From Bloomberg:
U.S. Property Owners Lost $3.3 Trillion in Home Value Last Year
The U.S. housing market lost $3.3 trillion in value last year and almost one in six owners with mortgages owed more than their homes were worth as the economy went into recession, Zillow.com said.
The median estimated home price declined 11.6 percent in 2008 to $192,119 and homeowners lost $1.4 trillion in value in the fourth quarter alone, the Seattle-based real estate data service said in a report today.
“It’s like a runaway train gaining momentum,” Stan Humphries, Zillow’s vice president of data and analytics, said in an interview. “It’s difficult to say when we’ll see a bottom to the housing market.”
The U.S. economy shrank the most in the fourth quarter since 1982, contracting at a 3.8 percent annual pace, the Commerce Department said on Jan. 30. Record foreclosures have pushed down prices as unemployment rose. More than 2.3 million properties got a default or auction notice or were seized by lenders last year, according to RealtyTrac Inc., a seller of data on defaults.
About $6.1 trillion of value has been lost since the housing market peaked in the second quarter of 2006 and last year’s decline was almost triple the $1.3 trillion lost in 2007, Zillow said.
Values have dropped for eight straight quarters. They fell in Manhattan for the first time since Zillow began including the New York City borough in its records two years ago.
…
“A witch’s brew of economic insecurity, foreclosures and tightened lending standards are helping to keep hard-hit markets down and to widen the scope of markets showing declines,” Humphries said in a statement accompanying the report.The number of homeowners with negative equity, or those who owed more on their homes than the property was worth, rose to 17.6 percent from 14.3 percent in the third quarter, Zillow said. The company began its quarterly reports in 2006.
WOW $3,300,000,000,000.00
that’s what 3.3 trillion looks like-
$3,300,000,000,000.00
From the Hartford Courant:
State Housing Prices Tumble
The median sale price for single-family houses in Connecticut posted its largest year-to-year decline in 20 years in 2008. Although that’s a big concern for homeowners worried about property values, its been a boon to buyers like Matthew Venturi and Jessica Hampton.
Plummeting housing prices, falling 9.2 percent for 2008, allowed the first-time home buyers to purchase a much larger house than they ever expected — a three-bedroom, 2,250-square-foot colonial in New Britain, for $249,000.
“This house is just kind of pretty fantastic for the price,” Venturi said.
Although some people in the market for real estate these days are finding bargains, the overall market is still looking bleak, as sales and median prices continued their sharp declines in December.
For the full year of 2008, single-family house sales fell 23.7 percent compared with 2007.
The 9.2 percent drop in median price for 2008 was the largest in the 20 years that The Warren Group has been tracking residential real estate trends in Connecticut. The 2008 drop was larger than any single year during the prolonged real estate downturn in Connecticut from 1989 to 1995, The Warren Group said in a report issued Monday.
The median sale price of a single-family house was $268,000 for 2008, a four-year low, compared with $295,000 in 2007. A total of 24,721 single-family houses were sold, down from 32,384 in 2007.
In December, the median price plunged 14.8 percent, to $230,000 from $270,000, compared with same month a year earlier — slightly less than the 16 percent decline in November, but the second-deepest monthly decline in 2008.
From Prudential Fox and Roach:
Greater Philadelphia Housing Prices Decreased 2.6 Percent in 2008;
23.9 Percent Decrease in the Number of Residential Homes Sold
Greater Philadelphia region* median home prices decreased 2.6 percent to $223,000 in 2008, according to Prudential Fox & Roach, REALTORS’® HomExpert Market Report©. The median sale price in 2007 was $229,000. The region’s median sale price decreased 0.8 percent compared to 2006 when the median sale price stood at $224,900.
In 2008, the region saw 57,877 homes sold, a 23.9 percent decrease, compared to 76,084 homes sold in 2007. The region decreased 32.2 percent compared to 2006 when 85,302 homes sold. The average number of days a home remained on the market increased from 65 days in 2007 to 77 days in 2008. In 2006, homes remained on the market for an average of 54 days. Additionally, monthly average inventory for 2008 was 60,530 compared to 60,166 in 2007 and 54,009 in 2006.
Philadelphia County was the only county in the region to increase in median sale price, rising 0.9 percent in 2008 to $141,237. Salem County fell 1.2 percent to $169,950, Chester County
-1.9 percent to $304,250, New Castle County -2.1 percent to $228,000, and Mercer County -2.5 percent to $268,000.
…
Philadelphia County posted the highest number of homes sold in 2008 with 13,159, a 22.9 percent decrease compared to 2007, followed by Montgomery County (8,047, -20.7 percent), Bucks County (5,495, -20.7 percent), Delaware County (5,309, -28.7 percent) and New Castle County (4,984, -28.9 percent).
Is this according to actual sales or their still over-inflated “zestimates”?
“It’s difficult to say when we’ll see a bottom to the housing market.”
Duh.
How about we may be getting near a bottom when.
1) It’s much cheaper to buy then rent
2) People can buy without putting themselves in financial distress
3) Most option arms have finished resetting or have been foreclosed
4) A trip to the proctologist seems like spring break compared to applying for a mortgage.
From Boston.com:
Selling for less than you paid
It used to be fun reading through the real estate listings in the back of Banker & Tradesman, seeing who blew $10 million on some downtown condo and who lost their shirt in a foreclosure. (In the interest of full disclosure, I write a weekly column for the paper.)
But theres one thing that, until the last several months, you never saw: home and condos selling for less than what they were bought for.
Now, pick up the paper, and you cant avoid it. A casual glance of this weeks records reveals a Marlborough Street condo that just sold for $425,000, having fetched $427,000 two years ago, and a Charlestown condo that sold for $424,158 at the peak of the boom, now changing hands for $385,000.
…
All told, home values tumbled 9.6 percent in the Boston area in 2008, bringing the median price back down to $317,352. The last time we saw prices that low was back in 2002, when the late great real estate bubble was just getting rolling.
Grim-regarding home prices/current value, hasn’t zillow always been very high? If so, what do you think the real loss numbers are?
From the WSJ:
Home Price Declines Accelerated in Fourth Quarter, New Report Says
Homeowners saw a whopping $3.3 trillion in residential values eroded last year — with $1.4 trillion vanishing in the fourth quarter alone — showing the market’s downward spiral gained speed as more homeowners find themselves underwater, in foreclosure, resorting to short sales or just out of hope, according to according to real estate Web site Zillow.com’s latest market report.
Since the market’s 2006 peak, eight consecutive quarters of value drops have erased more than $6 trillion in value nationwide –- at least on paper –- even delivering pain to previously stable markets including Manhattan and Seattle.
And there’s no end in sight.
Grim-regarding home prices/current value, hasn’t zillow always been very high? If so, what do you think the real loss numbers are?
Aggregate market statistics from Zillow are likely to be accurate, I believe they have a comprehensive sale database.
However, individual property valuations are mostly crap.
yea, but this really does not effect
Bergen county, especially Northern Bergen.. close to NYC,, etc.
From the Press of Atlantic City:
Pleasantville seeks stimulus money to renovate 12 foreclosed homes
City officials are scrambling this week to apply for nearly
$2 million in federal money that would fund the renovation of 12 foreclosed homes.
New Jersey municipalities are vying for a state share of $53 million for “neighborhood stabilization” projects that can be completed within 18 months. Four county locations were essentially pre-approved, but not Pleasantville.
Housing Authority attorney Richard Ginnetti told City Council at Monday night’s meeting that the oversight is baffling, given that Pleasantville’s foreclosure rate is now the highest in the county.
The council voted unanimously to apply for the grant, likely $1.7 million to $1.8 million. The deadline to apply is Friday.
The 12 targeted homes are in midtown. All would be renovated, then half would be sold and half rented. The homes would help satisfy Pleasantville’s mandatory affordable-housing quota, Ginnetti said.
Good to know, Thx Grim
From USA Today:
More families move in together during housing crisis
Love isn’t all that’s keeping family together today. The bruising housing market is, too.
…
The weak economy — which has brought surging foreclosures, sinking property values, vanishing home equity and mounting job losses — is playing a major role in family dynamics, pulling relatives under the same roof to pool their resources and aid relatives who’ve lost their homes.
Siblings are moving in with one another to help pay the mortgage. Adult children who’ve lost homes to foreclosure are moving back home with Mom and Dad. Even spouses in the throes of divorce are putting off separating, living together in awkward cold wars because they can’t sell their houses.
That’s in large part because those losing homes often have nowhere else to go. Many live paycheck to paycheck: Nearly 61% of local and state homeless coalitions are seeing an increase in homelessness since the foreclosure crisis began in 2007, according to an April 2008 study by the National Coalition for the Homeless. Only 5% said they hadn’t seen an increase. The survey found that more than 76% of homeowners and renters who must move because of foreclosures are staying with family and friends.
another bailout coming?
Car sales: From bad to worse
“Even as credit starts to flow to potential car buyers, sales could fall to a 26-year low due to a sharp drop in purchases by car rental companies.”
http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/02/news/companies/auto_sales_outlook/index.htm
“Siblings are moving in with one another to help pay the mortgage.”
Good night Grandma. Good night John Boy.
“Even spouses in the throes of divorce are putting off separating, living together in awkward cold wars because they can’t sell their houses.”
We can now expect to see a drop in divorce rate
A bit of California budget info from my Faculty Senate (non-union – representatives from each school) meeting last night:
California has run a structural deficit since the dot.com bust with quick fixes and borrowing.
In 2000 – 15 people paid $8B in income tax. 50% of the income tax revenue comes from 1% of the taxpayers. We have a crazy system here – very volatile – based on personal income tax and sales tax. Both are down dramatically. (I think those 15 people left the state!)
So when we had the money, we spent it – when we didn’t have the money, we spent it.
Sales tax keeps going backwards: 2007, 2008, 2009. This has never happened before. Also, the number of housing starts is the smallest this year – ever (since they started keeping records.)
Arnold is proposing a cut to ADA (what you get per pupil – currently only $5,805 per pupil in my district – bare bones for around here) – of another 4.5% next year and 2.40% in 2011. My district had to cut 11M this year and has cut $21 million since 02. We based this year’s budget on last year’s but have not seen real figures for 8 months.
Because we had a surplus, there will be no staff cuts this year. But going forward…no one really knows what will happen.
We are looking to restructure our transportation budget because it is the one area where we have some wiggle room…no raises (not even the state-mandated COLA) for two years and probably for many years to come.
Luckily, priority #1 in my district is job preservation but I don’t see how we can keep this up…Some are proposing cutting the school year, but that will be resisted at my district.
Now I get to report this info to my staff…ugh….
“California has run a structural deficit since the dot.com bust with quick fixes and borrowing.”
Cindy,
The same can be said for most states, municipalities and, of course, DC.
Any LIZ left in Secaucus?
From MarketWatch:
Liz Claiborne cutting 725 jobs or 8% of U.S. workforce
Ref 16:
“We can now expect to see a drop in divorce rate.”
And an increase in homicides?
Frist!
From the Bridgeton News:
Center for disabled lays off dozen
Elwyn New Jersey laid off 12 of its workers last week, a cost-cutting measure that’s just one in a series of reductions the counseling service as been forced to take, according to one laid-off employee.
The employee also stressed how the patients are among the victims in the recent firings.
From the Jersey Journal:
Bayonne fires 9 nonresident workers
Bayonne has fired nine municipal employees for failing to comply with a city ordinance that requires city workers – except those grandfathered in or exempted by state law – to live in the city.
City Business Administrator Peter Cresci declined to identify the employees who were fired on the grounds that personnel issues are confidential.
But he did say the nine workers were employed in the health department, public works department or were school crossing guards.
Five terminations took effect Friday and the rest will be leaving next week, Cresci said.
From the Record>
Allstate seeks 15.4% hike in N.J.
Allstate New Jersey Insurance Co., the state’s third-largest auto insurer by premium dollars, has asked the state for permission to raise rates by 15.4 percent on average to cover the higher cost of car repairs, lawsuits and medical care, the company said.
The request filed Jan. 23 is the largest ever by the company, which covers nearly 700,000 vehicles in the state, company spokesman Walter Tomasheski acknowledged. The company, which is sending letters to policyholders in 300,000 households, issued a press release announcing the request on Friday. The New Jersey Department of Banking and Insurance, which is reviewing the request, has 90 days to respond.
“Allstate is paying more in claims than it is collecting in premiums,” Tomasheski said in a telephone interview.
Insurance rates are a sore subject for New Jersey drivers who pay among the highest rates in the country. After State Farm and American International Group threatened to leave the state earlier in the decade, auto insurance regulations were relaxed in 2003, prompting more competition from discount underwriters. Geico, which is part of Warren Buffet’s Berkshire Hathaway conglomerate, began selling auto insurance here in 2004, and Progressive Insurance came a couple years later. It’s unclear if rates have come down as a result.
A rate increase of the size Allstate is requesting is “absolutely unconscionable,” said Phyllis Salowe-Kaye, executive director of consumer watchdog New Jersey Citizen Action. “The state should take a really hard look at this request,” she said.
Back to taxes:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hKcJEw8d1rCegiLNxA85ewoJyqBgD964300G1
Daschle did get warm words of support from numerous Democratic senators. Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., gave him an especially important endorsement, since the two men have had tussles in the past over Baucus’ handling of GOP tax-cut proposals, Medicare changes and other issues.
“His tax mistakes are regrettable,” Baucus said. “But his tax mistakes do not change his qualifications to lead on health care reform. They do not change my support for his nomination.”
So, Mr. Baucus, if Charles Manson had some particularly needed expertise, would it be, “The events at the Tait and Lobianco residences, to which Mr. Manson have ben linked are certainly regretable. Nevertheless, they were a long time ago and Mr. Manson never did, get his hands dirty, as it were. And, while we all wish he had more-fully complied with the laws in place at the time, the actions of those around him, and, indeed, his own misguided actions — for which I am sure he regrets — do not change his qualifications to lead on this issue and they do not change my support for his nomination.”
It is absurd to confirm even a nice man like T.D. when his actions go against every message we are trying to send to the American people — pay your taxes and don’t cheat, we need the dough Mack — and they reflect badly on the new Administration and the congress as a whole.
If he were hald the person I used to think he was, Daschel would withdraw from HHS consideration and just take the WH post, which is where the power will be anyway.
Driving onthe Parkway this weekend, watching people at 30+ MPH above the posted limit weaving in and out across 4-6 lanes of traffic ()similar observations on Rt 35, etc.), and our usual ballet of people fighting and clawing to gain one-car-length’s advantage over the SOB in front, the idiots on the side, and the shmuck behind, it is hard to see how we could have a sufficient number of accidents (or driving behavior likely to lead to accidents) to justify raising insurance rates.
Shore (25)-
Only a crook would even want these jobs. The gubmint has shown itself over and over to be no more than an ongoing criminal enterprise. They are puppets of banks, WS and corporate interests and their alleged “work” on behalf of the people is no more than a PR/disinformation campaign, staged to direct attention away from the central operations of the criminal enterprise.
We are all complicit with the gubmint…to the point at which we now really are a fully-developed fascist enterprise, with privatized gains, soci@lized losses and complete gubmint underwriting of favored businesses and industries.
We are, indeed, turning European. Just like Italy, 1940.
I’ll say it again: prices in desirable towns in Northern NJ have stayed flat or declined SLIGHTLY. You are not going to get a 4/2.5 CHC in Northern Bergen or Western Essex for 30% off of peak. It ain’t happening.
big deal, we have lost imaginary money. lets call the imagination movers and see if they can help us.
Already happened.
gary says:
February 3, 2009 at 8:14 am
I’ll say it again: prices in desirable towns in Northern NJ have stayed flat or declined SLIGHTLY. You are not going to get a 4/2.5 CHC in Northern Bergen or Western Essex for 30% off of peak. It ain’t happening.
“Insurance rates are a sore subject for New Jersey drivers who pay among the highest rates in the country.”
We drive aggressively, and pay foir it.
We buy houses that are too big for our incomes, and pay for it.
We don’t save enough for retirement, and we WILL pay for it.
And we expect “government” to make it all better. Hey folks, look around. Government is nothing but a group of people we hired to mind the store and take care of things while we go about earning money and living our lives.
Until we come to grips ith this, we are going to face income and property ta increases the likes of which we have never before imagined.
Gary-
What does this mean?:
1. You will remain where you are for the rest of your life?
2. You will go ahead, bite the bullet, and pay up in one of your targeted move-up areas?
“big deal, we have lost imaginary money.”
John,
Except for those that used their abode as an ATM. The asset price sinks, the debt remains.
big deal, we have lost imaginary money. lets call the imagination movers and see if they can help us.
Many purchased based on the assumption of significant ongoing appreciation. These folks dedicated a significant portion of their income to housing in hopes that real estate appreciation would compensate them for their reduced savings/investment.
Now that the black boxed assumptions have been blown out of the water, the homeownership-at-any-cost model makes little sense.
“or declined SLIGHTLY.”
Gary,
What’s next? Prices in Northern NJ have declined by 30%, which pales in comparison to the declines in Detroit of 60% to 70%.
“Many purchased based on the assumption of significant ongoing appreciation.”
Weren’t we supposed to stretch to get into a home?
Do these Jenks and Papasan clowns really feel that people are going to have any faith in their “reports”? I thought this was actually a piece from the Onion.
Clot, don’t watch this if you have just had your breakfast.
THIS MONTH IN REAL ESTATE
http://thekeystonewjersey.com/2009/01/08/this-month-in-real-estate-recap-on-december-2008/
“I’ll say it again: prices in desirable towns in Northern NJ have stayed flat or declined SLIGHTLY. ”
Recently we stopped looking at waterfront property in NJ. It is not the prices, well partially the overinflated prices, that have persuaded us to not buy right now, but mainly fear of possible runaway tax increases. Likewise, we hear the news out of NY and refuse to look there either, not even in Upstate.
So, we expanded our search to include houses with acerage and 100+ feet of lake frontage, or an ocean/bayfront homes from South Carolina to N.C., VA, MD, WV,PA, VT, CT,RI, NH, MASS, and ME.
What we have found is that the lowest-end houses, which we do not want to mess with, have come down in prices fairly considerably — perhaps this is a function of short selling, foreclosures, or people trying to shed the financial drag before getting pulled under. On the other hand, homes in the range we are looking have become more scarce. I suspect that they are owned by folks like us who have some means but are not rich but can take a paper loss of even the entire value of the property; so, these folks just decide to kep the house in the family and use it when they want instead of taking a loss and having nothing to show for it. Those who are selling have not budged much on price and seem little inclination to do so. Unless they get their nether parts caught in a wringer and need to sell due to divorce, death, relocation to Bosnia, or whatever, they are also inclined to sit tight.
As I refuse to pay $1 for something I think is worth $.50 or .90, I do not see us moving on anything for the rest of this year and perhaps not the first half of 2010. In the meantime, weekends in the USVI, Dominica, Belize, etc. help us stave off any regrets of not having yet another place on which to pay property tax, insurance, etc.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2009/02/62303386/1
NYT calling for Daschel to withdraw his name.
“Now that the black boxed assumptions have been blown out of the water, the homeownership-at-any-cost model makes little sense.”
They have been blown out of WS. Now being transferred to DC.
“Just like Italy, 1940”
Wrong. Wrong! WRONG! The North Jerseycoast trains do not run on time.
“Weren’t we supposed to stretch to get into a home?”
Stu,
I believe what they asked us to do was to get in front of the bankers, bend over and stretch our hands towards the floor. Oh wait, that was TARP.
NYT=Smokescreen. Act up in arms to give yourself some semblance of independance when in reality you are a mouthpiece for the Democratic party.
so what did they do with the cash?
BC Bob says:
February 3, 2009 at 8:27 am
“big deal, we have lost imaginary money.”
John,
Except for those that used their abode as an ATM. The asset price sinks, the debt remains.
Story NYT should print:
February 02, 2009
It’s Obamanable: No Equal Pay in Sen. Obama’s Office
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/025100.html
John,
They took vacations on the house, as the ad once said. Grim, do you still have a link to it?
so what did they do with the cash?
Ferrari and Jaguar switchin’ four lanes, top down, screamin out, money ain’t a thang. Bubble hard in the double R flashin the rings.
returned to bond market today after a month off, picked up 5 year citi bonds at 10% and 5 year insurance bonds at 15%. I just don’t get it people are paralyized. Banks are lending at 4% and investment grade bonds are yielding 9% and munis are yielding 5%. Heck just do a big home equity and throw it back into fixed income market if you need a few extra hundred a month, if it fails I guess walk away from your home like the other deadbeats.
“mouthpiece for the Democratic party”
They prefer the term “Lewinski.”
“so what did they do with the cash?”
John,
Either down 40-50% stocks, pissing in the wind, dream vacations, etc.. The asset gets pummelled, the debt reamins.
Okay, which one of you tech folks was behind this?
http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/278556
One wonders what this would do to the “recovery.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/03/AR2009020300643.html
The NJ set? A boat, a Harley and a Vette. Wife got the Benz or Beemer. Kid got a new SUV to drive to Rutgers in. HELOC’ed a down payment on a house in Ortley and a time share down in Florida. Oh, don’t forget the quads, trailer, and the Ram to tow it all with. Had to replace the 42″ Plasma when the 42″ LCD came out, and then the 42″ LCD looked small when the 50″ LCD came out. Of course, by that time, a second HELOC was necessary to put a down payment on a larger house to hold all the crap.
Come one Hehehe.
If you are going to post blog entries like that here, then I’m going to start linking to quotes from the klan.
That article is clutching at straws anyway. Give the messiah some time. There will be plenty of ‘real’ things to complain about besides thermostat settings and gender based differences in salaries.
“The Star newsroom was flooded with calls Sunday night from irate viewers who said that the p0rn cut into the game with less than three minutes left, just after Arizona Cardinals player Larry Fitzgerald scored on a touchdown pass from Kurt Warner to put the team ahead.
Callers said that the clip showed a woman unzipping a man’s pants, followed by a graphic act between the two.”
So, was it the p0rn or when it was cut in that upset people?
“gender based differences in salaries.”
Were there any differences in salaries of people with the same titles and the same responsibilities? I did not see that. It looked like more like someone looking at ALL jobs and comparing high-level jobs to low-level jobs and then complaining that the folks with the lower-level jobs are paid less. NOW, if one wants to say B.O. should have had more women in high-level positions, have at it.
Shore Guy says:
February 3, 2009 at 8:45 am
“mouthpiece for the Democratic party”
They prefer the term “Lewinski.”
Shore: is this related to the porkulus plan?
Maybe if Zillow got one of these they could keep up with the falling housing values:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10155420-92.html
From yesterday,
#240 make money
When you read that Bullion Reserve story, did you have a momentary doubt that the contents of that shelf with your name on it in Australia might just be bare?
Stu, are you still confident using Bullion Vault?
PGC,
I had that concern last year when I went to Australia to “visit” my shiny.
It was an amazing experience. Whn you’r ein a room with Ms. shiny you feel like a King.
Update January 25 at 11:38 a.m. PST with comment from IBM.
IBM has been quietly laying off workers in its North American offices since Wednesday, according to numerous reports online.
IBM has not made any formal announcements yet, but IBM Director of Corporate Media Relations Doug Shelton confirmed to CNET News on Saturday that some employees were notified on January 21 that their jobs were being cut. The company would not say how many people had been laid off or in what facilities or departments those cuts were made.
Speculation about those details are rampant online. So far, more than 2,800 employees have been laid off from IBM’s software, and sales and distribution divisions, according to Alliance@IBM, a Communications Workers of America affiliate attempting to organize IBM workers into a union. Comments on the Alliance@IBM Web site indicate that cuts have already been made in Toronto. And a spokesman for IBM Canada confirmed on Friday that IBM is in the process of laying off employees, some of whom were in the Canadian offices, according to ComputerWorld Canada.
Whether layoffs will make their way to the U.S. facilities (or whether they already have) hasn’t been announced. A representative from Alliance@IBM told the Poughkeepsie Journal that it expects IBM will cut jobs at its facilities in Poughkeepsie and East Fishkill, N.Y., and Burlington, Vt., this week. Shelton would not comment on plans for more cuts.
snip
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10149661-92.html?subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20&part=sphere
doh!
WSJ
Citi Explores Breaking Mets Deal
Bank That Got Bailout Cash Revisits $400 Million Pact to Put Name on Stadium
By DAVID ENRICH, MATTHEW FUTTERMAN and DAMIAN PALETTA
Citigroup Inc., eager to quell the controversy over how lenders are using government bailout money, is exploring the possibility of backing out of a nearly $400 million marketing deal with the New York Mets, say people familiar with the matter.
Officials at Citigroup have made no final decision about whether to try to void the 20-year agreement, which includes naming the Mets’ new baseball stadium after the bank, say these people.
In a statement Monday, Citigroup said that “no TARP capital will be used” for the stadium — referring to government funds from the Troubled Asset Relief Program. But as it revisits the pact, Citigroup is essentially acknowledging that the volatile political climate could make it untenable for the bank to proceed with the deal.
[edit]
Yes Shoreguy:
I hate when writers play to the animal instincts of their readers which makes them less likely to really analyze what the writer is claiming. To make matters worse, this moron points out that the NYT should have covered this story.
Not only are the pay differences minuscule, but there is absolutely no reference to the tenure of subjects analyzed.
Krugman occasionally pulls these stunts as well, but does a much better job covering them up. This Rockwell guy is playing to an audience who must think at the pre-school level.
“Bank That Got Bailout Cash Revisits $400 Million Pact to Put Name on Stadium”
Does this surprise anyone? Hey, in these tough economic times diverting these monies to naming rights on a stadium makes no sense at all. Clearly, the money can be better spent on bonuses.
“I hate when writers play to the animal instincts of their readers ”
At first I thought this was a reference to the mix-up in comcast signals during the game.
there is no gender pay difference. big myth. every place I have worked when dads became primary care giver of children their career, bonus and raises went in tank. It is not fair but most women are stuck in that role even when their hubbies make less sometimes as the women have to deal with hubbie macho ego. Women and Men with no kids or a stay at home spouse to watch the kids make more as they work more, what is wrong with that?
Why don’t the Mets just call their new digs Heartbreak Field or since the taxpayers involuntarily paid for it, Wasted Tax Dollar Stadium?
John,
If a married guy stays home with the kids, or just keeps house and cooks because he is better at it than his wife, he would be a fool not to want his wife to earn as much as or more than some guy with the same level job as she and who does not work at her level. Pay according to benefit/value provided to a firm. It seems like many of the “studies” looking at pay levels ignore all sorts of factors unrelated to gender discrimination that influence who gets paid what.
Stu,
TARP field at Taxpayer-Financed Stadium?
Anyway, enough of selling the “naming rights” to buildings constructed mostly with public money. If a firm pays over 50% of the construction costs, fine. But, for a few percentage costs of the cost, fuggedaboutit.
Grim @ 19
Liz is still here, but we are actually in North Bergen. Obviously, it’s very tense around here.
While house prices may be falling elsewhere, we continue to see strong pricing in NJ towns of Short Hills, Millburn, Summit, Chatham and Madison. Maplewood and south Orange have seen some declines but less than nationally. Those of you who want to wait for more price drops are kidding yourselves. Realtors are pricing houses right and you people need to be buyers. Work with a good realtor who can get you a loan and get that house today. There is no better value than New Jersey real estate along the train lines!
For those with time on their hands:
Amazon is offering a free (43MB) download of Build-a-lot:
Send the housing market through the roof as you build, buy, and sell houses in the new strategy game, Build-a-lot. You can flip houses for quick cash or sit back and watch the rental income pile up. Become a real estate mogul as you visit scenic towns, earn huge profits and perform special favors for the colorful local mayors. Can you build a new cinema for the local movie star? Install a bowling alley in the Mayor’s Mansion?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001KC01WO/ref=dsvrt_review_asin_detail
Don’t fret Metsies, we are certainly not the only team to suffer the identity crisis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naming_rights
“There is no better value than New Jersey real estate along the train lines!”
Train? Train to where?
Stop messin’ with me, mama, stop messin’ with my brain
Stop fussin’ with me, mama
‘Cause I gotta catch that train, catch that train, catch that train
I’ll catch the train to nowhere, still goin’ down the line
I’ll catch the train to nowhere, still goin’ down the line
I gotta catch that train oh, or I may lose my mind
Lol @ 70!
Trade war with EU and Canada looming..
Glad we got rid of that arrogant foreign policy and started to mend our relations with the world!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/business/7866900.stm
“A European Commission spokesman said it was the “worst possible signal” the Obama administration could send out.
The EU will launch a complaint with the World Trade Organisation (WTO) if the clause remains, the spokesman said.
The EU and Canadian ambassadors to Washington have already warned that the clause could promote protectionism and trigger retaliatory moves. ”
Besides, this worked out so well in Great Depression, after all.
“Realtors are pricing houses right and you people need to be buyers.”
Yea, right. And we need to pay more than justified for food, clothing, travedl, etc. Apparently, it is our duty; overpriced RE and higher taxes.
Can we lobby to make use of exclamation points illegal by the real estate industry?
Every offense would be subject to a $500 fine paid directly to a neighborhood revitalization program.
Sue @ 70:
I hope you didn’t miss the “Donate” button on the home-page.
Sell? Sell to whom?
Sue (70) – Love the ‘you people’ reference. Fits quite well with the elitist attitude.
Sue,
Maybe we just need a bailout for RE agents? Something like a three-year lease on Benz and a federal coupon good for reduced-priced hair and tanning salon treatments and one new suit a month?
BC (73) – ROFL… classic.
#70 Sue: Are you on drugs? Are you in denial? Was a realtor job going to be your ticket to the good life?
Train to NYC? To non-existent jobs?
And you are giving advice to people? Scary stuff.
I book a flight to Dallas online and I’m told a complimentary meal is served. So here I am at tne airport and they announce no meal. Maybe I can ask for the $15 fee for my luggage back.
Wag, do you think Sue is a “you people?”
Sue, whatchu been buying lately? Don’t be shy.
Sue,
No offense intended to Grim and some of the RE folks here who actually seem to have intelligence and perspective but, most of the RE agents I have ever met are neither very bright nor talented, and are the last people I would go to for economic analysis or advice.
Shore, I dunno…there’s an old German translation for Adler that means “vulture.”
Maybe she’s just got it in her blood.
Leave Sue alone, she “researched” this.
[62] stu,
Now you understand what our employment group will be facing from the plaintiff’s bar, now that the Trial Lawyers Full Employment Act of 2009 has been enacted.
Good times for us. For U.S. companies, not so much.
[75] jamil,
There isn’t gonna be a trade war with the EU; I used to work in a DC firm with an intl trade group and this talk was common.
Also, once shipments of chardonnay and brie are subject to high tariffs and restrictions, trade war over!
For what it’s worth, Sue has been extremely helpful in our search for comps for our annual tax appeals hoping that one day she’ll sell us a house. Although, her post looks like a NAR retread, I do believe that she is a very reasonable RE expert. The simple fact that she even found this blog impresses me.
Of course, I disagree with her assertion, “those of you who want to wait for more price drops are kidding yourselves.” We made it very clear to her that we would not be looking at least until January of 2010 and we’ll see if here statement turns out to be true or not.
I guess what I’m saying is go easy on her troops.
From the Tribune-Review:
PNC plans to slash 5,800 jobs by 2011
PNC Financial Services Group plans to cut about 5,800 jobs by 2011, or nearly 10 percent of its 59,595-person workforce combined in the merger with National City Corp.
PNC announced the move as it recorded a quarterly loss of $248 million, which included $380 million in costs connected with its acquisition of the troubled Cleveland-based bank Dec. 31.
The layoffs are part of a two-year plan to integrate the banks that is expected to save about $1.2 billion a year in combined expenses. PNC will begin converting National City branches in the second half of this year.
PNC did not disclose how many jobs would be cut from which bank or in which markets.
75 Jamil,
Protectionism will be our last straw. It will brake the camels back.
seneca (37)-
Yep, that hit the gag reflex within 10 seconds.
[70] Sue Adler,
If you can get me what I paid for my house in Westfield just 6 months ago, you’re hired.
And after that, perhaps you can teach us that lead into gold alchemy stuff.
“I’m told a complimentary meal is served”
“Complimentary? Did I say complimentary? I meant to say imaginary. Sorry, I keep getting those two words confused; I used to sell real estate in North Jersey. Anything other than ‘Buy,’ ‘Buy now or forever be priced out of the market, and ‘proximity to NY makes this area different’ confuses me.”
Sue (70):
Why don’t you post regularly and let us know how many houses you have sold this year compared to 2002-2008. That would be enjoyable,
[91] stu
“she is a very reasonable RE expert”
Willing to give you the benefit of the doubt since I have met and used some decent brokers, but I felt that most of them were more useful to me as fertilizer. The NAR pitchline didn’t help.
Stu [91],
She may be a RE expert. However, if she is touting train lines, the destination better be DC. The financial engineers are in high demand there. Train to NY? Yes, if you are a psychologist or a psychiatrist. Their business is booming.
“Protectionism will be our last straw. It will brake the camels back”
Well, that and a missile from a Global Hawk or Predator.
All real estate agents are sellers agents.
Never forget that.
Gotta leave for the day. Some folks here think I’m all smart and stuff, so I have to try to make them think I know something before they find out otherwise.
Enjoy the troll-bashing.
Sue (70)-
Is your full name Suzanne?
>>Short Hills, Millburn, Summit, Chatham and Madison
Went to a super bowl party in Short Hills. One guy was mentioning how he is dropping out of the country club because he can’t afford it while his daughter is going to Dartmouth and besides, his golf partner had to drop out due to getting laid off.
Then someone else said at their country club, they are asking members to send weddings, Bar Mitzvahs, and other event parties their way because if they don’t start doing more catering, they won’t be able to keep the club operating at its current level of service since about 35+ member families have already dropped out in the past 6 months and 50+ families have put their membership on “hold” (you pay $1500 a year so you can come back in as a full member again when you are ready without paying the full initiation fee.)
Asking prices are holding up pretty well there. I have seen the same near peak asking prices on some homes I have been following for over 6 months now, so yes, prices are holding up very very well. No doubt.
Wag (80)-
It’s doubly-ironic to hear “you people” coming from an agent who works in a company known for its cult-like use of God, family and American values (like spending your ass off) to rope in the impressionable.
K-W also uses all the tools of multi-level marketing to promise riches to these dopes and keep them on the farm.
I’d welcome Sue as a contrarian voice here. She actually sells quite a lot of houses, and her staff has been phenomenally helpful to us on many occasions even though they know we are not yet ready to buy.
Now if only we could filter out Frank and Jamil…
Stu (104):
You are no shill. The website has 2007-2008 prices. The final prices are going down.
http://www.hsdent.com/tgca_pr.pdf
Anyone read or know anything about “the Great Depression Ahead” Harry S. Dent?
Thanks
Gary (28) — Well, after almost a year of very aggressive marketing, in order to unload my 5-year-old McMansion on the head of a cul-de-sac in the most prestigious development in a NJ Western Essex town, all the way back at the end of last summer the best I could get and had to accept was 28% off peak at that time. About 6 weeks later, another house in the development comparable to the one I had just sold and only a few houses away, but after the fall stock market crash, ended up having to take approximately 35% off peak. I imagine the next one to sell will only be able to move for something like 40% off peak at best.
Absolutely, under no circumstances, should ANYONE post a link to the website of a real estate agent.
The *ONLY* exception allowed is the URL embedded in the name (which doesn’t matter since it is currently broken).
There is absolutely NO WAY that any agency will get direct advertising here without ***ME*** being compensated for it.
This website is a f’ing huge gaping money-eating hole to me.
This site loses me thousands of dollars a year in time (opportunity cost) and direct cash outlays.
For someone to advertise here FREE?
Bullsh|t.
My sister works and husband stays at home and she earns a great salary. But her husband really does it all, lets her travel for work, go on sales calls, even watchs kids on weekends while she networks. Most men I noticed who are forced into child rearing do a poor job, and other than watching them 9-5 pm pretty much that is it and they interupt their wive’s at work. I spoke to sally krawchek once who was CFO of Citi, and basically her husband does everything, she won’t even get up to change a diaper as he is the house husband. I think if we properly neutered and castrated men they would be quite adequate to watch children while their wives became BSDs at work.
Shore Guy says:
February 3, 2009 at 9:16 am
John,
If a married guy stays home with the kids, or just keeps house and cooks because he is better at it than his wife, he would be a fool not to want his wife to earn as much as or more than some guy with the same level job as she and who does not work at her level. Pay according to benefit/value provided to a firm. It seems like many of the “studies” looking at pay levels ignore all sorts of factors unrelated to gender discrimination that influence who gets paid what.
Cindy,
We were just preparing some materials for the Franchise Tax Board. Enjoy your portion of our Calif taxes — whether by check or IOU.
Yes All Hype…hence why I sent the link. Not many realtors put up that kind of info on their website. From our 9 years of looking at NNJ RE, she appears to be the best sellers agent around in the high end foofy train towns. And we have worked with a number of highly reputed agents.
“grim says:
February 3, 2009 at 10:01 am
Absolutely, under no circumstances, should ANYONE post a link to the website of a real estate agent.
The *ONLY* exception allowed is the URL embedded in the name (which doesn’t matter since it is currently broken).”
Hey Grim,
FWIW, it seemed to work when I clicked on the name @ post 70.
With her extensive list of buyers and all of the re inventory, Sue should be too busy making money to post here.
Check Out Sue’s Buyers
LOL
Stu (91)-
“…guess what I’m saying is go easy on her troops.”
No way. Those pronouncements are both unsubstantiated and irresponsible. Until my industry gets its act together and decides that actual dealmaking skill and some understanding of RE and the economy are what the public truly values, we will continue to roll in the common swill of hucksters of all stripes.
RE- as an asset class- will continue to decline in value even after the economy recovers, because the people who are supposed to add value to the transaction have gotten to the point at which they actually remove value.
Grim,
You might make it a policy to require RE agents to use a screen name that bears no relationship to their own name or their employing firm’s name.
#70
Sue, as long as you researched it, how could I go wrong?
http://www.ct.gov/governorrell/cwp/view.asp?A=3675&Q=433172
I hope NJ should do the same:
It is a budget that sets a fundamentally new vision for state government.
A smaller government.
A less expensive government.
A more efficient government.
And most importantly, a government that is more in line with what you – our taxpayers – can afford.
One thing you cannot afford is a higher tax bill. That’s why my budget does not raise taxes.
After all, it makes no sense to raise taxes when the taxes we already collect are down – way down.
Income tax revenue is down.
Sales tax revenue is down.
Corporate tax revenue is down.
People don’t have money to spend, because they have either lost their jobs or are afraid they will.
The deficit we are facing this current fiscal year, which ends June 30, is nearly $1 billion. The red ink for the next two years – the period covered by my proposed budget – is nearly $8 billion.
With revenues falling and deficits rising, it’s vital that state spending come down. And it does come down, under my budget.
I have worked long and hard on my plan – and yes, it calls for sacrifice. It makes cuts that will be painful.
My budget does what your family budget does – it pays for those things that we must have and it sets aside those things that are nice to have but that we cannot afford to pay for right now.
Families are making these same tough decisions every day – finding ways to cut back.
State government must do the same.
There will be some, particularly those in government, who say we can’t, we shouldn’t, cut so much.
And there will be special interests – many of whom get their money from government – saying, “How could you?”
They will be calling for new and higher taxes, saying it’s an issue of balance and fairness.
Of course they will never admit that it’s you who will be paying those taxes, because in the end it always is you. Tax increases balanced on your backs when you can least afford it is hardly fair.
Yes, they will protest and petition – in fact, many have already started, just knowing that I will not raise taxes and that I am cutting spending in my budget.
That is their right.
Sue Adler says:
February 3, 2009 at 9:21 am
Those of you who want to wait for more price drops are kidding yourselves. Realtors are pricing houses right and you people need to be buyers. Work with a good realtor who can get you a loan and get that house today. There is no better value than New Jersey real estate along the train lines!
….
Sue, I know you’re advertising your real estate business but please don’t insult my intelligence. I’m renting in a luxury high rise for a fraction of what it would cost to live in a shack. Because of the housing glut, we were able to renegotiate our lease terms, making our rent even cheaper then last year. Until it becomes less expensive to own then to rent, we will continue to enjoy not paying exorbitant property taxes, not having to mow or shovel, not having to pay for water and if my appliances break, the building replaces them. On the other hand, my relative’s home in Morganville is worth $100k less than when it was bought. Their property taxes are increased every year and they pay $600/mo on electricity on average. Let’s not get into all the maintenance paid out when windows and rooves and plumbing need to be replaced. Who knows when they’ll be able to break even. The reality is, they may never be able to do so. This is one example of many around us who are drowning in their homes.
Despite your claims, prices have dropped and will continue to do so. A home is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. Period. Judging by the amount of homes on the market, people are pulling out their calculators and doing the math for themselves.
From Bloomberg:
Pending Home Resales in U.S. Rose 6.3% as Prices, Rates Dropped
More Americans signed contracts to buy previously owned homes in December for the first time in four months, signaling slumping prices may be boosting demand.
The index of pending home resales climbed 6.3 percent to 87.7, the first increase since August, from a revised 82.5 in November, the National Association of Realtors said in a report today in Washington. Pending sales rose in two of four regions.
Record foreclosures are pushing down home values, making homes more affordable for those buyers able to get financing. Still, restrictive lending rules and further price declines are likely to scare away the majority of purchasers, indicating the real-estate recession will persist for a fourth year in 2009.
“We do not expect to see a stabilization of the market until the home prices decline considerably further,” Maxwell Clarke, chief U.S. economist at IDEAglobal in New York, said before the report. “Any calls of a market bottom remain incredibly premature.”
Economists forecast pending sales to be unchanged in December after an originally reported drop of 4 percent in the prior month, according to the median forecast of 28 economists in a Bloomberg News survey. Estimates ranged from a drop of 5 percent to a 2 percent increase.
The report showed pending resales jumped 13 percent in both the South and Midwest regions. Signed purchase contracts declined 3.7 percent in the West and 1.7 percent in the Northeast.
From MarketWatch:
U.S. 4Q vacancy rate for owned homes rises to record 2.9%
U.S. 4Q homeowner rate falls to 67.5%
U.S. homeownership rate lowest since 2001
3 Grim:
Why would anyone want to do business with a company named FOX and ROACH?
I know someone who started a business called “T & A”
We tried to talk him to atleast changing it to A & T.
He didn’t.
He lasted a year. I don’t know how much the name hurt, but it certainly didn’t help.
Wendy,
As LLoyd Bentson might have said to Governor Rell.
“Governor, I know Jon Corzine. Jon Corzine is a friend of mine. Governor, youare no Jon Corzine.”
Trust me. The foo-foo towns and the 6-figure jobs are the ones getting whacked the hardest in NJ right now. Of the wave of people who contacted me 3-4 weeks ago, over half of them weren’t even candidates for short sale…they were so bad off, I referred them to BK attorneys who put them straight into Chapter 7. The cheapest primary residence amongst that crew was purchased for 700K in 2004.
The two BK families at the Super Bowl party I attended on Sunday had family incomes in excess of 200K.
Cindy – Don’t bother reading it. This is the same guy who came out with a book in 2005 with predictions of Dow 50000 or something in the range. He is just a statistician looking to make some money by writing books.
http://www.hsdent.com/tgca_pr.pdf
Anyone read or know anything about “the Great Depression Ahead” Harry S. Dent?
Thanks
I love the smell of capitulation in the morning.
The report showed pending resales jumped 13 percent in both the South and Midwest regions. Signed purchase contracts declined 3.7 percent in the West and 1.7 percent in the Northeast.
_______________________________________________
So the flyover ‘merikans buy more houses for less and we in the Northeast are buying less. We have a long way to go here in NJ.
“Still, restrictive lending rules and further price declines are likely to scare away the majority of purchasers”
THIS is the way the market is supposed to work, no? Banks get burned. Banks adjust lending practices. Things come into balance. Between banks tightening lending standards and personal savings rstes going from negative to something in the 3% range, bank balance sheets should start to improve a bit one would think.
New thread coming up.
UNITED REFNG CO SR NT 10.50000% 08/15/2012
Price (Ask) 64.000
Yield to Worst (Ask) 26.938%
bond of day!
New thread, move it up!
Sue I can’t decide if your antics are just some clever humor or totally serious.
I hope it is the former, because if it is the latter, it reeks of desperation.
OK Clot…You win.
I’m beginning to think that the post was not from her anyway. She is not the type to use the ‘you people’ moniker. Just as well, it could have been someone from her office.
>>Short Hills, Millburn, Summit, Chatham and Madison
I live in Chatham and track home prices pretty closely. On Sub-optimal homes prices have dropped considerably. A busy street or a house that needs work will sit and sit and eventually sell for considerably less than its peers on less busy streets. In the old days the discount was very slight for these types of homes but now it is large and growing. For the premier streets I still see 2004-5 prices but they are dropping slowly. We just had a house sell across from us that would have gone for mid 600’s at the height of the market in a second and it just sold for $549. It was a great house but it needed updating as it had not been touched in decades. The declines will spread to towns like Chatham, it will just take more time. I also track foreclosures and they are increasing every month. Homes that have been on the market for ages are slowly dropping out due to foreclosure. A town such as Chatham has a very heavy percentage of its residents that rely on Wall Street for their income. Every week I hear more and more of my neighbors getting the axe. It is just a matter of time before their savings run out and they are forced to sell. I had a conversation during the Super Bowl about a club I want to join. I told the current member that I am up for the yearly fee but will not pay the bond since it is non refundable. 2009 will be Armageddon for these types of discretionary expenditures.
Sue Adler @ 9:21 writes: “Those of you who want to wait for more price drops are kidding yourselves. Realtors are pricing houses right and you people need to be buyers.”
Why must realtors lie? Why not focus your attention on delusional sellers?
33 Twin Oak Road
Short Hills, NJ 07078
Jan 23, 2008 – $2,395,000 – MLS # 2479522
Feb 21, 2008 – $2,295,000
Mar 11, 2008 – $2,195,000
Mar 20, 2008 – $1,999,000
Apr 03, 2008 – $1,995,000
Apr 12, 2008 – $1,994,000
Apr 13, 2008 – $1,899,000
Apr 14, 2008 – WITHDRAWN
Apr 15, 2008 – $1,899,000 – MLS # 2507979
May 01, 2008 – $1,878,888
Jul 09, 2008 – $1,850,000
Aug 06, 2008 – WITHDRAWN
Oct 02, 2008 – $1,800,000 – MLS # 2585669
Jan 02, 2009 – WITHDRAWN
Jan 06, 2009 – $1,695,000 – MLS # 2625008
Jan 30, 2009 – $1,595,000
RE: “I’m beginning to think that the post was not from her anyway.”
You’re dreaming — that post is exactly in line with her marketing materials.
In addition, she publishes monthly reports with substantially distorted sales information (incorrect DOM and original list prices). Every month, more of the same propaganda, more of the same lies.
Last!
Sue’s post was truly creepy.
Six Trillion is a lot, but our industry needs to take on our problems region-by-region, state-by-state and city-by-city and it becomes less daunting.