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From Bloomberg:
U.S. Probably Lost Jobs in April, Unemployment Rate Increased
The U.S. probably lost jobs in April for a fourth month and the unemployment rate rose as economic growth stalled, economists said before a government report today.
Payrolls shrank by 75,000 workers after decreasing by 80,000 in March, according to the median estimate of 82 economists surveyed by Bloomberg News before the Labor Department’s report. The jobless rate rose to a three-year high of 5.2 percent, the survey also showed.
The economy is on the brink of a recession as soaring fuel prices and the collapse in housing cause consumers and businesses to retrench. Americans may continue to rein in spending as wages stagnate, property values fall and credit remains scarce, indicating hiring will continue to slump.
“Businesses are getting very cautious,” Michael Gregory, a senior economist at BMO Capital Markets in Toronto, said before the report. “They’re going to wait to see consumers start coming back before you start to see hiring again. We’re in a little bit of a vicious circle.”
The report is due at 8:30 a.m. in Washington. Payroll estimates in the Bloomberg survey ranged from declines of 150,000 to 18,000. A fourth consecutive drop would be the longest string of decreases since the start of the Iraq War in 2003.
Forecasts for the unemployment rate ranged from 5 percent to 5.3 percent, according to the Bloomberg survey.
From the WSJ:
Home Run: Canseco Lets
House Go Into Foreclosure
By JONATHAN KARP
May 2, 2008; Page B2
Former baseball star Jose Canseco has drawn perhaps the most unusual walk of his colorful and infamous career: Faced with sinking property prices and heavy legal fines, he has abandoned a multimillion-dollar home in suburban Los Angeles and let it lapse into foreclosure.
Mr. Canseco, a one-time American League most valuable player who ignited controversy by later admitting he used steroids and accusing fellow players of doing the same, becomes perhaps one of the highest-profile homeowners to walk away from a mortgage.
“He made a mathematical decision and just let it go,” said Gregory Emerson, Mr. Canseco’s lawyer.
Mr. Canseco bought the 7,300-square-foot home in Encino, Calif., for nearly $2.8 million in 2005, according to public records. He transferred partial ownership to a trust last year, according to Mr. Emerson. That trust defaulted on mortgage payments in October, and foreclosure was recorded in February, public records show.
The house already had at least one lien placed on it, from the Internal Revenue Service, and a judgment stemming from a 2005 court ruling in which Mr. Canseco and his brother Ozzie were found liable for a 2001 brawl in a Miami Beach nightclub. Together, the liens and judgment totaled some $1.3 million, according to Mr. Emerson and Tina Cameron, Mr. Canseco’s real-estate agent.
“Given that there were liens on the house and the market had gone down, he made the decision to let it go,” Mr. Emerson said. He said that the decline in property values alone meant that Mr. Canseco’s equity in the house had fallen by about $1 million.
From the Syracuse Post Standard:
Forecast for New York’s economy: Gloom vs. doom
If you think the New York economy is bad now, just wait.
It’s expected to get worse.
The state’s top economist on Thursday predicted that in the next month, New York will enter a recession that’s expected to last through early next year.
Even worse, the state’s economy will likely continue to hurt long after the national economy rebounds.
“New York tends to be hit harder when the nation goes into a recession,” state Budget Director Laura Anglin said. “New York recessions usually last twice as long and have deeper job losses.”
The exact reason is unknown, but history has shown it again and again, budget spokesman Jeffrey Gordon said.
“We’re concerned the worst has yet to come,” Anglin added.
The state hasn’t hit rock bottom yet. In fact, New York’s current fiscal picture looks relatively good compared with the rest of the country.
Up until now, a strong New York City real estate market has kept the state’s economy from crashing as hard or as fast as other states’.
“The main reason why we’re not in a recession is the real estate market in New York City,” Anglin said. “That has been keeping us afloat.”
From Bloomberg:
Bank of America May Not Guarantee Countrywide’s Debt
Bank of America Corp., the second- biggest U.S. bank, said it may not guarantee $38.1 billion of Countrywide Financial Corp.’s debt after taking over the mortgage lender, fueling speculation that Countrywide’s bondholders face renewed risk of default.
“There is no assurance that any such debt would be redeemed, assumed or guaranteed,” the Charlotte, North Carolina-based bank said in an April 30 regulatory filing, adding that no decision has been reached. Investors have grown more optimistic the bank would back Countrywide debt, and Standard & Poor’s said this week it may raise Countrywide’s rating to match Bank of America’s.
Question for the board
I purchased my 2br/1ba condo in Montclair in Nov 04 with a 80/20 loan. Its appreciated about $45k since then. Now I want to consolidate the two loans into one.
Question 1: I have a lil over 26 yrs left on the loan. If I refi into a 30 yr, I can REDUCE my monthly payment (all in….taxes, etc) by about $190. If I refi into a 20 yr, my monthly payment will INCREASE by $40. I was leaning towards the 30 yr because I can save the extra cash for a downpayment for another property (09/10).
Which option would you do considering it will be an investment property within a year for me?
Question 2: As mentioned before, I plan on making this an investment property in the near future. Should I indicate when I refi that its my primary residence (which it is) or should I say it an investment property and incur slightly higher rates? The only reason I ask is that I plan on titling the property in a LLC and wondering about the timing of doing so. Meaning should I do the refi and titling into a LLC at the same time (during the refi) or do them separately?
I’ve noticed a few houses driving around lately that had for sale signs in the yard but I could not find them listed in the MLS. Does this mean that they’re under contract? Or do realtors have a financial incentive to try and sell houses themselves before they list them on the MLS?
Joey,
The latter, if a house is under contract you better believe the agent who sold it is going to flaunt that fact, especially in this market.
Some agencies keep the best listings for themselves in the form of an office exclusive. There is no law or regulation that forces brokers to cooperate through the MLS. If they can’t move it in-house, they’ll move it to the MLS. The incentive is obvious, keeping both sides of the commission in-house. There are other reasons for this, mainly centered around privacy.
I was quite busy yesterday and was unable to respond to this nonsense. I wanted to take a moment and do so today.
You sound very resentful against your neighbor. It’s almost as if you want to see them imperiled. So what if they got a Mercedes. Were they supposed to get your damn permission before buying one? Look, these people are working hard, so they deserve something in the way of a reward.
The problem here is that you want to dictate what people should do with their money. You’re probably some ridiculous cheapskate like 3bonehead.
Let me tell you something, you’re in no position to dictate how people spend their money. These people have done more than you done to stimulate the economy.
John Says:
May 1st, 2008 at 8:56 am
Don’t worry the housing bulls don’t need money, my neighbor who bought in June 2006 at the peak of the market who he and his wife work six days a week to pay the mortgage just ran out and leased a 2008 benzy, those people love debt up to the eyeballs, they don’t need checks to keep spending. Like a crackhead they will beg borrow or steal to fund the habit. Giving them the cash would just take the fun out of it.
Future,
Question 1: Nothing is stopping you from prepaying the 30y, so it boils down to cost and spread. Are the upfront fixed costs similar? What is the difference in rates? The 30y gives you payment flexibility, however minor, is it worth the cost?
Question 2: If it is your primary residence right now, and you refi, refi as your primary residence. It would be silly not to. Secondly, you are going to be paying a premium under an LLC. Have you even asked? I know a number of builders who tell me that LLC might as well read 666 to the banks. You might want to sit down with a RE attorney to discuss this, prior to acting on the refi. I don’t believe transferring the property into an LLC is a trivial matter, and might be considered a sale in certain circumstances. Likewise, there may be mortgage implications here (due on sale, acceleration, etc).
Thanks Grim.
I often wonder why there’s such a high proportion of listings with delusional asking prices on the MLS. That would explain it.
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/home_top_left_story/20080502_Economy_great_-_for_pawnshops.html
“I worked hard for this watch. I’m middle-class, not poor. I can’t believe I have to do this to buy gas.”
Reinvestor, I’m with you on the toys for tots philosophy.
Since I’m so cheap, the more toys the tots buy, the more I can pick up for free later.
I love pawnshops.
From the AP:
Economists predict employers will cut jobs again
The country is bracing for more bad news on the jobs front. In advance of Friday’s employment snapshot from the Labor Department, economists were predicting that employers cut jobs yet again in April. That would mark the fourth straight month of job losses. The unemployment rate, now at 5.1 percent, is expected to edge up a notch.
Businesses are handing out more and more pink slips as they cope with an economy that is teetering on the edge of a recession, or possibly in one already. A severe housing slump, harder-to-get credit and financial turmoil have forced people and businesses to be more cautious in their spending. And that has hurt the economy.
reinvestor101:
You should stick to Fox news. They are the only fair and balanced news organization.
Since we are all cheapskates, please spend to make up for the rest of us.
More UBS employees on the chopping block…
Not unexpected…
http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/02/ubs-to-announce-job-cuts-report-says/index.html?hp
I’m Jose Canseco! How long until Mr. Canseco takes Mr. Emerson and Tina Cameron to court for lack of fiduciary responsibility? over/under is 8 months
“He said that the decline in property values alone meant that Mr. Canseco’s equity in the house had fallen by about $1 million.”
[2],
Approx 40% drop since 2005 in the San Fernando Valley Region? How can this be? After all, I thought this bust was strictly the result of some subprime mess, isolated in low income regions. No?
If we are in the 9th inning why is the fed increasing its TAF? Announced right before the jobs report?
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — The Federal Reserve along with the European Central Bank and the Swiss National Bank announced a fresh expansion of their liquidity measures. The Federal Reserve announced an increase in the amounts auctioned to eligible depository institutions under its biweekly Term Auction Facility from $50 billion to $75 billion, beginning with the auction on May 5. This increase will bring the amounts outstanding under the TAF to $150 billion. The Federal Open Market Committee also has authorized further increases in its existing temporary reciprocal currency arrangements with the European Central Bank and the Swiss National Bank. These arrangements will now provide dollars in amounts of up to $50 billion and $12 billion to the ECB and the SNB, respectively, representing increases of $20 billion and $6 billion.
test
JB,
Did the fed put me into moderation?
RE 101 When my neighbor and his wife works six days a week 12 hours a day and live a 11 year boy to work home from school by himself to an empty house and make his own dinner evernight while their gutters are hanging off the house and their fence is falling over lease a 2008 Benz I am not resentful cause he is spending money I am resentful that he is letting his house go to pot and that 11 year old will soon be playing with matches and killing cats and dogs if left home long enough and I got to live next door. I also don’t think he even realizes how stupid a 2008 60K Benz looks in a blue collar worker 50 year old splits driveway. You and I will be bailing him out in a few years when the stocks in our 401K dip due to banks taking write offs for bozos like him and when our taxes go up as we have to pay for his nursing home care and medical costs when he is old cause he had not saved a nickle.
#16 cooper,
jose also was bragging about his stock market returns for 1999 in Feb 2000. I wonder how well his portfolio performed since.
Payrolls down 20k, less than expected.
Hey RE investor by the way leasing a GERMAN car that you are most likely going to default on does not stimulate the economy.
Warren Buffet when he bought his new 2008 AMERICAN made Cadillac DTS for CASH stimulates the economy.
From MarketWatch:
U.S. April payrolls down 20,000, job rate falls to 5.0%
The U.S. labor market was not as weak as expected in April, the government said Friday. The economy lost 20,000 nonfarm payroll jobs last month, according to a survey of business establishments, much less than the 81,000 lost in March and way below the 78,000 decline expected by economists surveyed by MarketWatch. The unemployment rate inched down to 5.0% in April from 5.1% in March. Economists were expecting the unemployment rate to tick up to 5.2%.
Employers trimmed a less-than-expected 20,000 jobs in April, marking the 4th straight month of losses; unemployment falls to 5%.
More on the jobs report;
“In April, the number of persons working part time for economic reasons increased by 306,000 to 5.2 million. This level was 849,000 higher than in April 2007. These individuals indicated that they were working part time because their hours had been cut back or because they were unable to find afull-time job.”
“Employment in temporary help services continued to trend down.”
“The manufacturing workweek declined by 0.3 hour to 40.9 hours, and factory overtime was
down by 0.1 hour to 3.9 hours.”
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
#8 rewuss: The problem here is that you want to dictate what people should do with their money. You’re probably some ridiculous cheapskate like 3bonehead.
Yes than do not dictate that my money should bail out losers like yourself and othe clowns who fancied themselves real esate investors
Interesting. The numbers were much better than I expected. Strange that on the heals of such positive news the Fed decides to expand their loan facility…
The Fed has announced it is increasing its Term Auction Facility to $150 billion from $100 billion. The Fed is increasing its swap lines to the Swiss National Bank from $6 billion to $12 billion, increasing the line to the European Central Bank from $20 billion to $50 billion, and expanding its TSLF to include AAA asset-backed securities.
BS birth death contribution doubled to 267K
My husband and I found a for sale by owner listing on Craiglist and went to the open house a few weeks ago. We fell in love with the house. We put a bid on the house through our RE Agent but the seller refused to pay our broker the commission because our agent did not “procure the buyer”. The sellers offered us a great deal if we cut out our agent.
We are first time buyers and don’t know what to do. My agent wants to drive the transaction and won’t compromise too much on his commission fee. Any advice?
Eva: Never fall in love with a house before you buy it. It will make you behave irrationally.
“Interesting. The numbers were much better than I expected.”
Stu [29],
Dig thru the report/details.
bear [30],
Can somebody tell me where these jobs are located?
#21 John: You could have been describing recrybaby’s situation.
He is probably some over fed broke 50 year old with a 2008 Benz in his drive way, who is crying for a hand out.
He is typical of that crowd, they buy what they want, and cry for what they nned.
File this one under too little too late.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/02/news/economy/fed_credit_cards/index.htm?postversion=2008050204
Nothing wrong in falling in love with a house, not everything in life needs to be analyzed on an excel spreadsheet.
the developing economic and housing situation in the US is starting to resemble the russian financial crisis of 98. Not necessarily in the financial sense so much as in the social impacts of a crumbling currency. below is an article from cnn about 1999/2000. in many aspects you would think you were reading about the US in 08
Russia’s Silent Middle Class
By Carol Clark
Special to Interactive
(CNN) — Russia’s newly emerged middle class, which led the country’s charge into the free market, now sits on the sidelines and watch as their hard-earned lifestyles crumble. Their charge cards and business skills are powerless in the face of a collapsing currency and government.
The young entrepreneurs and professionals are seen by many observers of Russian politics as a critical force that now lies dormant. The door is open for a savvy politician to unite this segment of society and mobilize it — for better or worse.
The middle class has become increasingly visible in recent years — dining out in restaurants with menus full of imported delicacies, shopping for automobiles, working in flashy new banks, running small businesses and even vacationing in the French Riviera. Its growing affluence was most apparent in Russia’s major cities, especially Moscow.
Sergei Sokolovski arrived in Moscow from his native Siberia five years ago. A senior researcher at the Russian Academy of Sciences, he watched the city bloom following the fall of communism.
“During the last five years, Moscow has changed a lot,” Sokolovski said. “Very rich people have lots of money that has spilled into the city and is slowly leaking into the rest of the population. The streets are cleaner and brighter. New buildings are erected. It’s changing to something much better than it was. There are several restaurants and things like that, full of people.”
With the devaluation of the ruble a few weeks ago, Moscow’s upwardly mobile trend nose-dived along with everyone’s bank accounts.
Sokolovski, who had recently deposited a grant worth $10,000 into a Moscow bank, had to withdraw the money to leave for a scholarly exchange program in the United States on August 29.
“When I took all of my rubles from the bank, I lost about $2,000 [from the original $10,000],” Sokolovski said. “Many people, who did not react immediately, will lose much more.”
Any hope for Russia to find its way out of its current crisis lies with the elite, not the middle class, Sokolovski said.
Perestroika, a movement begun in 1985 to rebuild Russia economically, “was a revolution from above, initiated by the political elite, not by the people,” he said. “Again, it will take a revolution from above. It all depends on the oligarchy, because Russia is not a real democracy.”
Russia’s middle class cannot play a viable role because it has failed to recognize its own existence, said Harley Balzer, director of the Center for Eurasian, Russian and East European Studies at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C.
“The biggest problem with the Russian middle class is that it hasn’t yet defined itself,” Balzer said. “You talk to a Russian and they say, ‘There is no middle class here.’ That’s because their image of the middle class is America in the 1960s and 1970s.”
Balzer, who is working on a book about Russia’s middle class, defines its members as anyone earning the equivalent of $300 to $1,000 per month. He estimated that 20 to 30 percent of the country’s population fit that description before the economic crackup began in July.
“It’s hard to get an exact number, because everyone lies about their income,” Balzer said. “Much of their money comes not in official pay packets, but through other means — under-the-table payments, stock options, insurance benefits and undeclared rental incomes.”
The spirit with which Russia’s young entrepreneurs and professionals embraced a newfound sense of individuality is partly to blame for the crisis.
“They were sick of the collectivism,” Balzer said. “They opted for a strategy of individual rather than collective action. The middle class was not playing the political and social role that you would expect in a democratic or capitalist society.”
They are now paying a heavy price. Their savings accounts are dissolving along with the value of the ruble. Sought-after jobs with international companies and the service sector are disappearing, and small businesses are failing.
“Only when the middle class develops political consciousness can it make a difference,” Balzer said. “This crisis might be a learning experience. If they recover from it, one hopes that business people and entrepreneurs will understand that only by bonding together and becoming involved in politics can they ensure long-term stability. It’s not enough to make money and stick it into bank accounts.”
President Boris Yeltsin lauded the middle class in his February address to Russia’s legislative branch, the Federal Assembly. He called “a substantial and stable middle class” the critical basis for a civic society and constitutional system in Russia and said the country must create “the most favorable environment possible for an expansion of the middle class.”
Yeltsin failed, however, to get the Duma, Russia’s lower house of parliament, to pass a tax code that would benefit the middle class and to provide an effective legal system for its long-term development.
Few are now venturing predictions on the future of Russia.
“One thing we do know,” Balzer said, “is that the downwardly mobile members of the middle class were the greatest supporters of Adolf Hitler.
“In Russia, an awful lot of people were just beginning to find their way in (to economic prosperity). They have a lot more to lose than poor people, and they don’t like their cut in status. That makes them a very dangerous group, politically. They were disillusioned by communism, disillusioned by capitalism, and now they’re looking for a savior.
John, cut the crap. All you’re trying to do is force your worldview on your neighbor. If you’re taking care of what you need to take care of, how is it that you have time to watch your neighbor? Why don’t you stop being so nosy and try staying out of his damn business? I’ll answer that-because you’re jealous.
Look, they’re working hard and if they want to get a Benz so what? If you’re so concerned about the 11 year old being at home alone, why haven’t you offered to have him over to play with your kids?
People like you are the main reason that put up privacy shrubs.
John Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 8:30 am
RE 101 When my neighbor and his wife works six days a week 12 hours a day and live a 11 year boy to work home from school by himself to an empty house and make his own dinner evernight while their gutters are hanging off the house and their fence is falling over lease a 2008 Benz I am not resentful cause he is spending money I am resentful that he is letting his house go to pot and that 11 year old will soon be playing with matches and killing cats and dogs if left home long enough and I got to live next door. I also don’t think he even realizes how stupid a 2008 60K Benz looks in a blue collar worker 50 year old splits driveway. You and I will be bailing him out in a few years when the stocks in our 401K dip due to banks taking write offs for bozos like him and when our taxes go up as we have to pay for his nursing home care and medical costs when he is old cause he had not saved a nickle.
# NNJ Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:00 am
Nothing wrong in falling in love with a house, not everything in life needs to be analyzed on an excel spreadsheet.
when you are talking about one of the largest purchases in your life, an asset that is most likely many times your net worth, then it should be approached with an excel spreadsheet and a minimum of emotion. Emotion and lack of excel spreadsheets was a big driver in the current mess.
31, ok what am I missing, why would you have your BUYERS agent put in a bid on a FSBO. You found the house, you attended the open house on your own and he made a phone call to put in the bid. Does he want 3% for making a call.
Plus the FSBO did not hire a sellers agent and he has no contract with your agent why would he want to pay your buyers agent any money? Also did you sign a contract with the realtor or is this a good faith thing, if not just buy the house if you like it and don’t give the realtor a nickel. If I did not have a written contract to pay someone money why would I do it? Or am I missing somenthing.
The unemployment numbers are totally cooked. This is for the IB’s and hedge funds to keep leveraging up because they are so capitally impaired.
No wonder the loan facilites are being expanded. More toxic swaps for treasuries so the leverage can go up. So the banks can make more money.
It does not matter that the banks do not loan to one another. The LIBOR could be 5%. The banks will just keep borrwoing from the guvmint.
Dow to 15,000 by the end of the year.
3bonehead,
I believe this board is entitled to explanation of why you’re too cheap to purchase toilet paper. You admitted as much as few days ago.
3b Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 8:57 am
#21 John: You could have been describing recrybaby’s situation.
He is probably some over fed broke 50 year old with a 2008 Benz in his drive way, who is crying for a hand out.
He is typical of that crowd, they buy what they want, and cry for what they nned.
I agree with RE101,
lets actually expect personal responsibility. if you spend your way into massive debt for shiny new toys or fail to plan for your financial future, then you should be left to the consequences of your actions!
Oh wait, didnt you wan the government to bail out all of the idiotic home owners who cannot do a basic personal budget analysis or who were apparently illiterate and unable to read the contract they signed?
#42 rewuss: Cannot even respond to that, save to say that you are among many other shor comings;ignorant.
Eva,
Agents in my office broker FSBO deals for free. Hand-holding through the process is more like it. Why? 8 times out of 10, the agent secures the seller as a client on their move-up purchase. Also on the table is the potential for referrals and future business, along with the possibility of securing a listing if the FSBO deal falls through.
You can always just ditch your agent, although some might feel that was bad karma. If you are in the bad karma camp, realize that you also have the ability to compensate your agent via commission. Nothing stopping the buyer from paying the commission, just as long as the commission comes from one side only.
Re 38, when I heard they were moving in I put up a 6.5 foot solid PVC fence between me and their property. I want to move on in a few years and I figured the best thing I can do is to just hide the trash behind a fence.
I actually never ever ever talk to dual full time working couples with children in my neighborhood, learned my lesson, first of all they are never home so it is hard to ever see them. Second once they find out your wife is home they start asking for favors which they can’t return and eventually you have to start saying no no and no to them so what is the point of talking to them. Been their done that. I actually have an old restored SL convt that I drive in the summers so I have a benz, I would be jealus that it is not a 2008 except the my name is on the title of my car. Silly to be jealus of a leased car as it is just a long term rental. I am very jealus of porsche 911 convt owners!! Triple Black is my favorite. Wife will not allow me to buy another two seater so I am sticking with my pre kids two seater.
grim/richnj: Can one of you guys please give me the address and property taxes for njmls 2817951.
Listed as a short sale
The same geniuses that have a $600 a month car lease in their driveway, will be flooding the govt with the 20% writedown/freeze for the porposed 5 year plan. Speaking of that plan, we’ve heard about Hope Now, Lifeline and Freeze. What is this asinine plan called?
BC,
Buy now, pay later?
New COAH rules target more open space for development
New Jerseyans are fed up with suburban sprawl and continue to vote for preserving our forests, farmland and open space. But most folks also understand and appreciate the need for affordable housing in this very expensive state. A more carefully thought-out set of rules would prevent these from becoming mutually exclusive goals.
ReInvestor(38): “Look, they’re working hard and if they want to get a Benz so what?”
Cause we’re sick of paying for your government handouts you complete ignoramus. I have infinitely more respect for the street beggars than I do for you and your kind. I have a choice to give or not give to the beggar. In your case, I am wrongly penalized for your fiscally irresponsible behavior, just as I am paying for Bear & Fannie’s mistakes. All the meanwhile, you like to attribute the great waste of the tax dollar to the blacks and Mexicans. You, my confused compatriot, will be recorded in history as being most similar to a Roman Senator.
3b,
304 Continental
Takes: $8,831
Funny you mention toliet paper, in college I worked at an exclusive country club and damm it the members they were always breaking the locks and stealing the toliet paper, when I asked my boss about it he said that is how the rich say rich. I love it when a lady in a leased car pulls into starbucks buys a cup of coffee swipes the free times, takes 20 sugars and heads on out!
From the AP:
Linens ‘n Things files for bankruptcy protection
Linens ‘n Things is filing for bankruptcy protection, the latest major retailer to succumb to the difficult retail environment.
The bedding- and home-furnishings retailer’s parent, Linens Holding Co., has filed a petition for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in Delaware.
In March the company said its fiscal fourth-quarter loss widened. It has said it was planning to cut costs and reduce staff to turn around results in a “highly leveraged” situation.
The Clifton, N.J.-based company was acquired by investment firm Apollo Management in 2006.
Maybe RE 101 thinks if we all buy enough Benzs maybe they can afford to fire up the ovens again?
OT,
Food crisis leaves many Afghans desperate
Huge price hike threatens to boost recruitment for Taliban insurgency
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24422672/
Good job Ben.
#52 grim: Thanks grim. A short sale in prestigious blue ribbon, train town River Edge. I am shocked!!!
Stu (51):
Just wait until we pay for Countrywide’s loan portfolio, 38 billion. Cause there is no way BOA will take that on. The fed will bail it out cause it needs to bail everybody out.
Except bag holders….sorry RE101..
This is the bailot for RE101:
http://www.walkawayplan.com/
Big Retailers Scaling Back Expansion Plans and Shutting Stores
Home Depot, the nation’s largest home improvement chain, said on Thursday that it would abandon plans to open 50 new stores and would close 15 poorly performing locations. As part of the belt-tightening, the company will permanently scale back plans for expansion after 2008, when it will open new stores at the slowest rate in its 30-year history.
I am surprised out of 15 closing, 2 are in NJ. I believe Saddle Brook and East Brunswick stores are closing.
Over the last six months, chains like Starbucks, Pacific Sunwear and Ann Taylor have vowed to close a combined 1,000 stores. Foot Locker will close 140 stores over the next year, Ann Taylor will start to shutter 117, and the jeweler Zales will close 100. Charming Shoppes, which owns the women’s clothing retailers Lane Bryant and Fashion Bug, is closing at least 150 stores. Wilsons the Leather Experts will close 158. Pacific Sunwear is shutting a 153-store chain called Demo.
The International Council of Shopping Centers, a trade group, predicts 5,770 store closings in 2008, an increase of 25 percent from 2007.
Penney’s said it would open 36 stores this year, not 50 as planned. Kohl’s, which had aimed to open 100 stores a year, will build just 75 in 2008.
“It’s no secret that America is over-stored,” said Mr. Dreher, the analyst.
“Buy now, pay later?”
JB,
Can I purchase, right now, at 80% off the agreed upon price and let the seller know that the remaining 20% will be paid in 5 years? Better yet, can I buy with the 2008 version of an 80/20, 80% my $, 20% from our Treasury, the 20% payable to our govt in 5 years? We can create a new tranche. The top layer, 80%, is rated AAA, the bottom layer, 20%, is rated BBB-. We can package it and sell it to 50.5. I’m sure he will purchase the crap. After all, it is the patriotic thing to do, support housing.
All Hype,
I heard on Bloomberg this morning that Sallie Mae is now looking for the ‘ol Bernanke bailout citing the BSC as a precedent. The worst repercussion being that any public company will now take on way more risk since they can now expect a government bailout a la Bear Stearns.
The market just may run up to 15,000, but when the reality hits the republic it may drop down to 10,000 overnight.
Stu:
I agree with you, the market may and probably wil drop like a stone. All I see is that no one high up on wall street has learned any lessons from this credit crisis. They will leverage until Uncle Ben has no more bullets in the gun and then they wil dump everything, causing a freefall in the DOW.
Question with regards to Buyers agent:
You can always just ditch your agent, although some might feel that was bad karma.
What is the mechanism of ditching you agent if you did sign buyer’s agreement??
I assume you at least have to tell them, that you are no longer needing their services??
You can’t just go place bids on property. Or if you did find the property yourself, you buyer’s agent did not find it or did any research on it you are automatically home free?? Kind of gray area as I’d say you agent still spent time on looking for houses for you and working with you.
I am asking because right now I did sign an agreement with agent for them to be my buyer’s agent. Broker/owner told me that this agreement is non-binding and I can tell them to go take a hike anytime.
It is standard buyer’s agent agreement. It does not state my obligations except that agent will be compensated as buyer agent when I buy a house. Nothing about breaking contract.
Another “ethical/legal” question – Is it legal for my buyer’s agent to disclose details of a transaction on a house I was interested in buying, but someone else put an offer in and got under contract.
It seems that house will not close (buyer is failing to secure financing) but it is still listed as under contract. (this is third house I was interested in, which did not close, and came back on the market in the last 2 weeks. It is definitely getting interesting out there. )
Future (#5) / Grim (#9)
Q1: As Grim mentioned, there’s nothing stopping you from prepaying your 30 yr. If you are saving that much in monthly payments you can put that towards the principal in the first 2 or 3 years and make a nice dent in your debt.
I took a cursory look at rates and there seems to be a .25 difference in rates but the cost seem negligible. I would go with the 30yr and use the payment flexibility wisely.
brief Westfield anecdote:
Last year we considered a bid on a 4/2 in town that was about 100 years old. Asking $500k. I spotted some serious deferred maintenance and possible structural problems so did not bid.
Sadly, the house was foreclosed 12/07 and sold REO last month for $390k on a $380 ask.
It can (and does) happen here — even in Brigadoon.
Duh! That’s why it pays to get out there, know your local “market” and compare for yourself. Personally, I KNOW sold prices are down. Asking prices, no.
I also feel Pummer gives to much time to Yun to spin his rhetoric. It’s more commentary than news.
From MarketWatch
Home-price data has its flaws
Market anomalies painting skewed picture, index producers acknowledge
Commonly cited measures of U.S. home prices are overstating the degree to which the vast majority of Americans’ home values have declined in the last year, producers of two of the most widely tracked indexes acknowledged this week.
Top officials with the National Association of Realtors and Standard & Poor’s, which issues the S&P/Case-Shiller Home Price Index, agreed this week their monthly reports are giving imprecise readings of price changes at all levels — national, state and regional — due to rare market conditions that are skewing survey results.
The NAR reported last week that U.S median home prices fell 7.7% in March from a year ago. The decline resulted largely from a market anomaly — a steep decline in costlier home sales due to tighter lending standards and high jumbo-mortgage rates, coupled with a foreclosure-driven spike in cheaper homes.
“If there are a lot more homes sold on the low end and fewer on the high end, the median price is bound to drop dramatically,” NAR Chief Economist Lawrence Yun said. “In normal times, a median price would reflect typical homeowner equity changes, but these are not normal times. The jumbo (mortgage) market is frozen and the buying activity is more concentrated in lower-value homes.”
The S&P/Case-Shiller index, which Tuesday posted a 12.7% decline for February, is skewed for two reasons of its own — it tracks just 20 major markets, many among the hardest hit, and its “repeat sales” survey by design pulls in individual homes both bought and sold in the last few years. Many of those are now being dumped by distressed homeowners and investors who bought at peak market prices and face higher mortgage-rate adjustments.
Much more at the link above
… and its “repeat sales” survey by design pulls in individual homes both bought and sold in the last few years. Many of those are now being dumped by distressed homeowners and investors who bought at peak market prices and face higher mortgage-rate adjustments.
How does he know this as fact? How far back does Case-Shiller track sales? Why shouldn’t these homes be counted, because they are selling for less they “don’t count”.?
I need a fix.
Anxiously awaiting Friday’s writedowns.
Re “The Coming Collapse of the Middle Class”… one thing Elizabeth Warren did not address is the incessant drain of funds on families with kids in school. We are CONSTANTLY asking for donations of kleenex etc. (I finally got so embarrassed..I just buy it myself for the classroom.) I send home a flyer every week for some school fund-raiser or another : jog-a-thon, coupon book sales, book fairs, carnival – you name it. If the schools can squeeze money out of the parents – they are doing it.
Our school (student body account) now relies on profits from these sales to fund uniforms, supplies, copies – you name it.
I’m pretty sure that was not the case in the 70’s.
It is just one more expense for those struggling families with kids…picking up the slack for underfunded schools.
I found the entire lecture fascinating.
Gotta go to school…have a great day.
From MarketWatch:
U.S. March factory orders up 1.4% vs. 0.2% expected
U.S. March durable goods up rev. 0.1% vs down 0.3% prev est
Schools are not under funded and there is no correlation between funding levels and performance.
If there was a correlation, the public school kids in Hoboken would all be in Harvard and Yale and the Rumson-Fair Haven public school kids would all be in jail.
funding? performance? How about simple livable facilities for kids….where walls are not peeling lead paint….windows are not broken….and heaters work.
Schools are underfunded. Administration is overloaded. And what does a school administrator do? Does anyone know?
“Asia Getting Fed Up With Bernanke’s Rate Cuts”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&refer=columnist_pesek&sid=acrUvNUAIYX4
the actual “teaching” of the children is underfunded. Schools as an organization are over funded and the difference is in the needles bureaucracy that has grown up around the teachers unions.
hence why we a voucher system. The counter argument to a voucher system is that the wealthy will still have better education. This is true, the wealthy will always be able to afford better education, that is capitalism. the point is to provide a minimum level of competent education.
why do you want people locked into an education system that does not work? why not allow people the ability to choose the education system that works best for them. This is already the case with private schools, but why not afford that option to everyone?
Department as a Secondary Market
The bill temporarily authorizes the Department to purchase FFEL loans originated on or after October 1, 2003, provided those purchases do not result in any cost to the federal government. The Department’s authority to purchase loans under this provision expires on July 1, 2009.
The bill would stipulate that if the Department acts as a secondary market lender, it must ensure that any proceeds paid to a lender are used in a “manner consistent with ensuring continued participation of such lender in the Federal student loan programs.” In other words, it would prohibit lenders from using those proceeds in any other way than ensuring they continue participating in FFELP.
Thsi bill has passed senate and it’s now awaiting presidents signature.
All the student loan that have been securitized in the last 5 years that the lender can’t sell cause none will go near them with a ten foot pole are now being picked up by us taxpayers.
Why is it taking this long for people to make a run at washington and hang these corrupt politicians for TREASON.
38 Re OMG, for the first time you’ve said something that I agree with.
I don’t believe the ability to send your kids to a private school should be deemed a right.
As you say, the role of government should be to provide a minimum level of competent education.
Anyone have a web site that accurately tracks sales in a particular region?? When I looked at home.com for recent sales in my area I was shocked at how high the prices were and somehow feel I’m not getting the whole pic…like John I am trying to be very local specific..really know my area..but where do you get the real story. interesting tho as they had the price for an OK redo sold last summer at 1.2k….hard to believe…must be some sweet counter tops in there because the lot is small and shallow.
make money
The answer is HOPE. people have to hope that they will be the next big lotto winner of life and that they to can be intelligent and wealthy. otherwise life looks pretty bleak for most people
Pressure is mounting on credit card issuers, with the Federal Reserve scheduled to hold a public meeting today to approve new rules that would curb the industry’s abilities to impose fees on cardholders.
The proposed regulations, which among other things would prohibit banks from increasing the annual percentage rate on a customer’s outstanding balance and forbid them from charging a late fee, come as a number of bills that also aim to rein in card issuers are wending their way through Congress.
The regulations are a combined effort of the Federal Reserve, the Office of Thrift Supervision, and the National Credit Union Administration; the latter two approved the rules yesterday. Unlike the proposals on Capitol Hill, no congressional approval is required for the federal regulations, and the agencies expect to finalize the moves by the end of the year.
“This is a move toward involuntary glasnost for the card industry,” an associate professor of law at Georgetown University Law Center, Adam Levitin, said.
The push to increase credit card transparency is “fallout from the mortgage foreclosures, and the criticism of the Fed that it didn’t do enough to prevent it,” a senior fellow at the Milken Institute, James Barth, said. “The Fed doesn’t want to be accused of letting people go into too much debt, perhaps unknowingly, which is exactly what happened with subprime mortgages.”
The proposed restrictions come as banks are reeling from the mortgage crisis, and are looking to raise credit card fees as a way to boost revenue. Several banks have already increased the amount they charge for ATM withdrawals, and yesterday, Discover lifted its penalty rate for cardholders to 31%. In March, Bank of America tripled rates for some customers, while Washington Mutual has pushed its interest rates higher, in some cases by as much as 100%.
The American Bankers Association, which represents the banks that issue credit cards, is arguing that the consumer, not the banks, will feel the brunt of these new rules.
“We are very concerned that this will increase prices for consumers, and provide them less access for credit,” the card policy counsel for the ABA, Kenneth Clayton, said.
For example, by prohibiting card issuers from raising annual rates for risky consumers, all consumers will be forced to pay higher rates, Mr. Clayton said. Bank of America, for instance, said earlier this year that just 7% of its customers see annual rates increase between the start of the year and the end. “That means that 93% of their customers see their rates lowered or stay the same. Don’t get me wrong, that is a lot of people, but they bear the cost of higher rates, while everyone else benefits from lower rates,” Mr. Clayton said.
The proposals from the Fed, the Office of Thrift Supervision, and the National Credit Union Administration include:
• Prohibiting credit card issuers from charging consumers a late fee unless they have been given “a reasonable amount of time to make a payment.” Institutions that allow at least 21 days to make a payment after statements are mailed or delivered will be offered “a safe harbor.”
• Prohibiting card issuers that offer different rates for different balances from allocating a payment to the account with the lowest rate first. If a customer makes a payment, the card issuer will either have to apply the payment to the balance with the highest annual percentage rate first, or split the payment equally among the different accounts.
• Prohibiting card issuers from raising the rate on an outstanding balance, except if a promotional rate has expired or if the cardholder defaults on a payment by more than 30 days.
• Stopping card issuers from using double-cycle billing, in which they apply a finance charge on an outstanding balance that is based on balances from previous billing cycles.
• Prohibiting card issuers from charging a fee or security deposit for the issuance of credit if the fees take up the majority of the consumer’s available credit on the account.
• In soliciting new customers, card issuers would have to disclose whether a consumer could qualify for the lowest annual rate and the highest credit limit the card offers.
On Capitol Hill, Rep. Carolyn Maloney, a Democrat of New York, has proposed a Credit Cardholder’s Bill of Rights, which would allow cardholders to pay off old balances at the annual rate they were charged at the time, even if their rate has risen subsequently. Consumers would also have three billing cycles after any rate increase to cancel their cards.
On Wednesday, Senator Dodd introduced the Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility, and Disclosure Act, which would prohibit issuers from charging customers if they paid a bill by phone, and would require consumers under age 21 get the approval of a guardian or parent.
The chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Rep. John Conyers, has taken a different tack with his bill, the Credit Card Fair Fee Act, which focuses on the so-called interchange fee. This is the fee that merchants’ banks pay to the cardholders’ banks, and is used mostly to fund credit card rewards programs. While merchants don’t pay the fee directly, their costs go up in relation to it.
“This is ultimately a hidden tax on consumers,” a vice president for government relations at the National Retail Federation, Craig Sherman, said.
Card issuers, meanwhile, argue that this legislation is a price cap, and are attempting to persuade several Republicans who have signed on to it, including Rep. Chris Cannon, to remove their names. A spokesman for Mr. Cannon said he was still supportive of the measures.
Hobokenite.
What i am suggesting is that the amount of money alloted for a childs education be attached to the child not the school. So if school a sucks but school b is good, then the child may simply go to school B. instead of the current setup where if a child is in school A and school A sucks then the parents have to pay the education costs of sending child to school B when the money already exists for this.
I talked last night to a friend who bit the bullet at Merill yestedy. He said it was a bit of a bloodbath. A lot of corporate departments (IT, Accounting, Maintainance) hit. Looks like they wil outsource most everything.
Aprils WARN notice should make interesting reading.
kettle1 Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 10:56 am
Hobokenite.
What i am suggesting is that the amount of money alloted for a childs education be attached to the child not the school. So if school a sucks but school b is good, then the child may simply go to school B. instead of the current setup where if a child is in school A and school A sucks then the parents have to pay the education costs of sending child to school B when the money already exists for this.
It exists in other parts of a country – It is called Charter school system. Look it up.
hey kettle…does that mean if you live in one town…you could send your kid to school in another town? Wouldn’t that completely upturn all notions of property value relative to schools?
I have couple of friends which kids in a charter schools – they LOVE IT. It is as they have sent their kids into a very good private schools. Also it will never happen in NJ as teachers union will not allow competition.
#53 John,
I’m going to throw you a random word. I want to see what creative story you come up with from the word(s). Oh and you have to start out by saying ” Funny you mentioned..” or “Speaking of…”
word is submarine
Park Bench
oops, not park bench, that would be too easy for you.
Laurie
I am now doing exactly what you are looking to do. The best way I know of to get up to date information on listings and closings is to work with someone who has acess to the data, aka a relator. I have found a realtor who is willing to do this. She sends weekly emails on all the listings and closings on a specific type of house I am following in my specific area. I then compile the info in a nifty Excel spreadsheet. It is so nice beacuse you can see OLP, LP and finally SP for a targeted area in real time, this allows you to get a real handle on the trends and comps.
Essex Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:03 am
hey kettle…does that mean if you live in one town…you could send your kid to school in another town? Wouldn’t that completely upturn all notions of property value relative to schools?
In charter schools system it is excactly what it means. BUT you still pay property taxes, just your township/municipality gives you a voucher for certain amount whoch you can take to charter/private school.
kettle1,
That sounds great in theory, but what concerns me about it is that when the public school starts losing children/money to the public schools, they will be forced to raise taxes. It seems like it’s an easy way for the taxpayer to subsidize children going to private school.
84 AL
i am familiar with charter schools, and think that they are a step in the right direction, but i think we should go one step further to a real voucher system. still a charter system is better then what we have here.
Essex 85
yes, do you see a particular issue with that ?
Make that “losing children/money to the private schools”
JBJB [89],
I’ve asked for that kind of data from realtors in the past strictly on a one time, just-to-see kind of scenario and by their reation, you would’ve thought I just killed a loved one.
Hobokenite:
In the scenario i described you would have all money for schools going into 1 state fund. that money is then given to schools based on the number of students who go there as the money travels with the student. This is a much more equitable system then what we currently have.
Also, i acknowledge that there are a number of details that would have to be worked out in the real world, but such system function effectively all over the world, Scandinavia is a prime example.
Hobokenite Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:11 am
kettle1,
That sounds great in theory, but what concerns me about it is that when the public school starts losing children/money to the public schools, they will be forced to raise taxes. It seems like it’s an easy way for the taxpayer to subsidize children going to private school.
Wrong – once public schools start losing childern to charter/private schools, all they have to do is decrease staff as enrolment will fall and not as many teachers needed.
Again – NJ teachers union is afraid of competition – see my post above – imagine all of thouse school administrators and principles out of job – They are the ones who make 180K/year and yet do not teach..
JBJB RE:89
OK that’s pretty much what I thought…can’t work around those Re’s no matter how much you try. Do you think their #’s on these sights are just plain wrong or is it more like only making certain house prices available that tell a certain story…like “look how high the prices are here!!”…Thanks for your input
Eva – I think the seller has a point, your agent hasn’t actually done anything for him so why should he pay him/her?
On the other hand, if you wish to use the agent for negotiations, paperwork etc. for your own comfort level, then there is no reason why you can’t work out a fee structure so that he is adequately compensated for his time. But as he is working for you, the onus would be on you to pay him.
News piece (Channel 7 last night I think) was on students not getting loans. They couched it as a poor student issue, but you could tell the University rep was worried about his income stream, he was even upset that parents couldn’t take out home equity loans any more. The college was Fairleigh Dickenson.
Grim – sending you an e-mail about a house I want info on. Don’t want it in a public forum. Thanks.
Laurie
I haven’t looked at any websites, but my guess is that the data may not be wrong, but it’s likely old and essentially useless.
The funny thing is though, the market is so shitty right now, there is hardly anything closing to build a good data set around!
Gary
I’ve had similar reactions, finally found one who is willing to do it. We’ll see how long she is willing to do it once she relaizes I am in no hurry to purchase.
Grim,
Could you possibly post a Buyers agreement and a CIS if I email them to you in pdf? I feel people get the 2 forms confused.
KL
If you want your kid to go to school in another–perhaps higher end district — can’t you pay to go there?
Al,
Wrong – once public schools start losing childern to charter/private schools, all they have to do is decrease staff as enrolment will fall and not as many teachers needed.
Again – NJ teachers union is afraid of competition – see my post above – imagine all of thouse school administrators and principles out of job – They are the ones who make 180K/year and yet do not teach..
It’s easy to say “Wrong”, but do you really know? Say the school cuts staff/teachers. This may lead to the education that the children get deteriorating. This would lead to more parents opting to take their children out of the school. etc. etc.
There are certain fixed costs that schools have. To take an extreme example, suppose all children in a public school are taken out except one. Do you suppose that the $5000 (or whatever) voucher will be sufficient to fund the running of the entire school for that one child?
Good thing you did not mention Park Bench cause that was my college hang out bar in stony brook.
In regards to submarines growing up my house in great neck was the first one in from little neck bay and the soviets had it as a first tier target attack with their nuclear missle as it was the first point of land contact for their missle intended for the Great Neck based Sprerry Coporation (now Uniys) which made the gyroscopes for nuclear warheads. Without gyroscopes the nuclear war heads could not be used long range. The US trident submarine at all times was prepared to intercept the missle directly headed at my house at all times. The trident sub did a good job as my old house is still standing. Interesting enough you can pilot a virutal nuclear sub at the john hopkins site.
http://inventors.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://science.howstuffworks.com/submarine1.htmsubmarine
essex,
why should you have to pay twice when the money for educating your child already exists?
#52 grim: Sorry, on more question. Can you get me the last sales price? Thanks.
3b,
SLD 304 CONTINENTAL AVE $300,000 7/23/2001
104 hobokenite
There are certain fixed costs that schools have. To take an extreme example, suppose all children in a public school are taken out except one. Do you suppose that the $5000 (or whatever) voucher will be sufficient to fund the running of the entire school for that one child?/i>
that is the entire idea. if a school cannot compete it will be run out of business. at the same time if you think you have a better model for running a school that meets the states education requirements then you can open a school yourself! this model is closer to modern doctors offices then the US school systems it currently exists.
You can also do like Sweden and ban schools that receive public money for education to take any sort of fee from parents. This would prevent elite schools from double dipping. you either take public money or you go 100% private
105…it’s still less than the cost of Pingry per year.
Kettle, lets see the schools in my town pay no property taxes and are housed in mortgage free buildings. If they can’t compete on cost versus a charter school that bought an built a school building and pays property tax they should be out of business.
My sub story is in moderation. Speaking of that I may get a $5 dollar sub for lunch.
lis,
Sent the prior and current listings
kl,
Absolutely
essex,
i do not get your point. Pingry is the definition of an elite school. i’m not suggesting we send everyone to a pingry type school. just allow competition and allow bad schools to fail.
kettle1,
that is the entire idea. if a school cannot compete it will be run out of business. at the same time if you think you have a better model for running a school that meets the states education requirements then you can open a school yourself! this model is closer to modern doctors offices then the US school systems it currently exists.
You can also do like Sweden and ban schools that receive public money for education to take any sort of fee from parents. This would prevent elite schools from double dipping. you either take public money or you go 100% private
So what happens if the local public school goes out of business, you can’t afford the local private school, and the closest public school is 50 miles away? Allowing public schools to “fail” seems like it would be disproportionately bad for the poor.
Sweeden also bans advanced placement class and kindergarten and has the best schools in the world. Segregation of the brighest kids from the regular kids lowers tests scores. The brighter kids are instructed if they finish first to help the others. The result is bright kids who understand team work and how to instruct others. The US approach leaves the 30 regular kids all fighting for the teachers attention which means they learn less and the AP classes create snooty kids who can work in the real world upon graduation as they have no concept of team work or training others less gifted then themselves.
Re: teacher unions
Are you sure administration is part of the teacher’s union in NJ? They aren’t in the teacher’s union in NYC.
Just got my stimulus! Not as stimulating as I thought it would be. Turns out the $600.00 is not a given you have to make a certain amount to get that, we only got $300.00 each and $300.00 each kid. Good news though only had to hold on about 25 minutes to speak to someone at the IRS (-:
KL
Hobokenite
So what happens if the local public school goes out of business, you can’t afford the local private school, and the closest public school is 50 miles away? Allowing public schools to “fail” seems like it would be disproportionately bad for the poor.
this situation is self correcting. In order for the public school to go out of business, then where did all the students go? they went to another local school. if we assume we are talking about a school in a poor part of newark for example; then the parents did not like the local public school, so they took their vouchers and went to an alternative school in the area. This model has been successfully demonstrated in places like detriot and other poor areas with success in the form of charter schools. From what i have seen, the charter schools have outperformed the public schools the majority of the time
117….wow you must have had a rotten year.
kl,
Buyer’s Agency Agreement
https://njrereport.com/files/baa.pdf
CIS
https://njrereport.com/files/cis.pdf
this situation is self correcting. In order for the public school to go out of business, then where did all the students go? they went to another local school. if we assume we are talking about a school in a poor part of newark for example; then the parents did not like the local public school, so they took their vouchers and went to an alternative school in the area. This model has been successfully demonstrated in places like detriot and other poor areas with success in the form of charter schools. From what i have seen, the charter schools have outperformed the public schools the majority of the time
I didn’t necessarily mean Newark. Just your average middle class town. All the people who can afford it move their kids out of the public school, the school can’t afford to stay open, and the poor children are left with what?
I should point out that I don’t have children yet, so it’s all hypothetical to me, at least as far as the childrens education is concerned.
From MarketWatch:
Linens ‘n Things files for bankruptcy protection
Linens Holding Co., the operator of Linens ‘n Things home furnishings retail chain, said Friday it filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection with plans to shut 120 underperforming stores, becoming the latest retailer to fall under the weight of declining housing markets and other economic worries.
Grim – Thanks. Quite a history that house has.
118, voucher system etc… I don’t have a firm idea on how to fix the system, first off. But one flaw with the voucher system is that it penalizes kids whose parents suck. (Not every parent is going to go “Hey, I love my kid and want him to succeed. I’m going to pull him out of his current sucky school and send him to Snob Hill.”) In fact, the parents might not suck– but they’re working so much they don’t have time to figure out how to play the system. Whatever. So those kids stay at the sucky school, while all the kids who have involved parents get out. The school deteriorates even more, what with the potential higher achievers leaving and taking their money with them. It creates even harsher extremes. Poor class becomes poorer. Rich class becomes richer. I don’t want capitalism anywhere near where they’re educating my future nursing home attendants.
Just to say – it is useless to compare Sweden with the US. Sweden is very homogenous (sp?), small, coordinated and there is a lot less movement.
The US is fractured into states, counties and towns, all with their own education systems and various funding. People are extremely mobile both withing their states and across the country so new kids are coming into classes all the time. Plus you have an immigration based society with differing mother tongues and cultures.
Why would anyone sign a buyers agreement and is their a rule of thumb how much the buyer should pay if the agent locates a house.
123 right. and i *do* have kids. and i grew up on welfare and rural public schools (no computers, but we learned how to parse a sentence and a lot of my friends now don’t know an adverb from an elbow.)… i hesitate to draw any conclusions from that, but felt I should be up front about my background so my bias is clear. i
alia,
google some of the model voucher systems that have been tried around the US your scenario has not happened to my knowledge. A serious question: would you rather stay with the status quo that is highly ineffective?
oops. that was supposed to continue “i love welfare and gov’t assistance. i accept that my taxes now are allowing some other child to eat a subsidized breakfast and lunch, who might not otherwise get fed. i’m cool with that.”
To Eva#31 & Al #63
Please see grims post #122. I have sent the two forms that commonly get mixed up. If you have signed a CIS which is supposed to be signed prior to discussing any kind of offers/bids on any house- that is not a buyer’s agency agreement.
KL
hobokentie.
i think you are misunderstanding my hypothetical system. the poor and middle class and rich all have the same amount of money for my hypothetical school system. if you can afford then you can just pay cash to have your child go to pingry. but otherwise, the money follows your child.
The purpose of such a system is to allow choice. if montassori is your flavor of choice, great, catholic school, fantastic, etc.
kettle: i am a sad example. i am easily convinced by whatever well-presented data i’ve most recently read, so my opinions are pretty flexible… status quo isn’t awesome, i agree. i am unimpressed by any federally mandated options i’ve heard of. i like the sound of choice… but i haven’t been able to get past the rhetoric to understand what the read consequences would be. in my experience, parents love charter schools. i just worry about the kids left behind.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. I ate that crap for few months back in the bronx and we got green bolongia on stale bread every day and then one day it was a feast fit for a king and then we saw the govt auditors there checking up on how their money was being spent. Went back to peanut butter and never looked back.
ok, one more thing: is the status quo ineffective? i would say that it is deeply unfair, but i’m not sure ineffective is the right adjective.
BC,
i wonder how hillary is going to fix this? another bright idea like her gas tax holiday?
You drive past the gas station in Orleans and the sign says your fill is going for $1.22 a litre. Blame it on Russia.
The world’s largest oil producer reported that its output decreased for the first time in 10 years. It delivered one per cent less oil than a year ago.
What’s disconcerting about this little-known fact, trumpeted recently on the front page of The Wall Street Journal but getting little play elsewhere, is that the scenario unfolding in Russia is being repeated the world over. Essentially, its Siberian oil fields are aging, becoming tired, the easy-to-reach oil declining.
It is not alone. The world’s great oil deposits — the North Sea, Mexico’s Cantarell deposit and Alaska’s Prudhoe Bay — are seeing their production diminish despite astronomical demand.
So what of production from the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries? Its output is flat, in part due to declining fields.
http://tinyurl.com/8ozzl
alia 134
please expand on the kids left behind, i am curious about what you mean and your possible experience
Friday, May 02, 2008
Housing data crybabies and deceivers
With a name of a publication like the one you see at the top of this blog, if there are any biases by the writer (which surely there are), you probably have a good idea what they are. Not so with outfits like MarketWatch where columnists can write whatever they want while keeping their true motives unknown to readers.
http://themessthatgreenspanmade.blogspot.com/
ok, not done.
135 john: in my rural school, the “hot lunch” was homemade every day by 2 or 3 grandmas. it was delicious. monday would be roast chicken. tuesday would be chicken and noodles. wednesday would be chicken soup. thursday would be chicken pot pie. etc. boring sometimes, but delicious (and way better than i got at home.)
granted, the school i went to in the coal mining town had food that sucked a$$. but it sucked a$$ whether you paid for it or got it for free. i think this is (again) more about injustice in the system than a bad system. …and for some of us, even the a$$ food was better than what we got at home. (my mom can’t cook.)
BC,
Perhaps Paulson et al think that when we get to the ninth inning they just nationalize the entire banking system
In the bronx the only time you saw chicken was on thanksgiving when you used a coupon at KFC.
anyone know where i can buy a reel mower (the push kind without an engine) in NJ
Hehe [141],
Yes, there will be some Northern Crock’s. Does Hank realize that he may be in the 9th inning of the 1st game? Let’s play 2.
“anyone know where i can buy a reel mower”
kettle,
At the train station in Red Bank or Morristown.
Heeeyyyyy Oooohhhhhh!!!!!
thanks BC but i meant the metal kind, not the flesh and bone kind
kettle,
My mistake.
ket, 143
re reel mower.
at an antiques store.
sl
I’ve been having a very busy day, and so have only just arrived to see the photo essay – very nice!
Thanks, grim!!
SL
actually they use them on golf courses, for some of the greens
i.e
http://www.sunlawn.com/store/sunlawn-lmm40-p-58.html?osCsid=876073e71e28c19e87f8384b1a4d3e60
BC,
i thought the morristown police had cracked down on the hangout by the train station
Vouchers mean public funding for religious schools. Sugar-coat all you like.
Did you pay for that service, or did you just freeload like you probably always do?
Just wondering mainly because you cheapskates like to get off on the cheap just by saying “thanks”. I would have made you pay dearly.
njpatient Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:22 pm
I’ve been having a very busy day, and so have only just arrived to see the photo essay – very nice!
Thanks, grim!!
Jamey
“Nice photos, Patient. Did you drive? How was it?”
Thanks. We did drive down – we always do (my father is a physicist who used to design planes for Bristol Aircraft in England, and he’s terrified of flying, so I don’t if I don’t have to). The Little Patients are great in the car, and we really love the drive. Not only good family time, but the whole length of I81 through Virginia and Tennessee down through the Shenandoah Valley and through the Blue Ridge Mountains will never get old for me – the apple, cherry and dogwood blossoms were in bloom, and as we got a bit further south we started seeing the magnolias as well. I love that drive.
NOLA really was great – I was surprised at how much progress they’ve made in the last year – I’m used to ground zero in NYC where we’ve made so little progress in 7 years. As you say – the messed up aspects of NOLA are more likely to have been there since before Katrina, but I can remember when NYC had character, too (well before 2005).
Mothers is great, although if you want to avoid the tourists you can always go to Domilise’s: http://www.bestofneworleans.com/dispatch/2002-06-18/restreview.html
I had a great time, and can’t wait to get back down there (lostinny, if we take you with us will you help watch the Little Patients?).
NOLA reminds me of that lyric from one of the Cole Porter tunes in Anything Goes (during a production of which I met Mrs. Patient for); it’s a “dear old dirty town.”
http://www.bestofneworleans.com/dispatch/2002-06-18/restreview.html
Calculated Risk comments on the same MarketWatch piece I posted (post 66) earlier today using this apropos title: Flawed House Price Indices, Flawed Reporting
154 recrybaby101
Nah. I pay grim. Do you?
Or are you just here asking for another handout?
You seem to stop by once a day asking for us to give you our money because you f*cked up (I know, not your fault, you were born stupid).
Run along now and ask someone else to dig you out of the hole you’ve gotten yourself into, you pathetic wreck.
kettle: i am concerned that anything more i say about my personal experience will make me sound like i’m trying to play “my childhood sucked worse than yours”. i am highly competative, and fear that in trying to “win” i would really embarrass myself. :*)
nnj, good point, i had forgotten that one. i love the separation of church and state something fierce.
144 BC
Hank probably hasn’t even heard of Ernie Banks.
He’s un-American.
Like recrybaby101.
154…we need an extra tolerance donation just to listen to your nonsense.
Jamey
“Nice photos, Patient. Did you drive? How was it?”
Thanks. We did drive down – we always do (my father is a physicist who used to design planes for Bristol Aircraft in England, and he’s terrified of flying, so I don’t if I don’t have to). The Little Patients are great in the car, and we really love the drive. Not only good family time, but the whole length of I81 through Virginia and Tennessee down through the Shenandoah Valley and through the Blue Ridge Mountains will never get old for me – the apple, cherry and dogwood blossoms were in bloom, and as we got a bit further south we started seeing the magnolias as well. I love that drive.
NOLA really was great – I was surprised at how much progress they’ve made in the last year – I’m used to ground zero in NYC where we’ve made so little progress in 7 years. As you say – the messed up aspects of NOLA are more likely to have been there since before Katrina, but I can remember when NYC had character, too (well before 2005).
Mothers is great, although if you want to avoid the tourists you can always go to Domilise’s: http://www.bestofneworleans.com/dispatch/2002-06-18/restreview.html
I had a great time, and can’t wait to get back down there (lostinny, if we take you with us will you help watch the Little Patients?).
NOLA reminds me of that lyric from one of the Cole Porter tunes in Anything Goes (during a production of which I met Mrs. Patient for); it’s a “dear old dirty town.”
140 alia
coal mining town?
where, if I may ask?
And, how’s the kid??
“John Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:47 pm
There is no such thing as a free lunch. ”
I dunno – unless your counting the cost of having to listen to a real estate agent talking at me, those lunches at the open houses these days seem pretty free.
#143
I bought a reel mower at Lowe’s in Newton last spring.
Good for you.
kettl1,
i think you are misunderstanding my hypothetical system. the poor and middle class and rich all have the same amount of money for my hypothetical school system. if you can afford then you can just pay cash to have your child go to pingry. but otherwise, the money follows your child.
The purpose of such a system is to allow choice. if montassori is your flavor of choice, great, catholic school, fantastic, etc.
So if you choose to “pay cash” to go to the public school, you loose the voucher amount?
I don’t see how I’m confused. If the voucher is for $5000, and snob hill costs $20,000, it seems obvious the rich will send their kids to snob hill school, and presumably pay the extra $15,000. The poor can’t afford that, so they will be stuck in a public school with few and fewer funds.
It seems like the rich are getting a subsidy to send their child to snob hill school, while the education of the poor deteriorates. Or would snob hill not be approved for vouchers, and only certain charter schools qualify? The same situation would seem to apply in this case, unless the charter schools are not allowed to accept additional money from the parents.
that should be “pay cash” to go to the private school.
seperation of church and state means that the government does not mandate the acceptance or rejection of any given religion. if a catholic or bhuddist or hindu or islamic school teaches the same academic material to the same standards as a public school, then what difference does it make? if a school can demonstrate that it teaches an accepted course of academics at the appropriate standards then the “theme” of the school should only be the parents concern.
160 Patient
I’ll make you a deal. If you take me with you and you can keep up with me on the hand grenades, I’ll watch the little Patients.
Actually, I’d watch them no matter what. :)
“America, land of the free and home of the brave is under attack. A scourge has descended upon us that could affect every American that drives his humble SUV from sea to shining sea. Across the nation at gas pumps on almost every corner in the nation gas prices are soaring! The fallout from this plague should be striking fear and panic or at the very least just good old fashion worry in our red, white and blue, petrol pumping hearts. Are you worried about the impact that high gasoline prices might be have on our country, our universe and oh, yeah, our economy? Well if your not, you should be!”
http://www.energiesexpert.com/archives/article.php?id=402
115 kettle
I agree about pingry, but not the rest of that post. I won’t drag that discussion out here – we can hash that one out at the next GTG, but the short version is that, where education is concerned, IMO if the primary motivation of the education provider is to turn a profit, you’re not going to get a very good education.
“keep up with me on the hand grenades”
ruh roh!
164 hobokenite.
In my example any school that accepts vouchers may not accept any other payments. so for your snob hill example, if snob hill accepts cash then they may not accept vouchers and the only way to go there is to pay 20K cash.
and also, the average voucher would be around 15K as that is what the average public school spends per student.
in this scenario the people who attend snob hill would not change as the middle and lower class students were not going to snob hill before and will still not go.
106 john
“Good thing you did not mention Park Bench cause that was my college hang out bar in stony brook.”
heh – Mine in grad school as well.
patient,
look forward to the next GTG to discuss this, should be interesting
Because most religious schools mandate religious teaching of some kind. Vouchers will at a minimum force religious segregration. And don’t tell me that religious teachings should be optional. It’s all well and good until your kid has to attend a local muslim (pick your religion) school because the public school closed and everything else it too far to drive.
101 ‘soosh
tantalizing!
167 ket
I think as a matter of current Con Law theory that’s technically wrong, but I think what’s more relevant is that “if a catholic or bhuddist or hindu or islamic school teaches the same academic material to the same standards as a public school” is a fact predicate that will simply never occur. That’s not the business religious schools are in. They’re in the business of being religious schools.
Please note, despite the appearance, these New York Wall Street are not in NYC or in the financial services sector…..
WSJ
London May Have a Leg Up Wall Street Stands to Suffer More Losses in Credit Crunch; Where the Action Is Still Hot
May 2, 2008; Page C14
Michael Bloomberg, New York City’s billionaire mayor, worried last year that London might overtake the Big Apple as the world’s financial center.
Some thought it already had — partly because London’s capital pool seemed comparably deep and liquid, pushing stock issuance and the volume of mergers-and-acquisitions activity in Europe ahead of the U.S. The trans-Atlantic shift in London’s favor could be accelerated by the credit crunch. At least in terms of job losses in investment banking, Wall Street stands to suffer more than London’s City.
Of course, before long there will be plenty of bankers and other financial whizzes wandering the streets of both cities with pink slips pinned to their pinstripes. Early forecasts suggest roughly 20,000 securities-related job cuts in each metropolis. It is hard to see how the figures won’t be revised higher. Just two companies — Bear Stearns, now in J.P. Morgan Chase’s embrace, and ABN Amro, recently acquired by Royal Bank of Scotland and others — are expecting at least 7,000 layoffs each.
Wall Streeters are at greater risk for several reasons. For one thing, even though British and European banks have suffered subprime-mortgage-related woes, the actual home loans were originated by U.S. counterparts and mostly packaged up by bankers with views of the Hudson or the East River, not the Thames. Similarly in leveraged finance, a much bigger chunk of U.S. deal volume depended on private-equity buyouts.
Second, areas where the action remains hot tilt toward London. Both cities will benefit from resilience in commodities, currencies, interest rates and prime brokerage. But the Russian mining groups looking to go public and Middle Eastern government investment funds spending their petrodollars are more likely to turn to the City.
Finally, many U.S. investment banks already were relocating some division heads and other top brass to London from New York. That process could pick up pace, meaning those on Wall Street who don’t get the sack might have to pack — leaving yet more empty desks in Gotham.
i will leave the school debate for the next GTG…….
66
“Why shouldn’t these homes be counted, because they are selling for less they “don’t count”.?”
Exactly. Same reason short sales don’t count – it’s called a mulligan.
If you don’t like the numbers, you just massage them a bit until they feel better.
kettle1 (171),
That makes more sense. My $5k was just an example.
My head hurts, just sat through a ISO/IEC 27002:2005 meeting. Back to RE.
BC,
NFP less Birth Death
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/05/02/nfp_bd_2.gif
Hat tip to Big Picture
161: Wilkes-Barre, PA. I also spent a strange summer in Carbondale, PA.
infant is… hungry. and growing. all you can ask for, really, at this stage. :) big brother is taking it all fairly well. has stopped running out of the room every time the baby cries; now he just claps his hands over his ears and suggests the baby needs to nurse. he’s usually right. :)
65 twice shy
“It can (and does) happen here — even in Brigadoon.”
You, me and Mrs. Patient, Steve the Brigadoonian and maybe Ray (can’t remember?) and any other Brigadooniators could have a mini GTG at the Jolley Trolley and see if Reech shows up.
Peter Schiffs weekly newsletter,
Ben Bernanke is no Paul Volcker
With what many have described as a flash of monetary discipline worthy of Paul Volcker, Ben Bernanke reduced short-term interest rates this week to a mere 2%, apparently turning a deaf ear to those on Wall Street who wanted more. But now that the dollar-crushing side effects of cheap money are widely understood, there is, in reality, little pressure remaining for steely-eyed Ben to resist.
Excuse me, but I knew Paul Volcker. Paul Volcker was a friend of mine (well, not really), and Ben Bernanke is no Paul Volcker. The dominant spin that bubbled up after the Fed statement held that since no more rate cuts were hinted at, the Fed has effectively sounded the economic all clear, and that its attention would now shift to inflation and the weak dollar. As a result, the dollar rallied and gold, oil, and other commodities fell sharply.
Even if the Fed has really paused (which the statement does not necessarily suggest), a 2% Fed funds rate is still ridiculously low. Given that even the official measures of inflation are well above that level, to say nothing of the actual rate, how can anyone believe that current policy will engender a strong dollar? To restore real strength to the greenback the Fed would have to raise rates substantially, something they are very unlikely to do. Although some marvel at our economy’s resilience, given how much of this strength is a function of leverage and debt, high interest rates are the economic equivalent of kryptonite. In other words, it’s the ultimate Catch-22. Unlike when Paul Volcker came to town, there is now nothing the Fed can do to prevent the dollar from falling.
While the Fed may pay lip service to being vigilant on inflation, their actions suggest otherwise. Before the ink on their supposedly hawkish statement had dried, the Fed announced additional measures to supply even more liquidly (create more inflation) by expanding its term auction facilities and allowing bonds backed by student, auto and credit card loans to be pledged as collateral.
The Fed continues to claim that should inflation not come down as it currently forecasts, it would then stand ready to act aggressively. However, that is exactly what the Fed has been saying for at least the last five years. By emphasizing how core inflation remains controlled, the Fed continues to thumb its nose at consumers struggling with spiraling food and energy costs. Despite years of busted forecasts, its confidence in lower inflation is once again based on its belief that commodity prices have peaked. They haven’t. No matter how often the Fed cries wolf, it somehow manages to maintain credibility.
In reality, the fundamentals for the U.S. dollar have never been worse and we are as close to an outright dollar crises as we have ever been. Those looking for a reversal in the dollar’s trajectory, or like our friend Larry Ludlow states, a return to “King Dollar”, are living in a fairy tale. In fact, just yesterday the name “Goldilocks” made a number of appearances on CNBC.
The consensus on Wall Street seems to be that high commodity prices mainly result from speculation, much of it tied to the weak dollar. Now that the dollar is expected to strengthen, those traders naturally believe that commodities will lose their appeal. In fact, yesterday CNBC’s Erin Burnett stated that oil prices no longer trade on fundamentals, but simply on movements in the dollar. Pardon me Mrs. Burnett, but nothing is more fundamental to the price of oil, or of anything for that matter, than the value of the dollar.
For all of the talk about speculators driving commodity prices, for once Wall Street may be right. Speculators are now driving the market, but it’s the shorts that are behind the wheel. In contrast, the underlying bull market in commodities has always been driven by the fundamentals, including of course the most inflationary monetary policy in world history. Sure some speculators have gone along for the ride, but they have clearly been riding in the back seat. However, the most recent correction is being driven by speculators who, lacking any real understanding of the fundamentals, are trying to profit from what they wrongly believe to be the bursting of a bubble. However, once the shorts have piled on, look out, as the next rally will be spectacular. Not only will it be driven by real physical and investment demand, but by the mother of all short-covering. Got gold?
I got it. I got it. I got it.
184 alia
glad to hear it
My ancestors on the US side are all from either the Schnecksville region of PA, nearish to Wilkes Barre (and named after great great great etc. grandpa Albert Schneck) and Bunker Hill, WV, where Grandpa Patient as a young boy used to charge out-of-towners a nickel to show them where the battle was fought.
http://blownmortgage.com/2008/05/02/countrywide-closes-16-wholesale-fulfillment-centers-in-consolidation-move/
CFC closes(migrates)16 fulfilmant centers in the name of consolidation.
I love the word “Migrate”.
Tomorrow you’ll hear Thain say “with a simple gesture of handing out pink slips we were able to migrate our workforce from our payroll to the federal one”. (unemployment of course)
Can I include CDOs in the weekly Friday Fitch Mortgage Downgradefest? We’re way past a billion, it’s Friday!
Fitch Downgrades $294.2MM of Duke Funding X CDO, Ltd./Corp.
Fitch Downgrades $1.97BN from Duke Funding High Grade III Ltd.
Fitch Affirms $683.2MM & Downgrades $106.3MM from 10 ABFC Subprime Transactions
Fitch Downgrades $413.1MM from C-BASS CBO XIV Ltd.
Anyone have any info on the status of 8 Wellesley in Montclair? Just fell off the mls today… was asking $674k…
184 njpatient
Would love to, but the beautiful Mrs. RayC is due any day now with our second child. She can handle a lot, but I don’t think she would put up with having to watch others drink Guinness as she sips her seltzer.
JB [183],
I call, phone, the BLS sporadically. I am shocked that nobody can tell me where these jobs are being created.
How’s this for our crackerjack govt;
“Birth death factors are a component of the not seasonally adjusted estimate and therefore are not directly comparable to the seasonally adjusted monthly changes. Instead, the birth/death factor should be assessed in the context of its effect on the not seasonally adjusted estimate… The components are not seasonally adjusted separately because they do not have particular economic meaning in and of
themselves.”
No particular meaning? Can’t be compared? YIKES!
Theo,
UC
So what, St. John’s is a catholic university and the majority of students are not catholic and they love it their. Nine credits of religion is mandatory. But if you are jewish, hindu, muslim etc. you can take religous class based on your own religion and even if you don’t practice a religion their are courses on the general origins and history of organized religion.
Religion is a big part of peoples lives and should be a part of education. Ramming your religion on someone is wrong, but teaching about religion is ok.
NNJ Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Re: Because most religious schools mandate religious teaching of some kind.
“we were able to migrate our workforce from our payroll to the federal one”
make,
Which category, unemployed, part time, discouraged, displaced or marginally attached?
The FT had an article today about Apollo Group now paying in-kind instead of cash for its Realogy buyout debt. Realology is Century 21, ERA, Coldwell Banker, and Sotheby’s International Realty.
Apollo bought Realogy for 8.75 billion less than a year ago. My BS sensor went off on these quotes from Leon Black: “We factored a substantial downturn in our original investment thesis and believe once the housing market rebounds, Realogy will benefit.”
I would say, what the last life boat left the tittanic already?
Here is the Realogy article
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4b1065a4-17e5-11dd-b98a-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1
191 Ray
CONGRATULATIONS!! Great news!
Give my best to the missus.
We can always do it after, you know. Two points for: (1) Guiness helps let your milk down and (2) Mrs. Patient and I can give you a break holding the baby. All kidding aside, best wishes for the birth!
How about this?
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/images/2008/05/02/total_household_employed.png
Sean,
It would be a terrible loss if Realogy were allowed to fail.
I wonder if the Realtor lobby took a road trip up to the NY Fed yet.
Word on the street is that Yun is going to ask the Fed if they’ll take listing contracts as collateral at the window.
194 john
I don’t want to pay taxes for the purpose of teaching religion; it’s irrelevant to me which religion or whether it makes the student happy to be so taught.
If someone wants to get a job, earn some money, and pay for a religious education, I’m totally fine with that (which I can prove, because that’s what I’m doing).
Sigh.
left out of half the conversations on the board yet again.
194, big difference between Religious Universities and Religious Schools. Kids are a lot more impressionable than college students.
Somebody brought up the nickname “Slummit” the other day. Anyone know what elementary school district that covers in the town?
I may want to factor that into my decision if I go w/ a house in Summit.
njpatient #185 Says:
Yeah, RayC is another poster from Westfield who usually provides some good insights.
I’m not sure Jolly Trolley is the sort of establishment Richard would patronize, but for a GTG he might be willing to mingle with the hoi polloi.
Fitch taking the axe to CDOs today..
http://fitchratings.com/corporate/events/press_releases_detail.cfm?pr_id=419209
$776 million in AAA downgraded to BB
$78 million of AAA downgraded to CCC
$50 million of AAA downgraded to CC (Oops!)
Monterey has a portfolio comprised primarily of subprime residential mortgage-backed securities (RMBS) bonds 45.54%, Alternative-A (Alt-A) RMBS 19.95%, structured finance (SF) CDOs 26.19%, prime RMBS 4.06%, and other structured finance assets. Subprime RMBS bonds of the 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007 vintages account for approximately 0.52%, 39.69%, 4.94%, and 0.39% of the portfolio, respectively. The SF CDO exposure includes SF CDO originated in 2003 and 2004 16.25%, 2005 7.73%, 2006 1.95% and 2007 0.26%. Alt-A RMBS of the 2005 and 2006 vintages represent 15.52% and 4.43%, respectively.
Fitch’s rating actions reflect the significant collateral deterioration within the portfolio, specifically subprime RMBS, Alt-A RMBS, and SF CDOs with underlying exposure to subprime RMBS.
Bystander (last thread)
“The Del McCoury Band is phenomenal..if you like bluegrass. Either way, you will not find better musicians on the planet.”
I like bluegrass, and that’s my favorite band. Their skills are absolutely through the roof.
And there’s a great quote from the song “Man Can’t Live On Bread Alone” that’s apropos these days – I’ll post tonight (can’t find the lyrics online).
And no, the subtitle of the song is not “(He Needs Wine, Too)”.
Hey chicago this might be a good bond for your yield chasing client.
SOVEREIGN BANCORP INC 4.80000% 09/01/2010 SR NT Price (Ask) 92.000 Yield to Worst (Ask) 8.681%
RayC [191],
Didn’t see your post above when I replied to njpatient.
Congrats! Another young C to jam into the new “early learning center” now under construction. Best of luck.
All these CDO downgrades. Any idea where the other agencies have them rated? Is Fitch ahead or behind the curve?
Good point, you mean if we only thought mainstream religions in school we might not have jihadists, jehovas, polygmists, christian scientists etc. as we might actually influence them at a young age to be law abiding god fearing people. OMG. I would not want my tax dollars doing that.
NNJ Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:50 pm
194, big difference between Religious Universities and Religious Schools. Kids are a lot more impressionable than college students.
211… nnnngg, must… restrain…. self…
njpatient, shall we discuss how wonderful our children are? what’s the cutest thing the little patients have done lately?
From Bloomberg:
Countrywide Rating Cut to `Junk’ By Standard & Poor’s
Countrywide Financial Corp.’s credit rating was unexpectedly cut below investment grade by Standard & Poor’s Corp., which cited doubt about whether Bank of America Corp. will back the home lender’s debt after they merge.
The revision reflects “the new level of uncertainty as to the ultimate legal status of Countrywide’s creditors” after the lender’s sale to Bank of America, Standard & Poor’s said in a statement today. Prices on instruments that protect investors from a Countrywide default made their biggest jump in almost four months.
211, you are stupid.
It wasn’t enough that the fed, for the first time, accepts mbs as collateral. Somehow you just knew it would not stop there. Now they extend their TAF to include AAA/Aaa-rated asset backed securities.
The fed can flood the system with liquidity. However, they can not control currency pairs, nor control the dollar’s purchasing power. We, consumers, corporations, the govt, owe more dollars to the rest of the world than ever before. It is a keg of dynamite, can explode at any time. What occurs if foreigners say enough? Forget about dumping their current holdings. How about they just walk away, tell us to stuff our good faith and credit?
Where do we then turn for our $2 Billion a day fix? Does Bergabe have an answer for this?
209 twice shy
Thanks, but we have an “early learning center” in-house. It’s called a tool box and whatever dad is trying to fix is interrupted by “Let me do it!”. Jobs take longer, but they are very entertaining.
215 BC Bob
i bet our pharma companies could out produce columbia and mexico if they really wanted to. Make the people of the world happy!!!! for a price! of course we also have an awful lot of weapons to sell and people are dying to get their hands on the new F-22 raptor
Can someone please give me the status of 71 Montlclair Ave in Montclair? UC or withdrawn?
[216] RayC
and very instructional. The Nom-ette is rather insistent about doing everything herself. Means that the dog’s water bowl routinely overflows, but it is a learning experience.
[212] alia,
Cute moment of the day–4 y/o Nom-ette is getting into the car, stops, turns, and says “Daddy, we didn’t brush our teeth” (meaning her, I had brushed but forgot to help her in the morning rush). Needless to say, work and preschool arrivals were delayed slightly.
How many kids does NJ patent have now? Congrats to the new additon to your brood and increasing your carbon footprint!!
Hey NNJ sorry I offended you, I did not know you were one of those pamplet guys I see in the subway.
[185] Patient,
By Brigadoon, I gather you meant Westfield (at least in this instance).
I am u/c on a house in Westfield. Spouse Deplume reports that Wells extorted last minute terms on a co-worker’s mortgage in Westfield because “prices were declining” there (at closing, the buyers were told to pony up another 5% of the purchase themselves or agree to an additional 1/4 point).
FWIW, I don’t know whether to credit Wells insight on the market or their brazeness in handling borrowers. I think it is the latter as this revelation came on top of my recent experience with the Wells loan officer who, not knowing I used to represent banks, kept blowing smoke up my a$$ about why the rates were going to be higher than initially reported. The emails got comical as I kept punching holes in her explanations, and she kept changing them in response.
Think I will wait about a month or so before I inform her that I went with another institution.
It wasn’t enough that the fed, for the first time, accepts mbs as collateral. Somehow you just knew it would not stop there. Now they extend their TAF to include AAA/Aaa-rated asset backed securities.
The fed can flood the system with liquidity. However, they can not control currency pairs, nor control the dollar’s purchasing power. We, consumers, corporations, the govt, owe more dollars to the rest of the world than ever before. It is a keg of dynamite, can explode at any time. What occurs if foreigners say enough? Forget about dumping their current holdings. How about they just walk away, tell us to stuff our good faith and credit?
Where do we then turn for our $2 Billion a day fix? Does Bergabe have an answer for this?
BC,
Stop making sense. I can see Bergabe and Paulson during a Senate hearing saying that none could have seen this coming.
Then Ron Paul says” Liar, liar pants on fire.”
This will make the Japanese lost decade look like a walk in the park.
[204] Hard Place
I mentioned Slummit (Spouse’s office is there) and we looked in summit extensively before making an offer in Westfield. There are several elem. sch. districts, and they do vary.
I can give you insights off line. nom_deplume@justice.com
#224 Summit elementary schools.
I thought Summit was building 1 major elementary schoold for the entire district and shutting down the three elementary schools? One of my co-workers lives in Summit and mentioned this to me a few months ago.
214 NNJ
I was going to engage on the merits, but your approach is probably more efficient.
223 make,
The american lost century?
Anybody else in need? They not only opened the window, the whole barn is presently open. Bergabe had planted the seed, the spring rains have now arrived. And they had the gullible believe that the fed was independent. I can’t wait to hear Volcker’s take on this one.
“A month after the Federal Reserve rescued Bear Stearns Cos. from bankruptcy, Chairman Ben S. Bernanke got an S.O.S. from Congress. ”
“There is “a potential crisis in the student-loan market” requiring “similar bold action,” Chairman Christopher Dodd of Connecticut and six other Democrats wrote Bernanke. They want the Fed to swap Treasury notes for bonds backed by student loans. In a separate letter, Pennsylvania Democratic Representative Paul Kanjorski and 31 House members said they want Bernanke to channel money directly to education-finance firms.”
“It is appalling where we are right now, former St. Louis Fed President William Poole, who retired in March, said in an interview. The Fed has introduced “a backstop for the entire financial system.”
“The Fed’s loans to Bear Stearns were “a rogue operation,” said Anna Schwartz, who co-wrote “A Monetary History of the United States” with the late Nobel laureate Milton Friedman.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a1ctn1Xfq5Do&refer=home
220 John
“How many kids does NJ patent have now? Congrats to the new additon to your brood and increasing your carbon footprint!!”
You are daft, man. You can’t seem to keep track of what’s going on around you for more than 5 minutes. I’d think you were a stoner if I didn’t already know that you’re a cranky Goldwaterite.
Thanks for congratulating me on RayC’s new kid, but all the credit goes to RayC.
222 Nom de Guerre
“Think I will wait about a month or so before I inform her that I went with another institution.”
Nice!
Just overheard two nine year old girls talking about —- the evils of credit card debt and how they will always use real money to pay for things.
lisoosh, c’mon. At least tell us what town it’s in?
“Thanks for congratulating me on RayC’s new kid, but all the credit goes to RayC.”
patient,
LOL.
re: (228) BC Bob
Those poor poor students what will they do now? Mom and Dad can’t borrow against the equity in their home because there is none, and few jobs pay much more than minimum wage for someone out of high school, (other than pole dancing and hooking).
excerpt…Bernanke said in the letter to Dodd, a Democrat from Connecticut. “The fact that a number of lenders have exited this market in recent months suggests that lending to students is not, under current circumstances, profitable.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=apY5ZNyB4iNE
Blood, I’m still getting you cleaner contact info-missed this week’s connection and need to get the e-mail address next week.
Only problem is one of the good cleaning people is moving to the Poconos, and the other speaks Polish and a little Russian, and my Russian is rusty. The only thing I can say in Polish is Swiety, Swiety, Swiety, Pan Bog Zastpow. We’ll try.
re:143 real goods catalog
Looks like they’ve reduced the asking rent for the condo in my building again. Still way more than what I’m paying.
Sean [233],
The dead beats won’t pay, not to worry. The fed will trade. The top tranche of a subprime currency for the bottom tranche of crap. Losses will be redistributed to the dollar. Everybody’s pocket will continue to get picked. One day, it will all come home to roost. Hopefully, my passport will be stamped before the s*it hits the fan.
[230] NJP
Nasty, I know, but she really pissed me off!
NomDeP [222],
Good luck with your close and welcome to Westfield if you aren’t here already.
Since we have a mini-Brigadoon thread going here and I have a few minutes I’m going to provide a short update on our status.
We’re out of the market for a year or so, but obviously I still follow it closely out of habit. We decided to wait until after our daughter graduates HS because we’ll have more options then to pursue. We might even move out of state, but only to NY state, maybe White Plains or (gasp) Staten Island. Or we might look to buy in Cranford or continue to rent.
Hard to believe Westfield is now officially flagged as a “declining” market, at least as far as Wells is concerned. Those kind of tactics remind me why I hate banks. We have the FFR at 2%! and 30-year fixed rates are still over 6% with good credit and now they want another 5% down? I’d be tempted to walk.
Lowball guidance / pep talk needed!
I’m going out this weekend to see condos with an eye towards making offers if I like what I see. I’ve looked up the purchase prices of the units, recent sales, and checked DOM to see who’s sweating. I know I’m going to “insult the seller” when I make my offer.
Does anyone here have any guidance on how to lowball to get the seller to capitulate to my price? Or is it more art than science? Or all bets off in this market?
Sean [223],
Hilarious.
Bergabe rebuffs them yesterday, caves today. You can make this crap up. Forget about Socgen, Bergabe is the quintessential rogue trader.
J&J moving Ortho Biotech HQ from Bridgewater: 150 to lose jobs
BRIDGEWATER —BRIDGEWATER: About 150 jobs will be eliminated at the world headquarters of Ortho Biotech Products, which will also relocate from its Somerset County location to a facility in Horshsam, Pa.
Johnson & Johnson announced those cuts Wednesday as it also reported that about 400 Ortho Biotech Products jobs would be eliminated nationwide by the end of the year.
A company spokesman would not say how many other Ortho Biotech employees could be affected by the move to Pennsylvania.
BC,
I tried posting that a couple of hours ago and it didn’t go through. This economy is in a world of hurt if they are taking that junk now. Bergabe has essentially confirmed that it is no longer a dead-housing story, its a dead-consumer story.
just saw this add on the CR blog
Haven’t saved for retirement? No problem,
these secret “801(k) Plans”—which have no age, income, or employment requirements—pay up to 1,000% – 2,000% more than 401(k)s or IRAs. But it’s unlikely you’ve ever heard about these special programs before: The U.S. government doesn’t allow them to be advertised to the general public.
how many boomers are jumping on this now that the housing market has crashed
Buffet is going to announce big buy out plans this weekend and he is putting cash to work, we should have a good day monday, the consumer will take that extra cash in their 401K and lower oil prices and their rebate checks and we will have a good summer. Who cares if we will be broke by Labor Day
So the dead beats took out a loan, from someone in China who earns $2 a hour, to sit and stare at their new granite countertops that they could never afford. They had absolutely no chance of repaying this. They knew it, the lender knew it. In addition to this, they sucked out bogus equity to lease a SUV that they can’t afford to drive. Furthermore, they ran up their cc’s to put gas in their SUV and pay for the food that they can not afford.
Are they actually smarter than we give them credit for? Did they play Bergabe like a harp?
#5 I just got online and have not seen any other posts after yours, so others may have already said this, but, I would STRONGLY urge you to take the 20, and even then, in the early years anyway, pay the following way: in addition to each month’s payment also send the next month’s principal payment. You can figure it out from the am schedule. You will save a bundle more that the amount you “save” in the 30-year loan payments.
We need to bring back debtors prison.
One Guy Who Has Seen It All
Doesn’t Like What He Sees Now
By E.S. BROWNING
April 26, 2008; Page B1
Peter Bernstein has witnessed just about every financial crisis of the past century.
As a boy, he watched his father, a money manager, navigate the Depression. As a financial manager, consultant and financial historian, he personally dealt with the recession of 1958, the bear markets of the 1970s, the 1987 crash, the savings-and-loan crisis of the late 1980s and the 2000-2002 bear market that followed the tech-stock bubble.
[Peter Bernstein]
One of Peter Bernstein’s worries: ‘If China goes into a recession, God knows.’
Today’s trouble, the 89-year-old Mr. Bernstein says, is worse than he has seen since the Depression and threatens to roil markets into 2009 and beyond — longer than many people expect.
continued
http://tinyurl.com/4tnrfe
http://www.bankrate.com/bos/news/mtg/20080501-lowball-offers-a1.asp
BC,
My friend you’re having a bad day. Why don’t you go home and get drunk. Make sure ALL you money is non US dollar denominated assets.
Not some of it but ALL of it. We could be months away from the collpase of the dollar. We all know it’s coming we just don’t know the timing.
If the central banks of the worls keep the credit game party going until Oct I’ll be amased.
Patient/Pat –
Didn’t mean to be cryptic, just realized that there are tons of lurkers here outwith the usual commenters.
Averagel house in Anytown NJ. Not exactly what I was looking for but it surprised me by being much, much better value than it’s competitors. Turns out the house was originally listed over a year ago for 50% more than its 2004 purchase price. They have followed the market down and is now at 10% LESS than 2004. Don’t know about issues, but it appears to be in much better shape than its competitors.
As I mentioned, not really what I wanted, BUT at a price that is interesting enough to warrant a second look. Then again, could be a harbinger of a coming tsunami in price drops, which would suggest much better and more suitable deals around the corner. Anything bought in the near future has to be home for a considerable amount of time, so the more suitable the house the better.
hehe [243],
I had this issue, [student loans, cc, auto] in the back of my head. I said no way, nobody would actually loot/debase/fleece the American currency by accepting this collateral. Especially someone in a fiduciary capacity. Bergabe is worse than Arthur Burns. He succumbs to politician’s and panics with a little stock market volatility. He should be toppled.
njpatient #207..just saw Ricky Skaggs and Bruce Hornsby…awesome
make [251],
I dove back in today.
to play conspiracy theorist for a moment…
the timing on war with iran could be convenient as one of the recent bills passed by congress allows the president to suspend elections due to war or other national emergency….
In May 2007, Bush issued a major presidential National Security Directive (National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive NSPD 51/HSPD 20), which would suspend constitutional government and instate broad dictatorial powers under martial law in the case of a “Catastrophic Emergency” [note: the nature of a “catastrophic emergency is undefined and left to the president’s discretion; clearly it could be either an outside attack or a natural disaster
LONDON — The U.S. military has drafted and won approval for attack plans ir response to an Iran attack.
Western diplomatic sources said the U.S. military’s Central Command has submitted plans for an air and naval strike on Iran, Middle East Newsline reported. The sources said the plan envisioned escalating tensions that would peak with an Iranian-inspired insurgency strike against U.S. military assets in the Gulf.
Meanwhile, on April 29, a second American aircraft carrier, USS Abraham Lincoln, steamed into the Gulf in what officials termed a show of force. They said the U.S. Navy plans to withdraw a carrier group, USS Harry S. Truman, from the region.
bairen,
Only 1 elementary school in Summit? I didn’t know that. Thanks for the headsup. That would take away any premium for choosing one of the houses in the nicer area of town even though it’s smaller to be in a certain school district. Is this already in the works? Any idea on the timeline? Might have to do some research on that.
Nom,
I’ll have to email you when I get home tonight. Thks!
Hehehe Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 4:54 pm
“We need to bring back debtors prison.”
I would agree but that would cost the rest of us even more.
How about putting debtors to work every weekend fixing roads, cleaning the streets, beautifying urban neighbourhoods and tutoring disadvantaged kids with their free labor?
259,
does that include the US congress? how about the investment banks ( bear stearns and friends)?
kettle,
this is just crazy. Unbelivable!!!!
I’ve got a beef with these deadbeats period. I have some in my own family. I don’t care if they have a white or blue collar.
238 Nom
I was speaking with approval!
239 twice
“We’re out of the market for a year or so, but obviously I still follow it closely out of habit.”
Same here.
kettle [256],
I buy it. I would actually be surprised if we didn’t.
We are continuing to add to our strategic petroleum reserve. Now you can say that the Bush Adm is flowing with market experts, buying crude as it continues its march higher. They have the foresight to to add crude, based on market fundamentals. On the other hand, you can say that they are a bunch of market related idiots. There is some ulterior motive.
IMO, they don’t have the crude market pegged.
LONDON — The U.S. military has drafted and won approval for attack plans ir response to an Iran attack.
Western diplomatic sources said the U.S. military’s Central Command has submitted plans for an air and naval strike on Iran, Middle East Newsline reported. The sources said the plan envisioned escalating tensions that would peak with an Iranian-inspired insurgency strike against U.S. military assets in the Gulf.
The US military probably has plans to attack every country in the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Orange
See also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Red
252 ‘soosh
I was just giving you a hard time.
Anxiously awaiting Friday’s writedowns.
Looking through the press releases, looks like close to $5 billion from Fitch today (including CDOs). Bulk appears to be AAA.
#257 Hard Place,
I googled it and couldn’t find any info on Summit going down to one elementary school. Maybe it’s still in discussion? Maybe it’s just a rumor. I don’t know, but if you are thinking about buying in Summit I’d definitely look into it.
Found the link for Summit’s Board of Ed.
http://www.summit.k12.nj.us/sps/board/budget2008-09.html
You could give them a call and find out.
http://www.NaturalNews.com/023124.html
It’s interesting
SAS
Affordability for NYC market (from houseing tracker). Note the huge jump (and subsequent increase) from Q1 ’03:
Yr-qtr %income
to buy home
2007-3Q 55.7%
2007-2Q 54.6%
2007-1Q 53.9%
2006-4Q 53.9%
2006-3Q 55.3%
2006-2Q 55.0%
2006-1Q 52.6%
2005-4Q 52.7%
2005-3Q 48.7%
2005-2Q 47.2%
2005-1Q 46.0%
2004-4Q 45.3%
2004-3Q 45.3%
2004-2Q 44.3%
2004-1Q 40.9%
2003-4Q 45.5%
2003-3Q 43.6%
2003-2Q 40.5%
2003-1Q 41.3%
2002-4Q 34.3%
2002-3Q 34.3%
2002-2Q 35.1%
2002-1Q 34.5%
2001-4Q 34.9%
2001-3Q 34.8%
2001-2Q 34.4%
2001-1Q 33.2%
source:
http://www.housingtracker.net/affordability/new-york/new-york
[242] 2xshy,
Thanks. I am moving to a temp house in Westfield on the 12th (corp-paid temp housing ran out, and we are probably having a 2nd fl put on the new house). If there is a Brigadoon GTG, I will have to attend.
If you are close to exiting the school system, I see no reason to buy. I have a 4.9 year old ready for K next fall, which means a 12 year min. horizon, so that is why I am putting down roots. I chose Westfield b/c it seemed far and away best for raising children, and having the Raritan line was important for me (office is next to NWK-Penn). If you aren’t schooling a child, no need to pay into the system (but if you want to, I appreciate it). Fact is, if I did not have her to think of, I probably would not be buying there, or buying right now. I am concerned that the market has farther to fall, but it is a train town and I have 12-15 years.
thats [240] 2x shy
#109 Rich Thanks as always.
#109 Rich Thanks as always.
Nom Deplume [274],
You’ve made a good choice. With a 12-year time frame you’ll come out fine. Westfield is a great town to raise a family and we’ve enjoyed living here. At our stage of life, we need to consider prospective college costs and perhaps buying in a more affordable town or one with a better commute to mid-town.
If money were no object I’d stay here indefinitely.
Spam – the scourge of every e-mail inbox – celebrates its 30th anniversary this weekend.
The first recognisable e-mail marketing message was sent on 3 May, 1978 to 400 people on behalf of DEC – a now-defunct computer-maker.
The message was sent via Arpanet – the internet’s forerunner – and won its sender much criticism from recipients.
Thirty years on, spam has grown into an underground industry that sends out billions of messages every day.
Statistics gathered by the FBI suggest that 75% of net scams snare people through junk e-mail. In 2007 these cons netted criminals more than $239m (£121m).
Statistics suggest that more than 80%-85% of all e-mail is spam or junk and more than 100 billion spam messages are sent every day.
The majority of these messages are being sent via hijacked home computers that have been compromised by a computer virus.
Quick complaint
The sender of the first junk e-mail message was Gary Thuerk and it was sent to advertise new additions to DEC’s family of System-20 minicomputers.
It invited the recipients, all of whom were on Arpanet and lived on the west coast of the US, to go to one of two presentations showing off the capabilities of the System-20.
Reaction to the message was swift, with complaints reportedly coming from the US Defense Communications Agency, which oversaw Arpanet, and took Mr Thuerk’s boss to task about it.
Despite Mr Thuerk’s pioneering spam it took many years for unsolicited commercial e-mail to become a nuisance.
It took until 1993 before it won the name of spam – a name bestowed on it by Joel Furr – an administrator on the Usenet chat system.
BC (18)-
Fed has announced the TAF will be extended forever.
Of course, this is in keeping with the dollar’s newfound strength.
grim (23)-
“Payrolls down 20k, less than expected.”
McDonald’s and Burger King must be on a hiring spree.
Liberals like you and Kettle make me laugh. Tell you what, just stop with the bellyaching and ask yourself the following question: Have we been attacked since Sept 11? No we haven’t mainly because we took the damn fight to them and we’re in the process of draining the damn terrorist swamp. Iran is next and once we deal with them, there will be peace in that entire region.
Look, we have to have contingency plans against our potential enemies just in case one of them jumps bad due to a coup or foolishness. On occasion, this means that we have to take a proactive stance and prevent something before some shlt jumps off. You liberals would rather have this nation unprepared.
Look, I don’t give a damn if you and Kettle have to close your eyes or run cowering under the bed. Do what you have to do, but just stay the hell out of the way of those who want to protect this great nation.
Hobokenite Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 5:30 pm
LONDON — The U.S. military has drafted and won approval for attack plans ir response to an Iran attack.
Western diplomatic sources said the U.S. military’s Central Command has submitted plans for an air and naval strike on Iran, Middle East Newsline reported. The sources said the plan envisioned escalating tensions that would peak with an Iranian-inspired insurgency strike against U.S. military assets in the Gulf.
The US military probably has plans to attack every country in the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Plan_Orange
Have we been attacked since Sept 11?
Yes, we have. Remember the anthrax attacks? Oh, wait… It was only those pesky liberal un-Americans who were targeted, so it doesn’t count.
282 Jay
So right
Never happened….
281 recrybaby101
You’re a riot. You pee yourself in fear every hour on the hour, hoping with every whispy little breath in your weak little body that your big strong goverment will rescue you from the horror of having to function in the real world. Instead, you want real men to hand you their tax dollars to cover your incompetence and then fly overseas to fight in a war that you somehow imagine covers YOU with glory.
I don’t think I’ve ever had a personal encounter with a weaker, more incompetent and cowardly person than you.