Shocking News: Banks Screw Borrowers

From Bloomberg:

Look Who’s Pushing Homeowners Off the Foreclosure Cliff

One of the more confounding aspects of the U.S. housing crisis has been the reluctance of lenders to do more to assist troubled borrowers. After all, when homes go into foreclosure, banks lose money.

Now it turns out some lenders haven’t merely been unhelpful; their actions have pushed some borrowers over the foreclosure cliff. Lenders have been imposing exorbitant insurance policies on homeowners whose regular coverage lapses or is deemed insufficient. The policies, standard homeowner’s insurance or extra coverage for wind damage, say, for Florida residents, typically cost five to 10 times what owners were previously paying, tipping many into foreclosure.

The situation has caught the attention of state regulators and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which is considering rules to help homeowners avoid unwarranted “force- placed insurance.” The U.S. ought to go further and limit commissions, fine any company that knowingly overcharges a homeowner and require banks to seek competitive bids for force- placed insurance policies. Because insurance is not regulated at the federal level, states also need to play a stronger role in bringing down rates.

All mortgages require homeowners to maintain insurance on their property. Most mortgages also allow the lender to purchase insurance for the home and “force-place” it if a policy lapses or is deemed insufficient. These standard provisions are meant to protect the lender’s collateral — the property — if a calamity occurs.

Here’s how it generally works: Banks and their mortgage servicers strike arrangements — often exclusive — with insurance companies in which the banks agree to buy high-priced policies on behalf of homeowners whose coverage has lapsed. The bank advances the premium to the insurer, and the insurer pays the bank a commission, which is priced into the premium. (Insurers say the commissions compensate banks for expenses like “advancing premiums, billing and collections.”) The homeowner is then billed for the premium, commissions and all.

It’s a lucrative business. Premiums on force-placed insurance exceeded $5.5 billion in 2010, according to the Center for Economic Justice, a group that advocates on behalf of low- income consumers. An investigation by Benjamin Lawsky, who heads New York State’s Department of Financial Services, has found nearly 15 percent of the premiums flow back to the banks.

It doesn’t end there. Lenders often get an additional cut of the profits by reinsuring the force-placed policy through the bank’s insurance subsidiary. That puts the lender in the conflicted position of requiring insurance to protect its collateral but with a financial incentive to never pay out a claim.

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81 Responses to Shocking News: Banks Screw Borrowers

  1. grim says:

    Shocking News: Borrowers Screw Banks

    From CNBC:

    Short Sales: Necessary Compromise or Scamming the System?

    But is that the real purpose of a short sale? Some say the banks are to blame for the housing crash and mass home-price depreciation, and therefore they should pay for all of our losses. Others blame borrowers for playing loose with credit and buying far more than they could afford, using their homes as ATMs and turning a blind eye to the fact that home prices can go down as well as up. Are short sales the compromise? The bank loses money and the owner loses the home without the credit hit? Everybody loses?

    I was about to buy that compromise, until Hirsh told me about some of his clients. They are short-selling their homes and turning right back around and buying new homes — and here’s the clincher: they’re getting mortgages. One is even building a new home!

    These borrowers have the wherewithal to make their monthly payments on their underwater homes but choose not to, because they know they won’t make their equity back any time soon. They also see that they can now buy more home for less money, given how low home prices have fallen. They can get in at the bottom, rather than pay what amounts to rent on their current homes. In other words, they’re in a position to make more money by walking away from their debt and letting their lender eat the loss.

    I’m no bank apologist, but is that fair? You tell me.

  2. grim says:

    From the LA Times:

    Rents soar as foreclosure victims, young workers seek housing

    A nation still struggling to clear up one housing debacle has run smack into another — soaring rents.

    The foreclosure mess has pushed millions of former homeowners with tarnished credit into a competitive apartment market across the U.S. Add fresh demand from young workers, few new units and tight standards for home loans, and the result is rental sticker shock not seen in years.

    Rents are surging from New York to Los Angeles. The average monthly U.S. rent for apartments hit $1,008 in the first quarter, pushing past the all-time high set in the third quarter of 2008, according to the data firm RealFacts. USC’s Lusk Center for Real Estate forecasts a 10% jump in Los Angeles County rents over the next two years. In certain markets, it is now cheaper to own a home than rent.

    Menachem Krinsky of Hancock Park recalls how in late 2008 every street seemed ornamented with “for rent” signs when he first moved to Los Angeles from the East Coast. Back then, his landlord was so desperate to keep him as a tenant that he slashed his rent of about $2,000 by $800 after Krinsky’s first roommate bailed on the lease.

    These days, however, Krinsky’s search for a one-bedroom apartment costing around $1,500 is shaping up to be a major headache.

    “I am looking for something clean and new, and unless you want to spend a fortune, it’s hard,” said Krinsky, a 22-year-old art director and graphic designer.

    Rob Magnotta, a real estate agent, recently listed his two-bedroom Irvine condominium for rent on Craigslist for $2,300. He had six applicants within 24 hours, including one who wrote a poignant letter about losing a home to foreclosure.

    “It was almost too easy,” said Magnotta, who chose another renter. “I know the rental market was strong. But until you are actually renting the place, I think you are surprised it is that strong.”

    A big driver of rent increases has been demand from young workers who are striking out on their own after doubling up with family members during the worst of the economic downturn.

    Alaia Williams, 27, recently moved out of her mother’s Inglewood apartment to be nearer to her job at a Santa Monica tech start-up. She and a roommate are splitting the $1,400 rent on a two-bedroom apartment in Palms.

  3. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  4. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Jersey City Taking Aim at Vacancies

    A historic Episcopalian church left to be claimed by squatters; an abandoned house where police discovered a dead body on the front porch; a vacant brownstone overrun with weeds after its overseer was arrested on bank fraud.

    As this gritty former manufacturing town tries to reinvent itself, officials have been wrestling with a stubborn phenomenon of urban blight: hundreds of abandoned buildings. About 950 of the roughly 40,000 properties in this waterfront city were classified as abandoned in a recent count, a number that city officials attribute to the housing-market collapse.

    “Almost every block in this city has a vacant building on it,” said Mark Redfield, assistant director for housing code enforcement in Jersey City. “It’s really a horrible thing for society.”

    Jersey City officials fanned out across the city in March to flag vacant buildings and add them to a growing registry—part of an aggressive use of the Garden State’s abandoned properties law. One of the toughest in the nation, the law allows local governments to set up abandoned property registries, require owners to join them and compel scofflaw landlords to do something with their buildings and pay their property taxes.

    If property owners don’t respond, the city can take them to court to acquire the properties to sell them or tear them down for redevelopment.

    At least 36 other municipalities have undertaken similar efforts, but few with the zeal of Jersey City, said Diane Sterner, executive director of the Housing and Community Development Network of New Jersey, a nonprofit. Irvington, Newark, Orange and Paterson have also been assertive practitioners of the law’s powers, she said.

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  6. Painhrtz - I ain't dead yet says:

    grim # 1 as predicted on here. No moral hazard for the banks suddenly the borrowers have to take the high road. give me a break. no honor among thieves and there shouldn’t be when dealing with our corrupt banking system

  7. Mike says:

    Grim 5 Any records kept on flipping here in NJ? Probably Not

  8. Jason says:

    re:(2) Soaring rents.

    Simply a matter of supply and demand. As long as someone is willing to pay those rents, landlords will continue to jack up prices. Look no further than the absolute absurd prices many colleges are charging tuition and board these days.

  9. Confused in NJ says:

    Interesting, Americans too broke to go Bankrupt?

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/americans-too-broke-bankrupt-105500347.html

  10. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [10] Jason,

    Been thinking of trying to get a multi in a college town for just that reason. But I would most likely get a sfh and rent to a professor first.

  11. JJ says:

    I am 100% for short sales. The Homeowner who lets say purchased a home for 500K that is now worth 300K and wants to sell and have 200K forgiving should find the old guy in florida who sold him the house and get his 200K back. The bank has nothing to do with this. The bank never sold you the house. My old neighbors who retired early and sold their POS splits in 2006 are laughing their butts off. Meanwhile three our of four of homes sold at peak went under. The cop who retired at 43 who sold a 70×100 split for 600K is not asked to give back the 600K why should the bank?

  12. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [11] confused,

    BAPCPA really increased the onus on attorneys. Also, in Chp 13 cases, the fee is capped unless the court approves a waiver.

    How heavy is the onus? The comments suggested a trick or two that I would be barred from advising.

  13. 3B says:

    #12 Speaking of college. Just spoke to someone yesterday, apparently Fordham Univ is just 60k a year now. It is expected that for the kids Senior year it will rose to about 72k a year!!!! They decided not to have their child attend. 72k a year!!!!!

    Just saying.

  14. gary says:

    We went to a few open houses in Washington Twp. and Woodcliff Lake yesterday. The foot traffic was LIGHT! For a beautiful Sunday in prime selling season, we weren’t exactly standing in any lines. Of the 5 houses that we visited, only 2 of them had someone other than us looking at the house. The one house in Washington Twp. was a bi-level (not crazy about them), but very nice condition, all buttoned-up and nothing needed to move in. The realtor at this one was very nice! We privately discussed the possibility of making an offer but the only thing holding me back is that the property isn’t much bigger than the house I have now. I’m looking for slightly bigger foot print and just a little more green space between neighbors.

    The other house that we looked at in Washington Twp. was hosted by a smarmy, snooty, b1tch realtor and is just so fitting considering my “love” for most realtors. When we stated that we’d buy on a contingency to sell my current home, she stated, “Oh, we don’t do contingencies… especially here in Bergen County. Maybe that’s how it’s done in Passaic County, but not here.” I told her I don’t need the proceeds from my house for a down payment, I simply don’t want to carry two mortgages like an 1diot. Her whole demeanor was condescending and pretentious. I said to the family, “let’s get out of here.” I’m sending an email to the broker/owner of the home base where this b1tch works. It’s RE/MAX, btw.

    The one house in Woodcliff Lake was a CHC and an absolute dump. It needs to be gutted… plain and simple. The asking price was 629K, I’ll give them 400K to end their misery. The other one in WL was a big CHC, very nice, not much of a yard and sloped, too near to the Parkway (noise). It’s too much house but for those who are looking for the “keeping with the Jones’ look”, this ones for you. It has the “classic” open foyer and that McMansion feel to it. This realtor wasn’t jumping for joy when told that I’m selling as well but was very cordial. Carrying two mortgages even for a month is a death sentence. I’m not doing it.

    My take on contingencies: Sellers, you don’t have a choice. If I say I’m going to sell my house for market value to buy your house, with a 800+ FICO and plenty of skin, you need to belly up and take it. You don’t dictate… Mr. Buyer does. It’s 2012 and you’re in quicksand. Got it? Like I said, they weren’t exactly storming the doors with checkbooks in hand. Some of these houses we spent 30 minutes at and no one showed up. What does that tell you on a sunny Sunday in May?

  15. JJ says:

    Fordham is the new “in” school. Everybody wants to go and they dont give out hardly any financial aid. SJU on other hand is giving money off if you kid graduated a catholic HS, parent went to SJU and/or kid agrees to spend a few hours a week volunteering. A, B average student can go half price to SJU with these little perks. I know one kid who got offered SJU for 13K but said Mom all the cool kids go to Fordham.

    3B says:
    May 7, 2012 at 9:20 am

    #12 Speaking of college. Just spoke to someone yesterday, apparently Fordham Univ is just 60k a year now. It is expected that for the kids Senior year it will rose to about 72k a year!!!! They decided not to have their child attend. 72k a year!!!!!

    Just saying

  16. jcer says:

    JJ what you don’t realize is banks are always the biggest suckers, they get pushed around non stop and usually get stuck taking everyone’s garbage. The real change is now mere mortals are getting in on the action vs. corporations. My father keeps saying it, banks don’t understand real estate, they don’t know how to value it, how to sell it, how to extract maximum value or what the potential outcome is of them taking back the property. An asset manager I will not name actually bought out a deal where there was no tenant and a loan of 48 million on a building originally valued at 72 million that’s worth 50 million on a good day if it had a tenant(Good luck in this market!). Now you let me know how this sounds, the asset manager paid 14 to buy 50% of the deal from one group of partners before it imploded after the tenant moved out the other group of partners offered to take a buyout of 6 million because they intended to default if they couldn’t get principal reduction on their loan of at least 13 million(because the property makes no return and they have to pay out while it’s not occupied). So now the asset manager has 20 million in hard capital against an asset worth less than 50 million with debt of 48 million? They basically paid 20 million for nothing, they were fleeced by the first set of partners in a big way but at least at that point the liability wasn’t there, after this they literally paid the other partners to eliminate what they were looking at as a liability and there upside is long term the value recovering but cash flow is not really a possibility right now. Banks and their ilk either are inept at best or really don’t give two craps about their client money. I’ve seen it over and over again in commercial RE, they’ll take most of the risk for minimal reward.

  17. 3B says:

    #17 JJ: It is not worth the money period, but you are right in that there are certain schools du jour, and perhaps Fordham is in that category now. I don’t know, but any one who borrows to pay that kind of money is insane. Nobody says Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Fordham in the same breath.

    Funny my friends who went there back in the 80’s commuted by bus, they used to wait until the kids from Roosevelt HS across the street went home, before they got on the bus.

  18. 3B says:

    #16 What does that tell you on a sunny Sunday in May?

    It tells me that it is just like the last few years, there is some early buzz (especially with the mild winter), and than it fizzles out.

  19. JJ says:

    Fordham was a dump then. I saw a basketball game there in early 80s vs. SJU gym was tiny and small. Other than the the few bars right next to campus you could not walk more than a block from campus without getting killed. And I am talking a group of six foot two inch men. I have to say Fordham turned it around in an amazing way. 30 years ago no one from LI would got to Fordham over SJU now they would pay double to do it.
    3B says:
    May 7, 2012 at 9:41 am

    #17 JJ: It is not worth the money period, but you are right in that there are certain schools du jour, and perhaps Fordham is in that category now. I don’t know, but any one who borrows to pay that kind of money is insane. Nobody says Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Fordham in the same breath.

    Funny my friends who went there back in the 80′s commuted by bus, they used to wait until the kids from Roosevelt HS across the street went home, before they got on th

  20. Anon E. Moose says:

    JJ [13];

    The Homeowner who lets say purchased a home for 500K that is now worth 300K and wants to sell and have 200K forgiving should find the old guy in florida who sold him the house and get his 200K back. The bank has nothing to do with this. The bank never sold you the house. My old neighbors who retired early and sold their POS splits in 2006 are laughing their butts off. Meanwhile three our of four of homes sold at peak went under. The cop who retired at 43 who sold a 70×100 split for 600K is not asked to give back the 600K why should the bank?

    +1

    Repeat after me: “The Locust Generation”.

  21. A.West says:

    During my 8 minute drive to work this morning, I was listening to Bloomberg Radio and the star of “Flip this House” told me that if I went to his upcoming seminar in our region, I could be making $10,000 to $40,000 per flip with no money down all in my spare time! In NJ!

  22. 3B says:

    #21 JJ: Agreed, but still nowhere near worth the money or anything close to it. If one can write the check and they want to, fine. But to go into massive debt to pay for it is absolutely insane.

  23. Dan in debt says:

    JJ,

    Therte is nothing cool about Fordham. Even Snooki and the Situation can get in there with their SATs.

  24. JJ says:

    It is actually very hard to get into Fordham and expensive. With demand comes less scholarships. I think it is insane to pay those prices for just Fordham. I am just reporting on what the 17-19 year old mind is thinking is cool. A mind that is barely formed and drunk and high half the time.

    Dan in debt says:
    May 7, 2012 at 10:48 am

    JJ,

    Therte is nothing cool about Fordham. Even Snooki and the Situation can get in there with their SATs.

  25. Libtard in Union says:

    My poor Civic is showing growing pains. Over the last year or so, she was starting to overheat a bit on long drives. Especially when it was warm out and/or I had the AC on. Well I brought her in this morning as she was starting to overheat on twenty minute drives. I figured the radiator was shot after 17 years. Well, I was right. She was pretty much out of coolant and I need a new radiator. Then I got the wonderful news that the axle boot was busted and had no grease on it, I needed two new belts (which I already new, but didn’t care) and there were a few other minor things. I can’t believe I’m going to sink a little over a grand into my 17-year old Civic, but the engine continues to purr like a kitten (original clutch), she still gets nearly 40MPG and there is no rust. I hope to make her Gator Jr.’s beater. Only 9 years to go. Anyone want to place bets that she makes it?

  26. Jill says:

    3b #20: You may be on to something. My sister is a realtor in the Chapel Hill area and she says that while March was insane, April was nothing and May isn’t shaping up to be much better. Down there, the exurbs like Pittsboro (which is actually quite nice) aren’t moving at all. If you’re near downtown Durham or downtown CH, stuff is moving. But in the newer developments that are a few miles further out? Nothing.

  27. Nicholas says:

    Libtard,

    The axle boot on the older cars is a very easy repair. They are probably quoting you a price on a full boot which requires disassembling the entire wheel and sliding a new one on. I would suggest that you roll up your sleeves and install a split-boot which takes about 20 minutes, some axle grease, and a couple of stainless steel clamps.

    It will not last as long as a full boot but the split boot is much easier and cheaper to install (can be done by someone untrained in mechanics too). The deal with the split-boot is that it has a large cut on one side that allows it to go over the axle without removing the wheel. You then take these clamps and secure it in place. There is a potential for the grease to leak out and dirt to get in there but just keep an eye on it about once a year and you should be fine. A full boot, which would last 15 more years, could be replaced by split-boots, which last 3-5 years, for much less cost.

    Do you intend to drive the car for another 15 years? I didn’t think so. Go with the split boot, install it yourself, save big $$$.

  28. Nicholas says:

    Libtard,

    How much radiator fluid is it leaking per week/month. Have you refilled the radiator recently? Have you used any stop leak on the radiator ever? The radiators in the early Honda’s and Mazda’s were undersized for the engine and they had a tendancy to overheat. American’s liked big engines so they upped the engines but not the rest of the car. The shocks usually gave out very early and radiators usually overheated thus causing gaps where coolant leaked.

    You usually can get away with using some stop-leak in your radiator at least once. Using it more than once will cause the cooling ability of the radiator to be shot. In many of the Mazda’s and Honda’s from that era I would have friends just cap off the radiator with water during the summer and then flush and fill with antifreeze/water in the winter. This would be a weekly occurance of checking radiator levels. It was just part of regular mainenance to me.

    You might get another year or two out of your radiator if you drop some stop-leak into it. Although there are many places for your radiator to leak so you should be sure it isn’t your water pump or hoses before you drop in the stop-leak.

  29. Brian says:

    30 –

    My truck’s radiator has a slow leak. If you can find it, JB Weld works too. I keep a bottle of the 50/50 premix coolant in the truck and top it off as needed.

    My AC on my old truck had a leak too. I used to just top it off with one of those fill kits from Advanced auto parts you can get for like $20. I prefer the one with the built in guage. Kept it working all summer if I topped it off in the spring.

    I once repaired a power steering hose with a piece of chewing gum and a roll of duct tape on a trip back from Albany. I couldn’t find where the leak was so I ased my gf at the time to look under the hood while I cranked the wheel back and forth. Squirted power steering fluid all over her….she was not happy :(

    Pretty funny though.

  30. chicagofinance says:

    JJ: Fordham is garbage. If your kid wants to go and doesn’t make the cut, just offer to pay full freight and they will certainly take your checks. They are living off the fact that Michael Kay and Mike Breen went there. Stupid blue-collar Yankee/Knicks fans from NJ/LI are impressed their dumb kids can get into this wannabe safety school for safety schools…..

    JJ says:
    May 7, 2012 at 10:52 am
    It is actually very hard to get into Fordham and expensive. With demand comes less scholarships. I think it is insane to pay those prices for just Fordham. I am just reporting on what the 17-19 year old mind is thinking is cool. A mind that is barely formed and drunk and high half the time.

    Dan in debt says:
    May 7, 2012 at 10:48 am
    JJ, Therte is nothing cool about Fordham. Even Snooki and the Situation can get in there with their SATs.

  31. Libtard in Union says:

    Thanks for the car advice fellas. I plan to drive this car forever. So far, the only part that is not original besides standard maintenance stuff, is the alternator. I need to get her back into the garage for safe keeping. She’s been in one for the majority of the last 8 years, but has been parked in my driveway for the last 12 months. It’s amazing what a difference this makes. The garage has been a mess with all of the work I’m doing on my house, but I think I’m too the point where I can park her in there now.

  32. JJ says:

    http://www.autospies.com/news/Is-This-the-World-Highest-Mileage-Honda-21202/

    But this car is living proof that with proper care most any car can log incredible miles. The owner has amassed an amazing 939,000+ miles on this Civic and is still on the original engine and transmission.

    The owner spills his secret to such longevity by admitting to an oil change every 2500 miles for a total of 375 oil changes.

    939K is record for a Honda.

  33. JJ says:

    As paltry Treasury rates continue to undercut yields across fixed-income markets, average yields on U.S. junk bonds – typically the most remunerative, if risk-laden, bond investments around – have just fallen to their lowest level on record.

    Average junk-bond yields hit 6.95% at the end of last week, matching the all-time low set in 2005, according to the Bank of America Merrill Lynch High-Yield Master II Index. This comes as the average risk premium – the difference between yields on junk bonds and those of comparable Treasuries – remains at 5.94 percentage points, about a full percentage point above its historical average, meaning Treasury yields are the main culprit for such low all-in yields.

  34. Brian says:

    33 –
    Don’t forget to change that timing belt…..

  35. brain (31)-

    Cue up jj.

    “Squirted power steering fluid all over her….she was not happy :(“

  36. Libtard in Union says:

    Brian 33 (done at 90K)

  37. JJ says:

    Why do I get a feeling this junk thing will end ugly. Not for folks like me, but for new issues in last few months with light covents, non-secured, low coupon payment bonds. Lending to risky companies with no collateral makes sense at 11%, makes no sense at 6.95%. You are taking on huge risk for less than 7%. Traditionally a junk bond has no interest rate risk. Why cause a junk bond is based on health of economy, rising rates mean economy is healthy less chance of default. At 6.95% you have default and interest rate risk. Two risks.

    Check out Bill Gross Total Return Fund, amazing turn around. I have a feeling stock vol will pick up sooon. Eventually people cant keep buying bonds that earn zero. People forget a ten year treasury will drop 9% in value if interest rates rise 1% once see see rates rising bonds will crash and money will flow to stocks and houses.

  38. JJ says:

    I personally think oil changes are overrated. I think it is the other stuff. Someone as compulsive to change oil every 2,500 keeps up on everything else. I blew an engine once cause my thermost was broken for two years, I never put two and two together and though car was just running cool, instead it was around 150 degrees off which blew engine on a hot day on a long drive. Mr change oil every 2,500 miles would have caught that and changed thermosat

  39. 3B says:

    #28 Jill: And there is still new inventory coming on every day, and we are more than half way through the Spring selling season. Mother’s Day and Memorial Day weekend eliminate 2 weekends out of May for open houses and looking etc.

  40. 3B says:

    Chgo/JJ The monthly student loan payment for some one paying full cost at Fordham is $2800.00 a month for 15 years!!!!!!

  41. gary says:

    3B [41],

    I received two emails last night and one this morning from the realtors I spoke to yesterday asking if I was interested in making offers. Gee… in the bang, bang days of yore, realtors were practically feeding us to the lions. My, how the tide has turned! I wonder if they prefer friskies or cup-a-soups? ;)

  42. JJ says:

    SJU if you live at home is 28K a year, I know a kid who got half a scholorship. Will cost him 14K a year and Dad said he would pay whole thing. Kids wants to live on campus at Fordham instead for 60K a year. Dad said I am still paying only 14K kid goes I will take out loans. Dad is mad. Zero debt vs. 180K debt. Meanwhile the 40 year old hiring manager does not know Fordham is now cool and wont pay him a nickle more.

    3B says:
    May 7, 2012 at 1:36 pm
    Chgo/JJ The monthly student loan payment for some one paying full cost at Fordham is $2800.00 a month for 15 years!!!!!!

  43. 3B says:

    #44 JJ Foolish kid. However, tell the Dad, if the kid takes out the loans he most likely will have to co-sign, them, unless the family qualifies for the government backed loans.

    If the family is making any kind of decent money, than no loans, except Sallie Mae, and Sallie wants a co-signer.

  44. JJ says:

    Cant kids just find oldest living relative and make them a co-signer? By time kid is 35 broke and in default it wont matter to the co-signer.

    3B says:
    May 7, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    #44 JJ Foolish kid. However, tell the Dad, if the kid takes out the loans he most likely will have to co-sign, them, unless the family qualifies for the government backed loans.

    If the family is making any kind of decent money, than no loans, except Sallie Mae, and Sallie wants a co-signer.

  45. 3B says:

    #43 gary What a difference!!! The Realtor we met at an open house calls my spouse all the time, and is constantly sending us e-mail. She informed us at one point that activity was heavy, with lots of showings, and we should make an offer. A couple of days later they dropped the price!!! She is anxious for us to put a in a bid, I am awaiting for the next price drop, and it is coming.

  46. 3B says:

    #46 JJ: That would be one stupid relative. You co sign, those are your loans!!!

  47. JJ says:

    Treasury 10-year note yields may fall to a record low 1.5 percent as global economic growth concern persists, according to Dominic Konstam at Deutsche Bank AG, a primary dealer. The yield reached an all-time low of 1.67 percent on Sept. 23.

    3B I am talking like a nursing home person half dead already. Those the co-signer need to meet any requirements? Also if co-signor dies a few years later then ten years down road kid defaults how can they go after a dead person. I know when Jets sold PSLs debt disappeared when person died. Some people bought PSLs in names of 95 year old relatives figuring if PSLs tank they walk away if PSLs rise they transfer into their name. Same concept
    3B says:
    May 7, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    #46 JJ: That would be one stupid relative. You co sign, those are your loans!!!

  48. Juice Box says:

    JJ – Sallie Mae says you are onto something.

    “Who should you ask to be a cosigner?

    A wide range of individuals can be a cosigner as long as they are creditworthy, understand and accept the responsibilities of being a cosigner, and meet any specific cosigner requirements of the lender.

    A creditworthy cosigner is an individual with good or excellent credit and an ability to repay the loan.

    You may want to ask:

    A parent or guardian
    A relative such as a grandparent, aunt, uncle, or cousin
    Your spouse
    Another individual who is supportive of your higher education goals

    Still not sure? Consider this: Who’s the first person you’d invite to your graduation? That person might be the one you ask to be the cosigner.”

    https://www1.salliemae.com/get_student_loan/apply_student_loan/cosigning_loan/

  49. xolepa says:

    I thought I ended my college diatribes, er, discussions. Either way, Fordham. ugh. When I was in college at RU 35+years ago we ran many track meets and Fordham was always one of the participants. Are their colors still that ugly shade of purple? No gifted athletes, there. RU at that time was not RU, it was Rutgers College, quite exclusive at the time and perceived as an Ivy. Actually, it was invited to join the Ivies in the 50s but RC said no. Now going back to Fordham, we looked at it as a hole in the wall. Kids going there said it’s just 4 years and nothing special about it.
    At my daughters HS, nobody, absolutely no one talks about Fordham as being their choice. They don’t even mention the school. Sorry, JJ, it’s a school for the in….and out crowd. NYers may think differently, but the kids in NJ think South or Pa and west when they don’t have the brains to go NE.

  50. JJ says:

    ResCap declaring BK. So GM bondholders and now ReCap bondholders DOA but GMAC bondholders keep dancing. Crazy. Picking winners, picking losers. No wonder the prez does so well in final four pools

  51. JJ says:

    In school for wealthy white catholic B+ to A- students I should say.Actually college itself is a waste of time Bill Gates, Steve Jobs etc. Look at current CEO of Yahoo he just made up a degree and no-one cared.

    According to payscale.com, the median starting salary of emerging Harvard undergraduates who work full-time in the United States is $63,400; even without pursuing further schooling, they boast mid-career median salaries of $124,000. Compare these numbers to the median earnings of the average American male—$45,113 in 2007—and the evidence that a Harvard education increases one’s earning potential appears incontrovertible.

    Now I would not even get out of bed for 124K. Cops make 124K working three days a week. A Harvard degree is not very valuable compared to cost. Now a Harvard MBA and you graduate at right time, such as 1999 or 2005 would make you uber-rich beyond belief. A harvard art history degree in 2009 not so much.

    Beyond the age of 40 a IVY league degree is cocktail party material or something your mother can brag about. You boss is not paying SVP A more than SVP B cause of the degree. It does give you a leg up. But if you cant perform what difference would it make. For instance the Jets awhile back had a promo you could for a fee go to atlantic center and do a full day training the same training a rookie gets and if you could survive you could be a JET!! Yea the ambulence must have been there that day for every beer belly 40 year old passing out. A Harvard degree is kinda like that, it gets you that plum job. But as a trader or something you have to work, otherwise you end up like that fat 40 something using Chase reward points trying out for Jets, you end up flat on your back.

    xolepa says:
    May 7, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    I thought I ended my college diatribes, er, discussions. Either way, Fordham. ugh. When I was in college at RU 35+years ago we ran many track meets and Fordham was always one of the participants. Are their colors still that ugly shade of purple? No gifted athletes, there. RU at that time was not RU, it was Rutgers College, quite exclusive at the time and perceived as an Ivy. Actually, it was invited to join the Ivies in the 50s but RC said no. Now going back to Fordham, we looked at it as a hole in the wall. Kids going there said it’s just 4 years and nothing special about it.
    At my daughters HS, nobody, absolutely no one talks about Fordham as being their choice. They don’t even mention the school. Sorry, JJ, it’s a school for the in….and out crowd. NYers may think differently, but the kids in NJ think South or Pa and west when they don’t have the brains to go NE.

  52. JJ says:

    A Grandparent!!! Yes, my kids grandparents will sign loan. Should I dig up Mom and Dad or just shove the pen in my father in law hands and move it back and forth.

    Actually when making a loan you can discriminate on age so every kid should pick their oldest living grandparent to co-sign as when things go bad so what, they are dead or near broke by then and SS you cant attach a claim too. .

    Juice Box says:
    May 7, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    JJ – Sallie Mae says you are onto something.

    “Who should you ask to be a cosigner?

    A wide range of individuals can be a cosigner as long as they are creditworthy, understand and accept the responsibilities of being a cosigner, and meet any specific cosigner requirements of the lender.

    A creditworthy cosigner is an individual with good or excellent credit and an ability to repay the loan.

    You may want to ask:

    A parent or guardian
    A relative such as a grandparent, aunt, uncle, or cousin
    Your spouse
    Another individual who is supportive of your higher education goals

    Still not sure? Consider this: Who’s the first person you’d invite to your graduation? That person might be the one you ask to be the cosigner.”

    https://www1.salliemae.com/get_student_loan/apply_student_loan/cosigning_loan/

  53. A.West says:

    Libtard,
    Don’t you watch the Mercedes commercials? They sas if you buy a used Mercedes then your 8 year old kids will begin craving it, because you know how high school kids love to drive large 15 year old sedans their parents give them. It’s like those luxury watch ads in Forbes – it’s not extravagance to spend $5000 or more on a watch, because you’re just holding on to it on behalf of your children. Even though $5 watches keep time better than $5000 ones, and even though Mercedes cars aren’t at all reliable and when out of warranty will be money pits pulling money out of their college funds.

    Still, I think it’s time for your old Honda to go soon. There are a lot of safety features on newer cars that are more important than just mpg, and are worth paying for. It’s like buying life insurance. If you want to be cheap, get a deal on a Hyundai with 7 or 8 airbags, ABS, stability control, and that stuff, and keep a copy of the warranty. Or cross your fingers and hope that Honda’s next generation “earth dreams” technology actually puts their engines back in the lead.

  54. JJ says:

    Actually you should always buy the lowest rated life insurance agency. They are all guranteed and when the lower rated one does go under state insurance dept usually sells them to highest rated life insurance company. Which means you pay the cheapest price for best coverage. However, if you pay for triplle AAA coverage and they are downgraded you lose.

    A.West says:
    May 7, 2012 at 3:13 pm
    Libtard,
    Don’t you watch the Mercedes commercials? They sas if you buy a used Mercedes then your 8 year old kids will begin craving it, because you know how high school kids love to drive large 15 year old sedans their parents give them. It’s like those luxury watch ads in Forbes – it’s not extravagance to spend $5000 or more on a watch, because you’re just holding on to it on behalf of your children. Even though $5 watches keep time better than $5000 ones, and even though Mercedes cars aren’t at all reliable and when out of warranty will be money pits pulling money out of their college funds.

    Still, I think it’s time for your old Honda to go soon. There are a lot of safety features on newer cars that are more important than just mpg, and are worth paying for. It’s like buying life insurance. If you want to be cheap, get a deal on a Hyundai with 7 or 8 airbags, ABS, stability control, and that stuff, and keep a copy of the warranty. Or cross your fingers and hope that Honda’s next generation “earth dreams” technology actually puts their engines back in the lead.

  55. JJ says:

    A west the seven airbags in little cars are great. When my 5,000 pound SUV is rolling over the car the bags will pop out and prevent my exhaust system from getting ruined.

    A.West says:
    May 7, 2012 at 3:13 pm
    Libtard,
    Don’t you watch the Mercedes commercials? They sas if you buy a used Mercedes then your 8 year old kids will begin craving it, because you know how high school kids love to drive large 15 year old sedans their parents give them. It’s like those luxury watch ads in Forbes – it’s not extravagance to spend $5000 or more on a watch, because you’re just holding on to it on behalf of your children. Even though $5 watches keep time better than $5000 ones, and even though Mercedes cars aren’t at all reliable and when out of warranty will be money pits pulling money out of their college funds.

    Still, I think it’s time for your old Honda to go soon. There are a lot of safety features on newer cars that are more important than just mpg, and are worth paying for. It’s like buying life insurance. If you want to be cheap, get a deal on a Hyundai with 7 or 8 airbags, ABS, stability control, and that stuff, and keep a copy of the warranty. Or cross your fingers and hope that Honda’s next generation “earth dreams” technology actually puts their engines back in the lead.

  56. Brian says:

    54 –

    Are they like the new Toyotas where random unattended (undesired) acceleration is a new feature?

  57. Anon E. Moose says:

    File under: Real Estate is tough All Over

    Ryan Seacrest re-lists his Hollwood mansion for just under $12MM, down from OLP pushing $15MM in 2010; he bought the place from Kevin Costner for $11.5MM in 2006, so obviously the bubble didn’t affect his block at all.

    http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/ryan-seacrest-tries-selling-hollywood-hills-home-again.html

  58. JJ says:

    Toyotas are garbage. I ran across my 1996 Camry this weekend I sold 7 years ago and it looks like garbage now.

    Brian says:
    May 7, 2012 at 3:21 pm
    54 –

    Are they like the new Toyotas where random unattended (undesired) acceleration is a new feature?

  59. chicagofinance says:

    Are you going tomorrow?

    JJ says:
    May 7, 2012 at 3:32 pm
    Toyotas are garbage. I ran across my 1996 Camry this weekend I sold 7 years ago and it looks like garbage now.

  60. Anon E. Moose says:

    Brian [57];

    Like the Audi’s in the 80’s, that phenomenon is closely correlated with the owner/driver standing on [they SWEAR on a stack of bibles was] the brake, and not [absolutely, positively, 100% certainly NOT] the accelerator. The Prius ‘runaway’ that got live news coverage in LA was a proven hoax.

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/03/toyota_prius_crash_ny_driver_f.html

    Besides which I’m not terribly impressed with the mental accuity of Toyota Pious buyers. They far outsell the comparable Honda Civic hybrid, primarily because the Civic LOOKS the same whether its a hybrid engine or not — i.e., what d@mn good is saving the environment if everyone doesn’t KNOW you’re saving the environment when they see you driving down the street?

  61. Painhrtz - I ain't dead yet says:

    moose little know fact hybrids don’t run on electricity but rather the smugness of their owners

  62. 3b (41)-

    Repeat after me: Spring…Market…2012…DOA…

  63. 3b (42)-

    And, even worse than a depreciating house, you can’t shit, shower and shave inside your defective education.

  64. yo says:

    http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/07/11571960-buuurp-methane-emitting-dinosaurs-could-have-warmed-the-earth?lite

    Buuurp! Methane-emitting dinosaurs could have warmed the earth

    Some scientific findings are just too good to leave alone, even if you don’t know if they can ever be confirmed: Such is the case for a study saying that plant-eating dinosaurs could have emitted enough digestive methane to warm Earth’s climate 150 million years ago.

  65. Sellers Tude says:

    Gary (16),

    I love the quote.
    Your attitude is to the heart of the matter.
    Regardless of if contingency – IT’S A BUYER’S MARKET AND IT’S NOT THE MANIA OF 2005!
    BLOATED PRICES, EXCLUSIONS AND OTHER SELLER BS WON’T BE TOLERATED.
    So Mr/Ms. Obstinate Seller, enjoy paying the taxes for another quarter, while buyer’s take you yet another 5% lower for their trouble!

    Best of luck to you Gary.

    16. gary says:
    May 7, 2012 at 9:29 am

    “…My take on contingencies: Sellers, you don’t have a choice. If I say I’m going to sell my house for market value to buy your house, with a 800+ FICO and plenty of skin, you need to belly up and take it. You don’t dictate… Mr. Buyer does. It’s 2012 and you’re in quicksand. Got it? Like I said, they weren’t exactly storming the doors with checkbooks in hand. Some of these houses we spent 30 minutes at and no one showed up. What does that tell you on a sunny Sunday in May?”

  66. sjguy says:

    no raise last year and found out today 401k matches are suspended immediatley. Things are definitely getting better, I think i’ll go out and buy a house now.

  67. chi (60)-

    jj can’t go tomorrow. His car broke down.

  68. sjguy (68)-

    That’s the equivalent of the tide rolling out before the tsunami.

  69. It’s all going to hell, folks. Smoke ’em if you got ’em.

  70. Shore Guy says:

    “Spring…Market…2012…DOA…”

    That is GRET news. Why, you say? Dead things break down into compost and compost helps things grow. Therefore, it is a great time to buy as the market will be growing like crazy. Buy now or get priced out forever as the beanstalk grows to the clouds.

  71. Shore Guy says:

    GREAT, even. Friggen Android.

  72. Confused in NJ says:

    Interesting Channel 13 video on billions IRS is sending to illegal aliens ITC filings for non resident dependents. IRS is aware but can’t act without Congress authorization.

    http://www.wthr.com/video?clipId=7054149&topVideoCatNo=103348&autoStart=true

  73. freedy says:

    But wait how could the spring 2012 season be DOA? all over the newspapers,TV,etc
    all telling me the all clear is in . Hurry to your local Realtor’s office .

  74. Stupid gack listing drone sat yet another worthless open house yesterday at the overpriced crapshack next door to me. Loser even had to bring his own plastic chair, as the place is bare to the bone.

    Turnout for the afternoon: 0.

  75. insurgo says:

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  76. Chuck says:

    Confused (74),

    What’s worse – there are lawyers profiting from this. They either clip the illegal alien’s return for processing fees or they count it as a pro bono expense to offset taxable income.

    Confused in NJ says:
    May 7, 2012 at 6:09 pm

    Interesting Channel 13 video on billions IRS is sending to illegal aliens ITC filings for non resident dependents. IRS is aware but can’t act without Congress authorization.

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