Weekend Open Discussion Part II

Posted on December 15, 2007 by grim

Now Open, Part II!

Prior weekend thread closed due to comment overflow.

This entry was posted in General. Bookmark the permalink.

198 Responses to Weekend Open Discussion Part II

lisoosh says:

December 15, 2007 at 6:42 pm

101- You’re right. You are not unAmerican. You are anti-American family.
I have never heard one word out of your mouth to suggest you have any interest in the well being of one single citizen of this country apart from yourself, or actually your wallet.

And you are wrong. There are more than a few people here who make under 100K a year, with one income and young families, for whom the ONLY concern is in fact basic housing – a simple clean solid house with a yard for the kids and a safe neighbourhood. For many here the choice is wait for prices to become affordable or uproot their families and move to another part of the country – and away from grandparents, aunts uncles and other extended family members, breaking up their support structure in the meantime.

You are a nasty, selfish, self absorbed little person who doesn’t even have the guts to be honest about it.
Confused In NJ says:

December 15, 2007 at 6:42 pm

There were jumpers in 1929, but evidently gas ovens was the preferred method;

Few things are more personal than suicide. So if it seems unlikely that a person measures self-worth, using money as the yardstick, then please recall the high-profile suicides related to the 1929 stock market crash. To make the connection between central banking and the aforementioned stock market crash, a brilliant exposition was provided by Murray Rothbard in his masterful book America’s Great Depression. Dr. Rothbard points out that the Federal Reserve aggressively inflated the money supply during the 1920s. However:

The inflation of the 1920s was actually over by the end of 1928. The total money supply on December 31, 1928 was $73 billion. On June 29, 1929, it was $73.26 billion, a rise of only 0.7 percent per annum. Thus, the monetary inflation was virtually completed by the end of 1928. From that time onward, the money supply remained level, rising only negligibly. And therefore, from that time onward, a depression to adjust the economy was inevitable. Since few Americans were familiar with the “Austrian” theory of the trade cycle, few realized what was going to happen.

A great economy does not react instantaneously to change. Time, therefore, had to elapse before the end of the inflation could reveal the widespread malinvestments in the economy, before the capital goods industries showed themselves to be overextended, etc. The turning point occurred about July, and it was in July that the great depression began.

The stock market had been the most buoyant of all the markets—this in conformity with the theory that the boom generates particular overexpansion in the capital goods industries. For the stock market is the market in the prices of titles to capital. Riding on the wave of optimism generated by the boom and credit expansion, the stock market took several months after July to awaken to the realities of the downturn in business activity. But the awakening was inevitable, and in October the stock market crash made everyone realize that depression had truly arrived.

As certainly as central banking is capable of driving an economy into freefall, individuals can be driven to the ultimate breaking point by the catastrophe that is an economic depression. Thus, in many instances, financial ruin, suicide, and central banking can be directly linked.

Let’s examine this matter a bit further. Historian William K. Klingaman conveys in his book, 1929: The Year of the Great Crash, that—as related to the stock market crash— asphyxiation by gas was the most common method of committing suicide, yet there was considerable variety. He states:

The wife of a Long Island broker shot herself in the heart; a utilities executive in Rochester, New York, shut himself in his bathroom and opened a wall jet of illuminating gas; a St. Louis broker swallowed poison; a Philadelphia financier shot himself in his athletic club; a divorcee in Allentown, Pennsylvania, closed the doors and windows of her home and turned on a gas oven. In Milwaukee, one gentleman who took his own life left a note that read, “My body should go to science, my soul to Andrew W. Mellon, and sympathy to my creditors.”

While visiting New York, at the time of the great crash, Winston Churchill saw the broken body of a man who had jumped from a building and plunged fifteen stories to his death. Later, a notable suicide took place on Friday, November 8, 1929 when J.J. Riordan, president of the County Trust Company, took a pistol from a teller’s cage at his bank, went to his home in downtown Manhattan, and shot himself.

An institution capable of hurtling an economy into depression most certainly can be directly connected to the heinous and most personal act of suicide. This is yet one more reason to properly deem the Federal Reserve as “hazardous to humankind.”

Let there be no doubt that monetary mischief (i.e. inflation), as perpetrated by a central bank, does damage the human psyche. To be sure, the manipulation of money does transform a society’s view of sex (for the worse) and has lead countless poor souls to financial devastation, and sometimes, tragically, suicide. To connect the dots between sex, suicide, and central banking is, in itself, narrow yet evocative. Nevertheless, are there not broader implications?
pretorius says:

December 15, 2007 at 6:53 pm

Lisoosh,

The concentration of wealth in the New York metro today is unprecedented in human history.

If you want to live in this sea of prosperity and opportunity, then you must be prepared to pay massive $.
spam spam bacon spam says:

December 15, 2007 at 6:56 pm

Ann,

I know others have chimed in about moving kids after kindergarten …I have personal experience about moving as a school age kid and I’d like to chime in…

I moved 8 times in 12 school yrs.
My mother was a single parent doing her best to get us better housing each year. I mainly lived in Edison, so oddly, my education was right on track as obviously the syllabus was the same district wide…

Anyway, I always fit in, became a “expert” at making friends and really had no problems that way.

What I missed was a “history” with my friends… I didn’t have “memories” of years past with the same kids…

Why someone had a certain nickname or hated so-and-so because of an event years prior made me feel an outsider even when no one treated me that way.

Would it matter in kindergarten? I don’t know. But your issue struck a nerve w/ me because I distinctly remember, at a party in HS, everyone laughing about “Bones” getting hit in the head with a huge rock during recess waaaaay back in KG and getting the nickname because he shook off the assault that would have laid any other kid out cold…

my .10 (use for downpayment on house :)
mikeinwaiting says:

December 15, 2007 at 7:03 pm

pret The problem is the wealth & prosperity
is in the hands of a few.The majority of people who live & work here don’t share in it.They can’t afford to live here.Wealth is concentrated in the hands of the wealthy & everyone else is screwed is that what you envision.With out a strong middle class this country is doomed.
reinvestor101 says:

December 15, 2007 at 7:05 pm

Let me tell you something, I’m not about to powder you and give you a diaper change just because you want to act like a little baby. Another poster just told you that you can buy a house rather than wait around here in NJ. NJ is now an extension of Manhattan. Prices will remain at a premium versus other areas as it always has been. You can move to someplace that’s affordable so your family can be comfortable. But do you take that advice? Noooo. You want to moan about high prices and talk about people being anti-family. Nooo. You want to wait around hoping financial misforture befalls others just so you can buy a house; and you have the nerve to call me selfish and self absorbed.

You need to get off your azz, move some place that you can afford and get a house. Stop crying for Mr. Market to accomodate you.

lisoosh Says:
December 15th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
101- You’re right. You are not unAmerican. You are anti-American family.
I have never heard one word out of your mouth to suggest you have any interest in the well being of one single citizen of this country apart from yourself, or actually your wallet.

And you are wrong. There are more than a few people here who make under 100K a year, with one income and young families, for whom the ONLY concern is in fact basic housing – a simple clean solid house with a yard for the kids and a safe neighbourhood. For many here the choice is wait for prices to become affordable or uproot their families and move to another part of the country – and away from grandparents, aunts uncles and other extended family members, breaking up their support structure in the meantime.

You are a nasty, selfish, self absorbed little person who doesn’t even have the guts to be honest about it.
reinvestor101 says:

December 15, 2007 at 7:06 pm

Damn, I just posted something similar.

pretorius Says:
December 15th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
Lisoosh,

The concentration of wealth in the New York metro today is unprecedented in human history.

If you want to live in this sea of prosperity and opportunity, then you must be prepared to pay massive $.
pretorius says:

December 15, 2007 at 7:08 pm

Mikeinwaiting,

“Wealth is concentrated in the hands of the wealthy”

Who could disagree?

Bruce wrote a great line about this state:

“Down here it’s just winners and losers, and don’t get caught on the wrong side of that line.”

Make sure you’re on the right side of it.
3b says:

December 15, 2007 at 7:11 pm

#4 pret: Please stop with you silliness. Prices rose here in the NYC area just like in so many other areas of the country because it was a real estate bubble, just like last time.

Please resign from you position as the resident expert on all that is NYC.

You are not even from this area, please return to Red Wing Minn, or wherever you are from, or perhaps you can return to Europe and spread knowledge and create wealth.
pretorius says:

December 15, 2007 at 7:15 pm

3b,

I’ve live in Jerz (with a few short breaks) since I was 19. I’m an New Jersey OG.
3b says:

December 15, 2007 at 7:18 pm

#6 reinvestor: Have you not noticed prices are falling in NJ? Is that not why you are on this site crying for something to be done, crying for a hand out.
mikeinwaiting says:

December 15, 2007 at 7:27 pm

Pret So I get it now you are into a country where wealth is in the hands of a
few & screw the rest.This would bring about the demise of our country.Is your greed for wealth blinding you to this.I will not go into a long history lesson.Did you read some of the stats from posts today.I am no lefty by far but if this country loses the middle class it will not last that long &
then where will you be.Insurrection.
3b says:

December 15, 2007 at 7:29 pm

#11 pret: Well you must been asleep those years you were living here.

Nothing wromg with being optimistic, but being clueless is another.

I really do think you would have an incredibly difficult time surviving a resession.
3b says:

December 15, 2007 at 7:33 pm

#353 reinvestor: If prices are not falling, then why are you here yelling and screaming for a hand out?

Prices are falling, get used to it.
pretorius says:

December 15, 2007 at 7:34 pm

3b,

I survived the last recession when my net worth was zero.

My net worth cushion is a lot bigger today. So I should survive the next recession with a minimum of fuss.
3b says:

December 15, 2007 at 7:46 pm

#16 pret: We have been through this with you before.

1.That was a minor slow down, not a recession.

2. You had difficulty looking for your first job.

That is not surviving a recession. Obviously you need a few more years under your belt, before you can determine the differnece between the two. And dare I say a little humility.
pretorius says:

December 15, 2007 at 7:47 pm

Whoa! Home prices still rising in my neck of the woods.

Place next door just sold for 12% higher than 2005 price. I had a look during open house – no major upgrades.

It sold for 3% below asking.
chicagofinance says:

December 15, 2007 at 7:49 pm

OT: this weekend pair of threads is giving me the runs……….
3b says:

December 15, 2007 at 7:51 pm

http://www.nysun.com/article/65894
3b says:

December 15, 2007 at 7:56 pm

#18 pret: Don’t worry, if prices are dropping in Hoboken and Edgewater, I am sure Weehawken cannot be far behind.
pretorius says:

December 15, 2007 at 7:57 pm

3b,

Re-read posts 132 and 133 from earlier thread.

I think those figures could be the cause of chifi’s illness.

Or maybe chifi is suffering a severe case of hudsonhomepricus stillgoingupus.
Ann says:

December 15, 2007 at 8:16 pm

#4 spam and everyone else on the other thread who commented on our decision to jump in and buy right now.

I pored through the sales for our model this weekend in between bouts of nausea and I think we are doing alright. We’re getting the house for about 10% less than peak 2005, so around 2004 prices. We sold our townhouse for about that. The corporate relo is also helping out a lot by paying all of fees on our buy and our sell along with the move including the realtor (not that I don’t LOVE to give realtors my cash).

We also got the survey today and realized our yard is a lot bigger than we thought.

Yes, I agree about y’all about switching not being a big deal. I am being an overprotective mommy by not wanting to switch my kid’s school after K or 1st grade. Guilty as charged : )

We’ll see. Now that I’m on board, it will probably fall through for something other reason.
gary says:

December 15, 2007 at 8:21 pm

As far as the direction of prices in the NNJ/NYC area ,it still all remains to be seen. Yes, some prices have dropped but generally speaking, they’ve held up pretty strongly. I saved and printed listings sent to me from a realtor 18 months ago with a dozen or so listings in the Montvale/Park Ridge/Hillsdale area. The prices I see today are basically the same as these listings… very little difference in price.

As long as jobs hold up in this area, we may see just flat prices over the next few years. Now, everyone can say things are going to nose dive but I’m looking at these listings from 18 months ago and comparing them to today and again, I’m just stating what I see.
3b says:

December 15, 2007 at 8:25 pm

#22 pret: You are never gonna make it kid.
t c m says:

December 15, 2007 at 8:27 pm

#6 reinvestor-
“Prices will remain at a premium versus other areas as it always has been. ”

i don’t know that people here are saying that prices will not command a premium, but since ALL prices are falling, prices here are expected to fall even while maintaining a premium.
frank says:

December 15, 2007 at 8:28 pm

#19,
Citi will do major layoffs next month.
3b says:

December 15, 2007 at 8:34 pm

#24 gary As we have said time and again, it does not happen over night, and in the end no on can force sellers to drop their prices, but they are and will continue to.

Prices fell before they will and ar falling again. And all these listings are out there, and yet, where are the buyers.

We have the low interest rates we have the jobs, and yet, where are all the buyers?

And as far as jobs? Who know, but I certainly would not bet that all will remain fine in that area, and again we need to examine the quality of jobs.

And of course the radically changed lending/credit environment, indlation and all the rest. But in the end it sounds like nothing will convince you.

Too bad you have yourself wrapped in knots over this, because there is no need to, as it is all playing out as many knew it would.
syncmaster says:

December 15, 2007 at 8:41 pm

How can NJ be an extension of Manhattan when most Jersey residents do not work or shop or play in Manhattan?
gary says:

December 15, 2007 at 8:43 pm

3b,

lol! I’m not in knots and again, whatever I see in front of me is what convinces me. If I get listings tomorrow with prices that make my jaw drop, then I’ll know. Until then, nothing much has changed. I think that’s as straight forward as one could get. The jobs are strong, investments in multinationals are and will continue to do nicely and not one person I know is hurting.

By the way, can you guys access this link, it shows median income in Bergen County:

http://www.propertyshark.com/mason/Maps/?map=nj_bergen&x=0.639093566311092&y=0.254409441209093&zoom=2&basemap=popincome&star=1&report=1
frank says:

December 15, 2007 at 8:53 pm

Manhattan Market Remains Stable

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/16/realestate/16deal2.html?_r=1&ref=realestate&oref=slogin
BC Bob says:

December 15, 2007 at 8:54 pm

“Bruce wrote a great line about this state:”

“Down here it’s just winners and losers, and don’t get caught on the wrong side of that line.”

Pre,

Did a turnip truck drop you off in NYC?

Why don’t you do a little research before you tell us what Bruce is signing about. If Bruce read your interpretation he would laugh/cry. He does not have one song in his collection that describes the state in that manner. If you must quote The Boss, please do him justice.
lisoosh says:

December 15, 2007 at 8:55 pm

101 – You are neither consistent nor coherent so this is seriously wasting my time.
WHO is moaning? YOU are the one begging the government to rig the market to save your behind. YOU are the one looking for price fixing to rescue you from your easy money scheme. YOU are the one calling people communists and climbing the flagpole.
If you were a legitimate and competent investor you would own income producing properties and wouldn’t be in the frantic panic you are in now.
Me? I took my chances and bet the market would fall. I resisted the temptation to follow the herd and buy 2004-2007. Now prices are dropping. I rolled the dice, took my chances…. and it looks like I won. It took its sweet time but Mr. Market is doing just what Mr. Market is supposed to do – punish the foolish.
WHO is moaning? WHO needs a diaper change? Well, I’m not sh*tting myself, but it sure sounds like you are.
BC Bob says:

December 15, 2007 at 8:58 pm

“I survived the last recession when my net worth was zero.”

Pre,

The 6 month dump and pump period? That’s your definition of a recession?
frank says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:02 pm

How can prices in Manhattan remain stable when all around things are collapsing?
Clotpoll says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:04 pm

mikey (12)-

“I am no lefty by far but if this country loses the middle class it will not last that long & then where will you be. Insurrection.”

And everybody here thinks I’m joking when I start talking about my arms cache and broken grenade launcher.

OT…anybody here know how to fix a grenade launcher?
Clotpoll says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:06 pm

3b (13)-

“I really do think you would have an incredibly difficult time surviving a resession.”

He’d be on the first tramp steamer back to S. Africa. Probably skate on his bills, to boot.
BC Bob says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:06 pm

“Prices will remain at a premium versus other areas as it always has been. ”

The premium is of no consequence. No bear is arguing that. It’s the spread.
pretorius says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:08 pm

Clotpoll,

My credentials qualify me for Canada and Australia easily.

But it is a lot easier to create wealth in this country. That is one of the reasons why I am here.
BC Bob says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:10 pm

How can prices in Manhattan remain stable when all around things are collapsing?

Simple, it’s 50% off in other currencies. I would be buying in London right now, if a 1M[BP] condo cost 500K[US]. Not a tough decision when you pick up NY RE for .50 on the dollar.
Clotpoll says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:12 pm

pret (38)-

“My credentials qualify me for Canada and Australia easily.”

Yeah, but they extradite.
John says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:12 pm

All that talk about jumpers reminds me of when I was ten, a lady down the block took a six story dive head first no hands out, sounded like a bag of wet laundry hitting the street at sixty miles an hour, it yanked her head off and it was sitting on her back, wicked cool pool of blood with a clear rim around, much better than the black monday dive or russian bond crises dive.

Nasty old landlord mopped up the puddle with an old mop right in front of everyone, the body is really nearly all liquid, half of her went into that old bucket.
Clotpoll says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:15 pm

John (41)-

Thanks for that happy interlude.
lisoosh says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:15 pm

Pret – There is LOTS of serious money in this area. Also plenty of illusion and fools gold. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that.
If I thought that fundementals supported the ridiculous run up in prices I would have moved from the area long ago. I don’t consider Hampton or Greenwich mansions or 12 room apartments overlooking Central Park to be in my league so I don’t consider them. If New Jersey had the basis to be equally unaffordable and unattainable, I certainly wouldn’t be hanging around. Lots of traffic the weather sucks and its overly commercial. I’ve emigrated 5 times in my lifetime, moved plenty of times, my family all live abroad. The only thing keeping me here is the airport, sheer exhaustion and the bubble.

Yes the bubble. Because when I looked at other habitable areas, the bubble was everywhere – Seattle, Portland, all of California, Boston, Providence, the entire United Kingdom and even the parts of the Middle East to which I have residency. Everywhere. Didn’t really make a difference where I considered moving, prices completely overshot incomes and all other fundementals. A global credit bubble. So why the h*ll would I uproot my family, look for new jobs and start from scratch somewhere else when there was no appreciable benefit. And I won’t move to run from something. If I choose to move it will be because I want to, because another area offers me something I want.

Keep believing that the New York area is immune, protected from the real world and market forces, SPECIAL. This area is different, this time is different, you are different. You’re young, and every young person should have the excitement of experiencing a time in their lives when it appears they are charmed. It makes for good memories.
You will probably need those good memories.
Clotpoll says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:17 pm

pret (38)-

“My credentials qualify me for Canada and Australia easily.”

Wow! And Canadians and Australians both so warmly receive blowhards with an overinflated sense of self-worth.
lisoosh says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:20 pm

Clotpoll Says:

“OT…anybody here know how to fix a grenade launcher?”

Hubby did his 3.5 years in the Israeli special forces. I think he can. Seriously.
If not, his old army buddy lives down the street, his speciality was rocket launchers. I assume they are close enough, although he is a bit of a klutz so you might want to supervise.
lisoosh says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:24 pm

BC Bob Says:
“Simple, it’s 50% off in other currencies. I would be buying in London right now, if a 1M[BP] condo cost 500K[US]. Not a tough decision when you pick up NY RE for .50 on the dollar.”

At the rate they are going, it looks like Sterling will head in the same direction as the dollar. It may be that the only thing to save the greenback will be the similar inadequacies of other nations.
Clotpoll says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:26 pm

lisoosh (45)-

Thanks, but “klutz” and “rocket launcher” are two terms I don’t like to see in the same paragraph.

However, I’d love to talk tactics with your hubby. Nothing big, just street combat and hit/run-type ops.
pretorius says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:27 pm

Clotpoll,

How many drinks have you had tonite?
lisoosh says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:28 pm

Ann- I’m guessing that this house has neither wallpaper or wood panelling. :-).

Seriously, if you truly love the house and it sounds like you do, enjoy it. And having your kid in the same school from K on is a bonus, let him enjoy his childhood and his memories and if you are more relaxed even better.
Clotpoll says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:30 pm

lisoosh (46)-

“It may be that the only thing to save the greenback will be the similar inadequacies of other nations.”

It should never escape our notice that the export of inflation is a deliberate and calculated strategy on the part of our gubmint.
Clotpoll says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:31 pm

pret (48)-

None. Am I slurring my words?
pretorius says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:34 pm

Clot,

No. Your typing is sharp.

But you’re saying crazy stuff. Like calling me names then saying you want to talk about street combat to people you don’t even know.
lisoosh says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:35 pm

Clot – I’m not sure how much of his training is transferrable to handling the tantrums of an overfed day trader from suburban New Jersey who can’t find his cheese. But skills are skills.
Clotpoll says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:36 pm

pret-

Gotta be sharp for the Arsenal-Chelsea/ Man U-Liverpool doubleheader tomorrow. Gotta TIVO the Ohio St-Wake national championship at 3, too.

I should have the wifey cleared out by 1-1:30 at the latest (British soccer announcers make her foam at the mouth). Then, my soccer buds come over…and out comes the Knob Creek.
lisoosh says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:38 pm

#50 – I think the UK has done a tremendous job of scr*wing with their economy all on their own. They have their BTL thing going on which appears to be imploding in real time. Quite amazing to see.
Clotpoll says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:38 pm

pret (52)-

Last I checked, no one else here is calling me crazy.
BC Bob says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:38 pm

lisoosh [46],

Bingo. Now we’re talking. It will be a race to the bottom for all the currencies, an all out trade war. Then again, it’s just paper, good faith and a promise. There will be one winner in this scenario.
pretorius says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:40 pm

Clot,

Was in each one of those English cities last week. Manchester was very impressive – easily England’s 2nd city.

Liverpool still has a ways to go, but city shows positive momentum. I went out there on a Tuesday night to a place that clearly wasn’t checking IDs in a country where the drinking age is 18.

Also noticed that New York metro prices are affordable compared to London.
Clotpoll says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:40 pm

pret (52)-

“…like calling me names then saying you want to talk about street combat to people you don’t even know.”

Dude, I just unearthed an Israeli special forces guy. Believe me, that’s someone I’d like to get to know.
BC Bob says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:42 pm

Clot,

Watching the Knicks/Nets will lead one to drink.

Pre,

Go play a Bruce CD and try to figure it out.
Clotpoll says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:44 pm

BC (60)-

“Watching the Knicks/Nets will lead one to drink.”

Flip over to Bengals/Niners. You’ll want to freebase.
3b says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:44 pm

#34 gary: jobs are strong, investments in multinationals are and will continue to do nicely and not one person I know is hurting.

And what does this have to do with the price of capes in Fair Lawn?

Investments in multinationals means over priced capes?

Jobs are strong ? Define? Because if you are talking Wall St, thats frozen at the moment?

Not one person you know is hurting? As far as you know, but you only know what you see? Are you paying their bills every month?

And again we love you man, but you are all tied up in knots over this.

I said in a post last week you cannot have your cake and eat it too.

You have a house, but you do not like your house and town. You want a better house and better town, but you want prices to come down in those towns and on those houses.Then you will lower your price. Why not you be first?

Like I said its you show me yours, then I will show you mine, you cannot have it both ways.
reinvestor101 says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:46 pm

Dear Iisoosh,

First, I believe I owe you an apology for rough language I directed towards you in a previous post. Apparently you’re a lady and I did not realize that. I consider myself a old school sort of gentleman, so I try to lessen my language when dealing with the fairer sex. (It’s no holds barred however with these hard ankles here however.)

Please allow me to draw your attention to the fact that you’re bemoaning housing affordability and wish for the market to accomodate you. Markets aren’t going to accomodate your need for housing. I suggest again that you seek housing for your family in areas of the country that are affordable. If your family income is less than 100K, it’s likely that you’ll remain priced out is most areas of New Jersey.

Please also allow me to politely refute your contention that I seek for the market to accomodate me. That is not true. I seek reasonable market protections for all investors primarily for the fact that we’ve paid the bulk of the taxes in this country. Accordingly, we need an environment supportive of investment. I believe that this is in the government’s interests as well as it tends to shore up tax revenues. Also, market protections for investors is in your interests as this tends to support the sorts of efficiencies that facilitate your own house purchase.

Finally, I do contend that many posters here are similiar to those who seek to destroy this country. Among the posts here today, is one individual who sought your help in repairing a grenade launcher. For what purpose does he require a grenade launcher? Moreover, why would you make an offer to assist him? At a minimum, I think you might agree that’s irregular.

It is this sort of thing that anyone who loves this country can easily become upset about in addition to the unceasing attempts to undermine the real estate markets.

lisoosh Says:
December 15th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
101 – You are neither consistent nor coherent so this is seriously wasting my time.
WHO is moaning? YOU are the one begging the government to rig the market to save your behind. YOU are the one looking for price fixing to rescue you from your easy money scheme. YOU are the one calling people communists and climbing the flagpole.
If you were a legitimate and competent investor you would own income producing properties and wouldn’t be in the frantic panic you are in now.
Me? I took my chances and bet the market would fall. I resisted the temptation to follow the herd and buy 2004-2007. Now prices are dropping. I rolled the dice, took my chances…. and it looks like I won. It took its sweet time but Mr. Market is doing just what Mr. Market is supposed to do – punish the foolish.
WHO is moaning? WHO needs a diaper change? Well, I’m not sh*tting myself, but it sure sounds like you are.
BC Bob says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:47 pm

“Also noticed that New York metro prices are affordable compared to London.”

Pre,

Now you are starting to get it. That’s because London, presently, is the finacial capital of the world. Soon to change though, the hedgies are being taxed out. Guess what, they are not relocating to NY.
pretorius says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:49 pm

BC Bob,

There is no single world financial capital. New York and London are close peers. As long as global wealth continues to grow, both cities will continue to prosper.
BC Bob says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:50 pm

#1 London
#2 NY

Fact.
reinvestor101 says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:51 pm

Let me tell you something, you damn terrorist. What the hell are you in revolt about? You’ve failed to destroy the real estate markets and now since you didn’t buy when you were supposed to, you want to go off and act like Osama?

Tell you what, I’m not putting up with your shlt.

We going to meet somewhere at high noon and settle all this. You’re not going to destroy nothing.

Clotpoll Says:
December 15th, 2007 at 9:26 pm
lisoosh (45)-

Thanks, but “klutz” and “rocket launcher” are two terms I don’t like to see in the same paragraph.

However, I’d love to talk tactics with your hubby. Nothing big, just street combat and hit/run-type ops.
3b says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:52 pm

#59 pret:Also noticed that New York metro prices are affordable compared to London.

That is debateable.

As far as Manchester being England’s second city, also debateable;although it has made numerous strides over the last few years. Birmingham is still considered England’s second city.
pretorius says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:52 pm

BC Bob,

Where are the hedge fund guys going?

I need to buy property in that place so I can participate in its economic growth.
3b says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:54 pm

#68 reinvestor/handout: The real estate market is destroying itself; We just tried to warn people.
reinvestor101 says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:56 pm

Shlt. You have lost your damn mind. Hit and run huh?

High noon. Set the date. It will be Hit and Stay. I sick of this terrorist type behavior.

However, I’d love to talk tactics with your hubby. Nothing big, just street combat and hit/run-type ops.
Clotpoll says:

December 15, 2007 at 9:59 pm

ReTard (63)-

“I suggest again that you seek housing for your family in areas of the country that are affordable.”

There’s no way you can be Grim, because he couldn’t even fake being the condescending, idiotic piece of shit that you are. Did you ever tax your pea of a brain enough to realize that if the entire middle class of NJ is chased off to other parts of the country, the market here will collapse under the weight of all the unsold inventory? Did it ever occur to you that this is actually happening now?

Lisoosh has bigger onions than you, so why bother with the fake apology followed by condescension? I guess we can add chauvinist pig to your unofficial title of njrereport village idiot.

In a strange way, I’m rather encouraged that you and bi represent the bull side of the argument here now. If morons like you and he are all that’s left on that side of the trade, it’s a sign we’re probably nearing the bottom.
3b says:

December 15, 2007 at 10:00 pm

#64 reinvestor: We had subprime, Interest Only, No money down, No docs loans, No money who cares, Negative Am loans, Pick a paymt option Arms.

No lending standards who cares, and finally we hadthe lowest interest rates in 40 years, what exactly more do you want and need for youe environment.

The correction in prices is underway,as it should be, that is how free markets work and clean up the mess when things get out of control.

You as a so called investor should understand that.
reinvestor101 says:

December 15, 2007 at 10:01 pm

High noon for you also. You wanted to destroy and tried to warn people about your attempt.

I’m not taking this any longer. You are not going to rip me off.

I can’t believe Clod and the fact that no one has condemned him.

3b Says:
December 15th, 2007 at 9:54 pm
#68 reinvestor/handout: The real estate market is destroying itself; We just tried to warn people.
BC Bob says:

December 15, 2007 at 10:02 pm

Pre [69],

Singapore, Switzerland, Hong Kong and Dubai.

I was wrong regarding NY as # 2, that distinction now belongs to Chicago.
Clotpoll says:

December 15, 2007 at 10:05 pm

ReTard (63)-

“I seek reasonable market protections for all investors primarily for the fact that we’ve paid the bulk of the taxes in this country.”

Protection from what? Mortgage fraud? Securities fraud? Currency manipulation? Government bailouts of those who commit fraud?

Me too.
BC Bob says:

December 15, 2007 at 10:10 pm

50.5,

The nerve of John shorting the crap that fueled this charade. I agree with bi, pant up.

“Paulson & Co. has generated returns of up to 435% in the first nine months of 2007 thanks to short positions on securities backed by subprime home loans, according to an update the $24 billion hedge fund firm sent to investors recently. Short sales rise in value when the securities in question fall.”

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/two-hedge-funds-move-after/story.aspx?guid=%7B10B95FA5-C070-4CCD-886D-C12F195CB7A0%7D
reinvestor101 says:

December 15, 2007 at 10:10 pm

Funny terrorist, according to Homer, Iisoosh and you, the middle income folks can’t afford NJ now, so presumably they’re not buying now anyway, but guess what? There’s been no collapse in pricing.

What you fail to realize is that the middle income exodus is already underway but has had no impact on prices generally. That means that NJ is truly an extension of high income Manhattan.

And you want to blow them up rather than move to someplace you can afford. Typical of those on the front lines of the upcoming class war. Put a sock in it.

Clotpoll Says:
December 15th, 2007 at 9:59 pm
ReTard (63)-

“ Did you ever tax your pea of a brain enough to realize that if the entire middle class of NJ is chased off to other parts of the country, the market here will collapse under the weight of all the unsold inventory? Did it ever occur to you that this is actually happening now?
Clotpoll says:

December 15, 2007 at 10:13 pm

Retard (78)-

“There’s been no collapse in pricing.”

Right you are. The collapse has been in the values.
Clotpoll says:

December 15, 2007 at 10:17 pm

Hey, ReTard, can we assume you’re ok with NJ’s current property tax structure and the way in which the state is run?

Never heard you mention that, so I’m figuring you’re cool with it.

And why not? Companies and families are just dying to move to NJ and participate in our best of all possible worlds.
BC Bob says:

December 15, 2007 at 10:19 pm

Flash/Unprecendented: Bruce is having problems selling out 3 shows at Gints Stadium in July. During the Rising tour, they sold out 10. The consumer must be feeling the pinch. Bruce having problems selling out in My Hometown?
gary says:

December 15, 2007 at 10:23 pm

3b,

1) I’m not tied up in knots.
2) When I sell, it will be for whatever the market says it will sell for, which means I’ll eat whatever cake is available.
3) I’m talking about jobs in general, not just Wall Street.
4) Really, all the families in our school community that we associate with are doing well.
5) I’m glad you all still love me. :)

I don’t think I sound irrational here… I’m not freaking out or anything. As far as the big multinationals are concerned, that means job growth will remain stable and stability supports home prices.

And, I don’t hate my house, I just want to move to a slightly bigger one and wish, like all of us, that the prices come down. Plain and simple. I think I’m being very reasonable and pragmatic here, no?
syncmaster says:

December 15, 2007 at 11:30 pm

Clot is njrereport’s very own Guy Fawkes :P
syncmaster says:

December 15, 2007 at 11:31 pm

If your family income is less than 100K, it’s likely that you’ll remain priced out is most areas of New Jersey.

South Jersey must not be a part of New Jersey.
syncmaster says:

December 15, 2007 at 11:34 pm

What you fail to realize is that the middle income exodus is already underway but has had no impact on prices generally. That means that NJ is truly an extension of high income Manhattan.

Therefore, the parts of Jersey that have seen drops in prices, must, by definition, not really be Jersey and thereby aren’t an extension of high income Manhattan.

Jersey = Brigadoon. Woodbridge, Alpha, Barnegat, Swedesboro have been exiled.
Clotpoll says:

December 15, 2007 at 11:38 pm

sync (83)-

Man, you had to dig for that one! Haven’t heard that name since 10th grade.
syncmaster says:

December 15, 2007 at 11:41 pm

Clot #86,

I just watched V for Vendetta again, so it’s on my mind. Then I read your post and…

If you haven’t seen it, I recommend it.
t c m says:

December 15, 2007 at 11:53 pm

#54 –

clotpoll –

re: man-U/liverpool –

can you tell me what time and channel?

(not for me, for my husband and son)

thanks
Clotpoll says:

December 16, 2007 at 12:12 am

tcm (88)-

Man U/Liverpool is on either Sky Channel or Virgin Media at around 6-6:30. You can also watch it delayed on the internet, starting Monday, at http://www.liverpoolfc.tv.

Chelsea/Arsenal is easy: Fox Soccer Channel tomorrow (live) at 11 AM. I think it will be the better of the two games.
Clotpoll says:

December 16, 2007 at 12:15 am

sync (87)-

Natalie Portman is hot. I bet she could fix my grenade launcher.
t c m says:

December 16, 2007 at 12:17 am

#89 –

Clotpoll –

thanks!
Clotpoll says:

December 16, 2007 at 12:19 am

tcm-

Sorry…ManU/Liverpool is 8:30 AM. Didn’t figure the time difference right!
syncmaster says:

December 16, 2007 at 12:19 am

Clot #90,

Yes. Among other things.
JCLurker says:

December 16, 2007 at 12:43 am

Journal Square Gets Developers’ Love
The Real Deal reports Journal Square is finally catching the development bug.

“Currently, Journal Square is a relative bargain as existing condos run approximately $300 a square foot, while Jersey City’s waterfront has been selling at roughly $500 a square foot for new construction. Manhattan condo prices, by contrast, ran nearly $1,350 a square foot in the third quarter, according to numbers from Miller Samuel appraisers.”

Does anyone think price per square foot will come down in the next two years in JC?
d2b says:

December 16, 2007 at 12:54 am

Fox has a Soccer channel…

John- I’m never disappointed with the posts. Keep them coming.
njpatient says:

December 16, 2007 at 1:06 am

Pret
I’ve had some interesting back and forth with you, but I read your post at 351 today and realized how small you perceive yourself to be. I feel sorry for you.
njpatient says:

December 16, 2007 at 1:16 am

#2 confused:

“After the 1929 stock market crash, did investors really jump out of windows?
30-Aug-2002

Dear Cecil:
Did investors really jump to their deaths when the stock market crashed in 1929? If so, was it just on Wall Street or all over the country? –Alex Baxter, Aurora, Illinois
Cecil replies:
Admit it, you want this to be true. You want to believe there was a time when ruined tycoons, brought low through their own foolishness and greed, would do the decent thing and commit suicide, in contrast to the modern practice of going before a congressional committee and taking the fifth. You want to think that if you’d walked down Wall Street on Black Thursday–October 24, 1929–bankrupt plutocrats would have been falling out of the skies like rain. In short, you want to believe in a better world.
And you know what? People wanted to believe in it at the time. Even while the financial meltdown was in progress, reporters in downtown Manhattan were checking out a rumor that 11 busted brokers had jumped out of windows. London newspapers gleefully told of pedestrians threading their way through the bodies of fallen speculators. Legend has it that the cops dragged one poor guy off a ledge, only to discover that he was just a window washer. Will Rogers observed, “When Wall Street took that tail spin, you had to stand in line to get a window to jump out of, and speculators were selling space for bodies in the East River.” One senses in these stories an element of wishful thinking on the part of ordinary folks, many of whom had also lost money in the crash. Who can blame them? “The market has tanked! My life savings are gone! These people DESERVE TO DIE!”
Well, they probably did, but they probably didn’t, at least not on October 24 or the even more catastrophic Black Tuesday, October 29. No less an authority than economist John Kenneth Galbraith addressed the subject in his book The Great Crash, 1929, first published in 1955. Studying U.S. death statistics, Galbraith found that while the U.S. suicide rate increased steadily between 1925 and 1932, during October and November of 1929 the number of suicides was disappointingly low.
That’s not to say that a few failed investors, executives, etc., didn’t kill themselves in the wake of the crash. But the suicides happened all around the country, didn’t necessarily involve jumping out the window, and for the most part didn’t take place immediately following the crash. For example:
• On Friday, November 8, J.J. Riordan, president of the County Trust Company, took a pistol from a teller’s cage at his bank, went to his home in downtown Manhattan, and shot himself. The news was suppressed until after the bank closed at noon Saturday, to avoid causing a run on the bank.
• A vice president of the Earl Radio Corporation jumped to his death from the window of a Manhattan hotel. His suicide note read, “We are broke. Last April I was worth $100,000. Today I am $24,000 in the red.” But this happened in early October, weeks before the crash.
• Jesse Livermore, perhaps the most famous of the Wall Street speculators, shot himself–but not until 1940.

Several well-publicized suicides did fulfill the stereotype. Winston Churchill, visiting New York, was awakened the day after Black Tuesday by the noise of a crowd outside the Savoy-Plaza Hotel. “Under my very window a gentleman cast himself down fifteen storeys and was dashed to pieces, causing a wild commotion and the arrival of the fire brigade,” he wrote.
In 1929: The Year of the Great Crash (1989) historian William K. Klingaman says asphyxiation by gas was the most common method of doing oneself in, although there was considerable variety. He writes:
The wife of a Long Island broker shot herself in the heart; a utilities executive in Rochester, New York, shut himself in his bathroom and opened a wall jet of illuminating gas; a St. Louis broker swallowed poison; a Philadelphia financier shot himself in his athletic club; a divorcee in Allentown, Pennsylvania, closed the doors and windows of her home and turned on a gas oven. In Milwaukee, one gentleman who took his own life left a note that read, ‘My body should go to science, my soul to Andrew W. Mellon, and sympathy to my creditors.’

You have to admire a guy like that. Now if only some of the current crop of pirates would take the hint.
–CECIL ADAMS”
RentinginNJ says:

December 16, 2007 at 1:20 am

There’s been no collapse in pricing…What you fail to realize is that the middle income exodus is already underway but has had no impact on prices generally. That means that NJ is truly an extension of high income Manhattan.

Then why do you come here to pizz & moan all the time? If what you say is true, then the “housing terrorists”, intent on lower prices, have not been successful. Why do you need the government to “create an environment more conducive to you investments”?

You should be out raking in the easy money by flipping properties for ever higher prices to ex-Manhattanites looking to move to the burbs.
njpatient says:

December 16, 2007 at 1:27 am

“3. pretorius Says: December 15th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
Lisoosh,
The concentration of wealth in the New York metro today is unprecedented in human history.”

Pret – are you really that ignorant?
grim says:

December 16, 2007 at 7:33 am

From the Philly Inquirer:

Realtors feeling stressed

Stress-management guru Loretta LaRoche thinks Americans take life much too seriously.
And as snow fell on a recent weekday, the Brooklyn-born author and TV personality delivered her message in Hall A of the Atlantic City Convention Center to a standing-room-only audience of men and women who, of late, seem to be some of the most stressed-out Americans of all.

Realtors.

Several thousand dues-paying members of the National Association of Realtors (NAR) from Pennsylvania, New Jersey and New York had gathered there earlier this month for the region’s Triple Play Convention and Trade Expo.

Her keynote address, scheduled midway through the convention, was intended as a side-splitting antidote, albeit temporary for many, to the doom-and-gloom scenarios being painted about the housing industry just about everywhere else.
…
Unless they begin getting in sync with the changed real estate environment, warned Marcie Roggow, president of Creative Learning Concepts of Sioux Falls, Iowa, many of those at the convention might not be renewing their licenses or their NAR memberships.

“We’ll know better how far NAR membership will drop after the first of the year, when renewals come due,” Roggow said. “There will be fewer Realtors for a while, and there will be a period of adjustment until the markets correct.”

At November’s NAR convention in Las Vegas, the group boasted of a membership increase in 2007, to 1.5 million.

In the depths of the 1990s downturn in the real estate market, membership slipped to a record low of 695,000. Another shakeout is due, the experts say.

Former NAR chief economist John Tuccillo, now a Virginia-based consultant, has been predicting a decline in membership since the mid-1990s, with the advent of the Internet. Still, the increase in agents and brokers during the real estate boom of 2002-05 didn’t
…
The Internet seems to be the overwhelming challenge for agents and brokers, but the industry’s response is dangerously and predictably inconsistent, the experts say.

“A lot of older agents have their client base already, and think the Internet buyers are flakes,” Roggow said.

Yet these “flakes” are dictating the fortunes of the current market, and the Internet is defining seller attitudes as well, said Roger Turcotte, a New Hampshire real estate broker and educator.

“You meet with a seller and he wants to list at $390,000, even though your market analysis says to start at $345,000? That’s the Internet talking,” Turcotte said. “Before they call you, [sellers] spend hours looking at Web sites, collecting information from sources that aren’t necessarily reliable.

“You show them the data, and they counter that they are not desperate and they are not going to lower the price.”

What should a listing agent do?

“Walk away,” Turcotte said. “You don’t need the listing that badly, and you know what’s going to happen. Someone else who tells the seller what he or she wants to hear will get the listing, and then the property will stay on the market until the price drops to what the market will bear.”
grim says:

December 16, 2007 at 7:36 am

Global bubble bursting?

From Reuters:

Second Spanish property firm goes insolvent: paper

Basque property developer Ereaga has filed for creditor protection, El Pais newspaper reported on Sunday, the second Spanish real estate company to declare insolvency as sales slow and banks cut back their financing.

The paper said privately held Ereaga had filed for protection in the mercantile court of Bilbao because it could not meet payments on 160 million euros ($233 million) of debt.

Nobody was immediately available for comment at Ereaga’s offices.

The filing comes two months after Llanera, a property firm based in Valencia, asked for creditor protection. Since then, several other real estate companies have tried to sell assets or refinance their debt to ride the drop in the housing market.

The Spanish property sector has rocketed over the last nine years but is suddenly screeching to a halt with house sales falling and price growth slowing quickly.
grim says:

December 16, 2007 at 7:39 am

From the Courier Post Online:

Experts: Housing slump may trigger recession

The head of one of the nation’s largest homebuilders made headlines early this year by bucking his industry peers’ projections of a housing turnaround by spring and instead predicting the market would “suck, all 12 months of the calendar year.”

Boy did he get it right. The housing market has gone from a “correction” to a “slump,” and as 2007 comes to a close, there are signs 2008 will get worse.

Experts are predicting an uglier year as inventories of unsold homes grow and a large number of adjustable-rate mortgages reset, sending more homeowners scrambling to make higher payments and pressuring the already shaky credit markets. What worries industry watchers the most, however, is the possibility that the housing troubles will plunge the economy into a recession.

“I think everyone is expecting the other shoe to fall. There’s still some blood to be let,” said Jim Gaines, a research economist at The Real Estate Center at Texas A&M University. “And historically, a downturn in the housing market has been a leading indicator of a recession.”

The housing slump stands to exact a sizable toll on the broader economy as jobs, retail spending and credit availability could likely take a hit.

During the peak of housing from January 2003 to March 2006, the housing market helped to create 1.3 million jobs. Since then, only 500,000 of those have been lost. Another 800,000 could be on the chopping block.
grim says:

December 16, 2007 at 7:46 am

From Reuters:

Subprime crisis may spread further: Swiss regulator

The subprime crisis is not over yet and could spread to other credit markets, making it important that banks have a strong capital base, a Swiss regulator and prominent member of the Basel Committee said.

“The danger is not over yet. The subprime crisis could spread to other credit markets, such as in the fields of credit cards, consumer credit, car financing, student loans or commercial credit,” Daniel Zuberbuehler, head of the Swiss Banking Authority (EBK), told newspaper NZZ am Sonntag in an interview published on Sunday.

Zuberbuehler also sits on the Basel Committee on Banking Supervision, which sets standards for internationally active banks and advises on how much capital they should set aside against risks.

“Nobody can make predictions about developments in complicated credit securitization markets with certainty. That’s why it is important that banks have a strong capital base,” he said.
ithink_ithink says:

December 16, 2007 at 7:49 am

Clot #35
If it’s modern stuff like MK19 or M203, I can help. Toujours Prêt.
grim says:

December 16, 2007 at 8:03 am

From the AP:

Fed taking on abusive lending practices

People taking out home mortgages may gain new protections soon against shady lending practices as the Federal Reserve seeks to back even the riskiest borrowers, already hit hardest by the housing and credit crunches.

Rules expected to be proposed Tuesday would apply to loans made by all types of lenders, including banks and brokers. The plan from the Fed, which has regulatory powers over the nation’s financial system, could be finalized next year. The effective date would be know then.

The Fed is considering:

_barring lenders from penalizing subprime borrowers — those with spotty credit or low incomes — who pay their loans off early.

_forcing lenders to make sure that borrowers, especially subprime borrowers, set aside money to pay for taxes and insurance.

_restricting loans that do not require proof of a borrower’s income.

_examining lenders’ failure, in some cases, to consider a borrower’s ability to repay a home loan.

_improving financial disclosure so people better understand the terms and conditions of their mortgages and get this information when it is most useful.

_curtailing abuses in mortgage advertising.

“We have an obligation to prevent fraud and abusive lending,” the Fed chairman, Ben Bernanke, said earlier this year. “At the same time, we must tread carefully so as not to suppress responsible lending or eliminate refinancing opportunities for subprime borrowers.’
rhymingrealtor says:

December 16, 2007 at 8:24 am

Ann,

Spam Spam had an interesting post, I will further it. As a child I went to 4 dfferent grammar schools it was very hard to fit in I always felt like an outsider. Not my sister she was never like the new kid. I don’t have friends from kindergarten. I have friends from 7th grade when we did’nt move anymore. However…. I have 2 sons we have lived in the same place since 1st grade my younger son is friends with all the same kids, he know’s everyone =everyone knows him. My oldest son on the other hand started each school year as if he were the new kid, never fitting in. He doesnt form relationships with groups of kids, he’s overwhelmed by a group one kid at a time. If that kid moves or they have a fight.. well that’s it. He is in high school and knows the kids still from 1st grade and they know him and he’s comfortable but has still not formed bonds the kind of bonds you speak of. As I have seen this difference in many families not just my own I can say with confidence your child will adjust or won’t adjust…. and then if she does adjust wait till she’s a teen and she hates everybody and wants to move! I don’t have girls but boy have I seen a lot of that.

Everything works out somehow.

KL
rhymingrealtor says:

December 16, 2007 at 8:26 am

Ann,

One more thing on the changing schools, I am very easy going as an adult, I don’t mind change, I make and keep friends easily.My sister and husband on the other hand well, no freakin way.
KL
ithink_ithink says:

December 16, 2007 at 8:33 am

question:
US population is guestimated at 300 million. What’s the guestimate number of homeowners? I’m trying to mark to market the #’s I hear in articles

-freeze/bailout hits a couple hundred (x’s 3-4 people per household… not a big deal)

– “if home prices fall 20 percent there will be 13.7 million homeowners with negative equity. If prices fall 30 percent, that number would rise to more than 20 million.” link
(x’s 3-4 people… ouch.)

Because honestly, I hear billion & I don’t freak out because trillion is just all too popular. & sadly, I laugh during the holiday season anytime I hear millions donated.
Richie says:

December 16, 2007 at 9:21 am

The Fed is considering:

_barring lenders from penalizing subprime borrowers — those with spotty credit or low incomes — who pay their loans off early.

_forcing lenders to make sure that borrowers, especially subprime borrowers, set aside money to pay for taxes and insurance.

_restricting loans that do not require proof of a borrower’s income.

_examining lenders’ failure, in some cases, to consider a borrower’s ability to repay a home loan.

_improving financial disclosure so people better understand the terms and conditions of their mortgages and get this information when it is most useful.

_curtailing abuses in mortgage advertising.

Ugh. Too little, too late..

What’s next? Required education classes before subprimers apply for a loan so they can understand fiscal responsibility?

-R
bi says:

December 16, 2007 at 9:26 am

Don’t worry. grim will have another uncle to look at his blog instead of worrying SEC all day long for silly stock recommendations and market predictions.

Clotpoll Says:
December 15th, 2007 at 9:26 pm
lisoosh (45)-

Thanks, but “klutz” and “rocket launcher” are two terms I don’t like to see in the same paragraph.

However, I’d love to talk tactics with your hubby. Nothing big, just street combat and hit/run-type ops.
njrebear says:

December 16, 2007 at 9:31 am

Cramer backs Ron Paul??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8teEHdCrFqE
njrebear says:

December 16, 2007 at 9:38 am

“for silly stock recommendations and market predictions”

bi,
Silly as in sell SRS low and buy DUG high? You seem to be so much into losing twice the amount! Do you also have two flipped houses for sale or pending FC??
bi says:

December 16, 2007 at 9:39 am

23#, congrats. ann, good for you.
“A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.”
bi says:

December 16, 2007 at 9:42 am

112#, bear, what is the ticker symbol for ron paul? i want to short
njrebear says:

December 16, 2007 at 9:55 am

“what is the ticker symbol for ron paul? i want to short”

There you go again. First, try not to loose money with exisitng stock symbols.
lisoosh says:

December 16, 2007 at 9:59 am

Clot – My Onions thank you.
lisoosh says:

December 16, 2007 at 10:00 am

BC Bob Says:
“Singapore, Switzerland, Hong Kong and Dubai.

I was wrong regarding NY as # 2, that distinction now belongs to Chicago.”

So when I threw out that hypothetical about Chicago taking over from NY, I was actually on the right track? Woo hoo.
BC Bob says:

December 16, 2007 at 10:37 am

[106]

“We have an obligation to prevent fraud and abusive lending,” the Fed chairman, Ben Bernanke,

Just spit up my coffee. This quote comes from the #1 banker, sorry I mean puppet, in the world? The same individual tells us that risk between growth and inflation is fairly balanced.
OK, growth is sputtering and ppi just came in at 34 year highs. Fairly Balanced? Like putting a 400lb and a 100lb on a seesaw. Any feather brain would realize that won’t work. However, if you gave it to our govt quants, their simulation will show it to be fairly balanced, an avg weight of 250lb. That’s OK, the fed is monitoring this. I think the only thing you are monitoring is Gisele’s bottom.

Ben you want to discuss fraud? The fed, boc, ecb, boe and snb are spewing collosal lies, deceit and distortion. They tell us that they are accepting a wide variety of collateral, [taf]. Why do I picture the characters from Delta House, coughing out bulls*it and blow*** as they are listening to Dean Wormer reprimand them?

Ben, fess up. You are not accepting assets as collateral. If the crap was worth a dime the market would find a home for it. For the first time ever, here we go again, you are accepting liabilities as collateral. Stop criticizing mortgage fraud. Look in the damn mirror.

OT, I feel bad. I’m venting in my warm apt and my landlord is outside shoveling.
pretorius says:

December 16, 2007 at 10:52 am

Njpatient,

Where is the bigger concentration of wealth?
BC Bob says:

December 16, 2007 at 11:09 am

Pre,

Update, Bruce still can’t sell out in his hometown. I have been following Bruce for over 25 years. I have NEVER witnessed this. I don’t need any other indicator, the NJ consumer is tapped.

“Theres a blood red circle
On the cold dark ground
And the rain is falling down
The church doors blown open
I can hear the organs song
But the congregations gone”
Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

December 16, 2007 at 11:17 am

For 109 ithink_ithink:

You asked about the number of homeowners in the US….the census web-site has a good working number. I think the operative figure was 100 million last time I checked. Google Census.gov
pretorius says:

December 16, 2007 at 11:26 am

BC Bob,

Another interesting tidbit about stretched NJ consumers – Taubman owns the Short Hills mall and CEO said on 3Q conference call that sales there were flat.

Sales usually rise 3-5% per year at good malls.
HEHEHE says:

December 16, 2007 at 11:26 am

Pretard,

Read up!!

http://www.minyanville.com/articles/TGT-LOW-HD-WAG-WMT-YUM/index/a/15225
kettle1 says:

December 16, 2007 at 11:30 am

CLotpoll

If youcan tell me the make/model info i may be able to help you. I was in an armor (tank/armored cav unit) unit for a while. i might be able to get the user manual for it
pretorius says:

December 16, 2007 at 11:33 am

HEHEHE,

Commercial real estate fundamentals in the US are generally healthy. Supply and demand remains in balance, with a few exceptions like office buildings in Orange County where demand is shrinking while new buildings are being built.

Hotels, office buildings, shopping centers, apartment buildings, and warehouses are at or near record occupancy and rent levels in most US markets.
kettle1 says:

December 16, 2007 at 11:37 am

re grims global property bubble….

This is only going to exacerbate the problems here. As banks and other investors look overseas for stores of value, european/asian/global real estate bubbles will only amplify the credit/liquidity issue. The biggest issue for private individuals is that a race to the bottom in the currency markets is a lose/lose for us. if a real race to the bottom starts its time to follow clotpolls lead and stock up on gold/guns/food.
HEHEHE says:

December 16, 2007 at 11:41 am

DEFLATION PRETARD, IT’S THE CATCH PHRASE FOR 2008
Morgan says:

December 16, 2007 at 11:52 am

Guys, Need some advise. We some $$ to spare and are looking for some investment opportunities . Here’s what we are thinking about “
1) a multi-family home in NJ close to NY – weehawken,west new york,hobken etc. our plan is to live in one unit and rent out the others. Do you think its a good idea ? is it the right time to buy ? will the prices in these areas go down ?
2) A studio in Manhattan – in a doorman building. Will the prices in Manhattan ever go down ?
still_looking says:

December 16, 2007 at 12:19 pm

lisoosh,

Can you interest your hubby in starting a Krav Maga class? (for real)

Seems like there’d be a lot of interest on this board including me and Clot.

The class in Ridgewood seem hokey and it’s way too overpriced.

I can’t find good Krav Maga classes anywhere.

sl
lisoosh says:

December 16, 2007 at 12:21 pm

BC/Clot –

You guys follow markets to an extent I never will so I have a question.
Looking at exported inflation, a race to the bottom for the major currencies, the fact that real inflation is much higher than admitted, credit is all dried up and home equities have been squeezed mercilessly and the real kicker – incomes aren’t keeping up and a recession looms.

Things REALLY are that bad aren’t they? Actualy Krugerrands/root celler/12 bore shotgun bad (bummer I haven’t bought my mini-farm yet).

Apart from the apocalyptic scenarios, how else to get out of this?
still_looking says:

December 16, 2007 at 12:21 pm

Clot,

Can we just dig up old ordnance on NJ beaches or at the Picc’y arsenal?

sl
reinvestor101 says:

December 16, 2007 at 12:32 pm

Somehow a damn talking cow doesn’t carry a lot of credibility with anyone except you.

Please don’t post anymore of these links.

HEHEHE Says:
December 16th, 2007 at 11:26 am
Pretard,

Read up!!

http://www.minyanville.com/articles/TGT-LOW-HD-WAG-WMT-YUM/index/a/15225
lisoosh says:

December 16, 2007 at 12:38 pm

sl – I think my long answer might be in moderation. Or it disappeared.

Short answer – check the JCC in Bridgewater, no idea about class quality.
reinvestor101 says:

December 16, 2007 at 12:47 pm

You people are a bunch of damn terrorists expecting for year 2k to arrive again. No doubt that some of you have stored water and food in your fallout shelter.

What the hell is the problem with you people? Just because you didn’t buy a house, you’re going to overthrow the government? Just because you failed to destroy the real estate markets, you’re ready to start deploying grenade launchers?

You’re a sick damn bunch of people. Sicker than I ever thought. Now, I’ve always contended that this blog was populated by those who would be on the front lines of the class war between real estate owners and renters and always knew that most were housing terrorists, but never guessed that you’d actually get violent.

Tell you what though, I’m drawing a line in the sand and I’m going to protect my damn country and my investments. I want a high noon appointment with everyone here who wants to jump bad and we’re going to settle this shlt now before it gets out of hand.

kettle1 Says:
December 16th, 2007 at 11:30 am
CLotpoll

If you can tell me the make/model info i may be able to help you. I was in an armor (tank/armored cav unit) unit for a while. i might be able to get the user manual for it
reinvestor101 says:

December 16, 2007 at 12:55 pm

You’ve gotten what you voted for. Unfortunately, our state has had successive liberal administrations (even republicans) that have been the genesis of this problem along with the damn stupid insistance that every small town have home rule.

But again, for denizens of New York City pay both city and state taxes, so a shift to paying property taxes, even if somewhat high, is no big deal when you’ve got the money to pay. Besides, depending on one’s income, it might actually be cheaper to pay the property taxes if you’re moving here from NYC.

New Jersey is an extension of Manhattan.

Clotpoll Says:
December 15th, 2007 at 10:17 pm
Hey, ReTard, can we assume you’re ok with NJ’s current property tax structure and the way in which the state is run?

Never heard you mention that, so I’m figuring you’re cool with it.

And why not? Companies and families are just dying to move to NJ and participate in our best of all possible worlds.
BC Bob says:

December 16, 2007 at 1:01 pm

“Things REALLY are that bad aren’t they?”

lisoosh [131],

I laid out the scenarios somewhere on the weekend discussion;

1) Zombieism, dead man walking
2) Deep recession
3) 24 hour printing presses, weimar.

Pick your poison.

The fed tells us they are concerned about rising inflation. It’s a desperate attempt to keep the bond vigilanties in check, it won’t work. The seeds have been planted. Don’t do as they say, do as they do. Look at the repo market, they are attempting to blast open a sumo wrester’s a## and pump it up with liquidity. Yet they are monitoring inflation. The fed should have been included in the Mitchell investigation.

For once, I agree with bi. It’s time to pant up. Maybe buy a knockdown in Whiperney, Bdemsitre or Cilntn. Build a fort surrounded by fields; plant grain and raise chickens, cattle and cows. And of course a vault for anything shiny and hard.
3b says:

December 16, 2007 at 1:05 pm

#136 reinvsetor: And of course they all have the money to pay.
BC Bob says:

December 16, 2007 at 1:05 pm

“I want a high noon appointment with everyone here who wants to jump bad and we’re going to settle this shlt now before it gets out of hand.”

50.5,

First, attempt to get off the ground. Then please wipe off those footsteps.
lisoosh says:

December 16, 2007 at 1:19 pm

BC Bob Says:
December 16th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
“Things REALLY are that bad aren’t they?”

“For once, I agree with bi. It’s time to pant up. Maybe buy a knockdown in Whiperney, Bdemsitre or Cilntn. Build a fort surrounded by fields; plant grain and raise chickens, cattle and cows. And of course a vault for anything shiny and hard.”

Sigh.

Well I was looking at modest homes on 4-5 acres in Hunterdon/Somerset. Planning on orchards, vegetables, guinea fowl and goats plus a woodshop. Hubby already has diesel and source of oil for biodiesel and is very handy.

Not because I am a survivalist nut but just because I wanted a bit of self sufficiency in a suburban hippy kind of way, and to teach the kids to be adaptable.

Looks like I am ahead of the curve. I’ll look into the shiny stuff. Thanks.
3b says:

December 16, 2007 at 1:22 pm

#83 gary: Well lets agree to disagree. But if you think that with all that has transpired that this thing is going to end with just a flattening in prices, you are mistaken.

And one final time I submit to you that if all is well, where are all the buyers, becasue teh inventory is certainly there.

As far as all your friends doing well, again you see what you see, nothing more.
3b says:

December 16, 2007 at 1:25 pm

#139 BC Bob: how come it appears that you and I and Clot, are the only people that seem to remember what happened last time, we cannnot be that old.

And the ironic thing is that this time around looks a lot scarier to me. Even with the 90’s recession, we were a much stonger and better country then we are now.
njpatient says:

December 16, 2007 at 1:33 pm

120 pret
Abu dhabi

You’re not an idiot, though. You could have looked that up (and another half dozen places like it) yourself.
HEHEHE says:

December 16, 2007 at 1:39 pm

Reinvestor: I prefer advice from a talking cow than a talking jack@ss like you ;)
cliffy says:

December 16, 2007 at 1:44 pm

Grim
Can you or aomeone with MLS ACCESS pull up the full property details for this listing

MLS # 2744396

It appears it is a foreclusure ? but I am not sure.
frank says:

December 16, 2007 at 1:46 pm

#129,
You’re crazy to buy right now, RE prices have collapsed (50-70% off) in the Mid-west, CA and FL. NY/NJ is next, you’ll see 70% off in Manhattan in the next 24 months. The fact that the mortgage market has collapsed made this bubble much worse that any other before.
Ann says:

December 16, 2007 at 1:55 pm

24 gary

I agree with you, the listings don’t show huge drops. But if you follow them through to the ones that sell, the selling prices are no where near the listing prices in most cases, unless the seller and realtor priced it aggressively. The selling prices are definitely hitting 2004 prices now, maybe a tiny bit above. This is true at least in the three Bergen towns I’ve been following since June. People who bought in 2005 and 2006 are not going to be able to sell without losing a bit of money, especially after paying the realtor.

50 lisoosh

No wallpaper or wood paneling! Just lots of plain white walls in good condition.
AntiTrump says:

December 16, 2007 at 2:09 pm

This guy is getting senile. He starts the biggest housing bubble in US history and now wants the tax payer to bail out speculators??

Greenspan: Give Homeowners Financial Aid

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071216/greenspan_economy.html
still_looking says:

December 16, 2007 at 2:25 pm

lisoosh,

good grief! you must be my karma-twin! We are looking exactly for the same thing only was hoping for more acreage and wooded (woodland management – easier than produce sales.)

We already have a source for Rhode Island Reds (chickens) were hoping for sheep (ie spring lamb) rather than goats and for fruit trees, too.

And… we have a friend who knows how to farm tilapia. Not for survivalist either but for a well grounded family. We live in Bergen (w/relatives) right now.

I can’t stand Bergen County (w/ the except’n of my kid’s preschool.)

We might end up neighbors! (Will gladly trade fresh eggs and lamb for guinea fowl and stuff.)

Hubby is a carpenter and a bigtime DIY-er.

We also want our kids to grow up with good roots, down to earth knowledge and self sufficiency.

sl
chicagofinance says:

December 16, 2007 at 2:32 pm

3b Says:
December 16th, 2007 at 1:25 pm
#139 BC Bob: how come it appears that you and I and Clot, are the only people that seem to remember what happened last time, we cannnot be that old.

And the ironic thing is that this time around looks a lot scarier to me. Even with the 90’s recession, we were a much stonger and better country then we are now.

3B: the unknown is always more intimidating….just ask the stock market
spam spam bacon spam says:

December 16, 2007 at 2:34 pm

135 50.50

housing terrorists

(snicker…giggle….chortle…snort….)

That’s my new favorite saying…

WHOA SHIT! STEP BACK MAN…MY GOD! FOR CRISSAKES CAN’T YOU SEE THE housing terrorists ARE COMING?!?!?! JACK THOSE DAMN PRICES UP TO WARD THEM OFF!!!! NOW!!! NOW!!! RUN TO THE REALTOR SIGNS IN YOUR FRONT YARDS, ALL OF YOU AND SLAP “PRICE INCREASE” ACROSS THE TOP…FOR GAWDSAKES PEOPLE!!!! SAVE YOURSELVES!!!!
BC Bob says:

December 16, 2007 at 3:19 pm

Anti [148],

You’re right he must be getting senile. Otherwise, how do you interpret these contradictions, from the same article;

A) “Such a cash infusion would typically come through a tax break or a new government spending program.”

B) “Separately, Greenspan said he is concerned about signs of a resurgence of inflation.”

“Core inflation is up. Wholesale prices had their highest increase I think in a generation. That raises the specter of stagflation again,” said Greenspan, referring to a simultaneous stagnant economy and upward pressure on prices.

“He said the Federal Reserve should “do what it has to do to suppress the inflation rates that I see emerging, not immediately, but clearly over the intermediate and longer term period.”

This guy wants to contract and pump simultaneously.
HEHEHE says:

December 16, 2007 at 3:24 pm

Well Pre and RE101 have convinced me, do you have any suggestions where I can find some condo’s to flip? I know you love the Gold Coast. Hoboken? JC? Bayonne?
syncmaster says:

December 16, 2007 at 3:42 pm

reinvestor101 #136 says:

New Jersey is an extension of Manhattan.

Repetition must make the patently absurd seem plausible.
anonymous says:

December 16, 2007 at 4:20 pm

Greenspan: Give Homeowners Financial Aid
WASHINGTON (AP) — Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve, suggested Sunday that a tax break or other government financial help for homeowners facing the mortgage crunch would be the best political fix for the economy.
He cautioned against meddling with home prices or interest rates to address the housing problem.
Greenspan did not specifically call for a tax cut. Instead, he called for the government to apply money to the severe housing market slump. Such a cash infusion would typically come through a tax break or a new government spending program.

“Cash is available and we should use that in larger amounts, as is necessary, to solve the problems of the stress of this,” Greenspan said during an appearance on ABC’s “This Week.”

Separately, Greenspan said he is concerned about signs of a resurgence of inflation.

“Core inflation is up. Wholesale prices had their highest increase I think in a generation. That raises the specter of stagflation again,” said Greenspan, referring to a simultaneous stagnant economy and upward pressure on prices.

He said the Federal Reserve should “do what it has to do to suppress the inflation rates that I see emerging, not immediately, but clearly over the intermediate and longer term period.”

Greenspan said a large number of people are in major financial stress, even when they’ve tried exceptionally hard to make their monthly mortgage payment. But some political solutions would only prolong their agony, he said.

“It’s far less damaging to the economy to create a short-term fiscal problem, which we would, than to try to fix the prices of homes or interest rates. If you do that, it’ll drag this process out indefinitely,” said Greenspan, referring to his preference for a cash infusion to help homeowners.

Greenspan ran the central bank for more than 18 years. He has been criticized by some for keeping interest rates too low for too long after the 2001 recession.

He said — as he did earlier in the week in another interview — that he agrees with some experts who see prospects for a recession at about 50-50.

“Whether it’s above or below (50 percent) is really extraordinarily difficult to tell,” Greenspan said.

Greenspan said the key lesson the economy has provided lawmakers over the last 20 years is that inflation must be suppressed for sustained economic growth to occur.
kettle1 says:

December 16, 2007 at 4:57 pm

A little dry, but some of the people on this board might find this interesting/illumiinating, be patient and take a least a short look, its completely legitamite and not propaganda.

Here we have Dr. Albert Bartlett, Professor Emeritus of the Department of Physics, University of Boulder Colorado talking about Peak Oil and Population Growth from a mathematics perspective. As he says, it’s not rocket science, but nevertheless the consequences of these simple calculations are being almost universally ignored in our consumer-oriented economy – and by the politicians and industry that run them.

http://tinyurl.com/ynrtaj
kettle1 says:

December 16, 2007 at 5:05 pm

I would suggest starting with some of the video clps later i the series unless you are really curious about the math…..
reinvestor101 says:

December 16, 2007 at 5:22 pm

“Cash is available and we should use that in larger amounts, as is necessary, to solve the problems of the stress of this,” Greenspan said during an appearance on ABC’s “This Week.”

I really wish that Greenspan was still in charge of the fed. He’s really making a lot of sense. We need to get cash to homeowners so we can keep real estate valuations in a continued upward projectory. This really makes a lot of sense and if done broadly would be an excellent thing for our economy. I hope he continues to put pressure on Bernanke. Bernanke has really been a disappointing little weasel.

Why does it always seem that the best people leave government?
anonymous says:

December 16, 2007 at 5:30 pm

New jerseyans by no means are broke according to Forbes ….there is just too much money around here ….http://www.forbes.com/personalfinance/2007/12/10/savings-massachusetts-hawaii-pf-ii-in_kb_1210bestplaces_inl_slide.html
grim says:

December 16, 2007 at 5:45 pm

anon,

The A.G. Edwards index is interesting, but the choice of “communities” they used to rank NJ is a bit… odd..

http://www.agedwards.com/pdf/nest_egg_index/rank_by_alpha.pdf

New Jersey 2 (113.21)
Atlantic City 304 (99.88)
Ocean City 123 (105.67)
Trenton-Ewing 18 (114.35)

If these are the only metropolitan statistical areas (MSAs) used to determine NJ’s rankings, I don’t see how their index could be a representative picture for the entire state.

We’re basically looking at Atlantic, Cape May, and Mercer Counties?
BC Bob says:

December 16, 2007 at 6:06 pm

JB,

Did 50.5 put me into moderation?
spam spam bacon spam says:

December 16, 2007 at 6:06 pm

[158] ReINV…

I’m a homeowner.

Cut out the middleman…

Just directly send CASH to ME.

Hey! Thanks!!!

[I’ll even make ya’ proud…I’ll forego my current mortgage and buy something I can flip quickly…ya’ know…kind of like INVESTING your (not so) small donation to my effort to keep housing priced higher…)

You da’ man!
reinvestor101 says:

December 16, 2007 at 6:16 pm

What are you talking about? I wish I had the power to put your posts in moderation. Hell, I’d probably have 90% of posts here in moderation.

BC Bob Says:
December 16th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
JB,

Did 50.5 put me into moderation?
reinvestor101 says:

December 16, 2007 at 6:23 pm

Actually spam spam (I don’t know where you got that handle), the government has the cash and Greenspan has suggested that homeowners need a cash injection through a tax break or other means. I agree with that and if you’re a homeowner, I expect that you would be supportive of this also.

Those who take the risk to own and invest in this country deserve to be taken care of. You’re being a bit flippant here, but actually, it would not be a bad idea to use this cash to invest.

This is Greenspan’s turn back to Keynesian economic thought. I believe that will help the people. I believe in people getting helped.

spam spam bacon spam Says:
December 16th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
[158] ReINV…

I’m a homeowner.

Cut out the middleman…

Just directly send CASH to ME.

Hey! Thanks!!!

[I’ll even make ya’ proud…I’ll forego my current mortgage and buy something I can flip quickly…ya’ know…kind of like INVESTING your (not so) small donation to my effort to keep housing priced higher…)

You da’ man!
BC Bob says:

December 16, 2007 at 6:51 pm

“What are you talking about? I wish I had the power to put your posts in moderation.”

50.5,

Are you an ignoramus? We realize you have zero, [below the mendoza line], power. Only qualified buyers with no contingencies are on steroids today. I thought JB may have a new filter, whereby the mention of 50.5 may foster wariness/preparedness. How can anybody, laid out on the mat, even have the power to say, “my offer is”? The power is in the bid, albeit a low one at that.
BC Bob says:

December 16, 2007 at 6:55 pm

“I believe in people getting helped.”

50.5 [165],

Engels and Marx.
lisoosh says:

December 16, 2007 at 7:15 pm

Still looking –

Cool. Spam has something similar but horsey I believe.
I wasn’t really looking for anything commercial, more a case of teaching the kids some animal husbandry in a 4H kind of way and having a source of fresh organic produce. If I made my $500 and got the tax break, great, but not critical. Guinea fowl for tick control – but I’d happily swap out the odd one and some goat cheese for fresh eggs :-).
Oh and hubby hates close neighbours and I hate being too much in the boonies so that size and general area seemed appropriate and there are a fair number of suitable properties in the area.
You should be able to find what you are looking for, especially if you want wooded.
How big an area did you want?
bi says:

December 16, 2007 at 7:47 pm

146#, frank, show us some link please. we all going to fl or ca living in multimillion mansion and half naked at beach
spam spam bacon spam says:

December 16, 2007 at 8:05 pm

Hey Lisoosh…

I have about what you are looking for…

We bought a (ahem) “gem in the rough” because we saw good bones in the setting.

Close to 78, 6+ acres, but still a neighborhood, REALLY old house that was pretty much ignored (not remuddled)…there was no landscaping, no outbuildings (except an outhouse), etc…

We took the raw property and have created mayhem :) (JK) Actually, we’ve outgrown it.

We have a 130+ chickens (Rhodies, Buff Orps, Brahmas, Aracaunus, etc…) a goat and horses.

The property has a few problems which I’d like to outline here for you and others who lurk and are thinking about coming to beautiful Hunterdon County…some well placed questions when looking at a property could help you avoid a LOT of problems…
Confused In NJ says:

December 16, 2007 at 8:17 pm

The first place the government can go to get cash for distressed homeowner is Wall Street. They can simply change the 1040 for 2007 to assess a special 100% surcharge on all Wall Street Bonuses.
bi says:

December 16, 2007 at 8:23 pm

not too late to save your dowpayment by liquidating euro denominated assets.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601083&sid=aDERpdsddeeg&refer=currency
spam spam bacon spam says:

December 16, 2007 at 8:30 pm

Lisoosh,

Couple of things to mention:

Most of HC is in the Highlands, either as planning or preservation.

“The Highlands Act” is a law to protect our water that covers a #@$load of land and basically restricts your land use, as a property owner in the Highlands…

Being a farmer eases what restrictions are placed on you…so get farmland assessed ASAP.

Trees: Many towns have a tree ordinance that restricts you from removing trees AT ALL. My town says we may not remove trees more than 3″ in diameter at 3′ height… so woodland can never be turned to pasture WITHOUT serious permitting. Forget it.
So, woodland can be woodland managed, but So if I look at a parcel of land with say, 120 acres of property, but only 30 acres is cleared, then I have to treat that property as 30 acres, really. The woodland is a non-issue. It’s a break-even that can never be considered an asset, other than a pretty view. Sucks to be stuck with a pretty view when you really need an equipment barn…

Cat 1 streams: They’re everywhere. Category 1 streams are trout producing…very nice stuff… but any tributaries to a cat stream restrict all land use. No kids play area, no barn, nada.
300′ if you’re not farmland assessed, 150′ if you are… and don’t forget to look at the neighbors if the prop lines are that close. The restriction doesn’t end at an imaginary prop line… 300′ is 300′ no matter who property it’s on…

Neighbors hate guinea fowl. Get them if you want your neighbors to move.

Neighbors also hate farmers, if they are not inclined to be of the farming sort themselves. Being in a village setting gets you a bunch of pissed off neighbors when your Cocks are crowing at 4am and the manure pile is making you reminisce about the Turnpike thru Woodbridge back in the 70’s…

Manure: I think 150′ from well heads (don’t forget your neighbor’s!), 300′ from water, etc…

Easements: Holy crap almost forgot!
GET A CURRENT MAP OF ANY PROSPECTIVE PROPERTY!!! The hot idea now is to sell into farmland preservation or green acres program and then sell off what’s left to an unsuspecting buyer. There’s more easements on some properties than there are blades of grass…DEP, NJWA, Green Acres, JCP&L, line of sight, building envelope, utility, conservation, Highlands, wetlands, neighbor’s permanent use of your lands, etc

Anyway, I HTH….

(Ask me how I know :)
frank says:

December 16, 2007 at 8:33 pm

#168,
Just check http://www.thehousingbubbleblog.com/index.html to see how bad things are. If you need specific properties check realtor.com
BC Bob says:

December 16, 2007 at 8:41 pm

“we all going to fl or ca living in multimillion mansion and half naked at beach”

bi,

Correct, pant up, to the beach.
Everything's 'boken says:

December 16, 2007 at 9:11 pm

Actually, I was very interested in the Greenspan ‘cash’ suggestion. It has long been my belief (since 2006) that the intent is to inflate our way out of the problem.

It seems to me that he is saying that this is the correct course. What is odd is the later expressed concern about inflation in the middle to long term. I fear that he may be underestimating the size of the problem.
grim says:

December 16, 2007 at 9:30 pm

39 Briar Court, Hardyston NJ

Purchased: 3/25/2005
Purchase Price: $452,611

MLS# 2446411

Sold: 12/14/2007
Sale Price: $400,000
$52,611 (11.6%) under purchase price

Post commission(6%) loss: ~$76,000
grim says:

December 16, 2007 at 9:40 pm

Speaking of Hardyston..

Bank of NY is dumping this REO.

3 Aspen Court

MLS# 2448849
OLP: $359,900
LP: $274,700
3/2 Interior TH in Crystal Springs

Here are the neighbors:

1 Aspen
Purchased: 11/11/2004
Purchase Pricel $380,000

5 Aspen
Purchased: 10/19/2007
Purchase Price: $370,000

7 Aspen
Purchase Date: 10/16/1997
Purchase Price: $231,609

9 Aspen
Purchased: 1/6/2006
Purchase Price: $399,900
syncmaster says:

December 16, 2007 at 9:41 pm

grim,

Can you get me the sales price of 138 keswick in 08854? I am told it closed this month. Thanks :)
grim says:

December 16, 2007 at 9:53 pm

I see an recent record for 138:

10/17/2007 for $337,000.
grim says:

December 16, 2007 at 9:56 pm

If “black swans” are so rare, why are they being sighted so frequently?

From the FT:

Municipal SIV advocates fly into turbulence

Last week David Lemoine, the treasurer of the US state Maine, described a $20m investment by the state in a structured investment vehicle that later downgraded to junk as a “black swan event”.

The ornithological reference was meant to suggest “an event which is unbelievable until actually seen”, he said. However, black swans have now been found by local government fund managers in at least half a dozen US states. In fact, billions of US taxpayers’ dollars are caught up in investments at the centre of the current credit storm.
syncmaster says:

December 16, 2007 at 9:59 pm

grim #178,

Thanks. I know the previous owner bought that for 248k in 2002. Not too shabby.

Again, thanks for looking it up.
mikeinwaiting says:

December 16, 2007 at 10:51 pm

Grim That C. Springs REO is in my area.That will kill comps when/if sold.The springs is real nice to.I would say it will
sell quick even in this market.Its going to get real bad up here in the NW.That is high end of developments.Wait till the wife hears this one.
lisoosh says:

December 16, 2007 at 11:03 pm

Spam – I would DEARLY love your input on the area and any advice you can pass on so that I can avoid as many pitfalls as possible.

I’ll be looking for a realtor with experience in these types of properties, but the more inside scoop the better.

Grim, please pass on my email to spam so that we don’t clog up the forum.
Clotpoll says:

December 16, 2007 at 11:21 pm

lisoosh (131)-

It’s getting onto being THAT bad. The only things that can pull us through are:

1. An actual, full-bore recession. It will be good in the same way forest fires are good. A nice purge that refreshes the system. Unfortunately, Big Bro doesn’t like options like this in a prez election year.

2. Some sector of the economy generates enough legitimate growth to stabilize the free fall of the USD. Yeah, right…

3. The biggest economic “rabbit from a hat” ever pulled: simultaneously provide massive liquidity to malfunctioning segments of short-term financing markets while removing liquidity from the economy in general. Repeat after me: yeah, right…
Clotpoll says:

December 16, 2007 at 11:22 pm

sl (132)-

Thanks, but no thanks. Some of that stuff can still go boom.
Pat says:

December 16, 2007 at 11:24 pm

http://biz.yahoo.com/nytimes/071217/1194726782523.html?.v=20
“In a Mess, Yes, but She’s Got a Plan”
Pat says:

December 16, 2007 at 11:25 pm

http://www.straitstimes.com/Latest%2BNews/Money/STIStory_187663.html

Ewwwwww
Clotpoll says:

December 16, 2007 at 11:25 pm

ReTard (135)-

Why can’t you answer simple questions? Until you can master this simple skill, I’m ignoring you. Your pronouncements are false, tedious and predictable.
Pat says:

December 16, 2007 at 11:26 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csFqrkx9FF4&feature=related

J.B., here’s your musical theme for the new year.
lisoosh says:

December 16, 2007 at 11:28 pm

A rather amusing article from the Times (London) about the benefits of a recession. Very English in tone which the anglophiles at least should appreciate:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/caitlin_moran/article3054541.ece
Clotpoll says:

December 16, 2007 at 11:29 pm

sync (154)-

“Repetition must make the patently absurd seem plausible.”

Look what it did for Karl Rove.
Clotpoll says:

December 16, 2007 at 11:35 pm

broken (174)-

“What is odd is the later expressed concern about inflation in the middle to long term.”

Hey, they can always talk down inflation. See how effective jawboning has been in propping up the USD? [Sarcasm off.]

If the talk doesn’t work, they can always fabricate the statistics (even further than they do now).

Hey, it’s all good.
syncmaster says:

December 16, 2007 at 11:59 pm

Clot #190,

Hey, we won in Iraq, I don’t know what you’re talking about ;)
Shore Guy says:

December 17, 2007 at 12:30 am

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/15/AR2007121500025.html

No Question, All’s Well in the State of Denial

By Elizabeth Razzi
Sunday, December 16, 2007; Page F06

Meet Pollyanna, your real estate agent.

She has stuck with the real estate business through two tough years, and she’ll spend the winter convincing herself that the only problem with the market is that headline-hungry oafs in the news media have talked buyers into hiding. It’s not the economy that’s keeping buyers away; rather, it’s the talk about the economy that has them sidelined.

[snip]
Nj bound says:

December 17, 2007 at 12:06 pm

weighing in on the moving debate. There are certainly benefits of both moving kids and not moving kids. I grew up in NZ, moved once as a kid, moved to England to grad school, then to VT, AL, CT,IL, back to CT and now to NJ (about 15 year timeframe) My wife was an airforce brat so moved tons as a kid. Consequently we have no near by family network, and goodness knows moving to NJ is ‘challenging’ to integrate. I have also seen many families with screwed up kids that have moved in the pharma industry all over the world- just too many times.
So on one hand I’d love to be close to my family, on the other hand, I’d like my kids to experience different cultures and environments. So I believe a few moves are a good thing.
I have also seen some EU families move here with 10-12 year old kids, they learn english which is a huge bonus, hence ditto for doing the reverse to somewhere in the EU.
I actually find some (careful not to offend in this delicate crowd) people that have never moved to be very closed-minded. ie if you have grown up in NJ and never lived anywhere else- you have no idea what it is like to be polite on the road, (nor do you expect polite customer service, nor…..) you just don’t have anything to compare to……
fscd bnpxoe says:

December 20, 2007 at 6:28 pm

dlcyirx wdvpfuk jpdi wyglr fjcshzalp rdeufyhwp lghwz

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