From HousingWire:
Generation Y values amenities over square footage
Generation Y, those of us between the ages of 20 to 34, are playing a large role in the multifamily market and reshaping how it will look moving forward.
“Clearly Gen-Y is having a huge impact on the real estate community. What’s really significant is that real estate developers and the whole community are studying demographics and incorporating it in strategic plans. We didn’t have much of this in the past,” Stan Ross, Chairman of the Board of the University of Southern California’s Lusk Center for Real Estate, told HousingWire. “The key thing here is that they’re using it in an analytical way to build their plans as to where and what they develop.”
This generation graduated college and was immediately thrown in a struggling economy with very few jobs. Because of this, many in this group either were forced to move home or live with multiple roommates in order to afford their housing.
Ross says that many in Gen-Y are often surprised when they find out how much a mortgage costs and what an adequate down payment is in order to buy a home.
Analysts at the Lusk Center say that once this group does move into their own place, which is typically a rental at first, the biggest appeal are affordability, on-site amenities, nearby retail and restaurants. Greater square-footage now gives way to easy transit for this generation. “As a developer doing my strategies, I’ve got to really reevaluate the location,” Ross said.
Good Morning New Jersey
So is Gen Y pragmatic and frugal, or careless with money and more interested in shopping? You could interpret the piece above as stating that the next American generation is willing to give up quality of life in exchange for circuses and bread.
Exurban slums with 4,000 sf tenement homes, dead ahead.
McHalfway Houses
grim (2)-
M0re like saddled with crippling student debt by the time they are 23.
Payrolls in half an hour
From the Record:
N.J. budget shortfall grows to $705 million
alfway through the fiscal year, Governor Christie’s budget is $705 million short of revenue projections, with more than a dozen income sources trailing his growth estimates.
The shortfall puts his proposed income tax cut in jeopardy. Also in potential trouble are millions in state spending now earmarked for property tax relief and for a payment to the public employee pension fund.
And the budget problems could also hamper the state’s ability to provide financial help to towns hit by superstorm Sandy.
New Jersey will need “spectacular revenue acceleration” during the final six months of the fiscal year to keep Christie’s budget in balance, David Rosen, budget analyst for the non-partisan Office of Legislative Services, told lawmakers on Thursday.
“Nothing in the national or state economic picture suggests that such growth is likely,” he said.
Superstorm Sandy’s impact on the state economy is a factor that analysts are still trying to fully understand, Rosen said.
Also from the Record:
North Jersey lagging behind NYC in job creation
North Jersey is lagging behind New York City in job creation, the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics said Thursday.
In Bergen, Passaic and Hudson counties, employment edged up by 1,800 jobs — just 0.2 percent — from November 2011 to November 2012. By contrast, jobs grew by a stronger 66,200, or 1.7 percent, in New York City. Almost all of the employment growth in the metropolitan area was concentrated in New York City.
“The city has seen a lot of job growth related to tourism, which has not carried over to the suburbs,” said Martin Kohli, an economist for the BLS. Professional and business services also boomed in New York City, and rose by a lesser amount in Bergen, Passaic and Hudson counties.
Manufacturing, long a troubled sector, added 1,800 jobs in the three counties.
How many square feet do you really need to stare at an iPhone?
9 – Is that some kind of trick question that involves stupid cat pictures?
[2] grim – I know several of this generation from work, mostly young engineers, so probably an atypical sampling. Most of them have room-mates and are working on advanced degrees at night. They also travel frequently and internationally and a decent percentage don’t own cars. They also know the used market really well and always turning over their possessions and buying replacement stuff; they don’t seem to be accumulators. I know one guy who rents expensive lenses for his cameras when he goes on vacation. I didn’t even know you could do that.
So is Gen Y pragmatic and frugal, or careless with money and more interested in shopping? You could interpret the piece above as stating that the next American generation is willing to give up quality of life in exchange for circuses and bread.
question for the techies… whats the deal with remote access login to work from home using your home computer? this has recently become an option but im hesitant because our family shares our home computer and i wouldnt want work having access to all of my family’s personal pictures files bank statements etc. the other option is to just keep lugging my laptop home but thats a pita. thx
[9] expat
Classic!
Sx [205, prev thread];
Another reason not to live in an apartment. My neighbors are on drugs and keep high explosives around. Neat.
I suppose the perpetrators were just more of the poor, rural, uneducated red-state “clingers” that Obama warned us about, right? Right?
12 – Get a separate PC if you are concerned, you shouldn’t need anything that costs more than a few hundred bucks unless you are going to be working from home on a perm basis. I see most companies do it one of two ways, you either VPN in and get access to the network, but still need all of your usual work applications on the second computer, the other is to remote control your work PC (RDP), in which case your home machine is really just providing a ‘tunnel’ in. Of course, lugging the laptop may not be such a bad idea since it won’t give your IT security guys any grief.
[12] Work accessing your home stuff isn’t really a worry. Sure, the technology is there, but I don’t think any real company would risk the litigation that would eventually be at the end of that wrong turn. Most companies these days have two or more types of access. My company has web access for email only or VPN(Virtual Private Network) access for other stuff. If you work for a decent sized company, there probably isn’t too much to worry about.
Grim [2];
the next American generation is willing to give up quality of life in exchange for circuses and bread.
Just what the public schools were designed to train them for.
December jobs in at 155k, November revised upwards to 161k from 146k.
A touch under the 160k consensus estimate
155K Mall Santas
[12] & [15] Probably beyond Nean’s capabilities, but I know some people who use a VM (Virtual Machine) only to connect to work. A VM is a clean, disposable PC with little or nothing on it composed of software only. I know some guys who only let their kids have access to the internet via a VM, mostly so they don’t ever have to deal with viruses and stuff.
[20] In 1981 Christmas sesaon I worked at Macy’s (actually Bamberger’s) in Menlo Park mall while attending Rutgers. They gave a 20% discount on clothes, 10% discount on most other stuff even to us seasonal employees. IIRC, I could even buy Bamberger’s gift certificates at some discount, maybe 5%. I used to use them to give myself cash advances as, unlike most winter workers, I actually had a Bamberger’s store credit card. I’d buy a $50 gift certificate at discount on my store credit card, buy something cheap with it and they would give you the change from your gift certificate in cash.
Moose:
You can send your kids to Dalton for 38k/year to learn how to be a heroin addict, get knocked up by a loser and keep illegal explosives and weapons in your house.
Talk about a wacky spoiled rich girl, geeze…
21. Great VM software package.
http://www.sandboxie.com/
I think RE101 is not on this site. The news has been too good in RE lately
cruiseshipdeaths.com
[24] Phoenix – thanks. I know somebody who can use this for his zero dollar customers. A guy at work told me yesterday that this is his “busy” season as all the senior managers who bought their kids PCs for Christmas barrage him this week with setup and security questions.
12 –
It depends on how your it department has implemented remote access. I’ve always worked for financial institutions that were regulated by the FDIC or SEC, so I’m subject to stricter information security rules. the only way I can give people remote access is through a company pc that they can keep at home or a laptop that they lug back and forth. Some of my peers at other companies have mentioned to me that they use a portal website, that gives you access to a virtual machine. you could do this from any internet connected windows pc. It does a quick check of the machine you are using (making sure it has adequate virus protection, a firewall, all the latest security patches etc.) Then you access a company virtual machine.
The big wigs in some firms I’m familiar with have field techs come to thier home and hook up a vpn capable router, then set up a home office w/ an avaya phone, pc, etc. The router just tunnels through their internet service to the nearest main office. You just plug in a company phone and PC or laptop and it acts as if you are in the office.
Microsoft LYNC (and it’s older predecessor…Office Communicator) is used at some firms I’m familiar with…you can use it to video conference, chat, make and recieve phone calls, host audio and video conference calls etc. all from a company laptop with an internet connection.
20 – No Santa this year, Retail clocked in at -11k
For those out there with daughters…..
http://scallywagandvagabond.com/2013/01/steubenville-high-school-students-joke-about-rape-in-video-leaked-by-anonymous/
It goes to show how out of touch Grim is with 20 somethings and their view of housing stock. He makes it seem like 4,000 square feet is a house that ever actually existed in the real world. Well maybe on Dallas and the show Revenge I saw houses that big and also makes it seem like 400 square feet is small.
400 square feet is a HUGE amount of space PER Person. Most singles live in manhattan, Hoboken, Brooklyn studios in their 20s if they live by themselves. 200-300 square feet is the norm. When they got to one bedrooms they cut them in half and get a roomate, So once again you dont get to 400 square foot a person.
When they move to houses, first time buyers are buying 1,300 to 1,700 square feet. But with kids what is the square foot per person. My current house works out to around 320 square feet per person.
Younger folks are dual income couples, both commute kids in day care all day. A house is just some empty building they sleep in. Kids dont need as much toys when they are in daycare or school sunrise to sunset 5 days a week and running on weekends, and parents only cook once or twice a week. Large games and toys have been replaced by Wii and Ipod. Younger couples I noticed go on cruises, go to disney, buy nice cars. The house is no longer a destination.
I am old school. I have a pool, trampoline, stay at home wife, kids who dont go to camp in summer. I throw Bday parties in house, have thanksgiving and xmas at home etc. But I am an older parent. The other parents who have kids my age who are 10-15 years younger have none of this. Plus they dont even do kid parties at home or even own a china cabinet etc. They go to inlaws for holidays or just go to atlantis or cruise over holiday weekends. They are either at work, on vacation or out at playdates or just going out.
There was peer pressure in trading up that existed in 90s and up to 2007. Now people go what are you nuts when I suggest trading up. . Higher maintenance, Higher taxes, Higher Mortgage and for what it is just a place to sleep. Used to be when folks found out my annual housing costs was only the equivalent of two weeks pay thought I was nuts now they think I am smart.
This is same as it was in 1991-1996 when people bragged they were smart as they never bought RE and locked in a rent controlled apt in the city. The folks with houses as anchors around neck were very jealous.
I would say 200 is the new 2,000 is about right.
I lost around 40% of the livable space in my house due to sandy. I will get it back in a few weeks. But I have been living the five of us in around 800 square feet and it is plenty of space. Of course I threw out 120 feet of wet garbage which is how I now fit. But you know what small it much better.
You gave more thought to the title than I did, but I admit, I do name posts to elicit the most impact possible.
Back from August:
The demand for over-sized homes is back
Bill and Pam Passarotti have a 13-year-old daughter and a second child on the way and plan on having two or three more. That’s a challenge for a growing family in a 1,100-square-foot, two-bedroom apartment in Bedminster.
So they decided to upsize, really upsize.
The couple are having a home constructed at the Toll Brothers community in Randolph that will be 5,500 square feet when completed. “We started with a 3,700-square-foot model and added on and added on,” said Bill Passarotti.
They bumped up the kitchen. They built out the eating area. They put a conservatory on the side and added a playroom upstairs. “We added on so much that we’re now in line with everybody else here,” he said.
Bigger is back.
A poll taken by the American Institute of Architects earlier this year found more people are requesting homes with more square footage. Some are heralding the return of the McMansion, those stately homes that aren’t quite mansions but are larger than the typical house.
And others, like the Passarottis, are buying double-cheeseburger-with-bacon-sized homes and turning them into Whoppers. The Passarottis are a double-income family. Bill works in sales for a large bank and Pam handles claims for an insurance company.
The resurgent interest is the result of several factors, including a new confidence in the economy three years after the recession officially ended among those in the upper-wage brackets, a depressed housing market and mortgage rates under 4 percent.
“Every new house I’m doing is in the 3,000- to 5,000-square-foot-range,” said Seth Leeb, of Seth A. Leeb Architects in Parsippany. “Most are in the 4,500- to 4,600-square-foot range. That’s the size house we were doing five or six years ago when things were going great.”
…
“From 2009 to 2011, we’ve seen an increase in the square footage of homes,” said Chris Gaffney, group president at Toll Brothers, one of the largest builders of luxury homes in New Jersey.
He cited the Randolph Ridge development where the Passarottis are building. The square footage of the houses there ranged from 3,500 square feet to 4,500 square feet.
“Buyers overwhelmingly took the largest home we offered and expanded on it. Now, the average base house is 4,600 square feet,” he said.
In Sparta’s Chapel Hill development, homes that averaged 3,900 square feet are now 4,500 square feet, Gaffney said. Not unexpectedly, the prices went from an average of $772,000 to $812,000.
Census Bureau data back up the return to super-sized houses. The average size of a newly built home was 2,480 square feet in 2011. That was up 3.7 percent from 2010 and represented the first increase since 2007.
And counterpoint:
Mayor Bloomberg launches contest to stir development of tiny 300-square-foot apartments for singles
And you thought your apartment was small.
Mayor Bloomberg launched a contest Monday to stir development of teeny-tiny apartments — called micro units — for young singles willing to cram themselves into shoebox-sized digs.
The new closetlike flats will be just 275 to 300 square feet — larger than a jail cell but smaller than a mobile home — and will have special permission to ignore city rules requiring newly built apartments to exceed 400 square feet.
“The city’s demographics have changed,” Bloomberg said. “It used to be the average household was a family, a couple of adults and some children.”
That meant that the city was filled with larger dwellings, leaving just 1 million studios and one bedrooms — not nearly enough for the 1.8 million one-and two-person households.
I expect, once the 2012 data is released, to show house sizes increased over 2011 (which saw an increase over 2010).
Average square feet, new construction, U.S.
2000 – 2,266
2001 – 2,324
2002 – 2,320
2003 – 2,330
2004 – 2,349
2005 – 2,434
2006 – 2,469
2007 – 2,521 <- Peak 2008 - 2,519 <- Decline 2009 - 2,438 <- Decline 2010 - 2,392 <- Decline 2011 - 2,480 <- Increase 2012 - ? (I suspect an increase) As much as I wish the McMansion trend to die, that's clearly not happening. To some extent, I think it has to do with the economics of SFH construction simply not allowing for smaller sized comes to be built as economically. Remember, the cost per square foot falls significantly as house size increases, meaning, builder profit increases as home size increases. From a pure economics perspective, it always make sense to build the largest house permissible by zoning. Otherwise, I don't know how else to justify only a 5% decrease in size during the greatest real estate slump since the Great Depression.
28 manufacturing and construction jobs for Santa Displays and oufits
Grim – a new construction recently closed on Magnolia in The Fly (likely in Dec 2012). Can you tell me what it closed at? They were asking $1.7M, I believe. Thx.
$1,635,000 – Cash
Ask was $1.699m.
Get ready for the next three generations to be progressively poorer (as in, unable to build wealth). Maybe in the middle of one of these generations, some significant amount of Amerikans will finally figure out that we’ve all been robbed.
I am not, however, hopeful on this one. And, the robbers have already made off with a good deal of the loot.
re # 31 – What is not to like?
http://www.tollbrothers.com/NJ/Randolph_Ridge
37 – Unable or unwilling? I think perhaps you give the former too much credit.
re: #33 – re: Larger homes. The builders had been taking a bath in fly over country with townhouses that were zoned and started during the bubble etc.
I recently read about the new trend to no longer build townhouses. Since rates are so low the builders are back to single family construction.
You are treated as second class citizen out there in Fly over if you do not own a detached home, and since Bernake is intent on preventing deflation he will start another housing bubble beofre all is said and done.
re# 39 – Those that could count on savings to appreciate every year and 401ks and that doubled every 5 years in value. They aren’t traders or speculators, heck most don’t have a brokerage account, their wealth accumulation was playing it safe. These days
that is no longer possible, since Bernake has seen fit to rob about $500 Billion a year in simple interest from the savers.
He says it is for the greater good, so suck it up.
37 – Unable or unwilling? I think perhaps you give the former too much credit.
It appears that they are unable, they may also be unwilling, but they haven’t yet been given the chance to prove that theory:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-04/where-jobs-are-55-and-older
A good jobs report? Sure, if one is 55 and over. In December the American jobs gerontocracy continued its relentless course, and as the two charts below summarize since Obama’s first term, some 2.7 million jobs in the 16-55 year old category have been lost. The “offset”: 4 million jobs for Americans between 55 and 69. For all those young people graduating from college (with $150,000 in student loans) who are unable to get a job, here is our advice: tell your parents, and grandparents, to retire already. Oh wait, they can’t because Bernanke destroyed their savings. Oops – better luck next time.
The marginal cost of going larger starts to shrink significantly if all you are talking about is making room sizes larger.
What’s the cost differential of upgrading a 3 ton AC to a 5 ton AC? $1,000?
What’s the cost differential of upgrading a boiler from 100k BTU to 200k BTU? $1,000?
What’s it cost to add an additional 1000 square feet of hardwood flooring, tile, and carpet? $5000?
What’s the cost of a couple of more joists/rafters and a few more squares of roofing? A couple more windows? You get the point.
One of the most clever statements I’ve heard on this is: “It’s the first square foot that is always the most expensive.” True, true, true.
Would you be willing to invest $600k in building a smaller house if you knew that, at best, your new home would only command $500k at market?
Developers have not cracked the code on how to get buyers to pony up dollars for smaller properties.
This is exactly why you see the chatter about 300 square foot rentals, the key word is rentals. AND, when you’ve got buyers willing to pay over $2000/mo for the “luxury” and “amenities”, the economics of the project start to make sense.
re # 42- re: “4 million jobs for Americans between 55 and 69”
Aren’t most of the people in that demographic who are working just keeping it together by working two of more part time jobs now?
I know of several examples of 2BR 900-1000 sq ft apt being shared by 4 singles….usually women…..when I was in my early 20’s…..around NYC, most people don’t really even create their separate adult identity until 28-35. Someplace to sleep and shower…what else do you need?
42 – Unemployment rate for those with Bachelors degrees or higher was 3.8% in December (NSA). This is down from a peak of 5.3% in June of 2009.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t04.htm
$150,000? I hope they at least walked out with a Masters for that kind of money. Looking for the numbers now but I know the UE rate for Masters degree holders is significantly lower than for Bac.
I have no sympathy for someone who graduated with a degree in basket weaving and can’t find a job, they never could.
That is a bunch of BS. One for 30 years straight who was a nancy boy investor could simply buy sweetspot 10-20 year munis/treasuries every January 1st and done fine.
I have seen staff leaving workforce to have kids who graduated college around 2000/2001 recently. Guess what they joined 401k in lets say January 2001 did the max in equities and just left workforce at 32 years to be a mommy. They got 2001/2002/2003/2008/2009/2010/2011/2012 as great times to buy and compound stock. As long as they stayed course they did great.
Older rule of 100 folks, (age minus 100 is equity exposure) did great. Lets say you graduated college in 1973 and now it is 2013. You were heavy into equities for the whole bull run and lightened up in time by 2008 to catch the bond run.
401Ks are up like over 100% in last four year!!!! The younger the better, someone who graduated college in Spring 2008 already has a fairly big 401k account if they just did 10% in equities.
The issue is the huge amount of folks who pulled out of equities in 2008/2009 or let CDs mature or roll over in in 2009-2012 rather than buy bonds. These folks gave themselves self inflicted wounds.
A safe investor who was rolling 5 year cds up till Late 2008 could have simply said I will buy Govt MBS, 10-20 year munis, treasuries and investment grade bonds as bonds mature. By now he would have a good income stream set up for next 10-15 years and when rates rise up he can go back to putting maturities and interest back into 5 year cds. Just a mere blip and he is actually better off
Ben is doing the lords work. Folks need money to grow. By pushing folks out of savings accounts, money markets and CDs in the period of 2009-2012 and into stocks, Real Estate and Bonds he juiced their portfolios almost 100% in four years.
Juice Box says:
January 4, 2013 at 11:07 am
re# 39 – Those that could count on savings to appreciate every year and 401ks and that doubled every 5 years in value. They aren’t traders or speculators, heck most don’t have a brokerage account, their wealth accumulation was playing it safe. These days
that is no longer possible, since Bernake has seen fit to rob about $500 Billion a year in simple interest from the savers.
He says it is for the greater good, so suck it up.
In a magic world of unicorns and fairies you would be right.
In the real world, contractors, plumbers, electricians charge based on that they perceive you can pay. One staff member has one of those mcmansion toll brothers houses. He gets insane quotes of 20K for a roof etc. The contractors see big house and dollar signs flash. His double size house costs 4x to fix.
Meanwhile folks show up to my house. See small house, nothing fancy. Stay at home wife, 3 kids, they can relate. Wife has coffee on, I am in my blue jeans, sweatshirt maybe doing some work myself and guess what the prices are crazy low. $75 bucks to take down a four story tree. $300 bucks to remove an oil tank. $1,500 bucks to put in 12 highhats, 20 outlets, fix four broken lights, fix outdoor light, rebuild main box, run two new 200 wires etc including parts and I get an apology. Neighbor with bigger house and three fancy cars paid 15K for same job. 1,000 percent more.
Big houses nail you in home repairs. They also nail you when you reaccess taxes. Oddly you can be dead broke and underwater on your toll brother mcmansion and a guy making 500K in a small cape with a stay at home wife and a used car in driveway will be quoted much less.
My mom used to hire appliances delivered and not pay for instalation, when guy came a pot of coffee on stove and fresh batch of biscuits and guy sees a widow in a small house in original condition he would also install it for free. Try doing that on a toll brothers house.
Folks are smart. My FEMA/SBA guy said he likes to google map folks to see who scammers are before he came out. I went did you do it to me, he said yep and I said I will make sure you get the max.
grim says:
January 4, 2013 at 11:17 am
The marginal cost of going larger starts to shrink significantly if all you are talking about is making room sizes larger.
re: # 45 – Chi – did you do it in the hallway closet with those broads back in the day? You know the women that piled 4 or 5 roommates into a small apartment? They either lived in or near Harlem in one of those old walk ups classic 8s, 7s etc or over in a 2 br in Grammercy. I never wanted to take the train north of Central Park to meet up. I usually tried to have them come and meet me in LES and then back to my place in a cab, most felt like royalty when I did not make them take the train at 3AM. They were real stage five clingers too once they came to my 2 br in Hells Kitchen that was a short walk to work. They never wanted to leave and head north back to their 3 roommates and cats on a Sunday morning. I always used the excuse that I had to catch a plane and I would put them in a cab and send them on their way.
thx grim. i am quite surprised at that price…not a great street, small property, great house. perhaps it was an LG or Samsung exec. the builders working seemed to be Asian every time i passed by.
can you see the house and the stats, amenities, etc? curious what a house like that costs to build.
Jets fans:
http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2013/01/04/rex-ryan-has-a-tattoo-of-his-wife-wearing-nothing-but-a-mark-sanchez-jersey/
Those 300 sqft apartments and the drivel associated with it on this forum today is making me laugh. If you’re a rat, a rat cage will do, thank you.
BTW, Grim is correct in his builder/homeowner analogies. As a General Contractor who built a house for himself, did I ever complain that I should have built this or that smaller? I don’t think so. My smallest apartment is always harder to rent than my largest.
It has been pointed out here many times, but observe how the better-than-it could have been is touted as a savings vs. it’s-worse-than-it-was. On the bright side, I woke up this morning.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-04/rich-catch-a-break-with-budget-deal-providing-deductions.html
My old apt in NYC was 200 square feet and was plenty big. I had to bribe the building super and realtor $750 bucks back in 1992 to get it. Lot of money. And when I gave it up in 1998 and it was multi listed 1,200 people emailed owner on rentnet and he charged a finders fee and a realtor fee (pulled stunt owners wife had realtor license) Location is more important than size sometimes. At least that is what jewish and asian women tell their husbands.
My old GF did me one better, she lived in Tudor City and they cut apts after WWII in half for servicemen and this things became rent controlled units. She had a 140 square foot apt. Was a studio cut in half. Pull out couch, tv on wall, small pullman kitchen in wall and one small closet and a tiny bathroom. If couch was open every square foot of apt was used up.
I think in Tokyo 50 square foot per person is not that unusual.
But the smallest by far apt I ever looked at was by penn station. It was only $390 a month. I went and looked at it in 1989. It had a high ceiling, so you walk in their was a pull man kitchen, a sink, a ten by ten room. then a ladder which went to sleep loft above room. I go to realtor I will take it!!! Let me just check bathroom, I open door and it is a small closet. I got to realtor no bathroom? She goes yes. WTF. Well I might take it anyhow, just show me bathroom in hallway. She goes this building used to be an SRO. Owner turned most units into one bedrooms with bathrooms which used up the hall bathrooms. This rare unit was not converted. And no room to expand. So therefore no bathroom in hallway or in unit.
I then go who the heck had this unit. Lady goes well some broker rented it for like $300 bucks a month . He just gave it up. Used to bring his secretary back here at lunch etc. Great place to have a quickie across from Penn. I passed. But someone grabbed it right after me. Wish I took it now. Really back them it was an issue. Today, just hit NYSC for showers and install an urinal.
xolepa says:
January 4, 2013 at 11:55 am
Those 300 sqft apartments and the drivel associated with it on this forum today is making me laugh. If you’re a rat, a rat cage will do, thank you.
BTW, Grim is correct in his builder/homeowner analogies. As a General Contractor who built a house for himself, did I ever complain that I should have built this or that smaller? I don’t think so. My smallest apartment is always harder to rent than my largest.
51 – holy sh1t. What a circus. It must be hard to be a Jets fan lateley.
dope (51)-
With that one post, you have redeemed yourself.
JJ – “juiced their portfolios almost 100% in four years.”
JJ it’s nearly six years since the markets topped at DOW 14k. You cannot make up for the the time lost without taking lots of risks. Most middle class people do not have brokerage accounts, they can barely follow who is in the playoffs. They are risk adverse. They go and re-balance their 401k occasionally after talking to their drinking buddy, bowling league or whatever small circle they network in. The government workers have defined pensions guaranteed by taxes they would not even know what a bond fund is.
In another 4 years it will be a decade and people won’t want to talk about housing bubble anymore just like they have done with the NASDAQ Tech bubble it is barely an after thought anymore.
Problem is the bills are coming due all of the unfunded liabilities for retirement of the boomers and their medical care are coming due. We no longer have a social security surplus. Now income and property taxes are going up to fill they gaps. The new State Legislatures coming in over the next few months are going to also need to fill their coffers. I can see NJ Gov and the NY Gov and well as Bloomberg reaching deeper into everyone’s pocket just like the Federal government is now doing.
It is not going to be a good decade for the middle class unless there is another bubble an even bigger bubble than the last few.
My favorite was I met a girl at the Roxy at the Perry party. I lived at home at the time. As we walked out I was like are you in the city, she says yes so I take a cab to “her place”. We get there around 2am on a weeknight and guess what “her place” was her two GFs split up a one bedroom into a tiny two and she threw them a few bucks a month to sleep on their couch when she was in city. I go so lets pull this out drunk as a skunk. It aint a sleeper. OMG so we take the cushions, two pillows, the two blanket and do it on floor. Around six am a room mate steps over me, I am passed out in suit, tie half off, pants around ankles laying on floor taking up whole floor. Scary part was girl was like hey whatever, I just left. Damm I had the best egg sandwich of my life at the deli at six am. Large apts stink. First it sucks up all your free cash flow as a single, second you get no stories out of it.
I knew a guy who did one better than this chick. He lived at home, had a used american car and had a nice boat that slept four with a bathroom he got used that sprung a unfixable leak on bottom. He got bright idea one day of hooking the boat on a trailor to his car. He used to go to Hamptons in it and sleep in boat. He even hooked up in my driveway with a girl in his boat and best of all he claimed no guest fees!!! sleeping in boat in driveway is not in the house. Damm you rich landlords trying to make a buck.
Juice Box says:
January 4, 2013 at 11:49 am
re: # 45 – Chi – did you do it in the hallway closet with those broads back in the day? You know the women that piled 4 or 5 roommates into a small apartment? They either lived in or near Harlem in one of those old walk ups classic 8s, 7s etc or over in a 2 br in Grammercy. I never wanted to take the train north of Central Park to meet up. I usually tried to have them come and meet me in LES and then back to my place in a cab, most felt like royalty when I did not make them take the train at 3AM. They were real stage five clingers too once they came to my 2 br in Hells Kitchen that was a short walk to work. They never wanted to leave and head north back to their 3 roommates and cats on a Sunday morning. I always used the excuse that I had to catch a plane and I would put them in a cab and send them on their way.
57
Juice,
Everything you said was spot on except the last sentence. Even if there is another, larger, bubble… that won’t be good for the middle class. A small % of the middle class might be able to get out in time, but the majority will be bagholders just like every other bubble in history.
Juice Box middle class folks get free everything. They have mad stacks.
We have obama care coming to save us all in retirement. If it passes. I know govt workers and union folks are furious about it. I was talking to one guy like 57 who took a lower paying job that gives him free medical for life. He is like this is BS!!!!! I got paid 25k less a year over my career as I was getting free medical. Now folks all over might be getting it. I lost a few hundred grant in income. I was like HA HA.
Seriously I was like just too bad man and then went ha ha after he left.
Average 50 year old should have 10x his age in retirement accounts, house paid off, and a college fund for kids set up and six months emergency money and two paid off cars.
That 50 year old had 29 years to save. Of that 29 years all 29 years were a bond bull market. 90% of time stocks and bonds were a great buy. College and Grad School were dirt cheap when he was younger too. Now stocks, bonds and RE is fully valued. It is too late to play catch up without taking on tons of risk. But how is that my problem.
51 OK How long before Rex gets the ax?
Grim,
#32
NYC used to have lots of teeny tiny apartments on the Upper West Side – the SROs. They disappeared during the Koch administration.
Tudor City also has itsy bitsy apartments. Ever see one of those? Closet-sized.
The sros around penn, port authority and park/lex around the 20s were scary. Used to even be a crack house SRO on 24th and Lex if you could imagine it.
Tudor to this day has some crazy tiny apts. They rarely rarely turnover. They sell really quick.
I saw one on Homepath recently for like 97K someone just clicked and bought. The beauty of a coop maint is all based on shares. The tiny tiny coops have small maint but when you are in a full service doorman building you get to enjoy the whole building while chipping in a small cost.
I am kinda thinking now of looking for the smallest, tiniest apt in a lux long beach building on the boardwalk in a fire sale. As long as it has a parking spot. I thought about it and said you know what, park the car, building has pool, gym, req room etc. Even if I just used it to go to beach all summer it is like the ulitmate cabana with a tax break to boot.
Still trying to figure out if the “egg sandwich” in jj’s #58 is actual or metaphoric.
I think at some point last year, my brain became an egg sandwich.
54 JJ:
“Today, just hit NYSC for showers and install an urinal.”
Yeah, but what about #2 at 3AM? I’m surprised anyone would buy it.
64 – portuguese breakfast
It is not for sale. It is a rental.
POS cape says:
January 4, 2013 at 1:16 pm
54 JJ:
“Today, just hit NYSC for showers and install an urinal.”
Yeah, but what about #2 at 3AM? I’m surprised anyone would buy it.
Portuguese breakfast = rub and tug?
Portuguese breakfast = debt omelette?
having difficulty in visualizing 69
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Portugese%20breakfast
Portuguese breakfast = rub and chug.
[71]
If there is a sex act JJ hasn’t performed, I think it would be because it defies the laws of physics.
ass skillet
I have a feeling Rex Ryan is more into the Dirty Sanchez
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dirty+sanchez
68
OK, then I’m surprised anyone would rent it for the same reason.
http://paulineym.blogspot.com/2010/10/found-and-sro-on-west-11th-street-and.html
72 square feet and a shared hallway bath, who needs more?
http://www.nestseekers.com/50336/chelsea-jewel-of-chelsea-charming-studio-next-to-highline-park
now this $1,895 apt is a great price for a manhattan rental. But man the shower is nasty even for me.
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/12/media-quiet-about-san-antonio-theater-shooting-2524596.html
“On Sunday December 17, 2012, 2 days after the CT shooting, a man went to a restaurant in San Antonio to kill his X-girlfriend. After he shot her, most of the people in the restaurant fled next door to a theater. The gunman followed them and entered the theater so he could shoot more people. He started shooting and people in the theater started running and screaming. It’s like the Aurora, CO theater story plus a restaurant!
Now aren’t you wondering why this isn’t a lead story in the national media along with the school shooting?
There was an off duty county deputy at the theater. SHE pulled out her gun and shot the man 4 times before he had a chance to kill anyone. So since this story makes the point that the best thing to stop a bad person with a gun is a good person with a gun, the media is treating it like it never happened.
Only the local media covered it. The city is giving her a medal next week. Just thought you’d like to know.”
You never had a long commute or had an affair.
I was pissed after I gave up my apt. A guy who worked for IBM who was a friend of a friend who had a long commute was willing to give me my full rent for sleeping on my coach Monday through Thursday a few months a year. He was desperate to find anywhere to crash in city. He lived upstate and was married. Wife did not want to move closer. He traveled for work and had four weeks vacation. But the 20-30 weeks a year he came to work he had a ten hour work day with a four hour commute. Wife greenlighted a sublet situation but was having trouble. I was pissed I already let sis take place as this guy said for next 20 years basically you can have apt rent free Friday, Saturday and Sunday for you and your wife and I dont care if you crash once in awhile either.
My old boss when he turned 60 rented the dumpest run down hole in the wall rent stablized apt facing a brick wall ground floor etc He could find below fulton street, he made like ten million a year. Told wife commute is too much every night and needed a place to crash at least once or twice a week when he worked late, like ten pm etc.
Did not want to waste money on a fancy place and plus what was point he was only there in Dark. The added bonus the cheap dumpy studio was greenlight by wife as she knew he was not having an affair. Who would go back there.
POS cape says:
January 4, 2013 at 2:57 pm
68
OK, then I’m surprised anyone would rent it for the same reason.
The trillion dollar coin
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-03/why-we-must-go-off-the-platinum-coin-cliff.html
joyce (78)-
Sad fact is that the gubmint wants these nutjobs shooting everyone in order to scare us into the s*bmissive state required for us to give up all our rights in exchange for “safety”.
Uncle had a place around the Whitney. Gorgeous little place with a balcony. Both of us hated heights and this thing was 71st floor. Shite. We stepped out there once – fastest step outside and back in history. Nice? Yeah. Balcony added $$$ to the price. Never got set foot on.
Still Falling: Average Junk Bond Yield Hits 5.91%.
to think back in 2008 five year cds were around 5.91%
79
‘The added bonus the cheap dumpy studio was greenlight by wife as she knew he was not having an affair. Who would go back there.’
For the studio with no bathroom, you’re right. Knowing they’ll have to drop a deuce in a cat litter filled 5 gallon spackle bucket will definitely keep the chics away.
You can certainly see your expertise within the work you write. The world hopes for even more passionate writers like you who aren’t afraid to mention how they believe. At all times go after your heart.
Nom, news from home.
http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/01/welfare_recipients_%E2%80%98missing%E2%80%99
Nom….nah… this story is better….
http://www.boston.com/yourtown/news/newton/2013/01/three_newton_police_officers_e.html
Certainly strange news from home.
I just learned something remarkable. The Nompound sits on a hill overlooking a place called Trimble’s Ford. It was at Trimbles Ford that Howe crossed the Brandywine in a flanking maneuver to attack Washington’s flank in Birmingham at the Battle of Brandywine Creek. I often walk my dog in the fields next to the ford. As a Revolutionary War buff who was born next to the field where Washington took command of the army, and grew up a few miles from Lexington Green, I have to say this is pretty cool.
The satellite view of Trimbles Ford
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=39.933333,-75.680556&spn=0.01,0.01&t=h&q=39.933333,-75.680556
Baeed on maps that relied on historical accounts, Howe’s army marched right by the Nompound. I know it seems childish but I think it is frigging cool.
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