Commercial and Residential Tax Appeals Swamp NJ

From NJBIZ:

With April 1 deadline looming, N.J. facing surge of property tax appeals

With many types of commercial real estate still reeling from the downturn, New Jersey faces a tidal wave of property tax appeals from thousands of weary, often cash-strapped building owners across the state. And it’s only likely to get worse.

Exactly how much worse will become clearer after April 1, the deadline for filing property tax appeals in most towns in New Jersey. But the backlog already is staggering: Nearly 44,000 cases were pending before the state’s tax court through last June, according to the annual report from the judiciary.

That includes more than 25,000 new cases that were filed during fiscal year 2013, a total that’s more than double the new filings in 2008 and one that has grown in all but two of the past 10 years, the report said. Half of those new cases came just from Bergen, Essex and Passaic counties — which have large concentrations of commercial property — while Morris, Monmouth and Middlesex each had more than 1,500 new filings.

Experts say there are no signs of a slowdown on the horizon. Frank Ferruggia, a McCarter & English attorney who specializes in property tax appeals, said the market for properties such as office buildings has not recovered to pre-recession levels — and expenses are rising as rental and occupancy rates remain stagnant.

“There’s really very little incentive for towns to reassess and reflect a declining market,” said Ferruggia, a partner with the Newark-based firm. “People have to file appeals and get their remedy, and those are not happening that quickly.”

Local governments are taking any number of steps to deal with the avalanche of appeals, Dressel said. They include trying to set aside extra cash in their budgets for settlements, short-term financing, reducing services and even raising taxes, he said.

It’s a perfect storm that is only adding to New Jersey’s backlog of pending property tax appeals, one that has been swelling since the downturn. Ferruggia said the state’s tax court, which currently has six judges, is “trying to manage their case load as best they can,” but the sheer volume means it can take more than a year to settle a case.

The state also is grappling with appeals for residential property, which are lumped in with the tax court data. But experts say those are largely handled by county tax boards, which hear appeals for property assessed below $1 million and tend to resolve cases more quickly.

This entry was posted in Economics, New Jersey Real Estate, Property Taxes. Bookmark the permalink.

93 Responses to Commercial and Residential Tax Appeals Swamp NJ

  1. Anon E. Moose says:

    Good Morning, Grim! Good morning, New Jersey!

  2. Fast Eddie says:

    Serious question: How is the housing market this spring? Is there a hefty lack of inventory? I buy the Sunday Record just to try to get a pulse and yesterday looked flimsy to me. I’m not as fervent about looking. Patience and solvency allow one to sleep at night. I still think a completed transaction in this market is just to pad the pockets of one at the expense of another. It’s nowhere near a normal market. I saw a cape online listed at 599K, laughed and shut the browser.

  3. Fast Eddie says:

    “There’s really very little incentive for towns to reassess and reflect a declining market.”

    When you’re a fat, bloated sl0b living off the public dime, it’s tough to kick the habit. Imagine if we can come to work knowing that a large portion of the work day is a hangout for 20 plus years ending with a pension until death?

  4. Pete says:

    #2, Anectdotally as someone who is actively looking I think you are right that the inventory is low. I keep a spreadsheet of the # of listings that match my search criteria and the number has barely grown in 2 months when a normal spring market should be seeing a steady increase.

    Also, there have been several instances of houses we have liked but they were in attorney review before we even had a chance to view.

  5. yome says:

    Why is home prices going up when inventory is low and amount of buyers is low? Does this mean there is really alot more buyers bidding out there that have the money with this low inventory? I dont get it. The media reports people have no money. Millenials have no steady jobs.

  6. Fast Eddie says:

    Also, there have been several instances of houses we have liked but they were in attorney review before we even had a chance to view.

    It happens constantly. I see it all the time. I keep asking myself, “Where did this one come from? How come we missed it?” It’s pocket listings. There’s nothing else to buy and the realtor wants the deal. The problem is we get to see the p1ss-smelling dumps who expect the same price as a well-kept house. You would think that would be at least dozens of dumps to choose from and that’s not even the case.

    I’ll say it yet again; people are f.ucked. They bit more than they could chew and they can’t sell or they’re in trouble and underwater. They’re making the payments but they are painted into a corner. They can’t sell.

  7. Bystander says:

    I signed a one year lease and will continue to rent. My rent has not increased
    in 4 years so it works. I can only speak to Fairfield County, CT. There is plenty of inventory when you get away from untouchable towns like Greenwich, Darien, Westport. I have 120 homes in my price range in Fairfield. Problem is quality inventory, priced right. There is almost nothing in that regard. Spring is at a halt. So many 2008 buyers wanting 50k more for nothing but hype. That is the inventory. Media and govt. desperately want fools to believe prices are good. Bubbble is back again. We should be at 2004 prices but very few are that realistic. Target is late fall..yet again. There are loads living in fantasyland.

  8. grim says:

    Also, there have been several instances of houses we have liked but they were in attorney review before we even had a chance to view.

    Counterpoint alert.

    How long did you take to view? I can show you plenty of no bullshit listings that never even made it to the first open house. We’re talking about full schedules of showings on the first and second days of being listed.

    Nice house, priced very well, it won’t make it through the first weekend.

    I’ve had clients that instructed me to make appointments as soon as I even saw a property hit the MLS, and call them, and they’d leave work immediately to see it.

    Usually, it’s the folks that wait until Sunny Saturday to go see a property that miss out.

    I’ve had folks cancel showings on me because it was rainy, only to be pissed off when in the next week the property went under contract.

    If you are like everyone else in North Jersey, 3/4 bedroom, updated, nice lot, quiet street, pottery barn paint, under $450-500k, realize that you and about 1000 other potential buyers get the auto email listing sheet in the morning.

  9. yome says:

    Low inventory is here to stay. There is no reason for majority of homeowners to sell. Everyone is holding on their low interest rate mortgage. Even when interest rates goes up,prices of homes will go up because of low inventory and it equals people wanting to buy homes. Just like what we see today.

  10. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    CNN posted something about bitcoin taxation that sounds salacious and surprising, and guaranteed to annoy bitcoin users. It shouldn’t. There’s no there, there.

    http://i.cdn.turner.com/money/2014/images/03/25/IRS_Notice_2014_21.pdf?iid=EL

    In fact, I am personally irritated that IRS devoted staff resources to a recitation of rules that are not new and well known to anyone who deals in barter or runs a business.

    So waste not your time on bitcoin tax stories. I want my five minutes back.

  11. Michael says:

    11- Lack of skills=Myth

  12. Pete says:

    Grim #8,

    You nailed it. I wasn’t insinuating that they were never made public, just that they are literally sold within a day of two of listing. I’ve adjusted and now view everyday and try to have an appt set up as soon as possible.

  13. yome says:

    If you can not get talent at low wage,reasoning tells you you need to increase salary to get talent. I agree with you

    Michael says:
    March 31, 2014 at 9:56 am
    11- Lack of skills=Myth

  14. Fast Eddie says:

    If you are like everyone else in North Jersey, 3/4 bedroom, updated, nice lot, quiet street, pottery barn paint, under $450-500k, realize that you and about 1000 other potential buyers get the auto email listing sheet in the morning.

    450-500K? really? I tend to see the smelly splits and ranches at 550K plus. Yes, Wayne would be an option but it’s not an option now. And there are still oodles more “pocket” listings and “inside” bullsh1t going on than not. The good stuff is held for who you know and what you know. The rest of the scraps go to the d0gs to fight over.

  15. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    I found a photo of clot. Apparently he joined the neighborhood watch.

    http://thebright.com/Military/guided-missile-launcher-used-unique-neighborhood-watch-sign/

  16. Bystander says:

    Yome,

    I would think there are 100s of thousands boomers who want to get away from 28k taxes and bone chilling cold. Many are trying to sell but want Y and Xers to fund their retirement while sacrificing their own financial health. That is impasse. 50% of homes I saw were empty or staged but not foreclosures. You would think these people want to move on..but no, greed is major issue. I deserve 6 times my 1976 purchase price.

  17. Fast Eddie says:

    I’ve had clients that instructed me to make appointments as soon as I even saw a property hit the MLS, and call them, and they’d leave work immediately to see it.

    I don’t have that luxury. The best I can do is after work that day. It doesn’t have to be a sunny Saturday as that was never the case.

  18. yome says:

    Bystander,
    I agree with you in that sense but if the house is empty and not in FK that tells you they can afford to keep on paying for the house. If there are furnitures in it,that even tells you they have the money. How long can they hold on is another question. But for now,it seems homeowners are able to carry primary or second homes with no problem.

  19. cobbler says:

    [14]
    Skills gap is in the head of the hiring manager and his boss. My company is trying to hire a ChemE with a very specific experience for the last 9 months or so. Had they hired someone with good aptitude, educational and work background 6 months ago the guy would have self-trained and been fully up to speed by now. Instead, endless whining that there are no such people in NJ.

  20. grim says:

    And there are still oodles more “pocket” listings and “inside” bullsh1t going on than not. The good stuff is held for who you know and what you know. The rest of the scraps go to the d0gs to fight over.

    Sorry, if someone comes to you telling you they’ve got a secret special deal for you and you only, but you’ve got to act fast, realize that you are the sucker at the table.

  21. Michael says:

    What is happening is that the number of employed and underemployed are acting like a ten-ton weight on wage increases. This, I think, is obvious to anyone. And because there are so many out of work, unemployment is like a sword of damocles over many of the unemployed.

    There is no skills gap, just companies that don’t want to hire employees at good salaries, and instead pile on the work on often overworked employees.

    But I wonder, how long can this go on? How long can significant amount of purchasing power can be wiped-out before those fat profit margins, largely due to job termination, also get shunk?

  22. grim says:

    And, as a seller, if the agent tells me they want to only market my property to their ultra exclusive stable of qualified buyers, and not make it available on the open market, I too, am the sucker.

    Traditionally, this approach isn’t new, but the use case was very specific. Very wealthy or public individuals who were essentially agreeing to take a lower market value in exchange for privacy. Also, homes where the seller, spouse or family member was bed ridden, essentially on their death beds, where the family simply couldn’t deal with the usual parade of buyers.

  23. Fast Eddie says:

    Sorry, if someone comes to you telling you they’ve got a secret special deal for you and you only, but you’ve got to act fast, realize that you are the sucker at the table.

    Nope. I wouldn’t fall for that line of sh1t. If it’s exclusive and you go to see the house and the house is nicely kept with more positives than negatives, it’s going to be in a price range. And that price range is going to be reflect recent transactions. One out of every 50 houses I step into has that criteria. The other 49 are dank, rotting sh1t h0les that someone is looking to cash in on using a ruse. There’s your sucker.

  24. Ragnar says:

    Mike,
    The only skill Krugman and his band of Keynesians cares about is propensity to consume and contribute to aggregate demand. He’s willfully blind all actual economic thought.

    Does this mean, according to Krugman, that Americans are optimally skilled already, and that there is no reason to seek improvement? I suspect on another day when the government seeks more education spending he will say that more government spending on education is essential to boost skills for the future, etc. Unless he’s such a Keynesian zombie that he no longer cares for anything even connected to economic production, and only cares about spending today on anything.

    As for the concept “skills gap” any time there is rapid change in economic structure, one could get a mismatch of skills. I don’t know what skills it takes to frak, but they are probably quite different from the skills required to underwrite bad mortgages. The ability to think rationally applies to nearly all productive activities, and I’m not sure how that is trending in the US.

    I do suspect that there is a price gap for specific skills. I think grim knows something about that. If you have two people with the same skills, and the one in the US costs $50k/yr to employ, and the one in India or China costs $20k/yr to employ, then that’s a price gap employers are going to react to. That’s life in a global economy. End global trade and we’ll have a second great depression.

  25. Xolepa says:

    Yome hit it on the head. Why should property owners sell when they have have refinanced to incredibly low interest rates, essentially offsetting several years of property tax increases. They will cruise until life events dictate changes.

    No one is selling in my neighborhood. Only one house was put on the market in the last 12 months and was under contract at full price, within a week. I think what is going on with the baby boomers ( I am on the tail end of that) is that they are holding off selling until the economy/housing market improves enough for their anticipated profit to be reached. That even means holding off several more years if need be.

    Than they, as myself, will get the he.. out of Dodge.

  26. Bystander says:

    #22,

    How long? It has been going on for over 6 years now. The arrogance of hiring professionals and recruiters still staggers me. I had phone interview at HSBC last week. I scheduled it a week prior but the HR person never called me after confirming she would. This time, I called her and she said oh you are a few minutes late so I can’t talk long. I informed her that she never called me as scheduled previously. Very arrogant but she liked my background and 15 yrs experience. The target salary 115k for lead change PM. I declined.

  27. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [23];

    What if the agent offers the seller 1-1.5% discount on the fee for a pocket listing sale at asking, since they don’t have to split? If the listing price is right, that’s just noise.

    My impression is that many sellers aren’t emotionally ready for a quick sale. They have reasons to sell, they have intellectually decided to sell, but they haven’t emotionally accepted the reality. They don’t have confidence in their price, so any quick offer is interpreted as a lowball. So they drag out the listing process until the pain of having the house listed, or the anchor that the house becomes on moving forward with whatever reasons they had to sell in the first place, overcomes their reluctance to pull the trigger.

  28. anon (the good one) says:

    @60Minutes: Michael Lewis says what high-speed trading predators are doing is “legalized front-running”

  29. anon (the good one) says:

    you won’t find predators more rapacious than in Wall Street

  30. grim says:

    What if the agent offers the seller 1-1.5% discount on the fee for a pocket listing sale at asking, since they don’t have to split? If the listing price is right, that’s just noise.

    Ok, let’s run through this one as a thought experiment.

    Assumptions
    1) Agents involved are experienced and tenured enough to actually execute this model as a business.
    2) Pocket listings are made available internally.

    Facts
    1) Average commission is 5%
    2) Average commission is typically split 4 ways, sellers agent, sellers broker, buyers agent, buyers broker.
    3) If you agree to assumption #1 – realize that commission splits are not equal.

    So.

    Imagine a situation with a 65/35 split, with the larger share going to the agent, which is probably typical for an experienced agent that does big enough business to actually pull something like this off, some better, some worse.

    So splitting the 5% in a pocket listing scenario with 2 agents and 1 broker, assume a $500k sale:

    “Listing” agent – 1.625% – $8,125
    “Selling” agent – 1.625% – $8,125
    Broker – 1.75% – $8,750 (Realize that this isn’t going into someone’s pocket, this needs to cover the business expenses and investment of the owners, rent, advertising, signage, insurance, etc).

    Given the listing and selling agents are looking at commissions exactly the same as an open market listing, why should they cut commission, listing agent brought the property, selling agent brought the buyer.

    In a non-pocket scenario, the broker would only be making half that amount, so theoretically, they could cut their commission, but nowhere near 1.5%, at best you are looking at a discount of .875% in this scenario, and even then, it’s probably not realistic.

    So then what? Maybe a half a percent? Which is a big cut from the perspective of the broker, but minor from the seller’s perspective, $2,500 in a $500,000 transaction is noise.

  31. grim says:

    In a situation where everyone needs to give up a half point to theoretically yield an amount that would be beneficial to the seller.

    1) As the listing agent, I’ll take my chances with the MLS.
    2) As the buyers agent, if my client is that hot to buy, I’ll just show them another property.
    3) If 1 and 2 above take place, they’ll make more money than giving up a half point to do the deal internal.

  32. Street Justice says:

    Sure you can. Look no further than the Democrats in the California State Senate.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oJWp0kvUvZ4

    30.anon (the good one) says:
    March 31, 2014 at 11:08 am
    you won’t find predators more rapacious than in Wall Street

  33. Bystander says:

    Xoelpa,

    That next life event is death…

  34. Michael says:

    Proof that the stock market is rigged and none of the boys on this blog want to comment? We all know that the wealthy have no reason to cheat the system, since they already make so much money.

    Ragner, moose, lib, and others with the same mindset……For some reason, you guys refuse to acknowledge how the wealthy use their position and wealth for an unfair advantage over the rest. This 60 minute investigation, proves just that. Pensions, along with everyone else, getting ripped off without even knowing it. The writing is on the wall ladies and gentlemen. This is robbery, and of course it some how ends up as legal robbery, with no one suffering the consequences for stealing. Messed up beyond belief.

    anon (the good one) says:
    March 31, 2014 at 11:04 am
    @60Minutes: Michael Lewis says what high-speed trading predators are doing is “legalized front-running”

  35. Juice Box says:

    Well I am off to the Midwest for the rest of the week. 102 year old granny finally went to meet her maker after a rough couple of months.

    To get there with out dropping 3 grand I have to fly from LaGuardia to Philly to get a lower fare. No I cannot book directly from Philly since it is twice the price. F**king airlines..How the hell can a connection from LaGuardia to Philly make the flight 1/2 the damm price? And screw Newark, that is right FU Newark airport the armpit airport of the world. Now that I am closer to Philly I might as well make it my airport of choice.

    I am also not taking the connecting flight home either. There is no way I am landing in Philly at 8 PM then taking a 10 PM flight to LaGuardia to then drive 50 miles back home. I won’t check a bag that is all. I’ll ship my stuff home via the post office for $25 bucks instead.

  36. Ragnar says:

    David Stockman’s description of the market manipulation of the Fed and the fiat money manipulation of the Treasury makes these envious quibbles about high frequency trading seem an insignificant distraction from the real damage that our “public servants” have done:
    http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/2014/03/31/bubbleberg-news-lp-why-we-are-plagued-with-drivel-mascarading-as-financial-reporting/

  37. cobbler says:

    I am sure there are drugs available that could bring quick relief for David Stockman’s condition.

  38. Ragnar says:

    test comment

  39. Ragnar says:

    I’ve tried rewriting a comment on HFT many times, all just disappear upon posting, I have no idea why.

  40. Ragnar says:

    Michael,
    I think the system will allow me to post that your obsession with “the 1%” as the explanation of all ills, coupled with bipolar random thoughts, simply makes you anon’s more loquacious partner in stupidity.

  41. Anon E. Moose says:

    Michael [35];

    Ragner, moose, lib, and others with the same mindset……For some reason, you guys refuse to acknowledge how the wealthy use their position and wealth for an unfair advantage over the rest.

    There’s that word again. Mush-minded leftists use it a lot, without ever defining it. How much is “fair share” to the tax man? What’s an “unfair advantage”?

    Listen, everyone presses their advantage. Unions do it all the time – the either feign or perpetrate violence to collect ransom for their higher-ups (pretty 1% there, to say the truth), and throw a few crumbs to the rank-and-file proles.

    The “poor” vote their pockets for more handouts because that is to their advantage-there are more poor than rich and can simply outnumber the ‘rich’ with the help of any convenient definition of ‘rich’ (you still haven’t answered how you intellectually defend yourself from the same tactics directed at you from the 2d and 3d world nations on the planet). “Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for dinner,” as they say.

    Why aren’t those realities “unfair”?

    Besides, even if the report is true, why get enraged about it. Yes, brokers are making piles of money, often in opaque ways. It doesn’t change the fact that decades worth of pension checks to grannies and billions if not trillions of real peoples’ fortunes were funded by investing in the financial markets. Was that just lucky for the last 80 years?

    I’ll take my chances with that investment strategy over the kind of leftist “investment” as Obama and the Occupy crowd uses the word.

  42. Ragnar says:

    The all-in cost to transact stocks is lower now than it ever has been.

  43. Xolepa says:

    (36) Juice. I don’t know which midwest town you are flying to, but consider: My Son’s MIL just flew from Trenton to Cleveland $46 roundtrip.

  44. Ragnar says:

    If anyone is being hurt by this, it would be “the 1%”. Guess who owns the most equities? For most amateurs, the real damage comes from within: overactivity, lack of diversification, lack of coherent investment strategy, overconfidence , and trend following behavior are what hurt most.

  45. anon (the good one) says:

    taking a brief break the next week

    it will be a time of pure relaxation – this winter was all wear and tear

    will return soon with a much invigorated effort to continue the never ending fight against the dark forces: regressives, racists, fukctards, teatards, right-wingers, free mkt fanatics, talibanists, fascists, slumlords, tax dodgers, self-righteous prlcks, doom & gloom proclaimators, banksters apologists, greedy baztardz, etc, etc, etc.

    keep an eye on twitter while am away

  46. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:
  47. Charlie says:

    If you travel light, Frontier from Trenton is unbeatable. To MDW is $150 less than flying from EWR.

  48. Comrade Nom Deplume, Guardian of the Realm says:

    [46] anon

    “will return soon with a much invigorated effort to continue the never ending fight against the dark forces: regressives, racists, fukctards, teatards, right-wingers, free mkt fanatics, talibanists, fascists, slumlords, tax dodgers, self-righteous prlcks, doom & gloom proclaimators, banksters apologists, greedy baztardz, etc, etc, etc.”

    In other words, everyone who isn’t left of the late Hugo Chavez.

  49. chicagofinance says:

    #1 my regrets
    #2 be careful…if you bail on the connection, the airline may have the legal and contractual right to fcuk you over and upcharge your fare…..

    Juice Box says:
    I am also not taking the connecting flight home either. There is no way I am landing in Philly at 8 PM then taking a 10 PM flight to LaGuardia to then drive 50 miles back home. I won’t check a bag that is all. I’ll ship my stuff home via the post office for $25 bucks instead.

  50. chicagofinance says:

    Why are you wasting time explaining non-news to the hopelessly inculcated?

    Ragnar says:

    March 31, 2014 at 12:59 pm

    If anyone is being hurt by this, it would be “the 1%”. Guess who owns the most equities? For most amateurs, the real damage comes from within: overactivity, lack of diversification, lack of coherent investment strategy, overconfidence , and trend following behavior are what hurt most.

  51. chicagofinance says:

    BTW Miguel…..the friggin’ 60 MINS piece describes the beginning of the end of HFT-arbitrage….

  52. JJ says:

    People who locked in super low mortgage rates or have no mortgage and perhaps won one or two tax grievances during real estate melt down or Sandy often are renting rather than selling near me.

    Rents have been up the last five years and rates still somewhat low. I would love to sell my place if I found a new place. But to be honest, tops I leave it empty 3-4 months as I could rent it for almost a 2k a month profit. Long term due to flood insurance rates as a rental property would not be able to do it for more than 5-6 years but that is at least 100K in rental income.

  53. Michael says:

    This has just come about recently. We don’t even know the consequences for this type of market manipulation yet. When the market has become so complicated that no one knows what the hell is going on, it’s time to realize that through complication, you are getting ripped off. I am going to get enraged with it because it is no different than robbing my bank account or pay check. It’s wrong in every way possible. The market is not supposed to be rigged, and that is why so many people are mad at the 1%, they are sick of being taken advantage of by crooks.

    “Besides, even if the report is true, why get enraged about it. Yes, brokers are making piles of money, often in opaque ways. It doesn’t change the fact that decades worth of pension checks to grannies and billions if not trillions of real peoples’ fortunes were funded by investing in the financial markets. Was that just lucky for the last 80 years?”

  54. JJ says:

    Name of issuer Ally Financial Inc.
    Industry Financials
    Security type Common Stock
    Expected size of offering 95,000,000 Shares
    Expected price range $25 to $28
    Offering type Initial Public Offering
    Distribution by The Issuer
    Expected pricing date 04/09/2014
    Indication of Interest Period 03/31/14 to 04/08/14 by (4pm EST)

    Remember when Chifi was wetting his pants over GMAC bonds going under? Ahh the good old days

  55. grim says:

    HFT pays plenty of North Jersey property taxes, be careful killing them off.

  56. Ragnar says:

    Chifi
    I sometimes enjoy correcting mistaken beliefs. It makes me consciously explain things that I already knew but may not have previously had to articulate. Of course not for the benefit of Mike, anon, cobbler who have repeatedly proven themselves closed to my educational endeavors.

    And even intelligent people sometimes buy into dumb ideas if they are repeated often enough, so writing the occasional explanation that may benefit the intelligent readers is like my version of public service.

  57. Happy Renter says:

    OT: Planning to take the family on a spring trip (late April) down south. Been to Charleston, SC a few times and enjoyed it, this time thinking about Savannah, GA, maybe hit the beach nearby if the weather cooperates. Anyone have any advice or recommendations around that area?

  58. grim says:

    Rag – You are bypassing moderation and going right to blacklist with those comments. They are being deleted and I can’t read the text to understand why. I try to limit the blacklist words, but sometimes they are necessary to block spammers. It’s likely nothing you are knowingly posting, but most likely a keyword or root in another word.

  59. Juice Box says:

    Thanks but TNN is $ 1,249.37

  60. Juice Box says:

    re: # 50 – yeah well unless they sedate me and put me in restraints there is no way I am boarding the flight from Philly back to Queens NYC.

  61. grim says:

    I fly united out of ewr quite often, and recently I’ve noticed that philly connections have been popping up much more frequently. I’d never noticed them in the past, and then I had and laughed a bit (why the hell would you connect in philly), two or three weeks, guess what, only option was a flight back with a connection in philly. Two and a half hour layover in Philly too, I could have drove home quicker. Late booking, but no way was I going to fly both ways out of philly.

    That and I’m noticing that the smaller regional options our of ewr seem more limited as well. I used to always take the 6am to buffalo, doesn’t appear to be an option anymore, or it’s always full, which I can’t really believe. Just a couple weeks back I had to fly through Washington to Buffalo, go figure.

  62. Anon E. Moose says:

    Grim [62];

    I was on a commuter flight from EWR to ROC once that was cancelled. I was re-booked through PHL, and they walked us through the gate onto a waiting bus to take us EWR-PHL.

  63. JJ says:

    The Eagles traded a Vick for a Spic

  64. Libturd in the City says:

    Grim.

    I recently flew to Ohio from Westchester through DC on the way out and through Philly (Dash-8) on the way back. I love those turboprops. So roomy, so smooth and the props put me to sleep. Plus the walk from the plane to the car at Westchester took 5 minutes. Some of the jetways in EWR take that long to walk down.

    Warning about flying out of Trenton on Frontier. Due to the tiny size of the airport and limited service out of TTN, if there is a weather delay, they cancel instantly. If it’s mechanical, expect to get flown out the next day or bused to Philly. At least when you fly out of a hub, they sometimes can get a replacement plane and shorten the delay significantly.

    Though, when all is running smoothly, flying out of tiny airports is a dream due to the ease of parking, lack of security lines and no traffic on the way there.

  65. grim says:

    63 – The bus has bigger seats. I wouldn’t mind, as long as I got my miles.

  66. grim says:

    Only time I was ever in and out of Westchester – I was out in Chicago with a client, when another client had an emergency and paid me to fly into Westchester and back to Chicago for a day. I think that Delta flight cost something like $1,700. Amazing real estate views on the approach and take off though. Never really considered it as the prices were always significantly higher than ewr.

  67. Anon E. Moose says:

    I meant to say it was probably quicker, too. We would have spent as much time driving around the tarmac on either end of the flight.

    Thing about Westchester (KHPN) is that it’s on the western border of the Greenwich ‘back country’. They put the airport on the border because half the people who would complain they can just tell to go skeru. Flown over and around it a bunch of time, but never put my wheels down there.

    The best flight is one that can’t leave without you; the only seat worth having has both an aisle and a window with a forward view.

  68. anon (the good one) says:

    wtf you two crackheads takin bout?

    front running is illegal regardless or 1% or not. and lack of allocation or whatever doesn’t excuse criminal acts by wall st. you right-wingers are all Law & Order for Newark residents. but are the first ones to excuse white-collar crime.

    chicagofinance says:
    March 31, 2014 at 1:32 pm
    Why are you wasting time explaining non-news to the hopelessly inculcated?

    Ragnar says:

    March 31, 2014 at 12:59 pm

    If anyone is being hurt by this, it would be “the 1%”. Guess who owns the most equities? For most amateurs, the real damage comes from within: overactivity, lack of diversification, lack of coherent investment strategy, overconfidence , and trend following behavior are what hurt most.

  69. anon (the good one) says:

    now, back to my well-deserved vacation

  70. Anon E. Moose says:

    Lib [65];

    The Dash-8 is rock solid and bullet-proof. I try to stay off the ATR-72 (Continental Express flew them back in the 90′s) during wintertime — know problem with ice accretion.

  71. grim says:

    How are the 98% impacted by HFT? Easy.

    HFT consumes the bandwidth they’d otherwise be using to stream Netflix and American Idol.

  72. grim says:

    Or, if you live in North Jersey, they have consumed a significant portion of old office and warehouse buildings, converting them into massive data centers, which pay big property taxes.

    Chances are, if you are a 98er in NJ, HFT has probably had a positive impact on your life.

  73. grim says:

    For example, the massive data center on Main Ave pays the City of Clifton a whopping $2.2 million in property taxes each year – this funds schools, police, fire, etc – all while having very little impact on the community.

  74. grim says:

    Or the brand new TELX NJR2 facility, also in Clifton, which advertises direct connections to SFTI, BATS, ARCA, and others.

    They pay the City of Clifton $642k a year in property taxes.

    I’d say HFT has been good to a number of local towns.

  75. Juice Box says:

    All U.S. exchanges are for-profit companies that the SEC allows to regulate themselves. They need to make money just like everyone else by selling data and access to it. Kill HFT and you might kill the exchanges themselves. How about we go back to the days where you had to call a full service broker on the phone and pay $100 or more for a trade, then some knuckle draggers in a pit would yell it out.

    Everyone want their trades cheap and we all want the data in real time. Somebody has to pay for it, and your cheap $6.95 fee to trade won’t cover the costs to pay for it.

  76. WestJester says:

    I always try to use HPN. Cheap to the Midwest mid-week $166 to MKE recently.

  77. Richard says:

    The biggest losers from HFT are the research and equity brokers. HFT firms make much less money than the Wall St firms used to. Equity commissions are way down at the big firms and have laid off loads of staff, the smaller firms are closing up.

  78. Richard says:

    Only NJ anecdote at work is a guy in Livingston that was offered 40k over asking if he took the home off the market before its first open house back in Feb. Another in Westchester sold his house to someone who knocked on their front door and made big unsolicited offer. Sounds busy, but around my way there are a bunch of apartments that were on the market all winter and are still there.

  79. Ragnar says:

    I don’t think this is actual front running. It is inference drawing and fast following. They are one of many noise traders in the market. A minimal problem for long term fundamental investors, and much less an issue than the standard trade 20 years ago.

  80. plume (16)

    Hey- it’s way more effective than the Zimmerman way of doing it.

    “I found a photo of clot. Apparently he joined the neighborhood watch.”

  81. michael (35)-

    We all commented on this about six years ago and then moved on, Einstein.

    Too bad BC Bob isn’t around anymore to give you the bitch-slapping you so richly deserve.

    “Proof that the stock market is rigged and none of the boys on this blog want to comment? We all know that the wealthy have no reason to cheat the system, since they already make so much money.”

  82. HFT is just another aspect of stock gambling that works…until it doesn’t.

    We’ll see how great these quote-stuffing algos “provide liquidity” when the entire market goes bidless. The flash crashes of a year or two ago were a nice glimpse of what will happen when all this crap reaches critical mass.

  83. Michael says:

    Wow, should have known you guys would be ok with white collar theft. Unbelievable, you guys are seriously justifying theft?

    Saying that you are happy to have cheap trades, has nothing to do with this. If anything, it’s about time these brokers stopped making insane amounts of money doing sh!t, sorry, I meant to say buying and selling stocks for clients. For how long were these brokers raping the buyer of stocks? Making tons of money doing crap. You guys would have been the ones supporting these stock broker earnings during their heyday, saying the stock broker deserves to make 50 times the amount the construction worker makes building skyscrapers. Of course you guys always leave out the workers role in most of these billionaire’s fortunes, but hey, that’s just the way it is. Thomas Edison hiring workers to invent things, then putting his name on the patent. Poor schmucks.

  84. Michael, your outrages are so numerous (and random) that I suspect they issue from a tube of Testor’s.

    Or else you’re just a troll.

  85. grim says:

    How is HFT not an evolution of how it’s always been.

    If you were rich in the late 1800s or early 1900s, you could afford to have a wired stock ticker. You got the data before the guy on the street, and could trade accordingly.

    Fast forward a few years, investment bankers and traders had access to real time quotes, average joe? You saw quotes in the paper the next morning. Again, someone had more timely data and had an advantage.

    Or you were a member of an exchange and were on a floor.

    Then computers arrived, and the public had stock quotes delayed by 30 minutes.

    Then the public got real time quotes.

    How do you get faster than real time? You start hacking milliseconds off the time it takes to transmit the data.

    Thus HFT is born.

    HFT is no different than a having a stock ticker when someone else doesn’t. Hell, I’m sure JJ could tell you a story about the firms that had the fastest ticket runners being more profitable than the ones that had lazy kids that only just walked fast.

  86. grim says:

    I know guys who write code that parses press releases and news articles, millions of pages of data from every corner of the earth every second. The equivalent of a million monkeys reading a million papers, and they use the data to execute trades, knowing that some idiot reading the paper will do exactly the same, only the idiot will do it a few minutes later.

    Is that theft, because they can speed read faster than you?

  87. grim says:

    What’s next, public outrage that for decades market makers profited handsomly on the bid/ask spread of the stocks they covered (and that the public traded).

    Don’t tell me you didn’t know there was a guy in the middle already taking your eighths as payment for making the trade.

  88. Ragnar says:

    Where’s the outrage that the Fed explicitly expropriates about 2 percent of the nation’s 7000 billion of savings deposits each year via inflation? That’s roughly 150 billion of money taken from the people by our government whiz kids. Apparently massive expropriation is ok if done by the government and mostly benefits government guaranteed bankers, and gets the thumbs up from tenured professors.

  89. Juice Box says:

    Re: 89 – as soon as you deposit it, the money is no longer yours. Read the fine print.

  90. 30 year realtor says:

    Pocket listing/agent manipulation discussion…banks and most reasonably intelligent people have figured out that permitting about a week of market time before responding to offers provides enough time for a realistic market response to a new listing. Last week I posted about a 3 family home I listed for $389,000. Of the 30+ showings the first weekend on the market, 7 of those customers were mine. The property is now under contract and I was not the selling agent. 4 of my buyers were willing to pay the asking price or more and I still could not control the outcome knowing what the highest offer was.

    This does not mean that pocket listings and agent manipulation don’t exist. Yesterday an agent in my office, Joe was complaining of an egregious example of manipulation. Listing goes into the MLS system on Saturday with no showings permitted until Monday. On Monday the property shows as being in attorney review. Joe called the agent and she told him he could show but only as a back up and he shouldn’t even bother. Immigrant agent, immigrant buyer, both from the same country…often a ripe place for this type of activity.

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