Thanksgiving Open Discussion

This is the time and place to post observations about your local areas, comments on news stories or the New Jersey housing market, open house reports, etc. If you have any questions you wanted to ask earlier in the week but never posted them up, let’s have them. Also a good place to post suggestions, requests for information, criticism, and praise.

For readers that have never commented, there is a link at the top of each message that is typically labeled “[#] Comments“. Go ahead and give that a click, you might be missing out on a world of information you didn’t know about. While you are there, introduce yourselves to everyone.

For new readers that have only read the messages displayed on the main page, take a look through the archives, a substantial amount of information has been put online in the past year. The archives can be accessed by using the links found in the menus on the right hand side of the page.

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65 Responses to Thanksgiving Open Discussion

  1. Ernest Money says:

    Final doom is nigh.

  2. grim says:

    From the Star Ledger:

    Businesses have positive outlook for N.J. economy for first time in 8 years

    One in five New Jersey businesses polled by the New Jersey Business & Industry Association expects to increase hiring next year, according to the Trenton-based advocacy group’s annual survey.

    Eleven percent of participants in the September survey, most of them small companies with fewer than 50 employees, expect to make workforce reductions.

    Both of those measures have shown improvement since last year’s study, when 15 percent planned to grow their workforces and 13 percent were forecasting cuts. And for the first time in eight years, the number of businesses with a positive outlook on the state’s economy outnumbered those with a negative outlook.

    “The findings of this year’s survey are encouraging,” said NJBIA president Philip Kirschner, who released the findings this morning at a news conference at the group’s Trenton headquarters. “Business is picking up, business confidence is rising and growing numbers of businesses believe New Jersey is on the right track.”

  3. Ernest Money says:

    grim (2)-

    And these positive feelings are based on what facts?

  4. Ernest Money says:

    Most of the small business owners I know are focused on either shutting down their businesses or getting out of NJ.

  5. Fast Eddie says:

    Happy Thanksgiving to all.

  6. Mikewaited says:

    Happy Thanksgiving all!

  7. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey And Happy Thanksgiving!

  8. 3 b Buying says:

    #2 Improve,emt?? Seems like it barely budged. Happy Thanksgiving all!!

  9. Libtard at home says:

    Happy gobble gobble peeps!

  10. An observer of Jerzy Shore says:

    This is what everyone that is going to rebuild next to the beach needs to built.

    Is a concrete shell with the ground floor for storage/garage only. The rest of the place is concrete. I first saw this house in the web a few years ago, when they use to rent it. Is built in the Florida Gulf Coast.

    http://www.domeofahome.com

  11. 3 b Buying says:

    #12 Geez talk about a fluff piece. Somebody OD’d on too much turkey already. No mention of all the negatives, Gobble, gobble!!

  12. Pete says:

    Happy Thanksgiving All! Here’s some music to enjoy on the holiday!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6ry4k84coQ

  13. Ernest Money says:

    The ones smoking the hopium are the ones who eventually are left holding the bag.

  14. cobbler says:

    Happy Thanksgiving All!

  15. Essex says:

    I always ask someone else to hold my bag. Happy T’anksgiving.

  16. Fabius Maximus says:

    Happy Thanksgiving, some food for thought!
    http://youtu.be/81U07CqFPYs

  17. joyce says:

    (12)

    The author claims the deficits are not shrinking, but shrinking as a percentage of GDP (nice slight of hand). Government spending (which is in a huge deficit) adds to GDP. So the numerator and denomintor are both increasing. Big whoop.

    Happy Thanksgiving

  18. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Hope you Jets fans ate before the game and that dinner was enjoyable.

  19. Fast Eddie says:

    Nom,

    It’s still a long season to go but if the Pats stay healthy and keep playing this way, they’ll run the table and hoist a trophy in the end. Should we set up for another Giants-Pats Superbowl? ;)

  20. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [25] Eddie,

    Ugh. I hope not.

  21. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    Redux

    Not as in a Pats-Giants Super Bowl. As for Brady hoisting the Lombardi Trophy, from your lips to God’s ear.

  22. grim says:

    Sandy smashes homes, FEMA smashes home values.

    From the Record:

    FEMA to update flood zone maps for N.J. shore towns

    Some residents of New Jersey’s coastal towns may soon be required to purchase flood insurance, and not just because of the recent devastation wrought by Hurricane Sandy.

    By next year, the Federal Emergency Management Agency is scheduled to complete a major update of flood zone maps for shore towns, some of which haven’t had them revised in decades.

    FEMA regional specialist Barbara Lynch tells The Press of Atlantic City that the new maps should be ready by the end of next summer. They use laser technology that can determine land elevation to within six inches.

    That could mean homeowners who haven’t had to buy flood insurance may have to. In the wake of Sandy, that prospect may not be disagreeable to many.

  23. Brian says:

    How about we take money wasted in subsidies to the Federal Flood insurance programs and spend it on engineering programs and planning programs designed to protect property (beach replentishments, dunes, etc.) We may also have to come to terms with the fact that the barrier islands are not stable permanent pieces of land. Plant life on the island has adapted to living on an island that is constantly changing. Maybe it’s time humans do the same.

    In rebuilding, respect changes in land, sea

    http://www.dailyrecord.com/article/20121121/NJOPINION03/311210002/In-rebuilding-respect-changes-in-land-sea

  24. Fast Eddie says:

    Nom,

    If was say, the Pats vs. anyone in the NFC East except the Giants in the SB, I would hope for a 70 – 0 Pats victory. I hate.. HATE the Eagles and Cowboys. If it was anyone else in the NFC, I’d have to go with the NFC team. Sorry. :) lol! Anyway, the Jets s.uck! Holy c.rap!

  25. grim says:

    Maybe it’s time humans do the same.

    Rebuilding is an individual decision, based on land ownership, funded individually, and of course approved by zoning.

    However, if what you are saying is not to rebuild, who compensates the owner for their property? Does the collective “we” purchase the property from the owner, to turn it into parkland? Also, the more local “we” end up paying higher taxes, as the current budget is divided amongst fewer remaining homes.

    That’s the rub here, it’s easy to say don’t rebuild when it’s not you that owns the property (and may have paid a pretty penny for it).

    And similarly, changing zoning with the intent of making a previously buildable lot now unbuildable is essentially the illegal taking of property, even worse than eminent domain, as the owner wouldn’t be compensated.

    Unfortunately, perhaps the correct decision was never to allow the land to have been build on, or owned by the public, in the beginning. Hindsight is blah blah blah.

    If we want to talk about FEMA having any business insuring shorefront properties, I’m with you here. I could probably be persuaded to believe that the original intent of FEMA flood had nothing to do with insuring multi-million dollar oceanfront palaces. Why not have FEMA step back and allow the private market to cover? (other than flood insurance costs probably going to double or triple, but hey, that’s what happens when you lose a subsidy).

  26. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [27] Eddie,

    I can live with that. I’m happy to have you on board if its boys or skins (the iggles are no threat to make the playoffs–Mrs Deplume may have to be a Pats fan for the duration).

  27. Brian says:

    Grim I love the Jersey shore. I was there 3 times last year. Once in Seaside Park and twice in Wildwood. I have many relatives that own property and boats down there. I spent many summers there. I want to see it rebuilt.

    What I’m saying is, now that this storm is fresh in everyone’s mind, and we have witnessed what has worked and what hasn’t, we should rebuild….just rebuild smarter.

    Money, time, and effort just seems better spent on preventative measures. They say cleanup efforts may cost billions. It might have been cheaper to build smarter rather than insure everything, then rebuild it after it’s destroyed.

  28. grim says:

    And yes, I believe that the NJ Highlands Act was pure robbery made legal by legislature.

  29. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [27] Eddie,

    I do have to throw the Jets fans a bone. If the Jets run the table AND the Pats lose every remaining game, the Jets make the playoffs.

    So its not mathematically impossible. There is a faint glimmer of hope for the greenheads.

    That said, I hope the Pats end the Jets’ hopes next week.

  30. grim says:

    Somebody should drive a bulldozer through McGreevy’s house in Plainfield (does he still live there?) and tell him he can’t rebuild anymore, as the land is necessary to protect the sensitive Plainfield ecosystem.

  31. grim says:

    Whatever happened to the old real estate adage, “don’t fall in love with the view unless you own it?”

  32. Mike says:

    Win or lose the Jets Flight Team is awesome!

  33. Fast Eddie says:

    Nom,

    If the Jets run the table AND the Pats lose every remaining game, the Jets make the playoffs.

    We have a better chance of seeing Romney get elected. ;)

  34. Mikewaited says:

    Anybody need one of these for their kids.
    http://www.buylifetime.com/products/blt/pid-71566.aspx
    Come & get it 100 bucks, fine shape net is like new , must never have used.
    You can take apart but will still need pick up or van.

  35. Ernest Money says:

    Fact is, very few coastal areas are appropriate for human habitation. The gubmint should not be in the business of insuring high-risk properties- in any kind of flood zone- period. Let the private insurance market handle this stuff, and you will immediately see an appropriate number of homes in flood zones…being owned by people who understand the risks and can afford the premiums.

    The current system is just another example of private risk being borne by the public at large. We simply can’t afford it anymore, and it’s not a legitimate activity for the gubmint to be involved in.

  36. Ernest Money says:

    Then again, the doling out of gubmint cheese in the aftermath of completely predictable disasters is a great way to buy votes, so expect FEMA-type feelgood programs and gubmint insurance of deathtrap homes to expand.

  37. Ernest Money says:

    Where’s my stinking FEMA trailer?

  38. Mikewaited says:

    Clot “We simply can’t afford it anymore, and it’s not a legitimate activity for the gubmint to be involved in.”
    That and a host of other things, fat chance common sense will win out. Smoke’m if you got’m.

  39. Mikewaited says:

    41 Ding! Ding! Ding!

  40. joyce says:

    Fast Eddie,
    I do not understand why advocates of assistance programs such as FEMA can only reply with emotion-driven comments during times of disasters like this… while ignoring the fact, as you said, that if the areas were only 25% as much populated (if that) the damage would be minimal.

  41. joyce says:

    (45)
    I meant to reply to (40)-(41) Ernest Money

  42. Mikewaited says:

    joyce emotion works, weighing the cost vs benefits is beyond the general populaces thought process.

  43. Brian says:

    Thank you Captain obvious. You are ignoring the fact that the islands are already built up. If any of us were over 150 years old, or could go back in time, we should make the argument that we should not build on a barrier island.

    Making that argument now is a bit late and doesn’t help anybody.

    Is your FEMA comment directed at anyone in particular? I don’t remember anyone here advocating for FEMA with emotion driven comments on this blog.

    45.joyce says:
    November 23, 2012 at 11:56 am
    Fast Eddie,
    I do not understand why advocates of assistance programs such as FEMA can only reply with emotion-driven comments during times of disasters like this… while ignoring the fact, as you said, that if the areas were only 25% as much populated (if that) the damage would be minimal.

  44. Mikewaited says:

    Brian been doing the shore from Belmar to Wildwood for 50 years. Unfortunately we are not in a financial position to rebuild our memories (sad yes) nor re insure what are sure losers of home sites.

  45. Juice Box says:

    If you are bored Highway 36 is open again. Take a ride and what is left of Sea Bright.

    http://photos.nj.com/star-ledger/2012/11/state_highway_36_reopens_in_se_7.html

  46. Juice Box says:

    Morsi’s Wiki entry has been updated.

    “5th Dictator President of Egypt”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Morsi

  47. Brian says:

    I’m all about saving money Mike……..

    http://blog.nj.com/ledgerletters/2012/11/after_hurricane_sandy_examinin.html

    “Dunes protect us …

    Ongoing assessment of Hurricane Sandy’s damage confirms that recently replenished beaches and maintained engineered beaches and dune systems provided significantly better protection and minimized inland damage to homes and coastal infrastructures than adjacent unreplenished, nonengineered systems.

    The cost savings to businesses, insurers, municipalities, the state and the federal government are extensive. Bradley Beach Mayor Julie Schreck said, “The dunes cultivated several years ago protected not only private property, but public property and infrastructure, including the sanitary sewer system, roads and sidewalks.”

  48. joyce says:

    Brian,
    My comment was made in general. So what if the islands are already built up. FEMA was created in the late 1970’s. Perhaps, your commet is a bit late and doesn’t help anybody.

    If people had to pay market value for flood insurance, they would be forced to not build or build with superior materials. What is wrong with that? Should the local, state, and federal govt keep pouring money into the areas of Jersey that flood even when it’s just a large rain storm? (e.g. Fairfield, Little Falls, etc etc) How much is enough? The concept of the govt buying them out of the properties is ludicrous because those properties are borderline worthless.

    48.Brian says:
    November 23, 2012 at 12:09 pm
    Thank you Captain obvious. You are ignoring the fact that the islands are already built up. If any of us were over 150 years old, or could go back in time, we should make the argument that we should not build on a barrier island.

    Making that argument now is a bit late and doesn’t help anybody.

    Is your FEMA comment directed at anyone in particular? I don’t remember anyone here advocating for FEMA with emotion driven comments on this blog.

  49. njescapee says:

    Wildfires, tornadoes. flash floods, hurricanes, earthquakes, environmental disasters, sure private insurance market will handle all of these risks and make all of the insured whole.

  50. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [53] Joyce,

    Fabius is a huge FEMA fan. He is of the opinion that we were all helpless waifs until FEMA came along.

  51. joyce says:

    (54)

    One can buy insurance for almost anything they want. Your problem is not that private parties won’t offer insurance… but that it will be expensive. Coming from someone in Florida, I’m not surprised.

  52. joyce says:

    (56)
    To continue… this is similar to health insurance with respect to the recent “debate” on contraceptives. It was never about access; it was about who was going to pay for it.

  53. joyce says:

    (54)

    Not to mention, how is the government going to “make everyone whole” when we’re broke? Not that it’s the government’s job to do that anyway.

    Well, I guess it is in the age or bailouts and moral hazard.

  54. Mikewaited says:

    New thread up!

  55. Brian says:

    They’re already rebuilding Joyce. So, at this point the debate about whether or not to do it is pointless.

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