Bye bye Freddie and Fannie?

From Bloomberg:

U.S. Wind-Down Bill Clips Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Shares

Leaders of the U.S. Senate Banking Committee announced long-awaited plans to dismantle Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, pushing the companies’ common shares to their biggest intraday drop in 10 months.

Fannie Mae shares tumbled as much as 44 percent, paring the losses to 31 percent to close in New York at $4.03, after Edwin Groshans, a managing director at Washington-based equity research firm Height Analytics LLC, described the proposal as holder-negative. Freddie Mac fell 27 percent to close at $4.04. Preferred shares also dropped, some by as much as 12 percent.

The bipartisan measure, drafted with input from President Barack Obama’s administration, would replace the U.S.-owned mortgage financiers with government bond insurance that would kick in only after private capital suffered losses of at least 10 percent, Senate Banking Committee Chairman Tim Johnson and Senator Mike Crapo said in a statement yesterday. The bill would require most borrowers to make down payments of at least 5 percent.

“This starts the ball rolling to get housing finance reform done,” Jaret Seiberg, policy analyst at Guggenheim Securities LLC’s Washington Research Group said in a telephone interview. “This issue remains alive and kicking and whatever happens in the next few weeks is going to tell us whether we get to the finish line or not.”

This entry was posted in Economics, Housing Recovery, Mortgages, Politics. Bookmark the permalink.

153 Responses to Bye bye Freddie and Fannie?

  1. grim says:

    Wow, talk about teeth…

    The bill would require most borrowers to make down payments of at least 5 percent.

    “Most” would need to put down at least 5%?

  2. grim says:

    From the WSJ:

    Plan for Mortgage Giants Takes Shape

    The plan, by Senate Banking Committee leaders Tim Johnson (D., S.D) and Mike Crapo (R., Idaho), calls for replacing Fannie and Freddie with a new system of federally insured mortgage securities in which private insurers would be required to take initial losses before any government guarantee would be triggered.

    The agreement, which faces a long road to approval, represents the most concrete step so far to resolve the last major piece of unfinished business from the 2008 financial collapse.

    “It would be a huge step forward,” said Phillip Swagel, who was an assistant secretary for economic policy under Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, who oversaw the government’s seizure of the firms in 2008.

    Even though top Democrats and Republicans on the Senate panel have reached an agreement, a full Senate vote isn’t assured, and there is even less certainty that members in the House will go along. There is deep unease among House Republicans to maintaining a significant federal backstop for the U.S. mortgage market.

    Other hurdles: Congress will be less likely to take up a bill as November’s midterm elections draw closer, leaving less time for debate. Consumer and industry groups are sure to resist any steps to raise loan costs or limit mortgage access.

    Messrs. Johnson and Crapo said they plan to release a full draft of their bill within days and to hold a committee vote within weeks. The proposal follows months of behind-the-scenes negotiations that involved close collaboration between Republican and Democratic committee staffers. The Obama administration also has been closely involved in the negotiations on the bill, which reflects key principles it set forward last August. “We support this effort and believe it is a workable bipartisan approach to complete the biggest remaining piece of post-recession financial reform,” said Bobby Whithorne, a White House spokesman.

  3. Phony & Fraudy. They can never repair the damage they did. Shut them the f down.

  4. All these asshats in DC are just trying to find another way to continue transfusing the dead and rotting corpse of housing.

  5. Then again, housing looks healthy compared to the extend-and-pretend world of commercial RE.

  6. anon (the good one) says:

    jj,
    that’s why one should never buy American cars.
    yes congress wants to know just for the fukc of it. No jail for white collar criminals

    @CBSRadioNews: Congress wants to know why it took #GM nearly 10 years to recall more than a million cars with ignition problems: http://t.co/LQaHCzgiYj

  7. grim says:

    6 – Thanks goodness for car dealerships, without them we’d all be dead.

  8. Thundaar says:

    In one example of the challenges companies face, CIANJ President John Galandak described how Dave & Buster’s Inc., a Dallas-based national restaurant chain, has been stymied in its efforts to enter the New Jersey market because of what he called an “antiquated” rule.

    http://www.northjersey.com/news/249679411_Businesses_still_fleeing_N_J_.html

  9. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Hey Nom don’t see any billionaires on this list thought you may find it interesting with your hobby of watching expat list

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/expats-ditching-u-s–passports-151127757.html

  10. yome says:

    President Obama will ask the Labor Department on Thursday to issue tougher rules on overtime, which could lead to extra pay for millions of workers not currently getting paid for extra hours of work.
    The administration will point out that some convenience store managers, fast food shift supervisors and office workers may be expected to work 50 or 60 hours a week without overtime and that their hourly pay rate may actually be less than the $7.25 an hour minimum wage.
    Currently, most hourly workers must be paid time-and-a-half if they work more than 40 hours a week. Most salaried workers do not need to be paid overtime, unless they earn less than $455 a week.
    But that works out to $23,660 a year, which is less than the federal poverty level for a family of four.
    And that pay threshold hasn’t been raised in 10 years, since President Bush upped it from $250 a week. It would be $553 today if it had gone up in line with inflation since then.

    http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/12/news/economy/obama-overtime/index.html?iid=Lead

  11. 30 year realtor says:

    FNMA & FHLMC phased out? Results, increased down payments, higher credit scores and higher interest rates. Not that I am against the change, but this illustrates some of the long term headwinds facing residential real estate.

  12. yome says:

    “It would replace the U.S.-owned mortgage financiers with government bond insurance that would kick in only after private capital suffered losses of at least 10 percent.”

    A new name for PMI with out the 20% required losses?

  13. Ben says:

    5 percent. Sad thing is. That extra 1.5 squeezes out a ton of people.

  14. clotluva says:

    Didn’t see this article posted/discussed yesterday. Granted, the report looks to be a tool to set the stage for some sort of taxpayer funded wealth transfer, but still some rather bearish signs for housing (i.e. if both owning and renting become cost prohibitive, it doesn’t bode well for the formation of new households). But then again, with so much of the population having to “shelter-in-place”, it frees up $ for discretionary spending on things like iPhones and entry-level german cars.

    New York State Reports Steep Rise in Housing Costs

    The share of households above the 30 percent affordability level rose sharply — to 50.6 percent in 2012 from 40.5 percent in 2000 for renters, and to 33.9 percent from 26.4 percent for homeowners, the comptroller’s analysis of census data from 2000 to 2012 showed.

    The report pointed to two other trends as major culprits, regardless of location: While median monthly housing costs rose 18.6 percent for renters and 9.9 percent for homeowners from 2000 to 2012, median household income dropped 7.1 percent for renters and 1.6 percent for homeowners during the same period.
    ..
    Higher rents because of low vacancy rates and rising property taxes are also affecting affordability, the report noted. Many homeowners are just as vexed, even when they do not have a mortgage, because of higher property taxes and maintenance costs like heating, Mr. Sebastian noted.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/11/nyregion/new-york-state-reports-steep-rise-in-housing-costs.html?_r=0

  15. Comrade Nom Deplume in the dark says:

    [9] pain

    I can’t imagine why you would see one there. The math dictates this. They have the wherewithal to avoid the sort of punitive taxation others can’t, and most would do better under existing law here than elsewhere. They simply aren’t the sort who would benefit from expatriation, and would likely suffer more by renouncing.

  16. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    You know until you brought it up I never truly understood how punitive the IRS requirements were for ex-pats. I’m glad I did not take the 1 year job in Germany with a former company i think I would have ended up with a tax rate close to 80% accounting for US and Germany’s taxes

  17. nwnj says:

    Ah, the nasty unintended consequences. Clearly someone has told him that the hourly workers in many service industries would start making more than their salaried supervisors if the minimum wage is raised. I may have to increase my estimate of 4k restaurants closing in the first year of the higher minimum wage if he pushed this through also.

    President Obama will ask the Labor Department on Thursday to issue tougher rules on overtime, …

  18. Anon E. Moose says:

    nwnj [17];

    Exactly which hourly workers are going to be working overtime? They’ve all been cut to under 29 hours to avoid O-care.

  19. Street Justice says:

    Hey Nom, Is there a list of NJ expats published on a regular basis? I’d find that more interesting. We can all watch as you post about the leigons of NJ taxpayers fleeing the state for neighboring states….like rats on a sinking ship…..

    15.Comrade Nom Deplume in the dark says:
    March 12, 2014 at 9:52 am
    [9] pain

    I can’t imagine why you would see one there. The math dictates this. They have the wherewithal to avoid the sort of punitive taxation others can’t, and most would do better under existing law here than elsewhere. They simply aren’t the sort who would benefit from expatriation, and would likely suffer more by renouncing.

  20. anon (the good one) says:

    no jail time. locked up for life had he been from Newark. no jail for white collar

    like other phD criminals, he will flourish teaching at Chicago Finance

    @breakingnews70: US judge orders former Goldman Sachs trader Fabrice Tourre to pay more than $825,000 after a jury found him liable for… #breakingnews

  21. jcer says:

    Fabrice Tourre was a fall guy. A mid level IBanker who put some damning things in email, but ultimately was not entirely responsible. I think the penalty is fair and pretty harsh, what would jail accomplish? Newark…bah you could kill someone there and do minimum time, stop the liberal bullsh*t, try living in an urban city in NJ and tell me about jail time or concealed carry.

  22. joyce says:

    jcer,
    I agree completely. That said I think the financial fraudsters as well as the gang element deserve decades in prison (and yes, I’d want to see Fabrice’s boss and boss’ boss in jail for life, him not as much).

  23. joyce says:

    The fines, which usually fall on the company (i.e. shareholders) and not the individual, are less than a zero-deterent. I contend it actually encourages the frauds to continue. Profit X and pay less than X while admitting no wrongdoing and no one goes to prison… sounds like a good business model to me.

  24. JJ says:

    Jap cars and German cars are just better at hiding defects. My firend worked at Nissan and they routinely would send out free oil change coupons or just do it on their own when car came in for repair rather than tell folks about recalls. The first year Maxima was a complete lemon. But folks rarely know. When my friend worked in a dealership some lady came in complaining of issues with engine who worked in city, told her most likely just a little adjustment tell you what bring it in for a free oil change and we will look at it. She worked in Manhattan, they actually changed the engine while she was at work and had it done by six pm and never told lady. The VIN numbers did not even match. Mercedes was big on voluntary recalls. My old Mercedes spent 25 years away from dealership and frame collasped, there was a voluntary recall on subframes that was fixed for free when you brought car to dealer and they notified orginal owner via mail. Since voluntary not a recall. Meanwhile GM and Ford just blast it out.

    Honestly my wifes 2005 Envoy only issue was the gas guage broke prematurely and cost me $500 to fix. I argued I read on line multiple people are having this problem around year five and they should last longer. GM told me we are looking into it and will put you on a list. Around one year later I got a check in the mail. GM said average life span is ten years for part and cut me a check for $250 and said if part breaks again during my ownership repair would be free. Other than that I had the GMC Envoy for 7 years and a GMC Envoy was listed as a less reliable truck. My wifes 2012 GMC has never broke and my 2011 Caddie never broke.

    My BMW was pretty good. My big complaint was maint. A new battery $600 and oil changes $200 were killer. But in my four years of owning it no repairs.

    My Camry I owned 8 years. Pretty good. Only weird one was engine motor mounts collasped around six years old with only 40K milage and broke exhust manifold and cost like $800 to fix and was told that is a common problem.

    My Mercedes was a nightmare. On top of expensive maint it did need repairs and repairs were also super expensive. The worst of both worlds.

    My Mercury Sable was the best by far. Maint was very cheap and repairs was very cheap and it rarely ever needed repairs. However, boring boring boring. But I see why rental companies have Taurus and Sables back in day. I once got new front brakes, two new tires, wipers and an oil change for under $200 bucks After that “major” investment are went another two years without a repair till I totaled it. Even in totalling it still ran, but frame was bent so bad windhield was popped out.

    6.anon (the good one) says:
    March 12, 2014 at 7:31 am
    jj,
    that’s why one should never buy American cars.
    yes congress wants to know just for the fukc of it. No jail for white collar criminals

    @CBSRadioNews: Congress wants to know why it took #GM nearly 10 years to recall more than a million cars with ignition problems: http://t.co/LQaHCzgiYj

  25. nwnj says:

    #18 Few hourly workers are working overtime, but many salaried managers in the service industries makes less that 10 an hour when their hours worked are factored. To pay hourlys 10-15 hour is FUBAR if management is making less.

  26. nwnj says:

    Are the whereabouts of Bill Ayers known?

    Boom – Building just Blew up in Manhattan – CRAZY

  27. yome says:

    Did we not settle that this restaurant workers are not making enough to make a living that we have to subsidize them through food stamps etc. Are the restaurant owners really paying them or the tax payers are?

  28. joyce says:

    You’re example assumes each and everyone of them is the sole provider for a family of four.

    yome says:
    March 12, 2014 at 10:50 am
    Did we not settle that this restaurant workers are not making enough to make a living that we have to subsidize them through food stamps etc. Are the restaurant owners really paying them or the tax payers are?

  29. yome says:

    A couple working earning minimum wage still put them below poverty level add to that if they have kids. You dont have to be the sole provider

  30. nwnj says:

    #29

    This is coming from the person who said they’d like to kill 500k jobs to pull 100k workers above the poverty line.

  31. Juice Box says:

    Gotta love the hutzpa of some of these H-1B contract workers. One here just went home again for six weeks to get married. That is after the three weeks he took December and January. Man is he in for a surprise when US Customs and Immigration does not let him and his new bride back into the country.

  32. yome says:

    31
    What 500,00 jobs are you exactly losing if the tax payers really are the ones paying them to live? Take 100,000 out of the below poverty equation,now you got 100,000 less to feed

  33. nwnj says:

    #33

    As I said earlier, anon level dumb.

  34. yome says:

    #34
    I will not be happy to be as smart as you are. Simple equation

  35. Fast Eddie says:

    The bill would require most borrowers to make down payments of at least 5 percent.

    I’ve been consumed with work and didn’t read the comments but when I saw this statement, all I could think of is, “f.uck you, pay me.” What are the pretenders going to do now when they have to come with 25 grand for a p1ss hole on top of the moving expenses, the new roof and electric needed, new furniture, an over-hauled bathroom and 10 gallons of paint to get the f.ucking joint liveable? No duck pond for you, Muffin!

  36. Fast Eddie says:

    FNMA & FHLMC phased out? Results, increased down payments, higher credit scores and higher interest rates.

    Oh baby, please let it happen!

  37. joyce says:

    yome,
    If you’re talking about 600 jobs not making much and all requiring some assistance, and then 100 of them make more and require zero assistance, but the other 500 are now making 0 … will they not require MORE assistance than they were previously? At best, a zero sum difference net-net.

  38. Fast Eddie says:

    A couple working earning minimum wage still put them below poverty level add to that if they have kids.

    If you’re an adult making minimum wage and cannot figure out how to increase your skill set and/or income, then you deserve to make minimum wage.

  39. yome says:

    How can they be making zero if the tax payers pay them already? We were paying them already when they were working.

  40. Theo says:

    You can’t just use part-timers to avoid O-care. O-care doesn’t just count how many full time workers you have, it counts how many full time equivalent workers you have. So you may actually better off having full time workers if you want to avoid O-care issues, depending on how the calculations come out. For example, if you have 20 pt workers working 25 hr/wk, it counts as 12 fte. You may be better off with 10 full time workers, all else being equal.

  41. nwnj says:

    #38

    Thank you for having the patience to explain that.

  42. nwnj says:

    #39

    My guess is that a high percentage of adults(not kids working seasonally) working full time at minimum wage have either physical or mental disability or are in transition. Those are the type who the social services programs are intended for. When you take away their job, in a lot of cases you rob them of of their dignity. Anon/yome would rather see them on the dole entirely.

  43. yome says:

    #43
    If they were in a transition like you said, I just made life easier for them. They can collect unemployment while getting the skill they need to better their lives while we the tax payers pay for all this. Now you will be against this idea because we have to put more of the bill

  44. Libturd in the City says:

    During the tech bubble years, some of my workers were making more money than me as they were paid hourly, not salary. Though we both worked the same number of hours on average, their overtime put them way above my salary. I got this straightened out by going to my supervisor and asking to be demoted so I could get paid more with less responsibility. A hefty increase was achieved and since, they have always made sure to keep me a bit ahead of my team pay-wise.

    Be careful of what you are asking for ultra-libs. You may just lose more of those poverty line workers to increase the pay of their supervisors.

  45. chicagofinance says:

    The Mets need to sign this guy….he will fit right in….

    If one were asked to describe the Cincinnati Reds’ spring training camp atmosphere in Tempe, Ariz., the word “circus” could apply — sort of.

    That’s because Trevor Bell — a 27-year-old reliever trying to make the team — has clown in his blood, as he is the grandson of Bob Bell, who played Bozo the Clown on WGN in Chicago from 1960 to 1984.

    “He did it for 25 years straight — if I could play baseball for 25 years, that’d be incredible,” Bell told the Cincinnati Enquirer about his grandfather’s routine. “It’d take him three-and-a-half hours to put his makeup on every day. He’d be up at 3:30 in the morning putting on his makeup and he did it for the kids, and that’s all he did it for. He did it to lighten kids’ days, it was something that was totally selfless. It’s a lost thing nowadays in the arts. It’s still lost in the arts. As far as acting, baseball, it’s keeping those things alive.”

    Bell has a tattoo of his grandfather on his left arm, along with a pair of clown shoes with the words, “These shoes will never be filled.”

    “He was just the type of person who could walk into a room and brighten everyone’s day no matter what,” he said. “Even without the makeup, he’d put it on and it’d be even more. It wasn’t a fake thing, he just loved to do that.”

    Bell was a first-round draft pick of the Angels in 2005, and appeared in 52 games (11 starts) for the club from 2009 to 2011, posting a 4-8 record with a 5.21 ERA. After he got off to a rough start in Triple-A in 2012, the Angels released him and he didn’t catch on with another team for the rest of the season.

    Last June, the Reds signed Bell and assigned him to the team’s Double-A affiliate in Pensacola, Fla.

    “From Day 1, it just seemed like the good idea with this organization,” Bell said. “The way they came after me, the way they communicated with me. They didn’t lie to me. They didn’t say, ‘We’re going to send you to Double-A and you’ll be in Triple-A in a week.’ They said, ‘Go there, we want you to help the team out, younger guys, show them how to be in the clubhouse, how to be outside the field.’ I took that responsibility with open arms because I knew that’s what they wanted me to do.”

    Bell had a renaissance season in the minor leagues, posting a 1.72 ERA with 17 saves in 27 games, striking out 37 batters in 31¹/₃ innings. He has carried that success over to spring training, striking out six batters in 3²/₃ innings.

    Bell is expected to start the season in the minor leagues.

  46. joyce says:

    And he’s still fighting, lol.

    nwnj says:
    March 12, 2014 at 11:33 am
    #38

    Thank you for having the patience to explain that.

  47. nwnj says:

    Typical idiot, thinks he knows what’s best for others and wants it legislated.

    44. …I just made life easier for them..

  48. Hughesrep says:

    43

    Employers who hire the disabled are not required to pay them the minimum wage.

  49. Ragnar says:

    Anon, yome, fabmax, Michael seem to think wages, taxes, prices and so forth should all be determined by their golden rule:
    “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”
    Here’s how that would actually work out:
    http://thesnarkwhohuntsback.wordpress.com/favorite-passages-from-atlas-shrugged/the-story-of-the-twentieth-century-motor-company-atlas-shrugged-part-ii/

  50. JJ says:

    Here’s the latest warning sign for junk-bond investors: The quality of covenants that govern high-yield bonds fell to a record low in February, Moody’s reports today, after it had improved for the previous three months. The average covenant-quality score for high-yield bonds in North America dropped to 4.36 last month from 3.84 in January on Moody’s five-point scale, in which 1 denotes the strongest investor protections and 5 the weakest.

    chif if I officially am telling folks DO NOT put junk in your trunk

  51. Bystander says:

    #37 Fast,

    We both know it will never happen. There is no turning back now. The government will never make it harder to buy a home, simply bc banking and NAR wolfpacks will scream bloody murder. Should I be competing at 41 against a 28 year old for same 500k house? No way. I saved 100k and he has 30k
    but govt. will make sure I do. It will explode and then change.

  52. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    [17] nwnj

    That move is to preempt what I predicted, which was that a lot of people would be classified as “managers” to get around OT requirements.

  53. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    [19] street,

    No such list but many state DORs keep statistics on taxpayers and you can sort of glean from that at a macro level. For example, when MD imposed a “millionaires” tax years ago, it was expected to hit X taxpayers and bring in Y dollars. But when the stats for that year were compiled, there were thousands less taxpayers in group X, and the dollars brought in from group X were actually -Y.

    Conservatives point to this as evidence of tax flight. Liberals dispute it. It cannot be exact but the tax economics of MD actually support the conservative view because most income for that cohort comes from the DC area. Very easy to shift DC income from MD to VA. Other income was simply deferred or recognized elsewhere.

    In NJ, it would not be as simple to make that sort of diversion except to PA.

  54. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    [49] gator,

    Gee, who could have seen that coming?

    Seriously, besides Canning, the big loser is her sugar daddy, Inglesino. If I were Sean Canning, I’d sit in the back of public meetings in Parsippany and elsewhere to see him get raked over the coals.

  55. Ottoman says:

    Good thing according to the CBO, Obamacare will enable 2500 people (using your numbers) to quit their jobs or work less because they no longer have to worry about staying in a job for the healthcare. Therefore the 500 will have plenty of options.

    BTW, the CBO said the 500 number was a guess–it could be anywhere from 1000 to 0

    “yome,
    If you’re talking about 600 jobs not making much and all requiring some assistance, and then 100 of them make more and require zero assistance, but the other 500 are now making 0 … will they not require MORE assistance than they were previously? At best, a zero sum difference net-net.”

  56. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    Upon further deliberation, in a country that will tune in for Hollywood Hillbillies and Honey Boo Boo, and give money to that Confessions of a Shopaholic twit, Rachel may just make out Kardashian style.

    More likely, she winds up with a “position” in Inglesino’s firm. We’ll let JJ weigh in on the duties of that position.

  57. Ottoman says:

    Wonder if Ayn Rand would have been successful if she had emigrated to a libertarian paradise like Somalia instead of marrying for US citizenship and protections.

    “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”

  58. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    I’m putting down a mental reminder to myself to google these people in 5-6 years so I can get the details of Inglesino’s nasty divorce and new live-in girlfriend whose 18 years his junior.

  59. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    [62] ottoman

    Couldn’t tell you comrade, but the expats are going somewhere other than here and one supposes they did their research.

    I was encouraged to consider Ghana. I was informed I could live like a king there. In fact, one dutch expat is a king there.

  60. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    [53] wicked

    Ugh, I’m stupider for having read that. We’re better off reading anon tweets.

    Gotta go use some mental floss and get that out of my head before I hit the salt mines.

  61. joyce says:

    Was the 2500 just a guess too?

    Ottoman says:
    March 12, 2014 at 1:45 pm
    Good thing according to the CBO, Obamacare will enable 2500 people (using your numbers) to quit their jobs or work less because they no longer have to worry about staying in a job for the healthcare. Therefore the 500 will have plenty of options.

    BTW, the CBO said the 500 number was a guess–it could be anywhere from 1000 to 0

    “yome,
    If you’re talking about 600 jobs not making much and all requiring some assistance, and then 100 of them make more and require zero assistance, but the other 500 are now making 0 … will they not require MORE assistance than they were previously? At best, a zero sum difference net-net.”

  62. joyce says:

    I’ll bite this time, cause you always pick Somalia. What makes that a libertarian paradise?

    Ottoman says:
    March 12, 2014 at 1:48 pm
    Wonder if Ayn Rand would have been successful if she had emigrated to a libertarian paradise like Somalia instead of marrying for US citizenship and protections.

    “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”

  63. Fast Eddie says:

    Ottoman,

    What percentage of your post tax income do you contribute to the poor victims of a competitive society?

  64. Libturd in the City says:

    About that 2-year old serving as a mule for his dad. I bet he knew not to touch the merch long before he knew how to walk and talk.

  65. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Canning returns home, HAHAHAHAHA hope all the degrading positions with your friends lawyer daddy were worth it.

    Bet she was kicked to the curb by that slime ball when there was no potential paycheck

  66. Street Justice says:

    Connecticut Cop Suspended, Under Investigation For Disturbing Comment To Gun Owner

    http://universalfreepress.com/connecticut-cop-suspended-under-investigation-for-disturbing-comment-to-gun-owner/

  67. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    I had to pop back for this. It is fcuking priceless!!!!

    http://www.ijreview.com/2014/03/120453-comedian-chelsea-handler-piers-morgan-youre-terrible-interviewer/

    THAT’S how to abuse a gooner.

  68. Chris Cartman Christie says:

    Guns, blah, blah, blah. 2nd Amendment blah blah. Crime blah blah.

    The unspoken issue that undermines the difference of gun control is this one, and everyone avoids it.

    Jim Crow. Jim Crow laws made it illegal for blacks to own guns in many southern jurisdiction. Only whites could own guns. They made sure they owned just in case the blacks went “whitey on the moon” on them.

    Prohibition and the Depression. Both set up crime waves by mainly recent immigrants (read eye-tilians and other catholic drunkards- read irish), with many innocent by-standers killed. This was the push for tough gun control laws in big cities and crowded states.

    Yes, people need guns for hunting and other miscellaneous things. However, as long as both sides don’t take a deep look into their psyche and how it relates to their positions resolving this issue is going nowhere.

  69. Ragnar says:

    Ottoman and his bedfellows are so blinded by the strawman Ayn Rand they created in their fevered imaginations to bizzarely connect to conservatives (who she hated – she went out of her way to recommend voting against Reagan, btw) they cannot understand anything she actually wrote.
    http://campus.aynrand.org/more/selected-full-essays/#nature-of-government

    Anyone willing to put forth mental effort can see for themselves that Somalia is as far from her principles of government as is North Korea.

    So tell me Ottoman, how is Somalia ruled by the following principles?

    “The precondition of a civilized society is the barring of physical force from social relationships—thus establishing the principle that if men wish to deal with one another, they may do so only by means of reason: by discussion, persuasion and voluntary, uncoerced agreement.

    The necessary consequence of man’s right to life is his right to self-defense. In a civilized society, force may be used only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use.
    If physical force is to be barred from social relationships, men need an institution charged with the task of protecting their rights under an objective code of rules.
    The proper functions of a government fall into three broad categories, all of them involving the issues of physical force and the protection of men’s rights: the police, to protect men from criminals—the armed services, to protect men from foreign invaders—the law courts, to settle disputes among men according to objective laws.”

  70. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    [74] ragnar,

    I’m much less stressed now that I stopped feeding the trolls.

    Side note: Met a Threeper yesterday in a coffee shop. Not sure I ever met one before. Will disappoint anon and ottoman to know that he didn’t have horns and a satanish red hue.

  71. Ben says:

    rofl, a few days later, Rachel ends up moving back in with her parents. Kinda reminds me of the “I’m running away mom” line I heard my old neighbors kid scream one day. She yelled back “just be home in time for dinner”.

  72. Phoenix says:

    70
    That’s just wrong.

  73. anon (the good one) says:

    @billclinton: My heart goes out to our neighbors in Harlem affected by today’s explosion. To the families of those who were lost, my prayers are with you.

  74. Street Justice says:

    Your right to own firearms has nothing to do with hunting.

    The proposed 10 round magazine limit bill in the state senate is all politics and we are the pawns. Sweeney, senate president, can propose the limit which will easily pass in the legislature. He looks like a hero, and it’s off to the governors mansion for sweeney.

    Meanwhile, Christie can veto it and be a hero to 2a supporting conservative Republicans. Then it’s off to the whitehouse for Christie.

    I’m sure Christie and Sweeney know what they’re doing and we are all fooled into pulling the lever for “our guy” at the voting booth.

    Chris Cartman Christie says:
    March 12, 2014 at 3:54 pm
    Guns, blah, blah, blah. 2nd Amendment blah blah. Crime blah blah.

    The unspoken issue that undermines the difference of gun control is this one, and everyone avoids it.

    Jim Crow. Jim Crow laws made it illegal for blacks to own guns in many southern jurisdiction. Only whites could own guns. They made sure they owned just in case the blacks went “whitey on the moon” on them.

    Prohibition and the Depression. Both set up crime waves by mainly recent immigrants (read eye-tilians and other catholic drunkards- read irish), with many innocent by-standers killed. This was the push for tough gun control laws in big cities and crowded states.

    Yes, people need guns for hunting and other miscellaneous things. However, as long as both sides don’t take a deep look into their psyche and how it relates to their positions resolving this issue resolving this issue is going nowhere.

  75. Anon E. Moose says:

    Nom [63];

    Here’s the bright side for Inglesino — after Canning insinuated her father was ‘inappropriately affectionate’ just 72 hours or so before she went running back home, her credibility is shot. Who would possibly believe her if she now said she and Inglesino hid the salami?

  76. JJ says:

    First of all I am still trying to figure out what Revis signing with pats and Decker signing wtih Jets means to me. I cant concentrate on real estate yet

  77. anon (the good one) says:

    JJ,
    what you gonna do with this year bonus?

  78. Piers bitch-slapped by Chelsea Handler.

    The Piers-gluteus human centipede can’t be far behind.

  79. Comrade Nom Deplume, back as Captain Justice says:

    [80] moose

    Possibly, but given the facts, which is more plausible? 2am beer pong or affair with guy who happens to be fronting 5 figures? Personally, I doubt it. But if you ask which is more believable given the circumstantial evidence, well . . . .

    On an unrelated note, I find that a not insignificant percentage of Media, PA residents seem to be adverse to bathing. Phew. Glad this is my last day here for awhile.

  80. anon (the good one) says:

    upward redistribution. that’s how we like it round here

    @ianbremmer: 57% of Americans believe US is still in a recession (NBC/WSJ). Horribly off base, yes…but the economy hasn’t turned around for them.

  81. Comrade Nom Deplume, back as Captain Justice says:

    [81] JJ

    I think Revis to Pats is a wash. As for Decker, I hope it’s a bust but I don’t have a feeling for it. This time of year, I’m lucky if I can focus on the tournament.

  82. Fast Eddie says:

    anon,

    What do you do for a living?

  83. anon (the good one) says:

    how you guys doin this year?

    @nypost: Average Wall Street bonuses shot up 15% last year – the highest since 2008 crash http://t.co/fg2fDyW75d

  84. anon (the good one) says:

    am a Poet

    Fast Eddie says:
    March 13, 2014 at 9:03 am
    anon,

    What do you do for a living?

  85. Libtard in Union says:

    Anon,

    Wall Street employs 165,200. Those who don’t work on Wall Street number 150,000,000. So Wall Street numbers 0.001 of the working population in America. Why don’t you tweet this back to your liberal Gods and suggest they concentrate their efforts where it might actually have a real impact. Or are you just jealous?

  86. Comrade Nom Deplume, back as Captain Justice says:

    [91] libtard,

    Chattering monkey,
    Trolls to make himself feel good,
    But best to ignore.

  87. Comrade Nom Deplume, back as Captain Justice says:

    Oh listen my children, now please take your seats,
    I’ll tell you of anon and his handful of tweets,
    Though hardly a soul will find it worthy,
    All of his effort to make you feel dirty.

    ‘Twas the year of our Lord, 2014,
    When anon brought his odious views to our scene,
    He tried to speak wisdom but only spewed snark,
    Helped only by Fabius, who trolls in the dark,

    And failing at logic, he turned to the web,
    To try and convince us that freedom will ebb,
    Because of the wealthy, and all of their greed,
    And their hate for the poor, on whom they will feed.

    And so he posts tweets of that he thinks news,
    But it’s really the posts of some liberal views,
    To try and convince us that all things will be best,
    If we take from the productive to give to the rest.

    So I’ve borrowed from Longfellow, this meter and rhyme,
    And only because I have a little free time,
    To pick on this fellow who says he’s a poet,
    But so am I, though I didn’t quite know it.

  88. joyce says:

    4Q 2013 GDP was $17.081 trillion. One year ago it was $16.420 trillion. That is an increase of $661 billion, more or less, which doesn’t sound so bad as it’s right at 4% advancement annually.

    However, The Federal Reserve added $1.112 trillion in credit (unbacked by anything) during the same period of time; that’s a debasement of the units in which GDP is reported of 6.51%.

    So the real change in the economy is in fact negative 2.51%.

    We are factually in a recession.

    anon (the good one) says:
    March 13, 2014 at 9:00 am

    @ianbremmer: 57% of Americans believe US is still in a recession (NBC/WSJ). Horribly off base, yes…but the economy hasn’t turned around for them.

  89. joyce says:

    0 for 2, hopefully this post is not moderated

    The U.S. Supreme Court has refused to hear the case of a Texas man whose home was subject to a no-knock, SWAT-team style forceful entry and raid based solely on the suspicion that there were legally-owned firearms in his household. In denying a petition for certiorari in Quinn v. Texas, the Court let stand a lower court ruling that essentially makes lawful gun ownership and possession grounds for police to evade the protections afforded by the Fourth Amendment and improperly penalizes and limits the Second Amendment right to bear arms. The Rutherford Institute had asked the Court to weigh in on the case and protect Americans against encroachments on their Second Amendment rights.

  90. joyce says:

    “Cash register justice”: Florida town so corrupt that lawmakers want to abolish it

    http://www.blacklistednews.com/%E2%80%9CCash_register_justice%E2%80%9D%3A_Florida_town_so_corrupt_that_lawmakers_wa…/33588/0/0/0/Y/M.html?morestories=obinsite

  91. Pete says:

    #92 and #93,

    So should I be ignoring the troll or penning odes about him? I’m getting conflicting messages here.

  92. Ragnar says:

    So here’s a hot topic only covered by the right wing twitter types. I could find not a single report in the mainstream press, about an Obama interview on latino TV last week, defending and promoting Obamacare:

    “This question here comes from a gentleman who says that, yes, he wanted Obamacare for a family of three. He says, “I make about $36,000 per year. The minimum amount is $350 per month. I think that’s too much for me.” ”
    Obama’s answer was:
    “I guess what I would say, if you looked at that person’s budget, and you looked at their cable bill, their cell phone bill, other things that they’re spending on, it may turn out that it’s just they haven’t prioritized health care because right now everybody is healthy.”

    I actually agree with Obama’s answer on this topic. I’m amazed at the luxuries poor people have access to in America. People with $200+ sneakers and video games and HBO getting food stamps and welfare, etc. I’m sort of shocked that Obama’s knee jerk reaction wasn’t to promise future ad-hoc law with more subsidies for the questioner. But he’s so focused on defending his baby that he forgot to blame the rich.

    Now imagine how much coverage the mainstream media would give a politician who responded as follows to a question where a person said they couldn’t afford to give up various public assistance like food stamps or welfare:
    “if you looked at that person’s budget, and you looked at their cable bill, their cell phone bill, other things that they’re spending on, it may turn out that it’s just they haven’t prioritized living by their own labor because right now government transfer payments are so easily available and more lucrative than the labor they have to offer.”

    Chris Matthews would call this a racist dog whistle, and so forth.
    But in the world of government-enforced altruism and leftist politics, where “need” is the only hard currency, what is the difference between taking away a benefit, and not providing free benefits?

  93. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    anon lacks smarts

    devoid of critical thought

    his retweets burden

  94. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Ragnar i would just say they are making a risk based decision on what is most important to them.

    Remember they are being penalized if through force into purchasing something they do not want or think they need. whether you, i or anyone else think it is a sound decision dose not matter.

  95. chicagofinance says:

    Not sure what this means. If you mean that Revis = Talib, then you have no right coming on these threads in Sept to Jan crowing about what a great pick-up he is (i.e. you know nothing about NFL football). He is a great player, but until you see him week-in and week-out, or in person, you have no idea. I didn’t see him last year so I don’t know if he is all the way back from the ACL, but he is at least Richard Sherman……but is more technique and body control versus pure athleticism. He is the intelligent guys’ shutdown corner……total balls…..he shut down Randy Moss in his prime with Brady in his prime throwing to him…..

    Comrade Nom Deplume, back as Captain Justice says:
    March 13, 2014 at 9:02 am
    [81] JJ I think Revis to Pats is a wash.

  96. Street Justice says:

    Wow impressive Nom. As an added bonus, I hope you billed one of your clients for the time you took to write that too.

  97. JJ says:

    The ten-year note is currently up 19/32 in price on the day, cutting its yield to 2.658% from an intraday high of 2.753%, per Tradeweb data. The 30-year bond is up 1 5/32 in price to yield 3.603%

  98. Street Justice says:

    Listen live to the NJ Law and Public Safety Comittee steal your rights from you.

    http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/media/live_audio.asp

    Bills:

    A2006 Greenwald, Louis D./Quijano, Annette+7 Ammunition magazines-reduce to 10 rounds

    A2777 Lagana, Joseph A./Mainor, Charles Firearms-defines deviations, transp.

  99. JJ says:

    Sure when he is healthy he is the best ever. With that comes his drama of holding out constantly for more money, will he or wont he show up for minicamp and injuries.

    Plus in real life he and Santonio Holmes are jerks and I dont like either of them.

    Day one I bought a Cromertie jersey. Guy has street cred, Revis is a whinny studio G.

    I picked up a pair of UD Giants PSLs today in the secondary so I am going to go to a few games over there this year. Kinda been lurking on line waiting for the Giants to have a bad year and wait till ticket invoices come out and try to buy. Got second row end zone PSL for face. Giants have a 85 face on those seats and I cant imagine losing money when Cowboys, Redskins and Eagle fans want to see games.

    Jets OMG ticket prices have collasped. But I have row one sideline seats which were hard to get. I am glad I am friends with Christie Upton who is Kate Upton’s sister who hooked me up when she worked for Jets.

    First game I took my buddy from Merril the entire trading called BS on my friend but we got field passes and Christie and Kate came by to say hi.

    I hope Giants can deal with me. I am a very very high maint customer. But putting me in second row is a good start as I only have one row to move.
    chicagofinance says:
    March 13, 2014 at 1:16 pm

    Not sure what this means. If you mean that Revis = Talib, then you have no right coming on these threads in Sept to Jan crowing about what a great pick-up he is (i.e. you know nothing about NFL football). He is a great player, but until you see him week-in and week-out, or in person, you have no idea. I didn’t see him last year so I don’t know if he is all the way back from the ACL, but he is at least Richard Sherman……but is more technique and body control versus pure athleticism. He is the intelligent guys’ shutdown corner……total balls…..he shut down Randy Moss in his prime with Brady in his prime throwing to him…..

  100. chicagofinance says:

    I don’t think Woody Johnson is so great, but there must be something to the fact he considers Revis someone he isn’t willing to pay…..

    JJ says:
    March 13, 2014 at 1:37 pm
    Sure when he is healthy he is the best ever. With that comes his drama of holding out constantly for more money, will he or wont he show up for minicamp and injuries.
    Plus in real life he and Santonio Holmes are jerks and I dont like either of them

  101. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    [97] pete,

    I never said I always take my own advice. Wasn’t that hard to rip off a poem and have a little fun trolling the troll. I won’t engage him though. Not anymore.

  102. joyce says:

    109
    Wanna bet?

  103. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    [99] pain

    Thats only 16.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7-2_gUuWK4

    (2:00 min. mark for you).

  104. Michael says:

    Guys, I think you have this part wrong about anon and other liberals. They are not attacking the wealthy based on jealousy or due to their own laziness. They are attacking the wealthy due to the fact that the wealthy have rigged the system, hence, giving themselves an unfair advantage over the rest of the population. It’s as simple as that. I know you guys are thinking otherwise, but honestly, this is the main reason for the attack on the rich.

    It’s no different from the conditions in France in 1789, that caused the French Revolution. The rich in France didn’t pay any taxes, the taxes were all put on the 3rd estate, which represented 98% of the population. A bad harvest for two years caused the prices of food to rise, the 3rd estate was starving, and had enough. The rest is history. The result of this revolution put an end to monarchies (kings and queens) as the go to form of govt. People finally realized that they should not be governed by a monarchy, that they were being taken advantage by a ruling class, who claimed divine right ( the right to rule came from god) as the basis for their leadership. The king lives in the castle, while the peasants live in wooden shacks, working the fields, and going to war for the kings. How could these peasants support this system of government for so long? Were they idiots? Why?

    This is exactly what people are doing today, when they support the wealthy. I’m talking about the support of the top 2%, by people not included in the top 2%. The top 2% are taking advantage of the rest of society, yet have the support of these same people they are taking advantage of. Try to figure that one out, I give up. So I come to this board and ask the individuals that are not in the top 2%, why do you support the top 2% and their corrupted policies, meant to maintain their position of power over the rest of the population?

    “To try and convince us that all things will be best,
    If we take from the productive to give to the rest.”

  105. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Nom my inability to count with two science degrees raises its ugly head again. Crap thought it was witty too now it is just a failure

  106. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    [101] chifi

    ” I didn’t see him last year so I don’t know if he is all the way back from the ACL, but he is at least Richard Sherman”

    Older, hurt, and probably can’t cover like he used to. Also, why did TB cut him loose? I stand by my call that Revis will ably replace Talib. Whether he plays the position better or worse, I can’t say–he is coming into a new system that is itself being remade and his style of play is different. Beyond that, you said yourself I know nothing about NFL football. This is true. But I haven’t seen your mug on NFL channel behind a desk giving analysis.

  107. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    [110] michael

    http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/43373-06-11-HouseholdIncomeandFedTaxes.pdf

    I fail to see the resemblance to 19th Century France.

  108. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    ack. Meant 18th century.

  109. Michael says:

    113- The highest quintile is almost equivalent in income to the other 3 levels combined. You see nothing wrong with that? I think that highlights my argument for comparing the problems and inequality of France in 1789, to that of today’s.

    Remember, France was the richest country in the world at this time. Everyone wanted to be like the French aristocrats. Problem was, the aristocrats were living so well at the expense of 98% of the population. They built the most beautiful palace (partied like no tomorrow at this palace) the world has ever set sights on. They were able to achieve this by totally raping 98% of the population. If 98% of the population wasn’t being taken advantage of, the revolution would have never come about.

    This is no different than what’s happening in America (wealthy countries in general). The inequality level has gotten so high that it is starting to create major problems for these post industrialized economies. If things don’t change, you can count on revolutions becoming the theme of the 21st century.

    Btw….. Of course, they paid the most taxes, they made most of the money.

  110. Michael says:

    113- Big corporations not paying taxes is any different than France in 1789? or hiding money overseas to avoid paying taxes?

  111. Michael says:

    113- That’s exactly what happened in France. The king setup a national assembly meeting to get the first and second estate to actually pay taxes. They said no, and he had no choice, but to put it on the poor or avg citizen of france. Problem was, they had no more money to give. If only the nobles would have helped their boy (the king) out by paying some taxes. Maybe the king would still have his head.

  112. Michael says:

    My point, if the corporations ( the nobles of today) would just pay their fair share, you wouldn’t have to raise the taxes on everyone else. Hell, if they could stop sending our jobs off shore, all for the sake of more profit for the people at the top, that would help our country out too. Seems to be that corporations are anti-american based on their policies of off-shoring jobs, black mailing local and state govts into not paying taxes, hiding american money overseas for the sake of not paying taxes, and last but not least, lobbying capital hill to give you tax breaks so that you pay nothing. So messed up, it’s not even funny, but keep supporting these hacks.

  113. joyce says:

    With your last two comments, you just outed yourself again. You complain about rigged systems, corruption, et al … and conclude, “if they’d only pay their fair share (i.e more), everything will work out.”

    Bullsh-t. The govt funnels the money to certain people, and THAT is the problem end of story.

  114. JJ says:

    Revis is 28 by 30 your washed up in that position anyhow. Look at Cromertie he is 29 and last season he already slowed down.

    IF Jets signed Revis to an expensive one year deal it eats cap space and Revis at best is a 3-7 point game changer. Jets run hot or cold. Last year Jets had very few tight games where a Revis preventing an extra TD would matter. Worse case he gets hurt right away and you wasted space.

    Remember, Jets traded Revis and the pick they got from tampa was Sheldon Richardson. Born November 29, 1990 and he is amazingly good. And much younger, sure totally different positon. But saving a to of money and geting a great play is a good move.

    I am interested if any bad team might take Sanchez AND Holmes together. Sure it would be a circus and one trick pony. But good for ticket sales and if it works out BOOM if not just give them one year money.

  115. JJ says:

    Revis better have no learning curb. He played in AFC east the whole time. And jets have a habit of picking up a recently release Pats player once or twice a season to learn their play book and in practice before big games like Pats one team minics Pats while other team is Jets in Practice. All he has to do is knock down the balls.

    Cromertie played Receiver a few times and said big deal instead of timing it so I knock down ball I catch it instead and run. He did a full special teams punt returns and people were like wow a new position running down field with ball. He was like what do you think I do on interceptions or when I am filling in as a receiver.

    Health and speed is all Revis needs to worry about. Plus Revis Island is called that because he basically covers the others teams top receiver. Think about this. When Jets played Bills Revis has identical job when Bucs play Bills or Jets play bills. He is not a QB or something.

  116. anon (the good one) says:

    @SenatorReid: A Koch Brothers Congress would abuse the political system to add zeroes to their paychecks while hurting middle-class families.

  117. anon (the good one) says:

    Nom,
    don’t let peer pressure get to you. who the fukc is pete anyway

  118. Juice Box says:

    It’s for the children.

    Hey Leon you turd the crappy public schools are why whites like me leave town.

    “We’re being hurt by increasing white flight from our school system [to charters], and we’re being strangled financially: Because of the [tax] cap that they put on in Jersey, we can’t even pay the amount of money that we will have to pay out from local tax levy, to support the charter school expansion.”

    “We are creating separate but equal school systems,” Hoboken school board president warns Salon…..

    http://www.salon.com/2014/03/13/christies_charter_school_nightmare_white_flight_and_they%E2%80%99re_bankrupting_us/

  119. Painhrtz - Disobey! says:

    Anon really falling into the Alinsky rules for radicals of denigrating your enemies well here you go

    http://www.kochfamilyfoundations.org/FoundationsDHK.asp

    i guess when you give money willingly but aren’t the right thinking type your an enemy of the state but Democratic butt chuggers like Buffet and Soros are OK.

    Seriously they all are bought and paid for

  120. Michael says:

    119- How did I out myself? Does not rigged system and corruption= not paying your fair share? Am I missing something?

    joyce says:
    March 13, 2014 at 3:16 pm
    With your last two comments, you just outed yourself again. You complain about rigged systems, corruption, et al … and conclude, “if they’d only pay their fair share (i.e more), everything will work out.”

    Bullsh-t. The govt funnels the money to certain people, and THAT is the problem end of story.”

  121. JJ says:

    New Jersey Property-Tax Bills Increased 1.7% to Record By Elise Young Mar 13, 2014 11:22 AM ET- Comments Email Print Share
    Save The average property-tax bill in New Jersey, which already has the highest in the U.S., rose 1.7 percent last year, Governor Chris Christie said.

    More than 80 towns, school boards and other local governments saw their taxes drop, while about 160 had increases of less than 1 percent, according to an e-mail from the governor’s office.

    New Jersey’s property taxes, which are collected by local governments, increased about 7 percent annually in 2004, 2005 and 2006 before the rate began to slow. Christie, a second-term Republican, has controlled the growth after enacting a 2 percent annual cap. Still, the tax climbed to a record of more than $8,000 per household, from the previous high of $7,885 in 2012, according to calculations by Bloomberg.

    “This is the lowest rate of growth in 24 years in this state,” Christie said today at a town-hall meeting in Mount Laurel.

    He called on the Democratic-controlled legislature to renew the state’s interest-arbitration cap, which expires on March 31, as a way to contain future growth. It limits the fees for arbitrators, attorneys and others involved in negotiating public-worker contracts.

    “There is no reason for this not to renew,” he said. “A quiet fight” from public-worker unions, he said, was threatening the legislation from passing again.

    To contact the reporter on this story: Elise Young in Trenton

  122. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    [118] michael

    The central thesis of your position, indeed all of the left on this issue, is the notion of “fair share.” To which I have two outstanding and as yet unanswered questions:

    1. What is the “fair share” exactly?
    2. Why is it “fair”?

    You raised it. Now back it up.

  123. Michael says:

    125- Pain, am I supposed to cheer for the Koch brothers because they are billionaires who donate? Just a little tip, they don’t donate out of the goodness of their hearts. Don’t drink the kool-aid.

  124. Ben says:

    This is the lowest rate of growth in 24 years in this state

    Earth to Chris, Yao Ming’s growth slowed at one point. He was still the tallest guy in the world.

  125. Theo says:

    If there was an objective definition of fair there wouldn’t be any disagreements. If I were a lefty, the best I would be able to come up with is an amount a disinterested third party could reasonably agree is affordable that is enough to support the government largess that the people through their elected representatives have created.

  126. Michael says:

    Fair share is not using the govt as a tool to take out your competition. Fair share is not paying lobbyists millions to push tax laws that will save you even more money(no problem paying lobbyists millions but problem paying taxes or giving your worker a fair salary. Fair share is not paying your workers so little that the rest of the population has to pay more in taxes to pay for your subsidy. Fair share is not holding state and local govts hostage by threatening to leave if you have to pay taxes. Fair share does not involve taking advantage of a community but helping make that community better. Fair share means doing what you are supposed to do. That means if you have so much power, due to the money this country made you, it’s your job to look after the community and give back. It doesn’t mean make your money here and then f$ck everyone else, I’m going to another country with my money where they won’t tax me. What a bunch of babies these people are, this country gave you the opportunity to make your money, and the minute you make it, you take the money and leave, because you don’t want to give anything back. I can go on all day about what it means to contribute your fair share. It honestly makes me sick how greedy and power hungry these individuals are. As Kennedy would say to these individuals,….ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country.

  127. Michael says:

    I’ll add one more to the list. Fair share is not raising ticket prices for sport events and then blackmailing the local community into paying for your stadium or you will leave.

  128. Ragnar says:

    Fair share is whatever would-be dictator of the universe Michael likes.
    It’s fair because he feels it is.
    He uses collectivist words like community and country a lot, and is anti-greed. He also doesn’t believe that wealthy people earned their wealth, rather they cheated, connived and extracted wealth from their communities.
    He sounds a lot like Chavez and Maduro in Venezuala.

  129. WestJester says:

    Note the subtle shift from the rich to corporations after the tax response.

  130. Michael says:

    134- Humans are supposed to work collectively as a species. Why is that a bad thing? Problem is it doesn’t work because of people with a certain mindset. They don’t know how to share and play nice. It’s all mine, you can’t play with it!….sounding like a child scolding other children for playing with their toys.

    Can I ask you one thing, what the hell do you do with a billion dollars? Why is it such a bad thing that people who accumulate this kind of silly wealth be frowned upon for their sheer greed?

  131. Waiting for jj to come back and explain what a “learning curb” is.

  132. Michael says:

    134- And nothing for nothing, they don’t have the following saying for no reason… “Behind every fortune there is a crime”. Our country rewards crooked business practices, it does not reward the good guy doing the right thing. So yes, there are some honest, very good individuals, who would help an old lady, in the uber wealth class, but that is a rarity. 99% of them have cheated their way, one way or the other, to the top. They beat their honest competition with sleezy business practices.

  133. Michael says:

    134- What do you think happens to a small community in Kansas when Walmart comes to town? Walmart sucks the area dry. Destroys everything in its path. How? The Walmart business model was never meant for places like this. The corporation wipes all the small businesses out with its low pricing. Replaces all jobs with low cost jobs. And then in a slow painful process, it slowly sucks the capital from the community until there is nothing left. You see, walmart doesn’t reinvest this money in that community, it sends the profits to its shareholders, who do not live in that community. This process slowly sucks these middle America communities dry. Hence, they sure as hell do extract wealth from their communities.

    ” He also doesn’t believe that wealthy people earned their wealth, rather they cheated, connived and extracted wealth from their communities.”

  134. joyce says:

    Are you missing something? Understatement of the year.
    Raising taxes won’t solve the cause of the problem; that is the point.

    Michael says:
    March 13, 2014 at 4:35 pm
    119- How did I out myself? Does not rigged system and corruption= not paying your fair share? Am I missing something?

    joyce says:
    March 13, 2014 at 3:16 pm
    With your last two comments, you just outed yourself again. You complain about rigged systems, corruption, et al … and conclude, “if they’d only pay their fair share (i.e more), everything will work out.”

    Bullsh-t. The govt funnels the money to certain people, and THAT is the problem end of story.”

  135. joyce says:

    How surprising is it (it’s not) that Michael can’t see the obvious difference in working together in a group voluntarily vs being coerced into it.

  136. joyce says:

    It’s reallllll simple. Take away the government’s ability and power to give money directly to people, indirectly to people, do favors, prosecute someone’s competition, and on and on…. and the problems, all of them… poof, gone.

    But then that wouldn’t leave much of a role for our current “leaders” now would it.

  137. Anon E. Moose says:

    Uh oh… just when he was starting to show signs of tacking back towards reality Michael got dragged to a revival meeting for KoolAid and ‘reeducation’.

  138. Anon E. Moose says:

    Joyce [142];

    That’s the solution. If you don’t want corruption, you take away the ‘product’ – government’s ability to redistribute money. There would be no money spent on lobbying is government favors weren’t so valuable. Michael, on the other hand, sees the solution o government excess as — wait for it — more government.

  139. Michael says:

    Joyce, this is right up your alley.

    “In short, the national debt, as destructive as it is and as badly as we need to eliminate it, is only the symptom. The actual disease is the modern democratic redistributionist state that grants favors, privileges, and benefits to some citizens paid for by others. We will reap the bitter fruits of what we are now sowing.”

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/mark-hendrickson/the-federal-debt-will-never-be-paid/

  140. Michael says:

    145- This is an interesting comment from that article.

    SteveD • 8 months ago
    Paid for by others? Hendricksen believes that if others have LESS, he will have MORE. This is outmoded thinking based solely on commodities based economics (the gold standard). Since 1971 the U.S. has been Monetarily Sovereign. The author has no understanding about sovereign currency issuance. An entity which has a free floating, non-convertible currency with all debts denominated only in the same said currency will have absolutely no possibility of default. By extension, Henricksen’s children or grandchildren will never have to “pay down” the federal debt. The only limitation to “out of control” federal spending is inflation. I am sure that Hendricksen, (who seems to love FRED graphs) can look up and see that there is zero link between federal deficit spending and inflation. As a side point, as deficit spending enters the economy, those dollars are taxed. Those tax dollars remove $$ (currency drain) from the economy in a proportion that actually prevents inflation. It’s simple math. Federal spending (adjusted for inflation) creates net financial assets (added reserves). Federal taxing creates net financial drain (on reserves). Federal tax dollars are essentially destroyed, becoming simply a drain on reserves. Federal deficit spending (remember, a federal deficit is “spending BEYOND taxation”), which is also a reserve drain, offset dollar for dollar by the “sale” of U.S.Treasury Securities which “soak up” excess reserves. Federal debt is a non-problem. However, private debt is STILL a very serious problem. Next time Henricksen, cast your fears and misguided outrage at that, instead of the non-problem of federal debt.

  141. Michael says:

    SteveD • 8 months ago
    The one kind of debt we are not worried about is government debt. That’s because governments have little problem paying it. They do not need to balance their budget with tax revenue, because their central bank can simply print the money. On balance, the overall public debt rarely needs to be paid down. As Adam Smith noted in The Wealth of Nations, no government in history ever has paid off its public debt.The problem is that “fiscal responsibility” is economically irresponsible, as far as full employment and economic recovery are concerned. less government spending shrinks the circular flow between the private sector’s producers and consumers. However, I find it mind boggling that the Great Treasury Raid of 2008 has continued unabated with barely any public awareness. No one is looking at motives. Let’s look. Motives of the .01% are: 1) make lots of money, 2) make government impotent and unable to interfere with the money making through taxes or regulation, and 3) consolidate political power by widening the gap between rich and poor. So, how does the .01% achieve a paradoxical objective like big government outlays for themselves and smaller government outlays for the 99% rabble? Bipolar economics. Use congressional minions to shrink government through fiscal policy and use the Central Bank to fatten .01% coffers through monetary policy. Have the same congressional minions continue the divide and conquer policy by pitting environmentalists against “business” with the lie that there “isn’t enough money” to do what needs to be done. This is not a .01% conspiracy, just rich and powerful people pursuing a dual motive – more dollars for themselves and less dollars for government services. It’s a scam of the highest order.

  142. Comrade Nom Deplume, back as Captain Justice says:

    [132] Michael

    I can honestly say that this was the longest non-answer to a question that I have ever seen.

  143. Comrade Nom Deplume, back as Captain Justice says:

    [134] Ragnar,

    That isn’t exactly the way I would have put it but in essence, that is precisely correct. Fair share is whatever the party in power says it is. It is not based in any sort of objective measure or metaphysical concept.

    Support for fair share in the guise of progressive taxation can be reduced to one irreducible sentence: You are made to pay more because you can.

    I defy anyone to provide a basis for “fair share” that does not have the prior sentence as it’s nucleus.

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  145. joyce says:

    It’s not that interesting if one has previously read MMT and realized that it’s wrong.
    Also:
    “look up and see that there is zero link between federal deficit spending and inflation”
    The CPI is not inflation.

    Michael says:
    March 13, 2014 at 9:25 pm
    145- This is an interesting comment from that article.

  146. joyce says:

    ‘through taxes and regulations’ is how they make their money, of course they dont want to interfere with those

    Michael says:
    March 13, 2014 at 9:29 pm
    SteveD • 8 months ago

    Let’s look. Motives of the .01% are: 1) make lots of money, 2) make government impotent and unable to interfere with the money making through taxes or regulation,

  147. 752039 34266The book is fantastic, but this review is not exactly spot-on. Being a Superhero is much more about selecting foods that heal your body, not just eating meat/dairy-free. Processed foods like those mentioned in this review arent what Alicia is trying to promote. In the event you arent open to sea vegetables (and yes, Im talking sea weed), just stop at vegan. 229352

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