C19 Open Discussion Week 24b

From the Star Ledger:

Murphy hopes some N.J. indoor dining will reopen before mid-September

With the state’s gyms allowed to reopen with restrictions next Tuesday, Gov. Phil Murphy said he hopes to permit some indoor dining at bars and restaurants by the middle of next month as coronavirus numbers continue to improve.

Murphy was asked Wednesday during his latest coronavirus briefing in Trenton whether rumors are true about a Sept. 14 or 15 target date for the state to allow limited indoor dining.

The governor said he “hadn’t heard” that date but stressed “I hope it’s before then.”

“I hope that we’ve got some indoor dining before then,” Murphy said. “I’m not hanging my hat on it. I’m not trying to make news. That’s not a date I’m using at least.”

But, he said, “if data we look at stays as good as it is, I hope we beat that date.”

The governor also said it’s likely movie theaters will be allowed to reopen in New Jersey at the same time.

“My guess is, if I had to predict now, they will move at the same time, whenever that is,” Murphy said.

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125 Responses to C19 Open Discussion Week 24b

  1. grim says:

    I don’t even know what to say about that exchange.

  2. homeboken says:

    Grim – unintelly gibberish is what liars use when they don’t have the gift of eloquence.

  3. Juice Box says:

    This reality gets stranger by the day the NBA does a boycott during the playoffs, the whole county should have shut down by now. No? WTF is going on?

  4. grim says:

    The preliminary data about reinfection pretty much means it’s the end of the world, vaccines will not work, we will never stop sars-cov-2. As a civilization we will simply need to accept the death toll.

    Have a nice day.

  5. Juice Box says:

    I liked this tweet, I need “bread” too..

    Governor Phil Murphy
    @GovMurphy
    NEW: NJ will be submitting an application for
    @FEMA
    Lost Wages Supplemental Assistance Program.

    We continue to ask
    @realDonaldTrump
    and
    @senatemajldr
    to reauthorize the $600 federal weekly unemployment benefit that expired last month. We MUST support our residents in need

  6. Juice Box says:

    Yes. Grim the common cold is a corona virus too but the data you speak of? Is this the Hong Kong case, guy traveled to Europe and got reinfected? DNA sequencing shows they are different strains.

  7. grim says:

    And now Belgium and Netherlands.

  8. Walking says:

    Is anyone watching sports this year? With a captive population one would think that’s all we talked about here. I could be wrong as I was a casual observer in past, but I have no interest or care about sports now.

  9. grim says:

    Eye of a hurricane, listen to yourself churn
    World serves its own needs
    Don’t mis-serve your own needs
    Speed it up a notch, speed, grunt, no, strength
    The ladder starts to clatter
    With a fear of height, down, height
    Wire in a fire, represent the seven games
    And a government for hire and a combat site
    Left her, wasn’t coming in a hurry
    With the Furies breathing down your neck

  10. Juice box says:

    Sports was shut down for months and now that it’s barely come back they are going to Now kill their golden goose. I mean advertisers won’t pay without impressions and sales of merchandise, hope they like “bread” lines too.

    Then their is sports media like ESPN, the converted themselves into a video game channel, 12 hours of e-sports coverage of NBA 2K, Madden NFL 20, and Rocket League tournaments to fill the programming void left behind. What are they going to do now?

  11. grim says:

    Feel like half the people in the office watched sports because it fueled some of the obligatory office chatter, if you didn’t care for sports, you weren’t part of the morning conversation.

    Same thing on the sales side, sports typically an ice breaker in the convos. Today, sales very very different. No place for small talk anymore, nobody going to meet up for a drink. Teams, Webex, Skype, Zoom, Hangouts, Bluejeans, whatever.

    Also know lots of people that lived for the camaraderie of the in-person game. For tons of folks, it ain’t about the TV.

  12. Juice box says:

    Hey Gov Phil cumon Now borrow from the Fed already, they are going to take the losses anyway and stuff them in Blackrock to manage.

    https://www.nj.com/politics/2020/08/49b-public-worker-pension-payment-in-budget-is-not-negotiable-murphy-says.html

  13. The Great Pumpkin says:

    What is your point? I stand by that passage.

    Did you even pay attention to the discussion yesterday? We were talking about the future, not the present. By the looks of it, the Luddites will be correct one day in the future. Is that 20 years from now or 30, but it’s coming. There is going to be a day when most humans won’t have a job producing a physical product, they will only be needed for creativity. That’s why I brought up creativity yesterday with Essex.

    Vornado says:
    August 27, 2020 at 1:17 am
    6 months ago:
    Anyone who moves away from NY/NJ is a loser. They can’t cut it in the big leagues. Businesses leaving the area were dying anyway. Industries change over time. Some die off and are replaced by new ones. NY/NJ is in a transition period becoming a tech hub capital of the world. It’s all cycles. Think people. Use logic. Simple as that.

    Today:
    Technology will destroy us. The Luddites were correct.

  14. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Brought that up with tv yesterday. I don’t know what people are going to talk about soon to break the ice if they don’t have sports. I guess the usual weather line.

    grim says:
    August 27, 2020 at 7:51 am
    Feel like half the people in the office watched sports because it fueled some of the obligatory office chatter, if you didn’t care for sports, you weren’t part of the morning conversation.

  15. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Lol…you def earned it with how much you prob put in to it.

    Juice Box says:
    August 27, 2020 at 7:20 am
    I liked this tweet, I need “bread” too.

  16. Juice Box says:

    No sports then “Sports entertainment” – Wrestling, MMA etc. Gotta have the circus to go along with the bread.

  17. 3b says:

    Sports I like I would be talking to myself in the office.

  18. 3b says:

    4 plus billion to fund the pensions, and then they leave when they retire. Law should be changed, state pension, must reside in state. Could not happen of course, but the Dems are beholden to the public sector unions, the rest of us get nothing from the state.

  19. homeboken says:

    NBA ratings were anemic, part of me thinks this “walk-out” is partly to avoid the embarrassment.

    If I’m an owner negotiating a contract, I’m gonna have all these ratings #s at my finger types. Players and more importantly their agents know this.
    Boycott – and you can try to pin the horrible viewership on external factors. Play to empty stadiums and less than 2million tv viewers during the playoffs? You don’t want to be negotating your star power with those stats.

  20. 3b says:

    Murph wants to give every new born in the state $1,000.00,a down payment on their future!

  21. The Great Pumpkin says:

    3b,

    It’s actually only around 750,000 million for the actual pension. The rest is money borrowed that is now being put back in. Don’t forget that part.

  22. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    The NBA players are going to have a tough collective bargaining agreement coming up. The last one, they hit it out of the entire ballpark and even scrubs were getting paid tens of millions of dollars. Between them losing their CCP money with the Hong Kong fiasco, COVID, and now the activism, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the revenue fall of the side of a cliff, and the salary cap along with the pool of money available is going to drastically shrink.

  23. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Should have never taken a dollar from the pension fund, but that ship sailed. They took it for over 20 years and now cry about the bill.

  24. Fast Eddie says:

    Is the NBA still around?

  25. 3b says:

    It’s obscene the amount of money pro athletes are paid for what they do. Shows what people value.

  26. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    Is anyone watching sports this year? With a captive population one would think that’s all we talked about here. I could be wrong as I was a casual observer in past, but I have no interest or care about sports now.

    I considered myself a die hard fan for a long long time. We used to have season tickets to the Nets from 1998 to 2003. I remember watching all 82 games along with any game Michael Jordan played in. I used to regularly watch the regular season Sunday games as well. Then, at some point (10 years ago), I only watched the playoffs. I’ve watched the playoffs from 1987 to 2019. I only watched 1 playoff game and it was 2 days ago. I’m just not that interested.

    The political activism is really turning me off because I don’t agree with it, but moreover, I’d rather just not hear about it when watching sports. I don’t talk politics with anyone in person and I refuse to watch cable news.

  27. Grim says:

    Tiktok ceo resigning makes me think he was a puppet.

  28. homeboken says:

    I care about Lebron James’ political agenda just a bit less than I care about Joe Biden’s thoughts about the Laker’s defensive schemes.

    Back in the land of proper sports – Bayern dismantled the bracket in the UEFA Cup. Barcelona was embarrassed badly. I loved every minute of that.

  29. A Home Buyer says:

    Grim,

    Any comment on the “outsourcing” regarding engineering design services with buildings and construction?

    Has that picked up again?

  30. homeboken says:

    I am hearing the DNC message loud and clear –

    Give us power. Give us the Whitehouse, the House and the Senate. Do it in November.

    Until you give us power – Our party affiliates at your state and local level will allow riots, shootings and chaos. We will get our celebrity friends to stop entertaining you, our athletes will stop playing sports. We will not let your kids go to school. We won’t let you eat in a restaurant.

    In short – We will ruin your life for as long as it takes for you to give us power again.

    Tyrants.

  31. ExEssex says:

    It’s complicated. Democratic cities do seem to have the worst crime and a permissive culture of “wokeness”. Democrats eat their own. Yet unless you are wealthy or part of the relatively narrow interpretation of self than you are an outsider in the GOP.

  32. Juice Box says:

    Puppet of Wall St you mean.

    TickTok needs a US based IPO, 50 billion valuation and all. Bytedance is owned by Venture Capital from the USA. Kohlberg Kravis Roberts, SoftBank Group, Sequoia Capital, General Atlantic, and Hillhouse Capital Group.

    Again I like watching some of the Chinese stuff on Douyin (Chinese version of TikTok) but that won’t garner any dollars from US based companies advertising in the social media space today.

    Good stuff….
    https://twitter.com/HuXijin_GT/status/1298489796772282368

  33. ExEssex says:

    I find most people draining. Work “culture” is and has always been an absolute shite show. Home for many including the happy can be a place that also takes its toll. The 24×7 thing is challenging for a lot of couples as if marriage was sometimes challenging enough, my guess is that the lockdown will be a breaking point for lots of couples.

    I doubt we’ll be returning to normal any time soon. I doubt people will act the same way that they did before, but as a married 50 something I have been self isolating or spouse isolating for decades. We’re just not that social.

  34. ExEssex says:

    I wonder sometimes how any of the things we’ve come to rely upon actually work.
    We are seeing that in most cases things work, until they do not. Buckle up.

  35. JCer says:

    BRT, you nail it, I could give 2 sh*ts about what pro athletes think about anything. We spend money to watch and be entertained, I don’t take my politics to work and neither should they. The NBA needs to learn that this is a business and rule number one in business is not to alienate half of your customers. Go Woke…Get Broke!

    Much the same that I don’t care about celebrities views are on abortion, I don’t want to hear about their political views either. All of these things are meant to be an escape from life, please don’t bring the issues effecting the world into our entertainment. Serious NBA players are the biggest bunch of primadonnas, makes me appreciate the NHL.

    Grim on COVID and reinfection, this is why vaccines will be difficult. It will not be too dissimilar to the flu in that there will be vaccines and it will reappear. I view therapeutics and very important and I think we have dropped the ball. I know for a fact we have drugs that have shown efficacy against corona viruses. 15 years ago they did a test of indomethacin on canines for CCOV, they used 10 dogs per group, they had 100% success rate treating with indomethacin, 80% with plasma from recovered dogs, and like 50-60% with traditional antivirals. It also showed very effective in-vitro against SARS. This is common NSAID given to people with gout and some people suffering arthritis, it has fallen out of favor as it has unpleasant gastro side effects. It has also been used to moderate cytokine storms. We also have elderberry, which has wide efficacy against coronaviruses, they have studied it in chickens for IBV. If we could nebulize an antiviral and administer very early I believe we could bring the complication rate way down. All the data we have available from other corona viruses tells us a vaccine is not a sure bet, animals are a good proxy for understanding this disease it is zoonotic and animals, especially those used in food production have notoriously poor hygiene and are packed into crowded spaces.

  36. Fabius Maximus says:

    What this comes down to is Donnie will willingly burn down the republic to hold onto power. He knows that the moment he leaves the WH.

    The GOP as a party is dead. staffers from previous campaigns going over to Biden in droves. More and more moderates are making the switch.

    What’s left is WI where a kid goes from the front tow of a Trump rally to crossing state lines with an illegal weapon to kill two.

    This country is in a really bad place and Donnie is just fanning the flames.

    https://t.co/vYhRO2ttVN

  37. Juice Box says:

    Fab- your link is talking about lobbyists here, the swamp creatures themselves are jumping ship to what a bigger ship?

    Look like Hillary said Biden should not concede the election ‘under any circumstances’.

    Sounds like somebody is worried sleeping Joe is not gonna be called “Sweepy Joe” in the headlines on November 4th as in he cannot clean sweep this election, so they better go to court and challenge every vote, recounting hanging chads will be nothing to millions of envelopes that weren’t sealed properly because grandma or grandpa could not produce enough spittle.

    67 days folks…

  38. Fast Eddie says:

    Naomi Osaka, like countless other teams and athletes across the country, is walking out in protest of the Jacob Blake shooting.

    https://www.yahoo.com/sports/naomi-osaka-walkout-boycott-western-southern-open-jacob-blake-shooting-semifinal-014908552.html

    homeboken above said it best. This is all a temper tantrum. What are these boycotts going to prove other than destroying the corporations that employ them? If I was making the dough these athletes were making, I would STFU and play. But the real issue will remain and still, no one is talking about it. Until certain cultures raise their children correctly, install hardcore lessons and values, push education, the stigma and perception will remain and they have no one to blame but themselves. Go ahead, elect Biden and watch the media immediately confirm the issues resolved. It’s the absolute worst thing that can happen to the so-called victims, to be fed more fake news that the victims want to hear while the same issue remains.

  39. joyce says:

    The daily press conference Q&A format is quite frustrating. The reporters rattle off a few questions then the governor and others choose what to respond to; no follow-up questions are allowed. To be fair, he typically does respond to each question briefly but without the ability to ever ask a follow-up question a lot is left open and not clarified.

    grim says:
    August 27, 2020 at 6:00 am
    I don’t even know what to say about that exchange.

  40. Juice Box says:

    Eddie I had to look her up. A Japanese athlete complaining about racism in America? I don’t think there is a more xenophobic place in the entire world than Japan.

  41. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    The thing is, there are a lot of athletes that are great role models and do a crap ton for the community. You might have caught the video of Shaq stopping by the side of the road to stop and play with a kid while the mother was in a broken down car on the highway. He’s constantly in various communities working with children. David Robinson not only finished college but did his service prior to going to the NBA. While he was in the NBA, he was busy building libraries for kids to get involved in reading. Same goes with Steve Smith. Michael Jordan has been running camps for kids his whole life and literally just built a state of the art hospital in his hometown.

    They are a heck of a lot different than today’s athletes. First off, they are in their 20s, unlike guys like Barkley and Shaq who are old and experienced. Lets face it. Nearly 100% of them are college dropouts who probably faked their way through 1 year of intro courses. Most of them do not have the knowledge or experience to even frame an objective opinion on matters. That’s why they were all busy retweeting antisemetic crap a month ago.

  42. 3b says:

    Juice: And even after WW 2 they are still very racist. There is practically zero immigration to Japan, and a low birth rate, but they don’t care.

  43. SomeOne says:

    Juice, Naomi Osaka is bi-racial (Haitian father and Japanese mother), and not just Japanese. Her grandparents did not approve of her mother’s marriage (no contact for
    nearly 15 years).

  44. leftwing says:

    “As a civilization we will simply need to accept the death toll.”

    Think I espoused this idea while holed up in FL in md-March…..

    It’s a disease folks. People will die. Deal with it and move on with your life.

  45. SomeOne says:

    Eddie,

    Until certain cultures raise their children correctly, install hardcore lessons and values, push education, the stigma and perception will remain and they have no one to blame but themselves.

    So, how does this scenario look to you? A cop putting seven bullets into Blake vs. letting a 17 yo with a rifle pass by after he killed a couple of people play into this (and Fox portraying him as a patriot). Isn’t it somewhat like one “culture” getting to decide on whether some other “culture” is good or not when there is money and power at stake.

    Eddie, you don’t have a nice word to say about Obama, who grew from moderate background, became a constitutional scholar, worked in low income communities, went on to be a highly popular president. Yet, you glorify a guy who declared bankruptcies multiple times, had shady business dealings with foreign countries, cheated on each of his three wives, dodged the draft multiple times, has 20+ assault accusations against him.

  46. Juice Box says:

    Someone -So she is Japan’s Colin Kapernick? I did not see her posting anything about Japanese racism issues, as I mentioned perhaps it might not play well there with her fans and sponsors, who knows as things may have changed in Japan.

    Either way she is being “performative” in her activism. Nice earning $37 millon last year too…

    Will it kill the golden goose? Are advertisers going to pay for empty airtime or airtime filled with video game competitions?

  47. leftwing says:

    “Until you give us power…We will not let your kids go to school. We won’t let you eat in a restaurant. In short – We will ruin your life for as long as it takes for you to give us power again.”

    Blue state governors are slow walking openings for politics as much as Red state governors are rushing. As I’ve stated too many times, anyone who believes “it’s about the data” is naive at best….

    Tit for tat between Murphy and DJT DOJ is interesting…they had a budding bromance for a while…clearly politically motivated, it includes NY, MI, and PA as well. Good kick in the balls to two govs with the worst slow walks (NY, NJ) and two high profile Dems in swing States (PA, MI).

    Interesting how quickly Murphy looks to be falling in line…maybe we’ll actually get hard criteria for indoor dining openings….Based on the data, of course, lol.

  48. leftwing says:

    Hey Grim, not for nothing, but where did the secure connection go?

    Or am I just noticing no https for the first time? Wasn’t aware http these days was even an option, thought site providers defaulted to secure connections these days….

    You’re not in the pocket of some three letter agency, selling out the left and right on here before the election are you :)

  49. Fast Eddie says:

    Eddie, you don’t have a nice word to say about Obama, who grew from moderate background, became a constitutional scholar, worked in low income communities, went on to be a highly popular president.

    Sounds like he should be a role model for those in similar circumstances. When will they take the lead?

    Yet, you glorify a guy who declared bankruptcies multiple times, had shady business dealings with foreign countries, cheated on each of his three wives, dodged the draft multiple times, has 20+ assault accusations against him.

    Yup! I do! And I’ve never been more successful and reaped more financial reward for it! And because he’s not a p.ussy like Oblammy.

  50. Fabius IsSentimental says:

    Fabius,

    What do you think Putin wanted him in. Look up the Putin Interviews on HBO/SHO.

    Now, hold on to your horse. The big move will be by China going after Taiwan between Election Day and Inauguration Day as this country will be in severe social and economic upheaval. The likelihood of USA loosing the Taiwan fight is high, add to that the Russia and Iran will act up in their respective area militarily and all of them economically pushing away from USD/Treasurys.

    The one great thing is Trump and the Virus has moved to now, what would have occurred in 10 yrs were will would have been much weaker. All of these is the results of starting with Reagan and aided and abetted by the boomers moral and intellectual bankruptcy of policies relating to “the wealthy not wanted to be renters but owners of the society”. BTW – This line is from a 30yrs+ article on Forbes -when it was Malcom’s Forbes talking about Mexico and Latin America Society. The truth is that we are a failing country, a 2nd world country on an express train to 3rd world. The events of the next 12 months will show it.

  51. SomeOne says:

    Juice, may athletes have boycotted, including MLB and MLS. Even NHL had a moment of silence, and it is tied to the shooting of Blake. Boycotting games is a peaceful form of protest, and has more visibility.

    Naomi boycotting or not boycotting other events is more of a whataboutism.

  52. homeboken says:

    Pelosi just moments ago during a Capitol Hill presser –

    “I don’t think there should be ANY presidential debates.”

    If you don’t see how the stage is being set you are not paying attention.

  53. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    It’s their right to boycott. And, there are likely big monetary consequences down the line. What I want to know is are they going to be blaming the evil “owners” when they have to enter collective bargaining?

    Here’s the primary issue. Guys like Lebron, KD, Steph etc… get paid over 40 million a year. The existing cap is based on revenue from the past 3 years. When revenue completely dries up (No China money, no ticket sales, reduced tv ratings), the cap is going to have contract by a huge amount. However, your huge superstars already have their long term contracts written in stone. Who’s going to get screwed? All 6th men on teams who will have to play for the minimum because every single team is maxed out at what the cap was today. These superstars are throwing all their teammates under the bus financially and they are completely ignorant to that fact.

  54. SomeOne says:

    BRT, nothing that a couple of trillion of non-public, “small business” forgivable loans won’t solve.

  55. joyce says:

    “Yup! I do! And I’ve never been more successful and reaped more financial reward for it!”

    You’re glorification of Trump is the cause of your success? I thought it was hard work.

  56. leftwing says:

    “So, how does this scenario look to you? A cop putting seven bullets into Blake vs. letting a 17 yo with a rifle pass by after he killed a couple of people…”

    Cops have stood down in every instance of protest, which IMO is a grave error. Left or Right, neither should have free rein to run wild.

    Regarding the kid open carry is legal there, he showed himself to be no threat to the officers (approached them with both arms raised) and the cops at that time had no idea that someone was shot/dead or that the kid did it, ie there was no suspect. This is what you get when you demonize the police…they stand down, and there’s chaos by both sides.

    Re: Blake….here we go again. COMPLY. Cops were called to the scene for a disturbance. They and Blake interact. Officer pulls a weapon. Blake ignores the officer, walks away, and reaches into his car out of view of the officer who still has his weapon drawn on him.

    What the fcuk is WRONG with these people that don’t simply COMPLY? Especially when a weapon is drawn on them by someone authorized by society to kill them?

    I am so fcuking tired of these incidents being framed as evidence of racism. Yeah, there’s racism but not as you think. There are no videos of shootings of Caucasians, Asians, Latinx, etc because – wait for the punchline – when a weapon is drawn on them by the police guess what, they COMPLY.

    They don’t ignore the order and reach into a dark car. They don’t attack the officer and try to take his weapon.

    Jesus Christ, where are the fathers of these kids? When law enforcement has a weapon pointed at you, JUST FCUKING COMPLY. Why is that so hard to understand?

  57. Fast Eddie says:

    He opened the door, Joyce. He enabled my business and other businesses which also fed my investments and continue to do so. Don’t ask me for details, I can’t post them here but I can assure you, other businesses have taken advantage of the tax savings as well.

  58. Phoenix says:

    “The truth is that we are a failing country, a 2nd world country on an express train to 3rd world. The events of the next 12 months will show it.”

    And Trump or Biden/Kamala have what it takes to make us great again.
    Bwaaaahhaaaaaahaaa. Ha.

  59. homeboken says:

    Leftwing says – “Jesus Christ, where are the fathers of these kids? When law enforcement has a weapon pointed at you, JUST FCUKING COMPLY. Why is that so hard to understand?”

    As of 2017 – More than 7 out of 10 black children were born into a single parent household.

  60. chicagofinance says:

    I really enjoy watching the Mets. I wish I could go to a game in NY or Philly.

    I will enjoy watching the Jets.

    Walking says:
    August 27, 2020 at 7:35 am
    Is anyone watching sports this year? With a captive population one would think that’s all we talked about here. I could be wrong as I was a casual observer in past, but I have no interest or care about sports now.

  61. homeboken says:

    Correction – 7 out of 10 born out of wedlock NOT single-parent. Subtle but important difference perhaps/

  62. Phoenix says:

    “Especially when a weapon is drawn on them by someone authorized by society”

    I don’t remember getting a vote on that. Authorized by society to shoot a guy eating ice cream in his own apartment (because you were in fear?)

    Or Charles Kinsley, the therapist shot from a distance while taking care of a mentally ill man, then left him bleeding for 20 minutes, only gets 5 months with no criminal record?

    Or the jerk that arrested the nurse for not drawing blood, now claims to be a “victim” and is suing and is not sorry.

    Claim “fear” and light up whoever you want. I “thought” he had a gun. I “feared” for my life. Yup, good excuse.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Charles_Kinsey

    https://nurse.org/articles/utah-police-officer-wrongful-nurse-arrest-lawsuit/

  63. Phoenix says:

    “More than 7 out of 10 black children were born into a single parent household.”

    My body, my choice. Women initiate 7 out of 10 divorces. Courts make it hard for men to be fathers. Attorneys feed like ticks until they are engorged with money.

    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

  64. joyce says:

    Doesn’t sound like it had anything to do with your glorification.

    Fast Eddie says:
    August 27, 2020 at 12:14 pm
    He opened the door, Joyce. He enabled my business and other businesses which also fed my investments and continue to do so. Don’t ask me for details, I can’t post them here but I can assure you, other businesses have taken advantage of the tax savings as well.

  65. Phoenix says:

    “Jesus Christ, where are the fathers of these kids? ”

    Maybe they ran out of money trying to pay Cellino and Barnes to win a custody battle. Or more likely, just knew they were going to lose cause that is what happens. Walk away knowing your child will miss you and come back later rather than spend every last dime trying to win a battle where the scales are tipped against you.

    Can you just imagine how much Brad Pitt had to pay vs Jolie?

    Or a cute song like this, Make his pockets hurt.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzR771egCAM

  66. Walking says:

    Chi, glad to hear, but from others on the board I think the executives have brown stains in their pants, cause interest seems to be falling ( it was already falling with younger kids preferring to watch video game tournaments vs sports)

    One election 2020 comment. I think the send are missing a leadership opportunity here, Joe should be on the streets of Portland and Wisconsin, and Minneapolis
    ala a Rody G after 9/11 showing he is with the people. Joe should be out there to send them home showing swing voters he can
    calm the storm and lead.

    Me thinks he is scared the protestors will throw a water bottle at his head showing he really has no power over these guys.

  67. leftwing says:

    “Especially when a weapon is drawn on them by someone authorized by society…I don’t remember getting a vote on that…”

    Seriously? Don’t even know how to respond to that…I didn’t vote for the income tax….or for direct election of senators…or for firemen to fight fires….etc, etc. You want them to not have that authority, put that up to a vote.

    “Claim “fear” and light up whoever you want. I “thought” he had a gun. I “feared” for my life. Yup, good excuse.”

    No excuses. You make my point exactly – because an officer called to a disturbance in fact does not know the exact situation each situation must be treated as a threat until it’s not.

    And there is no better way to be classified as the highest level threat than ignoring an officer with gun drawn and then reaching into a dark car or attacking him.

    Mind boggling this is even a discussion point. Strip out the badge if it makes it more palatable for you. Run whatever scenario you want where you are the one giving instructions with a weapon and someone ignores, advances, and reaches into the back of his shirt. You more or less comfortable? Threat or no threat? I suppose you’d smile and shout out to your wife to bring out a couple iced teas? No threat there…he just wants to chill….

  68. No One says:

    Walking, on enjoying watching sports:
    Golf activity is reported to be way up this year. I’m hearing golf equipment sales are up about 40% and tee times sharply up. I have played more rounds this year than my last 3 years combined, partly due to improving to a 15HC and gaining confidence to play, and because doubles tennis got shut down for many months. I enjoyed watching some televised golf, especially after the long break. The match with Tom Brady was fun. I watch snippets of baseball as well, as usual, to track my team. I never watched much football or basketball, so they can go on permanent BLM strike as far as I’m concerned. Golfers surely will not.

  69. Phoenix says:

    “Claim “fear” and light up whoever you want. I “thought” he had a gun. I “feared” for my life. Yup, good excuse.

    No excuses. You make my point exactly .”

    It goes both ways.

    Like Amy Cooper. “There is a man, African-American, he has a bicycle helmet and he is recording me and threatening me and my dog,”

    So the hero shows up to find the crying “damsel in distress”, guy turns around with binoculars in is hands, looks like a gun, gets lit up.

    Went to wrong apartment-thought it was a break in. Light him up with the spoon of ice cream in his mouth. Oops.

  70. Fast Eddie says:

    Perception is reality. Change the perception and you’ll change reality.

  71. Juice Box says:

    And it’s back sell off everything the government owns that is not nailed down and some suff that is like the Turnpike and Parkway.

    Public Private Partnership ring a bell?

    “Leasing toll roads to private corporations has been proposed again, in a version that goes lighter on toll payers, in a report by the Reason Foundation, a privatization think tank. It dangles a $17 billion check at the state for such a lease.”

    https://www.nj.com/news/2020/08/nj-could-make-17b-by-leasing-turnpike-parkway-report-suggests.html

  72. Juice Box says:

    I don’t think Barney Fife should have bullets, give him the gun and one bullet in his pocket in case of emergency, in-other words send in cops for these domestic incidents and other routine police call-outs unarmed. Save the real gun play for when it’s really needed just like in the UK, they call in the proper shooters needed at anytime.

  73. Walking says:

    No one, interesting comment on golf. I never watched golf before but started to this year. I enjoy it now on Saturday afternoons as I prepare dinner for family and guests that come over. I’ll turn it on a leave it running looking up at the scenery thinking about what it would be like out there on vacation.

  74. No One says:

    SomeOne,
    Not sure why Naomi Osaka is interested in US politics anymore. She decided to take Japanese money and identify as Japanese for the Olympics, giving up her US citizenship to do so. I suspect her Japanese corporate sponsors don’t really care what activism she does in the US, as long as she wins and gets not overly negative attention.
    As a player she is very hit or miss. I wouldn’t be surprised if she has already peaked. Sadly like me in that she seems to be always either gaining or losing weight.
    What would do more for her cause – winning a tournament and showing people what a fine tennis player she is who happens to be black, or quitting a tournament citing genocide?
    Well, nobody pays attention to the Western and Southern Open, and after having to play 3 sets yesterday, she probably preferred to take a break from the heat and rest up before the vastly more important US Open starts next week.

  75. joyce says:

    No excuses. You make my point exactly – because an officer called to a disturbance in fact does not know the exact situation each situation must be treated as a threat until it’s not.

    This is exactly the horrible training/policy that needs to change along with a million other changes in the criminal justice system. Why do cops get to err on the side of caution to everyone else’s detriment (suspects, bystanders, children in the car, etc.)? If they hesitate and are wrong (i.e. not assuming a threat when there actually is one, few and far between as that may be), yes there is a chance for danger for them. But having carte blanche/impunity to never hesitate and potentially overreact blows the door wide open on the possibility that they hurt someone by mistake. I don’t understand why the latter, the status quo, is acceptable.

    Mind boggling this is even a discussion point. Strip out the badge if it makes it more palatable for you. Run whatever scenario you want…

    Without a cop involved, every other scenario comparing apples and liver & onions.

  76. Phoenix says:

    Good post Joyce.
    That is it in a nutshell

  77. SomeOne says:

    No One,

    What would do more for her cause – winning a tournament and showing people what a fine tennis player she is who happens to be black, or quitting a tournament citing genocide?

    She won the US open already and showed that she is a fine tennis player who happens to be black (and also someone that gained acceptance even in Japan). Instead of the expected “shut up, serve and volley”, she took a stand and it seemed to have worked anyway for now — the tournament paused all the play.

  78. nbanotprimadonnas says:

    BRT,

    So you know that LeBron is sending the kids from his academy who behave, attain academic performance metrics and other rules of the academy to college for 4 years on his dime ($100+mm). This is one of several instances where LeBron has but his money, millions of dollars of his own money, where his mouth is. You may not like him or his tweets, but promoting good behavior, academic performance and citizenship to kids without much and in return, giving them a college degree for free seems like a pretty good strategy.

    https://www.lebronjamesfamilyfoundation.org

    https://www.businessinsider.com/lebron-james-college-scholarship-school-cost-100-million-2018-7

  79. SmallGovConservative says:

    Juice Box says:
    August 27, 2020 at 1:04 pm

    “I don’t think Barney Fife should have bullets…”

    All of this ‘defund police’, ‘charge them with murder’, ‘take away their weapons’ rhetoric coming from the left (I think all agree on better training) is a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face, and ignores the most obvious way to improve policing — making public employee unions illegal. Defunding police/making their job harder will just result in more crime — see NYC. If you want to be able to get rid of bad government employees, be they lawyers, police or receptionists, you need to get rid of public employee unions. PEU’s protect bad employees — including bad cops. So the left’s police-related temper tantrums are meaningless as long as they keep electing Democrats who are beholden to the PEU’s ( I know that police unions occasionally support Reps, but that’s not the norm).

  80. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    I think LeBron is a good role model. I also think he’s incredibly arrogant and hypocritical.

  81. JCer says:

    Juice, they were taking this guy in on a warrant. No gun he would have stabbed the officers, think about this apparently this guy was tased and kept coming, was shot 7 times and lived. First what was this guy on second what kind of damage could he have done with a knife against the unarmed. I’m not sure what anyone could expect, don’t assault the police officer sent to arrest you…….

    On the rednecks with guns, again it goes don’t assault an armed person, the minute you physically assault an armed person you run the risk of getting shot. Play stupid games….win stupid prizes. The governor of WI let things get way out of hand and his comments fueled the fires of the riots.

  82. JCer says:

    Joyce, has anyone walked up to you and whacked you with a brick in the face? Have you ever been shot before? Many police officers have, the kinds of places where cops are randomly shooting are places where this is happening. In Ridgewood NJ the cops probably aren’t going to shoot anyone but in Newark they are much more on edge.

    The answer is simple FOLLOW THE LAW, USE COMMON SENSE, Blake was ultimately responsible for what happened. I’ve had the NJ State police draw their guns on me(4 cops shutguns and pistols), you freeze, you follow orders, you make sure they see your hands you don’t argue with them you handle it later.

  83. homeboken says:

    Nobody is in favor of excessive police force or deadly force when it isn’t warranted. But criminals and cops are forced to interact and a predictable percentage of those interactions will go badly for the cop/criminal or both.

    As of today, do you think the average person is more concerned with –

    1. Getting shot by the police when it is not warranted?
    OR
    2. Having their car/home/business looted or burned to the ground?

    The police provide a critical piece of making a peaceful society.

    Defund or de-weaponize the police if you want. That will not solve your issue. If there are no police, do you expect bad actors to suddenly abide by the social contract? I don’t.

    Without police, I strongly believe you will get a much larger presence of untrained vigilantes, like the 17 year old kid in Kenosha. There are a lot of people that will not stand by and watch the mob burn down their livelihood. They will protect themselves and their property, with deadly force.

    So are you willing to trade police shootings for civilian shootings?

  84. Juice Box says:

    JCER – I was pretty specific, send in “domestic incidents and other routine police ”

    Too many people die at traffic stops and domestic incidents etc. This does not happen in the UK and other places because police use other more effective techniques to subdue and arrest.

  85. joyce says:

    No, I haven’t been shot or smacked with a brick in the face. Have you? I doubt “many” cops have. How are we defining the word “many”? What percentage? Very low given the number of interactions with the public. That’s the line cops like to trot out. ‘Hey, look how many traffic stops and other calls for service never end badly!’ Exactly, but that cuts both ways… We’re always told traffic stops are one of the most dangerous things cops have to do. Oh yeah? FBI says there were 6 officers who died in 2019 while conducting traffic stops. How many were conducted? Tens or hundreds of millions?

    I agree and always advocated following the law, never said argue or fight on the street. Following instructions at the time increases your chances of not getting hurt exponentially, but does not reduce it to zero. And if something goes wrong, and you end up hurt or dead… oops, sucks to be you. But let’s feel bad for the mental anguish the cop will have living with that mistake [while you’re dead]. In your story, let’s say someone nervously twitches or does so because their under the influence, why is death an acceptable outcome? What if one cop shouts ‘hands up behind your head’ and another at the same time yells ‘get down on the ground’… you’re terrified, confused and lower your hand to brace yourself down the ground, but uh oh, you moved too fast, or not fast enough, arms went somewhere near your side… shot by police, he was reaching for his waistband, furtive movement, whatever. Justifiable shooting.

    The laws and training need to be rewritten with a more balanced risk profile shared by police and those they interact with.

    JCer says:
    August 27, 2020 at 2:21 pm
    Joyce, has anyone walked up to you and whacked you with a brick in the face? Have you ever been shot before? Many police officers have, the kinds of places where cops are randomly shooting are places where this is happening. In Ridgewood NJ the cops probably aren’t going to shoot anyone but in Newark they are much more on edge.

    The answer is simple FOLLOW THE LAW, USE COMMON SENSE, Blake was ultimately responsible for what happened. I’ve had the NJ State police draw their guns on me(4 cops shutguns and pistols), you freeze, you follow orders, you make sure they see your hands you don’t argue with them you handle it later.

  86. Phoenix says:

    “As of today, do you think the average person is more concerned with –

    1. Getting shot by the police when it is not warranted?”

    I’m sure that guy eating a bowl of ice cream in his own apartment was in category 1 at the beginning of his day. If he was not dead I am quite sure that vote would change.

    I’m sure the mental health handler did not think it would happen even after he was laying on the ground but he was scared it might. And it did.

    I’m sure when you meet your daughter in heaven she will tell you how happy she was that the heroes who chased the car thief were able to get their man, although she thinks she deserves credit because it was her car, skull and brain matter that actually stopped the guy.

  87. SmallGovCon ATroller says:

    Small Gov Con,

    You should be for Defund The Police it truly a conservative not a con. At heart define the police means local control policy and fiscal control through the elected officials.

    Since Reagan and his War on Drugs, Clinton and asset forfeiture sharing and Patriot Act. The local elected officials have very little monetary control of Police Departments. The Chief is the one that runs it and all these financial incentives ensures that he does what he wants. Look at the gear. Once you have the gear, got to use it. The SWAT team now practice on minor stuff.

    Now take the above. Add monetary corruption. Add Dirty Harry – Feel lucky punk. And you have an undisciplined STASI. The old commie security agencies were despotic, brutal, but very disciplined because of internal mechanics. We like every 3rd world police state got everything ad less discipline.

  88. Phoenix says:

    Funny how they have plenty of money for everything, but many police forces in NJ do not have body cameras.
    That would be a start and a good one. Maybe buy them with a drop out of the 4 billion borrowed.

  89. JCer says:

    Death by police is fairly infrequent and unjustified cases are even smaller, yes we can examine procedures, yes we can try to use people to deescalate situations. Are mistakes made, yes the police are human, I think what happened to people like Philando Castile and Justine Damond were horrible these people were shot by the cops and did not commit a crime nor did they disobey the commands of an officer, in Castile’s case the officer walked which was ridiculous.

    Joyce policing in place like Newark or Irvington or East Orange can be scary, the news media doesn’t even bother to report it, it is mostly black on black crime which no one gives a d@mn about. Cops do get shot at, hit and have things thrown at them, most just avoid the worst areas and let the criminals own the street…..seriously.

    Home, I don’t know how untrained that 17yr old was, he shot some one was pursued by a mob dispersed the mob and took out an armed opponent at close range in the arm. Dude must have played a lot of GTA. It will be interest to see how that case goes why did the first person get shot and then what kind of people think it is a good idea to chase a heavily armed person who just shot someone in the head? The whole circumstance is ridiculous, the Governor should have had more control, we should not have riots.

  90. homeboken says:

    JCER -untrained was meant to be “untrained in the manner of law enforcement”

    The kid was clearly trained how to handle and discharge his weapon. He wasn’t a spray-n-pray gangster, the kid knew what he was shooting at and how to hit it.

  91. joyce says:

    JCer,
    Death by police is infrequent; death of police is infinitesimal. I agree policing in bad neighborhoods can be scary, and they can be shot at, hit and have things thrown at them. I don’t know anyone denying this. But just like we shouldn’t use anecdotal stories to condemn police, let’s not use others to make it seem like there’s an epidemic of police being shot or hit in the face with bricks.

  92. Juice Box says:

    JCER-re: “I’ve had the NJ State police draw their guns on me(4 cops shutguns and pistols), you freeze, you follow orders, you make sure they see your hands you don’t argue with them you handle it later”

    Cumon now….you are going to have to elaborate, there is no way you can leave that one hanging out there.

    Let me guess first you were going 70 mph on the Parkway on a summer’s eve playing Kenny G too loud?

  93. grim says:

    Hey Grim, not for nothing, but where did the secure connection go?

    Or am I just noticing no https for the first time? Wasn’t aware http these days was even an option, thought site providers defaulted to secure connections these days….

    Switched hosting providers, then some configuration setting got all screwed up, got ticked off trying to fix it, so I just shut it down.

  94. SomeOne says:

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/53941208

    Manchester United defender Harry Maguire said he feared for his life when Greek police arrested him last week as he thought he was being kidnapped.

    The England international told BBC sports editor Dan Roan that plain-clothed police officers, who did not identify themselves, pulled over his group’s minibus in Mykonos, threw him off the bus, hit him in his legs and told him his career was over.

    The 27-year-old said he tried to run away – with one handcuff on – because he had no idea who the men were.

    On Tuesday, Maguire was given a suspended sentence of 21 months and 10 days in prison after his trial on the Greek island of Syros.

    He was found guilty of repeated bodily harm, attempted bribery, violence against public employees and insult after arrest on Mykonos.

    He did not stop resisting?

  95. Juice Box says:

    NBA boycott off?

    insert joke here –>

  96. homeboken says:

    Tom Friedman – NY Times
    Joe Lockhard – Former HRC campaign strategist
    Nancy Pelosi – Speaker of the House (aka 3rd in-line for POTUS)

    All say Biden shouldn’t debate.

    The media tells me that the idea that Biden will skip the debates is a “right-wing” conspiracy theory.

  97. Juice Box says:

    Someone – He will have to pay his green fee.

    The Twitter mob says he was smashed drunk like most English in Greece and worse a footballer going to a club to hang out with hooligans? This isn’t 1998, too much video all the time and recipe for trouble and fights….

    BTW loved my vacation to Mykonos, Santorini etc….

  98. Juice Box says:

    Grim – Too broke to buy a Cert? Look I would help but ya know I am on the bread line these days.

  99. leftwing says:

    “Why do cops get to err on the side of caution to everyone else’s detriment…having carte blanche/impunity to never hesitate and potentially overreact blows the door wide open on the possibility that they hurt someone by mistake. I don’t understand why the latter, the status quo, is acceptable.”

    Joyce, look at you going all Punkin on me…taking my measured statement to the extreme and then arguing against that position ;)

    I never said or implied LEOs should have carte blanche, operate with impunity, or that shootings in error were acceptable. They are tragic. But they will happen. Just like the tragic outcomes of tens of thousands of innocents who will be slaughtered in DWIs this year, thousands who will die needlessly because of misdiagnosis, etc.

    My point is simple…when an LEO responds to a call he is already, by definition, in a risky situation. Before he even begins to address the situation he needs to assess the level of risk. Anything the criminal (NOT victim) does that needlessly raises that risk level puts himself at risk. Very simply, if Blake simply put his hands on the top of the passenger side door he would alive. The guy in fast food parking lot would be alive if he allowed himself to be cuffed rather than fight the cop and try to take his tazer.

    “Strip out the badge if it makes it more palatable for you. Run whatever scenario you want…Without a cop involved, every other scenario comparing apples and liver & onions.”

    Cute but meaningless response. We assess risk and react accordingly. You are comfortable snoozing on the 5:45p out of Penn with direct service to Millburn with your bag tossed on the seat next to you. You would never do that – hell you would never ride – on the Q train to East Flatbush at 2am on a Saturday…

    We constantly adjust our behaviors on the assessment of immediate risk of a situation. So do police. The difference is by definition their job puts them in an undefined area of risk every time. Doesn’t excuse the inevitable tragedies nor a subsequent death, but explains it and how one can help avoid it.

  100. leftwing says:

    Re: guns drawn and responding to LEOs…..

    I did (do?) sometimes enjoy the privilege of a heavy foot and favored performance convertible. Was visiting a friend at an event in upstate NY, mentioned how I got tagged for 100+ on the NYS Thruway on the way up, he offered to help. Turns out there was a trooper there he knew well. Had a really good conversation with him. In addition to getting the ticket (partially) fixed he was fairly adamant that my biggest issue would not be points or fines but it was not unheard of in that type of situation that a cop may drawdown on me. That was a shocker.

    Anyway fast forward and I had a similar situation in triple digits a couple years later. I pull over and this time put my hands on top of the windshield until the cop catches up and comes over. He asks what I am doing and I politely say with hands still on the top of the windshield ‘waiting for your instructions’. We go through the whole shebang, me confirming everything (license and regsitration please – they are in my glove compartment may I open it, etc). Before he goes to write the ticket he asks where I ‘learned to behave like that’ and I told him a trooper informed me, of course omitting that it was over a prior similar ticket. He leaves, comes back, says ‘thank you’ and hands me my ticket and papers. 14 mph over. Lol.

    Interaction is defined as involving two people, which means you have significant input into how the other party (re)acts……

  101. 3b says:

    Home of course if the Republicans suggested there be no debates there would be an uproar! She says Biden should not debate because Trump lies? Really ?? A politician lying? Shocking!! So Pelosi and Biden as politicians for decades can honestly say they don’t or have never lied??!!

  102. leftwing says:

    “Switched hosting providers, then some configuration setting got all screwed up, got ticked off trying to fix it, so I just shut it down.”

    Start a pool for who the black, unmarked van picks up first?

  103. joyce says:

    LW,
    …taking my measured statement to the extreme and then arguing against that position ;)

    Fair enough. If you strip out the sarcastic hyperbole, my point remains. Why do cops get to err on the side of caution to everyone else’s detriment? We only give this very large amount of leeway to cops (and I guess other politically connect people).

    Furthermore…
    My point is simple…when an LEO responds to a call he is already, by definition, in a risky situation.

    This is the original comment I was responding to and it is patently false per the statistics. Their training should not teach them to treat everyone and everything as a threat right off the bat. I would think entering every situation with this unjustified heightened-level of alertness / stress level could lead to unnecessary fatal outcomes (and I believe it has).

    I agree actions that needlessly create risk are unwise. However, sometimes accidents happen and mistakes are made by the victim (NOT criminal)… and the majority of society seems to think that the unfortunate and tragic outcomes when mistakes happen should be borne by the people.

  104. joyce says:

    LW,
    Also, I agree with this:
    We constantly adjust our behaviors on the assessment of immediate risk of a situation. So do police. The difference is by definition their job puts them in an undefined area of risk every time. Doesn’t excuse the inevitable tragedies nor a subsequent death, but explains it and how one can help avoid it.

    It HELPS avoid it; doesn’t eliminate it. There are instances, albeit rare, that even when doing everything right the police encounter ends badly. Police do not assess risk the way you or I do because the consequences of their actions will be different. It gives them a greater number of options to choose from. I’ll go with one of my favorites: if the penalty for robbing a bank was a $5 fine…

    PS. Small housekeeping item, Blake is still alive.

  105. Grim says:

    No it’s not even about the cert, I have the cert.

  106. crushednjmillenial says:

    Left wing, I also always have hands on the wheel and car off when I get pulled over and act similar to what you describe. I’ve been let go with warnings a few times, maybe partially because I treat the cop the way I would want to be treated if I was a cop.

    An officer friend told me best practices for getting pulled over (hands on wheel, cabin light on, car off, obviously radio off, etc) a long while ago and I have stuck with that over the years.

  107. leftwing says:

    Joyce, maybe we have common ground…

    “My point is simple…when an LEO responds to a call he is already, by definition, in a risky situation……This is the original comment I was responding to and it is patently false per the statistics. Their training should not teach them to treat everyone and everything as a threat right off the bat.”

    But not only is that their job, it is their reality. When you call 911 – summon a police officer – that is exactly what you are doing. You are saying there is an unstable situation here with people or property at risk. Please come, evaluate, and ameliorate. Have you ever called 911 to invite a cop over for coffee? Of course not. Hell, if you did you would be summoned because a risk did not exist. I really don’t see this statement as a point of contention…it’s definitional. Cops are called to duty when there is an unstable, risky situation. If you are saying – by way of statistics – that the chance of an officer being killed/harmed in the line of duty is some low number, I have no beef with that but it is not my point. Regardless of the outcome, or none, the only reason an LEO’s presence is being requested is because a risk exists.

    “…and the majority of society seems to think that the unfortunate and tragic outcomes when mistakes happen should be borne by the people.”

    I never said that nor do I believe it.

    The answer is simple.

    The perpetrator needs to COMPLY.
    And if the cop erred he needs to be held ACCOUNTABLE.

    In my view the majority of current society (or maybe just the loudest voices) want accountability but one can’t even get the second syllable of ‘comply’ out before you are being shouted down as racist…..

  108. The Great Pumpkin says:

    Powell is on the side of the bulls’ — Cramer calls Fed chief’s speech ‘incredible’ for investors

    https://apple.news/AGNJMHkEsSQ6kKjD3hR1Q7Q

  109. ExEssex says:

    e Chart
    For decades, a majority of Americans have been able to climb the economic ladder by earning higher incomes than their parents. These improving conditions are known as upward mobility, and form an important part of the American Dream.

    However, each consecutive generation is finding it harder to make this ascent. In this graphic, we illustrate the decline in upward mobility over five decades using data from Opportunity

    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/the-decline-of-upward-mobility-in-one-chart/

    The key takeaway, though, is that the starting point of this downward trend has shifted to the left. In other words, fewer people in the lower- and middle-classes are climbing the economic ladder.

  110. Juice Box says:

    re: cert

    Hook Line and Sinker?

    Grim I appreciate you making it too easy stop already…..

    Right now I need lots of criticism….

  111. leftwing says:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/us/kyle-rittenhouse-kenosha-shooting-video.html

    If the description of the first shooting is accurate the kid in Kenosha may end up with only relatively minor gun charges.

  112. SomeOne says:

    Grim,

  113. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    If you ran a candidate with a high IQ, you could literally call the opposition out on their lying in real time.

    That’s a lie, here’s why….

  114. SomeOne says:

    BRT, wouldn’t that lead to politicians twitter-bombing other candidate’s events and reduce the signal to noise ratio even further?

  115. joyce says:

    Like you said, we’re mostly in agreement…

    But not only is that their job, it is their reality. When you call 911 – summon a police officer – that is exactly what you are doing. You are saying there is an unstable situation here with people or property at risk. Please come, evaluate, and ameliorate. Have you ever called 911 to invite a cop over for coffee? Of course not. Hell, if you did you would be summoned because a risk did not exist. I really don’t see this statement as a point of contention…it’s definitional. Cops are called to duty when there is an unstable, risky situation.

    But this is still inaccurate. Even if we limit the population of interactions to only 911 calls (excluding traffic stops and non-emergency calls for service), people call and police respond to 911 calls for admittedly non-urgent and non-emergency matters routinely… such as a family BBQ in a public park where charcoal isn’t allowed (it was, and the video is hilarious, you’ll love it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh9D_PUe7QI).

    People call 911 when they do not need to way too often and when cops respond to these situations, I don’t think assuming it’s a violent or dangerous situation is warranted. Entering a situation in which one does not have all the facts does not automatically mean it’s risky… this is the misconception that is perpetuated by their training, unions, etc. Couple of random jurisdictions that estimate 40% of 911 calls are for “legitimate but non-emergency matters”:
    [I posted two links but I think it tripped the filter because the comment went into moderation]

    In my view the majority of current society (or maybe just the loudest voices) want accountability but one can’t even get the second syllable of ‘comply’ out before you are being shouted down as racist…..

    I never said that nor do I believe it ;-)

  116. Dink says:

    “If the description of the first shooting is accurate the kid in Kenosha may end up with only relatively minor gun charges.”

    Pretty close….

    BREAKING: Kyle Rittenhouse has been charged in Wisconsin.

    1st Degree reckless homicide
    1st Degree recklessly endangering safety
    1st Degree intentional homicide
    Attempted 1st Degree intentional homicide
    1st Degree recklessly endangering safety
    Possession of dangerous weapon

  117. ExEssex says:

    Trump to America “wut pandemic” ?

  118. Blue Ribbon Teacher says:

    No, I was talking about doing it on the debate stage.

  119. ExEssex says:

    I saw these guys in 1978….a couple of times.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKTBrgdQxNg

  120. JCer says:

    Juice it was the result of a road rage incident, my friend was driving he got into an altercation with an old lady doing 47 mile per hour in the left lane on the parkway. She called the police and claimed we were waving a gun at her. We calmly told the officers we had no guns and let them search the car, while we were face down on the pavement and we were on our way. In retrospect the police acted in a totally unconstitutional matter, but when you’re in your 20’s you are just happy you didn’t get into any trouble.

    I watched the Rittenhouse videos, those charges are clearly prosecutorial overreach. First in no way was any of this premeditated, second he was clearly attacked, whether or not it rises to the level of self defense remains to be seen, there was no premeditated intent to cause harm. The kid should not have been out there no doubt but an angry mob was chasing him prompting the first shot, then the second was when he fell and a guy was beating him on the head with a skateboard and the third was a guy charging him with pistol. Note none of these people were trying to detain him but rather cause bodily harm.

    Joyce being being killed on the job isn’t the only concern, police officers make approximately 70k visits to emergency rooms for injuries on the job every year. 36% of those are a result of violent acts, sometimes the injuries are VERY serious. If you attack a police officer you will be hurt at the minimum if not killed, that is the reality, given the kind of work it is and how officers are compensated there are practical factors at work, people are not exactly kicking down doors to be police in dangerous cities………..

  121. Phoenix says:

    “She called the police and claimed we were waving a gun at her.”

    Confirmation bias. I keep seeing a pattern. Guess it’s just because I am looking for one.

    Or is there one. I don’t know anymore.

  122. TruthIsTheEnemy says:

    Lebrun takes money from oppressed Chinese and stifles any criticism of the Chinese government. He takes some of that money and gives it to underprivileged blacks. What does that make him?

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