No bubble in NJ – But we could be next to heat up

GTG Alert –NJRER GTG now scheduled for Thu 8/29 from 6:30 PM ’til whenever; venue — Montecristo Lounge at J&R Cigars, 301 Route 10 East • Whippany, NJ 07981 (973) 887-0800 (http://www.jrwhippany.com/index.cfm?page=lounge).

———————————————
From the Star Ledger:

No sign of a New Jersey housing bubble, according to report

Housing market watchers have been keeping a keen eye on the horizon for a bubble – when homes are selling for far more than they’re worth – to appear. The last time one did was in 2006. When it burst, it sent the economy into a tailspin.

With housing prices on the rise again, the fear of a new bubble has resurfaced.

But a report by Trulia finds prices are still undervalued relative to long-term fundamentals, especially in the New Jersey markets covered in the report.

“During last decade’s housing bubble, prices were as high as 39 percent overvalued,” Trulia chief economist Jed Kolko said in the report. “We estimate that national home prices are (now) 5 percent undervalued,” he said.

In the Newark area, home prices are up 3 percent over last year, but still undervalued by 3 percent. In Northern New Jersey and New York, home prices are up 5 percent, but the market is undervalued by 7 percent.

In the Edison-New Brunswick market, the market is overvalued by 3 percent – well within a safety range – as prices rose 8 percent.

Camden saw prices climb 3 percent, while homes remain undervalued by 10 percent.

“Even though prices are less undervalued than one quarter ago, our chances of avoiding a bubble have gotten better,” Kolko said in an e-mail. “Price gains are slowing down, and asking prices dropped in July. Unlike in last decade’s bubble, prices today have started to cool before reaching dangerous heights.”

From CNBC:

Housing recovery radar: Where are the next hot spots?

Here are states/cities where real estate pros say could be the next hot spots where the housing recovery heats up. While these markets have seen some recovery, they’re still down significantly from their peak.

TATES – New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, North Carolina, South Carolina, Florida

CITIES
Wilmington, Del.
Tampa, Fla.
Miami
Cape Coral-Ft Myers, Fla.
Orlando, Fla.
Chicago
Indianapolis
Minneapolis
Charlotte, N.C.
Newark, N.J.
Trenton, N.J.
Philadelphia
Reading, Pa.
Nashville, Tenn.
Memphis, Tenn.
Dallas
Houston
Ogden, Utah

This entry was posted in Economics, Housing Recovery, New Jersey Real Estate. Bookmark the permalink.

186 Responses to No bubble in NJ – But we could be next to heat up

  1. 1987 Condo says:

    #1? All sleeping?

  2. Comrade Nom Deplume at the beach says:

    Yes. Shhhh.

  3. grim says:

    Typical slow late summer, lots of vacationers before school starts up again in a few weeks. Shocked to see a 200+ comment day, not the norm at all for this time of year.

  4. Brian says:

    Housing hotspots….Newark and Trenton? Really?

  5. grim says:

    Just a snapshot of Essex Co. Foreclosures, we are indeed seeing some real action, problem is, nobody here is going to want the REO coming to market.

    7/23, 7/30, 8/6, and 8/13 Auctions (Buy Backs/REOs)

    Newark – 27
    Orange – 8
    East Orange – 6
    Irvington – 6
    West Orange – 5
    Bloomfield – 5
    Belleville – 3
    Maplewood – 2
    Nutley – 2
    Fairfield – 1
    Montclair – 1
    South Orange – 1
    Total – 67

  6. grim says:

    4 – Those reference the metropolitan divisions, not the actual cities.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas_of_New_Jersey

  7. NJCoast says:

    Beach day!

  8. grim says:

    I have no idea of the history of those breakdowns, I believe they are somehow geared towards the largest cities in the underlying MSAs.

    Edison always stands out as an odd one to me, everyone immediately thinks the town of Edison, where the MSA would probably better be named “NJ Shore”, as it contains all of Monmouth and Ocean.

  9. grim says:

    7 – You can get internet on the beach these days – no longer a good excuse.

  10. anon (the good one) says:

    very sad. these teatards are deeply mentally ill.

    “PITMAN — An autopsy showed that 6-year-old Frankie Adolf Jr., found dead with his mother and father Tuesday morning, died from blunt force head injury and strangulation, the Gloucester County Prosecutor’s Office announced.

    Authorities believe the child’s father, 49-year-old Francis Adolf Sr., killed him and his mother — Francis’ wife Bonnie Adolf — before killing himself in the family’s home at 65 Kenton Ave.

    Until the end of July, Francis tweeted often, on politics, social issues and other topics. He’d posted 2,106 tweets and had 210 followers.

    On his Twitter account, he referred to himself as a “Christian Libertarian,” and his commentary at times criticized President Obama, left-wing personalities, Roman Catholics and others.”

  11. grim says:

    For contrast, the last 3 sheriff sales in Bergen County – 7/26, 8/2, 8/9

    Bogota – 2
    Oradell – 2
    Harrington Park – 2
    Teaneck – 2
    Hackensack – 2
    Norwood – 1
    Westwood – 1
    Saddle Brook – 1
    Franklin Lakes – 1 (Holy crap, and on Indian Trail too, $2.4m)
    Carlstadt – 1
    Fort Lee – 1
    Ridgefield Park – 1
    Englewood – 1
    Fairlawn – 1
    Elmwood Park – 1
    Lodi – 1
    Total – 21

  12. Brian says:

    10 –
    Way to capitalize on a senseless tradgedy to make your political point.

  13. anon (the good one) says:

    yes, but that was mostly thanks to Michael. i do hope that he sticks around. fresh air. many here truly enjoy fellating each other and run out of town whoever gets on the way.
    remember, for example, a while ago a nice lady who had recently moved into town. she was cool an apolitical for the most part. Chifi in his usual retarded manner attacked her because she posted her husbands salary. she was gone after that.

    grim says:
    August 15, 2013 at 7:30 am

    ….Shocked to see a 200+ comment day, not the norm at all for this time of year.

  14. anon (the good one) says:

    12. how would I know anything at all about the facts other than what nj dot com listed as relevant? not making any point. the facts do.

  15. NJCoast says:

    I don’t bring the phone/iPad on the paddle board.

  16. grim says:

    Weekly jobless claims drop to 320k, 4 week average down to 332k.

    Fantastic numbers.

  17. Brian says:

    Still no excuse….otterbox came out with a waterproof case in February.

    15.NJCoast says:
    August 15, 2013 at 8:22 am
    I don’t bring the phone/iPad on the paddle board.

  18. Brian says:

    14 –
    Regardless of your political affiliation….it shows that you have zero class.

  19. grim says:

    10y pushing up strong this morning, hearing 2.79, this would push it to 2 year highs?

  20. grim says:

    CoreLogic MarketPulse for June is out

    NJ Statewide
    Home Prices (including distressed) – up 3.0% YOY
    Home Prices (excluding distressed) – up 3.7% YOY
    90 Day Delinquencies – down 6.3% YOY
    Foreclosure stock – down 20% YOY
    Home Sales – up 12.1% YOY

    NY-Wayne-White Plains, NY-NJ MSA
    Home Prices (including distressed) – Up 7.2% YOY
    Home Prices (excluding distressed) – Up 7.5% YOY
    90 Day Delinqencies – Down 9.5% YOY
    Foreclosure Stock – Down 16.1% YOY
    Home Sales – up 11.1% YOY

  21. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Anon, we are still waiting for you to go away. At least Jamil was entertaining, RE101 is currently making sweat deals and is probably insane any way. there are a multitude of libs who have come here and have had open discussion without parrotting the Team Blue party line. You on the other hand post crap and do not have an honest discussion regarding it.

  22. Fast Eddie says:

    Shocked to see a 200+ comment day, not the norm at all for this time of year.

    It’s my presence that creates such a buzz! ;)

  23. Sima says:

    Re: NJ employment
    1) Seeing more and better contract white-collar business jobs (in pharma, finance, insurance) offered in other states (even California) than in NJ.
    And “real jobs” are still very scarce and only offering low-ball salaries.

    2) My husband (working in a pharma-related contract job) reported that at his current place of employment, in a company area staffed just by well-educated and highly experienced contract workers – the THIRD person in about a 3 or 4 month period had a heart attack at work and had to be carted off by ambulance to the hospital.
    Of course, no cost to the company because there are no benefits – just extremely long work days, pressure to work hours for free, people let go with no notice, etc.

    Nowadays contract workers are truly “disposable” in every sense of the word.

  24. Fast Eddie says:

    But a report by Trulia finds prices are still undervalued relative to long-term fundamentals, especially in the New Jersey markets covered in the report.

    These reports have nothing to do with the NJ/NY area because of property taxes. The RE industry will continue to do its best to re-direct focus in order to keep the extortions commissions flowing. It’s always a good time to buy because there’s always one s.ucker coming around the corner.

  25. Fast Eddie says:

    Sima,

    It’s really sad and I’ve been a victim of it for a long time. This current job I have is a place I came back to only because it still has an insurance plan. My salary is 70% of where it should be but I eat sh1t and do my job just becasue of the insurance. I definitely feel for you and your husband and every time these recruiters call me with a contract job, I subtlely blast them.

  26. Brian says:

    We should send more money to the Abott districts. It’s only fair. Suburban and exurban kids don’t deserve the money as much. “to each according to their need” right? Besides, if we send even more money those cities and their schools will continue to improve! Do you hate city children or something? Struggling suburbanites deserve to suffer too! Get back to work and pay your taxes you ungrateful b@stard!

    24.Fast Eddie says:
    August 15, 2013 at 9:16 am
    But a report by Trulia finds prices are still undervalued relative to long-term fundamentals, especially in the New Jersey markets covered in the report.

    These reports have nothing to do with the NJ/NY area because of property taxes. The RE industry will continue to do its best to re-direct focus in order to keep the extortions commissions flowing. It’s always a good time to buy because there’s always one s.ucker coming around the corner.

  27. Libtard at home says:

    “very sad. these teatards are deeply mentally ill.”

    One of the dumbest things ever quoted here. Almost as dumb as when Obama claimed the police “acted stupidly.”

  28. NJGator says:

    Fast Eddie 22 – That it does. We must plan a GTG soon.

    “It’s my presence that creates such a buzz! ;)”

  29. Bystander says:

    Sima,

    Agreed. I work for IB in CT. Company recently told all managers that there are no hires for rest of year and to pull any pending offers. They are also going to review contract rates. A recruiter sent me contract job that is clearly at my current company. In fact, I know the PM and project. The rate $400-$450 a day for someone with 7 years experience as BA/PM with book hierchy migrations. Not easy task. I nearly choked. That is maybe 60k year after benefits and taxes etc. I take jobless claims as hogwash. Job quality is terrible.

  30. chicagofinance says:

    huh? I work in personal finance. The most highly obnoxious thing I can fathom is posting salary. Even worse, it was not even her own….

    anon (the good one) says:
    August 15, 2013 at 8:17 am
    Chifi in his usual retarded manner attacked her because she posted her husbands salary. she was gone after that.

  31. Sima says:

    Thanks Fast Eddie.
    I wonder how many of the ballsy and arrogant writers on this web site would cope if they had to try to get and then cope in current day contract jobs (not the high paying ones of years ago).
    It is sooo easy to know it all when you are sitting pretty and with a safety net (you have a real job that should be there a week or even month from now).
    Contract workers never even know for sure if they’ll even be paid for work they’ve done.
    And how will they pay the bills and mortgage? (or even can they get a mortgage?) They basically feel their contract job is day to day because they never know when it’ll end.
    When white collar contract workers are dropping like flies with heart attacks at a workplace, then you know it is seriously wrong there.

    And the reality is that contract work is on the increase .

  32. chicagofinance says:

    It was the new age Donald Duck….

    Fast Eddie says:
    August 15, 2013 at 9:09 am
    Shocked to see a 200+ comment day, not the norm at all for this time of year.

    It’s my presence that creates such a buzz! ;)

  33. Libtard at home says:

    I’m with ChiFi here. Most of us have pretty thick skins here. But there is little that is more pervasively moronic than the posting of ones salary.

  34. chicagofinance says:

    Don’t generalize. There is only one person here that fits that description, and while popular, he is also somewhat cartoonish.

    Sima says:
    August 15, 2013 at 9:37 am
    Thanks Fast Eddie.
    I wonder how many of the ballsy and arrogant writers on this web site would cope if they had to try to get and then cope in current day contract jobs (not the high paying ones of years ago).

  35. chicagofinance says:

    Actually, it speaks volumes about that poster that my post is cited as a major infraction. Truly demented…..

    Libtard at home says:
    August 15, 2013 at 9:39 am
    I’m with ChiFi here. Most of us have pretty thick skins here. But there is little that is more pervasively moronic than the posting of ones salary.

  36. Libtard in the City says:

    Nice open to the markets this morning. It appears the excellent economic numbers (unemployment claims) are leading the Street to believe tapering is more likely. If there was ever more evidence than the fact that the market is artificially inflated, I’d like to hear it.

  37. Sima says:

    Bystander –
    That pay rate of $400. to $450. per day seems to be the norm even in incredibly high stress, high knowledge areas in pharma, banking, and insurance.
    People with graduate degrees (MBAs), with international project experience, etc. are getting those and thrilled to actually get a contract job, even though they’re told it’s only for 3 to 6 months.

    “Bystander: The rate $400-$450 a day for someone with 7 years experience as BA/PM with book hierchy migrations.”

  38. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Moose I’ll add the 29th on the calendar as of now I’m in for a scotch and a smoke.

  39. Comrade Nom Deplume, drinking at the beach and posting right now says:

    [7] coast

    Already there.

  40. grim says:

    This was in the SL a few days back and I didn’t get a chance to post it:

    Tech jobs growing like weeds in N.J.

    Judging from job openings, New Jersey’s technology sector has grown enough to put the state in the same league as California, Texas, Virginia and New York, according to recent Bureau of Labor Statistics data.

    “We’re all a little surprised,” said Scot Melland, CEO of Dice.com, “but I guess we shouldn’t be.”

    The Iowa-based job listings site, a well-known destination that’s connected a lot of tech talent to paychecks in Silicon Valley, Texas and Mahattan, usually sounds unfamiliar to New Jersey ears, said Melland, but that might soon change.

    By Aug. 1, want ads from New Jersey companies seeking workers in the “computer systems design and related services” category had grown 5.2 percent over last year. The state added 3,600 new tech jobs by the start of this month, according to BLS data.

    As of yesterday, Dice had more than 4,900 jobs posted by New Jersey companies or firms with offices here.

    The growing availability of tech positions in the state has outpaced that of several East Coast neighbors, including Maryland, Pennsylvania, New York and Massachusetts — all of which earned spots on a top 10 list compiled by Dice.

    Meland expects to see more companies list tech jobs in New Jersey going forward because expensive downtown offices have started to lose their appeal in the startup community.

    One in five New Jersey tech workers had titles like computer analyst, engineer or programmer in 2011. That year, the average tech employee earned $103,215 — or 81 percent above than the statewide average.

  41. Comrade Nom Deplume, drinking at the beach and posting right now says:

    [12] brian,

    “let him rave on, that men will know him mad”

    Yul Bryner as Ramses II.

  42. Comrade Nom Deplume, drinking at the beach and posting right now says:

    [27] libtard

    I remember when he said that. I damn near spit out my coffee on the dashboard while driving down Rte 21 in Newark. I remember thinking to myself “oh man you just stepped in a big old pile of . . . .”

  43. Brian says:

    41 – Wow. Did you read the comments at the bottom of that story? A lot of people skeptical of the article and critical of dice.com. Looks like Dice customer service even logged in and replied to some posts. Interesting….

  44. Libtard at home says:

    I don’t have any big issues with any of our current or former paid-for presidents, but I also felt a little embarrassed for him when he was invited into the locker room to congratulate some sports team that had just won a national championship back around 2009 or 2010. He started talking with a hip hop accent to some of the black players. It was really difficult to watch. I was waiting for him to break out the b1tches and hoes line next. I’m sure it’s on youtube somewhere, but it would probably pain me to watch it again so I’m not going to look for it. I’m sure he developed that accent in the ghettos of Honolulu.

  45. Comrade Nom Deplume, drinking at the beach and posting right now says:

    anon reminds me of a guy I know. He is a black conspiracy theory type. He was educated at an extremely prestigious college that I know quite well as it was very close to my own. And he regularly posts stories about supposed racial slights that later turn out to be false or parodies.

    In one case, one of my favorites, he posted a story about the statue of liberty and commented on it until it was later debunked.
    http://www.snopes.com/history/american/statueofliberty.asp

    Recently he posted a story alleging that the texas dept. of ed wanted all textbooks to refer to slaves as unpaid interns. He posted it with withering commentary for Texas until someone pointed out it was a spoof. So he posted the original story and proclaimed that there was no difference.

  46. joyce says:

    more on what i posted last week:

    NSA, DEA, IRS Lie About Fact That Americans Are Routinely Spied On By Our Government

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jennifergranick/2013/08/14/nsa-dea-irs-lie-about-fact-that-americans-are-routinely-spied-on-by-our-government-time-for-a-special-prosecutor-2/

  47. Anon E. Moose says:

    Juice;

    Sorry your draft conflicts. If it was anyone else I’d give you much grief. If not this time, another.

  48. Libtard in the City says:

    You are over analyzing Nom. I think he is simply your common run-of-the-mill Daily Koos reader. No different than your common run-of-the-mill drudge report regurgitator. There’s a guy I work with who is the same way. He spends most of his free time reading far left material. I know you are pretty conservative, but at least you are not a political missionary like the common sheeple you run into every day.

  49. Anon E. Moose says:

    Nom [43];

    Step in it? Come on now. You should know better. He could roll around in it, and his court scribes would sing nothing but praises for his new cologne.

  50. joyce says:

    47
    “First they came for the terrorists and the foreigners, and no one did anything. Then they came for the drug dealers. Then the tax cheats. Then the journalists. And that’s just what we know about. How much worse does it have to get before we say enough is enough?”

  51. Dan in debt says:

    Good to see the site picking up activity again although not sure what to make of Grim’s new optimism compared to the years I used to post here.

    Grim, have you checked out short sale 52 Ponds in Wayne. Realtors prices it at $299k to get bids on a short sale but what will a bank likely accept?

  52. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    when they come for the guns, Joyce and we are just about there

  53. Anyone who affiliates with any political party or movement in Amerika is a fool.

  54. Fast Eddie says:

    Gator [28],

    Moose is calling for a GTG in a few weeks. Moose, I’ll email you. Of course, I usually show when someone let’s me know when a meeting occurs. :)

  55. Libtard in the City says:

    Gator…I already put it on our calendar, but I don’t think your asthma would like the local chosen. It’s in a cigar bar.

  56. Bystander says:

    Dice is a joke. I get 12 emails a day about “urgent jobs”. All recruiters have Indian names and jobs that pay nothing in Smithfield, RI or somewhere else. The best was one of kept telling me about a job at NYAK. I thought he meant Nyack Ny but he could not pronounce NYC.

  57. Fast Eddie says:

    Bystander,

    I hear that! I usually tell them to send me the job description and I’ll take a look.

  58. Anon E. Moose says:

    GTG? Did someone mention a GTG? ;-)

    GTG Alert – Repeating – NJRER GTG now scheduled for Thu 8/29 from 6:30 PM ’til whenever; venue — Montecristo Lounge at J&R Cigars, 301 Route 10 East • Whippany, NJ 07981 (973) 887-0800 (http://www.jrwhippany.com/index.cfm?page=lounge).

  59. chicagofinance says:

    I am not joking….I am having a difficult time maintaining calm at my desk….please hurricane or tropical storm that week!!!

    Anon E. Moose says:
    August 15, 2013 at 11:41 am
    GTG Alert – Repeating – NJRER GTG now scheduled for Thu 8/29 from 6:30 PM ’til whenever; venue — Montecristo Lounge at J&R Cigars, 301 Route 10 East • Whippany, NJ 07981 (973) 887-0800 (http://www.jrwhippany.com/index.cfm?page=lounge).

  60. Anon E. Moose says:

    ChiFi [60];

    Why do you hate Big Bird? ;-)

  61. Brian says:

    Don’t you guys get wierd looks when you go to a bar/restaurant and carry on about politics/economic/religion etc. at these GTGs?

    I haven’t been at the bar scene much lately but I remember that being taboo…

  62. grim says:

    Good thing I decided not to fly down to Puerto Rico on Sunday. Clearly, Erin had gotten word of my vacation plans, but not the subsequent cancellation.

    TAKE THAT!

  63. grim says:

    Don’t you guys get wierd looks when you go to a bar/restaurant and carry on about politics/economic/religion etc. at these GTGs?

    Yeah, but more so because of the transvestites, not necessarily the political discourse.

  64. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Brian since i have never been to one in 6 years of being on this site i could not tell you, but since it is in a cigar bar I guess we would not be too much out of place.

  65. Anon E. Moose says:

    Brian [62];

    I’ve been to one public & one house GTG. We’re not exactly raucous, mostly talking amongst ourselves. I have no recollection of other patrons injecting themselves into our conversation. Maybe I’m dense, but I stood at the bar next to Nom and Lib for damn near 10 minutes before hearing any hint that they might be the guys I was there to meet (though Lib’s attire should have at least given me a clue). The establishment just wants to keep our glasses full, and don’t much care what we talk about.

  66. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

  67. Libtard in the City says:

    “Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.” Brilliant!

  68. Libtard in the City says:

    And how about that US soccer team. Ranked above Mexico and back into the top 20. Where’s Michael to say, “I told you so.”

    BTW, the ultimate GTG would have Joyce, JJ, Clot, Grim, Chifi, Nom, both Anon’s and biluva in attendance. Pain, Gary and Gator could come too. Add Hughesrep for any HVAC conversation that might spring up.

  69. grim says:

    dont forget sas

  70. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    and what have a liberal vs non liberal beer pong tournament? Drinks are double if your own team does not agree with a point you make after a drink.

  71. chicagofinance says:

    Is that a quote from slick willie’s deposition?

    Scrapple n’Ricin says:
    August 15, 2013 at 12:45 pm
    Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

  72. chicagofinance says:

    I still remember meeting clot…..he seem to be a calm preppy intellectual with some dark secret……I suspected he was heavy into herion, or at least speedballs…..

  73. Fast Eddie says:

    You guys want me at a GTG again just so you can sit me in the corner with crayons and a coloring book!

  74. grim says:

    clot – hope you show up – ive got a business prop for you that has nothing to do with real estate, and everything to do with a swimming pool full of whiskey.

  75. Libtard in the City says:

    And Shoreguy too. He really just vanished. I hope he didn’t croak.

  76. grim (71)-

    Methinks sas is in Egypt, fighting for both sides.

  77. chi (74)-

    Don’t knock speedballs until you’ve tried one.

  78. grim (76)-

    Still working on that Pappy.

  79. The only dark secret I have is that I used to own a RE company. And it’s not a secret.

  80. Bystander says:

    61 Moose,

    Still one of my favorite post-election images:

    http://imgace.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/whos-unemployed-now-bitch.jpg

  81. Anon E. Moose says:

    Somehow, I think Mitt will end up OK.

  82. Michael says:

    54-scrapple- well said!! Anyone who thinks in absolutes, is dangerous! Not all conservative points are right, not all liberal pts are right. Make it into a competition, and you have a race towards the bottom. The elite who don’t give a crap about either party, love to employ a strategy of divide and conquer. What do you think we did in Iraq, Egypt, or any other country we stick our nose in. Instill propaganda, and watch them fight. Easy as one, two, three.

  83. Michael says:

    Chifinance- so it’s not obnoxious how govt employees have to have their salaries printed in the newspapers or online? Typical of your type!!

    “huh? I work in personal finance. The most highly obnoxious thing I can fathom is posting salary. Even worse, it was not even her own….”

  84. Juice Box says:

    re: Full time Jobs. It is no coincidence. It is coming straight from the boards of directors of all of these companies, no full time hires, outsource outsource oursource.

    http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/01/news/economy/temp-jobs/index.html

    We are turning Japanese folks.

  85. Michael says:

    Thank you for motivating me to stand up for my beliefs. I do feel bullied at times but it motivates me to prove to these guys that they don’t know it all and are not always right. They are smart but that’s also their weakness. They think one way and are not able to have an open mind. Never mind the lack of compassion part.

    “yes, but that was mostly thanks to Michael. i do hope that he sticks around. fresh air. many here truly enjoy fellating each other and run out of town whoever gets on the way.
    remember, for example, a while ago a nice lady who had recently moved into town. she was cool an apolitical for the most part. Chifi in his usual retarded manner attacked her because she posted her husbands salary. she was gone after that.”

  86. Libtard in the City says:

    Michael. Your argument is completely flawed. One, the public employee is not personally volunteering that information. Two, if it wasn’t listed, their unions would probably ask for 10% non-merit based annual increases instead of their standard 5%.

    In exchange for the benefits alone that most suburban public workers receive, I would gladly reveal my current salary. Sadly, it’s not quite as high as the average police or fireman in my neck of the woods. And I manage a hell of a lot more people than any of them do. And the people I manage all have college degrees. Additionally, my workers have no job security, some don’t get overtime and all don’t get paid out on their sick time if they don’t use it. Surprisingly, about half of our accrued sick hours don’t even get used. Just like on the force. Not.

  87. Michael says:

    Bearsfan- commenting from a couple of days ago, in which you said that you are overpaid if someone will do it for less. You stated it was a law of economics.

    Well, when you have an unemployment rate in which there are not enough jobs to go around. The bosses always win. There will always someone dragging down the wage because they are “happy to just have a job”. True wage value can only be true, if everyone has a job. Then the boss does not have a complete advantage over the worker who has to compete with desperation. Yes, that’s what it is when someone doesn’t have a job. They will lowball themselves, just so they can have a job. Why does the business always have to make a killer profit? Instead of making 400 million, why can’t they give their workers a piece of the pie, and instead make 100 million. Nah, total greed, it’s the worker who is used as the tool to increase profit. What a joke.

  88. Michael says:

    Libtard- my argument was based on complete facts based on his statement. Don’t turn it around into some anti-union argument.

  89. Anon E. Moose says:

    Michael [85];

    As a group, including the value of benefits, public employees are very well paid, and enjoy unequaled job security from both economic factors and mere incompetence.
    The fact that their union obscures the plain facts to their advantage is almost beside the point. And yes, the ‘shareholders’ (i.e., the voters who elect the directors) have a right to know what they are paid.

  90. clotluva says:

    Joyce, from yesterday…

    Not trying to nitpick, but I never said it was okay to break the law, and in response to my comments regarding trends for more transparency and meritocracy, you point to a 15 year old example of collusion within the banking industry. But I will add a caveat that my perspective doesn’t apply to those who control our monetary/banking policies…we’re hosed in that arena, and Clot’s logic applies: always think of the worst possible scenario, and that is what will happen.

    80.joyce says:

    August 14, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    clotluva,

    Citicorp, a commercial bank holding company, merged with the insurance company Travelers Group in 1998 to form the conglomerate Citigroup, a corporation combining banking, securities and insurance services under a house of brands that included Citibank, Smith Barney, Primerica, and Travelers. This merger took place a year before it was legal to do so (in violation of the Glass–Steagall Act and the Bank Holding Company Act of 1956). Alan Greenspan gave them the go ahead.

    Is this not an example of a group of people acting in their own self interest as well as a conspiracy?

    “An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.”

  91. Michael says:

    91-anon the moose- govt employees overpaid? How about ceo’s? How the hell can you justify 20 million a year? Some of these finance fund managers making 100 million to 200 million a year. That’s just bonkers. Can’t be justified. How about when a CEO crashes the company and gets a 20million dollar going away present. But you are right the govt worker(not cops) topping out at 50,000 is the problem. Hell even the president only makes 450,000 a year (I know there are side benefits, just making a pt). The majority of govt employees are not overpaid. Just the ones rigging the system.

  92. Comrade Nom Deplume, drinking at the beach and posting right now says:

    [50] moose

    I have a unique perspective on that event:

    A. I am from Cambridge
    B. My father was a cop
    C. I am admitted in Mass
    D. I had already been following the story

    So when The One pronounced the Sgt’s handling of the Hon. Lewis Gates to be “stupid”, I already knew he knew not of which he spoke. He was wrong on both the facts AND the law.

    BTW, it is no mean feat for a lawyer to be wrong on both the facts and the law. It takes work or a high degree of stupidity. I’ll leave it to history to decide which. But it was right there that I knew he was just another Harvard Law grad who couldn’t litigate his way out of a wet paper bag.

  93. Comrade Nom Deplume, drinking at the beach and posting right now says:

    [77] libtard

    That’s a possibility. I met Shoreguy once in Kenilworth. He refused to tell me what he did for a living. I said “Oh, if you tell me, you have to kill me, right?” He said “I wouldn’t kill you but someone else probably would.”

  94. Michael says:

    You know what, get rid of all govt employees and watch the sh-t show come to life. The unemployment rate will skyrocket because the private sector , in their never ending search for profits, will not replace all these lost govt jobs. The GDP will drop and there will not be enough customers for these businesses, which will further fuel the sh-t show race to the bottom. Now with less revenue the govt will have to cut social nets, furthering the drive to the bottom. Be careful what you ask for, it might not really be what you want.

  95. Comrade Nom Deplume, drinking at the beach and posting right now says:

    [93] michael

    Executive compensation, including golden parachutes, are heavily influenced by our current Internal Revenue Code. You see, some eggheads thought it would be a good, democratic, and egalitarian idea to impose high taxes and limit deductions on straight comp and force execs to take a stake. So companies gave options and the like. Now the execs game the results to pump up stock, which pumps up comp. As for golden parachutes, they are limited but, ATEOTD, those limits are pretty high.

    You can take away all of this. The end result will be that C-suite spots will go vacant unless you promise to move HQ to Geneva or Dubai.

  96. Super story it is really. I have been waiting for this information.

  97. Comrade Nom Deplume, drinking at the beach and posting right now says:

    [96] michael

    They would like it just fine in ChesCo. Most of the towns around us don’t have police departments. They rely on the state police and their CCW permits. And crime isn’t a big problem in much of ChesCo except in places like Coatesville, and they have police.

    NJ? yeah, I agree. Hold onto your butts.

  98. Comrade Nom Deplume, drinking at the beach and posting right now says:

    Moose, it is an incredible longshot, especially since I am scheduled to close the following day, but I will try to make it. No promises though.

  99. Michael says:

    97- you danced around the bottom line, how can you justify someone making in one year, what someone making a 100,000 will never make in a lifetime. Not even come close!!! Keep making excuses for these crooks. Yes, corporations and big business are crooks. It wasn’t always like this. In the 50’s and 60’s, they cared about their community and workers. The new breed greed that began in the 70’s, disgust me!!

  100. Michael says:

    101- I meant 100,000 a year as the comparison pt.

    100,000 a year, not paying a penny towards tax, and not spending a dollar. After 40 years, you will get 4 million. What a joke. But 100,000 is so overpaid, says the CEO making 20 million in one year.

  101. Anon E. Moose says:

    Nom [c-note];

    I like long shots. Hope to see you there.

  102. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Michael it was a miracle anyone ever survived before the new deal. If it wasn’t for glorious FDR millions would have starved and we would be speaking German. The sainted kennedy had he not signed the noble Executive Order 10988, thousands of us would not know the pleasure of engaging our betters the union public employee.

    Government is a force but it is not a force for good. Wait until healthcare is like the DMV. social security administration and the veterans agency. I think a good lot of the government worshipers will find religion.

  103. Anon E. Moose says:

    Michael [101];

    I don’t need to justify what I earn to anyone expect the person paying me. Neither do the CEOs (Likewise, the public employees do as well). Such is the beauty of a free and capitalist society. I understand America used to be one of those.

  104. Libtard in the City says:

    There are what, maybe 5 executives collecting those outsized salaried at every large cap corporation. Throw in some middle level low 6-figure guys and the list is complete. Nearly every fireperson on the force in Montclair is making 6 figures. And there are a lot more firemen than executives out there. And the firemen don’t have MBAs. Shit, they don’t even have degrees. Your arguments are flawed. I think you are bipolar.

  105. Libtard in the City says:

    And I agree there are issues with the income gap. But you don’t solve it by making the remaining middle class pay high school dropouts like paupers undeservedly.

  106. Michael says:

    106-You live in northern jersey and you think 100,000 a year is a lot of money. Thats comical. How the hell do you think manhattan, short hills, alpine, tenafly, etc (I could go on and on) support these insane real estate prices? You think a few people are only making big money? Avg house is 7.5 million in Alpine. How the hell do you think these people afford 50,000- 100,000 a year in property taxes? Town after town has this in northern jersey. My neighbor across the street, through the woods pays 45,000. My other neighbor pays 30,000. How the hell do you think they afford this? You guys need to open your eyes and realize the type of money these people are making.

  107. Michael says:

    Fast Eddie needs to realize the taxes are high because you live in prime real estate competing with wealthy people who don’t mind paying for every service in the book. They are rich!!!! You want to live in a low tax area, they are all over the country. Exactly the kind of places nobody wants to live because you make no money. You will pay for 100,000 dollar house, burn your own garbage, and have missing teeth, because there are no dentists that want to live here. Why does the dentist not want to live here? Because you can’t make any money!

  108. Michael says:

    And don’t even get me started on the type of education you will receive in these low tax areas. You get what you pay for!! Unfortunately, nj has become a state of haves and have nots. Same thing with NYC.

  109. Michael says:

    If govt wasn’t big businesses’ bitch, they would say to these businesses that you can’t sell your goods in our state unless you provide jobs for the citizens of the u.s. or he’ll even the state citizens. Instead, govt officials offer them no tax incentives. They drive a hard deal. What a bunch of crap.

  110. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Michael no offense but I could care less what they are making. If someone sees the value in paying them that much, ie shareholders, then let them. I aspire to be them some day. Whether I get there or not is on me not good fortune.

    A friend of mine started her own business which supports pharma, she makes really good scratch, enough to pay those high taxes and drive an expensive car. Both of which she does. She also works 18 hour days, is stressed to the max, and has to deal with ungrateful employees who think she does not earn it while she assumes all the risk for their livelyhood.

    Lesson for you, just because someone is doing well does not mean they stole it. So drop the class envy and fairness BS, OK.

  111. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    As for the rest of your clap trap, get a clue how economics and the world works.

  112. Anon E. Moose says:

    And another thing [101];

    The new breed greed that began in the 70′s, disgust me!!

    Greed began with Eve and the apple, a hell of a lot farther back than the 70’s.

  113. Juice Box says:

    RE # 101 – Michael you are generalizing way to much, more meat please. You would not even make the freshmen debate team.

    How about an argument like this on CEO Comp.

    Performance reviews to determine bonuses need to be an integral part of the compensation exercise and unfortunately it is not. The compensation committees write up the comp way before the review, and in fact at a few places I have worked the bonus numbers are written down way before the review. You can blame the need for quarterly results and the M.B.As and their machinations.

    More on the advent of the history outsize exec bonuses in the last 30 years, it is a debate these days of not when but who.

    http://observer.com/2013/08/the-godfather-of-ceo-megapay-mckinsey-consultant-arch-patton-didnt-invent-wealth-inequality/

  114. chicagofinance says:

    #1 you don’t know me
    #2 smart is weakness?
    #3 lack of compassion? do you know what I do for a living and why I do it?
    #4 also, don’t lecture us about what you THINK might be going on the NJ economy. I work with people, see their tax returns, and know who has money and why……..

    Michael says:
    August 15, 2013 at 2:50 pm
    it motivates me to prove to these guys that they don’t know it all and are not always right. They are smart but that’s also their weakness. They think one way and are not able to have an open mind. Never mind the lack of compassion part.

  115. Dan in debt says:

    Michael 108

    From Wikiland…..

    Alpine is located at WikiMiniAtlas
    40°58′05″N 73°55′02″W / 40.968149°N 73.91715°W / 40.968149; -73.91715 (40.968149,-73.91715). According to the United States Census Bureau, the borough had a total area of 9.232 square miles (23.910 km2), of which, 6.411 square miles (16.604 km2) of it is land and 2.821 square miles (7.307 km2) of it (30.56%) is water.[2][1]

    Demographics[edit source | edit]Historical populations
    Census Pop. %±
    1900 268 —
    1910 377 40.7%
    1920 350 −7.2%
    1930 521 48.9%
    1940 626 20.2%
    1950 644 2.9%
    1960 921 43.0%
    1970 1,344 45.9%
    1980 1,549 15.3%
    1990 1,716 10.8%
    2000 2,183 27.2%
    2010 1,849 −15.3%
    Est. 2012 1,933 [10] 4.5%
    Population sources: 1910-1920[25]
    1910[26] 1910-1930[27]
    1900-1990[28][29] 2000[30][31] 2010[7][8][9]

    2010 Census[edit source | edit]At the 2010 United States Census, there were 1,849 people, 611 households, and 529.1 families residing in the borough

    That’s a lot of obsession about 611 households and 529 families, half of which may not be making anywhere near the zillions you think they are. They gotta median too, right?

  116. grim says:

    My dad was out in Alpine a couple weeks back hanging out with a fancy fashion designer (ladies would know the name, his name is hanging all over my wife’s closet) – he’s building a big new house, he’s easily spent 20 million. Saw some pictures, it’s pretty crazy.

  117. Dan in debt says:

    Besides, if CC Sabathia or Johnny Damon want to overpay for a house in Alpine for a couple of years, by all means go right ahead and they can sell to the next rap star or whoever is up and coming.

    As for Short Hills, I was on the MSHVFAS squad for a couple of years a while back. Plenty of nice houses up there for sure but plenty of slightly better than average ones too. My point is the town isn’t just a stop for CEO’s making 5 mill plus but plenty of households with joint incomes of $250-300k too.

  118. grim says:

    Speaking of, he was also up at a fancy new townhouse development near/around Saddle River. Something like 60 or 70 townhouses, starting at $1.25m. They are almost entirely sold out, and they’ve sold out, very, very quickly.

    60-70 units *starting* at more than one and a quarter million? Sold that fast?

    Clearly someone has money, and it ain’t me.

  119. AG says:

    Don’t forget to pay your property and sales taxes. 22k per year for a student in Newark who will grow up to be a carjacker.

    Pass the castle law now! 16 states have passed it including Pennsylvania. Texas too.

    I will proudly vote for Mr. Lonegan. He is a mans man.

  120. AG says:

    121.

    Disclaimer:

    I voted for Lonegan over the fat man in 2009. That being said. The fat man looks like Jesus Christ compared to that criminal Corzine.

  121. AG says:

    32,

    Sima,

    Re: Contract work.

    Its the wave of the future. At least you are getting a head start. All that you describe is true. Now the public takers wonder why they are threatened. I ask them to come take a taste of the real world. That’s all I ask.

    “You don’t like the school budget and your taxes? Move”

    This is a quote from a board of ed meeting 2 years ago.

  122. Fabius Maximus says:

    #118 grim

    You can’t have the Alpine discussion without the great Chris Rock quote.

    I will give you an example of how race affects my life. I live in a place called Alpine, New Jersey. Live in Alpine, New Jersey, right? My house costs millions of dollars. [some whistles and cheers from the audience] Don’t hate the player, hate the game. In my neighborhood, there are four black people. Hundreds of houses, four black people. Who are these black people? Well, there’s me, Mary J. Blige, Jay-Z and Eddie Murphy. Only black people in the whole neighborhood. So let’s break it down, let’s break it down: me, I’m a decent comedian. I’m a’ight. [applause] Mary J. Blige, one of the greatest R&B singers to ever walk the Earth. Jay-Z, one of the greatest rappers to ever live. Eddie Murphy, one of the funniest actors to ever, ever do it. Do you know what the white man who lives next door to me does for a living? He’s a fcuking dentist! He ain’t the best dentist in the world…he ain’t going to the dental hall of fame…he don’t get plaques for getting rid of plaque. He’s just a yank-your-tooth-out dentist. See, the black man gotta fly to get to somethin’ the white man can walk to

  123. pain, this guy is a troll and is also some milquetoast’s bitch.

  124. AG says:

    It was getting to nice nice in here. Now back to the thrashing.

    Re: GTG

    Ill come. Ill be the racist guy in the corner.

  125. Fabius Maximus says:

    grim

    Lots of new development on the NY NJ border. Phase 2 is almost complete and will go quick. http://www.cherrywoodrivervale.com/index.html

    Funny part is the other side of Poplar St took what looks like a Tornado hit in Sandy. Lots of trees snapped like match sticks about 20ft in the air.

  126. AG says:

    Fabius.

    That Dentist does something useful. Telling jokes to a dumbed downed populace shouldn’t make you rich in any sophisticated society. We are Rome. Screw your R&B and rap music. Bring on the gladiators.

  127. AG, just wait until AQ sets one off in Newark or Paterson. The wailing will be ferocious.

  128. Roll those green shoots into a spliff, and smoke it, mf’er.

    “Remember when housing was the primary aspirational asset for a still existent US middle class, to be purchased with some equity down by your average 30 year-old hoping to start a family in his or her brand new home, and, as the name implies, aspire to reach the American dream? Those days are long gone. Back in those days the interest rate on the 10 Year bond mattered as it determined the prevailing marginal affordability of leveraged real estate. That is no longer the case, at least not for about 90% of Americans, because as Goldman shows, while before the great crisis only 20% of home purchases were “all cash”, since then the number has soared threefold, and currently the estimated percentage of cash transactions (by count and amount) has hit a record 60%. In other words, less than half of all home purchases are debt-funded, and thus less than half of all home purchases are actually representative of what middle-class America is doing.”

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-15/stunning-60-all-home-purchases-are-cash-only-200-increase-five-years

  129. Brian says:

    Senate Democrats Move to Reverse Supreme Court’s Heller decision

    http://gunowners.org/alert08142013.htm

    Pain…..they’re hellbent on coming for your guns.

  130. Michael says:

    Pain and chifinance- You guys probably believe and support the lie ( I mean theory) of trickle down economics. It’s really seems to be working.

    And my pt of jersey having so much money was totally missed. Of course pain doesn’t care, he aspires to be one. That’s why they get away with it, poor fools like you who think they will one day get there. Too bad you have a 90% chance of not getting there. And of course those people deserve it, they work 18 hr days and are stressed. But the guy working 3 jobs, who can’t even afford a nice meal for their kids is lazy and not stressed. They have it easy, collecting from the govt. So go join them in Paterson and Newark. It’s easy to beat up and knock down the guy at the bottom. It’s like you are a bully and picking on the smallest kid in the class. You are the reason I pay so much in taxes. You don’t work and sit on welfare. Did you ever realize if there were enough jobs being provided by the guys you are defending, we wouldn’t need these social nets provided by the govt. Who the hell wants to live on welfare? See everyone running to get on the welfare line. It’s the place to be. So awesome!!

    The point of bringing up how much money Jersey has was supposed to help you realize why we pay our govt employees more than other parts of the country and why we have such high property taxes. What are we supposed to top out govt positions in which a college professional is needed at 60,000 so they have to live in Paterson ( no offense to Paterson)? You guys don’t make sense.

  131. Michael says:

    And I mean 60,000 with a single family household. Not everyone has the luxury of two breadwinners in a household. Once again, not enough jobs to go around.

  132. chicagofinance says:

    These two quotes are self-explanatory……

    Michael says:
    “Did you ever realize if there were enough jobs being provided by the guys you are defending, we wouldn’t need these social nets provided by the govt.”

    “What are we supposed to top out govt positions in which a college professional is needed at 60,000 so they have to live in Paterson ( no offense to Paterson)? You guys don’t make sense.”

  133. chicagofinance says:

    I saw this set when it came out….it was funny…the problem is that the argument is specious…..it’s simple, the dentist either married someone rich, came from a rich family or inherited wealth….the four black entertainers are all first generation wealthy….it is as simple as that….how do I know? guess…..

    Fabius Maximus says:

    August 15, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    #118 grim

    You can’t have the Alpine discussion without the great Chris Rock quote.

    I will give you an example of how race affects my life. I live in a place called Alpine, New Jersey. Live in Alpine, New Jersey, right? My house costs millions of dollars. [some whistles and cheers from the audience] Don’t hate the player, hate the game. In my neighborhood, there are four black people. Hundreds of houses, four black people. Who are these black people? Well, there’s me, Mary J. Blige, Jay-Z and Eddie Murphy. Only black people in the whole neighborhood. So let’s break it down, let’s break it down: me, I’m a decent comedian. I’m a’ight. [applause] Mary J. Blige, one of the greatest R&B singers to ever walk the Earth. Jay-Z, one of the greatest rappers to ever live. Eddie Murphy, one of the funniest actors to ever, ever do it. Do you know what the white man who lives next door to me does for a living? He’s a fcuking dentist! He ain’t the best dentist in the world…he ain’t going to the dental hall of fame…he don’t get plaques for getting rid of plaque. He’s just a yank-your-tooth-out dentist. See, the black man gotta fly to get to somethin’ the white man can walk to

  134. Brian says:

    To some people…especially in my neighborhood, that’s a decent living.

    That is probably why a lot of people in my neighborhood are especially offended that more money is sent to Abbott district schools than suburban districts. Why are city kids any more deserving than suburban kids?

    “What are we supposed to top out govt positions in which a college professional is needed at 60,000 so they have to live in Paterson ( no offense to Paterson)? You guys don’t make sense.”

  135. chicagofinance says:

    The End Is Nigh (Frozen Custard Edition):

    Ice cream truck drivers nearly come to blows in frozen treat tiff

    Two ice cream truck drivers were arrested after a Midtown turf war turned ugly, cops said.

    Erik Morel, 23, was serving treats out of his Mister Softee truck at 50th Street and 6th Avenue last night at around 7 p.m. when a Yogo truck pulled up, cops said.

    An irate Morel then went over to his competitor’s truck and and started arguing with Sefer Tunca, 25, before stealing his ID from around his neck and ripping down the Yogo man’s vendor license.

    Police arrived on scene before things got violent and began questioning both men. The Mister Softee man apparently told cops that Tunca pulled a knife on him, cops said.

    That’s when Tunca came over and punched him in the face in front of police, authorities said.

    Cops said no weapon was recovered.

    Both men were arrested, with Tunca being charged with assault and Morel being charged with auto stripping, criminal mischief and petit larceny, cops said.

  136. Michael says:

    119-Dan in debt- I’m not obssessed with alpine. That is just one town. I’m talking about the amount of towns with insane money. As for short hills, no kidding they don’t all make 5 million a year. You are going to sit here and tell me that’s a middle class town? How about summit, mendham, or Essex fells? Nice middle class towns right? How about Blairstown? It’s insane how much money is in the northern part of this state. I’m not jealous. I’m just stating why prices are so high, why taxes are so high, and why govt employees are paid more than the avg around these parts.

  137. Brian says:

    It’s a hard life yo.

    Michael says:
    August 15, 2013 at 6:39 pm
    And I mean 60,000 with a single family household. Not everyone has the luxury of two breadwinners in a household. Once again, not enough jobs to go around.

  138. Michael says:

    135- exactly, nj is filled with tons of old money. Northeast in general. It’s why it is so hard to collect taxes. Chi finance, you should know. It’s nice to pay 15% on money earned from dividends. People like good ol Romney. Love the argument too that it’s not even fair to tax that income at 15% because it is being taxed twice. That’s comical. Country has the most billionaires (god knows why someone would need that much money, never mind still wanting more) and millionaires, yet has one of the highest or the highest poverty rate in the developed world. Wonder why???

  139. Fabius Maximus says:

    #128 AG

    So where are you drawing that line. Is it a case that anyone who sells their talent doesn’t deserve to get paid, or just don’t like the skin tone.

  140. Michael says:

    141-Fabius Maximus- Thanks for posting that, don’t want people to think I’m talking out of my ass, which it seems I’m being accused of. These guys are in denial.

  141. Juice Box says:

    Moose whether I conflict or not i was making a point about Michael’s broad strokes which need allot more meat to really stick with this crowd. It is growing tiresome as if some talking points bot descended from the Huffington Post to pester us.

  142. Brian says:

    Don’t be hatin’ on rich people Michael. And don’t be ashamed of being Rich. That kind of thinking just poisons your mind.

  143. grim says:

    Chris Rock was being facetious, he does not live next door to a Dentist.

    His neighbors are:

    An Orthopedic Surgeon (correction, he may not be practicing, he might actually be the CEO of a large hospital/healthcare firm)
    Owner of a commercial construction firm specializing in upscale projects
    Cardiologist at Cornell
    Radiologist that owns a few practices
    PHD Mathemetician that works for a Wall Street Investment Bank

    Yes, I looked them all up

  144. Michael says:

    I’ll leave you guys alone. I’m not hating on rich people and I’m definitely not embarrassed about being wealthy. I would be embarrassed if I was complaining about having to pay taxes for the good of society, when I can definitely afford it. There’s too many people who are wealthy and cry about having to pay taxes. They avoid it at all costs based on principle (greed) when they could and should pay it. That’s my problem. If they are making money and don’t pay their share, guess who has to make up for it? Poor middle class working men, who just gets the taxes automatically deducted from their weekly check. Sorry, I have a conscience and can’t agree with that.

    Also, how long will it take to count to 1 billion? How many lifetimes? That’s sickening to accumulate that type of money. When you accumulate that much money, you don’t really need it, you are just taking from the people that really do. A person who makes 100,000 spends every dollar. It is all put back into the economy in a meaningful way. Buying a 50 million dollar painting to hang in your house does nothing for the economy besides switch money from one wealthy household to another. It doesn’t drive the economy, it holds it back. Same thing with owning four 50 million dollar houses. Does nothing for the economy. Just a safe place to park all that money.

  145. grim says:

    I’ll leave out my comments about the russian mob interests that might also live in that general area.

  146. Michael says:

    147-Grim- lol that’s great!!!!!

  147. Juice Box says:

    Anyone going to Matchbox 20 and the Goo Goo Dolls? I’ll be at the VIP bar..

  148. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Michael no offense dude I come from the bottom. My greatest motivator is to make sure I or my kids never go back there. I’m not even going to enlighten you because your not worth my time.

  149. Michael says:

    149- grim- Forgot to mention that!!! Does anyone realize how much illegal money is in these wealthy towns. Of course they are avoiding taxes at all cost. “Behind every great fortune is a crime”. These people are not who you think they are. Anyone accumulating that kind of wealth most likely does not have a strong conscious and lacks compassion. Simpsons is based on society. Why is Mr. Burns portrayed as a greedy mean old man?? With his personal slave to cater to his every need.

  150. grim says:

    152 – he makes his money in russian oil, really, the mob thing was a joke.

  151. Michael says:

    Pain- I applaud you for your work ethic. You are the type of person that makes a society great. Just open your mind a little before defending the “kings and nobles”. You are no different than a serf or peasant defending the royal families while they send your kids to war for their personal gain. 1700’s and 1800’s were filled with revolutions. A time when the common man became too smart to be controlled by a monarchy. So they had some revolutions. Replaced the word kings with presidents and made you think you voted this individual in. It’s rather brilliant. ESP, only having an 8 year max term, so when people flip out, you put a new person in and they forget all about it, even though nothing has changed.

  152. Michael says:

    152- Grim, you would be surprised. Your joke is rather true. That’s the funny part.

  153. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Grim fantastic!

    Juice if I had to be a at a matchbox 20 / goo goo dolls show I would have never made it to the bar I would have been fall down drunk before the doors opened so I didn’t remember being there.

  154. grim says:

    Yeah his joke isnt so funny when you replace dentist with with the whole PHD hedge fund mathematician thing.

  155. Ragnar says:

    So much for Michael’s brief alleged fling with markets and self responsibility. Back to “why don’t richer people just share their money with poorer people?” Who needs that much? I’m ready to hear about how Michael is also giving away 90% of his wealth to the poor in India and Zimbabwe who think the same thing about him.
    The world advances by wealth creation, in large and small efforts. Wealth redistribution, voluntarily done, is economically neutral. Forced redistribution, administered by and for leeches, is a good way to destroy human progress.

  156. Libtard getting ready for bed says:

    Grim,

    Big trouble for me at Planet Honda, but my wheels are squeaking. I’ll tell you ’bout it over a Clinton tickler in a couple weeks. Or read the forums.

  157. Brian says:

    154 –

    Barf

  158. Michael says:

    159- I tried but it’s hard to defend the growing income disparity gap. I would be fine to give away 90% of my wealth if I was worth 10 or 20 billion. Even with 10% left my kids, kids, kids, would never even come close to spending it. Even with a safe 3 % return on my investments, that 1 or 2 billion will last generations.

    Mexico, for example, seems to be working out with Carlos Slim passing on some of his insane wealth accumulation to the rest of the people. They are doing great ever since he became wealthy. It’s really helping them out. Guy disgusts me. Same thing with India’s, China’s, and Russia’s billionaires. Doing great for the majority of their people. Sending their money into London and NYC. Helping their people out big time!

  159. Michael says:

    What I love even more is the wealthy willing to give up their citizenship in order to avoid taxes. One of the biggest scumbag moves of all time. Spitting in the face of the people who helped get you there by either working for you or buying your bs.

  160. Anon E. Moose says:

    Michael [152];

    “Behind every great fortune is a crime”.

    Says all one need know about your worldview. You’re in the wrong country, friend. You’d be much happier in Castro’s Cuba. Free healthcare, nice weather too.

    Simpsons is based on society. Why is Mr. Burns portrayed as a greedy mean old man?? With his personal slave to cater to his every need.

    You’re honestly trying to make a serious sociological argument by citing the Simpsons?

  161. Michael says:

    What’s wrong with Simpsons? Is it not poking fun at American society? Springfield, the most common town name in the u.s., was picked because it sounds funny?

    Yes, let me go to Cuba, so I can deal with the u.s. embargo and deal with a worst system than the u.s. Ever read animal farm? Sorry, but no thanks. There has never been and never will be a true communist system. That’s why I love listening to ignorant people toss around communism like it has actually ever existed. Mao, did redistribute the land from the rich to the poor when he took power, but we see how that worked out. Different name, same ol system, with the few living well at the expense of the many. Animal Farm explains it well.

  162. Michael says:

    I’ll leave you guys alone. I’ll let you feel comfort in thinking the more extreme wealthy people you have in this country, the better it is for our society. I think 500 million is more than enough. But what do I know, I’m not obsessed with greed and power.

    Sad, some of our richest citizens are paying a much lower tax rate than most people, yet people defend them to no end with the false belief that this will lead to more job creation. That’s why their money is offshore doing more for people in other countries. But wait, if we give them a tax holiday, they will bring this money back to the U.S.. What a scam. Lol

  163. Michael says:

    “This is the American Dream, the John and Cindy McCain version.”

  164. William says:

    166-Michael, what was Oprah’s crime?

  165. Anon E. Moose says:

    Michael [165];

    Its not about leaving anyone alone. But this place is at least Div III politics, if not Div. I. Don’t bring your intramural game.

  166. Michael says:

    I’m watching what happens live too. Listen, not everyone that is wealthy has committed a crime. I’m just saying a lot of them have cut corners like tax evasion. Do you think Teresa giudice and her husband would have been busted if they weren’t on television? They would have got away with it like the many other families out there doing the same thing. Come on, the IRS only found out about the false w-2 forms from 2001 now? They would have been home free if they weren’t on television making stupid moves while declaring bankruptcy.

  167. chicagofinance says:

    Michael: I speak a good number of people here, but certainly not the majority. The issue of taxation is not the fundamental problem. It is the way that the tax revenue is allocated. You begin to get complaints when you see that the gatekeepers (politicians of all stripes) are the arch criminals in society. When you realize that government, which is by design an objective need for our country, being run by criminals, then it rises to the level of a criminal enterprise. I think that people here have a problem with effectively being robbed…….if you read it otherwise, I think you misunderstand many posters here…..
    …..and with a due respect, you are embarassingly naive and ill informed….

  168. chicagofinance says:

    The End Is Nigh (Ain’t That America Edition):
    BLOOMINGTON, Ind. — Rocker John Mellencamp’s two teenage sons face battery charges for allegedly punching and kicking a man during a fight that left the victim with serious facial injuries.

    Monroe County prosecutors on Thursday charged 19-year-old Hud Mellencamp of Nashville, Ind., and 18-year-old Speck Mellencamp, of Bloomington, with one count each of battery resulting in serious bodily injury.

    Ty A. Smith, 19, of Bloomington, faces the same charge in the early morning July 29 attack. The Herald-Times reports that Smith is the son of Indiana University baseball coach Tracy Smith and is a walk-on for IU’s football team.

    The Bloomington Police Department said in a statement late Thursday afternoon that investigators were trying to contact the Mellencamp brothers and Smith to make arrangements for them to surrender.

    A probable cause affidavit states that Speck Mellencamp punched 19-year-old Alexander Bucy in the face on the porch of Bucy’s Bloomington home because he thought Bucy had hit him earlier that evening at Bucy’s house party. Hud Mellencamp and Smith joined in, and the trio allegedly “punched, kicked and stomped” Bucy, the document states.

    When Bucy was able to get to his feet, Speck Mellencamp allegedly knocked him backward off the porch onto a sidewalk two to three feet below, where Speck Mellencamp punched Bucy until someone pulled him away. The Mellencamp brothers and Smith then allegedly ran from the scene.

    Bucy suffered facial fractures and received stitches at a local hospital, according to the affidavit. It also says Bucy was referred to a plastic surgeon.

    Speck Mellencamp told officers he had been at a party at Bucy’s home earlier when two girls began fighting over him, and that a white male punched him as he tried to halt the girls’ fight. Mellencamp said his assailant ran into the house.

    He said he “was very upset about being punched” but soon left and went home, where he, his brother and Smith decided to return.

  169. Michael says:

    I can agree with you on that, the govt has become a tool of the rich through lobbyists. It’s hard for me to support the ultra-wealthy. I have no problem with normal wealthy individuals working hard to provide a legacy for their families. I have a problem with the over 500 million club whom hurt our country more than they help. Constantly waste away and change good hearted politicians who come in with great intentions, only to be corrupted and forced into a corner by these individuals. They use these politicians as their golden goose, forcing new legislation to get out of taxes or free money in the form of govt loans or corporate subsidies. I wish I could get free tax credits aka free cash from Uncle Sam.

    I might not be challenging you guys, but I do love the challenge you guys provide for me. If you guys can get me to sway my opinion, that’s great. I really want to support this economic system, but I feel it’s based on one big lie. This is no Adam Smith type free market. It’s a market where winners and losers are picked. It’s not what you know but who you know. Maybe, I’m totally wrong but the evidence seems about right.

    Goodnight!

  170. Michael, which free lunch/Headstart public skool will you be putting your kid in?

    Until you can answer that question, STFU. You are an annoying little gnat.

  171. scribe says:

    Why not a GTG at or near Clot’s store?

  172. Juice Box says:

    MichaelBot please cite facts or is that asking too much? There are few making 500M a year. Those folk number in the dozens? Would confiscation solve unemployment?

  173. AG says:

    142.

    “#128 AG

    So where are you drawing that line. Is it a case that anyone who sells their talent doesn’t deserve to get paid, or just don’t like the skin tone.”

    You call it talent. I consider it a sympathy vote. Try again. If you are going to call me a racist I want to earn it.

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