From CNN/Money:
Home prices in steepest quarterly drop
Home prices continued their plunge during the last three months of 2007, setting a real estate trade group’s record for the biggest-ever quarterly drop. .
The national median price drop of 5.8%, to $206,200 from $219,300, was the steepest ever recorded by the National Association of Realtors (NAR), which has been compiling the report since 1979.
…
Each of the four U.S. regions recorded losses compared with the fourth quarter of 2006. The West took the worst hit, at 8.7%. Prices dropped 4.8% in the Northeast, 5.4% in the South and 3.2% in the Midwest.
From Bloomberg:
Home Prices Fall in Record 77 U.S. Metro Areas, Realtors Say
Home prices fell in a record number of U.S. metropolitan areas in the fourth quarter, according to a report released today by the National Association of Realtors in Chicago.
The median sale price of a U.S. home dropped 5.8 percent to $206,200 in the last three months of 2007 compared with $219,000 in the same period of 2006, the realtors group said today. Prices fell in 77 of 150 metropolitan areas, the most since the group began tracking values in 1979. The drop was 10 percent or more in 16 regions, the association said.
…
U.S. home sales fell 21 percent in the last three months of 2007, according to the report.
By how much did NJ home prices drop in 2007?
Thanks.
Haven’t looked, in a meeting.
Not that I particularly care for the NAR numbers, OFHEO and S&P Case Shiller are both better measures.
The state-level data is usually posted on the NJAR website 6 weeks after the end of the quarter, so it should appear any day now.
I created a few charts using the NAR’s New Jersey data. After the 4th quarter results are out, I’ll send updated charts to grim so he can post them. Unfortunately, the data only goes back to 2000 so it isn’t very helpful for analyzing past cycles.
The 4Q06 number was $360,000. My forecast for 4Q08, which I posted here in January, is $355,000. This forecast is consistent with my expectation of stagnant – not crashing – home prices during the current downleg in the housing cycle. I expect the 4Q07 number to be somewhere in the $350s.
Yes, I’m aware of the limitations stemming from the NAR’s methodology. It is a raw median price number, so doesn’t adjust for mix shift or seasonality.
Still, it is a useful resource for people who like to track trends in New Jersey home prices and sales volumes.
in the past RE bear markets the prices have declined the most in the first two years. Assuming the peak was in Fall 2005 why is this only happening now in Fall 2007 and Winter 2008?
Any explanantions. why is history not repeating itself?
I just happened upon another real estate blog for the northern Virginia area and the price declines there are shocking. Here you have properties that sold a year ago for 300 – 400K now on the market for $150K. It’s totally crashing.
I think it adds some perspective to what’s happening in NJ. Compared to this, prices are holding up extremely well here…so far. Comp killers here are $10% less than 2006 price. There, it’s 70% off.
Look at the properties in the top discounts column.
http://novabubblefallout.blogspot.com/
I think the reason why “history is not repeating itself” here is because there is far more money at risk here. If sellers capitulate in a place where houses went from $125-$200 over the course of 6 years, it’s less to swallow then going from 700 down to 450 in this area. That, combined with the fact that people know they will have to bring a check to closing to cover an amount they simply do not have will cause them to hold on to the house, no matter how unrealistic it is to us.
x –
Maybe those are in some of the outlying suburbs where they built McMansions, and now there are problems with houses being rented out like boarding houses?
Scribe,
The better towns in that area are still totally freakin’ ridiculous. See what $800,000 buys you in Bethesda, MD or Arlington, VA.
It’s only a matter of time before they come down too. Those other towns are only 10 miles away.
Spitzer is now testifying in the House banking committee to along with Eric Denallo on the State of the Bond Insurance Industry.
Lots of sobering testimony in both the House and Senate today.
Senator Reed stated that his constituents in Rhode Island feel that housing prices will decline 30% in the coming year and it will effect their lifestyle and they won’t be able to send their kids to college since they will have negative equity to borrow against.
Most of the testimony is focused around subprime fallout and how it is effecting the greater economy. The fact that the Port Autority bonding issue have been talked about several times already
Worth a watch on streaming on CNBC since we will see greater momentum for a government bailout or intervention as a result to prop up the housing markets.
X –
I’d agree – I think there is a huge demand for lower-priced starter homes in the area – everything I am looking at in central Jersey in half-decent town, If it is priced under 230K it is sold within a week.
What gives it a floor here:? – average rents are 1500$/month for 2 bedroom apartments.
So a lot of people think – ok so what is extra 500-700/month – we get great interest tax deduction (not realizing that standard deduction will be eliminated for them).
Then reality of NJ real estate taxes will settle in.
I think people who are buying those are foolish, as 230K houses are usually completely dilapidated and initial costs to update them would include removing oil tanks/septic, replacing roofs and burners and other Major stuff.
But it does seem that there are a lot of renters here who are impatient/(ignorant of extra costs of home-ownership) and since they have seen those houses in 2006 spring being listed at 300+k they believe they are getting a steal.
(for example where I rent right now – In Piscataway there was one!!! house in Feb 2006 listed under 300K – it was 299, I looked at it…. Scary…)
Also a lot of people underestimate costs of heating the house – a lot of apartment renters in NJ have landlord pay forheat/trush/hot water/other utililies.
But all people see it 1500$ thrown away on rent vs. 2000$ Mortgage payments -and we will get it all back when we sell…
I fully expect those houses to be back in the market in 2010.
TO recap my explanation:
– NJ is highly populated with a lot of renters, high rents are propping lower entry level housing..
I said it last year – it seems that If you can just get out of Entry Level Housing you can find a lot better value for your money.
As far as Virginia houses selling at 40% – Mortgage Fraud.
The Situation is exactly the same here watch as Mercer County falls off the map, them somerset, then Morris, then Essex, then Passaic, then Bergen, finally the gold coast will collapse, and then as the market gets ugly Manhattan takes a beating. Basically the potent one two punch of a loss in home value, layoffs, restructuring, etc will force sales. When people can no longer hang onto their homes is when they will capitulate. I know some people selling homes, they want bigger places etc., the best offers are coming in at generally 2003/2004 levels right now. These people are not forced to sell and thus will wait it out.
I wonder if rent prices have changed dramatically in markets where the crash is deep.
pret-
It is a raw median price number, so doesn’t adjust for mix shift or seasonality.
1] Isn’t your estimate something like -10% to +5%?
2] Are prices adjusted for season? I thought it was only the volume.
Is it going to be this weekend?
Bond insurers have days to re-capitalize, Spitzer says
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/bond-insurers-have-days-re-capitalize/story.aspx?guid=%7BF274E53A%2D6BA6%2D4B46%2DA87F%2DFDA51395AE5E%7D&dist=hplatest
#9
The whole issue of borrowing against your home to finance college just seems so bizarre to me. I can’t even imagine borrowing lots of money from my home to pay for my children to go away to college. That will not be happening. They will either be able to get some type of scholarship or financial aid or they will stay home and commute to a state college.
The fact that so many parents have been borrowing for college goes along with them leasing luxury cars and putting no money down for McMansions – it’s all to look rich while not really being rich.
“This forecast is consistent with my expectation of stagnant – not crashing – home prices during the current downleg in the housing cycle.”
pret,
I’m sure your forecast will have a pacifying effect on Bob Toll.
PMI, one of the largest mortgage insurers, said in the filing that on March 1 it will stop covering home loans with loan-to-value ratios of more than 97%.
So home prices are predicted to fall 5% in 2008, what good is 3% down?
Or hopefully you’ve started a 529 savings paln when they were born.
9
Borrowing against home equity makes some sense in that the interest on the loan is tax-deductible. Student loan interest is also tax deductible, but (IMO, based on what folks have told me), I think there’s a cap on the amount. Also, equity loans, 2d mortgages, HELOCs oftentimes have lower interest rates. Further, a lot of folks are just lazy; it’s easier to tap further into the home’s value than to present it as collateral for some other third party.
I would put borrowing for educational expenses in a somewhat different category than cars and lifestyle accessories. Even the most shallow parents would place their status pretty far down the list of priorities when it comes to getting little Brittany or Elias into the “right” college.
Even better, kids are so incredibly stupid that they don’t realize that if 50 year old Mom and Dad pulls 200k out of their 401k, Stocks and or home equity for them when they are 21 years old for their expensive school the 51 year old version of them selves will be out 800K, investments double on average every ten years.
They are stealing from their own inheritances or even worse putting their parents in the poor house so when they are 50 year old with kids of their own in college they will be stuck supporting their parents as they swiped all their money for a expensive school.
Then again these soul-less kids will probably just chuck Mom and Dad in a welfare rat infested nursing home and stiff their kids in their college tuition, Hey it is all about them.
Willow Says:
February 14th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
#9
The whole issue of borrowing against your home to finance college just seems so bizarre to me. I can’t even imagine borrowing lots of money from my home to pay for my children to go away to college. That will not be happening. They will either be able to get some type of scholarship or financial aid or they will stay home and commute to a state college.
The fact that so many parents have been borrowing for college goes along with them leasing luxury cars and putting no money down for McMansions – it’s all to look rich while not really being rich.
Home prices in Ocean and Monmouth counties rise a notch….Home prices in the area that includes Monmouth and Ocean counties inched up in the fourth quarter, rising by 0.5 percent from the same period the year before, the National Association of Realtors said today.
The median sale price for an existing single-family home in Monmouth, Ocean,
Middlesex and Somerset counties was $370,300, up $1,800, from $368,500 in the same quarter in 2006, the association said. The median means that half the homes in the area sold for more and half sold for less.
http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080214/NEWS/80214023
When all your eggs are in one basket, why does it seem so odd to dip into the basket when you need an egg?
I am a little unsold about the whole IVY league college thing in a way. My sister-in-law paid 200K to send her daughter to an out of state ivy league school of course she interviewed on campus in that state and is dating a boy in that state and she just announced this week she accepted a job in that state and when she graduates this May she is never coming back.
Her brother who is one year younger, goes to a local college, has a nearby girlfriend and is interning this summer in NYC and will look for a job in NYC upon graduation and has no intention of leaving the area as all his roots are here.
So basically, she skimped and saved for years to pay 200K to send her only daughter out of state and lose her forever. Oh well, you roll a dice and sometimes it is snake eyes.
19)
Pops, don’t hit yourself with the cane you’re waving.
20#, mr. penn, thank you for the link. the price is crashing upward in NNJ.
“Other areas of New Jersey saw steeper increases by percentage.
For instance, the median price in an area that includes Essex, Hunterdon, Morris,
Sussex and Union counties rose 5.3 percent, and the price in the region that includes Bergen, Hudson and Passaic counties rose 3.6 percent. Atlantic County’s median price rose 10.7 percent. Nationally, prices fell 5.8 percent, according to the real estate association.”
Totally off-topic, but here’s one for you JB:
# Rumor hints at either iPhone tethering or iTunes glitch
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/02/13/rumor_hints_at_either_iphone_tethering_or_itunes_glitch.html
#17
That’s fine if you have extra money to put aside in a 529 plan. I don’t have any extra money to put away for college. Due to a lay-off a few years ago, we are very behind saving for retirement so that comes first. We will help as much as we can when the time comes but we won’t be spending $50,000/year for college.
I don’t see what’s wrong with commuting to a state college? Wouldn’t it be better to have no debt, whether it’s the parent or the child, when graduating from college?
Willow Says:
February 14th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
#9
“They will either be able to get some type of scholarship or financial aid or they will stay home and commute to a state college.”
Glad I’m not the only “mean parent” out there. I’ll cover the cost of state college and that’s it. If they want the fancy school they can EARN the fancy school by working hard and getting a scholarship.
Plus I’m totally making my kids get summer jobs when they are old enough.
Never too early to develop a work ethic.
here is the rule on student loan interest:
*****
You may be able to deduct up to $2,500 each year from your gross income if you’ve paid interest on a qualified education loan for qualified higher education expenses during the year.
To be eligible for the deduction, your modified adjusted gross income (MAGI) must fall below a threshold figure. The deduction begins to phase out as your MAGI exceeds $50,000 if you’re single or $100,000 if you’re married and file jointly. It phases out completely when your MAGI exceeds $65,000 ($130,000 for married persons filing jointly). These amounts are indexed for inflation. No deduction is allowed if your filing status is married filing separately.
*******
so basically, if you’re a married couple with a pair of decent jobs ($65k each), student loan interest payments are made with post-tax dollars.
As for using a HELOC to pay for college, I would say that it is obviously not the ideal way to go, but practically speaking, a great many middle class families could not do it any other way. College is ridiculously expensive and very few schools meet 100% of demonstrated need when it comes to financial aid.
I personally think we are reaching the edge of affordability when it comes to college, and if easy credit is cut off for middle class people, a lot of colleges are going to be in trouble.
#26.
Don’t sweat it. There are definite pros and cons to both. 529 plans can hurt your kid when if/when they apply for aid/loans.
Liz Pulliam Weston (I think) has good article on this. — I’ll google it and get back to you.
sl
Are bulk contributions to 529 tax deductable?
x – Good site for Virginia.
Not sure if this article from WSJ was posted earliet,
Why Baby Boomers May Bust the Housing Market
Using demographic data to show that individuals in their mid-60s tend to sell more often than buy, the authors contend that when boomers — a “dominant force in the housing market” — start reaching the age of 65 in the year 2011, a market shift will occur. Some retirees will be looking to downsize, others will relocate to warmer climes, while others will move to nursing homes, says Mr. Myers. As they transition out of the housing market or look to sell their homes, in some states there will be “more homes available for sale than there are buyers for them.” Home prices will soften.
“In some states like New Jersey, it could be 20 years before prices recover,” he says, explaining that the generational trend is one that could stretch for decades.
The last comment was an eye-opener.
lisoosh Says:
February 13th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
On Laura Bush vs. Michelle Obama-
Neither can hold a candle to Elizabeth Edwards.
– – I agree. – –
sl
#30
I live in CT, and I know the rule there is that up to $10,000 per year contributed to a 529 is deductible from AGI for state income tax purposes. You can contribute more than $10,000 per year and carry over the amount for up to 5 additional years. So in CT, the maximum tax efficient amount you can contribute in 1 year is $60,000 (deduct $10,000 in year zero, then $10k in each of years 1-5). Don’t know the rule for NJ, but I would think it would be similar
Here it is:
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/CollegeAndFamily/SavingForCollege/The5BestCollegeSavingsPlans.aspx
The 5 best college-savings plans
Section 529 plans let families save for college and on taxes, too. But there are so many plans it’s hard to tell them apart. Here’s what to look for.
Liz Pulliam Weston
Before I tell you the best 529 college savings plans, a caution: Never trust any article that purports to tell you what the best college-savings plan is for you.
Such a feat is impossible. There are too many variables involved in assessing these state-run, tax-deferred vehicles, including:
Where you live, and whether that state offers tax breaks and other incentives for its plan
The age of your child
Your risk tolerance
Even if you could identify the one perfect 529 plan for your needs, you can’t guarantee its management won’t change or its performance won’t slip before your child graduates.
Furthermore, some options that are essential for one investor would be irrelevant for another. An active investor might want a plan that offers a number of different investment options so she can tailor the portfolio, for instance, while a busier parent might be happy to turn the asset allocation decisions over to the pros by using an age-weighted option (where the exposure to stocks is reduced as the child nears college age).
Still the best savings tool
The 529 college savings plan, if you need a primer, allows you to put aside money for a future education. The money grows tax-deferred and, at least under current law, is tax-free when withdrawn if used to pay qualified education expenses. Contributors (usually the parents) retain control of the accounts, which also receive favorable treatment in financial-aid calculations.
Some 529 plans have gotten a bad rap lately for poor performance and high expenses, but that shouldn’t taint the whole crowd. For many families they are, as 529-guru and CPA Joseph Hurley puts it, the best way to save for college. (For more information on college savings options, see “College plans for the rich, poor and in-between.”)
When choosing a 529 plan, you should keep the following in mind:
ENJOY!!
sl
Thanks skep-tic.
SG Says:
February 14th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Not sure if this article from WSJ was posted earliet,
Why Baby Boomers May Bust the Housing Market
I came across a conspiracy theory regarding illegal immigration: the gov’t is turning a blind eye to illegal immigrants because there are not enough Gen Xers and Gen Yers to buy up the houses of the Baby Boomers when they retire or keel over. Once you get into this country, you can basically stay unless you get caught doing something else. Illegal immigrants will in theory add to the homebuying population and prop up prices so Baby Boomers can cash out and retire.
pret (3)-
NAR stats: bogus, yet useful. How can they be truly useful if the results are cooked, watered-down, or both? Please put down the pipe and get yourself into rehab.
What a waste it is to lose one’s mind:
“Yes, I’m aware of the limitations stemming from the NAR’s methodology. It is a raw median price number, so doesn’t adjust for mix shift or seasonality.
Still, it is a useful resource for people who like to track trends in New Jersey home prices and sales volumes.”
bi Says:
February 14th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
20#, mr. penn, thank you for the link. the price is crashing upward in NNJ.
From the same article:
“But the slight increase is not an indication the housing market is turning around,
said economist James Hughes, dean of the Edward J. Bloustein School of Planning and Public Policy at Rutgers University.
“The market was virtually flat,” said Hughes said. “It suggests that the market is
far from rebounding and it may signal that there is weakness ahead.”
36
I’ve read that before, not as a conspiracy theory, but that immigrants, both documented and undocumented, are buffering the housing market. I recall reading it specifically about NJ, in particular areas.
32
I agree too.
28
“I personally think we are reaching the edge of affordability when it comes to college, and if easy credit is cut off for middle class people, a lot of colleges are going to be in trouble.”
We need to start supporting our state colleges and universities. Rutgers is 26,000 a year now. 26,000. Unreal.
Ready (11)-
Rents are down, as all the people who can’t sell turn to renting out as a stopgap solution.
Nationally, owner’s equivalent rent is an overweight component of CPI. That number has been dropping for months. The fact that the Fed overweights its significance helps them keep their (cooked) inflation number tamped-down.
Amazing how many times a day I say “tamped down” now…
Ann (41)-
Support Rutgers with what? Red pom-poms?
At 26K a pop, that’s the most I’ll be doing:
“We need to start supporting our state colleges and universities. Rutgers is 26,000 a year now. 26,000. Unreal.”
University of Colorado in Boulder is 6000/year for in-state tuition. Mkae your kids move to colorado, live there for a year and go to school.
Nobody is forced to stay in NJ/East Coast. (well that is untill NJ legislators will introduce leaving NJ under 55 years old Fee: 200K one time charge for moving out.).
By the time the dining club opens in Rutgers’ stadium, a hamburger will be $26,000.
I look forward to that.
BusinessWeek Coverpage Article,
Housing Meltdown
Why home prices could drop 25% more on average before the market finally hits bottom
Pretty long article. Good Read though.
John your sister-in-law paid that much money to have a better life for her daughter, not to lose her forever. If she wanted her to stay around the area, she should have told her Columbia only.
Or Princeton.
Clot,
any idea on how much UNC costs these days? thanks.
The point of a state school is that the people of that state can afford to go there.
Talk about debtor’s prison. And these kids don’t even know what they are signing up for when they sign all those loan notes.
Under AMT you cannot deduct the interest on a HELOC for college related expenses.
Red – #49,
http://studentaid.unc.edu/studentaid/cost/ssa_ug_general.html
It’s a great place to go to school. I am also a graduate and doing my best to get back there now as an adult.
Rachel
43
For sure, if you’re paying 26,000, that’s all they are getting. I’m saying, as a state, we need to find ways to keep our state schools affordable.
I’ve paid plenty of money to RU myself. It was a good deal when I was there though. I think it was 8K or something like that.
Here’s where I start talking all crazy lib, but I don’t think kids should come out of their state schools drowning in debt.
Clotpoll,
I never wrote that NAR stats are “bogus”. They aren’t.
Like any data set, the NAR stats have limitations. I simply acknowledged that I’m aware of them. The NAR’s New Jersey data is pretty good indicator of what is happening to New Jersey home prices.
What is the best source, in your opinion, for tracking New Jersey home prices?
Grim please strike Al’s post #44 from the record our state government doesn’t need any more “good” ideas on taxing us. Yes student loans are debtor’s prison. I’m 35 and finally done with them this year. Basically locks you into working and paying them off. Leaving you the inability to pursue any entrepreneurial avenues because your debt load is so high.
Stockton was also a great deal at 7000 a year tuition room and board in the mid 1990s. Personally I’m recommending any one that will listen to send their rugrats to community college first for two years. I did it and was no worse for wear the cost was so much lower that it enabled me to go away to school my final two years. Graduate school on the other hand nearly crippled me with debt.
Still, it is a useful resource for people who like to track trends in New Jersey home prices and sales volumes.
The NAR index speaks more to the mix of homes sold rather than the direction of home prices. In order for the NAR index to show falling prices, transactions must take place that get included in the index calculation.
First time buyers have either been priced out, can’t get financing or are just choosing to sit back and watch prices drop. As a result, lower priced houses aren’t trading. You can build a new McMansion between the bid/ask spread on starter homes right now. As a result, total home sales are biased away from low end.
so i am apparently to analytical so enjoy my new style :)…
Ann #53
Free state college for anyone with a minimum level of academic performance
Nope, she threw an anchor around her neck. She has a young mom who would have watched her kids. That plus with Ivy league engineering degree she is sure to work with geeks as her future suitors and as a career women I doubt her future husband will let her stay home. That plus she now lives in the middle of nowhere and her kids will never know their aunts, uncles and cousins, I hope it works out for her.
I liked my state school, we had a coke dealer, pot dealer, a guy who had a friend in pre-med that sold ludes all on my hallway, that plus co-ed bathrooms and they never took attendence in class. The school nurse even did abortions without parental consent. However, you have to put a gun to my head to send a daughter to a place like that.
lostinny Says:
February 14th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
John your sister-in-law paid that much money to have a better life for her daughter, not to lose her forever. If she wanted her to stay around the area, she should have told her Columbia only.
“We need to start supporting our state colleges and universities.”
I don’t see it happening. Budgetary constraints are only getting worse and university funding is very easy to cut. Most people still don’t go to college and don’t care. The only way they’d notice is if the football or basketball team disappeared. Plus, universities in general do a pretty awful job of demonstrating that they can use additional funds wisely.
Hahaha, things must be really getting bad.
I am off today, went to hardware store on Washington St in Hoboken to by a furnace filter. At the counter where they have the usual knick knacks (ie. novelty lighters and keychains) they have a shitload of St Joseph’s statues.
#49 Red
“Clot,
any idea on how much UNC costs these days? thanks.”
Is that the cost before of after the point spread
Al Says:
February 14th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Nobody is forced to stay in NJ/East Coast.
________________________________________________
Are you sure about that? From many of the posts here, I get the impression that a number of people are being held in Bergen County/”the Gold Coast” at gunpoint by lazy, overpaid government workers, who insist on bankrupting the state by taking Lincoln’s birthday as a paid holiday . . .
From The Record:
N.J. may reward developers for being green
The Green Building Tax Credit Act, a seven-year program that would provide an incentive package of tax credits to companies that build environmentally sensitive buildings, was recently introduced to the state Senate and Assembly.
…
In the first fiscal year of the program, up to $20 million in tax credits may be awarded to builders who apply and meet the act’s standards. In the subsequent years of the program, up to $50 million each year may be allocated.
BTW plenty of colleges are free. St. John’s in Queens moved way up in the college ratings by having a program where anyone with over a 90 average and a certain SAT score gets free tuition. It way brought up their scores. Of course snot nosed spoiled brats like my neiece will say if I did all that studying why should I just go to SJU when I could go to NYU for 40K as 90 averages there are a dime a dozen so no free ride.
ALso Rutgers is NOWHERE close to 26K, that is just full tuition. If you look at the aveage tuition paid is it way less. Someone one showed me the average SJU student paid 3K, tons of people get financial aid and other scholerships.
Sorry, it’s 20K. There are not so many grants anymore. Pell grants, TAGs, good luck getting one of those. And I don’t count loans as financial aid.
60 skep-tic
I don’t see it happening either. As long as there are loans, everyone will shut up.
Re: Housing Indicies
You want to show housing prices are up, no problem, I’ve got an index for it.
Want to show housing prices are flat? No problem, got one for that too.
Think home prices are down and want to prove your point? Yes, you got it right, we’ve got an index for that too.
A man with two watches never knows what time it is. Three watches?
I’ll wager you a St Joseph’s statue that they are down.
59
Eh. You can try to keep your kids around, but you can’t stop them. Why do you doubt her future husband will “let her stay home”? Who knows what she will do.
And what’s wrong with marrying a smart geeky guy? Smart and geeky starts to look hot after you date a million jerks. A girl could do than a smart geek, as long as he is kind, like a dumb gambler.
I’ll wager you a St Joseph’s statue that they are down.
Sucker bet, even if I believed in idolatry.
Has anybody dealt with RentalStoreUsa? Supposedly, they charge only a $150 fee for finding you a place.
56
I like the community college idea in theory, but I had so much fun away those four years, I would try my hardest to make sure my kids have that experience. Commuting just isn’t the same, although it is financially wise.
Grad school debt SUCKS. I kind of feel like college is a minimum these days, so I feel like it should be affordable, but grad school is a choice.
Come on now Grim, it’s nice, about 4 inches high, plastic, comes with a prayer book and burying instructions!
Hey look, it’s the Sallie May “Scholarship Fund.” Yeah right.
http://www.thesalliemaefund.org/smfnew/index.html
pret (54)-
“The NAR’s New Jersey data is pretty good indicator of what is happening to New Jersey home prices.
What is the best source, in your opinion, for tracking New Jersey home prices?”
You didn’t call NAR’s stats bogus; I did.
I’m not a quant, especially with RE stats. I’m knee deep in this glop, so I don’t need statistics to tell me what I see every day with my own eyes. I’m not looking for anything to confirm OR deny notions I may have about “the market”; my concern is in getting the homes I represent sold.
What’s the best source for tracking NJ house prices? Probably the one that doesn’t come from a source that puts its own interests ahead of the truth. Ergo, NAR’s stats are disqualified.
New York Times to cut 100 jobs from newsroom: report
I should have kept the youdovoodoo.com domain.
Could have used it to sell a voodoo home selling kit, complete with Realtor doll and pins. (really, no offense.)
red (49)-
UNC tuition/fees for ’08:
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/usnews/edu/college/directory/brief/drglance_2974_brief.php
Good luck getting in as an out-of-stater.
As I said – If somebody is going to school to state university – they should move into the state, work for a year – experience + they will save themselves tons of money!!!
Forgive my ignorance but does NJ have a city college system the way NYC has CUNY? CUNY schools are always cheaper then SUNY (State) schools. Most aren’t as good as SUNY but some are fantastic and great money savers if grad school is in the future. I couldn’t imagine paying for college and grad school. Just the loans from grad school are enough to choke a person.
I really had high hopes for youdovoodoo.com
We were going to sell all manner of “voodoo” kits. Ex-Boyfriend/Husband, Ex-Girlfriend/Wife, Boss, etc. You would get a little voodoo kit, a doll, pins, etc. Customers would have the option to send them as a gift, etc.
Kind of like the teddybear companies, only more a bit more morbid and off-color.
We were even going to do a build-a-bear style doll, where you could create a doll that resembled the intended victim.
We even had a toy manufacturer all lined up.
I’m sorry. I should have said that I couldn’t imagine paying for expensive private college and then expensive private grad school.
Grim that would do nothing but bring bad ju ju on you. Better off that you didn’t persue it.
generally, what qualifies a student as an “in-stater”? how long should you have resided in the state?
Cuny Baruch is 4K a year, the best deal in the entire world is the Accounting degree. Period. You need 150 credits to sit for the CPA so Baruch has a five year progam where you get your joint undergraduate in Accounting and a MBA in Finance, and they make you sit for the CIA – Certified Internal Auditor Exam and CPA Certified Public Accountant Exam as part of program. Even better Morgan and Merril do the interns out of there where they work full time in the summer and can work duing winter break and they pay them around 9k a year. So the kid actually can cover tuition and then some. Upon graduation the kids can either use there CPA for big four, CIA for internal audit in Merril, Morgan etc or their MBA at one of the BDs they interned at. The kids are great, I deal with them all the time, good lunch box toting local kids not afraid to do a days work, beats the heck out of the bong snorting ivy league brats who you can’t get a lick of work out of.
The whole cost is 20K tuiton, and the internships will make you close to 50K. If you agree to do an accounting related career in the big four or wall street you get spotted 10K so the whole cost is 10K tuition.
Kids don’t want to work. The progam begs for kids to do it.
Good ju ju selling it, I made $1,000.
John
That program is incredibly competitive. Hats off to those that get in and stick with it.
Moody’s cuts FGIC rating to A3 from Aaa
any bets on how low our dear Mr bergabe will go with the rate cuts
Grim, good. Let it be someone else’s headache.
From Bloomberg:
GMAC May Face `Substantial Difficulty,’ Cerberus Capital Says
GMAC LLC, the auto and mortgage lender controlled by Cerberus Capital Management LP, may run into “substantial difficulty” if credit markets don’t improve, said Stephen Feinberg, founder of the private-equity firm.
“We have detailed contingency plans in a continuing worsening environment,” Feinberg wrote in a Jan. 22 letter to investors, a copy of which was obtained by Bloomberg News. “However, if the credit markets continue to decline and we find ourselves in a prolonged environment of capital market shutdown, GMAC could run into substantial difficulty.”
GMAC, the former financing arm of General Motors Corp., lost $2.3 billion last year as record U.S. home foreclosures led to an increase in bad loans and auto-lending profit declined, the Detroit-based company said Feb. 7. GMAC is in talks with potential buyers about parts of its Residential Capital mortgage unit, which posted a $4.3 billion loss.
I wonder if I’m the bong snorting type or Ivy League brat since I’ve gone to both. I think I’ll say CUNY. Or does that depend where you spent more money? Or the higher the degree?
Oh dude nevermind. I am so not awake today.
I believe most of the states consider you in-state resident after 1 years of state residency.
How do you prove in-state residency – I am not sure. One way will be to pay this state taxes.
Grim 68,
I agree. Key for using economic statistics is to know how they’re calculated so that you know the limitations. The mainstream media is horrible at providing the context behind the stats they cite.
However, people who bash the statistics used by others should produce an alternative index. Otherwise, these bashers appear to be in denial as they’ve failed to provide a basis to support their positions.
I believe the best methods to measure trends in NJ home prices is to observe the OFHEO and NAR state-level data. If you know of a better way to do this, then please let me know.
By the way, I linked my 2008 forecast to these indices.
“pretorius Says:
January 8th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Here is my 2008 forecast for New Jersey home prices. The numbers are 4th quarter 2008 numbers for New Jersey.
OFHEO – 575
NAR median price of existing single family homes – $355,000”
njbear FGIC will be calling Warren Buffet any day now.
Eric R. Dinallo will be testifying today. He will proposes splitting up the monolines into two types of companies. One that contains the Municipal Bonds policies and one with all of the junk.
Here is a copy of what he will say.
http://www.ins.state.ny.us/speeches/pdf/sp080214.pdf
Quote:
We have been actively discussing all of the options with the bond insurers and, if
necessary, we will consider allowing the bond insurers to split themselves into two
companies. One would have the municipal bond policies and any other healthy parts of
the business. And there is no reason to believe that this cannot be a healthy business. The
other would have the structured finance and problem parts of the business.
We would ensure that the funds paid by municipal governments would go to support their
insurance, and not pay for the problems in structured finance. We believe that this plan
could produce enough capital to preserve the ratings of and provide protection for the
municipal bonds.
Clot 76,
I track home sales in my town. In 2007 and 2008, there have been are 26 home sales in which the same home was previously sold in 2004 or later.
This is a matched sample so it eliminates the mix-shift issue embedded in the NAR data.
26 out of 26 have been positive comps. So even though home prices are falling in some parts of New Jersey, other parts of New Jersey are still holding up.
RE: supporting our state schools to keep them affordable, so kids don’t come out with debt.
If we don’t subsidize education, the kid takes out loans and pays the cost of his education in later years. If we subsidize it, he gets his education cheaply up front and then pays taxes for others’ education for the rest of his life. Is that really much better?
The key isn’t public vs. private funding– it’s that the cost of education has gone up. It’s similar to the health care issue in that way. I suspect that the increased tuitions are due to a prestige arms race– presidents are tasked with increasing their US News college ranking, and that takes money spent on new libraries, dorms, student centers, “free” laptops, etc. But for all the increased money poured into colleges recently, I doubt that the education has improved much. 90% of learning happens in the classroom between student and professor, or with a kid sitting down and reading a textbook. Shiny new buildings are not going to improve that much.
I did hear the credit crisis is now starting to hit student loans. This is good news as far as tuition costs are concerned. If kids can’t get the loans, colleges must capitulate. Furthermore, a newly debt averse public will cause pressure on colleges to drop/flatten their prices. It’s about time.
Been in San Juan (puerto rico) for the past few days on Condado beach.. Lots of construction going on…
Some of the off-beach properties (condo units) are starting at $1.3mil which is pretty ridiculous…
I’ll stick with using my hotel points for free stays.
-Richie
Best deal is this……
Ivy League with SUNY tuiton …. see center column
http://finaid.cornell.edu/Shared/Costs.htm
Chifi,
You are right on re Cornell. The one thing to remember is that at the time I applied (early 90’s) it was harder to get into the New York State part of Cornell and I did get shut out because of it (versus applying to the full tuition part of Cornell). Best thing to ever happen to me though.
Lookie here….a yield curve
3-Month 2.24
2-Year 2.125
5-Year 2.875
10-Year 3.500
30-Year 4.375
waters 99
I have seen the results of the prestige game first hand. When i was at rutgers, the math department was notorious for having professors and TA’s that couldn’t even speak english well enough to talk about the weather much less teach advanced calculus to people who were seeing it for the first time. This was due to the university hiring lots of big name mathematicians from around the world, without regard for their ability to teach or actually communicate with students. AL the school cared about was the name and that they put out research. I spoke to the dean of engineering recently and he says that it is still a problem.
Richie (101),
Did you drive while you were there?
Kind of nerve racking as it seems only 3 out of 5 have working brake lights.
When i was at rutgers, the math department was notorious for having professors and TA’s that couldn’t even speak English
On my first day of Chemistry 101 at Rutgers (a tough class by the way), the professor preemptively scolded the students; warning us not to complain we couldn’t understand our non-English speaking TA’s because that would be racist.
For some reason, the rights of a “paying customer” seem to go out the window when dealing with higher education.
Nope, no driving. My wife and I park our asses by the beach & the pool. There are shops & restaurants within walking distance (marriott on condado beach) so no need to drive anywhere..
It’s the first time my wife and I got to get away (without the little one) in 2 years, so we’re soaking up the relaxation time..
-Richie
ChiFi
Your advice on my burrito was good. You are one smart cookie.
On my first day of Chemistry 101 at Rutgers (a tough class by the way), the professor preemptively scolded the students; warning us not to complain we couldn’t understand our non-English speaking TA’s because that would be racist.
LOL it is because 78% of graduate students in chemistry are foreign, and all your complaining would be useless anyways.
Rutgers Graduate program in chemistry is very low ranked, and only foreign students will join/or americans who can not get anywhere else – but Americans rather get their MBA’s and make real monmey.
You gotta love the stock market – one day it’s 180 points up, next – 150 points down….
I think Congress should make it a law that stocks can only go up, and every time a stock goes down, goverment buy’s it at previous high.
111 AL
isnt that part of hillary’s plan??? or is that Bergabe and paulsons next ploy
LOL it is because 78% of graduate students in chemistry are foreign
True…but before you can get the MBA, you need the BS, which means you need to pass Chemistry 101. I do miss College, I do not miss the Science or Math classes (outside of statistics, because you tended to see more business focused students)
kettle and other re TAs at RU
Looking back, I can’t believe that I thought it was ok not to understand a WORD that the TAs were saying. Math and chem were the worst. At least the chem profs spoke English (too bad they were mostly a-holes), but the actual Math professors were just as bad as the TAs. We just ended up teaching ourselves out of the books and we still did fine.
I do have a theory that if you can make it through RU, you’ve learned some quality life skills that you won’t learn anywhere else.
Can I get an “opinion” on Fidelity’s Growth Company fund for a 401k?
Danke!
John is making sense today…somebody must have swapped IDs with him.
Market run-up yesterday was a surprise….I sold my positions…market falls today…my stock up 75 cents…damn. You can never time it just right.
#69 grim
A man with two watches never knows what time it is. Three watches?
3 watches = triangulation.
Tom Keene had a nice bit on his program last night with Robert Eisenbeis & his work on how consensus forecasts are always better than any one individual forecast.
As soon as you discard scientific rigor, you’re no longer a mathematician, you’re a numerologist.
re:114
We have to figure out a way to get US (english speaking) kids interested in math and chemistry so that the TAs are understandable.
119 afe
US students will never go back to pursuing advanced science degrees (not sure about math, not my field). It makes little financial sense to pursue one.
My son started at Trenton State in Electrical Engineering and graduated from Seton Hall in Finance. Primary reason, he couldn’t understand the Science Teachers at Trenton State. Although he makes more money working Wall Street and the Big Banks, it’s indicative of a Nation in Decline. America still has enemies, and a nation of Lawyers & CPA’s will not prevail. We can’t litigate or account our way out of it.
On my way to fight the restaurant crowd.
Happy Valentine’s Day to all
http://tinyurl.com/ypygfy
KL
That… that doesn’t rhyme…
Happy V-Day to you too
Ann Says:
February 14th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
kettle and other re TAs at RU Looking back, I can’t believe that I thought it was ok not to understand a WORD that the TAs were saying.
Ann: My Econ 101 TA had a heavy accent. I’ll do my best to phonetically write….
He said things such as the “PER-centage” in the “in-DSUT-ry”. He also kept referring to the “SLOP” of the demand and supply curves. He would also fail to unitize the goods he was discussing, so he would talk about the tradeoffs of “one million wheat VEHR-sus one million wine”. He would finish each diatribe with “…is that reasonably clear..” He also pronounced the unit of measure of utility (known as a “util”) as an “OOOO-tile.
lostinny Says:
February 14th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
Can I get an “opinion” on Fidelity’s Growth Company fund for a 401k?
Danke!
lost: Possibly the most consistently strong of Fidelity’s no-load funds. Even better than Contrafund. It hits Fidelity right on the sweet spot…..domestic large-cap company stocks….the other issue is that it is closed, so if you can access it through your 401(k), it is a unique opportunity.
Just remember….the market return dominates all investments in this area, so regardless of the quality of this fund…..it lost over 9% in January, lost 14.5% in the last 3 months, and even though it generally thrashes the S&P 500 index, it has been tatooed on a relative basis since about mid-November.
Please note: these comments are not an offer to buy or sell securities; please perform your own research; do not rely on any of these comments to commit money; if you follow this advice you are cleary someone who would fail to score at least 200 on their SATs.
Ann [120]
As a PHD chemist myself,I tend to agree, but I don’t believe it’s totally the financial incentives, another contributing factor is that US students nowadays are not on average academically mature enough at college age to dedicate themselves to a demanding physical science curriculum.
Most PHD programs really don’t care about attracting more people, they want the die-hards, those who really love the scientific process and are dedicated to work 80 hours a week in research no matter how bad it pays. If you are chasing a PHD in a physical science for monetary reasons, you will never be able to survive the demanding slog and isolation of the doctoral process. This is why it’s appealing to immigrants, science is essentially seen as a way out of hardship. This and the fact that physical science PHD programs are usually free (either paid by research grants or teaching).
However, if you can handle it academically, I believe there is no better foundation for a professional career than physical sciences. Doesn’t mean you have to be stuck in a lab, but having a grasp of the fundamental laws of nature and quality reasoning and analytical skills can be applied effectively in any field. I left the lab immediately after grad school and moved into business development, which can be quite lucrative in Pharma/biotech. It’s not uncommon for people to make >150,000 base + 20-30% bonus, which of course you will never get in typical a R&D role. Most of my colleagues in sales and marketing have technical degrees (many PHD’s). It is quite easy for a scientifically trained individual to quickly pick up business fundamentals, econ, finance, or even law. However, the reverse is not so easy. I can’t bring in an MBA and expect to him to understand organic synthesis, thermodynamics, or basic molecular biology. And if you don’t understand it fundamentally, it’s tough to sell technology-based products and services.
124
My fav memories:
An Indian lecturer teaching organic chem, all semester long, hydrogen= “hiDROgen”
Russian math TA…”what you mean SOLVE the derivative, you cannot SOLVE the derivative”
I guess he had a point on that one..
I also enjoyed the Chinese organic chem lab TA who would wash glassware in methylene chloride, along with her HANDS. She won a TA award.
Stu Says:
February 14th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
ChiFi Your advice on my burrito was good. You are one smart cookie.
S-Man: Not really sure I understand. I guess even though you were sitting, I did notice that you had a nice burrito, and the Brokeback dialogue on the cell phone gave me idea……I didn’t know the GTG could be like this…..
126 JBJB
I think it’s totally money. And totally rational. Americans aren’t dumb, they can be scientists. What 22 year old would sign up for years of indentured servitude when they could be an accountant and have a life by the time they are 30?
“If you are chasing a PHD in a physical science for monetary reasons, you will never be able to survive”
Exactly. It’s a priesthood.
To your last paragraph, most people who can get a Ph.D in physical science can be successful in many fields, I’m not sure which came first on that one.
JBJB Says:
February 14th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
Ann [120] It is quite easy for a scientifically trained individual to quickly pick up business fundamentals, econ, finance, or even law. However, the reverse is not so easy. I can’t bring in an MBA and expect to him to understand organic synthesis, thermodynamics, or basic molecular biology. And if you don’t understand it fundamentally, it’s tough to sell technology-based products and services.
JBJB: I’d say a good 30-35% of my MBA class at Chicago had an engineering background, and for them, the anlytics were a cake-walk (believe me – no small trick). A number of Cornell Engineering Undergrads went right into banking, assuming them had the interpersonal chops.
Honestly, I would dissuade a young person from studing engineering if they are interested. It makes you a f—ing ball$ to the walls banker on the analytical scale.
One of my Cornell roommates was a Mechie, and he ended up getting offers from a number of banks, because he was fluent in Russian. He even got an offer from Morgan Stanley despite the fact that he had some kind of mental lapse that kept making him think of the football player and would say “Stanley Morgan”. They must have found it endearing…..
Honestly, I would NOT dissuade a young person from studing engineering if they are interested.
Chifi,
I was referring to CMG. We discussed it at the GTG. I’m glad you noticed my burrito, but as of now it doesn’t swing that way.
I got this listing in my email tonight and here is the description attached:
MAJOR PRICE REDUCTION SALE EVENT ONE WEEK ONLY FEB 14-20 ORIG LP $899,900 EVENT PRICE $799,900. NOW IS THE TIME TO BRING YOUR BUYERS. PRICES GO BACK UP FEB. 21.
How’s that for brass b*lls? A f*cking threat. You’re gonna RAISE the price? Good luck sitting in your sh*t hole until you rot. The f*cking nerve…
http://www.realtor.com/realestate/north+caldwell+boro-nj-07006-1086846518/
“What 22 year old would sign up for years of indentured servitude when they could be an accountant and have a life by the time they are 30?”
I am not sure there is much difference between indentured servitude and and being a ho-hum, run of the mill accountant at Dunder Mifflin.
If this is the decision process students are following, I think it proves a serious lack of academic maturity. You don’t go to college to make 50 grand by age 30, you go to college to begin to learn how to think and solve problems. If you can do the latter effectively, you will likely be successful in whatever field you ultimately choose.
134 JBJB
I’ve done the advanced sci degree route, hoping and praying my kids don’t do the same thing. I did alright in the end, my husband is doing very well, in spite of his degree.
: ) But hey, to each their own.
I put advanced science in the same category as the study of art, music, etc. If you must do it, if there is no other way to be happy, if it is your calling, yes, then do it, and I will support you. But this lie that they’ve been spurning out telling middle-class kids that we need more scientists and it’s a great career is just that, a lie.
133 gary
It goes back up 100K on Feb 21, sure it does.
Do keep us posted on that one, if it really went back up!
I remember one like that, they dropped it from 699 to 669 but only until Thanksgiving.
What do dont see cant hurt you. The Bush administration will shut down this website effective March 1, due to “budgetary constraints”. This after a 3 trillion budget.
Why do congressmen have the b**ls to grill a washed up baseball player, but not question this government?
http://www.economicindicators.gov/
What you dont see cant hurt you. The Bush administration will shut down this website effective March 1, due to “budgetary constraints”. This after a 3 trillion budget.
Why do congressmen have the b**ls to grill a washed up baseball player, but not question this government?
http://www.economicindicators.gov/
re 129
‘when they could be an accountant and have a life by the time they are 30? ‘
They must not be working in the bowels companies like Stanley Morgan.
But this lie that they’ve been spurning out telling middle-class kids that we need more scientists and it’s a great career is just that, a lie.
Ann,
Having spent “n too many” years in grad school I hear your pain! But seriously what kind of jobs will all of these business graduates get? You really do need technology of all kinds to sell something of value. Without a base of highly skilled technologists, what exactly will business units be selling? What will happen to good ole’ American R & D?
“Why do congressmen have the b**ls to grill a washed up baseball player, but not question this government?”
Because you don’t s@it where you eat.
grim (83)-
I think splooge.com was a keeper for you.
Just think: right now, you could be the p^rn impresario of the internet.
Gary #133
hahaha – go ahead, raise the price if it doesn’t sell at the lower price, see where that gets you!
This isn’t a toaster (or a plasma TV!), these realtors are just plain clueless about the concept of supply and demand, or borrowing to buy a depreciating (for now) asset…..
Ann – I studied engineering, and always liked the math/science/problem solving aspect of the profession. But when I found out that I could make 5-10x as much in finance, I sold out and did the MBA thing. Hard sciences are a great foundation, but can sometimes been seen to be a means to the end.
Last weekend we went to see an open house, which was listed just a few days earlier. It was priced about 6% below assessment (most other houses are priced around assessment). Today, when we inquired about its status, to our surprise we were told that there were 2 bidders by Monday and the offer accepted is 6% above asking! I don’t know what this suggests except that when a house is priced competitively, it does attract a lot of attention and in a bidding war some people can loose their head…
red (86)-
Some states have residency requirements for state universities that make you jump thru flaming hoops to qualify.
UNC also has its own little Stasi to examine every detail of your life, to boot. I was a legit resident for tax purposes, yet paid out-of-state tuition until my last day there.
pret (99)-
This might be the year some same-home sale comps go negative in your town.
Not a question of if…it’s a question of when. We’re off a cliff, legs spinning now.
133
Gary, that’s a laugh riot!!!
Ann (114)-
I’m pretty sure I had the inventor of Ecstasy/MDA as a chem assistant at UNC. Guy used to bring a fairway wood to class and work on his swing. He knew more about NC biker gangs than he did about chem.
Taught myself that crap straight from the book and was damn glad I took chemistry in HS. I thought garbage like this was par for the course in college.
125 Thanks ChiFi!
I’m glad we went to dinner early. It’s mobbed everywhere.
If this one doesn’t skew the median price for February…
Alpine
ACT 34 TIMBERLINE DR $13,500,000 9/17/2006
PCH 34 TIMBERLINE DR $11,800,000 3/6/2007 EXT 34 TIMBERLINE DR $11,800,000 9/12/2007
EXT 34 TIMBERLINE DR $11,800,000 12/14/2007
ACT* 34 TIMBERLINE DR $11,800,000 1/23/2008
EXT 34 TIMBERLINE DR $11,800,000 1/28/2008
U/C 34 TIMBERLINE DR $11,800,000 2/1/2008 SLD 34 TIMBERLINE DR $11,800,000 2/13/2008
Taxes?
A mere $35,000
$2,916.66 a month
Alpine has one of THE lowest tax rates in BC
Paid in CASH
My fav memories:
An Indian lecturer teaching organic chem, all semester long, hydrogen= “hiDROgen”
I had a biology TA you used to say, “Now you dissect fatal peg”
S-Man: I’d rather see the price at 10:30AM. That said, if the mo-mo guys are gone, ya’ got to kick it to the curb.
After Hours: 94.26 -14.39 (13.24%)
as of 7:59PM ET on 02/14/08
#128: scrubbing and I mean really scrubbing my corneas with bleach over that one.
my worst translation exasperation:
my internship year in the Bronx – a Philippine nurse calling me from Same Day Surgery telling me the patient had a “fiscal” problem.
Told her I can’t fix that, why are you calling me??
“Please, must fix the “fiscal” problem now!!”
Go there.
Patient is in SDSurgery holding with no PHYSICAL exam on the chart.
Fill out form.
Leave in disgust.
Vow to get out of the Bronx.
sl
next worst?
Date. Me and I guy I’m cooking dinner for.
Me (holding potatoes): Mashed or bake?
Guy (turning crimson): Wha…whaaa…huh?”
Me (getting annoyed): Hello? Mashed or bake??!
Guy: (flustered): Um. ah.. huh???
Me: Hello? POTATOES. Mashed or bake?
Guy (relieved!) Oh, for godsake, I thought you were telling me to DO something…you know….something private.
Me (to myself, of course.) I gotta give up dating for awhile. (shaking head in disgust)
sl
#155 LOL!! God I’m slow. I had to read that twice before I got it, then I carried the laptop into the bathroom to read it to my husband while he was shaving this morning. Thought he’d slit his throat. Then he told me about a math TA he had who talked about “fukshions.”