From Housingwire:
New York doubling down in fight against zombie foreclosures
The State of New York doubling down in its efforts to fight back against the rising tide of zombie properties, which are homes that are vacant or abandoned during the foreclosure process.
New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman announced on Monday that he plans to resubmit an expanded version of a bill he first introduced in 2014 to the state legislature. Schneiderman’s bill, called the Abandoned Property Neighborhood Relief Act, is designed to reduce the number of zombie homes by informing homeowners of their right to stay in their home until a court orders them to leave.
According to Schneiderman’s office, the bill will also require mortgage lenders and servicers to identify, secure and maintain vacant and abandoned properties shortly after they are abandoned. Under current state law, lenders and servicers aren’t required to secure and maintain vacant properties until the end of the foreclosure process.
The bill would also create a statewide registry of zombie properties, designed to help local governments with the enforcement of property maintenance laws.
Additionally, if Schneiderman’s bill becomes law, any fines levied against banks, lenders or servicers for violations of the state’s abandoned property laws would be directed into a fund, which would be used by local governments to hire additional code enforcement officers.
“Leaving zombie properties to rot is unfair to municipalities and unfair to neighbors, who pay their taxes and maintain their homes. In the next two weeks, my office will resubmit to the Legislature our bill that would require banks to take responsibility for maintaining properties much earlier in the foreclosure process, take that burden off of towns and cities, and allow local governments to more easily identify the mortgagees of these properties to make sure they maintain them,” Schneiderman said.
“And as my office enforces the requirement that banks take responsibility for these properties, any fines we levy will go into a fund to help towns and cities hire more code enforcement officers.”
Schneiderman cited the drastic increase of zombie properties in New York in 2014 as one of the main reasons for putting the legislature forward now.
Good Morning New Jersey
Zombies are zombies because they are worthless.
By the way, in every single Lien Theory state, I don’t believe there is anything stopping a lender from walking away from a property abandoned by the owner.
If the carrying costs, insurance, taxes, maintenance costs, and repair costs are greater than the return on selling the property, a lender could drop their lien on the property and simply walk away.
What legal authority does the state have to go after a lien holder? I don’t believe any.
Might be different if the mortgage lender was the owner in name, as in a title theory state.
NY and NJ are lien theory states. Banks can charge off the mortgages and walk away just like the previous owners did. This happens every single day. Let’s call this Detroitification – since that’s where this happens the most.
You know who then becomes liable for fees, taxes, and penalties? The owner, the name on the deed, regardless of if they walked away or not. Good luck with that Schneiderman. Can’t wait to see you dragging busloads of poor people into the courthouse trying to collect.
These laws will have unintended consequences and will hit the poor communities the hardest.
By the way, I still have not heard of a single abandoned property being fast tracked to sheriff sale by the expedited foreclosure law passed 2 years ago.
Not one, not a single one, please someone prove me wrong.
From the Record:
Business tax rebates go unpaid by New Jersey
As the state pours billions of dollars in business tax breaks into programs aimed at strengthening New Jersey’s struggling economy, it has put the brakes on another incentive program, leaving hundreds of companies without promised payments that could total in the hundreds of millions of dollars.
Seeking to balance the state budget over the last few years, the Christie administration and the Legislature have each slashed funding for the Business Employment Incentive Program, commonly referred to as BEIP, eliminating payments to companies that were promised annual income tax rebate checks in return for moving to New Jersey or expanding here.
The affected businesses range from HighRoad Press — a small printing company that was promised $345,000 over 10 years for its move from Manhattan to Moonachie — to retail giant Bed Bath & Beyond, which is owed $2.8 million for creating jobs in 2012 and 2013. Paying out the money from these awards — estimated at $650 million according to one state estimate — would seem out of reach without an unexpected massive boost in state revenues. The state stopped awarding new grants under the program in 2013.
…
“When you give somebody something and you take it away, that sends a bad message,” said Tom Bracken, president of the New Jersey Chamber of Commerce. That’s especially true when it affects business owners who often feel that Trenton politicians don’t understand the pressures and difficulties of running a company, he said.
…
Hallie Satz owns one of the businesses affected. She is chief executive of HighRoad Press, which received a $345,000 grant award in 2013, payable over 10 years, to move to Moonachie and expand the printing business to 60 jobs from just over 40. Originally from New Jersey, Satz saw the grant as a way to help her expand her business into a 38,000-square-foot plant, which was about 50 percent larger than her Manhattan factory.
The grant “was definitely a major part” of the decision, Satz said. “It never dawned on me that it was something that wouldn’t happen.”
The company moved into the Moonachie plant in July 2013, and a month later celebrated its opening with a visit from Guadagno. At the end of that year, Satz said, she was eligible for her first rebate for the income tax paid for the last six months of that year.
Satz filed her paperwork as required around April 2014 and expected to get her first rebate check before the year ended. To date, she said, she has received nothing. And like other business owners, she found out she wasn’t getting the money only after she inquired.
Satz said that without the money she has been unable to expand as she expected. She now has 45 employees, only two or three more than when she was in New York. And she now must look elsewhere for a down payment on a binding machine she had hoped would be covered by her first BEIP payment.
“You could never run a business that way,” she said, referring to the state’s failure to meet its promises. “I constantly see all kinds of incentives in the newspaper that are being offered. So I guess I am very confused as to what are all these incentives to bring companies to New Jersey when our incentive has been withheld.”
…
Christie spokesman Kevin Roberts said the governor had to let the $90.5 million lapse in 2010 because, on taking office, he was faced with a $2.2 billion budget gap left by his predecessor, Jon Corzine.
Roberts said “revenue shortfalls in FY14 [the 2013-14 budget] required solutions to bring it into balance while protecting core services like hospitals, schools and our seniors.”
Last June, the Democrat-controlled Legislature cut all $175 million of BEIP funding to help balance the current state budget, which Christie eventually signed. Legislators reasoned that the state had other incentive programs and that the state’s dire fiscal picture meant there should be “shared sacrifice” by businesses, given that payments to employee pensions were also cut.
There is no such thing as a fast track foreclosure in NJ.
Common sense says the first requirement for a fast track foreclosure is a lender who wants to foreclose fast.
As if.
Read a paper out of Seton Hall the other day that stated the solution for NJ’s foreclosure problem is to actually lengthen the foreclosure process, and to help owners understand that they should remain in the property.
They also suggested including new power of sale provisions to force a sale. Which would allow these properties to return to market faster, providing discounted housing for those who were foreclosed on.
I shit you not.
For your reading pleasure – I’m hoping this guy is a first year law student. He’ll have a successful career in the democratic organization.
http://scholarship.shu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1138&context=student_scholarship
#3 Grim
“By the way, I still have not heard of a single abandoned property being fast tracked to sheriff sale by the expedited foreclosure law passed 2 years ago.
Not one, not a single one, please someone prove me wrong.”
Me either. I can though show you a dozen in two towns that have been sitting empty for at least three years.
Lived in one for six months while waiting to purchase another property in town exchanging repairs and renovations for rent. Now, six months later, that place is still sitting. However, it is no longer empty as the owner/mortgage holder moved back in, is still not paying and hasn’t since 2009! Amazing!
Hmm….maybe I should do that with one of my rentals (just stop paying)? Could build up a ton of cash quick then, pay it off (when I had to do something before it was taken)! My margin would be awesome and a decade ahead of schedule!
I live on a street in Colts Neck with an abandoned property that has sat empty for 7 years and another where the guy has lived without cost for the same period.
#98 (previous thread) Grim
Want to fix it? Open your fridge, how many miles did your food fly to get there?
“What’s the use of a fine house if you haven’t got a tolerable planet to put it on?”
Thoreau
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/18/us/west-virginia-train-derailment-dumps-oil-into-river.html
The rail line in Bergen county ships 7 million gallons a day over the Oradell reservoirs all the way to Philly through some pretty densely populated towns.
12 – Never pegged you for a pipeline advocate.
11 – I generally buy local whenever possible, in the winter there aren’t many local produce options, and I’m not going to get into canning vegetables anytime soon. We don’t eat much in the way of processed foods, and we can go weeks without having to “go into the aisles” at the supermarket. One loop around the outer ring is generally it. We’ll pay more for local meat, but sometimes even local isn’t so local.
I didn’t realize that this behavior was a vice until the other day, paying a premium for something of a higher quality, despite. Suppose I should be doing my grocery shopping at Walmart. Are they importing poultry from China yet? I’ve read every Michael Pollan book.
My position holds, we’ve made huge strides in pollution in the US. I understand that the new fad is CO2, but I lived through the smog crisis, the hole in the ozone crisis, the polluted rivers crisis, the landfill crisis, the medical waste on the beach crisis, and the acid rain crisis. I lived through the superfund boom, and I’ve even told the story of getting a signed letter from GHB for being such a concerned citizen. I even climbed through the sewer pipes at one of the Givaudan plants to measure the cyanide concentration in their wastewater effluent. We’ve done our part to clean up our act in many of these cases. How about everybody else pull their weight. We’re at the point of diminishing returns. We could spend a fortune taking it to the Nth degree, making the US even less globally competitive in the process, and it wouldn’t make a dent.
As well, my position is more valuable than yours, because I drive an electric car, and you only drive a hydrocarbon fuel pollution machine (Prius).
thoreau……NY legislation…….foreclosures……….mmmmm
nice thread this morning. merging several interests.
foreclosure auction purchase in obscure part of NYS to live in peace and quiet for my remaining years.
keep it going guys. help me out (of here).
It’s amazing I’m not a democrat.
Here’s something I’ve noticed is a major problem with some abandoned houses:
No one wants to buy them because of the required and expensive flood insurance (not talking about Sandy related but structures on or near rivers and streams that have been flooded out several times in the last decade). Add in needed repairs and/or renovations…they are NEVER going to sell.
This is a problem in smaller towns in rural NJ where the downtown area has a river or stream flowing through. Some are beautiful Victorians, empty…and will be for as long as I can see. These are tax revenue killers for small municipalities that don’t have much else.
Common sense says the first requirement for a fast track foreclosure is a lender who wants to foreclose fast.
Actually a brilliant comment. Wonder if delaying a lost-cause foreclosure is really a clever put option.
[8] grim
Typically, first years don’t write Notes for journals.
17 – What you are describing was the reason the Blue Acres program was established.
While it doesn’t directly address the tax component, the theory is that by reducing overall flood risk, municipal cost burden associated with that risk is reduced above and beyond the lost property tax revenue.
[16] grim
“It’s amazing I’m not a democrat.”
It’s an intelligence thing. If you don’t believe that opinionated tweets or Internet memes are the same as facts, and you know what a rhetorical fallacy is, you can’t be a democrat.
Then there’s the whole hard work, personal responsibility, envy thing. . . .
20 – Yes, but the historic downtown could then be gutted giving even less of a
reason for people to want to live there. No win, for anyone.
Some of these buildings have been around over 200 years and now because of a
few hurricanes in a freak time frame they are no longer sustainable?
As usual, insurance ruining everything.
grim, 8
That essay started out kind of interesting, reviewing the evolution of common law. Then the author skipped about 3 centuries, alleging that not much changed between 1770 and 1995 when it comes to mortgage law in NJ. That sounds odd. Then there was a bunch of alphabet laws I didn’t feel like reading about. Then in the conclusion there was something about slowing down foreclosure even more (letting people stay in homes longer that they aren’t paying for) while simultaneously urging to use abandoned homes more quickly for public housing.
Sounds like heaven for deadbeats.
I like the 1770 version better. Pay up or leave, unless you bring cash to the court. So much simpler.
One aspect of the zombie foreclosure problem that surprises me is that the gas companies will so readily shut off the gas to a house when temperatures are well below freezing.
When some of these deadbeat owners decide it’s time to give up on a place, the least they could do is winterize it. I know that decency would be a foreign concept to many of them.
Maybe the gas company should be required to confirm the water has been shut off to a place before they can shut off the gas in the winter months.
My condo managing agent has problems in Queens of condos in foreclosure where owner dies with no heirs or messy probate.Folks actually monitor this. They break in and fix up units and rent them. Sometimes it goes on for awhile. He has a condo in Queens rented seven years. The unit is actually paying maint. Of course no mortgage or property taxes.
We caught someone in my building attempting to do it. Very popular, they also do it with houses.
Yes, but the historic downtown could then be gutted giving even less of a
reason for people to want to live there. No win, for anyone.
Some of these buildings have been around over 200 years and now because of a
few hurricanes in a freak time frame they are no longer sustainable?
I hear you, my perspective on this is a little different from yours. From where I live, the flood issue isn’t in the quaint old town, it’s in the run down bungalows on the river that should have never been year-round housing to begin with:
http://abnf.co/NJ-hoffman_grove_wayne_nj.htm
In this situation, restoring the flood plain makes a whole lot more sense than in yours, where there is historical and architectural merit worth preserving.
Was actually very surprised to hear that the Army Corps were considering building levees in North Jersey to protect homes from flooding. I’d never heard this actively considered up here before. Some of the levees would be absolutely massive.
Also interesting is the fact that many of the homes in the Grove were elevated, much in the same way that they are discussing with the Sandy homes.
It’s clear that simply raising properties to reduce the flood damage is not the solution. The water will take a toll, the floods will take a toll. If flooding does get worse, raising properties just delays the inevitable.
Anyone advocating for mass raising of properties at the shore should spend some time in the remnants of the Grove.
fastrack the foreclosure of the lender
14- Great post. Strong and convincing point about the U.S. doing their part on the pollution front.
It’s time for these other countries to step it up. Using the excuse that the U.S. and other advanced nations polluted the planet to get ahead is a lame one. The world didn’t know any better during the first industrial revolution. Now we do, we realized we must protect the water we drink, the air we breathe, and the land we eat from. It’s common sense. It’s wrong what Chinese and Indian leaders are allowing in their country in terms of pollution when they know the harm that comes with it. Wrong on every level. They should force the politicians that allow their rivers to become polluted to have to drink from those rivers. That will solve the problem really fast. What’s a matter, can’t survive off polluted waters? Now you know why you should take care of them a-hole.
Btw, I’m not a democrat either, but when it comes to the environment, I’m a strong advocate.
Wayne NJ just got a $31m federal grant to buy out and tear down 114 properties.
There is a tax hit, but it’s not astronomical, since most of these properties are the lowest assessed in the town. The town will save more money every year in services required to support the flood disasters.
“If there’s moral hazard, it’s on the part of lenders –especially private sector– who have been bailed out repeatedly”
PF (climate change discussion from yesterday):
I’m not sure how a poll given to climate scientists proves anything. If anything, it’s a complete waste of time and resources. I am very much in Grim’s camp on this. I am not a climate change denier, though I would not stake my life on it being all human caused. We have really done enough in this country. All of the low hanging fruit has been plucked. Go to China or India. It will change your perspective dramatically.
The 2014 survey authors noted, “… human activity as the primary cause of recent climate change (was selected by) 78 percent of climate experts actively publishing on climate change, 73 percent of all people actively publishing on climate change, and 62 percent of active publishers who mostly do not publish on climate change.”
But they also stated, “A substantial number of expert AMS members – 22 percent of the most expert group (emphasis added) in our sample – do not subscribe to the position that global warming is mostly human caused.” Further, “Any suggestion that all those with nonmajority views simply need to be ‘educated’ is inaccurate. …”
“Wayne NJ just got a $31m federal grant to buy out and tear down 114 properties.”
I used to rent a bedroom in one of those properties. A few years back, I shared a story about how the owner offered me new furniture. All I needed to do was bring my old furniture to his house after it flooded and toss it into his living room. I didn’t partake, but I can bet you a ton of people did.
Anon being a moron again.
Dodd-Frank. What party were these two members of? Because they passed a bill that your superhero Obama signed into law that was completely toothless and in many ways encouraged more of this deplorable behavior and moral hazard. Now why is that? Because all politicians are bought. So it’s time for you to stop sucking their d1cks. Especially Dodd. For he would rather be sucking yours.
Arrest the borrowers!
U.S. identifying people to target for role in mortgage crisis
(Reuters) – U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said on Tuesday he has given federal prosecutors a 90-day deadline to decide whether they can bring cases against individuals for their roles in the 2008 financial crisis.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/02/17/us-usa-mortgages-holder-idUKKBN0LL1X920150217
It’s sort of a catch 22 for mortgage industry. You can take over the property but do what with it? The property has to be secured and winterized which cost money. Need someone to go by every now and then to monitor it. Then you could look to sell it, but if the property is in such disrepair that even if you sold “as is” you would be afraid of some liability there. And mortgage servicers are not in the rental business either.
Their best bet is to make a sweetheart deal with an investor but if the property(s) is in a bad neighborhood, good luck finding one.
[35] Juice
Might have to stop posting for a while.
I like the Reuters headline better.
NY Post makes it seem like there are going to be perp walks of the people who are actually to blame.
Here is Time’s top 25 list.
Angelo Mozilo
Phil Gramm
Alan Greenspan
Chris Cox
American Consumers
Hank Paulson
Joe Cassano
Ian McCarthy
Frank Raines
Kathleen Corbet
Dick Fuld
Marion and Herb Sandler
Bill Clinton
George W. Bush
Stan O’Neal
Wen Jiabao
David Lereah
John Devaney
Bernie Madoff
Lew Ranieri
Burton Jablin
Fred Goodwin
Sandy Weill
David Oddsson
Jimmy Cayne
What happens if they don’t find anyone to prosecute in the next 90 days? They just close the door on prosecuting anyone?
Good god.
Re: ‘Winterizing’ empty and/or ‘abandoned’ houses. Over the years I’ve looked at dozens and have yet to see ‘Winterizing’ done correctly. At several all they did was tack up some papers saying that it had been done!
*In years past I’ve had empty rentals that had to be ‘Winterized’ until next tenant.
I’ve also looked at houses that were ‘Winterized’ incompletely or incorrectly and the damage that they had sustained pretty much made them knockdowns (bid on one last week as the lot is in a great location – was not accepted and neither was anyone else’s).
Saw where one angry underwater abandonee opened all the windows and turned on all the water faucets (and left them on) before leaving, in January. Ruined a classic old home that was in great shape.
And I would say the #1 difficulty is the property has to be in a good enough condition that a mortgage company would underwrite a loan on it. Otherwise your only option is straight cash, hello Investor. If you think about it, the mortgage company could end up putting more money into renovating the house than the previous owner ever did.
———–
Tampa Bay led nation in completed foreclosures in 2014
Unlike a few years ago, when many foreclosures went on the market while in deplorable shape, banks often rehab properties now before offering them for sale. The goal is to attract buyers who intend to live in the house, not rent it or flip it for a quick profit.
“The banks are starting to repair (foreclosures) to help improve the neighborhoods and bring the quality of the property up versus selling it as is for investors,” Chicouris said.
Another advantage of renovations: Owner-occupants have an easier time getting financing if the property is in good condition.
In St. Petersburg’s Shore Acres neighborhood, Wells Fargo completely remodeled a stilt home including new kitchen and bath.
Just listed at $239,000, “That property will go way over the asking price,” predicted Scott Samuels, the Realtor who has the listing. “We’ll have a (bidding) war on that one.”
Wells Fargo also “white boxes” certain foreclosed properties, removing all cabinets and spraying the entire interior with white paint to remove dirt and stench.
“That’s generally done in houses that aren’t valuable enough to totally renovate,” Samuels said, noting that the bank paid $27,000 to white-box a home that listed for just $18,000.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/realestate/tampa-bay-led-the-nation-in-completed-foreclosures-in-2014/2217102
[40] NJT
It’s a pain in the butt to inspect a winterized REO. Although it was sold “as is”, I wanted to inspect the house before I put my bid in. I had to coordinate with the listing realtor, get their contact at the company that winterized the property so they could come back out and winterize after I inspected. The heat was on and set to like 60. Thinking back on it, all I think they did was shut off the water from the street and put large stickers over all of the toilets.
The listing agents (only did REOs) were an elderly couple. All they did was give the key code to an agent over the phone, periodically check on the property and change out the air fresheners. Sweet gig.
Grim – I will be surprised if there are perp walk of anyone that matters. Stalling for years and now it’s exit stage left for Holder, he resigned in September and is awaiting his replacement Loretta Lynch to be confirmed.
The Senate has put on hold the vote for Loretta Lynch as the next Attorney General and they are having a field day with her too. She negotiated the settlement with HSBC, you know the money-laundering for the Mexican drug cartels, nobody even took a perp walk for that either, and now the recent HSBC leak of the HSBC Swiss clients list of tax evaders.
Everybody walks….
I agree, our country has done its part. It’s time for these other countries to do their part. Otherwise, don’t come bother us in 50 years when your land is so polluted that you can’t survive off it.
We must study the climate and collect data in order to give us the best chance possible to adapt to it. It’s def happening, it doesn’t matter whether man is responsible. What matters is that we give ourselves the best chance to survive it.
Libturd in the City says:
February 18, 2015 at 10:13 am
PF (climate change discussion from yesterday):
I’m not sure how a poll given to climate scientists proves anything. If anything, it’s a complete waste of time and resources. I am very much in Grim’s camp on this. I am not a climate change denier, though I would not stake my life on it being all human caused. We have really done enough in this country. All of the low hanging fruit has been plucked. Go to China or India. It will change your perspective dramatically.
The 2014 survey authors noted, “… human activity as the primary cause of recent climate change (was selected by) 78 percent of climate experts actively publishing on climate change, 73 percent of all people actively publishing on climate change, and 62 percent of active publishers who mostly do not publish on climate change.”
But they also stated, “A substantial number of expert AMS members – 22 percent of the most expert group (emphasis added) in our sample – do not subscribe to the position that global warming is mostly human caused.” Further, “Any suggestion that all those with nonmajority views simply need to be ‘educated’ is inaccurate. …”
FKA [41];
Wells Fargo also “white boxes” certain foreclosed properties, removing all cabinets and spraying the entire interior with white paint to remove dirt and stench.
“That’s generally done in houses that aren’t valuable enough to totally renovate,” Samuels said, noting that the bank paid $27,000 to white-box a home that listed for just $18,000.
How is that viable over knocking the place down? Can tear-down cost more than $25k? Is the dirt, ready for new build, worth less than $18k? Seems to me flat land would bring more interest than a (literally) white-washed structure.
$10-25k is realistic cost range for demolition. In places like Fl or Tx, with no basements, likely cheaper. Cost of hauling away the waste is significant, it would require a number of dumpsters, heavy equipment, multiple guys. Don’t forget about local provisions like pest remediation and rodent control, permits and any other inspections, public notices, certified letters, insurance, etc. Tearing a house down is just as complicated a building one.
[45] Anon
My guess is that the property is in a area where new construction wouldn’t make sense in the neighborhood considering a house is listed at $18k.
Never said they were smart. I’ve seen mortgage companies refuse to accept a short sale offer of $300k, only to foreclose and sell 5 months later for $250k.
Who wants to vomit? Advance to 74:14-77:08. It’s Safe For Work and demonstrates what I (personally) feel is wrong with the world today.
http://baristanet.com/2014/11/parcc-backlash-dominates-montclair-boe-meeting/
In other news, the residents of Montclair have essentially ran the Superintendent of the BOE out of town. She just announced her resignation. Sadly, she was 100% better than the last one, but was trained at the Broad Academy which made her dead on arrival in progressive (one giant herd of non-thinking sheep) Montclair.
Guess you could put up one of these sweet homes….
http://www.escapehomes.us/#!gallery/c1jjh
#46
Yup. Would have done it with a partner (we have done deals together before).
Re: Short Sales. Many times now I’ve seen banks end up selling them for far less than offers initially made.
There is a small neighborhood nearby and directly behind it is a large abandoned house with feral cats running in an out of the holes in the side. It would be better for the whole area if they would tear down these places….or burn them.
Can we put feral Anon inside before they burn it down?
Fabius would demand that we pay 25 cents more a gallon for gasoline in NJ, then run out and buy the newest prius, and apply for a tax rebate. Fabius and Grim are the reason our transportation fund is broke.
Yes, you are correct, transporting oil by rail to Linden is dangersous, so let’s build the pipeline then. BTW, it’s also shipped via barges that sail through our waterways everyday.
http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/01/environment_is_the_overriding_theme_in_the_pilgrim.html
Fabius Maximus says:
February 18, 2015 at 8:04 am
The rail line in Bergen county ships 7 million gallons a day over the Oradell reservoirs all the way to Philly through some pretty densely populated towns.
53 – I drive plenty of miles in my SUV to make up for it.
My comment about driving an electric car has nothing to do with environmentalism, and everything to do with denying the middle east my petrodollar.
Here’s another crazy government agency talking about climate change.
“But within the lifetime of a child growing up here, all this could vanish into the Atlantic Ocean. The land that the base is built upon is literally sinking, meaning sea levels are rising in Norfolk roughly twice as fast as the global average. There is no high ground, nowhere to retreat. It feels like a swamp that has been dredged and paved over — and that’s pretty much what it is. All it takes is a rainstorm and a big tide and the Atlantic invades the base — roads are submerged, entry gates impassable. A nor’easter had moved through the area the day before my visit. On Craney Island, the base’s main refueling depot, military vehicles were up to their axles in seawater. Water pooled in a long, flat grassy area near Admiral’s Row, where naval commanders live in magnificent houses built for the 1907 Jamestown Exposition. ‘It’s the biggest Navy base in the world, and it’s going to have to be relocated,’ says former Vice President Al Gore. ‘It’s just a question of when.’
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-pentagon-climate-change-how-climate-deniers-put-national-security-at-risk-20150212
Do what the folks in Long Beach do. Get a permit to do some type of work not related to demo where you have to disconnect gas, electric water such as claiming foundation work or raising house and accidentally on Sat Morning smash into it with a backhoe so it has to be taken down for safety reasons. Get rid of whole thing by Sunday and by Monday when building dept shows up pay a small fine.
grim says:
February 18, 2015 at 12:27 pm
$10-25k is realistic cost range for demolition. In places like Fl or Tx, with no basements, likely cheaper. Cost of hauling away the waste is significant, it would require a number of dumpsters, heavy equipment, multiple guys. Don’t forget about local provisions like pest remediation and rodent control, permits and any other inspections, public notices, certified letters, insurance, etc. Tearing a house down is just as complicated a building one.
#56..good thing we are not Chile..we got plenty of “interior” land!
I know it’s a lousy source, but it does bring up some interesting points. And it’s RE-related to boot.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/02/17/global-warming-hoax-revealed-in-record-high-manhattan-real-estate-prices/
Question for the group, thinking about installing a pool in my vacation home. House is on the bay, which I hope doesn’t create any special issues but wanted your input (i.e., is it riskier, any thing to look out for or that one should do if the water rises and gets into my backyard and ultimately the pool – which could happen, any preventive maintenance?).
Have been told that in my town, you need to be 10 feet back from the bulkhead and 5 feet from the house. Plus the one guy I had out quoted me about 5-7K just in legal fees and permits to the township and state, which sounds ridiculous.
Looking for something small, 12 x 24 pool or something around that. Hearing that fiberglass and chlorine is the way to go (as opposed to concrete and saltwater).
Got a quote for that size pool and a hot tub with some pavers work surrounding the pool for around $50K all in.
Has anybody dealt with this before or gone through the process? Any and all info/tips and recommendations for who to use are welcome. I am out by LBI on the Shore.
Libturd,
I guess they are counting on the values of their condos being driven up by the Venetian charm of gondolas and water taxis replacing subways. Or that it’s bs that they use to justify command and control tactics. Which seems most likely?
What’s incredibly odd to me is how the sea levels are rising quicker in some locales than others along the east coast, although it’s the same Atlantic Ocean no matter which way we slice it. Tides I suppose, but they change over time as well.
Libturd, the issue with property prices for Manhattan, Miami, London,etc; has to do with holding and hiding of financial assets than with actual environmental issues.
Their worth is the ability to hide and hold wealth. Big, safe, world class cities real estate is now the equivalent of diamonds and gold coins.
In a world where banking secrecy is kaput, where Switzerland is no longer worth anything. World class city real estate ownership sheltered through NV and DE off-the-shelves seasoned corporations, which are owned by offshore entities are a great way to hide the assets.
Financial reporting requirement for real estate are minimal, and essentially non-existant compared to financial accounts.
OK. But wouldn’t climate change (a la a flooded NYC) pose a serious risk to real estate assets nonetheless, regardless of the transparency of the investment to the government of the foreign buyer?
There will be levees built around Manhattan long before it floods.
Great song…….”When The Levee Breaks” by Led Zeppelin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbrjRKB586s
#45 Moose – I broker for Wells Fargo. Their repair-white box-tear down standards have little basis in reality. They have torn down 2 properties that I have handled and white boxed several. Recent white box with structural repairs on a property in Livingston. House was a certain tear down and I told them they were burning the money. Currently under contract and buyer is planning to tear down. They took down a property in East Orange, a 2 family with structural problems in a rough area. Could have sold the property as is for $20,000. They spent $20,000 taking it down and donated the land to a non-profit and will pay me a $1500 commission. Reducing loses does not appear to be a factor in their decision making.
On the issue of speedy foreclosures…If you ask the banks if they want that, they say yes. But if you look at the banks practices in handling foreclosures, evictions, repairs and marketing you will see that they don’t do anything in a timely fashion.
re # 60 – 5-7K just in legal fees and permits? WTF?
re: “any preventive maintenance?” Against the ocean flooding? Pool will fill with sand what can you do sandbag it?
Also for Jersey the season is short unless you heat it, most people don’t go overboard with extras, lighting, grotto etc since it will be covered most of the time. Don’t bother with a slide or diving board either your insurance company will give you a hard time.
Make sure you get a pool alarm too, having somebody’s kid drown in your pool will make for a bad year.
To each their own, but why a pool on LBI? Swim in the bay!
reL #65 – Hoboken thinks they will building levees too, apparently 16 ft high.
I have my doubts this will ever be completed.
http://www.hudsonreporter.com/view/full_story/26406429/article-DEP–Hoboken-flood-barriers-7-to-10-years-away–Levees-could-reach-as-much-as-16-feet-above-sea-level-
#42 FKA 2010 Buyer says: “The listing agents (only did REOs) were an elderly couple. All they did was give the key code to an agent over the phone, periodically check on the property and change out the air fresheners. Sweet gig.”
Ain’t like that. There are weekly inspections and reports with time/date stamped photos. Monthly bookkeeping on every property including utilities and maintenance. Other tasks include dealing with tenants, obtaining estimates, coordinating repairs, snow removal, initial occupancy checks, evictions and not always in very nice neighborhoods.
Perhaps you should think about what really goes on in the world before you decide the other guy has it made!
Thanks. Some people are scared of the bay and won’t jump in (not me, last summer we had one of those 12 person rafts tied to the dock and it was a lot of fun).
We also have an outdoor bar and it would be real easy to just slide into the pool with a cocktail. Also, the pool is easier for kids to play in. Also the bay can get pretty cold sometimes, so with a heated pool you def would get more participants I think.
Does anybody know roughly if adding a pool increases the property value dollar for dollar?
Thanks. Some people are scared of the bay and won’t jump in. Also the bay can get pretty cold sometimes, so with a heated pool you def would get more participants I think.
We also have an outdoor bar and it would be real easy to just slide into the pool with a cocktail. And it’s probably easier/safer for kids to jump in the pool than the bay.
Does anybody know roughly if adding a pool increases the property value proportionately?
Not Libturd,
You address the issue of real estate as a financial asset held by the rich. This is already widely understood. This doesn’t address the issue of why limousine liberals would invest said asset in real estate that Al Gore had already more or less condemned to sinking beneath the waves in their lifetime.
If in fact low lying areas could be protected with dykes or levees, then that may be a less costly and more effective way of dealing with climate and geological change (caused by nature or man) that has been used for centuries, with fewer harmful side effects than throttling humanity’s industrial progress, which after all, is humanity’s primary asset in surviving the inevitable ravages that nature provides over the centuries.
56- This passage explains it all. The Koch bros and big energy got involved, no wonder every republican changed the tune to their beat. Can’t bite the hand that feeds you. It’s understandable, money talks.
“Even McCain, now firmly in the denial camp, didn’t hesitate to draw the connection between climate change and national security. “If the scientists are right and temperatures continue to rise,” he said on the Senate floor in 2007, “we could face environmental, economic and national-security consequences far beyond our ability to imagine.”
This kind of talk vanished from the party after 2008, when the GOP turned into a subsidiary of Koch Industries. Since then, Republicans have worked hard to undermine any connection between climate and national security. Case in point: In 2009, then-CIA director Leon Panetta quietly started the Center on Climate Change and National Security. It was a straightforward attempt by the intelligence community to gather a better understanding of the changes to come. Among other things, the Center funded a major study of the relationships between climate change and social stress, under the auspices of the National Academy of Sciences, one of the most respected scientific organizations in the country. Climate deniers in Congress didn’t like it, especially Republican John Barrasso of Wyoming, a Big Coal state. By the time the report was completed, Panetta had left the CIA and his successor, Gen. David Petraeus, let it wither. “We felt constant pressure to water down our conclusions,” says one of the co-authors of the National Academy report. The day the report was released, the press conference was suddenly canceled, and the report was buried. A few weeks later, the Center on Climate Change and National Security was disbanded.
Barrasso has also been a key figure in derailing Senate hearings on the connection between climate and national security. Last year, Daniel Chiu, one of the Pentagon’s top strategists, testified intelligently about the national-security implications of climate change. But in the Q&A period that followed, Barrasso disappeared into fantasyland, quizzing Chiu about “global international crime syndicates” that are manipulating European environmental policies “to aid and support terrorist organizations and drug cartels that wish to do us and our allies harm.”
Deniers in Congress have gone after the Pentagon where military officials feel it most: their budget. Last year, House Republicans tagged an amendment onto the defense appropriations bill that prohibited the Pentagon from spending any money implementing recommendations from the latest report of the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. “The amendment had no effect on the defense budget, since the IPCC’s recommendations don’t really apply to us,” one Pentagon insider told me. “But the intent was clear: This is going to be war.””
Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-pentagon-climate-change-how-climate-deniers-put-national-security-at-risk-20150212#ixzz3S8XVHT1l
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook
[71] 30 Year Realtor
I am stating what the listing realtor told me what they did for the REO property that I purchased. No repairs necessary, no tenants, they had it white walled and it was in relatively new construction in an development so there wasn’t that much to do. I left out paying the utilities and assume they did the snow removal but that’s it.
Definitely not the case with all REOs but for this one, she literally came by and changed out the air fresheners.
Some great lines in here….
“In the end, the Kitzhaber-Hayes conflict-of-interest scandal may prove small potatoes (organic), but a general point needs to be made.”
“Mr. Obama advances his environmental claims in the cadences of a preacher invoking the miracles of Moses, describing his own advent in biblical terms as the “moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.” ”
“When it comes to proving Mr. Obama’s prayer breakfast point, however, give the prize to Vladimir Putin ’s alleged funding of Western green groups to lobby against fracking. ”
By HOLMAN W. JENKINS, JR.
The Kitzhaber scandal in Oregon demonstrates many obvious things:
Single-party rule is intrinsically corrupting. Self-righteousness is often a masquerade of self-interest. In a theme that might have been borrowed from President Obama’s prayer breakfast, claims of holiness are no less suspect when derived from the modern religion of environmentalism than from any of the more traditional faiths.
Gov. John Kitzhaber, the four-termer who will step down Wednesday amid a conflict-of-interest scandal involving his fiancée, was “a bright and idealistic young man, totally committed to the environment,” writes local political observer Floyd McKay of Western Washington University. Mr. Kitzhaber’s fiancée, Cylvia Hayes, the author of his downfall, boasts a master’s degree in environmental studies. The two came together, says the New York Times , over a “shared passion for a low-carbon energy future.” But not to worry. Mr. Kitzhaber’s successor, Oregon’s secretary of state, is a lawyer with a degree in environmental conservation.
Are you getting that icky feeling yet? There comes a moment when you should hear echoes of Pope Francis ’s complaint of a Catholic hierarchy full of cynics bathing in easy grace as they pursue self-advancement.
In Ms. Hayes, Mr. Kitzhaber apparently landed a beaut: She snagged $5,000 for engaging in a sham green-card marriage; schemed up a plan to buy a Washington state farm and grow illegal marijuana; received a state contract under Mr. Kitzhaber despite being a high bidder; got paid thousands of dollars to draft a “Green Jobs Growth Plan” that allegedly contained passages plagiarized from an existing state plan.
Whatever Ms. Hayes’s feelings of sincerity, it would not have taken especially keen antennae to detect that green was the color to wrap herself in to afford upward mobility in Oregon’s political culture.
In the end, the Kitzhaber-Hayes conflict-of-interest scandal may prove small potatoes (organic), but a general point needs to be made. In our republican system of government, we don’t assume virtue. We insist on checks and balances. We require competitive bidding and similarly transparent procedures to reduce discretion and the chances of corruption. We subject regulations to cost-benefit analysis to make sure the public is really being served.
In Kitzhaber World, there is no need for any of this—because everyone involved is a credentialed environmentalist! It doesn’t matter if his fiancée was lobbying for private environmental clients, Mr. Kitzhaber said, because all are on the same team pursuing the same selfless goals.
Maybe religions have to be around for a while before they discover the wisdom of inoculating themselves against the imbecility of self-righteousness. If so, environmentalism is still traveling the downward leg. America’s first clean-water and clean-air laws placed the issue firmly under the heading of public health, tying environmental protection closely to observable public benefits. The Cuyahoga River was burning. The air in Los Angeles was unbreathable.
Only in the decades after the 1970s and the creation of the Environmental Protection Agency has the cause become progressively unlinked from demonstrable human benefits here and now, in favor of a more eschatological outlook. Mr. Obama advances his environmental claims in the cadences of a preacher invoking the miracles of Moses, describing his own advent in biblical terms as the “moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.”
And look at the swelling corps of handout-seeking billionaires and corporations who have perfected “green” self-interest. Not just wind and solar and ethanol impresarios, but even one of the world’s biggest oil companies, BP , pronounced itself “beyond petroleum” in the 1990s while expanding its petroleum footprint by acquiring Amoco and Atlantic Richfield.
But something about our Western longitudes seems to be conducive to a hypocrisy so unaware of itself as to be entertaining. Take Tim Cook of Apple, who sanctimoniously advised investors at Apple’s annual meeting to “get out of the stock” if opposed to shareholder money subsidizing green energy. Too bad taxpayers can’t opt out. Mr. Cook’s latest $848 million solar project will be profitable, he insists, thanks to taxpayer subsidies that include 30% of the project’s upfront costs.
Don’t get us started on Google and its callow “don’t be evil” sloganeering. When it comes to proving Mr. Obama’s prayer breakfast point, however, give the prize to Vladimir Putin ’s alleged funding of Western green groups to lobby against fracking. Environmentalism, alas, is a church with its reformation nowhere in sight. Jesus provided his followers the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector to guard against sanctimony. The greenies will have to admit corruption is possible before they can do anything about it.
I’ll be interested in Rolling Stone’s opinion on science and politics some time after they demonstrate some expertise in their alleged core competency of music criticism. In other words, never.
Just like some right wingers think climate change is some conspiracy by the left to take their money, it seems some righties feel the same way about the anti-smoking campaign. How can you take these type of people serious on any issue? Pretty sad.
“Why Defend Smokers?
Everywhere you look, anti-smoking groups are campaigning against smokers. They claim smoking kills one third or even half of all smokers; that secondhand smoke is a major public health problem; that smokers impose enormous costs on the rest of society; and that for all these reasons, taxes on cigarettes should be raised.
There are many reasons to be skeptical about what professional anti-smoking advocates say. They personally profit by exaggerating the health threats of smoking and winning passage of higher taxes and bans on smoking in public places. The anti-smoking movement is hardly a grassroots phenomenon: It is largely funded by taxpayers and a few major foundations with left-liberal agendas.
A growing number of independent policy experts from a wide range of professions and differing political views are speaking out against the anti-smoking campaign. They defend smokers for several reasons:
Smokers already pay taxes that are too high to be fair, and far above any cost they impose on the rest of society.
The public health community’s campaign to demonize smokers and all forms of tobacco is based on junk science.
Litigation against the tobacco industry is an example of lawsuit abuse, and has “loaded the gun” for lawsuits against other industries.
Smoking bans hurt small businesses and violate private property rights.
The harm caused by smoking can be reduced by educating smokers about their options.
Punishing smokers “for their own good” is repulsive to the basic libertarian principles that ought to limit the use of government force.”
http://heartland.org/policy-documents/welcome-heartlands-smokers-lounge
77- Smoking or climate change, plug in either and they use the same dumb lines. This really angers me that people can be this stupid.
“The anti-smoking movement is hardly a grassroots phenomenon: It is largely funded by taxpayers and a few major foundations with left-liberal agendas.”
“Smokers already pay taxes that are too high to be fair, and far above any cost they impose on the rest of society.
The public health community’s campaign to demonize smokers and all forms of tobacco is based on junk science.
Litigation against the tobacco industry is an example of lawsuit abuse, and has “loaded the gun” for lawsuits against other industries.
Smoking bans hurt small businesses and violate private property rights.
The harm caused by smoking can be reduced by educating smokers about their options.
Punishing smokers “for their own good” is repulsive to the basic libertarian principles that ought to limit the use of government force.””
grim: Festhalle opened on 2/7
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59136632/AsburyFesthalleBiergarten_FoodMenus.pdf
stu: I’m not good enough to know whether this makes the cut…..
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59136632/AsburyFesthalleBiergarten_BeerMenu.pdf
77- The same institute pushing their propaganda on unknowing audiences. After reading their bs propaganda on smoking, you sure you want to align yourself with these climate skeptics?
“The Heartland Institute is a 30-year-old national nonprofit organization devoted to discovering, developing, and promoting free-market solutions to social and economic problems. Heartland’s Center on Climate and Environmental Policy promotes pro-environment policies based on sound science and economics, not alarmism or ideology. Our strong stand against the politicization of science on matters of public health and the environment have earned us the enmity of many liberal public health and environmental groups and their allies in the mainstream media.
In 2012, The Economist called Heartland “the world’s most prominent think tank supporting skepticism about man-made climate change.” The New York Times called us “the primary American organization pushing climate change skepticism.” We also address other environmental issues including renewable portfolio standards (RPS), clean air standards, smart drilling and hydraulic fracturing, sustainable development, food safety, and more.
Through events, publications, social media, and government relations programs we have changed public opinion on climate change and other environmental topics, and consequently helped change public policy not only in the U.S. but in other countries as well. In 2014, we plan to . . . ”
http://heartland.org/issues/environment
Ever notice how liberals hate tobacco smoke but love marijuana smoke?
Chi, why so anti-environment? You should be greatful for this people. They do the dirty work for us, going to these companies and whistle blowing on their destructive practices. That’s a lot of work and it is not easy. So why are you bashing people that are making a better world for you. We should send all the anti-environmentalists to China where they will fit right in. Better yet, go make them live in some of the most polluted areas. We should make them live in the homes of the Jackson whites up in ringwood. See how they like watching all their family members succumb to cancer at a young age. Doubt they will live there, but they will bash environmentalists. Sickening.
“Environmentalism, alas, is a church with its reformation nowhere in sight. Jesus provided his followers the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector to guard against sanctimony. The greenies will have to admit corruption is possible before they can do anything about it.”
#71 – Not attacking or defending anyone just going to say there are empty
properties out there for sale where none of what you say is happening (there’s
one down the block from me, and the wife – nosy one – across the street from it
is home all day, everyday).
The scenario you have experience in is not occurring everywhere, all the time
and it’s not a tiny percentage.
I did buy one that you describe, though (Another unrealistic estate sale seller
that finally succumbed to reason after losing a big chunk of change on property
taxes, water bills, insurance and two repairs I insisted on…since he waited so
long). My highest margin multi- family rental ever!
Squash Worshipper – Enough on Climate change, it’s boring and beyond your control.
BTW, Big Orange, I was deeply involved in the origin and implementation of C-1 waterway regulations.
Fair enough.
Just can’t stand climate change skeptics. The world climate has been changing since the beginning of time. To sit here and deny it, doesn’t seem like a smart position. Better to face reality and try to understand the world you live in.
NJT says:
February 18, 2015 at 6:29 pm
Squash Worshipper – Enough on Climate change, it’s boring and beyond your control.
Football (JJ Edition): YES!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2824255/Claudia-Romani-packs-modelling-career-professional-referee-Italy.html
87. Moldy Pumkin,
Isn’t it fair to say that liberals are of the belief that prior to the Industrial Age there was no climate change?
Pat…..I am really not into this one…..can you go back to the drawing board?
The Great Pumpkin says:
February 18, 2015 at 6:24 pm
Chi, why so anti-environment? You should be greatful for this people. They do the dirty work for us, going to these companies and whistle blowing on their destructive practices. That’s a lot of work and it is not easy. So why are you bashing people that are making a better world for you. We should send all the anti-environmentalists to China where they will fit right in. Better yet, go make them live in some of the most polluted areas. We should make them live in the homes of the Jackson whites up in ringwood. See how they like watching all their family members succumb to cancer at a young age. Doubt they will live there, but they will bash environmentalists. Sickening.
“Environmentalism, alas, is a church with its reformation nowhere in sight. Jesus provided his followers the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector to guard against sanctimony. The greenies will have to admit corruption is possible before they can do anything about it.”
Agree to both stereotypes.
Only thing I can say; at least the liberals are doing something about climate change instead of ignoring it. Even if man has not contributed to the acceleration of climate change in the past 200 years (highly doubtful, but who cares), is it not in our best interests to try to understand the climate of our planet and how it is changing? What do you have to lose?
Thomas says:
February 18, 2015 at 6:16 pm
Ever notice how liberals hate tobacco smoke but love marijuana smoke?
Thomas says:
February 18, 2015 at 6:53 pm
87. Moldy Pumkin,
Isn’t it fair to say that liberals are of the belief that prior to the Industrial Age there was no climate change?
Chi – Coming through a free proxy server to hide IP, so no idea, it could just be a browser anonymizer. But that’s only recently, otherwise relatively consistent Optimum Online IP address that’s exclusive (I think NJ based, comes up as princeton, but that might not mean anything). Pat relatively constant IP out of Mass (like nearly a year worth). Usually people will slip up, no slip ups. So, inconclusive.
Simple answer- he’s Satan.
You think Forrest Gump would want to, and even be capable of, hiding his IP?
grim says:
February 18, 2015 at 7:52 pm
Chi – Coming through a free proxy server to hide IP, so no idea, it could just be a browser anonymizer. But that’s only recently, otherwise relatively consistent Optimum Online IP address that’s exclusive (I think NJ based, comes up as princeton, but that might not mean anything). Pat relatively constant IP out of Mass (like nearly a year worth). Usually people will slip up, no slip ups. So, inconclusive.
Isn’t Pat in Western MD?
clot…..what is a Liquor Luge?
ok…. Googled….. it appears to be exactly as its name suggests…….
we know where clot is right now……
http://www.wsj.com/articles/fixer-uppers-a-pot-of-gold-or-a-money-pit-1424280009?mod=WSJ_hp_EditorsPicks
re # 97 – Chi – Never been to the ski bar on 2nd ave?
A quick search shows it was shut down in 98 by the Giuliani admin, man I am getting old.
Grim – it isn’t 2007 your traffic must have dropped to just the current peanut gallery.
re # 99 Fixers uppers as Fast Eddie has testified are $500k + in these parts in a “better” town. During my hovel search in 2012-2013 I walked through the sad detritus of way too many fixer uppers and to this day if I had purchased a fixer upper you would still hear the gnashing of my teeth as I spent my hours of “down time” fixing a lifetime of neglect. I now take my wife by the one that I was dead set against in particular as a reminder of the virtue of waiting. This is the one she really, really, really wanted too. Many nights spent debating this 1980s fixer upper, doors, windows, siding, decking, floors, roof, walls, basement, kitchen, pool, and yard all were neglected beyond the fact that they had an illegal shower in a den converted into a bedroom for grandma who could no longer make it up the stairs before she passed. HDTV if I could have cancelled that damm channel back then I would have. Ask was $530k, realtor told me make an offer, and I laughed and said lets move on. Wife says all it needed was some elbow grease and then the argument ensued.
Folks wait, cheap money for now and forever and banks will start up the sausage machine again, meaning easier credit. Just be ready the boomers are heading to wherever they can afford.
Chifi,
That menu looks fine, but is missing the sschweinshaxe I would be hoping to see.
Menu is OK. I dig a lot of the bottled imports, but most are of the mainstream variety. The craft tap list is pretty standard. Very mainstream as well. If the food was good, I would still try it. Anyone going to the AC Beer and Music festival in March? I have some connections there that can get us full bottles or at the minimum, line cutting privs on the better kegs. Let me know.
Schneider Aventinus and Ayinger Celebrator Doppelbock would be the two I would drink first. Though both are available at better liquor stores.
lib,
There’s only one brewery I want to visit before I check out: Farmstead Hill, in Greensboro, VT. Phenomenal – albeit very limited – beers for which people drive 300+ miles for.
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