Weekend Open Discussion – Part III

Posted on January 20, 2008 by grim

Now Open, Part III!

Prior weekend thread closed due to comment overflow.

This entry was posted in General. Bookmark the permalink.

136 Responses to Weekend Open Discussion – Part III

grim says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:45 am

From the APP:

Is Citigroup bailout prudent for state?

The New Jersey Investment Division is listed after the Kuwait Investment Authority as one of the investors in the bailout of Citigroup. The bank lost $10 billion in the last quarter of 2007, the biggest quarterly loss in its history. (“Citigroup loses almost $10B, cuts dividend, jobs,” Jan. 15.)

Is this an appropriate investment of funds for the state to be involved in considering the size and impact the subprime credit crisis is having on the global markets and that many major financial institutions run the risk of going under?

Obviously, reward needs to offset risk, but for a government-controlled fund representing taxpayers, there would seem to be a need for restraint in the amount of risk and the size of the risk to be taken on. I realize the governor and his former treasurer are Wall Street guys and may be comfortable with this, especially given the size of the debt the state is carrying, but I would hope they are not bailing out Wall Street friends at the undue risk of taxpayers.
grim says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:48 am

From the Morning Call:

Renting by choice goes from rogue to vogue

At 48, Sheryl Bottner is still a renter, and she’s proud of it. In fact, she has no intention of buying a home. Not now. Not ever.

Ask her about the ”American Dream” of homeownership, and she is resolute in her response.

”I have heard that from my friends for several years,” she said. ”I had to look at them and say, ‘That’s your American dream. That’s not my American dream.’ ”

Many of these renters by choice regard themselves as winners as they watch home prices fall in parts of the country and homeowners struggle to pay their adjustable-rate mortgages.
…
There was a time when it was simpler. That is, when it cost less to own than to rent. Ten years ago, according to Moody’s Economy.com, the average annual cost of owning a home — including mortgages, taxes and maintenance costs — was $10,231 nationally, compared with $13,090 for renting.

Then things changed. Owning became more expensive than renting in the first quarter of 2004, and that trend has persisted. In the second quarter of this year, nationwide, the average annual cost of owning a home was $17,707, compared with $15,721 for renting.

”In the last four years, rent became a four-letter word. No one wanted to rent. They looked down upon it ” said Larson. ”I think a lot of people just assumed buying makes sense. They drank the Kool-Aid and unfortunately are finding themselves now in a tough spot.”
grim says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:50 am

From the Courier Post:

Manufacturing sector hardest hit in N.J. job losses

Four years from now Linda Beyer expected to be coasting into early retirement.

Instead, the former production worker at Metrologic Instruments Inc. is unemployed, while another worker — earning about 80 cents an hour in China — is assembling the very scanners she used to make in West Deptford.

Her situation is not unusual.

New Jersey lost about 7,600 factory jobs last year, further draining the state’s dwindling capacity to make anything.

Though manufacturing represents only about 10 percent of the regional economy, it took the biggest hit last year in New Jersey across all categories, including construction.

More than 2,100 jobs left New Jersey in the last two years for foreign countries, including an estimated 200 from Metrologic, according to the New Jersey Department of Labor.
…
You don’t have to be an economist to see where the jobs are coming from.

More retail, more restaurants, fitness centers, nail salons, golf clubs, car dealers and hangar-size warehouses strategically placed on major highways.

More Starbucks, Rita’s Water Ice shops, surgical centers, assisted living complexes and mega supermarkets, like Wegmans and ShopRite, replacing smaller, neighborhood stores.
grim says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:54 am

From the Hartford Courant:

Truth About Home Prices

It’s common and perfectly legal — homeowners give buyers cash back at closing to cover expenses such as closing costs, mortgage payments, taxes or even home improvements.

Take, for example, a recent home sale on Rosemont Avenue in Bristol. Agent Charlie Kaylor said the three-bedroom, ranch-style house sold for $193,000, but the sellers gave the buyer $5,000 at closing. The price was recorded as $193,000 — that is what the buyer paid — although the true sales price after the cash giveback was really $188,000.

Such givebacks, along with throw-ins such as sellers paying for new roofs and driveways, are a sign that it’s a buyer’s market.

But they’re also artificially propping up home sales prices, which helps explain an economic oddity that Connecticut is seeing these days: The median price of homes keeps rising in the midst of a housing slowdown, as the number of homes sold each month keeps dropping and the number of homes for sale is creeping up.

The artificial prop-up means that the downturn in Connecticut’s real estate market, and that of the rest of the nation, is deeper than it appears.

“It’s a big deal because prices are, in fact, falling; we know they are falling, but that is not reflected in the numbers we see,” said Ron Van Winkle, a West Hartford economist and town official.
grim says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:56 am

From the New York Post:

SEE SOFTENING SOON IN CITY RE

As the stock market tanks and Wall Street layoffs continue, even New York’s Teflon real estate market is starting to feel the heat.

A small but gnawing, growing fear is that the European invasion that has kept the market afloat may end soon, say some real estate executives and analysts who sense that the market may be topping.

“We’re at a crossroads,” said Dottie Herman, president and CEO of Prudential Douglas Elliman.

“If you look at the economies in Europe, some of them are overheating and so it’s unrealistic to expect there’s this unlimited source of demand,” said real estate analyst Jonathan Miller.

With the city trying to come to grips with the wave of layoffs sweeping Wall Street – and with the stock market dive driving down the value of stock-loaded bonuses – Miller feels the still-strong city real estate market is possibly just weeks away from feeling the affects of the sickly financial sector.
grim says:

January 20, 2008 at 7:19 am

Could someone give me an address/sales history on MLS: 2470196? It looks like a flip to me.

122 Washington Avenue
OLP/LP: $269,900
DOM: 18
In Attorney Review

Purchased: 12/22/03
Purchase Price: $155,000

Was purchased as-is, in rough shape. From what I can tell from the MLS pictures, looks like quite a bit of work has already been done (still needs another bath renovation). I wouldn’t call this one a flip.
Chuchundra says:

January 20, 2008 at 7:25 am

Grim, have you thought of installing a comment paging plugin?

http://www.keyvan.net/code/paged-comments/
Clotpoll says:

January 20, 2008 at 7:28 am

lurky (395)-

“Also, is there something wrong with High Bridge? It seems like there are lower than surrounding areas.”

Nothing wrong with High Bridge…unless you find the occurrence of an inordinate amount of people with three chromosomes troubling.

Municipal motto: “a little slice of West Virginia in NJ”.
Confused In NJ says:

January 20, 2008 at 7:32 am

396. Damian Says:
January 20th, 2008 at 4:00 am
Anyone else think that instead of another set of tax breaks from the government to boost the economy, they should just make it a federal law that property tax could not exceed .05% of the total value of the property? Honestly, I work part-time as a delivery guy for a pharmacy and more frequently now I see older retired folks saying they have to sell their homes because they can not pay for the taxes and all their healthcare bills… It’s ridiculous that someone can be paying $11,000 (Bergen County) for property tax after they paid off their mortgage. It’s gotten to the point that your house never belongs to you, you’re merely renting it from the state.

This is a two part problem;

1. The government refuses to negotiate a discount on Drug Costs from Drug Companies for Medicare Part D. This is true of the Republican Congress that passed the Medicare Part D Legislation & the Democratic Congress that said they would change it, and didn’t. They think it’s O.K. for US citizens to subsidize the rest of the world by paying more for Drugs then any other Country. Why, they have been bought and paid for by the Drug Lobby.
2. Sadly, you are right, we don’t own our own homes, we rent them from the State. And if you can’t pay, the Sheriff takes it away. The Original NJ Income Tax was passed to provide Property Tax Relief. Sadly, the NJ Legislators have also been bought and paid for, by Special Interest Lobbys. Your House is one of the States ATM machines.
Essex says:

January 20, 2008 at 8:15 am

Drug companies are your friends confused, take your meds like a good boy. Long live big pharma!
Orion says:

January 20, 2008 at 8:21 am

The Education of Ben Bernanke, from NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/magazine/20Ben-Bernanke-t.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin
Willow says:

January 20, 2008 at 8:23 am

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-shortsell20jan20,0,1815515.story?coll=la-tot-business&track=ntothtml

How we cashed in before the housing crash

Friends thought he was nuts when a Times reporter sold his home and started to rent in 2005. But for him, the warning signs were just too hard to miss.

By Peter Y. Hong, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
January 20, 2008

Our friends said we were crazy. Relatives asked whether we were in financial trouble. But in April 2005, my wife and I bailed out of the American dream. We sold our two-bedroom Pasadena condominium and became renters again. ¶ We got nearly three times what we had paid for the place nine years earlier. It seemed to us like a staggering profit — and a sign that the market had been pumped up beyond reason. ¶ That’s why we decided to rent instead of buying another house right away. We wanted a place with a yard and a third bedroom, but we weren’t willing to pay the sky-high price or take out an exotic mortgage to buy something our income did not justify. ¶ So our plan was to take our profit and wait for prices to return to Earth. The madness had to end, we thought. ¶ For a while, we wondered whether we would prove to be the crazy ones as home values in Southern California overall continued rising through last spring. But a closer inspection of real estate sales data shows that signs of trouble were already appearing when we sold.

Condo prices in the ZIP Code where we owned ours peaked a few months after we got out in 2005, at the median price of $480,000 (almost exactly what we got for our place).

But at the time, a lot of people thought we had sold too early. To stay on course, I adopted a personal anthem. It was a Public Enemy song that hit big in 1988 during the previous real estate run-up: “Don’t Believe the Hype.”

The song played in my head constantly. I heard it whenever friends warned me that I would be missing out on massive future gains. The music’s volume went up as real estate agents said that if we stuck to our plan to sell and then rent, we could be priced out of the hot Southern California market for good.

. . .
Orion says:

January 20, 2008 at 8:34 am

International purchases of U.S. businesses, from NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/business/20invest.html?em&ex=1200978000&en=a00d185306319525&ei=5087
Confused In NJ says:

January 20, 2008 at 8:36 am

10. Essex Says:
January 20th, 2008 at 8:15 am
Drug companies are your friends confused, take your meds like a good boy. Long live big pharma

That’s what Goebels told his patients when he started Big Pharma under Hitler.
Willow says:

January 20, 2008 at 8:38 am

OT

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-op-goldberg20jan20,0,3367747.column?coll=la-tot-opinion&track=ntothtml

Taking liberties

Once again, personal choices are under attack by good-for-you government.
January 20, 2008

Remember this? “There is nothing wrong with your television set. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical….”

Younger readers may not remember the opening to “The Outer Limits,” a pretty good sci-fi rip-off of “The Twilight Zone” (and they may have only a fuzzy understanding that TVs used to have knobs to control the horizontal and vertical). But as they read the news these days, maybe they can find a new appreciation for the creepy feeling of powerlessness that opening once gave viewers.

For instance, California is proposing revisions to its housing code that would require all new or remodeled homes to have a “programmable communicating thermostat.” Equipped with special “nonremovable” FM radio receivers, these devices would allow state power authorities to set the temperature in your home as they see fit. Ostensibly to manage demand during “price events” and other “emergencies,” you would basically cede control of your home’s heating and air conditioning to the state (when and if state officials wanted to exercise it).

Taken by itself, this may not sound so scary. But then again, as Gulliver learned, one Lilliputian is an intriguing freak. Two are kind of cool. But 10,000 teeny-weeny folk tying you down?

Of course, tying Americans down, limiting their options, foreclosing on any path not acceptable to today’s social controllers of the right and the left is perhaps the defining spirit of our age.

In New York City, where Mayor Michael Bloomberg has become a champion of a supposedly new “post-partisan” movement of for-your-own-good-government, trans fats are off the menu. Smoking has become the ceremony of heretics and outlaws. In 2006 alone, New York City banned — or attempted to ban — pit bulls; trans fats; aluminum baseball bats; the purchase of tobacco by 18- to 20-year-olds; foie gras; pedicabs in parks; new fast-food restaurants (but only in poor neighborhoods); lobbyists from the floor of council chambers; vehicles in Central and Prospect parks; cellphones in upscale restaurants; the sale of pork products made in a processing plant in Tar Heel, N.C.; mail-order pharmaceutical plans; candy-flavored cigarettes; the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus; and Wal-Mart.

David Harsanyi, author of “Nanny State,” reports that there are “No Running” signs in Florida playgrounds, perhaps to make it easier for the authorities to catch toddlers and outfit them with mandatory helmets, chin guards and corrective shoes.

. . .
Essex says:

January 20, 2008 at 8:50 am

14….confused is looking for a state devoid of big pharma and schools…..can anyone help him?
njpatient says:

January 20, 2008 at 9:14 am

Kettle – in case it wasn’t clear, I really enjoy your apocalyptic posts.

GO JINTS!
njpatient says:

January 20, 2008 at 9:17 am

“14….confused is looking for a state devoid of big pharma and schools…..can anyone help him?”

The Congo?
crossroads says:

January 20, 2008 at 9:30 am

there is a good bike race in high bridge. I think in June
Chuchundra says:

January 20, 2008 at 9:36 am

I don’t know if I’ve mentioned it before, but I’ve got a list of REO links on my site if anyone is interested.

http://homeinbabylon.com/reo-directory/
Clotpoll says:

January 20, 2008 at 9:38 am

x-roads (20)-

There is also a lively town yard sale, where one can pick up vintage copies of Guns & Ammo, Funny Car and Tattoo Aficionado.
Cindy says:

January 20, 2008 at 9:59 am

#11 (Orion) Excellent article by Roger Lowenstein. His new book, “While America Ages” is due out in May they said. A must read for me as I attempt to stay more informed.

The “steering of the bicycle” anaogy helps explain the moderation policy for me. Also, I had forgotten all about J.P. Morgan saving the stock market in 1907. Thanks so much for the link.
lisoosh says:

January 20, 2008 at 10:07 am

Holy Cr@p. I wander off for a couple of days and come back to 3 weekend pages.

I vote prostitution as the only honorable profession remaining. And at least drug dealers goals are patently unambiguous. No hidden agendas there.

Teachers – don’t think they are overpaid, certainly not in terms of basic salaries. Most teachers in my district make around $45k, which is hardly living it up. I would like to see home rule ended and a major cut in ADMINISTRATORS first and foremost as the first step to contolling costs. Free health care for spouses for life is a bit much though, and public servants seem to have pretty generous retirement terms, they certainly retire after less years put in than most people.

Agree with Ann, universal healthcare would make the nation as a whole a lot less scared and neurotic. Would also encourage entrepreneurship.

TOTALLY wonder what happened to $300 jeans guy.

And where is Booyah?
lisoosh says:

January 20, 2008 at 10:10 am

Back to housing – see the GSMLS is jogging happily northward again.
Essex says:

January 20, 2008 at 10:10 am

The Congo. Priceless!

Go Giants!
Sean says:

January 20, 2008 at 10:19 am

Like the original Tower of Babel, the Tower of Derivatives is being built up and up to infinity.

Now we know Bank capital hangs precariously on the cliff of vanishing confidence. Bank Mangers must confident that they can patch up even the largest holes in their balance sheet of banks on capital account, provided that the derivatives tower will not collapse in the meantime.

The big unknown is whether the escalation of counterparty risk will trigger the self-destruction of derivatives before the managers are through. We have touched on counterparty risk here and it is difficult to model.

Here is the Fed strategy to support the banks. The Fed will keep halving the rate interest as many times as necessary. Each halving nearly doubles bank capital.

Bernanake knows it worked in Japan where the government has kept the brain dead Japanese banks in business through thick and thin. The Japanese banking system has been supported by the yen-carry trade as well, another monster that also may unwind.

The American Banking system will continue to be supported by derivatives, trillions and trillions of derivatives.

What will happens if the Tower of Derivatives falls?
Outofstater says:

January 20, 2008 at 10:53 am

“…on the cliff of vanishing confidence.” Exactly! The imagery perfectly describes the feeling out there.
Bloodbath in Winter 2007 says:

January 20, 2008 at 11:12 am

Bummed we can’t make the Feb. 9 meeting.

# grim Says:
January 19th, 2008 at 11:35 am

Otteau says now is an great time to buy.

He isn’t wrong, he’s just too early.

Early as in ‘dead cat bounce’ or early as in ‘it’s almost over.’ We’re targeting the winter of 2008 on the assumption that summer sales will really be terrible, and while some deals can be had now, the truly great ones will be around in about 10 months when we’re in a full-blown recession.
Bloodbath in Winter 2007 says:

January 20, 2008 at 11:17 am

# grim Says:
January 19th, 2008 at 8:58 pm

Nice comp killer in Ridgewood

11 East Glen, Ridgewood NJ
Short sale

Purchased: 8/26/2005
Purchase Price: $560,000

MLS# 2748837
Active
Original List: $549,900
Currently Asking: $499,900

If you look up the location of this house – right near RR tracks, on a heavily-trafficked street – there’s no way I’d take this for over 400k. I don’t give up a shit about the prestigious town or school district … this will be a noisy location with cars zooming by all hours of the day. No thanks.
still_looking says:

January 20, 2008 at 11:19 am

lisoosh 23 – the stranglehold health insurers have on our politicians will absolutely ensure that universal health (in any real sense) will never happen!

Not ever.

The # of uninsured people is climbing yet again.

I know. I see them every working day. My ER is flooded with folks with NO insurance – more now than ever.

The kicker? They go to the local Quick-Stop cash/credit only Doc-in-the-box who run useless tests, xrays (ie generate a large bill and get paid for it.)

Then they send them to us for their real testing and treatment.

Of course, the hospital, radiologist, ER doc and possibly anesthesiology will likely never get paid.

Were lucky we’ll be given a TRUE address or TRUE phone number.

It’s gonna get much worse.

sl
toshiro_mifune says:

January 20, 2008 at 11:20 am

I’m not sure if anyone has posted this yet;

The VP of Fieldstone has killed himself and his wife;
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=5892818
Just me says:

January 20, 2008 at 11:21 am

just in case you have not seen it …!!

Trulia enters online real estate top ten, pulling ahead of Zillow.com
Posted by: Prashant Gopal on January 15
In an increasingly competitive field of real estate Web sites, Trulia is growing at a remarkable pace. The company cracked the top ten most visited real estate sites in December, shooting ahead of even Zillow.com, according to comScore Network Inc.’s most recent report.

From Bus.week
Just me says:

January 20, 2008 at 11:23 am

Can someone give me history on MLS 20741013?

Jakson NJ

thank you!!!
still_looking says:

January 20, 2008 at 11:26 am

PGC (#269) in W/E thread II

Cripes, we have to actually index now!!

Thank you!

sl
All Hype says:

January 20, 2008 at 11:27 am

Little story from a party here in Montclair last nite:

Lady says a friend of hers just bought a bigger house in Montclair and bought before they could sell their current house. They put the current house on the market for $460,000 and found a buyer. Closing day comes around and the buyer no shows on them. They call them and the buyer tells them he does not want the house and to keep th3 $3,000 deposit.

So they reduce the cost of the house to $430,000 and the next buyer cannot get financing on the house so they are out. Meanwhile all this time they got 2 mortgages to pay.

The house is currently sitting at $380,000 and not person has come out to look at it.

I do not have any other details as the woman I spoke with did not give them out.

Just a sample of the tidal wave of misery that will be the RE market of 2008.
Bloodbath in Winter 2007 says:

January 20, 2008 at 11:28 am

Thanks for the link, Chuchundra.

I hope to use it to score something fantastic in Bucks County, PA.

I refused to buy in a state that will be bankrupt in 10-15 years.
still_looking says:

January 20, 2008 at 11:29 am

And thank you Pat, njpatient, and Shore Guy – I just finished scrolling upwards –

I will look at the link -it looks like a good primer (THANKS!)

I am off to work — to stamp out disease and make the world a better place. [sarcasm off]

sl
BC Bob says:

January 20, 2008 at 11:36 am

“Our friends said we were crazy. Relatives asked whether we were in financial trouble. But in April 2005, my wife and I bailed out of the American dream.”

Willow [12],

LOL!! Like Yogi says, dejavu all over again. When I sold the same occured. Friends and family thought I was nuts, they looked at me like I had 3 heads. They were convinced that I either lost my job or owed a s*itload to the bookies. Friends were taking out hel’s and buying 2nd/3rd properties or using the $ to build indoor basketball courts, movie theaters, etc.. They were ready to send me off to Cuckoo’s Nest. How can you sell RE? It never goes down. Why do you want to buy gold? Gold sits and does nothing, RE will be up another 20% next year.

On the opposite side of the spectrum was the old man, the only individual that agreed with me. The same old man who cornered the copper market in 1980. He said, “what the f*ck are you waiting for, sell and short everything related to housing.” I once asked the same old man what was the secret to his success. He said, “I always sold too early”.
kettle1 says:

January 20, 2008 at 12:10 pm

#17 patient,

SO do i now have the reputation of “apocolypse boy” on the board???
Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

January 20, 2008 at 12:18 pm

#33 MLS 20741013…..

Interesting history on this one.

Address is 6 Pepperidge Ct in the Laurel Woods development. Built in 1995, 2228 sq ft., 4 beds, 2.5 bath, 2 car garage, part finished basement, on .68 Acres.

The current listing has been on the market since 10/1/07 at $474K with no price change. However, another realtor had it listed from 2/07 thru 9/07 starting at $529K dropping to $499K and no takers.

Tax records show that this is the original owners, having paid $195K for it as new. Similar homes in that area of Jackson Twp are selling in the $450K range.
njpatient says:

January 20, 2008 at 12:19 pm

39 ket

Likely – I’ve been called Chicken Little twice myself in the past two weeks.
Chuchundra says:

January 20, 2008 at 12:23 pm

I may have mentioned this before, but Mark Kleiman, professor of public policy at UCLA, blogged about speculatively selling his home back in May of 2005. That was really my first real external confirmation that something was seriously wrong with the housing market.

Speculative selling in the LA housing market

I’m selling for purely speculative reasons; I’m going short the Los Angeles housing market. That is, I’m planning to rent, and perhaps to buy back in when housing prices bear a more reasonable relationship to incomes.

If I bought the place today at what I just sold it for, and financed it 100% at the 5.75% a fixed-rate mortgage now costs, my pre-tax interest payments would be about two-thirds of my pre-tax UCLA salary. That seems excessive.
Shore Guy says:

January 20, 2008 at 12:28 pm

The recent run up in RE prices strikes me as similar to the insane efforts some people have been making to obtain Hanah Montana concert tickets. Ther is little that justifies paying huge sums for them other than a feeling that if one does not buy them now one may NEVER get to see her; pitty. At a certain point, I expect people will look at themselves and say WTF was I thinking, the show is not worth even half of what I paid for it. At theat point scalpers may try to hang on for top-dollar prices, but, shortly before the show begins, they will slash prices to avoid taking a bath. That seems to be where we are right now in RE. I don’t know how close to show time we are but as we get closer the deals will come fast and furiously.
Confused In NJ says:

January 20, 2008 at 12:43 pm

Essex, enjoy your Drugs made in China

FDA Scrutiny Scant In India, China as Drugs Pour Into U.S.
Broad Overseas Checks Called Too Costly

By Marc Kaufman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, June 17, 2007; Page A01

India and China, countries where the Food and Drug Administration rarely conducts quality-control inspections, have become major suppliers of low-cost drugs and drug ingredients to American consumers. Analysts say their products are becoming pervasive in the generic and over-the-counter marketplace.

Over the past seven years, amid explosive growth in imports from India and China, the FDA conducted only about 200 inspections of plants in those countries, and a few were the kind that U.S. firms face regularly to ensure that the drugs they make are of high quality.

The agency, which is responsible for ensuring the safety of drugs for Americans wherever they are manufactured, made 1,222 of these quality-assurance inspections in the United States last year. In India, which has more plants making drugs and drug ingredients for American consumers than any other foreign nation, it conducted a handful.

Companies based in India were bit players in the American drug market 10 years ago, selling just eight generic drugs here. Today, almost 350 varieties and strengths of antidepressants, heart medicines, antibiotics and other drugs purchased by American consumers are made by Indian manufacturers.

Five years ago, Chinese drugmakers exported about $300 million worth of products to the United States. Eager to meet Americans’ demand for lower-cost medicines, they, too, have expanded rapidly. Last year, they sold more than $675 million in pharmaceutical ingredients and products in the U.S. market.

After the pet food scandal that triggered fears over the safety of human and animal foods imported from China, experts say medicines from that country and from India pose a similar risk of being contaminated, counterfeit or simply understrength and ineffective.

“As the manufacturing goes to China and India, the risk to human health is growing exponentially,” said Brant Zell, past chairman of the Bulk Pharmaceuticals Task Force. The group represents American drug-ingredient makers that filed a citizen’s petition with the FDA last year asking the agency to oversee foreign firms more aggressively.

“The low level there” of follow-up inspections, “combined with the huge amount of importing, greatly increases the potential that consumers will get products that have impurities or ineffective ingredients,” he said.

FDA officials say that they are not aware of any health problems caused by drugs imported from India or China and that the American companies that import them usually do their own quality and safety testing. But the agency acknowledges that it is virtually impossible for it to know whether poor-quality or contaminated drugs from lightly regulated Asian plants have caused patients to get sicker or remain ill, especially because patients and doctors are unlikely to suspect poorly manufactured drugs as a problem.

What is clear is that the odds are growing rapidly that the contents of an American medicine cabinet will hold products from the two countries.

Analysts estimate that as much as 20 percent of finished generic and over-the-counter drugs, and more than 40 percent of the active ingredients for pills made here, come from India and China. Within 15 years, they predict, as much as 80 percent of the key ingredients will come from those countries — which are quickly becoming attractive to brand-name drugmakers, too.

William Hubbard, a former FDA associate commissioner, called the situation dire and deteriorating.
Confused In NJ says:

January 20, 2008 at 12:59 pm

Democratic leaders are considering a $500 rebate for individuals, according to aides involved in the talks. Details for couples and people with children are being negotiated.

Democrats also are looking at ways to make sure more of the poor get the rebates. Lawmakers hope Bush can accept plans under consideration to give the rebates to tens of millions of filers who would not get checks under the White House approach.

To this end, the rebates could be limited to individuals with incomes of $85,000 or less and couples with incomes of $110,000 or less, said congressional aides, speaking on condition of anonymity because no final decisions had been made.
JBJB says:

January 20, 2008 at 1:03 pm

I have recently changed jobs and my new employer has an office in NW Bergen (Allendale). I have an office there but do to the fact that I travel a lot I only spend 1-2 days/week there. Anyway, a lot of the folks there live in NW Bergen (mainly Ridgewood, Midland Park, Wyckoff, etc). The cult mentality amongst the home owners is simply astonishing. I let it slip to one guy (a lawyer) that we were considering a move and the next thing I know I have a non-stop of flow of people into my office to tell me about the benefits of owning in Bergen County and how there is no place like it on earth. To a person they mention how I shouldn’t’ fret paying more because of “The Schools” and “Access to the City”.

Collusion to say the least.
njpatient says:

January 20, 2008 at 1:13 pm

42
Kleiman’s been writing a really good blog for a good six years now – it’s worth a daily read
njpatient says:

January 20, 2008 at 1:15 pm

43
It’s called “signalling”; they don’t think the tickets are worth the money so much as they want their friends to know they can afford to pay.
Conspicuous consumption often exists purely for status purposes.
Just me says:

January 20, 2008 at 1:19 pm

40,,thank you very much …..it is interesting!!! HMM ,,:)
Fiddy Cents on the Dollar says:

January 20, 2008 at 1:24 pm

6 Pepperidege, Jackson….

If I were you, I would certainly follow that one closely but make no move on it til spring. My feeling is….if it’s been on the market since Feb 2007 and hasn’t moved, it probably isn’t going anywhere soon.
Just me says:

January 20, 2008 at 1:30 pm

Fiddy ,,,,,why till spring???
And thanks again ..appriciate your attention and advice .
Just me says:

January 20, 2008 at 1:34 pm

Fiddy ,,,ps; there are a lots of prefoclosures and foreclosures in Jackson today ..:( think about 350 :(
bi says:

January 20, 2008 at 1:35 pm

How to solve this equation?

Citi 2008 = Lucent 2003
Fortress 2008 = Enron 2003
BC Bob says:

January 20, 2008 at 1:35 pm

“Likely – I’ve been called Chicken Little twice myself in the past two weeks.’

patient,

I would rather be scared chicken s*its than a dead duck.
BC Bob says:

January 20, 2008 at 1:41 pm

“The big unknown is whether the escalation of counterparty risk will trigger the self-destruction of derivatives before the managers are through. We have touched on counterparty risk here and it is difficult to model.”

“What will happens if the Tower of Derivatives falls?”

Sean [26],

Bingo. RE pales in comparison to the possible repercussions pertaining to this fiasco.
Confused In NJ says:

January 20, 2008 at 1:45 pm

Bogota ex-mayor arrested at toll protest
Sunday, January 20, 2008
BY JOE DONOHUE
Star-Ledger Staff
Former Bogota Mayor Steven Lonegan was arrested yesterday during a small protest outside a school in Cape May County where Gov. Jon Corzine was pitching his plan to fix the state’s finances by increasing highway tolls.

Lonegan, an outspoken conservative best known for his unflinching stance against illegal immigration, was among some 10 toll opponents waving placards and distributing pamphlets outside Middle Township High School at 1:30 p.m. when they were confronted by local police.

Officers ordered the protesters to put down their signs, and Lonegan refused, saying he would have to be arrested first.

Police handcuffed him along with fellow protester Seth Grossman, a Somers Point lawyer and radio personality. They were charged with trespassing, said Middle Township Police Lt. Paul Fritsch.

“This was an all-out attack on freedom of speech,” said Lonegan, who in 2005 unsuccessfully sought the Republican nomination for governor.

Corzine said he said he did not order the arrest.

“I think protests and speaking your mind is what democracy is all about, and I support it,” he said.

Placards are typically banned from demonstrations in Middle Township, and school board members had asked police to approach the protesters yesterday, Fritsch said.

Longeman and Grossman were released within an hour of their arrest, police said. Grossman made it back to the high school in time to grill Corzine on the toll hike plan.
Shore Guy says:

January 20, 2008 at 1:56 pm

“To this end, the rebates could be limited to individuals with incomes of $85,000 or less and couples with incomes of $110,000 or less, said congressional aides, speaking on condition of anonymity because…..”

THEY FEAR A BACKLASH FROM THE UPPER 5% OF EARNERS WHO ACTUALLY PAY 80% OF THE TAXES AND RESENT HAVING THEIR POCKETS PICKED TO BAIL OUT PEOPLE WHO MADE BAD CHOICES IN LIFE AND WANT A HANDOUT TO KEEP MISPRICED ASSETS MISPRICED????????????????
Shore Guy says:

January 20, 2008 at 2:02 pm

OH YEA, and that upper 5% also makes most of the reelection campaign contributions and also funds 529 groups who might arise to run ads against them?
lisoosh says:

January 20, 2008 at 2:03 pm

“still_looking Says:
January 20th, 2008 at 11:19 am
lisoosh 23 – the stranglehold health insurers have on our politicians will absolutely ensure that universal health (in any real sense) will never happen!

Not ever.”

You’re probably right, and that is sad because the system as it stands is so abysmal – the ONLY ones doing well are the insurance companies.

Hospitals lose, doctors lose, small businesses lose because they are less competitive, entrepreneurship is strangled, patients lose and the country is held hostage.

And the sheeple are prevented from making a stink about it with scare stories about “socialized medicine” (which is something completely different), communism and the bull idea that universal healthcare would somehow limit their choices.

I tend to think the American people are getting exactly what they deserve.
mikeinwaiting says:

January 20, 2008 at 2:12 pm

Shore 57 Not that I disagree,but 500 bucks isn’t going to bail these people out or keep the assets from falling(Homes).It will just put
100 bil in the hands of people who are adicted to spending.What better way to get the economy
moving.Oh I forgot we don’t have the money we are giving out & are in deep debt already.
Another brilliant plan from both sides of the aisle.Isn’t great when both parties work together to “F” up some more.
Shore Guy says:

January 20, 2008 at 2:19 pm

# 60 Indeed. It as another feel-good effort that will do little but increase the debt, which is already strangling the ability of the USG to invest for the future, and will encourage more of the same bad behavior that got people in the mess they are in now. It is cynacism masquerading as positive and productive public policy. There was a time when the public would have demanded more from our elected representatives.
mikeinwaiting says:

January 20, 2008 at 2:22 pm

Lisooh 59 The only thing I fear is people going to Docs for every little thing.I see this in my own fam.which is large 36 1st cousins on 1 side.
The slightest thing go to doc in for test which
they don’t pay for.If everything was free would people over run the system?
Cindy says:

January 20, 2008 at 2:44 pm

(62) mikeinwaiting “If everything was free would people over run the system?”

? co-pays ? Once they added $20.00 co-pays to our system the visits went way down…
Confused In NJ says:

January 20, 2008 at 2:52 pm

Actually, Corrupted Non Regulated Drugs may solve a lot of the Entitlement Funding Issues;

FDA officials say that they are not aware of any health problems caused by drugs imported from India or China and that the American companies that import them usually do their own quality and safety testing. But the agency acknowledges that it is virtually impossible for it to know whether poor-quality or contaminated drugs from lightly regulated Asian plants have caused patients to get sicker or remain ill, especially because patients and doctors are unlikely to suspect poorly manufactured drugs as a problem.

What is clear is that the odds are growing rapidly that the contents of an American medicine cabinet will hold products from the two countries.

Analysts estimate that as much as 20 percent of finished generic and over-the-counter drugs, and more than 40 percent of the active ingredients for pills made here, come from India and China. Within 15 years, they predict, as much as 80 percent of the key ingredients will come from those countries — which are quickly becoming attractive to brand-name drugmakers, too.

William Hubbard, a former FDA associate commissioner, called the situation dire and deteriorating.
Confused In NJ says:

January 20, 2008 at 2:58 pm

63. Cindy;

? co-pays ? Once they added $20.00 co-pays to our system the visits went way down…

Our visit’s dropped, when they added 100% co-pay up to first six thousand or so. It definately works. If you make the people pay the first $15K or so, out of pocket, there will be fewer visits, even with Universal Healthcare.
mikeinwaiting says:

January 20, 2008 at 2:58 pm

Cindy 63 Its not the visit to docs that are really costly its 3-4 hundred in blood work & thousands for test that cost.But 20 bucks isn’t going to stop most from going to get checked out & getting tested for every little thing.
The boomers will eat that system up.Nothing is really free sombody will have to pay for it.AH the gov will pay,but where do thay get the money.WE/they are broke now,should we put some more wood on the fire.I like the idea of health care for all but we have to fund it.
Ambrose says:

January 20, 2008 at 3:20 pm

While we wait out the market, we’re considering renting a house in the town where we’re looking to buy. Are there any guidelines when it comes to evaluating rental prices?
Cindy says:

January 20, 2008 at 3:24 pm

(65) confused (66) mikeinwaiting….
Any idea what sort of proposals those who are advocates have?
syncmaster says:

January 20, 2008 at 3:32 pm

lisoosh #59

I tend to think the American people are getting exactly what they deserve.

Oh yeah. President Hill. Exactly what we deserve.
Confused In NJ says:

January 20, 2008 at 3:37 pm

68. Cindy;

Those running for office haven’t really given specific details, although at one point an editorial on Clinton’s indicated she would penalize people with bad habits, e.g. smoking, drinking, drugs, weight, etc. Sort of like Healthcare for the Healthy. That may not hold cost’s down though. Mike’s Hypochondriacs, who want to live forever, with revolving door visits, are quite expensive. The doctors visit is manageable, the tests and drugs are killers. My MD at 2007 Annual Physical insisted I get a Nuclear Stress Test because of Cholesterol. It was $16K, of which I paid $2.5K. Test results were Normal. That’s the fourth expensive test, WellCare has dictated in it’s Cholesterol Quest, to find a problem which doesn’t exist. I finally dumped my Vytorin 1/07, when it made my Liver Enzymes go haywire.
lisoosh says:

January 20, 2008 at 3:57 pm

Mike –

Medicare admin costs are somewhere around 5%. Private insurance companies around 30%. Add in profits, dividends and outrageous CEO paychecks and it is clear that the current system is less than efficient. Just cutting back on all those useless expenses would pay for plenty. Privatising didn’t make things more efficient, it introduced the profit motive to the arena of life and death decisions.

Cindy is right – a copay would cut down on useless visits, and since when did patients decide which tests they get? That is more a result of prime time dramas and drug company advertising than actual need.

I just don’t see the upside to the current mess.

-Small companies can’t attract the best people because they can’t insure them effectively or offer the same benefits.
-Costs of insurance hobble US companies in the global economy.
-Uninsured visits to the ER waste precious resources and money when a cheap and low cost clinic for routine visits and preventative healthcare would be more effective.
-The uninsured who pay for visits don’t get the same rates as insurance companies so they effectively subsidise the insured.
-Nobody is negotiating with Pharma for better prices, so US residents subsidise the rest of the world.
-Customers DON”T get to choose. They are stuck with the insurer their company picks. If the service sucks they can’t vote with their feet and go elsewhere so there is no impetus to improve service.
-If a company switches insurers, workers frequently have the headache of switching doctors, which is annoying and actually dangerous. It is better to have the same doctor who knows your full history than to constantly switch.
-Workers are tied to jobs because of insurance.
-Entrepreneurship is hobbled because many potential innovators won’t leave the “safe” job.
-The largest reason for bancruptcy in this country (maybe except for the potential in the current bubble) is major illness. Plenty of insured people have found that they suddenly weren’t insured when it came to their cancer or other life threatening disease.
-Doctors spend way too much time dealing with insurance issues and not enough time on patients.

So we put up with all of this cr@p because of fear that some people might go to the doctor more than we like?
The entire country is being held hostage by “I got mine, I don’t want the other guy to get some too” or fear of being a sucker.

NOBODY does well under the current system except for an army of medical billers and the CEO’s of insurance companies with their multi million dollar salaries.
Bloodbath in Winter 2007 says:

January 20, 2008 at 4:10 pm

JBJB – Good anecdote. In the spring of 2007, when a move looked imminent, we drove out to Bergen to look at some houses (more the area than inside) we had been monitoring.

Turns out the 5-10 houses in the 400k-500k range in Ridgewood, Glen Rock, etc were all on a main road with double yellow lines. None of them were homes you want to raise kids in, simply because you’d fear for them playing in their own yard. We were saddened.

And then we saw a nice house on a quiet street. Called up the realtor because no price was listed. We figured the house would be in the 500-600k range. The realtor told us: $790k. We were floored. This was a 3/2 with a small yard. Less than 2000 sq feet.

At that point, it hit us: no way we’re going to NJ. We’d rather get jobs making slightly less money in PA (Bucks County). Just 90 mins from the city, and some of the schools are rated well on this Newsweek list.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/39380/
John says:

January 20, 2008 at 4:13 pm

“We’re still on the way down in housing,” said Ellen Zentner, an economist at Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd. in New York. “The first half of the year is going to be crucial to determining whether we have a recession.”

Sales of existing homes probably dropped 13 percent last year, the most since 1989, according to a forecast by the real- estate agents group.
jmacdaddio says:

January 20, 2008 at 4:14 pm

Malcolm Gladwell had an interesting article in the New Yorker about universal health care, available on his site (http://www.gladwell.com/2005/2005_08_29_a_hazard.html). The problem with our system is that moral hazard permeates every nook and cranny. Insurance is designed to redistribute risk across the population as a whole. Our system is designed to provide individuals with disincentives to seek treatment at every turn. Health insurance in the US really isn’t insurance; it’s pre-paying for health care which you may or may not use in a given year, and the health insurance companies have every incentive to find ways to deny claims.
Cindy says:

January 20, 2008 at 4:18 pm

(72) lisooh -Let me say first, I don’t know much about this and you do. I figured all of that advertising they started on TV a few years back was costing everybody.

We have “well child” clinics at 2 of our elementary schools. You can get immunizations, check for ear infections etc. to cut down on doctor’s visits. They are trying to expand that. I don’t know the details.

When they presented the stats to a faculty senate meeting re our doctor visits, we were at 165% of the industry average. Once they put in the $20. co-pay, that immediately dropped. They said research showed it was more effective than even premiums because premiums tended to make you feel as though “you may as well go to the doctor, you were paying for it each month.”

As I said, I don’t know much about it. I appreciate you explaining your view.
jmacdaddio says:

January 20, 2008 at 4:23 pm

Interestingly the Swiss system functions sort of like the auto insurance model where it’s mandatory (you can get subsidized coverage if you are dirt poor). You have your choice among a half dozen or so providers, and they are only allowed to use your age and postcode to determine your premium. The rates are reasonable … something like a couple hundred dollars for a family per month. The postcode is used because in the ritzier areas doctors need to charge more due to higher operating costs, so residents of these regions need to kick in more. A coworker who spent a couple of years in Switzerland explained this system to me, so I am no expert, however it seems like a welcome alternative to dealing with the insurance nightmare in the USA.
lisoosh says:

January 20, 2008 at 4:40 pm

Sorry for the double(ish) post, my system doesn’t tell me when I am in moderation.

Cindy – all sounds quite sensible. I agree, when people have insurance, they tend to feel they already pay so they want to get their money’s worth, a very astute observation.

Confused – penalizing smokers etc – France pays for its system in part through taxes on things like cigarettes and alcohol. In other words, the people who engage in activities which would make them less healthy, and need more medical services, actually pay more. Quite sensible really.
3b says:

January 20, 2008 at 5:11 pm

#73 bloodbath Those houses on the busy streets would have been 500-600K or more in 05 early 06.

This is how it started last time, same this time.

The houses in the less desireable locations fall first, then the declines spread inward from there. Be patient.

By the way as desireable as Glen Rock migh bte, it is filled with busy streets.
Confused In NJ says:

January 20, 2008 at 5:14 pm

78.lisoosh Says:
January 20th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Sorry for the double(ish) post, my system doesn’t tell me when I am in moderation.

Confused – penalizing smokers etc – France pays for its system in part through taxes on things like cigarettes and alcohol. In other words, the people who engage in activities which would make them less healthy, and need more medical services, actually pay more. Quite sensible really.

The problem with identifying SINS as a delimeter is where do you stop. The CDC say’s Obeisity will shortly be causing a Diabetis & Cardio epedemic within America and will surpass Smoking, at it’s height. Granted we could isolate Smokers, Drinkers, Overweight People, Drug Users, Deviant sexual Behavior purveyors, Couch Potatoes, etc., but when you get to the end of the list, how many are left to be covered. If you look at Lung Cancer, as an example, 50% of the people with it never smoked. If you look at Heart Attacks as an example, 50% of the people with it have Normal Cholesterol Levels.

Years ago when Blue Cross/Blue Shield became For Profit, the hand writing was on the Wall, Medicine was “For Profit” as it’s primary motive.
I think one reason was, as we gave up our Manufacturing Society, we groped for Service type jobs to replace it. One segment is the additional layers of Administrative Medical Overhead that separates the Patient from the Doctor.
Confused In NJ says:

January 20, 2008 at 5:29 pm

76. Cindy Says:
January 20th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
(72) lisooh -Let me say first, I don’t know much about this and you do. I figured all of that advertising they started on TV a few years back was costing everybody.

John Edwards wants to eliminate Drug Advertising. His statistics indicate it is a larger part of Big Pharmas budget then R&D. So, if eliminated it would theoreticaly halve the price of drugs, and annoy much fewer people who don’t care if Dr Jarvik owes his heart to Lipitor.
Jase Rion says:

January 20, 2008 at 5:56 pm

happy new year! hope all is well. for me, time to look for a home again!

please kindly look up this MLS# 2465402 for me. thank you much!
Clotpoll says:

January 20, 2008 at 5:57 pm

lisoosh (59)-

The real truth is that there is a radical and exhaustive treatment for every ailment under the sun…however, there’s no way that every American- or insurance company- can pay for it in every circumstance.

That leads to the only logical conclusion that can be drawn: rationing of healthcare is the only approach that will lead to cost certainty/containment.

Here’s a book that’s well-worth the read- written by the former governor of Colorado- who has been drummed out of politics forever because of his views on healthcare:

http://cafescicolorado.org/Lamm.htm
lostinny says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:07 pm

78
lisoosh Says:

Confused – penalizing smokers etc – France pays for its system in part through taxes on things like cigarettes and alcohol. In other words, the people who engage in activities which would make them less healthy, and need more medical services, actually pay more. Quite sensible really.

While I personally might agree with this, it would never fly here. Imagine the lawsuits when obese people are told they have to pay more then thinner people. They will say its discrimination against them. They cannot see that they actually do use more services when it comes to healthcare. Anyone who doubts me just needs to see Morgan Spurlock’s “Supersize Me” for what happens to him and others in the film.
Confused In NJ says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:15 pm

83. Clotpoll

Lamm proposes six essential elements of health care reform:

1.Providing access for all to a base level of health care.
2.Developing a means of limiting the use of procedures that are ineffective or marginally effective, or that are effective but too expensive.
3.Coming to a consensus on social and individual health care priorities.
4.Placing limitations on malpractice suits.
5.Controlling the health care bureaucracy.
6.Placing limitations on the supply side of health care

Number 2 is a very interesting point made by Lamm. The majority of Oncologists when polled, if they contracted Cancer, would not submit to their own Chemotherapies. Primarily because of side effects, and being ineffective for most Cancers. In July 2003 a Wisconsin Oncologist, discussing Chemotherapy for Melanoma, said; We seem to have forgotten the Primary Rule of Medicine, “First Do No Harm”.
Ruby says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:21 pm

I’ve been lurking for awhile and have a question about RealtyTrac.

Is it worth the money as a source for REOs? It seems like it would provide access to a centralized and comprehensive list of bank owned properties. I know the same information is available on individual bank websites, but I worry that I might miss a property if I skip a lender’s site.

Thanks
thunderbolt says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:24 pm

Jarvick is not an MD.
vince says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:26 pm

Anybody has any inputs about the condos at Grande at Hanover by D R Horton. The selling prices are just way off considering the current housing market and the economic conditions. Initial plan was for 16 buildings but only two are build. The swimming pool and recreation center is not done. Whenever the remaining buildings are done it will further depress prices of the condos.
Thanks
lisoosh says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:26 pm

Confused/lostinny

While I agree that targeting PEOPLE who would be deemed high risk is wrought with issues, targeting high risk products and behaviours is another issue entirely, because it gives people a choice.

Tax cigarettes and people can choose not to smoke.
Tax alcohol and they can choose to drink less (or go to AA).

I admit obesity is the biggest issue and is a little harder to target but a place to start could be with taxing the petroleum derivative garbage they put into junk food. It certainly wouldn’t hurt if Ho Ho’s and Ring Dings and Twinkies were a little more expensive and the people gorging on them are probably heavier anyway.
As it is, the junky garbage is cheaper than healthier alternatives which just encourages its consumption.

Again, you would have to target riskier behaviours rather than people, thus you are not discriminating.
lisoosh says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:30 pm

“Confused In NJ Says:

John Edwards wants to eliminate Drug Advertising. His statistics indicate it is a larger part of Big Pharmas budget then R&D. So, if eliminated it would theoreticaly halve the price of drugs, and annoy much fewer people who don’t care if Dr Jarvik owes his heart to Lipitor.”

And stop people from insisting they HAVE to have drug X because they saw it on the TV.
lostinny says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:32 pm

89 Lisoosh
That’s a great point and ideally, the way to go. But I know I’d be pretty upset that my chocolate addiction would make me sick because my cookies might be $10 a bag. Those that can partake in what’s targeted and use moderation are also then penalized. C’est la vie.
Ann says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:34 pm

lisoosh 89

And if the governmentt stopped subsidizing all of that corn and subsequently high fructose corn syrup, that would improve health also.
Ann says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:36 pm

85 Confused

Oncologists make SO much money on chemo (it’s given as an in-office procedure obviously, so they pocket massive profit).

They will give it to even the sickest of patients who don’t have a chance. All it does is make them dreadfully sick and ruin the few weeks or months that they have left.
Lucy says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:36 pm

#88

I did go to look at the condos at Grande.
Definitely not worth. They are 2 BRs with high prices, high taxes and high condo maintenance fee. The BRs are small and poor space planning on the inside. Besides the whole place looks like a construction zone. High risk for families with small children because of close proxmity to Rte 10 and construction material all around.

Luce
gary says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:36 pm

3 hours ’till the end of Brett Favre’s career.
Ann says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:39 pm

Re rationing

I have family in Canada and many of them have had chronic and terminal illness, and I didn’t see any difference in the care they received versus care here in the U.S. They are very proud of their healthcare system.

And even in countries with universal health care, the super rich can buy supplemental insurance and of course, pay cash for what they want, so they need not worry.
Cindy says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:44 pm

(83) Clotpoll -The Brave New World of Health Care” -excellent synopsis – now that’s looking at the big picture.
bi says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:44 pm

23#
clinton should add this to her next speech.

>Agree with Ann, universal healthcare would make the nation as a whole a lot less scared and neurotic. Would also encourage entrepreneurship.
Lucy says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:46 pm

#88

I did go to look at the condos at Grande at Hanover.
The sales person mentioned that construction for the pool and recreation center will be started after 6 months. However, I am not very optimistic about it and it totally depends on whether D R Horton survives bankruptcy.

Lucy
lisoosh says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:51 pm

Ann #92 – Agree wholeheartedly. Right now our tax dollars go towards general ill health and obesity and making a few farmers better off.

Clot #82 –

Very interesting, and I would say that I agree with him. I especially like this quote in the blurb;

” But the United States already has the worst form of rationing—rationing by leaving people out of the system— that makes our system one of the most unethical in the world.””

There is a strong need in this country to getting back to basics.

From what I have read elsewhere, a great deal of the total cost of healthcare we consume is in the last few months of life – on emergency procedures and hospitalization for the very elderly who are essentially dying. It would make a lot more sense to go back to the Victorian concept of a “good death”, encourage hospice and making peoples last days comfortable rather than plugged into machines in an effort to squeeze out a few more minutes from a broken body.

I don’t understand spending tens of thousands on life support for a couple of days when that money could adequetely fund immunizations and preventative care for the young.

Lost #91 – true, but the guy eating a couple of pounds of chocolate cookies a day would be contributing a whole lot more….
YankeeGal says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:57 pm

#88, #94, #99 (Re: Grande at Hanover)

Is the address for those condos Brook Hollow Drive? According to the Daily Record real estate transfers (which I check religiously every Sunday) at least one or two of these have been selling every week for the past month or two for around $400K-$450K. I don’t get it.
YankeeGal says:

January 20, 2008 at 6:59 pm

#88, #94, #99 (Re: Grande at Hanover)

Sorry hit “Submit Comment” too soon

I mean, I don’t get it, why are people buying these? What a lousy location! And who the heck is buying those condos/townhouses on Route 46 in Parsippany… the ones on the west side of the road when you get off of 80 on to 46… they’re facing the highway!!!!
vince says:

January 20, 2008 at 7:14 pm

#102 (Re: Grande at Hanover)

I for one is totally surprised at fools who cannot find better house for their money. The location is horrible.

Vince
vince says:

January 20, 2008 at 7:16 pm

#102 (Re: Grande at Hanover)

If you go by the rent to own calculator. Nothing more than $325K should be paid for those condos.
rhymingrealtor says:

January 20, 2008 at 7:29 pm

and annoy much fewer people who don’t care if Dr Jarvik owes his heart to Lipitor.

That commercial does’nt annoy me, however hearing about 4 hour erections and looking at old people in 2 bathtubs holding hands, or finding out it’s okay to get interuppted becaue ci#allis is ready when you are. That annoys me, and the knowledge that some insurance companies pay for this stuff, that’s really annoying.
Essex says:

January 20, 2008 at 7:39 pm

NYC is a media center. Advertising pays the bills for a lot of people. Let’s eliminate yet another revenue stream for more Americans.
Ann says:

January 20, 2008 at 7:42 pm

rr 105

Are you saying that insurance cos shouldn’t pay for ED meds? Blasphemy!

Birth control pills, well, maybe we’ll pay for em, maybe not. But don’t touch my ED pills.
Ann says:

January 20, 2008 at 7:43 pm

100 lisoosh

Amen on your comments about a good death.
Confused In NJ says:

January 20, 2008 at 7:57 pm

106. Essex;

And in the case of Drug Advertising, the Parasites are drawing that money out of the pockets of American people who do real work.
Essex says:

January 20, 2008 at 8:14 pm

Yeah they also make a huge difference to the local economy, but the Congo on the other hand can use a guy like you.
scribe says:

January 20, 2008 at 8:17 pm

Ruby, #86

Here’s a link to a Web site that lists a lot of the bank REO sites:

http://homeinbabylon.com/reo-directory/
scribe says:

January 20, 2008 at 8:19 pm

Ruby,

Re realtytrac, other people here who know this stuff better have voiced the opinion that the fees are not worthwhile because by the time they list foreclosures, etc., the better ones have already been picked off by the pros.

The standard advice seems to be that if you’re interested in buying a foreclosure or REO, to check the courthouse for lis pendens filings.
Essex says:

January 20, 2008 at 8:29 pm

Go Giants.
Confused In NJ says:

January 20, 2008 at 8:32 pm

Essex; What is your fascination with the Congo? Is that your original birthplace?
John says:

January 20, 2008 at 8:45 pm

RE “Our friends said we were crazy. Relatives asked whether we were in financial trouble. But in April 2005, my wife and I bailed out of the American dream.”

Who did they sell to? If they sold to some poor unsuspecting couple just starting out at peak prices to saddle them with debt for the rest of the life they made money like a crack dealer. Houses like stocks you can’t sell at peak and cash out without knowing who bought. When we sold my Mom’s house near peak we avoided nice couples with 5% down and was lucky to findy some shady flipper to sell to. We had to cash out but did not want to screw a nice young couple.
John says:

January 20, 2008 at 8:48 pm

Asian stocks declined Monday, tracking the fall on Wall Street, with Australian shares extending losses into an 11th session on resource firms such as Rio Tinto, while Japanese stocks plummeted on financials such as Sompo Japan Insurance.

Hey BTW in Newsday today a Lattington Estate was advertised at 1.9 million and ad said house appraised 2.9 at peak. One million down. Nice.
Clotpoll says:

January 20, 2008 at 9:07 pm

kl (105)-

As I discovered last time thie conversation turned to healthcare, the world’s #1 purchaser of ED medications is General Motors.
gary says:

January 20, 2008 at 10:30 pm

Brett Favre’s career is over.
Essex says:

January 20, 2008 at 10:31 pm

114…………no I’m from Illinois…..congratulations to the NFC Champions The New York Giants.
Essex says:

January 20, 2008 at 10:32 pm

Brett was/is a warrior…he played the game with heart.
JBJB says:

January 20, 2008 at 10:38 pm

“Brett Favre’s career is over.”

Yea, what a clunker, horrible way for him to end his career (I mean that terrible pick in OT). I think the cold really effected him, even though he has played up there for a while, his body motion just didn’t look right. He was stiff as a board. Eli looked fine, as the cold really didn’t seem to effect him at all.

In the end the Pack deserved to loose, they didn’t seem like they really wanted it.

I will be rooting for the Giants next week, for probably the first time in my life. Would love to see them beat the Pats.
RentinginNJ says:

January 20, 2008 at 10:52 pm

Brett Favre’s career is over.

I have a lot of respect for Favre. If this is really it for him, what a terrible play to end such a great career.

And what a turnaround for the Giants. Just a month ago, the discussion was around whether the end was nigh for Eli and Coughlin.
Confused In NJ says:

January 20, 2008 at 10:55 pm

68. Cindy Says:
January 20th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
(65) confused (66) mikeinwaiting….
Any idea what sort of proposals those who are advocates have

Hillary’s current H.C. proposal seems to charge for the Universal Healthcare, sliding scale, based upon income. So, those earning or saving more, will pay more. Her main earnings driver is eliminating the tax breaks for higher income earners, by bringing back two tax tiers. Her PDF.

Not sure if it’s accurate but one editorial required you to get annual physicals and follow doctors instructions, or else. Didn’t like that one at all.

I guess I can live with being penalized for saving. Always suspected my 401K was for them, not me, anyway. Don’t like authoritarian medicine at all. But, I guess we are all eligible to use the Indian Method, when the time comes. It’s free.
BC Bob says:

January 20, 2008 at 10:55 pm

“Who did they sell to? If they sold to some poor unsuspecting couple just starting out at peak prices to saddle them with debt for the rest of the life they made money like a crack dealer.”

John,

One of the most bizzare posts that I have read on this site. Next time you put out a market order for a stock, which the market is willing to pay $100, do yourself a favor, pull back your order and sell it at $50. Go ahead and be a smuck, sell it at 50% less than the market is willing to pay. What a bunch of BS.
BC Bob says:

January 20, 2008 at 10:59 pm

John,

By the way, I sold to to a “sophisticated” bond broker, who put down 300K. Unsuspecting, my a##.
Confused In NJ says:

January 20, 2008 at 11:02 pm

Essex, if you’re planning to go to the Congo, following is what you’ll have to deal with;

On July 30, 2007, a report by Yakin Erturk, special rapporteur for the United Nations Human Rights Council on violence against women, found extreme sexual violence against women is pervasive in the DRC and local authorities do little to stop it or prosecute those responsible. Her report also found ‘women are gang raped, often in front of their families and communities. In numerous cases, male relatives are forced at gun point to rape their own daughters, mothers or sisters.’ Survivors told Ertuck that after rape, many women are held as slaves by the gangs and forced to eat excrement or the flesh of their murdered relatives
Essex says:

January 20, 2008 at 11:07 pm

Confused with another one that sails right over the heads of ‘not confused’ people.
Bloodbath in Winter 2007 says:

January 20, 2008 at 11:17 pm

From that tremendous piece on Bernake in the NYT this weekend (it’s on the most emailed list):

“Bernanke also has strong reasons to worry, however, about easing rates too much. Inflation has failed to fall as the Fed expected. (In fact, lately it has been rising.) Also, lower interest rates induce foreigners to switch out of dollar-denominated investments like Treasuries and into currencies with higher yields. Thus, any rate cut would tend to escalate the stampede out of the dollar.”

What would be the most likely result if instead of cutting rates, Bernake did absolutely nothing?
HEHEHE says:

January 20, 2008 at 11:19 pm

I was rooting for the Pack. Don’t really hate the Giants though. I hope they beat the sh*t out of Butt-chin Brady and Mr Hoodie. I hate the Patriots with a passion. That team is talented but they are by far the luckiest team in the world year in and year out. Frigging ball always bounces their way and they act like it’s all hard work and genius. Spare me.
MJ says:

January 20, 2008 at 11:19 pm

try this..

under .commentlist
font-size:.9em;
instead of
font-size:12px;

This should not change the look and feel, but allow people to change the font size (view->text size)
MJ says:

January 20, 2008 at 11:21 pm

http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/font-size
Confused In NJ says:

January 20, 2008 at 11:31 pm

What would be the most likely result if instead of cutting rates, Bernake did absolutely nothing?

Most likely, market would fall further, from disapointment.
Essex says:

January 20, 2008 at 11:58 pm

the market acts like a spoiled child sometimes.
mikeinwaiting says:

January 21, 2008 at 12:24 am

Just saw an NAR commercial stating that on avg a home value doubles every 10 years.
NO sh#t they are pumping this stuff out on tv on TBS tonight.I will try & find link to post.I guess desperate times call for desperate measures.
mikeinwaiting says:

January 21, 2008 at 12:49 am

The National Association of Realtors is not sitting back and waiting for the housing downturn to end. The association, one of if not the largest professional organization in the country is going on the offensive with a $40 million advertising campaign designed to convince Americans that it is a good time to buy, a good time to sell, and a good time to be a Realtor.

The NAR blitz is targeting a number of audiences; buyers, sellers, FSBOs, owners of commercial real estate and those looking for commercial space or property. Hispanics will come in for a good deal of attention as will real estate agents themselves; a group which may or may not be in need of a bit of morale boosting by mid year.
I couldn’t get the ad but this is what they are up to,link to follow.
http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/1122007_NAR_Advertising.asp
njpatient says:

January 21, 2008 at 12:59 am

Way to go Jints!!!

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Weekend Open Discussion – Part III

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