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Sorry I didn’t open this earlier. We’ve been in crisis mode all week at work.
jb
I think alot of these sellers are getting into crisis mode.
Its going to be a long cold winter for them.
SAS
I just saw an ad on craigslist for the house we want. They haven’t advertised for it in almost a month but they haven’t lowered the price. I don’t know what they’re thinking.
“I don’t know what they’re thinking.”
They’re thinking they’ll party like it’s 2005.
Early in 2006, there were still a few Greater Fools out there, making offers, and becoming “owners” (bagholders).
But now it’s dead, dead, dead. Near me we’ve got 200 realtors chasing 2-3 closings in the last few months.
I was at a couple of Open Houses last weekend. I saw something surprising. There was this agent who was holding a Buyer’s Open house. She was not the listing agent but as people come to see the house she was planning to help them by being their buyer’s agent.
Looks like agents are not getting any customers – apart from selling houses they are hunting for buyers now.
Work? Grim, you have another job besides this?
“But now that the federal regulations have been adopted, fewer borrowers will probably choose exotic mortgages, said Howard Glaser…”
Mr. Glaser has it wrong. People weren’t so much choosing exotic mortgages as being chosen for them. Any fool the banks and brokers could get to sign onto one of these hideous beasts they did. The fact that the person signing was clearly an idiot and couldn’t afford to pay it back didn’t bother them for one second.
James – any inventory updates, I’ve noticed a drastic reduction in inventory in some areas. Do you know if this is sales driven or sellers pulling stuff off the market?
Thx
Inventory in the towns I have been tracking have remained steady for months. Numbers are approximately 2 times the amount in the Spring.
I haven’t noticed a drastic reduction anywhere. Are you talking about inventory on a town level?
GSMLS
12/07 – 12,316
2/15 – 12,376
4/12 – 14,812
6/7 – 17,708
8/16 – 18,738
10/11 – 19,084
NJMLS
12/07 – 5,717
2/15 – 5,960
4/12 – 7,259
6/7 – 8,725
8/16 – 9,228
10/11 – 9,261
MLSGuide
12/07 – 1,807
2/15 – 2,054
4/12 – 2,225
6/7 – 2,568
8/16 – 2,646
10/11 – 2,787
On the contrary i’m seeing a marked increase in inventory ( GSMLS + FSBO ) in the last one month.
I’m also seeing a few 15% drops over 2005-early 2006 comps (not original list price). However they are still not selling! My opinion they are priced too high.
Finally i don’t think there are very many qualified buyers on the sidelines. Look around, how many buyers are waiting for a price drop with loads of cash to pay 20% down Vs those who cannot afford inflated prices without creative financing?
Any update on the Fed guidelines to banks on exotic mortgages? Have application approval rates changed?
GSMLS
12/07 – 12,316
2/15 – 12,376
4/12 – 14,812
6/7 – 17,708
8/16 – 18,738
10/11 – 19,084
Jim
What figures are these? just sfh,th and condo
or certain counties?
Thanks
KL
Lindsey,
You’re right about the toxic loans.I feel the % will increase. With today’s prices, this is the only option that a mortgage broker shows them. Two reasons, the broker makes more and they know that is the only way to qualify the buyer. A buyer has to be informed before they sit down with these thieves. It has gotten to the point where buyers are jusy looking at initial payments and ignoring the consequences. Like leasing a car, if the payment works do it.
I see that prices are all over the place. From the folks that are pricing it at 2005 prices + 10% to folks that have come down 30% I still go to open houses and make appts to see houses. The rhetoric is the same as it was two years ago; buy now because THIS house will be more next year. Other agents make a small mention of the bubble and say it is just a temporary bump in prices soooo, you should buy now before EVERYBODY finds out it was just a temporary bump and we start ramping up prices again.
Mention of the largest percentage drop in eleven years and the second largest in recorded history is hardly news any more. Good luck finding many articles about it in the mainstream media. On the contrary, the media is now serving as a mouth piece for the Fed and builders who have billions at stake if the general public BELIEVES there is a housing issue. The protraction of the inevitable will make it worse for the sellers who should sever this alligator that is eating their finances up. Some are taking to pulling out of the market in hopes that the spring will make for better sales, that would be the second largest investment mistake they ever made.
GSMLS is closing in on 32,700. i believe we’ll see 33k shortly. the only properties i’m seeing sell right now are those priced lower than their competition and/or with significant upgrades. if people are going to buy in this market they want to feel like they’re getting a deal in relation to the competition. a bit shortsighted but that’s the logic.
be interesting to see when the inventory starts racheting up for the spring season. typically it starts right after the super bowl. if current inventory isn’t brought down substantially there’s going to be a serious glut of homes for sale which will finally bring the bigger price adjustments that will eventually come.
“GSMLS is closing in on 32,700.”
Keep in mind this number includes vacant land, commercial/industrial and business properties.
——
From MarketWatch:
Home builders up ante to lure buyers
BOSTON (MarketWatch) — Large home builders are dangling out more incentives to reluctant buyers as the roof caves in on the U.S. housing market. To entice customers, companies are serving up deals that include a free pool, a fancy kitchen or even a new car. But real-estate brokers say all buyers want is a cheaper house.
More at the link above, Rich
Richard,
You are right about the inventory. Kind of like a crash on the GSP, summer holiday weekend, the traffic back up for miles and miles. Better yet, like a backed up septic tank, they are deep in piles of do-do.
Jim,
Was your old blog hijacked or something?
Healthy economy???????
“For the President to proclaim that the U.S. economy is healthy despite the record trade deficit is like a doctor declaring a patient healthy while ignoring the basketball sized tumor growing in his intestines.”
“The combination of enormous budget and trade deficits reflects a terminally ill American economy. Both the public and private sectors borrow to consume, while the domestic economy lacks the savings or productive capacity necessary to support either. Foreign savers/producers sacrifice their own desires merely to indulge ours, artificially strengthening an otherwise dying economy. However, my guess is that before the end of the Bush term, foreigners will finally pull the plug.”
http://www.kitco.com/ind/Schiff/oct132006.html
American Dream or a skunk problem???
Saw question this on marketwatch;
I own a house in Michigan (barely). The mortgage principal is $149,900. It appraised at $155,000 last year before the bottom fell out of housing market. I currently have a good 5.5%, fixed 30-year loan. I’m in year three. Problem is, I don’t want to bring cash to close. House is listed at $169,900. I am willing to go down to $164,900, but after paying broker $10,000 commission — and many buyers agents want 4% — I’m going to have to pay cash which I don’t have.
I’ve had horrible luck with renters. I had what turned out to be an unlicensed property manager. Tenants complained that there were skunks on property (which property manager didn’t know how to handle) and sued me in court for $2,000. Surprisingly, they won, even though I took care of skunks (Michigan is apparently liberal.) I don’t live in town. I was hoping to keep the property as a long-term house for my eventual retirement (which I can’t afford to do). I’m currently 48 with no pension.
he HOPED to keep the property but he can’t so he’s HOPING to get a minimum of $164,900 for it. when you start hoping for outcomes you’ve left the realm of reality and entered the land of prayers and wishes. we’ll see many more living in and out of each.
BC Bob, that author has an agenda, no?
From his letter you linked to on the gold-seller website:
“Make sure to get rid of your dollars before they do. Get started by downloading my new, must-read research report…”
“The combination of enormous budget and trade deficits reflects a terminally ill American economy.”
Terminally ill?
What does this mean? The US economy is about to die? An $11.7 trillion economy is about to go tits-up?
Sorry, I don’t think so. I suspect few who apply even a small amount of critical thinking will either.
Here’s my personal vote for one sign of a market top: the 2/1 Cape in a good NJ suburb asking $500K+. Even the GFs among us have thrown in the towel and walked away. I’ve watched these and larger 3/2s drift down into the $450+ range in the last six weeks, and they’re still not moving.
“Irrational exuberance” is slowly giving way to more rational expectations. I’m not sure at what point these so-called “starters” become a buy, but we’re not there yet. In general, I don’t yet see signs of panic, although I think the occasional deal can be made by an astute buyer, especially if a seller is caught with a job transfer, divorce, etc.
Thanks to blogs like this that help to educate, the market is more transparent and buyers more informed. You can generally find when a property was last sold and for how much. Asking prices are all over the map, from 292% in six years for one new listing, to 87% in five. Sometime next year we may actually start to see some bargains, but I’m not banking on it.
ts
KL,
Those are the numbers from the weekly inventory update. SFH, Condo, Coop for Bergen, Essex, Hudson, Passaic, Morris, Somerset, Sussex, Union and Warren counties.
jb
does anyone konw when the nest Otteau report will be out?
The Otteau Report is usually released towards the end of the month.
jb
Hmm just found something interesting:
house bought in 2000 for 245k. On the market now for 499K. SO the seller expects to get paid around 42K/year (i substructed 65 comission) for BAsically Renting a house from the bank…
May be I should quit my job and get 3 houses – that will double my salary.
Starter homes in NJ will sart moving at aroung 230-250K mark – the national average for all houses.
6% thaat is
Also this paper:
http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?dist=newsfinder&siteid=mktw&guid=%7B78A51A2F-D918-44A3-9688-2E75A7E862FB%7D
(do not know how to make the link small)
the very first sentence on the second page:
“In its third-quarter 10-Q filed Oct. 10, Lennar said gross margins on home sales dropped to 18.7% in the quarter from 26.3% a year earlier, largely due to incentives.”
Now tell me if gross (profit I assume) Margins of 26.3% is normal??? I(f my company would put 26% that would be like moon flling down from the sky (last year it was 12% and it was the best year in about 25 years un history). We are producttion company closely collaorating with durable goods producers – cars. Well most Japaneese car companies put profits in 8% last year (what happened to american we all know).
25% profit margin would mean doubling the price in 4 years and thats what pretty much happened fron year 2000 to 2005.
So here you have it – some people got very rich I guess. I guess I feel left out since I was in school those years – not really making money, mostly opposite.
I’ve been reading this blog for awhile. First as a potential buyer and now as a recent homeowner.
While there is alot of good advice here, I dont believe in the dont buy at any cost philosophy. If you wait to long for the bottom of the market you might miss it. There are some really good deals starting to emerge and potential buyers might want to start seeing what’s out there if they can afford it. I got a good deal of about 10% off list for a home in pristine condition less than 30 minutes from midtown manhattan. Sellers are worrying and this will work to your benefit.
Hi,
I am looking to buy a home in Maplewood, NJ and have found a couple homes I’m interested in placing an offer on. Can someone direct me to a website (other than Zillow.com) that provides historic sales price for homes based on address? I’m trying to find out if I can see when and what these homes sold for last.
thanks!
Lina – try domania.com. Other than that go through the tax records, Grim has a link on the main page.
MM – Hope it works out for you. Was it still a good deal if the comps next year are for 10% less than you paid?
Some of you bloggers are to ready to pounce on a small shift in the market. We are no where near the bottom. Big mistake to buy at least for next 3 years. Last bust I think took at least 5-8 years to play out. But hey, its your money, not mine. ;)
SAS
Hey Grim,
Someone posted some nonsense electronics stuff on the old website….I think it prevents bloggers from getting to the new website. See if you can fix this situation. I wonder if someone did this just to prevent this blog from being effective?
James – It was a few towns. I guess isolated one-offs. Thx for the data.
I’ll have the new Price Reduced and Lowball data posted tomorrow, make sure you check back!
jb
My only suggestion for those who must buy now, at any cost, is to wait until the late-November to mid-January timeframe. That period traditionally sees the lowest level of contracts for the year. As a buyer, you’ll have more bargaining power than at any other point during the year.
That said, housing cycles typically play out in years, not months.
jb
Lina,
ditech has a site at ditech.homepricemonitor.com
you can check by town,street,or individual address going back to 1999.great site
HEY GRIM,
See my post above about fixing the link from the other website
Lina
Give me some specific addresses or mls#’s I will research for you.
KL
seeing more smug folks trying to rent out the houses they can’t sell due to greater fools not paying now laughable asking prices anymore. interesting to see how these people if they can find renters like being landlords. i think many of them are in for a rude shock.
MM, best of luck. 10% off a 100-year bubble high? I’ll pass.
http://graphics10.nytimes.com/images/2006/08/26/weekinreview/27leon_graph2.large.gif
Check out GSMLS.com and select “Rental” instead of “Purchase” in the town’s you’re looking.
Many Greedy Grubbers are ofering their ‘for sale’ houses up for rent, probably to ride things out until the market ‘recovers’ next year.
Heh, should be a ton of inventory next year, putting further pressure on prices.
new (to me) flipper tactic that i have seen…
the flipper creates an LLC for each property they will flip. If the whole project goes belly up the flipper’s private assets are not in any trouble. one particular house i looked at turned this up when i looked at the tax records. i would think they (the flipper) would see this property foreclosed or claim bankruptcy on the LLC before they sold it at a lost. Any thoughts out there? I am wondering what leverage the buyer would have in a situation like this.
Richard,
Yes, I too have seem alot of sellers playing landlord lately. They can’t sell now, so they are just “going to rent it out”, until the market picks up. If this momentum picks up, it will just lower rents, and these guys will never, ever sell their house. Sellers are getting stuck now, but still the panic has not really set in for the majority. Most sellers think its still the RE haydays….fools.
SAS
I forgot to add, these sellers can’t get renters either.
SAS
“‘I really don’t think we’ll be able to sell and get any sort of return,’ Truman says. ‘I regret buying the house. It was really a blunder.’”
“Perspective is easily regained now that we’re on the other side of the pop, the bust, the not-so-gentle thud. When we were living through what was unquestionably the biggest borrowing frenzy in history, homeownership shook off its staid status as the American dream and reemerged as the American joy ride. Every sale down the block, every bidding war, every visit to zillow.com confirmed that we were rich and getting richer.”
“Practicality was almost illogical. Though we skimmed off layer after layer of equity to upgrade our kitchens or pay down our credit cards, our home values magically rose as if to compensate within the same year, sometimes within months.”
“But with buyers back in control and perspective restored, most of homeowners aren’t feeling quite so wealthy anymore. As our equity levels recede, some of us, like Truman, are feeling foolish that we stretched our finances so thin. And clearly, with the midyear foreclosure rate up more than 60 percent over last year, some of us are downright devastated.”
“Lynne Nadorff has never touched her home equity but is second-guessing some of the improvements she made on the two-family Colonial she bought in downtown Lenox in 2002. After initially listing her house in July for $595,000, Nadorff has since reluctantly dropped the price to $495,000.”
“‘Maybe it would have worked better if I hadn’t put so much into it,’ she says of her investment. Knowing she won’t get out what she put in is hard to take. ‘It’s my retirement; it’s my nest egg; it’s everything.’”
Take a look at the other side of the bubble. It ain’t going to be pretty. Maybe realtors should wear flack jackets as their customers they sold houses to on a guarantee crash and burn.
This was on wsj.com, but I posted it in an older thread. I don’t know if it was posted somewhere. It’s short enough to copy and paste though.
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20061012-710598.html?mod=hps_us_my_industries
FTC Takes Action Against 7 Real Estate Listing Services
DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
October 12, 2006 11:44 a.m.
By Mark H. Anderson
Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
WASHINGTON (Dow Jones)–The Federal Trade Commission on Thursday announced enforcement actions against seven real estate property listing services in six states, claiming the groups froze out their discount rivals.
The enforcement actions accuse the listing services of illegally restraining competition by denying home sellers who use discount brokerage services access to regional real estate listings controlled by major real estate companies. The FTC said that while the agency was announcing actions targeted at regional brokerage practices, it wants the national real estate industry to alter anticompetitive practices regarding the listing services.
“The rules these brokers made drove up costs and reduced choice for consumers, and they violated federal law,” said FTC Competition Director Jeffrey Schmidt, who added he wants to see nationwide industry steps on listing services. “The problem is the traditional brokerages trying to find ways to disadvantage new competition.”
The FTC said it reached consent agreements with real estate brokerage services in Colorado, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Virginia and Wisconsin. Two additional real estate groups in Detroit were also charged but didn’t settle with the agency.
The enforcement action seeks to level the playing field between traditional full-service real estate brokerages and a growing field of discounters, some based on the Internet, that offer more limited real estate services and typically charge lower prices.
The FTC said most of the brokerages charged Thursday refused to allow houses listed with discount services on regional multiple listing services from being transmitted to popular Internet house sales Web sites. One of the real estate groups blocked discount house listings from inclusion on the multiple listing services.
The consent decrees require the real estate groups to halt anticompetitive practices with their multiple listing services. The complaints against the two Detroit groups will go before an administrative law judge to resolve the charges.
-By Mark H. Anderson, Dow Jones Newswires; 202-862-9254; mark.anderson@dowjones.com
‘I regret buying the house. It was really a blunder.’”
REMEMBER THIS PHRASE. THIS WILL BE REPEATED OVER AND VOER AGAIN ACROSS AMERICA ESPECIALLY IN THE MOST BUBBLY MAKRETS.
Anyone buying at a 10% discount is a fool. The biggest bubble in history is not going to be corrected in 1 year or a 10% drop. The biggest bubble will be followed by the baddest drop!! Buy Now at 10% discount and be underwater 15% by next spring.
KEEP DREAMING GRUBBING SELLERS THAT HOUSING WILL PICK UP THIS SPRING. YOU ARE IN FOR A RUDE AWAKENING. NO MORE FOOLS LEFT.
“Anyone buying at a 10% discount is a fool”
unless you really have to buy NOW, this statement I believe to be quite true. 10% discount doesnt even scratch the surface of where we will be in say Jan 2008. If you HAVE to buy soon try to wait a bit and this winter (Jan 2007) will surely bring discounts greater than 10%. It is only the begining.
Ditto to those noticing the sudden rise in properties for rent, and they are houses, not apts. or townhouses.
Driving around this weekend on Somerset Counties “Historical Tour” (very interesting by the way) I am seeing dozens and dozens of SFH’s with For Rent signs outside. Some of them have been that way for months, but more and more are cropping up every day and it is really starting to be noticible, even to those who are not specifically looking for it.
the rental market is supposedly hot though. At least in the jersey city area. Why are they not renting them out easily? Is it that these homes are looking for ridiculous rents to pay the ridiculous mortgage.
If anyone is looking for a rental in Northern NJ, let me know. 3br/2ba.
jb
bubbletuner,
I’m aware of the links on the old blog. The links have to do with a side business:
AntiCost
jb
Fantastic piece in the Boston Globe today..
The homeowner’s day of reckoning
As property values soared, we got hooked on the idea of using our house as a bank, pulling out blocks of equity to pay for renovations, vacations, and more. Now, will the softer real estate market cost some of us our homes, our shirts, even our retirement?
Great article.
“Like many other Iranian immigrants she knows who have invested heavily in Boston-area real estate, she says, “I happen to be a risk taker.”
She forgot to add delusional.
From the Boston Globe article:
“People have gotten used to relatively large gains in values,” not only in real estate but in the stock market, says Mark Zandi, chief economist Moody’s economy.com. But, he warns, “this period of growth is unlikely be repeated again in our lifetimes. It’s important that people adjust their expectations.“
The 100-year bubble peak is over Greedy Grubbers.
To Unrealtor, re your comment at 12:20 on 10/14
I think most people here know who Peter Shiff is and what his agenda is. Just like everyone else, he is in the game to make money.
I think he does it fairly honestly, and I’ve developed a fair amount of trust in his analysis, because he backs his work up with data and the conclusions he reaches make sense.
He’s not making up the stuff about deficits, both federal and trade, and that stuff has to be accounted for. He’s a bit more alarmist than Stephen Roach or Warren Buffet, but their essentially playing the same tune.
The fact that the goldbugs agree with him and view his opinions as bolstering their position doesn’t bother me one bit. I think there are other decisions you can make using the same information, but to each his own.
Regarding Peter Schiff,
Of course he is seeking to increase his circulation. Everybody has an agenda, whether it is the NAR,your local realtor,brokerage analysts, politicians, etc…
I don’t agree with everything he says, but he makes some very valid points. The whole system is built on debt, borrow and spend, from Washington to Trenton to the homeowner. How long can this charade go on before the house of cards collapses???
Our govt throws out the #’s, regarding our deficit, that aren’t even close to reality. You talk about creative accounting, it makes Enron’s accounting look like a walk in the park.
I don’t agree that our economy is terminally ill. However, I do feel that that is is the direction we are heading if structural/concrete changes do not occur. What % of our economy, over the last 5 years was housing related??? What replaces this??? Inflate and spend??? What would happen if foreign holders of our debt called in the chips??? We are just a puppet with the strings being pulled by someone else. Do you think China is big buyers of our 10 year because they enjoy watching their currency conversion suffer?? If we are no longer greasing them what happens???? They may still invest here, but if we are not the main cog in their wheel, they will demand higher rates. What are the ramifications if they decide to diversify and gradually pull out???
Why is our dollar down 30-40% versus other currencies??? The world sees what we are ignoring. The cheerleaders on CNBC never mention this. They are breaking out the champagne because the Dow is at a new record. Only 10 of the Dow stocks are at new highs and we’re celebrating??? These multinationals, Dow, didn’t even have to increase market share,internationally, to increase profits. They received a 30-40% increase in profits since 2001 on the % of business that they do overseas, just with the decline of the dollar, gift wrapped!! Also, why doesn’t CNBC mention the nasdaq. Wasn’t the nasdaq the new world order back in the late 90’s/early 2000?? Now it’s irrevelant??
A complete adjustment must occur, it will be painful.We have to get back to being a nation of savers. I know this will be a cultural shock but what are the consequences if we don’t??? How long can we go on with a negative savings rate, household, and deficit spending, state and federal??? Are you happy that foreigners are have a 30-40% price advantage as compared to us, since 2001?? There is a tidal wave looming and it is starting with RE. Schiff has been right on the money with his RE call. Only time will tell whether he is right on the bigger picture.
Save money just buy and get rich according to the NAR folks. At least that’s what they were saying. Now no commish putting the pressure on and price declines are being mentioned.
I guess no paycheck does the trick. So sellers you are on the NAR hitlist. BAAAAAWAHAHAHHA
How does it feel having a Bullseyes on your forehead?
rhymingrealtor-
MLS: 2323840
Let me know if you find anything!
It isn’t surprising to see the one-sided analysis coming out of CNBC. Their analysis is tailored to their demographic: people with money.
It’s easy to cheer when you are not having to worry about basic survival. That kind of arrogance stinks, but the Donny Deutsch’s of the world can’t sell us on the hardships of putting food on the table, so why bother covering it as a big idea. Unless of course King’s comes up with a brillant scheme to sell food with a one year interest free loan, completely restructing our food delivery system.
Caveat Venditor
here’s a guy taking a bath in maplewood (mls #2320349). bought the house in june 2004 for $655k. on the market for $629k. even if he can sell at this price he takes a $26k haircut not including brokers fees. i believe this one will go lower before its over.
Wandered into an open house today, just to taunt the realtor.
I must have said “the market has tanked” about 6 or 7 times, and also worked into every sentence how the house was nice, but not for anywhere near the asking price.
RE: 2320349 in Maplewood
$13,500 in taxes on a $600K house? Why does anyone live in Maplewood with such absurdly high taxes for a mediocre town?
MLS# 2320349
Ouch.. Already been reduced from $684,900. If it sells at asking, seller is looking at a 50k+ loss..
jb
BC Bob,
I don’t see why the Iraninan lady in that article is necessarily delusional as you describe. The article says she bout a 4 unit multi-family unit for $1.3MM. So, $325K per unit. Although it is probable that she paid high given the market, we cannot really know this withougt more facts about the property.
Everything else the article states about her is fairly standard long term immigrant practice in this country. I have colleages at work whose Indian parents used such real estate practices as their main savings/investment/retirement vehicles while patiently working for “the man” in junior and middle technical and management positions their whole careers. On the flip side a generation later today, we see the children of such people all over wall street and other leading centers earning income that many, even here are clearly envious of (a-la $300 jeans guy), and the parents sitting on bubble inflated fortunes in real estate that even if cut the 30-40% as many hope for here will still represent fantastic returns from when they bought in the 60’s,70’s and 80’s.
So, maybe the Iranian bought at a “wrong” time. But, which of us really has enough information to make such arrogant statements as “delusional” without real information?
Lina
MLS: 2323840 – dom currently 20 – looked up history – does not show expired or withdrawn record indicates last sold in 1992 for 136,500
KL
Which commute is worse? Rt. 80 to Lincoln Tunnel, Rt. 80 to Holland Tunnel or Rt. 78 to Holland Tunnel? I am trying to determine which towns are better for my commute if driving in to the city from Morris County.
Rhyming,
That’s great, thanks. Would you happen to have the same details on 2321768?
Hardplace:Which commute is worse?
depends on what part of Manhattan your headed. If your in lower Manhattan, methinks it probably doesn’t matter which way you go. My experience working in mid-town has been 50 minutes from 287/80 to the Lincoln Tunnel, and it keeps getting longer and hairier.
lina,
2321768 listed 29 days started 375>349 now 325
no history sold last 1994 for 130,000
KL
Hardplace: Which commute is worse?
I would also say it depends on where in Morris County you are looking. If you are coming in from the east end (say Roxbury), you could probably tack on another 30-40 minutes as compard to the west end (say Parsippany). Route 80 is a complete nightmare in Morris county.