From HousingWire:
Mortgage interest rates plumb new depths
Continued turmoil in the financial markets, stubbornly high unemployment and economic uncertainty keep pushing mortgage interest rates to new depths, according to Freddie Mac.
The government-sponsored enterprise said its primary mortgage market survey showed the average rate for a 30-year, fixed mortgage fell to 4.12% for the week ending Thursday from 4.22% a week earlier. The interest rate for a traditional mortgage is now at the lowest level in five decades.
The average rate for a 15-year, fixed mortgage decreased to 3.33% from 3.39% the prior week, according to the Freddie Mac survey.
…
Mortgage interest rates are considerably lower than the year ago, when the 30-year averaged 4.35% and the average 15-year, fixed mortgage was 3.83%.Freddie Mac said the average five-year, Treasury-indexed adjustable-rate mortgage stayed flat with the prior week at 2.96% and is down from 3.56% a year ago.
The average rate for a one-year, ARM fell to a new low at 2.84% from 2.89% a week ago. The rate is down from 3.46% at this time last year.
good morning NJ
From MarketWatch:
Expectations for home prices fall again: Fannie
Pessimistic expectations for U.S. home prices persisted for the third straight month in August, according to a monthly survey from mortgage giant Fannie Mae.
For its August reading, Fannie Mae said respondents now expect home prices to decline by 0.5% over the next year, a dimmer view than the 0.3% decline predicted in the July survey.
Economic views also darkened last month, as 78% of respondents indicated they believe the U.S. economy is on the wrong track, an eight percentage point jump from July.
Regarding personal finances, 22% of respondents saw their personal financial situation deteriorating over the next year, up from 20% of respondents with that view in July.
Fannie Mae Chief Economist Doug Duncan said the results suggest a heightened sensitivity among consumers to recent global economic turmoil.
“I believe the public was looking at the U.S. debt, deficit, and the ensuing political struggle with one eye, and looking at Europe and their sovereign debt issues with the other eye, and saying: ‘This is not what we want’,” Duncan said.
From the NY Times:
Renting Is All the Rage
BROKERS these days, wrestling with dwindling sales, would have their clients believe that there is no better time than the present to buy a home. Prices are down, they say, and mortgage rates are at all-time lows.
Unfortunately for the brokers, many clients are not persuaded by that logic. Instead, in increasing numbers, they are choosing to rent — unconvinced that the housing market has yet hit bottom.
Mark Overton and Stephanie Engeln, both in their 50s and residents of Hudson Park, a 560-unit rental complex in Yonkers, said they saw no advantage in buying at this point. “Why would we?” asked Mr. Overton, the head carpenter on the set for the Broadway play “Wicked.”
For one thing, their one-bedroom has stunning views of the Palisades and the George Washington Bridge. For another, he said, “like everyone else, we’re nervous about the housing market and prefer to rent. If we do ever decide to buy, it certainly wouldn’t be in this market.” Ms. Engeln, an operatic scenic designer, also works in Manhattan.
Arthur Collins, the president of Collins Enterprises of Stamford, Conn., the developer that built the first phase of Hudson Park in 2005 and the second in 2008, said he had never seen occupancy rates at the complex as high as they are today, about 95 percent. Nor, he said, has he seen such a broad mix of tenants: fewer young transient residents and more families and empty-nesters who no longer have homeownership on their wish list.
wooow, relish your things hind part before For what purpose aren’t asylum sailing craft rates spurring sales? | Modern Jersey Genuine Fortune
Doesn’t matter how low rates or home prices go if you do not have a job, Also, in addition to a mortgage fewer people who are fortunate enough to have middle class salary jobs in NJ are opting to rent or invest in lower cost states instead of paying the 12K property taxes on the average NJ fixer-upper. Owning a home in NJ is a BAD investment as things stand right now. Mortgage interest+High taxes+Cost to maintain or fix a home generally = a Neg return on investment. Use the rent to own calculators, Only under optimum conditions is it better to own than rent and that still takes a 15-20 year investment before you come out ahead by owning. Its a chance most people who have uncertain job security are unwilling to take in todays market.
Wait ’til your kids and grandkids are on the hook for paying off a quadrillion in debt with maturities from 10 years and out.
We will see death panels. Most of the population from Boomers to GenX should be offed; we are simply too stupid to live.
My new call is for almost complete human extinction. We’ve hit our Peter Principle, folks.
Clot how is the store coming along.
Obviously, Bojangles, Congresscritters, FedCo and Eraserhead Inc. don’t understand the simple concept (and destructive power of) compounding…even though it has been demonstrated to them repreatedly. The only conclusion that one can reach is that they are all retarded.
mikey (8)-
Great. It is also a welcome distraction from thinking about imminent human extinction for 10-12 hours every day.
http://www.northjersey.com/news/business/129482333_Eight_decades_of_selling_furniture_coming_to_a_close_.html
Perhaps the Post Office should take the same route . Close the doors.
Is it me, or has Biden finally gone 100% batshit crazy?
Don’t need Bograd’s to sell you a piece of plywood on sawhorses or a half-dozen milk crates.
Look at all the McMansions that had no furniture in them while the RE market was still booming. There is no market for quality furniture anymore.
There’s no middle class anymore. Just a hollowed-out shell in the population, filled with the stunned, dazed half-dead.
no first class mail anylonger . close the doors , business model broken . that’s the point . no market for the mailman anymore
Don’t worry. Thomas Friedman has a plan to restore us to our former glory.
So, now they are saying the threat IS vehicle bombs. BUT, the official focus is on empty vehicles parked where they should not be parked. This is just the ossified thinking I referencd last night.
The threat I would most worry about ths weekend, wereI in charge, is the moving tunnle bombs I mentioned last night. If one can avoid the tunnles this weekend, U would look to alternatives.
If we are running on a deficit , cut spending on something to pay for something else.How can you call the latter paid for?
Yawn….Good Morning New Jersey And Happy Friday!
“would have their clients believe that there is no better time than the present to buy a home”
always a good time to buy overpriced crapbox in Upper Haughtyville. At least you get the diversity in dinner parties. White, middle-class, middle-aged liberals from all imaginable marxist factions. Little Graydon is so lucky to grow up there!
Mish,
“The US cannot afford a $447 billion boondoggle that will create zero lasting jobs, for no other purpose than to get the president reelected. If Congress has any sense, this proposal will be Dead-on-Arrival in the US house.”
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/09/dissecting-lies-in-obamas-477-billion.html
17 my god hope they did not get the info from warrantless eavesdropping, which, as you correctly pointed out, is the biggest threat to this country. Of forgot, no big deal anymore. Warrantless killings of US citizens, ordered by POTUS, is now fine. Silly me.
Who pays for lost revenue on payroll tax?
Wonder what the state dept will come up with this time around?
Perhaps they will get some crack head from Algeria to put a brick of C4 in his tighty whitey’s and offer him 10k to light it off on a plane?
Then Michael Chertoff can make some cash installing body scanners in the airports.
Oh wait. We have seen that one already.
Be afraid people. Its your patriotic duty.
“Who pays for lost revenue on payroll tax?”
It gets paid for in one of two ways:
1) By taxing the rich; or,
2) It will get paid for by some magical future action taken after some future election.
Google acquired Zagat? Wow
“How can you call the latter paid for?”
The same way a large increase in year-over-year spending that does not rise as high as originally planned gets characterized as a budget cut.
People are not buying (the ones that can) because prices will continue to go lower, as may interest rates. property taxes are ugly, and getting uglier and many of these houses need work, not just cosmetics.
Plus there is no sense of urgency to buy, and quite frankly maybe it is no longer so fashionable to say I am a so called homeowner. All the friends and family I know who were th loudest cheer leaders for real estate are now as quiet as church mice on the subject.
“Why aren’t rock bottom rates spurring sales?”
Similar to saying why isn’t the wife of a 90 year old man giving him a stiffy when she is purring nude on the bed…..some logical combination of lack of desire and lack of ability….
un mod?
chicagofinance says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
September 9, 2011 at 9:11 am
“Why aren’t rock bottom rates spurring sales?”
Similar to saying why isn’t the wife of a 90 year old man giving him a stiffy when she is purring naked on the bed…..some logical combination of lack of desire and lack of ability….
3b – “people are not buying”
50,000 homes were purchased in NJ in the first half of the year. Clearly plenty of people are still buying, no?
There Went Meat says:
September 9, 2011 at 7:13 am
Is it me, or has Biden finally gone 100% batshit crazy?
His hair plugs accidentally punctured his skull several years ago and over the course of several years have completely putrified his gray matter.
Even during the best volume years, H1 sales hovered around 80-90k.
Heck, if we go as far back as 2001-2002, which I’d probably call a pretty “normal” market years (yes it was during the run-up, but not nearly as crazy as the middle part of the 00’s), we were only tracking 60k for the first half.
Can’t I play devils advocate here and say we’ve just gotten back to normal at 50k a half? Would it be crazy to say the market isn’t depressed at all from a volume perspective?
50 miles an hour feels pretty darn slow if you were just cruising on the Turnpike at 80.
BofA to cut 40k. I hate their in house attys so this is good news.
I hear they are outsourcing their robosigning to India.
He [21],
Nothing more than a $400B slush fund for the 2012 campaign. The $800B stimulus plan has been flushed down the toilet, costing approx $500,000 for each job created. Therefore, they dress this pig in different attire. A more appropriate name for this campaign blitz; Cash from a Clunker.
“Therefore, they dress this pig in different attire.”
They could put that pig in lipstick and garters, or John’s manties, and it would still be a pig. Just good money after bad and it does not move the nation forward in any meaningful way — unless by forward one means deeper into debt. After all, Thelma and Louise were moving forward with great velocity.
#38 – Shore – We’re done, it is over. We’re all too lazy. Nobody wants a job when they can get a handout instead. WPA 2.0 would fail miserably, they wouldn’t be able to find a single damn worker today.
Look around at the great monuments and triumphs, you’ll never see a new one again. We could never execute on the kinds of projects prior generations were able to.
Appeals court in VA overturned challenges to obamacare. One judgment said that mandate charge is a tax, which is what DoJ argued. I pointed out before that the admin said in their pleadings that the mandate was a tax.
That makes Obama a liar w/ respect to his biggest pledge. Not that this is news. But he did say “not one thin dime” of new taxes for the middle class. He said it, and it was clear and unequivocal, yet he pushed legislation that imposes new taxes and eliminates exclusions. These affect the middle class, and furthermore, they are regressive. To me, that’s a twofer.
He has broken this pledge repeatedly. There’s no debate about that. And MSM is utterly ignoring this (okay, Fox isn’t, but that is of little moment).
I had a long conversation with one of my brothers last night. He was a big time Democrat and big supporter of the O-man; even went to see the inauguration. Now he sees things for what they are – no difference between the parties, they are all bought and paid for by the same people running the show behind the scenes. He just can’t believe Obama squandered all the good will he had been given just like Bush squandered it after 9/11 – the reality is the people running the show could give a flying fig about your good will they just want your money and the continued security of their own status.
Read the fine print on Obama’s proclaimed 50% cut to the payroll tax. Turns out, it is only 50% cut to the social security and medicare portion of the payroll tax. Big whoop.
4 years to build the Hoover Dam, how long would it take today? I don’t think we could even set up a planning commission in 4 years.
We can’t even build a damn tunnel under a river.
450bn down a hole…just to buy re-election.
What is the point of staying prez of a country that is rapidly becoming a hybrid of all the worst features of Argentina, Japan, the Euro periphery and Zimbabwe?
grim (43)-
What’s even more scary is that we can’t throw a proper war.
Imagine the fiasco that repurposing what’s left of our industrial base into wartime production would be. We’d be speaking Mandarin within months.
Of course, Montklair would play the Vichy role…welcoming our new overlords into their midst. They would also serve up dissidents like Stu on a platter for re-education.
Hey, Jerry. What’s the story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIKyB8Ufh7Q
From the era of Crazy Eddie commercials. Does anyone else remember this, or were you not born yet?
#34 Grim – It is not sales volume so much as what is being sold. Bulk sales of REO and inner city, small multi family homes purchased by investors don’t make the market move forward the same way that purchases of “move up homes” do. These sales also lack the residual impact to the overall economy. They don’t spur additional consumer activity.
#32 grim: I did not mean no buying, but just that simply in response to the article posted my response was addressed to the question as to why more people may not be buying. As far as myself and wife, it is now a case of when we get around to it. The owner of the house I live in, now says he is flexible as far as when we have to leave. So for us at least no urgency, it is now one of those things we have to get around to, like change the oil, pick up dry cleaning, oh and buy a house.
From what I am told by a couple of local Realtors Bergen Co on a whole was very quiet this Spring selling season; even in the land of Unicorns.
“Look around at the great monuments ”
Oh, we are all for creating monuments and glorifying our past achievements. I just don’t see leaders who can, well, lead and persuade the people to achieve great things that may be worthy of monuments sometime in the future. What was te line from Sunset Blvd.? Something to the effect that “It was the pictures that got small.” Our collective political vision has gotten small.
I would have had more respect for O if he pulled a JFK Moon speech out of his ass.
…
We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.
It is for these reasons that I regard the decision last year to shift our efforts in space from low to high gear as among the most important decisions that will be made during my incumbency in the office of the Presidency.
In the last 24 hours we have seen facilities now being created for the greatest and most complex exploration in man’s history. We have felt the ground shake and the air shattered by the testing of a Saturn C-1 booster rocket, many times as powerful as the Atlas which launched John Glenn, generating power equivalent to 10,000 automobiles with their accelerators on the floor. We have seen the site where the F-1 rocket engines, each one as powerful as all eight engines of the Saturn combined, will be clustered together to make the advanced Saturn missile, assembled in a new building to be built at Cape Canaveral as tall as a 48 story structure, as wide as a city block, and as long as two lengths of this field.
Within these last 19 months at least 45 satellites have circled the earth. Some 40 of them were “made in the United States of America” and they were far more sophisticated and supplied far more knowledge to the people of the world than those of the Soviet Union.
The Mariner spacecraft now on its way to Venus is the most intricate instrument in the history of space science. The accuracy of that shot is comparable to firing a missile from Cape Canaveral and dropping it in this stadium between the the 40-yard lines.
Transit satellites are helping our ships at sea to steer a safer course. Tiros satellites have given us unprecedented warnings of hurricanes and storms, and will do the same for forest fires and icebergs.
We have had our failures, but so have others, even if they do not admit them. And they may be less public.
To be sure, we are behind, and will be behind for some time in manned flight. But we do not intend to stay behind, and in this decade, we shall make up and move ahead.
The growth of our science and education will be enriched by new knowledge of our universe and environment, by new techniques of learning and mapping and observation, by new tools and computers for industry, medicine, the home as well as the school. Technical institutions, such as Rice, will reap the harvest of these gains.
#43 grim: In the land of Unicorns they are installing a traffic light on the corner of Kinderkamack Rd and Howland Avenue. It took 3 years to get it approved by the town and county. The started the project in July, over 2 months ago and it is not done, this again is for one traffic light!!!!
Nothing but doom on the horizon. Say goodbye to Greece.
50 year bonds anyone? Wheres my 1% mortgage Mr. Bernanke?
Grim,
Just imagine for a moment what it would have meant for the nation if, instead of the failed stimulus and this proposed boondogle, we had taken $1T+ and used it to build solar-cell and wind-turbine factories, and had made it virtually free for people to get the equipment for homes and commercial buildings. We would have created jobs building factories, manufacturing jobs, transportation jobs, installation and repair jobs — AND it would have cost no more than we spent anyway AND it would have both reduced our need for non-North-American sources of energy AND moverd us forward in terms of energy and environmental quality.
Re: Payroll Tax Cut;
Something about this appeals to me — that it would be the beginning of starving the beast. The rising generational all know to a metaphysical certainty that SS will not be around when we retire. The rising generation also knows that when (not if) SS benefits are means-tested and the cap on income subject to the tax is lifted, it will no longer be anthing like an pension plan and in actuality would be just another welfare plan, limited to broke Baby Boomers who were having to much fun living it up on the grandkids’ money to be bothered saving for their retirement over 40-50 years of their working life. So the sooner we get to stop paying for it the better. If I could get away with calling my job a religion I’d declare my income exempt on first amendment grounds yesterday.
But the Dems have to know all this too, which makes me wonder why they’d propose it. My best guess is that they’ll do it because they can; because they know that AARP won’t attack them for it desipte the clear threat to the system.
Re 53,
Yeah scary thing is Bernanke and the doves are going to have the green light to get creative next week – God only knows the what new problems they will create.
Wind turbines? Can’t build ’em anywhere. They’ll spoil the view, they’ll impact migratory birds. Too loud, and just too dangerous. Can’t you put them in PA? Not in my back yard.
Shore, #54….
AND people would then have been complaining about how the solar plant that the O man cheered for became bankrupt, and instead of that, he should have given some tax cuts?
There is no solution other than a lowering of standard of living for most of the people. Well, at least there is plenty of food here. Short of some technological miracle in a few years, we are screwed badly.
“If I could get away with calling my job a religion…”
Isn’t everyone’s? I am frequently told that since I should be doing the “noble work” out of “love for science”, I should shut up and take it like a man.
From the Empty Suit In Chief’s hometown paper:
http://www.suntimes.com/business/savage/7549320-417/jobs-speech-by-obama-was-great-but-it-just-doesnt-add-up.html
“spoil the view, they’ll impact migratory birds. Too loud, and just too dangerous.”
Ho is it possible that we are the offspring of people who threw-asid the certainty of life in Europe, carved-out a foothold on the east coast and then created the most-advanced and powerful nation ever (at least at one time) out of nothing? The current crowd never would have gotten over the first mountain range or across the first big river.
What this country needs is a select committee, to study the feasibility of creating a comittee to consider the idea of possible proposing a working group to consider ways to move the nation forward sometime before 2150.
Ho=how
Grim, re Hoover dam. I reference things like this all the time, could we repeat this feat today yes! Keep the unions out and bring up 50,000 mexicans it would get done. Americans don’t work, want to get paid, the local and state governments fight, the contractors would get supremely overpaid, this is the problem with our infrastructure spending. Local and state governments cannot be involved, contract need to be publicly bid, none of this approved contractors who have given campaign contributions so they can make huge profits. I constantly ask the question why even accounting for inflation should the roads, bridges, tunnels cost an order of magnitude more today than they did 100 years ago before computers and modern heavy tools. It is truly sad that a bunch of guys with shovels can out do the people of today with their computers and diesel powered tools.
As I look at the 450 billion in proposed stimulus I just get this sinking feeling that we cannot borrow our way into prosperity. I just cannot support a program that shoulders our children with the responsibility of paying for our mistakes today. Adding more to the total that our children will have to pay is selfish and short-sighted.
I, like Grim, would have liked to hear a driving plan rather than a consumptive plan. I believe that anyone can come up with a plan to spend tomorrow’s dollars today, a real leader would tell me how using tomorrow’s dollars today would provide a larger benefit by spending them today rather than tomorrow. I’m of the thought that all the efficiencies from stimulus would have been realized in the last massive stimulus. If there are still efficiencies to be had then those driving the first stimulus are not competent enough to run a second stimulus.
Strong federal government needs to beat the nimby’s down. My favorite thing recently was in Jersey City St. Peters College somehow raised a 100 million dollars to expand their campus and the people in the surrounding area were up in arms over eminent domain on 50 or so homes, where only a handful weren’t in need of repair. Half of the people in this are are unemployed or under employed, a construction project like this would be a good thing in this economy and damn the 50 or so people who’d have to move and likely be well compensated for it.
If there is a feasible place to put turbines, let the feds figure out a plan and execute. Feelings will be hurt but we need action, not a lack of action.
Anon #55: The whole argument about how “the trust fund will be gone by 2037” is just propaganda B.S. The whole reason for the trust fund was always just to get the elephant through the snake — to handle baby boom retirement until the entire generation (or most of it) has left this mortal coil. The baby boom peaked around 1955-57, which means that most of them that are still alive will be in their 80’s and on their way out. After that the system goes back into the kind of balance it was in before…and there is no NEED for a “trust fund surplus”.
As for this idea that baby boomers haven’t put anything away, well, I can’t speak for everyone, but everyone I know has tried to put away as much as they can given that it’s going to cost over $100K to send their kids to college.
It is a shame U.S. networds do not do this kind of interview any more, aside, perhaps, from 60 Minutes:
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3314761.htm
Someone I work with just closed on his house. Not a short sale. Just wants out of NJ.
Bought -2007- $999,900
Finished the room over the garage. new water heater and furnace.
Sold- 2011- $775,000
OUCH.
NJC,
Talk about an exit tax.
i lthink we call that a distress sale. i hope he stiffed the banks with some equity loans
NJC [68];
The $1 MM purchase in 2007 was obviously a move-up. How much of that $225k loss in 2011 was phantom equity rolled over from whatever he sold in 2007?
A casino pit boss will tell you when a gambler scores a hit… “Its not his until he takes it to the [cashier’s] cage.” Your friend let it ride and reversion to the mean got him.
JJ:
CUSIP 59022CCS0
Opinion?
JC [66];
The baby boom peaked around 1955-57, which means that most of them that are still alive will be in their 80′s and on their way out.
I think you need to check you math. Baby Boomers born ’55-’57 will be aged 56-58 today. The leading edge of the baby boom, ’48, are now in their early 60’s, and begining to retire. Particularly, those hit by a job loss are opting for early benefits rather than waiting for full retirement age, which is one of the reasons that SS ran a negative current balance for the first time last year. That means we’re already starting to draw down on the Treasury IOUs that are the SS Trust fund. The problem is where to find the funds to pay off those IOUs – increase taxes? borrow more from China?
How can you possibly think that this pig has already passed through the snake?
JC [66] (con’t);
As for this idea that baby boomers haven’t put anything away, well, I can’t speak for everyone, but everyone I know has tried to put away as much as they can given that it’s going to cost over $100K to send their kids to college.
A) Its an interesting demographic shift that a retiree or someone facing imminent retirement is concerned about what it is >going to< cost to send his kids to college when they are 18-22. Did they start their family in their 40's?
B) The Higher Ed Bubble is another interesting phenomenon; I don't think its collapse will do as much widespread damage to the economy, though it will be fun to watch the all the lefty professors squeal about it. The damage to the economy done by the higher ed bubble is unfortunately already with us, in teh form of non-dischargeable student load debt – one fresh level of hell worse than being underwater on a house.
C) As long as we're comparing anecdotes, most boomers I know thought that their house was their retirement plan – my old saw of "You screw my kids; I'll screw your kids; and we'll all retire in Boca together."
The recommendations of the National Commission on Social Security Reform in 1983 led to the growth of a large surplus in Social Security. This surplus was used to buy bonds and now Social Security holds more than $2.6 trillion in government bonds. As a result, the Congressional Budget Office’s projections show that the program will maintain full solvency through the year 2038. Even if Congress never makes any changes to the program, Social Security will be able to pay slightly more than 80 percent of scheduled benefits from then on.
If you were to retire at the normal retirement age for a person born in 1957, you would initially get a benefit of $34,802 (in 2011 dollars) per year through 2038 and starting in 2039, a benefit of $27,842 (also in 2011 dollars) each year for the rest of your life. Clearly a program that is projected to pay substantial benefits for decades to come is not in danger of bankruptcy.
How many in the tail end of boomers will be alive after 81years old?
#66 JC: I don’t know any one (except myself) who is or has put money away for college; it is all loans. that would go a long way to explain the 2 trillion dollars worth of student loans outstanding.
Particularly, those hit by a job loss are opting for early benefits rather than waiting for full retirement age
Moose – I have anecdotal evidence of this. My MIL, out of work for 3 years now, UE bennies totally gone, only income available in the future is SS bennies. Hasn’t been on one interview in 3 years, just seems to think the world will provide.
grim says:
September 9, 2011 at 10:30 am
Wind turbines? Can’t build ‘em anywhere. They’ll spoil the view, they’ll impact migratory birds. Too loud, and just too dangerous. Can’t you put them in PA? Not in my back yard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na6HxKQQsAM&feature=related
The guy is not a previous homeowner. Just a playa’- concert promoter, nightclub owner, racehorse owner. Takes the big hits along with gains. I begged him in ’07 not to buy the house. He paid mostly cash. It was a flipper that had traded 5 times since ’96 from $419,000 to $999,900. I showed him all the previous sales. He told me real estate can only go up…yada, yada. He also was paying over $18,000 per year in property taxes. I won’t rub salt in the wound with an “I told you so”.
NJC [68];
The $1 MM purchase in 2007 was obviously a move-up. How much of that $225k loss in 2011 was phantom equity rolled over from whatever he sold in 2007?
A casino pit boss will tell you when a gambler scores a hit… “Its not his until he takes it to the [cashier’s] cage.” Your friend let it ride and reversion to the mean got him.
great, if there ever going to be a real war, we’ll have to rely on smoke signals and eye sight.
“SEOUL – A US military reconnaissance plane came under electronic attack from North Korea and had to make an emergency landing during a major military exercise in March, a political aide said Friday
The signals also affected South Korean naval patrol boats and speedboats, as well as several civilian flights near Seoul’s Gimpo area, according to the report.
Seoul mobile users also complained of bad connections, and the military reported GPS device malfunctions “
The job market has been brutal to those 55-65, my FIL and MIL were both laid off. The culprit seems to have been the whole offshoring thing. My FIL has plenty of money so he retired, my MIL has been looking for work for 6 months. My impression is it is hard to get a job if you are in your 50’s, many of these people are opting out of the workforce. Offshoring, outsourcing, H1b visas are a culprit in a lot of this as companies try to show growth in profits by cutting costs. Wall Street is ruining this country.
JC says:
September 9, 2011 at 10:57 am
As for this idea that baby boomers haven’t put anything away, well, I can’t speak for everyone, but everyone I know has tried to put away as much as they can given that it’s going to cost over $100K to send their kids to college.
…..$200K
78 – is it wrong to laugh at that video?
First step in college bubble deflation process will be the phasing out of “need blind” admissions. It is happening, but not publicized……I apologize to anyone who may be offended, but several local name brand colleges have no more academic standards for undergraduate admission. They basically allow anyone with a sufficent SAT score and the willingness to pay full freight. Seton Hall and Fordham are prime examples.
After watching it a second time, I call staged. Someone had to have dumped carrion at the base of the turbine to try to attract the vulture and get it to circle. The video just seems too coincidental.
SJ Coffee Shop Cited for Nude Waitresses
Looks like San Jose police are finally cracking down on the sexy Vietnamese coffee shops in the area that are offering more than just sugar with their Joe.
While on patrol Sunday evening, SJPD officers observed several female waitresses showing off a little too much skin, in one of the shops on the 1600 block of Tully Road.
Three female workers of the Quyen Cafe, ages 22, 22, and 23, were identified and cited for display of public nudity, a municipal code violation.
They were only cited, not arrested, but will still have to appear in court.
“The police department is aware that some establishments have had employees working as waitresses or bartenders while semi-nude or topless,” Officer Jose Garcia told the Merc.
We brought you the story back in June, about how several Vietnamese coffee shops were getting complaints from spouses of some patrons, for hosting a strip-club-like atmosphere.
At the time, police said there was little they could do unless the shops were breaking human-trafficking, or underage laws.
Officials have been mulling over ways to get the coffee shops to cool down the hot coffee, and the Cafe may end up being cited down the line.
There are about 20 similar shops in the three-square-mile area of San Jose.
grim: this video is one of my son’s favorites for whatever reason….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=H_gk-0xBs8Q&feature=fvwp
All in the buildup
The End Is Nigh (WTF Edition):
Florida ‘vampire’ attacks senior citizen at vacant Hooters
ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. — A 22-year-old woman in St. Petersburg, Fla., sank her teeth into a wheelchair-bound senior citizen in a bloody late-night attack after declaring herself a vampire, police said.
Milton Ellis, 69, survived the alleged biting spree on the porch of a vacant Hooters restaurant but was hospitalized with wounds to his face, lip and neck, myFOXtampabay.com reported Friday.
Ellis told police Thursday that he met Josephine Rebecca Smith shortly before midnight at a Shell gas station on Roosevelt Boulevard in St. Petersburg.
“He was staying near an overhang near the vacant Hooters restaurant, so he thought it might be a good place for her to stay,” according to the St. Petersburg Police Department’s Mike Puetz. “After he fell asleep on the ground, he claims that she attacked him, started yelling that she was a vampire, that she was going to eat him and started biting him by his face and body.”
With blood still oozing from bite marks on his neck, Ellis made his way back to the gas station in his wheelchair, before calling police.
Officers found Smith on the porch at Hooters, half naked and covered in Ellis’ blood. Police said that she had not been assaulted in any way.
Smith, who said she does not remember anything, was charged with aggravated battery on an elderly person.
Ellis was treated at a local hospital. The bites required stitches, but he was expected to recover.
Once Greece defaults and they reinstate the Drachma, vultures will be buying Greek RE for pennies/dollar.
why are people not buying?
I did a little study in my town, looking at all houses in a price range that sold between 2004-2007 and have subsequently sold or are for sale.
Of houses that traded between 2004-2007, and have since sold, the average decline price is 19.6% (loss), min price drop 5%, max price drop 34%.
Of houses that traded between 2004-2007 and are currently for sale, the average price change (current listing price vs prior sale price) is -5% (loss), with a max price drop of 24% (ask price is lower than prior purchase price), and min price drop is +15% (ask price is higher than 2005 purchase price).
Obviously, for much of the inventory, there is a disconnect between bids and offers, and the market is at a stalemate.
Re 75- With all the drugs and availability of medical procedures you can bet your sweet bippy that there might be plenty of baby boomers alive after age 81. Granted, they may not be in the best physical shape but they will still be breathing.
Bost: here you go….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj4QrAcwVi0
Can we get the PPT back in the office, no early weekends for them, markets need their help
Anon #73: So what you are saying is that they stole the money for tax cuts and wars, and have no intention of paying it back, so suck it up, losers; what are you going to do about it?
Right?
OT alert
Bridgewater soccer tournament Saturday games canceled. But my daughters team still to play Millburn in s scrimmage.
Have to spend some time teaching her how to shove and battle inside. Not gonna let her get bullied by these self absorbed, unicorn riding snots. S/b good practice for Summit. Will be a good day if she collects a yellow card.
Chi,
Thanks. I guess I’m destined to see this. Two friends sent me the same link.
JC [94];
Anon #73: So what you are saying is that they stole the money for tax cuts and wars, and have no intention of paying it back, so suck it up, losers; what are you going to do about it?
Right?
That’s not a bad summary. What are we going to do about it?
A) Ensure that history remembers the baby boomers as the worst ever generation; the first gerneation in a centruy to hand their children a country worse than they received it; a generation that squandered what was given to them like no generation before; and
B) The generation that the BBs screwed is going to be the generation in power when the BB are most vulnerable. In short, be nice to your children because they will pick your nurning home. The rising generation will not tolerate the taxes necessary to pay all that the baby boomers have promised to themselves. There’s a cultural angle to it as well: Because of declining fertility, it will largely be the children of immigrants who did the jobs that “Americans won’t do” at slave wages who are going to be asked to bear the financial burden of a plantinum retirement for aging white seniors. How do you suppose that is going to work out?
We’re living in a depression. And just like the 30’s, we won’t call it that except in hindsight. I’d call it the “Baby Boomer Depression”, but they’d just think I was concerned about their mental health.
I think I’ve spotted unicorns in Warren, NJ. Here’s a listing that sold for $1.86mn at the real estate top of 11/05, and is now being offered to discriminating buyers for only $100k more, $1.99mn.
http://www.trulia.com/property/3062884134-9-Kensington-Ct-Warren-NJ-07059
Who is buying these? Bailed-out Citigroup guys getting sent out of NYC into the Warren office?
A West #98 – got ya beat, here is one at a mere $428k reverse-discount (ok more expensive than 2005 price, where they got ripped off in the first place)
http://www.trulia.com/property/3052667631-12-Cobblestone-Dr-Upper-Saddle-River-NJ-07458
clot: opinions…..let ‘er rip :)
http://www.charsteakhouse.com/dinnermenu.php
also, this makes no sense….
Char Steakhouse is a supporter of Breast Cancer Research
shouldn’t they be supporters of Prostate Cancer Research?
More wasteful spending that goes unchecked
http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/09/technology/solyndra_fbi/
FBI raids bankrupt solar venture Solyndra
The company’s factory was built with a $535 million loan backed by the Department of Energy. It was touted by President Obama as one of the ways his administration is nurturing a new, jobs-creating clean energy economy.
Found this article interesting. I’ve been involved in deals with some people mentioned here, and one was even a client.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/44451703
You had to know the other shoe was going to drop, but I think the Obamunists made a miscalculation here. By having the deficit/debt debate separate, and revealing it after, the jobs initiative, he gives up a lot of momentum, and gives the GOP leverage. First, it can treat the jobs thing separately, and perhaps modify it to look GOPish and put something in front of Obama that forces Obama to perhaps delay his own initiatives. Or they can consider it with debt/deficit and produce a bill that gives Obama very little but reflects “compromise.”
If it were up to me as Majority Leader, I’d marry the spending cuts with infrastructure in one bill, and send it to the Senate. I’d table the payroll tax extension and state bailout stuff for the debt talks with the explanation that it makes more sense to make meaningful, lasting tax and spending reform rather than pump sugar high money into union shops. Then, when Obama has to accept a partial measure that the GOP will bill as compromise (“see, we agree it’s important so we fast-tracked it so you can get people back to work”), it takes the Party of No off the table, denies him a full victory, and takes the wind out of his sails.
But then again, I am not Majority Leader (much to Fabius’ relief, no doubt).
oh, a link would help, wouldn’t it?
http://www.cnbc.com/id/44445467
Len Burman (not exactly a conservative, he), had some rather tepid praise for Dear Leader’s initatives:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/leonardburman/2011/09/08/very-quick-thoughts-on-president-obamas-jobs-speech/
He also excoriated the payroll tax reduction. If one of the most thoughtful, liberal tax wonks on the planet thinks it’s bad, well, I can’t blame the GOP for not going along.
David Brooks also got off the reservation at NYT. His praise was tepid at best. The folks in Carney’s office must be irate at the lack of full-throated response they are getting from normally reliable journalists.
Char Steakhouse looks interesting, I drive past it a lot when coming/going from Wegmans, and have been curious about it. I don’t like online menus without prices, though. They change that fast?
I think I save a lot by using Costco prime NY Strips/Ribeyes and making my own creamed spinach. But then I do miss out on the dry aging.
Nom,
Brooks was supposed to be the token conservative when he got hired. He was the sort that I never liked in the first place, and he’s just gotten worse over time. Any praise at all from token Brooks shows that dissent is forbidden at the NY Times.
Most red blooded american males I know who eat at steakhouses certainly support Breasts, I would think a restaurant in Greenwich Village would be more interested in Prostates. Speaking of Prostates Rudy G was in the house downtown today with Grasso and Clinton
chicagofinance says:
September 9, 2011 at 1:44 pm
also, this makes no sense….
Char Steakhouse is a supporter of Breast Cancer Research
shouldn’t they be supporters of Cancer Research?
Any stimulus should really bring capitol from the banks as well as the gov’t if it is to be effective, tax credits for buying things, doing things, or corporate investments in their infrastructure or on building domestic manufacturing capabilities. Obama’s plan of throwing money we don’t have at a problem that won’t go away does not sound enticing. A decent plan would put 2 or 3 dollars into the economy for every dollar of stimulus money and great plan would manage to give people a dollar and get them to spend 5 dollars, of course targeted in areas that promote hiring and getting money into the hands of lower and middle class income earners.
10 year at 1.915.
Mr Bernanke! Where is my f_ckin 3.75% mortgage you lying b_astard!
My reaction to the “jobs speech”? I didn’t listen, just read the summary sans propaganda.
Jobs are the effect not the cause. It seems that most politicians, economists, and commentators are brain-dead Keynesian zombies, and don’t understand that you need profitable production to generate “demand” and jobs. Politicians cannot possibly create it, other than by getting out of peoples’ way. If you pay people to not work, there’s a greater likelihood they won’t. Employers know that these so called payroll tax cuts are temporary, but statist mandates for employees are high and rising (with Obamacare still representing a black hole of uncertainty). So every employee comes with an uncertain and unknowable liability – how many companies want that right now?
The way to encourage an environment for hiring is to structurally free up the economy such that the marginal attractiveness of investing in productive capacity in the US is higher than elsewhere, and business see the prospects of high ROI. 40 years ago, the US only had to be marginally more attractive to businesses than France or the UK to win investment from the global pool. Now there are many more appealing alternatives. It doesn’t have to be that way, but it would take an entirely different approach to thinking about how a government “helps” an economy than what we have now.
#84,
And it happens at the Ivys too. My girl went to Columbia through the “School of Continuing Education”. No high SATs, no interviews, no questions asked. A HS diploma and willingness to pay their ridiculous tuition gets you an Asian studies degree and 160k in debt. She is now unemployed and her Ivy league school hasn’t helped find her a thing. Equivalent to Ninja loans of yesteryear. I wonder if HS kids know that their spotless academics are being undermined by these institutions by absolute greed.
Good thing the weekend is coming up; great chance for European leaders to get together come up with their 1397955470966th plan to save the Euro.
A. West[112], my sentiments exactly. The stimulus should be targeted at enticing economic productivity in the USA. Get businesses to expand, while we are saying there is a cost in that we will provide tax breaks chances are it actually costs nothing because without the incentives the business goes elsewhere. Our NJ politicians are terrible at this as well(cough, Corey Booker), in that instead of making tax concessions to bring in employers who will build facilities, which increases tax revenue even if there is a PILOT vs the fecund site doing nothing. Using tax credits to reward expansion of businesses is one thing that is always missing. Penalize offshoring any reasonable way and promote domestic business.
3b 28
don’t worry things are as bad in NJ re as ever. it’s just grim who changed the tune. Now he’s an owner, has a nytimes plug, and speaks like a relator albeit an “educated” one. unfortunately his numbers interpretation is misleading. One look at the sales history graph shows that sales are crashing even though rates are lowest.
http://cr4re.com/charts/charts.html?Existing-Home#category=Existing-Home&chart=EHSJuly2011.jpg
nj houses still cost 50% more than what they used to in 2000 while incomes are stagnant, taxes and utilities, maintenance, living expenses is through the roof. no matter what realtors and shills would like you to believe prices are going down down down
buy now or priced out forever hahaha
114, the euro will not be saved nor destroyed. It will simply exist, it is a beast that can no longer be controlled, the options are kill it and watch it destroy many things near and dear to europeans or wait for it to tire and go back to it’s cage. They have no options because it is a currency controlled by committee. Letting Greece or even worse Italy default would probably only result in a bank run and further global financial crisis. In a word really way to big to fail. The only way out is to bailout the eurozone countries, and print. Currency debasement is the only way out of a debt crisis like this, take 1 euro convert it to 2 everyone has 2x the amount of income, everything costs 2x as much, taxes are 2x as high, debt holders get f’d(Mostly China).
The US economy is structurally flawed. Nothing will fix it until those things are corrected. You can b_tch and moan all you want but here are your fixes.
1. Import tariffs. Repeal of NAFTA. You cant compete with slave labor.
2. Sound currency. End the f_ckin Fed.
3. Reinstate Glass Steagal
4. Flat tax or Fair tax. Eradicate income tax.
5. End the wars and the military industrial complex.
6. Energy self sufficiency. Natural gas, renewable whatever. This alone would eliminate 500 billion annually from the trade deficit.
Re# 82
Anyone who falls for the education establishment mumbo-jumbo is a moron. My step-daughter jumped from a two year community college into a good university as a second semester junior with a couple of thousand in current debt.
She got over the typical teen nonsense, developed leadership skills in the CC, and now is the director of the university’s Distinguished Lecture Series building contacts.
She will take the GRE and do grad work at a different school where she gets in-state tuition.
Nobody will care where the first two years were done.
Considering women only work till around 32 when they drop out and start having babies it is hard to justify too expensive a degree.
Westjester – When hiring for some recent openings here, we specifically avoided Ivy’s and newly minted MBA’s. For some reason, these kids show up expecting to be the head of a deal team and show no willingness climb the ladder. They also exhibit (very outwardly) contempt if they are working under someone that doesn’t have the MBA or Ivy diploma.
I will take a kid that has been working the business for the last 2-4 years over an MBA with a gigantic sense of entitlement any day of the week.
Heavens to Murgatroyd I would never hire an Ivy.
#103 Nom
Funny, that article lights up my Rolodex as well.
JJ – I had a Columbia undergrad working on my team 5 years ago, I was mid-level member then. MD asks her to send some contracts out by FedEx, she looks MD in the eye and says “I don’t send out FedEx’s I went to Columbia, Im not a secretary.”
MD sent his own FedEx, and sent Columbia a pink slip. Hope she enjoyed maintaining her principals and self-respect at the unemployment office.
My son graduated at RU.Lived at home no student loans.Works at MS,his co workers went to NYU with over $150k in loans.You can call it luck but I will call it smart.Single kid living at home,enjoying and saving his money.
#104 Nom,
The joke on the golf channel this morning was “with a 2 under on the first day and an 86 on the second, Tiger is now qualified to be speaker of the house”
http://www.politico.com/blogs/click/0911/Boehner_Biden_chat_about_golf.html?showall
You might as well be speaker of the house. Bonehead can’t control the caucus so he is just treading water.
Ivy girls only like Ivy people. In fact they wash in Ivy Snow. I only had Ivy guys work for me and they are even worse. The Harvard guy I briefy had working for me after his firm went up in flames in the 2000 meltdown was the worst. I only put up with PITA smoking hot girls. Guys that are primma donnas or PITAs serve no purpose unless their Dad owns a ski resort or golf course.
(123) fabius,
Really. I thought you were in IT? Now we have to compare notes again.
(126) fabius,
I might as well be POTUS. I’m every bit as qualified as the current occupant.
Republican economic policy is based on two things. Revisionism and Denial.
Uh…I see we’ve stumbled on the over entitled private school thread again…..(runs away in fear of ChiFi’s rath)
I see that right wing Essex left the building and left wing Essex is back.
chi (84)-
Same with Muhlenberg, and a whole slew of other NE small liberal arts skools.
(133) chi fi
I’ll wait for the groupon for Fordham. May mean sending my daughter there when she’s 12, but for 60% off, well …
I went to graduate school with a Dartmouth grad. Walked around telling everyone how many papers he published. Very competitive program back then before the days of “everyone gets a trophy.” One day a retired Philly firemen came up to me and offered me 500 bucks if I smoked this guy.
He failed out 3 months later and myself being the poor blue collar guy with a state degree never saw a B.
F_ck Ivy league. You just cant hang.
131.
Essex,
Shouldnt you be fighting with your boss on which toll booth you are going to occupy this weekend?
Well sir I prefer to think of myself as a southern democrat. So certain internal conflicts come with the territory.
I don’t work on weekends thanks to EZ Pass Al.
I like to make decisions based not on blind partisanship, But rather Heurism.
At my first company out of school a broker dealer where a college degree was not common we had a snot nosed punk fresh out of the fancy pants school who just graduated the management training program and was riding the clerks and long timers in his first management role. Lots of clerks spoke spanish and talked behind his back as he was a WASP. Anyhow SOB knew spanish and wrote everyone up after listening for weeks on end.
So the guy was walking up the side street to WTC one night and the clerks threw him a bag party. For those not familar with a bag party, that is when you come from behind put a big canvas postal bag over your head zip is shut around your knees and push you over. Clerks took turns kicking him them ran off. Dope came to work next day with two black eyes. Funny stuff.
Re# 125
Right. It’s all about the cost efficiency. I call getting several hours in the company of a prominent astrophysicist, a titled British educational expert, a secret service agent, and numerous others well worth a few bucks.
Higher education is a racket. Take a well raised kid at 18 years old and teach him what you know. Teach him about keeping his customers happy and standing behind his work.
You figure 20ok pumped into the toilet for a paper degree based on prestige which is BS for anyone productive in the real world. They have no functional value in the real world. Their livelihoods depend on the BS red tape which is destined to fall apart. The idea that I am an Ivy League grad and now I am part of the politburo will fall apart when they get met in the face with their first fist punched in anger. That metallic taste in your mouth is just the beginning. The spiked bat comes next. 1789 France folks. Thats where we are going.
Show me a teacher that can do this and six figures + wont be long to follow.
Gary,
Reduction or typo?
http://www.njmls.com/listings/index.cfm?action=dsp.info&mlsnum=1134118&dayssince=14&countysearch=false
140. I can think of a couple of folks I’ve worked with over the years where that would work.
142 higher education is trumped as the path for better jobs and useful for careers. I was trained as an engineer and can tell you I use less than 10% of what I was taught and was probably capable of doing the job I do today at 17 without training. The crock of it is senior management knows and uses even less, scary indeed, people are often incredibly ignorant.
JJ, those clerks were really dumb tons of people can understand spanish in the NYC area. When working for someone you don’t respect it is best to shut up and deal with it they won’t be around for long anyway.
From a CNN e-mail alert. Good news from the markets. Clearly, B.O. has things well under control and inspires great confidence. That is the magic of having a Nobel Laureate in the White House. Whit his handling of the U.S. economy, B.O. should be in line for another Nobel, this time in economics:
Stocks plunged at the week’s end as bad news from Europe just kept piling up.
The Dow sank 303 points, or 2.7%, to finish below 11,000. The Nasdaq and S&P 500 each fell more than 2.4%.
A shakeup at the European Central Bank sparked an early selloff, which gained momentum as worries grew about a possible Greek debt default.
Both the Dow and S&P 500 have now posted declines for six of the past seven weeks.
chi (100)-
I do not patronize restaurants whose dominant color theme is orange.
#128 Nom,
There is more to IT than the guy you call to show you were the “Any” key is!
#129 Nom
To succeed i politics you need at least 2 of the 3C’s
Cash, Charisma and Connections
“Take a well raised kid at 18 years old and teach him what you know. Teach him about keeping his customers happy and standing behind his work.”
No wonder Americans really don’t do anymore manufacturing work. Keeping the customer happy? What exactly are you going to teach him do? Give handjobs?
relo [143],
That is no typo, my friend. And we’re talking about a sought after town! When that one sells in the low 500’s, it blows the top off the benchmark, one more time.
You guys should come down to Key West and try Santiago’s Bodega, Great wine and tapas. Try it you’ll like it ;)
Ok, that was overboard… but first teach the kid some skills and work… The work ethic should have already been established by the time the kid is 18. I’d phrase it as do good to the customer (please don’t respond with “… by giving nice handjobs”)
My experience with Indian IT body shop people (probably true with many other ethnic groups and the natives too). The motto of the body shop owner: “Keep the client happy. Do not offend the client. Do not criticize the client. If the client is hanging himself, do not try to stop him. If he dies, find a new client.” Some of those guys are truly deceptively subservient, disloyal pricks that always maintain a smile on their faces.
“Happy” can mean many things. For example, if an already drunk alcoholic is asking for more drinks, who is the right bartender: (a) the one that serves more alcohol to keep the customer happy in the short term, or (b) the one that calls for a cab and discretely gets the guy home?
Ok, that was overboard… but first teach the kid some skills and work… The work ethic should have already been established by the time the kid is 18. I’d phrase it as do good to the customer (please don’t respond with “… by giving nice handjobs”)
My experience with Indian IT body shop people (probably true with many other ethnic groups and the natives too). The motto of the body shop owner: “Keep the client happy. Do not offend the client. Do not criticize the client. If the client is hanging himself, do not try to stop him. If he dies, find a new client.” Some of those guys are truly deceptively subservient, disloyal pr_cks that always maintain a smile on their faces.
“Happy” can mean many things. For example, if an already drunk alcoholic is asking for more drinks, who is the right bartender: (a) the one that serves more alcohol to keep the customer happy in the short term, or (b) the one that calls for a cab and discretely gets the guy home?
“An intelligence bulletin released by U.S. officials Friday warns of a al Qaeda potentially using a vehicle to stage a bombing attack on New York City or Washington, D.C., sometime around the 10th commemoration of Sept. 11, 2001.”
using a vehicle … as opposed to “carrying the stuff on their backs”? Idiocracy, here we come!
Any forecast how long will the security line at EWR Terminal C might take on 9/11? Me flying that day unfortunately…
cobbler says:
September 9, 2011 at 10:14 pm
Any forecast how long will the security line at EWR Terminal C might take on 9/11? Me flying that day unfortunately…
My colleague’s husband works at EWR for Bombardier. No kidding the company policy is to refer to the firm as “Bardier” because they are concerned about alarming the public as they work throughout the grounds.
154. If you ride your unicorn through the gate you should pass over their head in seconds.
Bin Ladin is laughing in his grave knowing he won. His real aim was to get the US to spend it’s way into oblivion, which he accomplished for about $200K in attacking the WTC. FDR would have isolated the problem with internment camps. But then again his primitive philosophy was isolate the enemy among us. The Russian General in the Afghanistan campaign warned that Afghanistan can’t be won unless you are willing to commit genocide. The Ugly American Globalists refused to listen to common sense.
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