(Source GSMLS, except Bergen which is based off NJMLS)
December Pending Home Sales (Contracts)
——————————-
Bergen County
December 2011 – 489
December 2012 – 516 (Up 5.5% YOY)
Essex County
December 2011 – 230
December 2012 – 267 (Up 16.1% YOY)
Hunterdon County
December 2011 – 67
December 2012 – 77 (Up 14.9% YOY)
Morris County
December 2011 – 208
December 2012 – 268 (Up 12.1% YOY)
Passaic County
December 2011 – 150
December 2012 – 205 (Up 36.7% YOY)
Somerset County
December 2011 – 168
December 2012 – 207 (Up 23.2% YOY)
Sussex County
December 2011 – 83
December 2012 – 98 (Up 18.1% YOY)
Union County
December 2011 – 205
December 2012 – 229 (Up 11.7% YOY)
Warren County
December 2011 – 63
December 2012 – 57 (Down 9.5% YOY)
FRIST!
Fristanista!!!!!!!
G-d da*** it almost!!!!
Good Morning New Jersey
fifth!
Good Morning Mike. (Holidays and good cheer are over, Lets start some Sh*t)
Good Morning NJ
The numbers still suck
Contracts Podank NJ 2011 (1 sale),,,,, 2012 (2 sales) up 100% YOY
Wow we are styling now
Post Script
6th and 7th
“My Republican colleagues say that the deficits are a spending problem, not a revenue problem. What these deficit-hawk hypocrites won’t talk about is their spending. They won’t discuss what they did to dig the country into this $1 trillion deep deficit hole. They waged wars in Afghanistan and Iraq without paying for them. They gave away huge tax breaks for the rich. They squandered taxpayer dollars on the pharmaceutical industry by making it illegal to let Medicare bargain for lower drug prices. They also rescinded financial regulations that enabled Wall Street to operate like a gambling casino, leading to a severe recession that eroded tax revenue and left more than 14 percent of American workers unemployed or underemployed.
Now, despite the deficits their policies helped to create and despite the enormous suffering which exists in our society, the Republicans want to cut Social Security, veterans’ programs, Medicare, Medicaid, education, nutrition programs, and virtually every program which benefits low- and moderate-income Americans.”
FAQ about the debt ceiling
http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/10/news/economy/debt-ceiling-faqs/index.html?iid=HP_LN
Brian – yes, we need to protect ourselves FROM the Alex Jones’ of the world, not he from us.
Grim [137, prev thread];
Must be all those rich immigrants with suitcases of money who are buying up the houses. ;-)
OTOH, NJ has lost 1 congressional seat after the 1980 and 1990 and 2010 census (Now 12 from a high of 15).
I love the managers at Allstate and all they do to keep the stock price up in the face of a bunch of damn liberals trying to pull a fast one using Hurricane Sandy as as excuse. They’re keeping these damn settlements low as hell and are not allowing these stinking socialist liberals to game the damn system. Hell, you can’t beat paying a claim of $ 3.74 cents for stuff in a flooded basement!
http://www.longisland.com/news/01-06-13/allstate-check-for-sandy-damages-3774.html
Put a sock in it dammit. You want one of these damn socialist wealth re-distribution schemes don’t you? Listen you Marxist liberal, this damn country was built by a few rich people and if you had any damn sense, you’d want to be one of them. Cut this bleeding heart crap out.
>>>Peace, Love, Dope & Beer says:
January 10, 2013 at 7:38 am
“My Republican colleagues say that the deficits are a spending problem, not a revenue problem. What these deficit-hawk hypocrites won’t talk about is their spending. They won’t discuss what they did to dig the country into this $1 trillion deep deficit hole. They waged wars in Afghanistan and Iraq without paying for them. They gave away huge tax breaks for the rich. They squandered taxpayer dollars on the pharmaceutical industry by making it illegal to let Medicare bargain for lower drug prices. They also rescinded financial regulations that enabled Wall Street to operate like a gambling casino, leading to a severe recession that eroded tax revenue and left more than 14 percent of American workers unemployed or underemployed.
Now, despite the deficits their policies helped to create and despite the enormous suffering which exists in our society, the Republicans want to cut Social Security, veterans’ programs, Medicare, Medicaid, education, nutrition programs, and virtually every program which benefits low- and moderate-income Americans.”<<<<
saw an interesting stat last night…Christie is polling better nationally with Dems than he is with Repubs. Not surprising since he has been publicly ripping his party everyday for weeks but will the party shift with him or will he have to shift with the party to get the nod in 2016?
Here’s the last 26 years or so of Bergen December Contracts (NJMLS) for historical context. I’m not sure I trust the numbers the earlier they go, so take them with a grain of salt. Realistically, there is less variability in the December numbers than most would probably expect. Heck, 2012 is only running about 25% below the best December print ever recorded, 2004. Pretty clear that 2007 and 2008 were the two worst Decembers in quite some time, you really need to go back to 1995 and 1996 to see something similar. 2000 is an interesting case as well, fall out from the dot com bust perhaps, though it seems a touch too early).
1987 – 304
1988 – 287
1989 – 265
1990 – 208
1991 – 429
1992 – 503
1993 – 549
1994 – 524
1995 – 445
1996 – 477
1997 – 529
1998 – 676
1999 – 536
2000 – 480
2001 – 600
2002 – 586
2003 – 667
2004 – 684
2005 – 683
2006 – 628
2007 – 394
2008 – 337
2009 – 545
2010 – 486
2011 – 489
2012 – 516
11 – Not keeping up with the pace of population growth in other states is very different from losing population.
http://lwd.dol.state.nj.us/labor/lpa/dmograph/est/nj1790_2010.pdf
Here is a little discussion about Obamacare that is worth hearing: https://www.youtube.com/embed/rEM4NKXK-iA?feature=player_detailpage
I love how the realtor listed home appearance
School District: Long Beach
Year Built: 1950
Construction: Frame
Lot Size: 40 X 100
Appearance: Sandy
Allstate does not give flood insurance. The article is misleading. As a shareholder whether Allstate pays our 200K or 2 bucks it is the same.
Flood insurance is provided through the national flood insurance progam NFIP. In NYS only a licensed insurance broker can sell insurance. Allstate the broker got paid a commission to sell policy that is it.
What happened is alstate broker put claim in and Fema/NFIP rightly denied it.
My new flood policy states all contents in a basement is not covered. Also all sheetrock on below ground level is not covered. Only thing covered is washer/dryer, furnance, oil tank and main electrical box and existing damaged outlets.
Even stuff like a toliet and sink are not covered.
I have a split so my basement is only two feet underground. My ceiling is only 7 feet. So according to NFIP if I have less than two feet of water I am not covered for anything. If I have four feet NFIP will subract first two feet, then let me cut one foot above flood line as mold spreads. So they will pay me for three feet of sheet rock even though I am replacing 7 feet.
They pay you peanuts in the basement. Given I have a split the den, laundry room and lower bathroom although two feet down is a basement. Part of reason I never had flood insurance is my main level is five feet up. And my house is sloped a bit up from street. I needed six feet of saltwater to hit my main floor. Which we were at seven feet. Even if I had flood insurance 70% of my claim would have been denied.
Splits NFIP denied most of damage. The houses that were capes or ranches with no basements got a lot of payouts. Anyhouse with a walk in basement or a split where basement is only a foot or two down is a good safe bet.
The horror story occured on a few houses over there called Lanai Splits. Kinda a weird split where it has a huge main floor that is on ground level. No steps and then two small levels upstairs. The main level has everything, two bathrooms, kitchen, dens, living room etc. Well over time folks put turf on front lawn, put in grante walkways, put in cement driveways. Etc. Well NFIP told one old couple on block that their main level which took on 6 feet of saltwater is a basement. It is three inches below ground level and said no contents are covered, no kitchen no bathroom no nothing. They got furnance, washer dryer and some sheetrock.
Normally I side with the insurance company or govt but that is petty stuff, around 20 homes over there was denied as main floor was 1-12 inches down.
reinvestor101 says:
January 10, 2013 at 8:21 am
I love the managers at Allstate and all they do to keep the stock price up in the face of a bunch of damn liberals trying to pull a fast one using Hurricane Sandy as as excuse. They’re keeping these damn settlements low as hell and are not allowing these stinking socialist liberals to game the damn system. Hell, you can’t beat paying a claim of $ 3.74 cents for stuff in a flooded basement!
YTD † 26.79%
Chif Fiscal Cliff last day of 2012 heavy bet lots of bluffing and they get it done by market open after new years. YTD 26.79% in 2013
Boy you got catching up to do. You need schooling and I aint fooling
We got debt crisis coming up in 60 days. Men belly up to slop and eat up. Maybe after that time for me and RE 101 to steal some Sandy houses down at beach from widows and orphans and get some illegal mexicans to get them ready to rent by summer.
God I love a Black Swan.
>>>Allstate does not give flood insurance. The article is misleading. As a shareholder whether Allstate pays our 200K or 2 bucks it is the same.
Flood insurance is provided through the national flood insurance progam NFIP. In NYS only a licensed insurance broker can sell insurance. Allstate the broker got paid a commission to sell policy that is it. <<<
WTF? Here you are again trying to explain the damn nuances of flood insurance, but the other damn day, you suggested that someone burn their motherhubbing house down to gouge the damn shareholders/insurance company. Who's damn side are you on; the owners or the damn takers? There is no damn inbetween and if you ain't for the owners, you're an enemy combatant that's against us Choose wisely.
Bottom line if NFIP denies a claim it goes to FEMA who out of same tax dollar pays claim.
todays couple bought and paid for flood insurance. If they had a valid flood claim they should get paid. If it is invalid they should not get paid
Yesterdays couple had no flood insurance. It was homeowners. If roof did blow off first homeowners should pay, if flood did them in they are screwed. In the time period between when roof blew off and flood came in they would have been blessed if house burnt. But since flood took out house and all no way for insurance company to know roof was gone when home washed away as they are screwed.
Todays flood couple should have known items in basement are not covered. I own very little valuables. I dont keep them in attic as tree or hole in roof will ruin it, I dont keep them in the basement as a flood could get them. That is just common sense. The couple storing valuables in a basement was bound to lose them at some point either now or 20 years from now
reinvestor101 says:
January 10, 2013 at 10:13 am
>>>Allstate does not give flood insurance. The article is misleading. As a shareholder whether Allstate pays our 200K or 2 bucks it is the same.
Flood insurance is provided through the national flood insurance progam NFIP. In NYS only a licensed insurance broker can sell insurance. Allstate the broker got paid a commission to sell policy that is it. <<<
WTF? Here you are again trying to explain the damn nuances of flood insurance, but the other damn day, you suggested that someone burn their motherhubbing house down to gouge the damn shareholders/insurance company. Who's damn side are you on; the owners or the damn takers? There is no damn inbetween and if you ain't for the owners, you're an enemy combatant that's against us Choose wisely.
A Hoboken charity is going to divy up $650k in private Sandy relief donations. Each grant will be up to $5k increments, that should help less than 10% of those flooded out of their basement and first floor apartments buy a new sofa and big screen TV. If they are lucky they will have a few bucks left over for a new X-Box.
Date: January 10, 2013
Subject: Americans with No Abilities Act
For Immediate Release
Washington
President Barack Obama and the Democrat controlled Congress is considering sweeping legislation that will provide new benefits for many Americans. The Americans With No Abilities Act. Advocates of the millions of Americans who lack any real skills or ambition are hailing AWNAA as a major legislative goal.
“Roughly 50 percent of Americans do not possess the competence and drive necessary to carve out a meaningful role for themselves in society,” said California Senator Barbara Boxer. “We can no longer stand by and allow People of Inability to be ridiculed and passed over. With this legislation, employers will no longer be able to grant special favors to a small group of workers, simply because they have some idea of what they are doing.”
In a Capitol Hill press conference, House Majority Leader Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid pointed to the success of the U.S. Postal Service, which has a long-standing policy of providing opportunity without regard to performance. Approximately 74 percent of postal employees lack any job skills, making this agency the single largest U. S. employer of Persons of Inability.
Private-sector industries with good records of non-discrimination against the Inept include retail sales (72%), the airline industry (68%), and home improvement ‘warehouse’ stores (65%).
At the state government level, the Department of Motor Vehicles also has an excellent record of hiring Persons of Inability (63%).
Under The Americans With No Abilities Act, more than 25 million “middle man” positions will be created, with important-sounding titles but little real responsibility, thus providing an illusory sense of purpose and performance.
Mandatory non-performance-based raises and promotions will be given so as to guarantee upward mobility for even the most unremarkable employees. The legislation provides substantial tax breaks to corporations that promote a significant number of Persons of Inability into middle-management positions, and gives a tax credit to small and medium-sized businesses that agree to hire one clueless worker for every two talented hires.
Finally, the AWNAA contains tough new measures to make it more difficult to discriminate against the non-abled, banning, for example, discriminatory interview questions such as, “Do you have any skills or experience that relate to this job?”
“As a Non-abled person, I can’t be expected to keep up with people who have something going for them,” said Mary Lou Gertz, who lost her position as a lug-nut twister at the GM plant in Flint, Michigan, due to her inability to remember “righty tightey, lefty loosey.” “This new law should be real good for people like me,’ Gertz added. With the passage of this bill, Gertz and millions of other untalented citizens will finally see a light at the end of the tunnel.
Said Senator Dick Durbin (D-IL): “As a Senator with no abilities, I believe the same privileges that elected officials enjoy ought to be extended to every American with no abilities. It is our duty as lawmakers to provide each and every American citizen, regardless of his or her inadequacy, with some sort of space to take up in this great nation and a good salary for doing nothing.”
And the left said this wouldn’t happen. Quel Surprise!
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-exchange/fast-food-chains-cut-worker-hours-blame-obamacare-224911846.html
From my perspective, owners that go public with this are (1) doing themselves a disservice on many levels, and (2) represent a tiny fraction of businesses that are taking steps to head off the effects of Obamacare. In fact, I posit that most owners know that the only reason for making a statement (other than to let employees know or in public filings) is political, and that it runs contrary to business sense.
My totally unscientific, off-the-cuff, spitball of an estimate is that for every owner/company that cuts hours or headcount due to Obamacare that you hear about on the news, there are 20-25 taking similar steps that you don’t hear about.
I tell my clients to say only that which you legally need to say and nothing more. And no, I am not telling you who there are.
[17] mike
This just in . . . .
BREAKING NEWS: Obama has stepped in and decided that Alabama got too many points in Monday’s BCS championship game and has redistributed some of those points to Notre Dame resulting in a tie in the game and a tie for the national championship. When asked for a comment, Obama said, “Alabama obviously got more than their fair share. They didn’t win that all by themselves! What does one team need all those points for”?
[26] redux
er, should have been reply to [24] Juice. Sorry, Mike
[24] juice,
Seems that the Act is a retread holdover from Clinton:
http://www.cartalk.com/content/congress-passes-americans-no-abilities-act
I flood out one of those small basement apts once after a night with a bridge and tunnel hose monsters
Juice Box says:
January 10, 2013 at 10:31 am
A Hoboken charity is going to divy up $650k in private Sandy relief donations. Each grant will be up to $5k increments, that should help less than 10% of those flooded out of their basement and first floor apartments buy a new sofa and big screen TV. If they are lucky they will have a few bucks left over for a new X-Box.
Nom,
Companies that do not offer insurance in the first place were always expected to downsize or convert workers to temp or part time to avoid paying $2000 penalty. Question is how long can they keep training new workers. Will this be more cost effective than hiring full time and pay the penalty? As the business demand grow can they keep it at this level and sacrifice customer dissatisfaction?
24 –
Nice. What’s your source, the onion?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/satire/noabilities.asp
http://www.theonion.com/articles/congress-passes-americans-with-no-abilities-act,541/
Brian [31];
If it wasn’t plausible, it wouldn’t be funny. And it is funny.
Lighten up, Francis.
24 –
Juice I am forwarding that to my uncle (huge tea party guy). I love messing with him. He’s going to flip.
Nom,
Actually this is good for the unemployment if full time workers hours being cut is given to unemployed worker that cant find a job. Shared work hours is what kept Germanys unemployment numbers low. Difference is Germany paid the difference in hours which the US will too via unemployment insurance.
[30] yome,
That will be the learning curve, I guess. Factor in also the added cost per employee for normal overhead and that will be a disincentive.
Another option to going small is going large. Have fewer employees, give them benefits (or pay the penalty) and pay overtime. Traditionally, this was how businesses avoided the added cost per employee conundrum; it was actually cheaper to pay the overtime than to pay benefits. Another is to lease out to an affiliate but I suspect (haven’t looked yet) that PPACA requires combined reporting.
Historical yet timely quote of the day:
“The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions”
― Daniel Webster
[34] yome,
I considered that and wondered if it wasn’t an intended “design flaw” of the legislation.
[31] brian,
You mean to say you actually thought Juice was parroting supposed legislation?
FWIW, that’s the third version of this that I have seen, including the Clinton era version.
38 –
When they quoted Dick Durban it didn’t seem that far fetched….
Huge boom in outsourcing options for small businesses is coming.
Need to stay under the 50 cap?
Outsource HR, Payroll, Accounting, Billing, Collections, Facilities, Maintenance, IT Support, Procurement, Complaince, Legal, etc.
Nom [35];
I could easily see every 50-150 employee business subdividing and ‘contracting out’ certain tasks to a captive enterprise.
Suppose the law firm of Comrade & Associates, PC had 20 professional staff and 40 administrative staff. Obamacare comes knocking. So the PC decides to outsource its administrative requirements to a new entity, DePlume Administrative Solutions. C&A, PC lays off 40 administrators; DPAS hires the newly available workers. Both entities are under the 50-employee threshold.
I can see applications to manufacturing, sales, R&D.
33 – the tea party? i kinda remember them…punk band that wore party dresses on stage right?
Grim [39];
You just beat me to it.
Grim – outsourcing is job creation. However those jobs many not be on US shores.
[44] moose,
won’t work. I recall now that there is a rule and it is particularly onerous. So onerous in fact that I don’t think it makes an exception for separate LOBs. So if Father and Son each have separate businesses, doing different things, and no co-ownership, attribution rules could lump them together for purposes of the 50 count.
Only things that will work are outsourcing and keeping everyone under 30 hours.
[39] brian,
For me, when they quoted Pelosi, it wasn’t that far-fetched.
Brian, Juice,
One thing I will look at in the future, if applicable, is how best to get people onto disability. Did you notice that when UE benefits started to end in various areas, disability claims skyrocketed?
I may pre-emptively have my kids declared disabled so that they qualify for benefits when they reach the age of majority. These days, nearly anything can be a disability, so why not take advantage? I’m going to look into it.
And if my practice doesn’t take off, or I decide to “retire” early, why not have myself declared disabled? I am sure that I can get Dope and Schabadoo to attest to my diminished mental capacity. I sure hope one of them is a doctor.
From Daily Kos on the Wendy’s hours-cutback decision:
“Chances are this greedy franchisee will get quite a bit of blowback and lost business. I can’t say it’s not well deserved.”
Well, that will solve the problem of too many employees working too many hours, now won’t it?
Has anyone else heard grumblings from IT contractors transitioning to per-diem once their contracts were up (I’m not talking about food and expenses, I’m talking about literal day to day employment with no contract). Talked to one guy that mentioned this to me, and I thought it was very odd. Literally, contract work with no guarantees that your job will be there tomorrow. I’d ask if this was even legal, but I know a guy who works in IT infrastructure for one of the big TV networks in NYC (pulling and terminating fiber) and is per-diem. That case is a little bit different since his crew is looked at as construction. Are Per-Diems and Temps even considered employees?
Gary – If you thought the transition to contract was bad news, this sounds fantastic.
You folks remember that white collar day laborer video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XGJq8wrw5I
The real ticket is to have a cash-paying gig, then file for disability.
We are approaching a point at which the most gainful thing a private citizen can do is snooker the gubmint.
51 – right now it is snookering conservatives
49 By the way where is Gary?
The rate layoffs are going and things are getting automated soon I will be like Desmond on that TV show lost. Last guy left and my job is to push the button.
Nice – guy gets notice from bank they are foreclosing and he leaves, then bank does not pull trigger and guy does not know until later he still owns home and place has been looted…
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/10/us-usa-foreclosures-zombies-idUSBRE9090G920130110
55 – No such thing as a zombie title, makes for a nice headline, but the homeowner is responsible up until the sheriff sale, or, if the bank agrees to a deed-in-lieu.
He abandoned the house while he was still responsible for all of the ancillary items he now claims are plaguing him.
The responsibility was his and his alone. Not only did he stiff the bank, he stiffed the sewerage authority, the water company, the municipality (and his neighbors, as he had an obligation to pay taxes), etc.
56 – article said guy got a notice of foreclosure judgement from bank – does this not imply the court already swung the gavel and the bank officially took over the home?
Who knows if he didn’t do the damage himself when moving out. You know, easy to let a sink run over, kick a few doors while moving the bed, break some cabinets, leave the door unlocked to an obviously vacant home. Maybe he came back a day later to strip the copper and scrap it, you know, to “stick it to the bank”.
Even lefty NY Times editorialist essentially admits that the People Without Abilities Act is already embedded in the welfare system. The government is encouraging human puppy-mills:
THIS is what poverty sometimes looks like in America: parents here in Appalachian hill country pulling their children out of literacy classes. Moms and dads fear that if kids learn to read, they are less likely to qualify for a monthly check for having an intellectual disability.
Many people in hillside mobile homes here are poor and desperate, and a $698 monthly check per child from the Supplemental Security Income program goes a long way — and those checks continue until the child turns 18.
“The kids get taken out of the program because the parents are going to lose the check,” said Billie Oaks, who runs a literacy program here in Breathitt County, a poor part of Kentucky. “It’s heartbreaking.”
This is painful for a liberal to admit, but conservatives have a point when they suggest that America’s safety net can sometimes entangle people in a soul-crushing dependency. Our poverty programs do rescue many people, but other times they backfire.
Some young people here don’t join the military (a traditional escape route for poor, rural Americans) because it’s easier to rely on food stamps and disability payments.
Antipoverty programs also discourage marriage: In a means-tested program like S.S.I., a woman raising a child may receive a bigger check if she refrains from marrying that hard-working guy she likes. Yet marriage is one of the best forces to blunt poverty. In married couple households only one child in 10 grows up in poverty, while almost half do in single-mother households.
Most wrenching of all are the parents who think it’s best if a child stays illiterate, because then the family may be able to claim a disability check each month.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/opinion/sunday/kristof-profiting-from-a-childs-illiteracy.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&ref=opinion&pagewanted=all&
57 – He received a notice of sale, which is required by law in a number of states to let the owner know where and when the sale will take place. His argument was that he assumed the sale would take place on that date, and the he didn’t receive correspondence from his lender stating the sale was cancelled or rescheduled.
The fact of the matter is, the responsibility is still his until the deed changes hands.
30Yr could chime in here, but I believe in many judicial states, the owner doesn’t need to move out until the Sheriff provides a writ of possession (eviction).
The new mode of competition in America:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyRHAvfA6Eg
Nomad [55];
Agree that the only mistake that guy made was leaving without being forcibly dragged from the house — and that’s just what he got punished for. In the new Amerika, integrity is dangerous and must be crushed at every turn.
He could have been living it up payment-free for over five years. Sucker.
62 – It’s irrelevant, the fact of the matter is that the house is his responsibility as long as his name is on the deed. Are you telling me he couldn’t be bothered to check the paper to see if the sale took place or had been rescheduled?
Can you imagine the uproar if we ever get into a position where we start actually considering treating real estate with title theory as opposed to lien theory (treating houses like cars, where the bank holds title until you pay of the loan)?
Chase wouldn’t need to send the Sheriff, they can send the repo man to kick you out on your ass and take the house.
Inherent in this argument is the assumption that the bank will foreclose, which is based on an even more basic assumption that every property has a positive value. This property is clearly devoid of any value and is a liability strongly in the red. Why on earth would the bank foreclose? Shame on him for thinking the bank would rescue him from his bad decision. A lender does not need to foreclose.
I’ll point out a third errant assumption, and it is that foreclosure is a problem. Foreclosure is not a problem at all, it’s a solution, a means of resolution. I don’t need to know this guy to know what he was thinking in foreclosure, it went something like, ‘F&ck them, f*ck the banks, nothing but a bunch of f*king assh&les.” When instead, maybe his attitude should have been closer to, “Thank you for your generosity in foreclosing on my property and giving me, the borrower, a mechanism for getting out of this debt that I can no longer afford to service.”
Find it amazing that the media could simultaneously call foreclosure a problem, a crisis, and at the same time, call the lack of foreclosure a problem, a crisis.
Which is it?
Sh1t I’m going to call my bank and ask them to foreclose on me.
re: #59 – The New York Times doesn’t need to go to Appalachia to find examples of illiterate underachievers. There are over a million examples right here in our own back yard. The reporter does not even need to take a cab, a short walk from the Times building brings you to several developments were there are countless examples.
Tard gave us Bebo from Jersey City a few months back as our very own example. One of many who now grow up part of generational spanning illiteracy. His own family dismissed opportunity to better their child. We even tracked a grown up Bebo down. He is a a real hustler wanna be DJ these days from what we can tell.
Libtard in Union says:
June 26, 2012 at 11:15 am
“I used to rent a brownstone in Jersey City in the mid 90s. The family next door was section 8. Every day, when I left for work, their youngest kid (had to be 3 or four) was out on the stoop causing havoc. His name was Bebo. The kid really only new three words of english. They were, “Have a quarter?” He also called our piano “a pinano”. We actually dubbed our apartment the Pinano Republic. Well I asked his folks why Bebo wasn’t in the free full-day head start program. They even pick the kids up and drop them off right at the door. Both parents didn’t work so it really was a no-brainer. What he said to me was shocking. He said, “I didn’t graduate and look how well I’m doing.” That was the first time in my life that I realized why throwing money at urban kids or families was a problem. At the time, the attendance rate at the main JC high school (Dickerson?) was under 60%. No amount of money was going to change things there. I moved out a couple of years later when Bebo burned his house down playing with matches and ignited his mattress. When I asked the family if they’d be OK, they said, “We’re getting a brand new apartment!” Sure enough, I drove by about a year later and Bebo was back out on the porch of their beautifully remodeled apartment. The moral of the story here is that handouts never ever work with able-bodied potential workers. Now if you want to compensate low paid workers through workfare, I’m absolutely for it. Those people will be paying taxes and contributing to society (albeit flipping my burger). But to give someone a home and a salary for breathing? All you are doing is exacerbating the problem.”
Everybody but the homeowner in that scenario lived up to their responsibilities and commitments.
The bank, the sewerage authority, the water company, probably the electric company, the gas company, the town/municipality, the courts, etc. Everybody did what they were obligated (legally, morally, or otherwise) to do, BUT the homeowner. The gas company made the gas available, the town still continued to pick up the garbage and operate city hall, the police, the fire, whatever.
But the “victim” here, he just said “f*ck everybody” and abandoned the house, and the rest of his responsibilities. F*ck you town, f*ck you neighbors, f*ck you police, f*ck you bank.
Who cares? This is America, f*ck you responsibility. Right?
Back in the mid 80’s when I received my NJ RE license, I believe I was taught in RE school that it works that way in PA. Is that still the case?
Can you imagine the uproar if we ever get into a position where we start actually considering treating real estate with title theory as opposed to lien theory (treating houses like cars, where the bank holds title until you pay of the loan)?
PA is Lien Theory, but there are plenty of states that are title theory, they also tend to be the states that are non-judicial foreclosure.
Texas for example. Default to eviction? 2 months.
They don’t have a foreclosure inventory problem there.
I agree foreclosures and resale at whatever market price IS the solution. But how is the lender foreclosing on someone’s house that has negative value a help to the borrower? If he can’t afford to service the loan and currently is not, and the bank won’t foreclose because the loan is worth sh*t… the person gets to live for free.
63.grim says:
January 10, 2013 at 2:04 pm
Inherent in this argument is the assumption that the bank will foreclose, which is based on an even more basic assumption that every property has a positive value. This property is clearly devoid of any value and is a liability strongly in the red. Why on earth would the bank foreclose? Shame on him for thinking the bank would rescue him from his bad decision. A lender does not need to foreclose.
I’ll point out a third errant assumption, and it is that foreclosure is a problem. Foreclosure is not a problem at all, it’s a solution, a means of resolution. I don’t need to know this guy to know what he was thinking in foreclosure, it went something like, ‘F&ck them, f*ck the banks, nothing but a bunch of f*king assh&les.” When instead, maybe his attitude should have been closer to, “Thank you for your generosity in foreclosing on my property and giving me, the borrower, a mechanism for getting out of this debt that I can no longer afford to service.”
Find it amazing that the media could simultaneously call foreclosure a problem, a crisis, and at the same time, call the lack of foreclosure a problem, a crisis.
Which is it?
ragnar [59]
And neither liberals nor conservatives (for opposite reasons, though) accept the idea that we need to get rid of most if not all means-tested benefits altogether. Liberals think the poor somehow are more virtuous and deserve more, conservatives don’t accept that the universal benefit package (single payer low-copay healthcare and baseline income support for all adults) has to be created instead of Medicaid/SNAP/AFDC/Section 8, etc., lest we turn into Guatemala.
70
cobbler
Was the US similar to Guatemala a couple generations ago before Medicaid/SNAP/AFDC/Section 8, etc., ?
Title Theory vs. Lien Theory map:
http://title.grabois.com/
No sale, no title, no eviction…you still own it. Eventually the house ends up being foreclosed for municipal liens.
Just like a mortgage foreclosure there is only one way to enforce those liens and fines, foreclose. Can’t realistically envision any judge throwing anyone in jail for maintenance issues on a vacant property.
It is a miracle! I finally agree with Moose about something. #62, the guy was a sucker!
re: # 63 – Grim stupid media. Even if this guy was a candidate for a liver transplant, he is not Steve Jobs and most likely cannot buy the LIVE one he needs. You heard that right he needs a LIVE donor.
#66
Is that any different from jingle mail or deed in lieu? After notifying the lender you just packmyour bags. No?
Grim –
I haven’t heard of per diem workers, but every contract worker (in business) knows that the “contract” is BS and totally meaningless. Contracts say that the contract worker has to give notice (usually 2 weeks) if they want to leave, but the employer can get rid of the contract worker at a moments notice (without any reason).
The end date of contracts means just that either you leave then (if you’re still there), they renew you, or you just continue working without a contract and pray that they keep paying you. This last happens quite a bit and could be viewed as a “per diem” worker.
My husband did say that he’s seeing more contract jobs out there this past month, but not full-time jobs. Contract jobs are usually for 3 to 6 months. It’s like a game of musical chairs with all the contract jobs in big pharma.
joyce [71]
To a certain extent, yes – if you consider the sharecroppers of the South, tenement housing in the cities, company stores, mansions of Newport, etc.
With the wealth the society has – unless we continue to entice the people to stay “poor” as we are doing now by offering an extremely lopsided benefit package – the outlay needed to keep everyone from being malnourished or dieing in the ditch is pretty small.
And they said Californias finances are in the hole
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-10/california-to-post-851-million-budget-surplus-brown-projects.html
We’re enticing them to say poor. I agree, but I would phrase it as making them dependent as to control them.
We’re offering them a lopsided benefits package. What does that mean? What makes anyone deserving of some other individual’s property? And what is lop-sided?
The outlay … is small. Yes, I agree. That’s what we’re doing now, no?
77.cobbler says:
January 10, 2013 at 2:47 pm
joyce [71]
To a certain extent, yes – if you consider the sharecroppers of the South, tenement housing in the cities, company stores, mansions of Newport, etc.
With the wealth the society has – unless we continue to entice the people to stay “poor” as we are doing now by offering an extremely lopsided benefit package – the outlay needed to keep everyone from being malnourished or dieing in the ditch is pretty small.
juice [74]
You will be disappointed, but:
In a typical adult recipient LDLT, 55 to 70% of the liver (the right lobe) is removed from a healthy living donor. The donor’s liver will regenerate approaching 100% function within 4–6 weeks, and will almost reach full volumetric size with recapitulation of the normal structure soon thereafter. It may be possible to remove up to 70% of the liver from a healthy living donor without harm in most cases. The transplanted portion will reach full function and the appropriate size in the recipient as well, although it will take longer than for the donor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver_transplantation
say=stay
re:80
starfish style, huh? I learned something today.
It appears that Pennsylvania was a title theory state until challenged in the courts in several cases in the early 90’s and lien theory since then.
https://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/5/5.F3d.34.92-7652.html
In the case here, the district court held that the banks would prevail even if the mortgages were considered to be security interests rather than transfers of title. See In re Century Inv. Fund VIII Ltd. Partnership, 937 F.2d 371, 375 (7th Cir.1991). We need not determine that issue because the facts and prevailing Pennsylvania law establish that the banks had the right to enter the property, constructively as well as actually, and to collect the rents. We find no indication that Pennsylvania has veered from its longstanding title theory to one treating mortgages as security interests.
joyce [79]
I said “poor”, not poor… There is a lot of data showing that a single mother with 2 kids has much better living makes much better living off all the benefits than if she’d been working and making say 30K (which is actually what the schoolteacher frequently makes in the heartland). The goal of the universal package should be, first, to keep you alive even if you are a total bum, and second, to make sure your life gets better with every extra dollar you earn.
84
cobbler,
Do you see any problem at all with taking something from one individual and giving it to another when that person is a total bum?
If I hear you correctly, every single individual would be given this universale package and with every dollar they earn good for them. Meaning a billionaire would receive it? After paying 50+% in taxes though, right?
Poor Bebo!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ_BnGNUM40
Actually we are just enticing them to work off the books. There are lots of off the books jobs, if I had free medical, free lunch program, tax credits, free tuition for college for kids, free food stamps etc and I took a lousy 20K a year job and lose them all why would I do it.
Tons of contractors near me have ladies who take their calls, do their bookkeeping etc off the books, or do a commission job off the books. Heck my drycleaner near me actually pays out of the register at weekend his girls. I could sell cars out of my driveway, drive a cab, drive a limo. All sorts of things. Heck with my contractor job he wanted all cash. He said issue was he dont mind taking a check, but his workers, folks he buys off, the plumber he bought in etc. All want cash only. Even the places he buys stuff dont want to pay sales tax. If I gave him check he would have to go to bank and then make cash which is a pain.
I am sure 99% of those folks are getting some type of aid.
joyce says:
January 10, 2013 at 2:53 pm
We’re enticing them to say poor. I agree, but I would phrase it as making them dependent as to control them.
We’re offering them a lopsided benefits package. What does that mean? What makes anyone deserving of some other individual’s property? And what is lop-sided?
joyce [86]
Yes, I see the problem. However, as a society, we are unwilling to just let the bums die – and I don’t see why it is better – assuming we decide to stop giving them food stamps/housing – to have them fed and housed by say Salvation Army (whose people stand at the Sears entrance ringing bells and trying to shame you into giving), rather than to spend maybe less resources on just giving them $500 a month per person, the same as to you or your billionaire, to spend on a bunk in a flophouse, or canned beans, or Fleichmann’s vodka if they choose so. Again, the system should promote work, discourage having children for whom one can’t provide (cash benefit should only go to the adults) and at the same time not allow the extreme poverty.
joyce, got my yearly bonus today. Uncle Sam immediately took a a quarter, state took their cut, SS, UI, 401K. ended up with 55% of the original total if you include 401K amount. So out of the kindness of my heart I’m glad they took money from my families mouths so the they can remain idle and not have to work. Sure the trade off is living in squalor bu they don’t seem to care long as those chedcks keep rolling in.
89
cobbler,
I really do not like the expression, “as a society” or “society has values” etc etc. Society does not have values. Individuals have value. Yes, private charities receiving voluntary donations would be a MUCH better system.
How can you in one breadth say we need to promote work but also pay people for not working?
You have to get out of your mind the idea that these programs are there to help people or lift them out of their current situation… they are there to build dependence.
#90
Got a quarter?
joyce [91]
Charities provide way too much aid to the boldest and most resourceful gimme people, and totally miss others – those too embarassed to ask. There are many things non-profits can do very well, but providing the baseline support is not one of them.
As for promoting work – the system where you absolutely can’t be better off being idle compared to working (opposite to what we have now) – is a big step forward.
Universal benefit doesn’t pay people FOR not working, it is just part of being a citizen -like having a lifeguard even at the free beach.
Grim [63];
Somewhat out of order:
Amen, brother Grim! I’ve been singing from that page of the hymnal for years.
Truth be told, I’m with you here, too. I also think that the current level of protections between the recalitrant deadbeat and the house repo man are far too generous.
I don’t presume taht the property has positive value v. the balance owed (unpaid principal + fees, etc.). I do presume that the bank is better off recovering something from foreclosing than nothing. That’s a shaky presumption, prehaps, considering the banks don’t really need the money to be recovered from foreclosure sale so long as the Fed continues to print and TARP bailouts are available on demand.
TARP aside, whether to foreclose is a bit of a black art, as ripping the band aid off and taking a sure loss today is compared to the possibilty that the borrower will rehabilitate the loan in full or in part, and the real costs involved in foreclosing (this is where ‘thumb in your eye’ deadbeats and ‘PRODUCE THE NOTE, M’Fer!’ play a role too — as a litigator may tell his client, you opponenet gets a vote on how much the bill is too — and the recalitrant deadbeat uasually has nothing to lose by playing scorced earth).
Still, I think that the homeowner in this case, as a layperson, can make a reasonable argument that he relied upon the papers that were served on him, and acted as if the bank, the Sherrif, etc., would actually do what they said they were going to do — conduct a sale of some sort, and transfer ownership of the proerty to someone else. Sure, he ‘abandoned’ the property, but isn’t that what people are supposed to do when they are stripped of their owership rights?
He didn’t need the bank to do that, he could have always filed BK to the same effect. Point in fact, had the bank followed through on the FK, they likely would have sold off the defecit to some third party collector at 5% of face value, who would have thence hounded him for eternity. Hell, they still might.
cobbler [94];
Charities provide way too much aid to the boldest and most resourceful gimme people, and totally miss others – those too embarassed to ask.
Just like government programs reward those who know how to work the system, knowledge often passed from generation to generation, and have the free time not working to stand in line to do so.
The beach isn’t free; it’s just paid for by… wait for it… someone else.
cobbler says:
January 10, 2013 at 4:58 pm
joyce [91]
Charities provide way too much aid to the boldest and most resourceful gimme people, and totally miss others – those too embarassed to ask. There are many things non-profits can do very well, but providing the baseline support is not one of them.
As for promoting work – the system where you absolutely can’t be better off being idle compared to working (opposite to what we have now) – is a big step forward.
Universal benefit doesn’t pay people FOR not working, it is just part of being a citizen -like having a lifeguard even at the free beach.
Okay so I work in healthcare and I can tell you that the pressure in my office to do more and more is overwhelming. Dare I say it has something to do with the new healthcare mandates? And I too am finally getting to resent that the more I kill myself at my humble little job the less $$ I get and the more exhausted I am. It’s a constant rush to see more and more patients and I am concerned about the quality of care going down. I work for excellent physicians but everyone has their breaking point.
I’m willing to let the bums die. A lot of them seem to do everything in their power to hasten it.
Other individuals can take care of them if they like.
But I’m neither a conservative nor a liberal.
SS is only witheld on first 106K and the 401K is paying yourself.
Painhrtz – Not like you can dust for vomit says:
January 10, 2013 at 4:02 pm
joyce, got my yearly bonus today. Uncle Sam immediately took a a quarter, state took their cut, SS, UI, 401K. ended up with 55% of the original total if you include 401K amount. So out of the kindness of my heart I’m glad they took money from my families mouths so the they can remain idle and not have to work. Sure the trade off is living in squalor bu they don’t seem to care long as those chedcks keep rolling in.
grim (63)-
In trust deed states, like California, this is a reality (although deeds are actually held by a third party intermediary).
“Can you imagine the uproar if we ever get into a position where we start actually considering treating real estate with title theory as opposed to lien theory (treating houses like cars, where the bank holds title until you pay of the loan)?”
We are all Bebo now.
I know a guy in Deal who can score you a live liver anytime you want.
Ernest Money says:
January 10, 2013 at 6:14 pm
We are all Bebo now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUrT0M_XGZE
#103 Clot
Is it Kosher?
The beach is an interesting analogy as “who owns it?”
Its like the Alaskan oil money. Why should the state of Alaska send a check to Alaskans only for selling the land rights of America. Surely the land belongs to all Americans so why do only a few benefit.
#100 JJ
And as it is the start of the year the bigger pay check means you will hit the SS and 401K limit earlier in the year, so your paychecks at the end of the year will be bigger.
joyce [97]
Public goods include a lot of things that we involuntarily pay for (and those not paying taxes don’t) and which we didn’t ask for or like: besides the beach (which I guess is OK with most people) there are e.g. traffic lights extending our commute to work. Assuming our time’s value is proportional to the incomes, not only does someone making $1 Mln pay much more of the traffic light installation and maintenance costs than someone making $20K, but the value of his time wasted due to the said light is 50x as well… is it fair?
Ragnar says:
January 10, 2013 at 5:39 pm
I’m willing to let the bums die. A lot of them seem to do everything in their power to hasten it.
Other individuals can take care of them if they like.
Are you willing to let them die of starvation and dysentery on the front lawn of your house? Or even in the street in front of your house?
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Of course its not fair, cobbler. That’s the whole point.
#34 yome
Germany does not have overtime. The labor laws are such that if you need the extra hours worked, hire another worker. If overtime is worked it is not paid, the worker has to talk the hours off as vacation.
#40 Moose
The likelihood is that “Moose and associates LLC” will already have a health plan in place, so it is a moot point. I think after salary, it is the most important aspect of middle income employment. There are a lot of greeters in WMart that spend their full paycheck and more on the healthcare plan.
I think Wendy’s guy will be sending out a retraction tomorrow saying he was misquoted. I don’t think Corporate franchising will take kindly to him tarnishing the brand. It will be full reverse or you lose the franchise. Papa John also reversed. although he had to face the reality of justifying the pain of the $6mil healthcare cost against the $20mil in free pizza he and Eli just gave away. Looking at the sales backlash, he reversed the ship.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/11/21/papa-johns-schnatter-says-he-will-honor-obamacare-and-give-health-insurance-to-all-employees/
Overall nothing changes here. Anything with a corporate logo, either provides healthcare anyway or has already outsourced. All the big box companies have outsourced distribution to non-descript companies for years so this problem will still stay hidden were it always has, right up there with the undocumented workers.
Its funny when talking to people about this, my right wing friends inevitably bring up how this great country is dying and how can we get back to the days of greatness. These days I have a simple answer “Go back to the days when the employers took pride in the benefits they provided their workers. That is where it is dying” There is an owner I know who’s business had been limping on for a few years. It was breaking even, but he kept going because he didn’t want to shut up shop and put the workers out to fend in this economy. He was in Moonachie and then Sandy hit. The offices were destroyed. He could have walked away then, but he decided to pick another town and reopen. He hasn’t let a single person go as they have been like family to them. That is the greatness of America and it is dying off.
115
I love how the world began with these problems; they weren’t caused by anything right? The f-ing tax code in the past, along with govt price controls, and current tax code is the reason some benefits are tied to employment.
The government granted monopolies, among many other regulatory and statutory distortions, are the reason for the unyielding rise in health care costs (along with FED inflationary monetary policies).
But don’t let any of that enter your mind when thinking of the subject… wouldn’t want to hurt your brain.
I think they used leeches back in those days. Is that the base plan you feel should be available to all?
It’s tied to employment as it is to expensive to do it outside your employer. The cheapest plan I found for for a family of 4 in NJ is about $850. Thats a high deductible plan that has everything as a copay.
119
A fine understanding of history you have (not)
Cobbler,
I’d call the police in either case.
Chi,
Any objective comments?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/09/fracking-big-gas-university-research
“The organization Campus Progress reports that many universities see fracking as an opportunity to make up for budget cuts that have left the schools chronically strapped for cash. Drilling on campus gives a whole new meaning to “frackademia”, a term coined to underscore the cozy ties between Big Gas and institutions of higher learning.”
Ragnar – do I understand correctly that neither you nor your family members are to be distraught, and will forget about this episode the next day?
Fab;
[106]
No, the land doesn’t belong to “All Americans”. Sovereignty begins in the states, and property rights with the people. But thanks for displaying confirmation of your collectivist worldview for us.
Re [114]:
You can just assume the can opener all you want, but you’ll still starve on the desert island with nothing but canned food to eat.
Such as what? Totally plausible…..but anything written in the UK about a US domestic issue can be summarily ignored…….
Fabius Maximus says:
January 10, 2013 at 10:25 pm
Chi, Any objective comments?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/09/fracking-big-gas-university-research “The organization Campus Progress reports that many universities see fracking as an opportunity to make up for budget cuts that have left the schools chronically strapped for cash. Drilling on campus gives a whole new meaning to “frackademia”, a term coined to underscore the cozy ties between Big Gas and institutions of higher learning.”
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