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From the Star Ledger:
New program aids N.J. homeowners facing foreclosure
With dire predictions that more than 60,000 New Jerseyans could face foreclosure this year, state officials rolled out a program today tapping counselors and mediators to help residents face the news and take steps to prevent losing their homes.
“It is an important step for the people of the state of New Jersey,” Gov. Jon Corzine said at a press conference. “I think it will facilitate more people staying in their homes, make this process more responsible and balanced between the borrower and the lenders.”
State officials said the program — a first in the country — could serve as a national model as foreclosures continue to flood the courts.
Attorney General Anne Milgram said subprime mortgages — loans advanced to people who don’t qualify for mainstream mortgages, usually because they have poor credit — account for a disproportionate number of foreclosures.
In the third quarter of last year, only 9 percent of mortgages were subprime but they accounted for half the foreclosures, she said. State officials anticipate some 16,000 people will take advantage of the program by calling (888) 989-5277. The hotline is staffed 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. weekdays.
…
Chief Justice Stuart Rabner said 500 of the 700 attorneys who volunteered their services since October have already been trained, and the remainder should be trained by the end of the month.
Some 40 counselors have signed up to work with homeowners in all of the state’s 21 counties, said Marge Della Vecchia, head of the New Jersey Housing and Mortgage Finance Agency.
“One of the beauties of mediation is that it can produce creative positive outcomes, the ‘win-win’ situations traditional litigation cannot always achieve,” Public Advocate Ronald Chen said.
The initiative was praised by housing and citizens’ groups who said foreclosures threaten important gains they’ve made in helping more residents become homeowners.
From the AP:
N.J. gov signs $40M anti-foreclosure measure
ov. Jon S. Corzine signed legislation Friday that provides $40 million for two programs aimed at keeping financially distressed homeowners from losing their homes to foreclosure.
The bills are part of a package of legislation proposed by Corzine in October to help New Jerseyans through what he called “the single worst economic challenge this country has faced in the last 150 years, except the Depression. … We are proactively putting in place actions on housing stabilization that are unequaled across the country as far as I could see.”
The bill allocates $25 million to a program that will help homeowners refinance first mortgages in imminent danger of foreclosure. Another $15 million will go toward a program that allows those who have been foreclosed upon to remain in their homes as tenants while saving to buy back their homes.
Corzine said the money was redirected from other programs.
The governor acknowledged the amount of money appropriated for the two programs isn’t enough to solve the problem. But he said that if some federal bailout money was redirected to foreclosure prevention and neighborhood recovery efforts, more people could be helped.
Kink is back at it, Barney is going to blow a gasket for sure.
Bush Prepares to Ask for Second Tranche of Bailout Funds
If Congress Fails to Approve Request, Administration May Use Veto Power
By David Cho and Lori Montgomery
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, January 9, 2009; 6:27 PM
Senior Bush administration officials are preparing to ask lawmakers for the second half of the $700 billion financial rescue package despite intense opposition in Congress and then have President Bush use his veto if the request is voted down, three sources familiar with the matter said.
The initiative, which is being coordinated with the Obama transition team, may be taken within days, the sources said, speaking on condition of anonymity because no announcement has been made.
Democratic Senate aides were notified in a meeting this afternoon that the request could come as soon as this weekend and that a vote could be held as soon as next week, congressional sources said.
Under the emergency rescue legislation approved by Congress in October, the administration must inform lawmakers that it wants access to the second installment of $350 billion. Unless Congress passes a resolution rejecting the request within 15 days, the Treasury can begin to tap the funds. If Congress does turn down the request, the president could veto the resolution and then the Treasury could proceed.
The plan now being crafted by the Bush administration is not finalized. By unsheathing the veto threat, the Bush administration could make it more likely that the Obama administration would get the rest of the rescue funds. Only if Congress overrides the veto would the money be blocked. A congressional source said advocates of the plan are now exploring whether there are enough votes in the Senate to sustain a veto.
“There have been discussions between the administration and the transition about how to proceed should the president-elect determine that he wants to have those funds available on January 20th,” said Robert Gibbs, spokesman for the Obama transition team. “No final decisions have been made, but we want to be ready to act if needed.”
The effort could also assure unsettled financial markets that more help is on the way.
In September, when current Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. presented the rescue proposal to Congress, the House at first voted down the plan. Global stock markets reacted by immediately plummeting. The initiative, known as the Troubled Asset Relief Program, eventually passed both chambers and was signed into law in October.
Bush officials committed nearly all of the first $350 billion to helping the financial system and bailing out individual firms, angering lawmakers on both sides of the aisle. Some were steamed that no help was forthcoming for struggling homeowners. Others were angry that the effort failed to stimulate lending.
Government sources say a majority of lawmakers on Capitol Hill now do not support handing over more rescue funds to either administration.
Paulson repeated in an interview this week that the TARP funds are needed and that he is committed to working with Obama’s team to access the second $350 billion. Treasury officials are worried that if a financial firm teetered, they have no funds left to support such a company.
Treasury Secretary nominee Timothy F. Geithner is working on ways to broaden the TARP to aid homeowners, small businesses, municipalities and other consumers.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/09/AR2009010902846.html?hpid=topnews
From NJBiz:
N.J. To Offer ‘Second Mortgages’ To Those Facing Foreclosure
The state will begin offering second-mortgage loans of up to $25,000, with no monthly payments, to homeowners in imminent danger of losing their homes to foreclosure, under a bill signed today by Gov. Jon S. Corzine. The loans are designed to reduce monthly mortgage payments to an amount that the borrower can afford, and the amount contributed by the state would be matched by the holder of the first mortgage.
The loans, to be administered by the New Jersey Housing & Mortgage Finance, would be repaid by the homeowner upon sale of the property, under the new program.
“The deep recession has caused some New Jerseyans to lose their jobs and their ability to pay their mortgages, creating the all-too-inevitable march toward foreclosure,” Corzine said.
The legislation (S-1599/A3506), called the Mortgage Stabilization and Relief Act, is a component of the governor’s Economic Assistance and Recovery Plan.
To qualify, a homeowner’s household income cannot exceed 120 percent of the area median household income or the HMFA’s mortgage program income limits, which vary by county and are as high $135,380.
On items 1 and 2
60,000 Foreclosures, $40,000,000.00 in programs works out to 666.00 in state aid per case.
That should solve all the foreclosure problems.
Grim, mark this post and save it.
Today is the day. Batten the hatches, send all the crews into the mines. Battle stations.
This thing is going down and going down hard. What I’ve been expecting- and ruefully counting on- and fearing…is now coming to pass. Anybody here who wants to write this off as anecdata? Go ahead. But do it at your own goddamned risk, and don’t blame me for not warning you.
My phone started ringing late this morning. Lawyers, old clients, friends of friends, mortgage guys, other agents…even the dad of a kid I coach.
The common inquiry? “I…a friend of mine…a client…a brother…a sister…am underwater/have no way out/am behind on payments/getting foreclosed…and need to short sell NOW!
I didn’t post all afternoon, because I’m taking incoming like a nurse in Gaza City since before noon.
I anticipate that I’ll be posting much less here in the next few weeks, as I’m looking at enough work to keep me going until June.
Again, this is from calls placed to me TODAY.
I’m not happy. I’m not thrilled. I’ve always secretly wanted to just take a hit on a declining SRS and deal with happy, shiny people wanting to do happy, shiny housing purchases and sales again.
This is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. This is it. Armageddon is nigh.
EVERYBODY OUT THERE, LISTEN UP. YOU GO DOING DUMB THINGS WITH YOUR MONEY OR THINK HOUSING HAS “BOTTOMED OUT”? YOU WILL WAKE UP BROKE AND IN BED- WITH A R@HYPNOL HANGOVER- WITH BARNEY FRANK AND THE CRIMINALS WHO HAVE ALREADY ROBBED THIS COUNTRY BLIND. THINGS ARE BAD, AND ABOUT TO GET GRAPES OF WRATH BAD. YOUR PAL NEXT DOOR CALLS YOU “WEIRD” AND “PARANOID”? FUCKING GIVE HIM A MOUTHFUL OF CHICLETS AND PROTECT YOURSELF. THE MASS IS ABOUT TO GO CRITICAL!
MODERATED @ PREVIOUS POST. SOUNDING THE ALARM!
Whoa! Post seems to have disappeared.
Grim, let me know if you don’t see it. Dire stuff.
Thank-you Clot. So this next stage into he## started this morning, like a herd suddenly moving as one? I believe it. That’s how it goes sometimes but I can’t for the life of me figure out exactly WHAT it is that triggers the herd because their behavior seems to turn on a dime.
Clot,
Two houses up from the one I rent.
Kid buys the place for asking in July of 2006, absurd price given the property. Shake my head in disbelief.
Fast forward a year, already in foreclosure, tries to list it above purchase price. No takers, obviously, the listing rots on the market. Goes short, amount too high, festers more. Listing revised, bank had given the listing agent a price they would accept a few months back, 20% under purchase price. No takers, at all. I notice a new ask today, another 10% cut, now sitting at 30% under 2006 purchase price. Takers? Not on your life, wildly overpriced in the current market.
My guess? This one will sell at closer to 50% off peak purchase price. Probably as a REO. Bank refuses to call for a Sheriff Sale, despite the fact that the place has been vacant for months. Owner? Long gone. I can understand why they don’t want to file the NOS, it’ll force them to mark this thing to market.
Down down down.
clot,
I can see your No. 6 with “grapes of wrath bad.”
someone posted earlier today that it is currently pointless the buy a house that isn’t under distress.
I couldn’t agree more. I’m just waiting to have my pick.
Colleague at work asks me to look up the asking price of his neighbors house, saw a sign go up yesterday.
Happy New Year, $70,000 less than you paid for yours.
He didn’t feel so bad, “Only $70k lower”.
…if it sells at ask.
but in Grapes Of Wrath the okies all head to Calee-forn-eye-ay. That place is in worse shape than here. Where shall we go after we pack up the gallopy?
Frank says:
January 9, 2009 at 1:30 pm
#225,
“what advice would you give my friend?”
b. Call the bank, if he truly can no longer can afford the place, the bank will cut a deal with him.
Last option is to go back to India.
typical racist bile from the resident as*clown on this site. frank must be upset that all the minorities are making more money than him, and smarter than him. poor guy. it’ll be OK frank. just work harder.
Clot –
That is some scary sh!t. Never thought that we would get a Florida like scenario in NJ.
I also wanted to lose a little money on my short positions, but it looks like I will make money in my portfolio but lose my job by the time this year is through.
Ah well – you have to play with the cards which are dealt at the table. Good luck Everyone.
VP Cheney said yesterday that no one was smart enough to see the Financial Armeggedon which was coming. That is not true, as he ignored numerous 2006 Emails warning him of such. Come to think of it, the retired GAO Director also issued the warning.
Clotpoll says:
January 9, 2009 at 7:30 pm
Grim, mark this post and save it.
Today is the day. Batten the hatches, send all the crews into the mines. Battle stations.
This thing is going down and going down hard. What I’ve been expecting- and ruefully counting on- and fearing…is now coming to pass. Anybody here who wants to write this off as anecdata? Go ahead. But do it at your own goddamned risk, and don’t blame me for not warning you.
I didn’t post all afternoon, because I’m taking incoming like a nurse in Gaza City since before noon.
This is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. This is it. Armageddon is nigh.
clot: I think we need Booya Bob here with one of his “Toys” posts……READ MY LIPS YOU SCHMUCK!
As GAO chief, Walker has warned that the government is ignoring threats to the nation’s long-term fiscal security.
“We’re headed for unprecedented rough seas that could swamp the ship of state if we don’t get serious soon,” he told the Senate Budget Committee on Jan. 29.
Walker has been praised by lawmakers from both parties for his efforts to bring attention to the issue of long-term fiscal woes.
Here’s a little old gem….
READ MY LIPS: CUT YOUR GRUBBING HOUSE PRICES FAST says:
August 31, 2007 at 3:09 pm
essex want a milkbone?
Not bad for ancient history…..good analysis…..
chicagofinance says:
November 28, 2006 at 1:39 pm
Re Citadel:
1. sorry BBB- is bottom rung investment grade at Fitch, two notches below BBB+
2. From the Bloomberg article – “Their design is to reduce their reliance on Wall Street firms for funding, which would eventually provide them with a competitive advantage because they won’t be forced into liquidation during periods of stress,”.
In other words, they rather deal with diffuse parties that wouldn’t call them on overextending counterparty risk exposure. There’s no way I would be buying at investment grade levels, I would demand a more speculative spead, or some other upside compensation.
Sounds as if they are getting greedy and going after “retail” accounts, without having to dilute their returns with their main investor funds.
Nothing less than 25% off peak 2005 says:
November 28, 2006 at 1:32 pm
“The bigger point like i said is that there are more factors than just price in determining when to buy or not.”
Like what?
Please share those reasons.
Paying the near current asking prices is writing a ticket to losses the next 5-10 years if youy have to sell your house.
READ MY LIPS…IT IS NOT A GOOD TIME TO BUY!
That’s why it makes no sense to buy a “starter” house these days. If you can find a good size 4BR colonial that you can stay in for 15-20 years, then buying today at a FAIR PRICE (30-40% below peak) might make some sense.
Q – This is what we did/are doing. Sort of. Saw a few friends buy in the last few years and get “stuck” in their nice townhouse. Not a bad thing … except it’s a townhouse.
So we decided to plunk down more cash for the house we hopefully will be in for 30 years.
the best laid plans … all that
Nothing less than 25% off peak 2005 says:
November 28, 2006 at 1:24 pm
Greedy grubbing sellers and starving realtors are beginning to shake…especially those that have stepped up to another house and have not sold existing one..Are they in for a shocker!
BOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAA
Bob
Buying in NJ is to much of a tax risk at this point. Even if you find a sound 4br home that works for you and you have 20%, the long term tax risk is huge. The state is in the hole for 100+ billion! There are only 3 ways to get that money. 1 from the Federal Gov, 2, from taxes (property), 3. massive cuts combined with the other 2.
substantial tax hikes are a certainty at this point. If 10K/yr is common now, then what happens in 2, 5, 10 years?
As has been suggested before, it is likely that your tax bill could equal or exceed your PIT.
there’s always bucks county
:)
our place just got appraised, and i’ll be damned if im not going to fight the tax bill. 3000 sq feet, nearly an acre … $7000 in taxes. that’s only $600 a month, which isn’t bad.
Nothing less than 25% off peak 2005 Says:
November 8th, 2006 at 8:37 am
Now we have the evidence to show why the NAR came out with their BS ads.
Plunging sales = lower commissions spread out among a record level or realtors.
Suck it up Realtors. The pendulm has swung the other way. More savings (if you have any) going to be burned up in the next 12 months.
IF YOU ARE A BUYER AND YOU PAY ANYWHERE NEAR ASKING YOU DESERVE THE PUMMELING YOU WILL GET AS YOUR HOUSE DEPRECIATES IN VALUE. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED NOW BY THIS BLOG AND THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA. nO FINGER POINTING FOR YOUR STUPIDITY.
BLEED’EM DRY!
BOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAA
Bob
Nothing less than 25% off peak 2005 Says:
November 8th, 2006 at 8:41 am
IF YOU ARE A GREEDY GRUBBING ‘ENTITLED” TO RICHES SELLER YOU BETTER TAKE NOTE OF THE ABOVE GRAPHS.
ACTUALLY YOU SHOULD BE FRIGGEN WORRIED!
WORRY!
LOWER YOUR FAIRY TALE PRICES AND JUST MAYBE JUST MAYBE YOU MAY BE ABLE TO SELL YOUR FAIR PRICED HOUSE. NOT A BARGAIN BUT FAIR PRICED.
LIKE AT LEAST 25% LOWER OFF OF 2005 INSANE PRICES.
THE HOUSING BUST IS PROGRESSING. LOTS OF PAIN SLEEPLESS NIGHTS AND MISERY ON THE WAY.
BOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAA
Bob
Nothing less than 25% off peak 2005 Says:
November 8th, 2006 at 8:47 am
Starve realtors Starve!
You and your grubbing buddies trashed buyers the last 3-4 years.
IT’S PAY BACK TIME.
BOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAA
Bob
Nothing less than 25% off peak 2005 Says:
November 8th, 2006 at 10:48 am
Bleed “em DRY!
Make”em Pay!
No Commish!
No MAAS to RE lalalaland propaganda..
You buy near asking, you deserve the pounding.
No crying about your misfortune here.
BOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAA
Bob
Nothing less than 25% off peak 2005 Says:
November 8th, 2006 at 2:52 pm
Housing Collapse!
Bring it on!
get it over with already.
It’s good for the economy NJ and our future.
You buy near asking uuuzzzz a fool!
BOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAA
Bob
AND HERE…..the #1 quote of all time….
Nothing less than 25% off peak 2005 Says:
November 9th, 2006 at 6:54 am
Hey VAI,
You fail to mention that house prices are unaffordable for the avg person. House price increases have far exceeded wage growth for a number of yrears and now it is starting to reverse. This correction needs to take prices on avg down about 30% from peak 2005 prices to gte them to not bargain, but fair value.
Schmucks like you come on here and talk about the past. i do NOT give a damn how well someone did buying in early 1990’s or 1980’s, times when houses traded down at more realisitic price to wage ratios.
READ MY LIPS YOU SCHMUCK…THE PRICE OF HOUSES ARE A RIPOFF AND BUYERS SHOULD BE VERY VERY VERY CAREFUL IN PAYING ANYTHING NEAR ASKING PRICES CUZ THEY WILL LOSE MONEY IF THEY HAVE TO SELL WITHIN 10 YEAR PERIOD.
SAVE YOUR MONEY IT IS MUCH MUCH CHEAPER TO RENT A HOUSE OR CONDO. IN 2 YEARS THIS WILL CHANGE PRICES OF HOUSES WILL BE DOWN AT LEAST 25-35% AND AFFORDABILITY WILL IMPROVE.
NOW FORGET THESE FAIRY TALE PRICES.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAA
Bob
http://www.amazon.com/SAS-Survival-Handbook-Survive-Climate/dp/0060578793/ref=pd_rhf_shvl_title
he wrote a book?
sl
whatever happened to Booya Bob???
anyone know?
sl
Clot, why the shock? You knew these calls would start coming. You say that you are getting requests for short sales, but when the buyers start drying up, only then can you start screaming. At that point you have to shut up shop as unless the buyer has 100% cash, you won’t get a sale.
I think out where you are, the lawyers, Pharm., Wall St and the rest of the middle to upper middle are going to face a great reverse to mean. If you can still do the short sales you still have a business. When the builders come in to start leveling developments, then you can start to scream.
Be careful what you wish for. Sold NJ home in 2005 pretty much at peak. Markets tend to overshoot. Some very nice places in south florida are down 70% from peak. Foreclosures and short sales are the market. Suprisingly re taxes have come down proportionately. That may not be possible in NJ. Best of luck and here’s hoping that NJ will not see such a severe environment.
“as I’m looking at enough work to keep me going until June.”
Clot,
Put that sheet aside and find me a silo.
People have been saying that Healthcare will be recession proof. Anyone have an clue where that is coming from. Company payrolls are down and with all the layoffs, once Cobra eats the last of the severance and savings, the number of uninsured will rise Those that do have coverage will have issues meeting deductibles and copays. The Insurance companies looking at the revenue shortfalls will start to put pressure more pressure on the doctors and hospitals and thats when you start to see the big cuts in care.
Could it be that s0cialized healthcare will be with us in a few years as the insurance companies go under.
Question for the Realtors: My in-laws from Brooklyn are under contract to sell their home and have found a home in a retirement community in Middlesex County that they want to make an offer on. Their buy-side RE agent is telling them they must write a check for $1000 refundable deposit as a “good faith gesture” along with their first offer. Their agent tells them “this is how its done in New Jersey”.
I have made a few offers to purchase a home over the past few years and I have yet to put a single dime down with my offers. My agent never once said I had to put money down as a good faith gesture. Can a Realtor please point me to the NJ Rules of Making Offers on Real Property that says a buyer has to pony up any cash?
Chi,
That’s some classic BOOYAAA.
BOOYAAA,
Time for a cameo apperance. Come out tonight.
PGC says:
January 9, 2009 at 9:42 pm
People have been saying that Healthcare will be recession proof. Anyone have an clue where that is coming from. Company payrolls are down and with all the layoffs, once Cobra eats the last of the severance and savings, the number of uninsured will rise Those that do have coverage will have issues meeting deductibles and copays. The Insurance companies looking at the revenue shortfalls will start to put pressure more pressure on the doctors and hospitals and thats when you start to see the big cuts in care.
Could it be that s0cialized healthcare will be with us in a few years as the insurance companies go under.
PGC: What happened in September & October was so devastating that it ripped the insides out of the economy. Everyone is flipping out due to the velocity that conditions changed as well as the magnitude.
The whole TARP thing can be sneered at derisively if you choose, but was required at the time regardless of the poor subsequent implementation. Even after all the gov’t steps, we are really busted. In retrospect, Lehman was a catastrophic mistake. It should have been done to Bear….
Ahh Booyah,
The cat food stuff was pretty funny as well. Who thinks he’s lurking just waiting to issue an all caps I TOLD YOU SO!
Clot:
You knew it was coming. Driving through Union today, down Morris Avenue it appeared that one in every three storefronts was vacant. BOOYAH!
#38
It is fairly standard. I had a rolling check with one agent as we had a few offers in a row. It will be held in escrow by the agent. In some cases, it will not be cashed if the lowball will not be accepted and the offer will expire.
ChiFi: Do you think for one minute that our banks are anywhere near solvent? It won’t take much of a world event (or rumor of such) to trigger a bank run and a bank holiday. Tarp might have stopped the pain in the markets, but the underlying disaster still remains. Either the banks are all insolvent due to the loans they made on RE commercial and residential or the U.S. Government owns the banks (more likely) and is getting closer and closer to insolvency by the month. The household debt, when combined with state pension obligations and federal obligations is so astounding that I’m surprised that anyone sees us as a flight to safety anymore. Heavens forbid there is another attack on our soil and the compound idea may just come to fruition. I am seriously worried about the future of our great country.
On a bright note. Earnings season starts in earnest on Monday with Alcoa. Should make for a bouncier ^vix and an increase in Maalox sales.
Am I pandering to ask what brings NYC & environs back if Wall St as we know it is in the process of being dismantled?
As the economic engine of the region (amounting to, what, 25% of the total payroll of the city?), if its is experiencing fundemental shifts/downsizing, is it realistic to expect that people will stick around?
Want to hear from people in the financial industry who think, in five years, the bloomberg terminals will be humming again and we’ll be looking at $200 jeans – from my vantage (as a working prole) it feels something like Detroit must have just after WWII ended….
Help us Obi-Wan!
I can say working in Big Law that many firms have either said no raises this year or they’ve done this cutesy schtick where raises are delayed until June. My firm has had layoffs. I’ve been busy as sh*t at work since they canned two people in my department a couple months ago. Have the feeling I’m safe for now as I don’t know how they could spread the work any thinner and actually get anything done. Fortunately we have a pretty strong creditor’s rights practice so there’s been plenty of work in that area and litigation of course is picking up.
Seneca: (38): I always found the deposit practice kind of stupid when you come prequalified to a potential transaction, yet I always was asked by the realtor to perform this time-honored NJ sales tradition. I think I burned 2 checks prior to purchasing my first home in Montclair. One was in Los Angeles and the other one was in Jersey City.
Clot No. 6
It sounds like you are shorting tarheel stock up there in Joise. Things are bad here too, but at least my Tigers are still undefeated.
good luck tomorrow, BC was just the first of many, he he he
Clot, why the shock?
We are witnessing something unprecedented. I can honestly say that I, like many here, predicted everything* that’s happening now way back in 2005 (I would have thought it would have started sooner). It’s still very much shocking to witness.
(*well, not everything. I predicted bond yields/interest rates would be higher as the govt. tries to re-inflate the economy by printing money)
Stu says:
January 9, 2009 at 9:58 pm
ChiFi: Do you think for one minute that our banks are anywhere near solvent? It won’t take much of a world event (or rumor of such) to trigger a bank run and a bank holiday. Tarp might have stopped the pain in the markets, but the underlying disaster still remains. Either the banks are all insolvent due to the loans they made on RE commercial and residential or the U.S. Government owns the banks (more likely) and is getting closer and closer to insolvency by the month.
Stu: I was responding to PGC’s question regarding supposed safe-haven in investing. I am not trying to suggest that the finanical services sector or consumer cyclicals were not going to get whacked. I was just positing that what happend 60-120 days ago was so extreme that it ripped through layers of the economy to the point of severly affecting the seemingly innoculated….
Maybe Obama will institute Price Controls on Healthcare Drugs.
Chi,
You got me going;
Anonymous says:
August 31, 2006 at 1:54 pm
“Show & Tell society” getting a wakeup call.
Alot of those dunces about 30-40% of America are in the dumpers.
I hope to bail them out of some of their goodies as assets start to deflate.
House prices will continue to drop for weeks months and years ahead.
hehehehehe!
BOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAA
Bob
V L or \ says:
January 9, 2009 at 10:00 pm
Am I pandering to ask what brings NYC & environs back if Wall St as we know it is in the process of being dismantled?
As the economic engine of the region (amounting to, what, 25% of the total payroll of the city?), if its is experiencing fundemental shifts/downsizing, is it realistic to expect that people will stick around?
Want to hear from people in the financial industry who think, in five years, the bloomberg terminals will be humming again and we’ll be looking at $200 jeans – from my vantage (as a working prole) it feels something like Detroit must have just after WWII ended…. Help us Obi-Wan!
VL: stabilization for NYC will be in 18-24 months, but the publicly traded markets much sooner.
#40 ChiFi
I take a different slant on this. I believe in balance. For every dollar lost there is a dollar made. While turning commodity into product can add value to the system, over all there will be balance. We shot for the moon with Leverage, now the deleverage has to happen. The big question is how hard the landing will be.
The system has to be unravelled back to zero. The risk has to come back on the books and the risky loans balanced against the performing. If the big banks go under, the smaller ones will step up in their place. Piper Jaffrey and Jefferries will step up and fill the IB hole left behind when GS and MS became banks. The IB business will change and the IB market will adapt, but it will still be there. The smaller community banks will continue lending money to solid customers.
The big difference will be that the gvmt will have to take its focus off the banks and gear up to handle the breadlines and homeless.
We are entering a new world and the mantra will be “back to basics”
BC,
what’s up? I’m here in Charleston, SC and wanted to say hi on a Fri.
What’s new in NJ?
People have been saying that Healthcare will be recession proof.
A friend of the family was a doctor during the great depression. He was often paid in barter for his services. He would see a patient and get a few eggs or some chicken if he was lucky. Sure, people need health care regardless of the economic situation, but if they can’t pay they can’t pay.
I visited a doctor in South America a few years ago for a sinus infection while on a trip. It cost me $6. That’s not a copay, that’s the whole bill. Because that’s what people there could afford.
So, sure, you will get to keep your healthcare job, but the pay may not be so great.
“SAS Survival Handbook: How to Survive in the Wild, in Any Climate, on Land or at Sea”
was one of the few americans that “gave” training to SAS.
you really think i haven’t left Lodi since 77?
:P
SAS
#49 ChiFi
I think my main though is why search for a safe haven if there is none available. You better start looking at plan B. Plan B for me is Food and basic existence.
The people here can short the market and ride SRS to the moon. But when they hit the button to cash out, what do they expect to be paid in, physical bars. IF this goes they way they expect, the best payout would physical delivery of something like grain, but then what are they going to do with it.
Interesting thoughts for interesting times.
chi #52: does NYC come back on the back of the same % of wall-street driven growth? if so, what does one look for to evaluate its return (ie Merrill Lynch as a bank ain’t gonna butter the bread)? If not, what is the mechanism of stabilizaiton? Could see simply living here as remaining attractive to the world, but not if services drop significantly (which seems possible given their costs) Its easy (and fun) to prophesize doom, but, sadly, this time it seems not unreasonable (and, therefore, a lot less fun).
“Nassau County Has $40M Sales Tax Drop”
http://tinyurl.com/8vyvx9
PGC (34)-
The guys headed for Omaha Beach knew they were going to get shot at, too.
Still doesn’t prepare you for the shock of the reality.
All the calls on one day? No surprise. We’ve talked ad nauseum about everybody running for the exits & all the doors being barred shut.
The piss poor financial state of the sellers who need out? Yeah, right…like that’s some sort of surprise.
The desperation, lack of foresight, levels of intractable debt and the horrible stories?
For that, I was not prepared.
“The state will begin offering second-mortgage loans of up to $25,000, with no monthly payments”
A LOAN is somehing one pays back.
seneca (38)-
It is customary in NJ to make a $1,000 good faith deposit into escrow upon making offers.
Without that, your intent to honor an accepted contract is bound by nothing. Think of it as being like a free call option. Too easy to walk away on an accepted offer if you have no skin on the line.
Even in a market as awful as this, you don’t get to see cards without paying.
Clot,
Care to share the “horrible stories.”
I’m wondering what would shock you at this point.
Also – isn’t the Fannie/Freddie moratorium on foreclosures during Christmas coming to an end soon? Is it in February?
Maybe that’s the trigger?
BC (39)-
“Come out tonight.”
Quoting from The Warriors now?
Gotta go up in the attic and find the Joe Walsh soundtrack.
spring ain’t looken good.
“Wholesale inventories drop 0.6 percent in November”
http://tinyurl.com/8ehem5
PGC: As a law abiding, non-credit abusing, tax paying citizen who has watched his peers abuse credit and then get bailed, I am pissed. The behavior of the IBs is simply abhorrent as well as their paid supporters, the rating agencies. The government is run by the corporations and for the corporations and the whole system is rigged for the rich to get richer.
I can live a very humble existence if necessary. I have been for years actually. The shorts are just building my nest egg for the shack I will build in Costa Rica or Belize. Can’t wait to retire and fish and garden. I don’t even need electricity. Dirt floors and a hammock will suit me just fine. I swear, the day my son enters college or a trade, I will be on the plane. Anyone care to join me?
can tell you first hand that this market turmoil causes lots of inbalances e.g., houses that went for 600K in 2004 are on the market for 200K which is 70K less than gubmint sponsored affordable housing. what a mess!!
Chicago It’s a mistake to assume the government janitorial staff actually knows what it’s doing. The whole TARP thing was not required, and was passed under threats of martial law. The money was not used for what it was intended for, the money went down a black hole and the if Barney Frank gets his way next week the remaining money is now targeted at Munis and propping up local government.
The insolvent banks should have been shut down their accounts transferred and capital should have been provided to the other banks and believe me there are plenty that do not have billions in CDS exposure, the smaller banks without huge leverage and billions in bucket bet exposure could have expanded their operations to make up for the lack in lending.
I posted an article at the top of this thread, the janitors down in Washington are still at it, 11 days till the new administration starts and Klink still want to flush another 350 billion down the toilet.
chi (40)-
TARP worked? Necessary?
Barney thinks he got prime rump roast; too bad Klink blindfolded him and served him up a tranny from the Bowery.
See Elizabeth Warren’s report today? Her oversight committee can’t find the money or get answers on what’s being done with it.
Now, the only way the next 350bn gets released is for Geitner to let Barney and his buttpirates tell the banks exactly what to do with it.
Which could be dumber and more dangerous than letting the banks just stuff it in a vault.
Sounds like success to me.
The desperation, lack of foresight, levels of intractable debt and the horrible stories?
For that, I was not prepared.
Clot, hear, hear!
I see more desperate people than I care to know about. It’s awful. Many don’t come to the hospital until they are brought in by ambulance.
Others tell me, “I don’t have insurance, I don’t want *fill in the blank* xrays, other tests, ask for cheap antibiotics, and beg me to not admit them to the hospital: they cannot afford it.
I get depressed on a daily basis at work. I am, at least, employed. I know for certain that our income is gonna start dropping once all the COBRAs run out and people drop insurance and give fake names, addresses and fake IDs.
I have seen more suicide attempts in the past month than I have seen in a year. Some of them have been successful.
Want my job? Picture dealing with the family members of the dead.
…I need a drink.
sl
Don’t get me started on the 2 trill of worthless collateral festering behind the Fed window…
That stuff’s stinking like an Iowa feedlot in July.
“The whole TARP thing can be sneered at derisively if you choose, but was required at the time regardless of the poor subsequent implementation.”
Chi,
Are you kidding?
OK, let’s give Hank some credit. He’s a master deal maker. He created the toxic crap and sold it off to the world as AAA. That wasn’t enough, he knew it was a turd, thereby approving the largest short in GS history. Subsequently, he jammed a 3 page document down the throats of the dolts in DC while covering his *ss. Pure brillance.
Hammerin simply created a deep,black hole in financial history when Congress/The Administration allowed the robber barrons of wall street to manage this crisis. The biggest fraud ever perpetuated upon taxpayers of the US. Just an array of constant lies and deception.
If he was so concerend about the economy/liquidity, why not target the $ to regional banks and let them lever? Instead he fed his dead buddies, who are sucking on $700T of dark OTC derivative positions? Why AIG [Goldman] and not Lehman.
Required? Yes, a trial for fraud and treason.
I don’t believe we’ll face any sort of currency crisis until a couple years after this deflationary period. This deflationary period is likely to last at least another 24-36 months in my estimate. That’s a minimum to clear all the crap out of the system. If the government runs the printing presses, and it looks like they will, it will take even longer ala Japan.
The unemployment numbers are only going to continue to skyrocket over this next year. You’ve basically had the residential construction industry decimated and it will be a long time before any of those jobs come back. The commercial construction meltdown is just warming up. We are probably into the 4th-5th inning of the financial/banking downsizing and consolidation. Many of the regional banks are going to get hammered by the commercial construction meltdown. In NY you are seeing the financial industry meltdown already beginning to spread to the law firms and auditors with their layoffs continuing.
Rather than propping up a failed economy (by that I mean the debt driven super leveraged circus of the past 20 yrs) the clowns in Washington would be better served using the money to lengthen unemployment benefits, bolster the FDIC and put in place some type of retraining programs to shift all the unemployed white collar workers into other fields.
I am eternally grateful to be able to vent here…. it’s kept me marginally sane.
sl
“Come out tonight.”
“Quoting from The Warriors now?”
Clot,
No. Actually The Boss; Rosalita.
Clot,
By the way, the only Warriors that I am familiar with are Golden State.
Re the TARP,
Chi how can you defend it when nobody knows what’s been done with the money. For all we know they’ve been using it to prop up the stock market the past three months.
BC,
You see that Warriors/JAZZ game last night with the whistle? Frigging awesome!
“That stuff’s stinking like an Iowa feedlot in July.”
Clot,
At least that Iowa feedlot has a chance for a summer rally. Remember, the herd was rushed to market during the corn, ethanol fiasco. The $2T of worthless collateral, more like mad cow disease.
scribe (64)-
The lis pendens aren’t even filed on any of the people I talked to today. However, credit checks revealed delinquencies and intermittent lates on all the subject mortgages.
The trigger for all the folks I talked to today is job loss. Also, everyone I talked to- save one couple- is divorcing.
There’s a chicken/egg question I don’t even want to begin to parse.
he [79],
Didn’t see it.
sl: *hug*
good luck, everyone.
HAH. After we hyper inflate the crowd will kill for the metal. Somehwere around 2015, we may bring a real Tall Paul disciple to the Fed, I know delusional. At that time, I will put out the for sale sign, let the bubble bid it up and I’ll step aside and buy dollars, which nobody wants.
BC, my worry is: in an environment like that … how confident do you feel selling the physical? if the scenario you envision happens, then we’re talking about bedlam and anarchy and … well, selling gold would be the equivalent of a massive drug deal today. you might need an army with you.
Don’t forget the rainbow warriors of Hawaii University.
SL, you know the drill. Don’t internalize what you do. I am blessed with the ability to look at terrible situations and not let it truly upset me. I am as cool as one can be when under pressure. I wish I could kick field goals! As much as your stories are depressing, it is good to share them with the rest of us. It even helps break those who are in denial. I do not envy what you do for a living, but I think we are all quite gracious that there are people willing to perform such a painful job. It is people like you who perform the truly necessary work that keeps families together that help counterbalance my anger towards those greedy MFers on Wall Street who might have destroyed our wonderful country and the freedoms that come with it. Hang in there.
“chi #52: does NYC come back on the back of the same % of wall-street driven growth?”
[59],
WS is dead/gone. The IB model has been busted. Salaries/comp have peaked, jobs will be moved, if not totally eliminated, to other parts of the country/world. WS will just be a shell of its former self.
Need a toaster?
yikes (84)-
By 2015, many of us will have a sure, steady machine gun hand.
Ducats travel light & travel well, too.
Clot, Your scenario has played out in the likes of Detroit for years. The people in the likes of Alabama and Tennesse, will say to those in NJ, welcome to our life. The folks in the NJ trailer parks (and there are many) will say welcome to our world.
STU You are a law abiding, non-credit abusing, tax paying citizen and that allows you to hold on to your dignity and integrity. At the end of the day there is no bailout. Everyone suffers. Like that soldier on Omaha beach, their individual actions didn’t create that war, but they still had to deal with it.
SL, you do a job I could never do and I thank you for it.
I have a level acceptance for this situation that comes from where and how I grew up. This situation is so far out of my control. If it is out of my control I can’t change it. All I can do is try and do the right thing and work through it and see if I survive to the end. In doing so I can only hope that my little bit of right get added to something bigger to then make a difference.
I’m not happy. I’m not thrilled. I’ve always secretly wanted to just take a hit on a declining SRS and deal with happy, shiny people wanting to do happy, shiny housing purchases and sales again.
This is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. This is it. Armageddon is nigh.
EVERYBODY OUT THERE, LISTEN UP. YOU GO DOING DUMB THINGS WITH YOUR MONEY OR THINK HOUSING HAS “BOTTOMED OUT”? YOU WILL WAKE UP BROKE AND IN BED- WITH A R@HYPNOL HANGOVER- WITH BARNEY FRANK AND THE CRIMINALS WHO HAVE ALREADY ROBBED THIS COUNTRY BLIND. THINGS ARE BAD, AND ABOUT TO GET GRAPES OF WRATH BAD. YOUR PAL NEXT DOOR CALLS YOU “WEIRD” AND “PARANOID”? FUCKING GIVE HIM A MOUTHFUL OF CHICLETS AND PROTECT YOURSELF. THE MASS IS ABOUT TO GO CRITICAL!
you’ve been right for nearly 3 years, at least according to what i’ve read. that’s why this scares me.
Yikes[84],
What’s the worry?
I pick up the phone or send an email. Sell at $2,504.25. The $ is then wired into my account.
sl – And we’re all grateful that there are people like you in our ER’s. Thanks.
BC (86)-
Piper Jaffrey and Greenhill ain’t picking up the slack left hanging by LEH, GS, MS, MER. I just don’t think God put that many more nasty, sociopathic people on Earth.
I hope, for all our sakes, that WS is dead. It needs to be.
http://wellmedicated.com/inspiration/50-incredible-film-posters-from-poland/
for those who keep citing “Weekend at Bernie’s”
The Polish movie poster for it!!
scroll about a quarter of the way down.
sl
BC (89)-
I see a bag of ducats going from your hand into the hand of Farmer John, who then hands you two live chickens.
sl (92)-
Thanks. I needed that. :)
#86 BC (for real BC???):
I tend to agree, WS does seem dead & gone, combo of recent financial events and the long-term decentralization of technology (almost like it hung on after 9/11 from nostalgia). The question du jour is: if that is truly the case, and WS is really gone, what re-powers NYC? 25% of payroll, and my recollection is that’s direct contribution – add the tributary effects and it seems safe to say WS IS NYC. We can debate whether it comes back or not; but, i suppose im wondering (going out to those who lived thru the 70s or ’87) what signs to look for whether WS is coming back, I’d suggest if it IS dead & gone (D&G), then NYC becomes a much smaller place – perhaps Manhattan to 57th st is still fancy, but look for Kurt Russell everywhere else. A great disturbance in the force???
For those that haven’t left Lodi since 77. We could be neighbors?
Is there good pizza nearby?
http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?loc=lodi+NJ&mxp=50000&sid=5928a808f7134ebeb06e3a711ff196db&lid=1102132923&lsn=2&srcnt=2
(93)-
Whatever you do, just don’t buy onions from Farmer John.
When you heat them, they make their own gravy.
VL (95)-
“The question du jour is: if that is truly the case, and WS is really gone, what re-powers NYC?”
Robin Byrd and Al Goldstein?
alia, PGC, Outofstater, Stu
Thanks…
I’ve grown a thick skin in nearly 15 yrs of medicine and 13 yrs in “the Pit” — the uptick in misery lately just gets me by surprise at times.
I also used to try to gently inform folks at work about the mess we are really in.
I get the “crazy” looks from them.
I’m willing to bet others here get the same thing, right? When you try to tell others how fu.cked we are?
I feel like the kid in “Sixth Sense” – you just stop talking about it and watch the slow motion train wreck in “horror, table for one.”
sl
Seneca – Yes. That’s how we did it (but in PA). the $1000 goes toward closing.
or rather, is deducted at closing.
fwiw – it’s official – were holding off on the pool. this thread scared the poop out of my rear
Clot [93],
By that time, the bag of ducats will buy the whole farm. Farmer John will now be reporting to work. He better not be caught blogging.
sl – If I was in your vicinity, I’d take you out for a good stiff drink or two.
All glory to the commissar!
Elizabeth Warren’s paper on the TARP money, lots of questions no answers.
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/financialsvcs_dem/cop121008.pdf
“Want my job? Picture dealing with the family members of the dead”
i want all you all to chin up.
you can have a soda, shake it off & take a hot shower, give family hugs, and still goto a food store, and sleep in cozy bed.
back in nam, we were the dead.
and families? aye, they were miles away.
imagine: a bamboo shoot diped in human dung jammed through your foot, no meds, no hospital, hot & humid as hell out, bullets flying over your head,
imagine: laying on your belly for 2 hrs knowing a sniper on a building ready to pop you if you moved. and nowhere to change your drawers once it was all over.
imagine: the person you talked to and smoked a joint w/ now minutes later is in pieces. literally.
graphic, i know.
my point:
sometimes things are rough, and they shake us a little, but it ain’t henny penny. you ain’t Iraq or the Gaza.
you ain’t a slave in the Congo.
like i said around xmas time, and i meant it, we need to pull up our boot straps and keep eachother afloat.
SAS
Interesting segment on NPR on the way home this evening. Someone talking about condo sales in NYC made a comment that if you took off the sales from the high end (anything listed over 3mil), prices over the last 2 years have dropped 20%.
I’ll try and see if they put the piece on the website.
READ MY LIPS
NO ONE IS GOING TO PAY 500K FOR YOUR POS IN HOIGHTYVILLE.
THIS AIN’T 2005 YOU GREEDY GRUBBERS
I SMELL PANIC!!!!!!!!
LET EM SQUIRM
————————————
I miss Booya.
Anyone ever think Booya was really Cramer?
I’m going to say I agree to agree with Bob — buying a house right now is a BAD IDEA you smucks!! Hold your ground and wait for the prices on housing to come back down to planet earth. Oh that’s if Obama and Corzine let it!!
You go, Bob! :)
#99 Clot –
Not unreasonable to propose that NYC, under the leadership of Byrd & Goldstein, become the new porn central of the nation (taking the reign from toapnga canyon) – and the tarp bailout sought by flint, in combo with spitzers escapades, could hasten this transition. frankly, it sound fun (provided the only stabbin is from the captain, rather than some punk with a knife); but, still, massive shrinkage compared to WS, with reductions in services to match. Did the fall in ’87 show up in initially in surly youths?
and i won’t even tell you what i saw in Cambodia, it will shake you.
SAS
chi – thanks for the trip down memory lane;
“essex want a milkbone”
“At least the Titanic had a band”
“Frisky eaters”
“Condoshacks”
Bababababababababa.
Here’s to you all and our missing bretheren – njpatient, metroplexual, richard, pret, ducky, Booyah and many many others.
Can’t believe over 3 years on this board and I still haven’t made a get together.
#73 BC Bob
OK, let’s give Hank some credit.
How about 700 billion worth to start?
LOL
leg (110)-
Mr. Market is calling the shots now.
Only thing left now is to guess when Wil E hits the canyon floor.
And chi – don’t think TARP did anything but try to push the problem off to another administration.
soosh (112)-
“Can’t believe over 3 years on this board and I still haven’t made a get together.”
I’m not coming to another GTG unless there’s a metal detector at the door. ;)
#81 Clot,
The trigger for all the folks I talked to today is job loss. Also, everyone I talked to- save one couple- is divorcing.
So divorce attorney is the new growth industry?
bairen (117)-
Actually, the US is now full of people who want to divorce…and can’t afford it. One of the couples I heard from today have divvied up the house, War of the Roses-style.
Check the WSJ. I think they did a piece on this within the past 2-3 weeks.
“#86 BC (for real BC???):”
[95],
The IB’s have been mini me’d, to bank holding co’s. Many will leave, be forced to leave, move into higher education or boutique investment firms. We have endured a 28 year orgy/splurge. The result? A total implosion, worldwide shock waves. It will take years of reparation, forget about growth. The focus is on survival.
“I’m not coming to another GTG unless there’s a metal detector at the door”
FBI, DHS, & the mob enjoy our posts too.
SAS
like i said, i didn’t just fall of a turnip truck and I gotta long hx.
:)
SAS
“FBI, DHS, & the mob enjoy our posts too.”
As do the dancers at Satin Dolls.
is this what its coming to (a voyage thru Detroit)?:
…a warm, bright Sunday afternoon, Danny and I decided we’d drive over to Grosse Point, and work our way down along the lake to downtown, then get on the freeway back up to 16 mile. Somewhere along the downtown part, we took a wrong turn and were suddenly exactly in the middle of “the wrong part of town.” Razorwire everywhere, we actually drove by the old Saks, downtown, boarded-up. We had no idea where we were. We panicked, we slowed down at red-lights but didn’t stop unless we had to. We eventually found our way to a street name we recognized and managed to get out of the ruined territory.
For all our terror that day, I remember sensing what it must have been like back in the day. One could see it had been a thriving metropolis. No movie made really captures the post-nuclear feel of the place now.
Makes me sad that it passed and that it may have little hope of a comeback.
#118 Clot,
I heard of that. That’s gotta be tough.
“At least the Titanic had a band”
or
“Frisky eaters”
these 2 have to be the best one liners of all time on this site.
2 classics!
lol
SAS
radiohead – house of cards:
Denial, denial
The infrastructure will collapse
From voltage spikes
Put your keys in the bowl
Kiss your husband goodnight
Forget about your house of cards
And I’ll do mine
Forget about your house of cards
And I’ll do mine
Fall off the table and get swept under
Denial, denial
Denial, denial
lisoosh, thanks!
Wow… I forgot about the Babababababababas.
It amazes me, too. 3 yrs worth of hanging out here… I’ve learned so much from all of the folks here kind enough to teach.
I remember hubby and me haunting the Bergen County Sheriff sales and finally getting a whiff of what that was all about.
I still wonder where Booyah Bob went.
sl
sl (127)-
He went with Listen to Ft. Lauderdale for the Super Bowl.
He stayed for the shiny toys.
hey,
where is John after 5 & on the weekends?
he must be having a drink with all those “ladies” that buy him wine.
lol
that bloke!
he is all wet behind the ears.
SAS
#122 BC Bob
“As do the dancers at Satin Dolls.”
I drove by this morning and saw an armored personnel carrier on the back of a flat bed sitting out back. Maybe they are gearing up to bus people in and out.
sas (129)-
And, John’s mentioned many a time that the “ladies” who aren’t really ladies offer their services at a rate more suited to his accountant’s penurious nature.
“Ruby Tuesday plans to close 40 locations early this year and will close an additional 30 restaurants over the next several years”
http://tinyurl.com/6sferm
sas (132)-
Wow. Another ugly place that serves ratburgers and warm Bud Light hits the dust.
Good riddance.
#132 SAS
Another Sysco salt-lick special bites the dust.
Now, can Friday’s- and their fat, spiky-haired, boor of a TV shill- please go away?
“Wow. Another ugly place that serves ratburgers and warm Bud Light hits the dust”
i had the same thought, but still for someone, its a job that pays the bills.
SAS
sas (136)-
Maybe those folks can learn how to break apart MBS/CDOs.
#136 sas
That is a good point. it’s not just lousy chains taking the hit, but the people working there are losing their income.
I got laid off last year. had 3 months notice it was coming, took me 4 to find a new job. Not exactly a pleasant experience. But hopefully my new job is more enjoyable and lucrative.
“COBRA Too Costly for Many Unemployed, Report Finds”
http://tinyurl.com/93fe43
video of detroit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov7yhByXdkQ&feature=related
Lots of others on there, detailing the majesty that used to be the auto capital of the world.
A warning to us all – hubris isn’t pretty.
Vultures don’t have jobs, they live off the work of others. Snakes and cats don’t have jobs. They’re sneaky and conniving and take stuff from other people.
bairen says:
January 9, 2009 at 11:53 pm
#136 sas
That is a good point. it’s not just lousy chains taking the hit, but the people working there are losing their income.
I got laid off last year. had 3 months notice it was coming, took me 4 to find a new job. Not exactly a pleasant experience. But hopefully my new job is more enjoyable and lucrative.
#140 lishoosh
Looks like WW 2 or Beirut after the civil war.
my mother used to shop in Patterson when she was little. I used to go to the Asbury Park boardwalk before crack.
Things can change in a hurry for the worse.
Wonder what the hoighty train towns will be like in a few years if Wall St becomes a shell of itself.
tard,
How’s the house flippin going?
Was it hard jumping from crayons right to the keyboard?
reinvestor101,
Its Fri at midnight? what happen, she turn you down?
lol.
just kidding bloke, don’t bulldose my house.
:)
SAS
SAS,
RE is a SHE.
Syb,
What’s the tip-off?
Some good news on the solar energy front.
“Nanosolar is on track to make solar electricity:
cost-efficient for ubiquitous deployment
mass-produced on a global scale
available in many versatile forms.
Nanosolar has developed proprietary process technology that makes it possible to produce 100x thinner solar cells 100x faster.
Watch videos by CNN, KQED, CNBC to see how we can simply roll-print thin-film solar cells.
Our first product, the Nanosolar Utility Panel™, is the industry’s first panel specifically designed for optimal utility-scale systems economics.
The result sets the standard for cost-efficient solar power. ”
In a couple years I am going to put so much electricity producing solar sheets on my house that you will be electricuted if you ring the door bell. Ill have so many lights on you wont need streetlights. There is hope people. I am as bear as any of you but get a grip for Christ sake.
Milkbones…good times!
In reply to.
“All I can do is try and do the right thing and work through it and see if I survive to the end. In doing so I can only hope that my little bit of right get added to something bigger to then make a difference.”
Arguably the smartest thing I have read on this forum.
One needs optimism to see them through this life.
From Bloomberg:
London’s Luxury Home Values Drop in 2008 by the Most on Record
Luxury home values in central London fell in 2008 by the most in more than three decades as the worst banking crisis since World War I decimated demand from the city’s financial professionals.
The average value of a house or apartment in London’s nine most expensive neighborhoods fell almost 17 percent last year, according to Knight Frank LLP, which tracks prices dating back to 1976. Values declined 2.2 percent in December, the ninth consecutive monthly drop in an index that mostly covers homes costing at least 1 million pounds ($1.5 million).
Demand for residential property in the U.K. capital has waned amid a worldwide credit crisis that the research firm Oxford Economics estimates could cost London 60,000 jobs in banking, finance and insurance by the end of 2010.
“The market’s fortunes will be driven by economic conditions — especially those in the City,” said Liam Bailey, Knight Frank’s head of residential research, referring to London’s main financial district.
Worst hit so far have been homes worth up to 2.5 million pounds, a segment of the market where values fell 22 percent last year. Homes in that tier are favored by financial professionals who have been hit with job losses and “fears of further job cuts in 2009,” Bailey said.
From the Press of AC:
Atlantic City casino revenue plunges for second straight year
Ray Waszkiewicz felt a little lonely while sitting all by himself amid row after empty row of slot machines at Trump Taj Mahal Casino Resort.
The 78-year-old retired machinist, who hops a bus at his home in Saddle Brook, Bergen County, for monthly gambling trips to Atlantic City, could never remember it being so quiet on the casino floor.
“It’s almost empty,” he said. “There are fewer and fewer people. There is hardly anybody here. It used to be so crowded.”
With the country in an economic tailspin and people cutting back on their gambling budgets, Atlantic City casinos suffered their second straight year of lower revenue in 2008 – a stunning 7.6 percent decline.
Figures released Friday also showed a dismal December in which revenue plunged 18.7 percent, the biggest monthly drop in the city’s 30-year history of legalized gambling. Previously, the worst month ever was a 15.1 percent decline set in September.
From CNBC:
Many Jobs on Wall Street May Never Come Back
David Ambinder spent nearly a quarter-century in the banking industry before Wall Street caved in on him last summer.
“You kind of knew it was coming,” says the former executive at a host of major financial firms, “you just didn’t know when.”
Like hundreds of thousands of other professionals there, Ambinder was stunned by the rapidity with which the credit crisis swept through some of the world’s most venerable financial institutions.
His career as he knew it, which most recently took him to Lehman Brothers but previously had landed him at Goldman Sachs and Salomon Brothers/Smith Barney, was over.
And like many in his position, Ambinder isn’t waiting around for his job to come back.
Ambinder, in fact, has put Wall Street behind him, mindful that in the new economic paradigm, he is best off planning for the future than ruminating about the past.
“Wall Street has changed,” says Ambinder, who most recently worked as a senior vice president for global support services at Lehman before being laid off. “The investment banking culture is gone to a large extent or is under a microscope right now. I just don’t see it returning to the way it was.”
Gone by 2010?
1. Malls? Hate em.
2. Atlantic City? Hate it.
3. Wall Street? Pfffft.
4. The NJ Housing Market? Meh.
100 SL
First thanks for all you do.
Second, when I talk to teachers I work with about being smart and not depending on a pension they look at me like I’m insane. I guess I must be, being a counselor and all. But these people are not prepared. When the layoffs come, and they will, it is going to be very very messy.
100 SL
First thanks for all you do.
Second, when I talk to teachers I work with about being smart and not depending on a pension they look at me like I’m insane. I guess I must be, being a counselor and all. But these people are not prepared. When the layoffs come, and they will, it is going to be very very messy.
100 SL
First thanks for all you do.
Second, when I talk to teachers I work with about being smart and not depending on a pension they look at me like I’m insane. I guess I must be, being a counselor and all. But these people are not prepared. When the layoffs come, and they will, it is going to be very very messy.
oops
#125 V L – Did you ever make it to Grosse Pointe? I’ve been wondering how the Pointes have been doing with the car companies collapsing. How can they keep going when the source of their money has gone away?
Peter Schiff on the Treasury-Bond Bubble
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/024780.html
Buying US gov’t bonds is “throwing money down the toilet”.
157…158…159
And then I suppose you will experience the joy of schadenfreud?
So, what does lostinny mean anyway??
As Tiny Tim said, “God Bless Us One and All”. At this juncture that’s about all that’s left. The Visigoths have sacked Rome.
“What’s the only thing harder to swallow than Bernie Madoff’s sleazy money schemes? A new hot sauce dedicated to the Ponzi king himself”
http://tinyurl.com/a6mxax
163 Essex
Find someone else to pick a fight with.
On a positive note…Christmas earnings season starts on Monday.
Lost: You will be that much better off following your strategy. You are a lot like my wife and me. We can afford to live in a large house, with fancy cars and fancy clothes. We choose to save and save and save. Shoot, we don’t even have a large screen HD television. If you can convince one friend to live within their means, it will be worth your years of pleading. Personally, I created an investment club to educate my closest friends. We have eleven members and four years in, they are all much smarter about all things finance. We have educational segments where we either bring in a speaker or a member will research and report on what they found. This may be the most valuable part of the club.
On Wall Street: We are all better off without them. In the grand scheme of things, it appears that their existence did nothing less than hurt industry over the last decade or two. Good riddance. The country can survive without their tax revenue which was generated from the transfer of wealth from the ignorant to the greedy.
Essex: One does need optimism to get through this. It also helps not to be an arrogant jerk.
James: Nanotech has promise, but I think we are decades away from you painting your house in solar panels.
SAS and Clot: Never been to Ruby Tuesday’s and stay miles away from those chainy places. Occasionally I’ll do the Olive Garden for the soup salad and breadsticks deal. I really enjoy their salad. As a matter of fact, I lament the loss of the salad bar from most eating establishments.
The divorce thing is really surprising. Do people really stay together for nothing more than disagreements over money? This sickens me.
170 Stu
I have pleaded with family and friends to live within their means. They ignore me, tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about, etc. So I’m done. People have to make their own mistakes to truly learn from them. I can only be an ear to listen to when it hits the fan for them. And hopefully at that point, they’ll seek out a real solution for their situations.
Anecdata FWIW:
The listings since Jan 1 here in Middletown have prices significantly reduced. I would say half are re-lists of garbage that sat last year, some have come back on with 10-20% price reductions. The new lists are down I’d say 5-15% since 2H 2008. My realtor friend also told me that the spread between list and closing price is expanding every week. She has given up talk about price stabilization and a bottom.
America’s Fastest-Growing States
The populations of these states are growing the fastest, even in slow economic times.
http://promo.realestate.yahoo.com/americas-fastest-growing-states.html
innocent question…..and thanks stu for the advice…but I have found that ‘jerkiness’ works in your favor when around those of similar tendencies…
If you want to see how your tax dollar investment in the gubment hedge fund is doing, follow this ticker chart:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=%5EQGRI
All companies that received at least 1 billion from TARP are included.
It started on January 5th at $1000, and it closed yesterday at $904.19.
Go Paulson!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_TjBNjc9Bo
I’m posting the 30 min. version of I.O.U.S.A that BC Bob brought to us a few months ago.
They plead with Americans to return to saving – many are.
They chide us for being a consumer-driven society and say our ways must change – they are.
Of note for me is the WW11 deficit figure of 122% of GDP.
So being this far in the hole
( 67% of GDP) is not without prededence.
True, we did not then turn around and ask foreigners to bail us out, we sold war bonds.
If we imagine ourselves in a war now ( not talking about overseas here) and pull together to fight the excesses of our recent past – maybe we can pull this nation together.
We do need to help each other…
and the leadership role must be taken seriously.
There is also no doubt that the future commitments for Medicare, Medicaid, SS must be reined in now.
We need to set a course and stick to it…I think Americans are now aware that there will be pain. If we process our situation as a “war”, and all pull together, I believe we can pull through…
But as SAS would say, that’s just me…
I got a buzz cut — does that count as warlike?
People want to Believe, because the alternative is Despair. Classic example was people buying Wall Street hyping a “Goldlocks Economy”. How can adults still believe in Fairy Tales? The Government throws Tarp at the issues, because they know their is no feasible alternative. The entire infrastructure is fundamentally flawed. So they blow air into the broken bubble in a fruitless attempt to maintain the flawed process. A more appropriate Fairy Tale would be, “All the Kings Horses and All the Kings Men, Couldn’t put Humpty Dumpty back together again”. Once they realize (if), the process is fundamentally flawed, they can let it crash and start over. The starting point can be execution of all Politicians and Corporate Criminals. The people need to see those who facilitated the problem permanently removed. They also need to revise all Laws. Murder for example will carry the same penalty (Death), regardless of any names you may have called the victim or whether or not you liked the victim. Dysfunctional Psychobabble will no longer be tolerated. The Kiss priciple (Keep It Simple Stupid) will be the Overarching Principle). Talking in Pschobabble will be automatic grounds for Deportation. Lawyers can only serve in the Judiciary, no other branch of Government.
(181) Confused If you are implying that I am hopful out of dispair, you are wrong. I am taking the necessary steps to take care of myself and will do whatever is necessary given future events.
I feel I give the American people more credit than many here. They were kept in the dark. The lights have been turned on and the cockroaches exposed. Now people can choose to respond, make adjustments, or not.
The powers that be want us to spend. We are not. I do not see their attempts to reinflate a credit bubble working…we simply need to move on from there…
PGC says:
Another Sysco salt-lick special bites the dust.
*******
*THAT* made me laugh out loud…
I’m stealing it, m’kay?
:)
Clotpoll says:
January 9, 2009 at 11:02 pm
BC (89)-
I see a bag of ducats going from your hand into the hand of Farmer John, who then hands you two live chickens.
my only concern is that said farmer now knows you have ducats … and if he’s hurting financially, he tells his farmer buddies that you have ducats … and now you’re a target.
i’ve probably seen too many movies.
Grim – my 182 is in the penalty box – mod – not sure why??
Ooooh – C@ckroaches…..@182
Cindy
Good to see you’re here. I haven’t seen your posts in a while. But I haven’t been on as much as I used to be.
(181) Lost
“But I haven’t been on as much as I used to be.”
Me either…It’s Saturday – I have some space to think…weekdays – not so much…
#174 Essex
I got a buzz cut — does that count as warlike?
Depends on the body part.
Paulson’s own view of the current situation is much darker. He predicts that the recession will last well into 2010 and that unemployment will reach 9 percent, a sharp increase from its current perch just below 7 percent. “We have a long way to go before we reach the bottom,” he says.
http://www.portfolio.com/executives/features/2009/01/07/John-Paulson-Profits-in-Downturn
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/
The Big Picture
“Time to Overhaul the Bailout Plan”
http://cop.senate.gov/documents/cop-010909-report.pdf
Here is the 2nd COP Warren report..
#155 – that article seems to assume that the WS bloodletting is finished. I was under the impression that it still has plenty of legs.
Insiders thoughts?
Also this quote from the article made me laugh:
“A big demand is unmet for trustworthy advice,” says Bob Frank, a professor at the Johnson School of Cornell University. “There’s a widespread perception that people were convinced to buy things based not on the best interests of the buyer but on the best interests of the seller.”
“Perception”? I’ve worked within the NY/NJ sales culture and I wouldn’t call that a perception, I’d call that a reality for many.
from that same link
The best opportunities were in the junkiest portion of the housing market: subprime. Pricing of subprime securities “was absurd,” Paulson says. “It didn’t make sense.” Subprime securities graded triple-B—in other words, those that the credit-rating agencies thought were just a tad better than junk—were trading for only one percentage point over risk-free Treasury bills. This absurdity appealed to Paulson as easy money.
“Vultures don’t have jobs, they live off the work of others. Snakes and cats don’t have jobs. They’re sneaky and conniving and take stuff from other people.”
50.5,
Perfect. You just described our Treas Sec..
Here is your TARP investment at work.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=axJLjGtgwDrM
This is barely round one for Wall St.
187 Lisoosh
Exactly. This is why we’re going to have a very hard time finding an agent when the time is right. None of the people I trust here on the blog work in NY.
Sean [190],
Orchestrated by the fed.
something to consider:
have a potluck dinner one night.
invite a friend or family member over.
spread the cost of a meal while building relations.
(but, keep it low key, i.e don’t dress to impress and don’t be bashful to bring a good dish of Boston Baked Beans)
SAS
“Boston Baked Beans”
just don’t give any to Essex, he has a gas problem.
;P
SAS
10 days until the new administration takes over so what’s the rush George?
Does Citigroup need a parting gift?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/09/AR2009010902846.html?hpid=topnews
I thought the NEW DEAL worked?!?!?!
“We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before, and it does not work… I say after eight years of this administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started — and an enormous debt to boot.”
– Henry Morgenthau (FDR’s Treasury Secretary)
We Read Goldman Sachs’ Mind-Numbing NYC Real Estate Report So You Don’t Have To (Kill Yourself)
Goldman: “New York apartment prices are very high relative to the observable fundamentals. Using three alternative yardsticks—price/rent, price/income, and affordability—we find that prices would need to decline by 35%-44% to return to the valuation levels seen in the 1995-1999 period, before the start of the recent boom.”
Translation: Think 15% down is bad? There’s another 30% to go. Wheee!
Goldman: “Under the (admittedly unrealistic) assumption that prices decline by the same percentage in each market segment, this type of drop would imply that a 1-bedroom condo whose price currently averages roughly $800,000 would decline to $480,000; a 2-bedroom condo would decline from $1.7 million to $1 million; and a 3-bedroom condo would decline from $3 million to $1.8 million.”
Translation: Look! We can do math!
Pretty funny commentary. I am amused at all these Glodman reports. We knew all along, but when they come out, everyone considers them smart.
195 Sean: “10 days until the new administration takes over so what’s the rush George?”
This is coordinated effort with the Messiah’s team. The One prefers that George does the dirty work (veto) so The One does not have. Current adm. is not going to distribute the money in anycase so you don’t have to worry. The One shovels the money.
176.Cindy says:
January 10, 2009 at 9:39 am
(181) Confused If you are implying that I am hopful out of dispair, you are wrong. I am taking the necessary steps to take care of myself and will do whatever is necessary given future events.
Actually, I agree with you. Unfortunately, there doesn’t appear to be a quiet way of removing the Power Brokers who facilitated this mess, as they control everything, including who you are allowed to vote for. The Reps represent the Reps, and the Dems represent the Dems, and neither represent the People, not in the closed clubs. We have two houses of Royalty. When King George taxed our tea, we dumped it and him. King George’s Tea Tax was insignificant compared to the onerous rules today which invade ever facet of our lives. Would have been funny though in the 1700’s to see King George require helmets and seat belts on horse riders. The start for real change in this Country will occur when the Sheeple wake up and refuse to vote in the next election. Third Party vote won’t work, they’ll contaminate that candidate. A National Write In for “John Q Freedom” may work, if it get’s more votes then the Royalty Parties. The point is only something drastic can change things. “O” and the recyled Clintonites can’t, as they were a big part of the problem. Be interesting to see, if Election Day failed to get a majority, rather majority voted for John Q Freedom or Jane Q Freedom. Wonder what the courts would say, if all Royalty Candidates were rejected.
Clotpoll,
Stop scaring people, look at grim’s charts, people are still buying homes. Now with 4% rates and unlimited mortgages from government, it has never been better time to buy a place. In fact if you believe financial Armageddon is coming, you should buy a place, because you will be able to pay off your mortgage with 2 paychecks and $ will be worth 0 in your bank account.I am can’t wait to buy a place in Hoboken or anywhere close to NYC as soon as prices <= rents. Stop the nonsense.
clotpol, I always don’t get you. If my house is worth one dollar or one million what do I care? The day I bought it I made the decidios that my monthly nut was $1,900 to own and $2,500 to rent. Soon my mortgage will be paid off and I am down to $700 a month. Also a person who is 50 years old should be 50% stocks and 50% bonds. Bonds are holding up, they can slowly liquidate the bond half while waiting for stocks to recover. Oil is down, gas is down, car prices are down and lots of things have fell in price. Big Ben and Hank telegraphed rates were falling back in August 2007, so anyone who cared about CD rates had plenty of time to roll over everything into 1-5 year cds before rates hit bottom in December 2008. Now many people have the chance to refinance. Very few people in the US have much common stock outside their 401K plan or restricted stock. For most of us a 40% drop in the 401K 25 years to retirement is sad but I ain’t jumping off a bridge.
Jamil you call that a plan? Shovel more money down a black hole?
There is no need for a veto unless they need to additional 350 billion to save the banks.
I say let them fail and give the money to the regional banks that don’t have billions in bucket shop CDS exposure.
btw clot pol I fully locked up my rates last fall. collected 6-7% tax free in munis is a nice feeling for the next 5-10 years. Enjoy the bomb shelter.
John,
Bonds are going to collapse from all this money they are pumping. Give it a few years.
FYI Coming Soon to the USA?!?!?!
Report: SKorean blogger arrested
SEOUL, South Korea – A South Korean blogger pleaded not guilty Saturday to charges that he spread false economic information on the Internet, a news report said, in a case that drew heated debate over freedom of speech.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_skorea_blogger_arrested
HEHEHE,
If everything is going to collapse, when are you moving to Cuba? It seems to be the only safe place in your logic.
To all:
Does anyone know if a short sale is used as a comp. in NJ???? As someone who wants to purchase a home, and has waited all these years, like many of you I am concerned about the bailout being used to save people who bought homes they shouldn’t have at the expense of people like us – prudent people who rented and waited. In someways I would support gov’t funded workouts – but ONLY if the principal reductions get reflected in the comps used by appraisers in real estate transations. I mean, if they allow all these people to stay in their homes – but they don’t allow the new home prices to be reflected in the market – then it just punishes all of us (but I guess keeps the current other homeowners happy.)
#205,
Grim, Clotpoll, BC, and Stu watch out, you could be next.
#15,
Hey NJ as&hole, what’s so racist about telling someone to find a more affordable place to live, if they can’t afford to live in this country? Before you start calling people names, think a little jack as&.
Frank,
Not at all. Money flows in and out of investments as the markets deteriorate and seek assets that are underpriced. My view is we will continue to see another 30-50% decline in equities over the next year or two. As that occurs the bubble in treasuries and “safe” corporate bonds will expand. Once inflation kicks in from all the funny money the worl’s governments are throwing around you will see money flow out of the “safe have” of bonds into commodities and commodity related stocks. That’s the roadmap. The only problem is the timing. Just watch the money flow.
Frank [208],
The liars/con men on WS and our banking cartel are first in line, led by King Henry.
lisoosh says:
January 10, 2009 at 10:30 am
“A big demand is unmet for trustworthy advice,” says Bob Frank, a professor at the Johnson School of Cornell University. “There’s a widespread perception that people were convinced to buy things based not on the best interests of the buyer but on the best interests of the seller.”
L: Bob Frank is a useless bozo with derivative ideas and a left-leaning pandering sensibility. I met him at a Cornell function in Monmouth County and left disgusted. He was a close-minded as he was egocentric.
“John says:
January 9, 2009 at 5:03 pm
HA – and what does he do with it dump your nugget off at the pawn shop. Been there done that. Even seen the gold vaults back in the day when I did audits. An asset that does not make money, costs money to store, costs money to insure and costs money to guard can only increase in a ponzi manner. Besides we are in deflation mode and gold is an inflation hedge, you are fighting the war too early”
John,
You are a rookie. Do you ever think before you type? I actually feel guilty responding. Think about what you stated, above, for awhile. Now, consider cycles, currency flows, trade barriers, current account defecits and debasement. After this, go back in history and pull up a Homestake Mining Chart. Make sure you pay special attention to the greatest deflationary period in our history. Have fun.
Grim,
This week’s report from the hinterlands – Hunterdon County Comp Killers
GSMLS recorded 4 sales and 70 new listings this week in Hunterdon County. One sale and 10 new listings made this list.
Hunterdon County Comp Killer:
MLS#: 2527000
8 PARTRIDGE RUN
Union Twp
SLD: 08/02/02 $817,679
SLD: 01/19/04 $875,000
OLP: 06/06/08 $979,000
SLD: 01/07/09 $775,000
DOM: 200
05.22% off 08/02 sale price
11.43% off 01/04 sale price
20.84% off 06/08 OLP
Hunterdon County FUTURE Comp Killers:
MLS#: 2626735
44 MAIN ST
Califon Boro
SLD: 10/03/05 $350,000
OLP: 01/08/09 $199,900
DOM: 2
42.89% off 10/05 sale price
MLS#: 2626589
6 ALEXANDRA WAY
Clinton Town
SLD: 05/19/05 $350,000
OLP: 01/09/09 $345,000
DOM: 1
01.43% off 10/05 sale price
MLS#: 2625690
66 ALLERTON RD
Clinton Twp
SLD: 04/27/07 $392,100
OLP: 01/07/09 $329,000
DOM: 3
16.10% off 04/07 sale price
MLS#: 2625643
37 Allerton Road
Clinton Twp
SLD: 09/12/05 $665,000
OLP: 01/07/09 $575,000
DOM: 3
13.64% off 09/05 sale price
MLS#: 2624510
630 ROSEMONT RINGOES RD
Delaware Twp
SLD: 10/20/06 $560,070
OLP: 01/05/09 $525,000
DOM: 5
06.27% off 10/06 sale price
MLS#: 2625866
12 SPRING MOUNTAIN RD
Lebanon Twp
SLD: 02/17/05 $380,000
OLP: 01/07/09 $335,000
DOM: 3
11.85% off 02/05 sale price
MLS#: 2625450 CO:
127 RARITAN RIVER RD
Lebanon Twp
SLD: 07/16/07 $580,000
OLP: 01/07/09 $499,900
DOM: 3
13.82% off 07/07 sale price
MLS#: 2626873
421 WILLOW CT
Raritan Twp
SLD: 09/14/06 $280,000
OLP: 01/08/09 $269,900
DOM: 2
03.61% off 09/06 sale price
MLS#: 2624577
101 FRANKLIN CT
Raritan Twp
SLD: 01/31/07 $285,000
OLP: 01/05/09 $272,000
DOM: 5
04.37% off 01/07 sale price
MLS#: 2624397
9 S MAIN ST
Stockton Boro
SLD: 10/06/06 $560,000
OLP: 01/05/09 $499,000
DOM: 5
10.90% off 10/06 sale price
Regarding TARP….I stick my neck out knowing that I place it in harm’s way.
For lis, bost, clot and sundry others…
#1 Correct me if you feel that I am mistaken, but while one can be offended by the magnitude of the program and the arbitrary application of the benenfits, what you are witnessing is not some great awe inspiring innovation of graft. All you are seeing is a public display of government in action. We have worked this way for 240 years, you are upset because you get to witness what is usually hidden?
#2 Let me restate September/October.
You have one million people who are looking at a mine field. They willingly walk into it. Some people walk through unscathed. Many step on mines. Some step on one and others two. As a result, some people need one tourniquet some two.
People are sitting in front of you bleeding to death. Do you concern yourself with the manufacturer of the tourniquets and how much money they make? Do you concern yourself with the medical professionals and how much money they make? Do you concern yourself with lecturing the wounded about what a bunch of stupid and/or greedy a%%holes they are? Do you concern yourself with the fairness of some people getting one tourniquet, some two, some none?
Once you are past triage, fine, say and do what you want……but I strongly disagree that Sept/Oct was any different than the above situation, regardless of how we found ourselves there….
unmod?
unmod re TARP
199 confused: “The start for real change in this Country will occur when the Sheeple wake up and refuse to vote in the next election.”
The real change in this country occurs when people make a concerted, simultaneous effort and refuse to pay taxes (real tax revolt). Let’s start with state income and property taxes. If family saves $10k in property taxes, they can pool that money (or say $5k) directly into the local school or teacher.
State cannot hunt down or punish everybody (on second thought, if 60% of population are parasitic leeches who do not pay any taxes it is only the productive 40% who can refuse..)
Beer,
Great work as usual.
Sub 2002 price? That’s stunning.
196: The New Deal didn’t work — World War II worked.
#210,
Now you are making sense, although I may not agree with you.
Frank says:
January 10, 2009 at 12:54 pm
#15,
Hey NJ as&hole, what’s so racist about telling someone to find a more affordable place to live, if they can’t afford to live in this country? Before you start calling people names, think a little jack as&.
your consistently racist comments toward minorities is what irks me. either you have something small in your pants or in your wallet. or, you’re just upset that you can’t compete with smarter, harder-working minorities.
Chi – I couldn’t really care if Bob Frank wears his his underpants on his head.
I’ll repeat the quote;
““There’s a widespread perception that people were convinced to buy things based not on the best interests of the buyer but on the best interests of the seller.””
1. Are you telling me that the perception doesn’t exist?
2. Are you telling me that a considerable section of people who SELL things for a living don’t put their own needs ahead of their prospects/clients? Really?
I sold things, still sell things (if you consider fundraising selling an idea, and I do). I spend most of my time with people who sell or are being sold. I can absolutely tell you that prospects are pi$$ed and mistrustful and that salespeople in large numbers don’t listen or concern themselves unduly with their prospects needs and wants, just look at their sales figure/goal.
Sorry dude, but you have a bad habit – when people post quotes you don’t like you go after the integrity of the quoted individual, be it this guy, or Peter Schiff or Mike Morgan or whoever, rather than deal with the issue at hand. Then you assume the quoter holds the individual in unrealistically high esteem.
I’m Gen X, a round 40. I don’t hold anybody in high esteem, far too cynical for that. I’ve travelled, worked, experienced war zones, recessions, seen bread lines and despair and watched irrational exhuberance. You may not agree with things I say, but please give me credit for actually being capable of rational thought and being able to extrapolate from personal experience.
Thank you.
#214,
willwork4beer, people are still asking these kind of prices in Hunterdon County?
Wow, where’s the recession?
chi #215 – you’re missing the wood for the trees.
I’m not mad/disappointed at TARP because it is government in action. I’m not mad at TARP because some bankers got bonuses.
I’m mad at TARP because it fixed NOTHING. Because it threw good money after bad. Because the recession/depression will still come, still happen, be of equal magnitude and cause the EXACT SAME AMOUNT OF SUFFERING. All that was achieved was to allow ineffectual financial managers who were blindsided by something they should have seen coming cover their own behinds.
Why on earth SHOULDN’T I be mad?
PROVE to me right now that TARP fixed things and stopped the bleeding.
#222,
The problem with your logic is the fact that I am immigrant/minority myself. I came to this country with $20 in my packet. So I know about hard-working minorities, because it’s me.
ChiFi – triage is fine is you have a bullet wound, or even are missing a limb but you cannot apply triage or a tourniquet to someone who took a direct 81 mm high explosive white phosphorus mortar round, there is nothing left to triage just pieces to pick up and put into bags.
Securitzation is dead, and the rotting stink of of CDS is still in the air. What is needed to get rid of that stink is to for someone to dig a hole and play taps.
And don’t even start me on Jamil and his ridiculous contentions that anybody that didn’t vote for MC automatically idolizes O.
His only excuse is that he spends all day reading Freerepublic, the Drudge Report and Michelle Malkin and keeps telling himself that the MSM is biased.
Off to buy some pretzels from the Amish.
lisoosh says:
January 10, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Sorry dude, but you have a bad habit – when people post quotes you don’t like you go after the integrity of the quoted individual, be it this guy, or Peter Schiff or Mike Morgan or whoever, rather than deal with the issue at hand. Then you assume the quoter holds the individual in unrealistically high esteem. I’m Gen X, a round 40. I don’t hold anybody in high esteem, far too cynical for that. I’ve travelled, worked, experienced war zones, recessions, seen bread lines and despair and watched irrational exhuberance. You may not agree with things I say, but please give me credit for actually being capable of rational thought and being able to extrapolate from personal experience.
????
Other than using “L:” where were you even mentioned in my post? I met the guy, and gave my opinion of him.
Regarding peddlers of opinion, it’s hard. My gift/curse is that I am one of those “what you are speaks so loud I cannot hear what you say” types. People who deal with me begin to realize it and it completely creeps them out, until they understand that it is just who I am….I am not to be feared. Why do you think I chose to change careers and do the job that I do.
Chi.
““what you are speaks so loud I cannot hear what you say” types.”
That’s fine, and I would define myself as just as cynical. I’m always looking for the ulterior motive.
That said – you really do it. when somebody quotes another individual you always rant at the quoted person, rather than focus on what is said, which would be the point of any quote.
Everybody has an agenda. No question. Doesn’t mean they can’t come up with interesting nuggets that can be debated.
One more pre pretzel rant.
Makes me laugh to hear Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity or that ridiculous Elizabeth Hasselbeck rant on endlessley about the Main Stream Media.
They all spend in-ordinate amounts of time on our radios, TV and magazines saying exactly whatever they want.
They ARE the MSM. How much more mainstream can you get than an hour a day to spout your views, unedited to the entire nation on public owned airwaves?
SAS, 193 Re Potluck Dinner..
I can bring the rice pudding!!
I unabashedly admit, I make really good rice pudding. Real vanilla beans, milk, eggs, [other proprietary stuff!]
sl
The train is picking up speed & can’t wait till I can finally get in the market at a resonable price. You could afford a house in the “old” days when you saved 20% to put down. A house would cost 20 times your annual rent.
$1K rent x 12 months = $12,000
$12,000 x 20 years = $240,000 purchase price of a home. 20% down & you’re good to go & you can call this house your home. To all of those who are waiting, continue to do so & that one great house at a bargain price will come your way…
Perception is Reality in this Society, regardless of Truth. Classic example;
Private Medical Insurance forces you to buy Generic Drugs, rather than Brand Names, because they say the FDA gaurantees it’s Safety and Equivalency. The FDA meanwhile does a mea culpa, because Foreign Countries like China produce adulterated Generics and they can’t inspect their factories. The FDA Scientists then petition Congress because their FDA managers are corrupt. Meanwhile you take bad drugs, to save Insurers money, all undercover of the Government/Business Model. This repeats itself continually throughout Government. Kruschev was right when he told Kennedy, we will bury you from within. Our Government is corrupt beyond belief. That includes the Kennedy Clan which lobotimized their own daughter/sister.
For this imaginary potluck: I can make mean meatballs. Just plain meatballs in spaghetti sauce. Drop some in a crusty sub roll…yummmmmmm.
Also, I can boil water, sometimes.
I don’t touch the oven thingie. It gets too hot.
SL:
I think about you nearly everyday. When I’m in the thick of things and everything is hectic, I am jogged by the memories of things you have written which make me remember my “teeny” place in the big wide world.
And if that’s alongside someone like you who trudges up the mountain of life with more than her fair share of the load, then I am better person for having “known” you.
L: my wife caught me composing the above post…she said “I thought this was a real estate website; you look as if you are going through therapy?” :(
time to go feed hay w-hores…
mi amigo no esta aqui hoy.
“you are upset because you get to witness what is usually hidden?”
Chi,
I am running out, will answer, in detail, tomorrow. One quick observation, who the fcuk are you now, Kreskin? You’re now telling me why I am upset? This site never ceases to amaze me.
This site makes me appear almost normal.
My new tee shirt: Stampout and eliminate redundancies. Support minicipal consolidation now.
Rice pudding – the ultimate comfort food. I’ll bring the homemade chicken noodle soup with tarragon and the homemade bread.
sean (227)-
Exactly. The patient is dead. The trasfusions (money) are being injected into a dead person.
And that’s the view of somebody who thinks the gubmint’s actions are credible. I don’t think they’re credible, so my take is that it’s all a smokescreen for the biggest daylight bank robbery in US history.
John (201)-
Your financial position is patently clear. You are a mash up of cheapskate and turbocharged bond daddy, riding the latest bubble. You are not a playa in the RE market at the present time. Congratulations.
However, all your fave institutions and their illusory balance sheets have been built on toxic paper. Now the center of the charade otherwise known as the US economy is a game of propping up Bernie (see, Weekend at), passing the hot potato and pretending that worthless securities are AAA. The whole economy- as we know it- has been built on RE, so you are at least indirectly a playa, even if you don’t want to be.
BTW, keep an eye on the surface tension of the muni bubble. It’s gonna last about a nanosecond…and it’s gonna be brutal when it goes bust.
V L or \ says:
January 9, 2009 at 10:00 pm
V –
Wall Street never recovered to the late 1980s and late 1990s peaks, measuring by New York City’s financial employment. See chart 3.
http://www.newyorkfed.org/research/current_issues/ci14-7.pdf
During the bust that followed the 1980s, nobody predicted the late 1990s dotcom and corporate cap ex boom.
At the beginning of the bust that followed the late 1990s, nobody predicted the real estate boom.
My point is that another boom is likely to appear that stimulates the recovery of the New York City financial industry. Because it is impossible to predict the nature of the next boom doesn’t mean another boom will fail to occur.
I’m more pessimistic about a New Jersey recovery than a New York City recovery, and chart 1 in the link shows that a New York City recovery doesn’t guarantee that New Jersey will recover too.
Where’s Kettle and all his obscure data? Does anyone know how unemployment was calculated in the 1930’s vs. how it is calculated now? Using 1930’s methodology, what would our 7.2% morph into? Hey, it’s cold and rainy and I’m bored.
iousa was on cnn today.
mind-boggling.
88 pgc: yeah, what you said.
108 SAS: you’re right.
so here’s what i’m doing- got myself on the community garden’s communal plot subcommittee, and this afternoon i got people liking the idea of sharing the harvest (even after my friend said “but this is a garden, not a soup kitchen”…) i didn’t want to say “not *yet* it isn’t” i just nodded until people agreed with me. (i’ll save you all from the details, shall i?)
hoping that will help, as the garden itself is next to the projects. folks in the neighborhood have to walk about an hour to get to the closest store that sells fresh fruit and veg.
it’s a small thing, but i’m hoping it lays the groundwork for sharing the harvest in a constructive way in the future.
other people have already mentioned supporting local food banks.
any other concrete ideas?
(and sorry if you already went here, i’m reading in between life moments and can’t catch up properly until the little ones are asleep)
Elizabet Warren on TARP accountability, interesting point she makes here of establishing a product safety commission for financial products, just as we have for other products like toasters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g_ALDyHc6E&
re#247 outofstater
Here is a Reuter’s article from yesterday that should answer your questions.
Great Depression jobs parallel may not be far flung
Thu Jan 8, 2009 9:37pm EST
By Pedro Nicolaci da Costa
NEW YORK (Reuters) – When economists tell us the current U.S. slump could never turn into another Great Depression, they all point to one thing: one of four Americans was out of work in the 1930s.
But since the definition of joblessness has changed over the years, this expert assessment might be too rosy.
As many as 25 percent of Americans were unemployed during the days of bread lines that symbolized the Depression, but that figure is more than three times the current 6.7 percent unemployment rate, the economists say. Even the most pessimistic estimates only foresee the rate rising barely above 10 percent.
“We are in a very, very different place than the U.S. economy was in the 1930s,” James Poterba, president of the National Bureau of Economic Research told a recent Reuters Summit.
Or are we? Figures collected for Reuters by John Williams, from the electronic newsletter Shadowstats.com, suggest that, while we are not there yet, the comparison is not as outlandish as it might initially seem.
By his count, if unemployment were still tallied the way it was in the 1930s, today’s jobless rate would be closer to 16.5 percent — more than double the stated rate.
“I expect that unemployment in the current downturn, which will be particularly deep and protracted, eventually will rival, if not top, the 25 percent seen in the Great Depression,” Williams said.
He and other critics have one particular sticking point with the current way of measuring unemployment: the treatment of discouraged workers.
Under President Lyndon Johnson, the government decided individuals who had stopped looking for work for more than a year were no longer part of the labor force. This dramatically decreased the jobless rate reported by the government.
“Both part-time workers wanting full-time work and discouraged workers tend to make the unemployment rate lower than it would otherwise be,” says Robert Schenk, professor of economics at St. Joseph’s College, Indiana.
The latest report, due on Friday, is expected to show another month of more than half a million job losses in December, and a jump in the unemployment rate to 7 percent.
However, some economists, including Kenneth Rogoff at Harvard University, now say joblessness could top 11 percent. Under Williams’ methodology, that picture might look much more like the Great Depression.
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE5077TM20090109
sl – LOVE rice pudding.
No specialities here. I cook by mood. My new favorite addiction is ful medames – Egyptian style fava beans. Cheap, warm, filling tasty and surprisingly addictive.
I also render my own chicken fat for matzo balls.
This crowd is definitely not representative of Jersey at large. I’d say essex is the most Jersey-ish.
Even though I have only lived here for seven years…(originally from IL…) I assimilate well.
CHAOS!!! On the roads today…almost got taken out by a soccer mom…..seriously.
241….The ‘New Normal’….is…..(discuss)
I am starting to see SAS as a new dark super hero….a little….cinema verite….
I need to buy a used Minivan ASAP for my family of 5. How do I go about doing it. Should I just browse the internet for dealers nearby and talk to them. I need a good deal.
What about Repo auctions. How do I find information on that. I hear that it is a good way of finding great deals. Any info appreciated.
Since this IS a real estate blog, I took some pics of my “NJ real estate” (ha!) when I was out shoveling schitt.
I took advantage of the snow…it makes it look nice.
Before you tear it apart, we bought it without running POTABLE water and have been buried in rehabbing it, ever since. My husband says, “if it wasn’t finished in the first 200 years, what makes you think I’m gonna get it done?”
A pic from my bedroom window showing my horsie named Eeyore eating a stick…
A pic of the goat crossing “her” bridge…
Casa de Spam… and my husband…and assorted animals…
States with worst jobless rates share root causes
Unemployment hot spots all over the map, but worst states share housing, manufacturing pain
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090109/unemployment_worst_states.html
grim can u unmod my post…it has 3 links…kaythnxbai
Zack says:
I need to buy a used Minivan ASAP for my family of 5. How do I go about doing it. Should I just browse the internet for dealers nearby and talk to them. I need a good deal.
What about Repo auctions. How do I find information on that. I hear that it is a good way of finding great deals. Any info appreciated.
Wow. Completely wrong way to go about it.
You wrote:
I need to buy (snip) ASAP (snip).
I need a good deal.
1. You can have one, but not both. Pick one.
2. Stay AWAY from auctions. Dear gawd, why don’t people LISTEN!!!! Cars at an auction FOR A REASON!!!!! Dealers will sell trade-ins that are good and send THE JUNK to auction.
3. Repos. Hahahahahahahahahaha. Those are about the LAST vehicle I’d want to own and put my family in. The ones that weren’t sabotaged are completely devoid of maintenance upkeep.
If YOU knew the repo man was coming for your car, would YOU have the oil changed and drive it nicely? Nah. Go ahead and drive it over the curb and run the oil out. #$%^ it.
Outofstater
ask and you shall receieve.
current employment stats are U-3. the “Real” unemployment stats are U-6. U-6 is fairly close to what would have been calculated in the 30’s
U3 = 7.3%
U6 = 13.5%
Mish looks at the recent #’s in detail:
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/01/jobs-contract-12th-straight-month.html
National Geographic this month on the gold rush, check the pics and the story.
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/01/gold/randy-olson-photography
167, stu: i think money stress brings out the extremes in people and their relatijnships. (personally, i’m holding onto my husband with all limbs. i told him, “we’ll be stronger together than apart” and he said “damn straight”)
233, recipe? i love rice pudding…
i can bring split pea soup! (with barley, it becomes a complete protein… i think… or at least more delicious.)
252, fava beans: recipe? they (fava/ broad beans/ lima beans) are so good to grow (late autumn-winter vegetable-protein that doesn’t take up much space) but i hate how they taste. :(
i got a “community survey” in the mail from the census bureau. i was all excited, as it means we’ll be shiny little data points. (less excited about the part where they say it’s illegal *not* to send it back, and that they will be comparing what we told them with what we told other gov’t agencies. yeesh. good thing we don’t fudge our tax filings.)
more anecdotes
a friend is a manager at a grocery chain in NJ. they said that as of Jan 1 they have seen a huge spike in declined credit card purchases.
so either these people maxed out on Xmas gifts, or they arent paying their bill.
mmmm fava beans chianti and human brain!
http://tinyurl.com/a2zyc5
before anyone calls me out….
the original line
http://tinyurl.com/a66d85
Zack:
Should be a great time to buy a car. I can’t imagine a dealer even putting up a fight on a used car and, from what I’ve read, there are some great new car deals out there.
I purchase three cars from enterprise car sales over the years. All low-mileage Nissans. Never a problem although some people would tell you that rental cars get abused.
Last two cars: both new. Honda Pilot and BMW 325. I’d buy another Honda in a second. I’d buy new because there never seems to be a good used Hondas.
Let us know what happens.
So O’s plan will now create 4.1M jobs? Next week? 5M? 6M?
Anybody else feel like he’s making this up as he goes along?
d2b: Maybe, but creating government jobs is easy. Just like printing money.
I thought this was from the Onion, but apparently it is true. Must be nice to be part of the New World Order:
http://dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/79059
“BRITAIN’S vital North Sea oil and gas supplies are to be taken over by Europe under emergency plans revealed for the first time in Brussels yesterday.
EU leaders are demanding control of British energy reserves to prevent power blackouts that have left millions of eastern Europeans without heat in Arctic weather due to the Russian gas blockade.”
So O’s plan will now create 4.1M jobs? Next week? 5M? 6M?
Anybody else feel like he’s making this up as he goes along?
he’s just keeping the tradition going of making ridiculous promises to the taxpayers and not coming through with any of them during his presidency.
Where’s the recession? You would think they would stop eating. No food shortage in this country.
Obese Americans now outweigh the merely overweight
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE50863H20090109
“Obese Americans now outweigh the merely overweight”
I feel bad for your ignorance so I will briefly explain why this is the case…
The less money that people have to spend on food, the more likely it is that they eat a diet that is higher in calories and lower in healthy proteins. This was obvious if you watch the Katrina debacle unfold. Those who were so poor that they couldn’t escape the path of the storm were fatter than 17th century royalty.
You can get a 1200 calorie big Mac for $2, or a healthy salad for $6. Which one will you choose if you have little money?
stu,
even better, the quality of said food is horrible. it consists of large amounts of HFCS (High FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP) and other compounds that can effect normal metabolism
I met ChiFi in person at a GTG. He is as blunt as a highlighter. I too can be that way, only I am not quite as learned as many of you. I tend to be way too anecdotal. What I am willing to do though is admit when I am wrong and I try with great effort to see both sides of a story.
What separates this blog from all others, besides the overall high level of intellect, is our collective ability to tolerate each others opinions. I think this is the true draw of this blog and Grim should be commended for his ability to keep things relatively unmoderated, yet he is able to maintain some healthy debate.
We really need to do a GTG soon since there are so many new faces and it would be great to see the people behind the posts. The potluck idea is a great one. My workplace did an employee-sponsered potluck holiday dinner and it was 300% better than any of the catered parties that our employer formerly paid for. Grim…let’s make this happen. I will personally volunteer some of my free time to organize it to bring this wonderful idea to fruition.
275 Stu: lack of money is only part of the explanation. If the same people get rich (e.g. win lottery) do you think they eat more healthy?
There are a lot of poor people in this country who eat very healthy, especially in some immigration communities. Also, they probably use less money for food than the obese McD/Katrina crowd.
spam, 237
[blushing] thanks…
sl
Lisoosh, outofstater, anyone who loves rice pudding…
I can make buckets… just ask Nom
sl
So Jamil,
What is the rest of the equation? Cultural tendency to eat fattening food or just lack of nutrition knowledge?
Please don’t tell me that the Dem’s are responsible!
plus, when you have no security net (unsure where the next meal is coming from, let alone the next rent payment) it makes sense to load up on food. fat is the safest way to take it with you.
hello, stress-eating. and it’s not just the poor. didn’t someone post about the rich people’s personal trainers noticing their clients gaining a lot of weight lately? they’re just gaining it on organic locally sourced whatever food.
Stu:
I agree completely. Inner-city restaurants consist of Fried Chicken joints, Pizza places, and Chinese foods. Most don’t even have a decent supermarket. No salad in the ghetto.
271 jamil– daily express views the eu the way fox news views the un. perhaps, says british hubby, even more paranoid.
the bbc doesn’t mention the story, so i’m unconvinced.
No Salad in the Ghetto….sounds like the name of a million selling album.
RE FOOD
its partially inertia. the people who are now adults grew up on McD’s pizza, fires, etc. its what they know. i read an article the other day discussing how little many people know about actually eating healthy.
I am still waiting for the daily forum topic:
NJ Government tit suckers.
This is where true feelings will come out. You want to talk about armageddon? Gold? Bomb shelters? How about Civil War 2. Lets take a look at the parties in play.
The North:
a.) Teachers
b.) Police
c.) Union workers
d.) The disabled, meth heads, crack heads, the obese, elderly on Vanco drips and ventilators
e.) Illegal aliens
f.) The happily unemployed
VS.
The South:
a.) Small business owners
b.) Farmers
c.) Healthcare professionals
d.) Some white collar professionals
c.) The ideological constitutionalists
Who would win?
How would the battle play out and where?
I know what side I am on. Come get some you loser left winged, entitled, government working f heads.
No salad in the Ghetto? That’s brilliant!
stu,
an NJRereport potluck gtg????? I make a mean coffee cake that is horrible for you but tastes fantastic! sugar, cinnamon, butter, apples, butter, sugar, cinnamon, biscuits……
jamil 286…
what??????
284 alia: I agree that it is probably the most honest media in the UK.
Also, the article includes full quotes from the main UK opposition leader:
“Shadow Foreign Secretary William Hague said: “EU Commission president Jose Manuel Barroso is right to say that the EU needs to help eastern Europe with its energy security. But giving the EU control over our national energy reserves is totally the wrong way to go about it.”
Re: Potluck
I can cook a whole mess of stuff. Just say when and where. And for how many.
“No salad in the ghetto”. I think that’s the name of my new project. Thanks!
clott,
i am in the same camp as you. what we are seeing is not an accident and not unexpected. it is the biggest bank heist in history
a piece from another blog…
The revolving doors between Washington and Wall Street are swinging like never before. Lawrence Summers and Robert Rubin are the finance powerhouses in the upcoming Obama administration. They were in the exact same place 10 years ago. This time, they bring along a protégé in Tim Geithner, who will be the fall guy if all goes wrong. And they know it will go wrong; they’ve seen it before. They’re not dumb. They’re just sick, not stupid. They know it will go wrong, because everything they’ve done so far has failed. Only, that’s not what they see. They can’t see it, because they are gambling addicts. And as you can find out in Gambling Anonymous meetings, the addicts are masters in distorting their own perception of reality. Rubin and Summers differ from most addicts in that they are in positions to control what is legal, which is quite close to what is real, and what is not.
The November 12, 1999 repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act (officially named the Banking Act of 1933), enforced through the signing into law of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act by Slick Billy Clinton, gave them access to depositors’ money, and thus made it legal to use people’s savings for “investments”. 9 years later, those savings were all gone. Today they have an even larger pool of dough: the money of all Americans, and all of their children. This is what you’re looking at when you see Henry Paulson, Barney Frank, Ben Bernanke or Barack Obama talk about bail-outs and rescue plans. It’s all about providing the world’s most megalomaniac gamblers with cash for their addictions. There’s nothing else, that’s all there is.
The banking industry had tried to get rid of Glass-Steagall for a decade, but, aside from minor changes in 1980 and 1982, it wouldn’t be until Rubin and Summers were at the helm, as Treasury Secretary and Deputy Secretary, that they succeeded in pushing through the repeal. After setting up the procedure, Rubin left the government on July 1, 1999, and joined the newly formed Citigroup, leaving Summers as Treasury Secretary to execute the plan and have President Clinton sign the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act into law.
Citigroup was put together in 1998 by combining Citibank and insurance slash finance company Travelers. The only way this combination made sense was for the Glass-Steagall Act to be gone, since the Act barred banks merging with insurers. Citi would have had to shed many valuable assets within the next 2-5 years to remain within the law. But then-CEO Sandy Weill stated at the time: “that over that time the legislation will change…we have had enough discussions to believe this will not be a problem“. In other words, the fix was in. The fact that Rubin joined the company months before Clinton signed Gramm-Leach-Bliley only serves to confirm that.
Because of these preparations, Citi was off to a flying start in the new “free world”, as was Goldman Sachs, Rubin’s longtime (1966-1992) employer before he joined the Clinton administration. At Goldman, one of Rubin’s pupils was Henry Paulson, who would become Treasury Secretary under Bush 43. Larry Summers doesn’t have a Goldman or Citi background. He, like Princeton’s Ben Bernanke, represents another piece of the power pie, having served for a long time at Harvard university and the World Bank. In that same vein, Rubin is presently co-chair for the Council on Foreign Relations.
Of course the Fed chairman during all this time was Alan Greenspan. In 2000, the trio of Rubin, Summers and Greenspan successfully argued for the deregulation of the derivatives trade. This enabled CIti and Goldman Sachs, as well as other major Wall Street players, to increase their bets and gambles manyfold. And let me repeat: it took just 9 years for them to burn through all customer deposits. And then some.
You think people up here eat bad? Go down South to a Po Folks (all you can eat; quality akin to hog slop).
You might as well inject a marble into somebody’s main artery.
281 stu: “What is the rest of the equation? Cultural tendency to eat fattening food or just lack of nutrition knowledge?”
You tell me. The fact is that not all poor people in this country eat unhealthy. It is only certain segment of poor population. Especially some poor immigrants (mainly from Asia) seem to eat healthy and avoid McDs/pizza slices.
(276) Stu – That sounds like fun and you/Gator/Nom can bring the Coastline…
Failure To Deal With Bad Loans May Extend Crisis-OECD
The failure of the U.S. and European governments to remove bad loans from banks before they are recapitalized may prolong the financial crisis, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development said Thursday. In its twice-yearly publication on trends in financial markets, the Paris-based think tank said past experience has demonstrated that three steps are needed to deal with a banking crisis. According to the OECD, the authorities first need to guarantee deposits in order to stop bank runs. Then they must cleanse the banks of bad loans, before recapitalizing the banks. The OECD said skipping the second step “is a potential risk for the recent decisions of the U.K., E.U. (European Union) and U.S.”
http://www.easybourse.com/bourse-actualite/marches/update-failure-to-deal-with-bad-loans-may-extend-crisis-oecd-593047
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_03/b4116017130825.htm
Businessweek Maria Bartiromo with Nouriel and Amar Bhide
Wall Street Is Big Donor to Inauguration
President-elect Barack O,bama has banned corporations and big donors from funding his Jan. 20 inauguration. But 90% of donations received so far have been raised by well-heeled fund-raisers, including Wall Street executives whose companies have received billions of dollars in federal bailout money. A total of 207 fund-raisers have collected $24.8 million of the $27.3 million in contributions disclosed by Mr. O,bama through Thursday, according to an analysis by nonpartisan campaign finance group Public Citizen. Wall Street employees, as a group, have been the biggest single source of these private donations, according to the analysis. Much of their donations — $5.7 million total — has been channeled through financial-services executives who each have bundled together donations worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123146096981566339.html
Sean and Kettle – Thanks! Knew I could count on you!
disclaimer: i am not a finance or economics expert, simply as layman in these fields….
That said, the idea that people should not save during periods of economic uncertainty and should instead continue or expand spending is rediculous. While it may make sense from a large scale economics view it completely ignores the social aspects involved.
As unemployment and economic uncertainty increases, the only logical action for an individual is to increase savings in expectations of lean times.
Its the classic Aesop fable pf the ant and the grasshopper.
You cannot ignore the effects of micro structure on a macro system when you have highly complex systems, without first verifying that there is no effect. That is a common theme in most technical field such as engineer mathematics, biology, etc. And i can speak authoritatively from an engineering perspective.
The keynesian philosophy of spending your way out of a recession violates this idea.
Only when the economy slips into recessions do free-spending consumers remember the virtues of thrift and rebuild their savings safety nets. It took the economic insights of John Maynard Keynes to realise that such retrenchment could be disastrous for the economy as a whole – however rational it might seem to the individuals. Writing during the Great Depression, Keynes described this as the paradox of thrift – the more people saved, the more demand for goods and services fell. In a 1931 BBC radio talk, he said the urge to save more than usual at times of recession was “utterly harmful and misguided”. When there was a surplus of labour, saving merely added to it – creating a vicious spiral of increasing unemployment.
but wait it gets better (this is not a joke)!!!!!
The next logical step, although it may be politically controversial, would be to do the opposite of what the Tories suggest. Instead of reducing taxes on interest payments, the Government could tax all bank deposits and other risk-free savings. This would create a negative risk-free interest rate, encouraging savers either to invest in property, shares and other productive assets – or simply to save less and consume more. In either case, the result would be more consumption and physical investment, less unemployment and faster recovery from the slump.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/anatole_kaletsky/article5469589.ece
“GM and Chrysler technically are bankrupt and Chrysler is a step away from death.” And this is news?
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090110/AUTO01/901100431
Hey, bush authorized waterboarding for “fact finding” and waterboarding is currently classified as NOT TORTURE. So can we have Elizabeth Warren Water Board Paulson, bernanke and a few bank CEO’s to find out where the money went?
Stu says:
January 10, 2009 at 7:05 pm
“Obese Americans now outweigh the merely overweight”
I feel bad for your ignorance so I will briefly explain why this is the case…
Stu, you can explain basic stuff like this to our resident KKK member until you’re blue in the face, and he’ll never get it. I feel especially bad for his wife/kids/friends, assuming he has any of them.
Tanks could roll through Jersey City in an effort to maintain Martial Law, and he’d still ask, “I went to McDonald’s today and the line was 10 deep. Where’s the recession?”
kettle: personally, I’d prefer the h3llfire method, with its 15 second due process.
Clotpoll says:
January 10, 2009 at 7:39 pm
You think people up here eat bad? Go down South to a Po Folks (all you can eat; quality akin to hog slop).
You might as well inject a marble into somebody’s main artery.
clot: my experience was at a Shoney’s in central Michigan….250-400 pound people eating unlimited breakfast…scrapple mystery meat, with bacon, 4 eggs, greasy sugar sauce piled on top, and they topped off with a blanket dusting of powdered sugar.
chicagofinance says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
January 10, 2009 at 8:36 pm
grim unmod
Q to the board….how do people discover the mortgage liens on a particular property? I am curious about something in Eastern Monmouth County.
grim, in mod
The next logical step, although it may be politically controversial, would be to do the opposite of what the Tories suggest. Instead of reducing taxes on interest payments, the Government could tax all bank deposits and other risk-free savings. This would create a negative risk-free interest rate, encouraging savers either to invest in property, shares and other productive assets – or simply to save less and consume more. In either case, the result would be more consumption and physical investment, less unemployment and faster recovery from the slump.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/anatole_kaletsky/article5469589.ece
if this garbage is ever put in place, you’ll definitely see riots. the idea that people be forced to spend $ is foolish and stupid and will encourage many to break the rules (or just get the heck out of the country), not pay taxes, and never return.
here are the countries where the US can’t go after you for tax (if i understand extradition): “Afghanistan, Algeria, Andorra, Angola, Armenia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Cape Verde, the Central African Republic, Chad, the China (People’s Republic of China), the Union of the Comoros, Congo, Democratic Republic of the, Cote d’ Ivoire, Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, Gabon, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Indonesia, Jordan, Kosovo, Kuwait, Laos, Lebanon, Libya, Madagascar, the Maldives, Mali, the Marshall Islands, Mauritania, the Federated States of Micronesia, Moldova, Mongolia, Montenegro, Mozambique, Myanmar, Namibia, Nepal, Niger, Oman, Qatar, the Russian Federation, Rwanda, Samoa, São Tomé & Príncipe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Serbia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Togo, Tunisia, Uganda, Vanuatu, Vietnam, Yemen, and Zimbabwe.”
chi, 309
title search??
sl
Chifi 309
here you go
http://oprs.co.monmouth.nj.us/oprs/clerk/clerkhome.aspx?op=basic
Monmouth county has its public records including mortgage documents online.
enjoy!
Winter GTG potluck:
I’ll bring the cheese course: Poached pears served with a wedge of Tuxford & Tebutt Stilton and a glass of port. BYO cigars.
chiFi…
http://tax1.co.monmouth.nj.us/cgi-bin/prc6.cgi?menu=index&ms_user=glou&passwd=data&district=0801&mode=11
ChiFi,
Ooops wrong link…hang on
…i know some folks in Namibia… you can swim with the dolphins there… not sure their politics are very stable… but that could just be my friend getting into trouble. (why do i always hang out with the troublemakers?)
Chifi-
If you don’t know the lot and block # go to the NJ Tax records search. You can find lot and block by either the address or owners name.
kettle got it…
You don’t see how much they actually owe, but you can amortize to get a decent guess….
question for the tax guru’s….
if Madoff’s operation was a ponzi scheme, then could his investors attempt to recover taxes paid on “interest” from their madoff investment, if what they were given was not interest on their investment but essentially a portion of their own money being handed back to them?
And nobody mentioned my missing links 259…
Since this IS a real estate blog, I took some pics of my “NJ real estate” (ha!) when I was out shoveling schitt.
I took advantage of the snow…it makes it look nice.
Before you tear it apart, we bought it without running POTABLE water and have been buried in rehabbing it, ever since. My husband says, “if it wasn’t finished in the first 200 years, what makes you think I’m gonna get it done?”
A pic from my bedroom window showing my horsie named Eeyore eating a stick…
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b385/damonr/100_2132.jpg
A pic of the goat crossing “her” bridge…
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b385/damonr/100_2134.jpg
Casa de Spam… and my husband…and assorted animals…
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b385/damonr/100_2150.jpg
I miss snow.
Thanks for the pics.
Pat…
lol… don’t forget you automatically get served mud with any snow you order…
Spam- Great place!
Spam
I want to visit the Eeyore! ANd btw, I love that you chose that name.
so pretty.
but i have a fear of old houses’ heating systems. so i will enjoy the view from a warm afar. :)
Chi Jamil et al,
The Daily Express has always had a right wing bias. I think throwing an Sem or Anti-Sem label at the BBC is unfair. While they may not hit the mark every time, they do try to achieve editorial freedom for their staff. They have a bigger issue with incompetence and shooting themselves in the foot.
One of the only places for unbiased reporting in the UK is the Financial Times.
One thing you need to understand about Europe is that a lot of the people think the Palestinians have a point and don’t mind saying so. To have the same opinion in the US, gets you cast as a Right wing, Mus supporting Terr0ri1st.
Alia,
I love old houses.
The heat is fine. But now that you mention it, my husband was just remarking the other day that sealing areas where drafts come in is like shoveling schitt against the tide…
I actually have a draft coming up thru my floorboards in a 2nd storey room; the floorboards sit over an empty space below that sits between a chimney and the sheetrock around it. The wind comes thru the clapboards and into the “blank space” and then up thru the floorboards above.
Just keeping the fuel heating companies in business, I guess :)
PGC:
“gets you cast as a Right wing, Mus supporting Terr0ri1st.”
you meant left wing, terrierist-hugging liberal, no?
#334 Spam
Depends who you talk to. Its one of those arguments where you get shot by both sides.
You get Right wing as if you support the other side you must be anti !sreal
#235 Boo Ya,
I don’t understand this. Where do you get “20 times your annual rent” from? In my area, homes are less than that and they still ain’t moving.
You could afford a house in the “old” days when you saved 20% to put down. A house would cost 20 times your annual rent.
$1K rent x 12 months = $12,000
$12,000 x 20 years = $240,000 purchase price of a home. 20% down & you’re good to go & you can call this house your home.
Any securitization professionals looking for work?? Mexico is the place to be. No racism here, just pure facts.
“Mexico closed out the month of December with deals from four originators. Spreads were well out from earlier in the year, but these transactions at least made it through, and market investors bought in as well.”
http://www.securitization.net/article.asp?id=1&aid=8695
Hoboken RE sales are still strong. They are still fetching
$533 for a sq ft. Where’s the recession?
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pBISMjuVKyc5N-0b7HIj_PQ&output=html&gid=17&single=true&range=a1:m10
and they are up from 2006 by 5%.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pBISMjuVKyc7ym1EpyhF7fQ&output=html&gid=19&single=true&range=a2:m15
You call this a recession?? Give me a break.
I am sure this never made it to this blog. Too positive.
“The end of the housing market crunch in New Jersey is in sight. It is likely to bottom out in 2009 as credit restrictions loosen with a full swing recovery forecasted for 2010, according to one of New Jersey’s most highly respected real estate analysts, Jeffrey Otteau of Otteau Valuation Group, an appraisal, consulting and market analysis group.”
http://www.paramuspost.com/article.php/20090106155837777
Frank #338,
I am optimistic. A number of good friends who’ve all been sitting on the fence for years are finally giving in to their wives and planning to make offers in the next few weeks. They’ve all identified properties they like, in neighborhoods they like, at prices they’re comfortable with.
If the people I know are a good cross section of the population as a whole, we may be on to something.
What the hell are you asking this for terrorist? You must have money with Madoff probably looking to amend every damn tax return you can to rip off the government. People like you are always looking to skirt the damn rules anyway. I hope Madoff ripped you real good.
If this was a Ponzi scheme, then we’re not talking interest or dividends, but massive capital losses. Unfortunately, there’s a net capital loss limitation of only $ 3,000, so unless they had huge gains (unlikely) to absorb some portion of the losses, the tax relief is pretty slim.
kettle1 says:
January 10, 2009 at 9:17 pm
question for the tax guru’s….
if Madoff’s operation was a ponzi scheme, then could his investors attempt to recover taxes paid on “interest” from their madoff investment, if what they were given was not interest on their investment but essentially a portion of their own money being handed back to them?
RE101….I’ll bet you are a firecracker in between the sheetz. All that righteous anger. You know some of the best lays are ‘conservatives’.
sas,
This damn board is not big enough for the both of us. You’ve insulted me one too many damn times. Let me tell you something, we ain’t in the Austrialian outback with the damn kangaroos. We’re in America and there ain’t no damn blokes here. Get with the program.
342….aw…..that’s cute. You seem ready for battle…like a little tiger. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
SAS and Clot are the two dudes you here you do want in your foxhole…guaranteed they won’t run…like Cheney and Bush would.
Look, I don’t know what the hell your damn problem is, but like the damn blues song says, “I’m an man…a full grown man” and I ain’t no damn fairy.
Essex says:
January 10, 2009 at 11:30 pm
RE101….I’ll bet you are a firecracker in between the sheetz. All that righteous anger. You know some of the best lays are ‘conservatives’.
Oh Mr President Elect….I ‘will’ take a tax cut…how’s about you eliminate the AMT … oh pretty pUleze…..this here commie wants to pay down some debt…I got enough stuff…thanks!
345…OK….that’s fine…just some clarity….I’m not looking for a date. We thought you might be a lady…cause well you know…you seem like you are always….on….the…..rag. (please no offense girls)
In honor of my new best Bro…Re101….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOvGa-8-Lns
No, it’s more like this. Muddy Waters/Eric Clapton style:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpoKB7oYOio
I’m a man…spelled M….A….N
I thought that was M…H….I….N.
damn….
Like this son……like this….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5IOou6qN1o
Now get off your high horse and come on down wit da rest of us…..be brutha….not a mutha….
339….Parsippany gettin’ ready ta bust wide open……! Yo. Satyam be Damned!!!
Re101
I only lost a few mil. i may have to let one of my mistress’ go (layoffs, they’re hitting everyone), but dont worry i expect significant returns shorting the US this year!
Ok, that does it. There’s a knuckle sandwich on a menu waiting for you.
Essex says:
January 10, 2009 at 11:55 pm
Like this son……like this….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5IOou6qN1o
Now get off your high horse and come on down wit da rest of us…..be brutha….not a mutha
Dude…..seriously…I played college rugby in a southern state….I’m 6’3″ and 230 lbs…there are very few dudes that mess with me. But then this is the internet…..right?
So anyway……
Chi –
Europe/Israel etc. complicated. Without getting into a big political war:
1. There is cultural and religious basis for anti-semitism, especially among less educated Orthodox Christians. Plenty of anti-semitism here too if you know where to look. American views on faith are very different, but being the minority du jour doesnt strike me as a very safe place to be.
2. Muslim communities there are very poor and cut off. Frequently they come from post colonial nations. There’s a lot of anger there that needs a place to go.
3. Europe loves the underdog. I can’t stress this enough. If the US plays Camaroon at soccer, to a man they will support the Camaroonians. Americans don’t get this – they like winners. Having the US back Israel is another negative – the US is seen as a blundering white elephant when it comes to foreign affairs. Europeans don’t believe that Americans know anything about any other country.
Hey, I didn’t stutter. You heard me.
I’m 6’2, 275lbs of solid muscle. I squash rugby players for lunch
Essex says:
January 11, 2009 at 12:15 am
Dude…..seriously…I played college rugby in a southern state….I’m 6′3″ and 230 lbs…there are very few dudes that mess with me. But then this is the internet…..right?
wait, my turn!
I’m 7’4 350 lb and can bench 2X my body weight!
SX and RE: Bloody chr-st I wish I was at the Checkerboard right now :)
Not just tough….I take it….INTERNET TOUGH…..Goodnight Ladies.
nothing but muscle see!!!!
http://tinyurl.com/2a5jb4
“You’ve insulted me one too many damn times”
relax bloke. i gave you a litle ribbing.
no harm, no foul.
SAS
P.S. Chitown……Yeah man…..MUDDY WATERS was the mhin….too bad the douchebag din’t even know how to spell it right.
P.S.S….F’ him SAS…..she’s a woman…you were right.
I can hardly wait for the next gtg. There’s some scores I’m itching to settle. Some fresh faced commie/terrorist punks have pushed me to the damn limit. Let’s see what they have to say f2f
lisoosh says:
January 11, 2009 at 12:20 am
Chi – Europe/Israel etc. complicated. Without getting into a big political war: 1. There is cultural and religious basis for anti-semitism, especially among less educated Orthodox Christians. Plenty of anti-semitism here too if you know where to look. American views on faith are very different, but being the minority du jour doesnt strike me as a very safe place to be. 2. Muslim communities there are very poor and cut off. Frequently they come from post colonial nations. There’s a lot of anger there that needs a place to go. 3. Europe loves the underdog. I can’t stress this enough. If the US plays Camaroon at soccer, to a man they will support the Camaroonians. Americans don’t get this – they like winners. Having the US back Israel is another negative – the US is seen as a blundering white elephant when it comes to foreign affairs. Europeans don’t believe that Americans know anything about any other country.
L: I figured as much, but I can’t believe how many Europeans make me feel downright jingoistic. I always wonder if I am being clear thinking, or whether I am missing something utterly obvious. I will not defend the hypocrisy of America, but seriously, there is a serious separation of facts from preferences in some of the rhetoric ‘cross the pond….
366…I am not real social….and would never attend something where there was a chance of me encountering someone as moronic as you. But you can rest assured. You are a joke.
“There’s some scores I’m itching to settle. Some fresh faced commie/terrorist punks have pushed me to the damn limit”
reinvestor101, seriously now.
hear me out.
there are all sort of people watching these boards, more then Grim and his moderation button.
don’t be too foolish with your posts.
just a word of advice.
SAS
“It really doesn’t matter if we’re at the bottom [of the market cycle] yet. What matters is, can you find what you want? If you wait till it’s a good market and everyone’s buying, you won’t have as much choice.”
Jeffrey Otteau, a real estate appraiser from East Brunswick, N.J., “Welcome to the Buyers’ Waiting Game,” by Kathleen Lynn, The Record (N.J.), Dec. 2, 2007.
Some people will write anything.
crap, now i forgot what i originally wanted to say…
:P
SAS
Stu it is like a half off sale….great if you actually have the half required.
wait a minute…
is it possible?
Mr. Otteau = reinvestor101
:P
SAS
Yeah, just like I thought. A scared little wuss that likes to jump at shadows. Tell you what, stop by your local store and purchase some damn backbone. Get some depends while you’re in there.
Essex says:
January 11, 2009 at 12:33 am
366…I am not real social….and would never attend something where there was a chance of me encountering someone as moronic as you. But you can rest assured. You are a joke.
There are many things that are said on this board that are complete untruths. We waited for you at the Mtown GTG reTard and all 275 pounds of you forgot to show. We’re not holding our breaths again.
Nope…I am sensible enough not to mix it up with 1. Internet Trolls….2…road raging morons…and 3. Married women with children…..
hey essex,
have you made re101’s hit list yet? you get a tshirt when you do!
Plus…I got this far in life without an assault record … think I will just be peaceful (and large) believe me that does help. Most people think twice when they meet me.
Yep Kettle I am right behind Lee Iaccoca
I had previously scheduled commitments. I can’t help it that I’m busy
Stu says:
January 11, 2009 at 12:42 am
There are many things that are said on this board that are complete untruths. We waited for you at the Mtown GTG reTard and all 275 pounds of you forgot to show. We’re not holding our breaths again.
Chi –
“I figured as much, but I can’t believe how many Europeans make me feel downright jingoistic. I always wonder if I am being clear thinking, or whether I am missing something utterly obvious. I will not defend the hypocrisy of America, but seriously, there is a serious separation of facts from preferences in some of the rhetoric ‘cross the pond….”
European culture and even British culture are very different from American. The press is different too – just for starters, newspapers in the UK support actual political parties. Brits know this, Americans cherry picking from papers online don’t, so there are all sorts of erroneous assumptions that go into any analysis.
Much the same as there are numerous misperceptions about the US on the other side of the pond.
Sigh. No matter which country I am in, I find myself perpetually defending the other countries mindset. Just remember – Europe, or even the UK is no more homogenous than the US is. Other than that, there is far too much to go into on this board.
We are all ‘busy’, but most are mature enough not to threaten people on an internet board….at least in this day and age.
G’night ya’all and go see Slumdog Millionaire.
Just kidding around Essex. Besides, you threatened me first.
Essex says:
January 11, 2009 at 12:46 am
We are all ‘busy’, but most are mature enough not to threaten people on an internet board….at least in this day and age.
Just happened upon a blog for California RE market, i know it’s bad but sounds like they are in ‘overshoot’ mode at this point:
“It’s just hard for me to believe price will keep droping in Hayward, CA (Nor-Cal). A property peaked in 2005 and 2006 for $630k now is selling at $174k.”
Most wanted for 2009: SAS and NegativeEquity101 meeting on line at a Starbucks.
#6, Clotpoll
watching “death wish”
w/ Charles Bronson.
i love that movie.
SAS
was looking – not necessarily overshoot mode; just going back to what makes sense per incomes. a lot of Hayward is pretty dumpy, to put it charitably. 174K sounds like close to reasonable for many Hayward houses. the bubble was HUGE out here. lots of people bought early and low and kept sucking money out of real shacks (check out Dr. Housing Bubble for some amazing examples); I think that often figures like the 630K one are not actual sales but are what gets recorded when the house goes back to the bank (that is, the balance of the loan, after many trips to the refi well). that’s why U.S. banks are insolvent; they lent out 630K and now they can’t even get 174K back.
381 retard.
…hmmm so busy that you couldn’t make the Mtown, Hoboken, IOUSA movie, or any other get together, mini or otherwise.
…too busy buying maxi pads to use so that they match your investment accounts?
yah. hmmm. ok.
sl
385. Oh thank god now I can rest easy.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123146363567166677.html
Opinion piece from WSJ: Altas Shrugged: From fiction to fact in 52 years
“Ultimately, “Atlas Shrugged” is a celebration of the entrepreneur, the risk taker and cultivator of wealth through human intellect. Yet one pertinent warning resounds throughout the book: when profits and wealth and creativity are denigrated in society, they start to disappear – leaving everyone poorer.
It made me think of my post at #300…Amar Bhide
“Most new innovations are started without access to credit in good times and bad. Microsoft was started without any access to credit. It’s only in crazy times that people lend money to people who are experimenting with innovation. Most of the great businesses today were started with neither a lot of venture capital nor with any bank lending until five or six years after they were [up and running.]”
So somehow, the stimulus has to avoid putting everyone on the dole and squelching the desire of an individual to better themselves through innovation and creativity. What a fine line we walk.
cindy 394
good piece, but also keep in mind that while denigration of wealth can be counter productive, a highly stratified society is undesirable as well.
I do not claim to know what the answer is to reducing social stratification which seems to be worsening over the last decade, but i do think it is a serious issue that should be addressed.
Bergabe and Paulson must be Jealous
Zimbabwe introduces $50 billion note–can buy two loaves of bread.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/01/10/zimbawe.currency/index.html
Why does everyone pick on me? I didn’t do anything to anyone.
Lady, don’t you have a malpractice suit to defend somewhere? I just know you’re guilty leaving a damn scaple sewed up in someone.
Look, I don’t have limitless time and sometimes I’m busy, ok? I was even going to bring my little reinvestors with me to a gtg, but one of them got sick and we couldn’t make it and then you guys stopped having them just to prevent me from coming or proposed stuff like Stu was proposing where he “invited” everyone over to a byob and byof affair; the hitch was you had to leave your drinks and food. This was a scam where he was trying to feed himself and his family for a month or two for free. I’m not about to be a party to some damn cheapskate scam, so no I’m not going to attend anything like that.
still_looking says:
January 11, 2009 at 4:25 am
381 retard.
…hmmm so busy that you couldn’t make the Mtown, Hoboken, IOUSA movie, or any other get together, mini or otherwise.
…too busy buying maxi pads to use so that they match your investment accounts?
yah. hmmm. ok.
sl
(395) Kettle – I’m reading a book just now called “Understanding Poverty” by Ruby Payne.
It is providing me with some “aha” moments relating to my children and families at school.
About the articles, I am rooting for private employers rather than government employers. Long-term job growth and innovation…I just don’t want the government to crowd out the private sector and make it somehow more desirable to just give up on new, great ideas….
Heck – I have a government job so of course I think they have their place…
This doesn’t equate to social stratification for me. I want NEW business and opportunity for all. Not a bunch of trumped-up government jobs but an atmosphere where new businesses can flourish (and provide a decent paycheck for many.)
Cindy,
i wasnt trying to suggest that the 2 were related. I was simply suggesting that on top of avoiding the common scapegoating pitfalls it is important to be aware of ignoring the lower classes while every one tries to be or look like bill gates by pimping themselves out with bling bought on credit
kettle 396: “Bergabe and Paulson must be Jealous
Zimbabwe introduces $50 billion note–can buy two loaves of bread.”
What the CNN did not report here is that people and the remaining businesses in Zimbabwe have been using US dollars for some time already (in addition to “some official shops licensed to accept foreign currencies since September”).
Ruby Payne suggests that there are hidden class “rules.” There are characteristics for generational poverty and situational poverty. I thought about that when reading the food talk from last night.
Food focus for poverty: quantity
Food focus for middle class: quality
Food focus for wealth: presentation
Money focus for poverty: to be used, spent
Money focus for middle class: to be managed
Money focus for wealth: to be conserved, invested
Driving forces poverty: survival, relationships, entertainment
Driving forces middle class: work, achievement
Driving forces wealth: financial, political, social connections
Family structure poverty: tends to be matriarchal
Family structure middle class: tends to be patriarchal
Family structure wealth: depends on who has the money
Interesting stuff…
There is a quiz, too…
Could you survive in Poverty?
1. I know which churches and sections of town have the best rummage sales.
2. I know which grocery stores’ garbage bins can be accessed for thrown-away food.
3. I know how to get someone out of jail.
4. I know how to move in half a day.
etc.
Could you survive in Middle Class?
1. I know how to get my children into Little League, piano lessons, soccer etc.
2. I know how to properly set a table.
3. I talk to my children about going to college.
etc.
Could you survive in Wealth?
1. I can read a menu in French, English, and other languages.
2. I have several favorite restaurants in different countries of the world.
3. I am on the board of at least two charities.
etc.
#371
Jeff Otteau is an idiot. Like most other realtors, he is currently in 100% positive spin mode. I bet he’s still choking on all of his words and predictions from last year.
JB, Please check your email.
Hobro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A
Kettle – Do you remember this Elizabeth Warren lecture from a few months ago?
The Coming Collaspe of the Middle Class
It is about an hour long but with her in the forefront these days, maybe it is a good time to hear her views again.
She is quite aware that a disparity exists…
She eventually points out that housing is the area that has increased the most.
Excellent lecture
Essex,
“385. Oh thank god now I can rest easy.”
I reiterate my earlier stance on your negative personality trait.
Thanks Stu….appreciate the insight….(note to self: avoid a GTG at all costs….)
#383 Lisoosh
You describe it much more eloquently that I ever could.
Essex: Glad to be of assistance. Is there anything else I may help you with?
Spam,
That small white building in your yard ..what is that?
Stu….the whine expert.
Look in the mirror buddy. Just try to keep it from shattering!
As to not waste everyone’s time here, I have officially put Essex on ignore to be joined with his 3 monkeys hedge fund manager partner.
Anyone have an opinion of Clark in Union County?
The same for Freehold.
Thanks
SRS holders…from Seeking Alpha:
Commercial Mortgages: The $400 Billion Ticking Time Bomb
http://seekingalpha.com/article/114209-commercial-mortgages-the-400-billion-ticking-time-bomb
“Given that the current economic environment is much worse than during the S&L crisis, it is not hard to understand why the CMBS market is pricing for a 30% default rate. Since the banks own a higher percentage of commercial mortgages, the resulting losses could be larger than the so-called “sub-prime” losses. So while Congress debates whether or not the TARP was put to good use, the $400 billion commercial mortgage time bomb is ticking.”
“That small white building in your yard ..what is that?”
I assumed it was the outhouse.
Scribe…
Good eye…
It’s a “two-seater” outhouse :)
I cannot imagine “going” while someone else was “going” next to me…
I should really take a picture of the seat… it’s still original, there’s a small window that’s moveable and the roof is slate. We just repainted it to help stave off it’s final demise.
(Why is in the front yard? The house was moved 17 years ago from “right at the road” to about 200′ back on the same property [and 50′ to the right] …this now puts the outhouse, that used to be in the backyard, in the front yard :) )
We will move it at some point, but that’s LOW on the priority list…in the meantime, it’s great for storage like garbage cans… (and mice!)
Spam,
Why don’t you put a nice sign on it like say, “NJ Republican Headquarters. Please donate!”
Stu!!
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Except no donations.
You know someone like re101 will go in and leave a “donation”…
“I wanna build me a house, on higher ground
I wanna find me a world, where love’s the only sound
High above this road, filled with shadow and doubt
I want to shoulder my load, and figure it all out
With Leah
I walk this road, with a hammer and a fiery lantern
With this hand I’ve built, and with this I’ve burned
I wanna live in the same house, beneath the same roof
Sleep in the same bed, search for the same proof
As Leah
I got somethin’ in my heart, I been waitin’ to give
I got a life I wanna start, one I been waitin’ to live
No more waitin’, tonight I feel the light I say the prayer
I open the door, I climb the stairs…”
–Bruce Springsteen
Good news. Princess Caroline is qualified to be NY’s Senator. AP just confirmed this, after interviewing her friends who confirm this. If I would dispute the fairness of AP, I would say this is concerted PR effort by the publishing arm of D-party, to coincide with the meeting with the governor.
Of course, I don’t really dispute AP’s honesty. I’m sure AP made good faith investigation, used facebook to track down her kids network and tried to bribe some dirty stuff etc, according to standard AP procedures /sarc
Spam! Love the house! And the land and the snow and the horse and the goat….looks like you’ve found your little piece of heaven.
“We have worked this way for 240 years, you are upset because you get to witness what is usually hidden?”
Chi,
Really?
Actually, I’m a wee bit confused. Prior, to 2008 when was the last time Bear/Lehman failed? In addition to this, when was the last time IB’s changed their charter to bank holding co’s? Seems to me that we are in unchartered waters. Yet this is routine, status quo, normal operations for 240 years? Too bad I wasn’t alive for this entire show.
Don’t want to rehash too much, no need. We all know that Hammerin Hank was one of the major architect’s in the most fraudelent scam ever devised on WS. It wasn’t enough to make zillions selling the crap worldwide. Why stop there? You know you turned mad cow disease into Prime A beef. Better sell it short before the disease turns fatal.
Stepping forward, as Treas Sec, you twist arms in Congress, to play your game. Simple, just scream Armageddon if they don’t give you the ball. That’s wasn’t enough. He, unconstitutionally, decides for this to work[his scam], he must solely become the 4th branch of our govt. Free access to the vault, no guidelines, zero accountability and with impunity. You’re right, that’s talent.
No need to bore anyone, don’t need to rehash the TARP, I mean BARF, fiasco.
We have worked in this manner for 240 years? Well, I can only go back to Carter/Blumenthal. Nothing, since 1976 has come close to this robber baron. Please educate me. Tell me which Treas Sec/crisis/year, prior to 1976?
Hank is a liar, a fraudster, a scam artist, a blood sucker and a snake oil salesman. Granted, all prereq’s if one aspires to be the top dog at GS. If you sliced and diced him, you would create one deep pile of sheet. If he was a stock, you would buy since you consider this talent. I would be a 200% short. Gotta luv markets.
Why am I pissed? Actually, thanks for analyzing my frustrations. Rick Ankiel, on the mound, came much closer to the target. That said, if I want to be selfish, I should take the first train to DC, get on my knees and bow. However, it’s goes much deeper than brokerage account credits. 11M are now unemployed. Millions more are marginally displaced or working part time. Families are becoming fractured, communities devastated and pensions/401k plans annihilated. History may show that the capitulation in both the boom/bust cycle, on his watch[private & public sector] proved to be the last straw in the great American Empire. Now, that’s talent.
Same as the last 240 years?
spam,
I was wondering if it was an outhouse. Seemed odd that it was in the front yard – and still standing.
My grandparents’ house in PA still had one through the late 1960’s. The house was built in the teens. After the war, my aunt had the house retro-fitted for a bathroom, but my grandfather still preferred the privacy of the outhouse at the far end of the backyard.
Hi
I am a long time lurker and I was wondering if someone with mls access could tell me what happend to 2577387, whether it is under contract or simply pulled.
Thanks so very much.
Rita,
UC
Last list, $319k
Going to Hong Kong/Japan in six weeks. Does anyone travel frequently to that area? I believe that my credit cards charge a 3% fee for overseas transactions. Does anybody have a work around that does not involve cash or travelers checks?
Anybody know if the plan will have an electrical outlet at the seat. I’m flying Continental, coach class?
d2b,
There are a few credit cards that don’t charge the 3% foreign fee. SeatGuru.com will help you to determine the amenities of every airplane.
I.O.U.S.A will be on CNN today (Sunday) at 3:00pm.
Go Gints!!
spam – Me likey.
PGC – Thanks, I tried. Very difficult to explain the diff between them and avoid politics.
Cindy – 401 – VERY interesting.
I looked at the quiz though and I don’t fit into any of the groups (which I already knew) – far too eclectic. I’ll assume that is due to an international background.
When I was in the UK this summer, spent some time in Yorkshire. The cottage we stayed at had a book cataloguing life in the Yorkshire Dales at the turn of the century.
There was a picture of a 4 SEATER outhouse!
Guess when you gotta go you gotta go.
There was a story there about a lady who still had one into the ’70’s. Her granddaughter when visiting would insist on being driven to a nearby sports center to use their toilets.
Should mention that the 4 seater outhouse was just holes – people kept their personal seats on hooks along the wall.
Ewwwwww. 4?
This doesn’t have seats, only holes.
I just googled 4 seat outhouse and saw some amazing pics… (no 4, tho)
I’ll run out and takes pics… seems mines in pretty good shape compared to the ones in the internet :)
Scribe,
So I tell my husband:
“Someone wanted to know what the white building was…”
He replies with typical caustic wit:
“That’s where we go to that bathroom…. they didn’t know that? Where do the go? In the woods? How disgusting…”
ROFL…
Yawwwwwwwwwwn.
Thank you sybarite
Wake me up when the weekend thread is over.
437 Spam
That was great.
A slice of PRIME NJ real estate…
outhouse pics:
The outside
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b385/damonr/100_2155.jpg
2 seat, toilet paper holder and wall paper…
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b385/damonr/100_2161.jpg
A close up of a detail on the “wallpaper”
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b385/damonr/100_2171.jpg
A custom fitted cover :)
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b385/damonr/100_2166.jpg
nothing bad “below”… just dead bugs, old wood and a foundation of rocks…
(shiny stuff is ice)
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b385/damonr/100_2163.jpg
Some good news?? “US Credit Market Shows Signs of Easing.”
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d95ca624-e003-11dd-9ee9-000077b07658.html
Roman multi seater public toilets:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ostia-Toilets.JPG
My neighbor sold his outhouse for $669K in ’06 and I heard the new owners have a HELOC for another $429K on it…
‘soosh…
I saw those on Teevee some time back…
They had perpetually running water underneath to carry away the waste…
It’s unbelievable what the Romans accomplished during the empire…
Although I still can’t get over the thought of going to the bathroom with other people around…. AND them doing the same thing…
spam – reading up on it (fascinating subject, we are so spoiled these days), it seems that back in the day, ideas of modesty were completely different. There were multi-seat, multi-family outhouses. Much more convenient to dig a big hole and put multiple seats on it than to dig multiple personal holes.
Plus, in the days when you did the laundry by hand, beat carpets and walked 5 miles to and from school (uphill both ways), who had time for privacy?
This is a nice description of life with an outhouse:
“When I was a young boy living in Northern Appalachia (in the late 1970s), we had moved to an old homestead with an outhouse that we used for a few months before we were able to install indoor plumbing in the house (and an indoor kitchen, and electricity, and, and, and).
Believe me, you don’t want to experience the terror of being a 5-year-old using an outhouse with only one drop that is 6 sizes too big for your scrawny chicken a$$. My father, a carpenter by trade, made me a small wooden booster for it, but I still had this fear. It’s not the same fear of falling into the ceramic bowl where you make a little splash. In the outhouse, there is a cold stench under those buns emanating from unwholesome darkness. You just don’t know what’s down there, only that it is very bad. We also had an owl living in there, which made going after dark all the more unnerving.”
OK, all you real estate types…who knows anything about this house in Westwood:
MLS #2846242
It’s a nice neighborhood, house looks adorable, it’s been on the market for quite a while. Price seems not too appalling for this market. What’s the catch? I have a friend who’s looking for a charming older house in this price range.
Jay #429: Read this first.
Re#448 lisoosh – On my crusie in October I visted Ephesus in Turkey an ancient Roman city, the pic in your link is from there I believe. The tour guide told us that the bathrooms were communal and for sure both sexes used them and had running water with clay pipes attached to a trench about 7 feet down from the rim of the toilet to flush the waste out into the bay, not unlike what is done today less the chemical treatments. The whole city of about 20 thousand used the one or two communal bathrooms available.
Speaking of toilets, WHAT ARE the Giants doing out there?
The Giants need a bailout.
Mountain Creek needs a bailout, I hit the slopes this morning early, not much of a crowd and half of the place was closed.
so sorry, Giants fans.
miss Plaxico much?
4″????????
Pathetic. It was an appropriate last play for the Giants. Where is the next LT when you need him.
bairen [413]
>> opinions of Clark
I’ve got some but you know what they say about opinions… anything specific you want to know?
My target area for eventual purchase includes Union Co. (where I currently live) and select towns in Essex.
Had a new thought today. All my adult life I vowed to never buy/live in new construction. I hate it. Now I’m in a situation with a 2nd baby on the way and I can not wait until 2010 to buy and move. Renting for good reason is also not an option. Currently I realize that most houses up a) have an out of wack asking and/or b) the sellers are way upsidedown and can’t afford to come down to a price I am willing to pay.
So, back to new construction. Advantages in current market: Builders are business people and know how to take a loss correctly, so my chances may be much better getting in at a good price that reflects the realities. I figure at the right price I could swicth out some of the builders grade.
Thoughts? I’ve done no research and I don’t even know anything about the builders out there.
Barbara,
Congrats on the second baby!
dont know if this is out of protocol, but we actually met the owner of the house we’re buying today.
basically, there was something on the inspection that we didn’t like, and wanted a credit; he didnt want to give a credit, but rather fix it on the cheap (has a son-in-law who is a contractor).
i was expecting a potentially-contentious meeting; it was quite the opposite. he talked about how he is the president of the comm. HMA, and how has lived on the block for 15 years and talked about how nice the neighbors are, blah, blah. he even said – with both realtors there as witnesses (which i made sure to point out, jokingly, but also serious), that if it wasn’t fixed to our liking, we can call him up because he’s only moving 5 miles down the road.
i got the impression he didn’t want to try and screw us … and then have his rep tarnished in the neighborhood where he was a big shot.
and i know, i know, people upll this kind of shady crap all the time and then shove it in your a*s at closing or the walkthrough.
thx scribe :)
Yikes,
I actually had my friends screwed over by a church (church owned a bldg that they were unloading). All kinds of funny biz nit, shady. At the end of it all they were out 1000 in inspections.
Creeps.
Barb, congrats on the new one. You bought threasd out of the toilet :)
Yikes,
I’m not sure about that. If his son is a GOOD contractor, why didn’t he/they see this issue before they listed it and repaired it beforehand?
Good to have a nasty lawyer.
They must repair to code and not change it so as to make it functionally or visually different.
He wants to repair it? I’d require an engineer to approve the repair.
We had a seller wanted to put “bugs” in the septic to repair a completely failed septic. Uhhhh….. no.
I knew someone who painted the underside of the roof to “repair a leaking roof”.
If your deal is “As is”, walk away. Demand the deduction or walk.
(I’d be soooooooo walking. Bies bies!)
(and yes, I walk out on deals. It’s a schittload of money and if you didn’t learn anything else here, you learned sellers are not in the driver’s seat right now…)
PS-Just remember, he’s moving OUT. He wants to put as LITTLE money as possible into the repair. You’re moving in. Why should you have to live with his cheap a$$ choice for years to come?
And did you talk to these other people whose opinion he cares about? Maybe they already know he’s cheap and wouldn’t raise an eyebrow at hearing “another story…”
I guess you can tell we’ve been there, done that… :)
And no, it’s not out of protocol…
Agents make you think each party is hermetically sealed, by how do FSBO’s get done?
We’re doing a CRE deal now that has NO agents involved; seller listed FSBO, gave us the tour and we both have lawyers…
thanks spam.
I agree with all you posted to Yikes. I have had those “charming” conversations with sellers only to get in return some BS repairs. Most memorable, when I was green buying an investment property in the 80s, inspection on furnace came back ok. The inspector was the seller’s oilman/repair service. Flash forward with house in my hands, first winter, the thing blows water, HOT water out all over the ist floor and basement.
Later find out that furnace was “stop gapped.” We got a small settlement and if it happened now, I would have hired a better laywer and went for broke.
The house was sold to me by a “kindly old lady who had lived in the neighborhood for all her life.” Bah, her adult children were creeps, they handled most of the transaction.
errrm, bought in 90s, not 80s. I was a teen in the 80s.
ROFL…. a church!!!
A friend does a contracting job for a church in Middlesex County. Small interior job…office rework…
Gets a 40 yard’er delivered. Shows up on Monday, thing is full of cement and debris.
Pastor called it his “getover pile”. Paster “knew” contractor would try to “getover” on him somehow, so he beat contractor to it…
Contractor deals with it and does job.
Turns out, Pastor has dug a hole in the basement floor for a “baptismal pool” (illegally). Waited for contractor to complete office job, then complains that contractor “damaged floor” and sues contractor.
472.
real estate is an ugly reminder about human nature. Almost every deal I’ve been in (I’ve only bought, never sold as of yet) has been shady.
471 even
does anyone here use Angie’s List? It’s a great resource. That’s where we found our inspector … who was the one that found said issue.
fortunately, of the “major” issues, none of them were complete deal breakers.
it’s looking like the deal will happen, but who knows, a lot can happen in 10 days …
I can’t WAIT to meet the people who buy my (ex) step-mother’s house.
The inspection s/b several thousand dollars for all the documentation it takes and maybe even make it into “inspector magazine”…
She adds outlets by running orange extension cords inside the walls (she chops the ends off to “hardwire” them)
She put a huge inflatable pool on top of her septic and collapsed the tank; so she just added dirt to fill in the new depression…
She added a lean-to on to her garage (over the property line) and dug up and replanted 2 small trees the next door neighbor had planted as corner markers to “move” his property corners, giving her 10 more feet…
She stole a school crossing sign and nailed it up to a tree in front of her house where her kids play… (but there’s no school for a 1/2 mile) (she’s on a dead-end dirt road)
She throws garbage in the woods ON HER OWN PROPERTY instead of having to “pay” to have it removed. (bed frames, fridges, old oil… you name it :)
475 spam
textbook narcissist?
475 Spam
Wow. Just wow.
Spam:
My grandfather built a house at the shore with scrap wood. Placed looked pretty good with the siding. Would still be there today if not for a bad tenant who paid his rent on time, but drank like a fish. In his constant state of compromise, he never took out recyclables and didn’t care about roof leaks. A roof collapse triggered an eviction and total rehab.
Good times.
Lost, Barb…
yeah.
And I try to have NO dealings with her, except I have 2 half brothers by her that still live with her (they are young adults) so I get the sporadic earfull…
She’s a cherry. To bring it full circle to churches, she used to fix copiers (back in the 80’s) so she took home a HUGE broken copier from “the” church several years ago, promising to fix it. It NEVER made it back. It never even made it back together. The church had to buy a new one.
She’s forged signatures, falsified a child’s birth certificate, and generally has ZERO moral compass. None. The needle doesn’t even swing wildly in every direction…it’s completely broke off.
She’s the kind of person to ask you a favor and you regret it for the rest of your life, heck you even experience PTSD over it…
Oh yeah….if you’re family/or she knows you as family, she just walks into your house even if you’re not home… she’ll “borrow” something, like printer paper, a fax machine, dishes…
I have a video security system at my house thanks to her.
My little brother worked at our farm for several summers while in school and she would “stalk” him here, even when he wasn’t… like 9pm on Sat night when he was out with friends…and I didn’t need her helping herself to a horseback ride. (She would mention she wanted to “come over and take a horse ride”…I would explain I’m not -cough cough- insured for that, so sorry, no can do, because I don’t trust her AT ALL… [and yes, I’m insured, but like I said, I keep interaction to a minimum…] :)
She’s my “I know a crazy person” person… :)
d2b…
ROFL!!!!
I’m the local deli sitting having lunch… small town, everyone knows everyone… I overhear this old guy (in his 70’s?) talking about how he backed his ratty old pickup truck in to the corner of his house and “moved it slightly off the foundation…”
You know, I remember the story not because of the structural flaws(s) implied :), but because he mentioned how he hadn’t told his landlord yet….I couldn’t believe he was paying rent, at his age.
I guess you just gotta screw in a big eyebolt, hook up a tow chain and drag it back onto the foundation… landlord never needs to know… :)
BC Bob says:
January 11, 2009 at 11:18 am
“We have worked this way for 240 years, you are upset because you get to witness what is usually hidden?”
Chi, Really? Seems to me that we are in unchartered waters. Yet this is routine, status quo, normal operations for 240 years? Too bad I wasn’t alive for this entire show. We have worked in this manner for 240 years? Why am I pissed? Actually, thanks for analyzing my frustrations. Rick Ankiel, on the mound, came much closer to the target. 11M are now unemployed. Millions more are marginally displaced or working part time. Families are becoming fractured, communities devastated and pensions/401k plans annihilated. History may show that the capitulation in both the boom/bust cycle, on his watch[private & public sector] proved to be the last straw in the great American Empire. Now, that’s talent.
Same as the last 240 years?
Bost: #1 Go reread my post. Something needed to be done, and I am not going to critique its quality or execution. Why not? It is a waste of my time. Yes, the whole thing sucks.
#2 With government, there will be graft, you just get to witness more of it with this particular soap opera. Same as the last 240 years? Same as the last 240 years. Remember the $9 hammer and the $100 toilet seat?
#3 If this situation is such a clear cut disaster, then trade to profit from it. If you have your trades in place and are just waiting for the passage of time, then stop complaining, you will be rewarded. You think there is injustice? Then with you new and hard earned riches, begin charitable work….
479
Spam- we need a gtg. Stories like these are always great in person.
New thread!
d2b/#427
Re. China flight on Continental:
a) Some 777s that CO flies have regular 110 V power; some have low voltage (which needs a special adapter called Empower) – and that only on 1st 6 or 8 rows of economy. Better check with them which variety they fly on your route.
b) Among the major credit card issuers, Capital One is the only one still not having any foreign transaction fee, unless they introduced it since November – but they would have sent me a notice. Discover also doesn’t charge, but nobody will take it in China. Amex takes 2%.
WASHINGTON – Senate Democrats prepared Sunday to answer a request for the remaining $350 billion in financial industry bailout funds as the Bush administration and President-elect Obama undertook a tag-team effort to obtain the money from reluctant lawmakers.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090112/ap_on_go_co/obama_economy