From UPI:
The number of Americans who believe their houses will decline in value this year has almost doubled from April 2007, a Gallup Poll released Monday said.
At the same time, the report says, the number of Americans who believe their home will increase in value this year has dropped almost in half, from 52 percent to 29 percent.
Recent numbers released by the National Association of Realtors showing pending home sales in December 2007 were down 29 percent from pending home sales in December 2006 indicate, “a virtual depression in much of the nation’s residential real estate markets,” the report says — a situation, “likely to continue.”
In the recent poll, conducted Jan. 30 through Feb. 2, based on 2,020 telephone interviews, 30 percent said they knew someone close to them who has not been able to sell their home for 12 months or longer. Thirty percent also said they knew someone who took their home off the market in the past three months, because it did not sell.
Housing slumps in the past, the report says, were often temporary, as homeowners waited for surging interest rates to settle down. Today’s market suggests a problem that is more long-term, the report says, as homeowners keep homes off the market for fear that the value might have declined.
Top o’ the mornin’ to ye!
“homeowners keep homes off the market for fear that the value might have declined.”
And yet, inventory inexorably rises…
From Reuters:
ING shares slide on market talk of writedowns
Shares in Dutch banking group ING fell by as much as 6.5 percent on Tuesday on market talk of large writedowns, traders said.
ING said it would not comment on market rumors, but a spokeswoman said the firm was “perfectly aware of its obligation to report any material deviations”.
…
“There are rumors of a writedown of 6-8 billion euros at ING,” said one trader. Other traders said the writedown was linked to the U.S. real estate business.
From Bloomberg:
U.S. Banks, Paulson Plan New Bid to Cut Mortgage Foreclosures
Bank of America Corp., Citigroup Inc. and four other U.S. lenders will announce new steps today to help some borrowers in danger of default stay in their homes, according to three people familiar with the plans.
Encouraged by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, the banks will offer a 30-day freeze on foreclosures while loan modifications are considered, two people said on condition of anonymity. The initiative, which follows a week of talks with Bush administration officials, will apply to customers who are at least three months late on payments and include prime borrowers, as well as those with poorer credit histories.
Paulson, who as recently as last month opposed a moratorium on foreclosures, is pushing lenders to go beyond earlier pledges to freeze subprime interest rates for five years. The deepest housing slump in a generation is threatening consumer spending and the job market, pushing the economy to the verge of a recession.
“There is this huge disconnect between what is being represented by the industry and what is being experienced on the ground,” said Kevin Stein, associate director of the California Reinvestment Coalition, a San Francisco-based housing activist group. “Borrowers are falling through the cracks while more and more of these press releases come out. It’s clearly not enough.”
Given the losses and write-downs associated with these loans, I wonder if the lenders have realized that they have no choice but to try to save the borrowers.
From the Trenton Times:
Recession angst
Dana Bagwell arrives early each morning at her job as a recruiter at a staffing firm.
“When I’m at my desk, I focus on work and I don’t waste time,” the 21-year-old says.
She figures her work ethic will come in handy as the economy edges closer to a recession. And she’s more cautious with money: Bagwell just put off making plans for a vacation in Mexico.
“Now, when I go shopping I ask myself, ‘Do I really need that?'”
That’s not idle musing from another 20-something. Bagwell and her generation have been on a technology-propelled canoe trip that could dump them into the first recession of their working lives. They are the so-called “millennials,” born between 1980 and 2000, and many were in grade school during the last big downturn of 1989 to 1992 — when New Jersey lost 259,000 jobs. They are called millennials because they’re the first generation to enter the labor force in the 21st century — and just over 2 million of them live in New Jersey, according to recent U.S. Census Bureau statistics.
Most millennials can scarcely remember the brief, mild recession of 2001, which was followed by an extraordinary six-year economic boom that coincided with their entry into the work force.
But lately, the economic numbers have turned grim: The loss of 17,000 U.S. jobs in January was the first payroll contraction in four years, and an alarmingly bearish outlook for the service industry last week kept stocks in a skid.
…
All this means anxious times ahead for young workers. Fresh out of school and working at their first adult job, many are trying to whittle down a mountain of student loans and credit-card debt, while also taking on auto loans and rent bills.
Laura Daly, 21, works with Bagwell at the Sparta job placement firm Stascom Technologies. She lives with her parents, but wants to move out on her own.
“If we have a recession — and I don’t believe we will — I’ll probably continue to live at home until it’s over,” she says. “I don’t do any useless spending on things like fancy purses, and I’ve got a few months of living expenses in the bank.”
From the Hartford Courant:
State’s Housing Slump Deepened In December
Home sales prices in Connecticut fell in December, with the median price of single-family houses dropping almost 4 percent from a year earlier — the largest one-month decline in more than a decade.
The much-anticipated decline comes amid a months-long housing slump which saw the number of houses sold in December also plunge by almost 25 percent.
The December sales figures, released in a report Monday from The Warren Group, paints a bleak picture of the health of the state’s housing market just before the long-awaited spring housing market gets underway.
The report shows the median sales price of single-family homes dropping 3.8 percent, from $265,000 in December 2006 to $255,000 in December 2007. It was the largest one-month decline in median sales prices since July 1997, when prices declined by 6 percent. It was also the third time median prices have declined in the past four months.
Sales of single-family homes also dropped in December, falling 24 percent from 2,862 sales in December 2006 to 2,174 in December 2007. It was the largest monthly decline in sales since September 2006, and the second-largest decline since 2000.
“We were looking for sales to fall and they did. We were looking for prices to fall after that, and this December number is the first big reflection of that,” said Ron Van Winkle, a West Hartford economist. “Clearly this is an indication of how the market feels and the market doesn’t feel very good right now.”
Grim-
#5 – I think there’s something to what you’re saying. Most banks would prefer to work out something with borrowers rather than have RE on their books.
#6 – 2 million of them?! That’s probably half a trillion text messages a month between them. I’m going to go out invest in text service providers.
JM
rent vs own
http://new.gsmls.com/public/detailLst.do?mlsNum=2482965
http://new.gsmls.com/public/detailLst.do?mlsNum=2482968
you would have to be a fool to buy this vs renting it
#8 – How does that saying go?
Lend me $10,000 and it’s my problem, lend me $1,000,000 and it’s yours.
let me understand this. the gov. bails out
the lowlifes who don’t know how to manage money. those of us we plan and save? what do we get? The bagel.
truly shameless .
When will Corzine announce his own bailout,
Interesting note from IndyMac this morning:
Indymac Issues 2007 Annual Shareholder Letter
Aside from it being one of the most grim shareholder letters I’ve read yet, this struck me as surprising:
In addition, to prevent consumers from making the wrong mortgage choice in the future, Indymac has decided to adopt as our policy that borrowers without $50,000 in demonstrated liquid assets or $250,000 in demonstrated net worth are not eligible for the following products:
1. ARM loans with initial fixed terms of less than five years.
2. Loans with negative amortization or prepayment penalties.
3. Limited documentation loans.
(These amounts are conservatively calculated after the mortgage loan closes.)
#10: It’s not just the lowlifes in trouble any longer:
An example of the spreading credit crisis is seen in Don Doyle, a computer engineer at Lockheed Martin who makes a six-figure income and had a stellar credit score in 2004, when he refinanced his home in Northern California to take cash out to pay for his daughter’s college tuition.
Mr. Doyle, 52, is now worried that he will have to file for bankruptcy, because he cannot afford to make the higher variable payments on his mortgage, and he cannot sell his home for more than his $740,000 mortgage.
“The whole plan was to get out” before his rate reset, he said. “Now I am caught. I can’t sell my house. I’m having a hard time refinancing. I’ve avoided bankruptcy for months trying to pull this out of my savings.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/12/business/12credit.html?ex=1360558800&en=62e1aa052b5ba79e&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink
It’s not just the lowlifes in trouble any longer
#12 – That was always wishful thinking, it was never confined to just one group. As expected, marginal borrowers showed weakness first. However, instead of viewing these events as a precursor to larger market events, we crossed our fingers and hoped it was an isolated incident.
GM to buy out 74,000 UAW employees.
From Bloomberg:
IndyMac Posts $509.1 Million Loss as U.S. Housing Slump Deepens
IndyMac Bancorp Inc., the second- biggest independent U.S. mortgage company, posted a fourth- quarter loss as the housing slump continued into its third year and said it was suspending its dividend “indefinitely.”
The net loss was $509.1 million, or $6.43 a share, compared with a profit of $72.2 million, or 97 cents a share, in the year-earlier period, the company said today in a statement. The average estimate of seven analysts surveyed by Bloomberg was a loss of $1.57 a share.
If you think real estate agents are bad, you haven’t spent enough time with a title insurer.
From the WSJ:
Scrutiny Tightens for Title Insurers
By JOHN R. WILKE
February 12, 2008; Page A1
The collapse of the housing boom is bringing harsh new scrutiny to the $17 billion title-insurance business, including allegations that insurers colluded illegally and paid kickbacks to agents or brokers to get business.
In the latest legal challenge, an antitrust suit filed Feb. 1 in federal court in Brooklyn accuses the four firms that dominate title insurance nationwide of illegally fixing prices in New York state. Although insurance firms have limited immunity from antitrust claims because state regulators approve their rates, the suit accuses title firms of concealing improper costs underlying their rate requests.
The recent housing bust is putting the spotlight on what critics see as abusive practices across the housing industry. Mortgage brokers and lenders who pushed high-cost loans onto borrowers and appraisers who bent their estimates to ensure deals could go through are among those facing pressure to clean up their acts.
The New York suit, which seeks to represent all home buyers in the state, says consumers were forced to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in extra closing costs.
At least six states, including California, Colorado, Florida and New York, have targeted alleged kickbacks and payments by title insurers to agents and others. Since 2003, title insurers, their agents or affiliates have paid more than $100 million in fines, penalties and settlement money in cases brought by state and federal regulators, according to a 2007 report by the Government Accountability Office. The report also cited a lack of competition in most states.
“We’re seeing widespread abuses in this industry, and more states are beginning to take action,” said Woody Girion, deputy insurance commissioner in California.
“ING shares slide on market talk of writedowns”
That can’t be true! bi said there would be no more writedowns!
Did someone say writedowns?
Credit Suisse Slips on Fears of More Writedowns
“Bank of America Corp., Citigroup Inc. and four other U.S. lenders will announce new steps today to help some borrowers in danger of default stay in their homes”
All those people that will be trapped in a $590K house on which they owe $700K will no doubt be profoundly grateful that their monthly payment has been reduced to an amount they can barely afford (as opposed to not at all).
Isn’t that called serfdom?
5 grim
I think they have.
It’s unfortunate that we all misunderstood what was really meant by the term “ownership society”.
It wasn’t that we, the citizens, would own homes and property, but that we would be owned by the banks, indentured servants.
We are the property.
B of A lays off 1000 shafts them no% of bonus 2 weeks pay & out the door.
njpatient Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 5:59 am
Top o’ the mornin’ to ye!
STAY ON TOPIC…..I COME HERE TO READ ABOUT REAL ESTATE
22. Grim
Sad but true, and my biggest complaint about the new breed of Capitalism, which is actually Neaveau Plantation Mentality.
#4
“U.S. Banks, Paulson Plan New Bid to Cut Mortgage Foreclosures”
This is bunch of nonsense, we can’t find 60% of our borrowers, we want to help people but when you can’t contact them, how can you do anything for them?
In addition most people have so much other debt (credit cards, auto, student loans, etc..) that mortgage is just a part of their monthly payments. Unless you get them to credit counseling this is just a waste of time.
“makes a six-figure income and had a stellar credit score in 2004, when he refinanced his home in Northern California to take cash out to pay for his daughter’s college tuition.”
Ouch
The RE bubble collides with the college tuition bubble.
“I wonder if the lenders have realized that they have no choice but to try to save the borrowers.”
JB,
Absolutely, and the fed realizes that it has no choice but to try to save the banks.
Corzine is on Bloomberg right now…discussing tolls
“Because something is down 50% from where it was does not necessarily make it cheap.”
Heard in Omaha
the guy is a loser as a gov. to many vested interests to represent the taxpayer.
the state is in a free fall.
The shift continues. Don’t tell Pret;
“Investment banks are redeploying their staff in a grab for fees in the Middle East in anticipation of a marked slowdown in revenues from Europe and the US.”
“Large numbers of bankers in the US offices of one Wall Street investment bank are being told to join their emerging markets effort or leave the company.”
“One senior banker at the firm said: “The joke doing the rounds is ‘Mumbai, Dubai, Shanghai or goodbye.’”
http://www.financialnews-us.com/?page=ushome&contentid=2349777322
“Because something is down 50% from where it was does not necessarily make it cheap.”
patient,
Cheap often becomes cheaper.
“20. grim Says: February 12th, 2008 at 7:54 am
Isn’t that called serfdom?”
Yes
And if you’re in Dixie, sharecropping.
#9
grim Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 6:39 am
#8 – How does that saying go?
“Lend me $10,000 and it’s my problem, lend me $1,000,000 and it’s yours.”
Grim – tell me again why this is not more evidence that the feds will continue to do whatever it takes to prevent foreclosures, and greater price corrections? They will be pumping up this over-inflated market for years to come.
22
Now THAT’S grim.
The serfdom/sharecropping solution on the part of the banks is basically their means of synthesizing the bankruptcy bill that the credit card lobbyists got.
In that context, I can’t see how anyone has any moral/ethical issue with jingle mail. If the banks didn’t like the terms of the contract, they shouldn’t have signed it.
24 chi
Oops! Par may snap my neck.
Frank
Who’s “we”?
#26 Frank
Won’t the 30 day freeze help borrowers, regardless of what their financial situation is?
It’s not just the lowlifes in trouble any longer
Its just the people without common sense. If you make x amount of dollars per year and cannot figure out how much you can afford and need someone to tell you, than honestly you deserve to lose your home.
Its the greedy people who wanted to play get rich quick. Hey your train ride had to end sooner or later.
Its the people who think a 4 bedroom 2 bath 2700 square foot home is now to small due to having an infant, so now they need a 3500-4000 square foot home.
The government needs to stop helping these people. Let them struggle, let them scrounge, let them get forclosed on.
These people need to learn the hard way. Maybe next time they will think before the make stupid decision.
One new thing I think will happen is a lot of these Mc Mansion will be turned into Multi family homes
32 BC
“The shift continues.”
It does. Good friend just left for Dubai.
Grim – tell me again why this is not more evidence that the feds will continue to do whatever it takes to prevent foreclosures, and greater price corrections?
Your statement assumes that the “Feds” can successfully manipulate the market, a concept that I’m not sure I can buy into.
If you do believe they can, tell me, why haven’t we seen a permanent prosperity yet?
Ready to buy
a bank bailout doesn’t translate to higher RE prices. Higher taxes or higher debt, maybe, but not higher RE prices.
#40
“One new thing I think will happen is a lot of these Mc Mansion will be turned into Multi family homes”
This is a good point. The Atlantic Monthly recently pointed out that McMansions may become tenement homes. They have an article (which I’m having trouble finding online) about a virginia suburb where gangs have moved into mcmansions
Warren, you ruthless bastard, it’s no wonder you’re a billionaire. Offering to reinsure the safest munis at 1.5x current premiums while the insurers are cornered, sheer genius!
From CFO.com:
Subprime Woes Just Beginning, PwC Chief Warns
http://www.cfo.com/article.cfm/10640729/c_10640997?f=home_todayinfinance
“The next wave from the subprime mortgage crisis will flow past lenders and homebuilders and strike nonfinancial U.S. companies with forced write-downs, the chief executive of PricewaterhouseCoopers warned.”
#42 Grim
If you do believe they can, tell me, why haven’t we seen a permanent prosperity yet?
I’m not arguing that they can “permanently” inflate housing prices…. but they can forstall a crash for some time. in addition they can “subsidize” the lifestyle of what #40 describes.
The fed is irrelevant. The carry trade fueled this insanity. This is now unwinding and it will continue for many months, even years. The fed’s only charter right now is to bail out the banks, steepen the yield curve. A new carry will be created, borrowing short and lending long. However, the fed only controls one side of the equation, short term rates. What will the bond vigilante’s have to say regarding the long end as we move forward?
Grim Says:
“Warren, you ruthless bastard, it’s no wonder you’re a billionaire. Offering to reinsure the safest munis at 1.5x current premiums while the insurers are cornered, sheer genius!”
It certainly helps to have his bankroll.
Didja know that he insured the Pepsi Billion Dollar giveaway (in which it was nearly impossible for someone to have won the billion dollars)?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepsi_Billion_Dollar_Sweepstakes
#2 nj ptient:And yet, inventory inexorably rises…
Yes and now all they have to do is start slashing their asking prices, and we can move this thing along quickly.
I think people will pull there homes off the market and wait for the new presidency to see if this has an effect on the economy. For those who have equity and want to downsize and upsize there is lots of inventory. For the investors long term there are lots of foreclosures and that I think is all we will see till 2010 or beyond.
#6 If we have a recession — and I don’t believe we will —
Ah yes out of the mouths of babes.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/RealtyCheck/story?id=4257145&page=1&ref=patrick.net
Buffet is making a play to cherry pick
$800 billion municipal bonds from the monolines.
http://www.thestreet.com/s/buffet-floats-bond-insurer-bailout/newsanalysis/financial-services/10403054.html?puc=_tscrss
Seems he wants the icing off of the cake and the cake too.
#13 grim Front page on the NY Times this moring discussing just that.
It ain’t just sub-prime any more boys and girls.
I am praying every day for a recession, the under 35 crowd needs a little education on how the world works and a short hard recession to bring them back to 1991 or 1982 is what they need to find financial religion. The spend spend spend mentality won’t get broken till they see some hard times. Their grandparents who saw the tail end of the depression and WWII knew what saving and sacrificing were all about and it made them better people. Now Gen X and Y needs some hard love. BOO HOOO, they may have to turn in their cable, cell phone, hi speed internet, $5 dollar coffee and their $60 dollar dog grooming and their maid service. Why do 29 year olds need these things is beyond me. Let them brown bag it for awhile. This self-entitlement mentality has to stop.
The number of Americans who believe their houses will decline in value this year has almost doubled from April 2007, a Gallup Poll released Monday said.
I guess this doesn’t include the poor fools who turn to Kendra “Bubbles are for Bathtubs” Todd and her merry band of “experts” for home appraisals on “My House is Worth What?”
Bergen County is set to announce layoffs today about 150 county employees, about 5% of County workforce. I guess one politician Dennis McNerney is serious about cutting spending, as well as his speech last week about merging/towns services in some of the Bergen County towns to cut costs and hopefully taxes.
From Yahoo Finance, re monolines:
One of the companies has turned him down, and he has not heard back from the other two.
Why would anyone be rooting for a recession? It’s going to affect everyone, not just the young things with their lattes and cell phones. Why would anyone want to see people suffer, lose their jobs? While we’re at it, let’s root for a depression again, so we can all line up at soup kitchens.
Warren, you ruthless bastard, it’s no wonder you’re a billionaire.
I guess we’ll see how my big one share of BRK/B does today.
# 5 “save the borrowers.”
It doesnt have the same ring to it as “Save the Whales,” even though they may be just as endangered.
47
Hasn’t the government been subsidizing our lifestyles for some time, with the mortgage interest deduction?
#56 John: I hate to make broad generalizations. But I have to agree with you, at least for many I know in that age group.
The sense of entitlement with many in that age group is just to me unbelieveable. I see this with some my own and spouses family members/relatives that are in this age group.
Always crying, always moaning and complaining, alwasy stressed, and wanting more, and never seeming to be contented.
And they all have their own house cleaners and lawn service. Its amazing to me at least.
#51 Methinks whomever wins the presidency in November will be wondering — come around September/October of ’09 — why the heck they wanted the job in the first place. The current occupant of the White House has created such monumental problems, and congress is unwilling to be the guardian of sane policy, that any corrective action will cause such severe pain that the next president will, I suspect, be very very unliked.
If the recession in 2002-2003 is any indication, it won’t be the below 35 crowd that gets hurt the most – it’ll be the over 55 crowd.
Careful what you wish for, old man.
63…. and no regulation of lending practices, and the current bailout packgages, and freezes on loans, and increases in fannie mae loans.
John [56],
Ditto.
#60 Ann Nobody wants to sse it happen per se, but recessions are a normal part of a business cycle. And unfortunatley it appears some people neeed to be slapped back into reality, and perhaps a recession is the only way to do it.
I feel sorry for the people who have been playing by the rules and living within their means if they are impacted negatively by this recession, I truly do.
But I think we have to ask ourselves how do we clean up this mess with out a recession?
And what about the future generations?
65 Shoreguy
I agree, I can’t believe anyone even wants that job. Worst job ever, especially after W(orst) is done with it.
bergen county laying off. double no way.
its bergen c.,,,, home of the NJ
Recession won’t hit me. Housing is a tiny bit of my net worth. Plus I have a EC passport and have lots of connections in Tokyo, London and Germany, I would just move. If the whole world is in recession well then we are all screwed.
For the over 55 crowd it is good news. My retired inlaws live off a fixed pension plus SS, they have no money in the stock market and no loans. A stong economy means high prices which is killing them, a good old price cutting recession is good for them since their income is fixed.
The reason many of us root for a recession is because the wise ones who have played the game with common sense and fiscal responsibility are continually getting screwed by the ignorant ones who keep getting the bailout. It would be nice to be rewarded for our good behavior on occasion.
Perhaps we are not the wise ones after all?
re: recession.
GWB said yesterday unequivocally that there would be no recession.
No need to worry. :)
What about the 55-65 age group – mostly working, but well past the prime of their careers? They were hurt bad (at least in IT) in the early 2000s. People like me who were just fresh out of school didn’t even notice the downturn.
Most 55+ people don’t have EC passports either, LOL.
#74 sean: And Geroge would know, after he looked the meaning of the word up in a dictionary.
From Bloomberg:
New Jersey’s Corzine Says He’ll Propose Spending Cuts for 2009
New Jersey Governor Jon Corzine said he plans to propose more spending cuts this month to help put the state’s finances on a “healthy” pathway.
“We are going to freeze or cut spending in the 2009 budget that I’m going to lay down two weeks from today,” Corzine said in an interview in New York. “We’re going to limit spending in the second, third, fourth year. I’m going to create a law that limits the growth in future spending,” he said.
New Jersey faces a $3 billion budget shortfall, the third- biggest after California and New York, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. Its $32 billion of indebtness is the third-highest behind the same two states, according to Moody’s Investors Service.
BC,
Cheap often becomes cheaper.
and then it becomes Dirt Cheap!!!
# 60 “Why would anyone be rooting for a recession…to see people suffer, lose their jobs? ”
Ann,
Overconsumption and living beyond our nation’s collective means has become an addiction. We have been on an economic bender and are addicted to the thrill of spending. We have failed to save and plan and act responsibily. Sage financial advice offered soberly and calmly has not quenched our collective desire to live beyond our means, and we have yet to see any fallout from our ill-advised behavior.
Like an alcoholic, or one with another addiction, we as a society seem unwilling to change our collective behavior until we hit bottom, as it were. Just as it is often impossible for an alcoholic to find the motivation to change destructive drinking behavior until the world starts collapsing around him, until a good number of our fellow citizens see the economic walls collapsing there is little reason to believe that they will eshew unsustainable and reckless financial behavior and, instead, begin to act prudently.
There will be heartbreaking stories of personal loss that come out of the recession. But, just like the unfortunate diabetic who has a foot amputated because they failed to control his or her blood sugar level, it is better for society, and the collective economy, to suffer some loss than a to maintain our current behavior and suffer a more severe collapse later.
Many who suffer pain in a recession will say boo hoo, if only for the recession I would not have lost my house, or boat, or care, or whatever. The truth is, had they saved more, spent less, and had their finances in better shape, they would have weathered the storm. FOr them, a recession may be the final cause of financila pain, but it will not be the only or even prime cause.
“unequivocally”
I’m surprised our blockhead in chief could pronounce it.
73, I hear ya, but the thing is, recessions and depressions hurt everyone, not just those who went crazy buying 600 pocketbooks. Regardless, I find it troubling to be wishing pain upon people.
My view of any bailout is that the big banks and corporations are getting bailed out more than individual people who HELOCed themselves into disaster by granitizing their kitchens and setting themselves up into fancy cars. Or perhaps there are bailouts I am missing?
We can blame this bailout, but let’s be real, the whole mortgage system in general is propped up by the gov’t. One way it’s propped up is by the mortgage interest deduction, never mind subsidized highways and made it possible for people to move out to rural areas and commute. If there wasn’t mortgage money available, how much would houses cost?
#27…..Exactly…..housing HELOC supported these high tuitions….
5. grim : Given the losses and write-downs associated with these loans, I wonder if the lenders have realized that they have no choice but to try to save the borrowers.
but Clot said that this would constitute a breach of contract!
79
Sure, when recession hits, those that have been spending their money foolishly will have to give that up, but that’s not hard to do. Heck, those who waste their money on luxury items aren’t in bad shape at all. So, you shop eating out three nights a week, cut out vacations and your clothes shopping addiction and you’re back on track.
It’s the working poor I worry about, they’ll be the ones hit the hardest. And of course, many hardworking people, who don’t spend foolishly, could lose their jobs, causing much pain to themselves and their families.
I find think this whole spending addiction thing is a myth. Most families are getting themselves into trouble trying to live in a decent town (absent of gangs, but let’s not go there again, this is a RE BLOG!), pay for their healthcare and keep their cars running so they can get to work.
Officials debate Corzine’s “MO” line remark
MIDDLESEX COUNTY — The governor’s statement that Middlesex County should be deleted from the proposed Monmouth-Ocean-Middlesex rail line has local officials elated.
But Department of Transportation officials refused to discuss the impact of the governor’s statement on the MOM line study.
…
In a meeting with mayors of Middlesex County on Sunday, the governor reiterated his position on the controversial transit project.
“He clarified to us all that while he is committed to the rail line, he is emphatically opposed to the line if it impacts Middlesex County,” said Monroe Mayor Richard Pucci.
“He said that the MOM line is now the MO line,” Pucci added.
South Brunswick Mayor Frank Gambatese said he was elated by the governor’s support for dropping Middlesex County from the proposed MOM line.
# 81 ” I find it troubling to be wishing pain upon people.”
It is not a matter of wishing pain on individuals; it is a matter of wanting the broad economy to be healthy and sustainable. Given current consumption and saving patterns, we are an economically-unhealthy society, akin to a person who looks great but who has a cancer growing within. we neex to exise the cancer, even if it hurts.
#81 Ann
“If there wasn’t mortgage money available, how much would houses cost?”
They would cost what the market demands – the same as rents. maybe less because of the risk.
You’re right. It is and always will be propped up by the gov. to some degree. This is not a market driven market.
Most families are getting themselves into trouble trying to live in a decent town
Buying a house they can’t afford got them in to trouble, their justification had nothing to do with it.
President Bush’s statement yesterday forecast that the U.S. economy would grow 2.7 percent in 2008, a far rosier picture than private-sector economists who have predicted growth of just 1.6 percent this year.
President Bush is very encouraged about our economy, the stimuls plan and long term growth.
My question for the njrereport crowd here is does President Bush’s statments on the economy mean that I should hold onto all the cardboard I can get my hands on? Maybe some duct tape as well to hold my cardboard together, too?
I guess I will buy one of those Dummies Books “How to make a cardboard McMansion for Dummies” and learn how to put together a McCardboard McMansion real quick!
Ann (81),
We are all over analyzing the personal side of this story.
Those who used to rent and could not afford to own a home will have to go back to renting. The sooner they realize it, the more money they will save and the better off they will be.
From a macroeconomic standpoint, recessions and booms are all part of capitalism. When the boom was a booming did anyone say, “Wow this is really gonna suck when the next downturn occurs!” I know I have been saying it for years. At the GTG, there was a nice discussion going on as to when we all first thought that the RE market would break. I recall clearly telling my wife that if the current bubble was to continue, our recently purchased $500K home would be worth a cool mill in 3 more years. Of course, she just laughed because deep down, we all knew it was not going to happen. Will it be double in value in the next 10 to 20 years? Most definitely.
Recessions are healthy as they cleanse the economy of the excesses of greed. The clever ones stay out of the boom and enter during the troughs (Buffet).
# 88 Amen!
#89 “I guess I will buy one of those Dummies Books “How to make a cardboard McMansion for Dummies” and learn how to put together a McCardboard McMansion real quick!”
I thought the Administration was recomending plastic sheeting and duct tape. Still, in this climate, I think I will go with rubber cement; it will hold better in january. Maybe add some styrofoam panels for insulation as well.
“Why would anyone be rooting for a recession?”
Ann,
Economies/business go thru cycles, normal ebb and flow. However, this cycle was fabricated, created by financial engineering. If we try to hyperinflate our #ss out of a recession, the implications will be much more severe going forward. Then you’ll be fighting the headwinds of a possible depression.
A recession will help cure our current account defecit and increasing the savings rate will assist in lifting our dollar out of its sinkhole. It may sound cold and cruel but a recession is the perfect cure for the idiocy that has gone on for the past 12 years, dot.com-re.
Blow out the crap and move forward. If not we will become another Japan or Weimar. Pick your poison.
When did the phrase “you can’t afford it” become so politically and socially incorrect?
grim #94,
It’s turned into a diss these days.
I grew up with my parents saying it to me all the time. Nope, we can’t afford it. Even when they could.
Can’t has always been a socially incorrect word. We all tell our children “yes you can”. We have all heard stories from other people and our parents who said “I had to stretch and tighten my belt but I bought this house for X which was so much money back then – everyone said I was crazy – but look it went up.
That’s the mindset of this generation.
jam #96- Si, Se Puede!
“Hasn’t the government been subsidizing our lifestyles for some time, with the mortgage interest deduction?”
Yes. I’d love to get rid of that one.
[98] That would be a tough one to get rid of now. It has become an entitlement.
65 Shore
I couldn’t agree more.
“Apres moi, le deluge”
# 94
Grim,
I have mentioned a good friend of mine who is currently living in his own basement and is renting out the bedrooms of his house in an attempt to make the payments on his interest-only house. He got laid off sometime around last April. He had little savings and lots of credit card debt, but, as he said, “I am not worried, I can make the payments.” Then he saw two Lincolns he just could not live without. You got it, he bought both of them because, “It will be tight but I can swing the payments” and “If things get tight, I can refinance the house.”
He is still out of work, has just $300 in cash available to him, and financed the payments on the house and cars, oh and cable, with a credit card cash advance. In 1989, he had a 20 year fixed-rate mortgage. Now he is about 2 or 3 years into a 30-year interest only for the first few years and then resets to something else for the remainder of the term. I don’t know the details, but it always sounded like a bad move to me.
It is a shame. Instead of paying off the house and being set to go, he used the property as a piggy bank to fund all sorts of spending that he could not afford but could not live with being seen as not being unable to afford.
Our national obsession with THINGS is not sustainable and will wreck us if we do not get control of it.
(98) Patient
Everyone is talking about the int. deduction… but that has been around for a while.
What about the tax law change that made it possible to live in a place 2 of 5 years then turn it over instead of the once-only capital gains deferral? That seems to have prompted many here to turn over more properties with an added cost each time…
I’m off to work now and don’t know the particulars but there was a tax law change within the last 10-year span that contributed to the investment climate re housing here in California.
So what does everyone here feel about the prospect of universal healthcare in the next few years? Will it be good or bad for the state of new jersey (and, therefore, for real estate in nj)?
66 sync
No doubt. Who was it buying all those places in Florida?
Maybe we all should move to Long Island. Apparently the credit crunch hasn’t hit the “rich” in Nassau County, N.Y.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/closetohome/2008-02-11-nassua-county-ny_N.htm
re: 103 syncmaster – stop dreaming, only the poor and the eldery will get “free” medical care. Everyone else with a job and an income will be paying for it through the nose.
njpatient #104,
30 year old hipsters. Don’t let the wrinkles and the Lincolns and the ugly-a$$ shorts fool ya, they’re actually very young.
Shore #101-
Wow. Not sure what to say, that’s like someone with a substance abuse problem who’s in denial. Maybe some kind of intervention?
There’s a show on that’s sounds like what this guy needs (can’t remember the name).
JM
Sean #106,
Universal was never meant to mean ‘free’.
# 103 I think that we overuse insurance for minor emergencies and routine medical care, and the administration of insurance payments for such care drives up the costs of such care and reduces the job satisfaction for physicians. I would have to see the specifics but, if the universal care were for catastrophic coverage — the kind of things that could ruin even the most fiscally prudent folks, I may be for it. If it is something that pays foir every sniffle, every pill, and every shot, then I suspect it will be an administrative nightmare that will spiral out of control.
I would not object to a sliding scale of out-of-pocket- costs before a catastrophic insurance kicked in. If I had to pay $10,000-15,000 before insurance kicked in, it would be ok. For some others, it might need to be $1,000 or $2,000.
#12
did you read the rest of that article?
“The Doyles took advantage of the housing boom by refinancing their home nearly every year since they bought it in 1995 for $275,000. Until their most recent loan they never had a problem making their payments. They invested much of the money in shares of companies that subsequently went bankrupt”
Shore #110,
Universal catastrophic care sounds great, but here’s what the public health advocates will say: that without preventative care (taking care of the sniffles) you increase the likelihood of a health care catastrophe.
It’s turned into a diss these days.
I grew up with my parents saying it to me all the time. Nope, we can’t afford it. Even when they could.
you kidding me. I love the phrase. I say it at least three times a day. It gets me out of trouble and lowers prices all the time.
# 108
It has been like watching a train hitting a cart stalled on a railroad track in slow motion, and he is in the car — albeit a new lincoln, err two of them.
Over the years I have been getting from him, “Don’t be such a cheap bastatd. You can afford (insert transitory bauble here).” When I exclaimed alarm at the huge CC debt he was carrying at a fraction of our income he replied, “Oh, like you dont have $20,000 in credit card debt like the rest of us.” After I told him that I did not, and, even when I was poor (espicially when I was, actually) never had, he blew up at me as if his debt was my fault.
I feel for him and everyone else who is in over his or her head. Nevertheless, most of them got there through their own digging.
Sure I say all the times to my kids when they want something I know they will be tired of quickly.
I can’t afford it hasn’t been in the vocabulary for home buyers in a long time.
[114] I always heard the average cc debt was about 8K. That seemed high. 20K is unacceptable.
This is interesting. Kids today!
http://www.cnbc.com/id/23110984
You just can’t make this stuff up. Apparently even a big builder’s daughter can’t seem to keep faith in the Florida housing market. According to an SEC filing, Wendy Topkis, daughter of Toll Brothers co-founder and Vice-Chairman Bruce Toll, is walking away from a Florida condo, just like everyone else. A Toll Bros. condo!! The Palm Beach Post says it best: Et Tu Wendy?
According to the home builder’s proxy statement:
Prior to fiscal 2007, the Company entered into an agreement of sale to build and sell a condominium to Wendy Topkis, Bruce E. Toll’s daughter, and her husband for a purchase price of $2,468,075. In January 2008, the buyers informed the Company that they did not intend to make settlement on the condominium. The Company intends to pursue its rights under the agreement of sale.
Does that mean they’ll sue darling daughter? The company’s general counsel says they are pursuing normal procedures.
Daddy is quoted as saying she just changed her mind because she had another child and the place would be too small, but I’m guessing the 13 percent drop in Florida prices was screaming at her a little louder than the baby. So Wendy just adds to the company’s 61 percent cancellation rate in the Sunshine State.
[snip]
# 116
Jam,
There are months that I put $8,000 or $10,000 on the card, but I would not be able to sleep if I let that much, or half that much roll over to the next month.
I was at Toy’s R US last night at around 7PM and the store was a ghost town. Only one cash register was open.
One couple with their Kid in front of me must have bought at least $300 worth of toys and put it on their MasterCard.
When I walked out I heard the woman say “I hope this Cab is not late it’s freezing”
I just shook my head.
From The Record:
Layoffs likely in (Bergen)county budget
Bergen County Executive Dennis McNerney has proposed raising taxes and laying off staff to fund a $27 million spending increase in 2008-09.
McNerney will present the $463 million county budget — a 6 percent increase over last year — to freeholders Wednesday.
That increase would be paid for by a $23 million hike in the tax levy and the reduction of $5.5 million in wages.
…
McNerney’s plan also calls for increasing property tax collection.
For the average Bergen County home assessed at $337,000, there would be a $12 increase in county taxes, for an annual county tax burden of $609.
Bergen County spokesman Brian Hague characterized that as a modest tax increase, saying the county does not intend to raise taxes further to avoid layoffs.
…
The largest increases are rising costs stemming from the long-term effects of a sizable workforce: a $6.2 million increase in contributions to the state pension fund, a $464,000 hike in contractual wage and salary increases; and an $800,000 increase toward a fund that would cover the cost of an extra pay period next year.
The county also plans to pay $6 million more in health insurance next year — more than double the increase over the previous year. The county, which insures itself — meaning it pays out the health claims filed by its employees — is projecting the added cost based on industry trends and on a few sizable claims filed by employees in the last year.
…
Under current union contracts, county employees do not pay a premium on their health insurance nor do they have a copay for doctor visits. They do have to meet an average annual deductible of between $200 and $400 before the county covers the costs of their medical claims.
(argh!)
The county is also increasing, by $4 million, its contributions to county schools. Much of that money will cover increases in health and insurance costs of employees at the vocational schools, the community college an the county special services school district, officials said.
If the company I work for had most of their increased spending due to employees…
Rich
From thisismoney.co.uk about possible future job losses in the UK and the rest of the EU as well as bankers being forced into emerging market positions:
The new joke in City circles is: ‘It’s Mumbai, Shanghai, Dubai or goodbye.’
From the Philly Fed:
Survey of Professional Forecasters – First Quarter 2008
The outlook for growth in the first half of 2008 looks much weaker now than it did three months ago, according to 50 forecasters surveyed by the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia. However, the forecasters are not predicting a contraction. Growth in the current quarter is projected at an annual rate of 0.7 percent, down from the projection of 2.2 percent in last year’s fourth-quarter survey. The forecasters are pegging the probability of a downturn this quarter at 47 percent, as discussed in a section below. The forecasters expect growth of 1.3 percent in the second quarter, marking a downward revision from 2.3 percent previously, and they are assigning a probability of 43 percent to negative growth. The forecasters see growth of 2.8 percent in each quarter of the second half of the year. This projection is very nearly equal to the forecasters’ new estimate for long-run average growth, discussed in a section below.
…
The risk of a contraction has risen in this survey. Although the forecasters’ median estimate for real GDP this quarter and the next suggests slow, but positive growth, they think the risk of a contraction is high. That risk is pegged at 47 percent for growth this quarter, up from 23 percent previously, and 43 percent for growth in 2008 Q2, up from 22 percent. These current-quarter and one-quarter-ahead risks have not been this high since the survey of 2001 Q4, when they were 82 percent and 49 percent, respectively. The risk of a contraction in the quarters of the second half of the year are quite a bit lower than those of the first half.
22:
We’re now living in the “Pwnership” society.
From MarketWatch:
Small-business optimism gauge falls to 17-year low
Small businesses are battening down in expectation of a recession, according to a survey released by a small-business group on Tuesday.
The National Federation of Independent Business index of small-business optimism fell by 2.8 points to 91.8 in January, the lowest since January 1991.
“The index is sending a recession signal,” said NFIB chief economist William Dunkelberg, who noted that hiring plans are currently much stronger than they were in 1991.
“This is not good news, no matter how anyone tries to spin it,” wrote Joshua Shapiro, chief economist for MFR Inc. The decline in the NFIB index “corroborates the steep drop in the ISM non-manufacturing index in the month, a move that was greeted with suspicion by some given its precipitous nature.”
I’ve yet to see a story in the press where I felt a borrower was truly a victim. I don’t believe I’m heartless. Here’s who I feel bad for: those people who are victims of real tragedies— devastating illness or injury, structural job loss in late middle age when it’s too late to retrain for something else, victims of true fraud or other crimes.
All of the stories I read in newspapers involve people who didn’t take the time to understand the contracts they entered into. They eagerly accepted the self-serving advice of people who were selling them expensive products: realtors, mortgage brokers, developers. They never imagined that anything other than the ideal would result. They would be able to refinance. They would be able to sell for a profit. They never for a second entertained the thought that every single aspect of their plan wouldn’t work out perfectly. It is so obvious that these people were completely blinded by greed. So it seems to me we need to save our sympathy for actual victims.
Hi guys! this is a repost from yesterday’s thread. It was intended for NJGator, but it would be great if anybody who knows the area offers his/her $0.02 too.
One question: you said in an earlier post that in Montclair there was a pretty obvious “wrong side of the tracks”. I’m aware of the difference, generally speaking, between Upper Montclair and the area around downtown. Are there differences within the area surrounding downtown, too?. Let’s say if you’re considering a 20 block radius around Bay St. or Walnut St. train stations, is there a “better side of the tracks” to look at? Thanks a lot. I’m very interested in Montclair.
Toys R Us bonds are at something like 16%, they are the junk of junk bonds. That crap hole backed by a shaky private equity firm is headed down the crapper. Funny recent story about how they just can’t win, they had a store up till last year in Freeport Long Island right next to the HS in a town full of criminals in training. Well they were losing more to shoplifting they making and when they tried to increase security in that one store they got accussed of racial profiling since they were only way increasing security at that store, finally they just left the store go empty and it has been empty unleased for a year. It is cheaper to pay rent on an empty store than to open the doors to every criminal in town, quite a business model.
Handing out checks today!!
Marito (126),
I am NJGator’s husband. The problem with defining better or worse is that it is very subjective. Can you qualify what it is you are looking for? Better restaurants within walking distance, lower crime, more property, lower land values, pawn shops?
Pawn shops and strip clubs, yeah baby!
49:
Stu:
Yeah, Warren’s my boy! I was the copywriter/C.D. behind the FIRST billion-dollar giveaway, Grab.com sweeps. My whiz-kid 26-year-old boss indemnified the big prize through SCA. (They were the people who started the whole Lance Armstrong/EPO debacle, when they sued him in 2004 for some breach of contract hoo-hah). There was a guaranteed $1,000,000 payout, for which we wrote a check. Out of petty cash — it was 2000: we had to measure the incoming loot (from online ads, spam, affiliates marketing, co-regs, etc) by weight. We felt like drug lords.
Some nurse from Ohio won the million. Cute gal, great face for the ads.
Good times. Good, good times.
re: Bergen County layoffs.
The layoffs are due to the fact the the Union would not give in any consessions. They would rather jettison 5% of their workforce than have a co-pay for medical, or have the employees contribute to their retirement. I believe they also offered buyouts to a bunch of the senior employees but less than 10% accepted.
Strip clubs, you won’t find. The closest you can come is a lingerie shop that sells some sex toys. This particular shop is constantly getting in trouble for the mannequins in the window have often been found to be dressed too provocatively according to the town council.
#125 –
Furthermore, it is truly hypocritical that we bail out speculators in place of aiding folks that have truly been hurt by housing catastrophies — (earthquakes, huricanes, fires etc.)
Clot,
Thought you were on the money regarding negotiating a low ball–we must never under estimate a man’s ego.
Question: Is it now common practice that buyers are approaching listing agents and asking for reduced commission (to be applied toward reduced purchase price) if they’re functioning in the capacity of a dual agent?
#135 –
instead of reduced commission, which aids only the seller, they should approach the dual agent with a request for a percentage of the comission at closing.
instead of reduced commission, which aids only the seller, they should approach the dual agent with a request for a percentage of the comission at closing.
Commission kickbacks are not permitted. NJ RE licensure law requires that anyone being payed commission from the sale of real property to be a licensed agent or broker.
The best you can attempt to negotiate is a lower price (or justify the current offer) through reduced commission (which on net, is the same thing really)
Good luck playing this game with a ‘big-name’ shop. While I do know agencies that have cut commission to make up the bid/ask spread and get the deal done, most won’t bite.
Re getting rid of the mortgage interest deduction
Under our current tax code, it is difficult to eliminate. If people couldn’t deduct the mortgage interest on their homes, (tax-savy) people would simply create a corporation for the purposes of buying a home, and then have the corporation rent the home to themselves. Since business expenses (including interest on mortgages businesses take out) are tax deductible, the net effect would be the same.
One tax provision that is easy to eliminate that does, in my opinion, distort home prices is the $250,000 home sale tax exemption. Can’t create any zany loopholes to keep that $250,000 tax free once that law’s cut out.
Clot, Grim, Et Al,
Anyone have any experience with HomeV*stors? Apparently, they purchase homes at ‘as is’ pricing? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Highest Regards
Ann Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 9:34 am
Heck, those who waste their money on luxury items aren’t in bad shape at all. So, you shop eating out three nights a week, cut out vacations and your clothes shopping addiction and you’re back on track. It’s the working poor I worry about, they’ll be the ones hit the hardest. And of course, many hardworking people, who don’t spend foolishly, could lose their jobs, causing much pain to themselves and their families. I find think this whole spending addiction thing is a myth. Most families are getting themselves into trouble trying to live in a decent town, pay for their healthcare and keep their cars running so they can get to work.
Ann: I apologize for being rude, but for the last several weeks, most of what you have posted has been startlingly naive. I am in the business of advising people on financial matters. Consistently what I see is evidence of people knowing EXACTLY what they are doing, or else, making it their business to ignore the important details.
To put it more bluntly and viscerally……people have been smoking three packs a day, and they have to stop. I don’t care that we have to cut out one lung, it is the only way to live….
#137
that explains why BuySide does not operate in NJ. Why not? Doesn’t seem unethical to me if the buyer does all the research and work.
Homevestors, the company whose advertising model is based on illegally posting signs on utility poles and on public property?
No, really, they’ve got a great business model, they sell franchises to suckers for $50k a pop.
It is true about the entitlement attitude of people in my generation. Many of my friends are simply into the next A4 lease and Armani suits (and live at home with parents)..and what is the monthly CC payment.
The few who own a home clearly spent above their means and have the nicest furnishings in their homes. Every room an LCD TV, WiFi, etc.
It is fustrating sometimes to be looked upon as “poor” or “cheap” among your peers because you get furniture at estate sales, dont buy new clothes regularly and drive an old car.
I guess I get it that recession is a normal part of the business cycle and all that.
What I can’t get on board with is that it’s just the “young folks” who didn’t live through the Depression like the greatest generation, who need our lattes and cell phones and SUVs and $600 pocketbooks.
From what I see and read, most of us are doing worse than our parents did, and working harder, for many reasons. To say that all of this wreckage is upon us because of lattes or cell phones seems overly simplistic.
There are a lot of people out there who are just trying to get ahead, but unfortunately, even a middle class lifestyle has gotten out of reach for so many. And it’s not that people need to live in Brigadoon, they just want to live somewhere where they have some faith in the schools. And of course, when disaster hits, like disability or unemployment or unforeseen medical expenses, more of us are one paycheck away from sending the keys into the bank than we think. It’s so easy to say that the lowlifes caused this, but more people are one paycheck away from being a ‘lowlife’ than we think.
I’m glad that the boomers have their passports ready to leave for other countries when disaster hits. Maybe we won’t have to pay for their universal healthcare, I mean Medicare, then.
Hi Stu,
Thanks for the reply. The “wrong side of the tracks” was a quote from NJGator. I took it as meaning somewhat higher crime (not that it is high in Montclair for all I know), uniformly lower income population, houses somewhat more vulnerable to lose value during a downturn, maybe projects, etc. I’m not interested in all-white super affluent Upper Montclair nor in a what may be the poorest and blackest area in the city, but rather in something in between. Thanks a lot,
Mario
chi
I can’t comment on what you see in your business. I guess I can only comment on what I see people I know doing. Perhaps I’m naive, or perhaps we just disagree on this one. I don’t think the overspending on SUVs and lattes is the major problem.
Grim,
How do they get away with this?
We want to ‘purchase’ your home at rock bottom and resell for as much as possible. Amazing, especially in these times.
#144 – Good point Ann. Don’t know your age, but these guys (50 somethings) created this mess, and spending culture… not 20 somethings.
Grim : can you post the phone #’s for the
project lifeline i need help . is help on the way .
Wag,
Do you remember “Fast Cash for Cars”?
The model is the same, seller agrees to sell a given asset at some discount to compensate the buyer for the premium of a quick closing (and “Fast Cash”).
“any corrective action will cause such severe pain that the next president will, I suspect, be very very unliked.”
And what will happen is the next president after that will be like our current one becuse people will harken back to these as the good old days.
Hoover: Great Depression
FDR/Truman: Prosperity
Eisenhower: Recession (1957)
Kennedy/Johnson: Prosperity
Nixon/Ford: Massive Inflation
Carter: Deregulation of Trucking/Airlines, submitted balanced budgets (though not balanced after Congree got ahold of them)
Reagan/Bush I: Cut taxes + increase spending, esp. military spending= prosperity at first, then disaster (huge deficits, S&L crisis)
Clinton: Prosperity!
Bush II: you know the answer here.
So, how did the Republcans get the reputation as the ones to best champion the economy? What am I missing?
Congree = Congress
Sorry
#152: I thought things were great under Bush II
From Bloomberg:
Paulson, Banks Announce 30-Day Freeze on Foreclosures
Bank of America Corp., Citigroup Inc. and four other U.S. lenders announced new steps to help borrowers in danger of foreclosure stay in their homes.
Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and the banks offered a 30-day freeze on some foreclosures while loan modifications are considered. Paulson and U.S. Housing and Urban Development Secretary Alphonso Jackson said today at a news conference in Washington that “Project Lifeline” would help stabilize communities disrupted by mortgage defaults.
“Project Lifeline has the potential to offer new solutions to responsible, able homeowners who want to keep their homes,” Paulson said. “As our economy works through this difficult period, we will look for additional opportunities to try to avoid preventable foreclosures.”
In a statement, the banks said the program would start with a letter to homeowners more than 90 days delinquent on payments that lays out procedures for them to “pause” the foreclosure process. The homeowner has 10 days to respond to the notice and give additional financial information so the lender is able to weigh new payment options.
Ann et al
No one is innocent. yes we may be worse off overall because of some of the decisions that the previous generations have made. But the current generations have only made the situation worse by spending like there is no tomorrow. Yes, the government has fully endorsed and encouraged the spending habits of the last 2 decades but that does not make it sound or sustainable. There is blame enough for all, and at the same time any real solution will require sacrifice by all, limits/ cuts in medicare that hurt/ effect older people; a slowing and/or contraction of the economy in order to remove debt and return to sound economic practices that will hurt all, especially the younger groups who will see limited income growth job advancement due to this.
A 30 day “pause” for borrowers 90 days in the hole?
One someone has taken the hit to their FICO from a 90 day late, does 30 days even matter?
“(tax-savy) people would simply create a corporation for the purposes of buying a home, and then have the corporation rent the home to themselves.”
That’s a red herring, herring. If you’re getting rid of the deduction, obviously you get rid of the loophole.
There are any number of places in the IRC where individual incorporation is disallowed (don’t you remember the period where some law firms were a lose confederation of one-person corporations?)
Ann / Ready,
I missed the post where someone put the blame on “young folks”.
From my vantage point the problem of financial irresponsibility seems to be within ALL age groups. Everything we have now, cable-tv w/dvr, dvd player, multiple tvs, stereo, Ipod, personal computer, M/W, 2 cars, cellphone etc. I consider luxuries. Many believe these items are “standard” items and a part of being considered middle-class. I don’t.
Did your parents have these type of luxury items?
Chi is right, it’s time for people (young & old) to push away from the table.
Rich
[155],
Can Project Lifeline freeze property taxes for 5 years?
“If you’re getting rid of the deduction, obviously you get rid of the loophole.”
I’m 25, so no, I don’t remember when law firms were a confederation of 1-person corporations. I’ll have to look into this more, though the IRC is complicated enough without adding clever ways to shut down such loopholes.
“A 30 day “pause” for borrowers 90 days in the hole?
One someone has taken the hit to their FICO from a 90 day late, does 30 days even matter?”
Exactly, grim – how does walking away hurt these people? Their credit score is already effed.
Any reasonable person advising someone who’s 90 days late and significantly underwater has to at minimum suggest the walkaway.
I’m pretty sure that the Hope Now hotline won’t do that.
In Canada there is no home mortgage deduction and houses are priced 20% less to account for a lack of the mortgage deduction. They should do that here too if they want to make homes more affordable and generate more tax revenue. Of course they won’t do it. I love todays paper had multiple articles about the falling real estate prices and what govt should do to prevent prices from falling, then a few pages in there is another article about like of affordable housing and how the govt needs to step in to make housing more affordable Wow they are going to help raise and lower prices at the same time.
BTW I am asking what most people are doing with their bonus today and everyone is banking it. That is good news for the markets. Bad news for business.
Anyone know how the 30yr fixed mortgage will be affected by todays announcements? Heading higher or lower? I see 10yr bond is up.
John #164,
What level employees are we talking about, and what kind of bonus range (if you don’t mind sharing)?
Just curious…
“From my vantage point the problem of financial irresponsibility seems to be within ALL age groups.”
Agree (and I’m over 35). How old were all the bankers, brokers, angents, mortgage originators, etc. Heck – how old are all the CEOs who have driven their corporations into the toilet?
Corcoran
Mozillo?
Hovnanian?
New low-interest loan product targets New Jersey urban centers
Urban Plus satisfies a need for financing medium-size projects in the
targeted municipalities of Atlantic City, Camden, East Orange,
Elizabeth, Jersey City, Newark, New Brunswick, Paterson and Trenton.
http://c-n.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080212/FRONT01/80212012
f this mf’n bailout.
“From my vantage point the problem of financial irresponsibility seems to be within ALL age groups.”
Agree (and I’m over 35). How old were all the bankers, brokers, angents, mortgage originators, etc. Heck – how old are all the CEOs who have driven their corporations into the toilet?
Corcoran
Mozillo?
Hovnanian?
Prince?
The list goes on.
How old is that Doyle guy who sent his kid to school with the house and HELOC’ed to get the money to invest everything in Pets.com?
How old is Shore’s friend living in the basement with his two Lincolns?
I agree that the 20-30 set may have no idea what they’re in for (hi, pretorius), but I don’t think that they’re particularly more lazy or irresponsible than 20-somethings were in the 60s.
And one thing I know for sure is that they are not responsible for the mindset that preceded the RE bubble with the dotcom bubble.
People from all generations peed in this pool, and I’m not sure that pointing out that the older ones knew better and the younger ones didn’t reflects well on the older ones.
Just came back from Basking Ridge, had to go on some personal business. Drove by this house on South Finley (251 I believe) in the ugliest yellow I’ve ever seen. Loud and gaudy.
thatBIGwindow Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 11:46 am
#152: I thought things were great under Bush II
I am happy for you. Wanna buy my house?
Grim – feel free to delete my truncated effort at 167
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/apwire/2a353c4b659dd280b52459591ca5e60f.htm
I disagree, for the most part the first time home owners stupid enough to buy were all under 35, can blame the old folks for trying to take advantage.
“From my vantage point the problem of financial irresponsibility seems to be within ALL age groups.”
Agree (and I’m over 35). How old were all the bankers, brokers, angents, mortgage originators, etc. Heck – how old are all the CEOs who have driven their corporations into the toilet?
Corcoran
Mozillo?
Hovnanian?
Prince?
“the IRC is complicated enough without adding clever ways to shut down such loopholes.”
It’s already filled with closed loopholes, most of which address interactions between individuals and corporations.
# 148
Buy for a dollar, sell for two.
all levels, in general in line with what all firms that made money are doing, 50% cash and 50% LTI, usually the range is 50% to 80% of total comp. Of course I am talking rank and file. The officers and traders who are under contract or are on a true Executive Level always get a lot more. Goldman, Chase, etc. are in same ballpark. The other firms like Merrill and Lehman gets same % bonus of base but there is more geared towards LTI tied to future stock price and gave a lot less cash. I heard Bear was cheapo this year. SIFMA puts together a book you have to buy for a few hundred bucks with all the info.
Can I get a survey of percentage loss on savings folks have had since 11/1/07? Include cash, tax deferred and liquid assets. Exclude real estate.
I’m down 5%.
The go-go real estate market we experienced made most folks forget about the premium that is typically associated with a fast, no-hassle closing.
Funny, how a seller will let a property sit vacant for 6 months, all the while paying property taxes, insurance, utilities, and the mortgage interest without so much as a flinch. (I’ll even go so far as to ignore the time value of money)
But to turn down an offer a few thousand under asking? “Unthinkable! Preposterous! I’m not just going to give this away!”
Didn’t we learn anything from the dot.com era? Burn Rate 101.
“People from all generations peed in this pool”
patient,
I agree. This pile of s#it did not discriminate. All age groups decided to jump in and get dirty. Greed/fear does not check your license at the door. The market does what it always does best, suck in the majority at/near a market peak or capitulation at/near the bottom. Mr. Market could give a s*it if you are 25 or 75.
Thanks John.
159 Rich
Agreed. All age groups have more “things” now than in the past.
156 kettle
Agreed. Pain all around.
170 njpatient
Agreed. Very good point.
Ann Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 11:30 am
chi I can’t comment on what you see in your business. I guess I can only comment on what I see people I know doing. Perhaps I’m naive, or perhaps we just disagree on this one. I don’t think the overspending on SUVs and lattes is the major problem.
Ann: everyone has their own version of SUVs and lattes, whether it is going to the bar, spending too much to micromanage kids, cigarettes……you get the point…
180 grim
Six months and more like a year or so. Some of these houses are going to be taken back by the earth soon they’ve been sitting empty so long.
152. Don’t forget Woodrow Wilson-Prosperity-WWI.
# 180
Time value of money, one of the most important things I have imparted to my kids.
Huckabee might be the “Best Candidate” for the current problems. He seems to be the only one who believes in Miracles, which may be the only answer.
Conversation from early December:
chicago: You have to cut back spending. Be careful with the holiday presents.
client: But I promised my sister I would buy XXXXXX for my niece and nephew. I already have it in the house.
chicago: I think you would be wise to return it.
client: It is non-negotiable.
chicago: You are not negotiating with me. You paid me to advise you. See what happens when the credit card company tells you their terms are non-negotiable.
End of meeting.
184 chi
I get your point. I’m actually super frugal on such things, which is the funny part about this whole conversation.
I guess I just get annoyed when the whole age thing comes into it, like it’s the young folks who can’t say No to the newest gadget and are causing all the problems. A lot of young people are just buckling under the weight of trying to buy a house, keep cars going so they can go to work, pay off student debt, save for retirement, save for their kids college, on and on.
188
“I didn’t major in math, I majored in miracles.”
Best quote of the pol season so far.
Ann #190,
…keep cars going so they can go to work
That is a big one. One could argue that the PITI payments are optional (I could rent instead) or even that I don’t need cable. But there is no getting around the very real need for two reliable automobiles. The price of two cars + gas + insurance + maintenance.
I disagree, for the most part the first time home owners stupid enough to buy were all under 35, can blame the old folks for trying to take advantage.
Okay, but a ridiculously large percentage of home purchases were investment homes. Add in so-called second homes & vacation homes (mostly just thinly veiled investment homes…”I’ll take a few vacations in it before cashing it in for big profits when I retire”), and it’s really a big number. First time buyers were not capable of bidding up prices to such Bacchanalian levels by themselves.
191. Ann
I think all televised debates should have a large mirror behind each candidate, so we can see which ones don’t cast a reflection in the mirror. Never hurts to have all the facts.
#192
this is why a gas tax doesn’t work unless we improve public transportation.
“I disagree, for the most part the first time home owners stupid enough to buy were all under 35, can blame the old folks for trying to take advantage. ”
What about the people who were stupid enough to lend?
The old folks didn’t “take advantage,” they destroyed the banking system.
How old is greenspan?
Renting #193,
We below 35’ers were the plankton. Perhaps we jumped in before it was our time but there’s no way plankton alone created this mess.
196. Greenspan once said “Older then Dirt”, but I think he was joking.
Ready to buy #195,
this is why a gas tax doesn’t work unless we improve public transportation.
Improve? Try create from the ground up. Public transportation doesn’t even exist in most places I need to go.
McCain said “I am older than dirt” and that he has more scars than Frankenstein…..
How endearing.
AIG – This is why FS is in trouble and hard to value.
Material Weakness — PricewaterhouseCoopers has suggested a lack of oversight at
AIG has lead to a material weakness in financial controls.
Inability to Quantify — AIG stated that it doesn’t have the ability to reliably quantify
market values that underlie certain underwritten financial guarantees. It may have
improperly estimated the valuations for the CDS portfolio managed by its AIG
Financial Products (AIGFP) financial guaranty unit.
Misinformation — Previously, AIG disclosed that it used indices, available market
observable information and management judgment to come to a valuation.
However, it appears that available market information has not provided reliable
information with which to analyze current losses.
The Next Shoe — This may call into question AIG’s worst-case scenario where it
writes off all BBB-rated and lower 2H05 subprime collateral, all ’06-’07 subprime
and all CDOs rated A or lower, and only suffers a $600 million loss.
Bigger Numbers — AIG stated that the portfolio observed a mark-to-market loss of
$1.6 billion as of 11/30/07. That number could be as high as $6 billion,
compounded by any further deterioration observed in the past 11-12 weeks.
Model Changes — We are assuming a $5 billion loss in capital markets, which
brings our 4Q07E EPS to zero. While we expect to revise our price target when AIG
reports earnings, the lack of transparency makes such a change largely arbitrary at
this time.
# grim Says:
>Good luck playing this game with a ‘big-name’ shop. >While I do know agencies that have cut commission to >make up the bid/ask spread and get the deal done, >most won’t bite.
So they rather loss the deal and higher commission, than charge the seller less commission and everyone wins?
In some European countries (e.g., UK), buyer agents are rare, most transactions are done directly with the listing agent act as a dual agent. The buyer’s lawyer look after interest of the buyer. I really don’t see the added value of a buyer agent, despite clot’s “plug” yesterday (with all due respect to you, clot!)
#57 John
Anyone who prays for pain needs to check themselves, don’t you have better things to pray for? How about your salvation!
I see a big difference between my lifestyle and my parents’ and grandparents’ lifestyles. It is expected now that you will drive a newish car, take vacations that require passports, eat out at restaraunts, have entertainment systems (big TV, computer, etc).
My parents and grandparents had one car, never took a vacation more than a few hours drive away, very rarely ate out and entertained friend at home over dinner or games. They had their equivalents of the iPod: a 35mm cameras or short wave radios that were used for 10+ years.
I’m naturally inclined to be cheap, so it is very easy to see how much money we waste on non-essential items.
Latrell Sprewell being foreclosed!
I believe there has been an increasing “get rich quick” mentality in the U.S. over the past 20-30 years.
As our society has become more stratified in terms of wealth and wealthy people have become ever more distant from the majority, the majority seems to have accepted that wealth is achieved by something resembling magic.
I think if you asked 100 random people on the street whether hard work is the path to wealth, 99 of them would laugh in your face.
Becoming wealthy is like getting struck by lightning or winning a massive bet on roulette. So the same type of people who spend 10% of their salary on lottery tickets are the same people who watched Donald Trump and decided to try to get lucky with houses.
They are all ages and races and all levels of experience, but the one thing they probably have in common is a belief that the only way to “make it” is to take impossibly stupid risk, since working hard and playing it safe gets you nowhere.
Many of us have pointed out various different reasons for the cause of our generations enormous debts.
I like to think that the drop in the real working wage has a lot more to do with it than our need to buy lots of crap.
Using my family as an example…My great grandmother came over to escape the Russian progroms (her parents died on the trip). She lived in a tenement. Her daughter bought a small split in Lynbrook, NY. Her daughter, my mother, bought a 4 bedroom colonial in East Brunswick NJ. Which brings us to my older siblings and me. It appears that my older siblings have been able to afford much more home than their younger brother (me). We are all pretty close to being equally successful and I am by far the cheapest of the bunch (except maybe for one sister in Cincinnati).
I think the problem was a combination of the lower real wage, (vs. inflation) combined with the lack of affordability of owning real estate.
We all feel it is a birthright to outdo our parents. Well guess what? It isn’t! But for those that have saved and invested instead of driving an M3, we too will have a much larger home than our parents.
I just hope the M3 drivers are comfortable in their cars because it may become their real estate.
grim, got a comment in moderation, not sure what the trigger was
The biggest waste of money these days are cars. The suburban fleet of two new SUVs per house consume as much money as a mortgage payment on a modest house, and they are considered manditory these days.
My parents and grandparents had one sedan and made everything fit.
Also, who comes up with the required size of a house to raise a family? The house I grew up in was 1200 sq. ft. and I had no idea it was considered tortously small until I was in my late 20’s and everyone talked about how you can’t raise kids with less than 3000 sq. ft.
Re Sprewell:
http://www6.comcast.net/sports/articles/nba/2008/02/11/Sprewell.Yacht/
Stan #208,
We have two compacts. We can’t make do with just one. We both work and go in opposite directions.
Not every dual income family with two incomes is being wasteful.
“just hope the M3 drivers are comfortable in their cars because it may become their real estate.”
Stu,
LOL.
So under 35 is young and over 35 is old? I’m old?
I remember more than 1 of the last recessions. Does that make me really old?
I’ll just sign up for my walker now and cancel the gym membership.
Funny part of sprewell is it is a 400K house with 100K equity.
most cars pulled over are red.
why?
because they make more red cars.
boomers are bigger so they contribute more to the problem. x & y are to blame too.
its all soylent green to me.
Renting – you are SO right about the second home crowd. All those HELOCS to fund the second/vacation home – the one they would go and live in at retirement and sell the original to fund the lifestyle of their dreams. All older people.
Vegas bubble was mostly the older retirement crowd. Same with a lot of Florida. Housing in place of retirement saving.
Oh well. THAT idea is down the crapper.
A dual working couple driving two two single passenger cars in opposite directions each day is about as wasteful as you can get.
What if they were simply roommates? Also wasteful?
John #216,
Well, then propose a better solution that doesn’t involve either of us quitting our jobs. FWIW, she can’t work where I work and I can’t work where she works.
I’m listening.
cf,
What is the average income/net worth of those who work with financial advisors? What services are offered?
Just curious.
Thanks
“I’ll just sign up for my walker now and cancel the gym membership.”
lisoosh,
Quantity discounts?
SYnc
I agree with you.
Me and my wife are in a similar situation. what you/ we are looking at is a classic optimization problem. you may be able to get a job near yo wife but at a lower income that does not make up the difference even with reduced transportation costs.
For me and my wife it is cheaper to live somewhere in the middle then closer to either one of our jobs. You also have to consider that for many people their jobs are far from permanent. most people change jobs every couple of years. so should people up and move every time they change their job?
circumstances often dictate that an increased commute is the least costly life style a
adjustment.
foreclosure special report on npr now.
njn.net
Taking a holistic view of two income families, one should work in private sector and try to maximize short term cash flow, the other should work in public sector and guarantee long term retirement benefits for life. They should live in proximity of public sector job, so that public sector spouse has minimum commute and ready access to kids and school. Ideal would be one earner should be a teacher in their chidren’s school, in the town they live in. Alternatively, a policeman in the town they live in.
Marito (127, 146),
Montclair is shaped like a vertical rectangle.
The northern portion is Upper Montclair where a premium is paid for the name. The homes are well kept because the money is there. In the center of the rectangle is the shopping district of Upper Montclair which has foofy shops that sell to the non-value minded. Think mom and pop clothing stores/stationers and William Sonoma. Also think white.
The Southern portion of Montclair is simply known as Montclair, but I like to call it Lower Montclair. This is where more of the diaspora from Park Slope move to. Not only are the houses more affordable, but depending on how close you are to Walnut Street or Bloomfield Avenue, you may be able to give up your car and walk to restaurants and shops that are significantly less foofy than in Upper Montclair. They are still Montclair expensive, but you can get a coffee at Cafe Eclectic for half of what it costs at Starbucks in Upper Montclair. This part of town shows it’s diversity and there are both apartment buildings and lots of multi-family homes here.
The whole length of Montclair has various North-South roads. For the most part, as you move West, you head up the (First) mountain and the houses become more mansion like and reach a pinnacle at Upper Mountain Drive. Above there is Overlook Drive which has fantastic city views and many newer homes with modern architectural flare. When in the area, definitely take a a drive down it, but I doubt you could afford it.
South of Bloomfield Ave running from West to East begins with Estate section, where many of our celebrities live. As you get closer and closer to the border of West Orange and East Orange, it gets a little more like West Orange and East Orange.
My wife eluded to being on the wrong side of the tracks. Well if you follow the tracks from Little Falls down to Glen Ridge, there is definitely a drop in home values. Especially in the southwest corner of the town. This is the area to get the best barbecue, but also the area to not venture out alone at night.
The interesting thing about Montclair is the magnet school system which ensures the minorities from the Lower Montclair get to attend the same schools as the white folks in Upper Montclair. So regardless of where you live, you can attend any of the schools (if your lucky). If your white, you have to play the lottery. If your in the minority, well you get to choose. How is this fair? I don’t know, but us liberals seem to be cool with it.
To me, the diversity of Montclair and the fine eating establishments and foreign film houses and cultural activities are what separates us from our buddies in Essex County. We are liberal to no end and at times it can be just plain annoying listening to people argue endlessly about things like war and solar energy. But I’ll take it over arguments fabricated in the post.
Personally, I think the area between Walnut Street and Chestnut provide the best value and the best of all words. The crime is a little lower, the population is diverse and you can still walk to the stores and restaurants on Bloomfield Avenue. If you want to try to outdo your neighbors and take a bus to New York instead of the train, go West and North. If you want to get good barbecue and live among those who work at the rib joint, move to the SE corner of town down by Bay Street.
The choice is yours.
kettle #221,
Almost all jobs are temporary.
Mopeds!!!!
That is the solution to the single commuter issue.
Smart Cars are now here – Ray Catena’s has them and there was one parked outside of Stop and Shop the other day. Just have to wait until you can get one second hand. Perfect for single commuters with stuff who want to be protected from the elements.
lso, who comes up with the required size of a house to raise a family? The house I grew up in was 1200 sq. ft. and I had no idea it was considered tortously small until I was in my late 20’s and everyone talked about how you can’t raise kids with less than 3000 sq. ft.
you know I think I am going to throw up…
I am soo tired of people saying that we all want 300sqft houses. I am looking at 1920 cape-cods which are 800sqft, and priced well x4 average income for the area – central Jersey..
Please stop stupid nonsense about 3000+++ sqft houses.
Al #227,
I have a friend who moved out to Dallas into a brand new 4000 sq ft mansion and can’t stop talking about it. He even has two wallet sized pictures of it in his wallet, one of the front exterior and one of the beautiful (swoon) center hallway.
Sync,
Tell him / her to send you a wallet sized picture of their AC bill in the summer…
Of course, 4000 sq. ft. is the new 3000 sq. ft.
Stan #230, I guess, what the heck else are they supposed to do with all that land out in Texas.
Over at New Jersey MLS:
Now Is a Good Time to Buy
Every situation can be viewed in two ways – the positive aspects or the negative aspects. Not recognizing both can be foolish, but we must focus on one over the other as we move forward. When it comes to the current real estate market we should unquestionably be focusing on the positive. So here’s our new mantra — Now is a good time to buy! – And here’s why:
* Affordability has improved: With recent Federal Reserve interest rate cuts, mortgage rates are now at 40- year historic lows.
* Money is available: For those who meet basic requirements — employed for the last two years, have a good credit score, and plan to live in the property — you should be able to get a mortgage.
* Inventory is good: Unlike certain markets where properties sold as soon as they were listed, buyers now have more options to choose from.
Reinforce these positives with your customers. For those sitting on the fence, remind them that what they may gain by waiting for prices or interest rates to fall further may be lost later when the market is on an upswing. Purchasing a home should be based on family and lifestyle needs, balanced by sound economic decisions. If the need is there, Now is a good time to buy!
I believe the term is “Oh bother”.
Rich #232,
Well they’re half right. Affordability has improved, money is available and inventory is plentiful.
What they’re leaving out is that it’s about to get a lot more affordable, more money will be available once the current ‘crisis’ winds down and inventory won’t be getting much sparser anytime soon!
But can you blame them? They’re in sales.
or
“Feh!”
sl
You got me, my wife is a stay at home Mom and I take the train to work. I thought 2008 was a Green Year and we are all supposed to decrease our carbon footprints.
I suggest you find a new job with an equivalent raise of your wife’s annual salary and then let her have some time off. Hey it is the least she can do to support the cause of a clean enviornment for our children.
syncmaster Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
John #216,
Well, then propose a better solution that doesn’t involve either of us quitting our jobs. FWIW, she can’t work where I work and I can’t work where she works.
I’m listening.
Well Jack Nicholson will now have to say the only things in Texas are steers, queers and McMansions.
Rich,
I’m over at njmls right now.
John #235,
I will take your suggestion under consideration :D
re: Sprewell,
Captain Spree should remain a landlubber since that boat was nothing but bad luck for him anyway since he is now homeless, and most likely his common law wife/girlfriend of 18 years and his four kids will be homeless soon too.
When Sprewell was traded from the New York Knicks to the Minnesota Timberwolves in July 2003, he failed to return to Purchase NY where his common law wife of 14 years lived with their four children in a 3 million dollar home in his name only. The couple had originally agreed that she and the children would remain in Purchase NY. She is now suing him for $200 million.
Instead of returning to his family in New York, Sprewell chose to live on a yacht he had purchased in Wisconsin, the lawsuit said.
I would gather he is trying to hide whatever assets he has left.
http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_wires/2007Jan29/0,4675,BKNSprewellLawsuit,00.html
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2007/08/23/SPGT3RNR151.DTL
Average square footage of a new single-family home:
1950: 983 sq. ft.
1970: 1,500 sq. ft.
1990: 2,800 sq. ft.
2004: 2,349 sq. ft.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5525283
Grim 239 is in noderation, a follow up to Latrell Sprewell and perhaps another REO in
Purchase NY.
I made a typo in my #239, should read:
1990: 2,080 sq. ft.
OT:
it’s Snowing!!! :D [yippee]
njrereport ski trip???? anyone? anyone??
sl
JOhn,
I love your idea, but i would need to double my income. I am always open to suggestions as to how
#244 –
changing to rain tonight. sucks.
Third of recent buyers owe more than home’s value: report
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080212/bs_nm/usa_housing_zillow_dc;_ylt=Age3peRXR7xl0zkruX6G_J.yBhIF
NEW YORK (Reuters) – More than 30 percent of U.S. homeowners who bought in the last two years owe more on their mortgage than their house is currently worth, a housing market research company said on Tuesday.
Kurt (84)-
If the lenders are the end-holders of the loans- and they initiate the workout- how would that be breach of contract?
On the other hand, if servicers attempt a unilateral workout- without the consent of investors- that would be breach of contract.
I’m not an attorney, but it seems there’s a clear difference between altering contracts by mutual consent…and having the alteration imposed by a third party.
Third of recent buyers owe more than home’s value: report
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080212/bs_nm/usa_housing_zillow_dc;_ylt=Age3peRXR7xl0zkruX6G_J.yBhIF
NEW YORK (Reuters) – More than 30 percent of U.S. homeowners who bought in the last two years owe more on their mortgage than their house is currently worth, a housing market research company said on Tuesday.
hey john,
looking to hire a biochemical engineer for about 200K?
sorry if a repost.
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2008/02/10/opinion/10op.graphic.ready.html
njrebear Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
cf, What is the average income/net worth of those who work with financial advisors? What services are offered? Just curious. Thanks
bear: A better way to describe it is what is the MINIMUM income/net worth of those WANT financial advisors TO ACTUALLY GET SERVICE.
Many want finanical advisors, but most get turned down by the good ones. Honestly, it all depends. My criteria is mostly that I enjoy deal with the client (for whatever reason). If they have mega-$$$ all the better. That said, my typical client is in the $500K-$750K area, but I’ll talk to anyone under 40 who I think has a chance to get there…..
…..of the competent people, I am in the sincere MINORITY….
$500K-$750K is the investable assets…..usually people have at least that much or more in Net Real Estate Assets.
“Third of recent buyers owe more than home’s value”
This is the number 1 issue that the treasury, ib’s, politician’s, msm are avoiding.
How does Project Lifeline, Hope Now or Freeze Frame rectify this?
Bill (136)-
Anecdotally, I haven’t heard of a case of that. Seems impractical, though. Listing agents tend to favor their buyers, as the opportunities to sell are (theoretically) limitless. If and when that buyer walks away, the agent still has a listing.
To give a single buyer a break sounds to me like going all in for a play that’s not terribly high-percentage.
Why has every employer I’ve worked at in the last few years made such an attempt to get me to sign up for a financial advisor as part of my benefits package? I believe the out of paycheck premium was 4-5 dollars per pay period (twice a month) and for that I would get about 4 hours of phone time a year. It sounded like a ripoff, especially for someone who doesn’t make a lot and doesn’t own a lot.
Bear in mind….financial advisers tend deal with people who are in a range of ten years older to younger than them. As a result, my clients are mostly between 30-50. As I get older, my client wealth profile will change.
dont worry we still have a strong economy
GM offers buyouts to 74,000
Auto giant aims to replace much of U.S. workforce with lower-paid new hires, dangling $140,000 buyouts to UAW members to stem North American losses.
kettle1 #258,
74,000 new entry level hires? That’s not such a bad thing.
Bill (136)-
Plus, the only way to dual agency and legally cut the buyer a break is to reduce the gross commisison and drop the sale price by that amount, which would require the seller’s consent. Off-RESPA kickbacks are illegal.
Maybe the seller wouldn’t care, maybe he would. Even though it’s no skin off his a##, it doesn’t make an agent look good.
And, a sharp seller might then ask for a further discount, for himself.
syncmaster Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Why has every employer I’ve worked at in the last few years made such an attempt to get me to sign up for a financial advisor as part of my benefits package? I believe the out of paycheck premium was 4-5 dollars per pay period (twice a month) and for that I would get about 4 hours of phone time a year. It sounded like a ripoff, especially for someone who doesn’t make a lot and doesn’t own a lot.
sync: $120 for four hours? I charge $150 for one. Why are they offering this service? Employers have liability. If you screw up your savings by using company benefits, you can sue the company. If you use an adviser (even one referred by the company), then it is the adviser that is liable to be sued, and the employer is off the hook. This area is a huge growth opportunity my practice.
Wag (140)-
And what a wonderful price that will be! ;)
kettle1 Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
dont worry we still have a strong economy
GM offers buyouts to 74,000
Auto giant aims to replace much of U.S. workforce with lower-paid new hires, dangling $140,000 buyouts to UAW members to stem North American losses.
ket: specific to the auto industry and does not reflect the broad economy
So that’s why they keep pushing a financial advisor service with my 401k every quarter
Ready (142)-
“Doesn’t seem unethical to me if the buyer does all the research and work.”
What if all your “research” and “work” sucks? Will you pay me a premium for wasting my time?
Most of the financial “advisers” I’ve talked to are 23 yr old whippersnappers who only care about the rewards the boss gives to move lousy investments. I’m sure there are good advisers in their 20s, but if I walked into my local Ameriprise office (ha!) I would gravitate towards the graying 55 yr old over the 24 yr old.
chifi 162, interesting. Thanks.
Clotpoll Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Ready (142)-“Doesn’t seem unethical to me if the buyer does all the research and work.”
What if all your “research” and “work” sucks?
clot: same for investing…..plenty of people have knowledge, but they don’t have the analytical sophistication to identify opportunity from garbage…..or the veracity of claims in marketing…..
chicagofinance,
For those of us looking to attain the next level, please pass along your contact information to grim?
jmacdaddio Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Most of the financial “advisers” I’ve talked to are 23 yr old whippersnappers who only care about the rewards the boss gives to move lousy investments. I’m sure there are good advisers in their 20s, but if I walked into my local Ameriprise office (ha!) I would gravitate towards the graying 55 yr old over the 24 yr old.
jmac: I really have to agree with that…..I see several undergrad programs in Financial Planning and have to laugh it off. Kids ask me how to get in the business and I tell them to get a good corporate job. Get some polish in being a professional. Learn to project manage and multi-task. Learn organization and efficiency. When you get fed up with the rat race, you will be ready to be an entreprenuer, but you need to work habits and the structured approach to succeed.
Nobody wants to hear this…….
So that Fairleigh Dickinson program being advertised on Bloomberg Radio in Financial Planning won’t cut it? But the person in the ad sounds so chipper!
Wag Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
chicagofinance,
For those of us looking to attain the next level, please pass along your contact information to grim?
Wild-A%%ed-Guess: huh?
this probably wont help the long term south west realestate market…
Lake Mead Could Dry Up by 2021
By Andrea Thompson, LiveScience Staff Writer
posted: 12 February 2008 02:17 pm ET
syncmaster Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
So that Fairleigh Dickinson program being advertised on Bloomberg Radio in Financial Planning won’t cut it? But the person in the ad sounds so chipper!
sync: 80% of people entering the industry fail (whatever that means? quit doing it – whatever..)
syncmaster Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
So that Fairleigh Dickinson program being advertised on Bloomberg Radio in Financial
Not an undergrad degree…it is continuing education….
Fascinating article: Recession Road trip!
http://biz.yahoo.com/hftn/080206/020508_recession_road_trip_fortune.html?.v=1
Chifi,
My current boss is very “corporate”. He majored in some kind of business program and worked as a fiancial adviser his first year out of undergrad, then went to school for IT management. He’s done well with his own personal finance, but he said the adviser job was like Boiler Room – they got paid to move crap, and only the gullible took him seriously since he was 22 when he was doing this. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up going back to advising once he tires of the rat race. It’s something I’ve thought about myself – friends and family tend to go to me for financial advice, so I might as well learn it for real.
skep-tic Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
As our society has become more stratified in terms of wealth and wealthy people have become ever more distant from the majority, the majority seems to have accepted that wealth is achieved by something resembling magic.
I think if you asked 100 random people on the street whether hard work is the path to wealth, 99 of them would laugh in your face.
Becoming wealthy is like getting struck by lightning or winning a massive bet on roulette. So the same type of people who spend 10% of their salary on lottery tickets are the same people who watched Donald Trump and decided to try to get lucky with houses.
They are all ages and races and all levels of experience, but the one thing they probably have in common is a belief that the only way to “make it” is to take impossibly stupid risk, since working hard and playing it safe gets you nowhere.
skep-tic: From my perpsective, you have it right, but what is bothersome is that the REALLY good kids who are smart and hardworking see Sergey Brin and Larry Page as the prototype. As a result, everything you can teach them about your experience seems like useless details and nonsense.
If we crash land over the next 24 months, I am going to get booked up with kids asking all manner of questions. Let me tell you that the dot-com idiots in the Starbucks circa-2001 are going to look like world beaters compared to this coming flaccid group of iPod-zombies….
grim unmoderate
I highly doubt it is illegal. A Realtor, with a capital R has to follow those rules.Is he really breaking a law or will he just lose his real estate license? A CPA can agree to do a tax return for zero, 20 bucks or 2,000 bucks, there is no set price. Why should a realtor get paid a percentage at all and have a set a price to split commission with the other broker, if a CPA has too many clients and refers a customer to another client does he get a kick back, who knows but it is certainly not madated.
Clotpoll Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Bill (136)-
Plus, the only way to dual agency and legally cut the buyer a break is to reduce the gross commisison and drop the sale price by that amount, which would require the seller’s consent. Off-RESPA kickbacks are illegal.
Why do you need to be a biochemical engineer? Is it a want or a need? To me a job is a job, whatever pays the most balanced with how much work is required I will do.
kettle1 Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
hey john,
looking to hire a biochemical engineer for about 200K?
Wag Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Third of recent buyers owe more than home’s value: report
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080212/bs_nm/usa_housing_zillow_dc;_ylt=Age3peRXR7xl0zkruX6G_J.yBhIF
NEW YORK (Reuters) – More than 30 percent of U.S. homeowners who bought in the last two years owe more on their mortgage than their house is currently worth, a housing market research company said on Tuesday.
And this report is from ZILLOW–they make Kendra Todd look positively bearish, so we can double that 30%–at a minimum. We’re only seeing the beginning of the Walkaway Revolution . . .
John,
I agree and am currently looking to change paths. I do not “need” to be a biochemical engineer. That just happens to be my background.
here’s our new mantra — Now is a good time to buy!
What was the old Mantra?
Aggressive cuts set up a ‘firewall,’ Yellen says
4:06 p.m. 02/12/2008 By Laura Mandaro SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — The Federal Reserve has used steep and unscheduled rate cuts to throw up a “firewall” around financial disruptions to protect the economy and the larger populace, said San Francisco Federal Reserve Bank President Janet Yellen on Tuesday.
“Our job is to make sure we create enough of a firewall … so fire doesn’t hurt innocent bystanders,” she said.
And she added policymakers need to use their main tool, rate cuts, for these aims even at the expense of creating a perception that the Fed is bailing out financial markets.
“We can’t be afraid to do what’s appropriate to protect the economy because we’re so overwhelmingly afraid of the appearance intervention might have,” she told reporters after a speech here that largely repeated an economic outlook given Thursday.
NOW IS A GREAT TIME TO BUY AND SELL!!!!!!!
kettle1 Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
John, I agree and am currently looking to change paths. I do not “need” to be a biochemical engineer. That just happens to be my background.
ket: get an MBA/CFA and perform equity research in the field you are in now. Best way to get into the field is leverage your current experience. Actually, it won’t matter, employers aren’t going to give you a choice. You either cover your field, or they are not interested.
ket: take the 10-K of your current company and rip it apart…ask questions here….get a taste of the work..
thanks for the input chifi
You make is sound like fun! I was on the disclosure committee of a NYSE listed company and reviewing every word and number on those damm things pre F&AC meeting was a painful meeting. Luckily I got paid to learn how to do it.
chicagofinance Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
ket: take the 10-K of your current company and rip it apart…ask questions here….get a taste of the work..
# chicagofinance Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
kettle1 Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
John, I agree and am currently looking to change paths. I do not “need” to be a biochemical engineer. That just happens to be my background.
ket: get an MBA/CFA and perform equity research in the field you are in now. Best way to get into the field is leverage your current experience. Actually, it won’t matter, employers aren’t going to give you a choice. You either cover your field, or they are not interested.
LOL I fee that in about 3 – 6 years there will be flood of PhD/MBA in chemistry/biochemiistry. Everybody young PhD in Industry I know, including myself are planning on getting our MBA’s
al,
for that you can say thanks you to globalization
Kettle1,
I agree with chifi’s advice in #287. I flipped out of industry into investments, and it turned out to be a great career move.
If your job can be done by people in China or India or another developing country, then there is a cap on your earning potential, if you’re comp isn’t already above market.
Don’t know specifics of your job, but if it is in big pharma, then I would be prepared to either find a new career or accept 4% raises each year until you get fired.
Zwillow report holds no meaning for anybody that buy s a home to live in .It’s aether pay rent or a mortgage .More that 50% of people who bought a new car owe more on that car than it’s worth …so what …you still need a car to drive
I agree with chifi’s advice in #287. I flipped out of industry into investments, and it turned out to be a great career move.
And why is investments/financial can not be outsourced to china to India??
I’d assume it would be even easier…
Just a thought….
Robert Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Zwillow report holds no meaning for anybody that buy s a home to live in .It’s aether pay rent or a mortgage .More that 50% of people who bought a new car owe more on that car than it’s worth …so what …you still need a car to drive
________________________________________________
Very few people view their car as an “investment.”
#294 –
wrong… financing a new car with little down is reckless too. by used if you can’t afford it.
sorry — “buy” used if you can’t afford it….
New Jersey foreclosures
2007 – 4.9 percent
2006 – 4.6 percent
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.aspx?feed=AP&date=20080212&id=8181449
Additionally, even the people who view their homes as just a place to live will soon realize, if they bought in the recent past, that they could rent an equivalent or better property for a lower monthly nut, without the burden of mortgage for 125%+ equity. Once the “investment/forced savings” component of the most of these purchases are removed from the equation, they make little economic sense.
Al [295],
Spot on. Take a look at the article in post # 33.
Al #295,
At least in real estate investment, face-to-face interaction and the network effect really matter.
A big part of real estate investment, including buying securities like REITs, is visiting properties, learning about submarket trends, gathering material non-public information, and negotiating with financial partners.
This stuff can’t be outsourced to people operating out of cubicles in third world countries.
293 Pret:
… then I would be prepared to either find a new career or accept 4% raises each year until you get fired…
Very true. and this is not only limited to Big Pharma, most Multi National industries also. And don’t forget, you are just a number, if time comes to cut costs, and you are making more than your mid range on the HR scale.. you are gone.
At the end, for any Global company, you are just a number. That reminds me of some posts from a week or so ago about Company Loyalty… welcome to Global Markets, Loyalty means not much today.
pre,
Didn’t you fly to London recently to scout some investments?
If I recall, there are daily flights from Hyderabad to London as well.
Why do you assume these folks are talentless and cubicle-bound?
Any bets on how long Project Lifeline takes to become Project Flatline?
Regarding Outsourcing of Jobs: Any job that requires interpersonal contact, and hence the requisite skill set, is not ripe for outsourcing.
chi,
Want fries with that?
grim Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
chi, Want fries with that?
true…you cannot outsource McDonald’s servers
unmod
That’ll show ’em! You go builders!
Builders halt campaign gifts on subprime worry
A home builders’ group on Tuesday halted donations to federal congressional campaigns over concern that Congress and the Bush administration have not done enough to respond to the subprime mortgage crisis.
The National Association of Home Builders’ political action committee (PAC) said in a statement it has ceased contributions to candidates and their PACs until further notice.
“This extraordinary action was taken because the NAHB BUILD-PAC board of trustees felt that over the past six months Congress and the administration have not adequately addressed the underlying economic issues that would help to stabilize the housing sector and keep the economy moving forward,” it said.
Did anyone else notice very light traffic this morning? State workers had the day off. When you remove 4 out of 5 cars from the road we can all get to work a little sooner.
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newjersey/ny-bc-nj–lincolnsbirthday0211feb11,0,4849824.story
308. You can outsource McDonald’s servers by going back to 1960’s automats, manuafactured naturally in China.
Environmentally Friendly Retirees;
Working people frequently ask retired people what they do to make their days interesting. Here’s what an old retired couple had to say:
Well, for example, the other day the wife and I went into town and went into a shop. We were only in there for about 5 minutes. When we came out, there was a cop writing out a parking ticket. We went up to him and I said, ‘Come on man, how about giving a senior citizen a break?’ He ignored us and continued writing the ticket. I called him a Dumbass. He glared at me and started writing another ticket for having worn tires. So Mary called him a shithead. He finished the second ticket and put it on the windshield with the first. Then he started writing a third ticket. This went on for about 20 minutes. The more we abused him, the more tickets he wrote. Personally, we didn’t care. We came into town “by bus”. We try to have a little fun each day now that we’re retired. It’s important at our age…
JMac
I noticed lighter traffic today. Got me to work too early!
Outsourcing manufacture v. financial service–
Whether there is any inherent difference between the nature of jobs that lends one easier to outsource than the other, the current situation is that developing country is quite welcome of manufacturers but not quite welcome of financial service. If Pfizer wants to set up a giant research facility in Suzhou, China would be more than happy. If JP Morgan wants to set up a giant investment arm there, China currently has problem with it. Gatt/WTO worked out provisions for goods and the manufacturing sector long before services and the financial/legal sector.
I think that’s why it’s not ripe for outsourcing, yet.
“grim Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
pre,
Didn’t you fly to London recently to scout some investments?
If I recall, there are daily flights from Hyderabad to London as well.
Why do you assume these folks are talentless and cubicle-bound?”
Grim,
I don’t assume that Indian workers doing outsourced jobs are talentless. Definitely not.
But they are cubicle-bound. If a US company wanted to save $, then flying people from Hyderabad to do business in a place like London would be a really bad way to do it. The financial analysts in India who work for US investment shops spend their days updating Excel spreadsheets using financial docs they downloaded from the Internet. They don’t fly around the world to look for new investments.
There are plenty of industries in which experience and face-to-face contact still matter. Real estate is one of these industries.
#85 Ann: Heck, those who waste their money on luxury items aren’t in bad shape at all.
I would rethink that statement if I were you.
Nobody talks about the real problem with owning a home in New Jersey:
http://www.barstoolsports.com/article/new_jersey_freakshows/1958/
#106 sean: Well we will see about that.
Early start of the Spring market, multiple bids if prices right. The same old tired nonsense trotted out by the realotr establishment.
grim (310)-
The bribe river has run dry.
grim/chi –
Don’t be so sure that McDonalds can’t outsource:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/11/technology/11fast.html
” The Long-Distance Journey of a Fast-Food Order
SANTA MARIA, Calif. — Like many American teenagers, Julissa Vargas, 17, has a minimum-wage job in the fast-food industry — but hers has an unusual geographic reach.
What made the $12.08 transaction remarkable was that the customer was not just outside Ms. Vargas’s workplace here on California’s central coast. She was at a McDonald’s in Honolulu. And within a two-minute span Ms. Vargas had also taken orders from drive-through windows in Gulfport, Miss., and Gillette, Wyo.
Ms. Vargas works not in a restaurant but in a busy call center in this town, 150 miles from Los Angeles. She and as many as 35 others take orders remotely from 40 McDonald’s outlets around the country. The orders are then sent back to the restaurants by Internet, to be filled a few yards from where they were placed.”
grim – outsourcing comment in moderation.
In addition to the outsourcing comments – these days technology allows all sorts of interpersonal contact from enormous distances. I would never assume that any job is safe.
pret (315)-
“There are plenty of industries in which experience and face-to-face contact still matter. Real estate is one of these industries.”
Hmmm, let’s see:
1. Indians speak English.
2. Indians are better-educated than we are.
3. Indians work for about 1/4 (?) of our going wage.
Why can they not put down their Excel sheets, get onto a plane and scout out RE?
As someone who recently trained and qualified 9 Indians in Chennai (Madras), I can unequivocally (there’s that word again) say that they are just as talented and have a much greater work ethic than the average American worker. Their culture plays a lot into this. For example, their work team is often as valuable to them as their family. Plus, their family will sacrifice everything to ensure a single member success. The deplorable slums just outside of the windows of the corporate complexes are quite an incentive to get ahead and stay there.
Hell would freeze over, thaw, get vaporized and then, 10,000 years later, begin to freeze again before anyone…. anyone… with a sliver of common sense would even consider looking at this…. this…. house. The absolute gall… to ask this price takes b*lls the size of mammals unheard of even in prehistoric times.
http://www.realtor.com/search/searchresults.aspx?mlslid=2469557&ml=3&typ=7
Lots of boxes in the office. Fourteen people gone from my floor. This was just the first cut.
Worried? Not really, I am debt free and rent.
1/4 of our working wage?
All of the coworkers I trained were college educated in their specialty and paid about $4/day. With benefits/overhead, it costs our company $5/day. So for the cost of one of my team members in the US for one hour, I get 8-10 Indian workers for a whole shift. I estimate that they are 1.5 times more productive than their US counterparts.
gary (324)-
Nice to see the way the listing agent buffed up the presentation with extra photos and a Virtual Tour. ;)
You can just tell this one will go fast…
stu (326)-
Yeah, I figured I overshot my estimate.
Clotpoll,
I just ran and got me checkbook! :o
Gary, you know what your problem is? You’re cheap. Stop being so cheap and just buy the POS already! :)
me = my
gary,
trying to type a response…laughing too hard…
lostinny,
I know, I’m so out of touch. I really need to get with it. ;)
While everyone is sitting in front of the computer reading this GREAT blog, please take the time to read and sign http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?1015pigs&551 this petition against Captain Corzine, Thanks
JIM
so chifi, pre
i am actually in the first stages of making the move. i plan to take the CFA exam this spring. my next step is a double masters, an mba and either math or electrical engineering(EE). which of the 2 would carry more weight in the finance world, MS in math or EE?
Wag,
This is what happens when home sellers cook substances in dirty spoons, huddled in a dark, damp basement somewhere around East 4th Street and Avenue D.
#196 nj paitent: How old is greenspan?
You have got a point there. The Grandpappy of reckelessness
Gary. Come on just write the check, 1K- earnest deposit. You know you want to. I’m not sure the Jedi mind trick works online.
Oh no! Why is my hand writing this check… please… someone…. make it stop! AAAHHHHHH!!!
stu,
a friend of mine was just in india for similar purposes as yourself (training a team), he commented that while they were very hard workers that there was little initiative due to the culture of not challenging your superiors. this is not my opinion, just relaying a different view point.
another story for the group….
was at a cocktail party in hoboken last weekend talking to a bunch of traders. they were discussing how well greenspan handled things during his tenure at the FED and that they hope bergabe can live up to greenspans legacy. i kid you not
Dear Seller,
Don’t call us, we’ll call you.
http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?ctid=28486&mnp=33&typ=7&sid=53e23ac684e74e15bf1ae42cad6c2fa6&pg=5&lid=1092298271&lsn=42&srcnt=46#Detail
another story for the group….
was at a co*ktail party in hoboken last weekend talking to a bunch of traders. they were discussing how well greenspan handled things during his tenure at the FED and that they hope bergabe can live up to greenspans legacy. i kid you not
Gary if I wasn’t sitting down I would have just fainted. Maybe I should start posting the classic SI POS I see. Come to SI. Where you can live in an episode of The Sopranos and pay half the property tax.
gary,
did they put the “,” in the wrong place? it sounds like a steal
kettle1 [342],
Obviously they drank more vodka than I did at the counter party.
lostinny,
lol! You’re killing me!
#341 gary”Don’t call us, we’ll call you.
Yeah but they will cry when I hang up after calling them.Peopl do not like being called bloddy arseholes.
3b,
Amen to that and hey… I has hoping to met you at the party the other night. We had a great time and it only took two bouncers to toss me out. Perhaps you’ll be at the next gathering?
Here you go Gary. You’ll want to jump on this: http://newyork.craigslist.org/stn/rfs/572019938.html
Or this: http://newyork.craigslist.org/stn/rfs/571926154.html
This is my fav because no matter how many times they list it, they don’t seem to know the definition of “circa”: http://newyork.craigslist.org/stn/rfs/571611848.html
I took my funny pills today.
317
Why rethink that? You don’t need any of that stuff. I worry more about the people without health insurance who can’t make their basic bills.
344
WORST EVER, is there something else with that house, like a couple acres of land or something?
What happened to the Real Estate commentary on this board ?
For me, there were so many cultural issues to work through that it was both intriguing and annoying at the same time.
When there is a wedding (pre-arranged of course) often the entire work force will be invited. This can put a real dent in productivity. On the flip side, if you ask people to work for 24 hours straight to get through a peak, they will do it with a smile.
Your are correct about not challenging authority, but that issue can be broken with the right teacher. For instance, towards the end of the second day of training, I noticed that they were not even asking enough questions. I had formerly been warned about this and issued a test at the end of each day just to ensure they were actually comprehending the training since they have a tendency to say yes, even when it the answer should be no. Well I wasn’t happy about the lack of interaction so I stopped the training about half an hour early and opened up the floor to any question that they might have about American society or even my personal life. Although I had told them I was married during my personal introduction at the training, the first question they asked was how many girlfriends I have. I was taken back by the question, but responded that I do not have any since I’m married. They then said they thought it was typical of Americans to have many girlfriends even when married. I asked where they heard that and they said look at Bill Clinton. I sh*t you not! I never thought that his extracurricular activities had any impact on his ability to lead, but until you see it from the perspective of a culture that does not permit premarital dating, you realize that it actually does. As the questions continued, I realized that their perception of American culture was pretty much based on what they have witnessed in American movies. From that point on, the questions wouldn’t stop coming.
One other cultural thing that will drive you up a wall as a trainer is that they often nod their heads left and right when you are lecturing. It makes you feel like they don’t understand what you are saying and it prompts you to ask if anyone has any questions way more than is necessary.
I hope you guys find this stuff entertaining.
Kettle,
if you are interested in financial modeling, i would think that master in statistics or financial engineering (financial mathematcs, quantitative finance or whatever) would be more helpful. IMO, mba with spciality in finance would lead you to different career path: fund analyst/manger, financial planner, banker, trader and etc.
>kettle1 Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
so chifi, pre
i am actually in the first stages of making the move. i plan to take the CFA exam this spring. my next step is a double masters, an mba and either math or electrical engineering(EE). which of the 2 would carry more weight in the finance world, MS in math or EE?
On a busy day when I can’t read at regular intervals 338 comments are soooo hard to get thru, I really just skimmed, but lots of interesting points raised.
Re: ” Can’t Afford it”
I make it clear to my kids that it does’nt matter if I can afford it, they ain’t getting it.
Re: “Next President”
I am a registered democrat who has never voted republican and never thought I would, however I truly feel the next president will be left with such a mess they will be trashed.I am voting whoever has R next to their name. There is absolutely no way they could be worse the “W” ( although it’s close with McCain) and no way to clean up this mess in 4 years.
Re: Universal health care,
Higher copayments are a must. $40-$100 I do not go to the doctor for every sniffle and I don’t take my kids but I end up paying more for health insurance because of people who do. If premiums can be kept down due to higher usuary fees we will all be better off. I have a friend who has her kids and her parents at the doctors all the time, she can have 3-4 appts in one week for either her mom or her dad, this test, that test, obviously they suffer terribly from the disease of low co-pays.
KL
gary (344)-
I can smell the cabbage boiling now…
lost (346)-
If Staten Island has an official flag, this should be on the coat of arms:
“Where you can live in an episode of The Sopranos and pay half the property tax.”
Catchy.
Stu:
Disclosure: I am from India who has been in this country for the past 7 years.
I am not aware of the industry you work in, but $4/day for a college educated person in India is a steal!
Call center operators make more than double that amount over there.
South India is generally more conservative than the rest, you would not face these kind of issues, in say, Mumbai (Bombay). I definitely agree about the initiative thing, most of the offshore teams i have worked with, require hand-holding all the way through.
bi (357)-
How does one become a blithering, drooling stock tout and day trader?
Thanks Clot!
*curtsies*
326, 354
…did you miss the part about the kimberlite pipes located in the backyard?
gawd. really – that seller is truly smoking crack.
sl
clot(362)-
I am going to wake the house up ….
post of the day…
Clot, scroll down to the flag. The coat looks like 2 seagulls flying over the dump.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staten_Island
Hey, Stu, thanks for the summary description of Montclair!
Not a problem Marito.
Victorian, I’ll have to double check what we are paying them.
Mish doesn’t think the latest PPT plan will work:
http://www.minyanville.com/articles/index/a/15894
Back to the drawing board. I do like the names they come up with Project Lifeline, Project Hope, Project Xanax.
oh boy, get ready for a wild ride ride on the stock market tomorrow.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080212/venezuela_us_oil.html?.v=2
Stu, great post at #356.
One other cultural thing that will drive you up a wall as a trainer is that they often nod their heads left and right when you are lecturing. It makes you feel like they don’t understand what you are saying and it prompts you to ask if anyone has any questions way more than is necessary.
That’s only for south India! Yes means no, and no means yes. In north India, it’s the opposite. Just got back from a three-week getaway to India…..I think you have the $4/day figure on the lower side. Call center salaries are the minimum wage floor these days for the educated, and it’s about $12-15/day on average.
Your are correct about not challenging authority, but that issue can be broken with the right teacher.
It’s a combination of deference and respect shown towards the teacher. I remember it took me a full semester in grad school before I started addressing my professors by their first name.
kettle1 Says:
February 12th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
i plan to take the CFA exam this spring. my next step is a double masters, an mba and either math or electrical engineering(EE). which of the 2 would carry more weight in the finance world, MS in math or EE?
ket: people are going to care how you take information, run it through your head, and make money out of it…..getting stacks of paper as an end game is a waste of time…..get SKILLZ and focus on creating a persona that will allow you to finesse an interview….
If you look up the definition of “balls” in the dictonary, here is what you will find for $376k:
http://tinyurl.com/yqculy
rent (372)-
Hey! That house’s listing agent just e-mailed me a list of items included in the sale:
http://tinyurl.com/3awxc2
renting: [372]
OMFG.
and…
WTF?
stu – I found your description of your experiences in India fascinating, so definitely not wasted and much appreciated.
I’ve been learning that in doing business with China to expect to hear yes at every turn and then to have nothing happen. It appears they like to please.
Cross cultural business experiences are eye opening to say the least.
Clot, you can’t fool me….
That’s not meth. Those are spleens in those coffee filters. They are running an underground spleen transplant house and you know it…
meh.
Hey, you think that’s a good color combo to “blend in”? I GOTTA see the neighbor’s humble abodes…
other white meat (376)-
I disavow any knowledge of clandestine splenectomies.
Reuters:
Depression risk might force U.S. to buy assets
http://tinyurl.com/3alb77
Hey…
Just some musings about listings I’ve come across… I hate when agents blaze thru the entry of a listing and don’t double check what they’ve written…
1. old style stairs that wind up and around a fireplace are called “Jersey Winders” or “Pie Stairs”…not “pie crusts” stairs or “Jerseys”. Read your copy before you press save.
2. Coal is for stockings, not heat. Yes, Theresa, noone came to your open houses because you put “COAL” as the heat source. Read your copy before you press save.
3. Choosing ALL OPTIONS labeled “land”, “open land”, land, open”, “open-land”, “grass”, “lawn”, grass lawn” and “land, open type” to describe a property does magically add “land” to a propery’s features…you should pick “one” decription, not “all”.
3. Putting up a listing with a picture of hot air ballons against a backdrop of blue sky is the epitome of WTF? Or are you trying to signify part of your price “blue sky”?
/rant
spam – I’m beginning to think realtors are switching out pictures of the outsides just to make listings appear “fresh”.
I’ll click on what appears to be new, only to see the same interior I saw last year, down to identical potted plants and screen.
Either that or I’m going insane, which is a distinct possibility. I’ve seen way too many listings.
That balloon picture sounds familiar.
And what is with the people with all the cr@p hanging off of their ceilings? It’s like something out of Psycho.
Lis…
ROFL!!!
It just happened to me!!! Twice.
Cruising listings, saw kitchen, looked familiar (that’s kinda sick right there) and realized it’s same house, diff views.
“Hunting hounds” were the only pic in another listing, hounds now have company with photos of interior…bless their little hearts, only took 6 (?) months to add pics of the actual house…
I’m psycho :)… I have post & beam house with exposed timbers, you KNOW I have to hang antique crap from the timbers… Actually, a lot of people remark how nice it looks…
so maybe these sellers and realtors are finally waking up to reality, i mean i know they don’t have bricks for brains but its funny to see the same house listed for $469,000 and not sell after having been reduced a few times, while being on the market for over a year, and then about 4 weeks ago see it relisted again through a different realtor for $489,000…..?????????????
and nice to see government wants to help out some folks who took on more than they could afford, how about assisting those who decided to wait and deal with the ridiculous rent prices. perhaps there should be guidelines or rent brackets, ie you can’t rent a moldy dump for $1800/month, even if its close to a train, i’ve seen too many uncared-for dumpy rental listings rented for close to $2000. i sense that too many landlords, aside from professionaly managed properties, would rather let a leaky faucet leak and grow little particles of unseen mold than spend a little money and take care of their place and have the leak fixed
and montclair is a really great town and everything, but does everyone rent out a floor of their house so that they can cover their taxes?
jj (384):
“montclair is a really great town and everything, but does everyone rent out a floor of their house so that they can cover their taxes?”
We do. And if 2K/month is what the market will pay, then one would be stupid not to charge it.
If we didn’t charge 2K/month then it would not make sense as a rental as the income would not cover the costs. Believe it or not, landlords are not in the business of subsidizing tenants.