From Robert Shiller and the NYT:
Housing Bubbles Are Few and Far Between
WHAT’S the outlook for home prices over the next decade? It’s not easy to tell. We need to confront the basic fact that near the beginning of the 21st century, the market for homes in much of the world suddenly became more speculative than ever.
This enormous housing bubble and burst isn’t comparable to any national or international housing cycle in history. Previous bubbles have been smaller and more regional.
We have to look further afield for parallels. The most useful may be the long trail of booms and crashes in the price of land, particularly of farms, forests and village lots. Those upheavals may give some insights into the present situation, and some guidance for the next decade.
In the 19th century and most of the 20th, speculation in land was a powerful phenomenon. There was little speculative activity around homes, however, which were usually viewed as rapidly depreciating assets whose value was to be found almost entirely in physical buildings, not the land beneath them. Eventually, the buildings were expected to be torn down and replaced, so there was little bubble psychology for housing on any large scale. People generally didn’t think about housing as an investment.
…
There have been many highly localized land price bubbles in the United States over the last couple of centuries, although bubbles over large areas have been rather rare. Those with the biggest national impact were in the 19th century, when speculators found opportunities that had been created by government land sales and by shifts in land prices set off by construction of canals and railroads. Stories of fortunes in land speculation captured the imagination, and led to bubbles. (That is typically how bubbles form, by titillating the public imagination.)
…
Ultimately, bubbles are impossible without extreme public enthusiasm. Opinions about housing seem to change in rather trendy ways, but investor enthusiasm for housing has now been down for more than five years — a decline that started well before the collapse of the housing bubble in 2007.With Karl Case of Wellesley College, who developed the S&P/Case-Shiller Home Price Indices with me, I have been surveying opinions of home buyers in the United States on and off since 1988. We have found a fairly steady downtrend since the early-to-mid-2000s in a number of speculative attitudes. On questionnaires, people are less likely to report that they think of housing as an investment, or to express the view that real estate is the “best investment.”
As an investment, in fact, they are more likely to see housing as risky. Although they still have solid expectations of home price increases over the next 10 years — a median of 5 percent annually, in nominal terms — those expectations have been declining and are not nearly as extravagant as they were before the market peak.
IT will take a while for the housing market to recover fully. Still, many people continue to think of housing as an investment, and so it does seem that we are in danger of encountering another whopper bubble someday. Even so, both the history of land bubbles and the slowness of shifts in public opinion suggest that such bubbles will be fairly rare.
Add the new policy restraints, and a new national housing bubble looks even less likely anytime soon.
Good morning NewJersey
From the Record:
Bank can foreclose despite lost mortgage note, judge rules
A Bergen County judge has ruled that a lender can foreclose on a mortgage even if the lender doesn’t have the mortgage note because a previous lender lost it.
Bogota homeowner Janett Alvarado challenged Bank of America’s right to foreclose on her home, arguing that it did not possess the note for the $292,000 mortgage.
Bank of America acknowledged that the note was lost by the original lender, now-defunct Washington Mutual. Washington Mutual transferred the loan obligation to LaSalle Bank, which was later merged with Bank of America.
“The pivotal issue is … whether any person other than the person who lost the note can enforce a lost note,” wrote Superior Court Judge Mary F. Thurber in her recent ruling. “This court is persuaded that Bank of America, as successor to LaSalle National Bank … has the right to enforce the obligation represented by the lost note.”
To decide otherwise, Thurber wrote, would result in a “windfall” to the homeowner. “That result would not be equitable,” she wrote, pointing out that Alvarado admitted she had not paid her mortgage since 2008. Thurber also noted that Washington Mutual had signed an affidavit of lost note in July 2006.
From the Star Ledger:
N.J. senators, Amtrak official to announce new commuter train tunnel project across the Hudson
Amtrak’s top executive and New Jersey’s two U.S. senators Monday are expected to announce an alternative to the Hudson River commuter-train tunnel that was killed by Gov. Chris Christie in October.
The “Gateway” tunnel proposed by Amtrak would largely follow the same footprint as the canceled nine-mile Access to the Region’s Core tunnel from Secaucus to New York City, but connect to new tracks in an expanded New York Penn Station instead of dead-ending deep under West 34th Street, representatives for U.S. Sens. Frank Lautenberg and Robert Menendez said tonight.
Detractors referred to ARC as the “tunnel to Macy’s basement” for its proximity to the landmark department store and supposed lack of connectivity to other transit hubs in Manhattan.
The Gateway tunnel would allow 13 additional NJ Transit trains per hour — from 20 to 33 — and eight more Amtrak trains. The ARC project would have allowed 25 extra NJ Transit trains per hour.
At least someone still appreciates Saarinen, from the WSJ:
Hotel Plan Set for Ghost Terminal
An airline terminal at John F. Kennedy International Airport that started as a jet-age architectural icon but has become a security-age relic could be reopened as a boutique hotel.
The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey is looking for developers to turn the vacant Trans World Airlines Flight Center into the centerpiece of a small, high-end hotel that would allow the agency to reopen the terminal and recoup some of the money it spent restoring it.
The curving, winged terminal opened in 1962 at what was then Idlewild Airport. It became a symbol of the glamour of air travel. Its designer, Eero Saarinen, is considered a master of midcentury modernist architecture. Among his other works are St. Louis’s Gateway Arch and Manhattan’s CBS headquarters.
…
Now, the agency hopes to find a developer who will build a small hotel in the space between the old TWA terminal and the new JetBlue building. The interior of the TWA space would serve as an entry way and lobby for the hotel with restaurants and shops.
“You can have perhaps the hippest, coolest-looking front office to a boutique hotel that serves a very special and unique air traveling market,” said Port Authority Executive Director Chris Ward. “It’s not a big airport hotel. It’s going to be a niche-market boutique-style hotel with about 150 rooms.”
Oh! And welcome to the Spring 2011 Market!
From the AP:
The rise and fall of a foreclosure king
During the housing crash, it was good to be a foreclosure king. David Stern was Florida’s top foreclosure lawyer, and he lived like an oil sheik. He piled up a collection of trophy properties, glided through town in a fleet of six-figure sports cars and, with his bombshell wife, partied on an ocean cruiser the size of a small hotel.
When homeowners fell behind on their mortgages, the banks flocked to “foreclosure mills” like Stern’s to push foreclosures through the courts on their behalf. To his megabank clients — Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, GMAC, Citibank and Wells Fargo — Stern was the ultimate Repo Man.
At industry gatherings, Stern bragged in his boyish voice of taking mortgages from the “cradle to the grave.” Of the federal government’s disastrous homeowner relief plan, which was supposed to keep people from getting evicted, he quipped: “Fortunately, it’s failing.”
The worse things got for homeowners, the better they got for Stern.
That is, until last fall, when the nation’s foreclosure machine blew apart and Stern’s gilded world came undone. Within a few months, Stern went from being the subject of a gushing magazine profile to being the subject of a Florida investigation, class-action lawsuits and blogger Schadenfreude that, at last long, the “foreclosure king” was dead.
“What Stern represents is an industry that was completely unrestrained, unchecked, unpunished and unsupervised,” says Florida defense attorney Matt Weidner. “This was business gone wild.”
One day closer to death.
Home, home again I like to be here when I can
When I come home cold and tired,
It’s good to warm my bones beside the fire
Far away across the field the tolling of the iron bell
Calls the faithful to their knees
To hear the softly spoken magic spells.
is Hosni or Barry going to pay their mortgage?
al-reuters:
“Hundreds of Egyptians demanding cheaper apartments rallied outside a government office on Monday, emboldened to press their case by mass demonstrations calling for the overthrow of President Hosni Mubarak. Many stood for hours outside the downtown offices with their application forms. Some shouted that they would join the protest camp in nearby Tahrir Square if officials did not give way: “If you don’t let us in, we will head to Tahrir.” Sohir and Amr, a married couple in their late 30s who were looking for an apartment they could afford, said they would not leave the governorate office area until”
#9 – The rent is too damned high!
JP Morgan announced today that from now on they will accept physical gold bullion as collateral.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/morning-gold-fixing-jp-morgan-accepts-gold-bullion-collateral-–-silver-backwardation-lead-sh
Since September 2010 silver has broken its golden shackles. The algorithmic trading that kept the price of silver subdued for seven years has been completely annihilated. On Friday silver closed in complete backwardation on the Comex. Spot silver closed at $29.075/oz while FEB 2011 closed at $29.064/oz and DEC 2015 closed at $29.026/oz. I believe this is the first time in history that this has happened. Silver traded in backwardation between the spot price and futures contract up to one year out during the blatantly manipulative precious metals bashing of January, but now the entire futures structure is in backwardation. This is a sure sign there are shortages of silver because it means that buyers will pay a premium for silver delivered sooner rather than later.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-silver-breaks-its-golden-shackles
Glen Ridge short sale of the week. .15 luxurious acres only blocks to East Orange and close to former Superfund site. Underground oil tank with no insurance. Sold as-is. A bargain at $550k.
http://emailrpt.gsmls.com/public/show_public_report_rpt.do?report=clientfull&Id=61842946_30363
Debt
Alto was fantastic. Thank you.
Just in time for the Spring selling season, it appears 30-year mortgage rates are really starting to move up. This is surprising considering that I expected them to drop to zero immediately after I locked.
I wonder how many Egyptian TV’s tuned in to the super bowl ?
Gator,
Nothing like paying $14k in taxes but still needing a bulletproof vest to pick up the mail.
cat (14)-
Anytime.
re #3 Read any of the CBO reports on Amtrak, it has been insolvent for nearly all its history, yet our Senators want to spend 10-15 Billion so they can run a couple of extra trains in the morning. It seems nobody down in Wasington DC can say no to massive deficit spending.
Juice Box (19):
If the states can’t do it with their mandate to balance the budget, then what makes you think the Feds would when they have no mandate.
Gator,
IF ONLY there were two.
Side question, has anyone been to Beaches Turks and Caicos, thinking of going this summer, but will it be too damm hot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk1beTw2IXk
A lot of them did and around one million of them are storming the NFL headquarters to burn and kill people over the 500 people who could not be seated.
speedkillsu says:
February 7, 2011 at 9:49 am
I wonder how many Egyptian TV’s tuned in to the super bowl ?
I went to a different Beaches in Jamaica and I really didn’t like it. Plenty of mediocre food and well drinks. I would prefer better food rather than stuffing myself at buffets all week. My kid loved it.
If you have little kids, you should consider the Disney Cruise. I don’t care if I ever go on a cruise again, but the ship is nice, the food was good, and there are a ton of things for the kids to do.
My wife hates having little kids on cruises. I think she will be a nudge with them falling over and all the creepy ships people. I personally would love it if they went on a month long Disney Cruise in July without me.
d2b says:
February 7, 2011 at 11:37 am
I went to a different Beaches in Jamaica and I really didn’t like it. Plenty of mediocre food and well drinks. I would prefer better food rather than stuffing myself at buffets all week. My kid loved it.
If you have little kids, you should consider the Disney Cruise. I don’t care if I ever go on a cruise again, but the ship is nice, the food was good, and there are a ton of things for the kids to do.
JJ – Caribbean during the summer? You must be an accountant. June 1 to November 30 is Hurricane season. Be sure to bring plenty of bug spray too.
I expect to see more of this from first world countries (2nd and 3rd world countries already do this):
“Multimillionaire foreigners prepared to invest their money in Britain will find it easier to make a home in the UK under government plans to relax immigration rules for the super-rich.
The Home Office will shortly propose changes to “investor visas” to encourage more rich people to live and invest in the UK. . . .
Under the proposals, which must be endorsed by parliament, wealthy migrants will from April only have to spend half a year in the country – against nine months under current rules – to qualify for a visa, and the wait for permanent residency will be dramatically cut for the wealthiest entrants.
The government, which has already exempted “high net worth individuals” and entrepreneurs from the new cap on non-European migration, is determined to increase the flow of wealthy immigrants. The UK attracts only a few hundred individuals each year on such grounds, compared with 3,000 for Canada. . . .”
http://www.cnbc.com/id/41454075
/snip
Shore 21 – There are at least 3 short sales currently listed in Glen ridge. And I am pretty certain that 2 more listings that don’t explicitly state “3rd party approval” are short as well. That’s out of a total of only 19 listings in town.
Kids want to do that stupid atlantis or beaches all inclusive thing. Too much drama during winter breaks to go
Juice Box says:
February 7, 2011 at 11:48 am
JJ – Caribbean during the summer? You must be an accountant. June 1 to November 30 is Hurricane season. Be sure to bring plenty of bug spray too.
John,
Just bite the bullet and do a cruise. We always do a multi-bedrom suite so we have one and the kids have one. They get their own bathroom and shower and We have a living room and either a dining area or full dining room. You can also get an attached Tom for extra sleeping space for the kids. Hire a nanny and it will cost you al of a few hundred extra dollars for the extra person.
The UK needs a Statue of Libertines:
Keep your tired, your poor, your huddled masses and send me your uber wealthy. I lift my torch beside the golden bank.
the quality of houses in the $550K asking range in GR varies unbelievably.
June 1 to November 30 is Hurricane season. Be sure to bring plenty of bug spray too.
I went to USVI in August last year. Got caught in Hurricane Hugo.
I rented a nice house on water island over looking the cliffs to the south. It was beautiful. Right before the storm the humidity spiked and was a bit suffocating. We rolled down the steel window/door covers and headed to the hurricane room where we sat in the air conditioning drinking, listening to the radio and playing dominoes. After the storm passed (1-2 hours?) we went back outside and the air pressure had dropped, humidity was very low, temperatures had dropped and it was amazing.
I’m combing the beach for conch shells the size of your head that have washed up on the shore. We had to stay out of the water for a few days as all the wastewater from the islands is pumped about a mile off-shore and the hurricane distrubs the natural flow pattern. I wouldn’t have even noticed unless the locals had said something.
It was cool looking at all the boats smashed up on the rocks and locals saying “shawn should have known better, why didn’t he put it (boat) in the mangroves on the lea side of the island, he should have known better”.
It is my rule of thumb that no one ever remembers trips where nothing unexpected happened and everything was a snore. I will never forget my time spent in USVI when Hugo hit the island. I loved the whole trip.
Renting a house down there in the off-season is a bit crazy but it was definitely different. The locals act different during the off-season then they do during the tourist season. The will stop and talk with you, share ice, beer and chat about this and that when normally they wouldn’t be bothered. I guess I was enchanted by the intimate window into a different lifestyle then the one I came from.
I don’t recall bugs being an issue in USVI during August. Yeah, no bugs from what I remember but that could be because a hurricane BLEW them all away. Sun tan lotion a must though even in the shade. Burned the top of my feet.
Grim, Clot, etc: I’ve lined up an appraiser to get an appraisal on my house for a tax appeal. My neighbor says her cousin is a realtor and said you need an assessor, not an appraiser? Is there such a thing as an independent tax assessor? What is this person talking about?
re #30 – JJ Atlantis is for Whiskey Tango, go out and buy Ed Hardy gear if you are going there. Try looking up Club Med in the DR or the Beaches Resorts in Turks, those are the better family all Inclusive. Cruise Ships are also great, lots of stops in the Carribean and day trips and usually very safe. If you are worried about falling overboard get an inside cabin.
J – You can hire an appraiser. You’ll have to pay for them to appear at your hearing and testify.
FYI – You don’t even have to hire an appraiser. You can simply represent yourself and use comparable sales if you feel comfortable enough.
[34] Nic
Bugs are an issue on St. Croix, at least in May. Not bad at the shore, but my friends went to the casino one night and the van blew a tire. While they waited, they got eaten alive. Meanwhile, I had a lovely dinner at Duggan’s, and when the owner found out I was a fellow alumnus, (UMass), free beer.
JJ
Total other direction…rent a villa. We’ve done Anguilla, St. Martin (French side), Barbados, and Virgin Gorda. All beachfront, not as unreasonable as you may think. Wife will love it (incredibly relaxing), kids will too. It’s amazing how well they occupy themselves when TVs, water slides, kids camp, and 450 other kids are removed from the picture. Plus, you can do things one on one with them that they’ll actually remember.
Had my 11 year old on his first scuba dive off VG. We took him down to 45 ft to the Chimneys. On the second dive most of us are in the water and one of the divemasters is getting my 8 year old primed with his snorkeling gear when the older boy puts his face in the water and yells ‘Shark!’. We had been spotting them on the bottom all day but this guy was up and cruising around. So the divemaster, wanting my youngest one to get a good look, scoops him up off the deck and slides him in the water. We all still bust a gut recounting what the little one’s face looked like on the way in as he was processing that he was being thrown into the water with a shark.
[37] gator
While you have had good success, there is always the risk that the town attorney will challenge the comparables. First, the sales themselves may be invalid for use as comps (more and more of them are), then the details themselves may be attacked as poor comparators. Having an appraiser that is a known entity for the town board will be a plus.
For those that do get appraisers, there are tricks I have learned to make sure your appraisal comes in lower. Some of it is “working the refs” and some of it requires some strategic planning.
[35] J
There may be appraisers that have also done assessments for towns. They may have more gravitas with the town board. I think that is where the comment was coming from. Otherwise, assessors are town functionaries and cannot be hired for the purpose of doing a single reval (and would probably be barred from doing so under rules against spot revaluations).
j (35)-
An appraiser can do this for you. Or, if your environment is rich with easy comps to your home, do it yourself. Those comps are the make-or-break part of the appeal.
Personally, I’d hire Gator just for the fun of tagging along with her and watching her badger my town’s tax crew.
Too many places so few time. BTW Every single room in Turks and Cacicos is sold out the week of July 3, 10 and 17 and only one or two rooms left for July 24 and July 31. This is the craziest recession ever, rooms that cost 10K a week sold out six months in advance and add in airfare like a 12k vacation yet they sold out a month in July in a place with 800 rooms. A bull market in stocks, commodities and bonds all at once. I guess everyone is now rich.
Nom 40 – As in anything in life, prcoeed with caution. You need to know your stuff. You can check the NJACTB database to see if sales are useable. You can get info from MLS listings and realtors knowledgeable about the comps. If you don’t know what you’re talking about, of course you’re better off hiring help. You want an appraiser that does appraisals specifically for tax appeals. Someone who has testified before the county board. Or you can always hire an attorney who specializes in this stuff. You pay through the nose (you’re paying the appraisal fee, a filing fee and a contingency fee of half of what you “save” the first year on your tax bill), but when we viewed hearings, every case handled by an attorney settled before hearing. All of those guys have relationships with the counsel representing the municipalities.
box (36)-
From what I read in the news, if you think there’s any reason you could end up overboard, best not to get on a cruise ship.
In fact, I’d say even having the thought of going overboard should be enough to warn you off getting on the boat.
I know if I’m thinking about ending up as shark food, there is someone I know who is willing to help make it happen.
Debt 45 – Clearly you haven’t spoke to Stu. He’s going to get on a boat with me this Spring and we haven’t even started our new house renovations yet.
grim says:
February 7, 2011 at 6:00 am
From the Record:
Bank can foreclose despite lost mortgage note, judge rules
A Bergen County judge has ruled that a lender can foreclose on a mortgage even if the lender doesn’t have the mortgage note because a previous lender lost it.
Terrible news.
My dog ate the mortgage note.
[44] gator,
I think that fleshes out my point.
One thing to add—if you consult an attorney that is experienced and reputable, and they agree to take the case, it will likely be money well spent. They won’t take cases that are losers or that won’t net them a return worth their time. Thus, I think it always makes sense to at least consult with an attorney that (a) focuses on this area and (2) is recommended.
Also, know how the town handles appeals. So. Orange is reputed for being uber tough, but Brigadoon is considered “reasonable.”
gator (47)-
Didja ever see the episode of The Simpsons where their vacation boat got attacked by a crocodile? Homer reassures them by saying being eaten by a crocodile is just like going to sleep…in a blender.
plume (50)-
No tax collecting entity in NJ can be labeled “reasonable”.
[52] debt
I am part of the system, remember?
When the crap hits the propeller, I am not sure whether you will have my back as a fellow curmudgeon, or targeting it as a former POTP.
USD, cotton, rice, wheat since the announcement of QE2. This is working so well, I’d say that QE3 is a lock for June.
Note: the USD is the white line.
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/Since%20Qe2%20Dollar%20and%20grains.jpg
[sarc off]
plume (53)-
“Part of the system” is part of the problem. :)
I remember when I was in college my friends mom got us on one of those cruises to nowhere, big cruise ship etc. We were on it one night all I remember was
Too much food, boat got rocky around midnight and friend threw up on disco floor when strobe light beer, and dinner and a midnight buffet got best of him. Friend hooking up with middle aged lady whose husband was in prision for over ten years and she could not get wet, did her in shower.
Tiny rooms.
No supervision, while drunk we threw like 20 deck chairs over at 3am. Thinking damm if I went over no one would know. Shady people working there, could easily kill you and throw you overboard, Lots and lots of so so food.
Like the Bronx at sea. Kinda like being on a Lost eposodie except most people are ugly
Debt Supernova says:
February 7, 2011 at 1:17 pm
box (36)-
From what I read in the news, if you think there’s any reason you could end up overboard, best not to get on a cruise ship.
In fact, I’d say even having the thought of going overboard should be enough to warn you off getting on the boat.
I am a traveler of both time and space To be where I have been. To sit with elders of a gentle race This world has seldom seen. They talk of days for which they sit and wait When all will be revealed
Just sold my 2033-20141 junk bonds, I now am fearing inflation. Kept my long term munis, all callable with crazy coupons. If they want to keep paying 5.5-7% coupons after the call date tax free so be it. When tax rates go up in two years bonds will be good.
Just Sold a 2041 Ford Bond at 101. Who even knows if there will be cars then. Sold a 2033 Citi bond at 91. Guess better odds of Ford in 2041 than Citi in 2033. Ouch.
jj (56)-
I like to think of my life as one of those cruises to nowhere.
“I remember when I was in college my friends mom got us on one of those cruises to nowhere…”
mike (57)-
Guaranteed those guys were doing something beside sipping tea in Kashmir when they penned that one.
JJ sounding the inflation horn at #58.
Rut roh.
‘Tis a byatch when yield must be paid.
If you had marijuana in the Montklair Bullock School drug bust pool, please come forward to claim your prize.
Drug Transaction
On Feb. 4 at about 4:05 p.m., detectives spotted two men engaging in a hand exchange that looked like a drug transaction along Mission Street. Shortly after the brief meeting, the pair began walking in separate directions. Detectives stopped the buyer, identified as Kimberly Harrison, in the area of Gates Avenue and Hawthorne Place. During the course of the investigation, police recovered two bags containing marijuana from Harrison. Harrison, 47, of Montclair was arrested and charged with possession of a controlled dangerous substance. He was later released.
Detectives identified the seller as Devon Marshall, 18, of Montclair. Marshall has been charged with possession of a controlled dangerous substance, distribution of a controlled dangerous substance, distribution of a controlled dangerous substance within five hundred feet of public housing located at 10 Pine Street, distribution of a controlled dangerous substance within 1,000 feet of Glenfield School, and distribution of a controlled dangerous substance within 1,000 feet of Bullock School. Bail for these charges has been set at $50,000. As of this writing, Marshall has not been located and is not in custody.
Anyone wishing to report drug activity is asked to contact 973-509-4720.
http://montclair.patch.com/articles/latest-police-blotter-more-drug-activity-near-montclair-schools
I pop on for 5 minutes while on luch to see what is going on and JJ as usual never disappoints.
“JJ sounding the inflation horn at #58.”
Man, I hope Midas is right again. I’ve got enough mortgage debt to make Trump jealous.
Finally, saw a house that really interested me and want to put in an offer. So, while I could potentially pay down 70%, I wanted to borrow 80% and started calling my bank for a mortgage. Get this, I apparently don’t qualify.
While I have been in the same line of business – software consulting, for a while, I started a new company last Jan. And I do not qualify for a mortgage because I dont have 2 years history.
Not sure what to make of it. Should I rent another year or if I should buy a cheaper place with 100% down. Any suggestions from the mortgage gurus here?
Bank can foreclose despite lost mortgage note, judge rules
A Bergen County judge has ruled that a lender can foreclose on a mortgage even if the lender doesn’t have the mortgage note because a previous lender lost it.
Grim,
I think that there is an interesting article by Tanta on the calulatedrisk site that details this. She was writing on this before she died and it was very informative for me. In general she goes about saying that it has been long standing tradition that a bank doesn’t need to produce a mortgage note in order to forclose because that would put undue responsibility on the bank for a single piece of paper. The alternative would be armored cars driving mortgage notes back and forth between banks instead of being sent by the USPS. Banks can and do lose mortgage notes all the time. Tanta gave a description of a bank who had a fire in the records department and after all was said and done all that was left was burnt soggy paper to look through. When they needed to forclose the bank sent bits of illegible paper and a notice saying that the note was destroyed in a fire.
I don’t think that this is terrible news, this doesn’t change the status quo. As long as a bank can prove the chain of custody, then they should have a right to forclose. IF A BANK CANT PROVE that it is the owner of the property/mortgage then they have no standing to forclose, simply not having the original paperwork is not an automatic disqualifier.
This case is drastically different than the high profile ones being bantered about because the bank lost the original note but has documentation from the first bank supporting their ownership. In the high profile ones you have banks with no proof whatsoever that they own the loan forclosing on the home. A bank must prove that they have a right to forclose before proceeding.
This case just represents banks doing the right thing in the first place in my opinion and I’m heartened that the process is still working.
JJ,
Think we’ll have wage inflation too? Or is that only reserved for the IBs who f’ed us?
stu (64)-
I’d like a third helping of debt, please.
rent (65)-
Lenders figure anyone self-employed in this economy is either stupid, crazy, broke, lying or all four.
According to Bojangles, businesses like yours and mine are the “generators of employment that will begin the serious economic recovery”, but until then we can basically be ignored, ridiculed, questioned, r@ped for taxes and otherwise treated like red-headed stepchildren.
My only advice to my kids is that whatever they do, make sure it isn’t comped with 1099-style payment.
RentLord,
Get a new bank? Apparently the bank that you are seeking a loan from is a bucket shop that is going to sell the loan to FME/FRE. What you need is a bank that intends to hold the mortgage instead of selling it for a quick buck. A bank like that would have professional loan officers that would comb through your records and that would show you are a good credit risk.
The loan officer that you spoke to is a box checker, if he can’t put a check in that box then the deal is dead.
It may be a lot of work to find a lender that is going to hold the loan. Try local credit unions or smaller banks local to the area. Some remote towns have banking co-ops that also still do that kind of lending.
OR you could just get a mortagage broker to do the heavy lifting for you.
Got our new assessment (automatic for Greenbrook Twp this year?)… Close to 6% reduction in assessed price. Between the lower assessment and increased rate, it may be a wash.
Rent,
Talk to Bob Farrell at First Valley Funding, he should be able to let you know what your options are.
Debt Super #69 – yea, seriously!
Thanks Nicholas. I am talking to a Wachovia’s mortgage consultant now- my biz acct is with them. The consultant wants to talk to her managers about the ‘grey’ area.
Funny thing is I held and paid off 2 mortgages in the past. I have a ‘very good’ (one step lower than ‘excellent’) credit score… but none of it counts to the average mortgage broker.
[55] debt
Hence my concern.
Oh, happy day for me. My first BAC shorty sale under the new, automated system!
“Thank you for initiating a short sale with Bank of America. Our welcome team will be attempting to contact you within the next five business days. This team is committed to preparing you for the short sale process and answering any questions you may have. Enclosed is an overview of the process including key information to successfully complete a short sale. This information will be discussed during the welcome call, as well.
Please be aware that the welcome call you will receive is part of a pilot program that will reach only a small number of agents who have initiated short sales. Due to the small size of this pilot program, it is very likely that you will not receive a call on future initiations.
Following the welcome call, please direct all communications to your short sale specialist through the Equator messaging system, or to our Customer Care specialists who can be reached by calling 1.866.880.1232. Again, thank you for initiating a short sale with Bank of America.”
[71] sas3
“Between the lower assessment and increased rate, it may be a wash.”
That’s by design.
[75] debt
I will have absolutely nothing to do with BofA.
That said, I love the BofA logo. Whenever any mail comes to the house with it, I can divert it right to the shredder without having to look at it.
plume (74)-
Don’t worry. You’re way down the list of people I’d shoot. ;)
All the property tax guru’s here might find this interesting
Last spring, Morris filed suit against the Fulton County Board of Tax Assessors, alleging the county inflated values in scores of neighborhoods by using foreclosures seizures as comparable sales. The seizures, termed credit-bid sales, represent not money changing hands, but unpaid mortgages when a bank takes over a house. He also says appraisers are disregarding valid sales and arbitrarily setting neighborhoods’ average prices.
Morris and his lead attorney, John Woodham, have begun a process that could take the lawsuit into uncharted and, for the county government, potentially treacherous territory. Morris is seeking the right to sue not just over the value of an investment property he owns on Pegg Road near East Point, but on behalf of every overvalued residential property owner in four — and possibly six — high-foreclosure zip codes who hasn’t already appealed.
That would include Johnson’s zip code (30310). According to data Morris compiled through open records requests, the county used nothing but credit-bid sales and threw out real sales when it set values in her neighborhood near Westview Cemetery.
http://www.ajc.com/news/north-fulton/tax-lawsuit-looms-over-830087.html
Getting nervous, people are spending like crazy again, Atlantis, Beaches, Mohonk, BMWs, 10K superbowl tickets. Heck I was selling Jets tickets this year for $1,000 a pair that in November 2008 I could not get $400 a pair. Crazy stuff. That said I don’t know where people are getting the money. But if they keep spending manufacturers etc. will start raising prices and hence inflation. Look at mortgage rates, commodities, oil all up.
Also 23% rise in stock market since August 27, that also puts wind in peoples sails.
Considering April 2009 I was 80K into margin on Junk bonds to today when I am 90K in cash that is a decent swing. For once I am starting to keep powder dry and start to sell all bonds 2030-2041 range which are the longest range in my bond portfolio. Can sell everything as under 5 years still pays nothing in interest. But beyond 20 is just wild risk taking that paid off in 2009 and 2010 but is starting to look silly in 2011
Libtard In the City says:
February 7, 2011 at 1:55 pm
“JJ sounding the inflation horn at #58.”
Man, I hope Midas is right again. I’ve got enough mortgage debt to make Trump jealous.
Rinse & Repeat
WASHINGTON (AP) — Americans are putting more money on their credit cards after two years of cutting back, helping fuel the third straight monthly increase in consumer borrowing.
The Federal Reserve reports consumers increased their borrowing by $6.1 billion in December to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of $2.41 trillion. That represented a gain of 3 percent.
Borrowing in the category that includes credit cards rose 3.5 percent, the first advance after a record 27 straight monthly declines. Borrowing on auto loans was up 2.8 percent.
Even with the December gains, consumer borrowing is just 0.7 percent higher than the more than three-year low hit in September. It is 6.6 percent below the high set in July 2008.
Of course, the Bernank paying top dollar for one-ply Marcal asswipe in 3-4 POMOs a week has nothing to do with any of this inflation stuff.
It’s all people buying Tiffany’s and Super Bowl tix.
Just ask any guy on the street in Tunisia.
Big Ben, Fed can’t create inflation, it can only set the stage. It needs the public to start spending the cheap money. Case in point, me!!! Number one cheapskate. Ben is buying bonds which are driving prices down. Ben also told us once he stops buying prices will tank. So I take bait and sell him 100K worth of bonds, Now I have 100K I like a pig want to reinvest but I can’t as rates are so low not worth it so I throw it in bank account paying near zero which makes me want to spend it. Hence wife wants to take a vacation with the money sitting around doing nothing.
Ben did not cause inflation. But when people have large amounts of cash earning near zero they want to spend.
Debt Supernova says:
February 7, 2011 at 3:11 pm
Of course, the Bernank paying top dollar for one-ply Marcal asswipe in 3-4 POMOs a week has nothing to do with any of this inflation stuff.
It’s all people buying Tiffany’s and Super Bowl tix.
Just ask any guy on the street in Tunisia.
Now this is getting worse Snookie is in row one for Nets. Fregging Snookie. And I am stuck with John Amos, whats next Sqreech from Saved by the Bell in row two.
[78] debt
That your way of saying “I like you Sully. That’s why I’m going to kill you last”?
Also, power out at Newark airport. Air tran monorail stuck on its track. Sucks for those people.
SAS3 71 – Probably. Unless homes in other neighborhoods in your town dropped less.
com: i’m stuck in ewr, sitting on the plane. Apparently we can not detach from the gate because power outage. Heck, we could probably pull the plane out ourselves but i guess union rules prevent that. Passengers getting restless.
#84 JJ – I was at a Nets game a couple of weeks ago. Both John Amos and Snookie were in attendance.
[87] jamil
Or, could be that if they leave the gate, they would be subject to the rules that penalize carriers for leaving passengers on planes on the tarmac. So they stay at the gate so that they aren’t subject to the rules, or can deplane you when the deadline nears.
How the heck does an airport lose power? Where is John McClain when you need him?
[88] 30 year
It’s the Nets. Good Seats Still Available.
I think that they should put Kimbo Slice in the front row.
now ground crew try to pull us from the gate and close the gate door. Hope it works.
jamil,
If the cabin door is closed, you’re not allowed to use approved electronic devices any longer. Don’t make me call the TSA on you.
yeah, leaving ewr
JJ: I have a very similar story except it was the woman who got sick after disappearing with the guy for about 90 minutes. When she threw up on the dance floor, there was jizz mixed into it……
56.JJ says:
February 7, 2011 at 1:40 pm
I remember when I was in college my friends mom got us on one of those cruises to nowhere, big cruise ship etc. We were on it one night all I remember was
Too much food, boat got rocky around midnight and friend threw up on disco floor when strobe light beer, and dinner and a midnight buffet got best of him. Friend hooking up with middle aged lady whose husband was in prision for over ten years and she could not get wet, did her in shower.
I’ll bet whenever Jamil can’t attain an erection he blames the liberals.
95 reminds me of friend who left party got bj was back into party in five minutes bragging then we saw second friend who did not know making out with her. But get this no BJ. Just kissing.
A few years later I got a quickie BJ and made sure all my friends knew who gave it to prevent a similar incident.
Actually that is shortest and sadest story ever, went to a dump in Hampton bays, did one dance with a local girl on a weeknight, said have you ever been in a ride in a mercedes convert, she said no, I said let me take you for a spin, spin consisted in ride to back of lot for a bj, and ride back to front of lot. I think same song was still playing when I got back inside. But hey the girl in one night got to be the world record holder for shortest date in a Mercedes AND met a guy who sits in same row as John Amos, now them some Good Times.
rent (65)-
Lenders figure anyone self-employed in this economy is either stupid, crazy, broke, lying or all four.
“According to Bojangles, businesses like yours and mine are the “generators of employment that will begin the serious economic recovery”, but until then we can basically be ignored, ridiculed, questioned, r@ped for taxes and otherwise treated like red-headed stepchildren.
My only advice to my kids is that whatever they do, make sure it isn’t comped with 1099-style payment.”
Preach it.
jj (84)-
Dude, John Amos is a riot. I did some RE work for him a few years ago. Great guy.
Not getting hassled, not getting hustled.
Keepin’ your head above water,
Making a wave when you can.
Temporary lay offs. – Good Times.
Easy credit rip offs. – Good Times.
Scratchin’ and surviving. – Good Times.
Hangin in a chow line – Good Times.
Ain’t we lucky we got ‘em – Good Times.
Chi, thanks for sharing. Why is your posts on JJ topics always sound creepier?
Why is it that…
jj (97)-
Funny. I thought that title belonged to your, er, member.
“Actually that is shortest and sadest story ever”
relo (102)-
I think it has something to do with Depeche Mode.
jj (100)-
That show made sure Mr. Amos don’t hang in no chow line.
He still works almost nonstop.
ChiFi [95];
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/red-card-record-for-premier-league-1813341.html
I’m trying to guess the song JJ came back to and fro…..
Happy Birthday?
Star spangled banner?
Stairway to Heaven?
Aw geez….. one commercial and all Detroit’s forgotten
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Super-Bowl-ad-sends-shivers-apf-3398993308.html?x=0&.v=2
How about Camden next year does a Super Bowl commericial using Mike Rozier dodging bullets on a bike trail?
Replace “state” with “pill” in the following:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-07/wall-street-knows-meltdown-was-just-bad-dream-commentary-by-simon-johnson.html
108: “Ten Seconds to Love”.
or 107.
104.Debt Supernova says:
February 7, 2011 at 5:02 pm
relo (102)- I think it has something to do with Depeche Mode.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52nmHqf-FZY
Move to Detroit, get a job as a Cop and buy a house for $1,000 with a 150K grant for remodeling. As ChiFi says “end is nigh” I wonder if one can get an interior designer if they negotiate a little.
Mayor Dave Bing today announced an unprecedented program to entice police officers to move back into the city by offering ownership of 200 tax-foreclosed homes in two of the city’s most stable neighborhoods.
Flanked by top police brass and administration officials, Bing helped detail the program called “Project 14” in which foreclosed homes will be available in the East English Village and Boston-Edison neighborhoods. The program name alludes to police code for “back to normal.”
Officers will pay up to $1,000 for the houses and receive up to $150,000 in federal grants to rehab them. City officials said the homes are in good shape for abandoned properties but need some work.
From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110207/METRO/102070380/Bing-to-cops–Move-to-city–get-$1-000-home–fix-it-funds#ixzz1DJpDttRB
make (113)-
Interior designers in Detroit come shoot up your crib with an Uzi.
Make: Eataly is in your back pocket, yes? Is it good or a waste of time? I have some friends coming down from Boston, and we are going to get sloshed around Flatiron…..
I hear Eataly has Albanian ex-cons as waiters.
You thought the leaden winter
Would bring you down forever
But you rode upon a steamer
To the violence of the sun
Was there on Saturday picking up some goodies for a dinner party. Didn’t spend all my paycheck there, so we went to lunch at Casa Mono to finish it off.
From the Star Ledger:
More than 1,000 laid off in grocery bankruptcy
For Quaglia and 1,100 employees of Woodbridge Logistics, a subsidiary of New Hampshire-based C&S Wholesale Grocers, reality sunk in over the weekend. Despite an eleventh-hour plea last week from officials and union leaders, the distributor for the troubled A&P and Pathmark supermarket chains laid off its entire New Jersey work force and shuttered all six locations.
“I never thought in my worst dreams this would happen,” said Quaglia, 47, who is facing unemployment for the first time.
The layoffs come less than two months after the Great Atlantic & Pacific Tea Co., the operator of A&P and Pathmark, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.
The filing has created a ripple effect, with Grocery Haulers, the Woodbridge-based trucking company that serves A&P, also threatening to lay off 330 workers by last Sunday. Grocery Haulers did not return repeated phone calls yesterday to confirm the layoffs, but a Labor Department filing shows the company cited a sudden contract termination with A&P.
Make [113];
Bad plan. You don’t want a neighborhood full of cop families in the middle of Detroit ruins. It would be like a fortress. What an urban planner really wants is to have their off-duty cops spread out to ‘innoculate’ the entire population. Besides, who would want a police force full of people who would fall for a gimick like that?
Like tales of John’s school daze:
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/crime/female-gym-teacher-accused-of-sex-acts-with-football-players-1072802.html
This should start some interesting discusssions
“By one measure, Fed taxes are lowest since 1950.”
http://custom.yahoo.com/taxes/article-112061-0c8961e7-144f-45ba-920f-8df98fd4d028-by-one-measure-federal-taxes-lowest-since-1950
How do you guys like this boat? I’m thinking about it for my new house. A man can dream cant he? Its really good is rough seas.
We will be filing a tax appeal as well. Thanks for the info re: appraisers etc.
Forgot link. http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/photoGallery.jsp?ro=1&slim=quicknull&r=2274935&checked_boats=2274935&rs=yachtworld.com&boat_id=2274935&back=/core/boats/2005/Glacier-Bay-3480-Glacier-2274935/Fort-Lauderdale/FL/United-States&boat_id=2274935
Al, nice, didn’t know Winnebago makes boats. only kiding
This is from the NYT about a couple who were sick of having an open house every weekend.
———————
Antonio del Rosario of Rutenberg Realty, …..said that even though Mr. Hatch and Ms. Huters received an offer close to their $825,000 asking price, they could have received nearly $900,000 if they had waited until spring, when buyers would not have to trudge through snow and ice to see their home.
———————-
Again with the weather. You should definitely trust your broker who has an open house every weekend, as opposed to bringing in a buyer with $$.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/nyregion/08robbery.html
Anyone hear anything about the shooting in Bridgewater this afternoon?
93, my cellphone is always on. Take that, tsa!
A lady goes to her priest one day and tells him, ‘Father, I have a problem.
I have two female parrots,
But they only know to say one thing.’
‘What do they say?’ the priest asked.
They say, ‘Hi, we’re hookers! Do you want to have some fun?’
‘That’s obscene!’ the priest exclaimed,
Then he thought for a moment…..
‘You know,’ he said, ‘I may have a solution to your problem. I have two male talking parrots, which I have taught to pray and read the Bible…
Bring your two parrots over to my house, and we’ll put them in the cage with Francis and Peter.
My parrots can teach your parrots to pray and worship,
And your parrots are sure to stop saying… That phrase… In no time.’
‘Thank you,’ the woman responded, ‘this may very well be the solution.’
The next day,
She brought her female parrots to the priest’s house….
As he ushered her in,
She saw that his two male parrots
were inside their cage holding rosary beads and praying…
Impressed,
She walked over and placed her parrots in with them…
After a few minutes,
The female parrots cried out in unison:
“Hi, we’re hookers! Do you want to have some fun?”
There was stunned silence…
Shocked, One male parrot looked over at the other male parrot and says,
‘Put the beads away, Frank,
Our prayers have been answered!
Cool posting, I really expect posts of your stuff.
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