Case Shiller: NY metro prices fall 2.3% in November

From the Record:

Region’s home prices drop 2.3%

Home prices in the New York metropolitan area, including North Jersey, dropped 2.3 percent in November, compared with a year earlier, the Standard & Poor’s Case-Shiller index reported Tuesday. Nationally, prices dropped 3.7 percent.

Prices in the region have fallen 23 percent since the market peak in 2006, and are back to early 2004 levels. Nationally, prices have declined 33 percent since the peak, and are back to the levels of mid-2003.

In Bergen County, the median price of a single-family home fell 8 percent, to a median $400,000 in November, while the number of sales dropped about 3 percent. In Passaic, prices dropped 8.4 percent, to a median $288,500, while the number of sales dropped 13.7 percent.

These numbers are from the N.J. and Garden State multiple listing services, and reflect the mix of properties sold during the month. Case-Shiller does not break down data by county, but its numbers are considered more accurate because it tracks the value of the same properties over time.

“The trend is down, and there are few, if any, signs in the numbers that a turning point is close at hand.”

— David M. Blitzer, chairman of the index committee at Standard & Poor’s

“With the prospect of rising foreclosures — as the legal and administrative issues are resolved — we can expect the downward pressure on prices to increase in the coming months, despite historically low mortgage rates.”

— Patrick O’Keefe, an economist with J.H. Cohn in Roseland

“There’s been a substantial decline in prices in the New York metropolitan area, but that’s not quite enough to bring prices back in line with household income levels. By the summer of 2012, home prices in the area are expected to fall an additional 7.7 percent.”

— David Stiff, economist, Fiserv Inc.

This entry was posted in Economics, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

141 Responses to Case Shiller: NY metro prices fall 2.3% in November

  1. grim says:

    From Bloomberg:

    U.S. Homeownership Rate Declines to 1998 Levels, Census Says

    The U.S. homeownership rate fell in the fourth quarter as borrowers lost homes to foreclosure and tight lending standards stalled purchases.

    The rate fell to 66 percent from 66.3 percent in the third quarter, as low as it was in 1998, the Census Bureau said in a report today. It peaked at 69.2 percent in June 2004 and fell to a post-peak low of 65.9 percent in the second quarter of last year, according to the report.

    “The share of Americans who are willing and able to own their own home is still falling,” Paul Diggle, an economist with Capital Economics in London said today in a note. “The flipside is more households in the rented sector and fewer properties lacking tenants. This is helping to drive rents, and therefore landlords’ returns, higher.”

  2. grim says:

    From CNBC:

    Housing Demand Defies Fundamentals

    Anyone with any cash in hand should be buying a house right now.

    That’s what any real estate agent will tell you, obviously, but that’s also what many investors now believe.

    Unfortunately, the potential home-buying public…isn’t buying it.

    January’s consumer confidence report found a drop in the number of Americans who plan to buy a home in the next six months. If, however, you take out the confidence issue, the fundamentals for buying are strong:

    Home prices nationally are down 33 percent from their bubble peak, according to the latest S&P/Case-Shiller report, mortgage rates are hovering near record lows, and housing supply, while falling, is still historically high. In other words, it’s more of a buyer’s market than it’s ever been.

    And yet the home ownership rate continues to fall, and rental demand, occupancies and rates continue to rise.

    “Federal plans to sell real estate owned properties to investors might provide some relief, but rental value growth is still likely to hit 3 percent this year and average rental yields may rise to around 5.5 percent,” wrote Paul Diggle of Capital Economics, who believes the downturn in homeownership may still have further to run.

    “We have to get the demand up, we have to tighten the supply a little bit before we will see any shift in prices and we haven’t seen that,” said Blitzer in an interview on CNBC. But how do you tighten supply of foreclosed homes in neighborhoods that are so empty that the homes are deemed “unsellable.” Blitzer made an interesting observation:

    “Periodically in studies of urban renewal, people come up with arguments that, take such and such a neighborhood, level it, fence it off for the next fifteen years until we need the land and then come back in,” said Blitzer. “That’s in effect what’s going to happen to some of these areas.”

  3. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Home Prices Tumble

    U.S. home prices fell again in November, according to the Standard & Poor’s Case-Shiller indexes, indicating continued struggles for the beleaguered housing market.

    The sector has remained sluggish despite lower prices and interest rates due to a slowly improving economy, an abundance of foreclosures and tighter mortgage requirements.

    “Tighter lending standards and widespread expectations of further declines in home values have been depressing home sales on a larger scale,” said economists Ellen Zentner, Aichi Amemiy and Jeffrey Greenberg of Nomura Economics Research in a note to clients. “In addition, a growing share of distressed assets in home sales that are typically sold at a 20% discount are putting downward pressure on house prices.”

    For November, the Case-Shiller index of 10 major metropolitan areas and the 20-city index both fell 1.3% from the previous month. David M. Blitzer, chairman of the index committee at S&P Indices, also noted that 19 of the 20 major U.S. metropolitan markets covered by the indices in November saw prices decline from October, with just Phoenix showing an increase. Atlanta, Las Vegas, Seattle and Tampa posted new index level lows.

    “The only positive for the month was Phoenix, one of the hardest hit in recent years,” Mr. Blitzer said. “Annual rates were little better as 18 cities and both composites were negative.” Just Detroit and Washington D.C. notched year-over-year gains.

  4. grim says:

    From CNBC:

    US Mortgage Applications Dipped Last Week: MBA

    Applications for U.S. home mortgages slipped last week, even as interest rates also eased, an industry group said on Wednesday.

    The Mortgage Bankers Association said its seasonally adjusted index of mortgage application activity, which includes both refinancing and home purchase demand, fell 2.9 percent in the week ended Jan 27.

    The MBA’s seasonally adjusted index of refinancing applications slipped 3.6 percent, while the gauge of loan requests for home purchases gave up 1.7 percent.

  5. freedy says:

    Corzine has listed his Penthouse at a 300k loss in Hoboken

  6. Mike says:

    Our little girl is growing up !!!
    BIRTHDAY REMINDER – This week we celebrate a very special birthday…

    Monica Lewinsky turns 50!

    Can you believe it ? It seems like only yesterday she was crawling around the White House on her hands and knees, putting everything in her mouth…

    They grow up so fast, don’t they?

  7. Bocephus says:

    7. Ewww.

  8. Proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free HEHEHE says:

    Yeah freedy, posted it yesterday. You should read the comments in that Dealbreaker column on it – some all time classics:)

  9. Proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free HEHEHE says:

    Facebook IPO = top of the stock market for a couple of years?

  10. Proud to be an American where at least I know I'm free HEHEHE says:

    Corzine raises 500K for Obama = get out of jail free card

  11. JJ says:

    I find that news hard to swallow

    Mike says:
    February 1, 2012 at 7:48 am
    Our little girl is growing up !!!
    BIRTHDAY REMINDER – This week we celebrate a very special birthday…

    Monica Lewinsky turns 50!

  12. Mikeinwaiting says:

    January ADP Jobs Report: +170K vs. +292K prior (revised from 325K) and expectations of 182K.

    Oh bother. Were is the unexpected!

  13. Mikeinwaiting says:

    JJ good one.

  14. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Were + where

  15. Mikeinwaiting says:

    A little snip on the ADP report:
    “We cover the ADP release because we have to,” cynically writes the group at TD Securities, “but it is always with an eye of suspicion.” Digging into the details finds ADP reporting an increase of 9K financial jobs in January. “In what country,” asks ZeroHedge, no doubt aware of the long string of layoff announcements in the industry.

    LOL

  16. Shore Guy says:

    Well, duh! Anyone with any access to intelligence reports (or to those with aceess) has known this. it is time to kill some high-value target, declare victory and get the heck out:

    http://www.voanews.com/english/news/Leaked-Report-Alleges-Pakistan-is-Helping-Afghan-Taliban–138469459.html

  17. Brian says:

    JJ – just wondering, why do you need a mortgage? I get the impression you could afford to buy a place outright.

    My uncle does the same thing, he has millions, but instead of using it to fix up his place in Seaside, he applies for a home equity loan.

    Isn’t the goal to stay out of debt?

    116.JJ says:
    January 31, 2012 at 1:50 pm
    I have to get pre-qualified for a Bank of America Mortgage to bid on a BOA REO today. I wonder what crazy loan limit they will give me? Back in the 1990s Chase once prequalified me for a 500K mortgage on 61K income.

  18. Shore Guy says:

    Is saying that housing prices continue to decline a bit like saying: Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead

  19. Shore Guy says:

    “Monica Lewinsky turns 50!”

    Cigars for everyone.

  20. JJ says:

    So last night BOA told me I have a 814 credit score. But it seems anything above 700 is all the same. So in reality there is no point in have a great credit score. You would think people above 800 would get a slightly lower rate, but no.

    Oddly I lent to BOA at 9% when I bought there bonds and now they want to lend back to me at 4%. If it was not for Fannie that transaction would be non-exist. Who in the real world would borrow money from someone at 9% and lend it back to same person at 4%. This is why Fannie distorts the market.

    The Original NJ ExPat says:
    January 31, 2012 at 9:24 pm
    JJ 814 credit score is that good.

    I used to have a Providian/Capital One credit card that I never used, but it gave me my credit score from one agency (Experian, I think?) every month. I loved it. I never got above 742 or so a couple years ago, buy my wife was really high. We bought a car in September and they ran my wife’s credit score, I think it was 787 or so. In front of the salesman I quipped, “I thought you used to be a lot higher than that.” Without missing a beat, she retorted, “That was before I married you.” Gotta love her.

  21. toomuchchange says:

    I rarely click through the various Google ads I see, but I couldn’t resist wanting to know more about … National Diaper Bank.

    Yes, that’s right. I guess it makes sense with so much unemployment and low wage jobs, if people can’t afford food and rent, why should they be able to afford diapers? Still, a diaper bank. Jesus. I’m surprised that they had money for the ad — or does Google give away freebies to nonprofits?

    http://www.diaperbanknetwork.org/

    Some Facts About Diaper Need

    * 1 in 3 families in America struggle to afford diapers for their children.
    * 34% of families surveyed had cut back on basics such as food, utilities or child care in order to purchase diapers for their child.
    * 22% of all children under five years of age in the United States live in poverty.
    * Poverty is most pronounced in households led by single mothers, where 54% of children live in poverty (as opposed to 10% of children under five in double-parent households).
    * At an average cost of $18 per week, families require $936—more than 4% of poverty-threshold income—per child per year for diapers.
    * Families from a range of incomes struggle to afford diapers, including both families who fall below the federal guideline of poverty ($22,350 for a family of four) and families with incomes above the federal poverty guideline but who are still considered low-income.
    * Research suggests that families earning twice the federal poverty guideline still struggle to meet their basic needs.

    Needless to say, they’re eager to receive donations of money or diapers.

  22. gary says:

    In Bergen County, the median price of a single-family home fell 8 percent, to a median $400,000 in November, while the number of sales dropped about 3 percent.

    “There’s been a substantial decline in prices in the New York metropolitan area, but that’s not quite enough to bring prices back in line with household income levels. By the summer of 2012, home prices in the area are expected to fall an additional 7.7 percent.”

    — David Stiff, economist, Fiserv Inc.

    “The trend is down, and there are few, if any, signs in the numbers that a turning point is close at hand.”

    — David M. Blitzer, chairman of the index committee at Standard & Poor’s

    No comment required

  23. JJ says:

    Only cuase it is an investment rental property and my wife is still on fence on getting a trade up home. So she wants to keep cash on side. I may or may not do it. I have to pay 1% in points on home and pay for title insurance for bank on loan plus title insurance for me. And other fees. I may just take my free cash, take a margin loan vs. bonds to pay for rest of house and since I am facing a sea of possible full and partial calls in 2012 let the called bonds pay off the margin loan on their own rather than reinvest and then deduct the margin interest on taxes. But if I take no mortgage issue is what do I do with rental income. If I report it I am screwed as it is nearly all profit since I have no mortgage but if I don’t report it I might get in big trouble with IRS.

    Brian says:
    February 1, 2012 at 8:41 am
    JJ – just wondering, why do you need a mortgage? I get the impression you could afford to buy a place outright.

    My uncle does the same thing, he has millions, but instead of using it to fix up his place in Seaside, he applies for a home equity loan.

    Isn’t the goal to stay out of debt?

    116.JJ says:
    January 31, 2012 at 1:50 pm
    I have to get pre-qualified for a Bank of America Mortgage to bid on a BOA REO today. I wonder what crazy loan limit they will give me? Back in the 1990s Chase once prequalified me for a 500K mortgage on 61K income.

  24. JJ says:

    Diapers, really, really. My Mom had some cloth diapers she washed in her sink in hot boiling waters by hand with bleach and hung them out on the clothes line between the apts. Why would a poor person be buying disposable diapers. It is a luxury item that is terrible for the environment. Why don’t I give them car detailing coupons too.

  25. 3B says:

    #24 gary: late 90’s prices are not out of the question. I am seeing some ASKING prices now at 2003/04 levels.

  26. Shadow of John says:

    “National Diaper Bank”

    Who needs a diaper bank? Diapers are for nancy boys to be. When I was little my mother used to go out back and get moss to wrap me in. I got sick and tired of beatles so within six months I was toilet traind. at 9 months I was using the urinal. I used moss for my kids and they adapted just fine. No need to wash moss, just apply some mirical grow and let it replenish itself each day.

  27. 3B says:

    #23 I am skeptical on poverty numbers, I am just not seeing it in this area. I see young single/married mothers with the latest fashion, I Phones all th rest shopping at Garden State Plaza. I see the same all the time in Manhattan, young Mothers with Mc Greggor strollers. Maybe some of these people have no money for the necessities because they spend it on fluff.

  28. gary says:

    3B,

    They’re lining up for the kick-off for the 2nd half. This is going to get worse… a lot worse… before it gets better.

  29. 3B says:

    #26 In the Bronx we had a diaper service, mom used cloth diapers the contents were flushed down the toilet, then the diapers went into the diaper pail. Once a week the diaper service came and returned them clean a few days later. Everybody on the block with babies had the diaper service.

  30. Brian says:

    yeah well, I wish I could get my son to stop crapping his pants but he’s stubborn (like his dad…he knows he’s agravating me). I keep trying to put underpants on him and it works for a while but if he craps in them I don’t bother cleaning them…nasty. Just tie em in a knot and throw them out. Some times it’s just not worth the time.

    26.JJ says:
    February 1, 2012 at 8:53 am
    Diapers, really, really. My Mom had some cloth diapers she washed in her sink in hot boiling waters by hand with bleach and hung them out on the clothes line between the apts. Why would a poor person be buying disposable diapers. It is a luxury item that is terrible for the environment. Why don’t I give them car detailing coupons too.

  31. JJ says:

    Why would anyone in their right mind pay 2003 or 2004 prices for a home. First of all on average we are back at 2003 prices. Second that includes MLSL owner occupied homes which go for market value. Distressed properties that need to move quick have to go back to 2001/2002 pricing. Now a cash deal on an REO as is we an get back to 1999 pricing. THe REO I am about to bid on was purchased in 1997 for 150K. I plan on bidding 150K on the house. I figure the worst we will get back to is 1993-1997 pricing the last inflation adjusted market bottom. We have to retest the prior market bottom to start a new bull market.

    Now here is where I expect BOA to spit up in their coffee. I am proposing transfering 150K face value of Bank of America TRUPS I own in exchange for the property. It should be an amazing deal, they clean up liabiliites and the balance sheet in one shot.

    I am also proposing BOA due a tender offer at face of all its outstanding bonds for distressed properties. What a win win. Kinda a clunkers for clunkers program.

  32. JJ says:

    Brian you should really remarry. That lady work is beneath you.

    Brian says:
    February 1, 2012 at 9:04 am
    yeah well, I wish I could get my son to stop crapping his pants but he’s stubborn (like his dad…he knows he’s agravating me). I keep trying to put underpants on him and it works for a while but if he craps in them I don’t bother cleaning them…nasty. Just tie em in a knot and throw them out. Some times it’s just not worth the time.

    26.JJ says:
    February 1, 2012 at 8:53 am
    Diapers, really, really. My Mom had some cloth diapers she washed in her sink in hot boiling waters by hand with bleach and hung them out on the clothes line between the apts. Why would a poor person be buying disposable diapers. It is a luxury item that is terrible for the environment. Why don’t I give them car detailing coupons too.

  33. 3B says:

    #30 gary: I am going to see a house in Hillsdale this weekend listed at 385K paid 365 in March of 2004. Apparently not short sale either. Also in the land of Unicorns there ate alot of decent houses sitting and rotting listed at under 400k quite a few too in the low 300’s.

  34. 3B says:

    #33 I agree with you, and that is why AI think late 90’s pricing is ultimately where we will go. However if you told people 3 years ago or so that prices in this area would go back to 2003 prices you would have been laughed at, scorned, or shot.

  35. Brian says:

    Ha yeah. Thank you women’s lib movement.

    I talk like I know what I’m doing but really i change 1 diaper for every 100 my wife does.

    34.JJ says:
    February 1, 2012 at 9:06 am
    Brian you should really remarry. That lady work is beneath you.

    Brian says:
    February 1, 2012 at 9:04 am
    yeah well, I wish I could get my son to stop crapping his pants but he’s stubborn (like his dad…he knows he’s agravating me). I keep trying to put underpants on him and it works for a while but if he craps in them I don’t bother cleaning them…nasty. Just tie em in a knot and throw them out. Some times it’s just not worth the time.

    26.JJ says:
    February 1, 2012 at 8:53 am
    Diapers, really, really. My Mom had some cloth diapers she washed in her sink in hot boiling waters by hand with bleach and hung them out on the clothes line between the apts. Why would a poor person be buying disposable diapers. It is a luxury item that is terrible for the environment. Why don’t I give them car detailing coupons too.

  36. gary says:

    There’s no ability to earn any yield on your money let alone keep up with inflation EVEN if you happen to be a prolific saver/investor. The real kill shot, though, is the lack of good jobs. Not the 2 part time jobs at Target and McDonalds that the monthly census touts but real career roles. Interest rates can stay at 0% forever and houses can go to 1996 prices but if you don’t have a stabile job, nothing else matters.

  37. gary says:

    3B [35],

    Let us know the details of that house when you find out.

  38. Anon E. Moose says:

    JJ [25];

    I have to get pre-qualified for a Bank of America Mortgage to bid on a BOA REO today.

    I know that this is a common requirement, but I always thought it was a bad negotiating tactic to unilaterally open up my books to my counterparty on the other side of the table. If they want to see a prequal from a third party lender, sure. Mine were always for the amount of my bid, and no more. Why tell the seller exactly how high you can go?

  39. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    During the Clinton impeachment saga, I worked across the street from the WH. One Sat, I was taking a breao and strolling along Penna Ave by the North Lawn, puffing on a cigar. Took me a while to figure out why I kept getting dirty looks.

    I was taking a cigar break. That was all. Really.

  40. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Breao=break

  41. Anon E. Moose says:

    too [23];

    I’d love to see that “charity’s” expense ratio. Plenty of money for expenses like six figure exec salaries, gala fund raising parties, etc. Non-profit, my @$$… GM was a non-profit organization; as are almost half of all small businesses.

  42. Anon E. Moose says:

    Nom [41];

    Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

  43. 3B says:

    #39 gary: Will do.

  44. The Original NJ Expat says:

    JJ If it was not for Fannie that transaction would be non-exist.

    Exactly. Before govt backing, there was no such thing as a 30 year mortgage. Who would take a low interest rate with lots of risk for that duration? Nobody. During the depression many people lost their homes/farms etc. because they couldn’t refinance, not because they were broke. Back then it was year loans with balloon payments at the end. Nobody ever made their balloon payment, they just refinanced. Suddenly the bank was either gone or wouldn’t lend in your town, you couldn’t refi and you lost your house or farm.

    OTOH, the BEST way to drive up the price of ANYTHING is to have the govt subsidize the market. Examples: Health Care before Medicaid/Medicare, College before govt guaranteed loans, 30 year mortgages guaranteed by the govt. guarantees. All of the previous were very affordable until the govt got their hands in them. Just add govt, water, and one generation and prices will skyrocket.

  45. JJ says:

    Gary that statement is now true. But pretty much an extremely conservative saver could have since 2008 bought a mix of five year FDIC insured CDs, I-bonds, 2-10 year A rated munis, 2-10 year treasuries, 2-10 year investment grade bonds and have continued to got good yield without much duration or default risk.

    Not until January 2012 did the Fed extinguish all sources of good yield low risk low duration (under ten years) income investments. Now we are finally able to push savers into real estate, junk bonds, stocks or start new business or for companies to invest in new equipement or hiring workers. As now we have no yield. For instance the five year CD crowd have their 2007 and 2008 CDs rolling over soon. What are they replacing their 5.5% CDs with? 2012 NY/NJ Ten year munis are maturing this year. Rates were higher in 2002 plus with the 9/11 aftermath and massive recession and lost of jobs the bonds had to pay a very good coupon, well it is 2012 and it is maturity time.

    People roll five year cds and roll ten year treasuries, munis and investment grade bonds. My Mom when retired that was her strategy. Low risk, long enough duration to get yield but not too long. We have never had interest rates low this long. In the past Mom has years like 2003 with low rates but it never lasted long. Now people are facing the majority of their ten year roll in low interest or have the choice stay in cash and earn zero.

    For instance I got called on some bonds yesterday. Leucenda which is a NY based rock solid company. They were bonds that martured in 2027 with a 8.6% coupon. On March 15 a retiree who owns lets say 100K of bond issue, is losing $8,600 a year income. Where is he putting that 100K. Either in extremely risk stuff to replicate 8.6% yield or cash. Lose/Lose. I only had $25,000 of the Leucenda bonds but even that was $2,150 a year. My savings account only pays 1/2 of 1 percent right now so if I leave my $25,000 there I only get $125 a year interest.

    gary says:
    February 1, 2012 at 9:13 am
    There’s no ability to earn any yield on your money let alone keep up with inflation EVEN if you happen to be a prolific saver/investor. The real kill shot, though, is the lack of good jobs. Not the 2 part time jobs at Target and McDonalds that the monthly census touts but real career roles. Interest rates can stay at 0% forever and houses can go to 1996 prices but if you don’t have a stabile job, nothing else matters.

  46. The Original NJ Expat says:

    5 year loans with balloon payments.

  47. Anon E. Moose says:

    Mike [7];

    According to wikipedia, Monica is 38, and her birthday is in July. Gennifer Flowers is 62, her birthday is Jan 24.

    If must be somebody of note who’s birthday is today, but I simply don’t have the time to list all the people Clinton is known or believed to have screwed around with.

  48. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [49] moose,

    Thought that 50 made no sense. When I read it, I was thinking “huh?”

  49. The Original NJ Expat says:

    Isn’t it funny how most serious investors know that the bond market is about to end it’s multi decade bull market but won’t take notice that gold has gone up for, what, 11 years now?

  50. JJ says:

    I am required to only show them a BOA pre-qual letter or my financial statements. I did not want to give the stupid RE broker copies of my bank statements so I went this route.

    I see your point. But on a tiny REO it is obvious my income has nothing to do with it. Anyhow could buy this house. Plus I only qualified myself for 10% less than asking.

    Anon E. Moose says:
    February 1, 2012 at 9:17 am
    JJ [25];

    I have to get pre-qualified for a Bank of America Mortgage to bid on a BOA REO today.

    I know that this is a common requirement, but I always thought it was a bad negotiating tactic to unilaterally open up my books to my counterparty on the other side of the table. If they want to see a prequal from a third party lender, sure. Mine were always for the amount of my bid, and no more. Why tell the seller exactly how high you can go?

  51. danxp says:

    chifi

    used the uber-inspector peter bennett… he took 3+ hrs and i got the thermal imaging upgrade for the low low price of $150 extra on top of the $600… very expensive, you say? yes, but he found so many issues that i was able to go back to the buyer and knock off about $10k…

    highly recommend…

    thanks chifi.

  52. A.West says:

    Regarding diapers for poor people, the Chinese have long utilized a clever and cheap solution:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/bethanyferrell/2535935970/

  53. danxp says:

    i joined angie’s list to find some contractors and it appears there are many that service the bergen county area… can the reviews there be trusted?

  54. JJ says:

    Gold had a great run. But remember gold in a pension fund or management account is never more than 5%. Plus gold throws off no income stream. Junk bonds currently pay 8 billion in interest payments every month. Per todays WSJ. Gold makes no interest payments. Bonds are more exciting than gold in the one aspect you always are buying. The income stream, maturities and called bonds keep you working, plus a 16 year gold run is impressive, but not next to a 31 year bond run.

    The Original NJ Expat says:
    February 1, 2012 at 9:36 am
    Isn’t it funny how most serious investors know that the bond market is about to end it’s multi decade bull market but won’t take notice that gold has gone up for, what, 11 years now

  55. 3B says:

    #55 danxp: Can you tell us yet where you purchased?

  56. The Original NJ Expat says:

    JJ Gold had a great run. But remember gold in a pension fund or management account is never more than 5%.

    Not if you think creatively. Take a $50K loan from your 401K, buy gold. I recommend you also have $50K cash on hand, just in case you lose your job and have to pay it back as a balloon payment. I’m paying 4.5 per cent interest on my loan, but it all goes back into my 401K, so I’m actually stuffing my 401K with extra cash that I have no good purpose for anyway.

    Last spring when my credit card activity changed as I was finding good deals on Ebay for gold at spot, I received 0 Per cent credit card offers that I hadn’t seen in years. So I bought an extra $20K worth of Gold and Silver at 0 per cent courtesy of Chase, still haven’t paid for it yet, just making the minimum payments at 0 per cent.

  57. Mike says:

    49 Moose – I was waiting to see who would do the reseach first. You’re Hired!

  58. JJ says:

    Expat that sounds like a lot of work to make money. I sold a bunch of tickets on line to games and made good money but a lot of work. I think I like stocks and bonds as I click a little button on computer at work to buy and click a little button to sell. doesn;t make me a bad person. Also how do you know gold on ebay is even real?

    BTW the best place to get gold cheap is at a pawn shop week after christmas. Tons of awful gold pieces hocked that wont get picked up and can’t get sold. Very often sells for under value of gold itself as lender made money already and wants cash back quick to lend out again.

  59. danxp says:

    3b

    i think i’m still jinxing it cause we haven’t closed yet, but… i bought a fixer upper in glen rock… good location and high taxes, but i’m hoping to appeal… it’ll be 100k below assessed value…

    thanks everyone for the good advice… unfortunately, i wasn’t wise enough to listen… let’s see if i get a mortgage now…

  60. The Original NJ Expat says:

    JJ Expat that sounds like a lot of work to make money.

    It’s just point and click, just like buying bonds, futures, or options. Click, click on Fidelity’s site, $50K check comes withing a week, all loan repayments are through payroll deduction. I buy gold and silver mostly from a local dealer, Bostonbullion.com, One phone call and my price is locked in, send a check within 24 hours, and your order arrives fully insured in about 10-14 days. I will say Gold sucks for liquidity, you never want to “have” to sell. If I bought and sold in the same minute the loss would approach 10 per cent. I think most investors are just stunned by the spread and the premium so they look, and look, and look, but never buy. We’re spoiled by $1 stock commissions so buying physical just looks like a huge ripoff, but that’s the way the game is currently run.

  61. 3B says:

    #63 danxp: GR is s a really nice town, and yes high taxes hopefully you will win your appeal. I thought at one point you might be buying in the town of the Unicorns, And I think you made an excellent decesion not to. It pains me to say it as I really loved the town.

  62. One day closer to oblivion.

  63. gary says:

    freedy [62],

    Even if people want to own a home, they may not be able to, given the difficulty in getting financing for a mortgage, Dales says. The National Association of Realtors says many purchase contracts appear to be falling through for that reason.

    Many economists expect home prices to continue to fall this year and maybe into next year before stabilizing and then showing little or no appreciation for some time.

    I thought we stabilized in 2009? Or was that 2010? Oh wait, it was last year, right? And has any of these “experts” discussed in detail that the reason there’s less inventory is because people can’t sell because they can’t come to the closing table with a small fortune and their first born? In other words, they’re f*cking broke!

  64. xolepa says:

    (33)
    You know that’s a pipe dream. There are too many hands stretched wide open on real estate transactions. To deny them their fair share is heresy. And I mean it seriously. Too many mouths to feed along the way.

    You have to go straight to the top. Reach their legal dept or CFO dept. Pass numbers, make a formal presentation. Spend some time on it and you may be rewarded.

    I wish, personally, that BOA be screwed anyway they can. I hold accounts with them, primarily tenant security deposits. I am switching out one by one upon tenant turnover. It is impossible to switch fiduciaries mid-tenancy. The post 9-11 world has created that dilemma.

  65. danxp says:

    3b

    i would have definitely considered unicornville, but the steep decline of prices there was a bright red flag… oh and everyone on this board mocking it didn’t help either… oradell was a great option, but just too far to go to get anywhere…

    i plan on doing much renovation myself, but much of the work will be done by contractors… i’m hoping i can get done with everything in 2 months… yes, i know, it’ll probably be closer to 4 months…

    can anyone recommend any good contractors that are priced reasonably?

  66. JJ says:

    Expat, I like the sound of the gold play. However, stocks and junk bonds are about as far a stretch as I could explain to wifey. Starting 401K loans, credit card loans to buy gold on ebay for 10% more than it is worth regardless of how profitable trade is would cause my wife to either beat me with a stick or send me to the loony bin.

    I already have ventured into ticket scalping and now rental properties. I think next would be morgues, gun shops and brothels once I enter the slippery slope of shady businesses.

  67. yo says:

    I know a friend that lost his job 2 years ago.Found a seasonal job at lowes home center paying $11.00 an hour less than what he made in 1996 ,when he used to work for Rickel’s with benefits.Salaries are coming down all over.

  68. JJ says:

    “Even if people want to own a home, they may not be able to, given the difficulty in getting financing for a mortgage, Dales says. The National Association of Realtors says many purchase contracts appear to be falling through for that reason”

    Purchase contracts to buy homes contginent of other peoples money are not really purchase contracts.

    Imagine selling used car in driveway. Guy goes will give you 3k contingent on someone giving me the money. Next guy goes I will give you 2,900 cash. Who do you sell to?

  69. JJ says:

    Rickles, Pergaments all the great companies.

    yo says:
    February 1, 2012 at 10:41 am
    I know a friend that lost his job 2 years ago.Found a seasonal job at lowes home center paying $11.00 an hour less than what he made in 1996 ,when he used to work for Rickel’s with benefits.Salaries are coming down all over.

  70. 30 year realtor says:

    Regarding prequals for REO offers. The mortgage arm of BOA or Wells who is doing the prequal isn’t communicating with the asset disposition side you are negotiating with. There is no reason to fear they are doing a wallet biopsy and that your ability to pay more than you are offering will impact the negotiation. All they are trying to accomplish is to increase revenues by writing the mortgages on their own REO.

  71. Brian says:

    Sweet. So I get to refinance for free? What’s the catch?

    I imagine the tea party guys will kill the plan anyway.

    You know what’s going to kill me is I’ll probably kill myself fixing up the house and paying down the principle so much that by the time they enact this, I won’t be eligible again. Serves me right for actually paying back money I borrowed.

    67.freedy says:
    February 1, 2012 at 10:19 am
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/feb/1/obama-detail-broader-housing-refinance-plan/

  72. JJ says:

    Who/What:
    On Wednesday, February 1, Anheuser-Bush InBev (NYSE:BUD) will come to the NYSE to ask: “Who is the biggest fan?” The leading global brewer will host a Bud Light Fan Camp Tailgate outside the NYSE in Experience Square to celebrate Super Bowl XLVI and promote the launch of its new premium brand-Bud Light Platinum.

    During lunch, from 11:00 a.m. to 2 p.m. EST, Bud Light takes their interactive, competition- based road show Fan Camp to the middle of Wall St. (i.e. Experience Square). The Exchange community will show their team colors and have a lunch any football fan would crave, compliments of Bud Light, the official beer of Super Bowl XLVI. All menu items will feature Bud Light in the recipes. Fan Camp is Bud Light’s interactive team building challenge that tests football skills and knowledge and always provides a good time.

    The “Tailgate” will feature football games, like the cannon catch and precision pass, with football inflatables, product giveaways and live music.

    To celebrate this event, Anheuser-Bush InBev Chief Financial Officer, Felipe Dutra will ring the NYSE Closing Bell, kicking off the first ever Bud Light Platinum “Flash Pop” Happy Hour which will take place on the floor of the exchange from 4 p.m. to 7 p.m.

    When/Where:
    Wednesday, February 1, 2012
    NYSE Security Checkpoint at Exchange & Broad Streets
    11:00 a.m. – 2:00 p.m. Budweiser Fan Camp Tailgate (Experience Square)
    3:30 p.m. Media escorted into the building for bell ringing
    4:00 p.m. The Closing Bell rings
    4:00 p.m. – 7:00 p.m. Bud Light Platinum “Flash Pop” Happy Hour on the floor of the NYSE

  73. yo says:

    JJ,Do you know if gifting $13,000 to a kid is taxable to beneficiary?

  74. 3B says:

    #71 danxp: The steep decline in prices is reflective IMO of the huge increase in taxes, among other issues and I will leave it at that.

    Oradell will be impacted by whatever occurs in the land of the Unicorn, and which is why IMO they have been trying to distance themselves from the town.

    As far as contractors check out Charlie Springstead out of Oradell; does good work competitive prices. I have not used him in some years, but at least he used too. Good Luck with everything!!!

  75. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [79] Yo,

    Asking tax advice from JJ? I’m hurt.

  76. 3B says:

    #69 gary: They talk about hard to get financing. Really!!! if you cannot get an FHA loan than there is something really wrong.

  77. JJ says:

    OK I am convinced Bill Gross is completely insane. This months bond update starts with this mumbo jumbo.

    I don’t remember much of this life, and like Virginia Woolf, nothing of the herebefore. How then, could I expect to know of the hereafter? I know at least that we all exist at and of the moment and that we make up those moments as we go along. I became a grandfather for the first time a few months ago and proud son Jeff asked for some fatherly advice as to how to go about raising his baby daughter Caroline. “We all do it in our own way, Jeff, you’ll make it up as you go along,” I said. Parenting, and life itself, is one giant experiment. From those first infant steps, to adolescent peer testing, flying from and departing the parental nest, gene replication and family building of our own, maturity and acquiescence, aging, decay and inevitable death – we experiment as best we can and make it up as we go along.

    That death part though, oh where do we go after we have done all the making? There was another Jeff in our family, beloved brother-in-law Jeff Stubban who was as kind a man as there ever could be. Dying within three months of an initial diagnosis of pancreatic cancer, our family sobbed uncontrollably at his bedside as his breath, his spirit, his soul, departed almost on cue while a priest recited the rosary. Where had he gone, where is he now, what will become of him and all of us? Like many grieving families we look for signs of him and in turn for clues to our own destination. A lucky penny in the street, a random mention of his beloved New Orleans, an exterior resemblance of his shiny bald head in a mingling crowd. Where are you, Jeff? Tell us you are safe so that we might meet again.

    Having now matured to trust reason more than faith I offer not so much a resolution, but an alternative to the unanswerable question of Virginia Woolf and the departed souls of Jeff Stubban and billions of others. If we don’t meet again – up there – then perhaps we’ll meet once more – down here. After all, the one thing I know for sure is that we got here once – and because we did, we could do it again. Rest easy, dear Jeff, and welcome to this world, dear Caroline. We’ll all just have to make it up as we go along.

  78. 3B says:

    #71 danxp:oh and everyone on this board mocking it didn’t help either

    Just a little history on that. That started when a RE person posted on the blog that prices went up in town 26% in one year, from 2010 to 2011. This person became the poster child of cluelessness and the thought that so many others in town were believing the same thing.

  79. Shore Guy says:

    In the past couple of months, I have noticed a marked decline in house prices in the OBX. The area that interests us most is East of 12 North (north of the bridge going into Kitty Hawk). Many of the listings are now listed as “price reduced” and as a rule of thumb, houses appear to be a good 20% lower ask prices than last year. it is beginning to look like a bloodbath there.

    Listening to the radio yesterday, I heard people saying how bad it is for real estate as prices have dropped and are dropping. This is funny, as I never hear people saying, it is an awful year for electronics with computer and TV prices dropping, or “Consumers are up in arms as the price of milk continues to fall.”

  80. gary says:

    yo [73],

    Today is my six month anniversary in a six month right-to-hire gig. Guess what! No one from the recruiting side nor the client that I work for can give me an answer as to when or if this is going to go permanent. My point is that people still have no idea how far we’ve fallen nor how far we have yet to travel. In the immortal words of BC Bob, “It’s going to be a long walk home.”

  81. JJ says:

    “Listening to the radio yesterday, I heard people saying how bad it is for real estate as prices have dropped and are dropping”.

    That my friend is good news for real estate. Blood in the street is what you need to find a bottom. We are getting near or at bottom. YEA!!

  82. Shore Guy says:

    John,

    My feelings exactly. Since when is a consumer afraid of low prices?

  83. JJ says:

    Jacob Javitts Center, 1989, five am

    Shore Guy says:
    February 1, 2012 at 11:11 am
    John,

    My feelings exactly. Since when is a consumer afraid of low prices?

  84. Anon E. Moose says:

    Gary [69];

    Even if people want to own a home, they may not be able to, given the difficulty in getting financing for a mortgage, Dales says. The National Association of Realtors says many purchase contracts appear to be falling through for that reason.

    JJ [74] has a point, but the simple fact is that the avilabaility of credit is baked into the market price. If I (and others) had to pay cash for property, they’d be trading at 20% of current value (aside, consider what this would do to the $50,000 car market).

    But also consider that A) c’mon its the realtors talking, Jake; and B) Grim was right about this a week or two ago – if a buyer can’t get qualified, then they’re not a real buyer – must be ready, willing and ABLE to close the transaction. Ability to close today includes the ability to borrow. Sellers are still learning where they need to be to attract buyers who are able, rather than just the 2005 winner of the stupidest bidder auction.

  85. Brian says:

    They put the whole “temp to perm” business in a lot of the postings here. It’s bullsh1t. Totally dishonest. I translate it as “you will be nickeld and dimed forever for as long as you work here”. The bosses usually have no intention of hiring them permanently. We always talk about how fukd up it is here.

    When I left my old job I made it my life’s mission. I posted to at least 4 to 5 places a night. Smile, tell them how much you love it there then get the he11 out.

    86.gary says:
    February 1, 2012 at 11:00 am
    yo [73],

    Today is my six month anniversary in a six month right-to-hire gig. Guess what! No one from the recruiting side nor the client that I work for can give me an answer as to when or if this is going to go permanent. My point is that people still have no idea how far we’ve fallen nor how far we have yet to travel. In the immortal words of BC Bob, “It’s going to be a long walk home.”

  86. Shore Guy says:

    Temp to perm = temp to perm (underclass).

  87. JJ says:

    Unless you are able to sign a purchase agreement “non-contigent” upon getting a mortgage or “non-contingent” on the sale of a home it is already a weak offer.

    Think about it, homes have been falling every quarter for five years. Taking a weak slightly higher offer is risky. When if falls though and you have to relist home it may take you another three months to find buyer and then you have to sell house for 2% less. Plus three months carry cost. If every month you own house it falls in value you will accept a bit less for a guaranteed close.

    Anon E. Moose says:
    February 1, 2012 at 11:18 am
    Gary [69];

    Even if people want to own a home, they may not be able to, given the difficulty in getting financing for a mortgage, Dales says. The National Association of Realtors says many purchase contracts appear to be falling through for that reason.

    JJ [74] has a point, but the simple fact is that the avilabaility of credit is baked into the market price. If I (and others) had to pay cash for property, they’d be trading at 20% of current value (aside, consider what this would do to the $50,000 car market).

    But also consider that A) c’mon its the realtors talking, Jake; and B) Grim was right about this a week or two ago – if a buyer can’t get qualified, then they’re not a real buyer – must be ready, willing and ABLE to close the transaction. Ability to close today includes the ability to borrow. Sellers are still learning where they need to be to attract buyers who are able, rather than just the 2005 winner of the stupidest bidder auction.

  88. 3B says:

    #87 JJ Exactly what I have been saying.

  89. The Original NJ Expat says:

    JJ Expat, I like the sound of the gold play. However, stocks and junk bonds are about as far a stretch as I could explain to wifey. Starting 401K loans, credit card loans to buy gold on ebay for 10% more than it is worth regardless of how profitable trade is would cause my wife to either beat me with a stick or send me to the loony bin.

    There was a risk free gold play going on for the last couple years that I’m kicking myself for missing. So last Spring, right after the Silver peak, I’m buying left and right on eBay from nervous long time holders who thing the metals top is in. Great deals on gold, able to buy many ounces at $1600 and less, single coin here, two coins there, etc. Then I notice there is this guy selling literally pounds of gold right at spot. 2011 American 1 oz. Eagles right at spot. Makes no sense whatsoever. Just like Primary dealers in treasuries, there are Primary dealers in US Mint Gold Eagles. There’s only a handful and when they place an order they buy at tomorrow’s London PM Fix + 1.5% premium, IIRC. The whole market is almost entirely ounces, because the smaller coins sell at double the premium, 3% if I remember correctly. So for someone to sell at spot on eBay, there is absolutely no way possible to recoup the Mint’s premium plus eBay and PayPal fees. Then I notice all his auctions are “Pre-sales”, he takes your money today but doesn’t deliver for 30 days. I check his feedback and everyone seems happy but they are getting their coins more like 40 days after payment. Has to be a ponzi, but I don’t understand why no one gets it but me. I search all over the internet and can’t believe nobody is talking about this. The ponzi grows and grows, he’s selling hundreds of ounces a month and nobody’s complaining. Lasts until September and the Ponzi busts, he stops delivering. I find a site called bullionstacker.com where I get the full story. All his buyers were gladly buying into his ponzi for years, they were getting risk free income out of the deal, knowing eBay buyer protection would be the ultimate loser when the ponzi breaks. Here’s how the buyers were getting risk free income from the Ponzi:

    Buy and pay for an ounce of gold today at spot.
    Sell from their own stock an ounce of gold today at spot.
    Get 2% back on their reward credit cards.
    Get 2% back in something called eBay Bucks (credits used for future purposes).
    30-45 days later recieve an ounce of gold replacing the one you sold.

    They were making 4% risk free on every purchase. When the ponzi bubble burst, Ebay quietly made good on all the non-deliveries within the next 30 days and kept it out of the papers, about 10 million dollar loss for them which is peanuts. I even sent the story to a few a news outlets and nothing came out. The funny thing was, everybody who got stuck on their last purchases ( some guys were buying 10+ ounces a month) made out the best. They bought (and sold) at over $1800/ounce and were refunded $1800 while gold had dropped to $1600. They could take the money and re-buy their gold and make another profit. They were all whining, “Oh no, I don’t want the ponzi to end. Who will start up another one that we can do this again?” Ebay of course made some changes. If you sell bullion, you have to deliver in 5 days now. Also no more eBay bucks for bullion purchases. Funny thing is eBay never removed the guys accounts, he sold from 3 different ones, you can look at his feedback even today. The main one is called “goldeagles”, you can read his feedback today and see exactly when the bubble burst.

  90. gary says:

    Brian [91],

    I know. Actually, I knew six months ago. I should’ve known better.

  91. grim says:

    Unless you are able to sign a purchase agreement “non-contigent” upon getting a mortgage or “non-contingent” on the sale of a home it is already a weak offer.

    No lawyer worth his salt is going to let their client enter into a purchase agreement with a waived mortgage contingency. It has nothing to do with your ability to get a mortgage, it’s all about protecting your deposit should something unexpected take place before that commitment is in hand.

    Mortgage commitment is a defacto standard in most every sale, eliminating it doesn’t make an offer stronger. Hell, any agent worth their salt will tell their seller (that is considering the offer stronger without it) that the buyer’s attorney is just going to void the contract 2 seconds into attorney review and attach a rider that will almost certainly include it anyway (along with an appraisal contingency as well).

  92. Double Down says:

    Lewinsky is 38, not 50.

  93. Juice says:

    re: #89 – JJ – I get that joke, and frighteningly so….the rail yard area has changed however, but back in the late 80s it was a freak show over there, was always a fun area to drive by on the way to a club we used to play guess who is really a man.

  94. grim says:

    Non-contingent on sale I’ll agree with.

  95. Juice says:

    re # 87 – Quick rush out and buy before interest rates rise…..Oh wait rates won’t be rising until Bernake takes the brick off of the accelerator, so no rush after all.

    Question for the crowd with the brick on the accelerator until 2015 will the car run out of gas or will it drive off a cliff first?

  96. JJ says:

    My lawyer is abusive abrasive, mean and nasty and is six foot seven inch 300 hundred pounds. Most real estate lawyers are nancy bonds. At last closing the buy came in with an normal sized irish lawyer while I had a larged sized jewish lawyer, pretty sure I was getting my way. He even neogiated price lower day of sale.

    says:
    February 1, 2012 at 11:36 am
    Unless you are able to sign a purchase agreement “non-contigent” upon getting a mortgage or “non-contingent” on the sale of a home it is already a weak offer.

    No lawyer worth his salt is going to let their client enter into a purchase agreement with a waived mortgage contingency. It has nothing to do with your ability to get a mortgage, it’s all about protecting your deposit should something unexpected take place before that commitment is in hand.

    Mortgage commitment is a defacto standard in most every sale, eliminating it doesn’t make an offer stronger. Hell, any agent worth their salt will tell their seller (that is considering the offer stronger without it) that the buyer’s attorney is just going to void the contract 2 seconds into attorney review and attach a rider that will almost certainly include it anyway (along with an appraisal contingency as well).

  97. JJ says:

    Home values usually fall as rates rise so why buy now. I mean buy if it is a good investment but the average home owner only lives there 7 years. Purchase price more than rate on 30 year mortgage is more important

    Juice says:
    February 1, 2012 at 11:44 am
    re # 87 – Quick rush out and buy before interest rates rise…..Oh wait rates won’t be rising until Bernake takes the brick off of the accelerator, so no rush after all.

    Question for the crowd with the brick on the accelerator until 2015 will the car run out of gas or will it drive off a cliff first?

  98. Punch My Ticket says:

    JJ [25],

    But if I take no mortgage issue is what do I do with rental income. If I report it I am screwed as it is nearly all profit since I have no mortgage but if I don’t report it I might get in big trouble with IRS.

    Oh, the horror! Paying income tax on income.

  99. yo says:

    Nom,
    I know the gifter pays taxes above $13,000.Does the recipient pays taxes with in the limit of $13,000?

    Comrade Nom Deplume says:
    February 1, 2012 at 10:48 am
    [79] Yo,

    Asking tax advice from JJ? I’m hurt.

  100. 3B says:

    Any thoughts on this house? You cannot really see the front outside from the pictures. Listed at 385K, last sold for 365k in April of 04, taxes are 8k.

    http://www.njmls.com/listings/index.cfm?action=dsp.info&mlsnum=1203528&dayssince=&countysearch=false

  101. JJ says:

    It is a horror. As the tax code is unfair. I will pay taxes on that income at almost 50% while the blue collar guys gets it at 15%. Unfair. Should be like cap gains.

    Punch My Ticket says:
    February 1, 2012 at 1:25 pm
    JJ [25],

    But if I take no mortgage issue is what do I do with rental income. If I report it I am screwed as it is nearly all profit since I have no mortgage but if I don’t report it I might get in big trouble with IRS.

    Oh, the horror! Paying income tax on income.

  102. chicagofinance says:

    no
    “transfers of a present interest up to $13,000 per person per year (as of 2011) are not subject to the tax”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_tax_in_the_United_States

    yo says:
    February 1, 2012 at 1:26 pm
    Nom,
    I know the gifter pays taxes above $13,000.Does the recipient pays taxes with in the limit of $13,000?

    Comrade Nom Deplume says:
    February 1, 2012 at 10:48 am
    [79] Yo,

    Asking tax advice from JJ? I’m hurt.

  103. Heya i’m for the primary time here. I came across this board and I in finding It truly useful & it helped me out much. I am hoping to give something back and aid others like you aided me.

  104. Happy Renter says:

    [20] “Is saying that housing prices continue to decline a bit like saying: Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead”

    The Generalissimo has more upside potential than the housing market at this point.

  105. Generalissimo Franco probably also smells better.

  106. Marilyn says:

    Hey there went meat

    First I checked out your humans e-wall video and had to laugh, yes thats my neighbors!!!

    Now I have a bigger question for you:

    Alot of my stupid moronic so called people that I converse with on a daily basic who are too lazy to move their ass are RUNNING now for this great HGC diet. Especially since the great one (Dr. OZ) says its ok!!! Now how stupid is this? THey are eating 500 calories a day, taking snake oil and losing weight!! Yes you read that right 500 calories a day! BINGO!!!! Of course you idiots, 500 calories your gonna lose something. But these morons will lose money, muscle , water and mess their bodies up more so when they go back to the buffet and eat normal ……………… fatter and a higher bodyfat due to all that great muscle loss. WHY NOT pick up a damn weight and do some exercise!!! THis whole scam has got me so mad!!! I mean every day now its HGC this , HCG is a wonder diet, ohh I lose 1 lbs a day. I mean are people that stupid???

    What do you think???????
    You see I bodybuild, I am 128 lbs, bodyfat of 18 percent now going down for cut, female , 5 feet, 5 inch and getting more ripped by the minute. I do a mentzer/yates style high intesity/low volume workout. I follow the old strongman type workout but not a crossfit too ballistic I basically powerlift but diet like a bodybuilder and bust my butt!!! I think this HGC is a scam!! What do you think?????

  107. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [108] chifi

    Incomplete answer. First, donees don’t pay tax on gifts (but see appreciation, below) The donor will pay if over $13,000 but he amount is per person, so a couple can give $26,000. There is also the lifetime exclusion to consider, probably not an issue to Yo.

    If the gift is appreciated property, the donee gets the donor’s basis and there may be tax due on appreciation when sold.

  108. JJ says:

    Just give $12,999 to everyone on this board today and your problems are solved.

    Comrade Nom Deplume says:
    February 1, 2012 at 2:53 pm
    [108] chifi

    Incomplete answer. First, donees don’t pay tax on gifts (but see appreciation, below) The donor will pay if over $13,000 but he amount is per person, so a couple can give $26,000. There is also the lifetime exclusion to consider, probably not an issue to Yo.

    If the gift is appreciated property, the donee gets the donor’s basis and there may be tax due on appreciation when sold.

  109. Brian says:

    Thank you. I’m going to try that.

    28.Shadow of John says:
    February 1, 2012 at 9:01 am
    “National Diaper Bank”

    Who needs a diaper bank? Diapers are for nancy boys to be. When I was little my mother used to go out back and get moss to wrap me in. I got sick and tired of beatles so within six months I was toilet traind. at 9 months I was using the urinal. I used moss for my kids and they adapted just fine. No need to wash moss, just apply some mirical grow and let it replenish itself each day.

  110. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [114] Nom –If the gift is appreciated property, the donee gets the donor’s basis and there may be tax due on appreciation when sold.

    I heard this mentioned on a financial radio show this weekend. They proposed gifting your unemployed college grandchild stock, have them sell it and pay the tax on the gains at their low rate and then gift the balance back to grandpa? Can you really do that?

  111. Anon E. Moose says:

    ONJEx [116];

    If its taxed at the Cap Gains rate, what diff does it make?

  112. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [117] Moose, yeah I don’t know. Maybe they were talking short term cap gains, but I don’t remember them saying that.

  113. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [116] expat,

    Not if IRS can show no donative intent.

    [117] moose,

    Not necessarily.

  114. Anon E. Moose says:

    Saw the stupidest thing today – an ad pitch that went: Don’t Use Tax Software! People who hire real tax accountants get bigger refunds!

    1) People who ear more (on average) have higher refunds, and are more likely to be able to afford/reap the benefit of professional assistance in complex returns; and

    2) People who spend $500 at H&R Block to get some temporary worker to do data entry for them into the same software you can buy at home for $50 are stupid.

  115. Anon E. Moose says:

    3B [106];

    Effing realtors. What’s with the midget ghost (OK, little kid) in the door? Get him the hell out of there and take the show again. Are pixels that expensive?

    I guess that house is so ugly they built a duck blind to hide it! More likely, there’s something uglier on the other side of that duck blind that the seller didn’t want to look at day after day, and the realtor certainly doesn’t want to show you in the pictures.

  116. JJ says:

    Being from Bronx my childhood memories involve my first street fight, my first stolen bike, my first stolen skate board, my first stolen basketball. But it was alright back then. The person you stole it from stole it themselves and you were lucky to hold on to it for two weeks before someone stole if from you. We used to watch Good Times and go only three kids and a Dad those mofos are rich. Once we were getting mugged which was a bad thing as we have no money. We went Crocidile Dundee as our knife was like a damm carving knife. Home boy had some nancy boy 7 inch switch blade. We could have butched a cow with our knife, home boy goes don’t go all Dillenger on me. Sadly we did not stick him. Little knife vs. long knife and him in a tshirt. Damm that stomach looked ripe for the taking. Like all Tom Selleck in an Inocent Man. I also had a rusty machette I found hidden once. Never got to pull it on anyone but my friends told me being hacked by a huge rusty machette sounds really really bad. Real Gettho stuff.

    Brian says:
    February 1, 2012 at 3:28 pm
    Thank you. I’m going to try that.

    28.Shadow of John says:
    February 1, 2012 at 9:01 am
    “National Diaper Bank”

    Who needs a diaper bank? Diapers are for nancy boys to be. When I was little my mother used to go out back and get moss to wrap me in. I got sick and tired of beatles so within six months I was toilet traind. at 9 months I was using the urinal. I used moss for my kids and they adapted just fine. No need to wash moss, just apply some mirical grow and let it replenish itself each day.

  117. 3B says:

    #21 I will find out!!

  118. JJ says:

    A day after yields on long-dated muni bonds set a host of record lows, short-dated muni bonds got in on the act. Average yields on top-rated 5-year munis fell three basis points to 0.68% Wednesday, setting a new all-time low.

    To think in December 2010 when Whitney was yacking away you could find munis that mature in 2016 that was yielding 5% today same bond is yielding .68. Crazy.

  119. Shore Guy says:

    Hey, Leon, lets make it Christmas 2012, instead:

    The United States and NATO will end their combat mission in Afghanistan next year, transitioning to a training role, Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta said.

    “Hopefully, by mid to the latter part of 2013, we’ll be able to make a transition from a combat role to a training, advise and assist role,” Panetta told reporters traveling with him to Belgium. The information was confirmed to CNN by a defense official.

  120. Shore Guy says:

    “had some nancy boy 7 inch switch blade”

    I forgot, John actually does say “nancy boy.” Too funny.

  121. Dan in debt says:

    Who can possibly think of housing or politics or the economy when………..

    SNOOKI MIGHT BE PREGNANT!!!!!!!!!!!

  122. PGtips says:

    Late 90’s pricing? Hahaha you will be lucky to get that. I thought that was the bottom but now it is early 80’s pricing. 90’s economy was strong enough to clear housing market and provide a bottom but I don’t think 2012 economy is good enough. Nothing works: inflation results in stagflation and even with 0% rates income cannot meet asking prices while taxes are getting higher. Even big capital can’t do much as more rentals translate to lower profit margin.

  123. JJ says:

    When you are a manly man you get to say such things.

    Shore Guy says:
    February 1, 2012 at 4:24 pm
    “had some nancy boy 7 inch switch blade”

    I forgot, John actually does say “nancy boy.” Too funny.

  124. Jill says:

    3b #106: I would worry about flooding back there, since the dead-end part of Magnolia backs up to the brook. This is the same reservation I had about you looking at that Bergen Avenue house in WT. Check it out on Google Maps….I can tell you that Broadway from Lake Street to Lawrence Street was flooded during the hurricane:

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/117537738_Hillsdale_and_Westwood_homes_evacuated_due_to_flooding.html

    …and this Magnolia Avenue house is right smack there.

    Here’s Broadway and Lake St. intersection after Irene:

    http://westwood-washington.patch.com/articles/reader-photos-of-irenes-wrath#photo-7562483

    Just delete everything from the hash sign to the end to see all the reader-uploaded photos.

  125. 3b says:

    131 jill the listing says it is in a 500 year flood zone and apparently the owner has not had any flooding issues. Assuming that is true. Also a poster yesterday provided a fema map for flood areas from what I coul tell the area where the house is is not a flood area. Although the map was not the easiest tto read. I will research more. Thanks for the info.

  126. yo says:

    Nom,
    That is what I thought.It makes it very easy for Parents to gift a Kid buying a house $52,000 if the closing is somewhere in January.Gift $26,000 in December and another $26,000 in January.

  127. joyce says:

    Nom,
    Can you briefly tell me one example of a benefit generated by gifting from say a parent to their child? The $13,000 gifted is still part of the gift givers income on which they paid income tax…

  128. It is not long ago when I discussed that topic with just the same outcome. http://www.samsung1080phdtv.net/

  129. The Original NJ Expat says:

    [138] Joyce Nom, Can you briefly tell me one example of a benefit generated by gifting from say a parent to their child? The $13,000 gifted is still part of the gift givers income on which they paid income tax…

    Not stepping in from Nom, but one advantage is that over time you circumvent estate taxes, I think. We’d all like to think that parents won’t go at the same time, so all the wealth transfers to the other parent on the death of the first and you make plans from there, but car accidents, etc. can nix that plan for good. My wife’s parents send us $500 per month, every month for years and years now. My wife has one sister and she gets the same. We don’t need the money, but we bank it anyway.

  130. joyce says:

    140

    thank you

Comments are closed.