The “ratio of earnings to home prices seems different now than when we were starting out.”

From the Record:

Baby boomers in need of buyers

Empty-nesters Dan and Christa Mondoro put their five-bedroom Franklin Lakes house on the market last summer. Since their two adult daughters have moved out, Christa Mondoro said, “it just didn’t seem to make sense for the two of us to stay there, as much as we love the neighborhood.”

It’s a decision a lot of baby boomers are making.

“They’ve have had the kids, they’ve had the back yard. The kids are gone, and now this big house they’ve had for so long — it’s time for them to move to something that’s more cost-effective and energy-efficient,” said Gina Palumbo, an agent with Abbott & Caserta in Wyckoff.

As members of this giant generation — 77 million people born between 1946 and 1964 — downsize or move to sunnier and lower-tax areas, some analysts wonder if there will be enough younger buyers who will want and can afford the supply of large, suburban family homes the boomers are leaving behind. If demand slackens, prices are likely to drop.

The problem is simple, said Dowell Myers, a professor of demography at the University of Southern California: “There are too many baby boomers.”

“There’s very little evidence that the large suburban homes that baby boomers may be looking to sell will actually sit there vacant and unused,” said Paul Bishop, vice president of research at NAR. “At some price, people will be willing to buy large houses in suburbia. They may be worth less than the sellers hope to get. … It’s a very dynamic market.”

The Mondoros expected their house — on the market for just under $1 million — to be snapped up quickly, probably by a family with young children, people like the Mondoros when they bought the house almost 20 years ago. So far, that hasn’t happened.

“I don’t think our kids are as fortunate as we were, given the job market,” said Christa Mondoro, 55. “I don’t think kids have the same resources we had. A lot of them have student loans. And the ratio of earnings to home prices seems different now than when we were starting out.”

It’s by no means certain how the aging of the baby boomers will affect the housing market. A number of factors are at work. For example, the many baby boomers plan to work past the normal retirement age — whether by choice or necessity — which means they’re not moving to Florida as soon as they might have.

And George Masnick, a fellow of Harvard’s Joint Center for Housing Studies, argues that younger generations are larger than their initial birthrates would suggest, since immigration added to their numbers as they grew up. Masnick says that both the “baby bust” generation and the millennials now number more than 80 million, thanks in part to immigration. That widens the pool of potential buyers.

Palumbo, for one, thinks immigrants could be potential buyers for baby boomers’ big homes, especially immigrants who need space for elderly parents. And Bishop said that surveys show that immigrants and their children are just as interested in becoming homeowners as non-immigrants.

Jeffrey Otteau, an East Brunswick appraiser who tracks the housing market statewide, believes that location will be become even more crucial when a large number of boomer houses hit the market. Homes in the most sought-after towns, with excellent schools and easy commutes to good jobs, will still sell. But there’s likely to be less demand for larger homes in exurban towns that require long commutes, he said.

The Mondoros, who are moving to a town house in Rockland County, say they’ve had a lot of lookers at their Franklin Lakes home. But so far they’ve received only one offer, for less than they were willing to accept.

“I thought it would sell quickly,” said Dan Mondoro, co-owner of a business that installs high-end audio and video systems. “It’s in great shape.”

This entry was posted in Economics, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

108 Responses to The “ratio of earnings to home prices seems different now than when we were starting out.”

  1. Ernest Money says:

    These are the same Harvard eggheads who concluded in 2005 that there was no housing bubble.

    “And George Masnick, a fellow of Harvard’s Joint Center for Housing Studies, argues that younger generations are larger than their initial birthrates would suggest, since immigration added to their numbers as they grew up. Masnick says that both the “baby bust” generation and the millennials now number more than 80 million, thanks in part to immigration. That widens the pool of potential buyers.”

  2. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Everybody Says You Should Downsize. Everybody May Be Wrong.

    The McMansion generation is in downsizing mode.

    Millions of Americans age 50 and older are looking around their spacious homes and are deciding they don’t need all that room anymore. The kids are gone, maybe a spouse, too. And they could really use the money from a sale to bulk up their retirement funds.

    But downsizing isn’t always simple, painless—or even all that beneficial financially. With the real-estate market still fragile, many baby boomers are getting a lot less than they expected for the old homestead. All too often, they have little cash left over after buying a new place, and their monthly expenses don’t fall as much as they thought—or may even rise instead.

    “Don’t make any broad assumptions that downsizing is going to save your retirement,” cautions Jeff Bogue, a certified financial planner in Wells, Maine. “It may help your finances, but I’ve seen plenty of people who find that it doesn’t pan out as they had thought.”

    Consider a study from Boston College’s Center for Retirement Research that looked at older adults who moved in the 1990s and early 2000s due to a change in circumstances, such as a job loss or divorce. The report found that while these movers generally chose to downsize, they didn’t get much in the way of a financial windfall. In fact, on average, they plowed almost all of their home equity into their new homes, freeing up an average of just $26,000.

    Marian Crapanzano and her husband, John, both 67, recently forfeited a deposit on a condominium in Rockland County, N.Y., because they couldn’t sell their three-bedroom home in nearby Stony Point. “We had our house on the market for eight or nine months, and we didn’t have any offers,” says Ms. Crapanzano, a paralegal. “People weren’t even coming to look at it.”

    The potential problems don’t end once downsizers move into their snug new abodes. With fewer square feet to heat, mow and pay property taxes on, many downsizers assume they’ll slash their monthly expenses. But unless you’re willing to move to a part of the country with a lower cost of living, the savings may prove modest, cautions Beth Blecker, CEO of a financial-planning firm in Pearl River, N.Y.

    Among older Americans who pull up stakes, a “large majority” settle within 20 miles of their previous homes, according to a 2009 Boston College study. While this lets them stay close to friends and family, it also leaves them paying similar prices for food, utilities and other essentials. “If you move to a retirement community with a pool and fitness center, your monthly expenses may even go up,” Ms. Blecker adds.

  3. Ernest Money says:

    The Mondoros will either drop their price, or leave that house feet first.

  4. grim says:

    Seems different, just can’t quite put my finger on it … quote of the year.

  5. Mike says:

    Good Morning New Jersey

  6. can i AX a question? says:

    Did somebody say “upper class” over the weekend?

    Over 300 employees had a median pay of $388,000. WSJ:

    Scrutiny of Fannie, Freddie Pay
    An inspector general’s report is bringing renewed scrutiny to the pay levels of hundreds of senior managers at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac who earned more than $200,000 last year.

  7. chicagofinance says:

    Harvard’s Joint Center for Housing Studies is not an objective voice. It is reliant on significant funding from home builders and real estate related business.

    Ernest Money says:
    December 10, 2012 at 7:26 am
    These are the same Harvard eggheads who concluded in 2005 that there was no housing bubble.

    “And George Masnick, a fellow of Harvard’s Joint Center for Housing Studies, argues that younger generations are larger than their initial birthrates would suggest, since immigration added to their numbers as they grew up. Masnick says that both the “baby bust” generation and the millennials now number more than 80 million, thanks in part to immigration. That widens the pool of potential buyers.”

  8. grim says:

    Like a true public-private partnership, no? When they win, they win, when they lose, we lose.

  9. chicagofinance says:

    I fundamentally disagree with this opinion, and have counseled several clients to move purely to “expense” downsize. They don’t need to dramatically alter the price point on the house, but rather focus on a place that has less ongoing upkeep expense.

    grim says:
    December 10, 2012 at 7:26 am
    From the WSJ:
    The potential problems don’t end once downsizers move into their snug new abodes. With fewer square feet to heat, mow and pay property taxes on, many downsizers assume they’ll slash their monthly expenses. But unless you’re willing to move to a part of the country with a lower cost of living, the savings may prove modest, cautions Beth Blecker, CEO of a financial-planning firm in Pearl River, N.Y.

  10. grim says:

    I think the challenge is that many downsizers are also upscalers.

    They’ll downsize, but they want the brand new decked out townhouse and condo, granite, stainless, 200 square foot walk in closets, cavernous master baths, etc, etc. $500 a month maintenance? No problem, it’s got a dry cleaner and a concierge.

  11. Fast Eddie says:

    grim,

    You picked the perfect title for this post. When I read this article yesterday, I almost put my head through the wall. I still think we’re going to slide further in this area.

    Sellers, you still need to lower your f.ucking price.

  12. grim says:

    Their issue is that they are comping against dissimilar home styles (namely, the soaring foyer center hall colonials). Fine, it’s a huge 5 BR, but when the highest ranch sale in the last 6 months was $825k? A million is a bit of a stretch there.

    Granted, it’s a nice house, but I think its still $100k too high. The ranch on Gregory that closed earlier this year appears to be a nicer house, and that only closed at $930k.

  13. Phoenix says:

    I did not actually count, but checking the M/C Sheriff website foreclosure activity there sure appears to be picking up.

  14. Phoenix says:

    Ranches cost more to build from what I was told. Do they have less resale value/desirability?

  15. Painhrtz - Not like you can dust for vomit says:

    well the mondoro’s bought that house in 1993 for 420K. should be paid for but bet they mortgaged it to the hilt to pay for Paige and Justine to passed around by frat boys like cheap whiskey at (insert out of state university du jour) and now they want some sucker to bail them out to the cool toon of 1M with 13K per year taxes. Good Luck with that.

  16. grim says:

    Scheduled sheriff sales? We’re heading into the holiday freeze, expect nothing to happen until January.

  17. grim says:

    15 – I see a $300k in 2009.

    The $13k in taxes isn’t problem. On a relative basis, it’s a steal compared to other towns. What does the $13k you’ll pay in Clifton get you over the $13k you’ll pay in Franklin Lakes? In Glen Ridge, the taxes would probably be $20k.

  18. grim says:

    My grotto is worth more than your house, clearly there is still money sloshing around…

    “This is like ‘screw you’ money,”

    From CNBC:

    Meet the Pool Guy to One Percent

    Art had Rembrandt. Music had Mozart. The high-end pool industry has Mark Werner, a 35-year-old entrepreneur from New Jersey, who builds million-dollar swimming holes for the rich and sometimes famous.

    Even in a stagnant U.S. economy, Werner is earning a comfortable living creating designer pools for the wealthy. From waterfalls to elaborate tile selections, no detail is too small. In time, Werner—who credits his training as a Marine for his drive and success—hopes to rank among the top, master pool designers in the world.

    For his rich clients, a couple hundred thousand for a pool is pocket change. “This is like ‘screw you’ money,” Werner said. “Instead of putting it (the extra money) in the stock market, let’s put it in the backyard” is their thinking, he said.

    Werner said his customers in the greater New Jersey and New York City metropolitan area include bankers, business owners and a smattering of celebrities. whose names he said he can’t disclose.

    A basic pool starts at $200,000, ballpark. More lavish options can run up to $2.5 million. Waterfalls and infinity edges are practically standard issue at this high end of the pool market.

    The real money, Werner said, lies in artistic additions. Special lighting effects go for $50,000 and up. Grottos can set you back $150,000. Hand-carved rock formations can range from $200,000 to $300,000. Outdoor kitchens, fireplaces and TVs are extra of course.

    “We’re doing a pool right now that comes off the second floor of a house,” said Werner. “The vanishing edge is made out of acrylic like a fishbowl. It has columns with torches. I’ve never seen anything like it.”

  19. freedy says:

    Chinese buying up US homes

  20. 250K says:

    cobbler from yesterday

    >>Still, there are millions of families in this state where both members are working as
    >> hard as you but make 1/2 or 1/3 of the money… Should we tax them more?
    No, I don’t think we should tax “them” more. But if they are making 1/3 of my HH income their kids will get excellent financial aid to pursue higher education and one of the primary reasons we are a two-income HH right now is so we can save for a possible 3 college tuitions. (Please, no one turn this into a discussion on the value of a college education.)

    Also, I am more interested in our government redefining a “wealthy” household. This is not 1969 anymore and the 155 HHs that the original version of AMT was meant to address have turned into something like 10 million? (I am sure those with accounting backgrounds will correct/attack my facts if they are wrong.)

    I think Clot said it best a while back, the rich will continue to find ways to avoid paying their taxes and keep more money in their pockets and the poor will be given the best seat at an all-you-can-eat social welfare table (heavy paraphrasing going on here.) The rest of us best be prepared to remain stuck in neutral.

    I am also a firm believer that the AMT is killing small-business jobs creation and we all know where at least half of US jobs come from…

  21. Ragnar says:

    Grim,
    I have a theory that people who don’t really earn their money (get it via graft, fraud, corruption, handouts) spend it horridly. Thus corrupt officials in China buy super-expensive watches, go on gambling junkets, etc. Drug dealers spend on weird cars and women. Bailed out bankers buy gurgling grotto pools for mini- playboy mansion parties.

    Anyway, I think how people spend their money says a lot about how hard they worked to earn it. Easy come, easy go.

  22. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Every room has it’s own roof.

    Ranches cost more to build from what I was told. Do they have less resale value/desirability?

  23. Fast Eddie says:

    well the mondoro’s bought that house in 1993 for 420K.

    Based on long term market trend, the house will hammer at around 735K.

  24. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    [22] Large criminal enterprises are the extreme example. Many in the organization are involved solely in the collection and distribution of money. They heavily spend it into the communities they operate in to keep everybody “happy”.

  25. Richard says:

    Did anyone see this open home in W Orange on the weekend? http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/55-Glen-Ave-West-Orange-NJ-07052/38747325_zpid/

    1.1million for a palace. OK its run down but cheap! Until you see the taxes $41k, f*** me. 4% pa?

  26. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    How’s this for a funny coincidence? The Mondoros bought from a retiring couple who downsized to smaller house in Mahwah, 283 Vista View Dr. They still live there, aged 89 & 84 and their taxes are only $7400.

  27. POS cape says:

    “Marian Crapanzano and her husband, John, both 67, recently forfeited a deposit on a condominium in Rockland County, N.Y., because they couldn’t sell their three-bedroom home in nearby Stony Point. “We had our house on the market for eight or nine months, and we didn’t have any offers,” says Ms. Crapanzano, a paralegal. “People weren’t even coming to look at it.””

    To paraphrase the ole’ Church Lady from Saturday Night Live, could it be, let me see, oh I don’t know…PRICE!!!

  28. Grim says:

    Richard – looks like the perfect property for a group home or halfway house.

  29. JJ's B.Se says:

    The senators are pushing the “Hurricane Sandy and National Disaster Tax Relief Act of 2012” through Congress, announced just one day after President Obama asked Congress to provide billions in relief aid to the states impacted by Sandy, with the hopes of advancing the bill before the fiscal cliff debates expire.

    The bill would allow taxpayers to deduct all storm clean-up expenses, among other measures. The 10 percent penalty for withdrawing from retirement plans early will be waived, and those who offered free housing for Sandy victims for at least 60 consecutive days can claim a $500 tax exemptions up to four times. Businesses in the storm region with fewer than 200 employees who continued to pay employees will also be offered a tax credit.

    “It means if you have to pay to have your home repaired, or have someone come and pick up the debris or cut down badly damaged trees, those expenses can be deducted from your taxable income,” Senator Schumer said at a press conference.

    what a boom for contractors, home depot and lowes!!

    I really really really need this bill to pass. If it does Obama only in office for little over a month and already made me a member of the 47%!!! Thank you O

  30. Anon E. Moose says:

    Ragnar [22];

    +1

    Why is it that people who earn millions for play acting on cue feel compelled to tell the ‘little people’ how they should spend their money, but a person who built a small business now worth a couple million is content to pay 10x the median tax bill if he can just be left the hell alone?

  31. Essex says:

    31. Because entertainers get inside of peoples’ heads and hearts. They are listened to. The guy who owns the local dry cleaners… Not so much.

  32. Anon E. Moose says:

    Sx [32];

    “Shut up and sing.”

  33. grim says:

    Ranches – All things being equal with a CHC, the CHC will sell for a higher price and sell faster. Not to say that Ranches don’t sometimes pull in equivalent numbers, but those cases tend to either be more about the buyer, otherwise, the house may have had some unique finishes/figures/style, etc.

    It’s just a fact of this area, the stone front CHC is in very high demand. Likewise, the 9 window colonial (5 across the top, 2-door-2 on the bottom), tends to pull in buyers like crazy. Why? Timeless design I guess, it just works.

    Every room has it’s own roof.

    This may be so, but generally ranches tend to have simplistic rooflines. So while overall square footage might be higher, the labor associated with the kinds of hyper chopped rooflines you find on modern designs tend to drive the overall prices of those roofs up much higher.

  34. grim says:

    Based on long term market trend, the house will hammer at around 735K.

    Looking at the pictures, they not only kept up with maintenance, but made a number of above-and-beyond improvements that should push that number higher, $735k is waaaayyyyy too low.

  35. Ernest Money says:

    The bloodletting is coming. It will all be rendered worthless.

  36. Ernest Money says:

    Now would be a good time to organize your armed gang of pals.

  37. Brian says:

    Grim, what’s a CHC?

  38. Ernest Money says:

    Center Hall Chumpbox

  39. Painhrtz - Not like you can dust for vomit says:

    brian center hall colonial

  40. grim says:

    Center Hall Colonial

  41. Ragnar says:

    My grandfather in-law was a prosperous merchant in China, and his family owned the biggest house in the relatively small town. Then the communists took over the house and forced what was the richest family in town to live in what had been the servant’s quarters. With a $41k/yr tax bill, I think this is what the West Orange comrades in city hall have in mind for the owners of the house listed in #26. Who in their right mind would pay $41k/yr to the West Orange town leeches for the “privilege” of living in their “own house”. The police may as well just seize the place right now, like the Chinese commies did to my in-laws. The NPV of that house’s tax liability is now greater than that home’s market value.

  42. Brian says:

    Gotcha.

    Also on the subject of Ranch style homes….one of the only offers my mother recieved on her Lake Mohawk home was from a couple looking to downsize and wanted something all on one floor (her house is mostly all one level except for one of the bedrooms). The guy’s wife was sick and he didn’t want her going up and down stairs all of the time.

    I imagine Ranch style houses are attractive for people looking to downsize and retire.

  43. Juice Box says:

    re # 35 – ” waaaayyyyy too low.” That is what the previous owners said back in 93 when the Mondoros made their offer for $420k. Prices were still dropping in price back then. I remember looking at a few homes in that neighborhood back around 94-95 that were 3 handles.

    History Rhymes and this time is no different, there won’t be any immigrant buyers with grandparents unless they bring back the NINJA loans……

  44. Ragnar says:

    What is the big deal about fancy ceilings? These days I see a lot of homes in upscale locations with “coffered ceilings”. Why? These ceilings are typically just fancy add-ons done by the same mexicans who do the sheetrock. Nothing structural. There are retrofit kits that can be used to acheive this if you really want the look of wood on your ceiling. Why would people pay an extra 200k to have all their ceilings done up fancy? I doubt there’s a big acoustic impact. I understand why people like high ceilings and large windows – it gives a house light and a feeling of airyness. But lots of wood in the ceiling?

  45. Painhrtz - Not like you can dust for vomit says:

    Rag because HGTV said it is all the rage. Don’t get it either looks like a PITA to paint.

  46. 30 year realtor says:

    How does it escape the Record that the real story is about empty nesters over pricing their homes. The market is great, if you are priced properly.

  47. yome says:

    Ask Re investor,he will tell you,he is not giving away the house.A true rock rib American will hold his ground.

    “How does it escape the Record that the real story is about empty nesters over pricing their homes. The market is great, if you are priced properly.”

  48. Anon E. Moose says:

    Main Post;

    “I don’t think our kids are as fortunate as we were…”

    … but that will be $1 MM to buy us off our fiefdom. Once again, the game is clear from the Locust Generation: You screw my kids, I screw your kids, and lets all retire in Boca together.

  49. Ernest Money says:

    There will be no Boca. There will be no retirement. There will only be the gnashing of teeth.

  50. Anon E. Moose says:

    Money [51];

    I wonder what they think is going to happen when they are feebile and helpless, while the young toils away to pay off their student loans used to keep the illuminati comfortable in their ivory towers, their mortgages taken to buy out the retiring Locusts at windfall profits on their houses: for the most part, debts owed to the pension funds ultimately funneling money to the older generation. Like I’ve said, it’s not a class war per se, its a generational war.

  51. 250K says:

    NJ Transit chief: Train storage decision ‘sound’

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/NJ_Transit_chief_train_storage_decision_sound.html

    “Jim Weinstein says rail yards in the two cities had never flooded before.”

    Is this all she wrote on the topic? Really Jim Weinstein? You were told that the storm surge would be unlike anything experienced before, Kearny rail yard had water coming within several hundred feet with Hurricane Irene but it had never happened before so I guess, impossibly by your standards?

    It doesn’t matter does it? NJT reports all service has been restored, doesn’t have to mention that its with fewer trains which leaves buses and trains packed to the gills during rush hour, many stops were lost and still have not been restored. What a total sham.

  52. 250K says:

    >>so I guess, impossibly by your standards?
    impossible

  53. Punch My Ticket says:

    I have to give the Mondoros some credit. Unlike many vendors, they know they’re trying to sell at a price that is unreachable by even the above median buyer.

    A Jersey treat for a gloomy Monday, not completely SFW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CLQ4EUmm6U

  54. Phoenix says:

    Money and Moose- Both on target. Question is, what do I tell my kid?

  55. Fast Eddie says:

    grim [35],

    It’s not too low, Mr. Market doesn’t care that Brice and Muffy have designer bedrooms or that Muffy’s mommie has mahogany t1ts. They’re insulted on the offer? Too f.ucking bad, find somebody else with 20% down and an 840 FICO. They’ll ride the market until, eureka, hammer price is around 735K. ;)

  56. reinvestor101 says:

    >>>>yome says:
    December 10, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    Ask Re investor,he will tell you,he is not giving away the house.A true rock rib American will hold his ground.

    “How does it escape the Record that the real story is about empty nesters over pricing their homes. The market is great, if you are priced properly.”<<<<

    Stinking liberal. I'm glad you're coming around to my damn way of thinking. Damn right, your damn ribs are rocked when you hold your damn ground against these damn insurgent cheapass buyers who want to lowball their ass into a damn house. THEY WILL NEVER LOWBALL THEIR WAY INTO MY DAMN HOUSE AND I DON'T GIVE A TINKER'S DAMN ABOUT WHAT THE DAMN WALL STREET PUNDITS HAVE TO SAY. You will pay for my damn house if you want it–and when you see it, you're gonna want it. I WILL NOT APOLOGIZE FOR BELIEVING IN THIS DAMN COUNTRY AND THE REAL ESTATE MARKET.

    You'll pry my damn deed from from cold dead hands before I give my damn house away–and you'll have to fight like hell to even get it then.

  57. Fast Eddie says:

    How does it escape the Record that the real story is about empty nesters over pricing their homes. The market is great, if you are priced properly.

    Any questions? B1tch?

  58. Fast Eddie says:

    The title of the article should read, “Baby boomers in need of s.uckers”

  59. JJ's B.Se says:

    Hey I am trying to figure out for tax reasons damage to my home. Apparently the deduction is for contents not covered by insurance and damage to home not covered by insurance. Based on fair market value of items (used value) plus cost to bring home back to pre-disaster condition. Write off is not based on how much you spent to fix it or any improvements.

    So my Den, lower bathroom, furnance/washer room, electrical box, main sewer line, furnance and oil tank as well as electric in lower level were distroyed.

    Main level dishwasher, oven, 350 square feet of warped oak floors and subfloors and replace bottom four inches of sheet rock plus rewire some lights. .

    Garage took on 7 feet of water, so resheet rock and insulate plus new door.

    Porch, lost freezer as it is already rusting.

    Contents, all of den, laundry room, lower bathroom, and near all of shed, porch, garage.

    Now IRS wants me to assign a loss value based on damage, not cost to fix or buy new stuff.

    Now I am cheap and get off the books folks etc. So I dont want to short change myself.

    Also some folk thinks my house might be very devalued down the road as I was at the epi-center of the flood. House to left and right were basically distroyed. Since I have no paperwork for any repairs, how does that work when I sell? I bet if I sell in next five years and someone sees new furnance, oil tank, new wiring, new bathroom, new appliances then pull carpets upstairs and see warping or see the sheet rock cuts hidden by trim they will start asking for stuff. Which I dont have

    What would you say IRS wise was damage to my house in dollars. Would a real estate agent care that house was in a flood at one point or how would they know since I had no insurance claim on house and filed no permits. Technically they are in-kind repairs, stuff I replaced was already there.

  60. Ernest Money says:

    phoenix (56)-

    Easy: arm yourself.

    “Question is, what do I tell my kid?”

  61. 1993 House Buyer says:

    #57, your price may be the actual selling price but if they can not “afford” that, then they will just stay I imagine……and those taxes are not too bad …..they may stay 20 years and that may go for a lot of their ilk…

  62. Juice Box says:

    re #50 – “: You screw my kids, I screw your kids, and lets all retire in Boca together.”

    Mother Mondoro is speaking from her own experience I bet.

    “A lot of them have student loans. And the ratio of earnings to home prices seems different now than when we were starting out.”

    I goggled the name Mondoro got a hit on the daughter. She is now a recruiter at JPM after graduating from Fairfield with a BS in math, most likely wanna be teacher cannot get a teaching job. 4 years at a $50k a year school you can bet she has a ton of loans.

  63. Juice Box says:

    #51 – re: “No Boca”

    A friend’s ex-wife just sold her 5 BR haughty NJ digs last summer after her youngest left for college this year. Full ask price too. She packed up everything but the kids stuff and shipped it off to her new smaller home on the inter-coastal in Florida where she and her new hubby will be retiring at the ripe old age of 55. No room for the bedroom sets of the kids. That was shipped off to Dad’s house where they will now be arriving for every Holiday and possibly after the graduation and when they cannot find work, there is no room for the kids in Florida.

  64. Brian says:

    66 –
    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/world-2030-u-declines-food-water-may-scarce-162757458–politics.html

    Nom, what struck me was that it was a lead article on Yahoo today. I’m not really a gloom and doom guy but it doesn’t seem so “tinfoil hat” when it’s a lead article on a mainstream website…..

  65. Ernest Money says:

    And all this time, I thought cobbler had cornered the world market for donkey cheese.

  66. Ernest Money says:

    The Hunt brothers must be spinning in their graves.

  67. Ernest Money says:

    I rest assured jj is still king of the donkey punch.

  68. Painhrtz - Not like you can dust for vomit says:

    With all the jackasses in this world who knew it was in short supply

  69. Ernest Money says:

    Cheesedicks are not the same as donkey cheese.

  70. Brian says:

    73 – I’m guessing you’ve tasted both? You seem to be somewhat of an expert…..

  71. Anon E. Moose says:

    250k [53];

    Stealth staffing cuts for budgetary control? Less equipment means less operators. No way in hell the unions would sit still for layoffs. So, file under ‘never let a crisis go to waste’, they trash the rolling stock (capital costs/bonds used to pay for them already built into the budget) and get to tell their bosses and eventually the public that they cut operating costs. People who don’t ride on a daily basis won’t know any better. Riders sure don’t get a fare cut to compensate for the lower costs, or sardine trains.

  72. reinvestor101 says:

    Let me tell you something, I will not live in a world where commies and liberals are running the show. WE CAN NOT LET THE COMMIES IN CHINA OVERTAKE US. THIS IS BULLSPIT:

    http://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/2012/12/10/us-intel-report-china-to-overtake-us-economy-by-2030/

    Do you know how close 2030 is? IT’S ONLY 18 DAMN YEARS AWAY. If we don’t stop this shlt, our damn kids will be learning about Mao and the damn Great Leap Forward and there’s no damn way I will ever accept that.

    Maybe we should send some damn drones over there. What? You don’t think they did anything to us? STFU, they did enough and don’t bother me with what your confusion about what you think are facts.

  73. Statler Waldorf says:

    Ernest, Boca dreams turned to Bohica reality.

    “There will be no Boca.”

  74. The Original NJ ExPat says:

    Bohica Raton. Love it.

  75. grim says:

    Selling expensive homes in Franklin Lakes is not a problem, don’t misunderstand the article. The houses that don’t sell, don’t represent the market, but believe me, there is a market.

    There are lots of empty nesters with huge homes that are having NO PROBLEM liquidating.

    Here is the last years worth of Franklin Lakes sales over $500k:

    257 FOREST GLEN – 500000
    780 COLONIAL – 512000
    805 OLD MILL – 515000
    644 HIGH MOUNTAIN – 520000
    754 COLONIAL – 530000
    769 OLD MILL – 555000
    524 HADDON – 576000
    907 HILLTOP – 579000
    338 LENAPI – 580000
    927 FRANKLIN – 585000
    584 SPRUCE – 590000
    1016 FRANKLIN LAKES – 610000
    1012 VALLEY – 612000
    745 FRANKLIN LAKES – 625000
    565 HADDON – 640000
    772 MCCOY – 650000
    211 DEERFIELD – 687000
    373 WILDWOOD – 694000
    224 STEVES – 695000
    390 PULIS – 695000
    1055 FRANKLIN LAKES – 699000
    865 SUMMIT – 700000
    570 COVINGTON – 700200
    332 VALLEY VIEW – 705000
    275 WAYFAIR – 710000
    749 SUNSET – 728000
    800 WINTON GATE – 750000
    330 FREEMANS – 750000
    850 AZTEC – 760000
    821 SCIOTO – 770000
    660 CHEYENNE – 777000
    757 DAKOTA – 785000
    618 PAWNEE – 785000
    305 LONG BOW – 785000
    330 LYNN – 800000
    659 WINDING HOLLOW – 809625
    994 DOGWOOD – 810000
    869 HIGH MOUNTAIN – 825000
    1043 DOGWOOD – 835000
    721 SMOKE HOLLOW – 847000
    818 SUSSEX – 850000
    883 HILLTOP – 872000
    758 IRON LATCH – 875000
    304 FORSYTHIA – 875000
    686 CHEYENNE – 890000
    704 COTTONWOOD – 890000
    661 SHAWNEE – 910000
    922 HILLTOP – 915000
    700 SMOKE HOLLOW – 915000
    760 SMOKE HOLLOW – 920000
    272 GREGORY – 937500
    709 SOMERSET – 950000
    502 MORTIMER – 970000
    732 WARREN – 999000
    1077 FRANKLIN LAKES – 999999
    300 LOCUST – 1000000
    399 SCHOLAR – 1040000
    750 ONEIDA – 1077000
    124 DELAWARE – 1125000
    913 CHEROKEE – 1125000
    817 WINNEBAGO – 1130000
    309 HOBAR – 1140000
    806 SUSSEX – 1150000
    782 OLD MILL – 1162000
    890 COLONIAL – 1175000
    323 FREEMANS – 1200000
    703 SUNNY BANK – 1205000
    966 LILY POND – 1245000
    301 GREENRIDGE – 1250000
    867 MEADOW – 1250000
    887 SCIOTO – 1250000
    722 JENNY – 1275000
    1080 FRANKLIN LAKES – 1290000
    747 BUTTERNUT – 1300000
    212 OLDWOODS – 1345000
    606 OLD FORGE – 1360000
    813 SUSSEX – 1368000
    805 LENEL – 1380000
    136 DELAWARE – 1450000
    302 ROCK RIDGE – 1450000
    228 SEMINOLE – 1450000
    773 SANTA FE – 1465000
    20 SHINNECOCK – 1500000
    594 SUMMIT – 1500000
    236 SEMINOLE – 1500000
    747 BUTTERNUT – 1550000
    296 GLEN – 1578360
    620 HIGH MOUNTAIN – 1635000
    752 SHOSHONE – 1685000
    3 SHINNECOCK – 1750000
    249 HIDDEN POND – 1807000
    720 APPLE RIDGE – 1900000
    859 OLD MILL – 2100000
    951 DOGWOOD – 2200000
    84 BIRCH – 2265000
    724 VAN HOUTEN – 2300000
    757 BUTTERNUT – 2700000
    549 HAMPTON HILL – 3900000
    226 TERRACE – 4250000

  76. McDullard says:

    250k, my family is in that income range (give or take, hopefully more give than take!). We are no where near anything resembling comfortable, let alone rich (and we are definitely in no danger of the govt labeling us rich and “sacrificing” us). After all the deductions (retirement, property taxes, child care, health care, state taxes), we are firmly in the 28% bracket, and wouldn’t really suffer if that bracket went up to 33% (though we’d feel the difference).

    We have a lot of financial concerns (mostly centered about stability, costs of things like health care, and tuition costs for kids). However, if you think the idle rich that benefited the most from W’s tax cuts have similar types of problems, you are way off… Or, I am completely way off… If someone calls me rich, I’ll break out laughing.

    On a positive note, I think the tuition costs will head down in the next decade or so. Endowments at top schools are well off the lows of 2008, so if the kid has a couple of brain cells, there may be merit-based scholarships at top schools; there are also a lot of top-notch free online classes — for now in Comp.Sci, software, math, economics, finance, and “management”, but are expanding fast. If one becomes low income at that stage of life [e.g. thanks to one job going to ten fresh grads in another country], the kid may even get some financial assistance or loan.

    In our case, we are saving money for the kids assuming some worse case conditions (kid has brains but not enough, we have income but not high enough or low enough)…

  77. McDullard says:

    Ragnar,

    Then the communists took over the house and forced what was the richest family in town to live in what had been the servant’s quarters. With a $41k/yr tax bill, I think this is what the West Orange comrades in city hall have in mind for the owners of the house listed in #26.

    What sort of an equivalency are you drawing here exactly?

  78. 250K says:

    moose (75)
    >>and get to tell their bosses and eventually the public that they cut operating costs. >>people who don’t ride on a daily basis won’t know any better. Riders sure don’t get a >>fare cut to compensate for the lower costs, or sardine trains.

    I had the same thought that a year from now we will read how wonderful it is that they have maintained service while cutting costs but it would all be riding on the superstorm wave. Most people don’t have to deal with the Jersey to Manhattan commute (though this space might have a disproportionate number of readers that do) so they don’t really give a damn.

  79. Ragnar says:

    Dullard,
    The equivalency is this: the Chicoms took four fifths of the house all at once. Current government has figured out how to extract the maximum amount of resources, while pretending to support private property, and will extract nearly the full asset value of the house in taxes. Between federal, state, and local property taxes, the owner of that house is mostly working to support their govt masters.

  80. Anon E. Moose says:

    Re: [26];

    Realtor(s) stand to pocket $50k for their troubles… couldn’t they do better then pics taken with a flip-phone camera and dirty/scratched lens? Or is the gauzy lens part of the marketing plan?

  81. JJ's B.Se says:

    Sadly a 250K family income is pretty much middle class. Thing about it, dual income blue collar folks with some side income added in with dividends and interest easily clear 250K by 45-60. However, that is peak expense year if you have kids.

    Obama makes it seem like 250K is an income of a rich single person, but normally it is a family of five making 250K. That aint rich

    McDullard says:
    December 10, 2012 at 4:35 pm

    250k, my family is in that income range (give or take, hopefully more give than take!). We are no where near anything resembling comfortable, let alone rich (and we are definitely in no danger of the govt labeling us rich and “sacrificing” us). After all the deductions (retirement, property taxes, child care, health care, state taxes), we are firmly in the 28% bracket, and wouldn’t really suffer if that bracket went up to 33% (though we’d feel the difference).

    We have a lot of financial concerns (mostly centered about stability, costs of things like health care, and tuition costs for kids). However, if you think the idle rich that benefited the most from W’s tax cuts have similar types of problems, you are way off… Or, I am completely way off… If someone calls me rich, I’ll break out laughing.

    On a positive note, I think the tuition costs will head down in the next decade or so. Endowments at top schools are well off the lows of 2008, so if the kid has a couple of brain cells, there may be merit-based scholarships at top schools; there are also a lot of top-notch free online classes — for now in Comp.Sci, software, math, economics, finance, and “management”, but are expanding fast. If one becomes low income at that stage of life [e.g. thanks to one job going to ten fresh grads in another country], the kid may even get some financial assistance or loan.

    In our case, we are saving money for the kids assuming some worse case conditions (kid has brains but not enough, we have income but not high enough or low enough)…

  82. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    A little levity from Facebook:

    Things to Say to an Obama Voter Who Just Got Laid Off

    1. “Hey, at least that successful Mormon businessman didn’t win.”

    2. “Didn’t your lady parts warn you this would happen?”

    3. “Look at the Bright Side, Gay marriage passed in four states.”

    4. “Hey, Big Bird still has a job. Isn’t that the important thing?”

    5. “I am sure Obama cares deeply about your situation. Maybe he’ll send you a postcard from Hawaii.”

    6. “Well, look at the bright side, Rush Limbaugh is getting a massive tax increase.”

    7. “Hey! Now you’ll have more time to play with your unicorn.”

    8. “Isn’t it worth losing your job to know that religious organizations now have to pay for abortions and contraceptives?”

    9. “Well, now you and Keith Olbermann have something else in common.”

    10. “Forward!”

  83. Ernest Money says:

    Brian (74)-

    Go back to tending your stock-churning mutual fund gamblers.

  84. yome says:

    I believe $250k is AGI equivalent to $300k after a $50k deductions.

  85. yome says:

    Rich is what makes you live comfortably at an amount. A person making 350k is not rich if he has to pay bills with that money. A person making 100k with almost no bills to pay is richer in cash.

  86. Ernest Money says:

    Are there any other blatantly obvious things you’d like to inform us of, yome?

  87. Ragnar says:

    Comrade,
    Best answer is “Brother, you asked for it!” Lifting a line. From Atlas Shrugged.

  88. Ernest Money says:

    Getting to be time to default on your mortgage. Bomma’s gonna replace the head of FHFA.

    Here’s a bailout for you, Gary.

    “What is lost in translation is that GSE asset impairment would also lead to a possible future impairment of their liabilities, which are, for all intents and purposes, Federally guaranteed obligations of the US government ever since their September 2008 nationalization (after all the Fed is monetizing $40 billion of GSE debt each month precisely thanks to this loophole). As such, the cost will be borne out by those who still pay in taxes into that great insolvent institution known as the US, as all such tax payments will merely go to fund – both on a current and accrued basis – yet another massive financial black hole.

    Then again, who cares about details any more in a banana republic enamored with ultra-short term results and generating upticks in the DJIA at any (taxpayer) cost.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-10/obama-prepares-kick-out-fannies-ed-demarco

  89. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    [93] money,

    Yes,whenever Liesman is in the same building.

  90. Comrade Nom Deplume says:

    And the Nobel Peace Prize goes to . . .

    Wait for it!!!!

    The EU!

  91. BearsFan says:

    apologies for an unrelated post, but I need some help from the esteemed members of this blog related to FMLA and Disability.

    My brother (34) is about to undergo chemo next week after his 6 month post surgery/radiation blood levels were high. He works as a technician for a small biz (100 employees), paid hourly with benefits. Owner of small biz has told him he wants to put him on FMLA to ensure that his medical insurance coverage is not disputed, suggesting that if he were to go on disability, this could be the case. My brother called me and asked me what I thought, and I said I’m really not sure, I have to read up on it, but I also know a good place to ask :)

    Can anyone offer any info/opinions/suggestions. Thanks in advance, and sorry for the off topic post….

  92. McDullard says:

    BearsFan,

    Sorry to hear the news and wishes/prayers for things going well.

    http://employmentlaw101.blogspot.com/2011/05/family-and-medical-leave-and-short-term.html

    Your brother can have both at the same time — if the employer provides short-term disability coverage… get the supplemental income from the short-term disability insurance while having the job security via FMLA if he returns within four weeks (and more if the employer is cooperative).

    Nom is a great guy to provide info on this…

    I’ve known ignorant HR people that will try to convince you that their uninformed opinion is the correct thing. Be armed with facts and be prepared to escalate to higher ups.

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