From Inman:
US single-family homes were costlier to build, priced higher and larger in 2013
The cost to build the average U.S. single-family home hit $246,453 in 2013, reaching its highest mark since 1998, according to a construction cost survey of 3,019 builders by the National Association of Home Builders.
The survey also showed that new-home prices jumped 25 percent to $399,532, the average new home was 300 square feet larger at 2,607 square feet and the size of the average lot shrunk from approximately a half-acre to one-third of an acre from the last time NAHB conducted the survey in 2011.
Though the average cost to build a home in 2013 represented a 34 percent increase from the cost $184,125 in 2011, profits jumped to 9.3 percent from their 2011 all-time low of 6.8 percent.
In 2013, interior finishes accounted for the largest percentage (29.3 percent) of the average cost to build a home in 2013, followed by framing (19.1 percent), exterior finishes (14.4 percent) and plumbing, electrical and heating, ventilation and air conditioning (13.4 percent).
FRisty baby!
From the Record:
Housing recovery expected to gain momentum
New Jersey’s housing recovery is expected to gain momentum this year, with prices and construction on the rise, boosted by an improving economy.
“The strength of the housing market will certainly continue into 2014,” said Jeffrey Otteau, an East Brunswick appraiser who tracks the market statewide.
…
Otteau is predicting that prices in New Jersey will rise about 7 percent as a brightening job picture brings more buyers into the housing market.
That would continue a trend that began last year, when prices began to recover from their deepest plunge in decades. Home values in the New York metropolitan area rose 4.9 percent in the 12 months that ended in October, according to the S&P/Case-Shiller home price index. Prices nationally were up by a much larger 13.6 percent, though that’s at least partly because they fell so much further during the bust.
Lawrence Yun, an economist for the National Association of Realtors, predicts that prices nationwide will rise about 5 percent.
…
Home prices in New Jersey are still far below their peaks of the housing boom, and will not return to those levels until the end of 2018, Otteau predicted.
…
About 110,000 existing homes — single-families, condos and co-ops — are likely to be sold in New Jersey in 2014, the most since 2006, before the housing meltdown, said Patrick O’Keefe, an economist with CohnReznick, which has an office in Roseland. That’s up from about 95,000 in 2013.
Otteau also expects sales volume to continue to rise because of a healthier economy and job market, continued low interest rates and rising prices.
As values increase, buyers get the confidence to buy, believing that they won’t be stuck with a depreciating property. And rising prices also “allow homeowners to be able to trade up and buy another house,” Otteau said.
…
Home construction fell off a cliff, nationwide and in New Jersey, after the financial crisis of 2008. But builders have gotten back to work, especially in multi-family construction, which accounted for well over half of housing starts and building permits in New Jersey in 2013. With fewer households able to qualify for mortgages, demand for rentals is up, and banks are much more willing to lend money for the construction of rentals than properties for sale.
“We’ve seen really strong construction in the multifamily space,” said Mark Palim, an economist with Fannie Mae. “Rents are up 3 to 4 percent a year. There’s a lot of demand for rentals at the moment. You’re seeing a shift toward a new urbanism.”
Single-family construction is likely to pick up this year as well, especially in the second half of the year, said Stephanie Karol, an economist with IHS Global Insight. As the supply of housing expands, she predicted, price increases will cool off.
…
New Jersey foreclosure activity is likely to be on the upswing in 2014, as lenders continue to chip away at a backlog of distressed properties that built up in the state while the mortgage industry faced questions about foreclosure abuses. Residential foreclosure filings in the state totaled 34,347 in fiscal 2013, up from 12,341 the previous fiscal year, according to the state Judiciary.
That means more families will face the pain of losing a home. But clearing out the foreclosure overhang is a necessary step in the housing recovery. O’Keefe said the state’s high inventory of distressed properties is dampening prices in the Garden State because those properties tend to sell at a steep discount, which pulls down the appraisals of nearby homes.
“Valuations have to go up so that reluctant sellers become convinced that if they put their property up for sale, they’d get offers within reasonable reach of what they’re looking for,” O’Keefe said. “Because of the slow pace we’re working off the inventory of foreclosures, prices have been artificially suppressed.”
Otteau said that while the state still has a lot of foreclosures, the problem mostly affects inner-city areas; suburban areas such as Bergen County will feel relatively little pain from distressed sales. And as home values have risen, the number of New Jersey households who owe more than their homes are worth has fallen by a third since the end of 2012. With equity in their homes, more homeowners will be able to avoid foreclosure, Otteau said.
Otteau said that while the state still has a lot of foreclosures, the problem mostly affects inner-city areas; suburban areas such as Bergen County will feel relatively little pain from distressed sales.
G-man not going to be happy about this comment
From the Star Ledger:
New Jersey home prices up, but a slowdown is expected
The price of a home in New Jersey rose again last month, but the real estate market that has seen a steady recovery over the past two years may be ready to slow down in 2014, according to reports released today.
The price of a single-family home in New Jersey was up 5.6 percent between November 2013 and the prior year, according to CoreLogic, a real estate analytical firm. Nationwide, home prices jumped 11.8 percent during the same period, making 2013 the best year for home-price increases since 2005.
Anand Nallathambi, president and CEO of CoreLogic, however, predicted sale prices may dip in December from November’s figures, marking the first month-to-month decline in 21 consecutive months.
“The outlook for 2014 looks a bit less robust,” said Nallathambi. He cited new mortgage controls that take effect this week as well as rising mortgage rates as the reasons for the slowdown.
Michael Wolf, an economist at Wells Fargo Securities, said “Home-price appreciation in New Jersey has lagged that of the nation, and we expect this trend to continue throughout 2014.”
He pointed to the high rate of foreclosures in New Jersey as well as sluggish jobs figures.
“Wage growth remains modest,” Wolf said, “and the labor market is particularly worrisome in the southern part of the state.”
Wolf said he expects the gap between the national home-price increases and New Jersey’s to narrow.
“Much of the huge surge in home prices has been felt in markets with ample investor demand, which is beginning to wane,” he said. “As this happens, national home-price growth should slow, making New Jersey’s more modest home-price appreciation look a bit better.”
He added that as foreclosed homes come to market, the supply of houses for sale will increase.
The experts at Otteau valuation group and Corelogic seem to have completely opposite predictions for 2014. I think it’s just more proof that “experts” who seem to know what the future holds are mostly full of sh1t.
I guess we’ll just have to wait and see what’s in store.
takes time, but once in a while some ppl post something interesting and/or value and not simply self-aggrandizing bulls spit.
of course, Grim and anon (the good one)’s posts always add value.
FRTR says:
January 7, 2014 at 8:53 pm
The good the bad and the ugly – Some excepts from a long timr Landlord’s experiences:
Fast Eddie, do you get it?
“Otteau said that while the state still has a lot of foreclosures, the problem mostly affects inner-city areas; suburban areas such as Bergen County will feel relatively little pain from distressed sales. And as home values have risen, the number of New Jersey households who owe more than their homes are worth has fallen by a third since the end of 2012. With equity in their homes, more homeowners will be able to avoid foreclosure, Otteau said.”
Listen to the shills, and you’ll be the one caught with your pants down when the tide goes out.
Housing is nothing but a three-card monte game that’s gone on too long. Stick around, and you can be the last sucker.
Total societal collapse on the horizon.
Michael,
Yeah, the foreclosure scenario has been established a long time ago. I get it. What we can’t measure is those underwater but hanging on, which is why there’s no inventory. I said it yesterday: the only alternative is to mail letters and knock on doors of those desirable homes to see if the home owner is willing to sell. If I’m going to drop that kind of coin, I’m not bailing someone out and I’m not paying top dollar for someone’s p1ss hole. I’ve explained it ad nauseum. What part don’t you understand?
Ground zero is UNC athletics….
Spine Snapper says:
January 8, 2014 at 8:28 am
Total societal collapse on the horizon.
[6] anon
” . . . anon (the good one)’s posts always add value.”
So does fertilizer.
I am glad that I actually love my house. Because the entire act of moving and the stress that brings with it just does not seem worthwhile. I’d just as soon stay put and let the meter run out here and leave for warmer climes….never looking back. Yo.
The economy, in general, is nothing more than a three-card monte game. Always has been and always will be, but guess what, it goes on.
“Listen to the shills, and you’ll be the one caught with your pants down when the tide goes out.
Housing is nothing but a three-card monte game that’s gone on too long. Stick around, and you can be the last sucker.”
The End is Nigh . . .
http://adage.com/article/news/dip-dilemma-kraft-running-velveeta/290932/
El fin esta cerca . . .
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/talking-numbers/this-could-be-another-lehman-like-crisis-034217339.html
Velveeta dilemma: It’s a marketing ploy. Create a buzz and watch the muppets hoard the sh1t. Apply it to anything else, especially housing. “Buy now or be priced out forever!! Housing never goes down!! Blah!! Blah!!” F.ucking 1diots.
My big complaint is that folks are now trapped in small houses due to Real Estate, Electric, Heat, Lawn Service, Snow Removal and Insurance costs rising considerably over last 10-15 years.
I can afford a 4,000 square foot house easily, heck could buy it cash.
However, I did have a chance to buy one in Fall 2011 and backed out. This one actually had decent RE taxes. The huge costs to cut lawn, plow driveway, electric bill, massive pool, homeowners insurance. And risk property taxes would shoot up was scary.
Right now heck if I lost job I can mow my lawn easy. Right now I shovel my snow with a shovel. FREE. My taxes are low and homeowners insurance low as it is based on home value.
Middle class folks who are retired near me go to Florida and leave house empty for a few months. The carrying costs are low.
Other thing that drives me nuts is the jacked up prices contractors charge in rich neighborhoods. I will give you a quick example. Sunday afternoon my lights on whole ground floor are flickering like crazy. I narrowed it down to a bad three way switch or a faulty breaker in my box. So I go to my local Ace, very blue collar at around 5pm Sunday. But the three way and buy a Murray Breaker. Which I never actually opened up whole 220 main box took it apart and replaced a breaker. Some electrician in there I was BSing with talked me through it. He said yea I had all the sandy stuff I know how it is. Back change switch, still flashing. Then I open up main panel. Replace breaker that cost 7 bucks close it up and magically my lights are fixed.
In a rich town that is $500 to $700 bucks. There aint blue collar guys helping out other blue collar guys These guys drive to Garden City, Manhasset, Alpine, Saddle River to rob the rich folk blind. Heck my lawn service guy told me upfront this year he knows about Sandy and he is taking care of folk, price is held at the usual $25. I have been paying that since 2002 and neighbor when he hired him in 1997 paid the same. He will make it back in the other neighborhoods.
Even in Assessor office when I fight they always ask where I live, show me picture then I give them song and dance stay at home wife, three kids you know how it is. They always do me a solid. Even NY Rising. I got my full grant. I doubt when the inspector came to house and saw a 5,000 square foot house with two mercedes he would have been as nice working with me to get me the most.
This all goes back to the 1980s when my 1969 Plymouth with a dent broke down in driveway of my summer house and mechanic charged me $35 for a tow to garage to fix and a week later friends vette in same driveway would not start and he got charged $100 for tow. Mechanic told him you got a vette you can afford it, if you want to drive a dented Plymouth like your friend you can pay $35.
#13…I am doing same…looked from 2002-2007 for a bigger house, ran into the Gary Phenomenon….needed $200k more for a bigger house that I would still need to upgrade…I added on in 2007, exactly what I needed…..now have paid it off…pay my “rent” to the town/county/boe for $700 a month and will move out of here once school issues are finalized in 4-6 years.
PR is in trouble. Right now no run on PR muni bonds. Most fund managers and myself included are not really selling. Prices are depressed and impossible to recreate a 6-9 tax free yield.
Trouble is they call this a position in “run-off”. A term for illiquid positions in your portfolio still producing income that you decided not to sell but dont want to buy any more.
Every month that passes you reinvest the interest elsewhere and every bond that matures you invest elsewhere, as long as the default does not happen right away by the time it happens the position is just a small part of portfoilio.
Trouble is PR needs funding, it needs folks to buy new issues, when bonds mature they need to issue new ones to pay off old ones. We all cant be in run off.
PR problems are not my problems. But they could be everyones problems.
Muni Retail investors are a skittish bunch that love to throw out the baby with the bath water. Sometime in 2014-2016 there will be a panic in PR bonds and if timed with the fed raising rates and QE ending will be a blood bath. However, it will be the buying opportunity of the decade. As a highly overtaxed person it will be great time to jump in on NJ,NY or VI bonds as they get slaughter along with PR for no good reason.
500K invested in 10% long term tax free NY or NJ munis in a full blown panic could set up your retirement for life.
Can’t post today, too busy hording Velveeta.
This is a great takedown of some “science” pushed by the friendly comrades over at NYT
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101313668
Extrapolating this “science ” to wealth accumulation seems to be a poor way to examine wealth accumulation. A better science to employ might be sociology, anthropology, or even history. I have noted in the past that I saw a sea change in attitude when it came to wealth accumulation in the late 80s and early 90s. When the economy started improving again under the tech bubble, I saw that there was much more short-term thinking, and much less long-term thinking. I saw two dynamics at work: First, people were taking the attitude that they needed to make money before the music stopped because there was no assurance it wouldn’t ever start again. Second, there was much about the disintegration of the traditional safety net of long-term employment and loyalty. There was no more corporate loyalty, and concomitantly, there was no more employee loyalty. Both of these trends suggested that there was a greater emphasis on short-term profit-taking, and little devoted to investment in the future either in terms of time or capital.
When I read the New York Times piece, I was reminded of something I heard about dogs. Here, I suppose that psychology is actually applicable, but for a physiological reason. I was told that the reason dogs will eat and gorge themselves, even if they are full, is due to their evolution. Dogs evolved from wild animals that would eat whatever food was available because there was no guarantee food would be available again anytime soon. The gorging instinct is a remnant of that evolutionary prehistory. In humans, we see the same learned behaviour but going in the opposite direction: in a capitalistic system, we have learned to gorge (rapid short-term accumulation) rather than pace accumulation because we realize that tomorrow’s meal (in the form of earnings from paycheck or investments) might not be there.
That’s my cheery thought for the day. Off to the salt mine.
#20..PR crisis was visible for years, I nixed my PR munis in 2010…I will look forward to a panic as a possible buying oppty!
[21] libturd
“Can’t post today, too busy hording Velveeta.”
Is velveeta kosher?
Hoard Velveeta? The governments been doing that for decades.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_cheese
Which reminds me of this JJ-esque tidbit from my youth:
Back in college, I was nailing a Smithie who used to date one of the founders of this band: http://www.amazon.com/Government-Cheese-1985-1995/dp/B00494XP3W
http://gsmls.com is down?
[27] back up. It was getting a mix of 503 errors and not found for a while.
Check that. http://new,gsmls.com is up, but no data behind it. They would be smart to upgrade at night.
Wouldn’t it be funny if they had no backups? I’ve seen where GSMLS and NJMLS are hosted, they aren’t very sophisticated. For years they couldn’t even support Macs on the website, and mobile took about 4 years longer than everyone else.
Chris Christie trumpets signing of Dream Act in Union City
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/01/chris_christie_trumpets_signing_of_dream_act_in_union_city.html
[30] No Backups – I was thinking the same thing. Instead of their home page I received an Apache Exception report. Not that you can’t build a good site with Apache and MySQL, but free often equals cheap and not well planned or executed.
[30] Net Access in Cedar Knolls?
Maybe Eddie launched a DoS on them in hopes of building some inventory.
Looks like CC is like every other politician out there. Baa. Baa. Send in your campaign contributions now.
chi (11)-
I began to suspect it was heading that way during my last couple of years there. Most of the guys on the basketball team had 3 ft tall bongs and their own personal assistants to wake them up and escort them to class.
Kolledge football/basketball = big $ = academic integrity out the window
Toured both UNC and NC State with my son….
UNC: $50,000 a year….we believe in higher learning…stay for you Masters and PHD!
NC State: $30,000 a year ….we are here to get your kid a job!
We picked NC State
33 – When I saw it they were running off a patchwork of servers located in the back of their small administrative office in Rutherford.
By ANGELA DELLI SANTI
Associated Press
TRENTON, N.J. (AP) – A top aide to New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie is linked through emails and text messages to a seemingly deliberate plan to create traffic gridlock in a town at the base of a major bridge after its mayor refused to endorse Christie for re-election.
“Time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee,” Christie aide Bridget Anne Kelly wrote to David Wildstein, a top political appointee at the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which runs the George Washington Bridge connecting New Jersey and New York City, one of the world’s busiest spans.
Kelly wrote the email on Aug. 13, about a month before two of three local access lanes to the bridge were diverted, causing hour-long backups in Fort Lee during the first week of school. The message was among a series of emails and texts obtained by The Associated Press and other news outlets Wednesday that are the clearest sign yet that Christie aides were involved in the lane closures.
Christie, a star in the Republican Party who’s considered a possible candidate for president in 2016, has denied that the lane closings were punitive and has said his staff was not involved. After the emails were made public Wednesday, he abruptly postponed a scheduled morning event.
Wildstein, a childhood friend of the governor, has resigned over the lane closings. He is scheduled to testify under oath before a state Assembly committee conducting one of three ongoing investigations into the lane closings.
Fort Lee Mayor Mark Sokolich, a Democrat, originally described the closings as punitive, but later backed off that assertion.
The communications showed an unattributed observation to Sokolich’s plead for help on the second day of the closings: “Is it wrong that I’m smiling?”
Just buy him a boars head route
1987 Condo says:
January 8, 2014 at 11:50 am
Toured both UNC and NC State with my son….
UNC: $50,000 a year….we believe in higher learning…stay for you Masters and PHD!
NC State: $30,000 a year ….we are here to get your kid a job!
We picked NC Stat
http://nypost.com/2014/01/02/instagram-star-jen-selter/
This beats going to college.
For JJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JphDdGV2TU
Shouldn’t cost more than 30K/year to learn how to drive a tractor and slop hogs.
You saw this post from last night?
chicagofinance says:
January 7, 2014 at 11:02 pm
clot: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-01-06/unc-athletic-scandal-charges-of-fraud-could-be-tip-of-wider-revelations#r=rss
Spine Snapper says:
January 8, 2014 at 11:37 am
chi (11)- I began to suspect it was heading that way during my last couple of years there. Most of the guys on the basketball team had 3 ft tall bongs and their own personal assistants to wake them up and escort them to class.
photo 13 of 15 gets me where I am weak…
JJ says:
January 8, 2014 at 12:50 pm
This beats going to college.
Treasury 10-Year Notes Go at 3.009% High Yield
by Yong Lim
JAN 8, 2014 1:28pm ET
The Treasury Department auctioned $21 billion of 9-year 10-month notes with a 2 3/4% coupon at a 3.009% high yield, a price of 97.805126.
#17..Velveeta…was at Wayne Costco this am….boxes of Velveeta there…
Actually, best college plan is to start them out in Community College being careful about credit transfer. Have them join student groups like newspaper or student life. Transfer to 4 yr as a junior and again get involved in orgs which expose them to high-profile persons who can mentor/pull.
We saved boatloads of cash this way; child now has masters from Chicago and ins at a number of institutions for LLD/PhD. Nobody cares where your first two years were.
I’ve got a much bigger ass than her.
Where are my 1.3 million followers?
WestJester:
You are absolutely correct with your advice. I took all of my foreign language and a few other courses as Middlesex County College to save time and money. Most electives transferred without any issue. The sad thing was that the classes at MCC were much tougher and the students much harder workers than at Montclair State College.
There are literally dozens of new stories out today on NJ.com alone about bridgegate. I really wish Christie wasn’t a possible 2016 presidential candidate. Everything that goes on in this state in the next 2 years is going to be under a microscope. They’re going to make NJ look like a total circus.
It’d be harder for them to do so if we didn’t readily provide them with such material.
Street Justice says:
January 8, 2014 at 2:19 pm
They’re going to make NJ look like a total circus.
#52,
Going to?? Hah. NJ has been 3 ring for years. Gay gov, UMDNJ,Hoboken mayor scandal, organ dealing rabbis..this is nothing.
True, but I think crap like bridgegate happens all the time, all over the country, and NJ will be recieving more covereage than normal over the next 2 years.
53.joyce says:
January 8, 2014 at 2:26 pm
It’d be harder for them to do so if we didn’t readily provide them with such material.
You do sound like your learned English at a Community College.
So what is your primary language?
Libturd in the City says:
January 8, 2014 at 1:49 pm
WestJester:
You are absolutely correct with your advice. I took all of my foreign language and a few other courses as Middlesex County College to save time and money. Most electives transferred without any issue. The sad thing was that the classes at MCC were much tougher and the students much harder workers than at Montclair State College.
looks like bridgegate is the top story on cnn.com right now….
It beat Dennis Rodman singing happy birthday to Kim Jung Un as the lead story….
Re: [57];
A) Too soon for the media to be derailing CC’s WH aspirations. J6P will have no memory of this almost three years from now;
B) Really? Lane closures? *YAWN* From the same media that can’t spell “Benghazi” and has no interest in actual media harrassment or IRA @n@l probing of tea party groups?
If CC was involved, he should be filleted appropriately.
However, if CC was not directly involved (which is still plausible) – he could very quickly clean house and spin this into a huge positive. Never let a crisis go to waste, what better way to differentiate yourself than a mass firing of your closest supporters under the guise of integrity. Only question would be, why didn’t he do it earlier? Perhaps he really didn’t know?
#60..agreed, if he is “clean”..he needs to do some firing immediately….problem with these traffic jams is that they could have (may have) impeded emergency responses….
Moose,
You beat me to it. Lane closures trump a terrorist attack on a U.S Embassy among the other 1000 lies and tragedies of this administration? Only a koolaid smacking liberal mindset could reason this to an “illogical” conclusion.
So for fun I read the glass door stuff for my company and a few others I know.
It is soooo funny.
First they always say from staff not enough promotion opportunities, Management is not helping their career, hard to move up and not enough interesting work.
Then they all add in it is silo and top heavy in management.
But they claim there is too many highly paid mgt at same time they want to be promoted and even though their are too many at the top they want the top to make more of them.
Also I find funny when you look at bios of most folk at top like 90 percent started elsewhere, got a advanced degree or did some regulatory, consulting, blue chip type company in their 20s and 30s. The kids today just want to graduate, find a cube and pretend it is kindergarten just sit there 13 years and get a cap and gown and be king of the world. They are shocked 13 years into career they are still in cube.
If the emails are genuine — which I have doubts about(how were they obtained?) — then I highly doubt they’ll implicate Christie directly. They were apparently aware enough to use private email accounts, so if CC was aware, so he wasn’t going to be put on record.
But the real story here should be why this slob continues handing out patronage jobs and failed to implement any real reform after 4+ years in office. This guy is an opportunist and panderer. I’d love to see him exposed and his ambitions crippled.
JJ,
If you got MBA in 1980s, you had practically no competition for advancement. Now, you need it just for that cubicle job. Sorry I don’t believe that your generation was just harder working or smarter. It is timing…like buying a house. Mid-90s were a good time to buy a house and get promoted. Also depends on hot iniatives and groups. Basel 2 saw tons of promotions for early 30s back office finance employees back in 2006. Now you are screwdVolker prpduced same.f
Oops…to finish thought. Volcker rule produced promotions for Ops change. Those were huge clearing initiatives. Big projects at right time gets you promoted. Success at cost savings projects gets you shown the door.
There is a local shop that I frequent. Two of the girls that work there, both in their early 20s, I see quite often and we chat extensively. One is Syrian Christian and the other is Turkish Muslim but both we’re born in the U.S. and grew up here. They dress with no religious or cultural restrictions; actually they have no hesitation in showing off their figures. They have relatives in their respective country of origin so they both have their views of world politics. And their influence is undoubtedly shaped by what is discussed at home.
So, I let them talk and I try to keep my views as subtle as possible. They both dislike Obama because in their eyes, he is not good for “their” country. Again, I had to keep it light from my side but at one point, the girl with the Turkish-Muslim roots said, “That’s why I hate this country” meaning, America. Well, I had to restrain myself…. had to take a deep breath but I calmly said, “Why don’t you leave.” She stated that she and her Mom wouldn’t have a job there.
Ok, so now there are a 100 holes in her story and dozens of ambiguous tales and I didn’t want to get into it. It’s too much to add here but she asked me why the U.S. doesn’t allow military bases from other countries on U.S. soil. I didn’t really know how to answer that question. I told her it’s just not our policy. How would you answer that question?
we’re = were
It is interesting that we have US bases in foreign countries…who would allow that!
Unless they needed our direct protection from a much larger enemy? Or needed our money?
69 – Basically, she asked that question. We could have bases in other countries but no one could have one here. I also alluded to the fact that we give a lot of money, resources, aid and protection to other countries.
Hogwash.
A close family friend is a high ranking official in the Polish special forces. He and his team were stationed at MacDill AFB CENTCOM for many, many years during the Gulf Wars. They were not loaned to, or working for, the US Military, and were, in every sense of the word, a foreign military establishment working on US soil, in conjunction with the US and other joint forces.
63. The only guy that I know in finance is my mom’s brother, now retired. MBA Wharton in the 1950’s. Head of Research First Boston then retires and heads of Research at NatWest. Guy made a huge mark. Impressive as hell. Even has the Greenspan-esque halting mumble thing down perfectly. Boring as hell though.
I suggest we stop both practices (building bases in other countries… and giving them lots of money/resources/etc)
Fast Eddie says:
January 8, 2014 at 4:42 pm
69 – Basically, she asked that question. We could have bases in other countries but no one could have one here. I also alluded to the fact that we give a lot of money, resources, aid and protection to other countries.
Also – aren’t Canadian military stationed at NORAD – which is a joint program between the US and Canada military? This too would be considered a foreign base on US soil.
How can you compare “working on US soil, in conjunction with the US and other joint forces” with us having our own autonomous military bases in hundreds of places?
grim says:
January 8, 2014 at 4:48 pm
Hogwash.
A close family friend is a high ranking official in the Polish special forces. He and his team were stationed at MacDill AFB CENTCOM for many, many years during the Gulf Wars. They were not loaned to, or working for, the US Military, and were, in every sense of the word, a foreign military establishment working on US soil, in conjunction with the US and other joint forces.
German Air Force stationed at Holloman AFB in New Mexico – Wikipedia says 650 German Military and 25 Luftwaffe Tornado aircraft stationed there as part of an Air Force training program.
chi (45)-
Yeah, I saw it. Just more of the same shit. When it’s all over, we’ll be in the same hall of infamy as SMU, Miami and Ohio State. Hate to say it, but my son could probably go there and play soccer, but I’m not encouraging it. A lot of heads need to roll before I feel good about UNC again.
lib (50)-
There’s a different type of follower for male cellulite and hairy ass cracks.
How can you compare “working on US soil, in conjunction with the US and other joint forces” with us having our own autonomous military bases in hundreds of places?
I’m not trying to, but the comments seemed to imply that the US forbade foreign military deployments and operations on US soil, which seems to be incorrect.
Rich banker Uncle, however, is disgusted with the way Wall Str. conducts itself today. Hardly recognizes the place for all of the destruction, avarice, and greed.
Is it just me, or is this whole Fort Lee story the most boring so called political scandal I’ve ever seen?
That’s fair if that’s how you read it. I took it to mean permanent/autonomous military installations by a foreign country.
grim says:
January 8, 2014 at 5:01 pm
How can you compare “working on US soil, in conjunction with the US and other joint forces” with us having our own autonomous military bases in hundreds of places?
I’m not trying to, but the comments seemed to imply that the US forbade foreign military deployments and operations on US soil, which seems to be incorrect.
Looks like Germany also has troops and aircraft stationed at Dulles
Tinfoil hatters even post videos of it on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kM6Md2qxqE
I could’ve done the research on military presence, etc. but this is why I asked the question here. I wasn’t immediately aware of what foreign military presence, if any, exists here.
Joyce,
Yes, I originally took it to mean permanent/autonomous military installations as well.
Looks like the German AFB in New Mexico is no secret, they’ve mentioned 13 years:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I-8zi7-RGQA
Gotta say, the iron cross on the luftwaffe jets does give me pause.
86 – Well if that’s the case, it would have been the British with a military installation on US soil … and we sure did whoop their ass 200 years ago.
88 – I hear ya. The chick just really p1ssed me off by that point. I think her statement was meant to say that we can inject our military in various countries but no one can do it here. I really wanted to tell her, tough sh1t, until further notice, we’re still king of the f.ucking hill.
Btw, the Syrian Christian chickie was getting rather silent as the conversation was going on, realizing the “tone” of the discussion. In fact, she would toss in a joke or two and tried to lighten things. I always liked her much more anyway. She is rather witty and intelligent, a bit more logical and much more sensitive than the other one.
Yeah, given the fact that most modern militaries can kill people thousands of miles away with the press of a button, having shaved head troops with guns sleeping in cots seems a little bit outdated as the basis for the definition of what a military base is.
So when I say there are foreign military commanders operating on US soil (directing their foreign stationed soldiers to go out and kill people and/or blow shit up) – to me that’s a military base.
Having some US soldiers stationed on foreign soil? That’s a political favor. We really don’t need a base on your soil to kill you anymore.
Last time bases were an issue were the 1980s and Reagan, prior to the fall of the Berlin Wall. Now the probably are more a part of the local economy.
The best fighting force is a roving paramilitary gang.
Yup, which reaffirms the rationale for us not having bases everywhere.
grim says:
January 8, 2014 at 5:24 pm
Yeah, given the fact that most modern militaries can kill people thousands of miles away with the press of a button, having shaved head troops with guns sleeping in cots seems a little bit outdated as the basis for the definition of what a military base is.
Lovely.
Fast Eddie says:
January 8, 2014 at 5:16 pm
88 – I hear ya. The chick just really p1ssed me off by that point. I think her statement was meant to say that we can inject our military in various countries but no one can do it here. I really wanted to tell her, tough sh1t, until further notice, we’re still king of the f.ucking hill.
Of course they are. And we can’t ever get rid of a govt program because JOBS! will be lost. Nevermind the stupidity, or willful blindness, of those promoting gov jobs.
1987 Condo says:
January 8, 2014 at 5:30 pm
bases… Now the[y] probably are more a part of the local economy.
Send those Turkish and Syrian bitchez back to the hellholes they came from. See how they like that.
How are these people any different than FlabMax?
Fast Eddie says:
January 8, 2014 at 4:36 pm
“That’s why I hate this country” meaning, America. Well, I had to restrain myself…. had to take a deep breath but I calmly said, “Why don’t you leave.” She stated that she and her Mom wouldn’t have a job there.
Ben – as a resident of Ft. Lee I disagree. The town is gridlock ( a lot less since the recession and high tolls) a lot of days. Take a look at certain areas they have boulders by certain street/green/backyard areas because during gridlock peeple drive through it.
For douchebag fatso to play Nixonian paranoia/retribution games is nasty. At least his faults showed early before gained before president.
Fast Eddie – regarding the girl, tell her the US has bases in Turkey because her countrymen are a bunch of massage giving girlie men that lost “their” Ottoman Empire and Caliphate to a stupidity, and would likely have been singing the “Internationale” and driving a Lada by the time Breshnev brows became a uni-brow.
To say that we do not host the military of other governments is incorrect.
I’m was in the USAF from 2004-2008 and although I didn’t go visit I was aware that foreign governments were hosting military bases on U.S. soil for the wars in the middle east. Those military “bases” were physically located inside U.S. military bases but contained all the rights and privileges that are given to embassies (they are technically considered foreign soil). It allowed the U.S. to work much closer and coordinate better among the disparate groups. These were temporary locations and not something permanent but they held the same status and purpose to which you describe.
The reality is that the U.S. military is some of the best in the world. A fight with the U.S. would be pretty much asymmetric at this point as we have a very large advantage due to technology. This will not always be the case but for now we have the advantage. We generally do not need to bolster our security posture by hosting another government’s military.
We do host a lot of foreign military officers at U.S. military bases. I can name countless personal encounters with military officers from other governments. This comes from military war colleges, post-graduate work at military schools, and peering for intelligence reasons. I have invited some of them over for dinner at my house and to meet my family.
I think the best argument that you can use is the following, “That absolutely isn’t correct, we have had military bases for foreign governments on U.S. soil. It is just that they do not readily make the news because it is a rare event. Americans, as most other countries, do not like the idea of a permanently stationed foreign military presence.”
Not Ben 99 – Understood! :)
ChiFi 98 – There probably is no difference. We know how Oblammy feels. He’s stated it many times in so many words.
chi (98)-
No difference between gluteus and fat, hairy Third World bitchez. All of them want to bring us down to the level of Cro-Magnon dirt people.
chicago-fast eddie…
My problem with the, ‘If you don’t like, leave’ one-liner is the following. Are people in favor of Obamacare (for example), allowed to tell you the same?
chicagofinance says:
January 8, 2014 at 6:07 pm
How are these people any different than FlabMax?
Fast Eddie says:
January 8, 2014 at 4:36 pm
“That’s why I hate this country” meaning, America. Well, I had to restrain myself…. had to take a deep breath but I calmly said, “Why don’t you leave.” She stated that she and her Mom wouldn’t have a job there.
Reminds me…I need to throw a TV dinner to the Russian girl I bought for the Super Bowl.
It’s also like one saying they hate their job, but remaining because they sh-tty alternatives.
Isn’t our Deployment in Afghanistan costing us a cool $2Bil a day? You can fund allot of handout programs with that.
All alternatives for the human race seem pretty shitty.
How do I get rid of this Russian girl after Super Sunday?
107 – Buy an EV and let god sort ’em out
RE # 110 – numbers I can find are more like 2 Billion a week not a day. Sorry perhaps a moped per citizen..
Joyce 104 – Throwing the baby out with the bath water? How is disagreeing with a piece of legislation that punishes a decent wage earner the same as despising the foundation of a democracy? The same democracy that allows us to disagree. Perhaps that young lady would prefer to be wrapped, tied, buried up to her chest and stoned to death for showing a few inches of flesh. Let her try to go to another country where woman are cattle and demonstrate her displeasure over that country.
re: Bases – The world is littered with closed military installations from the UK, France, Spain and other former Naval powers.
1) This is country is not a democracy, nor is supposed to be. It’s supposed to be a republic (but it isn’t either in reality).
2) If she follows your advice and leaves, why do you assume she has to go to a country that treats women like cattle and not, say Canada or others that are similar?
3) It wasn’t exactly clear from you brief summary of the story why she said she hates this country… whether it was one specific thing or a culmination of things.
4) Now that I reread your story, were you implying that she should leave or that she should “go home” to the country of her family? (though you said she was born here)… cause that’s different than just leaving to go where ever.
Fast Eddie says:
January 8, 2014 at 8:27 pm
Joyce 104 – Throwing the baby out with the bath water? How is disagreeing with a piece of legislation that punishes a decent wage earner the same as despising the foundation of a democracy? The same democracy that allows us to disagree. Perhaps that young lady would prefer to be wrapped, tied, buried up to her chest and stoned to death for showing a few inches of flesh. Let her try to go to another country where woman are cattle and demonstrate her displeasure over that country.
Talking heads in the media say those like me that don’t like the unlawful spying of the govt. to just leave and go elsewhere. Where do you draw the line between which new/proposed/old laws were allowed to oppose or support before we cross the threshold and should just leave?
Fast Eddie says:
January 8, 2014 at 8:27 pm
Joyce 104 – Throwing the baby out with the bath water? How is disagreeing with a piece of legislation that punishes a decent wage earner the same as despising the foundation of a democracy? The same democracy that allows us to disagree. Perhaps that young lady would prefer to be wrapped, tied, buried up to her chest and stoned to death for showing a few inches of flesh. Let her try to go to another country where woman are cattle and demonstrate her displeasure over that country.
Sorry, one more Eddie. What do you mean the foundation of democracy? Are you implying the United States is the foundation of democracy? Even if this country was setup to be one, it’s hardly the first and perhaps a refresh on world history is in order.
Answer my question: How is disagreeing with a piece of legislation the same as despising the foundation of a democracy?
Democracy: A form of government in which all eligible citizens participate equally—either directly or through elected representatives—in the proposal, development, and creation of laws.
For better or worse, we’re still a democracy.
She didn’t state the EXACT reason(s) why she hates this country. She’s of the ambiguous belief that America randomly kills people for whatever reason and that America is endorsing the Gülen movement.
And why would she go to Canada and accept that country yet claim that she hates this country? Has Canada become Utopia?
You see…it’s still boring to me. Everyone in NJ has been stuck in a pointless jam for hours on numerous occasions. Just because some douche in Trenton ordered it, should I care? I’m amazed that we have politicians throughout NJ stealing and diverting thousands of our property tax dollars every day and we don’t care. 2 lanes get shut down by some politician, and all of the sudden the press and everyone else goes apeshit? Priorities… there are none.
Ben – as a resident of Ft. Lee I disagree. The town is gridlock ( a lot less since the recession and high tolls) a lot of days. Take a look at certain areas they have boulders by certain street/green/backyard areas because during gridlock peeple drive through it.
For douchebag fatso to play Nixonian paranoia/retribution games is nasty. At least his faults showed early before gained before president.
Fast Eddie – regarding the girl, tell her the US has bases in Turkey because her countrymen are a bunch of massage giving girlie men that lost “their” Ottoman Empire and Caliphate to a stupidity, and would likely have been singing the “Internationale” and driving a Lada by the time Breshnev brows became a uni-brow.
Joyce, honestly, I don’t care about the difference between off-white, beige and everything in between. My father spent two years on a German border, came home and worked two jobs for the next 40 years without so much as a whimper while giving anything and everything he could to those less fortunate. So, when some little b1tch says she hates this country, that’s enough for me. Quite frankly, she’s lucky I didn’t smack her in the f.ucking mouth. I’m done.
I didn’t answer your question because it was off topic and quite frankly didn’t make any sense within the context of the story nor our posts to eachother. To quickly answer your question, the two are not the same.
If you think we’re still a democracy, that implies at one point we were. Well, this country wasn’t at the very beginning. Maybe at some point along it’s road to perdition we were a democracy… but if you think we are right now, I have some Bergen County properties to sell you. Priced well, trust me.
“She’s of the … belief that America randomly kills people”
There’s nothing random about it. There’s always a reason or reasons. Some good, some bad.
No, Canada is not Utopida; I only used Canada as an example to say there are options other than the US and the Middle East. Should I have picked Australia or countless others? Another reason she could choose them as that they are close by and do not have military bases all over… which is related to our conversation at hand.
Fast Eddie says:
January 8, 2014 at 9:15 pm
Answer my question: How is disagreeing with a piece of legislation the same as despising the foundation of a democracy?
Democracy: A form of government in which all eligible citizens participate equally—either directly or through elected representatives—in the proposal, development, and creation of laws.
For better or worse, we’re still a democracy.
She didn’t state the EXACT reason(s) why she hates this country. She’s of the ambiguous belief that America randomly kills people for whatever reason and that America is endorsing the Gülen movement.
And why would she go to Canada and accept that country yet claim that she hates this country? Has Canada become Utopia?
When did this discussion become about skin-color?
Fast Eddie says:
January 8, 2014 at 9:25 pm
Joyce, honestly, I don’t care about the difference between off-white, beige and everything in between. My father spent two years on a German border, came home and worked two jobs for the next 40 years without so much as a whimper while giving anything and everything he could to those less fortunate. So, when some little b1tch says she hates this country, that’s enough for me. Quite frankly, she’s lucky I didn’t smack her in the f.ucking mouth. I’m done.
WTF is the issue with bases? We have our troops at allies’ bases. They have theirs here. We train and coordinate with our allies. This has been so for decades. WTF is the problem?
skin color? I was referring to the 50 shades of minutia this conversation is becoming. :-)
The problem with the lane closings is that CC (or his staff or both) purposely wrecked tens of thousands of peoples commutes to play partisan games. It’s really not a small story and reeks of what is wrong with our two party system. Not to mention how politicized and corrupt the Port Authority is for letting this occur. I hate to say it, but this story most likely has sunk CC’s chances in 2016. The fact that his staffers were so sloppy only adds to his appearance of incompetence. He is no different than any other politician. Send in your campaign contributions won’t you.
“I don’t care about the difference between off-white, beige and everything in between. ”
Oops, my apologies on my previous comment.
“My father spent two years on a German border, came home and worked two jobs for the next 40 years without so much as a whimper while giving anything and everything he could to those less fortunate.”
Your father sounds like a terrific person; though not really germane to the topic at hand.
“So, when some little b1tch says she hates this country, that’s enough for me. Quite frankly, she’s lucky I didn’t smack her in the f.ucking mouth.”
Once again, lovely.
I hate a lot about this country, and on the other hand I like some of it very much. I’ll try to stay out of your firing line.
Fast Eddie says:
January 8, 2014 at 9:25 pm
Joyce, honestly, I don’t care about the difference between off-white, beige and everything in between. My father spent two years on a German border, came home and worked two jobs for the next 40 years without so much as a whimper while giving anything and everything he could to those less fortunate. So, when some little b1tch says she hates this country, that’s enough for me. Quite frankly, she’s lucky I didn’t smack her in the f.ucking mouth. I’m done.
Military bases are necessary the world over to force everyone to trade oil only for US dollars. It’s very simple math. Without the largest military presence why would other sovereign nations buy US dollars so they can then buy oil? As soon as the US becomes the majority producer of the replacement energy source we will quickly close down the majority of those bases. China doesn’t need any military power to force the world to buy the fruits of their cornered market of cheap human labor, right? As soon as we can reaffirm a cornered market of cheap energy we can pull back and tell the rest of the world to put up or shut up. As of right now we need military supremacy to support our currency.
Re: Gov Christie
I can remember full well the story of McGreevy getting a mattress or folding seat installed in his SUV on our dime for trysts? Then there was Corzine another presidential hopeful breaking all the rules to mediate Don Imus and the basketball ladies of RU and almost dying in a car crash.
I have seen the current GOV in action, he holds court in diners across NJ and regularly gets people kicked (his handlers do) from the diners for speaking a different tune. Bully or just politics? Who am I to judge? I am not his doctor after all.
Call me biased but politicians are in it for POWER FIRST and they
will trample their own mother for that power.
Christie has to=o lose weight and polish his Political Oratory skills. Heck his high priced handlers know this, so what I say means zip and I know it.
Lets see if he still floats. I predict he does for now.
You mean it’s not to keep us safe?
The Original NJ ExPat, cusp of doom says:
January 8, 2014 at 10:32 pm
Military bases are necessary the world over to force everyone to trade oil only for US dollars. It’s very simple math. Without the largest military presence why would other sovereign nations buy US dollars so they can then buy oil? As soon as the US becomes the majority producer of the replacement energy source we will quickly close down the majority of those bases. China doesn’t need any military power to force the world to buy the fruits of their cornered market of cheap human labor, right? As soon as we can reaffirm a cornered market of cheap energy we can pull back and tell the rest of the world to put up or shut up. As of right now we need military supremacy to support our currency.
send her to the Winter Olympics……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5uVT51Poa0
Spine Snapper says:
January 8, 2014 at 8:18 pm
How do I get rid of this Russian girl after Super Sunday?
Very few times this site gets a total” WOW” out of me but today you just all got an F in Geopolitical understanding.
With so many post floating around, it’s hard to know where to start. I think Nicholas@100 is the closest to coherent thought.
Yes, other countries have training bases within the US. The Mohave Desert is a great facility. You can fly your planes around there all day without issue. We have all these countries with hardware within our borders but as pointed out they are all ring fenced within existing US facilities.
Here is where it differs. Any country in the world you would be happy with them storing nuclear weapons on US soil? By the way, those nukes are under their own command and with no US control?
France shows up and says we want to host nuclear weapons in case those Canadians want to dance over old grievance’s. Where does the US stand on that?
If anyone want to actually educate themselves on this topic, Google “Okinawa” and educate themselves.
[130] Fabian,
Rather hyperbolic of you, don’t you think?. I guess you feel that your British passport doubles as a degree in Government from Oxford. Aside from what I admit was an inane discussion, the thing making me say “wow” is the new high (or low) in hubris from The Guardian’s self-appointed American commentator.
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