From the WSJ:
Recovery or Not, Home Prices Keep Rising
Today CoreLogic, a real-estate data provider, weighed in with its view of what’s happening with home prices. According to the firm, prices were up 2.5% in June, compared with a year earlier, and rose 1.3% compared with May.
June’s gains cap four straight months of both year-over-year and month-over-month increases in prices. And what’s more, CoreLogic is upbeat about the future: It’s predicting a 0.4% monthly rise and a 2% yearly jump for July prices when they are released next month.
The data come on the heels of three other price indexes that generally are showing that home prices nationally are either rising slightly or starting to see a slowdown in their declines.
But it’s worth remembering that this is the time of year for home-price gains.
As Capital Economics points out, the CoreLogic numbers may look good, but they probably don’t indicate anything much better than home prices remaining flat. More people go home shopping in the spring and summer than in the fall and winter, so it’s hard to compare numbers from one month without adjusting for seasonal factors. CoreLogic doesn’t account for seasonal trends in home sales.
Of course, annual comparisons are more meaningful than monthly ones, and CoreLogic is showing significant improvement over last year. Most economists agree that home prices have bottomed, but the more salient issue today, and the one that has most people worried, is whether or not the recovery will remain sluggish, or gain any real momentum.
From CNBC:
In a Twist, Both Home Prices and Rents Rise
Asking rents rose in 24 of the 25 largest rental markets from a year ago, according to a new report from online real estate company Trulia. Rents are pushing double digit gains in San Francisco, Miami, Oakland, Denver, Seattle and Boston, and rents are rising faster than asking prices in 21 of the 25 largest rental markets year-over-year.
“For the first time, [home] prices are up year over year in a majority of metros, and asking home prices have increased for six straight months,” writes Trulia’s chief economist Jed Kolko in a release. “Rents, however, are rising even faster than prices in most markets. These price and rent increases, along with declining vacancies, should encourage new construction, which means housing will finally start contributing to the economic recovery.”
The question remains, where is the tipping point? As it becomes more expensive to rent than buy in more markets, more Americans should turn to buying, but so far they are not. Issues with negative equity, credit and confidence continue to plague home buying.
1st
From Corelogic:
New York-White Plains-Wayne, NY-NJ MSAD June YOY Price Change
Including Distressed Up 2.0%
Excluding Distressed Up 1.8%
New Jersey State June YOY Price Change
Including Distressed Down 0.7%
Excluding Distressed Down 0.9%
From Trulia:
TRULIA REVEALS ASKING PRICES UP FOR SIXTH STRAIGHT MONTH, BOOSTED BY FEWER VACANCIES AND JOB GROWTH
Metros with Largest Rent Increases
% change in asking rents, year-over-year, July 2012
New York, NY-NJ 6.2%
It’s a great time to buy.
As it will be if prices rise or if they collapse. Just buy.
A Song and a dance.
A yacht-dealing millionaire ticked off hundreds of Detroit homebuyers when he swept an auction of 650 tax foreclosed properties last week.
Bill McMachen told Fox News 2 this is his first foray into the real estate business. He plunked down $4.8 million for the lot of homes, which averages out to just over $7,000 apiece. As far as his future plans, he says he’s shooting to make back $2 million by flipping some homes and donating others to needy families.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/bill-mcmachen-snatches-up-650-foreclosed-homes-for-48-million-2012-8#ixzz22tgO29cy
http://www.businessinsider.com/bill-mcmachen-snatches-up-650-foreclosed-homes-for-48-million-2012-8
“Issues with negative equity, credit and confidence continue to plague home buying.”
As they will for the next 100 years. Oblivion, dead ahead.
Xlopea is a fcuking blowhard. So is jj but at least he is funny.
Anyone hear whether Sastry is a Republican yet?
from last post 95: I think i am starting to like re 101
A single home in Florida filed 741 different tax returns in a single year, receiving more than $1 million in refunds.
The Sun Sentinel says the findings were released in a report issued by the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration. The independent watchdog group oversees the IRS.
“The report really underscores just how bad a problem ID tax fraud is in Florida and around the country,” said U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson, who asked the Treasury Inspector General last year to investigate the extent of the problem. “It’s become an epidemic that’s costing law-abiding U.S. taxpayers billions of dollars. And it’s one we’ve got to fix. That’s why I’ve filed legislation aimed at putting a stop to these fraudsters.”
And while the IRS has not officially confirmed the findings, House Oversight Subcommittee Chairman Charles Boustany Jr., R-La., referenced the 741 filings as originating from a single home.
The Sun notes that three of the top five fraudulent returns in the U.S. last year originated in Florida, with Miami and Tampa being cited as the top cities to submit potentially fraudulent returns. A Tax Administration spokesman said nearly 75,000 fraudulent returns were submitted from Miami in 2010, totaling $281 million in refunds. The IRS says it has been attempting to crack down on identity theft by increasing protective measures against the crime.
Rep. Boustany said another home in Tampa sent out fewer returns, 518, but received refunds totaling $1.8 million. In addition, he says a post office box in Orlando received just over $1 million for 703 suspected fraudulent returns.
“Over the past several years my office has seen a dramatic increase in the number of individuals needing assistance because of tax refund identity theft, a clear indication this crime is becoming a big problem in South Florida,” said Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Fla.
..
Speaking as a financial planner…..Fordham, Tulane, Syracuse, Seton Hall and their ilk are verboten……..unless you are rich, your kid is mediocre, hence this group becomes a dream school. These schools are moving to a buy admission model in the future……another one to keep an eye on is Delaware……Christie went there at it is a hot school right now, but it is FCUKIN expensive and they give no aid. Your kid better be going for engineering/CS, or cross it off…..
A blanket statement I don’t agree with. Syracuse U’s Communications, Public Affairs and Architecture schools can go toe to toe with any school in the country. The “value” of SU depends on the program.
I had thought of this general avenue of attack, but dropped it quickly as I thought it too hare-brained to actually work. But now that I see some concrete suggestions in print, well . . . .
http://washingtonexaminer.com/sunday-reflection-repeal-the-hollywood-tax-cuts/article/2503964
[11] confused,
““Over the past several years my office has seen a dramatic increase in the number of individuals needing assistance because of tax refund identity theft, a clear indication this crime is becoming a big problem in South Florida,” said Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Fla.”
There is a certain subtle irony in that which I find really delicious.
And finally, a little grist for FabMax’s mill . . .
http://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/markets/2012/corporate-taxes-only-9-percent/
11,
What? The IRS has something against people sharing a house?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/surge-in-dc-tax-office-settlements-reduces-commercial-property-owners-bills/2012/08/07/5af75372-d1c4-11e1-8bea-6dc0b4879aab_story.html
District officials have knocked $2.6 billion off the taxable value of commercial properties owned by some of the city’s most influential developers through a series of settlements negotiated this year by the Office of Tax and Revenue, The Washington Post found.
The settlements — which in most cases went against the earlier recommendations of staff appraisers — reduced the 2012 assessments of more than 500 commercial properties. Some owners saw the value of their multimillion-dollar properties lowered by 40 percent or more, which shaved tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars off their tax bills.
In a city chronically strapped for cash, the settlements represent a $48 million reduction in potential revenue for the 2012 tax year.
Tax office officials say they have embraced the settlements to save costs on tax appeal litigation. But the reductions have spurred anger and confusion among some tax office employees whose concerns have filtered out to internal auditors and the FBI, which has launched an investigation, according to three people familiar with the matter who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they fear they could lose their jobs.
snip
13,
Nom,
This touches on what I have long thought, liberals who espouse tax fairness want nothing of the sort. They just want to tax someone else at a higher rate.
Maybe the next thing we will see is liberals proposing graduated sales-tax rates. After all, if one purchases a $50,000 car then one can surely pay 10% on the amount of the purchase price over, say, $40,000.
[19] shore,
Already exists in various states. Luxury taxes are one form. Personal property taxes are another form.
[18] shore
“Don’t tax you, don’t tax me, tax that man behind the tree.”
It’s as old as dirt, and I have always thought that a society could handle that so long as the pie kept getting bigger. Think of it as the Deplume Collorary to Tytler. Now the pie isn’t getting bigger so the legalized theft that is taxation is now felt, and disappreciated by, the Paying Classes.
I foresee the battle between Makers and Takers becoming less philosophical and more granular and personal over the next few years.
Nom 21 it is a game of numbers per the electorate, you already know the answer. You watch the expat list closely.
And just to put it out there , when there is no one’s pocket left to pick …………………………..
See , clot, meat or whatever incarnation Chip is under at the time.
Nom – I don’t think News Corp as a business and FOX personalities as individuals will agree to pay higher taxes, so you may forget about this proposal. There are probably as many entertainment and mass media types on con as on lib side, but liberals tend to contribute more to the political campaigns.
shore [19]
At some point a special tax had been levied on luxury boats’ purchases, which almost destroyed the boat-building industry. Federal gas-guzzler tax is “sort of” luxury tax, as well – I don’t know any car at less than $35K that it hits.
July contracts post an incredible gain…
Bergen
2010 – 574
2011 – 596
2012 – 769 (Up 29.0%)
Essex
2010 – 278
2011 – 283
2012 – 421 (Up 48.8%)
Hunterdon
2010 – 97
2011 – 111
2012 – 126 (Up 13.5%)
Morris
2010 – 358
2011 – 379
2012 – 431 (Up 13.7%)
Passaic
2010 – 168
2011 – 183
2012 – 279 (Up 52.5%)
Somerset
2010 – 243
2011 – 254
2012 – 289 (Up 13.8%)
Sussex
2010 – 107
2011 – 107
2012 – 140 (Up 30.8%)
Union
2010 – 258
2011 – 252
2012 – 339 (Up 34.5%)
Warren
2010 – 56
2011 – 59
2012 – 78 (Up 32.2%)
Just a snapshot of the inventory situation…
Bergen County Actives (July)
2011 – 6671
2012 – 5068 (Down 24.3%)
Morris County Actives (July)
2011 – 4877
2012 – 4029 (Down 17.4%)
Passaic County Actives (July)
2011 – 3252
2012 – 2744 (Down 15.6%)
You can put them together to get a quick snapshot of absorption rates..
Bergen
5068/769 = 6.6 months
Morris
4029/431 = 9.3 months
Passaic
2744/279 – 9.8 months
I hear rumors that there are huge numbers of Sheriff’s Sales now scheduled for the coming months in New Jersey. The story was a tenfold increase in sales volume within 90 to 120 days. Can’t say if this is true, but this is what I am told.
Wow Grim #26 /27 / 28 suggest maybe despite Taxes the worst may be over.
From Bloomberg: Recession Generation Opts To Rent Not Buy Houses To Cars
The day Michael Anselmo signed a lease on his first apartment in New York City, he lost his job at Buck Consultants LLC. He spent about 10 months struggling to pay rent with unemployment benefits. Two years later he’s still hesitant to buy a home or even a road bike.
“Every decision that I have made since I lost my job has been colored by that insecurity I feel about the future,” said Anselmo, 28, who now rents an apartment in Austin, Texas, and works as a consultant for UnitedHealth Group Inc. “Buying a house is just further out on the timeline for me than it used to be.”
More at: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-08/recession-generation-opts-to-rent-not-buy-houses-to-cars.html
For those in the “fly” looking for bargains……….
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/gms/3190975807.html
RE 31, guy is 28 why would he own a place? None of my friends bought homes till they were married.
31 – How about we rename them the noncommittal slacker generation?
From the WSJ:
Home Prices Climb as Supply Dwindles
Home prices rose by their largest percentage in at least seven years during the second quarter, propelled by low inventories of properties for sale and high demand for bargain-priced foreclosures, according to two reports Tuesday.
Prices rose by 2.5% in June from a year ago, and by 6% from the previous quarter, said CoreLogic Inc., a Santa Ana, Calif., data firm. The quarterly jump was the largest since 2005.
Separately, Freddie Mac, which uses a different methodology, said home prices during the second quarter jumped by 4.8% from the previous quarter. That was the largest jump since 2004.
…
The main force behind the home-price gains appears to be a shortage of homes for sale. The number of properties on the market is down sharply from a year ago. Meanwhile, demand is up, as mortgage rates have dropped to their lowest levels in at least 60 years.
Prices are rising because “there’s not enough supply, given higher levels of demand,” said Ivy Zelman, chief executive of Zelman & Associates, a research firm. Last week, Ms. Zelman revised her 2012 price forecast to a 5% gain. At the beginning of the year, she predicted a 1% decline. “With every passing month, distressed homes are being absorbed at better and better prices,” she wrote recently.
Grim if Mortgage rates were 4% one year ago and Prices rose by 2.5% in June from a year ago it means the average return was negative 1.5%. I am not factoring in inflation or anything. But bottom line if home prices can rise in excess of mortgage rate aint a great investment. I rather be in 2002 with a 6% mortgage and 20% appreciation.
31 –
Breaking news:
Young person is renting apartment and hates paying the bill every month
Young person has trouble committing
Young person rents formal wear (like tuxedos for weddings?)
Young person wants to buy a house someday
Wait a second…..people already do all that Sh1t.
Why rent? I prefer the flexibility that hotel living provides. No need to buy furniture, no need to commit to cable service. I can move by packing a bag.
Crazy ex girlfriend? No problem, move two floors up.
Hotel living, who am I kidding, the couch in moms basement is more like it.
[29] 30 year – Not true in Morris County, just the opposite. Zero (0) sheriff sales scheduled for October, November, or December. There is one (1) sheriff sale scheduled for January. I posted here a while back when I noticed that they were drying up to nearly zero, now we’re at zero.
I hear rumors that there are huge numbers of Sheriff’s Sales now scheduled for the coming months in New Jersey. The story was a tenfold increase in sales volume within 90 to 120 days. Can’t say if this is true, but this is what I am told.
“I foresee the battle between Makers and Takers becoming less philosophical and more granular and personal over the next few years.”
Of course it will be. We see in political life that we no longer debate policy differences and work to create solutions to problems; instead, we see ad hominem attacks and smear campaigns. Sadly, “the People” seem to prefer the entertainment provided by the latter. Actually sit down like adults and find workable policy? That is such a bore.
Girlfriend? Why even bother? You could hire a hooker and rent her by the hour. Then take her to an hourly hotel room. Probably a helluva lot cheaper than having a full time girlfriend. Young people have to be frugal these days.
39.Grim says:
August 8, 2012 at 9:11 am
Crazy ex girlfriend? No problem, move two floors up.
Fair comment, but remember there is an entire school and those are only selected departments. What percentage of the graduates come out of those departments? I take it by your handle that you have some first hand knowledge…….bear in mind, the point I’m making is relevant starting in roughly 2005. These places aren’t garbage. It’s just that when inflation is allowed to move at 5-10% per year compounded, it really adds up with extreme velocity. These places jumped the shark when the bill comes to $50K+ a year. Having a BA 2012 / 3.1GPA from Syracuse with $150K+ in student debt is “doom”.
WickedOrange says:
August 7, 2012 at 9:32 pm
Speaking as a financial planner…..Fordham, Tulane, Syracuse, Seton Hall and their ilk are verboten……..unless you are rich, your kid is mediocre, hence this group becomes a dream school. These schools are moving to a buy admission model in the future……another one to keep an eye on is Delaware……Christie went there at it is a hot school right now, but it is FCUKIN expensive and they give no aid. Your kid better be going for engineering/CS, or cross it off…..
A blanket statement I don’t agree with. Syracuse U’s Communications, Public Affairs and Architecture schools can go toe to toe with any school in the country. The “value” of SU depends on the program.
Zero sheriff sales in Somerset county in the last 6 months. All of the properties that come to the sheriff sale get adjourned to a later date. I guess the banks are hoping for some sort of rebound so that they can keep the house occupied by deadbeats and when there is a sustainable housing rebound, they can kick the deadbeats out of the house and then get better pricing.
#29
I hear rumors that there are huge numbers of Sheriff’s Sales now scheduled for the coming months in New Jersey. The story was a tenfold increase in sales volume within 90 to 120 days. Can’t say if this is true, but this is what I am told.
Worked with a nerdy pimply eyeglass wearing skinny 20 something guy with thick brooklyn accent and member only jackets and capezios once who lived in a basement apt in his parents house and was an only child, both parents worked. Once for spring break he priced out Cancun and after factoring in airfare, hotel and fact he still had a near zero chance of getting laid, decided to spend the week at home eating junk food, drinking beer watching video and every afternoon he had a different escort sent to his house five days in a row. Said it was his best vacation ever.
Brian says:
August 8, 2012 at 9:38 am
Girlfriend? Why even bother? You could hire a hooker and rent her by the hour. Then take her to an hourly hotel room. Probably a helluva lot cheaper than having a full time girlfriend. Young people have to be frugal these days.
39.Grim says:
August 8, 2012 at 9:11 am
Crazy ex girlfriend? No problem, move two floors up.
Funny how in my day financial aid was where they gave you money. Now student loans are called financial aid. When I was in school a student loan was at 8% and you could easily end up paying double that back when you factored in interest.
Here was tuition choices first year of school.
4K BEOG/TAP grants – free ride
4K Academic Scholarship – free ride
4k Athletic Scholarship – free ride
4k Mom and Dad Pays or kids work to pay
8K Student loan, 4k tuition – 4k interest.
Now a Student loan is called “financial aid” funny 25 years ago how would paying double the tuition by called financial aid, should be called financial disadvantage.
chicagofinance says:
August 8, 2012 at 9:45 am
I dont understand why the US government doesnt get the bright idea of creeping in tariffs on Chinese goods. Wtf is wrong with them? They love to tax. Honestly, they should start out at 1% and just creep it up every year as long as they get greedy. Its not like the Chinese can dismantle the trade infrastructure and dependence they’ve developed over 30 years.
“Syracuse U’s Communications, Public Affairs and Architecture schools can go toe to toe with any school in the country. ”
There is no debating this. The broadcasting program at SU, if it is not the best, it is near the top. It’s tjeatre program is also top-notch. The question is not whether this school’s , or any other schools’, programs are high quality. The question is whether the incremental benefit of attending school X over School Y is worth the differential in salary to attain the “better” degree. In some cases, the answer will be a resounding “Yes.” in other cases, in most cases, I would argue, the answer is an unequivocal “No.”
One must always remember that one will be paying off school debt with after-tax money. The difference in salary and professional opportunities have to be substantial (and not possible differences, real and bankable differences that the ordinary graduate has near 100% opportunity to achieve) in order to take on $150,000 in debt when one might otherwise graduate with no debt or a small fraction of that debt.
My observation is that a well-motivated and high-achieving student who graduates from a reasonably-competent program at a state school can out perform another who comes out of a private institution but who has not worked as hard or achieved as much while in school. A Boll Weevil Tech graduate who comes out with a 3.8, was a leader in various activities, and who brings a solid portfolio or demonstratable skills to the table is at least as, if not more, attractive to employers as a middling graduate from Lehigh, Syracuse, etc.
Said Bool Weevil Tech grad unburdend by debt also has far greater life options as well.
“creeping in tariffs on Chinese goods”
Three little letters: W T O
ChiFi and Shore Guy, I don’t disagree with what either of you said. IMO 200k for ANY school is crazy. There are other angles. I was terrible student and got into SU through the backdoor. I attended UCLA (University Closest to the Lincroft Area) aka Brookdale CC my freshman year for cookie cutter 101 classes then transferred. I basically walked away with a SU degree for 75% of the price in the early ‘90s. Would I send my kids to SU for the full boat now… hell no. The amenities schools now provide are ridiculous. Kids live better at school than recent graduates out of school. There’s something very wrong there.
Wicked,
The sad thing is that 200,000 is not the max. It is not unusual to find total “soup to nuts” costs reaching $60,000/year. AND, only something like 60% of kids graduate in 4 years. So, one is talking $240,000-$300,000+ for an undergraduate degree? If one has the cash to pay it and wants to do so, fine. If the school deems a kid as worthy/needy and they slash the cost for him/her, fine. For someone of more moderate means and who is paying the full freight to spend that kind of money is financial suicide.
$300k?
You’d be better off buying your kid a 4 family in Paterson, the ROI is better.
Grim,
Roger that.
another under contract in The Fly:
Est Cls Dt: 10/30/2012 UCD: 8/6/2012 DOM: 27
[48] Ben,
This admin has, as I predicted, engaged in stealth trade barriers through regulation and bureaucracy . Tariffs aren’t stealthy and you can expect WTO protests and retaliation.
But I have said that everything Obama wants to do won’t succeed w/o protectionism. And I stand by that.
People lose sight of the fact that the education is a tool, it is not an end. If one has the choice of borrowing $200,000 to pay for school and coming out debt free, I don’t really care what the different “perceptions” of the degree may be. It will take so long to make up for that salary differential that I find it unlikely that most people would find the difference worth it.
If the parents rewarded the debt-free child by giving them $50,000 at graduation, the debt-free student is likely to be, right at graduation, where the indebted students might not get to for 20 years.
That is “it”. I’ve officially determined that Livingston, NJ is the third circle of hell.
Thing about the higer ed racket that gets me is that to even sit down at the negotiating table you have to open up your books to the other party. I wonder how well that’s going to work out?
There are also many new college savings vehicles available now that were not when I went through school. I’m presuming that these would have to be disclosed on a FAFSA. But how far can they go? I have 529s for more than one kid – do they pool these assets? Will the first kid off to college get stuck with a crappy aid package because I have to hold back 529 $$$ in a sibling’s plan? Can I exercise my perogative to rename the beneficiary within my family to avoid this? How about not naming any kid as beneficiary at all until it comes time to spend the money? Can I name my spouse now then switch later? What about plans held by grandparents naming the kid as beneficiary? Must these be disclosed? I remember in my late 20’s that grad school wanted my parents’ financials and I told them to pound sand. If some pencil neck wants my parents’ financials when my kids are off to school, they will get a similar response.
The whole need-based aid thing (socialism) is one travesty in itself, but considering anyone’s saved assets just punishes savers at any income level.
Moose,
Anyone who saves money in today’s society gets screwed.
$300k is the new $200k for college. Showed my son NPV calculations t
For tuition. Me? JJ would’ve proud, Prudential paid all undergraduate, 90% masters and most of my CFP
Was curious about costs at my alma mater. It’s now $22,413.56 per year if you live on campus. $11,060 tuition only. The tuition only option really makes the most sense. It works out $307 per credit. In 1988 it was $42 per credit and when I graduated in 1993 it was $82 per credit. Nice to see how things don’t change much over the years.
Damn I hope little Gator becomes a plumber, an electrician or better yet, a public sector worker.
Shore [60];
Yep. Makers v. Takers.
I used to think that at some primal level, it doesn’t take too much foresight or self-interest to have respect for other people’s property rights — if I can take what you’ve got, there’s less to stop someone else from taking what I’ve got. Now I think that we have a multi-generational classes of people (from welfare recipients to the ruling class) who’ve never made a damn thing. Therefore, they have nothing to take that hasn’t been taken from someone else and handed to them. They have no such fear.
“Anyone who saves money in today’s society gets screwed.”
Yup!
My nephew was offered two choices. SJU offered him half price and he could live at home, Dad said he would pay 100% and would buy him a used car. Choice two was university of Delaware for like 50K a year but dad could only chip in 15K a year.
Delaware is trendy and his friends are going and no one is staying home for school. He will end up with 140K in loans vs. he could of had zero.
Most loan issues are kids bad choices.
Delaware is a “hot” school? Really?
I had my Uncle Sam pay for undergraduate. Very nice person. My employer paid for masters. I salute you, only a fool pays for school.
Oddest and strangest quirk I encountered was they had a program to encourage poor underprivileged kids like me to attend grad school back in the 1980s. I qualified, interesting they set it up so if you want to return to school you can, but get this no time limit, program is long over. I am eligible to attend SUNY Grad School for free based on my Dead Moms 1982 tax return. YEA!!! Never took them up on it as I got my MBA for free anyhow. It also did not include CUNY so SUNY ment I had to pay for housing and food.
Maybe if wall st dies I go back and be a doctor or something. Like one of those penny saver lasik guys.
1987 condo buyer says:
August 8, 2012 at 11:48 am
$300k is the new $200k for college. Showed my son NPV calculations t
For tuition. Me? JJ would’ve proud, Prudential paid all undergraduate, 90% masters and most of my CFP
Super Red Hot, it is the new Fordham.
Shore Guy says:
August 8, 2012 at 12:00 pm
Delaware is a “hot” school? Really?
Stockton is 12K now with full room and board was 7K when I was there 94-97 so I guess not too bad of an increase.
Delaware? Newark, Delaware? Really? I am astonished.
Has anyone else heard this?
Deleware = degree in beer pong. Their new STEM education grad program a 10 month degree has a total of 8 students.
So, Delaware is the new Springfield, then.
Delaware was the closest party school to NJ when I was looking. Was very popular among the early alcoholic set.
also a huge hotel management program in Delaware so after 200K tuition your kid can manage a hotel in cancun, las cervaza por favor.
We saved money by sending our daughter to Community College for two years. You do have to be careful making sure that the credits transfer, but my SO is a college administrator so was all over that. She transferred as a 2nd semester junior.
The most important thing was her involvement in extra-curricular activities where she developed leadership skills (mostly just followed from showing up). On transfer, she joined the distinguished lecture program, and became its director for her senior year, a very good way to meet a lot of prominent individuals. Several of these have maintained contact and may have been instrumental in her acceptance to an accelerated masters program at UC.
Nobody cares when you graduate where the first two years happened and her college cost was way less.
Lib we used to go to Uof D to party from stockton as the south jersey kids who grew up poor went to stockton, kids they new with some cash either went Delaware or Philly schools.
I can’t imagine why anyone would want to go there except to get a degree in beer pong as stated above. Parties were nuts and it was not uncommon to hit 3 or 4 over a weekend hooking up with 3 or 4 random girls. Delaware girls were easy.
God I sound like JJ there
The Long Beach City Council on Tuesday will vote on a resolution to prohibit the planting, growth and maintenance of bamboo. Residents who violate this ordinance will face a maximum fine of up to $250 per day 10 days after the city serves them with a notice to correct the offense.
Last month Gov. Andrew Cuomo signed a bill into law making it illegal to sell, transport and possess nonnative plants in the state that the Department of Environmental Conservation will start to enforce in January. Recently, the Town of Hempstead and Smithtown banned bamboo, and the Town of Oyster Bay proposes to outlaw the plant.
Among the reasons cited for this ban is that nonnative plants such as bamboo spread, working underground to take over gardens and invade and damage neighboring properties.
You dont need a fancy degree to be a good wife and mother.
Westjester says:
August 8, 2012 at 12:34 pm
We saved money by sending our daughter to Community College for two years. You do have to be careful making sure that the credits transfer, but my SO is a college administrator so was all over that. She transferred as a 2nd semester junior.
The most important thing was her involvement in extra-curricular activities where she developed leadership skills (mostly just followed from showing up). On transfer, she joined the distinguished lecture program, and became its director for her senior year, a very good way to meet a lot of prominent individuals. Several of these have maintained contact and may have been instrumental in her acceptance to an accelerated masters program at UC.
Nobody cares when you graduate where the first two years happened and her college cost was way less.
Lib [73];
A freind who hails from Lower Bucks PA only stayed one semester at DE before getting the hell out. Did his second semester frosh at CC, and then went to Temple as a commuter.
For those parents on the board looking for a good value.
http://www.njstars.net/
http://www.hesaa.org/Pages/NJSTARS.aspx
You can have your kid finish school with a degree from a state college or university in NJ without much of the cost.
Didn’t know if you guys knew about it or not.
Hey, Wicked, take a look at Syracuse’s rank:
http://www.thebestcolleges.org/2012-princeton-review-party-school-rankings/
Here’s the complete list of Princeton Review’s top party schools for 2012:
1. Ohio University, Athens, Ohio
2. University of Georgia, Athens, Ga.
3. University of Mississippi, Oxford, Miss.
4. University of Iowa, Iowa City, Iowa
5. University of California Santa Barbara, Santa Barbara, Calif.
6. West Virginia University, Morgantown, W. Va.
7. Penn State University, University Park, Pa.
8. Florida State University, Tallahassee, Fla.
9. University of Florida, Gainesville, Fla.
10. University of Texas, Austin, Texas
11. University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
12. Syracuse University, Syracuse, N.Y.
13. Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge, La.
14. University of Wisconsin-Madison, Madison, Wis.
15. DePauw University, Greencastle, Ind.
16. Indiana University, Bloomington, Ind.
17. Arizona State University, Tempe, Ariz.
18. University of Maryland, College Park, Md.
19. University of Vermont, Burlington, Vt.
20. University of South Carolina, Columbia, S.C.
“Students whose family income exceeds $250,000 will not be eligible for NJ STARS II.”
Complete BS. For example, my multifamily generates $50,400 and my gambling income (up $40K this year though admittedly I’m having an insanely good year) prices us out. Way out. Though, I should get back to work. Somewhere in Irvington a teacher has to get paid 100K to babysit a future a crack dealer.
It’s not the school, it’s the area. :-)
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2012/08/top_10_drinking_towns_syracuse_american_cities.html
Top Metropolitan Areas for Drinking in the United States
1. New Orleans, LA — 8.6 bars per 10,000 households
2. Milwaukee, WI — 8.5
3. Omaha, NE-IA — 8.3
4. Pittsburgh, PA — 7.9
5. Toledo, OH — 7.2
6. Syracuse, NY — 7.0
7. Buffalo, NY — 6.8
8. San Francisco, CA — 6.0
9. Las Vegas, NV — 6.0
10. Honolulu, HI — 5.9
http://www.zoklet.net/totse/en/ego/literary_genius/party40.html
[82] shore,
UMass hasn’t cracked that list in a generation. The crackdown has succeeded tremendously.
[75]. Westjester,
Did that with Harvard Extension back when it was cheaper per credit than UMass. Your idea was just getting traction in the 80s. Now it has become an extremely crowded trade, such that the competition for transfer spots will be as intense as freshman spots. And forget about fin aid other than loans.
Yes. Part of it is the Christie halo, and most of it is the sheer number of high school grads out there are widening out the field. It is a domino effect….there are plenty of Harvard/Princeton/Yale types that now get bumped down to lower Ivys. Then many lower Ivys types get bumped down to Ivy wannabe schools. So many wannabes are now oversubscribed, and the Delaware-type schools are gaining traction. Supposedly the key is not Delaware (using the Syracuse analogy), you need to be in select engineering programs. Several clients have provided me with a personal anecdotal data set where the pool is peer schools for engineering is: Rutgers, Delaware, Virginia Tech, Clemson……..again…..engineering, which kind of step-up the bar in terms of perceived rigor….Regardless, I still consider it a ripoff…..
Shore Guy says:
August 8, 2012 at 12:16 pm
Delaware? Newark, Delaware? Really? I am astonished.
Has anyone else heard this?
You dog! Do you practive?
1987 condo buyer says:
August 8, 2012 at 11:48 am
JJ would’ve proud, Prudential paid all undergraduate, 90% masters and most of my CFP
practive = practice :(
I appreciate you mentioning this point. I am so wired to be driven, that I forget what it is like out there. Yeah, students don’t get a sticker price for the degree and have it prorated over the time spent…..the longer the matriculation, the bigger the bill…..really scary……..as a parent, you kind of what to hear about a stigma associated with being a super senior etc……when I was at Cornell, the attitude was people on campus beyond 4 years working on a bachelor’s (Arch & certain Eng exceptions) was unacceptable. I visited my cousin at SUNY Albany, and they had people there 6 years still going at it…..I was thinking WTF?
Shore Guy says:
August 8, 2012 at 11:11 am
Wicked,
AND, only something like 60% of kids graduate in 4 years.
Shore (18) – Relax. This whole tax fairness thing will be resolved once we absolve Olympic medal winners from paying taxes on their winnings.
why would anyone in their right mind major in engineering. Expensive schools, tons of homework and although you do start at a high salary your career is over by 30. Pharmacy is same thing. A married man with a stay at home wife and three kids needs a minimum of 200K a year income to just survive.
Still hard to believe my college tuition all four years was 20K and grad school was 20K. 40K in total. Now 40K wont pay for one year of college in most places. .
The End Is Nigh (NYC Tourism By JJ Edition):
Trojan giving away vibr-tors around NYC
By CHUCK BENNETT
This may get the city buzzing.
Cond0m maker Trojan is giving away 10,000 vibr-tors around town this week from “Pleasure Carts” modeled after the city’s iconic hot dog carts.
Under the slogan “Relish the moment,” the company will hand out its line of Trojan Vibr-tions sex toys, which retail for between $30 to $40, from the carts.
“Research from The Center for Sexual Health Promotion at Indiana University found that 53 percent of women and 45 percent of men have used a vibr-tor in their lifetime,” said Trojan marketing exec Bruce Weiss.
The giveaway was set for today and tomorrow in downtown and Midtown locations, the company said.
45% of men?
On women (I would hope). Oy vey!
[76] Pain – I accumulated all of my Beer Pong credits at Lambda Chi fraternity at Rutgers. It was the closest frat to the Rutgers pub, so after the pub closed it was almost always time to stagger two doors down to Lambda Chi where they prided themselves as “always being on tap” and of course adjacent to the basement bar was the beer pong table. Unfortunately there was an alcohol related hazing death in 1988 and that was the end of Lambda Chi. I guess Beer Pong Studies have moved further South.
I can’t imagine why anyone would want to go there except to get a degree in beer pong as stated above.
[93] chifi – I bet those statistics will skew radically when accounting only for solo use.
“Research from The Center for Sexual Health Promotion at Indiana University found that 53 percent of women and 45 percent of men have used a vibr-tor in their lifetime,” said Trojan marketing exec Bruce Weiss.
Lambda Chi: Are they the ones who claim that Harry Truman was a member and that Magic Carpet Ride is about their initiation ritual?
University of Delawre is under$40,000 per year, i have the paper work. As far as assets, they take 49% of your income after a $20,ooo deduction as your expected annual contrib,so if you make $100k a year, your EFC will be about $40,000 before they even look at your 529 or other savings. My EFC was $96,000 last year…..no aid for me!
Beats me. I only know that my friend Ed had a friend Teddy who was a brother and they were always on tap and playing Beer Pong from 2-4AM.
Lambda Chi: Are they the ones who claim that Harry Truman was a member and that Magic Carpet Ride is about their initiation ritual?
Interesting stat. Are we using them on girls so we dont waste an hour on fore play or are we defrosting frozen cucumbers the hard way.
chicagofinance says:
August 8, 2012 at 2:41 pm
45% of men?
2 year stint at CC is not a crowded trade at all.
I successfully made the transition from a CC to University of Maryland in 2003. It worked out stunningly well as I was able to take the mathmatics and sciences a junior college and transfer those credits to UMCP. If I had taken them while at university it would have been in huge classes where professors couldn’t even be bothered to remember your name.
Talking with a nefew and asked him if he had considered attending community college for 2 years before heading to the university to finish up. He gave me a face that bordered on “are you insane” and “only poor people go to community college”. Hillarious thing was that his father and mother attended community colleges. My Brother did same thing, he is a millionare. I did the same thing and I’m rolling in bank.
It isn’t crowded because kids these days are idiots when it comes to financial management. I don’t remember being so shallow when I was younger but perhaps I was.
Was in KFC the other day and I ordered a sandwich and side but no drink. It was more expensive than just ordering a combo and throwing away the drink. I fear that stupidity has spread beyond just children and now infected a larger segment of society.
Toad Suck, Arkansas, voted “most unfortunate” town name
A new poll across seven English-speaking countries has chosen Toad Suck, Arkansas, as having the “most unfortunate” town name in the U.S.
Toad Suck, an unincorporated community in Perry County, took top dishonors, edging out Climax, Georgia, and Boring, Oregon.
The poll was conducted by the genealogy site Findmypast.com, and polled respondents in the U.S. U.K., Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa.
“Some people are disconcerted to learn that their forebears came from somewhere called Toad Suck, Roachtown or Monkey’s Eyebrow,” said Josh Taylor, genealogist and spokesperson for the site, in a press release.
Toad Suck reportedly takes its name from a once popular drinking location for boaters on the Arkansas River. The toadsuck.org site explains in more detail, “While they waited, they refreshed themselves at the local tavern there, to the dismay of the folks living nearby, who said: ‘They suck on the bottle ’til they swell up like toads.’ Hence, the name Toad Suck.”
Interestingly, Climax’s unique name isn’t its only claim to fame. It’s also home to the annual “Swine Time” festival.
The Top 10 list was voted in the following order:
Toad Suck, Ark.
Climax, Ga.
Boring, Ore.
Hooker, Okla.
Assawoman, Md.
Belchertown, Mass.
Roachtown, Ill.
Loveladies, N.J.
Squabbletown, Calif.
10. Monkey’s Eyebrow, Ky.
“I maybe expected Squabbletown to rank higher,” Taylor said.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/toad-suck-arkansas-voted-most-unfortunate-town-name-194706672.html
[103] Morehead City, NC
Meat Camp, NC
[104] This took less time to find than I thought:
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Is there a university in Moorehead?
Back in 2000 through 2002 I paid for my NYU MBA out of pocket – I forget how much I paid, had to be over $100k total. It’s generated an excellent ROI, and I suspect my career would have perished without it, as I used it to help transition employers. Because I was studying exactly what I’d already been doing and hoped to continue doing (Finance/Intl Business) – I turned all of my schoolwork into sharper skills in my career.
Education can be very valuable when you know what you want to do, there’s a market for that, and the school makes you better capable of doing that. Then compare the costs of schooling for this, versus your expected marginal benefit/income it will deliver.
I think using expensive colleges to “find yourself” is a luxury. I guess the main problem is that our state-run high schools are extremely divorced from the real world, so don’t prepare kids to think about what they’d like to do in college and in their life. Which is why kids with parents who live in the real world have an advantage over those who don’t.
According to Google Maps it takes a long time to get from Meat Camp to Morehead City. 343 miles, about 6 hours.
Re Makers vs Takers (63)
Takers don’t only have things given to them. Social mores have changed such that they not only think they have a right to the wealth and services of others, but that they should be entitled to all these things without even having to recognize that they are living off of others’ efforts. In fact, the left encourages these people to curse and spit at the people who are paying their way.
As for the Banker welfare kings, they have convinced themselves that taxpayer financing of too-big-to-fail bonuses and financial repression of savers to pay for bank spreads is “for the good of the nation”. Just ask JJ.
Wonderful paintings! That is the type of information that are meant to be shared across the web. Shame on Google for not positioning this publish upper! Come on over and discuss with my web site . Thanks =)
#89…yes keep cfp any my insurance license up to date as my back up plan. Went into hr and benefits admin sales after pru was sold to Aetna in 1999. Will stay with that as long as i can and then see if i can transition to some sort of financial planning.
Re# 87
The state in which she matriculated, getting the transfers right is complex. Not that many even bother to try since the system is not designed to make it easy. Bad educational policy created an opportunity for us, and even a dissertation.
You were lucky, I learned zero during my MBA. I went part time over 3.5 years. I graduated in 1992 at height of recession. My employer who paid for it could care less, and due to recession did not get out of there till 1996. It was not till 1998 when I was in consulting that MBA became of value as you could put it on my bio. Also current job requires an MBA. I am expected at my level to have a graduate degree. Most staff do not, so you expect your boss to be more educated than you are. Also board and C level people expect people at certain level to have it.
Sadly I did get two trader interviews in late 1992, on at Morgan Stanley, where offer was pulled due to hiring freeze ane I made it to second round at a foreign bank as a trader. When recession ended by Summer 1993 I went back to both places but it seems trader training programs are geared towards brand new MBA and they were already recruiting Fall 1993 and Spring 1994 graduates. My MBA had a shelf life of just a few months. Given I did not do anything I learned in school till almost 10 years after graduation I did not use the knowledge but having the degree has most likely helped me make a few extra hundred thousand dollars.
Thing I dont like about NYU is I know a bunch of high level wall st people who went there part time, never switched jobs and they counted their current job as starting salary in stats. Lets say you worked at GS made 200K a year and went to NYU part time, you graduated did not get promoted yet GS would put down you started at 200K in averages.
Ragnar says:
August 8, 2012 at 3:56 pm
Back in 2000 through 2002 I paid for my NYU MBA out of pocket – I forget how much I paid, had to be over $100k total. It’s generated an excellent ROI, and I suspect my career would have perished without it, as I used it to help transition employers. Because I was studying exactly what I’d already been doing and hoped to continue doing (Finance/Intl Business) – I turned all of my schoolwork into sharper skills in my career.
how are savers hurt, we are in a 30 year bond bull market. Lower rates makes bonds more valuable. only 3-6 months money should be in cds/savings account. A saver would have been saving. If a saver just bought 10-20 year investment grade bonds every January 1st for last 20 years a mix between MBS, Muni, Treasury and Investment Grade Corporate bonds he would be very well off, with low duration and a good coupon rate. Savers dont save the majority of money in a bank. A bank is for parking money.
Ragnar says:
August 8, 2012 at 4:07 pm
Re Makers vs Takers (63)
Takers don’t only have things given to them. Social mores have changed such that they not only think they have a right to the wealth and services of others, but that they should be entitled to all these things without even having to recognize that they are living off of others’ efforts. In fact, the left encourages these people to curse and spit at the people who are paying their way.
As for the Banker welfare kings, they have convinced themselves that taxpayer financing of too-big-to-fail bonuses and financial repression of savers to pay for bank spreads is “for the good of the nation”. Just ask JJ.
Buttzville, NJ
intercourse PA is my favorite.
“how are savers hurt”
Savers have money. They pay their bills. They get to bail out debtors and they get to pay full-tuition for their kids while debtors kids’ go for free. If one takes two people, with the exact same income over the same period, and one of them buys a small house and pays it off and saves a bit of money (regardless of whether in cash, stocks, or bonds) and the other one buys a large house and suckes out every bit of equity to buy big-screen TVs, go on vactation, gambling at the track, etc. , the childs of the second guy will get aid for school and the first one will be told to pay up.
The first guy will also be asked to bail out the second guy to keep the second guy “in his house.”
uggh, excuse the thumb screen typos.
(117) Along with it’s neighbors, Bird in Hand, Blue Ball, LiTitz, and LeaCock . Damn, those Amish sure know how to pick em.
Amazing blog! Do you have any tips and hints
for aspiring writers? I’m hoping to start my own blog soon but I’m a little lost on everything.
Would you advise starting with a free platform like WordPress or go for a paid
option? There are so many options out there that I’m completely confused .. Any ideas? Kudos!
How about coxsackie??
Condo: FYI – you have two choices for the back-up plan. If you take a salaried position with benefits to solely focus on the planning, then you can expect a modest salary, but with certainty. If you want to take a full dive into “the work”, then my advice is that you expect to rely on a spouse with benefits…..it makes a huge difference, especially at the beginning…..
1987 condo buyer says:
August 8, 2012 at 4:09 pm
#89…yes keep cfp any my insurance license up to date as my back up plan. Went into hr and benefits admin sales after pru was sold to Aetna in 1999. Will stay with that as long as i can and then see if i can transition to some sort of financial planning.
shore (118)-
That is why anyone who pays his mortgage is an idiot.
What will be the value of good credit when every sovereign has debased/defaulted?
Don’t even start with the “morally right” thing. In the end, we’re all going to bail.
Also Condo: I started at Kwasha Lipton, which is where Jill, who posts, here worked as well. To give you an idea KL -> PWC -> Mellon -> ACS + Buck Consultants -> EDS -> Hewlett-Packard -> Xerox.
As a result, from all of the casualties and turnover, I know people in HR/Benefits at Fidelity, Mercer, Merril Lynch, et al…….really rough business on the operations side now. I would liken it to a death march……
#126, yes, Kwasha, one of my actuarial teachers worked for them, yes, plan included my wife switching 7 years ago to become a high school math teacher….benefits in place! Thanks for the info, we’ll have to talk sometime, have buds at ACS, what a mess!
Sorry…missed this one….. VIGODA LIVES!
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/08/arts/music/marvin-hamlisch-composer-dies-at-68.html
“That is why anyone who pays his mortgage is an idiot.”
Guilty as charged.
The irony is that Belchertown is pretty nice. W. Mass version of Mendham.
And for JJ, Knob Lick, KY.
Anyone know a decent traffic court lawyer for Roseland, NJ.
State Police didn’t like my exit strategy for the dicy exit / entrance ramp to Eisenhower Expressway from 280
Strangest thing, while the exit might have been aggressive and all, he decided to odd on a $130 Fee for unlaw use of cellphone. Since I drive a manual transmission car the phone thing is made up. Unless of course it is unlawful to sit and fiddle on it while you wait for these collectors to tally your tab for the day. Any ideas?
Find the cop who wrote you the ticket, and shoot him between the eyes.
He won’t be able to show up in court then.
I expect that one of these days we will wake up to headlines that a guy named Reeves has been taken into custody — film at 11:00.
Chi,
KL -> PWC -> Mellon -> ACS + Buck Consultants -> EDS -> Hewlett-Packard
I fit into the Mellon part of the equation for 1.5 years and then it was “GMTFO”. I have never witnessed such a sh&tshow in my life. Chaos..utter management and client chaos. But it was war & I made very good friends just from that experience. Hangin at Zigs or getting a Rusty Kale burger were our only salvations. I know one guy who had been there 20 years who left to become a teacher then came back when it was ACS. Thought he was nuts. It was like Vietnam to me..never going back.
So, when can we download the njrer app?
By: I was there from 1990-1995 in DC (i.e. 401(k) ops)……I don’t know whether you overlapped with Sternklar or Jude….not that I didn’t know it at the time, but anyone who wore a 2.7 GPA from Albany like a badge of honor has to be the biggest clueless fcuker of all time…..up until about 1994, it was a sweatshop, but it had serious talent working there….the beginning of the end was the Bank Of America project……it stopped being about a career at that point and turned to a death march…..once it went under corporate control, none of the old style consulting crap would fly anymore…..regardless, once asset managers effectively allow the business to become a loss leader, the rest of it was doomed……the whole thing is a big messy customer service center now with a skeleton crew that keeps the legacy systems running with sweat, spit, and chewing gum……
Bystander says:
August 8, 2012 at 10:07 pm
Chi, KL -> PWC -> Mellon -> ACS + Buck Consultants -> EDS -> Hewlett-Packard
I fit into the Mellon part of the equation for 1.5 years and then it was “GMTFO”. I have never witnessed such a sh&tshow in my life. Chaos..utter management and client chaos. But it was war & I made very good friends just from that experience. Hangin at Zigs or getting a Rusty Kale burger were our only salvations. I know one guy who had been there 20 years who left to become a teacher then came back when it was ACS. Thought he was nuts. It was like Vietnam to me..never going back.
NJ RE Report: always ahead of the curve…..
WSJ
ECONOMY
College Debt Hits Well-Off
Upper-Middle-Income Households See Biggest Jumps in Student Loan Burden
By RUTH SIMON and ROB BARRY
Rising college costs and a sagging economy are taking the biggest toll on a surprising group: upper-middle-income families.
According to a Wall Street Journal analysis of recently released Federal Reserve data, households with annual incomes of $94,535 to $205,335 saw the biggest jump in the percentage with student-loan debt from 2007 to 2010, the latest figures available. That group also saw a sharp climb in the amount of debt owed on average.
The surge is leading many such families to look closer at cost and value when choosing colleges. If the new frugality continues, experts say, it could make it difficult for all but the most selective schools to keep pushing through large tuition increases.
For Thomas and Mary Beth Hofmeister of Albany, N.Y., the news in December that their son was accepted to the University of Notre Dame, Ms. Hofmeister’s alma mater, was met with equal parts excitement and anxiety. The family’s financial-aid package included only a tiny grant, meaning the family will have to sink deep into debt to cover the annual cost of nearly $58,000.
Close.Ms. Hofmeister, an insurance broker and financial planner, says she and her husband, an operations manager, combined earn a six-figure income that puts them in the upper-middle class and were surprised by the amount they will have to borrow. She says she feels trapped in financial purgatory, between “people with lower incomes who have a lot of subsidy, and the truly affluent, for whom this isn’t a problem.”
The Journal’s analysis defined upper-middle-income households as those with annual incomes between the 80th and 95th percentiles of all households nationwide. Among this group, 25.6% had student-loan debt in 2010, up from 19.5% in 2007. For all households, the portion with student loan debt rose to 19.1% in 2010 from 15.2% in 2007.
The amount borrowed by upper-middle-income families, meanwhile, has soared. They owed an average of $32,869 in college loans in 2010, up from $26,639 in 2007, after adjusting for inflation, according to the Journal’s analysis.
Borrowing has also increased for lower-income families, but by a smaller amount. Families with lower incomes tend to send their children to lower-cost schools and to cover a greater portion of their costs through financial aid, according to Sallie Mae. The typical low-income family receives grants and scholarships totaling 36% of the cost, the lender says, while for higher-income families such packages total 21%.
The figures put this segment at the heart of a larger trend striking across income groups. More than three million households now owe at least $50,000 in student loans, up from about 794,000 in 2001 and fewer than 300,000 in 1989, after adjusting for inflation.
“There’s no doubt that this is a squeeze on a lot of household incomes that many people did not anticipate,” says Wells Fargo chief economist John Silvia.
Many well-off families remain willing to dig deep for the most prestigious schools and should be able to handle higher debt loads. The upper-middle-income households now repaying student loans spend just 3.2% of their monthly incomes on debt payments, according to the Journal’s analysis, meaning they should have an easier time meeting those obligations than less-affluent families.
Even after adjusting for inflation, the average sticker price of four-year colleges has more than doubled since 1985, according to the College Board. Now there are signs that financial pressures are fostering a greater cost consciousness, even among wealthier families, and an increased focus on value.
According to the Cooperative Institutional Research Program at the University of California at Los Angeles, which surveys more than 200,000 freshmen, the portion of last year’s freshmen who said cost was a “very important” factor when picking a college increased by 20.7% since 2007 for students with family incomes of $150,000 or more, the biggest jump for any income group, says John Pryor, the program’s director.
Rhonda Ker, a private-college counselor in the Los Angeles area, says some well-off families she works with are now willing to apply to second-tier schools where their total cost can be cut by half. Adds Ms. Ker, “I’ve been seeing these more realistic calculations and choices, rather than families just going for highest-ranked schools.”
Even if the economy rebounds strongly, “this downturn has been long enough and severe enough that, for a generation, it will alter the way families think about price and higher education,” says Richard Bischoff, vice president for enrollment management at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland. A July 26 report from Moody’s Investors Service noted that reductions in net worth, lackluster job growth and stagnant incomes have “created the stiffest tuition price resistance that colleges have faced in decades.”
To be sure, some families are turning to loans because they spent heavily or used extra cash to save for retirement. More than one-third of parents with incomes of $95,000 to $125,000 with a child who entered college in 2011 didn’t save or invest for that child’s education, according to a survey by education consultants Human Capital Research.
But with college costs rising, twin blows from falling home values and the stock market plunge of 2008-09 have sent many families over the edge. On average, upper-middle-income households’ median net worth fell 19%, to $369,320, in 2010 from three years earlier, according to Journal calculations.
Robert Bremer, a sales manager, expected college savings to cover two years of tuition for each of his two children, a senior and a freshman. But he says he “lost a lot of paper money” and now only has enough for one year apiece. He plans to borrow to cover the shortfall.
Some well-off households are squeezed because of their preference for costly private colleges. Mary Nucciarone, associate director of financial aid at Notre Dame, says families earning $125,000 to $250,000 pose the biggest challenge for private institutions because “the contributions expected from them are probably higher than what the family is prepared to do.”
But public universities also are seeing a shift. At Pennsylvania State University, where tuition has increased 21% over the last five years and state appropriations have fallen by 25%, “we’ve seen unsubsidized loans skyrocket,” says Anna M. Griswold, executive director of the Office of Student Aid, partly because of stepped up borrowing by families that don’t qualify for subsidized interest rates.
With their finances strained, some higher-earning parents are making their children pick up more of the tab. Among families earning $100,000 or more, students paid 23% of their college costs in 2012 through loans, income and savings, according to Sallie Mae, up from 14% in 2009; the share covered by parents fell to 52% from 61%.
“The boomers are the first generation shifting the cost of college to their kids,” both through increased student borrowing and reduced taxpayer support for higher education, says Susan Dynarski, a professor of education and public policy at the University of Michigan.
Some families are trying to keep debt to a minimum. Laura Casey’s daughter initially planned to attend the University of Arizona at Tucson this fall, but instead will work and attend a community college in South Carolina. Her goal is to qualify for in-state tuition at Clemson University and eventually attend medical school. “Her goal is to avoid borrowing,” says Ms. Casey. “Even though it’s a little painful upfront, it is probably what all of us should do.”
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