From the Star Ledger:
7 of the 10 counties in America with the highest property taxes are in N.J., study says
It’s no secret that New Jersey homeowners are hit with some of the highest property taxes in the nation. But just how high, relative to other parts of the country, might be a bit of a shock.
A typical homeowner in Bibb County, Ala., paid just $228 in property taxes in 2013, according to an analysis by Zillow, the real estate website. Compare that to someone paying the median in Paramus or Ridgewood in Bergen, who shelled out $9,546 — about 45 times as much.
Bergen and Bibb lie on opposite ends of a list of median property tax rates nationally. Bergen was third-highest in the country, and the highest in New Jersey, while Bibb joined several other Alabama counties boasting some of the very lowest property tax bills for single-family homes.
Bergen, meanwhile, is one of several New York City-area counties dominating the top 10. Those counties had annual property taxes several times the 2013 national median of $2,132, based on the Zillow analysis, which examined counties in the 50 largest metro areas for which sufficient data was available.
Elsewhere in New Jersey, however, property tax bills, while nowhere near the lowest in the country, were somewhat closer to the national median, according to figures compiled by NJ Advance Media in February (NJ Advance Media looked at average county bills, not the median figure used by Zillow). The average bill in Cumberland in 2013, for instance, was just a little over $3,700 a year, while in nearby Salem, the average was about $4,800.
…
Highest:Westchester, N.Y., $13,842
Rockland, N.Y., $10,550
Bergen, NJ, $9,546
Essex, N.J., $9,288
Nassau, N.Y., $9,091
Passaic, N.J., $8,978
Union, N.J., $8,926
Morris, N.J., $8,549
Hudson, N.J., $8,407
Hunterdon, N.J., $8,392
Since I didn’t post it yesterday, NY Metro Case Shiller
February HPI YOY/YOY2/YOY3
Low Tier (Under $278714)
Year over Year – Up 4.7%
2013-2015 – Up 10.8%
2012-2015 – Up 10.8%
Mid Tier ($278714 – $443447)
Year over Year – Up 2.9%
2013-2015 – Up 9.2%
2012-2015 – Up 11.6%
High Tier (Over $443447)
Year over Year – Up 2.5%
2013-2015 – Up 8.8%
2012-2015 – Up 10.5%
Posting the 3 year because it’s interesting that the longer term average is converging across the tiers. Those multi-year averages are not (obviously) annualized.
From the Record:
Region’s home prices edge up 2.5%
As the housing market continues its slow recovery, single-family home prices in the New York metropolitan area rose 2.5 percent in the 12 months that ended in February, the closely watched S&P/Case-Shiller index reported Tuesday. That was lower than the national gain of 4.2 percent.
“Home prices continue to rise and outpace both inflation and wage gains,” said David M. Blitzer, chairman of the index committee at S&P Dow Jones Indices. But he added: “If a complete recovery means new highs all around, we’re not there yet.”
“At 4.2 percent year-on-year, price growth remains in a healthy range,” economists Patrick Newport and Stephanie Karol of IHS Global Insight wrote in a research report.
Yet in the nation and the New York metropolitan region, home prices are no higher than they were in 2004 — adding up to a lost decade in terms of home values. In the area, prices remain 18.6 percent below their mid-2006 peaks, compared with about 16 percent below for an index of 20 large metropolitan areas around the country.
Home values in New Jersey have been affected by the state’s large overhang of distressed properties in the foreclosure pipeline. New Jersey has been slower than most other states to deal with the mortgage defaults caused by the recession and housing bust, because it is one of the roughly two-dozen states where foreclosures go through the courts. In addition, the process was slowed a few years ago as the mortgage industry dealt with allegations that borrowers’ rights were being abused.
Moreover, New Jersey’s unemployment rate has been higher than the national rate since 2011, and the state still has not recovered all the jobs lost in the 2007-09 recession. New Jersey’s unemployment rate was 6.5 percent in March, compared with a national rate of 5.5 percent.
In Bergen County, single-family home prices declined 6.2 percent in February, compared with a year earlier, to a median $412,536, according to the New Jersey Realtors. In Passaic, prices slid 4.1 percent, to a median $266,610. Those prices were affected by the mix of properties sold during the month. Case-Shiller does not analyze prices by county, but its estimates are considered more reliable because they track the value of the same properties over time.
Somewhat reticent to buy again in Essex – but is Morris Co that much better in terms of long term increases? I think buying in Morris means you pay more on the front end for the home. I dunno –
[113][prior thread] rory martin
“As discussed in here by other many times, the only person here who admits to watching MSNBC is yourself. Is it only for the adverts?”
Where did I say in that post anything about watching MSNBC? And do you think they really reported their own tax foibles? I know its late (are you an insomniac or vampire or something?), but please try to read what is actually being written. Personally, Im surprised because I thought code-writing required a good deal of precision.
And yes, I do watch it from time to time, mostly the shows that come closest to straight news. Unlike some in this conversation, I don’t close myself off to the opposing point of view. Rather the opposite–I need to understand it as well as my opponent and preferably better.
Last year we had a rigger from Alabama moving some equipment for us to down south, had to ride with him to one of the local warehouses we rented and coming upon a cape with a for sale sign he asked what that goes for? told him about 320K All he said was “that thing is the size of my chicken coop!” Imagine if I told him the taxes are 8K.
Left Morris for Warren. Cut my property taxes in half on a comparable property and no, I’m nowhere near Pburg.
Morris county taxes did nothing but rise dramatically for me from 2001-2011.
Think I’m going to buy a boat with the savings.
[113] [prior] rory martin,
“But keep pumping that Associative Fallacy, its seem to be the flavor in here today.”
When in Rome . . .
(and were you intentionally being ironic with that line and the sock “Eddie Ray”?)
[6] Mike
” Imagine if I told him the taxes are 8K.”
He would have sprayed his coffee all over the windshield.
But then, you could explain that its worth it because of the proximity to NYC. I’d love to see his reaction to that.
I have family from Bibb County. I prefer the taxes.
Your blog is really great, I come over every day and each time I find something that suits me
Also, like, not that NJ doesn’t have the world’s worst property taxes… but at least adjust for home value. The median Bibb County home is worth $87K.
By PAUL KRUGMAN
APRIL 25, 2015
Wingnut welfare is an important, underrated feature of the modern U.S. political scene. I don’t know who came up with the term, but anyone who follows right-wing careers knows whereof I speak: the lavishly-funded ecosystem of billionaire-financed think tanks, media outlets, and so on provides a comfortable cushion for politicians and pundits who tell such people what they want to hear. Lose an election, make economic forecasts that turn out laughably wrong, whatever — no matter, there’s always a fallback job available.
Obviously this reality has important incentive effects. It encourages conservatives to espouse ever-cruder positions, because they don’t need to be taken seriously outside their closed universe. But it also, I’ve been noticing, makes them remarkably lazy.
[13] a-none
“Wingnut welfare is an important, underrated feature of the modern U.S. political scene.”
Krugs knows of what he speaks. In his case, he speaks from personal experience.
[14] redux.
And just how lazy do you have to be to lose a job as a tenured professor at Princeton when you hold a Nobel? Seriously, you can literally phone it in.
[13] anon,
Being serious here. That was so ironically funny, I have to ask: Did you post it for the irony and humor or were you actually being serious? Because if it was the former, I have a lot more respect for you.
…the lavishly-funded ecosystem of billionaire-financed think tanks, media outlets, and so on provides a comfortable cushion for politicians and pundits who tell such people what they want to hear.
The Clinton Foundation
So, we pay the highest property taxes and house prices are apparently rising but no one has yet to explain how this is possible when wages have been flat for 15 years. I’ve asked for a plausible explanation and still haven’t seen one.
Eddie [18];
East, the post bubble dip was an overcorrection, as all such things are. Now reverting to the mean.
The mistake is to expect the recent trend to continue inexorably.
Tool [13];
make economic forecasts that turn out laughably wrong,
You mean like this one? That’s such a laughable punching bag, I could do this all day. Alas I must get some productive work done — no “welfare” here.
Well you could always move to a state that taxes food and clothes, or collects hundreds to a thousand from you per car owned each year, or doesn’t include services like garbage pickup in property taxes, or has higher gas taxes, or higher income taxes than NJ. Of course it’s also fun to compare Bergen County to Bumblefvck. The taxes in towns that you’d actually want to live in–like where schools have books other than the bible–in these Sh!thole states are probably not that much lower than NJ.
Taxes here will never be low but they are out of control and there is a lot of waste. I keep looking at homes with 30k tax bills! That’s a lot of money, considering what you are getting for it.
Despite the absence of these other tax methodologies, NJ has the distinguished honor of having the second highest local tax burden as a percentage of income at 12.8%. Second only to New York.
Ottoman says:
April 29, 2015 at 9:33 am
Well you could always move to a state that taxes food and clothes, or collects hundreds to a thousand from you per car owned each year, or doesn’t include services like garbage pickup in property taxes, or has higher gas taxes, or higher income taxes than NJ. Of course it’s also fun to compare Bergen County to Bumblefvck. The taxes in towns that you’d actually want to live in–like where schools have books other than the bible–in these Sh!thole states are probably not that much lower than NJ.
Correction: 12.3%
Jersey is ranked 5th most expensive state to live in within the United States. Add that to your tax burden.
I understand that Washington D.C., New York, and Hawaii beat us, but I was surprised by Alaska.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2014/09/13/cheat-sheet-most-expensive-states/15455129/
I too would prefer a taxation structure where I can buy a nice home and continue living in it whether I’m rich or not, but apparently that is just not in the cards until I move to New England when my income potential runs out.
26 – Good luck, they hate us there.
Suggest you make up a back story that doesn’t involve New Jersey. Probably helpful if the minute you get into Vermont, NH, pull into the nearest rental car place and grab a car with local plates.
NJ is paved with gold.
http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2015/04/look_down_nj_the_land_you_live_on_is_the_most_valuable_in_america_study_finds.html#incart_river_mobile
I can pass for their kind. Plus I won’t have to have a lot of conversations if the house is far enough back from the road.
#5 Eddie Ray
Let me simplify it.
“Now I understand why Fabian likes that network so much. . . ”
Any evidence to back up that claim?
My co-worker is selling this house, seems pretty nice in case anyone is interested:
http://greenpondrealestate.com/homes-for-sale-details/9-Oak-Ln-Rockaway-Twp-NJ-07435/3217036/63/
Happy to put you in touch with him directly.
29 – no don’t talk about that, I want that to be tomorrow’s post
At least give the guy a hat tip.
Wow, $1,800 in the hole and I haven’t even moved in yet? I would walk away from this complex, but it speaks to a common theme discussed here…going against what may be the new norm.
Rental fees at condos leap on strength of investor-owned units
At 555 West 23rd Street, for example, a $500 tenant application-processing fee has jumped to $650, according to rental application documents. In addition, the building has implemented a $500 non-refundable fee for both moving in and moving out – which, added to other document retention and consumer report fees, have taken application costs over $1,800.
Agents attributed the hike in fees to a change in management last year that saw property management giant FirstService Residential assume management of the building. FirstService did not respond to requests for comment. StreetEasy lists over 500 transactions at 555 West 23rd Street since 2006, at an average rent of $3,483.
http://therealdeal.com/blog/2015/04/27/rental-fees-at-condos-leap-on-strength-of-investor-owned-units/
For the record, never try to open an owner-tenant escrow account at Chase. NEVER!
#36
I’ve used PNC for owner-tenant escrow accounts the last three years. No hassles, no issues, yet. + for me is the bank is three blocks from my house. Lucky.
What’s Chase doing?
for many reasons, that man is a disgrace
APRIL 28, 2015
Justice Scalia’s Shameful Joke
BY JEFFREY TOOB
“There was a shocking, ugly moment during the argument of Obergefell v. Hodges, the same-sex marriage case, in the Supreme Court on Tuesday. Right after Mary Bonauto, the lawyer challenging marriage bans in several states, completed her argument, a spectator rose from a back row and started screaming, “If you support gay marriage, you will burn in Hell!” As the man yelled, “It’s an abomination!,” guards carried him from the courtroom.
That wasn’t the ugly part, though. In the quiet moment after the man was removed, as his shouts vanished into the hallway, Justice Antonin Scalia filled the silence with a quip. “It was rather refreshing, actually,” he said.
Geez, guy next to me taking real estate advice from MetLife insurance salesman. “Rate hike is imminent. Buy now”, “House values will rise when rates go up. I know it seems counterintutive”. “Rent your condo out and it will pay your mortgage”. “Banks are strict on lending now bc rates are so low. When rates rise, liquidity will flood residential real estate causing values to rise. Next year, it will happen”
What a load of BS. This guy should run away now..
Bystander,
Astonishing, isn’t it?
NJT,
First, they said there’s a new policy where you opened the account yourself by downloading and filling out necessary paperwork. I went to their link and it looked more painful than doing my own taxes. It certainly would have taken a few hours. I went back to the branch with the stack of forms in my hand and told my banker they are smoking crack and that not a single person would ever do this. They said I was not the only one to complain and that no one yet did it themselves. They then said that they could open the accounts (I have two to do) at the local branch like in the past. Second, I had to pay $6 to verify that the TIN for my LLC was still valid (anti-fraud). It looked like everything was done as I was given account numbers and they accepted my tenant’s cashier checks, but alas, got another call that said that they couldn’t open the accounts as the local branch, though they could do the paper work there. I would need to come in and get the paperwork and in the meantime, they issued to me back two cashier checks. Oh, the tenants would have to sign some form, which I need to hand deliver to them tonight and I will also need a new W-9 from one of them as the first one was signed over 30 days ago. It’s really pathetic. Since I’m most of the way done supposedly, I will finish it with Chase unless there is another snafu. Next time I am going to TD Bank where I heard the process is quick and easy from friends on a Facebook forum. I am going on my 4th branch visit to Chase at this point.
Anon [38];
You cut and paste that as if you are totally ignorant (full stop… no, continue) — ignorant of the ongoing campaign by leftist activists using Citizens’ United as their excuse du jour to repeatedly and routinely disrupt the court.
What was refreshing was the point of view of the protester. The most recent protester was, however, removed from the courtroom, just like your sainted leftists were, without prejudice.
Hey Anon, what do you think of the wedding cake at this same sex marriage?
Me likey…
http://www.nj.com/weddings/index.ssf/2015/04/weddings_danielle_vinci_jessica_binns.html#incart_river
D,
You just blew anone’s mind with that. Can not compute. Can not compute.
Astonishing? More like listening to a crime in the making..it is these times where value my untrustworthy and cynical personality. The guy was a charlatan. I think his victim was Sri Lankan immgigrant looking to protect his family. The best was “you should consider Newtown (CT), a great place for school age children”. Cringeworthy to say the least. Don’t think the guy has even been in the country two years. I left when life insurance scam started.
Sounds like a simple math problem, perhaps grim has the actual data. How many $600K houses are currently for sale in NJ? How many NJ residents can “afford” the mortgage on a $600K house? I’m guessing the number of potential buyers is at least 50X the number of houses listed for sale.
The NJ state population is 9 million and “9.7 percent of Garden State residents have an income of more than $200,000”
http://nj1015.com/study-nj-among-wealthiest-states
——-
“So, we pay the highest property taxes and house prices are apparently rising but no one has yet to explain how this is possible when wages have been flat for 15 years. I’ve asked for a plausible explanation and still haven’t seen one.”
@Britt_Ghiroli:
Os announce the official paid attendance is zero.
@2170: @Britt_Ghiroli @KeithOlbermann
Yankees would have announced it at 45,126
Sounds legit:
http://www.njfamily.com/Oradell/
I found some inspiring lyrics from the Dead Kennedys for anon.
I listened to this album a lot in 1986. Then I grew up.
Sounds like leftists still use this as their key talking points
Soup Is Good Food Lyrics
We’re sorry
But you’re no longer needed
Or wanted
Or even cared about here
Machines can do a better job than you
This is what you get for asking questions
The unions agree
‘Sacrifices must be made’
Computers never go on strike
To save the working man you’ve got to put him out to pasture
Looks like we’ll have to let you go
Doesn’t it feel fulfilling to know
That you-the human being-are now obsolete
And there’s nothing in hell we’ll let you do about it
Soup is good food-(We don’t need you any more)
You made a good meal-(We don’t need you any more)
Now how do you feel-(We don’t need you any more)
To be shit out our ass
And thrown in the cold like a piece of trash
We’re sorry
You’ll just have to leave
Unemployment runs out after just six weeks
How does it feel to be a budget cut?
You’re snipped
You no longer exist
Your number’s been purged from our central computer
So we can rig the facts
And sweep you under the rug
See our chart? Unemployment’s going down
If that ruins your life that’s your problem
Soup is Good Food, Etc.
We’re sorry
We hate to interrupt
But it’s against the law to jump off this bridge
You’ll just have to kill yourself somewhere else
A tourist might see you
And we wouldn’t want that
I’m just doing my job, you know
So say uncle
And we’ll take you to the mental health zoo
Force feed you mind-melting chemicals
Til even the outside world looks great
In hi-tech science research labs
It costs too much to bury all the dead
The mutilated disease-injected
Surplus rats who can’t be used anymore
So they’re dumped (with no minister present)
In a spiraling corkscrew dispose-all unit
Ground into sludge and flushed away
Aw geez
Soup is good food
You made a good meal, etc:.
We know how much you’d like to die
We joke about it on our coffee breaks
But we’re paid to force you to have a nice day
In the wonderful world we made just for you
“Poor Rats”, we human rodents chuckle
At least we get a dignified cremation
At yet
At 6:00 tomorrow morning
It’s time to get up and go to work
To celebrate that marriage, I offer a video tribute to scissoring:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPhMTdQwiao
It’s no use, he completely blocks out the reasons for expensive real estate and expensive taxes in nj (to be fair, majority of nj citizens are on the same boat as fast Eddie with their inability to understand why the taxes are so high). The stats say how wealthy northern nj is, but he continues to think they are muppets. Why, I don’t know. I tried to explain it to him many times, but he refuses to listen and makes excuses stating this is not a “normal market”. You can bring the horse to the river, but you can’t make it drink.
Statler Waldorf says:
April 29, 2015 at 4:07 pm
Sounds like a simple math problem, perhaps grim has the actual data. How many $600K houses are currently for sale in NJ? How many NJ residents can “afford” the mortgage on a $600K house? I’m guessing the number of potential buyers is at least 50X the number of houses listed for sale.
The NJ state population is 9 million and “9.7 percent of Garden State residents have an income of more than $200,000″
http://nj1015.com/study-nj-among-wealthiest-states
——-
“So, we pay the highest property taxes and house prices are apparently rising but no one has yet to explain how this is possible when wages have been flat for 15 years. I’ve asked for a plausible explanation and still haven’t seen one.”
51- And they question what’s wrong with the economy. Those figures make for an efficient economy!!
“In fact, the richest one percent of Americans are capturing 95 percent of growth since the recession, while the bottom 90 percent are getting poorer. New Jersey tied Washington D.C. for the top spot in the country for wealth.”
Read More: Study: NJ among wealthiest states | http://nj1015.com/study-nj-among-wealthiest-states/?trackback=tsmclip
Might not happen next year, but that guy is right. When the rates rise, it will lead to higher prices. A rise in rates will not only bring on riskier bets aka lower lending standards to chase that profit, which will drive up the price with more competition by bringing in more buyers to the game. Also, a rise in rates means the economy is heating up. Once again, this will put more money in people’s pockets and allow them to compete and raise the price.
Bystander says:
April 29, 2015 at 2:25 pm
Geez, guy next to me taking real estate advice from MetLife insurance salesman. “Rate hike is imminent. Buy now”, “House values will rise when rates go up. I know it seems counterintutive”. “Rent your condo out and it will pay your mortgage”. “Banks are strict on lending now bc rates are so low. When rates rise, liquidity will flood residential real estate causing values to rise. Next year, it will happen”
What a load of BS. This guy should run away now..
50. I am convinced that you did ride that short bus to school.
53- the thing is, I don’t see it happening till 2017 at the earliest. Still waiting on the geniuses at the top to realize they need to trickle down some money to get this economy going. Demand for investment in new technology is not going to come from empty pockets.
The author of the lead article should go see for himself what the 288 dollars a year gets you in that shi!hole of a location before making comparisons to Bergen County. Yes, it’s 288 dollars, but would I live there? I can also live off the govt in some hellish ghetto for free in nj, but would I want to waste my only life living like that?
I’m not speaking only for jersey, but for the whole country. Any nice house located in a nice neighborhood will have property taxes of 10,000 or more.
I don’t think anyone is disputing the presence of wealth in NJ or the fact that it will be comparatively more expensive than the rest of the country. It’s just that based on that 9.7% do 800k houses represent the top 10% of housing in NJ? The market is distorted, the trajectory of 2010 is the reality, what we are seeing now is purely credit driven. Once the credit tightens up or we see the next economic collapse, the party is over. NJ due to proximity to the wall street machine is living and dying on credit float and as Gary keeps pointing out the muppets who are over leveraging themselves are typically not high roller investment bankers but working stiffs in associated industries. Alpine is going nowhere, saddle river ditto, same goes for short hills, but the 600k-1.5m market is in a lot of trouble. There are cracks already showing.
10k, how quaint, the houses I keep looking at are 25k-40k, my sister in morris county is paying almost 20k on a house that’s not even worth a million.
You can say a good many things, including that you disagree with the comment. But to call him “a disgrace” is unreasonable, and by my understanding…..LITERALLY wrong.
anon (the one good) says:
April 29, 2015 at 2:14 pm
for many reasons, that man is a disgrace
APRIL 28, 2015
Justice Scalia’s Shameful Joke
BY JEFFREY TOOB
“There was a shocking, ugly moment during the argument of Obergefell v. Hodges, the same-sex marriage case, in the Supreme Court on Tuesday. Right after Mary Bonauto, the lawyer challenging marriage bans in several states, completed her argument, a spectator rose from a back row and started screaming, “If you support gay marriage, you will burn in Hell!” As the man yelled, “It’s an abomination!,” guards carried him from the courtroom.
That wasn’t the ugly part, though. In the quiet moment after the man was removed, as his shouts vanished into the hallway, Justice Antonin Scalia filled the silence with a quip. “It was rather refreshing, actually,” he said.
#57 [jcer]
I agree, to a point. Lotta variables, though.
English street artist convinces the government to fix potholes….JJ style.
http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/this-obscene-street-artist-found-a-way-to-make-govt-fix-potholes-nsfw/
I’ll gladly, and correctly, call him a disgrace … but not for that comment (only people that “enjoy” politics would care). Evidence of his being a disgrace = the majority of his life’s work.
[granted, most judges are the same]
Comrade NDP,
I’ve decided to fight it (court date is around two weeks from now).
Thanks for the advice. IF it’s dismissed have Grim give you my personal e-mail as I’ll owe you.
57. No.
#32 [ccb223]
Some of my ‘ol stompin’ grounds. There’s plus’ and BIG minus’ there. At first glance it looks like a cheap piece of paradise… But hey, some people LOVE it and it is the CLEANEST lake and lakeside community in NJ.
If the Supreme Court rules in favor of Gay Marriage…what reason would married gay couples have to vote Democrat in local elections?
Wildstein to plead guilty?
Anybody here know where I can get a wedding cake with two chicks and a strap-on ornament?
I pass this every day coming off 15X
http://www.northjersey.com/news/goya-opens-new-headquarters-built-with-help-of-new-jersey-tax-break-1.1321234
The only disgrace on the SCOTUS bench is Thomas.
Scalia, is smart, funny, misguided and wrong most of the time.
“Three-quarters of these kids have the academic credentials, and zip-all else to bring to the table,” they say. “I need a kid with some guts and confidence. Where are the kids who mowed lawns? I want the kid who knows how real life works.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/liz-ryan/college-grads-jobs_b_1766297.html
The lines at this place have been nuts, I tried it tonight and its worth the wait.
http://www.northjersey.com/news/a-bite-of-nostalgia-as-callahan-s-debuts-norwood-store-1.1319291
Callahans is old school jersey hot dogs
Gluteus (71)-
That trumps you, who are turgid, pedantic and wrong 100% of the time.
“Scalia, is smart, funny, misguided and wrong most of the time.”
non c’era più. ‘Ora, il diavolo è in esso, mormorò Pancks,running saucony, tracciando una linea in mano con il dito goffo,’ se questo mi è neanche in un angolo qui! Cosa voglio qui? Che cosa è dietro di me? Portò il dito lentamente fino al polso, e intorno al polso, e colpito a guardare il dorso della mano per quello che era dietro di lui. ‘E’ male? chiese la piccola Dorrit, sorridente. ‘Deuce un po’! ha detto Pancks. ‘Che cosa ne pensi il suo valore? ‘Dovrei chiede