From the Record:
Location still holds key to value
The decline in housing values has not fallen equally on all towns.
A Record analysis of home prices in the first half of 2011 (the latest available in public records) found that, overall, prices were down about 3 percent in Bergen and Passaic counties from the period a year earlier. (Prices are down 17 percent in Bergen and 21.6 percent in Passaic since 2007, when housing prices peaked.)
But in early 2011 at least, wealthier towns generally fared better than lower-income areas affected by the foreclosure crisis.
In addition, less-affluent towns were more affected by tighter mortgage standards and unemployment above 9 percent.
Geography played a role, too.
Towns in eastern Bergen County, close to the George Washington Bridge, also seemed to hold their value better from 2010 to 2011.
From the Press of Atlantic City:
South Jersey towns see more than 16 percent increase in vacant homes
U.S. Census reports show that while the number of total housing units increased nationally by almost 14 percent from 2000 to 2010, the number of vacant housing units ballooned by almost 44 percent.
Michael Busler, a fellow at the William J. Hughes Center for Public Policy at Richard Stockton College, says the gloomy trend may not have reached its end point. “It’s going to get a little bit worse before it gets better,” he said.
New Jersey’s numbers are just as striking — an increase in housing of more than 7 percent while the number of vacant units increased by more than 38 percent. One Essex County town, Belleville, for example, saw the number of vacant housing units jump 134 percent as the number of overall units went up just 1 percent.
Locally, 14 of 23 Atlantic County municipalities have seen the number of vacant housing units increase by 16 percent or more from 2000 to 2010. In addition, 11 of 16 towns in Cape May County and 10 of 14 towns in Cumberland County have seen a similar jump.
“People are becoming frustrated by the system, and a lot of them are walking away from properties,” said James Schroeder, an attorney and real estate agent with Keller Williams in Northfield. He cited statistics from the New Jersey Law Review stating that there were 1.5 million homes nationwide in foreclosure and ready for sale, another 3.5 million to 4 million within three to six months of being sold.
In the end, he said, his company believes that it will be another five to seven years before the traditional housing market picks up again.
…
Cape May County saw an overall increase in vacant units for sale, not seasonal, of 75 percent compared with just an 8 percent increase in total units.Upper Township saw an increase of 232 percent (83 vacant units for sale in 2010 compared with 25 in 2000), while Cape May saw a 245 percent increase (38 compared to 11), Wildwood Crest a 442 percent increase (130 compared to 24) and Cape May Point a whopping 650 percent increase (15 compared to 2).
Nine Atlantic County towns have seen increases in vacant units for sale of 75 percent or more, including increases of 100 percent in Longport and Estell Manor, 111 percent in Buena Vista Township, 126 percent in Linwood and 204 percent in Somers Point — which saw the number of homes vacant and for sale almost triple, going from 24 in 2000 to 73 in 2010.
Nine other towns in the county have a double-digit increase in the percentage of vacant units for sale, leading to a 32 percent increase overall — in a county that saw just an 11 percent increase in total units.
In Ocean County, the number of homes vacant and for sale in Barnegat Township more than doubled (76 to 172). In Stafford Township, that figure jumped from 151 to 272.
Top of the morning to ya Mike and New Jersey
From the IBT:
U.S. Home Prices Seen Flat in 2012, S-l-o-w-l-y Rising in 2013: Poll
The five-year slide in U.S. home prices will stop this year, followed by the start of a weak recovery next year, according to a Reuters poll that also showed economists split on whether the government would make new efforts to support the market.
A poll of 23 economists and analysts found a consensus for no change in the S&P/Case-Shiller home-price index in 2012, compared with a median 0.3 percent decline that was forecast in the last poll in November.
Many say that a recovery in the housing market is a key requirement for any vigorous rebound in the world’s largest economy. The spectacular collapse in U.S. housing — leading to average prices plummeting by one-third — was the trigger for the 2007-2009 financial crisis and related recession.
Transcripts released on Thursday of Federal Reserve policy meetings in 2006, the year before the crash, showed its officials thought the market was stabilizing, even as late as December that year. Private-sector economists did no better.
The meager 1.5 percent gain expected in 2013 will offer little comfort to the millions of Americans trapped in negative equity — owing more to their mortgage lenders, and in some cases much more, than their houses are worth.
“I think we are seeing stabilization, but unfortunately it’s stability at the bottom,” said Lindsey Piegza, economist at FTN Financial, describing the grinding halt to several years of relentless price declines.
Freezing Rain forecast for tonight,
From the NY Post:
‘They took my place!’ Single dad trying to take back home occupied by OWS
They’re occupying his home.
Occupy Wall Street protesters announced with great fanfare last month that they moved a homeless family into a “foreclosed” Brooklyn home — even though they knew the house belonged to a struggling single father desperately trying to renegotiate his mortgage, The Post has learned.
“They’re trying to take a house and say the bank is robbing the people because the mortgage is too high — so contact the owner!” fumed Wise Ahadzi, 28, who owns the home at 702 Vermont St. in East New York.
Occupiers “reclaimed” the row house on Dec. 6 and ceremoniously put out the welcome mat for a homeless family.
But Bank of America, which has been in and out of foreclosure proceedings against Ahadzi since 2009, confirmed to The Post that he is still the rightful owner.
Meanwhile, the family that OWS claimed to be putting into the vacant house has not yet permanently moved in. And it turns out the family is not a random victim of the foreclosure crisis, but cast for the part, thanks to their connection to the OWS movement.
OWS last week said it has spent $9,500 breaking into the house and setting it up for the homeless Carrasquillo family. A photo of the smiling family covers a window, under the slogan, “A place to call home.”
The head of the family, Alfredo Carrasquillo, 28, is an organizer for VOCAL- NY, a group that works with OWS. His Facebook page shows him in a “99 Percent” T-shirt at an OWS protest in November.
The Post visited the Vermont Street home last week — six weeks after OWS announced that the Carrasquillos were moving in — and the family was nowhere to be found.
In fact, the only people occupying the house were occupiers themselves.
“They only stay here sometimes,” a protester named Charlie said of the Carrasquillos. “There’s not enough room for the kids.”
The occupier refused to say how many others were inside, but at least two more protesters could be seen at the house, along with mattresses on the floor, during The Post visit.
“We’re almost done with the basement,” he said of the renovations.
The real property owner is livid because he could be raising his two little girls, Imani, 3, and Kwazha, 10, in the two-story home instead of in a meager, two-bedroom rental in Brownsville while he tries to sort out his mortgage nightmare.
Police notified him in early December that the vigilante vagrants moved into his East New York digs, he said. He immediately ran over to the house to see for himself.
“Oh, don’t call the police!” an occupier begged him.
The level of idiocy here is astounding… Thank goodness for economists that can make sense of it all.
From HousingWire:
Dallas Fed: Home prices lacked economic balance long before downturn
Home prices outpaced actual inflation in the decade leading up to the financial crisis, according to a report from the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas.
Fed researchers Adrienne Mack and Enrique Martinez-Garcia said the 2007 global financial crisis was similar to the great moderation period of 1984 when comparing the two cycles on gross domestic product alone. But differences emerge when comparing them on home prices.
Volatility in home prices subsided somewhat after the 1984 slow down, but home prices continued to rise in the aftermath of the 2001 recession.
“By 2007, emerging strains in housing markets and financial turmoil plunged the world economy into a deep and protracted recession from which recovery is ongoing,” the researchers wrote. “In the aftermath of that recession, the growth of real (inflation-adjusted) house prices appears to have moved out of step with the growth of real economic activity — indicating a possible break with the recent past.”
The imbalance between economic growth and home prices first emerged in the 1990s, the report contends.
“The house price growth rate kept climbing until around 2005, even though real GDP growth didn’t similarly increase and even weakened around the 2001 recession,” the researchers added. “This apparent divergence is somewhat less evident for the U.S., but it can be argued that house price growth in the U.S. also resumed in the 1990s and outperformed real GDP growth in the first half of the 2000s.”
From your first link,
Regarding West Milford,
I casually know Dennis Decina from around town, know his boss Mark Werner better, I got to 100% agree with Decina’ s blurb comments.
Lake houses have seen real price increases, I’m kicking myself for not buying in, the rent vs/ buy equation is at equilibrium in West Milford, and plenty of people I know who looked at WM ended up buying in Fair Lawn, Ramsey or older Wyckoff homes or other lower end suburban towns in Bergen county.
YOY Median Price:
Ramsey (-7.3%)
Midland Park (-12.8%)
Wyckoff (-1.3%)
Oradell (-12.5%)
Westwood (-24%)
Hillsdale ( -6.0%)
Ridgewood ( -0.1%)
Rivervale (-10.7%)
River Edge (-7.2%)
Mahwah (-3.6%)
We’re not done yet. Any questions?
Gary 6 I wonder what that % is for Vernon. I’m sure it would make those look like a walk in the park. No access to data unfortunately.
We hear things like, “We’re back to 2001 prices.”, etc. That’s nominal pricing. Has anybody come across a calculation of where we are right now for price, inflation-adjusted?
#9 The Original NJ Expat
Regarding inflation adjusted house pricing, yes the numbers are out there using various inflation indexes compared against Case Schiller and CoreLogic.
CalculatedRisk has linked to them, I think Hugh Smith did a blog series on them some time back.
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2011/08/real-house-prices-and-price-to-rent.html
http://www.housingviews.com/2011/09/08/inflation-adjusted-home-prices/
newer graphs using CPI inflation index:
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2011/12/real-house-prices-and-house-price-to.html
#7 Mike – agreed. I had a girlfriend who bought one of the high up ski condos new in 1987. I think I skiied 80 days from her trailside condo in 87-88 (Why would I have a job if I had a girlfriend with a new slope-side condo?) I traced through the deeds on that place a couple weeks ago as well as a couple neighbors and the Vernon swings have been horrendous. She bought brand new at $95K in 87, sold for something like $75K in 90 or 91, her neighbor with an identical unit sold his also for a similar loss as late as 94. Some unlucky couple ended up buying by old gf’s place at the peak (August 07) for something like $172k and Zillow has it at $115K right now. So $95K to $115K in 25 years. I’m sure there’s other factors like their HOA might be a mess, but still!
#9 & 10 LOL – I just dug through CR and was going to post the new link that you already posted in 10. Thanks, the last link contains the chart I was looking for. So it looks like we’re knocking on the door of 1998 pricing:
http://www.crgraphs.com/2011/10/house-price-graphs.html
Going on step further, we’re now at the same pricing for housing as the late 1950’s , adjusting for inflation
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/08/26/weekinreview/27leon_graph2.html
#6 gary: And most of the towns on your list are all train towns.
We were out again open housing yesterday. When the Realtor asked where are you moving from, and I said the land of Unicorns, realtor exclaimed OMG!!!! the taxes there are so high. This happens all the time now.
3b,
When we discuss real estate and house prices in Northern NJ, the first topic on the list before bathrooms, kitchens, granite, stainless, location and all the rest of the blah, blah bullsh1t should be taxes. Everything else is a distant 2nd. They will continue to rise unabated because the masses are generally powerless to do anything else but pay them through extortion or either move entirely or have their house confiscated. They win, we lose, always.
Compound it with jobs that will never come back on top of the removal of benefits completely and you will continue to see a slow and steady blood loss. Every facet of the cost of living in our area has totally disregarded the concept of inflation and have replaced it with extortion of epic magnitude. The only thing left to be squeezed with brute force will be the price of houses. We’re in the middle innings.
grim,
unmoderate me.
Gary, good call
Pats 45
Tebow !0
gary says:
January 13, 2012 at 3:15 pm
Nom,
Pats – 44
Tebow -9
yo,
I had predicted the Giants at 34 – 20 before the game but didn’t post it. :) Let it be known, that when I say we’re still in the middle innings around here for house prices, perhaps the masses should believe me. ;)
Battered by the boom-and-bust housing market, the landscape surveyed by census takers in 2010 was dotted with empty homes and apartments. In Duval County, the number of vacant housing units soared 77 percent, and the increase was similar in Baker, Clay and St. Johns counties. For similar reasons, relatively fewer of those properties were owner-occupied, with a higher proportion of renters than in 2000.
#18 gary So no agonizingly slow recovery in 2013??
Just agony, 3b. Just agony.
it will be interesting to see this play out, as it will affect BHO’s strength and will also affect the economy in various ways:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-14/obama-recess-appointments-challenged-by-trade-groups-in-lawsuit.html
President Barack Obama’s recess appointment of three members to the National Labor Relations Board was challenged in court by the National Federation of Independent Business, which claims a constitutional violation.
The filing yesterday may be the first legal action targeting the White House appointments made without Senate confirmation on Jan. 4 during a brief congressional break. It was made as part of an existing lawsuit in federal court in Washington over a new NLRB rule that requires employers to notify workers of their rights to form a union.
Without a legal quorum, the board has no authority to enforce the rule, the NFIB, which was joined by four other groups and companies in the filing, argued.
“The grounds for the motion are that very significant events have transpired since the filing of the complaints in this case, particularly within the last ten days,” according to the filing. “The president purported to appoint the new members without the advice and consent of the Senate.”
Republican lawmakers criticized Obama’s decision to name three NLRB members and the first head of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, Richard Cordray, during the congressional recess when the Senate was in so-called pro forma session.
The Constitution gives presidents the power to make appointments when the Senate is in recess. Republicans won bipartisan agreement to keep Congress in pro forma sessions every three days through the holidays in an attempt to keep Obama from filling vacancies.
snip
Bojangles vs. Romney. One white, one black, not much difference between the two. Both wholly-owned and operated by banksters; banksters win if either is elected.
It’s all over but the crying, folks. Our descent to Third World sinkhole is almost complete.
What would Dr. King think of Bojangles?
Not so much, methinks.
I see people on this board recommend buying with as little down as possible, but if you go with less than 20% down, don’t you pay a much higher rate? Even if less than 417K?
Also, if you go with 20% down, how easy is it to get a home equity line?
For those here who bought and are doing renovations, how did you finance it all to make sense?
Hi all – I sold my Essex County house in 2009, and have rented since. (been reading this blog for maybe 5 years or so). Now, I have renters’ fatigue – rental housing is often very crappy – and would like a bit more space, so I am interested in buying again. Any thoughts about Red Bank and surrounds? I can get a decent house there for in the 300’s with taxes in the 6’s, and be near the beach. Being on the train line seems like it should preserve some resale value. But I don’t know the area. Can anyone who does please chime in? Thanks in advance.
wendy (26)-
Renters’ fatigue is nothing, compared to property tax fatigue.
Oh…and the current collapse in prices is in about the fourth inning in Red Bank.
Other than that, it’s a great time to buy.
Abandon hope, all ye who enter here.
Hey Wendy. I’m a big fan of that area. Would love to move to Fair Haven or Rumson. Highly rated school system, lots of parks, the beach, and a little more interesting topography than towns further south near the shore. Plus Red Bank seems to have a smidge more urban culture than most of the surrounding area. Good luck.
anyone have an opinion on real estate prices in South Jersey – Marlton/Medford area? Been renting the last few years thanks to this site but would like to buy eventually.
#25 t c m: Not with FHA.
Wendy says:
January 16, 2012 at 1:04 pm
Hi all – I sold my Essex County house in 2009, and have rented since. (been reading this blog for maybe 5 years or so). Now, I have renters’ fatigue – rental housing is often very crappy – and would like a bit more space, so I am interested in buying again. Any thoughts about Red Bank and surrounds? I can get a decent house there for in the 300′s with taxes in the 6′s, and be near the beach. Being on the train line seems like it should preserve some resale value. But I don’t know the area. Can anyone who does please chime in? Thanks in advance.
Wendy: be careful….this area is the outer edge of a commute to NYC; if you go beyond about 15 minutes to the train stations or Ferries then prices QUICKLY fall off a cliff….remember that 90 minutes door-to-door is considered a hellish commute, so look at the train schedules and then add 15-20 minutes on the front and back sides of the times….it puts it all in perspective very quickly……the other factor is a westward commute to the US 1 corridor near Princeton….no jobs locally….
3B: When I did my math on the FHA, it was more costly enough for me to opt for an 80-10-10. If you plan to jingle mail, than the premium for FHA is well worth it. If you think you won’t be way underwater anytime soon, then you are best to just put the 20% down and get the lowest interest rate possible.
TCM: As for financing improvements? If you don’t have the cash to do it, then rid yourself of the financing concept. The deduction for loan interest sounds nice, but calculate how much quicker you could be underwater. Home improvements do not return what they once did. Not even close. If you can’t afford the improvements in cash, then forget about them. Rome wasn’t built in a day. We don’t even have window treatments in our newer Glen Ridge home. Just those ugly roll up blinds. Still building shelves in the bathrooms. Would have been done by now but my Craftsmen table saw blade and motor won’t go up any more. Very annoying and it’s too cold out to tinker with it. Was going to attempt these precise cuts with my portable circular saw, but I suck at cutting straight lines (on an angle) with it.
BTW, getting a HELOC now is much harder than it was even a year ago. We were rejected the last go around even though we have awesome credit and a lot of assets. We didn’t plan on tapping it, but wanted it as an insurance policy. The bank said no. I didn’t pursue it. Will probably try again in the Spring when we pay off our two 0% credit card loans (no transaction fees). I think this excessive credit-card debt was their main factor in saying no to us. Even though we have the money to pay off the 0% debt which is making us 1% interest in an Ally Bank online account earmarked for this purpose. We’ll pay it off when it comes due in March. Will reapply for the Heloc in the Spring and will let you know how it goes this time around if you are interested.
#33 Lib: I Have a bib cjunk of cash, just finished paying for one college ( a year ago),and now paying for another (cash). I would rather pay the upfront premium and monthly insurance and still keep a nice big chunk of cash. I plan to prepay it too, when after this tuition is paid.
I have made the decesion to do it now. The rental is getting real shabby looking, the owner is maaking noises about wanting me to buy it again, so I assume at soem point he will want to sell it. So I might as well go now. No jingle mail for us, children of immigrants we pay our bills.
Anyone who can get a HELOC should immediately equity strip to the max, then default.
Wendy :26
You’re going to want to be careful in Red Bank, be conscious of the East-side/West-side differences. I think you could get a better overall deal in Fair Haven than in Red Bank, and still have access to the “Hip City” thing that RB is always bragging about. In the longer run, you would be in a better school district, and be closer to the Ocean beaches.
Meat. RE: Heloc to the Max.
We considered it. If housing somehow double dips. We have combined liabilities of about 650K in mortgage and credit card debt. Plus close to 200K more in credit card space. Add in a 75K HELOC and we could default magnificently. Trust me, if I get some kind of terminal illness, I’m taking a trip to the moon with the whole blog.
Gary=Tebow
gary says:
January 16, 2012 at 11:16 am
yo,
I had predicted the Giants at 34 – 20 before the game but didn’t post it. :) Let it be known, that when I say we’re still in the middle innings around here for house prices, perhaps the masses should believe me. ;)
I’ve met Gary. He is not Tim Tebow.
Thanks Meat, prtraders, ChiFi and Fiddy.
Further thoughts/comments also appreciated re Red Bank and nearby areas.
24
“What would Dr. King think of Bojangles?
Not so much, methinks.”
Ditto your use of “Bojangles,” I would think.
If he asked why only the half black man gets the name calling when nobody Jewish, Catholic, Irish, Italian, etc., does, what would the answer?
41
Are you under the impression that only Pres. Obama has been called names? No other white politicians, presidents, etc have been made fun of?
Wake me up when there’s a Jewish president.
Tard – “If housing somehow double dips.”
Who said the first dip was over?
Juice,
It’s not over, probably not by a ways. But I do solidly feel that the years of 8-9% declines are over. I could be wrong. It wouldn’t be the first time. Probably the third though. :P
#43 You will be sleeping a long time!!!
42 —
Not here, not the old-fashioned, nasty ethnic and racial names that people don’t say out loud in public anymore, the kind that most people don’t use in private anymore, either.
Actually I call Obama names myself. I voted for him in 2008 and have said before, and will say again, that I wish to God he wasn’t running again. But of course all this is besides the point.
#35 Lib…Will probably try again in the Spring when we pay off our two 0% credit card loans (no transaction fees).
Let me guess, one is Chase, the other Citi? I was surprised last May/June when true 0% credit cards were coming my way like it was 2006 again. I took the Chase one, never filled out the Citi one. I have to pay Chase back the $20K they’ve been letting me use for free this Spring too. Interestingly, I had a couple Citi cards with zero balances that they cancelled a few years ago when the credit crisis broke. Never heard a peep about cutting credit from bac, jpm, usbank but Citi pulled both my cards right quick, so they haven’t been in my wallet for the last few years, I guess they wanted to get back in. Also of interest (pun intended), was that the zero percent offers came quick on the heels of a quick run up in my credit card balances last April when you could still buy Gold cheap on eBay. I intended to pay the purchases off immediately, but transferred the debt at 0% to Chase instead.
#45 I don’t know if it is over ( very doubtful IMO), but I can say I have never seen asking prices lower since the bubble burst.
#48 I am getting checks every day. from all of them. Citi will even transfer the money direct into your checking account at any bank.
Meant #33 Lib ^^^^
#47 Hillary would have been the better choice in 2008.
Anyway you slice it up/down nobody wins Tard. I promised my wife back in 07 we be down much more than we are now in NJ. Little did I know the legislators would add a 4 months to foreclosure proceedings and them some pesky judge would halt them all together for almost a year, then the Fed gov would force more time into the equation. From what I can tell the delay tactics have added perhaps 4 years worth of shadow inventory to NJ that should be on the market by now. If I have to wait another 4 years I may as well buy the cheapest fixer upper I can fix and start hammering away since that is what most of my friends who were tired of waiting did.
Juice. That’s essentially what we did.
Got sick of waiting.
Did the Citi offer and the Discover offer.
We always keep the Chase Cards clear of balances as they seem to offer up better and better new card promos. With a large balance, they wouldn’t give it to you.
Have 250,000 British Airway credits from last year’s offer + a companion travel certificate good in first class. Just looking for the right free cruise offer for a deluxe first class vacation for just the taxes. That is, if Bally’s ever gets around to sending it to me! Always keep the Chase CC balances low. They’re good for about a grand per year.
toomuchchange I call him Il Duce because of the pretentious way he stares into space like he just said something of great importance from the lips or god while sh*itting a golden bannana.
where is everyone today buying ammo or skiing?
Speaking of credit cards I opted this year for the Chase Presidential mileage card with the higher fee since I did not fly enough last year to qualify elite. It’s cost $400 has nearly a 15% APR but is well worth it if you don’t carry a balance and have to check lots of bags, and charge everything for miles. First use will be to upgrade a California Flight to 1st class for next month, 1st and 2nd bag is free too so perhaps I will bring lots of gifts.
Tard/Juice;
Do you guys find that closing an account adversely impacts your scores? After 5+ years of being happy with whatever card I had the offers became too good to resist. So, I too have been riding the wave, $1,000 cash for opening a Chase CC, $200 elsewhere, $250 for checking and another for 80K Priority Club points (bal > 200K pts now).
Do you close your “offer accounts” after they’ve served their purpose, or do you keep them open? I’m concerned with the effects of that on my score, OTOH, $1,450 cash in hand + pts, all in three simple moves.
Zieba – When you lower the credit available it will affect your score. For example if you replace a 10k limit card with a 5k limit card etc you get dinged and how much of your available credit you are actually using too it is called the credit utilization rate. If you are a balance transfer surfer who continually transfers balances for the spiff , that would effect both available credit and the credit utilization rate. It is all in the math.
Always keep the Chase CC balances low. They’re good for about a grand per year.
Good to know, thanks. Another thing Chase was pretty good at that I hadn’t expected: They only gave me about $10K, I think, on the 0% card. I had another Chase card that was $12K, an Amazon Chase card that I only use for Amazon purchases, so it usually has no balance and is rarely used. I asked and they let me move $10K of the credit headroom off the Amazon card and onto the 0% card.
change (41)-
If it pleases you, I’d be happy to commence referring to Romney as Mr. Cult-Following Lunatic.
#53 Juice: that is my o concern with buying now, but whatever; the mtg debt is all I will have, and it will pre-pay it. But I too believe we are in a stall mode and there is alot more room to fall. That being said, I think some sellers realize that as well, and asking prices look alot better than they have. Of course they are still over priced.
Meat you have it wrong it is Mr Magic Underpants
#60 There: Back in the day when I worked at GS, there were alot of them employed there. Really nice people, but they have some dare I say strange beliefs. They are also big into converting;Jews and Catholics are worth more on their point scale.
#62 They do have sacred underwear worn both my men and women and worn every day; only white is allowed.
#62 They are also the wealthiest religious denomination in the U.S.
re: # 61- 3b – “asking prices look alot better” Actually it is the crap inventory that is scaring off my wife. We have looked at quite a few places far and wide that are commutable to NYC and she absolutely hates what she has seen so far. Four more more years of waiting however also means 140k in rent money I could be spending my weekends on fixing up a crap shack. I am torn like many here but getting nearer a point where I will in all eventuality save life changes circumstances swallow my misgivings.
#57 – Zieba -many cards question – I *think* the number of cards, within reason, doesn’t make as big a difference as staying well below your credit limit. I think I’m down to 4, my wife might have 3 or 4 additional accounts, so say 8 total and our credit scores stay high. We don’t carry any balances unless it’s a 0% deal. If you have any friends who are trying to raise their credit score, I know one really good trick and it works better for low credit scores than it does for high ones: Make multiple payments per month. If you’re going to pay $300 this month, it’s actually *much* better to make 3 $100 payments spaced a week apart. Most people pay online, so there’s no stamps/extra costs involved any more. Years ago when we rented and utilities were cheap we used to do the opposite with electric/gas/phone; We’d quadruple the monthly payment and send it in. For the next few months we would just open our bills, look at credit balance and happily throw everything except the bill itself into the garbage.
#66 Juice: I am seeing some of both, crap shacks with good bones, lots of cosmetics, but have family in the business, not a major issue. Saw one yesterday with the original late 50’s kitchen and baths in perfect condition. Anybody like yellow and red formica with country kitchen cabinets and brown and yellow bath tile!!!! I have also seen some nice ones in the land of Unicorns (not going to buy there, but still look), these are all low 400’s high 300’s asking, and would have sold 500 to 550 at peak.
I like you still have misgivings, but if I have to leave my current rental, I do not want to potentially have to move every couple of years.
so 3b let me get this straight, I know enough about the mormon religion to call Romney Mr Magic underpants then you feel the need to lecture me. Who cares their religion llike most was founded by a crazy person who got people to believe the sh*t he was peddling. Scientoligists tend to be on the richer side also should I not riducle them for playing with an electroshock machine divined from a lunatic Sci Fi writer who built the religion on a bet
If it is what need to get you through the dark void feel free to plead feelty to some invisible sky wizard. I’ll stick to the physical world respecting your right to practice your faith but maintaining mine to mock it.
#69 I am not lecturing you, just elaborating on your Mr. Underpants comment. I also pointed out that they are the wealthiest denomination I could tell you why, but I do not want to be accused of lecturing.
39.Libtard in Union says:
January 16, 2012 at 3:02 pm
I’ve met Gary. He is not Tim Tebow.
=====
Lib is telling the truth here. I can throw a football better than Tebow! ;)
re # 68 – 3b – amazes me how they can ask so much for such crap. Even my mother’s little cape in Bergen County has new Kitchen and Bathrooms.
Ok, I get it. So God told Romney to equity-strip all those companies, run them into the ground under the weight of their assumed debts, then call it free market capitalism.
All is illuminated.
Of course, Phony’s paid flack, Gingrich, feels it’s his obligation as an Amerikan to point out the fact that Romney is also a $2 trick.
#72 Juice: True both my parents and in laws take great pride in their houses, everthing up graded up to date move in etc. Amazing people lived in hosues for 40 or 50 years years and never touched a thing.
At least though the crap shack prices are alot lower than they were.
About LDS members being rich: They don’t spend money on alcohol and cigs. That’s got to add up over time.
Back to the credit card answers.
In my opinion, one should never close a credit card. The only time I ever do it, is if it goes from a free card to an annual fee card. Though, often one can call up the bank issuing the card and have it changed to a no fee card. The big problem with closing cards is that it shortens your credit history. I made the mistake of closing my first credit card which had a 15 year history and a $50K limit. It dinged my credit score by about 30 points. Of course, those dings only seem to last a year or so. Now Gator and I are both over 800 and it really makes the refis a lot easier. We never play the transfer balance game (red flag) although we have asked Chase to lower our credit availability on one card to make us eligible for another card from the same bank.
About making three payments in the same month on the same card. I wouldn’t think this would have any impact on a credit score. What seems to help though, is making a token purchase on each card about once per year to keep the credit card active in your credit profile. If you don’t, the credit card history gets stale, which is evident when you see a credit report.
Ultimately, the key to high credit scores, in my experience, is the length of time the card is open and active combined with the minimum number of credit checks. Also, paying off installment loans (car loans, mortgages, HELOCs, etc.) seems to work wonders. Even if it’s a refi that’s paying off the older loans. By the way, the ten-year is down to 1.85. Saw a 2.962 APR on a 15-year mortgage and a 3.569 APR on a 20-year. These are just unbelievable rates IMO. My multi-mortgage is a 20-year at 4.75 (keep in mind the average .75 hit for it being an investment property). If I can get about another .1875 off the 15 year, I can take another 4 years off the loan no cost to me, not to mention the tax advantages of paying more interest than principle. If I can nab it. I will have taken 16 years off of my two mortgages without it costing me one bloody cent. Whoever said to leverage it up here back in 2006 helped me save about $400,000 in payments easy, not to mention, the larger deductions. That’s l,ike another house in payments. It pays to keep your credit clean.
Captain Cheapo to the rescue.
41.toomuchchange says:
January 16, 2012 at 3:35 pm
24
“What would Dr. King think of Bojangles?
Not so much, methinks.”
Ditto your use of “Bojangles,” I would think.
If he asked why only the half black man gets the name calling when nobody Jewish, Catholic, Irish, Italian, etc., does, what would the answer?
Actually, the Presidents who were shot Like Lincoln & Kennedy held the records for name calling.
Eh…one correction. I think I have to pay $150 month more every month from my first refi of the multi from a 30 to a 25. Got about $25 per month of it back going to the 20-year. The 15-year is next (cross your fingers).
A medical condition just for John:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/01/12/born-with-two-vaginas-not-so-rare/
A medical condition just for John:
( replace ! with i to activate link)
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/01/12/born-with-two-vag!nas-not-so-rare/
snip
“I thought it was amazing and it’s definitely an ice-breaker at parties,” she said. “If women want to have a look, I’m quite happy to show them, it’s not something I’m embarrassed by.”
snip
As for the 3 credit card payments/month helping a credit score, here’s the background. There is a money show on talk radio here in Boston that plays on Sunday mornings. I’ve been listening to it for years but in all the years I’ve listened the only thing I learned that I didn’t already know was the 3 credit card payments/month trick. I would say they mention at least once a month for years now and they also don’t know why Fair Isaac’s formula gives a bump for this behavior, but they do. The reason I believe it works is because I’ve passed the tip on to several people at work with less than stellar credit and many of them came back and thanked me months later. I never really thought about it until now, but if your FICO score is heavily dependent on missed payments and late payments to the downside, maybe a good predictor to the upside is someone who continually makes 3 payments (assuming they all exceed the minimum payment). Based on that kind of history over a significant period of time you could safely say that that person could miss two thirds of their historic payments in a given month and still not be delinquent, no?
#33 Lib –
Thanks.
“where is everyone today buying ammo or skiing?”
Preparing quarterly taxes.
shore (80)-
I need a woman with a second v@gina even less than I need a second d!ck.
shore (83)-
Working, and dreaming of ammunition.
Here’s a very small amount of amusement I got out of one of my prior credit cards. Back story is I had a basic Sears card. Then they sent me a Sears MasterCard to replace it (regular credit card, fine I’ll take it). Then, I think, Sears sold their whole CC biz to Citibank. It was obvious that Citi’s tactics were to fleece their new customers. Date due dates started jumping around like Mexican bean. You couldn’t pay online without having it credited to the next business day, but your due date was Thanksgiving, or frequent Sundays in holiday weekends, etc. A couple times I had to drive to Sears to pay at one of their registers or had to fight with their customer service to get a late fee reversed when the due date was 20 days past the previous due date. I never got screwed, but the scam was so obvious. I decided I was going to put one $0.99 McD double cheeseburger on that card every month just to make them mail me a statement every month. Then I remembered their site wouldn’t take anything lower than a $10 payment and they wouldn’t take an overpayment online. I think I put some more purchases on the card to make it total $14 or so, but some of those purchases were in the next statement cycle. No matter to me, I paid $10 or so to pay off my $7 last statement on time and my $3.00 ahead of time for the current statement which would leave me with a $1 balance in the current statement, but I had already paid $3.00 of the $4.00 balance for that period so they couldn’t charge me the minimum $0.50 finance charge, IIRC. They spent the postage to mail me the next statement, but they wrote off the $1.00 balance as a misc adjustment and the statement said I owed nothing. Over time I upped it by a dollar a month to eventually figure out that you could basically spend $14.99 a month and Citi would write off $3.99 every month so long as you already paid $1 of it before the previous statement period had ended. I’m not sure, but I think the pattern was basically buy something for $15 in the last 5 days of the statement cycle and pay $11 of it two days later and get $4 for free. I think I did that for over 2 years taking 4 dollars per month from them, and giggled about at least once a month.
Grim, I have a report which may be of interest. Email to discuss.
One more reason to own a Nompound:
http://www.latimes.com/health/boostershots/la-heb-tb-totally-drug-resistant-india-20120116,0,4582749.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MostEmailed+%28L.A.+Times+-+Most+E-mailed+Stories%29
At least a dozen people in India are infected with a type of tuberculosis that is resistant to all antibiotics used to treat the disease.
In December, the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases published an online report that documented four of the cases. This weekend, news outlets in India reported that there were actually at least 12 people with the drug-resistant lung disease.
Officials fear that what they’ve seen so far is just the beginning, and that many more cases are lurking undetected.
“It’s estimated that on average, a tuberculosis patient infects 10 to 20 contacts in a year, and there’s no reason to suspect that this strain is any less transmissible,” study co-author Zarir Udwadia of the Hinduja National Hospital and Medical Research Centre in Mumbai told New Scientist. “Short of quarantining them in hospitals with isolation facilities till they become non-infectious – which is not practical or possible – there is nothing else one can do to prevent transmission.”
Patients with TB must take antibiotics for a long time to cure the disease. Many don’t get the right medications, or don’t take their medications properly, which allows the evolution of drug-resistant strains.
snip
This just seems like a Lady Gaga song…. Baby I Was Born This Way….
Shore Guy says:
January 16, 2012 at 6:05 pm
A medical condition just for John:
( replace ! with i to activate link)
snip
“I thought it was amazing and it’s definitely an ice-breaker at parties,” she said. “If women want to have a look, I’m quite happy to show them, it’s not something I’m embarrassed by.”
Speaking of being born….next time take the express….
Woman gives birth on PATH train
By REBECCA ROSENBERG and ADAM BRODSKY
Last Updated: 6:23 PM, January 16, 2012
Posted: 6:23 PM, January 16, 2012
More Print Next stop, maternity ward.
A woman went into labor on a PATH train this morning and gave birth before it pulled into the station, witnesses said.
The woman and her husband boarded the Manhattan-bound train shortly after 9:30 a.m. at the Journal Square station in Jersey City.
Before the train made its second stop at the Newport station, the woman went into labor.
“She was not in labor long,” said Port Authority spokesman Ron Marsico.
Moments later, the train’s conductor made an announcement that the woman had given birth, and that the train would be skipping stops to 33rd Street in Manhattan.
A woman went into labor on a PATH train this morning and gave birth before it pulled into the station.“God bless the little one,” the conductor said.
Cops who responded at 33rd Street said the father calmly delivered the boy on the floor of the car surrounded by stunned passengers.
The baby was in his dad’s arms when cops arrived.
One train rider sacrificed his coat to cover the woman up.
Officials said the 31-year-old new mom and her husband are from Harrison, NJ.
The woman and the baby boy were rushed to St. Lukes Roosevelt hospital, where they were doing well, officials said.
The worst thing for that woman who gave birth on the train is that she then had to buy another ticket or have her baby fined for riding without a ticket.
I think that what is interesting is that the house has been exposed for everything that it is, and everything that it is not. What I really find to be the case right now is that “if” you lose the job and if you need to bail, renting can be seen as a wonderful opportunity to “find” the right place for your kid. I am not at all happy with her prospects in my little town and think that really if I ever bail — what is the difference between a short sale and a simple jingle mail? Either way you are toast credit-wise. The big questions come from how aggressively can they pursue the heloc piece provided they are a big bank. But otherwise to jettison is prudent if the wheels come off. And my thought is that you probably would enjoy better cashflow once taxes and maintenance are out of the picture.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – A record 84 percent of Americans say they disapprove of the way the Congress is doing its job compared with just 13 percent who approve of how things are going, according to a Washington Post/ABC News public opinion poll published on Monday.
The disapproval rating for Congress inched up two percentage points since October and reflects a year of lows for Congress that ended in a battle over a temporary extension of the payroll tax cuts for 160 million Americans
No better location than waterfront, err, maybe not:
http://www.APP.com/article/20120116/NJNEWS/301180002?fb_ref=artrectop&fb_source=home_multiline
clot [84] – I need a woman with a second v@gina even less than I need a second d!ck.
puts a new spin on double date, though.
Two twats is nice. But if she has twins do they come out same hole? Does she get charged twice at OBJYN? Also nice no more sloppy seconds.
Now for more important stuff like money.
Today is estimated tax day. If you overpay your 2011 taxes you can use your refund to buy more Ibonds!! Yea.
Also muni bonds yields at a 47 year low today!!!! Yea, generally that means hold pat or sell, buying into a 47 year low in yields is usually not going to end well.
Long dated muni paper with coupons less than 5%, really junky low rated munis, Guam and Virgin Island illuiquid paper sell sell sell today.
On top of extremely light issuance this week we have all the 1/15 coupon payments that need to be reinvested and anyone chasing yield who added to muni bond fund gets invested this week. Huge inflows last few days.
Hate to say took longer than expected but muni bonds, CDs, Treasuries, Savings Bonds, money markes, short term investment grade bonds are all at nearly zero. Whats left? Junk bonds, dividend stocks and housing. We are at risk on trades!!
The Fed started this in 2008 and took to 2012 to flush out the savers.
Other thing of interest I noted was brokers and bankers recommend bond ladders for the most risk adverse folks who need yield. Normal ladders are buy a ten year treasury every January or buy a five year CD every January and let it ride. Theory is you always have bonds maturing from 1-5 or 1-10.
Article stated this has worked great for 30 years to protect you from risk of rolling one year cds and have sticker shock as a result of years like 1993, 2003-2003 and 2009-2012. However, we never had such a prolonged low interest rate environment.
The ten year ladder crowd just has January 2002 bonds roll over. Now that have 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008,2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012. Ouch Only 2006, 2007, 2008 had decent coupons, 70% of bonds are paying near zero. The five year CD crowd ladder has it worse. They just had 2007 CDs roll over so they are at 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012. 80% of CDs are at near zero.
The bond laddering crowd is going to have to go risk on, or eat dog food. They are now experiencing in 2012 what the money market, savings account, one year CD crowd got in 2009.
Given the tenor of this thread, perhaps its time to move to another off topic subject:
It’s Gator’s Birthday! Lets all wish her a happy one by Tebowing.
[88] shore,
Actually, its one of the original reasons for owning a Nompound.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204468004577165163238970438.html?mod=ITP_newyork_2
Housing in Recovery ? Good luck ,
In the spirit of this optomistic thread I would like to congratulate Gator on being one year closer to death.
Comrade Nom Deplume says:
January 17, 2012 at 9:03 am
Given the tenor of this thread, perhaps its time to move to another off topic subject:
It’s Gator’s Birthday! Lets all wish her a happy one by Tebowing.
re 80 –
4 hole gal? What will they think of next?
Here’s a photoshoot that will warm Meat’s heart, and annoy Fabius.
(no Fabius, it doesn’t involve your wife)
http://www.toonarmynyc.com/photo.htm
freedy [100],
And it’ll be a cold day in he11 before any of the house cheerleaders mentions the phrase, “Property Taxes.”
Yes, the mortgage will be $2000 per month but…. um…. with the uh… property taxes, we’re talking $2800 per month. Tell me how affordable that house is now.
Meat, speaking of ammo, I came across this while reading the water story
http://www.independenceusa.com/
Didn’t Discovery or Learning Channel do a two episode spot on this guy? I seem to remember a show like this.
BTW, it took me a minute to figure out, but it is now being carried by Glenn Beck, so if that isn’t safe for your work, don’t link.
3b #68: Got a link? Pam Kueber of Retro Renovations would I’m sure love to post pix of such a perfect midcentury kitchen.
[103] gary,
When property taxes start to reach parity with mortgage and that starts to register with the masses, watch for the NJ RE death spiral.
I want to sell. I like my house, it is in a great neighborhood, but I know it won’t get better unless the Brig holds the line on taxes. If they can, it will help support prices as folks won’t live in Essex when the brig is a few miles away and half the cost, taxwise. But that is a lot of faith in government, and no one should put faith in government.
[104] redux
I was right. It was the same guy.
http://blogs.mcall.com/tvwatchers/2010/11/tv-watchers-review-apocalypse-pa-keep-the-inventions-lose-the-indoctrination.html
Nom [107],
When property taxes start to reach parity with mortgage and that starts to register with the masses, watch for the NJ RE death spiral.
Exactly! Are people really this f*cking stupid? Sell? Sell to whom? How can a lender even go back to the standard model for lending practices? It doesn’t apply here! If you live in 45 other states, taxes are almost a moot point. Here, this is the FIRST thing that should be considered. We’re at half-time, folks!
Early predictions:
Giants – 24
Niners – 20
Pats – 27
Ravens – 23
Happy B-day Gator hope Captain Cheapo has accrued enough points to get you something nice.
#103 gary: As far as the article, they lost me on New Rochelle and good schools. New Roc is a rapidly declining city with all of the urban ills of a big city, and outrageous property taxes.
And of course the realtor being quoted in the article advising buyers not to even think of bidding 50 cents on the dollar as those days are over. Over!! One could reasonably argue they are just starting in this area,
We did do breakfast with a groupon at a local waffle joint. Does that count?
Gator’s getting the iPad 3 in March. I told her to hold off on the ipad 1 since Apple always does quick upgrades to first generation products and has a knack for screwing early adopters. When the iPad 2 came out, her company gave her an iPad 1, but she is not allowed to jailbreak it and is limited in the apps she is allowed to buy for it as it must pass IT muster. The iPad three will be jailbroken with glee.
And you wonder why Apple is virtually printing money?
#105 Jill: Link is below.
http://www.njmls.com/listings/index.cfm?action=dsp.info&mlsnum=1200913&dayssince=&countysearch=false
And me? I’ve got an iPod 4th gen jailbroken to IOS 5.01 with wifi and a cell phone (non-smart) that would make most tweeners jealous.
http://www.letsgomobile.org/images/news/samsung/samsung-intensity-2.jpg
Captain Cheapo is all about the text messaging yo.
3b: That range is fantastic, only to be outdone by the oven and dishwasher.
Instead of whispers of losing the mortgage interest deduction, what if the govt goes the other way and changes it to a full on tax credit? Sure the govt loses a quadzillion dollars in revenue, but the VPP’s are all in good tune and that would surely not only pump up the housing market again, everyone would mortgage to the hilt and actually report enough income to use the tax credit against.
VPP = Virtual Printing Press
Yeah, I got my kid an ipad 2 for Christmas. Now the notebook pretty much sits neglected in a corner unless it’s reports and document editing. Otherwise, watching TV, emailing, web surfing all take place on the iPad. My wife now wants one after dissing it as an expensive toy. So, I’ll be on the preorder watch for iPad 3 in March.
“Gator’s getting the iPad 3 in March. I told her to hold off on the ipad 1 since Apple always does quick upgrades to first generation products and has a knack for screwing early adopters. When the iPad 2 came out, her company gave her an iPad 1, but she is not allowed to jailbreak it and is limited in the apps she is allowed to buy for it as it must pass IT muster. The iPad three will be jailbroken with glee.
And you wonder why Apple is virtually printing money?”
Lib you are truly a mensch. I’m turning anti-apple though now that my second gen I pod is finally dying. got the wife a toshiba thrive because of some of the features an Ipad does not have. I’m looking for something to replace my Ipod probably be another tablet but not sure which
Mensch? Gator should be happy that I didn’t her the Etch-a-Sketch I was planning to. No batteries, no monthly fees and those things are truly indestructible.
113 – 3b
Don’t feel bad. Compared to my first floor bath, the one in the pics looks updated. I didn’t really understand what “art deco” meant until I saw it. Turquoise and Burgundy subway tile. Blech…
When I get around to it, I’m going to either gut it down to the studs or reglaze it.
Could be worse I guess. Some of my neighbors have pink bathrooms.
Do not see Giants winning this week. Harbaugh has those guys so jacked up to play for him they’d take the field with both hands tied behind their backs and no helmets. On paper the Giants may be better but the 49ers are playing like a college team with a lot of emotion. I say 49ers 24 Giants 20.
Electronic devices have turned our children into f*cking zombies. Do any of them have any desire to craft something with their hands or pick up an acoustic instrument and figure out a chord?
Gary,
You sound like Newt Gingrich.
“I think the fact is if you look at the amount of violence in games that young people play, at 7, 8, 10, 12, 15 years of age, if you look at the de-humanization, if you look at the fact that we refuse to say that we are endowed by a creator, that our rights come from God, that if you kill somebody you’re committing an act of Evil.”
Lib if the Stay Puft congressman said that then why is so quick to want to go and slay more muslim dragons
Newt should read some Ghandi “I like your Christ, I do not like you Christians. You Christians are so unlike your Christ”
Brian #120: Not everyone agrees with you.
3b #113: Those cabinets are just like mine — stick-built 1950’s solid pine, impossible to remove without incredible damage to the walls. That kitchen looks just like the Drapers’ kitchen in Mad Men, except the one on the show has 2 anachronisms: 1) refrigerator magnets weren’t invented until 1970; and 2) Avocado green ovens weren’t around until the LATE ’60’s.
$399K for a 3 bedroom split in this market in that condition is insane.
BTW you guys laughed when I greived my taxes on basis of being next to commercial businesses. The form said a house located close to commerical business is a cuase for lower taxes. Well just did a search of my block on yellow pagers and found several home business, then went to mantra found their incorporations, then digital camera in hand caught images of customers coming and going to homes, got ads off internet and phone book featuring their address and shots of commerical vehicles in driveway.
Netted me the lowest taxes within two blocks. Now my problem is how do I greive this year, I need a new strategy. My stupid neighbor just sold his house for 80K more than my assessed value and house across the stret just sold for 90K more than my assessed value. The assessor is getting tricky. For instance my winter only view of smoke stacks taken on my 10x zoom camera to make then appear closer did not work at all. And apparantly my shot of my station car beater in my driveway did not help.
Flippers are now in my neighborhood renovating houses then selling at 100K over the previous value. They are also giving me trouble. The assessor is smart enough not to let me use same strategy two years in a row. They claim it is baked into the price.
I got to get some of those clothes lines and put my neighbors train car on blocks in my driveway and get a shot. Maybe some passed out hobos on front lawn. Wonder if I could rent this stuff. You would think there could be a business taking tax assessment pictures to make your house look like a slum.
125 – Jill
Cool site. I wonder if they have one for turquose.
You should see my kitchen. I hate it. Unfortunately, it was “upgraded” in the 1970’s. I almost wish they had left the old stuff but, I imagine it was in rough shape. One of the previous owners had 5 kids! I often wonder how he did it. The house only had 2 bedrooms at the time!
Jill the internet the only place in the world where people of off tastes find each other and create a business out of it.
I do not miss my 50’s vintage pink bathroom from our old apartment
“figure out a chord.”
Dude. Is there like an app for that?
124 – christian compassion lives
http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/2012/01/that-christian-compassion/
129 – Pain
It sounds stupid but I understand it. For me, it reminds me of my childhood playing at my grandparents house in Cliffside Park. They had a clawfoot tub in the bathroom with the small black and white floor tiles. Walls were all covered in black and white tiles too. We used to dig through the garage and find all of my Father’s and aunt’s and uncle’s toys and play with them all summer and every holiday. I remember resurecting an old scooter my father played with when he was a kid.
If everything is functional and cosmetically looks okay, I sort of get the same appreciation you feel when you look at a classic car or motorcycle.
My grandmother used to cook using baconfat in her old kitchen too. She used to save the stuff in a cofee can in the refrigerator. The food was delicious.
Crazy thing was there were seven kids plus my great grandmother living there and only one bathroom. I guess that was normal then.
Remind me again why a flat tax is a bad thing?
http://m.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/01/the-real-scandal-in-private-equity-its-the-taxes/251463/
129 – Pain
It sounds stupid but I understand it. For me, it reminds me of my childhood playing at my grandparents house in Cliffside Park. They had a clawfoot tub in the bathroom with the small older style floor tiles. Walls were all covered in tiles too. We used to dig through the garage and find all of my Father’s and aunt’s and uncle’s toys and play with them all summer and every holiday. I remember resurecting an old scooter my father played with when he was a kid.
If everything is functional and cosmetically looks okay, I sort of get the same appreciation you feel when you look at a classic car or motorcycle.
My grandmother used to cook using baconfat in her old kitchen too. She used to save the stuff in a cofee can in the refrigerator. The food was delicious.
Crazy thing was there were seven kids plus my great grandmother living there and only one bathroom. I guess that was normal then.
JJ,
Staging real estate for lower assessment rather than for selling. Absolutely brilliant.
I have never updated a bathroom in my house. It is like a history lesson taking a dump at my house.
Den has a 1955 Baby Blue/Powder Blue Bathroom, then I have a 1970s beige/brown bathroom, chocalate brown tiles are great around the toliet. Then I have an early 1990s black/white flock of seagulls era bathroom, prior owner who he and his ex wife were overweight like to make love in shower and put a skylight in. Damm thing is huge, so big me, wife and realtor were standing in it while she was showing it to me.
Bathrooms are wastes of money. Next thing you guys are going to tell me my 1955 furnance is no good.
Painhrtz – I ain’t dead yet says:
January 17, 2012 at 11:53 am
Jill the internet the only place in the world where people of off tastes find each other and create a business out of it.
I do not miss my 50′s vintage pink bathroom from our old apartment
I think we should go into business. I am very good at winning tax grievances. Also we should do a service where non-home owning retired, disabled, blind veterns with low incomes can be put on title for a fee so we get all the property tax breaks.
Libtard in Union says:
January 17, 2012 at 12:26 pm
JJ,
Staging real estate for lower assessment rather than for selling. Absolutely brilliant.
136 – jj
“Bathrooms are wastes of money. Next thing you guys are going to tell me my 1955 furnance is no good. ”
After much of my neighborhood lost power for an extended period after the october snowstorm, I wish I had an old school furnace with a pilot light. Then we’d at least have heat when the power went out.
JJ,
I had this concept where each year, right around assessment time, all of the homeowners on the block pool their money together and buy one of the houses at 1/2 price. Then the former owners buy the house back in a private sale from the neighborhood group. The tax records don’t reflect private sales, so we can all appeal our taxes down based on the 1/2 price sale. This should more than easily cover the property transfer taxes and if the volunteer seller is 62 or disabled, the taxes will be halved.
Brian,
I rigged our furnace off of the generator to keep the flu open and to bypass the safeties. I also plugged in the CO alarm just in case. Of course, this was after the 3rd day of waking up in a bedroom that was 49 degrees.
140 – Libtard
I don’t have a generator but I have an inverter I can hook to my truck. It’s still a pain though. I would have to pigtail a plug into the furnace or put in a bypass switch if I wanted it to work.
Yup.
#130 Shore
Its not an app, it’s, Guitar Hero!
But for some who want that real experience, check out http://www.openchord.org
Seif [131];
It takes a particularly potent brand of STOOPID™ to poke someone in the eye and then complain about a negative reaction. I’d love to see that teenager’s diary from last year going on about how she wishes she wan’t ignored by her friends. Problem solved, honey.
Best heat is gas steam heat with a standing pilot. The gas provides a milivolt to the thermostat. Because it’s steam versus hot water, there is no electric recirculating pump. So power failure doesn’t effect your heat. Steam heat also is moist heat eliminating the dryness issue. Unfortunately under government rules the new systems use an electric ignitor, unless you change it yourself. The government prefers you freeze to save the cost of a gas pilot light.
My IB is laying off 20% of Finance back office globally tomorrow. Down to the bone now. Part of the overall strategy of moving functions to..wait for it.. India. Gee my entire Americas team is Indian too. Nothing personal but Vishnu’s many arms are going to come in handy. Ready or not businesses can’t wait to dump US jobs. Yep I’ll be buying a house soon.
145 – confused
I had a new hot water heater installed in 2004. It has a pilot light. What’s the sense in the government only regulating pilot light use in a furnace?
Bystander –
We passed a new milestone at my employer…Hyderabad India now has the most people of any of our offices in the world (and were a US based company).
I will say though that managers are tiring of having to wake up in the middle of the night to meet with their employees in India. Lately, the work they give them is what nobody else wants.
145.Brian says:
January 17, 2012 at 2:18 pm
145 – confused
I had a new hot water heater installed in 2004. It has a pilot light. What’s the sense in the government only regulating pilot light use in a furnace?
When did the government ever make sense. My 2010 Kenmore Hotwater heater also has a pilot, but try and buy a heating unit with one. My old house in New Providence had gas steam with a pilot, which I replaced in 1978 from oil steam with pilot. It was great. I even changed all the radiators to cast iron baseboard or cast iron recessed. Never worried about power failures.
Wow we officially hit a bull market in stocks today!!! That coupled with a bull market in munis and treasuries and cheap home prices means fence sitters can buy BK/Short Sales homes for cash. Bad news for fence sitters in cash.
CNBC’s pick for the best NFL cheerleading squad???
It isn’t the Jets. . .
Giants? Fugettaboutit, didn’t even make the list . . .
Wait for it . . .
http://www.cnbc.com/id/45990245?slide=11
The New England Patriots!!!! Woohoo!
(145)
It’s the amount of legacy gas hot water heater setups that still don’t use electricals. The cost to wire for electric ignitions would be prohibitive for many and create possible backlash by consumers.
And who has the first joke? gary? How about you?
Happy Birthday Gator!
Hope you Stu and L’il Gator have a blast!
sl
Nom,
No jokes or arguments needed for that picture! :) I’m in agreement!!
The jets actually don’t have cheerleaders, they are a dance squad. The flight crew are all college educated gals.
Romney pegs
his tax rate
at about 15%
First Read: GOP presidential candidate begins to reveal income details; he gets most of his income from investments, which are taxed at a lower rate than regular salaries.
as they say down the jersey shore “yeah I’d smush that”
Re: furnace power….
This guy powered his natural gas forced air furnace with a 9volt battery. it can’t power the fan but, theoretically, you could put a few battery powered fans near the vents to pull the heat upstairs (if your furnace is in the basement).
http://www.williamson-labs.com/gas-heat-no-E.htm
[119] “No batteries, no monthly fees and those things are truly indestructible.”
Maybe not quite as solid as an etch-a-sketch, but my better half’s iPod Touch 4G went through the washing machine (hot water!) a few weeks ago, and after letting it dry out for a couple of weeks, still works good as new.
The problem with dating a Patriot Cheerleader is that she’s most likely from New England.
Where Investor Money Is Going: ‘Under the Mattress’
CNBC – 41 minutes ago
……
Investors have been running from stocks and even bonds as fast as their feet can take them, putting their cash instead in accounts that earn practically nothing but provide shelter from turbulent times.
Over the first 11 months of 2011, plain-vanilla savings and checking accounts attracted eight times the money as stock and bond mutual and exchange-traded funds, according to data from market research firm TrimTabs.
The pace accelerated to nearly 13 times from September to November, the most recent month for which data is available.
After contending with factors as ominous as the European debt crisis and as frustrating as Washington gridlock, investors have decided that the world looks best from the sidelines, despite historic efforts from the Federal Reserve to entice risk-taking.
“The real money these days is going straight under the mattress,” said TrimTabs CEO Charles Biderman. “The Fed is doing almost everything in its power to entice investors to speculate in overpriced asset markets. Yet investors – particularly on the retail side – are mostly refusing to take the bait.”
From January to November, $889 billion poured into savings and checking, while stock and bond funds drew just $109 billion. More money went into bank accounts even at times when the market rallied.
Most recently, investors took $9.35 billion out of equity funds – including more than $7 billion of U.S.-based funds – for the week ended Jan. 4. Stock-based funds haven’t had a winning month since April of 2011, and cash in mutual funds is just over $2.7 trillion, the highest level since June 22, according to the Investment Company Institute, which tracks fund flows for the government.
Biderman attributes the reluctance of retail investors to commit money to three factors: 1) an increase in baby-boomer retirees who are becoming more risk-averse in their later years; 2) an economy getting better but still struggling, and 3) worries that the Fed is running out of ammunition to stimulate the economy.
“Investors are very skittish. The last decade has really eroded American optimism,” said David Kelly, chief market strategist at JPMorgan Funds. “The problem is they look at the day-to-day volatility and they just can’t take it.”
Kelly believes that “economic momentum” – in better unemployment numbers, housing improvement and manufacturing gains – ought to be pushing investors away from zero-earning instruments and toward risk.
But that hasn’t been the way it’s worked so far, with gains continuing to come on lighter trading days and losses on higher volume.
“Given all this, you need a lot of bad news to dig deeper than this, given current valuations,” Kelly said.
To be sure, there are signs that investors are coming around.
Sentiment surveys are running at strongly bullish levels, indicating both the possibility that the market is a bit overbought and the idea that those who feel the market will be higher in six months are in the majority. The American Association for Individual Investors is running at 49 percent bulls against just 17 percent bears.
The most recent of the closely watched fund managers surveys from Bank of America Merrill Lynch showed bullish sentiment as well, with cash levels at their lowest point since July. Overweight ratings on U.S. stocks are at a net 28 percent, up from 23 percent in December.
Mary Ann Bartels, technical research analyst at BofAML, had been forecasting the possibility of the Standard & Poor’s 500 (INDEX: ^GSPC – News) testing as low as 935 in the coming weeks. But Bartels said Monday that positive market signs have pushed her to take that possibility off the table, though she still sees problems ahead.
“The S&P 500 is grinding higher but volume and breadth are still not confirming the rally,” Bartels said in a note to clients. “We expect the market to remain range-bound.”
Whether that will be enough for nervous investors is another story.
After all, the fears that have accompanied the pullback into the safety of checking and savings accounts aren’t going away anytime soon. So without a positive spark, it will take some convincing to get investors to commit their money again.
As things stand, the market in fact could end the year lower, said John Higgins, senior markets economist at Capital Economics. Higgins sees the S&P 500 falling to 1,150, even if the Fed embarks on a third round of quantitative easing .
“The fillip provided by past episodes of QE was partly linked to misplaced expectations that the policy would boost the economy,” Higgins said. “We think there would be greater skepticism the third time round.”
The world has finally caught up to me it seems?
WSJ Editorial
REVIEW & OUTLOOK
JANUARY 18, 2012
Obama Discovers Natural Gas
Another election-year transformation..
A re-election campaign is a terrible thing to waste, and this year’s race is already producing miraculous changes at the Obama White House: The latest example of a bear walking on its hind legs is the President’s new embrace of . . . natural gas from shale.
Last week the White House issued its latest report on jobs and it includes a section on “America’s Natural Resource Boom.” The report avers that a few years ago there were widespread “fears of a looming natural gas shortage,” but that “the discovery of new natural gas reserves, such as the Marcellus Shale, and the development of hydraulic fracturing techniques to extract natural gas from these reserves has led to rapidly growing domestic production and relatively low domestic prices for households and downstream industrial users.”
Please pass the smelling salts to Interior Secretary Ken Salazar and Lisa Jackson at the Environmental Protection Agency.
To the best of our knowledge, this is the first time the White House has favorably mentioned the Marcellus Shale, the natural gas reservoir below Pennsylvania, West Virginia and other Northeastern states. And now he’s taking credit for this soaring production.
As the White House report puts it: “Of the major fossil fuels, natural gas is the cleanest and least carbon‐intensive for electric power generation. By keeping domestic energy costs relatively low, this resource also supports energy intensive manufacturing in the United States. In fact, companies like Dow Chemical and Westlake Chemical have announced intentions to make major investments in new facilities over the next several years.”
And that’s not all: “In addition, firms that provide equipment for shale gas production have announced major investments in the U.S., including Vallourec’s $650 million plant for steel pipes in Ohio. An abundant local supply will translate into relatively low costs for the industries that use natural gas as an input. Expansion in these industries, including industrial chemicals and fertilizers, will boost investment and exports in the coming years, generating new jobs.”
We checked to see if someone slipped a press release from the Natural Gas Council into the White House report by mistake, but apparently not.
The report does add the obligatory disclaimer about hydraulic fracturing that “appropriate care must to be taken to ensure that America’s natural resources are extracted in a safe and environmentally responsible manner” with safeguards “to protect public health and safety.” But no one disagrees with that.
The catch is that this endorsement runs against every energy policy pursued by the Obama Administration for three years. The Institute for Energy Research reports that royalties from oil and gas drilling have fallen more than 90% since 2008 because of Interior Department permitting delays and rejections.
The EPA recently issued a flawed report on groundwater contamination that could shut down the fracking process the President is now touting as a jobs producer. EPA’s political goal is to grab power to supercede state drilling regulation. The industry regards new EPA authority as a real threat to its future.
Each year Mr. Obama has also supported a $40 billion tax hike on the oil and gas industry because, as he put it in 2009, the tax code “encourages overproduction of oil and gas” and “is detrimental to long-term energy security.” Even the Securities and Exchange Commission has imposed extensive new reporting requirements on oil and gas fracking companies.
It’s certainly smart politics for Mr. Obama to distance himself from the anti-fossil fuels obsessives, and no doubt his political advisers are hoping it helps this fall in the likes of Ohio and Pennsylvania. On the other hand, this could be a one-year wonder, and if he wins Mr. Obama might revert to form in 2013. A good test of his sincerity would be to replace Ms. Jackson and Mr. Salazar.
How Much Is A Homemaker Worth?
By Porcshe Moran | Investopedia – Mon, Jan 16, 2012 1:23 PM EST
The life of a homemaker is one that includes an endless amount of demands and to-dos. Depending on the size of the home and family, the position of homemaker can go well beyond the usual nine to five. We examined some of the tasks that a homemaker might do to find out how much his or her services would net as individual professional careers. We only take into consideration tasks which have monetary values and use the lowest value for each calculation.
Private Chef
Meal preparation is one of the major tasks of most homemakers. From breakfast to dinner, there is plenty of meal planning and cooking to be done. The American Personal Chef Association reports that its personal chefs make $200 to $500 a day. Grocery shopping is another chore that needs to be factored in. A homemaker must drive to the supermarket, purchase the food and deliver it to the home. Grocery delivery services charge a delivery fee of $5 to $10.
Total cost for services: $1,005 per five day work week x 52 weeks = $52,260 per year.
House Cleaner
A clean and tidy home is the foundation of an efficient household. Typical cleaning duties include vacuuming, dusting, sweeping, scrubbing sinks as well as loading the dishwasher and making beds. Professional maids or house cleaning service providers will charge by the hour, number of rooms or square footage of the home. For example, bi-weekly cleaning of a 900-square-foot, two-bedroom apartment with five rooms, costs $59-$124 . A 1,300 square-foot, single-story home with seven rooms runs $79-$150 . A 2,200 two-story, three-bedroom home with nine rooms averages $104-$180 . Additional tasks such as oven or refrigerator cleaning and dusting mini blinds can run an extra $20-$25.
Total cost for services: $118 per week X 52 Weeks = $6,136 per year.
Child Care
Homemakers provide full-time, live-in child care. This type of service from a professional provider would usually come with a host of perks including health insurance, paid vacation and sick days, federal holidays off, dental and vision coverage, and bonuses. The International Nanny Association’s 2011 survey found that nannies make $600 to $950 per week in gross wages, on average.
Total cost for services: $600 a week plus perks/benefits x 52 Weeks = $31,200 per year.
Driver
A private car service might seem like a high-end luxury to most, but the beneficiaries of a homemaker get this service on a daily basis. Companies like Red Cap, which provides personal drivers that use the client’s own car as the means of transportation, offer a glimpse into the cost of this homemaker task. An elite membership which includes 365 days of unlimited, round-trip service is $1,000 a year plus 33 cents – $2.03 per minute.
Total cost for services: $1,000 per year + [(estimated miles driven 8000 miles / 50 MPH) x 60 min/hr x $0.33 per minute] = $4,168 total per year.
Laundry Service
Clean clothes come at a cost when you have to pay for the service that most homemakers do for free. Professional laundry services charge by the pound. For instance, Susie’s Suds Home Laundry Service, Inc. in Texas charges 90 cents to $1.00 a pound to wash, dry, fold, hang and steam your clothes. Items that take longer to dry such as comforters, blankets, rugs and winter clothes are assessed at a price of $12-$15 each.
Total cost for services: $0.90 per pound x 4 pounds of clothes per day x 5 days per weeks x 52 weeks = $936 total per year.
Lawn Maintenance
Basic maintenance of the exterior property is a less common, but possible duty of a homemaker. This could include things such as mowing, debris removal, edging and trimming the lawn. These services cost about $30 a week on average.
Total cost for services: $30 per week x 52 weeks = $1,560 total per year.
The Bottom Line
Total for a year of all services is: $52,260 + $6,137 + $31,200 + $4,168 + $936 + $1,560 = $96,261 per year.
The daily work of a homemaker can sometimes be taken for granted by his or her family members. However, these services could earn a homemaker a considerable wage if he or she took those skills to the marketplace. Homemakers in general contribute a lot more to the home in addition to these tasks, and no amount of money can fill those needs.
When my son complained one day about the cost of childcare, I asked him “did you really think keeping your mother at home for 16 years was Free”?
RE: How Much Is A Homemaker Worth?
I HATE HATE HATE these stupid things. I am 30, live alone, and yet somehow manage to cook and clean for myself in my 1250sqft apt. I have never starved, lived in squalor, or been late to an appointment or party due to not having a dedicated driver. I show up with clean and ironed clothes, as I do laundry a couple times a week, amazingly all by myself.
oh, and I manage to work fulltime.
the best part about this stupid thing is the following. If a homemaker were to pick one career from the above list, the most they would make is 52k being the chef. Would you EVER expect your private chef to also do your laundry and then drive you somewhere and mow your lawn! You can get a live-in nanny to watch 2 kids for under 50k a year, who will do almost all of the above.
you left hooker off the home maker list.
I remember a neighbor back in the 70’s in New Providence, whose 16 year old daughter asked her for a ride to Summit to do some shopping. She told her she was busy & to ride her bike. An hour later she got the call that a bus had hit her daughter and she was gone. Seems like Mrs Confused & I spent a lot of years with protecting our off spring as the main priority, not something we felt could be outsourced, at any price.
JJ [164];
So what’s the going rate?
#126 Jill: 399k is insane. I am going to watch it and see what happens.If they lower it to around 359k, I will throw a bid in . I would be willing to pay no more than 325K. Nice block, and walkable to train; bit of a walk, but I like to walk.
Apparantly with a wife it is diamond earings and fancy vacations in order to get some regularly, I think the hooker would be cheaper.
Anon E. Moose says:
January 17, 2012 at 4:50 pm
JJ [164];
So what’s the going rate?
confused [160]
I guess when the American companies start putting out the press-releases like this, there will be a lot of confidence among the retail investors…
January 11, 2012
Symrise secures competitive position of German sites through 2020
• Employment guarantee for employees in Germany
• Increase in vocational training and employee qualification levels
• Total investment of € 220 million in expansion and modernization
• Cost benefits of more than € 80 million up to 2020
——————————————————————————–
The Executive Board of Symrise AG and the IG BCE (Mining, Chemical and Energy Industrial Union) further developed their collective agreements on January 11, 2012, with the aim of strengthening the Company’s German sites and ensuring qualified personnel in the long term. Symrise is therefore extending its employment guarantee for its German sites from the previous date of 2016 to the end of 2020. In return, the staff will do without some salary increases in the future. In addition, the 40-hour week has been fixed until 2020. The agreement also provides for some major additional investment in the German sites. Furthermore, the Group is reacting to demographic change by creating additional apprenticeships as well as staff enhancement and training measures.
The collective agreement signed on January 11, 2012 constitutes the continuation and extension of the existing site guarantee agreement. The first agreement signed in 2009 and the previous guarantee of job security at the German plants up to 2016 will now be extended up to 2020. In view of this, Symrise intends to make further investments in the expansion and modernization of the German sites. Symrise will invest an additional € 100 million in Germany up to 2020, on top of the agreed investment volume of € 120 million up to 2016. The Group is anticipating accumulated cost benefits of more than € 80 million over the course of the agreement.
Dr. Heinz-Jürgen Bertram, CEO of Symrise AG, stated: “This extended agreement represents a long-term commitment to our German sites and sends out a strong signal to our employees. It includes far-reaching measures designed to strengthen our international competitive position. A sturdy foundation for our Company and our employees is crucial to the lasting continuation of our profitable course of growth.”
The new collective agreement also comprises staff training programs and measures designed to facilitate the Company’s internal generational change. Symrise is committing itself to offering around 50 vocational training positions at its German sites to young people every year.
“Demographic change will be one of the prime challenges faced by German businesses in the years to come. Symrise is a market leader in a dynamic and global industry and is therefore highly attractive to the next generation of junior staff. We are highlighting this by expanding our training programs, with which we intend to secure access to bright up-and-coming employees for many years to come,” said Head of Human Resources, Dr. Iñigo Natzel.
“The extended site agreement offers security to Symrise’s employees in Germany. Symrise guarantees that it will maintain stable occupational levels at the German sites until 2020 and that it will not announce any redundancies made for operational reasons,” said Karl-Heinz Huchthausen, Chairman of the General Works Council of Symrise AG. “The agreement is a combination of the tried-and-tested with important new additions to site expansion and staff training. It reflects the confidence that Symrise has in its business model and in Germany as a business location,” added Peter Winkelmann of the IG BCE.
http://www.symrise.com/en/news-media/press-releases/2012/detail/article/symrise-sichert-wettbewerbsfaehigkeit-der-deutschen-standorte-bis-2020.html
operation twist all week. Fed buying long dated paper all week with no new bond issuance. Good week to refinance your 30 year mortgage.
168.JJ says:
January 17, 2012 at 4:54 pm
Apparantly with a wife it is diamond earings and fancy vacations in order to get some regularly, I think the hooker would be cheaper.
Anon E. Moose says:
January 17, 2012 at 4:50 pm
JJ [164];
So what’s the going rate?
As the Beatles sang, “Can’t Buy Me Love”.
(168) Jj,
Back of the envelope. If you are not high end client no. 9 or super honry, and the wife requires regular changes of scenery, you would likely save with the hooker (unless my guesstimates of going rates are off).
[159] libtard,
As if a Jersey guy has a chance with a New England hottie. So your point is irrelevant.
(154) JJ,
And that differs from a troupe of NYC strippers how?
Nom,
I don’t have much of a chance with any hottie.
My hometown paper either has a great sense of humor or an epic failure in the proofing and markup departments.
http://www.holdthefrontpage.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/ohdear-e1326813857504.jpg
from the lead story on Yahoo Finance right this minute:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/where-investor-money-going-under-191550285.html
“Investors are very skittish. The last decade has really eroded American optimism,” said David Kelly, chief market strategist at JPMorgan Funds. “The problem is they look at the day-to-day volatility and they just can’t take it.”
Kelly believes that “economic momentum” – in better unemployment numbers, housing improvement and manufacturing gains – ought to be pushing investors away from zero-earning instruments and toward risk.
“better unemployment numbers, housing improvement and manufacturing gains”?
I call, “Liar, liar, pants on fire.”
(175) libtard,
Ahem, that’s because you are happily married to a hottie, and thus unattractive to other hotties, right?
If there are too many people holding their cash under the matress and the companies are buying back their shares and the market is up with low volume.Somebody is buying.Who needs optimism?
I will tactfully plead the fifth.
[179] yo If there are too many people holding their cash under the matress and the companies are buying back their shares and the market is up with low volume. Somebody is buying.
Therein lies the rub.
David Kelly is a decent guy and straight shooter. I don’t know why you would single him out for ridicule?
The Original NJ ExPat says:
January 17, 2012 at 8:04 pm
from the lead story on Yahoo Finance right this minute:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/where-investor-money-going-under-191550285.html
“Investors are very skittish. The last decade has really eroded American optimism,” said David Kelly, chief market strategist at JPMorgan Funds. “The problem is they look at the day-to-day volatility and they just can’t take it.”
Kelly believes that “economic momentum” – in better unemployment numbers, housing improvement and manufacturing gains – ought to be pushing investors away from zero-earning instruments and toward risk.
“better unemployment numbers, housing improvement and manufacturing gains”?
I call, “Liar, liar, pants on fire.”
Ahem, that’s because you are happily married to a hottie, and thus unattractive to other hotties, right?
No, that’s just fortuitous. What takes us all off the market, eventually, is that our standards continue to go up while our market value continues to decline. In other words, we’re looking for a center hall colonial in a blue ribbon town but we fail to realize all we have in trade is a POS dormered out crapshack in Butler.
These guys could have used a banker….
WSJ
NY POLITICS
JANUARY 17, 2012
Protest Sapped of Cash
Occupy Wall Street Freezes Spending on New Projects as Donations Dry Up
By JESSICA FIRGER
Occupy Wall Street protesters try to stay warm after spending the night in New York City’s Zuccotti Park on Jan. 11. The movement, which raised more than $700,000 last fall, is running out of money as few donations are coming in.
.Occupy Wall Street—the movement built on protesting corporate greed and income inequality—is running out of money.
After raising more than $700,000 last fall, protesters who keep track of money for Occupy Wall Street reported this week that the group has about $170,000 in its bank account. Very few donations are coming in, they said.
“If we keep spending at the rate at which we have been doing, we will probably go broke in a month,” said Haywood Carey, 28 years old, a member of the movement’s accounting group.
Occupy Wall Street voted to freeze all spending on new projects at a Saturday meeting of its main government body, the General Assembly, but will continue spending on basics such as housing at several churches, food, clothing and transportation.
The money woes highlight how Occupy Wall Street has struggled to maintain momentum since it was evicted from a Lower Manhattan park on Nov. 15. During the two months protesters camped out in Zuccotti Park, donations poured in from around the nation and world as media attention focused on the round-the-clock demonstration.
But many activists said they quickly became fed up with the group’s spending habits. General Assembly meetings turned into long debates over how to distribute funds to keep Zuccotti Park running.
“With such an influx of donations, we’d begun to rely on economic capital,” said Jason Ahmadi, 27, an Occupy Wall Street activist who has called for the movement to return its focus to what drew others at the very beginning in mid-September: “human and social capital.”
Mr. Ahmadi, who was among the first protesters to set up camp in Zuccotti Park, spearheaded the General Assembly effort to curb spending on Saturday. He diagnosed the group’s money issue as the “nonprofit industrial complex.”
“There’s a trap that the mission becomes more about sustaining the organization than its message,” he said.
To be sure, most of the funding went to necessary tasks, organizers said: transporting hundreds of pounds of dirty laundry in a rented U-Haul truck, keeping the Zuccotti Park clean, and feeding thousands of people.
But in November, after a document tracking expenses was posted online, some expenditures have been questioned.
There was a receipt for $1,101.07 to purchase herbs for homeopathic medicine as well as a few hundred dollars used to purchase rolling paper and tobacco for the “Nic at Night” cigarette station at the park.
“There were a lot of people who were poor and really wanted a cigarette,” Mr. Carey said. “You may not like it, but it was voted on by the General Assembly.”
Mr. Carey said funding decisions of more than $100 were voted on by the General Assembly, a protocol that continues.
But with the group no longer centralized at Zuccotti Park, day-to-day operations have changed and become more expensive. The group wrote a check last week for $2,700 from its Amalgamated Bank account to pay for two weeks of housing at two churches, Mr. Carey said.
The money crunch has opened a debate: Should protesters begin actively soliciting donations again as they try to push the movement forward? Occupy Wall Street donations are tax-deductible under its affiliation with Washington nonprofit, Alliance for Global Justice.
Demonstrators such as Mr. Ahmadi say the movement should stay out of the fund-raising business.
But Michael Levitin, 35, who helped raise a separate reserve of $75,000 to fund the Occupied Wall Street Journal, the group’s newspaper, said: “That money is there. Many people with money believe in this movement. I think we would be wise to tap into it.”
—Alison Fox contributed to this article.
[182] chifi David Kelly is a decent guy and straight shooter. I don’t know why you would single him out for ridicule?
OK, let’s agree to disagree. You and DK think “better unemployment numbers, housing improvement and manufacturing gains” and I think not. Though I will concede that I work for a manufacturer of tangible goods and we have been doing very good, but my data indicates our competitors are not.
Surprised that no one focused on this one….
Christie Calls for 10% Income-Tax Cut for N.J.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-17/christie-calls-for-10-income-tax-cut-for-n-j-.html
Just saying he used the word “better”, which is a relative term, not “good” which is an absolute term….better does not mean good…
The Original NJ ExPat says:
January 17, 2012 at 11:28 pm
[182] chifi David Kelly is a decent guy and straight shooter. I don’t know why you would single him out for ridicule?
OK, let’s agree to disagree. You and DK think “better unemployment numbers, housing improvement and manufacturing gains” and I think not. Though I will concede that I work for a manufacturer of tangible goods and we have been doing very good, but my data indicates our competitors are not.
[180] libtard,
Geez, I’m working here as your wingman. The least you can do is agree with my professional opinion and keep your ass out of hot water.
[176] fabius,
Classic.
Send it to Leno.
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