From the Home News Tribune:
Cost of living and doing business pushing people to leave N.J.
Fanklin resident Jim Morano and his wife recently acquired a home in South Carolina after his wife’s sister and mother passed away.
The couple plans on keeping the home as a winter getaway, but they’re also wondering whether it should be their permanent residence because of New Jersey’s income-tax rates, among the highest in the nation. Both own small businesses.
“We’re kind of scratching our head,” said Morano, who has a Ph.D. in food science and a master’s degree in business administration. “If you already own a residence outside of New Jersey, at some point in time, the differential is going to pay you to leave.”
…
Adam Shapiro and Suzanne Hayes work out of Weidel Realtors’ Lambertville-New Hope, Pa. office. Shapiro knows firsthand about the moves across the river, since his and Hayes’ office in Lambertville moved to New Hope this year, leaving a kiosk in Lambertville.“It’s a big issue, a major issue,” Shapiro said. “Property taxes are much lower in (Pennsylvania) than in New Jersey. I would say that of the people I have sold houses to that lived in New Jersey and moved to (Pennsylvania), at least 50 percent was due to the higher tax rates in Jersey and lower insurance rates in (Pennsylvania), including auto insurance.”
The state saw a deceleration of population growth starting in 2002 and a sharp acceleration in the number of residents moving to other states, according to a 2007 study by James W. Hughes, dean of the Edward J. Bloustein School of Planning and Public Policy at Rutgers University; Joseph J. Seneca, a professor at the Bloustein School; and Research Associate Will Irving.
Because of the overall net outflow of people since the start of the decade, New Jersey’s aggregate adjusted gross income was reduced by $7.9 billion in 2005, and the total annual state tax loss that year approached $539 million, according to the report.
Hughes said the bursting of the housing bubble slowed moves nationwide, but out migration from New Jersey has continued at a muted pace.
Hughes said the high cost of living here is a key reason why people are leaving. For example, while the median household income in New Jersey is 33 percent higher than the rest of the nation, the state’s median housing cost, including property taxes, is 56 percent higher, Hughes said.
Frist
From Online Casino Advisory:
Atlantic City’s First Casino in Jeopardy of Closing
Even though there have been several major casino bankruptcies this past year, including such high-profile examples as Station Casinos and Trump Entertainment, most operations continued with business as normal on the gaming floor. But the Resorts Casino Hotel, the first casino to open in Atlantic City when New Jersey legalized casinos, not only may go bankrupt, but actually close down.
…
But Resorts is in worse condition than others. The casino has not made a mortgage payment in almost a year. The casino’s operators have filed a request with regulators to give the company’s lenders control and ownership of the historic gaming venue.
“Resorts has experienced the same downdraft in their cash flows as all other Atlantic City operators,” analyst Andrew Zarnett told the Philadelphia Inquirer. “However, by being one of the smaller operators in the market, instead of reduced profit, they’ve experienced absolute losses .”
Also from the Home News Tribune:
Jobs end for many as Perth Amboy steel plant shutdown proceeds
After more than 29 years as a steel plant lab technician, Hipolito J.R. Rivera of South Plainfield lost his job Friday.
“It was very emotional. There were people with tears,” said Rivera, president of United Steelworkers of America Local 9473.
Friday was the last day of work for many workers at the Gerdau Ameristeel mill in Perth Amboy. He said about 110 of the 165 employees, including management, were laid off. Rivera said some maintenance workers and management will remain until Oct. 31.
“Ninety-five percent of the employees were released today,” said Rivera. He said production stopped on Aug. 28 and workers have spent the last two weeks helping to decommission the mill. He said today is officially the last day, but most employees don’t work on Saturday.
More U.S. home sellers cutting prices – Trulia
NEW YORK, Sept 11 (Reuters) – More than one in four U.S. homes for sale on Sept. 1 had their prices cut at least once since landing on the market, up slightly from a month earlier, a study showed on Friday.
Driving the increase was the pending expiration of the government’s $8,000 tax credit for first-time home buyers — part of the stimulus bill — and summer months which are the peak sales period, according to data compiled by Trulia.com.
Nationwide, in dollar terms, $28.5 billion has been reduced for all homes for sale on the market on September 1, up by more than $1.1 billion from June to September, the data showed.
August WARN Notices posted:
http://lwd.dol.state.nj.us/labor/lwdhome/warn/2009/0809warn.html
DELAWARE NORTH COMPANIES – 67
BROOKS BROTHERS CUST SVC – 96
PREMIER DISTRIBUTION SERVICE – 96
NYK LINE (NORTH AMERICA) INC. – 58
GERRESHEIMER GLASS, INC – 150
TREE OF LIFE, INC. – 10
NCO CUSTOMER MANAGEMENT, INC. – 145
CENTER STATE HEALTH GROUP, INC. – 261
TRI-STATE TRANSPORTATION – 62
Home Buyers Are Losing Bargaining Power: 5 Things to Know
1. Florida: bargain hunter’s paradise: Home shoppers in Florida were able to squeeze the largest discounts out of sellers. In Vero Beach, for example, buyers were able to knock 10 percent—or a median of $23,500—off the listing price. Buyers in Sarasota landed discounts of about 8 percent. “The fact that many Florida markets are still showing comparatively higher differences between the last listing price and final sale price suggests that inventory levels are still relatively high, keeping considerable downward pressure on prices and encouraging buyers to seek large discounts off the listing price,” Humphries said. However, certain hard-hit markets in California were less kind to bargain shoppers. In El Centro, home buyers had to fork over nearly 2 percent more than listing prices. In other parts of the state—such as Stockton, Merced, Sacramento, Fresno, Modesto, Yuba City, and Riverside—asking and listing prices were about the same.
5. Tax credit expiration: Patrick Newport, an economist at IHS Global Insight, cautions that the shrinking spread between listing and selling prices could widen in the future. He notes that at least some of the recent demand for housing is being stoked by the government’s tax incentive, which expires December 1. “One reason the margin is narrowing and that buyers are losing power is because there are more people out their trying to take advantage of the credit and demand is up,” he says. “Our call is that once this incentive goes away, sales are going to take a hit.” As a result, Newport says the spread will “probably” widen after the tax credit expires.
Deserters and discounts in a downturn
New Jersey
In New Jersey, some builders — like Carlo Zimatore, president of Artiste Construction — are turning to auctions to sell their units.
“I was trapped. There was no way I could have a conventional sale due to my national lender. Before March 2009, I needed to have 26 percent under contract for sale before the bank would release one dollar to me. On April 15 the rule changed to 51 percent, and on May 15 it was 71 percent.” Zimatore said other national banks were taking the same position — and those were the only banks lending to large or small condo developments.
As a result, Zimatore said he hired Max Spann, Real Estate & Auction Co., a nationwide auction company, to auction off 20 of his 24 luxury condos on Carlson’s Court in North Bergen, N. J.
On Aug. 9, in a little more than 60 minutes, condo units that had been for sale for up to $500,000 sold for an average $316,000 a piece.
“It makes sense for builders to auction now instead of carrying costs for these condo buildings,” says Bob Dann, vice president in charge of operations for the auction company. “With an auction, you create a sense of opportunity and urgency — and people want to buy. That’s why all 20 units sold.”
In Clot’s neck of woods,
Prestigious Estate set on 8.87+/- acres
Hunterdon County,
Franklin Twp,
New Jersey
Minimum Bid $750,000 Previously Asking $2,275,000
WARN notice is what? impending layoffs?
#9 – Worker notification of mass layoffs or facility closures.
Ghost Fleet of the Recession
The biggest and most secretive gathering of ships in maritime history lies at anchor east of Singapore. Never before photographed, it is bigger than the U.S. and British navies combined but has no crew, no cargo and no destination – and is why your Christmas stocking may be on the light side this year.
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/09/ghost-fleet-of-the-recession/
– from the Home News Article – anecdata. My brother was a Pennsylvanian working in NJ. Did the three hour daily commute to avoid taxes. Took a transfer to South Carolina, even lower taxes but had to send the two kids to private school because the schools were horrid. He pays 30k a year for school and $1k in taxes. No police force in town, private everything. 30k for 8 years = $240k. Savings?
So our Prez is headed over to Federal Hall on Wall Street to whine about Lehman brothers. I was in the mood for a nice blueberry muffin this morning and he made the cart guys move so no blueberry muffin for me. I hate how BO is always movin my cheese. At least new season of GG on tonight.
ACORN is on the news again (of course, State Media excluded). This time handing out mortgages to the pimp and brothel in Brooklyn. Do they have time for voter fraud anymore?
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/pimp_hooker_catch_staff_Js4YPEcsCcxLZhAEehLhmL
This is what your tax-dollars are used for. ACORN is in charge of distributing hundreds of millions to anybody. Handing out money and support for importing underage child prostitutes from South America seems to be the new number 1 goal for ACORN, at least until 2010 elections.
If ACORN were conservative organization, closely linked to the President of The United States, this would be front-page news all over State Media and Pulitzer price had been handed already.
[12] GerryAdams
Unfortunately, in tax land, there is no one size fits all. Perhaps your bro was better off in PA, or even NJ. Depends on what we call a person’s “tax profile.” For some, it will be a great move. Others, not so much.
As for small business people moving, the more troubling aspect is that when they move the bidness, they let X people go. No guarantee that the new state will see X people hired. So, in the end, the NJ tax policy not only hurts NJ but hurts the overall economy if businesses leaving the state use this opportunity to reduce head count, or hold head count down until the uncertainty of the economy, taxes and health care lifts. The result is likely negligible, but even negligible has a cost.
re #5 – Grim Seems Corzine does not want the public to know how bad the pension fund is. No Update since June.
http://www.nj.gov/treasury/doinvest/
[14] jamil
I don’t know if this story still has traction, but the MD Atty Gen. has announced an interest in prosecutions over the ACORN hidden tape expose.
Only they aren’t interested in prosecuting ACORN. Rather, they are apparently interested in prosecuting the people that busted ACORN.
[16] sean
Wonder if the Christie people know that yet??? Might help them pry a few state workers off the Corzine bandwagon.
Probably not though. Those folks are paid well to sit on the bandwagon.
Nassim Taleb on the economy – ‘We still have the same disease’
MW: Now that you’ve painted such a rosy outlook, do you have any advice on how individuals can guard against losing 40 per cent of their money in this extremely risky world?
NT: My advice is that instead of investing in medium-risk securities, you should put most of your money in very low-risk securities, and a little bit in high-risk securities. Then you might get a good black swan. Also, it’s good to have more than one profession, in case your own profession goes out of style. A Wall Street trader who’s also a belly dancer will do a lot better than a trader who winds up driving a taxi.
16 have to keep the sheep in the dark.
you know what happens to sheep when
they don’t have a keeper,, over the cliff
How to Prepare For China’s Coming Derivatives Default
Nom,
Illegal in MD to tape record without consent.
“This is what your tax-dollars are used for. ACORN is in charge of distributing hundreds of millions to anybody. Handing out money and support for importing underage child prostitutes from South America seems to be the new number 1 goal for ACORN, at least until 2010 elections.”
How do you know they’re underage? How do you know they are from South America? Maybe your name should be John and not Jamil?
Anecdata from Brigadoon.
At a PTO event yesterday, it was all civil and nice and smiles, but when I got there late, I was talking to some folks about the new Lincoln School where Westfield put all their kindergarteners in a newly refurbished school building and instituted 1/2 day kindergarten.
The reviews were consistent with everything I had heard thus far. Negative. Universally panned. A complete flop (probably on the magnitude of something Montclair would do).
And the tone of some parents regarding the taxes to pay for this diminished level of service was similar to a TEA party.
I don’t know if the elementary school principal got the undercurrent. But his teachers already had a low opinion of the Lincoln School.
How bad is it? Mrs. Deplume, who usually defers to me on fiscal matters, is adamant about putting Thing 2 into private kindergarten when she comes of age, and I agree. Remains to be seen if the Brigadoon council gets the message.
[22] Dissident
Thanks. Wasn’t sure (not an MD attorney and never will be).
In hindsight, I seem to recall this was an issue with Linda Tripp as well. If I were the tapers though, I would fight like hell to get a change of venue to Washington county.
Tax News of the Day:
“The New Jersey Administrative Code at N.J.A.C. 18:35-5.2 requires income taxation on the composite return (NJ-1080C) at the highest rate. However, the Division is allowing the use of two rates in order to encourage nonresident individuals to elect to participate in a composite return.
As a result of new legislation (P.L. 2009, c. 69), the NJ-1080C nonresident composite return has been modified so that for tax year 2009, the two tax rates applied are 6.37% and 10.75%.
Therefore, 2009 composite return filers may continue to apply the 6.37% rate on the income from the entity preparing and filing the NJ-1080C return for participating individuals with New Jersey sourced income of less than $250,000 each. The new highest rate of 10.75% is applied to participants with New Jersey sourced income of $250,000 and above.”
23 dissident: “How do you know they’re underage? How do you know they are from South America?”
Because in the video (at least in ACORN Baltimore/DC office, I didn’t check this video yet) the “pimp” and the “prostitute” openly said they are importing underage girls from South America for prostitution, and helpful ACORN officials provided advise on tax fraud and how to avoid getting caught by police.
See, you should read actual news sometimes, not just State Media reports.
This sort of investigate journalism is something newspapers did in earlier era. Today, State Media has different goals..
#12 Good strawman there Paddy. I’m sure there isn’t 1 good school in South Carolina.
“Movin’ Out!”
If you can’t afford this state please move out, I hope everyone leaves.
does it take less time to close if you don’t have an existing mortgage as a seller?
22 dissident: “Illegal in MD to tape record without consent.”
Can you imagine the outrage if NYT had been tape-recording Karl Rove or KKK scheming something like this, and State AG (with close links to KKK and President) decided to prosecute only NYT ?
There would already be 25 Hollywood movies under production and Pulitzer prices handed out for exposing this rotten organization, closely linked to the President of the US.
Since this is a professional left-wing voter fraud/tax fraud/child prostitution organization, things are of course different.
I seem to recall what NYT did (in exposing state secrets) was actual felony, but Bush decided not to go after them.
re: Lehman and Obama speach today.
Did anyone read the Esquire article?
Be sure to do so if you are planning on listening to his speech.
http://www.esquire.com/print-this/barclays-deal-of-the-century-1009-2
22 dissident:
One more thing. Press has always been hysterical about freedom of the press, especially when exposing corruption or crime and all media organizations and newspapers join forces in defending the journalist.
Waiting to see those hysteric NYT front-page articles defending the journalists here /sarc
jamil – does the term preaching to the choir mean anything to you?
Perhaps you would be better off over at the huffington post. There you will find plenty of people willing to debate you on your favorite subject matter.
#12 Gerry Adams
That’s a lot of money for 2 kids in a private school. I’ll bet he could find a cheaper school that would meet his kids’ academic needs, but prefers whatever it is the pricey school offers over the lower priced but probably academically fine cheaper private schools. So I don’t think it’s exactly comparable to taxes where if you choose the public school you get what you get.
This got buried….
37.chicagofinance says:
September 13, 2009 at 9:51 pm
JJ & Bost: J-E-T-S Jets, Jets, Jets…
New World Currency Introduction
This week the world’s financial markets will see the first ever execution and settlement of a trade conducted in Wocus(TM) (World Currency Unit), the newly-introduced world currency. The Wocu has been developed as a derived world currency unit to allow corporations, financial institutions, governments and even individuals to trade across national boundaries and hold foreign assets with minimal risk of losses caused by exchange rate fluctuations.
Jets rocked the house and Derrek Jetter watch out the girls are going Mark Sanchez crazy. Then again half the girls wearing Jeter shirts are 14-21 and that gets a little creepy now that Derek is 35!! Sanchez is 22. I am mad I sold my Pats tickets but it covered my preseason tickets, starting at the Titans games my butt will be firmly planted row one between the 40’s for the next four games.
CHIFI – Bad Aniversary today, do you still have your Lehman bonds?
chicagofinance says:
September 14, 2009 at 9:24 am
This got buried….
37.chicagofinance says:
September 13, 2009 at 9:51 pm
JJ & Bost: J-E-T-S Jets, Jets, Jets…
1. Teaching Math In 1950s
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price. What is his profit ?
2. Teaching Math In 1960s
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price, or $80. What is his profit?
3. Teaching Math In 1970s
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80. Did he make a profit?
4. Teaching Math In 1980s
A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80 and his profit is $20. Your assignment: Underline the number 20.
5. Teaching Math In 1990s
A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the preservation of our woodlands. He does this so he can make a profit of $20. What do you think of this way of making a living? Topic for class participation after answering the question: How did the birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes? (There are no wrong answers, and if you feel like crying, it’s ok. )
6. Teaching Math In 2009
Un hachero vende una carretada de maderapara $100. El costo de la producciones es $80. Cuanto dinero ha hecho?
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/09/an-economics-lesson-from-ferris-buellers-day-off/
Since we use Bueller’s name here so often – thought you might enjoy this tidbit from TBP:
“An Economic Lesson From “Ferris Bueller’s Day Off”
Nom- was kindergarten previously full day?
What are most districs?
John-
I hope you didn’t sell those Jets tix to a Pats fan !!!
You did pre-screen all applicants, right ?
Ellen RE#35..
When I read 30k for 2 kids in private school, I too thought the same thing…that is a lot of $$ for private school. My kids go private here in Bergen County and we don’t pay that much. Now here the privates have to compete with public school’s that a lot of people think are good..perhaps the terrible reputation of the public schools down in So Carolina give those private schools the opportunity to charge whatever they want…
43/Laurie…
That would be cheap in Brooklyn. One school a friend looked at was $17k for half day kindergarten. Over $20k for 1st through 5 grades.
For, $700 a pair I would have sold them to Charles Manson. But to my suprise a Jets fan was high bidder.
Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:
September 14, 2009 at 9:54 am
John-
I hope you didn’t sell those Jets tix to a Pats fan !!!
You did pre-screen all applicants, right ?
The school on 25 Broad Street is 24K for Pre-School.
[38] john
with any luck, you will be happy you sold your Jets-Pats tix.
At least I am hoping for your happiness as to that game. The rest, not so much.
[41] stan
I think so, but I moved to brigadoon a year ago from out of state, so I really cannot say with any certainty.
#43 & #44 Laurie & BklynHawk
Good point Laurie. I didn’t think of that.
Bklyn – my kids go to private school too and for my daughter the tuition is more than 15k, for my boys, it’s a lot less. I could send my daughter to the same school as the boys which is academically fine, but it’s not as good a fit for her personally, so we pay the extra to meet her particular situation.
#46…WHAT?? That’s crazy and another reason we moved out of the city when our first 2 were ready for school.
#46 John
Idiotic, isn’t it? You wonder if they learn a better alphabet?
They also do pre-school to HS at Clairidge. So that is a total of 15 years at 24K a year. That is 360K a kid through HS, I see parents who drop of 2 or 3 kids.
John says:
September 14, 2009 at 10:10 am
The school on 25 Broad Street is 24K for Pre-School.
Q: There is a private pre-school run out of one of the public elementary schools in Colts Neck. My wife was considering it and wanted to come in to observe. They said no prospective parents are allowed to observe. Any parent signing up is given an orientation the day before the first day of class for their child.
I am thinking WTF? Opinions?
jamil:
“Can you imagine the outrage if NYT had been tape-recording Karl Rove or KKK scheming something like this, and State AG (with close links to KKK and President) decided to prosecute only NYT ?”
*only*?? As far as I know, the ACORN workers were fired, and investigations are ongoing. You want a complete dismantling of ACORN?? [a parallel with troop abuses in Iraq — would you have called an investigation of armed forces or investigation of private contractors?] — or overcharging by Cheney’s company that got no bid contracts.
These anecdata are getting scary. One about an “illegal alien” who was “let go” when he “killed someone driving through a stop sign” [or something like that]. Was he let go simply because he was “illegal”? Or should he have been found gulity simply because he was “illegal”? In the absence of specifics of the case, one could only argue whether the prosecutor/judge made a mistake, but to say “illegals are killing our people and are getting away with it” is poisoning the debate.
S
chifi 53
seems odd to me. my understanding is that an escorted tour seems to be the norm. especially for the higher end stuff we looked at for kettle jr
John says:
September 14, 2009 at 9:31 am
6. Teaching Math In 2009
Un hachero vende una carretada de maderapara $100. El costo de la producciones es $80. Cuanto dinero ha hecho?
JJ: I’ll tell you that my son’s religiously watches Curious George on PBS-Kids. It hacks me off to no end that the studio hostess is a woman who constantly peppers her dialogue with Spanish. There is no reason defendable reason for it other than pandering. I think what pisses me off more is that some of it is Spanglish, which means she is teaching gutter Spanish to boot. Pathetic.
kettle1 says:
September 14, 2009 at 10:35 am
chifi 53 seems odd to me. my understanding is that an escorted tour seems to be the norm. especially for the higher end stuff we looked at for kettle jr
ket: I agree. I am trying to figure out the cause. It is possible that they are consistently oversubscribed, so they have the luxury of weeding out meddling parents by having these people self-selected away. If they push away people like us, so be it. They are probably looking for a group of docile/absentee parents, and are likely very effective at achieving their goal.
#53 Chi – Run.
Any school should be happy to let parents observe. If they don’t want classes disrupted they should allow discreet observation from outside the room. Good schools should have an open door policy with families.
Occasionally you get the crazy overbearing parents trying to run the show. They may be trying to avoid that, but if they are not confident in their abilities to handle such parents, that may not be good.
Of course, your area is full of bored yuppy parents so maybe they just had enough of that kind of parent behaviour.
Luckily the economy means that many pre-schools are suffering dropping enrollment so there will be plenty of other options.
My advice would be to find a school you are comfortable with and that your kid really likes (as well as parents that seem OK). Preschool is really about socialization, not academics and that is the most important thing to remember.
l: thanks
“You wonder if they learn a better alphabet?”
Ellen, Chi,
I think there is a hige difference in the quality of these daycare/preschools. We interviewed about 10 of them last spring and also showed up unannounced during school hours to do tours. Some of the bigger names like kinder kare, goddard and kiddy academy were like a russian orphanages, kids crying their eyes out, dirty floors, overwhelmed and unprepared staff… just miserable in some cases.
We finally found a great little montessori and thought it wise to pony up a few extra bucks.
Chi, We got the gestapo act a couple times too but tell your wife that the trick is to show up with the child in hand and act like you are in a rush and just want to take a quick peak since you are not happy with your current pre-school. They will usually let you snoop around real quick although we still got denied once or twice.
BTW – I won’t get into specifics, but I spoke with a high profile private children’s school in Eastern Monmouth county on a lead for business. Expensive tuition. The total school enrollment for 2008-2009 was half the level of 2005-2006.
I really could have helped these guys out on a number of levels, not the least of which they were about to make a large investment in infrastructure. However, these guys have the non-for-profit mentality and think that people in my position should understand their “mission”. Instead of tossing me a couple K for some help, they probably went and pissed away several $100K on a massive money pit……stupid idiots….I am not even a sales-ey kind of guy. It is really frustrating watching all these people around here making fundamental mistakes, and they won’t let me help them.
veto that says:
September 14, 2009 at 10:44 am
Chi, We got the gestapo act a couple times too but tell your wife that the trick is to show up with the child in hand and act like you are in a rush and just want to take a quick peak since you are not happy with your current pre-school. They will usually let you snoop around real quick although we still got denied once or twice.
v: genius!
54 sastry: “*only*?? As far as I know, the ACORN workers were fired, and investigations are ongoing”
There isn’t much ACORN can do after its employees were caught on video. Yeah, it is like wanting to dismantle mafia after few dozens of its bosses are caught.
ACORN has been systematically committing voter fraud, tax fraud (not just 1 employee, but seems to be normal pattern) and fund misuse all over the country. It is a criminal enterprise, in the sense of RICO. It could be compared to KKK (though KKK does not receive billions worth of taxpayer money and it is not inherently linked to White House).
It is scary that organization like ACORN can operate freely and getting tons of tax-payer money.
#60 veto –
For sure there’s a huge difference in preschools. I’ve heard the Russian orphanage thing about Goddard before. And if a parent needs daycare, sometimes they need to pony up the big bucks to avoid warehousing. But regular preschool for a child not in daycare is mostly about socialization and something that can happen in a church basement.
not scary on acorn at all. what did you expect. we have been sold down the river
suprised they are not more active in trenton
Chi-fi,
most of the nicer places we looked at for kettle jr readily invited us to spend time observing the overall school and individual classes.
Veto,
we are getting ready to transition kettle jr into a montessori program and are very excited about it. It seems to fit his personality very well.
Ellen says:
September 14, 2009 at 10:52 am
#60 veto – For sure there’s a huge difference in preschools. I’ve heard the Russian orphanage thing about Goddard before. And if a parent needs daycare, sometimes they need to pony up the big bucks to avoid warehousing. But regular preschool for a child not in daycare is mostly about socialization and something that can happen in a church basement.
Ellen: the Goddard in Tinton Falls is of this type.
Calling all Met’s Fans, now that the Met’s are officially eliminated from postseason play
you might as well get ready for the 2010 season.
Imagine wearing this piece of Mets memorabilia next time you saunter in to Citi Field?
http://sports.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=716&Lot_No=82287
Lenny needs a helping hand. Put in a bid for his 1986 Championship ring.
Feel Free to Forward this one on………………
kettle1 says:
September 14, 2009 at 10:54 am
Veto, we are getting ready to transition kettle jr into a montessori program and are very excited about it. It seems to fit his personality very well.
ket: is it the one near Chester?
Chi – personally, I wouldn’t send my kid to a school that wouldn’t let me observe. That said, I don’t think I ever observed my kids’ preschools before they went to them – ha! I just went by what other moms said and my own schedule/needs at the time. For instance, child number 3 went to the Baptist nursery school because they had a car line drop off and pick up and I wouldn’t need to take child #4 out of the car if he was napping.
Chi – there is a montessori in Marlboro that has a pretty good reputation. Not sure if that is out of your way though. Maybe check it out..
http://marlboromontessoriacademy.com/
Sean says:
September 14, 2009 at 10:55 am
Calling all Met’s Fans, now that the Met’s are officially eliminated from postseason play you might as well get ready for the 2010 season.
Lenny needs a helping hand. Put in a bid for his 1986 Championship ring.
Feel Free to Forward this one on………………
Sean: just sent to the four corners of the earth
chifi,
there are a few near chester, but yes this one is near chester
afe says:
September 14, 2009 at 11:00 am
Chi – there is a montessori in Marlboro that has a pretty good reputation. Not sure if that is out of your way though. Maybe check it out..
http://marlboromontessoriacademy.com/
Gold – thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CHifi,
the place in chester seems to actively encourage parent involvement
chifi.
take a look at this website as well. it might give you a few leads.
http://www.amshq.org/schls/nj.html
Chi – As your wife is very hands on (according to your posts) you might want to look for a co-operative pre-school. In my neck of the woods they are very popular and highly regarded.
#61 – Chi,
The worst thing you can do with a non-profit is approach them with a “business expertise as cure-all” approach.
Sales is all about connecting with people at their own level.
If you are looking to reach area non-profits I would seriously suggest studying their terminology and perspective.
ket, goodluck with it…
Ours likes it so far.
Chifi – That’s absolutely ridiculous about the preshool. Lil Gator’s preschool not only gave me a tour, but allowed me to sit in and observe for a whole day before we enrolled him. They also let me bring him for the day so I could observe him in their environment.
Re The full day/half day Kindergarten question, according to NJEA propaganda, only about 1/3 of the state is still half-day. I am really surprised that a town such as Westfield is not full day. The only town that I know of in our neck of the woods that is not full-day is Bloomfield. And Bloomfield is definitely not a desireable school district.
http://www.njea.org/page.aspx?z=1368&a=3879
John (38),
Rex Ryans defense is straight VIOLENT. Brady get your tub ready next week.
The Pats may win next Sunday but they’re sure gonna hurt on Monday.
Tuition at $30,000 for two kids sound reasonable in comparison to the below. I haven’t seen tuition much less than this at non-religious private schools.
This following is annual tuition for one child.
Rutgers Prep $24,812
Princeton Day School
$23,140 – prekindergarten through four
$27,040 – grades five and six
$28,340 – grades seven through twelve
Hun School
Yearly Tuition (Day Students) $28,390
Chi,
RE: “There is no reason defendable reason for it other than pandering.”
If they continually varied things and covered the French, German, Italian, and Japanese words for “spoon” it would be defensible as education. But if they only cover Spanish, it’s simply indoctrination.
Wait until the “history” classes enter the picture in school.
#67 Kettle.
Which one, we looked at a few montessori and settled with the one in Sparta. Depending on which direction you drive, you have a good choice around where you are.
chi (53)-
Just ask them if their torture rack is kept clean. Don’t want little Schuyler coming down with the swine flu, do we?
“They said no prospective parents are allowed to observe.”
re: swine flu
Harry Smith from the CBS Early Show is out, supposedly he may have H1N1.
What kind of panic will be created if the news anchors start dropping dead?
http://www.todaysthv.com/news/ksink/story.aspx?storyid=90860&catid=70
It is absolutely ridiculous that you are pandering to the needs and wants of a 2 year old. I would say to any parent who wants to come in and observe fine as long as I can come to your place of work and observe you and point out and minor flaws to your boss and ruin your whole work day. Maybe next time you have an operation you might want to scrub in the week before so you can observe the doctor in action prior to your operation. I hate over involved parents. They are usually the same nuts who coach pee-wee soccer and scream at the kids.
NJGator says:
September 14, 2009 at 11:22 am
Chifi – That’s absolutely ridiculous about the preshool. Lil Gator’s preschool not only gave me a tour, but allowed me to sit in and observe for a whole day before we enrolled him. They also let me bring him for the day so I could observe him in their environment.
Montclair Kimberly Tuition:
Grades Amount
Pre-K – 3 $21,800
4 – 5 $24,200
6 – 8 $27,000
9 – 12 $28,800
Jersey City is installing hand santizers in the classrooms to fight the swine flu. From NJ.com:
Hand sanitizer dispensersto be mounted on Jersey City classroom walls
The Jersey City public school district has announced, hand sanitizers will be installed in classrooms to fight against swine flu.
The sanitizers will be monitored by the classroom teacher to make sure students use them upon entrance into the classroom in the morning, before and after lunch, and after each restroom visit, the district said in a news release.
COMMENTS (1)Post a comment
Posted by sonjess on 09/14/09 at 10:57AM
This is great news, since children and teachers are always getting sick during flu season. Now if the borad of ed could supply updated books and materials for teachers to teach and children to use, it would be even greater!
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2009/09/hand_sanitizer_dispensersto_be.html
re #91 – Gator – PURELL Hand Sanitizer is 65% alcohol, won’t be long before the kids are getting high or using it in Chemistry class to make an explosion.
Rip off. lots of church/temple connected pre-schools charge $249 a month. Why $249 cause under 250 canceled check is good enough for tax write off and you don’t need receipt and check is made out to church/temple. BOOOOYAAAAA. So bascially you get 40% off the $249
NJGator says:
September 14, 2009 at 11:56 am
Montclair Kimberly Tuition:
Grades Amount
Pre-K – 3 $21,800
4 – 5 $24,200
6 – 8 $27,000
9 – 12 $28,800
The Lecturer-in-Chief is in full finger wagging and ‘cannot’ mode (think I just counted three in one sentence).
Good thing he visited Wall Street but bussed in a friendly audience – he highlighted Shelley Silver and Barney Frank.
CNBC says there’s enough of a gap in the schedule to allow him to go to the exchange floor. Love to see that one. No palm branches thrown down in his path and no restrictions on use of the word ‘liar’ there……Too bad Santelli wasn’t on one of his NY gigs.
#89 John –
Weirdos take note – John doesn’t care who watches his kid.
24 – Anecdata from Brigadoon.
Nom, do you have any specifics on what people are unhappy about?
My son just started there. My wife was impressed with the principal, but we have no other data points.
On another note, we had our first day of soccer on Saturday in Brigadoon for my 5 year old. Apparently, the town uses grade, rather than age, for group selection. I’m beginning to think he’s the only 5 year old in Kindergarten.
WTF is wrong with this town…
#91 – NJGator
A couple of years ago, there was somewhat of a debate whether or not those hand sanitizers killed off more good bacteria than bad. Has that debate been settled in favor of the hand sanitizers? My daughter has really taken to using the stuff over the past couple of years, and her colds have definitely been less, but I’m not sure if it’s due to a more mature immune system or the Purell.
Daddyo 96 – You didn’t redshirt the little guy? He’s surely doomed to failure now.
People often hold their children back a year, especially boys so when they enter kindergarten they will be the biggest and “smartest” in the class. In the wealthier suburbs of Cleveland, almost no one sends their kids to kindergarten at five. It becomes like the SUV problem. Are you safe in a small car if everyone around you is driving around in Escalades and Hummers?
Anyone any experience with subrogation.
I got a letter from a firm (bunch of ambulance chasers) in FL asking for further details of a health insurance claim I made when I took my kid to the Emergency room to get stitches. They want to check liability and try and recover the costs from another third party insurance if there was one. This is one side of the Insurance industry that really annoys me. Tort reform will not help, they will just keep moving down the food chain.
Health Reform and Insurance reform cannot come quick enough.
Re Swineflu and hand sanitizers
To the best of my knowledge and after looking at a few manufacturers sights it appears that the majority of hand sanitizers are NOT anti-virul. This means that they are ineffective against swineflu (H1N1) or any other viruses. alcohol foams and antimicrobial compounds do not significantly reduce viral loads.
I am second guessing the red-shirt decision, but my wife is standing pat. I guess if we keep him in 2 years of half-day KG, it’s the same was 1 year of full-day.
Right?
PGC 86
westmont. which one in sparta do you use?
Ket 101 What would work?
a dilute sodium hypochlorite solution would reduce viral loads. sodium hypochlorite = bleach. There are some antiviral compunds, available that are starting to pop up that use (Chlorhexidine), an antiviral compound. I am not suggesting you soak your hands in bleach!!!
the best you can do against swine flu is the simple things like avoiding touching your face and washing your hands regularly. washing your hands will reduce viral loads.
SL, could probably comment further on mitigation methods and more authoritatively then i. I just know the chemical/bio side of the matter.
Quite the opposite, My wife stays home as my kids are safety is more important than money. And I don’t need to sit in on pre-school classes as unlike the pagans on this site, my kids only went to parochial pre-school where I know everyone and only older women teach and then to public school where I also know the teachers. No day care for me. Private nursery school and day care is a pedophile breeding ground. The mere fact you need to sit in on a class shows me in general you are not that involved. However, it is scary how some parents are, I went to a 2nd grade girls soccer game on Saturday, new coaches, both male and half the parents dropped off and left. Yea I am leaving a seven year old girl alone with two 40 year old men for an hour. Holy Red Flag Batman. The coaches past my test but the other coach on the other team had a tatoo and touched the girls as they went in and out on the back a little too much. CREEPY.
Ellen says:
September 14, 2009 at 12:25 pm
#89 John –
Weirdos take note – John doesn’t care who watches his kid.
Mike,
hows life? any new adventures?
Mike,
i am not endorsing anything here, but Banflu, appears to be an antiviral hand sanitizer. FYI only.
#39 John,
I resent your turning the question into Spanish because you went back to question #1 and not question #5.
#103 ket
I had mine in Westmont as well. I can say that me and my wife find it to be one of the few things we miss since leaving NJ.
On purpose, when was the last time the lawn service guy undercharged you. Those hombres may poop in my yard but they are good at math.
Danzud says:
September 14, 2009 at 12:52 pm
#39 John,
I resent your turning the question into Spanish because you went back to question #1 and not question #5.
‘Fred Morrison, a developmental psychologist at the University of Michigan who has studied the impact of falling on one side or the other of the birthday cutoff, sees the endless “graying of kindergarten,” as it’s sometimes called, as coming from a parental obsession not with their children’s academic accomplishment but with their social maturity. “You couldn’t find a kid who skips a grade these days,” Morrison told me. “We used to revere individual accomplishment. Now we revere self-esteem, and the reverence has snowballed in unconscious ways — into parents always wanting their children to feel good, wanting everything to be pleasant.” So parents wait an extra year in the hope that when their children enter school their age or maturity will shield them from social and emotional hurt. Elizabeth Levett Fortier, a kindergarten teacher in the George Peabody Elementary School in San Francisco, notices the impact on her incoming students. “I’ve had children come into my classroom, and they’ve never even lost at Candy Land.”’
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/magazine/03kindergarten-t.html?scp=2&sq=kindergarten+redshirting&st=nyt
[96] daddyo
1. 1/2 day is useless; less than 2 hours effective teaching time.
2. cirriculum limited to lets learn about a season or a country, and that is pretty much it.
3. large class sizes mean that 1 and 2 made worse
4. If teachers and Zavetz put as much time into promoting the school (and themselves) as they did into teaching, maybe results would be better.
We felt that our child actually lost ground, relative to the private day care (where kids were learning to read at 4). If our child wasn’t participatory, she was essentially ignored. We got glowing reports all year, then she bottomed out on assessments, and we only learned of the math assessment LAST WEEK. Now she has to make it up in first grade. Meanwhile, the neighbor’s kid (privately schooled until now) is reading at probably a 4th or 5th grade level.
Wife overheard the teachers at her new elementary commenting that they would have to make up for what wasn’t done at Lincoln (in not so many words). If the first grade teachers are bashing the kindergarten teachers, that ain’t good.
A colleague that lives there and has as direct an insight as one can have, felt that Lincoln was an awful idea, both for expense and the effect on education. And he is not a tax-cutting, teacher-bashing troglodyte. Rather the opposite. I think he has been proven right on this one.
Our tax dollars at work. Feh!
Kindergarten Redshirting Is Bad in Many Ways
The practice of holding young children back from kindergarten in order to increase their odds of success in school has long worried educational observers. A paper published this summer by the economists David Deming, of Harvard’s Kennedy School, and Susan Dynarski, of the University of Michigan, found that so-called redshirting affects more children than previously thought — and the trend is accelerating. The “lengthening of childhood” also has negative consequences that other analysts have neglected, including economic ripple effects that could affect the long-term solvency of Social Security.
From 1968 to 1995, the authors found, the proportion of American 6-year-olds enrolled in first grade (or higher) dropped from 96.5 percent to 91 percent. From 1995 to 2005, the proportion of 6-year-olds in first grade (or higher) proceeded to plummet to 84.5 percent. One in six American children now has a delayed entry into school. Many schools are even mandating something called “late entry” to keep pace with redshirting.
While other academics have debated how the broader age ranges at each grade level affect academic performance gaps, Deming and Dynarski spotlight two negative outcomes. The first stems from the American tradition of setting a minimum school dropout age. (Some European countries mandate a minimum number of years in the classroom instead.) Disadvantaged students are more likely to drop out as soon as they can, therefore disproportionately decreasing the amount of education they complete. If they also started school late, these students lose time at the start of their education and at the end.
Meanwhile, other redshirted children delay their entry into the work force. They’re in high school when their parents were in college — since 1968, the proportion of 17-year-olds in college has dropped by half — and in college when their parents had jobs. The long-term ramifications of this demographic shift may be significant. Consider that Congress increased the Social Security retirement age from 65 to 67, on the logic that retirees would be supported by more workers. But with late school entry shrinking the size of the work force, that reform “will partially be undone,” Deming and Dynarski conclude — by the lengthening of the American childhood.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/14/magazine/14Ideas-Section2-C-t-004.html?scp=1&sq=kindergarten%20redshirt&st=cse
Aren’t montessori schools some type of christian scientist type brain washing place? I had a paper route when I was little and I rode by one every day, the kids were like mindless zombie mini stepford wive’s type kids. Julia Child went there as a kid and her voice game me the willey’s.
#102 daddyo –
My 4 year old (April b-day) just started Pre-K this fall. Of fourteen boys, he’s the third youngest. Seven of them will have turned 5 before September 30.
I’m sure you’ve heard this before, but school’s not like it used to be. There’s a lot more work and after 7 hours of school, it isn’t just the sad sacks who couldn’t finish their seatwork who have homework. They’ve all got it. School can be tough, especially on little boys, who are forced to sit still these days much longer than God intended.
I kept my older son (August birthday) back and it was definitely the right decision for him. BTW, Little League uses age. The cutoff is April 30 and that’s why I went ahead and sent my 4 year old to Pre-K this year.
#103 Kettle
Alpine. We were sorry we had to leave it when we moved.
I didn’t go to pre-school and some neighbors with big families skipped kindergarten as legally you are not forced to go till first grade. The nuns were in the blame game, when you have God in your corner and a big ruler you were allowed to use kids learn there three R’s rather quick.
[106] John
John’s rant is precisely why I refused to coach soccer in my child’s league, and why I counsel other guys not to volunteer or work in areas with children.
Some parents were critical of my reasoning, but I told them, as an attorney, I can’t counsel someone to ignore the risks associated with a false accusation. And if I didn’t take my own advice, what does that say?
I would have loved to have done that, and I think I would be good at it, but since John’s thinking is more prevalent than we would like to believe, I can’t.
[113] me
should read
“If teachers and Zavetz put as much time into teaching as they did promoting the school (and themselves), maybe results would be better.
must engage brain febore typing
#114 NJGator –
I’m not seeing anything so bad there. So what if they’re delayed in the workforce – Social Security’s a mess either way. And the vast majority of upper middle class children just don’t have dropping out of school as an option.
Currently, schools don’t group first through third according to ability anymore. So those first grade teachers are teaching to the lowest common denominator, which is pretty low. Another year under their belts can be helpful for some immature kids who already happen to be able to read. A phenomenal teacher can accommodate everyone’s tremendously disparate needs, but those teachers are few and far between.
I wouldn’t always keep my son back, but after having kids go through the early grades already, I definitely lean toward it.
My son is one of the youngest in his class and me and NT wife like that as he seems to thrive in learning from the older kids.
You are thinking NJ baby. My school district as well as most on LI and NYC has a 12-31-09 cut off. When your kid gets to college he will be like up one one and half years older than eveyone else. Plus a lot of soccer/baseball leagues are on to this nonsense and do it by year rather than age.
Remember in most towns, not NJ, kids born 12-31-04 or before are entering kindergarten this year. Kids born between September and December are 4 on the first day of kindergarten in my school district.
It gets kooky when a boy in third grade has to play little league with fourth graders. It makes the whole redshirt thing fall apart and is actually a disadvantage.
My oldest sister who was near the cut off when she started kindergarten was only 21 when she graduated Graduate School. Nowdays you see 20 year old Freshman!!!
Ellen says:
September 14, 2009 at 1:06 pm
#102 daddyo –
My 4 year old (April b-day) just started Pre-K this fall. Of fourteen boys, he’s the third youngest. Seven of them will have turned 5 before September 30.
I’m sure you’ve heard this before, but school’s not like it used to be. There’s a lot more work and after 7 hours of school, it isn’t just the sad sacks who couldn’t finish their seatwork who have homework. They’ve all got it. School can be tough, especially on little boys, who are forced to sit still these days much longer than God intended.
I kept my older son (August birthday) back and it was definitely the right decision for him. BTW, Little League uses age. The cutoff is April 30 and that’s why I went ahead and sent my 4 year old to Pre-K this year.
This is nuts, but a lot of good stuff to think about.
I wouldn’t call my son a small 5 year old, but when he stands next to a bunch of 6 year olds, it’s not very fair.
That NYT article was convincing…I don’t see much individual downside to red-shirting.
My daughter was only 4 on the first day of kindergarten. My friends from Ohio were beside themselves when I told them this. I told them to get over it, she was going. She is now in fourth grade and is doing very well at school. I started my son at 5 also.
Renter – we just started my 4 yr old in KG too. So what does your school district do for first grade? Did they test her in 1st grade or did you enroll her in private school until 2nd grade?
Renter – we just started my 4 yr old in KG too. So what does your school district do for first grade? Did they test her in 1st grade or did you enroll her in private school until 2nd grade?
Sorry for the lousy grammar in #121
#96 Nom,
Have you talked to some kindergarten teachers? The ones I’ve talked to have said that the afternoon is play time. The kids, particularly the five year old boys, are just too fried to do anything meaningful.
Also, so much of when a child reads is genetic. I think all the kindergartens these days have a minimum of a few hundred sight words, but that can be a stretch for some kids who just aren’t ready yet.
I have no doubt that full day kindergarten helps kids from disadvantaged backgrounds. I’m not as convinced about the benefits for upper middle class kids. My kids have (or will) attend full day kindergarten.
lisoosh says:
September 14, 2009 at 11:07 am
#61 – Chi, The worst thing you can do with a non-profit is approach them with a “business expertise as cure-all” approach. Sales is all about connecting with people at their own level.
If you are looking to reach area non-profits I would seriously suggest studying their terminology and perspective.
l: Regardless of how I come across in my posts, my demeanor in person is completely different. That said, one of the most important issues I raised was that a real estate transaction that was negotiated in the Spring of 2007 needed to be renegotiated. It was a bad deal at the time, but given every that has gone down in the last two years, it was foolish not to revisit it. Adding to the idiocy, they were being held to Summer 2009 credit standards.
Essentially, me acting as an unbiased party willing to negotiate in their interest is rebuffed, yet, they are willing to go the “honor system” with some serious scumbag and their crooked RE broker that rips them off. Pathetic. I saw the credential of the “Board”. At least 3 or 4 of them should know better. Maybe there was money under the table…..the President is a fool.
My son is an October birth. Almost all the cutoffs around here are 10/1. So he is 2 at the beginning of next month, but effectively three. Kind of a tough call I guess.
I sent my daughter to a private kindergarten. I admit that I was ready to pull her out if she couldn’t handle it. The school district simply accepted her in first grade however different district have different rules about this.
—–
Maybe she’s stopped picking her nose.
#124 daddyo
In my opinion, a boy’s size is a valid consideration in deciding whther or not to send him. Sports is such a huge part of boys’ socialization, that being a lot bigger or smaller can have long lasting effects on a boy’s self esteem.
As a renter, a serious question for the board.
Does the winner of Christie/Corzine matter to me related to a house purchase in NJ?
My lease is up in January and I’m leaning on staying put for the year but I do notice the prices of townhouses/houses has dropped. The $8k credit is not a factor in my decision.
By the way I don’t trust women either. The other place Men are automatically assumed to be creeps when they hang around on play dates. The wives get to know each other and feel safe on one or two play dates then the husband who no one knows appears one day and one can only assume the worst.Bottom line the vast majority of pedophiles are middle aged men who like to hang around with little kids. I know it is profiling. But when ever I am at a party I stay away from other peoples kids. In the eyes of a parent you are about as trustworthy as a Priest alone with an alter boy.
It is no concidence you don’t see many male elementary teachers. BTW we have litterally a handfull of male school tachers in my town below High School and last year one of the teachers was arrested for solicitng minors on internet, of course he was a 40 year old male elemntary school teacher. Even thought 99% of teachers are female 100% of the pedophile teachers are male in my town. We had another a few years ago and guess what male. The parochial school near me only hires retired female school teachers. They did their 25 got there pension and are teaching pre-school for a little extra cash. Most are Grandmas. Those are real teachers. Within an hour they got those kids behaving.
Comrade Nom Deplume says:
September 14, 2009 at 1:08 pm
[106] John
John’s rant is precisely why I refused to coach soccer in my child’s league, and why I counsel other guys not to volunteer or work in areas with children.
Some parents were critical of my reasoning, but I told them, as an attorney, I can’t counsel someone to ignore the risks associated with a false accusation. And if I didn’t take my own advice, what does that say?
I would have loved to have done that, and I think I would be good at it, but since John’s thinking is more prevalent than we would like to believe, I can’t.
I’m willing to bet anynoe straight up that John thought “Montessori” was a brand of body shampoo prior to reading this thread.
When I started Kindergarten in the prehistoric ages, my parents were given the option of pushing me ahead to first grade, because I only missed the cutoff date by less than 4 weeks.
My son has a June birthday. If people are redshirting kids born at that time of the year, what does that do to the kid who is born just before the cutoff but is not held back? You’re looking at a kid that might now be a full 15 months younger than the oldest kids in the class.
Don’t do it. Remember as Rex Ryan said to Mark Sanchez you play to win not to try not to lose. Plus I always assume the kids is either autistic or dumb if he is older than the other kids. What makes people think the kids will be smarter and stronger? Finally, when I interview college grads it is hard nto to assume the kid could not graduate on time. 23 year old recent college graduates to me sound like someone who was hitting the bond pipe one too many times and did not graduate on time.
chicagofinance says:
September 14, 2009 at 1:31 pm
My son is an October birth. Almost all the cutoffs around here are 10/1. So he is 2 at the beginning of next month, but effectively three. Kind of a tough call I guess.
Gator
Absolutely true. My daughter is 15 months younger than at least four of the kids in her class.
In the booklet, Kilpatrick claimed that Dr. Montessori’s educational views had been created through unscientific observation and note-taking, and that she clearly lacked knowledge of educational thought and practice.
While Madam Montessori’s interest in the scientific attitude is entirely praiseworthy, her actual science cannot be so highly commended. Her biology is not always above reproach . . . she generalizes unscientifically as to the condition of contemporary educational thought and practice from observation limited . . . If she had known more of what was being thought and done elsewhere, her discussions would have been saved some blemishes and her system some serious omissions. (p.4)
He commended her ideas of child liberty and discipline, but harshly criticized her concept of child development, referring to it as “inadequate and misleading” (p. 11). Moreover, he was troubled by the lack of group work and group instruction in Montessori schools, observing: “the Montessori child, each at his own chosen tasks, works in relative isolation, his nearest neighbors possibly looking on . . . We criticize Montessori . . . that she does not provide situations for more adequate social cooperation”. (pp. 15–20)
Kilpatrick asserted that Montessori’s didactic materials, while strongly attractive and compelling to children, were very remote from the social interests and connections to anything relevant in the child’s life.
. . . in these schools playing with the didactic apparatus is strictly forbidden, and usually no other play material is furnished. Madam Montessori has, in fact, been publicly quoted as saying, ‘If I were persuaded that children needed to play, I would provide the proper apparatus; but I am not so persuaded’. The best current thought and practice in America would make constructive and imitative play, socially-conditioned, the foundation and principal constituent of the program for children of the kindergarten age, but Madam Montessori rejects it. (p.28)
She had one ten year old in her 3rd grade classroom when she was eight.
#125 renter
I think the main reason people keep kids back is more social than academic. It’s great your daughter is fine so far, but these next couple of years will tell the tale.
When the trouble starts (and, unless your kid’s the ring leader, it will), ask yourself if your daughter would be better off if she were a year older. The answer could very well be no, nothing would be different. My point is just that with girls you generally can’t tell if you made the right decision to send them ahead until then.
Same here. I was born in August so I didn’t start driving until the beginning of my senior year but on the wrestling team, we had most of the juniors on our team already driving when it was just December to Feb since most of them stayed back.
#137 Gator
So much of this cutoff stuff depends on district. Around here, the cutoff is September 1st. Many of the private schools here cut the boys off June 1st.
Your son will likely be fine going ahead on schedule. He’s the oldest child and likely more mature because of it. Besides, if you’ve got an October cutoff, he’s really not cutting it that close.
What is nuttier is I have heard women schedule the conception and even C-sections to make the school year cutoff.
John, is it really surprising that you can find montessori critics on google?
Do you think that peroquial, home schooling and public schools dont have any critics?
That guy on Curb Your Enthusiasm says the cutoff time for phone calls is 10 PM.
Veto (146)-
Lay off. John makes his bond calls based on Google info, too.
renter (131) – I have touched base with two different school districts. The one we are in now will test her for first grade. The school district we will most likely be in next year says that right now each school prinicipal is given discretion over whether they test but this policy may change next year. If it does, we may be looking at another year of private tuition or staying in this district for one more year. I felt like I was making the right decision to enroll her in KG when her (3s) preschool teacher heard her say “next year I am going to KG” (instead of into the 4s classroom) and she said to her “good, that is where you belong”. She is ready for it. Not all kids are and for a long time I thought why push her? But she was seriously getting bored in her “age-appropriate” classroom. Also, when the teacher asked her to read a book to the students at story time – the other parents in the class started making noises about how that was so inappropriate (probably because it was going to hurt their kids’ self-esteem). So off to KG you go.
If people are redshirting kids born at that time of the year, what does that do to the kid who is born just before the cutoff but is not held back? You’re looking at a kid that might now be a full 15 months younger than the oldest kids in the class.
See, I personally wouldn’t try to change the status quo, I’d just go ahead and keep my kid back.
Also, I can’t stress enough how different school is from when we were kids. Third grade science, for instance, is memorizing the steps of photosynthesis, the parts of a plant, the ear, and the eye, and project after project after project. There’s an awful lot of busywork that just wasn’t inflicted upon us and it can suck every bit of enjoyment out of a subject.
Touched a nerve!!
So after the press conference at Federal Hall the yahoos were going at it on CNBC. Liesman says something that offends so I shoot off an e-mail to the general Power Lunch mailbox.
Liesman responds, with back up data, from his personal e-mail address.
He was correct, but seems like he’s feeling the heat if he needs to respond to random e-mails regarding his stance on O…..
He has no idea what he started. I can’t wait, I can now call him out on EVERYTHING.
ChiFi-
My daughter’s birthday is Oct. 29th and the cutoff was Nov.1st. She did fine except she was so pissed that she was the only senior in high school without a drivers license. She had her Masters degree by 21.
Good luck Afe and go with your ‘mother instinct’!
My son was five when he started kindergarten and didn’t turn six until May. I felt that holding him back a year was like failing him before he began.
Go back last 52 weeks and look at my bond picks. That was all original research. F at 17,HIG at 49, XL at 55, AIG at 46, GMAC at 50, UIS and GNW at 35, C at 50, BAC at 70, Munis at 7%. Believe me when I bought Ford Bonds at 17 and UIS/GNW at 35 this whole site was bashing me. You don’t see me recommending anything anymore as there is nothing left that is a compelling buy. I am not a bond trader. The only recognition of my lucky good timing came from ChiFi and he knows what he is doing.
One thing that worries about bonds is the fire sale started back on 9-15-08 and lasted through mid August 2009. As those bonds purchases hit one year we are free to sell at the lower tax rate and before Mr. O raises taxes in 2011. There will be a lot of selling of junk bonds as well as financial stocks that have greatly appreciated between now and 12-31-10.
Sad to say I max out my 401k this month and the few one year CDs I have remaining at 4-5% will just go to knock off my mortage as they mature, the market equities/stocks is just too rich for me.
Schumpeter says:
September 14, 2009 at 2:02 pm
Veto (146)-
Lay off. John makes his bond calls based on Google info, too.
Thanks Renter. I agree, – why hold them back? The age thing you get over – yes it is a pain when all the kids in your class are driving before you, but seriously, why hold them back academically? Just so, they can drive their friends to school in morning – not a priority.
[135] John,
Sad but true. Back when I was a SAHD for a brief period, except for parents that knew you, a SAHD was treated as a pariah. I learned pretty quickly (once was enough) that you weren’t really welcome at the “parents” coffee hour after dropoff.
Comrade, I have a brother in law whose last job was doing Y2k consulting so he is a stay at home dad. He has three kids 2-9 and with a full head of hair and being in shape trust me no married man will let his wife have a play date with him. On top of that no way is my sister letting the widowed/divorced ladies have a play date with him and the kids. He is out of luck and lonely.
I was forced into school early by my parents. Yeah the first year or two were a hassle but overall it went smoothly.
I was a great reader and they wanted to put me in the advanced reading but I wouldn’t jump throught he instructors hoops. “Answer this question at home and bring the answer back tomorrow”. WTF is homework? You have to be kidding me, I’m not going to read this at home.
They would do things like take you to the library and say “Count the number of words you don’t undstand on one hand and if you reach more than five on a single page your book is too complex”. I’m walking through the 5th grade section trying to look for a book in the first grade.
There was a struggle with attention span vs. knowledge. I knew quite a bit but didn’t listen very well to the teachers instructions. I look back now and think that if a teacher had used the right reward system I probably would have responded a lot better.
I appreciate that my parents put me into school early. Get that crap over with before the wanderlust of the late teens sets in. Nothing would have been worse than to be 18-19 sitting in high school. Cars, Money, Girls (not in that order) destroy any incentive to learn during those ages.
i was the youngest in my h.s. senior class – played baseball and scouted by rutgers. they never offered the coveted “full ride” but suggested i attend rutgers-newark for a year to help me develop and mature. at the time in my adolescent angst, i blamed my parents for putting me in kindergarten early thwarting the scholarship but as an adult i simply realized it was rutgers way of saying “your just not good enough”.
You left out drinking and drugs. That should be in the top three.
I appreciate that my parents put me into school early. Get that crap over with before the wanderlust of the late teens sets in. Nothing would have been worse than to be 18-19 sitting in high school. Cars, Money, Girls (not in that order) destroy any incentive to learn during those ages.
Ellen (150)-
As far as I can tell, this is the objective of public education in the US.
It also softens kids up to better accept consumerism and bad entertainment as acceptable substitutes for an emotional or intellectual life.
“There’s an awful lot of busywork that just wasn’t inflicted upon us and it can suck every bit of enjoyment out of a subject.”
Baseball is hard to get a scholorship in whey didn’t you pick a bs sport?
Secondary Market says:
September 14, 2009 at 2:55 pm
i was the youngest in my h.s. senior class – played baseball and scouted by rutgers. they never offered the coveted “full ride” but suggested i attend rutgers-newark for a year to help me develop and mature. at the time in my adolescent angst, i blamed my parents for putting me in kindergarten early thwarting the scholarship but as an adult i simply realized it was rutgers way of saying “your just not good enough”.
John (154)-
Down, boy. Just kidding.
Good calls, every single one. Cynical, yet right on the money.
I can’t wait to be right on my call that we’ll eventually be treated to televised executions of congresscritters.
When holding back your kid don’t just think of the advantages that they will gain at the begining. Think of the disadvantages that your putting them in at the end of highschool.
A 19 year old senior is likely to sit around doing and learning nothing consuming familiy resources at an astounging rate for little return when waiting a whole year for college to begin. That is if they don’t drop out first.
Are you going to be sending them to college early? I have a brother who held his kid back a year then paraded around like a proud parent when his son entered college early. I felt like saying, your son is 19 years old and shouldn’t have been in High-school in the first place. You should have booted him out of the house by now and made him work for a living instead you still have half a year left of highschool with this freakish man-boy.
John (162)-
Field hockey is the ticket.
[157] John
I am convinced that there is no topic in which you couldn’t (a) turn it to sex, and (b) involve you or a member of your family.
Now, here’s a topic. After market auto parts. Discuss!
Can’t wait to see John knock 162 out of the park.
[163] schump,
Televised and legal, no. But I am willing to get a dead pool up that says one member of Congress gets shot before the mid-terms. We could have our own on-line Ladbrokes here, betting on all sorts of economic and political chicanery.
John,
’cause I was good at it. I was a pimply 15 year old striking out full bearded 18 year old men. Plus I’m lefty, Coach told me that was the key. lol
If it wasn’t for HS I would have never learned to roll a J, know where to buy fake ID, learn how to hot wire a car, learn to scalp tickets, fence goods, learn how to register an uninsured car etc. All that useful information is only available behind those walls.
I love Ladbrokes.
Comrade —
Westfield always had 1/2 day kindergarten. The only thing Lincoln did was consolidate all of the kindergarten classes at one location. The complainers are generally the ones who have to now drive further to get their kids to school. The curriculum did not change.
The half day program is ridiculous. One theory that I have heard on more than one occassion is that the school board purposely makes it like it is to discourage people from sending there kids there. Most of the families I know in which both parents work do not send their kids to Lincoln because it is so inconvienent and when you add up all the costs associated with other care, it makes more sense to just send your kids to private kindergarten.
Your right John, when your freakish man-boy has access to alcohol and drugs it just compounds the problem.
Any studies out there tie the high-school pregnancy rate to the redshirting rate?
Doctoral Thesis anyone?
If I only did what I was good at for a living I would be a porn star.
Secondary Market says:
September 14, 2009 at 3:02 pm
John,
’cause I was good at it. I was a pimply 15 year old striking out full bearded 18 year old men. Plus I’m lefty, Coach told me that was the key. lol
We should just devote a whole day’s thread to attempts at baiting John.
[172] huh
I moved there in 2008 so I wasn’t up on the history. As for convenience, I didn’t mind as they bussed from the elementary schools. Wasn’t a hardship at all.
As for the costs, sadly I must agree. As we won’t be using an au pair in 4-5 years, it may be cheaper and better to do as you are suggesting if the K program we have in mind is all day. Otherwise, you have to hire an au pair to cover for the schedule and you wind up paying more for lousy teaching.
[174] schump,
Why make the effort when you don’t have to?
Comrade – no Pingry for your kids?
[170] john,
I note that a goodly number of your h.s. skills have been rendered obsolete by changes in technology and procedure.
At least there is one h.s. skill you possess that will never be replaced by a machine, or by many others for that matter—your God-given ability to ream Vidalia until your eyes tear up.
[177] Sean,
Nope. Can’t afford it, or rather, can’t justify it.
Remember, I am only rich by democratic definition. Pingry said that my definitional status and 4 bucks would get me a latte, but nothing else.
school years should be shortened: 11 years before college and 3 year for college. kids should start to enter workforce by 20. any one here who is not working on chemical/pharma area still remember what you learned in your high school chemistry class? there is no need to learn so much which will be useless in your career. by reducing school years, it saves money, increases productivity and reduces aging issues.
You can’t make this up.
On boston.com, there is a link to pics from a fundraiser for, get this, “Squash Busters.”
Immediately, I thought of John.
#180 I think Obama and the teachers unions are trying to devise a cradle to grave indoctrination, I mean education strategy.
Ket 107 Same old , keeping the ship a float looking for work.
But then I won’t be able to drive on senior beach day.
I don’t see what big deal about school is. I am probably one of few on this site who went back to school after his masters degree for some more pain. I don’t recall learning anything, just needed that piece of paper.
bi says:
September 14, 2009 at 3:17 pm
school years should be shortened: 11 years before college and 3 year for college. kids should start to enter workforce by 20. any one here who is not working on chemical/pharma area still remember what you learned in your high school chemistry class? there is no need to learn so much which will be useless in your career. by reducing school years, it saves money, increases productivity and reduces aging issues.
Subject: HB 1388 Passed
Your government just spent $20,000,000 of your money to move members/supporters of Hamas, a terrorist organization, to the United States ; housing, food, the whole enchilada.
HB 1388 PASSED
Something happened…. H.R 1388 was passed, behind our backs. You may want to read about it.. It wasn ‘ t mentioned on the news… just went by on the ticker tape at the bottom of the CNN screen.
Obama funds $20M in tax payer dollars to immigrate Hamas Refugees to the USA . This is the news that didn ‘ t make the headlines…
By executive order, President Barack Obama has ordered the expenditure of $20.3 million in “migration assistance” to the Palestinian refugees and “conflict victims” in Gaza .
The “presidential determination”, which allows hundreds of thousands of Palestinians with ties to Hamas to resettle in the United States , was signed and appears in the Federal Register.
Few on Capitol Hill, or in the media, took note that the order provides a free ticket replete with housing and food allowances to individuals who have displayed their overwhelming support to the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) in the parliamentary election of January 2006.
Doubtful? To verify this for yourself: http://www.thefederalregister.com/d.p/2009-02-04-E9-2488
Now for something RE related and pretty damn scary:
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/Exchange/9807/Charts/SP500/Outlook.htm
“Think about how the mortgagee is going to react to a rate increase on these resets. First of all, nearly all mortgaged home values have gone down over the past couple of years. But the outstanding mortgage balance has not gone down. If any mortgage holder is currently paying less than interest-only, the outstanding balance on their mortgage is increasing each month. If they are paying only interest, the full amount of interest due each month, they are still underwater because their outstanding mortgage balance is higher than the home’s market value. Even people that are paying interest plus principle on a traditional 30-year loan may be underwater if the drop in market value exceeds the rate the principle is being paid down. For the people who got into extremely low teaser rates and are only paying interest (or less), any rate increase will immediately force them to pay more per month. For illustration, the traditional 30-mortgage rate is currently about 5.5%. If the original teaser rate was 1% and the scheduled reset goes to 2%, then their monthly payment will double. If it goes to 5.5% in one big step, then their payment also goes up by a factor of x5.5.
This is a very fragile situation. At any moment, the likelihood that mortgage holders caught in any of these situations will default, increases dramatically. Into this economic soup add in some unemployment, a dash of little or no personal savings, a dollup of 401K losses, and a sprinkle of gloom, and you have a recipe for disaster for the banking system.”
185 now I’ confused are we F..ken crazy.
Mike (187)-
Google is your friend in these treacherous times.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/hr-1388-passed-behind-our-backs/
Genworth evening-traded shares drop 6% to $10.69
Genworth starts $500 mln secondary stock offering
plume (179)-
By definition, anyone who hangs out at a site like this is not Pingry-parent material.
Even if they don’t believe it themselves, that group of parents is engaged full-time in the business of brokering hopeium to us unwashed of the hoi polloi.
“I don’t care who you bring up here, but I just want you to know that I’m sleeping in this bed too.”
That girl is a funny one, she is. No amour ici… C’est dommage!
J’taime, mon cherie ! Bonne nuit !
bi (180)-
Whatever school turned you loose on the world should be burned to the ground.
“school years should be shortened…”
Paying for K-12 is like paying to fart, it ain’t just right.
Tuition & Fees
Tuition Rates for the 2009-2010 Academic Year
Grades K-5 $24,195
Grades 6-8 $27,495
Grades 9-12 $28,745
Secondary Market says:
September 14, 2009 at 3:02 pm
John, ’cause I was good at it. I was a pimply 15 year old striking out full bearded 18 year old men. Plus I’m lefty, Coach told me that was the key. lol
sec: the guys on my baseball team were always freaked out by the schools they had to play….the would go to the games after school; the other team would have their wives/children cheering them on….some of the other players were 20 years old. Our ace pitcher topped out at 83-84, and guys on that team were pulling his fastball foul…he was thinking “I am so fcked!”
Speaking of schools…:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/10/news/economy/insider.sales/index.htm?postversion=2009091107
193. Good public schools are essential to the well being of the American public. not to mention their wallets. But John, that is chump change to a Wall Street baller like you.
The New Republic has a wonderful expose of the Ayn Rand series. Wall Street has learned their lesson. Right?
Confused at 3:32 pm, meet Google…
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/o/obama-palestine-refugees.htm
sx (197)-
Wrong. Secret (not so secret anymore) is: they ain’t too bright.
My HS in the year I graduated was voted number one in country both public and private!!!! We sent the most kids to ivy league schools of any school in the nation. Kids were banging out perfect SAT scores like nobody’s business. It still sucked. But at least I didn’t have to pay for it.
I firmly believe, HS and College are BS. Save your effort and Money for Grad School.
Essex says:
September 14, 2009 at 4:34 pm
193. Good public schools are essential to the well being of the American public. not to mention their wallets. But John, that is chump change to a Wall Street baller like you.
About that education bubble,
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125278483909606105.html#mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_personalfinance
re: #179 Comrade – you aren’t doing enough.
Get out there and pan handle on the corner of Elm and East Broad for the tuition.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfmoms/detail?entry_id=47529
200. Now you are just being contrary.
202. The Country has become a worse version of LA in the movie FALLING DOWN with Michael Douglas.
“Printing green pieces of paper doesn’t make an economy richer. If done without restraint, it leads to runaway price inflation. As an added downside, it also allows governments to slaughter millions of people. (The world wars could not have been waged if the belligerents had stuck to the gold standard.) Those who adore the all-powerful state should obviously be enchanted with fiat money. Decent people should loathe it.”
http://mises.org/story/3701
What makes you think I have any plans on paying for my kids college? It is the stupid parents who drove up the cost of education by paying for it. If tuition could only be based on what an 18-21 could earn and borrow via a non-subsized loan tuition would be 20% of what it is today in the private colleges.
relo says:
September 14, 2009 at 4:52 pm
About that education bubble,
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125278483909606105.html#mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_personalfinance
For anybody who thinks I’ma lone, nihilistic voice of dread in the wilderness, here’s a little Dylan Ratigan from earlier today. Wonder how long GE’s gonna keep him on the payroll after this happy little screed:
“Last fall was an awakening for me, as it was for many in our country.
And yet, our Congress has yet to open its eyes, much less do anything about it. In fact conditions have never been better for the banks or worse for the rest of us.
Why is this? Who does our Government work for? How much longer will we as Americans tolerate it? And what, if anything, can we do about it?
As we approach the anniversary of the bailouts for our banks and insurers — and watch the multi-trillion taxpayer-funded programs at the Federal Reserve continue to support banks and subsidize their multibillion bonus pools, we must ask if our politicians represent the interests of America? Or those who would rob America of its money and its future?
As a country, we must demand that our politicians stop serving those whose business models are based on systemic theft and start serving those who seek to create value for others — the workers, innovators and investors who have made this country great.”
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/dylan-ratigan-discusses-helsinki-syndrome-relationship-america-and-wall-street
206: What makes you think I have any plans on paying for my kids college? It is the stupid parents who drove up the cost of education by paying for it.
Huh? Why do I care what you are are aren’t paying for in any area of your life?
It is the stupid parents who drove up the cost of education by paying for it. If tuition could only be based on what an 18-21 could earn and borrow via a non-subsized loan tuition would be 20% of what it is today in the private colleges.
Uh, yeah, that’s kind of my point in referencing a bubble.
Forget John taking the bait, the blowhard party mouthpieces here are sucking up the crumbs like a Dustbuster. Meanwhile Wallstreet is literally picking your pockets. Same as it always was.
On the pre-K thread, I personally don’t see the value of spending upwards of 20K a year to make junior into the next brainiac with social skills below that of our resident bi. As a former camp counselor (luckily I didn’t get sued, right Nom?) who had the privilege of working at two different sleep away camps, one funded by clean air charitable donations and the other mostly by parents who had money to burn, I truly feel that the inner city youth had a value system that will take them much further in their pursuit of happiness. Sure the Kutsher’s Sports Academy enrollees will probably make a lot more dough than their brethren at the YMCA camp, but which kid will end up happier.
Value comes in how you raise your children, not how much money you spend on their pre-k and kindergarten education. Do homework with them after school and don’t buy them every toy that is hawked between SpongeBob episodes on Nickelodeon. Yes, pre-screen their day care facility, but it’s not like they are bound to end up homeless if they don’t attend Pingry. Quite honestly, I would rather Lil’ Gator be a plumber or electrician who fulfills his life helping others with home repairs then a hedge fund manager who cares more about making sure his kid has every latest Nintendo Wi offering to make up for your lack of participation in child-rearing.
The over-coddling of our children is going to have disastrous consequences. At times, I think the moral hazard in how governments are handling the current economic crisis might be credited to our inability to admit that leaders f’ed up.
I’ll step down from my soap box now. Now where’d I put my latest Toys R Us advert and list of Who’s Who in this year’s first grade class.
Comrade Nom,
Christopher Academy in Westfield is a very nice, albeit expensive Montesori pre-school. My daughter went there for 3 yrs through kindergarten, and was well ahead of her peers when she entered public school first grade last year. Let me know if you’d like more details.
confused [185] If you check the date on the Federal register piece (jan 29)and actually read it you will figure out that this is the money given to provide for the palis “in place” after the war they’ve had in January, rather than resettle them here. It was fairly widely publicised back in january we’ve given $20 mln for this aid. Not that I like hamas, but there is no need to post untruths even if they excite you.
The ultimate journalistic screed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_qgVn-Op7Q
I think Gary needs to weigh in on this 20K/yr kindergarten thingy.
“school years should be shortened…”
I agree.It was ok when kids did not have to go to college and work right away.Cut 2 years in middle school.Kids graduate college at 20.That is a lot of savings in taxes.
Doesn’t take much education to rig up the donkey carts and build the mud huts awaiting us in our shimmery, happy-happy-joy-joy future.
Folks. If anything the school year should be longer. More European in the year. 1 month off in winter and one in spring. and 1 in summer. I know a thing or two about education and I completely believe this would solve a lot of problems.
Protectionism? This sucks.
“The Premier League has announced that from next season every team must name a squad of 25 players, of which eight must be home grown.
A home grown player is any player who has played for an English or Welsh club for three years before their 21st birthday.
At present every Premier League club already passes the test, though Chelsea and Liverpool both have the bare minimum of eight.
In addition, there will be tighter controls on the spending of top flight clubs.
Premier League chief executive Richard Scudamore revealed: “As of next season clubs will be required to have a squad named of up to 25 players, of which no more than 17 can be over the age of 21 and not home grown.
“The definition of home grown is trained for three years under the age of 21 by somebody in the English and Welsh professional system. Clubs will have to declare their 25 at the end of August when the window shuts and then again at the end of January.”
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=676207&sec=england&cc=5901
Essex,
I wish the “conservatives” were advocates of Ayn Rand’s ideas. They aren’t – they pick and choose while then advocating contradictory and unprincipled policies. She was an opponent of central banking and fiat money, yet gets blamed when Greenspan fails as central planner of banking, as was inevitable, just because he sucked up to her decades before he got the job.
Anyway, I don’t mind the free advertising the leftist press provides for Objectivism, but wish they would provide more direct quotes, and fewer of their own misinterpretations.
westy (218)-
All a bunch of clowns, on the left and the right. Two wings of the same fascist/corporate welfare machine.
138.
John
“Don’t do it. Remember as Rex Ryan said to Mark Sanchez you play to win not to try not to lose. Plus I always assume the kids is either autistic or dumb if he is older than the other kids.”
John is my hero. This is exactly what I immediately think when I see the big older kids in my kid’s class.
BTW I put my barely 5 kid in K. He’s in 1st now, seems to be doing just fine. Yes, he is small, even for his age but he keeps up. I don’t think 1 year would have help him much athletically,as of now he’s not gifted in that area so I’d rather he get ahead a bit socially and academically. So far it seems to be working.
209.
stu
My kid went to Camp YoMeCA this summer, it was a day camp but he loved it. I grew up poor with a working mom so to me it was ritzy, but I guess not by north jersey standards.
Private Schools cannot compete with public schools. That’s why only the really good ones survive. A private school would normally be able to match a public school’s level without a problem and it could probably do it for a lot less money. The problem is, the government eats up all the demand for private school by automatically charging every resident to pay for public school, whether they want to send their kids to it or not.
Went to kindergarten at age 4 in NYC. Mother hated my teacher…years later I found my “report card”…teacher wrote I was “immature”!!!!!!!!!
Can’t a kid develop self esteem from overcoming the severe adversity of being 4 months younger and an inch shorter than a couple of his classmates?
I don’t see any public schools teaching people how to think critically. My kids’ schools are “blue ribbon” (ha to that one!), and all they do is teach to scantron tests and punish kids who don’t regurgitate what the teacher wants to hear. My son now calls his school “sheeple factory” (yes, I did have some input into that).
I get the feeling that we’re in a place much like Victorian England, where access to real education is limited to a precious few who do everything in their power to keep it from being widely accessed by larger numbers.
In the brave new world of fake solvency, real education might be more valuable than what passes for traditional capital. As this thing gets worse, access to capital might only be given to those who are supremely educated.
soosh (224)-
It will come faster when he beats the crap out of one of those classmates, if that classmate chooses to try some bullying.
Clot,
welcome to the digital dark age. Unparalleled access to information, greater then any other time in history, and at the same time the ability to constructively use that access goes down the drain.
vodka (227)-
The Dark Ages, with WiFi.
When does the black plague start?
Clot
who will be the monks that preserve information? The hardcore bloggers/ web junkies.
Went to kindergarten at age 4 in NYC. Mother hated my teacher…years later I found my “report card”…teacher wrote I was “immature”!!!!!!!!!
Kindergarten progress report, framed and mounted to the wall next to my desk:
Behavior
First Quarter – James doesn’t follow directions.
Second Quarter – James still doesn’t follow directions.
Third Quarter – James refuses to follow directions.
Fourth Quarter – James follows directions, his own.
I guess I just had undiagnosed ADHD and went unmedicated.
226- Believe me, your kid absolutely cannot touch another kid w/out severe repercussions. Even if it seems to be in self-defense it can be very problematic. I grew up in NYC, was not an aggressive kid, but I sure learned how to stick up for myself. I don’t know what the deal is these days though.
From the LA Times:
Mortgage problems are walloping Americans’ credit scores
When you do a short sale of a house, or modify the mortgage, is there much of an effect on your credit score? What if you walk away from the mortgage altogether?
A scoring company created by the three national credit bureaus — Equifax, Experian and TransUnion — has some eye-opening numbers. VantageScore Solutions, whose risk-prediction scores are now being used by some of the largest mortgage companies and banks, has found that the way consumers handle their mortgage problems can have profound effects on their credit scores.
For example, loan modifications that roll late payments and penalties into the principal debt owed on the house can actually increase borrowers’ scores modestly. Refinancings of underwater, negative-equity mortgages — which the Obama administration’s Making Home Affordable program offers through government-controlled Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — may have little or no negative effect on scores, even though the homeowners might have been tottering on the edge of serious delinquency before refinancing.
…
When homeowners negotiate a short sale with lenders, they sometimes assume that there will be relatively little effect on their scores. After all, the loan was successfully paid off, there was no foreclosure, and the lender voluntarily agreed to accept a lower balance than was owed.
But according to VantageScore researchers, short sales can trigger big drops in credit scores. Sarah Davies, senior vice president of analytics, said a homeowner with an excellent score of 862 might plummet 120 to 130 points after a short sale.
Although it’s true the lender may lose less money through a short sale compared with a foreclosure, “it’s still a derogatory event,” Davies said. The full debt was not repaid and the lender lost money.
I was immature because I peed in my pants one day..oh yes, I remember, the rules were not to go to the bathroom without permission…I had to go and raised my hand at my desk, I was ignored while the teacher yapped with some kids. I got up and walked to the desk and waved my hand in front of her and was told to sit down. I did and the “accident” happened. Of course they called my mother and said I had an “accident” and she thought I was seriously injured, that teed her off as well. So immature of me..unfortunately I still follow “rules” like paying the mortgage, etc!!!! Results are the same!!!!
I am reading Bukowski’s “Ham on Rye”. Reminds me of this blog.
John = Henry Chinaski
chicagofinance says:
September 13, 2009 at 10:46 am
g-ad: jam master jamil has it right…the NYT has been toilet paper for awhile; I think what says it all are the stupid TV & radio ads where they have the unmitigated gall to say “It’s like having a table of contents for the world”. Oh really….what world? A world that exist from Columbia to Battery park and is bounded by the Hudson and East Rivers. By the way, unless your net worth is $1M or more without real estate holdings, consider yourself irrelevant.
you’ve got to blame it on something, blame it on the rain, yeah, yeah …
remember that song? Milli Vanilli?
That’s the republicans for you. it’s all the media’s fault! blame the media!
236 1987 Condo Buyer
Your teacher was an idiot. My fifth grade teacher never let anyone go to the bathroom. I remember a girl in class having an accident. Her parents came up to school furious. That was about the same time my parents came up to school because the teacher kept me at the board for 45 minutes doing a math example I obviously didn’t know.
There are lots of terrible teachers out there and lots of good ones. But I still blame her for my math deficiency. I mean, why should I take responsibility for it? :)
i cant believe Federer just lost.
vodka (231)-
If the collective wisdom and memory of humanity is to be preserved by types like you and me, we’re royally fcuked.
grim (233)-
Not too late to start the medication. You are a little uppity, but I don’t see anything a little Adderall can’t smooth out.
“I guess I just had undiagnosed ADHD and went unmedicated.”
Can you freebase that?
Ask Gary.
I can’t believe Patrick Swayze is dead.
Damn. Lost my deadpool.
I can’t believe Fidel isn’t.
I’ve had that guy in my death pool for the past 5 years running.
Scary coincidences, need to stop blogging.
#218 Toon S & M
That’s a lot better than the rule a few years back were you have to name 5 home grown in the starting 11.
I think it will be good for the game in that it will curb wage demands and promote home based talent. Beyond ManU and the Gooners no one in the top flight has a high caliber academy.
246 Clot
I’m losing faith in you.
Grim – Stu says that Castro probably is dead. You just don’t know it.
lost (250)-
It’s about time. :)
PGC (249)-
Who needs an academy when you can poach everyone else’s academy players?
#251 – Smoking Romeo y Julietas with Ahmadinejad and bin Laden.
who needs a house out in Hackensack? Is that all you get for you money?
All the English sides have crap academies, but their kids can bust sick street moves:
http://www.skysports.com/socceram/story/0,21644,13873_2661145,00.html
RIP Patrick Swayze
Now I’m scared the same goblins who deep sixed the guy who whacked him in Ghost are coming after me.
Sorry, Pat. I had Don Rickles going before you.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xu9mx_patrick-swayze-chippendale_dating
From Consumerist:
Customer Tells Bank of America To Stick Her Debt “In Your Bailout Pipe And Smoke It”
Run people’s interest rates up to over 25% and eventually one of them is going to snap. Meet Ann. She’s has a balance of several thousand dollars on her Bank of America credit card. The bank has raised the interest on the card to 25.49% from 12.99% and she feels like there’s only one thing she can do to take a stand against what she calls “usury.” She’s refusing to pay. She’s also asking other consumers to “search their own souls” and consider joining her in a “debtor’s revolt.”
gator (259)-
Now that’s cold.
Say five Saint Urban’s and submit to a flagellation by Stu.
Sin no more.
I like her, she would fit in here.
#253 Car(Toon)
I don’t think Chelsea will any more, that was some fine. At last they come up with a fine that actually hurts the big clubs.
I think SAF is sh1tt1ng bricks over the Le Harve accusations, although the Glazers should b hoping for the ban as an excuse not to spend money.
I read this and thought of Gene Hackman in Hoosiers
“United have been accused by French club Le Havre of offering the parents of 16-year-old Pogba £170,000 in cash and a house to move to Old Trafford”
Hackman : We didn’t buy him a car, we bought him a Lexus!”
Patrick Swazye, dead at 57
Just me, but if you can build radar jammers and “Electronic Warfare Systems”, you can probably find a gig that pays better than $45/hr. See #254.
http://jobview.monster.com/Software-Engineer-Embedded-Software-Electronic-Warfare-C-45-67-52-88-hr-Job-Clifton-NJ-US-83390800.aspx
Dude, I can’t believe you aren’t watching GG.
PGC (263)-
I also heard SAF branded Pogba’s ass “property of…”, but the FA gives Man U a pass on everything.
Clot 261 – No can do. He’s too busy trying to beat my high score in Bejeweled Blitz.
#265 grim
The first word gives it away “Gvmt”, the funny thing is the talent pool for these jobs are so smalldue to the clearence requiremnets.
At least I know if I get canned I can always dust of my ADA books and get back into parallel coding. I have enough assembly and Realtime to BS the interview.
#268 NJGator,
Last week I pulled a 134K, this week I cn’t break 50K.
#267 Barcode reader.
The Eduardo ban was overturned, so my day is improving.
gator (268)-
Jesus, what’s happened to you? Has somebody sucked your brains out your ear?
PGC (271)-
That’s the last guy you want to bust on for diving. He’s lucky he can walk.
PGC – My high for the week is 146,300. It is just killing Stu that he can’t even come close to it.
My GG girls have become filthy little minxes over the summer.
Best. Season. Yet!
bi says:
September 14, 2009 at 3:17 pm
school years should be shortened: 11 years before college and 3 year for college. kids should start to enter workforce by 20. any one here who is not working on chemical/pharma area still remember what you learned in your high school chemistry class? there is no need to learn so much which will be useless in your career. by reducing school years, it saves money, increases productivity and reduces aging issues.
————————————–
Wrong, that’s exactly what’s killing US right now. 7th graders in US don’t even know what equation is, which was tought to 5th graders in USSR and now is in exUSSR.
And yes, I do remember chemistry, physics and math from my school years. And yes, when I show Ohm law to my colleague when he wasn’t able to figure out porper load for his amp, the reaction was “FTW is that”? The situation with HS education here is a disaster. I’m not talking about crazy stuff, but most of the people here don’t even remember/know the basics from their school years.
#272 Clot
This is what happens when you are stuck home (sober) as your kids can’t babysit themselves.
I love it when my MIL starts giving paranting advice based on life in the 70’s.
From what I can gather, people used to beat their kids with a stick, drive drunk, smoke in the car, leave them ut out to wander the streets in the day then stay home alone at night.
Clot – What is your opinion of the new Melrose Place? The fact that Dr. Michael Mancini is 50 is enough to drive me to drink an entire bottle of scotch.
#273 Clot
I think that was his defense. He went down to protect himself from a collision.
#274 NJGator
You have the same annoying similarities to Mrs PGC.
Clot – re Bejeweled Blitz – we are at the tail end of an e-commerce site re-platforming and simultaneous backend database overhaul that is about to go live and is going to be an utter disaster. I need some mindless activity to destress at the end of the day. And I don’t think the soulless McKinsey folks would approve of me showing up hungover everyday.
Clot – Sad to report there are 7,282,915 monthly active users of Bejeweled Blitz.
most kids in this country are first class morons, just like their parents.
thank goodness we have those visas, so we can import talent.
SAS
re:#277 – “From what I can gather, people used to beat their kids with a stick, drive drunk, smoke in the car, leave them out to wander the streets in the day then stay home alone at night.”
Sounds about right to me plus in the 70s TV went off the air early too.
SaS – did you read about the Sanford connection and thE DEA? Was he banker to the cartels?
PGC 280 – I have some good wife qualities too. For instance, I am letting Stu go to Vegas solo for his birthday to play in a $1,000 Candy Land tournament and play blackjack in a Snuggie.
“SaS – did you read about the Sanford connection and thE DEA? Was he banker to the cartels?”
son, i knew about this since for sometime. He was a banker for a cartel, he is decent size fish. But, there are many fish in the sea.
now, who is the cartels? it ain’t some mexican with a devil tat, or a bloke from Columiba with a 70s po*rno mustache.
I’ll tell you right now, one of the biggest cartels IS the DEA. (compartmentalize), one group does x, while another group does y.
and group z makes sure x and y don’t cross paths, and makes it all look legit.
SAS
but, here is a little nugget.
you remember Cochabamba? down in Boliva, near the avenue Jose Ballivian.
once had a gig near the plaza colon, next thing I know, the same people pushing privitization of water, were the same ones buddy buddy with the DEA.
what was the relationship? i do not know for sure, but strange indeed.
SAS
286 NJGator
And I’m the perfect husband, I let her go off to play poker when ever she wants.
When we can get Granma to babysit on Friday nights we head over to Harolds in Parsippany for dinner and some cards.
#288 SAS
” privitization of water” wasn’t that the theame for the last James Bond movie?
“”privitization of water” wasn’t that the theame for the last James Bond movie?”
i do not know.
haven’t kept up with Bond movies since “from Russia with love”
SAS
#291
You missed the Roger Moore years then. A bonus in many eyes.
gator (278)-
Sorry. Never seen it. I thought the original was a piece of shit.
Wanna be really depressed? Andrew Shue lives in Princeton and is a soccer parent, just like the rest of us schlubs.
FBI raids possible “terror cell” in Queens NY.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/sns-ap-us-nyc-terror,0,7112441.story
”privitization of water” wasn’t that the theame for the last James Bond movie?
Were the Cochabamba Water Wars even publicized here?
Hmm, didn’t see it, but it turns out the writer was familiar with the event.
#296 grim
Worth a watch. Its a different vein from the others.
Clot 293 – I agree that the first series was awful, but it was so bad that it was drama that was unintentionally funny. Paired with 90210, Wednesday nights were fondly known as “Cr*p Night” in our college home and many laughs were had and much alcohol consumed. Those were good times.
And Billy always was the boring one. Does not surprise me in the slightest that Andrew Shue is just a boring old soccer dad.
Yup :( Looks like everybody agrees and don’t want to challenge me on 276
fire (299)-
With rare exception, I just hope that many of the people with whom I interact can perform simple tasks reasonably well without turning larger projects into total clusterfks.
lost is not included in the above group. :)
fire (299)-
Then again, I deal with bankers and loss mitigators all day, so that may be a tad too much to ask for.
Higher taxes, coming to a wallet near you. Or, as the IRS commercial might say, “Whats in your wallet? I want it!”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/14/AR2009091403519_pf.html
Gator,
I have not been around much and may have missed something, how did you make out the other day at work?
speaking of James Bond…
i know i will get a chuckle, but i always thought Kevin Costner would make a good bond.
i knew Kevin and his brother Dan from along time ago. We use to gamble together in Deadwood and other places.
I gave Kevin the idea to shoot at the Belle Fourche River
during the filming of Dances with Wolves.
but man, did that guy love his women. what a hor*y little toad.
SAS
Shore 303 – As of yet, I am not on the public dole. I think I will survive, but I am certain that there are more layoffs to come.
and it was Kevin who introduced me to Ollie Stone.
i have dirt piled a mile high on that little turd bird.
SAS
So right now the board is only carrying Gary? Is that right?
Nope, Shore. Even Gary is paying his own way now. But he did get a killer tan during his extended vacation.
Grim:
what is the deal with MLS #2679130: I thought it was under attorney review. It is still listed on the MLS.
Thanks
Gary,
Congrats on the tan, oh, and the gig too.
Clot,
Thanks for the reply,
Please be honest, do you remember from you school years what’s cos 0 is ? or cos pi? The brightest one from my team barely remembered the word
clot 241:
agree! but there is a precedent. Consider how much knowledge was lost after the fall of Rome and wasnt rediscovered for 100’s of years in some cases.
And no, i do not see myself a some savior of knowledge. I’m just another ADHD blogger
firestormik [276, 311] The key problem with the adults not remembering a thing from what they studied in math and science classes in HS is that the stuff is taught in separate cycles rather than as a flow of knowledge. I assume you went to HS in then USSR and to the college here – just compare how much you remember from HS classes (outside your current field of interest) and how much from the college stuff (same clause). And there is no way we could teach chem 2 days a week, physics 2 days a week and bio 1 day a week (for example) because educational bureaucrats will have to shoot themselves (and also because every town thinks they know best, so the kids and parents will be stuck in place for 4 years). Ditto for geometry, trig and algebra. We can’t compete in math/science (on a mass level, not on PhD level) until we have a national curriculum and end stuff like “math for living” and “fundamentals of science” in HS.
Fire,
Its not about having cos 0 or 2pi memorized. The important tool is retaining the knowledge or how to use the basic tools and where to find the informaion when you need it.
That is one of the first things taught in engineering. A field where there is to much info to just memorize it unless you happen to be an idiot savant.
What we need across the boar is for children, adults, people, to be taught how to thing and problem solve logically. Memorization has its place, but is just another tool. Once you have those tools you have the ability to pick up the specific info you need at any given time and make use of it.
Simple memorization can be ultimately self limiting. You can only go so far without understanding the underlying structure and how it interacts with the world.
I believe that this is one of the key differences between eastern and western learning ( ell for those who know more then who is on American idol or what the latest celeb gossip is).
294.Sean says:
September 14, 2009 at 10:02 pm
FBI raids possible “terror cell” in Queens NY.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/sns-ap-us-nyc-terror,0,7112441.story
Sean: to be clear, that is the exact corner that I grew up on….41st Avenue and Parsons Blvd…..oh I forgot, I am some arrogant ivy-league silver spoon scumbag )that grew up with roaches in my bed)….
We also need certain bloggers to learn how to type :(
Clot,
the dark age meme fits right in with the Federal Reserves efforts to reduce us to nobles and serfs.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_H2DePAZe2gA/SpX2GVtBL5I/AAAAAAAAJpo/8ZUMvIK48tM/s1600-h/learn-to-be-a-serf.png
Treasury Girds for Debt-Ceiling Fight
The Obama administration, concerned about the possibility of a big political fight over the national debt, is looking at how it can continue funding the government in the event that Congress hinders its ability to borrow money. Treasury Department officials are examining tools employed by previous administrations, including disinvesting government retirement funds and suspending interest payments to federal accounts, according to people familiar with the matter. They are also looking at what to do in the unlikely event of a government shutdown.
At issue is the debt ceiling, a dollar limit controlled by Congress that dictates how much the U.S. can borrow. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner told the Senate in a letter last month that the $12.1 trillion ceiling could be hit as early as mid-October, and said it needs to be increased so the U.S. can continue funding operations and making debt payments. Mr. Geithner didn’t indicate the increase he was seeking. With the U.S. borrowing about $30 billion a week, some economists say the Treasury will need an increase of as much as $1.5 trillion if it wants to avoid another request before the 2010 midterm elections. The U.S. could default on its debt if Congress doesn’t raise the debt ceiling, but it is a remote scenario.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125270970074004941.html
nearly 90 percent of all new home loans are funded or guaranteed by taxpayers
http://www.mercurynews.com/realestatenews/ci_13309700
for all those who said they preferred the grittier NYC of the 80’s. your wish is about to be granted.
New York Faces Dramatic Consequences of Crisis
The global financial crisis began in Manhattan, and its effects are being felt far more strongly there than elsewhere. Mayor Michael Bloomberg says the situation is critical. Millions are fighting to keep their jobs. Is what is happening in New York today a harbinger of the fate of the rest of the world?
They still remember how things used to be. That’s part of the problem. New York’s heroes, the men and women who only yesterday considered themselves the knights and conquerors of Manhattan, remember all too well what New York was like in the 1970s — the era before seven-figure salaries came to the Big Apple. They remember — and they see the signs. That’s why they’re afraid.
Cathy used to be a banker. Today she is homeless and living in Tompkins Square. She thinks about the heroin and the stench.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,648448,00.html
kettle1 says:
September 14, 2009 at 11:46 pm
We also need certain bloggers to learn how to type :(
Kettle, come on, I was much worse than you :( Reply to your post tomorrow (ok, today in the morning from the train), but you are right but mostly wrong! :(
A great exodus occurred with lacking funds scurrying away from the great state of new jersey. And the roads they were clear. And the air it did lighten. And the ranks of the angry and disenfranchised. Abated.
From the 9/15 WSJ:
* SEPTEMBER 15, 2009
No Easy Exit for Government as Housing Market’s Savior
By JON HILSENRATH and DEBORAH SOLOMON
WASHINGTON — After a year of extraordinary interventions in the economy, the federal government is starting to pare its support for the private sector. It doesn’t look that way to Peter Lansing, president of mortgage firm Universal Lending.
The Denver home lender sees every day how dependent the housing market has become on the government. At the height of the boom, just 20% of Universal’s mortgages were backed by the Federal Housing Administration, an arm of the government that guarantees loans to borrowers who can’t afford big down payments. Today, the FHA accounts for more than 80% of his business. For Mr. Lansing, this represents a new way of life — more government, more paperwork, but also a lot of sales that wouldn’t have happened otherwise.
“Over 29 years in business, we’ve always thought of ourselves as being in the free-enterprise system. Today I think of myself as a government contractor,” Mr. Lansing says. “My business strategy is to get more of my employees to embrace that idea. Plan B would be to sell pencils on the corner.”
In a speech on Wall Street a year after Lehman Brothers collapsed, President Barack Obama said Monday the need for the government to keep stabilizing the financial system “is waning.” His administration released a 51-page report detailing rescue programs that are slowly being scaled back. But the Treasury Department, author of the report, noted that housing is one area where it’s too early to exit.
Over the past year, the government has intervened heavily at essentially every stage of the home-buying process. In fact, more than 80% of the new residential mortgage loans made this year benefited from some form of government support, according to the trade publication Inside Mortgage Finance.
Long story. More here:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125297162259710323.html
And a couple of days ago, the WSJ was writing about the US Gov’t taking control of 80% of the student loan market – $100 million.
And more from the WSJ:
* SEPTEMBER 15, 2009
Fed Likely to Keep Buying Mortgage Instruments
By SUDEEP REDDY
WASHINGTON — The Federal Reserve, which convenes its policy meeting next week, is likely to stay the course to buy $1.45 trillion in mortgage-linked securities despite potential resistance from a few regional Fed presidents.
Central-bank officials plan to discuss winding down those purchases over the coming months to limit disruption to the market when the buying comes to an end.
Some regional Fed policy makers have suggested the Fed might halt the program before it finishes its purchases of $1.25 trillion in mortgage-backed securities and $200 billion in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac debt announced in the past year. But they are a small minority across the Fed system.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125297228514210337.html#mod=WSJ_hps_sections_news
Good night, all!
Well, the option of moving out is only available to the retirees, but not for thos who still have the jobs.
What should I do if I still have a job? Vote for Corzine? He is not going to reduce my tax! Vote for Christie? He is not going to reduce my tax either! I don’t trust any politician.