And gary, bite me!
    http://www.originalumbertos.com/home.php

    new hyde park and they deliver to Jersey

  127. joyce says:

    Nicholas,
    How can you say it doesn’t matter how fighting starts? (plus, I dont know how a war could start peacefully or ethically). It doesn’t bother you that the reason we invaded Iraq was completely fabricated?

    You said you decided to defend the country. Thank you. I sincerely mean that. But with respect to Iraq. How were you protecting anything over there? Did Iraq invade the US? Did Iraq bomb the US? Was Iraq about to? I think you would have been in a better position to protect yourself, your family, and your country if you were here at home.

    If you had done everything you could have to avoid fighting, you wouldn’t have gone thousands of miles away looking for a fight (that is more towards the govt/military leaders, not you). They decided to invade Iraq, they were looking for a fight… it was NOT inevitable, or necessary.

    (Afghanistan is a slightly different story)

    110.Nicholas says:
    January 27, 2012 at 2:35 pm
    26.AG says:
    January 27, 2012 at 9:45 am
    Anyone stupid enough to volunteer for these ridiculous wars deserves the fate of social darwinism. Ask Henry kissenger what he thinks about war heroes.

    I volunteered to defend this country in 2003 in the middle of a full-on war with Iraq. I was college educated already and held a good paying job. I reject AG’s stupidity and resist Barbra’s attempt to paint all military as self centered.

    I joined to defend my country regardless of how we got into the fight, who started it, or what resources it was over. It didn’t matter to me the genesis of the battle but rather that the battle was on and we are in it. I don’t encourage fighting and will do everything I can to avoid it but when fighting was inevitable I stepped up to the plate.

    Seems a little sad that you want to complain about how the war was started, if it was done peacefully or ethically, and what resources were being squabbled over ten plus years after they attacked. What really mattered was that the gauntlet was thrown down and the fight was on.

  128. JJ says:

    I thought we moved on to Giants, Pizza and Real Estate, we done with this war stuff yet?

  129. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [128] pain,

    1. Close. 2. Yes, if 1 ineffective.

    The star ledger had a piece on how we wanted the niners to win. They surmise we fear the giants. Not true. It’s just that the prospect of losing to a Noo Yawk team in a championship is so odious, so painful, that we would have preferred it be the niners. Then, if we lost, at least we wouldn’t have to hear from Noo Yawkers.

  130. Anon E. Moose says:

    JJ [130];

    Umberto’s (of New Hyde Park): I remember during the blackout (’03) these guys brought their trucks (H2 and Tahoe, I think) up onto the curb to light the store with their headlights. They had the coal-burning oven going and were doing a brisk (cash, nach) business.

  131. Brian says:

    Hey, is he threatening to blow up the place where the Giants get their lucky pizza?

    JJ- Quickly! Drop a neutron bond on him! This means war!

  132. SX says:

    This planet has two types of people. The thinkers and the dummies. The fighters and the frolicers. You either feel God’s prescence or you do not. You either do His will here on Earth and live a real life of honor, or not. And you know who the f*ck you are.

  133. Barbara says:

    110. Nicholas, I wasn’t implying that all military is self centered. I stated that they aren’t fighting for my freedom and for most, it’s about career and finances. I dont think that working for ones future is self centered. I’ll stand by that. Nice try, I don’t take bait.

  134. Barbara says:

    115.
    Just wow.

  135. Barbara says:

    Brian,
    Cognitive dissonance is a human wide problem. Your earlier post only provided an example.

  136. SX says:

    I love Babs and her wit btw. I don’t like the Hanoi shit either. I will say one thing to anyone who feels they are perfect. They are not. Judge not, lest ye be judged. And you will.

  137. Juice says:

    Meh, my connection for Super Bowl tickets just picked them up at the Meadowlands Stadium. End Zone 505 section mid-upper deck and wants $2400 each. Right now I can get the same upper level at the 50 yard line for that price. I told him to go scratch. I will wait till the desperate want to sell by weeks end and put in a bid of $1700. There are allot of tickets for sale FYI.

  138. funnelcloud says:

    Shabadoo #121
    Jamils not back, That was a rebuttle to a comment that basically fired up this whole discussion, Mike expressed an opinion this morning #13, and I agree’d , a couple of individuals jumped in (#15, #18) expressing an apposing opinion, It may have remained a civil discussion if knucklehead AG didn’t put his 2 cents in (refer to #25 #26) first attacking me personally for expressing my opinion, then saying our soldiers deserve to die if they were stupid enough to serve our country and go to war, After that the gloves came off and it got nasty. Thats todays discussion in a nutshell.

  139. SX says:

    AG’s said that stuff before. He hates the government and feels a genuine mistrust of any government action or representatives. What he forgets is that the governments is made up of people. People a lot like……us.

  140. Brian says:

    Barbara – are those kids in your rental in the military or something?

  141. SX says:

    Only been to one Superbowl Cowboy’s VS Steelers 94 I think. Saw Seal in the VIP section. Elway’s last big win I believe. Doobie Brothers played halftime. Best part, bumping into my former roomate/rugby buddy from school. Totally random. Partied my ballz off. Had a blast. Game. Meh.

  142. Confused in NJ says:

    Good we started with a joke today, as the conversations got pretty heavy.

  143. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Is Lee Greenwood doing “I’m Proud to Be An American” at this years Super Bowl?

  144. NJToast says:

    I have often wondered if military service were required for a minimum of 2 years after high school for every one if as a nation, we would be as quick to go to war. Having spent plenty of time at military hospitals it is very sad to see the impact of war. I wonder how society would respond if the kids from places like Ridgewood, Summit and Short Hills came back for rehab at places like Walter Reed missing a couple of limbs.

    For some kids, military service may be the only option. Perhaps they need a job, money for college, are not college material or looking to develop other skills.

    Freedom isn’t free.

    And AG, your comments are offensive. Perhaps you should Google a company called Halliburton, and save your hate speech for one of the web sites geared toward that type of thing.

  145. relo says:

    That’s it, folks. Have some otherwise intelligent, free-minded individuals turn on each other. Misssion accomplished. Who’s up for some religion?

  146. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Good news!!!!!!!!

    “AG Holder ‘Bound and Determined’ For Justice In Residential Mortgage Securities Market”

    http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2012/01/ag-holder-bound-and-determined-for-justice-in-residential-mortgage-securities-market.html

  147. funnelcloud says:

    Barbara 139
    Cognative Dissonance??? Yea i know what it means
    All day long you’ve been injecting your phsudo intellectual digs and Freudian based phsycobabble into the conversation without really saying anything on the subject matter, Stop with the condesending passive agressive Haight Ashbury bullsh*t. Just like AG all you’ve been doing is insulting people like mike/brian/myself (be it with big fancy words) for having an opinion that differs from your own. You wanna write a thesis on your Utopia, Your beliefs your opinion, Go ahead spew away. In keeping with your cynical writing methodology I will close this by saying “don’t worry,, your going to be alright, nothing a little medication and some rest won’t take care of my dear”

  148. Jill says:

    JJ #49: That is the best thing you have ever written…and the best commentary on 9/11 that I have ever seen. I’ve tried to explain this to people in the past and never quite succeeded, but you knocked it out of the park. Thanks.

  149. HE (147)-

    Stop it, or I will hunt you down like a sick, rabid dog.

    “Is Lee Greenwood doing “I’m Proud to Be An American” at this years Super Bowl?”

  150. And I will raise you one Bay City Rollers, sir.

  151. SX says:

    NEW HAVEN, Conn.) — A Connecticut man was sentenced Friday to die for killing a woman and her two daughters during a night of terror in their suburban home, a gruesome crime that unsettled the suburbs and halted momentum to abolish the death penalty in the state.

    Joshua Komisarjevsky, 31, spoke in court and blamed his accomplice for much of the crime but spoke of regrets and the devastating consequences of his decisions. He said he has family and supporters who don’t want him to die. (See the Top 10 Crime Stories of 2011.)

    Komisarjevsky joins the accomplice, Steven Hayes, and nine other men on Connecticut’s death row. The state’s last execution in 2005 was the first since 1960, and Komisarjevsky will likely spend years, if not decades, in prison.

    The two paroled burglars tormented a family of four in the affluent New Haven suburb of Cheshire before killing Jennifer Hawke-Petit and leaving her daughters, 17-year-old Hayley and 11-year-old Michaela, to die in a fire.

    The only survivor, Dr. William Petit, was beaten with a baseball bat and tied up but escaped.

    Hayes was convicted in 2010 of raping and strangling Hawke-Petit and killing the girls. The girls were tied to their beds and doused in gasoline before the house was set ablaze; they died of smoke inhalation. Komisarjevsky was convicted of the killings and of sexually assaulting Michaela.

    Petit called the crime a “personal holocaust” as he testified during the sentencing hearing. He said he wife was his friend and confidant, and a wonderful mother. He also noted that Hayley would be in medical school by now and that Michaela loved to cook and sing. “I lost my family and my home,” he said. “They were three special people. Your children are your jewels.”

    Earlier, Jennifer’s sister, Cynthia Hawke-Renn, said via video played in court that everyday items like gas, rope, bed posts and gas conjure horrific memories. “There is no escaping the horrors of that night,” she said.

    The sentencing, which was earlier recommended by a jury, concluded two long trials that subjected jurors to grim evidence including charred beds, rope used to tie up the family and autopsy photos. The 2007 attack led to the defeat of a bill to outlaw the death penalty in Connecticut and sparked tougher state laws for repeat offenders and home invasions.

    In arguing for a life sentence, his lawyers said he was repeatedly sexually abused as a child by his foster brother and he never got proper psychological help as his problems worsened. He suffered from a mood disorder since he was about 9 that included bouts of profound depression, according to a defense psychiatrist.

    Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2105583,00.html#ixzz1khWAWPMw

  152. Barbara says:

    151. You forgot wimmens lib, secular humanism, socialist. Don’t let it happen again. today was lime a time warp back to 1995 and the undernet.

  153. Jill says:

    3b #58: Looking for an address on that one. If it’s located where the pinpoint is on the Trulia map, it’s right on Piermont Avenue — a main drag…and not close to town or transit. This one looks like a better bet, if you can get through the short sale red tape:

    http://www.trulia.com/property/map/3063719861-267-Liberty-Ave-Hillsdale-NJ-07642

  154. schabadoo says:

    After that the gloves came off and it got nasty.

    Yeah, I don’t remember Jamil going with the’ F’off and die routine’. And it was early, hard to blame booze for it.

    The whole America-hating liberal scum angle was right up his alley…

  155. Mike says:

    Funnel unfortunately I’m not a good writer but you are! Thanks for your help. Guess I should post this subject on another blog next time :(

  156. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Funnel 151 Talk about throwing down the gauntlet. Smelt the tone of the thread today coming at post 21.

  157. “I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country.”

    -Gen. George Patton.

  158. SX says:

    I would piss on the corpses too btw. Bastards.

  159. Jill says:

    Grim: #163 is in mod.

  160. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Mike 159 Nah this whole thing has been done here before. Somewhat different players but very similar differences of opinion. I am sitting this one out.

  161. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Meat 161 Yeah! You know he said “and then pissing on them” but they changed the quote. Only kidding folks.

  162. SX says:

    I’d say them getting pissed upon is the least of their problems.

  163. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Sx that was my position when this whole pissing thing came up.

  164. Juice Box says:

    Grim one of your neighbors died in his home over 13 months ago and was just found.

    “Mail piled up for some time at his 99 Black Oak Ridge Road home, but Postal Service officials could not explain Thursday why the unclaimed bundles didn’t raise red flags.

    The town mowed his lawn when neighbors complained, not realizing that Domsky was lying dead inside. An investor bought a lien on his house and kept up utility and tax payments, so the township never was troubled by unpaid bills.

    A neighbor, Frances Cook, noticed that for some time she hadn’t seen him walk by in the morning while she waited for her daughter’s school bus. “I didn’t do anything at first, but then it started to bother me more.”

    She asked police on Jan. 20 to check on him.

    Police judge from the dates of the most current mail and newspapers in the house that Domsky died in December 2010. He would have been 80 last August.”

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/138183819_Reclusive_man_had_been_dead_in_his_home_for_a_year.html

  165. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Dare I say “lighten up Francis” to all. Link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OnpkDWbeJs have a laugh, I think it may be needed.

  166. Juice Box says:

    For anyone that knew Wayne.

    Hoboken

    Hobson’s Choice, a neighborhood bar that became a downtown landmark, will close for good Sunday after 15 years in business.

    http://hoboken.patch.com/articles/hobson-s-choice-to-close-for-good-on-sunday

  167. chicagofinance says:

    Why is it as soon as Hitler is mentioned Essex shows up? It’s like sh!t and flies on a summer day……

    AG says:
    January 27, 2012 at 2:25 pm
    JJ, Your boys on Wall St helped finance Hitler. Why don’t you show your ancestors some respect?

  168. Juice Box says:

    Here is a “documentary” on Al’s subject of the day.

    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/ethos/

    Al, reach deep down I know somewhere in your genes there is a sane man who can debate without blurting out……you know just blurting with no context.

  169. SX says:

    171. I kinda think joking about Hitler is in the same vein as the 9/11 post JJ made (eloquently)– my grandparents made it out in ’39. They left behind a factory on the black sea that was the leading bean processor for Prussia which the German army quickly commandeered. Their 3-story home complete with tennis court was also taking by the local commandant. Their parents stayed and met a fate on some box car helped along with pills. And my grandparents went on to raise two kids on a modest income. One of which was part of Wharton’s first batch of MBAs. The other was my mom. My history with anti-semetic remarks is usually very quick and quite painful for the party involved in such humor. It invokes a rage that you simply do not want to encounter even on your best day chifi. Trust me.

  170. Juice Box says:

    Re: 173 – You make Clot and Al seem civilized..I know you professed change here so take it easy already the goose steppers are all dead.

  171. Punch My Ticket says:

    SX [173],

    Baltic perhaps?

  172. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Lotsa people off their meds today.

  173. joyce says:

    143
    SX

    The sociopaths in the govt are nothing like me. There are two kinds of people in this world, those who want power and those who want freedom. Power is the antithesis of freedom. Power means the ability to control others. The govt cannot do anything before they use exert their control and use force upon another.

  174. SX says:

    Imagine if you will simply being ‘outlawed’ one day by your government. That is what the nazis did overnight to the Jews. Amazing some find humor in that.

  175. SX says:

    174. I’ve never seen this as a competition. Sometimes I think Clot plays the part a bit. He and I have spoken before and he seems very sane and well adjusted. Al I cannot comment on. Me, I can go either way. You could meet me sometime and think “wow what a nice guy” and all the while if you happen to cross that line, I can make you very uncomfortable, very, very quickly.

  176. joyce says:

    178
    Well, it didn’t happen to you. It happened to your family a couple generations ago. It was a terrible, atrocious, and unspeakable thing.

    I don’t take an humor regarding slavery in this country either… but can a 30 year old black person give me a hard time because his great great great grandparents were slaves.

  177. Shore Guy says:

    “They should just really drop a neutron bond on the whole middle east”

    Is the neutron bond a new product from Goldman?

  178. Shadow of John says:

    The neurton bond is most effective against limos with crush velour and a drunken kennedy inthe back seat with bimbo. You nancy boys probably didnt know that.

  179. freedy says:

    This is no longer a Real Estate Blog ,

  180. Shore Guy says:

    Freedy,

    Take a look at the top line of the blog header: ” New Jersey Real Estate Report —
    Real Estate, Economics, and Politics.”

    These three issues are intertwined.

  181. Juice Box says:

    Re:179 -EX – think of us here on this place in cyberspace as survivors. Then think about the future, perhaps you will then calm the f down and contribute. Veiled threats really? Give us you opinion not a knuckle sandwich already….

  182. mikey (167)-

    Pissing on a Taliban would probably make the guy smell better. These people aren’t big on personal hygiene.

  183. Fabius Maximus says:

    #19 funnel

    Lots of dumb posting in here today and you seem to be leading the pack. Regardless of AGs motives, your response of liberal pigs/ scum is not called for. Barbara’s post is spot on, that post just needed a “only true patriots will post this, as their status for the next hour”

    For the Mets and the Jets fans, that is again on the money. I was at the WS game where Shrub threw out the first pitch. My overriding memory was of the people draped in flags and T-shirts outside the stadium b1tching about the delay to get in because of the metal detectors. My one big nod to Shrub, big moment, big pressure, but he threw straight over the plate and hit the glove.

    JJ, I think you are wrong about, “only people in the towers were there”. Everyone has a different story and a lot of people were in that dust cloud as the towers came down. For those outside the few block radius, they all have their stories, from plane 2 flying past the windows to fleeing over the Brooklyn Bridge or on a fishing boat out of Battery Park and outside of that the stories go on. Everyone has a story from that day. There is always who I knew or what I heard, but the posts today, outside of Nicholas (thank you for your volunteering and thank your for your service), i have seen no-one in here put up more than a pair of deuces and if you want to play that card game, you better be holding a good hand.

    One thing no one mentioned in this thread is that today is Holocaust Memorial Day, for me that would have been a better focus instead of all the Jingoistic BS.

    I nominate Juice with Larry David quote as post of the day.

  184. SX says:

    Let’s put it this way. A few years ago people online were shouting Depression. I thought….”no way”. Now. Hell if I think maybe they weren’t so crazy. All I know is that government is one potent machine. We are a great nation. I love this place. It makes me nuts to have to live up here with all you northern a@@holes. I’m sorry but that’s just how I feel. This has got to be the most miserable freakin’ craphole in the country. Contribute? Yeah. Sure.

  185. BearsFan says:

    “I joined to defend my country regardless of how we got into the fight, who started it, or what resources it was over. It didn’t matter to me the genesis of the battle but rather that the battle was on and we are in it. I don’t encourage fighting and will do everything I can to avoid it but when fighting was inevitable I stepped up to the plate.

    Seems a little sad that you want to complain about how the war was started, if it was done peacefully or ethically, and what resources were being squabbled over ten plus years after they attacked. What really mattered was that the gauntlet was thrown down and the fight was on.”

    – Nicholas, thank you for your service. I can relate to the crux of what you are saying. To make an analogy, I ran/run with a group of friends who tend to throw punches first/ask questions later, and I think most of us can appreciate the concept of jumping into a fight if you see one of your own in it. It’s definitely an american quality imo. But this is where the analogy ends, cuz in my bad analogy, no one dies.

    In the same vein, consider this…that sense of duty, commitment and righteousness that you displayed in volunteering to defend your country….understand that this same level of duty and commitment runs in others who oppose the war and want the troops home asap. Speaking out against it in 2005 was not an easy thing to do, and I was called “unpatriotic” by many friends, when the whole while, I believed I was the only one showing any patriotism. My loyalty lies with the soldiers, not with the flag, if that makes any sense. I don’t think about the “greater good”, I think about the mom or dad who loses a kid.

    Your courage is extremely admirable, and your sense of loyalty strong…but I think ignoring how/why the fight started is a bit intellectually dishonest and scary. It suggests a confidence in our leaders’ discretion that is glorified in american culture, but the reality is, that confidence should no longer exist. I also am sometimes confused why those who champion a reserved approach to the use of force are associated with being liberal, when that would appear to me to be a conservative trait?

    FTR, I have never served, just family members. I was walking out of the south tower when the north tower got hit that day. I worked at 1 CMP. I do not agree with the words AG used (he could have been more respectful perhaps), but at the same time, I’d be lying to you if I told you that I’d tell my imaginary 18 year old son “go for it, serve your country” if he came to me tomorrow and said he was signing up. The “why” has never been more important, and means everything to me.

  186. chicagofinance says:

    Glad your grandparents made it out alive. None of my family did. That means one less than one. I’ll do the math for you ….ZERO. My grandfather was alone here and was going to go home when the family told him not to come. All the money and everything gone….

    “We are a great nation. I love this place. It makes me nuts to have to live up here with all you northern a@@holes. I’m sorry but that’s just how I feel.”
    Hmmmm…a bit too close to Hymietown for you….can’t get away with the crap they pulled in Deutschland eh? Just say it…..

    I am half Jew / half Gypsy…..basically genetic garbage in your book….

    SX says:
    January 27, 2012 at 8:40 pm
    171. I kinda think joking about Hitler is in the same vein as the 9/11 post JJ made (eloquently)– my grandparents made it out in ’39. They left behind a factory on the black sea that was the leading bean processor for Prussia which the German army quickly commandeered. Their 3-story home complete with tennis court was also taking by the local commandant. Their parents stayed and met a fate on some box car helped along with pills. And my grandparents went on to raise two kids on a modest income. One of which was part of Wharton’s first batch of MBAs. The other was my mom. My history with anti-semetic remarks is usually very quick and quite painful for the party involved in such humor. It invokes a rage that you simply do not want to encounter even on your best day chifi. Trust me.

  187. chicagofinance says:

    WSJ
    THE WEEKEND INTERVIEW
    JANUARY 28, 2012
    Christie to the 1%: Please Occupy New Jersey

    Now that the governor has controlled state spending, he’s pushing tax reform and hoping to steal businesses and residents from neighboring blue states

    By JAMES FREEMAN

    Garden State Gov. Chris Christie has a message for the top 1% of income earners: Please occupy New Jersey. “I’m going to start going after a lot of these hedge-fund guys who are in Connecticut and New York and say, ‘You’re going to get a better deal with us,'” says the country’s most important Republican not running for president.

    Mr. Christie’s new tax-reform plan also offers an improved deal to the bottom 99%, which is why he may be able to move it through New Jersey’s Democratic legislature: a 10% cut in tax rates across the board.

    The governor is two years into a four-year term. In 2010, he told the Journal’s editorial board that the Garden State represented America’s best example of a “failed experiment” in rising taxes and bigger government. As he returns to the Journal for another visit, it’s time to check the results of his counter-experiment.

    Politically, so far so good. A recent Quinnipiac poll gives him a 53% approval rating among the state’s registered voters, and Mr. Christie says that private polls show him “in the low 60s.”

    Economically, unemployment in the state has fallen to 9% from a high of 9.8%. With almost 3.9 million people working, New Jersey has added almost 60,000 private-sector jobs since he took office, while shedding more than 21,000 government jobs. Reforms of the pension and health programs for government employees will save taxpayers an estimated $120 billion over the next 30 years. A new limit on local property-tax increases appears to be working.

    Mr. Christie says that he can now push for the tax cuts that he promised would happen if the state controlled its spending. The governor made that promise while seeking the job in 2009, and he recalls the skepticism at various newspapers during the campaign: “They looked at me like I was an alien.” Because many media folk couldn’t believe the state government could afford to reduce tax rates, “They just basically accused me of lying to get elected.”

    Now he reports that the state has been running modest surpluses for a very simple reason. He requires the commissioners of all departments to report each month on how they are meeting budgeted spending levels.

    “What happened before in state government was that they would just spend, and then in April they would come to the governor’s office and say, ‘Oh, oops. Sorry, we need another 30 million. We need another 50 million.’ And there would be a huge number of supplemental spending bills that would get passed on June 30th along with the budget for the next fiscal year,” often with tax hikes to pay for them, says Mr. Christie. “And I said to my folks, ‘If you don’t manage to budget, you’re going to get fired.'”

    Mr. Christie proposes to phase in his tax cut over three years. If the state’s economy continues to rebound and state revenues grow, he says he’ll look to make even deeper rate cuts.

    Having spent his first two years playing defense against unsustainable spending, Mr. Christie is eager to start competing with neighboring states for jobs, talent and capital. Step one was to decide which tax reform would be the biggest draw for new residents and new businesses. He chose to attack the income tax because “that will be the thing that will make us the most competitive from a jobs perspective.” His decision was made easier when he saw neighboring New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo push through an income-tax increase in December.

    “When Governor Cuomo raised taxes over here that made it even more attractive for me to go after the income tax . . . from a competitive perspective.” He adds that with Gov. Dannel Malloy also enacting a tax increase in Connecticut last year, “it’s a strategic decision as much as a philosophical decision.”

    New Jersey has a long way to go. This week the Tax Foundation again rated it dead last among the 50 states for its overall business tax climate. As for individual income taxes, Mr. Christie notes that since 2003 the top marginal rate has risen to 8.9% from 6.25%. If Mr. Christie succeeds in knocking that top rate down to a flat 8%, Jersey will still be above Connecticut’s 6.7%. But since Connecticut now edges New Jersey for the country’s highest property taxes, according to the Tax Foundation, the Garden State is at least in the ball game.

    As for New York, now that Gov. Cuomo has bumped the top rate up to 8.82%, some Empire Staters may be tempted to cross the Hudson, especially if they live in New York City and now face a staggering combined state and local income tax rate of 12.7%.

    To be sure, even a reformed top rate of 8% in New Jersey would still be extremely high and won’t necessarily keep residents from fleeing to Pennsylvania’s 3% rate or to Florida, where there’s no state income tax at all. But Mr. Christie is still catching flak for his baby step toward tax reform.

    “We have an incredibly progressive income tax rate system and so when I’m getting push-back now about a 10% cut across the board and people arguing, ‘Well it disproportionately benefits people who make more money,’ I’m like, ‘Well of course, because you made the decision to have an extraordinarily progressive tax code where the top 1% in New Jersey pays 41% of the income tax. So those are the folks who are going to get a large share of the . . . cut.’ But everybody’s getting a 10% cut.”

    Mr. Christie’s plan also includes a boost in the so-called earned income tax credit—a “tax cut” even for people who don’t pay income taxes. Because this credit is refundable, at the lowest income levels it functions as a wealth transfer from citizens who pay income taxes. “It’s to get Democratic votes,” he concedes, but “given how challenged some of the families are on the lower end of our income scale and how expensive it still is to live in New Jersey . . . I don’t have a problem with it.”

    And for those at the upper end of the income scale, Mr. Christie is setting a different course from the man he has endorsed for president, Mitt Romney. While Mr. Romney has taken pains to ensure that his own tax plan offers little relief to wealthy citizens like himself, Mr. Christie argues that his state can’t afford to drive away successful people. Perhaps Mr. Romney should take note of Mr. Christie’s unapologetic case for sound tax policy—and his approval ratings.

    As for Mr. Christie’s plan, since he is already being criticized for allowing the wealthy to benefit along with everybody else, why not go ahead and push for the most competitive reform—a low-rate flat tax?

    “I couldn’t get it passed. I mean I’ve made the political evaluation that with solid Democratic majorities in the legislature, they would just never pass a flat tax. And so, you know, I could go through the show of proposing it, having it go nowhere and then trying to retrench and get something else. I’d rather put all my eggs in the basket of what I think I can get and I think I can get this.”

    Some may wonder how he can get anything after a political redistricting plan last year favored Democrats, who then went on to maintain their legislative majorities in the fall elections. One answer is that the governor of New Jersey holds significant powers, including the ability to impose salary terms if state-employee unions won’t agree to contracts. As old contracts expire, he’s been negotiating aggressively. Mr. Christie says he’s been helped by his earlier success in reining in the cost of benefits and has lately come to terms with two unions on new contracts. They provide no salary increases for the next two years and modest hikes after that.

    “They would never have accepted that except for the fact that we’ve gotten through to them that they are a weight on growth, that they are being unfairly compensated, that they are not part of the shared sacrifice, and that the alternative is continued layoffs and reduction by attrition,” he says. Mr. Christie still hasn’t cut a deal with the state’s largest government-employee union, the Communications Workers of America, but says “I can guarantee you this: They will not get a better agreement than the guys that already signed.”

    The savings from these agreements can ultimately translate into lower burdens on taxpayers, and so can Mr. Christie’s ability to fill two new vacancies on the state’s seven-member supreme court. For years, the infamous Abbott decisions have had the courts essentially adopting the role of legislators and dictating how much taxpayers must spend on various school districts.

    This week Mr. Christie nominated Assistant State Attorney General Philip Kwon and Chatham, N.J., Mayor Bruce Harris to fill the seats. It’s unclear what they think about Abbott, and Mr. Christie says he didn’t ask them about specific legal issues. But the governor clearly believes that the court has been seizing powers that belong to the legislature and the executive branch.

    “There’s going to come a point where the other two branches are going to say, ‘Uncle.’ Just going to say, ‘Enough. Can’t take it.’ I can’t predict when that will be. I hope we don’t come to that day because it would be an awful thing for our system to have the executive and legislative branches just defy the judicial branch. But their decisions historically have been so outrageous.”

    Mr. Christie says that he doesn’t favor defying the judiciary but adds, “I need to change the composition of the court and I intend to.”

    But is he fundamentally changing the political culture of New Jersey? This week’s reaction to his tax reform suggests that he is. Democrats largely responded with their own plans to cut taxes, focused on local property bills.

    Still, the governor isn’t declaring mission accomplished. “I don’t want to sit here and take bows two years in, saying I’ve changed it,” he says. “I think I’m making progress toward opening people’s eyes and opening their ears to listening to a different approach. And all the Armageddon that the Democrats predicted when I had to do the things I had to do in the first two years, people are waking up this morning going, ‘Hmm. Yeah, the sun’s still shining. My kids are still going to school. My neighbor’s got a job. He didn’t have a job before. Maybe this guy knows something. Maybe it’s working.'”

    Mr. Freeman is assistant editor of the Journal’s editorial page.

  188. SX says:

    191. No, it’s just an overpriced, overcrowded shithole filled with bloated egos and too many people.

  189. SX says:

    191. You forgot to add the 1/4 banker and that in my book simply makes you part of the problem.

  190. Confused in NJ says:

    178.SX says:
    January 27, 2012 at 9:30 pm
    Imagine if you will simply being ‘outlawed’ one day by your government. That is what the nazis did overnight to the Jews. Amazing some find humor in that

    The same seems to be true in most muslim countries, yet is ignored. They rarely tolerate non muslims.

  191. Confused in NJ says:

    The Armenian Genocide[1][2]—also known as the Armenian Holocaust, the Armenian Massacres and, by Armenians, as the Great Crime[3]—was the systematic destruction of the Armenian population of the Ottoman Empire during and just after World War I.[4] It was implemented through wholesale massacres and deportations, with the deportations consisting of forced marches under conditions designed to lead to the death of the deportees. The total number of resulting Armenian deaths is generally held to have been between 1 million and 1.5 million.[5][6][7][8][9] Other ethnic groups were similarly attacked by the Ottoman Empire during this period, including Assyrians and Greeks, and some scholars consider those events to be part of the same policy of extermination.[10][11][12]

  192. gary says:

    How f*cking beautiful is this one!? Zillow estimates this hovel should list at 429K and the seller wants 550K or no deal! Right! LOL! It was sold for 455K in 06/09. To add to the misery, the taxes went from $4800 in 2004 to $9650 today.

    http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/49-Midland-Ave-Hillsdale-NJ-07642/37938463_zpid/

  193. gary says:

    $14,400 is the the current property tax, which, we all know is a f*cking lie by the time you get the quarterly bill from the politburo. And, it’s at least 150K over-priced.

    http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/Glen-Hook-Rd-Hillsdale-NJ-07642/2122797356_zpid/

  194. gary says:

    Look at some of the durations of tenure:

    21 CEOs over $100 million — Company, CEO, Tenure, Total Payout:

    General Electric John F. Welch Jr. 1981-2001 $417,361,902 Exxon Mobil Corp. Lee R. Raymond 1993-2005 $320,599,861 UnitedHealth Group William D. McGuire 1991-2006 $285,996,009 AT&T Edward E. Whitacre Jr. 1990-2007 $230,048,463 Home Depot Inc. Robert L. Nardelli 2000-2007 $223,290,123 North Fork Bank John A. Kanas 1977-2006 $214,300,000 Merck & Co., Inc./Schering-Plough Fred Hassan 2003-2009 $189,352,324 IBM Louis V. Gerstner Jr. 1993-2002 $189,005,929 Pfizer Inc. Hank A. McKinnell Jr. 2001-2006 $188,329,553 CVS Caremark Corp. Thomas M. Ryan 1998-2011 $185,415,435 Gillette Co. James M. Kilts 2001-2005 $164,532,192 Target Corp. Robert J. Ulrich 1994-2008 $164,162,612 Merrill Lynch & Co. E. Stanley O’Neal 2002-2007 $161,500,000 U.S. Bancorp Jerry A. Grundhofer 2001-2006 $159,064,090 Omnicare, Inc. Joel F. Gemunder 2001-2010 $146,001,476 Wachovia/South Trust Wallace D. Malone Jr. 1981-2004 $125,292,818 United Technologies Corp. George A. L. David 1994-2008 $122,631,309 eBay Inc. Margaret C. Whitman 1998-2008 $120,427,360 WellPoint Health Leonard Schaeffer 1992-2004 $119,041,000 XTO Energy Inc. Bob R. Simpson 1986-2008 $103,485,972 Viacom Thomas E. Freston 2006 $100,839,772 (Source: GMI)

  195. morpheus says:

    WTF????
    I try to talk up this website to people who want info on NJ real estate, and this is what they get? Did I just wake up in 2003 or 2004? wtf…..is wayne brady going to have to choke a bitch?

    Dont make me place you all in “time out”. God…I thought I would never say this but: I miss Jamil! At least that faux conservative had a little panache.

    Can we have a gun thread? Since moving had to change address on FID…Once again, references will be contacted. Once again…letters will be sent to employer. Once again, employer will freak out and tell me that “you should not have gun”. All this and I already acquired the permit. Just because I changed my address…WTF?

    Once again I will dislike all liberals and conservatives: Liberals like to tell me how to live my life because they are “smarter” than me. Conservatives like to tell me how to live my life because they are more “moral” than me. To both: FU!

  196. morpheus says:

    need more coffee. On one note: if the Pats win, Nom is going to be insufferable!

  197. Nothing gets better until we start shooting the whole scurvy lot of thieving politicians and their bureaucratic support system of goons.

    And when the shooting starts, let it begin with that phony, bleeding heart Wasserman byatch.

  198. 3b says:

    Jill: I saw the short sale one, and it is in good shape, just dont want the hassle of that. As far as the other one if it is close to Piermont, than I will have no interest, as I know that is a main drag. There is another one on Magnolia as I said a week or so ago, that I would be interested in (untouched 1950’s) kitchen but at 399, the listing is too high for me to throw a bid in.

  199. 3b says:

    #99 gary: Big difference too in the listing price vs the zestimate!!!!

    Anyhow if I can what I want at the price I am willing to pay than I am willing to do it now.

  200. 3b says:

    For you clot!!!!

    Artist: Lee Greenwood
    Song: Proud To Be An American

    If tomorrow all the things were gone,
    I’d worked for all my life.
    And I had to start again,
    with just my children and my wife.

    I’d thank my lucky stars,
    to be livin here today.
    ‘ Cause the flag still stands for freedom,
    and they can’t take that away.

    And I’m proud to be an American,
    where at least I know I’m free.
    And I wont forget the men who died,
    who gave that right to me.

    And I gladly stand up,
    next to you and defend her still today.
    ‘ Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land,
    God bless the USA.

    From the lakes of Minnesota,
    to the hills of Tennessee.
    Across the plains of Texas,
    From sea to shining sea.

    From Detroit down to Houston,
    and New York to L.A.
    Well there’s pride in every American heart,
    and its time we stand and say.

    That I’m proud to be an American,
    where at least I know I’m free.
    And I wont forget the men who died,
    who gave that right to me.

    And I gladly stand up,
    next to you and defend her still today.
    ‘ Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land,
    God bless the USA.

    And I’m proud to be and American,
    where at least I know I’m free.
    And I wont forget the men who died,
    who gave that right to me.

    And I gladly stand up,
    next to you and defend her still today.
    ‘ Cause there ain’t no doubt I love this land,
    God bless the USA.

  201. Shore Guy says:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/28/business/a-personal-and-painful-tax-reality-common-sense.html?_r=1&src=me&ref=general

    snip

    So with all the focus on tax rates, I sat down with my 2010 returns, calculator in hand. I’m still reeling from the results.

    I paid 24 percent of my adjusted gross income in federal taxes and 37 percent in combined federal, state and local income taxes. I paid 49 percent of my taxable income in federal income tax, and 74 percent of my taxable income in combined federal, state and local income taxes. My totals include federal payroll and self-employment taxes.

    When I reported the results to a few prominent tax experts, they were initially incredulous. “That’s very, very high,” said Robert Willens, a tax lawyer. “Congratulations.”

    A few people said I should run for president, but being in the upper 1 percent of taxpayers is probably a dubious distinction. “It’s embarrassing to have too low a tax rate, but equally embarrassing to have one too high,” said Mr. Willens, who’s also an adjunct professor at the Columbia Business School. “You want to be in the sweet spot where the president is, which is 26 percent or so. You’re not a sap, but you’re not exploiting loopholes.”

    It turns out that my individual circumstances are a near-perfect storm of punitive tax policies. Nearly all my income is earned, as opposed to capital gains, carried interest or dividend income taxed at a lower rate.

    I live in New York City, where I pay some of the highest state and local taxes in the nation. My mortgage deduction is small relative to my adjusted gross income, so it doesn’t help me much.

    Because I have nonemployee income, like book royalties, I also pay the unincorporated business tax on top of other income taxes, which costs me an additional 5 percent of adjusted gross income. And because my deductions are high relative to my total income, mostly because of the state and local income taxes I pay, I’m hit hard by the alternative minimum tax.

    “There’s not a whole lot you can do about any of that,” Mr. Willens said. “Capital gains and investment income taxes are capped at 15 percent, so the larger the percentage of your income attributable to those items, the lower your tax rate will be. Could you convert some of your ordinary income into tax-favored income? It’s very hard for someone in your circumstances.”

    Leonard Burman, a tax expert and a professor of public affairs at the Maxwell School of Syracuse University, agreed. “The fact is, if you’re working for a living, it’s not possible. What you need is some carried interest, but that’s going to be pretty hard for someone like you. Maybe you could get The New York Times to pay you in stock options.”

    snip

  202. SX says:

    201. Hmmm I buy it. The “people suck” argument. True Dat.

  203. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    (202) Morpheus,

    No, Nom will be relieved, and simply thankful that he doesn’t have to hear it all over again.

    Given that this team is weaker than the 2007 team, and has too many injuries, I’m not very hopeful. So relief would be the predominant emotion.

  204. morpheus says:

    208: “the people” dont suck. However, people on both ends of the political spectrum are annoying. Just let me live my life as I see fit. I get the feeling you may become our new “jamil”. oh well, the board needs bomb-throwers.

    209: Ok…I stand corrected.

  205. SX says:

    It is usually more or less easy to analyse others and classify them according to ­personality. It is often more difficult to turn the searchlight on one’s self in strict ­honesty, but that is what you must do in order to find out what improvement or change is necessary. One purpose in discovering your own personality is to know how you affect others. Consciously, or unconsciously, people feel your ­personality, and their reaction is a clue. – Paramahansa Yogananda

  206. gary says:

    Nom,

    What injuries? Gronkowski? You know he’ll be ready. And between him, the other TE and the backs and receivers, Brady can light it up. The patriots are going to use a three-step drop and a bunch formation to offset the Giants front four. I don’t think the Pats are weaker than the 2007 team at all.

  207. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [213] gary,

    Our D has been at half strength for most of the season. Made up of practice squad guys and offensive players going both ways. We have key players like Carter out for the season, and the rest are questionable. Some have been questionable for much of the season and haven’t played. And Gronk has a high ankle sprain. Tough as he is, that will limit his mobility, and you know that the d-backs will be landing on that ankle every tackle. Oh sure, we get ochocinco back but he has been a nonfactor all season.

    No, this is not the same team that torched the league with a 16-0 record.

    Win or lose, I will probably take about a week off from this board anyway. Too much shit in my personal life to deal with.

  208. Morpheus says:

    good God I miss Jamil!

  209. Morpheus says:

    214: hope u r ok Nom.

  210. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [207] shore

    Great tax piece. One thing that is prone to mislead was his discussion of AMT, and the suggestion that Romney pays less “AMT” than he does.

    All AMT does is to negate deductions or tax preferences on certain income. The higher your income, the greater the negation. But when you earn so much that you effectively have no deductions because they are phased out, and that the remaining deductions are outside of AMT, then the AMT bite looks to be less. It isn’t less, its just that at the higher levels, there nothing to claw back in terms of deductions.

  211. Barbara says:

    212.SX
    I know too many slick and manipulative NPD types to give the guidance in that advice any credence. I’ve seen people giddy in the presence of monsters.

  212. Barbara says:

    ….guidance in that quote, rather.

  213. 3b (206)-

    As God is my witness, I’ll hunt you down like a lion after a wounded wildebeest.

  214. Anon E. Moose says:

    See how the most successful gubmint t!t-suckers live in Washington, D.C.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/realestate/distinguished-homes/2011/12/19/gIQA3lJIQQ_gallery.html#photo=1

    Every damn one of them is for sale, too. Coincidence?

  215. Shore Guy says:

    What a joke trying to buy Springsteen tickets.

  216. Shore Guy says:

    Not sure why this got stuck in mod. lets see if this fixes things:

    Uggggggghhhhhhhh! And a primal scream of frustration. I hate the modern concert ticketbuying experience. This morning at 11 certain Springsteen shows went on sale. I logged in shortly before and got shunted into a “virtual waiting room” and after two hours of waiting got an opportunity to buy but it was down to single sca-tt-ered tickets.

  217. Happy Renter says:

    [201] “Since moving had to change address on FID…Once again, references will be contacted. Once again…letters will be sent to employer.”

    Are you kidding? Wow — I can’t believe they contact all of your references and do the whole song-and-dance again just because you are changing your home address. That makes no sense. Then again, it’s government, so what do I expect.

  218. Morpheus says:

    224: I kid you not. There will be much fun at work. I warned the partners about it and told them not to worry, I am ready for their lecture on why I should not have a gun in the first place. I told them that I understood their need for the speech.

    218: had to look up what you meant by “NPD”. Iam not the sharpest tool in the shed.

    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/narcissistic-personality-disorder/DS00652

  219. Juice Box says:

    Grilling steak and lobster tonight and it is almost warm enough to eat out on our deck. This is one weird winter.

  220. Morpheus says:

    Barbara: I believe you may be accurate in your diagnosis.

  221. Morpheus says:

    dont know why this popped into my head when talking about someone who may have NPD…..maybe the line “come here little fetus

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOKa6Flimv0&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL3487A9BF98D09D9D

  222. AG says:

    151,

    Funnel,

    I am beyond sick and tired of the stupidity in this country. When are people going to open their eyes and realize that our personal liberties are being stripped while our soldiers goto war for corporate interests. If you choose to remain stupid thats fine. You simply cant cure that but I will be dammed if my family has to suffer the consequences because the citizens of this country cant see through the BS.

    As for medication. I wish I could give you a pill to cure stupid because thats exactly what you are. This country needs a reality check and its going to get it.

  223. Juice Box says:

    [Charlie takes his medication at the Massena Police Station]
    Irene P. Waters: What are those for?
    Charlie Baileygates: Oh! It’s just this stupid thing. I have to take a pill every six hours or I feel… funny. No big deal.
    Irene P. Waters: What’s it called?
    Charlie Baileygates: Advanced delusionary schizophrenia with involuntary narcissistic rage.

  224. Happy Renter says:

    [225] I remember the “personal references” but, but I don’t even remember them contacting my employer the first time around; maybe I blocked out that memory. Effin’ A this state is absurd.

  225. cobbler says:

    moose [221]
    Actually, since the sellers in question are mostly lobbyists, they are most successful corporate, not gubmint t!t-suckers.

  226. AG says:

    Thank God there are folks that me that are willing to slap the status quo in the face. Go along to get along isn’t my style.

    I look forward to the next controversial topic.

    If I hurt you feelings I simply dont care. It needs to be said.

  227. Mocha says:

    224 Renter,

    RE FID card:

    This is not government, this is jersey.

    My town runs the NICS check, doesn’t bother with reference checks, doesn’t charge a fee, AND gets the permit back in under 30 days. I’m one of the lucky ones. When I lived elsewhere the wait and the “on the fly” lawmaking was unbelievable. Tenafly for instance I waited over a year and had to have an interview.

  228. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [214] morph,

    Remains to be seen. I think you can relate.

  229. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [231] renter,

    I don’t need the guns but since I am self employed, they can expect a glowing reference.

  230. Arthur Green says:

    Highly energetic article, I loved that a lot. Will there be a part 2?

  231. Anon E. Moose says:

    Morph [214];

    Thanks for the clue. I just assumed NPD meant Nassau Police Dept. Some winning personalities there…

  232. Anon E. Moose says:

    Morph [225];

    The gov’t doesn’t WANT you to have the permit. But you knew that.

  233. Anon E. Moose says:

    How to get ahead in modern America:
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/top-1-earners-majored-163026283.html

    Undergraduate Degree / Total / % Who Are 1 Percenters / Share of All 1 Percenters
    Economics / 1,237,863 / 8.2% / 5.4%
    Accounting / 2,296,601 / 3.9% / 4.7%
    [Wall Street Types]

    Biology 1,864,666 6.7% 6.6%
    [Docs]

    ….

    Political Science and Government 1,427,224 6.2% 4.7%
    [Gubmint t!t-suckers]

    Advise your children accordingly.

  234. cobbler says:

    moose [240]
    You will be disappointed… but the undergrad political sci majors who become 1-percenters are mostly lawyers and MBAs. Gubmint t!t-suckers have many things going for them, but not exec-level salaries.

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  237. Shore Guy says:

    Get up and get dressed, everyone. It is a great day to overspend on real estate.

  238. freedy says:

    Hurry . Rush to your local realtor

  239. Bystander says:

    freedy,

    You have to have real sellers first. So far I see a bunch of 2006-2008 pricers and the houses are not even in top shape. Ones that are in horrid condition are priced at 2004-2005. Not getting my money this year.

  240. freedy says:

    Its going to come down to : “all about the Property Taxes” capes with 10k tax bills
    that need 50k to fix up should go down to 1999 /2000 levels to become even interesting .

  241. gary says:

    “When equity was abundant you would have parents pulling from savings or possibly refinancing and taking money out in order to help their children with the down payments. I don’t see that kind of assistance any longer. I believe more and more children are moving in with their parents. They either can’t find high-enough paying jobs to be out on their own or they are strapped with student loans. It seems that parents are not in a position to help out, other than to have the children move back in.”

    Got Buyer?

  242. gary says:

    She said 50 percent of young clients are not aware that they need to have the income to justify a mortgage because good credit is not enough.

    Wait a minute… you mean everyone doesn’t get a f*cking pony?

  243. gary says:

    freedy [250],

    We’re currently at half time. What until you see the 2nd half of this game.

  244. Jill says:

    3b #205: The kitchen in that Magnolia house is so Betty Draper it would almost be a shame to rip it out. At least mine has a bad 70’s reface job and ugly yellow geometric sheet vinyl floor, so it has no redeeming qualities…though Pam Kueber seems to think those 70’s vinyl floors are coming back.

    As for me, the day the 70’s become chic is the day I stick my head in the oven.

  245. Punch My Ticket says:

    As long as it has that avocado color, it will all be good.

  246. 3b says:

    #254 Jill: I liked that one, and agree the kitchen is almost, almost nice enough not to rip out. At 399K though no snes me putting in an offer, as they will turn it down;it needs to sit a while with a mark down in asking price. As for the other one on Magnolia my better half nixed it form the pictures, bizzare down stairs lay out all one big room; not going to work. So we will continue to look. At least we finally settled on a town.

  247. 3b says:

    #250 freedy: Agree completely, been saying that for a while now.

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  250. efi driver says:

    kind of appreciated this article :) not all of it – there are some things which i found a little off but altogether it was a pleasant read, thanks for the post! =) Regards.

  251. dan in debt says:

    From the WSJ on wine:

    Back in the late ’80s, the French government was planning to run train tracks for the high-speed TGV right through the middle of the historic vineyards of Vouvray, and Gaston Huet, as mayor of the town and its most important vintner, was leading the fight against the plan. When the writers Don and Petie Kladstrup went to interview Mr. Huet about the controversy, they asked him in passing about the greatest wine he’d ever tasted.

    Enlarge Image

    Close

    Brian Stauffer for The Wall Street Journal
    Not surprisingly, he said it was a Chenin Blanc from his native Loire Valley, but he couldn’t remember the maker or the vintage. He had tasted it as a prisoner of war in Germany, and the wine, a thimbleful in a mustard jar, was underripe and short on the finish. But it had the characteristic pear, apple and honey flavors of his beloved Loire Chenin, and it was the first wine he’d tasted since his capture some two years before.

    A railroad tunnel was excavated under the vineyards of Vouvray in the late ’80s and Mr. Huet passed away in 2002, leaving his winery in the capable hands of his son-in-law Noël Pinguet, while the Kladstrups published a very fine book called “Wine and War” that was inspired in part by Mr. Huet’s story. What hasn’t really changed all that much is the relative obscurity of Loire Chenin Blanc. Sauvignon Blanc, the other white grape of the Loire Valley, gets more recognition, particularly when it’s grown in Sancerre and Pouilly-Fumé. But to my mind, Chenin is a much greater and more versatile grape.

    Chenin Blanc almost certainly originated in the central Loire Valley, although both California and South Africa have more acreage planted in it. Most of the Golden State’s plantings are in the hot Central Valley, and these grapes usually end up blended anonymously into jug wine, while the South African plantings, which were brought to the Cape by French Huguenot refugees in the 17th century, were known for many years as “Steen.”

    Chenin reaches its greatest heights in the Loire Valley, but in keeping with French practice you won’t see the name of the grape on the bottle, but rather the village or region where it’s grown. With the exception of Vouvray, none of these are exactly household names; other appellations include Anjou, Bonnezeaux, Chinon, Coteaux du Layon, Jasnières, Montlouis-sur-Loire, Quarts de Chaume, Saumur and Savennières. Got that? Chenin’s identity crisis is further exacerbated by the fact that it’s vinified in a variety of styles from dry to very sweet, in both still and sparkling forms. For many connoisseurs, the dessert wines of Vouvray, Quarts de Chaume and Bonnezeaux represent the apex of Chenin, although I’m currently most interested in the dry wines, many of them from relatively new domains.

    “Sauvignon Blanc gets more recognition, but to my mind, Chenin is a much greater and more versatile grape.”

    “Chenin is France’s answer to German Riesling,” said Daniel Johnnes, the wine director of Daniel Boulud’s restaurant group, at a recent gathering of New York sommeliers in my living room as we prepared to taste some 25 Chenins. In some company this statement could clear the room fast, but sommeliers love Riesling, despite the relative skepticism of the American drinking public, and they also tend to love Chenin, for some of the same reasons—it’s relatively high-acid, which makes it food-friendly and lively even when it has residual sugar. I’ve yet to see our congregation, which convenes regularly, as enthusiastic about a group of wines.

    The central Loire is a cradle of so-called natural wine making, and of organic and biodynamic viticulture, thanks in part to the towering presence of Nicolas Joly, the messianic proprietor of Coulée de Serrant in Savennières. A 1985 Coulée de Serrant was my epiphany Chenin, and I finally made a pilgrimage to the estate last year. To listen to the erudite and cosmically conscious Monsieur Joly explain the tenets of biodynamics, the system of holistic agriculture based on the teachings of Austrian theosophist Rudolph Steiner, while walking the rolling hills of his vineyard on the north bank of the Loire, it’s easy to be convinced that conventional agriculture is pernicious and that biodynamics is the future, if not necessarily to understand it in rational terms. Noël Pinguet, Mr. Huet’s son-in-law, was one of the first in the region to be converted.

    Domaine Huet is almost certainly the world’s most celebrated source of Chenin Blanc; since Gaston’s father purchased the domain in 1928, it has produced whites renowned for their freshness and longevity. A 1985 Vouvray Clos du Bourg our group tasted was incredibly fresh and vibrant, quite dry but with the signature flavor of honey, and a 1959 Le Haut-Lieu tasted earlier was definitely my white wine of the year last year. Like many makers of Chenin, Huet makes wines that range from dry to sweet. Harvesting is done by hand, and many passes are made through the vineyards. The ripest grapes, sometimes affected by botrytis, or noble rot, go into the sweetest wines, labeled moelleux (sweet), followed by demi-sec (semisweet) and sec, which denotes the driest wines. (In exceptional years, a super-sweet liquoreux called Cuvée Constance is produced.)

    Read More
    What They’re Drinking at Davos
    On Wine blog
    In recent years the central Loire Valley, which has much more affordable vineyard land than Bordeaux or Burgundy, has attracted many ambitious and adventurous young winemakers. Jacky Blot of Domaine de la Taille Aux Loups is among the most exciting of the newer Chenin producers, and we were all impressed with his 2010 Montlouis Les Caburoches, a vibrant dry Chenin. The mustachioed Mr. Blot began his career as a negotiant in Tours and gradually began acquiring small domains in Montlouis, a not-terribly-fashionable appellation on the South Bank of the Loire, and eventually a few acres in the more illustrious town of Vouvray, across the river. Mr. Blot’s obsessive attention to detail in the vineyard and the cellar has helped set a new standard for the appellation, as have the efforts of François Chidaine, a baby-faced Montlouis native who farms biodynamically and, like Mr. Blot, has lately acquired vineyards in Vouvray—specifically the celebrated Clos Baudoin vineyard, which is sort of the equivalent of a boy from the Bronx buying a building on Park Avenue. Honestly, though, the Montlouis wines are at this point as good as the Vouvrays.

    Twenty years ago Joly and Huet were among the few names you needed to know for Chenin Blanc, but now the region is teeming with great producers, and the biggest problem facing consumers is where to start, when faced with so many appellations and so many winemaking styles. Most of us drink dry wines most often, so that’s a good place to start (although I sometimes think the demi-sec category may show Loire Chenin at its best). Dry wines are made in all the appellations. Savennières is almost inevitably dry, with stony undertones; look for Domaine FL and Domaine Laffourcade. Even the dry Chenins usually display a rich honey character, along with fruit reminiscent of apple or, more often, pear. Lanolin (aka sheep fat) is a signature aromatic characteristic for Loire Chenin; tasters also sometimes cite wet wool.

    Chenin often seems to have a rich texture in the mouth; Rabelais compared the Chenins of his native Chinon to taffeta. Silky, yes, but not wimpy. Sommelier Jerusha Frost, of the Lion, pairs an ’08 Sébastien Brunet Vouvray Sec with Wagyu beef crudo, while Carla Rzeszewski of the Breslin pours the 2007 Domaine FL Roches-aux-Moines Savennières with April Bloomfield’s suckling pig. That’s a combination of which I feel certain Rabelais, the author of “Gargantua,” would have approved.

  252. Shore Guy says:

    From that NYT piece:

    Far from being deterred by the sticker prices, more families seem to be hiring consultants — at an additional cost — in hopes of getting a leg up.

    One consulting firm, Manhattan Private School Advisors, said it worked with 1,431 families this school year, up from 605 three years ago. The company’s fee has gone up, too: It was $21,500 this year and $18,500 three years ago.

  253. Shore Guy says:

    $500,000 for K-12 education, per child, seems like a deal to me. Where can I sign up

  254. Dissident HEHEHE says:

    Already There?
    Five more reasons why America is on the road to Banana Republicville (or are we already there?):

    http://www.financialarmageddon.com/2012/01/already-there.html

  255. Confused in NJ says:

    SALMON, Idaho (Reuters) – Bird enthusiasts are reporting rising numbers of snowy owls from the Arctic winging into the lower 48 states this winter in a mass southern migration that a leading owl researcher called “unbelievable.”

    Thousands of the snow-white birds, which stand 2 feet tall with 5-foot wingspans, have been spotted from coast to coast, feeding in farmlands in Idaho, roosting on rooftops in Montana, gliding over golf courses in Missouri and soaring over shorelines in Massachusetts.

    A certain number of the iconic owls fly south from their Arctic breeding grounds each winter but rarely do so many venture so far away even amid large-scale, periodic southern migrations known as irruptions.

    “What we’re seeing now — it’s unbelievable,” said Denver Holt, head of the Owl Research Institute in Montana.

    “This is the most significant wildlife event in decades,” added Holt, who has studied snowy owls in their Arctic tundra ecosystem for two decades.

  256. Mocha says:

    567 Lafayette Ave
    Westwood, NJ 07675
    LP 400k

    on the market for 7 days, two offers at list today.

    Start of a trend or simply a lack of quality inventory during the winter months? I’ve suspected that smart money is selling right now with virtually no competition.

  257. Mocha says:

    I’ve been sitting on the sidelines for the past 5 years and I find the thought of bidding wars emerging again to be very unsettling.

  258. Shore Guy says:

    Hehe,

    The first step to recovery is admitting one is sick, and as a country we seem to refuse to admit we have a problem that we need to cure. No problem here, lets just borrow another couple trillion. Party on Garth.

  259. Shore Guy says:

    Mocha,

    We have been looking for an additional place for a number of years. For awhile, I was upset that we did not just buy, now I am grateful that we did not. I’d rather spend $30,000+ a year on vacations than lose $30,000+ a year in asset value/taxes.

    If others again choose to spend their money unwisely and bid up house prices, I will neither try to stop them nor try to compete with them.

  260. dan (263)-

    Thanks for that. Great Vouvray is the shiznit. Have to also mention Foreau and Pinon in any conversation about the greats, IMO.

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