From RENJ:
Judge: State can continue rollout of affordable housing law, pending outcome of legal challenge
A judge has denied a request by some two dozen towns to halt the rollout of New Jersey’s new affordable housing law, in a move that seemingly allows state officials to move ahead even as the court prepares for additional arguments in the litigation.
In a ruling issued Thursday morning, Superior Court Judge Robert Lougy rejected the towns’ application for an order that would stay the new program and the accompanying guidelines from the Department of Community Affairs, pending final judgment. The court is now scheduled to hear oral arguments on Jan. 31 on a pending motion by the state and affordable housing advocates that seeks to dismiss the municipalities’ lawsuit altogether.
At issue is the high-profile law signed by Gov. Phil Murphy in late March and the ensuing calculations by DCA, which identified a statewide deficit of more than 150,000 low- and moderate-income homes. The calculations, along with individual obligations for New Jersey’s 564 municipalities, were the focus of the lawsuit filed by the coalition in late October, with officials in Montvale leading the charge, arguing the new law imposes excessive mandates without fully considering local conditions and resources.
The framework applies to the fourth round of requirements under state Supreme Court’s landmark Mount Laurel doctrine that has guided New Jersey’s affordable housing policy for some five decades. Importantly, towns and cities have until Jan. 31 to adopt the numbers or come up with their own, while those that devise their own plan are subject to challenges from developers, affordable housing advocates and other stakeholders through the end of February.
In explaining his decision on Thursday, Lougy wrote that the municipalities that are challenging the law “fail to demonstrate a likelihood of success” based on their legal arguments, while noting that the matter “presents issues of public importance and the public interest weighs against a stay.” He also wrote in the 68-page order that the plaintiffs “fail to establish any basis to stay the Mount Laurel doctrine pending disposition of this matter.”
Ah?
frist adn secodn
…with officials in Montvale leading the charge, arguing the new law imposes excessive mandates without fully considering local conditions and resources.
You won’t need to go to Paterson for your P-Funk any more. The parking lot off of Kinderkamack Road will work just fine.
Wayne is just as bad if not worse than Montvale. On of the highest in need of low income housing.
Wayne township Present need 162 units Future need 1,746 units..
Here is the data…search for your town.
https://www.nj.gov/dca/dlps/pdf/FourthRoundCalculation_Methodology.pdf
I also find ones like this interesting..
Hardyston township Sussex County….. Future need 1,622 units.
That is the middle of nowhere, literally nowhere up Rt 23 sandwiched between 1200 ft mountain peaks and lakes…Are they going to build low income housing like Favelas up the sides of Rt 23?
Juice: OMG, Bergen Co is going to become just like the Bronx!! Been hearing that for years, maybe it’s happening now.
I haven’t looked into 4th round much yet, but I imagine there is a way to pay another town to build units that would satisfy the requirements, as was the case previously.
That’s the money I’d follow.
Grim no longer…. the towns can no longer shift away the housing obligations and pay other towns like Hoboken, Jersey City, Newark to build etc. These were know as Regional Contribution Agreements (RCA’s). Those were eliminated by legislation and court rulings. The latest requirement are for municipalities to directly address their affordable housing obligations within their own borders.
Here is the sortable data. Wayne NJ is #1
Wayne township Passaic 162 1,746
Hardyston township Sussex 22 1,622
Paramus borough Bergen 254 1,523
Secaucus town Hudson 25 1,282
https://www.app.com/story/marketplace/real-estate/2025/01/03/nj-judge-rejects-towns-bid-stop-new-affordable-housing-law/77403697007/
Here is the timeline… RCAs which allowed towns to pay other towns to build to fulfill their housing obligations were eliminated in 2008.
https://www.fairsharehousing.org/about/
You are getting low income housing whether you like it or not. It’s only fair….
Maybe we’ll get backyard accessory units like Canada, or ability to add an accessory apartment in the basement.
it is happening. My friends in Bergen County have complained that the driving has become insanely aggressive. My last trip there, I can concur. It was no different than NYC. When the natives there are complaining about it, you know it’s changed.
3B – the expensive towns where there is really no land to build are going to have to build some high rise projects…
Ridgewood – 427 units
Millburn – 555 units
Summit -345 units
Glen Ridge – 178 units
Meanwhile the cities?
Trenton – 0 units
Newark – 0 units
Jersey City – 0 units
Paterson – 0 units
178 in Glen Ridge – lol.
You’d need to assemble properties and tear down structures to accommodate this.
At some point you are forced to start trading commercial and industrial opportunities for residential. The tax implications are going to be staggering.
re: insanely aggressive driving.
More like insanely driving while touching glass, and no concequences. PoPo were busy …..as in No where to be found.. Attorney General now has an investigation open apparently the Police decided to stop nobody for a long time. Citations for speeding, drunken driving, cellphone use and other moving violations plummeted by 81% across the state month to month compared with the year before according to a NY Times investigation. This was after they were punished for pulling over minority drivers, and now they want to take away police courtesy cards.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/08/nyregion/new-jersey-state-police-slowdown.html
https://www.newhopefreepress.com/2025/01/03/comptroller-nj-state-police-gave-preferential-treatment-to-those-with-courtesy-cards/
We require affordable housing because everyone wants to live in NJ
Plenty of cheap land in maga states but nobody, including NJ rightwingers, want to live under GOP control. Oklahoma, Mississippi, Dakota, Arkansas. No NJ maga ain’t never gonna move there
Florida bans porn.
Can’t control magas sexual depravity
Didn’t Grindr app crash during the last GOP summit?
What’s next for FL? Ask for gender and only allow hetero p0rn?
For the die-hard republican skeptics –
https://www.newsweek.com/grindr-app-crashes-milwaukee-rnc-1927750
Headline today: US Natural Gas and Heating Oil Prices Jump on Cold Snap Forecast.
And shipping it to Europe for high profit margins.
“Landman” show is a bit cheesy but entertaining
Phoenix says:
January 3, 2025 at 12:57 pm
Headline today: US Natural Gas and Heating Oil Prices Jump on Cold Snap Forecast.
And shipping it to Europe for high profit margins.
I do think we’re going to see a lot more high-density/high-rise development on the highway corridors where it’s going to be more acceptable to stack units. We’re already seeing this in a big way, but limited a bit to that 4-6 story mark. But drive around the main corridors and you’ll see plenty of these, many that are surprisingly close to the highways.
It’s going to be much easier to get towns to accept the height variances and taller structures, than sprawling low-rise multifamily.
Build a couple of skyscrapers in Bell-Nokia’s headquarters.
Price it a $1 million per bedroom.
It would sellout. No problem
grim says:
January 3, 2025 at 1:31 pm
I do think we’re going to see a lot more high-density/high-rise development on the highway corridors where it’s going to be more acceptable to stack units. We’re already seeing this in a big way, but limited a bit to that 4-6 story mark. But drive around the main corridors and you’ll see plenty of these, many that are surprisingly close to the highways.
It’s going to be much easier to get towns to accept the height variances and taller structures, than sprawling low-rise multifamily.
About 8 years ago, a developer purchased five homes on Baldwin Street, just east of Nicolo’s (the bread baker to many of the better restaurants in the area), and built a very large styrofoam complex in it’s place. They used the builder’s remedy rule (I wonder how much political favor was purchased to get that on the books) which is a legal tool in New Jersey that allows developers to rezone properties to build high-density housing in exchange for including affordable units. In this case, in exchange for THREE units, the developer made a bloody fortune putting up an out-of-scale for the area complex where perfectly normal homes previously existed. On the bright side, the area the building was constucted in was near our Mountainside Hospital, so it didn’t look THAT out of place. On the negative side, there is nothing stopping greedy developers from buying up your block, one home at a time, and replacing the homes with a huge, ugly cardboard and styrofoam-looking rectangular 100 unit condo building.
Here’s an interesting read on how it was done here. https://www.glenridgenj.org/pdfs/StatusOfAffordableHousingLit.pdf
Here is what they built:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/9eayijDq5fdZwk3G8
Here is what it used to look like:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Sf5Mu3D9yp3fi3GNA
Remember, it could happen across the street from you, or behind you and there is absolutely nothing you can do about the negative impact it will have on your property value. Personally, I think ADU’s are a better solution. Again, there is no will to change the laws to allow them. Why? Well who is gonna grease the local mayor’s palm?
In NJ, the ones usually doing the mayor greasing are usually the real estate brokers that represent the listings in new development, or more commonly, are also just friends or family of the mayor directly.
Doesn’t senior housing or assisted living construction cover the requirements for low income housing?
Have you seen Jersey Ave, Coles Street, Newark Ave etc on the Hoboken/Jersey City border? WTF? Who would want to even live there…. no neighborhood….. ostensibly convenient, but actually a royal PIA at most times, where you waste 15 minutes just getting over there from whereever……
grim says:
January 3, 2025 at 1:31 pm
I do think we’re going to see a lot more high-density/high-rise development on the highway corridors where it’s going to be more acceptable to stack units. We’re already seeing this in a big way, but limited a bit to that 4-6 story mark. But drive around the main corridors and you’ll see plenty of these, many that are surprisingly close to the highways.
It’s going to be much easier to get towns to accept the height variances and taller structures, than sprawling low-rise multifamily.
In Cedar Grove we got sued by the COAH group until we caved so they could build 400 luxury apartment units with our share of affordable units. See land below clearcut, left of Reservoir…
https://shorturl.at/ZD9NG
Then, by April of last year (2024) supposedly the money dried up” and we are left with foundations with rebar:
https://shorturl.at/7XBd0
Juice: There are approximately 2000 new apartments being built or approved to be built in Paramus, including in the Bergen Town Mall on Rt 4, and the Paramus Park Mall. The developers will be taking part of the Macy s parking lot to build the apartments in Paramus Park. I don’t know where they will put these new affordable units.
Weather Forecast (jj Edition):
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-14244511/everyone-joke-winter-storm-forecast-map.html
Though the suit is valid and has merit, it is in big parts a reflection of Montvale mayor’s political ambitions. NJ is going to flip to GOP soon in 4 years or so, and these idiot rulings that exclude Jersey City, Hoboken and such in applying rules will backfire sooner or later.
Remember, it could happen across the street from you, or behind you and there is absolutely nothing you can do about the negative impact it will have on your property value.
I believe this is called “saying the quiet part out loud”.
The objections to new housing are all about home owners wanting to maintain their “right” to make obscene profits by hoarding a finite resource (land).
The objections to new housing are all about home owners wanting to maintain their “right” to make obscene profits by hoarding a finite resource (land).
Nah, it’s to avoid a quiet suburb from turning into the Tremont section or Spring Valley.
OC1: They want to protect their property value, but they also don’t want to live with blue collar workers who did not got to college, single mothers and minorities. And that’s Liberals as well as Conservatives.
My only issue is privacy. At $21K a year, I should not have an apartment building blocking out the sun and people looking down at me in my Intex pool from the 6th floor of a megastructure when I live in a 100 year-old tudor.
I could care less what color or income level my neighbors are. Actually, I prefer them to be blue collar over white collar.
But I know I am in the minority.
If this did happen, I would move to someplace quiet and empty. Like most of the Southwest.
Lib: Check your entitlement. That is what many liberal or woke folks would say.
You will like this one. Pure Jersey here, ritzy Mendham NJ.
https://youtu.be/VgsEHnZtCE0?t=107
Since we are still in (grim) prediction season –
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2025/01/03/15-unpredictable-scenarios-for-2025-00196309
BERNIE MADOFF’S PONZI SCHEME VICTIMS HAVE NOW RECOVERED 94% OF THEIR LOSSES
Wow, the Madoff victims outperformed Cathie Wood in the end
“One of my problems with the younger generation is they have no idea, no perspective. Of course, if they’ve gone to elite universities, i.e., a—h— factories, they’ve been indoctrinated into this idea that they live in the worst country in the world at the worst time in history, when actually they live in, with all our flaws, still probably the best, with definitely indisputably the best time in history.”
Bill Maher
94% of the money they gave him, not the balances they thought they had.
Also, giving Madoff $1M in 1990 and receiving $940,000 in 2024 still kind of appears to be a serious loss to me.
I guess it is better than -100%
BRT says:
January 4, 2025 at 5:11 pm
BERNIE MADOFF’S PONZI SCHEME VICTIMS HAVE NOW RECOVERED 94% OF THEIR LOSSES
Wow, the Madoff victims outperformed Cathie Wood in the end
The Republicans, he believes, will run rings around the Democratic Party for as long as the latter fails to “unconvince itself that it is this misunderstood vehicle for what people really want. They often say, when they lose elections, ‘We didn’t get our message out.’ Yes you did. They just didn’t like it. You got it out loud and clear.”
Bill Maher
Lol – if you need a laugh.
Hillary Clinton receiving the Medal of Freedom
https://x.com/DrClownPhD/status/1875628086517264693
3b/Lib
IMO, people who oppose new housing in order to preserve their neighborhoods and protect their property values are no different than those Teamsters who refuse to allow the ports to automate.
They want to keep things as exactly as they are, no matter the cost to everybody else.
Maher. Another f’n prune that just doesn’t croak already. Old goat celebrity who hasn’t gotten his hands dirty except when he forgets to reload the toilet paper roll.
when actually they live in, with all our flaws, still probably the best, with definitely indisputably the best time in history.”
Bill Maher
CONGESTION PRICING IN MANHATTAN IS HERE! YAY!!
$9 between the hours of 5:00 AM and 9:00 PM anywhere below 60th street, Monday through Friday. Weekend hours start at 9:00 AM No EZPass? You pay more!
Here is a solution to the affordable housing crisis.
Costco is building apartments above its stores to address the affordable housing crisis, starting early this year.
Walking downstairs and getting a $1.50 hot dog gives new meaning to “affordable walkability.”
It includes free membership, a rooftop pool, fitness area, gardens/ courtyards, and a community space.
Los Angeles is the first residential complex with 800 apartments and a built-in store.
Would you live above a Costco?
https://www.wsj.com/real-estate/is-living-on-top-of-a-costco-the-answer-to-the-affordable-housing-crisis-ed3e8bf3
Welcome to Putin’s America.
The French have more guts when it comes to cartoons.
Washington Post cartoonist quits after drawing with Trump rejected
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/04/washington-post-cartoonist-quits-after-drawing-of-bezos-other-billionaires-with-trump-rejected.html?__source=iosappshare%7Ccom.google.chrome.ios.OpenExtension
Juice: Who knew! Bill Maher may want to reconsider his comments about this being the best time to live in, as far as the young people at least.
No congestion pricing in Maga controlled states.
Because nobody wants to live there.
Fast Eddie says:
January 5, 2025 at 8:17 am
CONGESTION PRICING IN MANHATTAN IS HERE! YAY!!
$9 between the hours of 5:00 AM and 9:00 PM anywhere below 60th street, Monday through Friday. Weekend hours start at 9:00 AM No EZPass? You pay more!
Question for the board on hot water heater options.
We’re going to replace both electric hot water heaters.
Choice is $3,600 for 2 a o smith 50 gallon tanks. This is a no for us
$4,800 for a o smith heat pump. That has a 30% tax rebate and a 6 year warranty. Would cost around 3k and is more energy efficient then tankless.
$4,800 for essency tankless with a 20 year warranty and it does not need annual maintenance unlike a lot of tankless ones. Would cost less then half what traditional tanks to use but costs more than heat pump hot water heater. It’s also only been in the US for 2 years. It’s a French company that’s been around for 15 years.
All costs include permit, delivery, all installation costs and hauling away old units.
The tankless runs on 240 so no need to upgrade electrical
Beer – I would base the decision on convenience and comfort in the long run over costs.
Especially if you have multiple family members – assume they are spoilt and take long showers.
It’s a home not an investment.
2 cents.
Hold-
If you go heat pump consider where you are dumping the air, basement? Outside is best.
Essence- Interesting, new to me and I’ve been doing this a while. There are indirects run off of boilers with a similar concept, but they use 140 degree boiler water, so much more hot water. Electric is a whole another ball game.
At first glance I ask why? So they are heating up and maintaining a tank of hot water with standard 240V 4500 KW elements that they then run through a heat exchanger to transfer that heat to the domestic hot water for use. Why not just skip the middleman? There has to be some inefficiency running through that heat exchanger. Even if there was not, you still have to reheat that same 50 gallons of hot water to keep up with the demand.
They say they have first hour delivery of 80 gallons. Fine, pretty standard, 50 minutes of shower time. What happens after that? Other manufacturers will list their recovery rate. I couldn’t find one for them. Does flow drop or temperature? Has to be one or the other. How long until you can get back to that 100% demand?
A lot will depend upon the incoming water temperature. 120 out is standard. It takes a lot less energy to raise it from 80 degreee Miami groundwater temps that it does from 50 degree Nj temps.
Every manufacturer is trying to get around the current and upcoming regulations on electric water heaters. Anything over 50 gallons now has to be a heat pump. Soon will be 50+. Best way I’ve seen to do it is find a manufacturer who offers a “light commercial” 80 gallon electric that can be wired as a standard 240V 4500W residential heater.
Hughesrep
It’s in the garage.
Here’s the essency site.
https://essencyhome.com/
I looked at it, where I found some of the info and how it works.
Poking around, pretty much only available in the south for now. While that is typically the largest market for electrics, tells me they probably have issues with lower groundwater temps as well. May work well with higher groundwater temps. Same as true tankless electrics.
Delta T is Delta T, a BTU is a BTU. How you create them is where efficiency comes in.
Say they can get 5 GPM at 70 degree temp rise, which is about the same as a gas tankless.
The essence is not a tankless. It still has a 50 gallon tank of hot water to keep up to temp via electricity. I guess you could call it a hybrid.
With Madoff, people don’t realize how long these things take to close out.
I was part of the Lehman Bankruptcy team for 10 years and that finally closed that out in 2022.
“There are indirects run off of boilers”
I put this in and it is the best thing ever. Not running out of hot water on a busy morning in this house is a BFD. Multiple showers running at the same time, while everyone cycles through. In the winter the heat is running anyway so the boiler barely notices the tank demand.
Beer that Essence has more parts to break. You have an extra water pump, a heat exchanger, as well as electronics including wifi with a mobile App that will eventually go obsolete.
Juice
You think an a o smith with a heat pump is the better option? It’s going into a 2 car garage so there’s plenty of air for the heat pump.
I read the essency warranty. Tank is 20 years and the parts are 6, but you have to do maintenance on it or the parts warranty is invalid.
I can’t imagine an electric tankless working very well if there is any appreciable demand (multiple showers, showers plus dishwasher or laundry, etc). So the holding tank makes perfect sense. Assuming something like a delta t of 60, a hot water temp of 120, and a 5gpm flow rate, you’d need 50kw of electric to keep up with demand, which is basically the entire capacity of a modern residence electrical capacity. Which not coincidentally, is why you almost never see them up in the north outside of smaller point of use “instant” heaters, like in a sink vanity or similar.
We ran a 199kbtu Rinnai at the distillery for a while to try to heat up water faster, during the winter months, with 40-50f groundwater, they were worthless. And this is more power than (on a BTU basis) than that 50kw of electical.
That Essency thing feels like it’s going to be a repair disaster in the long term, way too much proprietary shit to break. Wifi? For what.
Why aren’t they just installing indirect storage tanks (like you would see with a gas boiler) and a standard electrical tankless? To me, this is the most bombproof electrical setup. With a higher quality indirect storage tank, you don’t need to worry about this thing leaking in 10 years.
There are plenty of examples of high-tech offerings in the plumbing/hvac space where companies/products didn’t exist for more than a few years, leaving customers largely stranded.
I take it that we aren’t getting a new thread.
You’ll get what you’ll get and you’ll like it. Peasant.