Has the starter home returned to North Jersey?

From the Record:


The return of the under-$300,000 house in Bergen, Passaic counties

Tired of paying rent, Jorge and Christine Garcia saved up and recently bought their first home: a move-in-ready colonial in Bogota. Though the property had sold for $393,000 in late 2008, the housing bust meant the Garcias were able to get it for only $275,000.

“The downturn in house prices allowed us to stay in Bergen County,” said Christine Garcia, 29, an assistant to a sports-industry executive and mother of a 1 1/2-year-old daughter.

The Garcias’ experience is a stark example of how the starter-home market has changed in North Jersey. In March 2005, The Record ran a story about North Jersey’s vanishing under-$300,000 home. Seven years later, with regional home values down about 27 percent since the market’s peak in mid-2006, it’s now easy to find a home for less than $300,000 in Bergen and Passaic.

In fact, it’s pretty easy to find a home for less than $250,000.

That’s what Sue Choe and Mike Park did. They recently hit “the jackpot,” in Choe’s words, on a Teaneck home in great condition for $241,000, after selling (and breaking even on) their Fort Lee co-op.

“For us to purchase a home so competitively priced allows me to stay home [with my year-old son] and not worry too much about the bills,” said Choe, 33, a former marketing manager. Her husband is a corporate supervisor.

While the drop in home prices is good news for young buyers like the Garcias and Choe and Park, it can be devastating for sellers, especially those who bought at peak prices.

In Bergen County last year, one in four home sales was for less than $300,000; that compares with only 11 percent in 2007, according to an analysis of property records by The Record. In Passaic County, more than half of home sales were for under $300,000, compared with one in four in 2007.

The Record’s look at property records found that under-$300,000 homes were a majority of sales in many towns that have traditionally drawn first-time home buyers, such as Bogota, Bergenfield, Elmwood Park, Garfield, Hackensack, Lodi, Clifton, Wanaque, West Milford and Pompton Lakes. But properties under $300,000 also made up 42 percent of the sales in Fair Lawn, 27 percent of the sales in Mahwah and 23 percent of the sales in Waldwick.

“The long process of downward price adjustments in the housing market has been painful in many dimensions,” said Joseph Seneca, a Rutgers economist. “However, it was, and remains, necessary, to clear what was a badly distorted housing market. Inventories are finally realigning and demand is returning.”

Several real estate agents said the lower prices — combined with mortgage rates below 4 percent — make a compelling case for buying, rather than renting.

“People who are looking under $300,000 or even under $250,000, a lot of times they can buy a house for less than what it would cost them to rent,” said Dominie Healey, an agent with Vikki Healey Properties in Maywood.

If buyers are getting good deals, sellers are facing painful losses — including some so far underwater that they have to write a check to pay off the mortgage when they sell. But many decide to move anyway, because they need more space, have new jobs or want to be closer to their jobs or families, said Frances Rosado, a Coldwell Banker agent in Clifton.

“Some people just need to move,” Rosado said. “What are you going to do, stay in the house for the rest of your life? Or just bite the bullet and go?”

It’s certainly easier for sellers who bought decades ago and are still coming out ahead financially.

Ronald and Patricia Schiller, for example, bought their Clifton home 40 years ago. Now they are retiring to Florida and selling the house for $255,000.

“We would have liked to get more, but we see houses in our neighborhood just sitting there,” said Patricia Schiller.

This entry was posted in Economics, Housing Bubble, Housing Recovery, North Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

157 Responses to Has the starter home returned to North Jersey?

  1. Essex says:

    Get your starter home Jersey style. Monthly nut equals tax bill.

  2. grim says:

    Rent insanity continues, my mother rented out the second floor of one of her Passaic Co. 2 fams, a cape, 2br/1ba, for just about $1200/mo. Her previous tenant purchased one of those above mentioned starter homes in the same town. And it’s not even vacant yet, new tenant is happy to wait two months to move in.

  3. chicagofinance says:

    I find your style of arguing on these threads rather cumbersome. There is no question that the U.S. leads the world in technology and in the health sciences, and it has been the country’s enduring differentiating advantage. Yet, you immediately bristle at someone referring to this “common knowledge” and cite example of other countries.

    The interesting part is that your overall preference for social programs and comfort with the tax proposals of the current Presidential administration are EXACTLY the type of measures that would kill off tech and pharma in the U.S. in the long run.

    I presented a discussion from a management conference in Chicago last month on this exact point, and you reacted with skepticism……so on the one hand you do not want to accept a fact, and then on the other hand you cite the rise of foreign country expertise and refuse to acknowledge that disfunction in tax structure and government programs have anything to do with it…..

    Fabius Maximus says:
    August 5, 2012 at 10:12 pm
    #54 brian (previous thread)

    To truly grasp America’s dominance of the technology space, one only needs to look at a list of the largest tech companies in the world. Nine of the ten largest are American. The first European company doesn’t show up until No. 11 on the list.”

    Do you have a source on this?

    There are two parts of this to consider. The first is that, there are companies such as Samsung that are truly dominant in tech followed by a lot of the Japanese/ Korean that go across many industries.
    The second point, for this to hold true, the US should have dominance in the likes of Tech/Pharm in India and China as they have emerged, but that is not the case. In fact, go back to the 2nd world war and look at IBM’s relationship with Japan up through the 80’s and 90’s and you have a roadmap for how not to do it.

  4. Brian says:

    From this weekend’s thread…..

    52.Brian says:
    August 6, 2012 at 8:06 am
    The author of this article listed the 11 largest tech companies by market cap in order to support his point.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/dont-count-america-out-2012-7

    1. Apple (USA) $565 Billion
    2. Microsoft (USA) $252 Billion
    3. International Business Machines (USA) $219 Billion
    4. Google (USA) $199 Billion
    5. Oracle (USA) $147 Billion
    6. Samsung (South Korea) $136 Billion
    7. Intel (USA) $128 Billion
    8. Qualcomm (USA) $98 Billion
    9. Cisco (USA) $88 Billion
    10. Visa (USA) $85 Billion
    11. SAP (Germany) $73 Billion

    Source: S&P Capital IQ. Market caps are reflective of July 20 closing prices. Sorted by companies in the information technology sector.

    40.Fabius Maximus says:
    August 5, 2012 at 10:12 pm
    #54 brian (previous thread)

    To truly grasp America’s dominance of the technology space, one only needs to look at a list of the largest tech companies in the world. Nine of the ten largest are American. The first European company doesn’t show up until No. 11 on the list.”

    Do you have a source on this?

  5. Brian says:

    2 – Grim, did you see the article I posted this morning from the economist? It speaks about how investors are capitalizing on american’s new preference for renting SFH’s instead of purchasing them. Even went so far as to call it a “growth” industry. They talk about Arizona, California, and the Las Vegas NV area but the concept is interesting.

    Quote from the article:

    “This is a welcome change. Housing is typically one of the most powerful engines in the early stages of recovery, with purchases of homes revving up spending on furniture, carpets and garden landscaping.”

    55.Brian says:
    August 6, 2012 at 8:31 am
    The housing market
    Pulling its weight at last
    Investors help turn the housing market into a source of growth

    http://www.economist.com/node/21559923

  6. Brian says:

    One of Mr Schmitz’s tenants, Paula, had bought a house in 2007. She and her husband picked out every detail, from the site to the cabinet knobs, and watched it being built, slab by slab. After the recession hit, her husband, a trucker, saw his business dry up and his costs soar with the price of fuel. They fell behind on their payments and, to avoid foreclosure, sold the house for little more than a third of what they paid in a “short sale” just before Christmas in 2010. “I was sick to my stomach,” she recalled. But when Mr Schmitz, the buyer, asked if she and her husband would like to remain as tenants, it was “our Christmas miracle. It was win-win.” Their rent is now roughly half their original mortgage payment, and “We kept our dignity.”

    Presto change-o and this lady and her husband are transformed from depressed bagholders into renters with half the monthly payment all in the same house. Now they can resume filling their home with all sorts of new trinkets or buy a boat or a new car or whatever.

  7. Ann says:

    Hi all. Used to post here a long time ago, maybe back in 2007? We bought a modest house in Bergen County in early 2008, so not quite peak price, but pretty close. We put 20% down, we have refinanced, so our payment is fine. Anyway, we were thinking of moving due to location/commute and to try to get a few other attributes we want. Our income has tripled since we bought this, so we are in a good position in that sense. Long story short, we are in a position to move up. But we can’t stomach the massive loss of equity, which is probably 100K, even though we have the cash to cover it and move on. We like our house enough, thank goodness, so here we shall stay and do something else with our extra income. Eh, we’re probably better off.

    So anyway, my theory is that the move-up market is dead in North Jersey. Thoughts?

  8. Anon E. Moose says:

    Brian [6];

    I smell a straw purchaser in that deal, not a bona fide arms-length transaction. If the bank approving the short sale knew they were renting the place after it sold, they’d know they’ve been had. Any wagers on whether their rental agreement with the ‘buyer’ is a 30-yr fixed payment lease with a $1 option to ‘buy’ at the end?

  9. Anon E. Moose says:

    Ann [7];

    Having put 20% down, then lost $100k in equity, did you have to bring money to the table to refi?

    Recent reports are that the high end (above $1 MM?) has capitulated. Can’t speak to the ‘move-up’ market, if you define it as $0.5-1.0 MM. That range is still heavily influenced by traditional mortgage lending, so think $521k sale price ($417k/0.8), more if the buyer is rolling in some equity from their starter house.

  10. Brian says:

    7- Ann

    So anyway, my theory is that the move-up market is dead in North Jersey. Thoughts?

    I agree and I think I remember reading Grim deduce that very same thing here earlier this year.

  11. Ann says:

    #9 Anon
    No, we didn’t have to bring money to refinance. The appraisal was pretty much wrong though, way too high, so I guess that’s why. It was also with the same bank, so maybe that played into it?

    Our house is in the 600s (or was), so I guess we are more mid-level starter house. The realtors keep telling us that we would still be making out because the 900K houses used to be 1.3 million. Which is true, but it’s still hard to stomach such a big loss.

    #10 It will be interesting to see what happens. I know that the news has been saying the market is getting better, but I can’t see it getting that much better around here without the move-up market improving.

  12. Juice Box says:

    Down in Colts Neck they are arming for the next revolution. During my drive around there yesterday saw quite a few Red Neck pickups with lift kits and 37 inch tires.

  13. Brian says:

    Ann,

    It will be interesting to see what happens. I know that the news has been saying the market is getting better, but I can’t see it getting that much better around here without the move-up market improving.

    I read an article by Stan Humphries from Zillow where he said the market will just bounce along the bottom for the next few years. His theory was that, as prices improve, underwater owners will put their houses back on the market, increasing supply thereby dragging them back down again. If he’s right, we’ll just see a series of headfakes…..rather than any sustained price increases.

  14. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [10] Brian – I’ve been expecting the move-up market to disappear around now since the late 90’s. Here’s what I posted here over a year ago:

    The Original NJ Expat says:
    May 12, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    #170 ‘thal Econ-

    You can even make a case, I guess, that incomes leveled out over the last decade+ while the move-up market trendline didn’t. The move-up market has bothered me for roughly 20 years. I guess I’m considered to be in the very tail-end of the baby boomer generation and looking back at the demos behind me I was wondering how there would possibly be enough buyers for the large group of sellers that I would one day be a part of. Realizing no matter what price level I bought at, it seemed to me a distinct possibility that I would be selling for less, just based on demographics. My decision then and since is to always have have so much equity that I would never have to bring money to the closing table to sell. The home we’ve been in since 2002 was bought with 40% down and we paid double our mortgage payment every month for the first two years and still overpay today. Refi-ed once with no cash out and never took a 2nd or a HELOC. We have friends with bigger houses, but I think we sleep better and argue less.

  15. Ernest Money says:

    ann (11)-

    Next stop for North Jersey RE is oblivion. No one will be spared.

    Get out while you can. Your first loss is your best loss.

  16. Happy Renter says:

    [2] “Rent insanity continues”

    Whereas, my experience has been: no rent increase in 4 years.

    I guess that’s a benefit to being a great tenant, if I do say so myself.

  17. Happy Renter says:

    [15] “Get out while you can. Your first loss is your best loss.”

    Gem of the day.

  18. Ann says:

    #15 What do you mean get out while you can? I still need to live somewhere around here lol. We also made fake money in the boom, which we them used as the down payment on this, so I guess I should just pretend that money never existed. Because it really never did.

  19. Ann says:

    13 Brian, that sounds right. I can see that here, the only people selling are the people who really have to sell (divorce, death, relocation etc). But then there will be next wave I guess when reality sets in that prices aren’t coming back up.

  20. Ann says:

    Re comment 14, that was my other question…I don’t want to pay this mortgage down too much because I’m just resigned to feeling like a renter since I don’t think it’s an investment anymore. Just getting ready to give it to someone at some point when we are done living here, not expecting to ever walk away with money out of this. But should we be paying the mortgage down with our extra income, or is there something better to do with it? I know these sound like stupid questions, but remember I’m just a regular person with financial stuff : )

  21. chicagofinance says:

    Details scraped off……notice they try to blame “The Renters”…..stupid bagholders….

    RE: Any clue about last night on xxxx………
    we don’t seem to have any damage. I wonder if we keeping 3 outside lights on all night had discouraged the mischiefs .

    Sent: Monday, August 6, 2012 6:40 AM
    Subject: Re: Any clue about last night on xxxx………
    We had 3 lights completely ripped out and the mailbox hit.
    CW

    From:
    Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 10:41 PM
    To:
    Subject: RE: Any clue about last night on xxxx………
    Hi xxxx,
    I hope you don’t mind but I copied some other neighbors as well. xxxx and I went outside at around 10am and saw our mailbox down and our volleyball net in the trees. We walked out and the cops were here taking notes. Then we walked around the block and saw that there were other mailboxes down – also ran into xxxx and xxxx who both had their lawn furniture in their pools as well. Also xxxx had their fences ripped out. Then we kept walking and saw xxxx on the corner who said that someone banged on her door a bit past 5 in the morning and she called 911. Really scary. It all seemed like vandalism and mischief. I did not hear of anyone else having anything stolen. Whoever it was – it seems that they were here from 4am until after 5. Someone said they heard lots of noise at 4 or so.
    I hope they found out who did it.
    —–Original Message—–
    From:
    To:
    Subject: Any clue about last night on xxxx………
    Friends,
    We woke up this morning to our pool area trashed, wrought iron patio furniture thrown in the pool puncturing the liner, shed broken into and a couple things stolen. The police left a while ago after lifting finger prints and they said similar things happened at other houses on the block. They had said they starting receiving calls about 4:30 am but when they arrived they did not find anything.
    Any clue what went on last night?
    They also were saying they have been having problems with the 1st house on xxxx as you make a right turn out of the block. The people rent there and I guess they have been there a couple of times.
    Has anyone heard about this house before?

  22. Statler Waldorf says:

    There’s a lesson here — you can lose $125,000 in just a few years buying a “starter” house that you’ll quickly outgrow:

    “Though the property had sold for $393,000 in late 2008, the housing bust meant the Garcias were able to get it for only $275,000.”

  23. Anon E. Moose says:

    Ann [18];

    Ernest (aka Meat, Clot, a variety of incarnations) is our resident misanthrope doomsday oracle. Take his comments for what they are worth, to me mostly entertainment value.

  24. Shore Guy says:

    Ann,

    My perspective on whether to pay-down the mortgage ahead of schedule. I would suggest that you take out your amortization schedule and look at your next payment — the next regular payment you will be making — then look to the one after that. Of that subsequent payment, what part is interest and what part is interest. Then figure out what rate of return, taking into account tht you will need to pay taxes on your investment income, you would need to earn to equal the rate of return you get by paying that next month’s principal ahead of time — thus saving the interest payment associated with that next payment.

    Lets say one has a 480k, 30-yr mortgage, at 5%. Eight years in, the payment will be about $1,700 in interest and $860 in principal. By paying the extra $860, one is saving $1,700. To me, that is a 200% return on investment, guaranteed, with no taxes that need to be paid on the gain. To get the same return, assuming a 40% combined tax rate, one would need to earm $2,833 on an $860 investment, just to get the same return. My guess is that any investment that could do that would carry a fair bit of risk.

  25. Shore Guy says:

    Should say:

    Of that subsequent payment, what part is interest and what part is principal.

  26. chicagofinance says:

    Ann says:
    August 6, 2012 at 11:53 am
    Re comment 14, that was my other question…I don’t want to pay this mortgage down too much because I’m just resigned to feeling like a renter since I don’t think it’s an investment anymore. Just getting ready to give it to someone at some point when we are done living here, not expecting to ever walk away with money out of this. But should we be paying the mortgage down with our extra income, or is there something better to do with it? I know these sound like stupid questions, but remember I’m just a regular person with financial stuff : )

    Ann: I take off my avenging “Bitter Renter/Social Outcast/Below The Elite 140” hat for a moment, and put on my professional one.

    If you are in position to make a financial decision that suits your individual goals, and is well considered, then what is the hesitation? You should feel at an advantage. You are not attempting to sell a larger home and downsize, but rather use additional investment capital to increase your overall allocation to primary residence real estate. You are a winner here. As long as you stay within reasonable limitations in your new expense profile, and your increased income in 2012 is sustainable. The key is that your 2012 income reflects a recurring stream, and does not merely benefit from quirks in economic conditions, trends or fortunate recent personal events.

    The fact that you made the below post means you are already most of the way towards thinking clearly about this decision:

    Ann says:
    August 6, 2012 at 11:47 am
    #15 We also made fake money in the boom, which we them used as the down payment on this, so I guess I should just pretend that money never existed. Because it really never did

  27. xolepa says:

    Renters are always suspect. They are the bagholders throughout time . Unless, of course, you live in a rent controlled apt in NYC. Then consider the government your accomplice.

    I rented for 6 months in my life. Waste of money. I have tenants renting out one place of mine. They have pumped out alone over $139000 over 8 years into my economy. Need I say more.

  28. Bystander says:

    Ex,

    Trying to stay out of trap is hard. I have not had a raise in 4 years and bonus cut to nothing. I work for a well-known wall street bank doing analysis and PM work on global system change. 15 years experience means nothing. I am getting same pay at 34 when I started here and now 40. Two interviews and no offers in 2 months. Calls from recruiters yield 6 mo. jobs in RI or Jersey City. I live in CT . Pay is $75/hr no benefits. You can’t compete against H1 visa. Not sure where these buyers are for 600k 1200 sq ft ranches or capes. I guess I am doing something wrong..or should leverage to hilt and not sleep at night. My buddy in Ridgewood is doing that now. Perhaps JJ was right – no recession and cash buyers are screwed. Still seeing sellers listing for double ’99 or ’00 price. Guess I will rent for forseeable future.

  29. Anon E. Moose says:

    Nom: Thoughts?

    55 Year Old CPA With 169 LSAT Sues Baylor Over Admissions Denial, Says His 3.2 GPA Was Earned Before Grade Inflation (linky)

    I suspect that certain majors are similarly disadvantaged in the admissions process; a 3.2 in Nuclear Engineering isn’t quite the same as the same GPA in “FillInTheBlank Studies”, and I recall some recent some recent media coverage that would support my view. I never quite thought it was worth suing over. And Baylor? Who knew they were that picky?

  30. Anon E. Moose says:

    xolepa [27];

    I rented for 6 months in my life. Waste of money. I have tenants renting out one place of mine. They have pumped out alone over $139000 over 8 years into my economy. Need I say more.

    And I had a great run at the craps table last month; but I haven’t yet convinced myself that I’ve discovered a reliable new income stream worth quitting my day job for. Although I do have next Wed’s winning $212 MM powerball ticket in my pocket.

  31. Brian says:

    Eh, I wouldn’t necessarily connect that to a problem with irate deadbeat bagholders. I did a hell of a lot worse than that to my parent’s neighbors when I was like 16. Could be just run of the mill teenage angst.

    This is dangerous as hell but an example:
    We used to take pool cleaner, and put it into those old glass 16oz soda bottles. Crinckle up a piece of aluminum foil, shove it in the bottle, then screw the lid back on as tight as you can. Shove it in some unsuspecting regular working slob’s mailbox at midnight and BOOM. No more mailbox.

    21.chicagofinance says:
    August 6, 2012 at 11:56 am
    Details scraped off……notice they try to blame “The Renters”…..stupid bagholders….

  32. J La says:

    Just finished a property tax appeal hearing in Hackensack. Suffice to say, my town had so many appeals, they had to move location in building to accommodate 100 or so appellants. Some were recommended for dismissal because of “failure to provide adequate burden of proff” vis a vis comps. Really?? Where in the world are we us supposed to get comps that make sense in this market. One person when asked why the highest comp he had was almost a million dollars off replied, “that’s why I’m here!!!

  33. chicagofinance says:

    Brian: but we are talking (prestigeous) Colts Neck…..

  34. chicagofinance says:

    Speaking of prestige…..here is The Brig’s Olympian…..

    LONDON — American judo fighter Nick Delpopolo was expelled from the Olympics on Monday for doping, saying he unintentionally ate something before the games that had been baked with marijuana.

    Delpopolo is the first of the 10,500 London Games athletes to fail an in-competition doping test. His case is the fifth positive test for a banned substance reported by the IOC since the Olympic body started its London testing program in mid-July. The other four were caught before competing.

    The International Olympic Committee said it disqualified him from the 73-kilogram class, where he placed seventh. The IOC added that he tested positive for metabolites of cannabis after competing on July 30, the day he competed.

    The IOC said it will strip him of his accreditation immediately and will ask the International Judo Federation to alter the standings in Delpopolo’s event. The IOC also requested that judo’s governing body “consider any further action within its own competence.”

    The 23-year-old judoka from Westfield, N.J., said his positive test was “caused by my inadvertent consumption of food that I did not realize had been baked with marijuana” before he left for the Olympics.

    “I apologize to U.S. Olympic Committee, to my teammates, and to my fans, and I am embarrassed by this mistake,” he said in a statement. “I look forward to representing my country in the future, and will rededicate myself to being the best judo athlete that I can be.”

  35. Carlito says:

    #34….legalize pot, restrict guns…

  36. Ernest Money says:

    Bet that judo guy claims Michael Phelps’ mom baked the pot brownies he ate by “accident”.

  37. Ernest Money says:

    Now would be a good time to re-run some YouTube of Phelps emptying a bong.

  38. Ernest Money says:

    My kind of swimmer.

  39. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [21] chifi,

    Where I am going in PA, behavior like that runs a much higher risk of contracting a pesky case of lead and steel poisoning.

    Or I can go all-in Meat Money style, and keep that slit trench in the woods, with bags of lime under cover nearby. Just in case.

  40. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [39] redux,

    After all, it used to be the rule: no body, no murder. Ah, the good ol’ days.

  41. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [34] chifi,

    I’d rather have our kids and their occasional bong hits, than the ones you described frequenting your neighborhood. At least, I don’t have to threaten to shoot ours.

  42. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [29] moose,

    Sounds like he’d make a helluva PI lawyer. But that COA has a snowball’s chance in hell.

  43. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [30] moose,

    “Although I do have next Wed’s winning $212 MM powerball ticket in my pocket.”

    Stop it. You’re giving Obama a stiffy with that kind of talk.

  44. xmonger says:

    #32. Arguing with the government akin to putting one’s head in a blender.

  45. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Speaking of putting one’s head in a blender:

    http://news.yahoo.com/social-security-still-good-deal-workers-125016929–finance.html

    We have officially passed the tipping point. Everyone knew it was coming. This is also why one of the less-trumpeted part of the democrats (not just Obama) tax plans is to convert more personal revenue into earned income. Small businessfolk have long figured out how to avoid payroll taxes; the dems are aggressively attempting to turn capital income into ordinary income, and have gone after “thought” industries such as attorneys, accountants, consultants, etc.

    But if the distinction is capital versus labor, why stop there? Truly, all of a plumber’s small business earnings should be ordinary. And a roofer’s. And a mechanic’s. Yes, there are capital costs, but then there is depreciation, and the revenue source isn’t from invested capital, it’s from customers and all of that income should be considered earned income.

    So the effort to go after subchapter S corps in specific industries is not just to stop a perceived abuse, it is a further attempt to pick off a targeted group for special attention from the IRS. In short, the dems have said, we will punish you if you have subchapter S income but not if you are in those occupational groups that historically vote for us.

    Money is right; oblivion dead ahead.

  46. chicagofinance says:

    Nom: Didn’t you read…..I am one of the renters potentially responsible for the mischief. The bagholders have cast their finger of blame…….

    Comrade Nom Deplume says:
    August 6, 2012 at 1:28 pm
    34] chifi,
    I’d rather have our kids and their occasional bong hits, than the ones you described frequenting your neighborhood. At least, I don’t have to threaten to shoot ours.

  47. chicagofinance says:

    JJ:
    CORTLAND, N.Y. — A brawl involving about 20 players erupted on the sideline in the New York Jets’ practice Monday, causing reporters to s(c)atter and coming dangerously close to fans. It started when safety D’Anton Lynn, son of runnings back coach Anthony Lynn, shoved running back Joe McKnight out of bounds after a screen pass. McKnight fired the ball at Lynn, and they immediately started fighting, with McKnight charging and throwing the first punch. Within seconds, the offensive and defensive units ran over. A massive pile-up ensued. The players ran over advertisement placards, which run the length of the sideline, en route to the pile-up.
    Coach Rex Ryan, probably not pleased that it was so close to fans, came over immediately and started pulling players out of the pile.

  48. Happy Renter says:

    [47] Stay classy, Jets.

  49. Brian says:

    That doesn’t really make a difference. “Presigous” towns have no shortage of snot nosed ritzy teenagers with too much time on their hands. I grew up in Sparta, there was no shortage of teenage punks living in mom and dad’s 4000sqft McMansions.

    I recall in High School, my friend used to drive his mom’s minivan to school on garbage day. On the way there, he’d smash into as many garbage cans as he could. Then, we’d sneak out at lunch and use the van to smash into all of the empty cans. He discovered that when you hit the cheap rubbermaid ones at 80mph plus, they would actually shatter. So, I guess homeowners got tired of coming home from a long day’s work to discover the carnage…….plus the cops never could catch us in the act. So one of them took matters into his own hands. This guy brought all of his garbage cans in except for one…..and filled it with bricks, concrete bits and cinderblocks. When my friend hit it……it wrecked the front end of his mom’s minivan.

    Anyway, what are you doing in that rental that the cops are constantly there?

    33.chicagofinance says:
    August 6, 2012 at 1:00 pm
    Brian: but we are talking (prestigeous) Colts Neck…..

  50. Shore Guy says:

    Whom did Deloitte & Touche tick off in the Obama Administration?

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/06/us-standardchartered-iran-idUSBRE8750VM20120806?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=71

    snip

    Benjamin Lawsky, superintendent of the state’s department of financial services, said Standard Chartered Bank reaped hundreds of millions of dollars of fees by scheming with Iran’s government despite U.S. economic sanctions to hide roughly 60,000 transactions from 2001 to 2010.

    Lawsky’s order quotes a senior Standard Chartered official in London who, upon being advised by a North American colleague that its Iran dealings could cause “catastrophic reputational damage,” reportedly replied:

    “You f—ing Americans. Who are you to tell us, the rest of the world, that we’re not going to deal with Iranians.”

    Lawsky said the unit of the London-based bank was “apparently aided” by its consultant Deloitte & Touche LLP, which hid details from regulators, and despite being under supervision by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and other regulators for other compliance failures.

    The bank’s actions “left the U.S. financial system vulnerable to terrorists, weapons dealers, drug kingpins and corrupt regimes, and deprived law enforcement investigators of crucial information used to track all manner of criminal activity,” Lawsky said in an order made public on Monday.

    “In short, Standard Chartered Bank operated as a rogue institution,” Lawsky added.

    snip

  51. Oracle Socrates says:

    WISE FOOLS of the Sophoclean order!

    Heed my word!

    Stop with yet another article of yet more rhetorical stupidity!

    The starter home is the one you inherit from your family, or if you’re female, the one you get via your starter marriage (and starter divorce settlement).

    The only other home you get would be section 8 welfare housing and its NJ sister – COAH.

    More ouzo tuz yo!

  52. Ragnar says:

    Anon, (29)
    O-man says as long as you work hard, play by the rules, and get a 3.0 or higher in your sociology or urban studies degree, then your fellow citizens owe you a “middle-class” lifestyle.

    It’s too harsh to demand that people actually think about whether there’s an economic market for the skills involved in a particular degree. After all, if the degree wasn’t valuable, why would our State-run schools offer it?

  53. scribe says:

    chi,

    you suspicious renter, you :)

    geez

  54. Statler Waldorf says:

    “I have tenants renting out one place of mine. They have pumped out alone over $139000 over 8 years into my economy. Need I say more.”

    $17K a year sounds like a good deal for the tenants. The “owner” had to pay property taxes, regular maintenance, unexpected repairs, transaction fees, opportunity costs, realtor fees, and earns nothing when the unit is vacant.

  55. xolepa says:

    (54) Statler. It’s not a SFH

  56. chicagofinance says:

    The End Is Nigh (Microwave Popcorn Edition):

    Chronic ‘Butter Flavoring’ Exposure Linked to Harmful Brain Process

    MONDAY, Aug. 6 (HealthDay News) — Chronic exposure to an artificial butter flavoring ingredient, known as diacetyl, may worsen the harmful effects of a protein in the brain linked to Alzheimer’s disease, according to a new study.

    The findings should serve as a red flag for factory workers with significant exposure to the food-flavoring ingredient, researchers from the University of Minnesota said in the report published in a recent issue of the journal Chemical Research in Toxicology.

    Diacetyl is used to give a buttery taste and aroma to common food items such as margarines, snack foods, candy, baked goods, pet foods and other products.

    The investigators pointed out that previous studies have already linked diacetyl to respiratory and other health problems among workers at microwave popcorn and food-flavoring plants.

    Although diacetyl forms naturally in fermented beverages, such as beer and wine, its chemical structure is similar to a substance that makes beta-amyloid proteins clump together in the brain. This clumping, the study authors noted, is a hallmark of Alzheimer’s disease.

    In their study, the researchers found that diacetyl also increases the amount of beta-amyloid clumping in the brain. And it worsened the beta-amyloid protein’s harmful effects on nerve cells grown in a lab when the cells were exposed to the same levels of diacetyl that factory workers might be exposed to in their jobs.

    The study authors pointed out that other experiments revealed that diacetyl also crosses the “blood-brain barrier,” which helps protect the brain from dangerous substances. Diacetyl also prevented a beneficial protein from protecting nerve cells.

    “In light of the chronic exposure of industry workers to diacetyl, this study raises the troubling possibility of long-term neurological toxicity mediated by diacetyl,” Robert Vince and colleagues concluded in a news release from the American Chemical Society.

    The study was funded by the Center for Drug Design research endowment funds at the University of Minnesota.

    While the study found an association between chronic diacetyl exposure and certain brain protein processes, it did not prove a cause-and-effect relationship.

  57. seif says:

    54 – agreed. “need I say more?” well, yes…you need. there are a ton of other factors involved in determining if renting was a better choice for them (and you as an owner)…besides, it is not a zero sum game. it could have been good for you and great for them too.

  58. chicagofinance says:

    scribe says:
    August 6, 2012 at 3:16 pm
    chi, you suspicious renter, you :) geez

    scribe: SHHHH!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwT1kp0C3Ss

  59. chicagofinance says:

    Kind of the point…..obnoxious falsehood…….prima facie evidence of bagholder sucker….

    Brian says:
    August 6, 2012 at 2:32 pm
    Anyway, what are you doing in that rental that the cops are constantly there?

    33.chicagofinance says:
    August 6, 2012 at 1:00 pm
    Brian: but we are talking (prestigeous) Colts Neck…..

  60. Juice Box says:

    Brian – Chi puts on his black eyeliner and bellows out his best version of Dave Gahan on his karaoke machine every weekend. After a few dozen renditions of Personal Jesus wouldn’t you call the cops on him too?

  61. Nicholas says:

    I have rented for the last four years spending 1200 per month on rent. That totals up to 57,600$ in rent over the last three years. If I had bought a 350k house like I had intended in 2008 and it had dropped 50% in value. Then I would be in the hole by a bit less than 117,400$.

    At 30k per year I believe that it was a great decision for me and my family and that we dodged a bullet that would have wiped us out. My wife was angry at the time but I prevailed with the argument “I won’t let you run through the house with scissors and a I will not let you buy a litter box (house)”. She now thanks me for instead of being angry.

    Ann,

    If you are trapped with an underwater house what should you do was articulated a bit by shore guy (post 24). You really have to look at it from a buisness perspective. You really have three options: default on mortgage, pay on time, pay early.

    It is unlikely that “pay on time” is the best scenario since that only benefits you when inflation is high so you can likely skip calculating that one as a possibility.

    If you default on your mortgage you could take a hit to your credit but walk away with more money than you had otherwise. Most people, myself included, just cannot default on an obligation unless there is no other option. I don’t go around making promises to pay without 100% doing everything in my power to make it happen. That also takes “default” out of the equation in my case.

    Shore indicated that if you have the ability to pay early then you simply calculate the ROI of paying early and if that is better than other investements then you should do so. This is the last of the three options. It is most likely the one you will take unless the previous two make more sense.

    I hope this helps you rationalize your way though your decision.

  62. chicagofinance says:

    There are two parallel stories in this video. The part with the young people reminds me of when I first met my wife. I was going somewhere for one reason, and I stumbled across this lady when I got there……the chick at the end kind of resembles my wife at that age…..

    Juice Box says:
    August 6, 2012 at 4:46 pm
    Brian – Chi puts on his black eyeliner and bellows out his best version of Dave Gahan on his karaoke machine every weekend. After a few dozen renditions of Personal Jesus wouldn’t you call the cops on him too?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v85gICtpVjw

  63. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    To answer the original question of today, Has the starter home returned to North Jersey?, I would answer in the affirmative. Further I would submit that it comes in several models:

    a. car, stationary
    b. car, mobile
    c. car, mobile with reg & insurance
    d. custom van
    e. RV – the McMansion of the new normal
    f. RV with a Geo Tracker in tow – Mansion with a guest house

  64. chicagofinance says:

    I think Shore and Nicholas focused on the mortgage issue, but the first post from Ann was this one, and my opinions were expressed relative to this point. She should move on with clear sailing, so what if she needs to book a loss. It is irrelevant….also $100K is not a massive loss of anything, I think the problem is the numbers are so large that they tend to intimidate people, but if the circumstances warrant, bite the bullet……

    Ann says:
    August 6, 2012 at 10:15 am
    Hi all. Used to post here a long time ago, maybe back in 2007? We bought a modest house in Bergen County in early 2008, so not quite peak price, but pretty close. We put 20% down, we have refinanced, so our payment is fine. Anyway, we were thinking of moving due to location/commute and to try to get a few other attributes we want. Our income has tripled since we bought this, so we are in a good position in that sense. Long story short, we are in a position to move up. But we can’t stomach the massive loss of equity, which is probably 100K, even though we have the cash to cover it and move on. We like our house enough, thank goodness, so here we shall stay and do something else with our extra income. Eh, we’re probably better off.

  65. thanks for posting such a nice article. people will be benefited for that. i am also helpfull for that. many important information are include in here.

  66. chicagofinance says:

    I am going to repost from earlier so it is clear…..the gist? The accountant is telling you that money was lost, but who gives a ….? If you can make your life better, get to work……under the correct decision parameters…..

    Ann: I will take off my avenging “Bitter Renter/Social Outcast/Below The Elite 140″ hat for a moment, and put on my professional one.

    If you are in position to make a financial decision that suits your individual goals, and is well considered, then what is the hesitation? You should feel at an advantage. You are not attempting to sell a larger home and downsize, but rather to use additional investment capital to increase your overall allocation to primary residence real estate. You are a winner here, as long as you stay within reasonable limitations in your new expense profile, and your increased income in 2012 is sustainable. The key is that your 2012 income reflects a recurring stream, and does not merely benefit from quirks in economic conditions, trends or fortunate recent personal events.

    The fact that you made the below post means you are already most of the way towards thinking clearly about this decision:

    Ann says:
    August 6, 2012 at 11:47 am
    #15 We also made fake money in the boom, which we them used as the down payment on this, so I guess I should just pretend that money never existed. Because it really never did

  67. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    One day, perhaps not far off in the future, the responsible renters of the cul-de-sac will be the pillars of the community. They will gather and have pleasant Bar-B-Ques with kegs of Schlitz and talk about the riff-raff of the neighborhood. “Oh Jeez, I can’t believe their sheriff sale was put off AGAIN! It looks like they haven’t washed either of their BMWs in weeks. You would think with all that copper tubing they cut off and carted out last week that their kids would at least have some decent phones.”

  68. Ernest Money says:

    chi (46)-

    You’re just another bitter renter. :)

  69. cobbler says:

    Ragnar [52]
    While not necessarily supporting a middle-class lifestyle for the degree holder, I believe the issuance of grants and federally guaranteed student loans should be dependent on the college major, abilities and integrity of the candidate. If the taxpayers allowed their money to be spent on a dummy getting a useless degree, they should take a loss – that is, a loan should be dischargeable in bankruptcy. The whole system should be aimed at pushing the students towards fields which are not necessarily their first choice, but where they are likely to get employment, hopefully at a middle-class level – not at spending taxpayers’ money to educate future waitstaff. This doesn’t exclude talented people going after liberal arts degrees… but only a small fraction of those going there now can be called talented.

  70. Ernest Money says:

    We are a nation of retards, being rendered even dumber through higher education.

    This is the last of the great bubbles and its implosion will finish us off.

  71. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [70] Final Doom, my friend – I agree this will be the *next* great bubble, but perhaps not the last. I agree it will be a humdinger.

    We are a nation of retards, being rendered even dumber through higher education.

    This is the last of the great bubbles and its implosion will finish us off.

  72. Shore Guy says:

    “It’s too harsh to demand that people actually think about whether there’s an economic market for the skills involved in a particular degree.”

    This touches on what is a very important point for higher-end housing. For parents who are earning a couple hundred grand a year, they often want their kids to go to “the best school possible” and very often live in communities that have schools that prepare kids well to make it into the “best” schools. Herein lies the rub, if one is very wealthy, paying $60,000/year/child is no problem. If one is in a lower/middle band of income, it is no problem as need-based scholarships will reduce the cost to that of a run-of-the-mill state school; however, for those, whom I will call Kulaks, try to cover the nut, it becomes a huge problem as they will not be considered “needy,” despite their cost of living. Self-employed people I know have been told by schools that their expected family contribution is a number tht is greater than their takehome income. The one couple asked about the calculation and numerous schools told them “you are saving over $75,000/year for retirement, just stop doing that and you can afford our tuition.”

    They have two kids four years apart and said that when they mentioned that all they will have to live on is whatever money they put into their retirement accounts and the schools say “so stop putting aside while they are in school. After all, it is only eight years.”

    This amazes me. If someone works from 21-71, 8 years is 16% of their worklife. If these folks are socking away $75,000 per year, the schools are telling parents “just shortchange your retirement contributions by $600,000 to pay for an undergraduate degree.” Any kulak who does this is nuts. We have been watching many children of pretty-high-earning folks we know deciding to send the kids to stsate schools, in or out of state. Of course, if it is out of state, they are still paying a good $40,000 a year – 3,300/month (paid with after-tax money), which likely means $6,000/month pre tax income.

    Tuition has got to be sucking out huge amounts of money that would otherwise be available to purchase housing. Add income and property taxes to this and the kulaks are scre-wed.

  73. reinvestor101 says:

    >>>Tuition has got to be sucking out huge amounts of money that would otherwise be available to purchase housing. Add income and property taxes to this and the kulaks are scre-wed.<<<<

    This is a bunch of commie socialist bullspit. I'M NOT GIVING UP THE DAMN AMERICAN DREAM. I will have my damn house, my damn Lexus and my damn kids will go to the best damn school even if I have to shoehorn their little asses in there. Hell, I've been trying to keep up with friends spending $ 20,000 for kindergarten in Manhattan. You can't get started soon enough on this damn stuff.

    What's your damn solution? Live in a damn squalid hovel and send my kids to some stinking community college? They'll be holding the ice follies in hell the day I do something that STUPID. The mere suggestion that I should downsize my damn dream makes me see RED.

  74. chicagofinance says:

    I wish I was aware of exactly which schools you are referring, because I would make it my personal business to publicize these pieces of sh!t and expose them for what they are. As a financial planner, this advice is exactly how you can run your ship aground. Whoever is responsible for the quote is either naive beyond comprehension or has balls of steel. What these administrators should do is physically impossible……

    Shore Guy says:
    August 6, 2012 at 9:30 pm
    The one couple asked about the calculation and numerous schools told them “you are saving over $75,000/year for retirement, just stop doing that and you can afford our tuition.” They have two kids four years apart and said that when they mentioned that all they will have to live on is whatever money they put into their retirement accounts and the schools say “so stop putting aside while they are in school. After all, it is only eight years.”

  75. Shore Guy says:

    Chifi,

    I hear it a lot with respect to the “well-regarded top-tier liberal arts schools.” I have also heard it about the Ivys and places like Northwestern, Vandy, etc. I think it is nuts.

  76. chicagofinance says:

    BTW – the uproar through academia in 2008-2009 after the hedge funds blew a hole in all these schools’ endowments was muted….only when the schools turned around in 2009-2010 and started swing the ax at the bloated and complacent communities did the bellyaching happen……to be diplomatic fcuk these people with an spiked mace……in addition to the genetic predisposition for these ivory tower turds to spill bile at the outside world (e.g., Krugman)….you can feel the vengence in their words as the insular halls of pomposity were besmirched…….

  77. Shore Guy says:

    The idea that folks would advocate that parents destroy their ability to fund retirement to pay bloated tuition is unfortunate. it is not like retirement plan savings is discretionary.

  78. morpheus says:

    74: does it make me a commie if I want an Ak-47? Please advise me all knowing, rock -ribbed conservative.

  79. Fabius Maximus says:

    When Brian puts up a list like that and it doesn’t include GE, my skeptic alert goes up. That’s why I want specifics on the source. You say “There is no question that the U.S. leads the world in technology and in the health sciences”, You know what, I don’t have a problem with that if there is support for the position. But, we can play with this, let’s define the world in the terms of the Forbes Global 2000. That is a big data set we can work with?
    http://www.forbes.com/global2000/#p_1_s_a0_Pharmaceuticals_All%20countries_All%20states_
    Yes the US is big in pharma, but not dominant. Now if you put up Biotech and you have a case for the US, but you have to put up a big caveat in that you have no idea what the likes of China are doing under the covers. In the spirit of the Olympics, look at what came out of East Germany in sports doping after the wall fell.

    “comfort with the tax proposals of the current Presidential administration” If you go back to 2006/07 on this board I am the only person on record here (JJ did allude to it once) to say that the Bush tax cuts were a mistake that the country could not afford and that should not have been made and should have expired already. They should not have been renewed in the debt ceiling fight and although I can see the $250K argument, it should be let go. Let all boats lift.

    As too your management conference. I think we are still waiting for the transcripts to go over the assertion that O is driving tech out of the US. I did point out that the majority of the discussion was focused around a tax amnesty for offshore deferred income, and that the CTJ blew a torpedo sized hole in that argument in that it would create jobs.

    Two words I live by, “”due diligence” it is a great debate leveler.

  80. Shore Guy says:

    “Yes the US is big in pharma, but not dominant. ”

    It used to be, but we managed to drive the industry to other shores.

    As for the Bush tax cuts. I have no problem with letting them expire. The thing I object to is folks cherry picking winners and losers and saying “let thes cuts expire but continure these other ones.” Our entire tax system has become a gsame of “let’s see whose ox we can gore, while protecting our own.” This leads to unhealthy divisions.

    The sad thing is that those who cry the loudest for fairness really do not want a fair tax system — they want someone else to pick up the tab for them.

  81. Fabius Maximus says:

    #7 Ann,
    What you are doing here is a sideways movement. Don’t think of it as a $100K loss. You have the house that you bought and are in and you have the house that you want to get into. You will have to inject some capital to move yourself up a tier. The 100K loss is can be offset by the $150-200K loss that the other side is taking in selling to you. If you had bought this house at the same time you bought your previous home, you would be further in the hole. This way you are getting a break.
    On the other side, if you are downsizing you are scr1ewed and “the first loss is your cheapest, so cut your losses”

  82. cobbler says:

    shore [81]
    Decay of U.S. Pharma was entirely self-managed, primarily by Pfizer that demonstrated unique value-destroying ability dealing with each of its many acquisitions. Merck was a distant second (destruction limited to Schering-Plough). None of the major foreign pharma players were as dumb and short-term oriented. Majority of pharma biology R&D work in the world is still done here (though not in NJ), chemistry is moving to Chindia.

  83. Fabius Maximus says:

    #73 Shore

    contributions by $600,000 to pay for an undergraduate degree.”
    I’m trying to think of a polite way of saying this, but I don’t think I will be able to. So apologies if there is any offense in this. But to be honest this is the same as the GOP needs to say to Mitt.
    For most of the middle class, socking away $75K for retirement is not an option. The income level to be considered upper middle class I think is around $100K. Now if you friend has worked their tax return so that they have $75-100K of retirement income and no federal income tax paid, they don’t exactly have a strong platform to complain from.

    If they are socking away $75K and still paying Federal, I think Eddie Ray wants to talk to them.

  84. cobbler says:

    chi [75]
    Despite the obviousness of your logic as a financial planner, there are many more people willing to pay 60K per year of tuition – even if they can ill afford it – to send their kids to Tier 1 schools than freshman slots there. How the lower ranked schools manage to dupe parents into paying full fare, I’ve got no clue; I guess the folks are afraid the kids would be upset if they don’t…

  85. chicagofinance says:

    If that is true…they may as well spend the money on the school, because the kids are going to bankrupt them anyway……single, 40, and living in their parents basement with a sociology degree……and driving a BMW 5-series……hanging at the Downtown in Red Bank…..

    cobbler says:
    August 7, 2012 at 12:07 am
    How the lower ranked schools manage to dupe parents into paying full fare, I’ve got no clue; I guess the folks are afraid the kids would be upset if they don’t…

  86. Shore Guy says:

    FM,

    It is not hard at all for two self-employed people to stick that much away, all it takes is for each to make at least $35,000 in profit, which they can stash into solo 401 (k) plans. Not that doing so will buy them a decent retirement. Say one has a couple putting aside $70,000 a year for 30 years. That gets them $2,1oo,000 in contributions. Say that grows 100% so they have $4,000,000 in funds to pay retirement. Being in retirement say they opt for safety over growth and they are existing in an environment like now where they get 1%. That pays them $40,000/year. And, most of the money in their account will likely get eaten in longterm care and hospital costs later in life.

    Many folks who are employed by others hear about business owners socking away money into retirement plans and assume they are working the system and getting over on everyone, it is just not the case for most of them, who just dont want to eat dog food when they are 80.

  87. Shore Guy says:

    “Now if you friend has worked their tax return so that they have $75-100K of retirement income and no federal income tax paid, they don’t exactly have a strong platform to complain from.”

    That is not what I said. The business owners I know pay around 60% total tax burden: Federal, state, Social security (employee and employer share), etc. After that, take out retirement contributions and most “rich” folks who are earning $500,000 or less have far less money available than many $100,000/year folks would think.

  88. Fabius Maximus says:

    #87 Shore

    I understand what you are saying, but that argument goes up against the 15k max salaried, people get to put away. Ok, you can add the $4K IRA, but how many here will parlay that into a Mitt 100Mil IRA?

    This discusssion needs perspective.

  89. Brian says:

    80 –
    Fabius, you know I was just quoting an article right? Did you even read the article?

    Regardless of the details, the main point was, Americans have something to be proud of, and can potentially still be competitive…maybe even dominant on a global stage.

    If you don’t mind me asking, where are you from?

  90. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [90] I think we lead the world in surfing the internet at work.

    Regardless of the details, the main point was, Americans have something to be proud of, and can potentially still be competitive…maybe even dominant on a global stage.

  91. Anon E. Moose says:

    Shore [87];

    I see the key to making the math work as pushing back the date of ‘retirement’, defining retirement as the date that you stop producing an earned income and begin to exclusively draw down on stored assets. In my line of work, so long as my mind stays sharp I see many examples of ‘elder statesmen’ continuing to produce an income well into their 70’s. Their retirement fund is an insurance policy only, and de facto inheritance. On the other hand, if you break rocks for a living, that’s not going to work out so well.

    However the idea that everybody is going to tear up their time card, collect their gold watch and sit on a beach from age 62 till they die without other serious ramifications is strictly for the Ameriprise commercials.

  92. chicagofinance says:

    I think you have touched on the relevant issue…….

    Brian says:
    August 7, 2012 at 6:43 am
    80 –
    Fabius,
    If you don’t mind me asking, where are you from?

  93. chicagofinance says:

    You are a broken record and one track mind…..further, heed your own advice….

    “This discusssion needs perspective.”

    Fabius Maximus says:
    August 7, 2012 at 12:44 am
    #87 Shore

    I understand what you are saying, but that argument goes up against the 15k max salaried, people get to put away. Ok, you can add the $4K IRA, but how many here will parlay that into a Mitt 100Mil IRA?

    This discusssion needs perspective.

  94. reinvestor101 says:

    >>>morpheus says:
    August 6, 2012 at 11:19 pm
    74: does it make me a commie if I want an Ak-47? Please advise me all knowing, rock -ribbed conservative.<<<<

    What the hell do you plan on doing with a damn Ak-47? In my damn book, that gun is for spineless wusses anyway. Here's what I the hell I'm strapped with:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIqUb4L3jA4

    No one and I mean no one, mucks with me.

  95. raging bull jj says:

    I am back from vacation!! The recession is still over. Glad to see NYC firefighter folk booking $1,000 a night vacations for their kids and showing up in 40K SUVs.

    See we are talking about retirement. The metric I read recently is you should make in the NYC area 10x your age in income to live comfortably. Just tell you boss. At 10X your age, you can easily max out 401k, 529 plan, company stock plans, 10k I bond, max Flex Spend and Transit Check and still knock off your mortgage and debt. It works nice cause at 60 when you have lots of college bills, weddings, buying you future retirement home you will be making 600K a year. Also means from 61-67 home stretch you can bank around 250K a year for retirment. Now dont get sick, dont get fired, dont make bad investments, only work in a profitable company in a profitable industry in a hot in demand profession and you are all set. Bill Gross would agree 100% with me.

  96. chicagofinance says:

    Moose: In my work, there a waaaay too many people with this attitude, and they take umbrage with the idea that they have been irresponsible baby boomers who spend too much money and lavish it on their dependent 20-30-something kids…..their punishment is that (egads) they need to work until 66-67……hit the gym you fat fcuk, maybe you won’t fall asleep at your desk…..

    Anon E. Moose says:
    August 7, 2012 at 8:52 am
    Shore [87];
    However the idea that everybody is going to tear up their time card, collect their gold watch and sit on a beach from age 62 till they die without other serious ramifications is strictly for the Ameriprise commercials.

  97. Brian says:

    96 – JJ

    Glad to have you back. There was a rumor going around while you were gone….we thought maybe you worked for Knight Captial or something cuz you disappeared around when the story broke……

  98. chicagofinance says:

    The persistent experience I have is the attention deficit I observe in telling a 40 year old that #1 he is never going to get promoted in his job because he is not keeping his skills current, and #2 he then is forcing himself to do the exact same job for the next 20+ years while hoping he doesn’t get canned…….no recognition…….even after I warn them that I literally see another client who is the mirror image, but 15 years older on the same day who just got whacked…….the attitude? If I ignore it, it will go away…….

  99. chicagofinance says:

    The End Is Nigh (Welcome Back JJ Edition):

    Romper rooms: Cheaters bare fave NY hotels
    By HELEN FREUND and DON KAPLAN

    The swank W Hotel on Lexington Avenue is the most popular spot in town for an extramarital fling, according to a survey ranking the top 10 city hotels where cheaters go to break their marriage vows.

    With the exception of the Holiday Inn on West 57th Street (No. 2), all of the hotels on the cheaters’ list are among the city’s most luxurious and include the Four Seasons (No.7) and the Sofitel (No.10) — a favorite of “Le Perv” Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the sex-scandal-plagued French politician.

    More than 3,000 members of Ashley Madison, an online dating service for cheaters, responded to the survey.
    Twenty-nine percent named the W as their favorite, putting it well ahead of the far less glamorous Holiday Inn.

    “I wonder if that was just a stand-in for cheaper places for people on second or third dates,” Ashley Madison founder Noel Biderman said.

    First-timers usually spring for pricier rooms, he said.

    “It looks like people believe that if they’re going to have an affair, they may as well get a hotel that makes an impression,” he said.

    The affairs do not go unnoticed by hotel staffers, who admit they will try to protect their “regular” customers.

    “I see men come in here all the time to cheat on their wives,” a Sofitel doorman said. “It happens all the time. I’ve seen wives have their husbands followed, and I’ve seen private eyes across the street taking pictures of them.”

    He said he once tipped off a regular cheater whose wife had followed him and was hiding in a car across the street.

    “He ended up waiting inside with the girl until his wife left and then sneaking out,” the doorman said. “Who am I to judge him? He’s a dog, for sure, but he’s a customer, and we all turn a blind eye to these kinds of things.”

    At the W yesterday, a doorman recalled nearly getting fired over a customer’s affair.

    “A couple of years ago, I almost got someone in trouble,” the doorman said. “There was a man, who was having an affair with someone, who had come in that week and then came in later again with his wife. I said something like, ‘Good to see you again,’ and she looked at me really weird.”

    He estimated the average for cheater customers is three stays a month, “but sometimes once or twice a week.”

  100. Anon E. Moose says:

    New School Economist “Chicken Little” Ghilarducci: ‘401k Plans Are Broken, Impossible’

    Unsaid is their preferred alternative, full-blown social(ist) pension. As I see it, the problem they have with 401k plans is that they can’t grab the money of the people who die young or with ‘too much money’ and redistribute it thos other who ‘need’ it.

    I suppose that there is an efficiency argument there — it is inefficient for everyone to save for the worst case sceanrio when the ‘risk’ of dying young v. living longer can be pooled, leaving everyone marginally better off. Not sure I buy that argument, but at least its not transparently laughable if anyone on the left would bother to make that case.

  101. Anon E. Moose says:

    Con’t [101]

    Linky

  102. scribe says:

    from ZeroHedge

    Robert Shiller Has A Chiller For Housing Recovery Hopes

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/robert-shiller-has-chiller-housing-recovery-hopes

  103. Ann says:

    #23 I remember Clot!
    Thank you Shore Guy and chifi, will research this.
    #61 Nicolas, we’re not underwater, we would still walk away with some cash even if we did sell at the current prices. Just lost a huge chunk of our equity and would like to move up now but would have to take a huge hit to do that and throw a lot of our own cash at it. So yeah, the decision is between pay on time or pay early, assuming we are going to be staying here for a long time. Have to figure out these calculations on pay it down early.
    66 chifi, the house still works for us well enough. It just isn’t our “dream house” anymore. But I see your point, 100K isn’t that much in the big scheme of things, just painful since the house is ok.
    82 Yes, there is that part too, but for some reason we are more focused on this loss, which of course is exacerbated by the realtor fees, moving costs, realty tax, etc.
    Thanks all!

  104. 1987 condo buyer says:

    Greetings from Aruba!! Better than NJ I feel. Plus staying at European hotel so I get a breather from the usuals! Insert in paper had som NYT articles, deflation in Japan bailing out their baby boomers and 2 generations of kids living off the grandparents pensions in Spain –warnings and precursors for the US perhaps.

  105. Ann says:

    Re the college talk, I totally agree that there are a lot of schools out there that are a major waste of $ but yet have somehow gotten reputations as good schools. I’m starting to think that the focus on college choice for many parents is more about what type of spouse their child will meet moreso than the education.

  106. gryffindor says:

    W Lexington – I’ve been to their Whiskey Blue bar and now it makes sense why it feels like Cougarville in there.

  107. Brian says:

    Zerohedge guys are incredibly bearish and hang on every negative word……

    judge for yourself…..here’s an interview with Robert Shiller.

    http://money.cnn.com/video/news/2012/07/27/n-shiller-home-prices.cnnmoney

    104.scribe says:
    August 7, 2012 at 9:20 am
    from ZeroHedge

    Robert Shiller Has A Chiller For Housing Recovery Hopes

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/robert-shiller-has-chiller-housing-recovery-hopes

  108. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    The tuition bubble will pop soon and the entire college paradigm will change. “University” in the UK is 3 years and you study only one thing (i.e. if your an English Lit major, you don’t take any courses except English Lit.) For those of us that were lucky enough to attend college when it was essentially a 4 year vacation culminating with a job where you felt rich on your first day of work, well, those days are done. I expect college will be replaced by a litany of 1 & 2 year programs, apprenticeships, certificate programs, etc. The number of 4 year colleges will shrink by more than half and become exclusive clubs for the rich and be recognized as exactly that.

  109. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [109]Grim was incredibly bearish when he started this blog. Bearish ≠ Wrong

    Zerohedge guys are incredibly bearish and hang on every negative word……

  110. Painhrtz - Yossarian says:

    Ex pat in some ways that is how it should be. If I would have been able to go into a 6 year medical program right out of high school like they do internationally I probably would have stayed on that track. Instead I did 4 years of science with general studies mixed in. finally started doing real science in the 2 years of graduate school. In a lot of ways though the European model is severely broken in that it limits access through rigid standardized tests which I could never see becoming common place here. If anything those tests should be in place for access to financial aid as stated above.

  111. Anon E. Moose says:

    Ex Pat [110];

    The number of 4 year colleges will shrink by more than half and become exclusive clubs for the rich and be recognized as exactly that.

    Thus completing the circle, because that’s what they were before the ‘everyone has to go to college’ mantra. Not to mention the number of business effectively abrogating their entry level human resource screening process to require a college degree in basketweaving for a job in the mail room.

  112. Brian says:

    Bearish ≠ Wrong

    I don’t disagree. However, I still prefer to hear Robert Shiller’s words directly from him, rather than have them filtered by the bloggers at zerohedge.

  113. cobbler says:

    expat [110]
    It is 3 years in England thanks to more advanced high school preparation, in most cases U.S. HS graduates can’t get into English universities unless they have IB diploma, etc. – that’s why they are crowding Scottish schools that are 4-year programs.

    For the bubble itself – yeah, apprenticeships is what we truly need for >50% of the HS grads, but unless we change the labor laws and allow companies to be able to engage into binding contracts with the trainees (say work for us 5 years after graduation at whatever we want to pay you, or return all the money we’d spent on your training back), will not happen. And I think indentured servitude is unsonstitutional or something, it only works in the military.

  114. AG says:

    Re:

    Universities,

    I agree that the UK model is better. Might be worth exploring dual citizenship for my kids.

    lex sanguinis: By birth abroad, which constitutes “by descent” if one of the parents is a British citizen otherwise than by descent (for example by birth, adoption, registration or naturalisation in the United Kingdom). British citizenship by descent is only transferable to one generation down from the parent who is a British citizen otherwise than by descent, if the child is born abroad.

  115. raging bull jj says:

    AHHH, it would have been exciting. Sadly, most people on wall st. are prohibited from owning Knight Stock as it is a market maker and/or customer for most of wall st. Otherwise it would have been a great buying opportunity.

    Brian says:
    August 7, 2012 at 9:07 am

    96 – JJ

    Glad to have you back. There was a rumor going around while you were gone….we thought maybe you worked for Knight Captial or something cuz you disappeared around when the story broke……

  116. raging bull jj says:

    Amateurs. My favorite back when I single was by far the Marriot Marquis in Time Square. Take drunk girl Bridge and Tunnel Girl, (NJ/LI) from a Thursday night happy hour around 10pm who has been drinking since 5pm. for one last drink at the View, get a table at window, order one or two drinks, then on way out push button for meeting and conference room floor. Surprisingly, if you are in a suit the meetings and stuff wrap up around ninish, the smaller conference rooms with the one large conference room table in middle actually lock from inside. I guess if you want to prevent people from entering your meeting while in session. Stroll inside, lock door and use the table for a little Evening Delight, nice bathroom outside for girl to freshen up and be a gentleman and escort her to the LIRR or Port Authority bus. Those expensive hotels first are expensive. Second what type of girl goes for that? Gold diggers. You have to get a girl caught up in moment.

    chicagofinance says:
    August 7, 2012 at 9:13 am

    The End Is Nigh (Welcome Back JJ Edition):

    Romper rooms: Cheaters bare fave NY hotels
    By HELEN FREUND and DON KAPLAN

  117. Shore Guy says:

    We could go a long way towards deflating the education bubble by giving all students who finish in the top 10% of their graduating class — and, to prevent gaming the system too badly, score at least some reasonable number on a national test. Those inthe top 25% and who score at a certain level on “the test” would be eligible for loans, up to the amount necessary for four years at their states’ flagship university — they could use the money anywhere but, would not get unlimited loan money. Those who do not achieve well enough in high school and “the test” to reach either of these levels, but who scored in the top 50% of high school would get a free ride at the local community college; if they maintained a 3.0 average and completed a degree, they would then be eligible for tuition waiver at a state school and be eligible for loans to pick up the slack for the last two years at the flagship university maximum.

    Those who did not do well enough to get the aid above, could enroll in trade school (with assistance to those who show promise) , go to work, or can go to community college (or anyplace else for that matter) buth they need to pay their way. One would want to give them a route to tuition assistance and loans so tht those who get their acts together a bit later in life can better themselves and society.

    I would suggest that making loans and grants available based on society’s current needs at any moment is not unreasonable and college programs that do not successfully prepare graduates or prepare them to get jobs that require degrees might not be things taxpayers should be funding. If someone wants to spend their own money to study something of little value to the rest of society, have at it — just be prepared to pay for the experience.

  118. Shore Guy says:

    I also get the impression that for good high schools the junior year is the important one and most of senior year is a waste. I suspect that most high-achieving seniors would be better served taking a 1/2 load of college classes rather than coasting through largely-meaningless classes that last year.

  119. cobbler says:

    shore [119]
    Where is the dotted line to sign your petition?
    The thing to add to the program should be the express prohibition for the public schools from dispensing any aid of their own, except maybe work-study and (to keep football/basketball/swimming etc. tradition in place) athletic scholarships for maybe 2% of the class.
    I don’t know however how to deal with the leading private schools – they are the obvious “compressors” blowing up the tuition bubble. I guess, making non-instructional and non-research buildings on campus a taxable RE may help a bit. What else?

  120. chicagofinance says:

    Speaking as a financial planner…..Fordham, Tulane, Syracuse, Seton Hall and their ilk are verboten……..unless you are rich, your kid is mediocre, hence this group becomes a dream school. These schools are moving to a buy admission model in the future……another one to keep an eye on is Delaware……Christie went there at it is a hot school right now, but it is FCUKIN expensive and they give no aid. Your kid better be going for engineering/CS, or cross it off…..

    Ann says:
    August 7, 2012 at 9:29 am
    Re the college talk, I totally agree that there are a lot of schools out there that are a major waste of $ but yet have somehow gotten reputations as good schools. I’m starting to think that the focus on college choice for many parents is more about what type of spouse their child will meet moreso than the education.

  121. chicagofinance says:

    For the ambitious kids, senior year is a right of passage. A lot of them can get fried to a crisp by the grind leading up to the fall/winter-intersession. They deserve a chance to collect themselves a bit and form an identity before they go to college…..unless they have helicopter parents. Then the kid is already permanently lobotomized and needs the help of the Obamunists……..

    Shore Guy says:
    August 7, 2012 at 12:14 pm
    I also get the impression that for good high schools the junior year is the important one and most of senior year is a waste. I suspect that most high-achieving seniors would be better served taking a 1/2 load of college classes rather than coasting through largely-meaningless classes that last year.

  122. Shore Guy says:

    Chifi,

    Places like Bates, Colby, the Ivys, they have no interest in helping any but the “needy.” While, on the one hand I understand the perspective, on the other hand I see smart kids from kulak families who score better than and have achieved more than kids who get, essentially, free rides to these places but they cannot go to theses schools because mom and dad are not really rich and they, wisely, choose not to impoverish themselves to pay a tuition bill.

  123. Shore Guy says:

    Chifi,

    You will appreciate this, for kids living up in NY, the statutory schools at Cornell provide a pretty good value.

  124. chicagofinance says:

    Shore Guy says:
    August 7, 2012 at 12:31 pm
    Chifi, You will appreciate this, for kids living up in NY, the statutory schools at Cornell provide a pretty good value.

    Shore: My family were NYC residents when I matriculated. When my brother and I were simultaneously in undergrad, we both had minimal tuitions. After my sophomore year my grandmother died and my mom received an inheritance. I did not want her to spend it on school, so I transferred from A&S/Economics to CALS/AgEc. My “sticker-price” tuition dropped 70%. I received an A+ in accounting, and the son of one of the (then) Trustees of the school became a good friend. I guess the move was not all bad.

  125. I truly enjoy looking at on this internet site, it contains fantastic blog posts. “A short saying oft contains much wisdom.” by Sophocles.

  126. raging bull jj says:

    Fordham, Tulane, Syracuse, Seton Hall and Delaware are all good schools for finding jobs later in life. Alumni is tight. Chamanade high school where kids can go to any college a huge amount signed up for Delaware this year. Kids who could have gotten into better and cheaper schools, cause it is cool.

    Speeding up school for men anyhow is useless. They really should make it a mandatory five year. Pretty much any man under 30 is useless. Speeding up school for women makes sense. They mature quicker and many are gone from workforce by 35. They really only have 22-34 to make their career. Men can flounder around, AKA me. And around 35 re-invent themselves by going back for MBA at night, getting married with a stay at home wife and kids who is serious about their career. He can get rid of stink of party boy. Plus so distanced from college no one cares about school or GPA. Women come 35 have an anchor thrown around their necks. They dont have lux I have. My wife as soon as she came to work with engagement ring on she was done for good. Boss knew, next was distraction of wedding, then buying first home, then first kid and then she was quiting. In fact when she quit he took her aside and said you are doing right thing, you should be home with kids unlike these other women here kids who put work ahead of children, and threw in I would not let my wife work. Wife already resigned had exit interview so nothing she could really say but thanks.

    Bottom line Chifi did not need to go to that fancy school. He is a white married man with kids who looks like he knows what he is doing. Customers are stupid. For instance a laid off middle aged good looking distinguished man with a couple of good suits and a new caddy could second day on job do better as a realtor than a recently minted Harvard MBA. It just looks good.

    Pretty much any guy on this website if I was your mentor and you listed and followed instructions I could make you a multi millionaire in five years. I tried this experiment with a good looking, well dressed, well spoken slackard who was my mentee once who complained he kept getting passed up for promotion, sure enough he got promoted in six months. I guaranteed it, then he went back to slacking, said he did not like doing what I tell him, even though he thinks it is wrong thing to do, yet it works. Guy was such a Prima Donna.

    chicagofinance says:
    August 7, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Speaking as a financial planner…..Fordham, Tulane, Syracuse, Seton Hall and their ilk are verboten……..unless you are rich, your kid is mediocre, hence this group becomes a dream school. These schools are moving to a buy admission model in the future……another one to keep an eye on is Delaware……Christie went there at it is a hot school right now, but it is FCUKIN expensive and they give no aid. Your kid better be going for engineering/CS, or cross it off…..

  127. Essex says:

    128. JJ’s very own program. Now that is GOLD people.

  128. 1987 condo buyer says:

    My son applied to 9 state schools. Most are now pretty competitive since their tuition is comparatively more reasonable. His pick, NC State, only takes A students and pretty competitive for out of state. Penn State is a lmost $40k, Delaware is $38, although he did get money from them. UMD is also mid thirties. Most of these said you better keep your A average through senior year, many wanted mid year grades before accepting

  129. Essex says:

    The thing is, we form groups, some effective, some not. We get caught up in cycles larger than the business itself. These various often failed and sometimes successful enterprises are make or break. Sometimes being a success is timing and making the right alliances with a group that is going in the right direction. Sounds easy, right?

  130. Brian says:

    128 –
    Unvarnished truth…….

  131. raging bull jj says:

    Name of issuer Gaylord Entertainment Company
    Industry Consumer Products & Services – Hotels Restaurants & Dining
    Security type Common Stock
    Expected size of offering 5,643,129 Shares
    Expected price range $37.51 as of close on August 6, 2012

    I have to giggle at this IPO. Funny this morning I saw an REO from a man who went broke named Mr. Ramdass. Really, Ram D Ass, the bank should have known he would default.

  132. raging bull jj says:

    Baurch 4k and a bus ticket. I would never hire from these fancy pants schools. Drives me nuts. I get kids with college loans out their ears who had taste of freedom at college who want a place in city and want me to pay for it all. Give me a nice first generation Queens kid who went to a local college and stayed at home. Wont be busting my chops for a promo every five minutes

    1987 condo buyer says:
    August 7, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    My son applied to 9 state schools. Most are now pretty competitive since their tuition is comparatively more reasonable. His pick, NC State, only takes A students and pretty competitive for out of state. Penn State is a lmost $40k, Delaware is $38, although he did get money from them. UMD is also mid thirties. Most of these said you better keep your A average through senior year, many wanted mid year grades before accepting

  133. xolepa says:

    (124) Sorry, Shore Guy, but you are wrong on that. Being the father of 3 children all who have graduated or are matriculating at the group of colleges you mentioned, I am well qualified to comment on your statement. I also have a nephew in one of the top 2 Ivies and here is the way it works: Number one is sports. the Ivies have to maintain their Division I status at all costs. They will admit and fund athletes who are mere mortals intellectually. Harvard has the unwritten code that 1600 SATS are OK if you can win them games. Cornell educates some of their Athletes/recruits at the local community college until they get up to par. Convenient arrangements abound throughout the League.
    The NESCAC schools are all NCAA Division 3 and must submit to scrutiny of the NCAA when it comes to grants for athletes vs. grants to non-athletes. There can be no more than a 5% deviation on grants between those two groups. One of the NESCAC schools mentioned happens to be where my daughter is headed. Their average financial grant is $38k! That means that the average tuition out of pocket for those with assistance is about $20k. Compare that to any state college, private or public in the NorthEast.
    As to my older nephew, he got in because of other talents. His younger brother is going to state college with a free ride because he joined ROTC on campus. No one can complain that the opportunity isn’t there. He will owe the country his service, but that’s OK. It was his choice. It is just one of many choices in life. All choices, naturally, come with consequences, good or bad. But there will always be consequences.

  134. chicagofinance says:

    Was the case, not anymore…..kids want to go to Fordham because Michael Kay announces for the Yankees and Mike Breen for the Knicks. It was something, but now it is just a life destroyer. I see a lot of Rutgers versus Delaware on the graduated side. Rutgers are making all kinds of life choices….Delaware a either #1 screwed or #2 unhappy working sweatshop hours to pay for debts……..22 year olds with $105K-$140K in debt and a $55K salary…..doom….
    raging bull jj says:
    August 7, 2012 at 1:03 pm
    Fordham, Tulane, Syracuse, Seton Hall and Delaware are all good schools for finding jobs later in life. Alumni is tight. Chamanade high school where kids can go to any college a huge amount signed up for Delaware this year. Kids who could have gotten into better and cheaper schools, cause it is cool.

  135. xolepa says:

    ..And what gets me to smile is that the older 3 boys in my namesake are on track to make more money coming out of college/professional school than that guy on this forum who professes great knowledge, wealth and masculinity.

  136. Juice Box says:

    U of D lol how the heck does that place command $38k?

    Oh wait here it is. Great Place to work for sure, a degree in Beer Pong? Not so much…

    1:10 p.m., Aug. 7, 2012–The University of Delaware has been named one of the best colleges in the nation for which to work, according to the Chronicle of Higher Education’s 2012 Great Colleges to Work For program.

    UD was one of 103 colleges and universities recognized in the fifth annual survey of faculty and staff conducted by the journal.

    UD was cited for its “Compensation and Benefits,” marking the fourth straight year that the University has been cited in the category.

    http://www.udel.edu/udaily/2013/aug/ud-great-colleges-080712.html

  137. NJCoast says:

    College and grad school for the kids done and paid for thanks to real estate bubble. Now the weddings! Beware parents -even with the simplest of affairs-at home ceremony, dinner in the barn for 100, with meat, produce, and cheese coming straight from Vermont farm, free beer supplied by the groom’s Hill Farmstead brew is costing tens of thousands of $$$. You might not think so now but even JJ will shell out the big $$$$$ for his little girl. Start saving.

  138. daddyo says:

    Posted in yesterday’s thread…

    Nom – can i get your email? I have a friend who might be moving to westfield and he is considering renting for a bit to get the lay of the land…

  139. 1987 condo buyer says:

    Scranton gets $56,000

  140. Comrade Nom Deplume says:
  141. raging bull jj says:

    I hope so. But unless you charge them rent, make them pay for their own college and still make them do home repairs, mow lawn and help cook and clean and buy their own clothes and car while in school it really is cheating. They miss out on a lot of skills having things handed to them on a silver spoon.

    But luckily I have never had an illness and never got fired or laid off. I say at my age 99% of people have been out sick, or got laid off at some point which are set backs. I applied for jobs at Lehman and Bear over the years and was lucky I was not at any when crash happened. Plenty a person smarter them me lost a lot in 2008.

    What majors are they taken that pay more than me? I want to know so I can switch careers.

    xolepa says:
    August 7, 2012 at 2:05 pm

    ..And what gets me to smile is that the older 3 boys in my namesake are on track to make more money coming out of college/professional school than that guy on this forum who professes great knowledge, wealth and masculinity.

  142. Juice Box says:

    re: #139 – NY Metro has a lock on the wedding hall bubble for years.
    I have seen nothing like it anywhere else in the country. Fountains of Prosciutto, mountains of cheese and carving/cooking stations from every ethnicity with enough Hors d’oeuvres to feed an entire village in some god forsaken place for an entire year all shoved down the gullet in an hour as plates go flying in every direction.

    That is another bubble that will pop.

  143. Juice Box says:

    I have a nice intern this year who will be heading off to Monmouth in the fall. He will be living home and commuting. About $28k, parents are covering all of it minus his scholarship. So Perhaps 20k out of pocket. Kid works hard and is learning while he is here. Best intern I have had in a while, the other intern is a snot nose rich kids who does nothing but text all day and take off and hide in the building whenever he can. He is going to a NESAC but daddy is loaded so his biggest worry will be how to keep his credit card charged and his fridge fully stocked.

  144. Shore Guy says:

    Xolepa,

    You missed the point. I was not talking about students deemed to have need. In fact I highlighted the grants those students receive. I was pointing to the plight of kids who are not from rich families but who are deemed not to have need.

  145. xolepa says:

    (146) I told my kids as they approached college years that they need not consider applying to any school other than the more prestigious. It would be either that or state school. My parents paid $376 a semester to attend Rutgers back in the 70s. All worked out fine except for the decisions not to study hard enough. As for the more prestigious schools, it was not so much the name of the college as the contacts (i.e., drinking buddies, frat brothers, etc.) that you keep. And those contacts can come in handy later in life. Their parents, by percentages, can afford a better lifestyle for their children and their children reward their friends. It is certainly working out based upon the company the kids keep.
    As to the question of professions, in order of oldest to youngest:
    1) Anasthesiologist
    2) MD – specialty TBD
    3) Financial Engineer – his father sold his company to a Fortune 300 financial firm. I think enough contacts remain in the business.

  146. Ernest Money says:

    chi (99)-

    You deal with a much bigger class of idiot than I ever encountered as a Realtor. I’m amazed you haven’t assaulted some of these people.

  147. Ernest Money says:

    xo (135)-

    Exactly. My kid is a decent student, getting mad skolarship/grant money to play lax at a skool that is ostensibly way above her weight class academically.

    The one thing I didn’t think would happen is that she would do well in skool. So far she has, and I think all involved on the admin end are breathing a sigh of relief.

  148. raging bull jj says:

    I have no clue how Anesthesiologist or Mds survive. They rack up 100’s of thousands of dollars for school, make peanuts till almost 35 and then once money starts coming in it is like tops 400K a year. Plus all that malpractice, then you get your own practice lots of headaches. Anyone I know who is a doctor doesnt want their kids doing it.
    I think orthadontia, implants, lasik type stuff is better, go to a SUNY school and start banging people for like 5k a shot with no medical.

    Although after taking a quelude back when I was 18 I did develop a respect for the Anasthesiologist.

    My buddies who partied hard all did fine. My buddy who graduated Stony Brook with a 1.97 went to university of grenada medical school and did his residency in Europe and then took mskips to practice in USA is doing great. Damm hospitals and insurance companies dont pay more if you went to a better school. He gets paid the same. That guy slept with hundreds of women and never studied. Funny story in England first patent he saw was first live patent ever, Grenada only had used cadivers, they actually bought them from american medical schools dirt cheap partial cut up. He only jammed for tests in Grenada.

    I have no clue what the GPA is of anyone I work with nor do I care. The GPA is a big thing for like 36 months after graduation.

    xolepa says:
    August 7, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    (146) I told my kids as they approached college years that they need not consider applying to any school other than the more prestigious. It would be either that or state school. My parents paid $376 a semester to attend Rutgers back in the 70s. All worked out fine except for the decisions not to study hard enough. As for the more prestigious schools, it was not so much the name of the college as the contacts (i.e., drinking buddies, frat brothers, etc.) that you keep. And those contacts can come in handy later in life. Their parents, by percentages, can afford a better lifestyle for their children and their children reward their friends. It is certainly working out based upon the company the kids keep.
    As to the question of professions, in order of oldest to youngest:
    1) Anasthesiologist
    2) MD – specialty TBD
    3) Financial Engineer – his father sold his company to a Fortune 300 financial firm. I think enough contacts remain in the business.

  149. chicagofinance says:

    Ernest Money says:
    August 7, 2012 at 3:52 pm
    chi (99)- You deal with a much bigger class of idiot than I ever encountered as a Realtor. I’m amazed you haven’t assaulted some of these people.

    clot: After they get whacked, they have their come-to-Jesus moment and hand me a rollover…..then they ask me to rehabilitate them. If I am going to be well paid, and the client becomes coachable through hard-knocks, then it is not a bad gig. I hate to have it happend this way; I can rationalize that it was inevitable; seems all so unnecessary…..

  150. chicagofinance says:

    JJ: xolepa is a landlord; his stupid pathetic renters threw so much money at him, that he paid for medical school for his kids with the rent roll …… AFTER EXPENSES…..
    SILLY RENTER, TRIX ARE FOR KIDS…..

    raging bull jj says:
    August 7, 2012 at 4:17 pm
    I have no clue how Anesthesiologist or Mds survive. They rack up 100′s of thousands of dollars for school, make peanuts till almost 35 and then once money starts coming in it is like tops 400K a year.

  151. xolepa says:

    Not just a landlord. Couldn’t survive on bread crumbs that way. I also have a professional IT job, but am allowed to work from home 4 days a week. Also have a side retail business with several employees. Life sure is busy.

  152. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    xolepa’s into everything except showers. Otherwise he wouldn’t be allowed in his high yield ethnic credit union.

  153. houseshaveneeds says:

    147 what a fcuking blowhard!!

  154. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Getting ad hominem here again. Curiously, it doesn’t involve me and schabadoo, or jamil and libtard. Weird feeling.

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