How much higher can NYC rents go?

From the NY Times:

The City of Sky-High Rent

GARY L. MALIN, the president of Citi Habitats, the city’s largest rental brokerage firm, has seen the real estate market at its giddiest heights and its deepest despair. There should be little that surprises him.

But when Mr. Malin’s company was preparing its latest analysis of the rental market, he was taken aback.

In March, the firm found, the average rent in Manhattan — now $3,418 a month — surpassed the all-time high set in the real estate frenzy of 2007.

“Right now, landlords can go for pie in the sky — why not?” he said. “But when are people going to say enough is enough and look at other options?”

The last time rents shot up in a similar fashion, they were tied to a strong economy, low unemployment and booming business on Wall Street.

But this spring, Manhattan rental prices seem to be divorced from the larger economic picture. While the city has added jobs in recent months and growth in businesses like technology has helped make up for losses in the financial sector, much of country is still struggling.

That disconnect has only increased resentment levels among many tenants, already reeling from a year or more of rent increases.

There is evidence that rising rents are driving perspective renters into the sales market. But for those who find buying a home in New York City is not an option — whether because of bad credit, tougher lending standards or lack of a down payment — the choices are limited and often unappealing.

The uncoupling of the national economy from New York rents is not typical, said Jonathan J. Miller, the president of the appraisal firm Miller Samuel. “When you see rents rising, it is usually reflective of a strong economy,” he said. “That is not the case now.”

Instead, he said, prices are being driven up by a tight credit market that forces people to stay in the rental market and limits new construction.

Some renters feeling the squeeze have resigned themselves to paying more for less.

Rental averages are up in every category, with one-bedrooms rising the most, by 6.5 percent over the past year, to $2,747, according to the Citi Habitats report. Studios rose 3.6 percent, to $1,953; two-bedrooms climbed by 6.1 percent, to $3,865; and three-bedrooms rose 4 percent, to $5,107.

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90 Responses to How much higher can NYC rents go?

  1. grim says:

    Been a while since we saw one of these … BFF!

    http://www.fdic.gov/news/news/press/2012/pr12043.html

    Fort Lee Federal Savings Bank, FSB, Fort Lee, New Jersey, was closed today by the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, which appointed the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) as receiver. To protect the depositors, the FDIC entered into a purchase and assumption agreement with Alma Bank, Astoria, New York, to assume all of the deposits of Fort Lee Federal Savings Bank, FSB.

    The FDIC estimates that the cost to the Deposit Insurance Fund (DIF) will be $14.0 million. Compared to other alternatives, Alma Bank’s acquisition was the least costly resolution for the FDIC’s DIF. Fort Lee Federal Savings Bank, FSB is the seventeenth FDIC-insured institution to fail in the nation this year, and the first in New Jersey. The last FDIC-insured institution closed in the state was First State Bank, Cranford, on October 14, 2011.

  2. gary says:

    Now, this house hasn’t been touched in over two decades. It’s worth about $275,000. It sold for $485,000 in May, 2005. This is f*cking painful to the sellers and why we’re entering a new form of quagmire that’s going to linger for years:

    http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/35-Stanley-Ct-North-Haledon-NJ-07508/39746634_zpid/

  3. mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  4. gary says:

    A townhouse in Wyckoff, currently at 849K, sold at 625K back in 1996. That’s just under 2% appreciation YOY. They just chopped 50K off the price. Tick… tick… meh… and all that bullsh1t:

    http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/175-Brewster-Rd-Wyckoff-NJ-07481/38065830_zpid/

  5. mike says:

    Gary how sad paying a half million for that crap box in 05 It’s got 10k taxes to boot

  6. gary says:

    Frankilin Lakes! Ooofa! Tax reassessment went from 555K in 2010 to 440K in 2011. Imagine that! The taxes still went up anyway but stand at $6,667 as of last year. That’s human. Paying taxes on this same house at 10K plus in another town is just absurd:

    http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/316-Lenapi-Dr-Franklin-Lakes-NJ-07417/37913875_zpid/

  7. gary says:

    Mike [7],

    Even during the most violent storm, the water level will eventually recede and find it’s natural level. Ya can’t get blood from a stone. No job + lower pay + no opportunity + no benefits = no buyer. The trend line is called a trend line for a reason.

  8. 3b says:

    #8 gary: Taxes in Franklin Lakes are lower than taxes in River Edge. That is insane!!! But it is a lesson to residents in any town, do not spend yourself into oblivion.

  9. Mikeinwaiting says:

    3b the way I see it the second tier towns spent like crazy to get to perceived first tier status. The first tier (Franklin Lakes) did not have to do anything, now second tier (River Edge) have put themselves in a tax situation that will crush them. IMHO it is all bullsh*t tier crap, I live here ,my kid goes to school there. The only thing that counts is your child’s effort in school even here in Vernon you can excel and receive an excellent education. I will give people that Newark might not work out so well but in a town like Wayne not exactly a blue ribbon district a smart hard working student will do fine.

  10. chicagofinance says:

    This feature in the WSH Opinion section is truly excellent. CA is extreme, but it is not a far stretch to substitute the USA for CA and Obama for Jerry Brown. New Jersey is in the same boat, but the difference is that Christie has been in charge for the last 2 years, so there is an adult in the room.

    WSJ
    THE WEEKEND INTERVIEW
    April 20, 2012, 7:19 p.m. ET

    Joel Kotkin: The Great California Exodus A leading U.S. demographer and ‘Truman Democrat’ talks about what is driving the middle class out of the Golden State

    By ALLYSIA FINLEY

    ‘California is God’s best moment,” says Joel Kotkin. “It’s the best place in the world to live.” Or at least it used to be.

    Mr. Kotkin, one of the nation’s premier demographers, left his native New York City in 1971 to enroll at the University of California, Berkeley. The state was a far-out paradise for hipsters who had grown up listening to the Mamas & the Papas’ iconic “California Dreamin'” and the Beach Boys’ “California Girls.” But it also attracted young, ambitious people “who had a lot of dreams, wanted to build big companies.” Think Intel, Apple and Hewlett-Packard.

    Now, however, the Golden State’s fastest-growing entity is government and its biggest product is red tape. The first thing that comes to many American minds when you mention California isn’t Hollywood or tanned girls on a beach, but Greece. Many progressives in California take that as a compliment since Greeks are ostensibly happier. But as Mr. Kotkin notes, Californians are increasingly pursuing happiness elsewhere.

    Nearly four million more people have left the Golden State in the last two decades than have come from other states. This is a sharp reversal from the 1980s, when 100,000 more Americans were settling in California each year than were leaving. According to Mr. Kotkin, most of those leaving are between the ages of 5 and 14 or 34 to 45. In other words, young families.

    The scruffy-looking urban studies professor at Chapman University in Orange, Calif., has been studying and writing on demographic and geographic trends for 30 years. Part of California’s dysfunction, he says, stems from state and local government restrictions on development. These policies have artificially limited housing supply and put a premium on real estate in coastal regions.

    “Basically, if you don’t own a piece of Facebook or Google and you haven’t robbed a bank and don’t have rich parents, then your chances of being able to buy a house or raise a family in the Bay Area or in most of coastal California is pretty weak,” says Mr. Kotkin.

    While many middle-class families have moved inland, those regions don’t have the same allure or amenities as the coast. People might as well move to Nevada or Texas, where housing and everything else is cheaper and there’s no income tax.

    And things will only get worse in the coming years as Democratic Gov. Jerry Brown and his green cadre implement their “smart growth” plans to cram the proletariat into high-density housing. “What I find reprehensible beyond belief is that the people pushing [high-density housing] themselves live in single-family homes and often drive very fancy cars, but want everyone else to live like my grandmother did in Brownsville in Brooklyn in the 1920s,” Mr. Kotkin declares.

    “The new regime”—his name for progressive apparatchiks who run California’s government—”wants to destroy the essential reason why people move to California in order to protect their own lifestyles.”

    Housing is merely one front of what he calls the “progressive war on the middle class.” Another is the cap-and-trade law AB32, which will raise the cost of energy and drive out manufacturing jobs without making even a dent in global carbon emissions. Then there are the renewable portfolio standards, which mandate that a third of the state’s energy come from renewable sources like wind and the sun by 2020. California’s electricity prices are already 50% higher than the national average.

    Oh, and don’t forget the $100 billion bullet train. Mr. Kotkin calls the runaway-cost train “classic California.” “Where [Brown] with the state going bankrupt is even thinking about an expenditure like this is beyond comprehension. When the schools are falling apart, when the roads are falling apart, the bridges are unsafe, the state economy is in free fall. We’re still doing much worse than the rest of the country, we’ve got this growing permanent welfare class, and high-speed rail is going to solve this?”

    Mr. Kotkin describes himself as an old-fashioned Truman Democrat. In fact, he voted for Mr. Brown—who previously served as governor, secretary of state and attorney general—because he believed Mr. Brown “was interesting and thought outside the box.”

    But “Jerry’s been a big disappointment,” Mr. Kotkin says. “I’ve known Jerry for 35 years, and he’s smart, but he just can’t seem to be a paradigm breaker. And of course, it’s because he really believes in this green stuff.”

    In the governor’s dreams, green jobs will replace all of the “tangible jobs” that the state’s losing in agriculture, manufacturing, warehousing and construction. But “green energy doesn’t create enough energy!” Mr. Kotkin exclaims. “And it drives up the price of energy, which then drives out other things.” Notwithstanding all of the subsidies the state lavishes on renewables, green jobs only make up about 2% of California’s private-sector work force—no more than they do in Texas.

    Of course, there are plenty of jobs to be had in energy, just not the type the new California regime wants. An estimated 25 billion barrels of oil are sitting untapped in the vast Monterey and Bakersfield shale deposits. “You see the great tragedy of California is that we have all this oil and gas, we won’t use it,” Mr. Kotkin says. “We have the richest farm land in the world, and we’re trying to strangle it.” He’s referring to how water restrictions aimed at protecting the delta smelt fish are endangering Central Valley farmers.

    Meanwhile, taxes are harming the private economy. According to the Tax Foundation, California has the 48th-worst business tax climate. Its income tax is steeply progressive. Millionaires pay a top rate of 10.3%, the third-highest in the country. But middle-class workers—those who earn more than $48,000—pay a top rate of 9.3%, which is higher than what millionaires pay in 47 states.

    And Democrats want to raise taxes even more. Mind you, the November ballot initiative that Mr. Brown is spearheading would primarily hit those whom Democrats call “millionaires” (i.e., people who make more than $250,000 a year). Some Republicans have warned that it will cause a millionaire march out of the state, but Mr. Kotkin says that “people who are at the very high end of the food chain, they’re still going to be in Napa. They’re still going to be in Silicon Valley. They’re still going to be in West L.A.”

    That said, “It’s really going to hit the small business owners and the young family that’s trying to accumulate enough to raise a family, maybe send their kids to private school. It’ll kick them in the teeth.”

    A worker in Wichita might not consider those earning $250,000 a year middle class, but “if you’re a guy working for a Silicon Valley company and you’re married and you’re thinking about having your first kid, and your family makes 250-k a year, you can’t buy a closet in the Bay Area,” Mr. Kotkin says. “But for 250-k a year, you can live pretty damn well in Salt Lake City. And you might be able to send your kids to public schools and own a three-bedroom, four-bath house.”

    According to Mr. Kotkin, these upwardly mobile families are fleeing in droves. As a result, California is turning into a two-and-a-half-class society. On top are the “entrenched incumbents” who inherited their wealth or came to California early and made their money. Then there’s a shrunken middle class of public employees and, miles below, a permanent welfare class. As it stands today, about 40% of Californians don’t pay any income tax and a quarter are on Medicaid.

    It’s “a very scary political dynamic,” he says. “One day somebody’s going to put on the ballot, let’s take every penny over $100,000 a year, and you’ll get it through because there’s no real restraint. What you’ve done by exempting people from paying taxes is that they feel no responsibility. That’s certainly a big part of it.

    And the welfare recipients, he emphasizes, “aren’t leaving. Why would they? They get much better benefits in California or New York than if they go to Texas. In Texas the expectation is that people work.”

    California used to be more like Texas—a jobs magnet. What happened? For one, says the demographer, Californians are now voting more based on social issues and less on fiscal ones than they did when Ronald Reagan was governor 40 years ago. Environmentalists are also more powerful than they used to be. And Mr. Brown facilitated the public-union takeover of the statehouse by allowing state workers to collectively bargain during his first stint as governor in 1977.

    Mr. Kotkin also notes that demographic changes are playing a role. As progressive policies drive out moderate and conservative members of the middle class, California’s politics become even more left-wing. It’s a classic case of natural selection, and increasingly the only ones fit to survive in California are the very rich and those who rely on government spending. In a nutshell, “the state is run for the very rich, the very poor, and the public employees.”

    So if California’s no longer the Golden land of opportunity for middle-class dreamers, what is?

    Mr. Kotkin lists four “growth corridors”: the Gulf Coast, the Great Plains, the Intermountain West, and the Southeast. All of these regions have lower costs of living, lower taxes, relatively relaxed regulatory environments, and critical natural resources such as oil and natural gas.

    Take Salt Lake City. “Almost all of the major tech companies have moved stuff to Salt Lake City.” That includes Twitter, Adobe, eBay and Oracle.

    Then there’s Texas, which is on a mission to steal California’s tech hegemony. Apple just announced that it’s building a $304 million campus and adding 3,600 jobs in Austin. Facebook established operations there last year, and eBay plans to add 1,000 new jobs there too.

    Even Hollywood is doing more of its filming on the Gulf Coast. “New Orleans is supposedly going to pass New York as the second-largest film center. They have great incentives, and New Orleans is the best bargain for urban living in the United States. It’s got great food, great music, and it’s inexpensive.”

    What about the Midwest and the Rust Belt? Can they recover from their manufacturing losses?

    “What those areas have is they’ve got a good work ethic,” Mr. Kotkin says. “There’s an established skill base for industry. They’re very affordable, and they’ve got some nice places to live. Indianapolis has become a very nice city.” He concedes that such places will have a hard time eclipsing California or Texas because they’re not as well endowed by nature. But as the Golden State is proving, natural endowments do not guarantee permanent prosperity.

    Ms. Finley is the assistant editor of OpinionJournal.com and a Journal editorial page writer.

  11. chicagofinance says:

    GREAT SOUND BITE!

    Housing is merely one front of what he calls the “progressive war on the middle class.”

  12. gary says:

    chicagofinance,

    Great article and spot on. People will get it when they wake up one day and have difficulty recognizing their own backyard.

  13. The middle class will be dead within 10 years…victims of our own stupidity and denial, even as TPTB wage open war against us.

  14. Another day in hell.

  15. Juice Box says:

    Re: 17 – Jersey City or Branchburg?

  16. Roy G Biv says:

    Radio show Saturday mornings 10 to noon. WOR-AM 710.
    Eye on Real Estate, from a Realtor’s point of view obviously.

    http://www.wor710.com/pages/11483867.php

  17. scribe says:

    Nom,

    That can with the conical top – a “cone top” from the 1930’s or 40’s.

    After prohibition, they weren’t sure if people would buy beer in cans. So the breweries didn’t change their bottling equipment right away. That’s why the cone tops had bottle-like spouts with bottle caps. Rust is not original. If anything, “if it’s rusted, it can be trusted.” In the 1970’s, people were counterfeiting cans! The older cans are “indoor” or “dumper” – dug out of garbage dumps. There was also a dumper can on eBay that sold for $7500 – first of its kind ever discovered.

    Anybody on this blog – if you find any cans in your walls – don’t toss it until you talk to me.

  18. scribe says:

    I meant – rust is not an issue – means it’s “all original.” Not restored.

  19. scribe says:

    Mike,

    The “everything else” of beer can collecting is called “brewerania.”

    Shoot me some pix – rozrr@verizon.net

    I don’t know that part of things, but I’ll see if I can match your lamps to anything on eBay. They have a big section for the “everything else” from breweries.

    What brands? is a big question.

  20. Anon E. Moose says:

    File under: Dreaming away in Jax, FLA

    Cities With Least Realistic Home Prices

    Median listing price: $184,775
    Median sales price: $121,600
    Difference: -34%

  21. gary says:

    Moose [24],

    I’d rather be laying dead on the corner of 148th Street and Amsterdam Avenue than alive in Jacksonville, Florida.

  22. caljn says:

    Re: California. Classic WSJ claptrap, citing some progressive initiative for the states ills while forgetting the nation is in recession.
    If you haven’t noticed, the middle class is evaporating because of 30 years of Reagan tax policy, not because of some train project. I live in West LA and if people want to leave, go right ahead. While this place is paradise it is too darn crowded.
    And TX will never replace CA as the nations leader, with their inherent anti intellectualism and race to the bottom on their social issues.
    (Those Apple jobs referred to are merely back office. No one is closing up shop and high talin’ it to flat, dusty TX. )

    California is the home to Silicon Valley precisely for it’s (until Reagan) fabulous public university system and infrastructure investment that drove it to the top of the nations heap, until Jarvis and his “tax revolt” put a stop to it.

    But I assure you, California will be fine.

  23. Anon E. Moose says:

    Caljn [26];

    California will be fine.

    Remain calm. All is well.

    …forgetting the nation is in recession.

    Does the nationwide recession explain why it has the 48th-worst business tax climate? Is it not a nationwide recession in 47 other states? What nation are those 47 states part of that California itsn’t?

  24. LoveNJ says:

    Sold two houses in Jax, FL and company covered expense, moving etc.
    June 2006, 278k sold, zillow 2012 at 173k, -38%
    July 2006, 517k sold, zillow 2012 at 342k, -34%

    Moved to NJ and rented for 5 years, bought two again. let’s see in a few years.
    Tempted to buy in a couple houses in Jax, just too far and too earlier to retire.

    24.Anon E. Moose says:
    April 21, 2012 at 1:55 pm
    File under: Dreaming away in Jax, FLA

    Cities With Least Realistic Home Prices

    Median listing price: $184,775
    Median sales price: $121,600
    Difference: -34%

  25. moose (28)-

    You’re talking to a brainwashed idiot. Just another bleeding heart Santa Monica liberal…until he has to call the cops to remove the bum sleeping in his alley.

  26. CA was showing signs of Third World when I left in 1992. Can’t imagine what it’s like now. I’m glad I’m gone from there.

  27. gryffindor says:

    Re today’s article – Our NYC rent got jacked up. $700 within two years. As much as I hate moving, I hated paying the management company of our previous apartment even more. When asked to negotiate, we were told the economy had recovered so take it or leave it. That $700 goes toward our RDX instead, a much better use of our money than paying those leeches.

  28. AG says:

    Gary,

    4,

    I was waiting for Laura Ingels to appear on the porch. What happened? Where the f_ck is North Haledon anyway? Sounds like a chemical plant to me.

  29. caljn says:

    30
    Stay classy meathead.

  30. AG says:

    Gary,

    8,

    The only thing I like about that house is the musket over the fireplace in picture #3.

  31. stan says:

    Hey all. Still lurking and enjoying the show. I only used to come out and crush the kannekt trolls, but they are a beaten lot.

    Does anyone have any experience with sewer easements? Saw a place and wanted the skinny on them.

    Thx.

  32. AG says:

    “The middle class will be dead within 10 years…victims of our own stupidity and denial, even as TPTB wage open war against us.”

    This is an accurate statement that most folks have yet to come to grips with. The timing is debatable. 10 years is optimistic.

  33. AG says:

    Caljn,

    I agree with most of what you say. Reagan was a nightmare yet most Republicans claim him as their hero. Following the crash of 87 Reagan passed executive over Presidential group on Financial Markets. That opened the door to todays market manipulation. Reagan might have had good intentions but one round to the thigh took care of that.

  34. AG says:

    32,

    Gryff,

    The only people buying homes near me are NY expats fleeing a horrible situation out on the island. We have it bad in NJ no doubt but NY has reached defcon 1.

  35. Njescapee says:

    Seeing a lot of Cali license plates here in the Keys lately.

  36. AG says:

    40,

    Escapee,

    You are in a fine place no doubt but the rest of your state is turning to sh_t. Those old b_stards you call an economy will go up in smoke when we turn into Greece. Better invest in Pine trees for Pine boxes.

  37. Njescapee says:

    Al, all is well here. Befriended a commercial fisherman based in AC nj but stays here for the winter. His daily catch averages 140 lbs yellowtail. We have that covered. :)

  38. AG says:

    Escapee,

    Yellowtail in FL? Thats about 70lbs per fish. My trips to the canyon would yield a minimum of 90 lbs, 3 per. I couldnt give enough steak away. On another topic. We need another inlet on the north end of the Barnegat. The f-gs are playing games with drainage basins and fertilizer. Heres the real solution and the rational.

    Nitrogen run off into the bay is a huge problem but it is actually beneficial in the ocean. Bunker, the main prey fish, actually feed off the plankton that the runoff provides for. They play a critical role in ocean water clarity. Ive been out there during the migration and they are 1ft to 60ft deep for miles. Bass, blues, whales, and shark nipping at them the whole way. The problem in the bay is water turnover time. Rutgers estimated 3 month turnover time for Barnegat Bay water. Back in the 1800’s we had an additional inlet at Cranberry opposite the Toms River. We need another inlet somewhere north of the Rt 37 bridge. Until we get that done we are pissing in the wind.

  39. Njescapee says:

    Al, Yellowtail snapper is a smaller fish.

  40. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    TOON, TOON!

  41. AG says:

    Escapee,

    Didnt mean to offend you. Different local = different nicknames for fish. That being said. Jersey still has the best fishing in the world. Thats why I stay here.

  42. Njescapee says:

    I hear you. No offense taken.

  43. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Fabius,

    Objects in the rear view mirror are closer than they appear.

  44. chicagofinance says:

    Are you serious? The level of your hubris is astonishing. To be clear, I have voted for the democratic candidate in every election I have been eligible. But to your point, we are in (serious) anemic recovery from a massive recession. Despite this obvious concern, we have close minded zealots. If you do not see the broad parallel to the U.S. under Obama, you are an apologist……and throughout world history, empires fall with your attitude…..

    caljn says:
    April 21, 2012 at 3:59 pm
    Re: California. Classic WSJ claptrap, citing some progressive initiative for the states ills while forgetting the nation is in recession.
    If you haven’t noticed, the middle class is evaporating because of 30 years of Reagan tax policy, not because of some train project. I live in West LA and if people want to leave, go right ahead. While this place is paradise it is too darn crowded.
    And TX will never replace CA as the nations leader, with their inherent anti intellectualism and race to the bottom on their social issues.
    (Those Apple jobs referred to are merely back office. No one is closing up shop and high talin’ it to flat, dusty TX. )

    California is the home to Silicon Valley precisely for it’s (until Reagan) fabulous public university system and infrastructure investment that drove it to the top of the nations heap, until Jarvis and his “tax revolt” put a stop to it.

    But I assure you, California will be fine.

  45. Shore Guy says:

    “We need another inlet somewhere north of the Rt 37 bridge. Until we get that done we are pissing in the wind”

    Even if a Cat 5 came through and opened up an inlet, the people whose property washed away would persuade congress to allocate the money to put the sand back.

  46. chicagofinance says:

    To restate, there is a time and place to be a progressive, but it is not right now…..

  47. Shore Guy says:

    “I have voted for the democratic candidate in every election I have been eligible. ”

    After spending four years in the Peoples’ Republic of Ithaca, what were the odds?

  48. Shore Guy says:

    Just kidding around Chifi. The last good president we had was Clinton. I don’t know if that speaks well of him or extra ill of the two since him.

  49. Shore Guy says:

    Chifi,

    Railroads, ports, etc. , those are investments. Most of the “investments” I see liberals touting are just gussied-up welfare programs that add to the debt and do little to move the country forward. Individuals may beneft from them but not the nation.

  50. Mike says:

    Scribe 21 Both lamps are Budweiser and a Michelob horn (not sure what to call it) enclosed in a clear plastic or glass cover that has a light inside. The Budweiser lamp looks similar to an old kerosene lamp. There’s also what looks like a large gold coin about 10″ with the Eagle and a bulb over that which is made for hanging. Also some other little things. Try to get some pictures over to you.

  51. t c m says:

    #24 –

    Yeah, yeah, Blame it on Reagan and sweep it under the rug. You’re a walking cliche of what’s wrong with this this country. Go right ahead, keep on voting for the Brown’s of the world if you enjoy sleepwalking into a propeller. Dope.

    “…….If you haven’t noticed, the middle class is evaporating because of 30 years of Reagan tax policy, …….”

  52. 3b says:

    #11 Mike: Could not have said it better myself.

  53. t c m says:

    #12-

    “…….Apple just announced that it’s building a $304 million campus and adding 3,600 jobs in Austin. Facebook established operations there last year, and eBay plans to add 1,000 new jobs there too……”

    #24 Caljn says:
    “………….(Those Apple jobs referred to are merely back office. No one is closing up shop and high talin’ it to flat, dusty TX. )….”

    This statement and you’re idiotic response just proves the author right. Why wouldn’t CA want these 5000 or so jobs? Why wouldn’t they want the $304MM campus – and all the jobs that would be created to service these jobs? Why not? These are the middle class people that the author is talking about, and this is just an example – how can you be so stupid and snobby to say that these people and jobs are disposable?

    “……..Nearly four million more people have left the Golden State in the last two decades than have come from other states. …………..”

    Sounds like a lot of people are “high talin’ it out”…, but no worries for California, they’re just stupid “anti-intellectuals” anyway according to caljn.

  54. 3b says:

    #51 Except for the repeal of Glass Stegall.

  55. Jill says:

    Those of you who intend to vote for Romney in November: What do you think he will do that’s better? Do you even KNOW? Will he do whatever is necessary to implement the Paul Ryan Ayn Randoid “austerity” budget that relies on smoke and mirrors, gives the military a blank check in perpetuity, and will substantially reduce the quality of life for many people (and probably consign my own father to his grave, given that he is not able to pay for his cancer treatment without Medicare)? Will you be getting the moderate Massachusetts governor or the Teabagger lunatic you’ve seen during the primaries? Do you honestly believe he’s interested in making YOUR life and those of your children better? Or is it just a question of you have a plate of calves’ liver and a plate of dogs**t in front of you, and since you don’t like the calves liver you’re going to try the dogs**t?

  56. Toon will be in Champions League…and will overtake the Wankers for 3rd.

    Enjoy the play-in round of CL, glute.

  57. t c m says:

    #58 – Jill –

    “……..Do you honestly believe he’s interested in making YOUR life and those of your children better?……”

    Who is ?

  58. Richard says:

    I dont think its about taxes, its crime.

    Its changing times that the Manhattan/Brooklyn are so popular and NJ suburbs are cheap. A few decades ago most middle class families quit the cities for the suburbs. Now its fashionable to grow up in the city. All we need is a solid uptick in crime and people will come screaming back.

    Or is Manhattan forever cleaned up?

  59. chicagofinance says:

    Jill: who said Romney is a solution? I took the same tact a couple of years ago when the calculus was Corzine is a hack…kick him out….I don’t think the state made a bad choice……would we want Christie as a friggin’ visionary? No….but 2012 is not about being a visionary; 2012 is about being adults and showing respect to our children…..

    Jill says:
    April 22, 2012 at 11:02 am
    Those of you who intend to vote for Romney in November: What do you think he will do that’s better? Do you even KNOW?

  60. Confused in NJ says:

    The last decent American President was Eisenhower. All who followed participated in the demise of this country.

  61. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    In my experience, which is considerable due to my age and academic c.v., modern presidents aren’t so much good or bad as they are lucky or unlucky.

  62. Happy Renter says:

    [58] Jill, you sorta have it right. Except Obama is the dogsh*t and Romney is the calf’s liver.

  63. Pierre says:

    Olala…fois c’est magnifique!!

  64. caljn says:

    56

    You must be a writer for Faux, with your adept, convenient mis-interpretation of my words.

    Of course CA would love to keep any new jobs but the WSJ implied these companies were abandoning high tax, business unfriendly CA for TX, which I pointed out will never happen, in that CA has a tradition of placing a priority on education for it’s citizens that enabled an environment to create these magnificient companies. (That is, until 1978 and Prop 13 strangeled the states finances…the result we’re living thru today.)The quality of the workforce in Silicon Valley is unparalled, thus the expansion to cheaper markets for “back office” jobs. They’re being middle class is not relevant.

    To further support, I made the admittedly stereoptypical charge that Texans are anti-intellectual, not those citizens leaving California.
    But stereotypes exist for a reason, though I commend Texans on electing Gov. Richards a few years back. Perry can’t shine her shoes.

    And yes, it is my opinion that 30 years of Reagan tax policy that favors the most wealthy has had a detrimental effect on our economy. The so called job creators are not creating jobs and haven’t since W’s massive give away. Conversely, the middle class will spend any extra dollar that have and immediately because they are drowning. A bit simplistic but you get the point.

    Re: post 54, I would advise against calling people names, it indicates a lack of control and diminishes credibility.

  65. t c m says:

    #67 – caljn
    “…….I made the admittedly stereoptypical charge that Texans are anti-intellectual..”

    plus:

    “……I would advise against calling people names, it indicates a lack of control and diminishes credibility….”

    Why don’t you take your own advice first before giving it out – I guess your a typical liberal, making rules for everyone else and exempting yourself.

  66. cobbler says:

    Richard [61]
    I fully agree that the huge change in NYC crime perception was THE key factor in tripling the price differential between say UWS and “better” NJ suburbs in the last 20 years. Corollary to this – the next NYC mayor in Dinkins’ mold could result in NJ RE boom…

  67. gryffindor says:

    #37 AG – I’m not sure what town you’re in where the expat’s are fleeing, but I believe it. We also thought about leaving and looked at a bunch of properties along the gold coast last fall, but instead found a cheaper building for now and are staying.

  68. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [69] TCM

    Waste of time, mon frere. IMHO, folks like caljn are either (a) hard-wired to argue that way so pointing out the fallacies is like talking to a wall, or (b) fully aware of what you are pointing out yet will never admit it, and insist that you’re the one engaged in suspect rhetorical technique.

    There’s always another caljn or seif or schabadoo or fabius (who, to his credit, doesn’t argue that way as a rule), and I have given up trying to disabuse them of their versions of reality. Life is a better teacher than I’ll ever be.

  69. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Here’s an interesting tidbit from a want-ad in Phil Hodgen’s blog (he is one of the leading US attorneys helping people expatriate):

    “We do international tax only. We are exceptionally busy. (No new clients until further notice. Does that tell you something? We are looking for tax lawyer talent, too.) . . . ”

    His small 3 attorney firm is so busy that they can’t handle new clients. And yes, that tells me something. Tells me its time to get going on the Nompound project.

    BTW, if caljn is reading this, I am making all of this up. All is well.

  70. caljn says:

    69

    This is what you choose to focus on from my post?
    Ah yes, the time honored right wing tradition of attacking personally rather then addressing the substance of the argument. (He’s Kenyan!, He’s racist!, He uses a teleprompter!, He’s not American! He’s a socialist!…)

    Alright then I’ll play…can you distinguish and differentiate between comments regarding a group of people in the abstract vs me, specifically?

    Enjoy your evening in any case.

  71. Mikeinwaiting says:

    Nom 73 ” Life is a better teacher than I’ll ever be.” Amen, I have given up trying and now also let time do the heavy lifting.

  72. chicagofinance says:

    I hate to pop your balloon, but CA has Silicon Valley for one reason ONLY…..Stanford…that’s it…..it is the same reason that Boston has Rte 128…..Harvard and MIT. The rest of it is window dressing. I speak from knowledge because New York is coming back at these guys full throttle…..and NY will win, because people are more competitive and willing to work harder than a populace that chose where to live due to weather and proximity to wine and skiing…..and it’s NYC (this comment would be known as hubris).
    http://www.cornell.edu/nyc/

    caljn says:
    April 22, 2012 at 4:48 pm
    Of course CA would love to keep any new jobs but the WSJ implied these companies were abandoning high tax, business unfriendly CA for TX, which I pointed out will never happen, in that CA has a tradition of placing a priority on education for it’s citizens that enabled an environment to create these magnificient companies. (That is, until 1978 and Prop 13 strangeled the states finances…the result we’re living thru today.)The quality of the workforce in Silicon Valley is unparalled, thus the expansion to cheaper markets for “back office” jobs. They’re being middle class is not relevant.

  73. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [78] chifi

    Give it a rest. You wouldn’t tell a dog to stop barking up trees at the squirrels, and if you were getting annoyed at the noise, you didn’t try to reason with the dog, did you?

  74. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [78] chifi

    I’d rather live closer to wine and skiing. But since its easier to ship the wine, I’ll choose skiing.

  75. joyce says:

    nom & caljn

    give it a rest yourselves… ‘my team is better than your team!’

    its really pathetic

  76. Shore Guy says:

    My votes for the decent presidents of the 20th Century:

    TR
    Truman
    Eisenhower
    The first 24-30 months of Nixon’s first term served ther nation very well
    Ford
    Reagan
    Bush the Elder
    Clinton
    I also think that Kennedy handled the Cuban Missile Crisis as well as any president has ever handled a crisis of any kind and had Nixon been inthe White House we would have ended up in a bloodbath with the USSR. He also did well with using federal resources to prompt the southern states to begin integrating schools. Beyond these things, he was not a very good president.

    My top three of this group in no particular order:

    TR
    Ike
    RR

  77. joyce says:

    Coolige was decent

  78. Shore Guy says:

    Next to Harding, anyone would look good.

  79. Shore Guy says:

    Nationwide wind map. After a couple of glasses of wine, it is almost as interesting as the “Matrix rain”:

    http://hint.fm/wind/

  80. chicagofinance says:

    Shouldn’t there be more wind around DC, and also Chicago (by reputation)?

    Shore Guy says:
    April 22, 2012 at 11:12 pm
    Nationwide wind map. After a couple of glasses of wine, it is almost as interesting as the “Matrix rain”:

  81. chicagofinance says:

    Shore Guy says:
    April 22, 2012 at 10:55 pm
    My votes for the decent presidents of the 20th Century:

    hmmm…
    Bush the Elder
    ….must of been the vision thing….

    Bedtime for Bonzo?
    Reagan
    I think time has allowed a whitewashing of history…..he was always rather vacuous, but more frightenly, his last year in office he certainly could have been a few french fries short of a happy meal….

  82. joyce says:

    next to all during the 20th century, coolige was pretty good

  83. Shore Guy says:

    Chifi,

    GHW Bush because of the way he handled the collapse of the Iron Crutain, the way he handled the Iraq/Kuwait issue, and the fact that when faced with keeping a campaign promise or doing what was right for the country (“Read my lips…”) he did what was the right thing for the nation instead of protecting his political backside.

    We have to agree to disagree on RR. I had the pleasure of serving him and I have the deepest respect for him.

  84. Shore Guy says:

    “next to all during the 20th century, coolige was pretty good”

    When it comes to Coolidge, it is something like: Compared to a slow painful death (insert malady here) looks pretty good.

  85. joyce says:

    92
    why the animosity towards Calvin?

  86. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [82] joyce,

    I’m perfectly content to wait for the final score.

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