Does real estate need an open bid system?

From HousingWire:

Power of real estate listing agents questioned

Real estate professionals who are watching housing bidding wars in places like California and Massachusetts are beginning to question whether real estate listing agents have too much power in the sales process.

They fear that in some cases listing agents are involved in a type of insider trading, where they decide the winning bidders without having to provide information on every bid offered.

Bill Wendel, a consumer advocate that founded Real Estate Café, an Internet site for do-it-yourself homebuyers, fears that in Massachusetts, listing agents are using phantom bidders — or bidding information that is never disclosed publicly to all parties — to push up the sale price. Whether it’s occurring or not, he wants more transparency.

“If you are a buyer’s agent, this is what you are paid to do. You are paid to help people make informed decisions. And if you are involved in a decision that is made in the blind, you cannot do your job adequately,” Wendel explained.

And he’s not the only one concerned.

Scott Stockdale launched Clear Offer in Southern California. The new online technology firm aims to bring clarity to the real estate transaction process by giving all of the parties involved time-stamped information on bids.

“The main driver (for launching the product) was the frustration coming from the buyer side of the market where they submit multiple offers and never hear anything back,” Stockdale said. “The whole concept is to create fairness to buyers and maximize seller proceeds.”

Stockdale said California agents are more frustrated with many properties selling for amounts lower than competing bids. This type of situation fosters fears that listing agents are involved in an insider’s game.

“Listings agents are controlling the offer, and they are the least interested in the transaction,” Stockdale said. “The back-end of our system allows asset managers to review offers on REOs.” The product also is designed to help with short sales, according to Stockdale.

Listing agents legally need a seller’s permission to reveal other’s bidding information. But the Clear Offer system gives those wanting to promote full clarity, the option to make offers private or public, Stockdale said.

While technology can address some of these concerns, both Stockdale and Wendel believe something should be done legislatively to make the transaction more apparent to all parties.

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237 Responses to Does real estate need an open bid system?

  1. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  2. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Realogy Shares Surge on Hopes for Recovery in Housing Market

    Investors drove shares of Realogy Holdings Corp. up more than 25% on its first day of trading Thursday, the latest in a string of successful initial public offerings of real-estate companies.

    Realogy, which owns Century 21, Coldwell Banker, Sotheby’s International and other big residential brokerage franchises, raised $1.1 billion by selling shares that were intially priced at $27 on the New York Stock Exchange. By the close of trading, the price had risen to $34.20.

    Realogy’s offering, the third-largest U.S. IPO this year according to markets-research firm Ipreo, is the strongest sign yet that investors are eager to find a way to bet that home sales and home prices will rise in the coming years. “People recognize a nascent housing recovery and an improving economy,” Richard A. Smith, Realogy’s chief executive, said in an interview.

    But Realogy depends on continuing growth in home sales volume and improving home prices. While the company is using most of the IPO’s proceeds to pay down debt, it still has high leverage that might prove a headache if the economy deteriorates and the housing market doesn’t hit projections.

  3. can i AX a question? says:

    how was the debate last night? who won?

  4. grim says:

    From Reuters:


    U.S. long way from true housing recovery: Home Depot CEO

    The U.S. housing market is starting to thaw, but it could be two years before a full-blown recovery takes hold, Home Depot Inc Chief Executive Frank Blake said on Thursday.

    The world’s largest home improvement retailer has seen the benefits of the nascent U.S. housing recovery as professional contractors have started buying more in recent months.

    “It’s starting to recover, but we’re a long way away from true recovery,” Blake told Reuters in a wide-ranging interview.

    He said Home Depot, which recently closed its stores in China, plans to concentrate on building its Internet business rather than overseas expansion.

    “The way we look at it is there’s going to be a period of a workout, a fine period of one to two years and then you’re going to get a more robust recovery,” Blake said.

    Credit availability and the overhang of distressed housing are among the reasons the housing market can’t “just spring back” to where it was before the recession, Blake said.

  5. Comrade Nom Deplume in PA says:

    Don’t know who won but pretty sure we lost.

  6. Fast Eddie says:

    Biden was a cackling monkey screaming and flailing away like an angry drunk in the corner of some dive on Communipaw Avenue.

  7. grim says:

    Some idiot down in Cumberland county arguing that seniors shouldn’t have to pay school taxes. Look, I have no problem helping you argue the fact that school taxes are too high, and that the public education system in NJ is inefficient and wasteful. But to exclude seniors from paying taxes whilst simultaneously deriving a benefit from it? Nonsense. Public education is a public good, everyone benefits from it, kids or no kids.

    Remember, the kids in school today are going to be the ones funding your SSI and Medicare benefits, they are also the ones you saddled with the debts that you incurred, you damn well better be concerned that they are well educated and well paid enough to support you.

  8. Marty says:

    I love how CEO’s can predict the future, but I guess financial news outlets wouldn’t have anything to talk about……so you better buy HD stock today before its 150 in 2 years. funny HD is now offering 2 years no interest on purchases over 399, I remember when it was just 6 months. Kinda like buying a 40k dollar pick up over 7 years

  9. NJCoast says:

    Grim congrats on your upcoming new arrival. I just had a departure of sorts last week (daughter got married). The next 20 years will be a blur, then like Bobby on Dallas you’ll come out of the shower and wonder if it was all just a dream.
    Enjoy.

  10. Ann says:

    7 I say everyone pay for the own kids’ schooling. My parents paid for ours, we pay for our kids, I dunno.

  11. Fast Eddie says:

    They fear that in some cases listing agents are involved in a type of insider trading, where they decide the winning bidders without having to provide information on every bid offered.

    They tried this tactic on us 11 years ago when houses were getting multiple bids, sight unseen, within hours of hitting the market. Twice we bid on houses only to be told to “keep bidding and we’ll let you know if you win.” Right. It’s disgusting and skeevy, pretty like the majority of the used house sale strategy. If there’s other offers, then prove it.

  12. JJ's B.S says:

    The U.S. housing market is still recovering from the bubble that started deflating five years ago, but the bank said it is hopeful about the outlook for residential real estate.

    “We believe the housing market has turned the corner,” Chief Executive Jamie Dimon said in a statement.

  13. Anon E. Moose says:

    *whistles*

  14. JJ's B.S says:

    I had this talk with my mother in law once. She was like I have no kids in public school. I was like what are you talking about. You have 8 grandkids all who have attended, are attending or will attend public schools. Currently you have three in public schools at a cost of around 45K a year and you pay 5k in school taxes. If you never married or had kids I could see no school taxes in old age. But seniors often have 5-15 kids in public schools yet whine about paying 5k in school taxes.

    grim says:
    October 12, 2012 at 6:57 am

    Some idiot down in Cumberland county arguing that seniors shouldn’t have to pay school taxes. Look, I have no problem helping you argue the fact that school taxes are too high, and that the public education system in NJ is inefficient and wasteful. But to exclude seniors from paying taxes whilst simultaneously deriving a benefit from it? Nonsense. Public education is a public good, everyone benefits from it, kids or no kids.

    Remember, the kids in school today are going to be the ones funding your SSI and Medicare benefits, they are also the ones you saddled with the debts that you incurred, you damn well better be concerned that they are well educated and well paid enough to support you.

  15. Libtard in Union says:

    Here’s another Captain Cheapo five-fingered credit card recommendation that should not be ignored. You should easily be able to bag between $1,000 and $2,000 per year with this offer if you play your cards right. See what I did there?

    http://www.mymoneyblog.com/us-bank-cash-plus-visa-signature-card-review.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Mymoneyblog+%28My+Money+Blog%29

  16. grim says:

    7 I say everyone pay for the own kids’ schooling. My parents paid for ours, we pay for our kids, I dunno.

    Aside from this being a regressive tax on the poor, it will have the unintended consequence of establishing an even more stratified class system in the US. So yes, you can pay for your kids to go to an alternate school, but you must first pay your share to enable all kids to go to the public one. While you may not have a child currently deriving the direct benefit (or not at all), you are still consuming the overall benefits and societal improvements that are as a result of the program.

    From an ECON perspective, this is essentially a textbook example of the Free Rider Problem. Someone can derive some or all of a benefit of a good, without having to pay anything towards their share of it’s use/benefit. Like I said above, a better educated population provides a number of direct and indirect benefits for the entire population. Whether you like it or not, you are the recipient of those benefits.

    On the flip side, you can argue those who move into a school district for the sole purpose of getting their kids in a better school, and then move out upon gradutation, are free riders. I agree it’s easy to flip the argument. A rich DINK couple paying with a nice house on Ridgewood Ave, are paying $27k in property taxes with no kids in school. And you’ve got a poor family with 5 kids on the South side, paying $12k in property taxes. The poor family gets the benefit of 5 kids worth of education, and the dinks get “nothing” as they have no kids.

    While I acknowedge the appeal of the latter argument, my position is that the societal benefits of education far outweigh the sum of the benefits associated with an individual child’s education.

  17. 30 year realtor says:

    Regarding real estate open bidding…I have an obligation to my seller and the truth. I will not lie to get more money for a seller.

    It has been my experience that sellers obtain a higher sale price in a blind multiple offer situation than in an open bid.

  18. JJ's B.S says:

    Why do dinks need any benefit. If you have twice the income and no kids and no one to leave the money to anyhow who cares.

  19. JJ's B.S says:

    That is how fannie mae does it and they dont even tell listing agent the offers from the other agents all the time

    It has been my experience that sellers obtain a higher sale price in a blind multiple offer situation than in an open bid.

  20. yome says:

    Is it florida that use consumption tax to pay for schools? Maybe a good idea,even tourist are paying into it

  21. Brian says:

    16 -
    Ask the young girl in Pakistan who was shot in the head by the Taliban how important an education is. The Taliban know that an educated woman is much harder to oppress.

    An educated populace and it’s benefits to society far outweigh any unfairness a retired person or DINKs whine about.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/a-profile-courage-article-1.1181476?localLinksEnabled=false

  22. Libtard in Union says:

    Fast Eddie,

    Nearly every house we bid on, including the one we bought which was on the market 200+ days, we were told by the selling agent that there was a competing bid. On the first house, we went up and the stubborn fools didn’t take it. That was the house that the sellers ended up renting in what was supposed to be a three year lease, but the tenants broke the lease half way through and destroyed the place causing the owners to have to renovate it. They eventually sold it for pretty close to what we offered them. The second house we bid on was during the last weekend of the homebuyer rebate (what a joke). 3 offers came in supposedly. We said our was final as it was already too high. Low and behold, there was a higher offer that somehow mysteriously disappeared the next day. We told the realtor that we wanted to see another house that was coming online the following day before we committed to that house. They ended up taking the third offer which I think was lower than ours, but immediate. Finally, on our eventual purchase, the selling agent, who was impossible to get a hold of (voice mail full and never answered her phone), claimed a competing bid. Since we lowballed and the house was on the market forever, I confidently said, take the other offer. Of course, there was no other offer. My advice to all is to buy a house like you should buy a car. Know what you are willing to spend and make a last and final offer on your first offer. If someone else is supposedly competing with you, let them be the overspending suckers and move on. Chances are, there is no competing offer.

  23. JJ's B.S says:

    School Taxes barely pay for the cost of school. Federal and States chip in too and that tax money comes from everywhere.

    Last year I paid around $5,900 in school taxes and have three kids in public schools. Even if my taxes were $25,900 I still be ahead of private school. BTW the private elementary school near my office at work charges 40K a year. Also a lot of catholic schools shut down over last 25 years so there is no longer that large low cost network of private schools to do a voucher system. The fancy private schools are sometimes triple the cost of public schools. Vouchers originally were thrown around when public schools were 9k and catholic schools were 2k.

    yome says:
    October 12, 2012 at 8:56 am

    Is it florida that use consumption tax to pay for schools? Maybe a good idea,even tourist are paying into it

  24. Libtard in Union says:

    Why live in a town where you pay a premium in property taxes for the better schools if you don’t have any children using them? Move to the border and be done with it.

  25. Fast Eddie says:

    Libtard [22],

    Agree.

  26. grim says:

    24 – I always thought Stonehouse was one of the greatest arbitrage opportunities in GR. Start off on one side of the street with no kids, have a kid, move across the Street into GR. Kids graduate, move back across the street into Bloomfield. You could essentially live on the exact same street for years, but swap your taxes as appropriate.

    Of course, Bloomfield taxes aren’t what they used to be anymore. Might just be cheaper to stay.

  27. Libtard in Union says:

    In other news, Jamie Dimon has called the bottom in housing.

  28. NJGator says:

    Lib 22- The third bid on the Harvard Street house was legit. And they didn’t take a lower bid than ours because it was “immediate”. They shopped our bid back to those folks, who must have been paranoid about missing the credit/not getting their kid into town in time for school. The third place bidder wound up increasing their offer to outbid us by 10k.

    And the sellers who rented instead of selling to us wound up taking $45k less than we offered them 2 1/2 years earlier….after they had to sink at least $20k into fixing the place up.

  29. Libtard in Union says:

    Bloomfield taxes are actually higher than in Montclair and Glen Ridge. Years of corruption in the local government, while the uninformed populace didn’t pay attention, have created that nightmare. Much better staying in virtually debt-free GR. Montclair is doomed from a capital debt standpoint. I saw a new police cruiser last night in Montclair. It looked like Kit from Knight Rider. Probably the best cruiser one could buy today. It’s a good thing too, as Montclair’s speed limits top out at 35mph.

  30. NJGator says:

    Grim – Belated congratulations! How exciting….but how did you mess up like us and miss the Kindergarten cut off date? :) I am looking forward to fast forwarding 5 years from now when Captain Cheapo will be b*tching about that extra year of preschool tuition.

  31. Libtard in Union says:

    Who is this NJGator person? I sit corrected. Though still glad as hell the 3rd bidder removed us. Was not looking forward to rebuilding that rotting deck.

  32. NJGator says:

    Grim 26 – Our faux GR friends on Stonehouse pay over $15k in taxes to send their kids to Bloomfield schools. We pay less in the Ridge.

  33. Libtard in Union says:

    “Captain Cheapo will be b*tching about that extra year of preschool tuition.” On the bright side, we get the deduction for all of 2012, so my complaining will be tempered. And no, I didn’t plan it that way, although the birth date is expected to be the last week of December. Now if it was the 1999, it might have made more sense to try and win the baby new year lottery.

  34. 30 year realtor says:

    #19 JJ’s B.S. – The listing agent always knows! Who do you think collects all the offers and submits them? Can you say right of first refusal? JJ, someone lied to you.

  35. Libtard in Union says:

    Yes…there is a bit of inside trading going on in these bidding wars, but it’s not like the realtor is making that much more money in commission, unlike the average congressperson.

  36. JJ's B.S says:

    Go on the Fannie Mae web site and read the rules. You have a listing agent. However, “buyers brokers” are not allowed to submit orders to the listing agent. Buyers brokers go directly on the Fannie bidding system to enter the order. I should know I lost on a Fannie Mae house. The listing agents high bid was 303k, my buyers broker high bid was 300K and I entered 305K and lost. Another buyers brokers last minute entered bid.

    My broker gave me her all her password info and I can enter bids myself on the fannie mae system good deal for her if I find a house, she gets the commission for no work. Realtors are hard to deal with in fannies ebay like method when it goes to multiple bidding round. Kinda like auction.com. For instance they are doing a NE real estate auction now and the broker is doing old school showings and dealing with bank while auction is going on with buyers brokers submitting bids directly to auction company which listing agent may or may not know. The method that gets high bid wins.

    Traditionally the listing agent knows all bids. I also wonder why the concept of only one listing agent even exists. I would think maybe having two listing agents working independent of each other might work best. Kinda the auction.com vs. live agent approach. Let them fight each other for highest price.

    30 year realtor says:
    October 12, 2012 at 9:24 am

    #19 JJ’s B.S. – The listing agent always knows! Who do you think collects all the offers and submits them? Can you say right of first refusal? JJ, someone lied to you.

  37. Essex says:

    Salient people salient.

  38. grim says:

    Was involved in a REO bid a year or so back that I think got tossed in the trash by the LA. She was pretty uncooperative intially (no return calls or emails), and when I finally managed to get her on the line, she bashed the property pretty strongly. Put an offer in, no response, re-faxed, re-emailed, eventually got a ‘no thanks, they accepted another bid’. Turns out the Buyer was a builder that had done other transactions with the LA before. Offer was higher than the closing price.

    Oh yeah, and the LA represented the rehabbed home when it came back to market.

    Collusion? You tell me.

  39. Ann says:

    “School Taxes barely pay for the cost of school. ”

    Huh. Where do you live? Where I live, local property taxes cover at least 90-95% of the school budget.

    I think the problem is that it’s based on property taxes. Just because you own a house doesn’t mean you have the income to pay these exorbitant school taxes. We’re better off being able to keep seniors in town, because if they leave, a family with three kids buys the house. The senior freeze helps.

  40. JJ's B.S says:

    New york cut off is 12/31 for kids in school. Having a kid in December is win win, tax deduction plus get them out of house one year earlier.
    Libtard in Union says:
    October 12, 2012 at 9:19 am

    “Captain Cheapo will be b*tching about that extra year of preschool tuition.” On the bright side, we get the deduction for all of 2012, so my complaining will be tempered. And no, I didn’t plan it that way, although the birth date is expected to be the last week of December. Now if it was the 1999, it might have made more sense to try and win the baby new year lottery.

  41. Ann says:

    24 Actually, you should move to an Abbott district.

  42. Ann says:

    6 I agree, Biden looked insane last night. Those big fake teeth and that creepy smile and all those eye movements, ay.

  43. grim says:

    but how did you mess up like us and miss the Kindergarten cut off date?

    Mess up? Red-shirt arbitrage baby. Trade an extra year of pre-school for the potential chance at a valedictorian and a free ride in college. Those early 5 year olds won’t stand a chance against a 6 year old grimette.

  44. JJ's B.S says:

    Helping seniors stay in home is nice but stupid. I see seniors all the time in run down 4 bedrooms houses which they can no longer maintain while a couple with kids is jammed in a small apt or house. Why are we subsidizing empty bedrooms. Some towns on LI passed a rule where seniors under a certain income legally could rent out bedrooms. That is win win. Seniors get to stay and people who need housing have a cheap place to rent. Seniors suck Medicare and SS dry so they should not whine about 4k school taxes.

    Ann says:
    October 12, 2012 at 9:42 am

    “School Taxes barely pay for the cost of school. ”

    Huh. Where do you live? Where I live, local property taxes cover at least 90-95% of the school budget.

    I think the problem is that it’s based on property taxes. Just because you own a house doesn’t mean you have the income to pay these exorbitant school taxes. We’re better off being able to keep seniors in town, because if they leave, a family with three kids buys the house. The senior freeze helps.

  45. Ann says:

    43 Yeah, I was gonna say missing (or ignoring) the cutoff is in the In thing now.

  46. Painhrtz - Joe Biden's Teeth says:

    Grim congrats. enjoy the sleep now be thankful teh little bundle of joy is not two : )

  47. Ant #2349834298 says:

    Grim 4,

    Home Depot is clearly marketing to fix-it uppers.
    Just look at the web page banner “The Great American Fix Up”
    http://www.homedepot.com/

    REPEAT AFTER ME:
    Green shoots was due to a septic leak
    There never was a housing ‘recovery’
    The excess inventory is still there as is the shadow inventory
    Baby boomers want to sell and move
    Without a 50% increase in the number of dollars in circulation, there clearly would’ve been no velocity of money through the economy on the other frozen (original) money supply.
    Watch your $ depreciate and wait for the inflation (expected by Home Depot, too, in 1-3 yrs)
    Bankers don’t go to jail
    Lawyers don’t go to jail
    Realtors/agents don’t go to jail
    Appraisers don’t go to jail
    It’s all a farce.

    Sip the Kool Aid, shut up, and be a good ant – go watch NJ Housewives (yep, you’re living it or related to it!) and don’t disrupt the colony or else no sugar for you!

    -Ant

  48. Ann says:

    44 No, keeping seniors rattling around in their empty rundown houses is good for a town. Less kids to educate. I say we need more stuff to keep seniors in their houses, give em van service, free lunch, zoomba classes, anything. Seniors are cheap.

  49. JJ's B.S says:

    Seniors are cheap. Every restaurant, bar and auto dealership in your town would agree. They also suck as some towns part of sales tax goes to schools.
    Ann says:
    October 12, 2012 at 9:57 am

    44 No, keeping seniors rattling around in their empty rundown houses is good for a town. Less kids to educate. I say we need more stuff to keep seniors in their houses, give em van service, free lunch, zoomba classes, anything. Seniors are cheap.

  50. grim says:

    48 – Boy do I hate showing those boat anchors when the captain is at home. You get the sob stories, bitching about taxes, worst are the widows… In one case I had the owner pleading to my clients to buy the property. Of course in the same breath she mentions that her kids are insisting on maintaining the absurd asking price, lest she give the house (err… their inheritance) away. All the while being crippled by the property taxes that her kids are obviously not helping her pay.

  51. JJ's B.S says:

    If a buyers agent gets more commission if house sells for more how is he independent?

    A buyers agent better metric would be a 10% commission on amount below list price.

    So a house listed at 500K buyers agent gets you for 400K he should be paid 10K.

    A buyers agent today gets more commission if he gets his customer the 500K house at 550K than 450K which is crazy.

  52. NJGator says:

    Grim 43 – We’re going the baseball scholarship route with Lil’ Gator…June birthday and we didn’t academically red shirt him, but lo and behold the age cut off for travel baseball is May 1. Lil Gator towers over the kids in his grade who were actually red shirted…and now he gets to play baseball with kids that are a year younger than him. Can we say dominate?

  53. Jill says:

    grim #7: My mother used to complain about seniors who didn’t want to pay property taxes to fund schools until she became a senior and complained about having to pay property taxes to fund schools.

    I have no children, but I have no problem with property taxes for schools because I agree that public education is a public good. I have voted for every school budget in WT since 1996 when we moved in, except the year that they allocated $700K for lights for the football field. High school football is by definition exclusionary and does not benefit the majority of students. When art and music classes are being cut to pay for sports programs because parents think their Little Darling is going to be the next Peyton Manning, that’s where I draw the line.

  54. JJ's B.S says:

    what about those deals where buyer and seller are within 6% of each other and only realtor commission is getting in the way. The widow and the buyer are must likely also complaining about you. It is amazing how often I see deals fall apart within 6% of each other

    grim says:
    October 12, 2012 at 10:03 am

    48 – Boy do I hate showing those boat anchors when the captain is at home. You get the sob stories, bitching about taxes, worst are the widows… In one case I had the owner pleading to my clients to buy the property. Of course in the same breath she mentions that her kids are insisting on maintaining the absurd asking price, lest she give the house (err… their inheritance) away. All the while being crippled by the property taxes that her kids are obviously not helping her pay.

  55. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [7] grim – Which will be a big fat zero after they’re means-tested away.

    Remember, the kids in school today are going to be the ones funding your SSI and Medicare benefits

  56. JJ's B.S says:

    Under your theory A-rod and Jeter should be great players as they are older. Plus I keep doing math on travel teams and cost. If parent got paid for all the time they spent on this stuff they could pay for college anyhow.
    Plus baseball has a great minor league system. If you kid is really good at it he is not going to college. The best HS senior in Baseball on LI two years ago got drafted by Mets. Good HS baseball players oddly dont go to college. Good Football players all go to college. Strange

    NJGator says:
    October 12, 2012 at 10:05 am

    Grim 43 – We’re going the baseball scholarship route with Lil’ Gator…June birthday and we didn’t academically red shirt him, but lo and behold the age cut off for travel baseball is May 1. Lil Gator towers over the kids in his grade who were actually red shirted…and now he gets to play baseball with kids that are a year younger than him. Can we say dominate?

  57. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [10] Everyone has this option right now. Don’t want to fund public education? Move to Alabama. You can pay your property taxes there with the loose change rattling around in your car’s console.

    7 I say everyone pay for the own kids’ schooling. My parents paid for ours, we pay for our kids, I dunno.

  58. Ann says:

    49 In what towns does sales tax go to schools? Not here, maybe Elizabeth or something. Give me seniors over houses full of kids and don’t even get me started on special ed costs. That should be covered by the state.

  59. grim says:

    what about those deals where buyer and seller are within 6% of each other and only realtor commission is getting in the way.

    Remember, 4 parties get paid out of that 5% (It’s not 6%). Listing Brokerage, Listing Agent, Buyers Brokerage, Buyers Agent.

    Assuming equal commission splits, each party only has 1.25% to work with towards bridging any gap, it’s not alot, especially since not every party will be willing to cut their commission.

    Bridging 6% is unlikely, since not only would all parties need to forego their commissions, but also chip in an additional 1%. Bridging 5 is unlikely as well, since I don’t know many people that would work for free, I know that you don’t.

    Chances are, most brokers on the other side of a transaction won’t match a commission cut by the other party, which leads to a prisoner dilemma situation. While I can offer to cut my own commission by half (not my brokerage’s cut, only my own), I’d have no guarantee that my cut would be matched by the other party. So now I’d be in the posistion where I’m the sucker working for free to close a deal where the other 3 parties still get paid.

    Funny though, I don’t see you asking why all of the other associated parties to the transaction aren’t ever asked to cut their commissions. Do you know how much money Mortgage Brokers make? Attorneys? Title Insurers? Appraisers? Inspectors? Surveyors?

  60. Ann says:

    57 Yes, I get to pay for my children to go to school but I also get to fund another child to attend the public schools. Which I guess is kind of a nice feeling.

  61. grim says:

    60 – Just think of yourself like Tom’s Shoes or One Laptop Per Child (OLPC).

  62. Ann says:

    50 I saw a house, the parents were in assisted living. The greedy kids had stripped the place bare, sold off the appliances including the stove, taken the light fixtures everything.

  63. JJ's B.S says:

    Interesting USAA bank gives negative mortgage points for higher interest loans.

    3.000% 3.387% 3.500
    3.125% 3.441% 2.625
    3.250% 3.506% 1.875
    3.375% 3.529% 0.625
    3.500% 3.594% -0.125
    3.625% 3.668% -0.875
    3.750% 3.793% -1.375
    3.875% 3.918% -1.625
    4.000% 4.042% -1.750
    4.125% 4.166% -2.375

  64. Ann says:

    53 Jill I am seriously interested….What is your motivation for voting yes on school budgets when you don’t have kids in the school system? I agree on the sports stuff by the way.

  65. grim says:

    By the way, deals that fall apart over a few bps aren’t purchase transactions, they are pissing matches.

    It’s all ego and the desire for each party to feel like they’ve made the other party conceed, and thus “won” the deal. This is especially true with the larger $ transactions. The dollar amounts are irrelevant to either side, and are typically small in relation to the scale of the overall transaction.

  66. grim says:

    65 – Always when in a situation where you expect this might come up, you pad the contract will all sorts of extraneous bullshit inclusions and provisions so that when it comes down to negotiation you have the ability to negotiate in terms other than price.

    Arm yourself with items that are easily conceeded back to the seller. Don’t overlook things like faster closing dates being a negotiation tool if the house is vacant, etc.

  67. Juice Box says:

    Brrrr already? I am going Pumpkin picking Tomorrow too…

    Forecasters say temperatures could range from the mid 20s in northwestern New Jersey to the upper 20s and lower 30s elsewhere.

    A freeze watch is in effect for Ocean, Cumberland, Atlantic and southeast Burlington counties. Temperatures are expected to be around 30 Saturday morning.

  68. Statler Waldorf says:

    “It has been my experience that sellers obtain a higher sale price in a blind multiple offer situation than in an open bid.”

    Which is not in dispute. However, for the buyer, it’s a terrible process. Is there really another offer? Are they bidding against themselves? Does the realtor prefer another buyer, and hence not submit your offer?

    Today there is no transparency, and there should be basic regulations around the process to protect consumers. Relisting a house to reset “Days on Market” is another problem that needs to be addressed.

  69. grim says:

    A true closed or seal bid is very different from the situation you describe. In a sealed bid auction, all bidders submit what is essentially their best and final, and the bids are opened and selected from by the seller. There is no opportunity to rebid.

    This is a much fairer situation than what exists today from a buyer’s perspective, but puts sellers at a disadvantage since they would need to be in a position to receive multiple bids by the bid date from which to select.

    What exists today is something more akin to a bastardized open/sealed bid process, where the sellers have visibility into the bids and use the existence of a bid to further influence the other bidders. Basically, the bid model is structured in such a way that the sellers profit is maximized due to the fact that the bidders have incomplete information (information asymmetry).

  70. Harry Buyer says:

    Need some advice/Here’s my deal:

    No inventory/no sellers. Won’t pay but a fair price at most. Need quality, but quality is over priced by $100k where I need to be. No one is buying it. It’s all being listed, delisted, relisted…and so on. Can find the prior listings in the Way Back Machine (archives that are least 6 months from today).

    One house I’d consider that’s available:
    NASTY divorce by her. He didn’t cheat, hit, etc. Just worked hard and provided. Two kids, young, too.
    Their own valuation estimate puts it at a max of 435k – without consideration for 34 yr old roof, 34 yr old septic (no public sewer possible, and won’t be), property across from a soon-to-be solar field (there goes another $35-50k!), no screen windows. Also, any septic repair would require pulling up the patio! Then there’s a retaining wall with railroad 8×8′s – it’s pitching! and it’s adjacent to that septic field. Did I mention that the plans for the house (dated 8 months before the CO) have it confused w/ a neighbor’s house, which has a reverse aspect? Did I also mention how the septic system ‘as-built’ is not available and that the plans would have the leech field going through that septic wall? Then there’s the basement – no door between the basement and the bilco doors. And let’s not forget the (refuse to disclose insurance claim) water damage. Hole in room ceiling from TV fall pulling cable – laughed when I saw that. Almost forgot that the owner has no screens for the windows, there’s no FIOS access, owner won’t throw in the riding mower/yard gear, the refrig, the w/d, or the dining room lighting/hallway fixture. And the paver stones were never sealed and otherwise had salts thrown on them. Oh, almost forgot that the house needs a paint job (cedar siding) – controlled strip down so as to not block the french drain, prime & paint. No master bathroom bathtub – large shower only.

    Still need to check electrical.

    At a reasonable price I’ll buy it, put in the elbow grease. But not listed $35k above the price for the same home if it required no repairs.

    DESIRED REMEDIES TO ENABLE THE DEAL
    1. Ditch the bee-yatch from the negotiations – estranged wife’s uncooperative and won’t sell but for @ a premium, despite taxes and mortgage payments piling up.
    2. Ditch the realtor (save the commission from equitable distribution), he’s useless and doesn’t deserve a commission for NOT selling this property over the last 1.5 yrs.
    3. Accept my bid, net of need for includes (yard gear, appliances, lighting), or continue wasting your kids’ entitlement by transferring it to the divorce industry.

    What do you think?

    Harry

    As to the article, Forget bidding wars – hah! How much will it cost for this “Clear Offer” System? And the litigation that’ll follow?

  71. 1993 House Buyer says:

    #56…that is because the NFL and NBA have outsourced their minor league player development to the colleges, and we see how well that works, and increases costs for all. Outsourced is really not the right word has they reap the benefits without paying into a system loke MLB (teams generally own teams and pay player salaries)

  72. grim says:

    What do you think?

    I think that as a buyer, you are not in a position to convince the seller that their property is not worth what they think it is. You are a biased outsider, with a self-serving interest to minimize the price that you are going to pay (as you should be).

    I see buyers fall into this trap all the time, they try to justify their bid to the seller. I’m not saying don’t bid what you think it’s worth, or to pay what the seller’s asking. What I’m saying is that when the offer is declined, you aren’t going to get the seller to rethink their decision by arguing your offer. Even if you are entirely correct in every point, it is irrelevant. Your bullet point list can be 3 dozen items deep, each point completely and logically argued in your favor, it doesn’t matter. Yes, you may change the seller’s opinion, and push them to be more flexible with pricing, however, that will be with the *next bidder that comes along*, and not with you, as you’ve already established yourself as an adversary in the transaction. (I see this ALLLLL the time, property goes under contract a week after we’ve had the come to Jesus discussion, and the seller has conceded in price far beyond what they did as part of the prior transaction.)

    Thus, there are only two logical bid approaches in this situation:

    1) Don’t bid, you’ve already listed more than a dozen reasons why you shouldn’t.

    2) Bid what it’s worth, and leave the offer on the table. No kill dates, no justifications, no arguments. Here is the offer, it will remain open until you communicate otherwise. Let the seller call you when they wish to negotiate.

    The latter will secure you the strongest negotiation position possible given the situation.

  73. JJ's B.S says:

    I was willing to pay 390k for a beach house seller wanted 409K. Realtor fee was 5%. Difference was 19K which is a lot of money to me. This was two months ago. Realtor fee was 20K. I think realtor could have easily closed deal and got me to 397k and seller to 403k and if she offered to deduct 6K from her commission we would have closed. When she did not offer and said I had to go up. I told her honestly I did not hire you the seller hired you. If you want to do deal you and the seller need to come down. I think if she showed some good faith and kicked in some discount I would have gone for it. But she wanted full commission even though she was the listing agent and there was no split. Her explanation she has been trying to sell house for one year and wants full commision for her work. I said you only worked with me two weeks tops. Why should I pay for one year of work when I did not even hire you.
    Guess what listing expired today house unsold realtor got no commission.

    grim says:
    October 12, 2012 at 10:26 am

    By the way, deals that fall apart over a few bps aren’t purchase transactions, they are pissing matches.

    It’s all ego and the desire for each party to feel like they’ve made the other party conceed, and thus “won” the deal. This is especially true with the larger $ transactions. The dollar amounts are irrelevant to either side, and are typically small in relation to the scale of the overall transaction.

  74. Juice Box says:

    re; # 70 – Harry it seems the divorcing couple hasn’t agreed though their lawyers in advance to price cuts if the house isn’t sold after a certain amount of days. Who is living in the house now? If it is the bee-yatch and kids most likely she is sabotaging the deal. Put in a low ball and go look elsewhere, they will come back in a few months perhaps when the school year has ended.

  75. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I think the best thing you could do to improve public schools is eliminate the free/reduced lunch program and also get rid of school buses in the bigger cities. Half the budget is devoted to the process of transporting the cattle back and forth from the feed lot.

  76. Harry Buyer says:

    Grim 72,

    Thanks. I appreciate your POV. Concluded same as you.

    Although, I’m not sure that while you’re there taking on the realtor’s perspective for the seller and advising me of a buyer’s bias, you fail to realize that your projecting the bias of the seller/realtor. Maybe time is important, maybe not and they’ll do a bifurcated divorce – it’s almost 1yr from the filing, so my guess is they’d be more interested in selling prior to year’s end.

    Perhaps you’re right in some aspects on Mr. Prospective Buyer not having all the info. Perhaps Mr. Realtor told Ms. & Mr. Seller that they should budge. Then again, perhaps he’s doing what we all know happens more so than not – playing both ends (buyer & seller) against (his interests) the middle.

    I’ve not yet made the compelling arguments listed, nor the economic arguments for why opportunity cost will make Ms./Mr. Seller rue not selling.

    Also, is it just me or will no one be buying until Q1-Q2 next yr? This goes to why they should discount.

    Lastly, I find it interesting that you DIDN’T contest the down valuation due to the lovely soon to be erected solar field (in lieu of the existing trees and heath). Have heard some try to push that to the middle, too. Facts are to the contrary.

    Thanks.

    -Harry

  77. Harry Buyer says:

    Juice box 74,

    She moved to neighboring town – got mom & dad to finance her $350 townhome. He’s living there w/ a 45 minute commute and from what I’ve read, dearly misses his daughters and will concede a divorce from her, but not the kids.

    Concur w/ your advice. Prepping the bid for Wed 07 Nov (day after election day) conditioned on inspections and close PRIOR to EOY. It’ll get worse (housing, not Ms. Seller, who is already there) next year, IMO.

    Thanks.

    Harry

  78. joyce says:

    Harry
    The house you describe sound likes a sh*t hole… why on earth on you buying it?

  79. JJ's B.S says:

    Realtors have an opinion what a home is worth
    Seller have an opinion on what a home is worth
    Buyers have an opinion what a home is worth
    Banks have an opinion on what a home is worth

    Note it is all opinions: None is based on what home is actually worth.

    Now realtors love to say something like a home is worth what a buyer will pay. Really, 2003-2007 shows buyers are often stupid and over pay for homes. Too much emotion, desperation, lack of transparency in pricing and flaws hidden that buyers often end up over paying. It does not mean it was every worth that much. They say in selling a house all you need is one sucker, that sucker buys it. But remember, that sucker is going to have a hard time finding a second sucker.

  80. chicagofinance says:

    I apologize for calling you out personally, but I find the disclosure of your husband’s salary completely obnoxious. My perspective is from someone who works with people all the time with their personal financial information. Even sitting in a private conference room people don’t discuss what they earn. They would rather have me read their W-2′s or 1040′s…….again sorry, but it really stands out in my view….

    Ann says:
    October 11, 2012 at 12:44 pm
    He started out making 50K a year, ten years later, he makes 400K.

  81. JJ's B.S says:

    I could close on that house in a few weeks. First sweet talk her, then screw her a few times then tell her you will leave wife and pay all her bills if only there was a way you could buy house cheap so she could keep living there. Then buy house cheap, then dump her. Play hard ball baby or at least have her play with your balls.

    Harry Buyer says:
    October 12, 2012 at 11:39 am

    Juice box 74,

    She moved to neighboring town – got mom & dad to finance her $350 townhome. He’s living there w/ a 45 minute commute and from what I’ve read, dearly misses his daughters and will concede a divorce from her, but not the kids.

  82. JJ's B.S says:

    I also find it appalling that your husband only makes 400K. Were you looking for donations from me and Chifi. I think Chifi can make that much trading on the crapper each morning on his Ipad.

    chicagofinance says:
    October 12, 2012 at 11:43 am

    I apologize for calling you out personally, but I find the disclosure of your husband’s salary completely obnoxious. My perspective is from someone who works with people all the time with their personal financial information. Even sitting in a private conference room people don’t discuss what they earn. They would rather have me read their W-2′s or 1040′s…….again sorry, but it really stands out in my view….

  83. Ann says:

    80 wow relax. It seemed like everyone talks about how rich they are on here. Plus, you don’t know me, so what do you care?

  84. chicagofinance says:

    Gore in 2000 killed his candidacy with less…
    Ann says:
    October 12, 2012 at 9:45 am
    6 I agree, Biden looked insane last night. Those big fake teeth and that creepy smile and all those eye movements, ay.

  85. chicagofinance says:

    The only one who doesn’t boast is grim…..
    Ann says:
    October 12, 2012 at 11:47 am
    80 wow relax. It seemed like everyone talks about how rich they are on here. Plus, you don’t know me, so what do you care?

  86. Juice Box says:

    ExPat – Let the children starve? They surely would without the free meals. The door to door school bus is there to make them show up otherwise they won’t. One in three births in NJ is to an unwed mother. The rate in NY is higher. Without getting into specifics we cannot have all of these bastards running around without some education. Lord of the Flies already plays itself out everyday in bigger cities and without some form of free meals and busing to entice them to sit in front of a teacher for a few hours a day means the alternative is the cost of Law Enforcement and Incarceration which are much higher than the schools.

  87. Libtard in Union says:

    Maybe Grim’s got little to boast about? :P

  88. Ann says:

    Hey you know what chi fi, I was too nice, FU. It’s the internet. What the heck do you care? I have to hear about JJ buying houses with cash all the time, and good for him God bless, but you don’t see me getting my panties all in bunch like you are. And if your clients are scared to say how much they make to you out loud and you are their financial planner, then something is wrong. I wouldn’t want a financial planner where I couldn’t say what I make out loud. I used to work in a law office and I saw the WS tax returns all the time and believe me those guys didn’t give a sheet who knew how much they made and why should they. That’s what is so messed up in this country….people have to be ashamed of their success.

  89. Juice Box says:

    Chi – she was just getting interesting don’t chase her away.

  90. chicagofinance says:

    You haven’t made the grade on the board until you pick a fight with someone…….welcome!

    Ann says:
    October 12, 2012 at 11:55 am
    Hey you know what chi fi, I was too nice, FU. It’s the internet. What the heck do you care? I have to hear about JJ buying houses with cash all the time, and good for him God bless, but you don’t see me getting my panties all in bunch like you are. And if your clients are scared to say how much they make to you out loud and you are their financial planner, then something is wrong. I wouldn’t want a financial planner where I couldn’t say what I make out loud. I used to work in a law office and I saw the WS tax returns all the time and believe me those guys didn’t give a sheet who knew how much they made and why should they. That’s what is so messed up in this country….people have to be ashamed of their success.

  91. Ernest Money says:

    …still waiting for yome to find my store…

  92. Ernest Money says:

    There’s a guy in a trenchcoat who’s been pushing a shopping cart full of garbage up and down the block. Could it be yome?

  93. yome says:

    If you post the right address I can buy some of what you sell. I put it on mapquest,it does not exist.You are loosing customers

  94. Juice Box says:

    Chi – Grim dose boast. That kitchen of his screams his desire for attention, it is the centerpiece of his psyche these days as he shows it off to strangers on the internet. I bet the kid was conceived there too :)

  95. Ann says:

    90 Thank you. Listen to this….I had a mom friend at school….husband got a sports contract for 50 million dollars. It’s all over the papers, the internet, everywhere. Within a few months they are under contract for a gorgeous five million dollar house and she’s giving away her furniture. What am I going to do? Get all bitchy and whiny? You know what I say to them…God bless

  96. Thank your for this post.

    Clear Offer was developed to create fairness to buyers while maximizing the sellers proceeds.
    This system was created to replace the current trend of “JUST FAX ME THE OFFER” and I’ll let you know. Which is a complete disservice to all involved including the seller. Our solution promotes the agent role while holding both sides accountable eliminating any doubt.
    Buyer’s are very frustrated, even questioning their agent if the offer was ever really submitted and in many cases the selling agent receives no communication from L/A.
    Clear Offer is not an auction type platform but a system that enable sellers to see all market activity on their home and not the offer the agent selects to present. The Clear Offer system enables sellers to display underlying offers or to keep them private.

    Think of Clear Offer as a new listing tool that should be used on all listings replacing “FAX ME THE OFFER” and promoting transparency.

    In fact with your seller seeing all market activity they will be comming to you with price adjustments.

    Visit http://www.clearoffer.com to learn more

  97. Ernest Money says:

    Can’t believe nobody’s weighed in on this yet:

    “We noted earlier the somewhat surrealistic decision to award the Nobel Peace Prize to the European Union (though entirely consistent it would seem given their previous ‘Obama’ decision) but now UKIP’s Nigel Farage has weighed in with his ‘boots on the ground’ perspective of this farce. “You only have to open your eyes to see the increasing violence and division within the EU which is caused by the Euro project” he said, adding that “the awarding of this prize to the EU brings it into disrepute.” We suspect that reputation is already ‘diss’ed but analogizing the tragic imposition of a new flag on Yugoslavia, Farage concludes: “Rather than bring peace and harmony, the EU will cause insurgency and violence.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-12/farage-slams-nobel-peace-prize-farce-insurgency-and-violence-reign

  98. yome says:

    Is what you post on the net considered evidence? Threat? Always been nice.Will not get my pants down

  99. Ernest Money says:

    yome (93)-

    No, we are gaining customers. You, on the other hand, appear to be losing your mind. Thanks for the offer to buy things here, but we’re fresh out of crazy.

    BTW, it is “losing”, not “loosing”.

    “If you post the right address I can buy some of what you sell. I put it on mapquest,it does not exist.You are loosing customers”

  100. JJ's B.S says:

    Obviously financial planners have no clue what they are doing. Otherwise they would just invest their own money ten minutes a day and be rich.

    Ann maybe Grim can set up a paypal donation link for the underwater house.

    Just having fun pretending to pick fights. I love you guys

    Ann says:
    October 12, 2012 at 11:55 am

    Hey you know what chi fi, I was too nice, FU. It’s the internet. What the heck do you care? I have to hear about JJ buying houses with cash all the time, and good for him God bless, but you don’t see me getting my panties all in bunch like you are. And if your clients are scared to say how much they make to you out loud and you are their financial planner, then something is wrong. I wouldn’t want a financial planner where I couldn’t say what I make out loud. I used to work in a law office and I saw the WS tax returns all the time and believe me those guys didn’t give a sheet who knew how much they made and why should they. That’s what is so messed up in this country….people have to be ashamed of their success.

  101. Ernest Money says:

    yome (98)-

    I can hear a giant, collective sigh of relief.

    “Will not get my pants down”

  102. yome says:

    I always said english is my second language.The hardest language to learn.Thanks for the correction

    “BTW, it is “losing”, not “loosing”.”

  103. yome says:

    Why dont you just post the right address.English being my second language is hard to respond

  104. Marilyn says:

    I was the female Charlie Sheen at one time!!! Ton of crack, men all over me, and loaded. Dont pick on ANN!!!! I like reading her opinion on here! And I have more money than all of you!!!!!

  105. Brian says:

    Nobody cares. As soon as they gave it to Barak Obama it became a joke.

    97.Ernest Money says:
    October 12, 2012 at 12:12 pm
    Can’t believe nobody’s weighed in on this yet:

    “We noted earlier the somewhat surrealistic decision to award the Nobel Peace Prize to the European Union (though entirely consistent it would seem given their previous ‘Obama’ decision) but now UKIP’s Nigel Farage has weighed in with his ‘boots on the ground’ perspective of this farce. “You only have to open your eyes to see the increasing violence and division within the EU which is caused by the Euro project” he said, adding that “the awarding of this prize to the EU brings it into disrepute.” We suspect that reputation is already ‘diss’ed but analogizing the tragic imposition of a new flag on Yugoslavia, Farage concludes: “Rather than bring peace and harmony, the EU will cause insurgency and violence.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-12/farage-slams-nobel-peace-prize-farce-insurgency-and-violence-reign

  106. joyce says:

    (83)
    Ann,
    Nobody on here brags about how much money they make. Of course JJ does, because he has to overcompensate for how much or a loser he is.

    That being said, everyone on here brags about how much money they’ve saved and how cheap we all are… big difference.

  107. joyce says:

    Oh, and then there is also the ongoing competition as to who drives the oldest POS car.

  108. Marilyn says:

    here is bragging, I had it all, fast cars, fast men, ready rock out my butt, I was Tony Montana the female version. Funny how did I turn into Phyllis Dillar??? Ohh well move on.

  109. Ann says:

    100 Speaking of my underwater house, I just called my bank, asked where my HARP was. They said we don’t qualify because we refinanced too recently (2 yrs ago? huh?). I said, but Obama keeps saying that help is coming, I want my HARP. He said no HARP. So then I said what about a regular refi, he said no, not enough equity. So then he said, maybe you could get a loan modification though if you have experienced hardship. I said well, maybe, my husband makes 400k a year and then he told me I was being obnoxious and hung up on me.

  110. Ann says:

    106 My car is new and shiny and German because my husband is very, very rich.

  111. Libtard in Union says:

    I win the POS car contest!

  112. Ann says:

    Marilyn, you sound familiar for some reason! Are you the one whose father was all rich and you never had to work and you brag about it?

  113. Brian says:

    Just turned 170k miles this week. Wohooo!

    111.Libtard in Union says:
    October 12, 2012 at 12:40 pm
    I win the POS car contest!

  114. Libtard in Union says:

    I am not rich. Otherwise, I wouldn’t drive such a POS car!

  115. Libtard in Union says:

    I’m at 150K. She’s still a toddler.

  116. Brian says:

    200k miles is the new 100k miles.

  117. JJ's B.S says:

    $737,000 dollars is what Walter White says is real money

  118. matt taibbi says:

    I’ve never been a Joe Biden fan. After four years, I’m not the biggest Barack Obama fan, either (and I’ll get into why on that score later). But they’re at least credible as big-league politicians. So much of the Romney/Ryan plan is so absurdly junior league, it’s so far off-Broadway, it’s practically in New Jersey.

    Paul Ryan, a leader in the most aggressively and mindlessly partisan Congress in history, preaching bipartisanship? A private-equity parasite, Mitt Romney, who wants to enact a massive tax cut and pay for it without touching his own personal fortune-guaranteeing deduction, the carried-interest tax break – which keeps his own taxes below 15 percent despite incomes above $20 million?

    Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/the-vice-presidential-debate-joe-biden-was-right-to-laugh-20121012#ixzz296TbpfCF

  119. Harry Buyer says:

    Joyce 78,

    Worthy Q. However, my post was seeking advice, not Q’s.
    You gave some advice – ‘it sounds like a s*** hole’ (<–Auditory is primary sensory observing/learning system?).

    To your Q: I'm interested in it as other aspects of condition are good and for location – it's 1 block from the town fields and middle school, it's also far enough away from undesirable side of town, and near enough to the access ways and grocery store. Yes, it's a bus ride to high school, but that's next yr for eldest and 3 yrs from now for younger.

    FWIW, I'm willing to bite the bullet and go to the most inconvenient side of town.

    -Harry

  120. JJ's B.S says:

    “QE 3.5″ to be likely, possibly as soon as December. The fresh round of Federal Reserve easing measures could come “in the form of ongoing purchases of Treasuries after Operation Twist expires,” according to the note by Tom Kendall, Anita Soni and four co-authors.

  121. Ann says:

    You know how they say cars don’t matter as long as it gets you from place to place and who cares and all that….they’re wrong. That’s just poor people trying to make themselves feel better. There is a difference a huge difference. I drove Hondas for twenty years, which was fine, they are good solid reliable cars. Then I was getting ready to turn 40, I’m like wait a second my husband is RICH, what am I doing in this Accord?

    I would give up my underwater house before my nice car.

  122. yome says:

    2002 merc c240 176,000 miles. My last Toyota celica was 16 years old with 180,000miles when I gave it to a college kid

  123. yome says:

    Ann, me too. I always both new cars but kept my old ones until they die or give it to my kids. I have five right now.2000 volvo 2002 merc c240 2004 ml350 2011 bmw 328i and a honda 2006 civic with 4 drivers in the house

  124. Brian says:

    I like cars. If I had the space to store it and the money, I’d probably buy a classic or something. But my truck is a commuter. I need a crappy POS that I can drive everyday on a punishing commute. It would be a shame to drive a nice car to work everyday. I need a rusty sh1tbox I can drive like I stole that I can point at an exit ramp at full speed and know that everyone with nice german luxury car will move the fuk out of the way.

    121.Ann says:
    October 12, 2012 at 12:51 pm
    You know how they say cars don’t matter as long as it gets you from place to place and who cares and all that….they’re wrong. That’s just poor people trying to make themselves feel better. There is a difference a huge difference. I drove Hondas for twenty years, which was fine, they are good solid reliable cars. Then I was getting ready to turn 40, I’m like wait a second my husband is RICH, what am I doing in this Accord?

    I would give up my underwater house before my nice car.

  125. Marilyn says:

    yup Ann I am the one , you joined the bragging club!!!! Proud to brag!

  126. JJ's B.S says:

    Never drive Jap cars you are too good for that. I dont really think 400K is rich. Pretty much middle class nowdays. Not joking I did read that people in the 400K range like your husband often feel the poorest of any worker.

    Think about it when I was in my first job as a Head teller out of school. I made 15K a year but tellers made 9k I felt richer. Then as a supervisor making 50k with staff fresh out of school making 20K I felt rich. Then as an Senior Manager making 150K managing people earning 60-100K I felt rich. Then as you break 200/300K you interact much less with staff and much more with sr. mgt. You now realize you go to meetings with the senior mgt team a lot. They have planes, Hampton houses, estates, condos in the city, you have a used BMW and think staying on property at Disney is big stuff. All at once you feel poor. It is weird cause 400K should be rich to your neighbors but at work it feels like nothing. Even more so when you are sitting at table with people who make 5x or 10x that as a xmas bonus alone.

    Ann says:
    October 12, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    You know how they say cars don’t matter as long as it gets you from place to place and who cares and all that….they’re wrong. That’s just poor people trying to make themselves feel better. There is a difference a huge difference. I drove Hondas for twenty years, which was fine, they are good solid reliable cars. Then I was getting ready to turn 40, I’m like wait a second my husband is RICH, what am I doing in this Accord?

    I would give up my underwater house before my nice car.

  127. Marilyn says:

    im pulling your leg. But Ann I do like reading what you write!

  128. Libtard in Union says:

    Unlike JJ, I never felt Rich. He simply never asked me to.

  129. grim says:

    I’m planning on keeping my BMW until I reach 238,900 miles, just so I can say I drove it all the way to the moon.

  130. Ann says:

    JJ: Of course it’s not rich. After taxes it’s really not rich. I’m just kidding and trying to be obnoxious for chi fi.

  131. grim says:

    From Reuters:

    Consumer sentiment jumps ahead of elections

    U.S. consumer sentiment unexpectedly rose to its highest in five years in October in the latest in a string of encouraging signs from the economy that may boost President Obama’s reelection hopes as voters go to the polls next month.

    The Thomson Reuters/University of Michigan’s preliminary October reading on the overall index on consumer sentiment came in at 83.1, up from 78.3 the month before, and the highest since September 2007, the survey showed on Friday.

    The new buoyancy among consumers comes shortly after the U.S. unemployment rate tumbled to its lowest in nearly four years in September as more people returned to the workforce and found jobs than economists had predicted.

    “We are getting some quite interesting signals from consumer sentiment and employment data – both (the) unemployment rate and initial claims – that there has been some quite significant improvement in the economy,” said David Sloan, an economist at 4Cast in New York.

  132. JJ's B.S says:

    chifi was getting a little uppidity.

    Ann says:
    October 12, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    JJ: Of course it’s not rich. After taxes it’s really not rich. I’m just kidding and trying to be obnoxious for chi fi.

  133. grim says:

    New CoreLogic MarketPulse out – Good stuff!

    The Durability of the Housing Recovery

  134. Mike says:

    104 Better start spending some of that money twinkle toes

  135. Libtard in Union says:

    Grim = wonk

  136. NJGator says:

    Getting back to public schools, I attended an HSA meeting earlier this week where our school BOE rep assured us all that the Superintendent has been studying our “precipitous decline” in the NJ Monthly rankings (from 4 to 12) and will present his findings at the November board meeting.

    Phew! Now I can sleep again at night.

  137. Essex says:

    I find that even the “rich” are poor here in NJ. Just sayin.

    Joyce jj is not a loser. Go cuddle with your copy of Atlas shrugged.

  138. JJ's B.S says:

    I am a looser

    Essex says:
    October 12, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    I find that even the “rich” are poor here in NJ. Just sayin.

    Joyce jj is not a loser. Go cuddle with your copy of Atlas shrugged.

  139. Ragnar says:

    Grim, 16
    Consider the Newark and Camden school systems and tell me again who is “free riding” on whom? State education isn’t highly correlated to educated people.
    For $1,000 per year we could sign these kids up with Educomp in India, lock them in a room with a projector screen and a security guard, and their test results would improve over the State/Union bureacracy’s $22,000/yr per student massive failure.

    People spend their own money better than they do other people’s money. Businesses that have to earn a customers’ money make a better product, and cheaper. These are much more direct and powerful economic principles than peripheral stuff like “free riders” which statist economists seem to only apply in the direction of justifying more government intervention, and never the other direction. What economist has analyzed the deadweight loss of the government’s near monopoly on education? Or the asymmetric bargaining power of government bureaucracy and unions to plunder the industry?

    Government run school isn’t just modestly inefficient, like 10% suboptimal. It’s both disastrously inefficient and also a poor product. If the product was produced cheaply and well, and if it wasn’t already “free”, there would be massive charities devoted to funding the eductation of the poor. The vast majority of the non-poor would spend their own money on their kids educations, and the whole industry would be improved by the interaction of producer and consumer.

  140. joyce says:

    never read it

  141. Nicholas says:

    Again, I’m lurking for a long time until I find something important to say. First, I find that bragging about cars and salaries is very distasteful and my opinion of those that do drop significantly. I don’t have anything against someone who has money, makes a lot of money, and generally rolls around in money. I have problems with people who don’t know the line between abnoxious and tasteful. Ann, your internet behavior is bordering on obnoxious. Does that matter? Yes. Does it matter to you? Obviously not.

    Second, On the issue of sealed vs open bidding there were some interesting research papers out of the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) and they did some great work examining forrestry sales but it holds a high parallel to real estate sales. Their findings were pretty much in line with the empherical evidence that you guys are bringing up.

    You can see the paper here but it contains a lot of mathematics and economics. I go into what I gleaned from the paper this morning.

    http://www.nber.org/papers/w14590

    1. There are 10% more bids in closed auctions/sales because the participation rate of smaller buyers was higher. Institutional investors participated 100% of the time, smaller buyers participated at much higher rates when the bidding was closed.

    2. Due to the higher participation rate there are higher sales prices associated with closed bidding. Not necessarily collusion between distributor and buyers but rather because of increased competition. This is supported by the data that they collected on both open and closed auctions.

    If you were a seller and you wanted the highest competion and thus the highest sales price you would select a closed bid system. There just isn’t any other way around it.

    What the research paper also suggests and supports is that in an open bid system that the institutional investors bid higher to drive out small investors but they also colluded with other institutional investors which suppressed prices. You can see this in the show “storage wars” in which they exclusively use open bidding. Those investors who can not only buy the locker but own a store to sell the items in are controlling the show no other bidders typically enter into the sales. This isn’t an artifact of judicial editing of the show it is because the institutional investors know the true value of the sale.

    Long story short, closed bidding does cause higher prices, about 10%, but because of that you cut out institutional investors which would collude and monopolize the market.

    Grim, in the case of multiple bidding rounds you don’t look at it like a “bastardization” you look at it like multiple auctions starting from a new reserve price. Round 1 is auction with seller defined reserve price (which may be unknown to bidders), participants bid and then the auction is closed. Round 2 opens a new auction with highest participant from the previous bid setting the reserve price (which may or may not be known to the bidders). Auctions continue until best price has been discovered for the home.

    In a closed bid process the best thing to give a number and don’t move. Understand that this may cause you to lose the bid to someone who will go higher. There are other intangibles that go into what is called a “five o’clock look” which comes from the 1980 and the movie/theatre industry which had blind, closed bids on movies where the highest offer wasn’t chosen but rather a theater with more seats in a desirable location. That means that things like ablility to close quickly, not needing lender financing, etc are important to the seller and they may not take the highest offer.

    Anyway, hopefully this helps a bit.

  142. Libtard in Union says:

    Can we get back to bragging about our high salaries, or lack thereof.

  143. JJ's B.S says:

    Nicholas thanks for that great short summary on the closed bid process. I was too busy counting my money, driving fast cars and getting laid to read it myself.

    Nicholas says:
    October 12, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    Again, I’m lurking for a long time until I find something important to say. First, I find that bragging about cars and salaries is very distasteful and my opinion of those that do drop significantly. I don’t have anything against someone who has money, makes a lot of money, and generally rolls around in money. I have problems with people who don’t know the line between abnoxious and tasteful. Ann, your internet behavior is bordering on obnoxious. Does that matter? Yes. Does it matter to you? Obviously not.

  144. Brian says:

    I nominate Malala Yousafzai for the Nobel Peace prize. It was wasted on the EU.

  145. Nicholas says:

    Blind Bidding for Motion Pictures
    http://marshallinside.usc.edu/mweinstein/teaching/fbe552/552secure/notes/blumenthal.pdf

    Add this to your reading list if you want to know more in depth information about blind/open bidding. This is more about bidding on something in which you don’t get to see it before hand vs being able to preview the item before hand.

    I read this paper before I sold my automobile to a car dealership without even bringing the car in for them to look at. It is clear that the dealership had a good command of these practices. They offered me 1000$ “sight unseen”. I asked “So you are going to give me 3500$ when you do look at it?”. 3500 was private sale price on car. We laughed together loudly for a bit and then I said that I had another buyer for the car lined up that was already over that price and if they wanted it they would have to beat that buyer (Carmax had offered me 1500$ for the vehicle after looking at it). They asked how much and I said “now you know that is not how it works, give me your best price and I will let you know if you beat it”. I ended up with 2500$ for the vehicle.

    This is a typical case in point of a blind auction occuring. I found this paper very interesting. Again, heavy on mathmatics and economics.

    Real estate always works in mostly open fashion where you get to view the house and make an assessment of its value so this paper isn’t as interesting in that respect.

  146. Ragnar says:

    I changed my mind, maybe education is hopeless forever. I just read a NY Times article about how a doctor prescribes ADHD drugs because he’s trying to boost the scores of poor kids, even though he thinks ADHD is a hoax. And some non-poor parents getting these drugs for their kids to liven up their personalities and boost their scores. And the story of a kid who was hallucinating in school so had to switch drugs. And then I remembered that Honey BooBoo’s show is on TLC aka “The Learning Channel”. I think only 20% of Americans have a clue about what’s the purpose of education and I’m really losing my motivation in regards to caring about the rest.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/09/health/attention-disorder-or-not-children-prescribed-pills-to-help-in-school.html?pagewanted=1&_r=3&smid=tw-nytimes&partner=rss&emc=rss

  147. grim says:

    146 – College crammers figured this one out long ago. I hear there is a pretty strong black market for Adderall on pretty much every competitive college campus.

  148. Nicholas says:

    JJ,

    For some reason your bragging doesn’t bother me because I have a strong suspicion that it is fabricated and not based in reality.

    I myself printed out that research paper on recycled 100$ bills that were used as napkins and thrown on the floor in my office. Yes we have a recycle bin for used 100$ bills in which we pay a maid to pick up after we use them.

    http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvdsm4HFUY1qerv8ko1_500.jpg

    Now I’m going to get into my oversized vehicle and drive home at top speed wasting fuel all because I don’t really care that the planet is crying or that you cant breath anymore from the exhaust. I get my rarified air bottled from the swiss alps in non-pressurized containers as that just contaminates the product.

    When I get home I’m going to sip on my honeysuckle nectar that I had someone collect by hand, drop-by drop, and eat my foie-gras rolled in caviar, wrapped in a Black Périgord Truffle and dipped in chocolate.

  149. Ann says:

    And I hope you make more money soon so you aren’t so butthurt by some anonymous ramblings on a message board. Here’s some neosporin.

    Again, I’m lurking for a long time until I find something important to say. First, I find that bragging about cars and salaries is very distasteful and my opinion of those that do drop significantly. I don’t have anything against someone who has money, makes a lot of money, and generally rolls around in money. I have problems with people who don’t know the line between abnoxious and tasteful. Ann, your internet behavior is bordering on obnoxious. Does that matter? Yes. Does it matter to you? Obviously not.

  150. Ann says:

    Oh sorry 149 was for Nicholas.

  151. Ann says:

    “The planet is crying…” Wait..what?

  152. Ann says:

    I am lying too. Feel better?

    For some reason your bragging doesn’t bother me because I have a strong suspicion that it is fabricated and not based in reality.

  153. Painhrtz - Vote Obamney! says:

    Pussies 260k though libs civic is older years wise

  154. Marilyn says:

    #104, too worried with Obama! But maybe when I think about the big O your right!! I better , then I can get my OBAMA PHONE!! Blow it all and have the governement take care of me! Better than paying all the damn tax!!! I am not enjoying it, I had more fun when I was a loser like JJ!! But on crack! This sucks!!

  155. Marilyn says:

    everyone in Cleveland got Obama phone , why not NJ???

  156. grim says:

    That’s already circled and moon and is on it’s way back, nicely done.

  157. Essex says:

    154. Nice meltdown. I see your IQ is showing. Jersey style.

  158. Ragnar says:

    We’re not supposed to brag about our incomes, we’re supposed to brag about how much taxes we paid. Oblamer said it’s my patriotic duty to pay more, so why shouldn’t I be proud of my patriotism, and get a medal or something.
    But some people have a patriotic duty to pay less, even people who already get more from the government than they make themselves, they should have a lower negative tax rate. But we mustn’t talk about it or they would be embarrassed. They’re just doing their patriotic duty of spending my money and that is even more special and deserving of praise, they are the unsung heros of our age, scootin around WalMart in their Little Rascals, stocking up on doritos and oreos, and collecting disability on account of their obesity and back issues. They do the consuming that drives our economy forward… allegedly.

  159. Nicholas says:

    Ann,

    Your one-liners are awesome. Let me have a try.

    Rich, obnoxious and condescending how original. Now if you were only racist you would complete the picture.

  160. Ragnar says:

    I remember Sastry got upset when I complained about my taxes, he said I was showing off. I forget what handle he uses now, had the same politics as cobbler and yome, but wasn’t retarded like they are. Yet Warren Buffet complains about his secretary’s taxes all the time and nobody minds because together they look like Ma and Pa Kettle, and even though nobody can figure a way that his secretary can pay taxes of 35.6% without making over $500k/yr.

  161. Simon says:

    Money talks, wealth whispers

  162. JJ's B.S says:

    Marilyn sounds like you need a really BIG O. Maybe tonight, you do have a lot of good pharma in Jersey, oh yea also get a puffer for your hubby

    Marilyn says:
    October 12, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    #104, too worried with Obama! But maybe when I think about the big O your right!! I better , then I can get my OBAMA PHONE!! Blow it all and have the governement take care of me! Better than paying all the damn tax!!! I am not enjoying it, I had more fun when I was a loser like JJ!! But on crack! This sucks!!

  163. Ann says:

    159 Nicholas Actually my rich husband is black, so clearly NOT a racist, quite the opposite. How racist of you to assume that a black man cant be rich.

  164. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [72];

    I think that as a buyer, you are not in a position to convince the seller that their property is not worth what they think it is. You are a biased outsider, with a self-serving interest to minimize the price that you are going to pay (as you should be).

    Yes. The problem with the system now, from a buyer’s perspective, is that there is no reward for being right. Suppose that the buyer absolutely nails the fair market value, and bids it… no games. Here’s how it plays out:

    The seller overprices his property;
    Buyer makes best, last, final, only bid first at market value;
    Seller (and LA) plays ‘offended’, won’t return calls, and/or screams and rants;
    Property sits;
    Price lowered;
    Seller accepts less than ask (maybe less than the offer) later — from some other buyer.

    The first buyer has wasted time and effort on an irrational seller. The seller probably gets less than what was offered. Everybody loses.

    In a rational economic system, being right (about what the market wants to buy, how many and at what price) yields rewards. Being wrong yields losses. Here, the buyer being right gets the shaft. I want my cupie doll!

    This is why in my ideal world, the value a buyer’s agent can add is not access to MLS listing data, but active and informed filtering of the real buying opportunities from the sea of lottery ticket listings.

  165. JJ's B.S says:

    Jay Z, Sean Combs I dont think I know any poor black Man, heck one is President of the USA other CEO of American Express. Heck Monday night I saw a whole stadium full of rich black men.

    Ann says:
    October 12, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    159 Nicholas Actually my rich husband is black, so clearly NOT a racist, quite the opposite. How racist of you to assume that a black man cant be rich.

  166. Marilyn says:

    whats wrong Essex? Hurt your feelings? Ohh forgot you love Obama!!

  167. joyce says:

    Barclays Capital put out a report recently forecasting that home prices, which fell by more than a third after the housing bubble burst in 2007, could be back to peak levels as soon as 2015.

    “In our view, the housing market had undergone a dramatic over-correction during the prior five years, resulting in pent-up demand for housing purchases that would spark a rapid rise in housing starts,” said Stephen Kim, an analyst with Barclays, in a note to clients.

    http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/12/news/economy/housing-boom/index.html?iid=HP_LN

    I’ll take the other side of that bet.

  168. Marilyn says:

    Essex I was insulting Obama not you. Touchy subject , I guess when you may lose it hurts. Well Good Luck hope you get everything you want!

  169. JJ's B.S says:

    Generally people become realtors as a last resort. Now of this gene pool the alpha dogs are ones who get good listings to sell. The runts of litter can get listings and become buyers brokers. When I was house hunting a honest buyers broker told me the folks who are good at getting cheap good priced listings, divorces, short sales, REOs, estate sales, underpriced homes have followers who are investors. They offer them up to them prior to MLS. In other words they on purpose dont put it on MLS for a few days. Then they throw it up on MLS when they already have a buyer or two as it has to be legit but it is gone quick. The ones that remain get thrown back for buyers brokers. You need a strong relationship with the brokers that get good listings. Send them xmas cards, gift baskets I dont care and have cash. Realtor near me who gets the good listings got a BAC REO on Friday said it is hitting MLS on Monday said lets get a bid in by Monday morning so when I list it on MLS already sold. Lets dance. That realtor buyers brokers wont work with they say they cut them out. But she moves homes. She also forces sellers down in price not buyers up on price. Other than getting a realtors license, buying paper or standing on court house steps you need a good listing agent who sells quick and favors buyers over sellers

    Anon E. Moose says:
    October 12, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    Grim [72];

    I think that as a buyer, you are not in a position to convince the seller that their property is not worth what they think it is. You are a biased outsider, with a self-serving interest to minimize the price that you are going to pay (as you should be).

  170. grim says:

    171 – Nice, using the exclusivity close along with the urgency close, I see she made it to Chapter 8 of Ziglar.

    I’ve got a special deal, it’s secret, and just for you, but you’ve got to act quick, because once Monday comes along, this one will be gone! Quick, honey, get the checkbook!

    Christ, she’s even got you polishing her knob and sending her crap.. You are right, she is the alpha.

  171. Comrade Nom Deplume in PA says:

    I was out all day. Whadimiss?

  172. JJ's B.S says:

    Actually two in my town. She is great. Bought my house from her. She had seller do a flat fee use her lawyer. My house was listed 320K I bid 305k on my house she told me guy already said he would take 280K so why over pay. Then at closing seller had to leave the room and he signed power of attorney over to his lawyer and while he was gone for 20 minutes I got another $3,700 off price at the close.

    She likes to do exclusives only, she wont do other peoples listing and she told me the buyer is my future customer the seller is done. She charged 10K flat fee for taking the 335K listing sold it to me day it went on the market. Her flat fee is the best. She just bangs them out. She said buyers love cheap realtor fees. I locked them in exclusive only and only take sellers looking to sell quick at a good price.

    I would never ever use her to sell a house. But to buy a house, she is good. She did an estate sale near me priced it 75k under market and sold it in one minute a few months ago. Grim you should take lessons from her. Even in RE crisis I saw her listings come and go in a few weeks.

    I actually called her about buying an investment property and told me look, unless you are sitting around with a check book in one hand and phone in the other I wont put you on my list. I dont show homes I sell homes. Dont waste my time.

    Like my friend the car wholesalers. Bring 20K cash, 90 seconds a car and dont waste my time. We looked at 3-5 cars and I was out of there. Working with her is not for the faint of heart.

    BTW the bungalow I bid 390K on owner wanted 409k listing expired today, realtor called me up today and said look you can have it 390K I will talk to owner even though listing expired.

    Should I call owner up directly on Monday. I mean if listing expired I signed no buyers agreement. Plus kind of weird putting a bid on a house with the old realtor

    grim says:
    October 12, 2012 at 4:35 pm

    171 – Nice, using the exclusivity close along with the urgency close, I see she made it to Chapter 8 of Ziglar.

    I’ve got a special deal, it’s secret, and just for you, but you’ve got to act quick, because once Monday comes along, this one will be gone! Quick, honey, get the checkbook!

    Christ, she’s even got you polishing her knob and sending her crap.. You are right, she is the alpha.

  173. cobbler says:

    Grim, belated congratulations!

  174. Anon E. Moose says:

    JJ [174];

    She did an estate sale near me priced it 75k under market and sold it in one minute a few months ago.

    Wow, doesn’t that take skill!

    Reminds me of when my mother listed her house. Realtor says you should list it for X, my fee is 5%, blah, blah, blah. I told her that I can list it for 80% of X tomorrow and have an offer same day, and you’d owe him nothing. So if he sells it for X, his commission isn’t 5% of X, but 25% of his value added. PS, he had to cut the price to get it sold, and he still took his contractual 5%.

  175. chicagofinance says:

    Just to be clear, a lot of rich people who don’t make big salaries, but have huge investment pools just own sh!tloads of mini-bonds…….in fact, I think Buffett is a perfect example…..it kind of place the whole rich people evading taxes argument into the sh!tter for the bullsh!t that it is…….

    Ragnar says:
    October 12, 2012 at 2:45 pm
    I remember Sastry got upset when I complained about my taxes, he said I was showing off. I forget what handle he uses now, had the same politics as cobbler and yome, but wasn’t retarded like they are. Yet Warren Buffet complains about his secretary’s taxes all the time and nobody minds because together they look like Ma and Pa Kettle, and even though nobody can figure a way that his secretary can pay taxes of 35.6% without making over $500k/yr.

  176. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    It’s disheartening how empty the stands are at the beginning of the Yankees game. Well-to-do white bread who aren’t really baseball fans end up with all the post season tickets these days and it just shows poorly. In years past you had the real fans there until the WS started.

  177. yome says:

    Chi,
    Is this statement true? Thanks

    “Suppose that we issue $4 trillion in 30-year bonds at 2.75 percent interest. If interest rates return to more normal level (say 6.0 percent on 30-year bonds) in 3 years we would be able to buy the bonds back for around $2.2 trillion, eliminating $1.8 trillion on debt. This would not change our interest burden”

  178. yome says:

    I understand when rates goes up you loose the value of the bond. Why be scared of having a large deficit and be afraid of rates going up if the statement is true

  179. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    What was the coupon on those 50 year Goldman Sachs bonds from a few years ago?

  180. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Found it. I’d like a second bite at that apple.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303341904575576272129018674.html

    The issue was increased from an originally announced $250 million because of strong demand. The bonds were priced to yield 6.125%, compared with initial guidance of 6.125% to 6.250%. In the institutional market, Goldman would have had to pay 6.750%, according to people following the deal.

  181. yome says:

    178
    Jets tickets are selling 50% the value of Giants ticket

  182. Ernest Money says:

    Zig Ziglar should be executed. Shit like his is how Madoff types hawk their trade.

  183. Ernest Money says:

    Most RE training basically turns the recipient into one of the links of a human centipede.

  184. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    They were ahead of their time:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jukQX2pl2Q

  185. yome says:

    US IMMIGRATION VISA FOR THE RICH

    Under a federal program created in 1990 and known as EB-5, wealthy foreigners can in effect buy U.S. immigration visas for themselves and their families by investing at least $500,000 in certain development projects. In the past two decades, much of the investment has gone into commercial real-estate projects, like luxury hotels, ski resorts and even gas stations.

    Advertise | AdChoices

    .
    Lately, however, enterprising brokers have seen a golden opportunity to match cash-starved charter schools with cash-flush foreigners in investment deals that benefit both.

    “The demand is massive – on the school side,” said Greg Wing, an investment advisor. “On the investor side, it’s massive, too.”

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49393388/ns/us_news/#__utma=14933801.355792999.1350083515.1350083515.1350083515.1&__utmb=14933801.1.10.1350083515&__utmc=14933801&__utmx=-&__utmz=14933801.1350083515.1.1.utmcsr=(direct)|utmccn=(direct)|utmcmd=(none)&__utmv=14933801.|8=Earned%20By=msnbc%7Ccover=1^12=Landing%20Content=Mixed=1^13=Landing%20Hostname=www.nbcnews.com=1^30=Visit%20Type%20to%20Content=Earned%20to%20Mixed=1&__utmk=119593608

  186. Lanette says:

    Hello. fantastic job. I did not anticipate this. This is a impressive story. Thanks!

  187. Libtard at home says:

    Here’s the score from last night. Baltimore $ 81,428,999 Yankees $ 197,962,289

  188. Mookie says:

    189,

    O’s-80M-93 wins
    Mets-94M-74 wins

    What’s your point?

  189. Juice Box says:

    Sigh another report from the front lines. Another bicycle was stolen yesterday from our building, and another attempt made to gain access by impersonating UPS. Seems I now need to rally the building to petition for better security namely a video intercom, and a little bit of education for the younger crowd living here who never really suffered through a Crime wave. Allot of the bicycle thieving perps according to the local blogs are junkies. We have an intercom now but it is only audio and the neighbor who let them in said the said the perp rang the buzzer and said “UPS sir”. I wonder how bad it will get when all of those tempting UPS packages start arriving for Christmas season.

  190. cobbler says:

    ragnar [161]
    If you count FICA paid by her and by Berkshire on her behalf, Warren’s secretary easily pays 35% in taxes if she earns (with the bonus, etc. ) 100 K or so.
    As for my politics, in most of the developed world they’d count as center-right – actually, I normally vote R for the NJ state legislature and the freeholders. However, in most of the developed world Ayn Rand freaks like you – or Paul Ryan for that matter – are considered nuts…

  191. zieba says:

    Juice,
    This is exactly why I keep my LOOK upstairs and not in the co-op bike room downstairs.

    Are you in the city?

  192. Juice Box says:

    Zieba close enough in Hoboken NJ, bicycle thefts are nothing new just the newcomers that are oblivious, since they are mostly careless. My insurance will.cover a new bike for me but most do no not have insurance.

  193. Fabius Maximus says:

    #16 grim,

    Congrats by the way, life is about to get a lot more fun.

    Without the 5 in the district, who else will be availaible to work in the Gulch Starbucks to make the DINKs, grande, decaf, extra-hot soy Americano with extra foam!

  194. chicagofinance says:

    Common sense and simple bond mathematics……you can’t get blood from a stone….there is no magic here…..also you cannot force someone to redeem without a call provision or a tender…..

    yome says:
    October 12, 2012 at 5:32 pm
    I understand when rates goes up you loose the value of the bond. Why be scared of having a large deficit and be afraid of rates going up if the statement is true

  195. Fabius Maximus says:

    #80 Chi

    I apologize for calling you out personally, but I find your post out of order. This is to you, but applies equally to a lot of people on here. This site is one step down from Facebook and is hurting your and others careers.
    My perspective is from someone who thinks you need a professional intervention. I have read your posts for many years and this I think is the first time you have really gone off on someone like this. I don’t recall you going off on your dear Albanian friend when he went down under to tour his gold in the vault. There have been many people in her that have flaunted what they have made, how big their house is, what they drive, the trades they made, et al. It is part of life in here and for the most part it is not delivered as in your face.
    But here is where the intervention is required. You put yourself up here with a semi public persona. We know what you do and where you work. While you don’t trawl directly for business, if someone shows up here with a 400K number, that to you should be a prospect. If they are not a direct prospect, they will be in circles of people that may need your services and could send you recommendations.
    But what do we see of you in here. Yes you are smart and know the markets, but you go off on emotional rants that kill your brand. While your firm is small and may not know or tolerate your actions in here, bigger firms would boot you to the curb.
    When I go to look for a financial professional to manage my money, I don’t want emotional, I want analytical and calm. Describing your clients as the equivalent of a the dumba$$ fcuk that wasted their life and want you to turn what they have left into a comfortable retirement is not good marketing. While that may be your true feelings you need to use your “inside voice” with your semipublic persona

  196. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    I keep my Ti Spectrum in our living room. All the rest of my bikes (and I have many) in the bike room. No problems in 10 years, but this is Boston, not NY/NJ.

    Juice,
    This is exactly why I keep my LOOK upstairs and not in the co-op bike room downstairs.

    Are you in the city?

  197. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [197] FabMax – Lighten up, Francis.

  198. grim says:

    I’ve always kept my mountain bikes (80s baby blue rigid fisher converted to single speed, 90s Trek 990 in the awesome root beer color, decked out in a bunch of trick Pauls bits in Rasta colors, and Dean carbon hardtail) in the garage (mud and all), but my road bike (Ciocc) has always been inside.

  199. yome says:

    Thanks for the response Chi

    Re:bikes

    Is there a big difference between a walmart and those expensive bikes aside from the weight? I still have my walmart bought in 96. Not much of a rider.I ride around the park once in awhile.
    Prices on those bikes can really get up there.

  200. yome says:

    Mine is a mountain bike with 10 speed from wal mart

  201. yome says:

    Found the answer from Mr Google

    There are cheap bikes and there are inexpensive bikes. Cheap bikes are simply made out of the least expensive parts that can be put together. They use cheap steel or aluminum and have heavy wheels, shifters and components without the benefit of durability, reliability or function. They are usually sold at department stores and are put together by an employee with no concept of cycling. Inexpensive bikes offer good value and performance by approximating the best at a small fraction of the cost. These would be entry-level to mid-level bikes that benefit from assembly by trained bike mechanics and are usually sold at bike shops and reputable online stores. You can expect a cheap bike to last a year at the most (with lots of problems) while an inexpensive bike will give you thousands of miles of usage

  202. grim says:

    For riding around the park occasionally, no.

  203. grim says:

    If you are talking about bicycles which are intended to be raced, either recreationally, or more advanced, much of the price boils down to 2 things. Advanced materials/technologies, and the level of sizing/customization involved.

    I won’t talk about materials, but things that were previously the stuff of aerospace, like carbon fiber, kevlar, titanium, advanced aluminums, are all now pretty commonplace. The work involved in building a titanium or carbon bicycle is significantly higher than a mass produced mild steel bike in China.

    Sizing is where the price comes in. Bikes in these categories come in more sizes than you’d find at a shoe store. It’s not uncommon for a bike frame to come in 7 different sizes, and across manufacturers to come in dozens of different geometrical configurations. A good bike shop will measure you, and build you a bike that fits you. They’ll measure height and weight, and inseam, and femur, and shin, and shoe size, and torso length, and shoulder width, and arm length, and hand size, and so on. They’ll match your geometry up to a handful of builders and models that match the kind of bike you are looking for. Then, they’ll customize things like stem lengths and angles, handlebar sizing and widths, crank lengths and widths, seat heights and setbacks, etc. This kind of customization doesn’t come cheap.

    When you buy a bicycle in Walmart, your choices are typically: Adult or Child, Red or Blue.

  204. Fabius Maximus says:

    #199 Expat,

    Shelling peanuts can be done with a light touch, but busting walnuts needs a bit of extra weight.

  205. yome says:

    Grim,
    I did not realize you can get all that customize and involved from a local bike shop. Thanks for explaining.

  206. yome says:

    When Bank of America agreed in December to pay $335 million to resolve federal charges that its mortgage-lending arm discriminated against black and Hispanic borrowers, government officials hailed it as the largest fair-lending settlement in history.

    But, in fact, the banking giant has the right to a massive discount on the payout. Thirty-five percent of the settlement is deductible. That means Bank of America could wind up saving $117 million on its tax bill.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-hidden-cost-of-government-settlements/2012/10/12/ff53be08-096c-11e2-858a-5311df86ab04_story.html

  207. DL says:

    Returning to Doylestown this month to look at houses. We have a number, we’ll make an offer, and we’re prepared to keep looking if anyone gets insulted. One property is priced close to what nearby houses have sold for and has been 130 days on the market with one price reduction. The other is priced 67k over what it sold for in 2005 and has been on the market 10 days. I suspect the latter will need some time before the seller is willing to accept a lower offer and based on Grim’s experience, if we bid, we may end up being the guinea pig who provdes the reality check that benefits the bidder after us.

    On another topic, as one of the poorer posters here, I’m scheduled to order a new 535i on Monday and trade in my 2004 525i with 59k miles, which is in perfect condition. I thought I was being smart getting rid of an 8 year old car before the problems started cropping up. After reading some of the mileage stats posted here, I now think I ought to keep it. You’ve got 48 hours to convince me.

  208. chicagofinance says:

    Maybe in the future, but as of today, there is literally zero chance of getting an A-list client off of the internet……people go onto the internet to get for free what should be paid. Just as people here deride what clot does for a living and consistently call real estate agents overpaid tour guides, the same mentality applies to my field…..I think roughly 50% of my rich content posts from 2005-2007 was some version of a poster suggesting that I overcharge people, a monkey could do my job, and anyone with half a brain would stick their money in index funds. I come here to get the pulse of an intellectual swath of the New Jersey public, but nothing else. Also, in my job, my clients really appreciate my unfiltered and no-selling approach.

    To be clear, the idiots that I decry on these boards ARE NOT MY CLIENTS. These are people who walk in the door with their tales of woe and destructive behavior patterns. They self-select away from me or they have no real business to transact anyway….or else these are people who inherit money and are soon to be ex-clients…..

    I am Eastern European…..my last name ends in a vowel. I am Jewish and Muslim. I am one step removed from being Greek. I am emotional. I seethe in the face of stupidity and injustice. My clients want to see that I am living and breathing…….they cry in our conference room and they call us when they are scared.

    One of the Financial Planning practices I hold up as a model is a guy up near Boston. I would do well to emulate him. His greatest competive advantage was that he had a strong business handed to him by his father. That said, he had the drive and foresight to take it up to the next level. He is Jewish. He said in front of a room of 250 at the FPA conference a couple of years ago that everyone assumes that since he was Jewish that most of his clients would be as well. He said “actually very few of my clients are Jewish. They have difficult personalities, are seldom satisfied, always want a bargain and are constantly nickeling a diming you on the bills.” I would argue that any contacts based on the Internet are roughly the same. It is adverse selection.

    I also openly state that I have preconceived notions through anecdotal experience. I won’t give a board recounting of them, but three notable ones are professionals who are unlikely to be good clients. Engineering and computer sciences professionals tend to really think that their analytical acumen carries over to finance, so they are utterly uncoachable, and draining and unpleasant to interect with. Doctors have a G-d complex and will only give instructions, they will not respond to advice. Lawyers think that they can manipulate everything, but at least they are considerate when it comes to the idea that a professional’s time is billable and everyone deserves to make a living, but they are overconfident in their abilities and generally sleazy in business dealings…….

    I will change my mind in about 10-15 years once the generation that has fully embraced the Internet begins to really be in control of large sums of money. My tactics will need to be altered.

    Fabius Maximus says:
    October 13, 2012 at 1:32 am
    #80 Chi I apologize for calling you out personally, but I find your post out of order. While you don’t trawl directly for business, if someone shows up here with a 400K number, that to you should be a prospect. If they are not a direct prospect, they will be in circles of people that may need your services and could send you recommendations. But what do we see of you in here. Yes you are smart and know the markets, but you go off on emotional rants that kill your brand. While your firm is small and may not know or tolerate your actions in here, bigger firms would boot you to the curb. When I go to look for a financial professional to manage my money, I don’t want emotional, I want analytical and calm. Describing your clients as the equivalent of a the dumba$$ fcuk that wasted their life and want you to turn what they have left into a comfortable retirement is not good marketing. While that may be your true feelings you need to use your “inside voice” with your semipublic persona

  209. Phoenix says:

    [212]
    “actually very few of my clients are Jewish.
    They have difficult personalities, are seldom satisfied, always want a bargain and are constantly nickeling a diming you on the bills.”

    Expecting performance for pay- what’s wrong with that? Every other business expects the same thing.

  210. cobbler says:

    chi [212]
    Every issue of the Sunday Star-Ledger in its business section has an article describing a person or a family in a certain life situation (in most cases, retirement planning), and advice that a financial consultant gives to them. In most cases, this advice is borderline ridiculous, and certainly doesn’t encourage any thinking person to call the “consultant of the day”.
    Just being curious, if you don’t like having engineers/scientists/computer pros, doctors and lawyers as customers, who else is left having money to invest – small business people?

  211. Ernest Money says:

    It is the end of days. Prepare well for the final holocaust.

  212. Juice Box says:

    You own personal Jesus. We all know you love that song Chi….

  213. scribe says:

    Grim,

    Congrats on the grimmette!

  214. chicagofinance says:

    cob: Everyone else……by the way…you sound like the guys who are i-bankers in NYC? “Doesn’t everyone in NYC work in finance?”

    cobbler says:
    October 13, 2012 at 1:36 pm
    chi [212]
    Every issue of the Sunday Star-Ledger in its business section has an article describing a person or a family in a certain life situation (in most cases, retirement planning), and advice that a financial consultant gives to them. In most cases, this advice is borderline ridiculous, and certainly doesn’t encourage any thinking person to call the “consultant of the day”.
    Just being curious, if you don’t like having engineers/scientists/computer pros, doctors and lawyers as customers, who else is left having money to invest – small business people?

  215. chicagofinance says:

    A lot of people do not respect my time. In a sense it is hypocrisy….they demand someone who doesn’t work on commission, but then they scoff at either paying for my time, or else paying a flat fee for service……or alternatively paying me to manage money in lieu of financial planning fees…..that only leaves “free”…..and believe me, it comes to the point sometimes where I have been treated with such utter professional disresepct that they are actually inviting me to fcuk them……since I work in a highly regulated and compliance oriented field, I always do my best to walk away…..the client is always right in the eyes of arbitrators…..hence avoid all clowns at all costs…..

    Phoenix says:
    October 13, 2012 at 1:23 pm
    [212]
    “actually very few of my clients are Jewish.
    They have difficult personalities, are seldom satisfied, always want a bargain and are constantly nickeling a diming you on the bills.”

    Expecting performance for pay- what’s wrong with that? Every other business expects the same thing.

  216. Thankyou for this grand post, I am glad I found this site on yahoo.

  217. Captain Sunshine says:

    The Holocaust is NOT coming, D-Day is!

    Prepare to storm the shores and Liberate this mutherfcuker!

  218. Juice Box says:

    Chi you charge 2 and 20?

  219. Comrade Nom Deplume in PA says:

    [206] fabius,

    extra weight? I can break walnuts with one hand. Though I usually use two.

  220. Comrade Nom Deplume in PA says:

    [209] juice,

    I think you are correct. There will be no charges before the election, and likely none after.

    On an unrelated note, I have a “friend” who is in the Civil Rights Div. at DOJ, and she is always on facebook. She is absolutely open about the political bent of her work in a way that used to be frowned upon, if not outright banned over there.

    So if anyone was still wondering if the administration has turned DoJ into another arm of the campaign, you need only friend a DoJ attorney to find out.

  221. Juice Box says:

    Anecdotal – was up in Vernon today at Heaven Hill farm with the family for some pumkin picking and fun. Plenty of Kyrillos signs out but none for Romney. I do remember lots and lots of McCain/Palin signs back in 08.

  222. cobbler says:

    Last Republican Senate candidate in NJ with the decent election chances had been Bob Franks in 2000. People donating to Kyrillos campaign would have more satisfaction from their spending if they gave to a local Rescue Squad.

  223. Jill says:

    Just back from Chapel Hill, NC, with a plan to try to hang onto my pharma job till I’m 67, then buy into a nice villa at Carolina Meadows continuing care community and plant roots there. It’s going to be the place where old hippies go to die. The only problem is that nightmare scenario of the Grateful Dead cover band playing on Saturday afternoon in the assisted living. Still, that’s less nightmarish han the Green Day cover band that will be following 10 years later.

  224. Ernest Money says:

    All over but for the crying.

  225. Ernest Money says:

    All the ancient plagues will be revisited upon us.

  226. Captain Sunshine says:

    Tears of joy!

  227. cobbler says:

    BUYING or selling a Manhattan co-op has long presented unexpected pitfalls and moments of unique drama. But as real estate prices continue relatively flat, one obstacle has become more prevalent: Co-op boards are rejecting sales outright if they deem the price of the apartment to be too low.
    Some boards are so determined to hold the line on prices that they are unswayed by buyers’ offers to place years of maintenance fees in escrow, to increase the down payment and even to pay in cash.

    Co-op boards aren’t required to disclose the reasons they reject applications, which makes it difficult to determine just how often buyers are being turned down because the offer isn’t as high as the board might like. But interviews with more than a dozen Manhattan real estate experts, including brokers, board members and real estate lawyers, suggest that boards are saying no more often as they seek to maintain the value of the apartments in their buildings amid a sea of price-conscious buyers.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/14/realestate/co-op-boards-to-buyers-nah-not-at-that-price.html?hp

  228. Ernest Money says:

    Locusts, death of the firstborn, plague…

  229. chicagofinance says:

    Is this the game show $25,000 Pyramid or is it Password?

    Ernest Money says:
    October 14, 2012 at 10:20 pm
    Locusts, death of the firstborn, plague…

  230. If you have a property sale coming up then you need to be focused on getting the best price possible. The better your home sale goes, the more capital you have to work with and the more options become available to you in terms of future investment.

  231. Brian says:

    They actually discovered something in Sparta the other day…it’s called “mile a minute” weed. It’s a very aggressive invasive species. Originally from east asia. It’s a vine, covered in thorns, that climbs and covers everything. Effectively covering native vegetation….blotting out the sun…killing native vegetation…DEP guys seemed worried.

    Ernest Money says:
    October 14, 2012 at 12:43 pm
    All the ancient plagues will be revisited upon us.