From The Street:
Your Move When Appraisals Lag Home Price Recovery
Like many young things, the housing recovery is suffering some growing pains, as appraisals lag rising prices and make it difficult for borrowers to get loans.
The problem, mortgage-data firm HSH Associates says, starts with the conservative appraisal standards implemented during the financial crisis. That is compounded by a natural lag in comparable-sales data. The result — appraisals coming in lower than the price seller and buyer have set — is a possibility both parties need to take into account as they enter this changing market.
“While low home values continue to be an obstacle in the way of a full housing recovery, more and more markets in recent months have experienced home-price improvements,” HSH reports. “Although home prices are up in some areas, many real estate agents, homeowners and homebuyers alike are frustrated that appraisals aren’t keeping pace with current home-price appreciation.”
In places where the number of home sales remains low, appraisers do not have many recent sales to examine in establishing current values, HSH says. Relying on sales from many months earlier means using data that do not reflect recent price increases. Also, many appraisals are being done by out-of-town appraisers who do not have a feel for recent changes in the local market, HSH reports. It cites a recent survey by the National Association of Realtors that found 34% of realtors reporting problems with appraisals in the past dozen months.
When the appraiser sets a value lower than the mortgage the buyer needs, the lender will deny the loan.
What can buyer and seller do?
Harry Dent is not one to shy away from predictions. Just take a quick look at some of the man’s bibliography: he wrote The Great Boom Ahead in 1993 and followed it up with The Great Jobs Ahead in 1995. In 2009, he authored The Great Depression Ahead, and in 2011, The Great Crash Ahead.
Now, Dent, the economic forecaster perhaps best known for the use of demographics in his analysis, is predicting a big market crash this summer.
Dent told CNBC this afternoon:
We think markets are going to go up for a while. I think Maria [Bartiromo] is right – the market wants to go up.
We’ll see one more correction into this second fiscal cliff. I think we’ll see another rally into March, April, May, or something. By the summer, we get another crash.
Good Morning New Jersey
From the NYT:
Another Slap on the Wrist
In the face of widespread evidence of illegal foreclosure practices, federal regulators in 2011 told the big banks to investigate themselves.
The banks had to hire consultants to review foreclosures in 2009 and 2010. If violations were found, they were supposed to reimburse wronged borrowers “as appropriate.” Regulators pledged to ensure that the reviews would be comprehensive and reliable. In practice, it was left up to banks to decide what constituted wrongful foreclosure and appropriate redress.
Not surprisingly, after spending an estimated $1.5 billion on consultants, the banks have found little wrongdoing and provided no meaningful relief. Equally unsurprising, regulators will let the banks off with a wrist slap for their failure to execute credible and effective reviews.
This week, the Federal Reserve and the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency reached a deal with 10 banks under which the regulators will end the reviews and the banks will instead provide $8.5 billion in aid to borrowers. Of that, $3.3 billion is earmarked for cash payments to borrowers who lost their homes and $5.2 billion is for loan modifications and other help for borrowers currently at risk of foreclosure.
From the Record:
Foreclosure pace likely to pick up in NJ after ruling
The case involved Wells Fargo, which has been cleared to resume foreclosures on about 3,300 New Jersey homeowners under an order signed by Superior Court Judge Margaret M. McVeigh in Paterson.
The impact may be felt beyond those 3,300 homeowners because the Wells Fargo case “provided an example for other big lenders to follow procedurally,” according to Kristi Jasberg Robinson, a lawyer with the state judiciary. Foreclosure activity could begin this year on 15,000 or more homeowners affected by the same faulty paperwork that was at issue in the Wells Fargo case, she said.
The foreclosure pipeline in the Garden State slowed to a trickle in 2011 in the wake of reports of foreclosure abuses — known as “robo-signing,” because mortgage industry employees signed legal documents by the thousands without verifying them in their rush to evict homeowners.
But even before the Wells Fargo decision, earlier legal settlements resulted in a tripling of New Jersey foreclosures in 2012 from 2011’s very low numbers. Through November 2012, about 22,000 residential foreclosure actions were filed in New Jersey, according to the state judiciary.
…
Rebecca Schore, a lawyer with Legal Services of New Jersey, which represents many homeowners fighting foreclosure, called McVeigh’s ruling “a disappointing outcome.” She said many Wells Fargo borrowers wrote to the judge in “heart-wrenching” letters that detailed their unsuccessful efforts to get Wells Fargo to modify their loans so they could stay in their homes.
…
Following the Wells Fargo case, other mortgage companies have begun seeking the court’s approval to re-send the notices and get foreclosure actions started again. About 15,000 homeowners would be affected by those cases, and more are likely to enter the foreclosure system because several big mortgage companies have yet to take action to resume foreclosures stalled by faulty notices, Robinson said.
I believe the bill signed to accelerate foreclosures on abandoned properties takes effect in April, that should also start to push some additional volume through the pipeline.
Great photo, great cover.
http://imgick.nj.com/home/njo-media/width748/img/politics_impact/photo/12091938-mmmain.jpg
National Association of Realtors that found 34% of realtors reporting problems with appraisals in the past dozen months.
Gee, I never heard realtors complaining about appraisals in 2005 when the MO was either A) blast-fax “Whoever can appraise this stinking turd for $799k gets the job” or B) “Hit my number or you’re blacklisted with my agency.”
They poisoned the well, now they’re complaining about the water. F- ’em.
6 –
Told my Uncle he should get a copy frame it and hang it over the fireplace at his Seaside house.
Fcuk you pay me.
So a deadbeat mexican subprime non english speaking couple buying a run down overpriced POS estate sale cape and the professional appraiser using sophisticated modeling tools to come to market price of home is wrong. Sure that is the problem.
Massive slap in the wrist for those folks doing that work. Chase, BOA, Citi, etc hard thousands of unemployed financial service works and new college hires who could not find job during recession via consulting companies to do this review. Non got benefits. All got fired this week. No severance no nothing. Chase alone had 800 of these folks reviewing Wamu files and BAC had like 1,000 reviewing Countrywide/Merril files. All were promised work your butt off and in end you can be a full time employee. Guess what all out on street. Funny part the one guy I know who was doing it was laid off at start of financial crisis finally got this gig one year ago and guess what he had a WAMU mortgage. Guess he got screwed rikers island style
grim says:
January 9, 2013 at 8:20 am
From the NYT:
Another Slap on the Wrist
In the face of widespread evidence of illegal foreclosure practices, federal regulators in 2011 told the big banks to investigate themselves.
The banks had to hire consultants to review foreclosures in 2009 and 2010. If violations were found, they were supposed to reimburse wronged borrowers “as appropriate.” Regulators pledged to ensure that the reviews would be comprehensive and reliable. In practice, it was left up to banks to decide what constituted wrongful foreclosure and appropriate redress.
Not surprisingly, after spending an estimated $1.5 billion on consultants, the banks have found little wrongdoing and provided no meaningful relief. Equally unsurprising, regulators will let the banks off with a wrist slap for their failure to execute credible and effective reviews.
This week, the Federal Reserve and the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency reached a deal with 10 banks under which the regulators will end the reviews and the banks will instead provide $8.5 billion in aid to borrowers. Of that, $3.3 billion is earmarked for cash payments to borrowers who lost their homes and $5.2 billion is for loan modifications and other help for borrowers currently at risk of foreclosure.
8 Extreme Beers You Must Try
http://news.menshealth.com/extreme-beers/2013/01/08/
professional appraiser using sophisticated modeling tools
There are no “sophisticated modeling tools” involved in the process. I don’t believe residential lenders recognize appraisals based on cost or income capitalization approaches (which would require more rigor than the more simplistic comp and adjust methodology).
11 Sounds like a 60 Minutes episode
11 –
Temp to perm or contract to hire jobs are the biggest crock of sh1t going in today’s workplace. I’ve never seen anyone get hired full time. In fact, I’ve seen HR departments put “temp to perm” in a job description when I already knew ahead of time that the job duration was 3 months.
[12] dope,
Nice!
See, I don’t object to everything you write!
More homes for Private investors when foreclosure resumes
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-09/blackstone-steps-up-home-buying-as-prices-jump-mortgages.html
Realtor theory is greedy kids vastly inflate value of house. Realtor knows it is not worth much but often takes listing, they then launch a massive market effort to sell house under the technique I only need to find one idiot
As house goes through price reductions and cheap makeovers and lots of trick photos and chocolate chip cookies baking in open houses finally some couple falls in love with house for some god knows reason and buys it.
That buying price may or may not reflect the actual price of the asset. The appraiser for better or worse is trying to determine actual price.
Like I sold a car years ago with a dent and tires that were 20 years old!!! Some guy after two months showed up and it was identical to his dear old dads car and it was the exact color in and out and he paid me my price and drove off on 20 year old snow tires in July without even taking it to mechanic. Was my car worth that price. Who knows. Selling a single house is like that.. Try selling 100 houses in one day and you get a better picture
grim says:
January 9, 2013 at 9:15 am
professional appraiser using sophisticated modeling tools
There are no “sophisticated modeling tools” involved in the process. I don’t believe residential lenders recognize appraisals based on cost or income capitalization approaches (which would require more rigor than the more simplistic comp and adjust methodology).
The market is moving much faster than anybody thought possible,” Gray said during an interview in Blackstone’s New York headquarters. “Housing is much stronger than people anticipated.”
“If you are outraged about AIG suing the US govt, just remember: it’s teachers + other union members who are greedy.”
Q for finance gurus:
Pay cash for a new car [well, a minivan, but such is life] or get a 0% APR? There’s just about enough cash in checking account and it getting 0% interest. About 6-8 mo emergency funds are in CDs, so if SHTF, we are partly covered.
Cash back is 750 vs 0% APR for 60 mos with ” $16.67 per $1,000 borrowed” [the wording of the $16.67 is ambiguous — I hope it is a one time charge, so an equivalent of another $500 cash back]?
If paying right away, is it worth putting some amount on AMEX for the cash back, or is it really being cheap?
If going APR, should I dump the balance into S&P or pay mortgage [4.35%]?
Let me push my luck, is it worth refi from 4.35%? Last time I did it from 5% to 4.375%, in 2010, I had this uneasy feeling that it was close to a wash due to the title insurance, loan origination costs, etc. Lender doesn’t operate in NJ anymore, so I have to go through a broker.
AIG can sue but can they win? Unless there is something illegal on the terms they agreed and signed on. I think this is more political. The camp that disagree with saving TBTF can now say I TOLD YOU SO
#20, Heresy! You ignored the biggest of them all, Big Bird…
This is like saying Fidel Castro’s Health is is much stronger than people anticipated.
yome says:
January 9, 2013 at 9:45 am
The market is moving much faster than anybody thought possible,” Gray said during an interview in Blackstone’s New York headquarters. “Housing is much stronger than people anticipated.”
Buy a cheap used car cash from private owner and pay no sales tax and throw remaining money at your mortgage minus $75. Then take the $75 and get a nice rub and a tug so the whole day is full of happy endings.
McDullard says:
January 9, 2013 at 9:50 am
25 –
Only the best professional advice here on njrereport folks.
Yome – why not quote the rest of the article? It is much more interesting read that big money is rushing in to scoop up foreclosures and short sales to rehab them for rentals. There is your cash buyer. Big money and one of the reasons why anyone who has attempted to buy a short sale or foreclosure is getting outbid with cash.
Rentals….get that?
“Blackstone has spent more than $2.5 billion on 16,000 homes to manage as rentals, deploying capital from the $13.3 billion fund it raised last year, said Jonathan Gray, global head of real estate for the world’s largest private equity firm. That’s up from $1 billion of homes owned in October, when Blackstone Chairman Stephen Schwarzman said the company was spending $100 million a week on houses. ”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-09/blackstone-steps-up-home-buying-as-prices-jump-mortgages.html
re# 25 – ” pay no sales tax”
JJ you don’t live in NJ. The secret police at the NJ DMV will have you drawn and quartered if you try and claim you paid $0 or $1 to avoid sales tax when you show up to and switch the title and register the car.
I saved over $15k and paid cash by buying a 1 year old service car loaner from the dealer. Got rid of the initial depreciation and did not pay for extra charges like delivery fee and still have the remaining 3 year free service and warranty and upped the mechanical warranty to 100k. Its a dealer used car, I assume they maintained the car and did all point inspection before selling it.
Juice i believe it says rentals on quotes. Point is you have private buyer for the coming foreclosures.I dont know what you think is my position on the statement.
Dope [20];
“If you are outraged about AIG suing the US govt, just remember: it’s teachers + other union members who are greedy.”
Everyone is greedy. Difference here is that AIG didn’t hand pick their negotiating partner on the other side of the table like the public unions do.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/us-business/morgan-stanley-to-cut-1600-jobs-in-investment-bank-report/article7097876/?cmpid=rss1&utm_source=dlvr.it&_rob_utm_medium=twitter
Morgan Stanley Cuts . Sorry
Yo [29];
Its a dealer used car, I assume they maintained the car and did all point inspection before selling it.
BWAA! HA! HA! HA! No wonder you believe the things his O-ness shovels.
yome – you did not state a position so you don’t have one.
My position is smart money does not see a housing recovery led by a job recovery so they are scooping up single family homes and converting them to rentals.
Here you go…Blackstone Rentals.
http://www.invitationhomesforrent.com/apartmentsforrent/searchlisting.aspx?txtCity=new%20jersey&cmbBeds=-1&cmbBaths=-1&sPageSize=25&LatLng=%2840.0583238,-74.4056612%29&
How do they do it. Last time I registered a car from a private owner was a long time ago. But I just used the NYS gift form. However, in NYS you can transfer clear title by just signing back of title and handing it to new person. Even if you use form you just give signature.
The receipt for sale of car in NYS is never given to DMV. Last car I sold myself for $4,500 gave guy receipt he paid $4,500. NYS title etc. has no dollar amount. He told me he was just going to drop the 4 and put in $500. Used cars are sold via cash in my world. Guy handed me 45 hundred dollar bills. How does NJ DMV know what car sold for.
NYS claims they have some system. But to be honest cars trade in a wide range. That corvette you are buying for $500 bucks could be an off the road car in a garage in long beach that got flood damage. I almost sold my Benz years ago when I blew the engine but offers were so low. I dont know how DMV can enforce it.
Lets say I try to change the oil in my 2011 Caddie I just bought, I forget to put screw back in and whole engine siezes up while trying to fix it I get oil all over seats and carpet and go screw it and put it on Craigs list for 5k. It could be legimate.
How is NJ doing this. Does NJ charge tax when Mom transfers car to Kid as a gift.
In NJ wow I have to say it was a gift. Also
DMV Sales Tax
A vehicle is only exempt from sales tax if the customer indicates on the purchase price that it is a gift on the sales tax form. And NJ lets buyer write in his purchase price.
Buying a car direct from owner I dont see how NJ tracks this at all. I have bought maybe nine cars direct from the owner. The whole process is loosey goosey
Juice Box says:
January 9, 2013 at 10:15 am
re# 25 – ” pay no sales tax”
JJ you don’t live in NJ. The secret police at the NJ DMV will have you drawn and quartered if you try and claim you paid $0 or $1 to avoid sales tax when you show up to and switch the title and register the car.
My BMW I got at auction was a certified pre-owned BMW. Turns out when I got to my dealer car was never CPO’s. Turns out Car Fax is on the honor system. A dealer can enter it is CPO’s without doing it. Also if you notice CPO checklist includes stuff like check hoses, check oil. Notice it does not say change hoses just check oil. It is kinda like making beef kosher, they wave a majic wand and poof it is kosher
Anon E. Moose says:
January 9, 2013 at 10:28 am
Yo [29];
Its a dealer used car, I assume they maintained the car and did all point inspection before selling it.
BWAA! HA! HA! HA! No wonder you believe the things his O-ness shovels.
Ritholtz/IBD – deficit shrinking fast
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2012/11/about-that-ballooning-deficit/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Believe it or not, the federal deficit has fallen faster over the past three years than it has in any such stretch since demobilization from World War II.
“In fact, outside of that post-WWII era, the only time the deficit has fallen faster was when the economy relapsed in 1937, turning the Great Depression into a decade-long affair.”
re # 21 – McDullard assuming the cash price and 0% interest price are the same, then finance it. It’s free money courtesy of the Fed and the auto dealers and their bulging inventory, that you will be paying off in depreciated dollars in a few years. It is always good for your credit score as well to have a loan or two and pay it off timely.
Juice I qouted Gray from the company saying prces of homes are going up faster than they anticipated. Oviously they have different views as your article. One is buying homes and yours is a paid journalist
The market is moving much faster than anybody thought possible,” Gray said during an interview in Blackstone’s New York headquarters. “Housing is much stronger than people anticipated.”
Gotta love Ritholtz’s comments section disclaimer/warning.
“Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data, ability to repeat discredited memes, and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Also, be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor even implied. Any irrelevancies you can mention will also be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous.”
Set aside $150 [two trips are better?]… Done! Strike that, I can use my life-time membership at Ms. Rosie Palm Specialty Services, Inc.
Old car doesn’t look like an option for now. So, for a new van, is the cash option still better?
About refi, just saw Valley Bank 3.54% 30 year APR, no points, $499 total cost refi. Any catch in that?
Jj i got CPO certificate on it.
Moose does not matter. I saved money it has 100k warranty instead of 50k under CPO and got remaining service and warranties to 50k. Services done and history logged on carfax
40 – classic
Juice,
cash price is $750 less; 0% APR has some clause ($16.67 per 1000 loan… I read it as $500 one-time charge for 30k).
JJ
When it says checked is one of the 50 point or something check they do. It does say replaced when they replaced somethi
ng
https://www.iaai.com/auctions/branchlistingview.aspx?branchcode=613
some cheap underwater cars to go with cheap underwater mortgages
https://www.iaai.com/Vehicles/VehicleDetails.aspx?auctionID=12969009&itemID=13956298&RowNumber=0
$25 bucks 2013 Honda CRV
yome – You dropped a quote without context and no opinion of your own.
I goggled it and read the whole article and the conclusion I draw is that smart money does not see a job recovery leading a housing recovery so they are investing in the rental market.
The fact that Blackstone can no longer negotiate bottom feeder prices on short sales and foreclosures is not an indication of a healthy rising housing market, it is an indication that other smart money has joined the game and we will soon have a glut of Pottervilles around the country. The new slums will be the suburbs of middle America.
I’ve bought and sold plenty of used cars/motorcycles via private sales over the past few years. You just sign the back of the title and leave the $$$ amount blank for the buyer. When he registers it, let him put whatever he wants on it. $5, $500, $5000 whatever. I leave it and let it be the buyers problem. You are taxed on the amount you write on the back of the title. All honors system.
Glut of rentals or homes for sale?
McDullard – if you qualified for 0% then congrats only 1 in 10 have the credit. It seems the dealer won’t negotiate the financed price lower since they know you have money. Your mistake, negotiate price first then apply for the loan. It is not easy to do. You should have pulled a JJ and went in with a sob story on how Sandy ruined your home, drowned your dog and and how you need this new minivan to take take your sick and still salty 100 year old mother to the VA for blood transfusions weekly. Point is to catch them off guard, they only want to talk final price deal after then run your credit and find out how much they can bleed you for.
I gave my 4 year old volvo to my daughter ,wrote $1 on the title . Did not pay taxes
“The new slums will be the suburbs of middle America.”
Juice, I think the housing in far away, exotic suburbs will become more desirable in the longer term due to telecommute options, and increasing numbers of partial or fully autonomous cars. Commute won’t be that frequent, and it also won’t suck as much for long distance drivers.
Central NJ and parts of Northern NJ are neither too far nor exotic, so prices may suck.
I got zero percent on my GMC truck I bought my wife.
best deals are on autotrader.com just look for private sales only, pick a car still under warranty, low mileage as new as possible. Run carfax, only buy if it is right from house get it for like 1k-2k above trade in value which is why owner is selling and pay no sales tax. Just transfer your plates yourself.
Used 2013 Volvo XC90 AWD 2.5T 7-Passenger
$35,999 , 29 miles.
For instance this one has been out in NJ for a few weeks fsbo by a guy who won it. Only 29 miles. Bet after few weeks you could get guy down to 33k and pay zero tax. It is a used car as it is titled, but only 29 miles.
Juice Box says:
January 9, 2013 at 10:57 am
McDullard – if you qualified for 0% then congrats only 1 in 10 have the credit. It seems the dealer won’t negotiate the financed price lower since they know you have money. Your mistake, negotiate price first then apply for the loan. It is not easy to do. You should have pulled a JJ and went in with a sob story on how Sandy ruined your home, drowned your dog and and how you need this new minivan to take take your sick and still salty 100 year old mother to the VA for blood transfusions weekly. Point is to catch them off guard, they only want to talk final price deal after then run your credit and find out how much they can bleed you for.
You need to remember foreclosed homes converted to rentals do not compete to present inventory. With for sale inventory decreasing prices goes up
Juice, there is no dealer in the picture. It is still at the stage of “toyota’s current offers on ‘daddy like’ minivans [yuk!]”. Truecar.com has internet prices that the dealers seem to honor.
re # 49 – Brian that might be ok for a clunker worth a 2k however anything the NJ DMV thinks is worth more than 5k will have the NJ Division of Taxation after you for documentation, receipts and affidavits. They have their own documentation unit down in Trenton for this, and the NJ DMV sends them the info on those that try to avoid sales tax.
Point is if you sell your 2010 5 Series for 40k and only claim 10k you will be hearing from them.
JJ the CPO thing is interesting, generally it is a program through the manufacturer. They in general prepare all of the paperwork, do the inspects, etc as it costs very little, but do not actually file with the manufacturer as it costs $, they’ll submit after it’s sold and also it gives them the flexibility to sell for less $ if the buyer doesn’t care about extended warranty.
Jcer
I was looking at a traded bmw same as i bought . It was not CPO, dealer told me they can CPO it for $3500 more.
Jcers the most interesting thing is it costs zero to nothing to shove on carfax that car was a CPO. Some buyers like me buy car and there is actually no CPO.
Interesting part is if I sold it it would appear my BMW was a Certified Pre-Owned BMW as entered by BMW of Greenwich CT. Sounds fancy. Instead it was a auction car my friend picked up for me and we transferred title.
There is also a new program that lets car dealers swap cars. My friend has assess to this. BMW CPOs in paper only all cars. When they swap them out they never un-CPO them. My buddy said even the fake CPO has value as it appears when you sell car it was cpo’d at some point.
JB that is why you use the gift form. I transferred a two year old Jeep Wrangler with 4k miles on it once on a gift form. A 60 year old puerto rician man in Harlem bought it new and dropped dead of a heart attack two months later and his daughter sold it to me. At time I was in my 20s living in Long Island. I was waiting for DMV clerk to say so a random 60 year old Puerto Rician man gave you an almost a new car? heck maybe I was his boy toy none of her business.
You know what else is good to try Leasetrader. You can get some great deals sometimes picking up a lease. First guy paid the ton of paperowork fees you only pick up lease payments. If you dont drive much and cars have used up lots of miles already you get paid to take over lease.
Example would be a 48 month 48K mile lease two years into it with 32K miles. You get remaining 16K. So if you only drive 8K mile a year and you are picking up his lets say 299 month a lease he has to pay you as he used up more than half. So maybe you walk out of there with 1,000 in your pocket that covers first few months lease payments.
re: # 56 – Internet Price? that is just advertising. Car Dealers were made exempt from the Consumer Protection Act in the Dodd /Frank Legislation, it is one of the last last places you can royally screwed out side of the Bunny Ranch and have little recourse. You haven’t stepped foot in a dealership yet, or got stuffed into the finance manager’s small office where they will try and extoll the values of etching the glass and under-body coating. Put on your game face dress as poor as possible and try to act stupid, very, very stupid. Go back more than once and work a final price yourself on the sales floor over a few visits, don’t do a credit check until you are sure you have your best price in hand. You can mention standard APR deal vs CASH. Point is don’t let them think you have the CASH or CREDIT for 0% either, save the extra few $$ they want to screw you for and walk out with the 0% deal if you can.
You will definitely get a letter asking for an explanation and repair receipts if you register car in NJ and report a purchase price too far below NADA values. We had a client get a letter when we dissolved his company and distributed the vehicle to him. We wrote a letter to DMV and he did not have to pay any sales tax.
[20] dope,
This would require board approval, if not negative approval, and the board has the obligation to look out for shareholders. If there is a case to be made, they cannot ignore it. The fact that this is relatively unprecedented, and fries people’s onions (sorry JJ), is of no moment.
And we are all greedy.
re: # 53 – “telecommute options”
We have a living breathing example here on this blog who lives in Key West and telecommutes.
I took the car salesmen business car which had his personal cell phone and once I beat him down with my sob story as a flood victim and got my price then they start to backtrack into registration fees. Of course he goes this is how the dealer, car company does it. Now I have him. BOOM.
I politely say actually I am buying a car off you no dealer and I am tight on cash due to flood and since this car can wash away too I dont need any of this stuff. Guy was nice and said cool.
If he pushed it I would just say I have you full name you told me where you live and gave me your personal number. If I am overcharged on anything as a FEMA flood victim with a FEMA ID number I will contact the FEMA price gouging protection program and have you personally charged with a Felony. I had a jerk from the oil company screw me on my tank installation and I got him to call me on his day off asap and reverse all charges and apologize. Little trick I learned never threaten to sue the company or report the company. Also go after the employee direct. It scares them into submission. It worked for my furnance.
Juice Box says:
January 9, 2013 at 11:20 am
re: # 56 – Internet Price? that is just advertising. Car Dealers were made exempt from the Consumer Protection Act in the Dodd /Frank Legislation, it is one of the last last places you can royally screwed out side of the Bunny Ranch and have little recourse. You haven’t stepped foot in a dealership yet, or got stuffed into the finance manager’s small office where they will try and extoll the values of etching the glass and under-body coating. Put on your game face dress as poor as possible and try to act stupid, very, very stupid. Go back more than once and work a final price yourself on the sales floor over a few visits, don’t do a credit check until you are sure you have your best price in hand. You can mention standard APR deal vs CASH. Point is don’t let them think you have the CASH or CREDIT for 0% either, save the extra few $$ they want to screw you for and walk out with the 0% deal if you can.
Obligatory posting: last person out, please turn out the lights.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/01/more_residents_are_leaving_new.html#incart_river_default
great idea, lets all take 100K income cuts so we can save 10K in taxes by remotely telecommuting.
It is a great theory. but in a lot of jobs telecommuters make a lot less unless you are a rock star with special skills
Juice Box says:
January 9, 2013 at 11:54 am
re: # 53 – “telecommute options”
We have a living breathing example here on this blog who lives in Key West and telecommutes.
#50 – re: “Glut of rentals or homes for sale?”
Yes if and when the Fed decides to relax lending standards again to the fog a mirror standard and ignore the rule of law. A Housing Bubble 2.0 where single family crapshack foreclosures that turned into Pottersville rentals will have a mid six figure sales prices attached to them. We witnessed it last decade when 100 year old central Newark slums with iron bars on the windows had $500k prices attached to them. People have already forgotten those days. It is only a matter of time in my opinion for Bernake or his successor to turn on the easy money spigot and start another bubble in housing.
62
The car I bought in Oct. 2011 came with glass etching whether you wanted it or not. Glass etching is nothing but a dealer scam.
Police Stations due glass etchings for free. I have never paid for a glass etching. Plus why would I want a dealer cutting numbers into my car. Did they do it before you bought it? I guess if it was done before I bought it I would assign a value of zero to the etching and if car had better price counting in etching I would have bought it.
My favorite one to do is to put in contract you will be paid $500 if upon pick up any form of dealer advertising in on you vehicle. Dopes often just throw sticker on car or lecense plate covers with dealer name and you get paid $500 bucks.
Worse guy I knew back in 1980s was a pistol. He would do a used car purchase and night before steal hubcaps off car. Then show up and be like where are hubcaps and get them to knock off like 200 bucks and go home and put on hub caps. That is funny stuff.
POS cape says:
January 9, 2013 at 12:03 pm
62
The car I bought in Oct. 2011 came with glass etching whether you wanted it or not. Glass etching is nothing but a dealer scam.
Tard – Whatever happened to the neighbor who replaced his landscaping on the property line of your house because a branch from your tree fell on it during hurricane Sandy and had the landscaper stuff an invoice in your mailbox? Did you settle or tell them to stuff it?
You’re so dramatic Juice. Anyway, my anecdote (sorta related to your point) for the day is that they are trying to build a bunch of townhouses where I live (54 I think). So the planning board people here were grilling the builder’s representative and a local real estate agent about it. They’re afraid that they won’t be able to sell the units and they’ll just be converted to rentals. One of the people on the board asked what percentage of the housing stock in town was rental. She said it is currently 50 percent. That’s today. Seems like a high number.
48.Juice Box says:
January 9, 2013 at 10:48 am
yome – You dropped a quote without context and no opinion of your own.
I goggled it and read the whole article and the conclusion I draw is that smart money does not see a job recovery leading a housing recovery so they are investing in the rental market.
The fact that Blackstone can no longer negotiate bottom feeder prices on short sales and foreclosures is not an indication of a healthy rising housing market, it is an indication that other smart money has joined the game and we will soon have a glut of Pottervilles around the country. The new slums will be the suburbs of middle America.
#7 Moose – Who told you Realtors order appraisals? Lenders order appraisals.
We are doing the zero percent financing on the CX-9. If we paid all cash, they would have taken another $2,500 off. This was not negotiable and was clearly an incentive from corporate to move the abundance of 2012 9s that they still had in stock. They did a little better than the true car price, but then tried to rape me on the trade. Their computers are back up, so today we tell the financing guy that we don’t want damn thing. I already told him that we’d be very quick as we didn’t want anything. Of course, we will have to go through the ten-minute seminar in the cage. Fun times.
Lib,
Weren’t you trading in the beater of beaters? How much room for screwing was there on said trade-in?
Juice. Neighbor never pursued it any further. I guess she figured it was worth a suckers try and then dropped it.
As for glass etching, I would tell them to scratch it off or refuse the car. In my recent negotiations, the dealer was trying really hard to get $200 more out of me. I got up and said,”I’m leaving, but I bet you won’t let me over $200.” He immediately agreed. Of course, this tells me I could have saved a bit more. Even that was too easy.
When I bought Lightnin’ McQueen, it had a pos stereo in it, but the dumb stereo was listed as an option and of course for like $250. I told the dealer I was immediately removing it and putting in an aftermarket stereo, probably for about $250, only with real speakers and real power. At first he balked at removing it. I finally agreed to give him $50 to leave the antenna in place. He did remove the stereo, but left the four POS speakers. I doubt the antenna, the 4 speakers and the stereo cost Honda more than $10. They still turned a $40 profit on the option. Options are pure bread and butter for the dealers. The only option I got on the 9 was a front power seat, and this was actually free. The heated mirrors, btw, are awesome as we have a tight driveway next to our house to maneuver down. It seems like the car has been frosted every single day this winter.
We are doing the zero percent financing on the CX-9. If we paid all cash, they would have taken another $2,500 off.
So the “zero” percent financing cost you $2,500?
Kept the Civic and traded in the X. The Civic still runs like new and gets nearly 40MPG. They wouldn’t offer anything more than Kars for Kids for it anyway. We didn’t need the truck with the 9 as the seats fold down flat making it really easy to put large krap in the back. You need not remove a thing. The biggest selling point behind the price was the fact that the third row was pretty big and there was still room behind it to fit a stroller/groceries. Couldn’t find that on any of the other midsize SUVs nor was the mileage nearly a good. We get 17/22. The X got 13 on average. Also went FWD not AWD. We’ll drive the Civic when it snows. Best of all is that our insurance only went up $208 per year when adding collision/comprehensive with $1,000 deductible.
That boils down to what, $20k borrowed, 4 years … [scribble on napkin] … 3 – 3.5%?
71
My favorite was when I bought my ’01 Camaro there was a charge for regional advertising for the car. I told them I haven’t seen a Camaro ad in 30 years so take it off, I’m not paying for your Cavalier and Lumina ads.
That’s the case Grim. We almost went the cash option, but didn’t want to be to tight with Gator out of work for a while on maternity leave plus we got those damn daycare payments coming up. I should be able to make up the difference investing the 22K anyhow.
What good is etched glass when your stolen parts are being sold in El Salvador?
Lib,
Hmm. I have an ’05 Saab in storage that I intend to use as trade in for a lease. I was hoping to get at least fair trade in for it at @ dealer. Kars 4 Kids does not sound encouraging at all.
Only time you get a fair trade at a dealer is if you are trading in a busted car and they don’t know about it. If you’ve got something mint and in good shape, you are probably better off selling it on ebay.
grim – did you catch the alex jones piers morgan “debate?” how about his paranoid follow up from his hotel room?
86 – for fun I signed Alex Jones’s petition to have Piers Morgan deported. Obama and the Whitehouse responded to everyone who signed it. I could post it here if anyone’s interested.
you REALLY know how to have fun!!!!
30-yr [70];
Lenders, not agents, may require appraisals, but agents certainly steer who gets the work.
>But, as the Appraisal Institute recently testified to Congress, appraisers are under increasing pressure from lenders, mortgage bankers and real estate agents to “hit their number” when appraising property.< Linky, CNN Money c. 2005
given sandy why would anyone trade in a car. just sell it yourself. As long as it is not a complete troublemaking car.
The damm destination charge to me is a huge rip off. What other places charges customer for cost to get inventory to store as an add on cost.
i just tried to post the links to both parts and the post rant but got kaiboshed
you should watch it
POS Cape [70];
The car I bought in Oct. 2011 came with glass etching whether you wanted it or not. Glass etching is nothing but a dealer scam.
You’re right its a scam. I don’t care what dealer options it “came with”. If the dealer expects to get my money for the car, I value that option at $0, and bid on the package accordingly.
part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uymMI_omik
Dealers work the “four box”
They have four boxes to make money
Box 1 Selling Car (includes options, registration all that bs)
Box 2 Financing Car
Box 3 Trade in ‘
Box 4 Extended Warranty
Trick is to keep them in Box 1 but make them believe you want stuff in other boxes.
Easier said then done. I find it best when in room with sales manager to ask them about their kids, how they like the job, how is weather anything but the car. Eventually they see other customers and throw you out.
zieba says:
January 9, 2013 at 12:54 pm
Lib,
Hmm. I have an ’05 Saab in storage that I intend to use as trade in for a lease. I was hoping to get at least fair trade in for it at @ dealer. Kars 4 Kids does not sound encouraging at all.
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5myV_-2XjI
the post rant – featuring “bloomberg is mafia who trades white slaves”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=v0sE9hAXXB4
88 –
if you get 25k signatures within a certain amount of time the Whitehouse promises to respond to the petition. I wanted to hear from Obama what his position on gun control was.
Yes, that is generally the case when they include shipping, delivery or financing. Ordered a bed to be delivered to my place after negotiating price. Guy tells me that shipping is free. I then ask “well how much is the bed if I don’t get shipping free?” Wife starts laughing histerically and guy says, “hang on lemme check” and comes back and says bed is 50$ cheaper if you don’t get free shipping. Tied the bed to the roof, drove slow, and home in 30 minutes.
Same goes for 0% financing. No such thing. There is a true “time value of money” tied up in the financing. If you get a 3 year auto loan then check the current rates for 3 year loans, run that against loan value and interest lost pops out. Thats how much money they are “giving” you when they quote you 0% financing. I say give because thats how they would like you to see it, when in reality it is baked into the sale price. It isn’t rocket science to determine the value of 0% financing.
Once you determine the interest then back that back out of the sales price, or as close as you can get them to move on price.
As recommended by another post, I would do this after I negotiate the price of the car and before I give them access to credit reports. This *should* require several trips to the different dealers playing them against one another. You should get so good at talking to dealers that you could call them up on the phone and ask if the vehicle you want with a specific tech package is available in a single unhesitating breath. You should sound like another dealer. Once price is negotiated then you move on to financing and begin talking about financing offers. If they start the conversation about financing before hand and try to convolve those with the purchase price then become disinterested and go back to talking about price and options letting them know you can talk about financing later, whisper discretely “your boring the wife” or something to that effect that chases him off. Once I had to just leave a sales guy as they kept trying this “here is what your payment would look like” garbage and I couldn’t get him to stop wasting time running calculations without telling him I was just going to write a check for the whole thing at the end.
Let them know you are weiging options and would like to know what they had with repect to financing. Once you see the offers then make the counter-offer to forgo 0% or reduced rate financing for further discount on the car. Calculate the discount from the interest they would have lost from standard rates before hand.
They usually knock off a good chunk.
Good luck and remember that nothing is free.
moose (31)-
Nice to see you’ve taken up crack smoking again.
“Everyone is greedy. Difference here is that AIG didn’t hand pick their negotiating partner on the other side of the table like the public unions do.”
moose will always carry water for banksters and insolvent corporations.
What can buyer and seller do?
SIMPLE – sell based on perceived supply & demand
Another BS article propping up this housing market pig (for slaughter).
Red Head
Piers O’Meara is laughing all the way to the bank. He has made north of $20 million by pretending to be an English A-Hole in America. His accent is all wrong, it’s exaggerated and he is of Irish decent, so the Queen will never knight him. CNN will replace him soon enough since he does not have the celeb draw that Larry King did and he has to resort to fringe lunatics and their rantings for ratings.
56 dullard
Use the TrueCar as your starting point. You should be able to get price a few % pts below that number.
Time comes – head fake a trade in. The dealer will lower price on vehicle thinking that trade in will be yet below your discount on new vehicle. Avoid topic of financing until price – per prior comment.
Good luck.
Moose #89 – Please inform yourself about the process before addressing me again. You insult my intelligence.
Email every dealer’s internet contact within 100 miles and tell them exactly what car you want inc options and ask for their best “out the door” price with a breakdown on the fees, tax, title. Tell them you are buying a car within the next 2 weeks. Do not mention whether you’re financing with them or not.
Fill out a spreadsheet with the car price, fees, taxes, etc. Once you get the lowest price, go back to everyone else and ask if they can beat it. Eventually you will get to the point where they’re bled dry and can go no lower. The spreadsheet will help you evaluate whether someone’s fees are out of line. You then play the three best deals against each other for the value of your trade and the financing.
Glass etching is a fake fee used to recoup some of the money dealers loose by trying to undercut their competition.
Do not underestimate the power you have over the dealer on their dealer surveys. They get extra manufacturer incentives ie money the more perfect scores they get.
Penfed mortgage is hovering at 3.25 with no points for 30 year fixed but it was down to 3.125 for a couple days. We’re military connected but you don’t have to be in the military to join. I’ve never gotten a mort with them so can’t vouch for their service.
I for fun when car shopping used multiple techniques. One guy I told he has five minutes to sell me a car. Then goes you want a test drove I go no. You go four minutes. Then he goes I will need to talk to manager. I go straight to manager go you got three minutes to sell me a car. So we go through board quick he gets to car I want and gives me price I want I look down at watch and go Damm we are at minute six you are too late and walk out. I was still mooching a car so I had another week or two. Funny stuff
30-yr [104];
What could I have been thinking? Besmirch a reputation so fine, upstanding and unblemished as that of the practitioners of the real estate sales facilitation trade? Perish the mere thought.
Maybe we can talk more when you’re done swooning, Scarlet.
Screw the Honda get thee 470-hp, 465-lb-ft V8 Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT
Edmunds has dealer price quote. Multiple dealers on your area will compete for your business
107 –
Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data, ability to repeat discredited memes, and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Also, be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor even implied. Any irrelevancies you can mention will also be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous.
When the dealer asked me the financing question I said I could afford to pay it in cash depending on how low the final price was. Am currently at the dealer in the finance room. I have already set the banner app on my iPod touch to say, “no!”
If using Truecar/edmunds, make sure you use a junk email address and a fake phone number. When you get the email, simply claim that you will only communicate via email. It worked fine for me. The first time I used Truecar, the calls and emails were endless.
For what it’s worth, I knew the sale price on the CX-9 was good when they started their offer on the trade 2500 below KBB.
96 –
Thanks for sharing Seif. I think I am against gun control now.
Best car buying experience was Land Rover Paramus, second best was Roxbury BMW (caveat below).
I have no patience for the idiots who roam the floors of the typical Honda dealership, nor the greaseball with the top 4 buttons of his shirt open in the “finance room”.
Was disappointed when I went back to Roxbury to talk to the person I had worked with before, only to find out she’d gone, after about 30 minutes with the goon I sat down with, I’d just about had it. After about his 5th trip to talk to the sales manager, I told them they could go screw and walked out.
I would prefer to transact entirely online for a car. A friend of mine had used one of those services a few years back and they actually delivered the car to his house. That’s my kind of sales experience.
I’m sure if I ever walked into anywhere on Rt 22, you’d hear of a mass killing.
My best experience was at Ramsey Nissan in Saddle River. After about an hour of negotiating and settling on a price which included the trade in of my car, when it came time to sign the papers there’s a $1000.00 prep fee added to the price. When I questioned it I was told that’s for there service people to clean it up and inspect it. The vehicle was only a year old! The sh*t heads would not budge on it either. Just a scam to get people into the dealership
They must procure these jokers from the same place mattress salesmen are spawned.
Landover come year end in early December, sells all their loaner and demos cheap. You can get a 2012 Demo of the base landrover right now for like 31k around the price of a stripped to the bones 2013 Ford Edge. I almost bought one but no dealers near me. They are good for showing off and still not breaking the bank.
Landrover folks would never take a loaner 2012 in 2013 so around December they sell them all. When you try to move around 12 loaner cars between Thanksgiving and New Years each year you have to be aggressive in price cuts.
Thanks everyone for the advice.
Redhead, I have a 1996 Corolla, so I presume I shouldn’t advertise the year and instead say something like “a slightly older Toyota”? I can push the Corolla for another year or more in the worst case. I will keep my mouth shut vs explaining my life story to the salesman.
Stu, I will briefly pick your brain when we meet… I got screwed by entering in a phone number on a loan site — thankfully, it is a different line, so I can easily ignore calls on that. The guys called me within 2 minutes of entering the phone number, and web pages started serving me ads of mortgages!
Ottoman, Valley has a 499 all costs included refi, at 2.94% for 15 year, and 3.54 for 30 year. A big cut with relatively negligible costs… Penfed has 1% origination + title insurance and appraisal, so it will be a bigger upfront cost, but seems to be a better deal than Valley. I presume First Valley Funding also may have a reasonable APR.
Back from the dealer. Wanted $199 for the etch. Denied it (0f course), after Gator pointed it out (I missed it on the bill). Also went for 2.49% finance instead of the zero% which took another $2,500 off. Though, will pay $1300 in interest over the life of the loan. So our final cost with tax, title, destination and doc, complete out of pocket, was $25,181 + $1,300 interest on the loan. Pretty sweet! Finance guy did not hard sell anything. I think we pissed him off when I presented him the $500 Motozuma certificate. I did the Motozuma thing in case we bought a Hyundai which would have saved us ad extra $500. It probably took him 30 minutes to process the funds transfer. After wasting all that time, I think he realized that I was definitely saying, “no!” It might have helped that our newborn dropped a deuce while we were waiting and it was a pretty small glass cage. Note to JJ, bring a diapered child with you.
As to selling the Xterra on Ebay…it had a big hole in the rear bumper, a dent in the rear hatch and a stream of dried chocolate soy milk from 2008, clear across the entire width of the cloth ceiling of the interior of the back row. Would have been a tough sell. Also didn’t help that car got like 13mpg. When gas was closer to $2 per gallon when we brought the X, it wasn’t a big deal. Today, it would be a much harder sell.
Otto,
Went that route when buying my Civic. It does work and you really get a super price, unfortunately, it takes a lot of time, plus I had to drive 90 minutes down to Marlton to eventually pick up the car from the cheapest dealer.
Oh, Maxon throws in free oil changes for the first year. When the salesperson promised me that in the negotiations, I told him it has a value of $72 at best for me. Hes stopped saying stupid things after that. I can only imagine how many people get ripped off by these crooks.
LandRover’s are by far, the dumbest, keeping up with Jones’ car you could purchase. They are way overpriced and absolutely fall apart. And they are not cheap to repair. Better off buying a used postal truck. And when was the last time you had to drive over a pile of boulders on the BQE?
Play Hardball. I use bullets. But I get suckered when I bring wife or kids. Worse was truck purchase, wife and three kids with me and nighbors happened to be within ear shot and wife really wanted car. It sucked I got some off but not much leverage.
My best was Mercedes Benz Rally Motors fight. The dealer had two guys come out and although I never cursed I was standing my ground. Then when I was last customer in showroom they were dropping F bombs at me and threatening my life. I think when I said it is legal to park in front of your dealership and I was going to get there early each day park can with sign on roof Rally Motors are crooks it struck a nerve.
So I leave and I have not won. Damm Mercedes, so that night I am throwing down Beers telling my story and buddy goes Mercedes Benz NA Headquarters is in NJ and my friend is C-level there!!!! He goes lets fix those idiots. So the next week his buddy sends Mercedes Benz’s Internal Audit dept out there for a suprise audit of dealership. Gives him two sets of butt holes and tells him it was I who kicked it off and to make me happy or he is coming back every year.
I go back I get what I want and the damm jerk is yelling at me again. Wouldnt even give me the free coffee.
Guy goes to me if you did not get your way how far was you going? I go until you, Mercedes Benz and me are all bankrupt. I am going all the way. Then he just yells get out.
Now that is how you win. I took the coffee anyway as coffee is for closers.
Libtard at home says:
January 9, 2013 at 4:44 pm
Back from the dealer. Wanted $199 for the etch. Denied it (0f course), after Gator pointed it out (I missed it on the bill). Also went for 2.49% finance instead of the zero% which took another $2,500 off. Though, will pay $1300 in interest over the life of the loan. So our final cost with tax, title, destination and doc, complete out of pocket, was $25,181 + $1,300 interest on the loan. Pretty sweet! Finance guy did not hard sell anything. I think we pissed him off when I presented him the $500 Motozuma certificate. I did the Motozuma thing in case we bought a Hyundai which would have saved us ad extra $500. It probably took him 30 minutes to process the funds transfer. After wasting all that time, I think he realized that I was definitely saying, “no!” It might have helped that our newborn dropped a deuce while we were waiting and it was a pretty small glass cage. Note to JJ, bring a diapered child with you.
As to selling the Xterra on Ebay…it had a big hole in the rear bumper, a dent in the rear hatch and a stream of dried chocolate soy milk from 2008, clear across the entire width of the cloth ceiling of the interior of the back row. Would have been a tough sell. Also didn’t help that car got like 13mpg. When gas was closer to $2 per gallon when we brought the X, it wasn’t a big deal. Today, it would be a much harder sell.
Tard – if you dropped a deuce while waiting for the Finance Manager to print out all the paperwork for you to sign that would have been priceless.
There are lots of boulders on the BQE, I guess you dont get out much
Libtard at home says:
January 9, 2013 at 4:53 pm
LandRover’s are by far, the dumbest, keeping up with Jones’ car you could purchase. They are way overpriced and absolutely fall apart. And they are not cheap to repair. Better off buying a used postal truck. And when was the last time you had to drive over a pile of boulders on the BQE?
Air conditioned bumper, Ergonomic designed rear hatch and custom designed organic moca colored mural on rear ceiling.
It is ebay. It is all about the ad.
As to selling the Xterra on Ebay…it had a big hole in the rear bumper, a dent in the rear hatch and a stream of dried chocolate soy milk from 2008, clear across the entire width of the cloth ceiling of the interior of the back row. Would have been a tough sell. Also didn’t help that car got like 13mpg. When gas was closer to $2 per gallon when we brought the X, it wasn’t a big deal. Today, it would be a much harder sell.
Gator does not say a word at the dealers. I told her the worst thing you could say in the presence of a salesman is that you like the car. When we bought the Xterra, which was completely different from the Pilot we were after, it was funny watching Gator try to tell me she liked it, without telling me she liked it. I think she said, “I don’t really like it, but I’ve seen worse.” That was the buy signal, believe it or not. I would have saved another $1,000 if she was willing to buy one in taxi yellow, but she spoke loudly against it. Could have gotten a great deal on a Sunkist Orange Element which was also nixed without even looking at it. I’ll drive anything in any color if the price is right. Salespeople hate me.
JJ. You wouldn’t be lying. It was organic soy milk.
I had a Hummer for a while. I do miss it when I feel then need to ford over a creek or a barrel over a nice deep snow drift. When I had it I made it a point to off-road as much as possible. Heck I even used it to cross over from the local lanes to the express lanes on the Parkway and Rt 78. I was a real off-road driver back then.
I have driven a few Range Rovers. I usually rent one every time I go to Ireland since it is the only vehicle you can rent that you sit high enough to see over the stone walls. Every time I rented one it broke down, dead battery, bad starter, electrical problems. The newer LR2 looks cheap, and the Sport looks over priced and the newer Range Rover looks even way more overpriced.
Renting English Cars in Ireland? The Irish Mechanics sabatoge them.
Juice Box says:
January 9, 2013 at 5:11 pm
I had a Hummer for a while. I do miss it when I feel then need to ford over a creek or a barrel over a nice deep snow drift. When I had it I made it a point to off-road as much as possible. Heck I even used it to cross over from the local lanes to the express lanes on the Parkway and Rt 78. I was a real off-road driver back then.
I have driven a few Range Rovers. I usually rent one every time I go to Ireland since it is the only vehicle you can rent that you sit high enough to see over the stone walls. Every time I rented one it broke down, dead battery, bad starter, electrical problems. The newer LR2 looks cheap, and the Sport looks over priced and the newer Range Rover looks even way more overpriced.
#119: As long as you are refinancing $100K or more, you can probably get this Valley deal. I only had $83K balance so they wanted me to take out $17K cash-out and they would give me $899 costs.
I’m only interested in armored personnel carriers.
I only shopped at LR because my father won’t deal with car dealers period, so he sent me. Sales manager heard me say I was hungry and called next door to hooters and had a waitress bring us over some wings.
The end of the world is nigh (parental advice edition)
http://m.mtv.com/videos/video.rbml?id=mgid:uma:video:mtv.com:870419&hp=ts-5
The End Is Nigh (Freedy Edition II):
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-09/obama-s-81-support-in-new-york-city-is-best-in-114-years.html
Yes, I was weary of shopping a ghetto dealer. Especially after some absolutely horrible experiences in the past at Hillside and at Lynne’s in Bloomfield. Equally, I find some of the rural dealers less likely to negotiate. Online is definitely the way to go now on, but many won’t even quote you prices on line or over the phone. Many have automated quotes that are pretty much the MSRP.
By the way, just heard from Gator that one of her cousins, also in the market for the Mazda 5 bought a CX-9. He got the Touring, not the Sport, but paid way, way more than I did for essentially AWD, heated 2nd row seats and power front row seats (of which I got the drivers seat powered for no charge). I think he paid like $5,000 more than me. I find heated seats leaves me with swamp-ass.
I think we’ve seen the United Van Lines survey showing that NJ had more outflow than inflow for at least 7 years straight at this point. My question is, why don’t we see it in the population estimates?
NJ Population
1990 – 7,730,188
2000 – 8,414,350
2010 – 8,791,894
2011 – 8,821,155 (est)
[137] grim,
A rather inexact tool. A better tool is the IRS SOI’s survey of tax filings. That confirmed other agency estimates of population shift.
The data confirmed census data that showed shifts south and west and did so a lot more frequently than the decennial census. But that proved uncomfortable for Midwest and northeast governors, just as the census did but 5 times more often. Well, you can’t kill off the census but an IRS report isn’t constitutionally mandated. So this year, IRS issued a single announcement to say that they won’t compile and release this data anymore.
Lib,
The Element was a great car! Suicide second row doors and all. It was a polarizing design for sure, and the below picture doesn’t do it justice, but it was not a bad looker. Utilitarian as all get out too.
http://www.autoweek.com/storyimage/CW/20101203/FREE/101209955/AR/0/Honda-Element.jpg
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