From Bloomberg:
December home sales probably highest in 3 years
Sales of U.S. homes probably rose in December to the highest level in three years as the industry headed toward a more rooted recovery in 2013, economists said before reports this week.
Combined purchases of new and existing properties climbed to a 5.49 million annual rate last month, the highest level since November 2009, according to the median forecast of economists surveyed by Bloomberg News.
Another report may show the outlook for growth brightened last month.Historically low mortgage rates, an improving job market and an increasing number of households will probably keep spurring demand for housing this year. The rebound comes as political wrangling in Washington over federal-spending cuts and the debt begins to shake consumer confidence, raising the risk that the world’s largest economy will suffer.
“The housing market is coming back, gaining momentum, and it’s one of the bright spots for the economy as we start 2013,” said Robert Dye, chief economist at Comerica Inc. in Dallas.
Purchases of previously owned homes climbed to a 5.1 million annual rate in December, the strongest since November 2009, economists project National Association of Realtors figures will show Tuesday. New-home sales picked up to a 385,000 annual rate for the month, the best showing since April 2010, according to the survey median ahead of a Friday Commerce Department report.
The combined reading would be the strongest since a government tax credit for first-time buyers first expired three years ago. It would the second-highest since August 2007, four months before the last recession began.
ahhhh another balmy day in the Garden State. Thank G-d for central heat.
From HousingWire:
Housing recovery will surge short term, but hurdles remain
With existing home sales and property construction picking up over the past three years, all the positive momentum in housing is expected to continue, but headwinds still loom.
Consistently low interest rates and falling home prices will continue to spur demand for properties among investors, RealtyTrac vice president Daren Blomquist told HousingWire.
“I think that the momentum will continue and we will see positive news on the housing front going forward,” he added.
The housing market will post various sector results this week including existing home sales, the Federal Housing Finance Agency house price index and new homes sales. All results are expected to show continued positive trends.
Existing home sales surged 5.9% in November to a 5.04 million annual rate, following a 1.5% rate in October. Also, the FHFA purchase only house price index gained 0.5% in October after remaining virtually unchanged in September.
New home sales also showed strength in November with sales up 4.4% to an annual rate of 377,000, hitting a two-year high. New homes sales, which started in 2012 at 340,000, have slowly been building up.
However, headwinds do remain for the industry including a backlog of delayed foreclosures, high delinquency levels and an elevated shadow inventory.
I spent last weekend in Darien. I was reminded by my uncle that he’d spent 40 years in his home which began as a modest ranch on a quiet street just down the road from the Country Club. Over the years he’s added another story and a second building on the property that he uses as a wood shop. Over the years and the changes made to the home he now sits on a property worth….who knows.
Over the years his mantra has been to avoid financing anything. If he didn’t have the cash he didn’t buy it. Regarding taxes, He’s most annoyed that the rate for inheritance went from $3m to $1.5 or some number he mentioned. As a model of how one accumulates wealth he is a good one. Same property for a long time. Which is almost a requirement it seems to make any money from a sale in this market. Avoidance of financed debt. A steely gaze and a built-in bullsh*t detector.
Wages contract, taxes rise. Handouts to the shiftless and keys to the bank handed to the wealthy and connected.
Methinks we’ll either turn into a zombie Eurostate or the tree will be refreshed by blood.
Good Morning New Jersey
3 – I think the criticism you’ll largely hear will revolve around the fact that it is no longer possible for one to buy “the modest ranch down the street from the country club.”
That modest ranch costs $750k, and you’ll be lucky to afford to replace the toilet after you buy it. And by the way, that owner? He didn’t touch the place since 1963.
His success was largely the result of chance … he didn’t drive it, he went along for the ride.
From the Star Ledger:
Home values were up over last year, but not by much in New Jersey
Home values in New Jersey inched upward last year by 0.7 percent, according to a Zillow report released today, but remained far behind the 5.9 percent growth recorded nationwide.
The overall trend showed continued good news for the housing market, which has seen home values drop for five straight years. Zillow projects the recovery to continue in 2013, but at a more sustainable 3.3. percent. Traditionally, real estate growth in healthy markets is 3 percent.
“Things are looking better than they have in a long time,” said Zillow Chief Economist Stan Humphries.
…
Bergen, Essex and Morris were the best performing New Jersey counties with homes worth 2.2 percent more last year than in 2011, according to Zillow. Homes in Monmouth County were up 1.3 percent.
But only Hudson and Monmouth counties will see home values increase by the end of this year. Morris can expect a 1.2 percent decline.
Despite Hurricane Sandy, Ocean County will see a minimal drop, Zillow projected.
…
Essex, Bergen, Hunterdon, Middlesex, Passaic and Sussex counties, all of which are in included in the Zillow survey, will see home values drop.
Newark home values fell 0.8 percent last year, and are projected to see another 1.2 percent drop this year.
Jersey City, meanwhile, saw values rise 9 percent in 2012 and can expect them to climb 1.2 percent. Hudson County can also expect to see an increase of just under 1 percent.
(is it just me, or is anyone else having trouble following the town by town stats and predictions?)
From the WSJ:
The Year Everyone Was Wrong (Again) About Home Prices
The great thing about predictions is that, after some time has passed, it’s possible to see which ones were right, and which ones weren’t.
For several years, economists and housing analysts have predicted a housing bottom, but few forecasts at the beginning of 2012 foresaw the magnitude of the rebound that the housing sector enjoyed last year. Quarterly surveys by real-estate website Zillow Inc. Z +2.82% and Pulsenomics LLC poll around 100 economists and other housing analysts on their predictions about where home prices are headed.
So how’d they do last year?
Looking back at the survey from December 2011 shows that around 42 panelists, of the 94 that made their predictions public, saw prices declining on a year-over-year basis in 2012. The other 52 said prices would either rise or remain flat in 2012. Panelists base their home-price estimates on what they expect the Standard & Poor’s/Case-Shiller 20-city index to show.
Even the most bullish respondent in the late 2011 survey may have understated the actual 2012 home price gain, which won’t be tabulated and released by Standard & Poor’s until late February. Constance Hunter, the deputy chief investment officer of AXA Investment Managers, called for a 4.4% gain. In October, the Case-Shiller 20-city index stood 4.3% above last year’s level. (By March, Ms. Hunter revised down her forecast, calling for a gain of just 1.7% for 2012).
Four other respondents predicted annual gains of at least 3% for 2012: James Smith of Parsec Financial Management; Brian Wesbury and Robert Stein of First Trust Advisors; Bill Cheney of John Hancock Financial; and Andrea Heuson of the University of Miami.
The most bearish forecast came from John Brynjolfsson, chief investment officer of Armored Wolf, who predicted declines of 10% in 2012. Gary Shilling, the former chief economist at Merrill Lynch who now runs his own economic consulting firm, predicted an 8% drop. Barry Ritholtz, the chief executive of Fusion IQ and financial blogger, and Mark Hanson, a housing consultant based in Menlo Park, Calif., predicted declines of 5% and 7%, respectively.
So what are analysts predicting for 2013?
The vast majority of more than 100 housing economists and analysts predicted in this past December’s survey that home prices will increase this year, with a median forecast of a 3% gain in 2013. The median forecast also calls for prices to rise by 23% through 2017.
Of some 96 panelists that made their predictions public, only seven believe that home prices will decline this year, and only four believe that prices will decline by more than 1%.
The most optimistic 2013 forecast came from Joel Naroff, president of Naroff Economic Advisors. He predicts a 7.2% gain for 2013 and a forecast that will see prices 39% above current levels by 2017.
The most bearish of the group is still Mr. Shilling, who predicts that prices will fall by 6%, erasing all of the gains of 2012. Mr. Shilling is forecasting additional declines through 2016 and predicts that prices will be nearly 12% below current levels by 2017.
Messrs. Ritholtz and Hanson also forecasted declines of 2% and 4%, respectively, for 2013. Both forecasters also expect that 2012 home prices will end the year up by between 2% and 3% from one year ago, even though home prices through October were already up by nearly 7% from the beginning of the year.
Grim [6];
Point being >HE< got rich buying a cheap property and owning it for 30 years while wealth moved in around him. The next guy? Like the performer who sets himself on fire: great act, but he can only do it once…
From Time:
What Ever Happened to the Big, Bad “Shadow Inventory” of Homes?
One of the great economic success stories of 2012 was that the housing market finally found a bottom, and even began to show signs of a nascent recovery. But even as positive data on the real estate market began to trickle in early last year, not everyone was convinced. The main reason for skepticism were millions of homes that had not yet hit the market, but probably would soon — either because they were already in foreclosure or because the homeowners were so far behind on payments that foreclosures were imminent. These properties, which last year were estimated to range anywhere from 3 million to 10 million in number, were dubbed the “shadow inventory” of homes.
Kurt Eichenwald – apparently he’s a conservative who went on a 25 tweet rant:
(reposted from wknd)
25. AND FINALLY: U cant believe every word Fox, Rush & Co. say when they proved they lie 2 you with the “Romney will win in a landslide” con
24. U cannot cite Bible to support ur policy beliefs if u havent REALLY read it. If u did, ud find opposing illegal immigration is a sin.
23. If u believe Bible is absolute truth, u don’t get to pick & choose which sins bother u. U shuold rage about tattoos as much as about gays.
22. You cannot use the Bible to condemn other people. If u believe in God, judgment aint up to you. Plank in the eye, remember?
21. The fact that a president does something you don’t like isn’t grounds for impeachment. Neither is getting a BJ.
20. Saying it politicizes tragedy 2 try 2 stop slaughters of kids is immoral. Did Bush “politicize” 9/11 by trying 2 stop next qaeda attack?
19. The dissipation of the frothing over Benghazi proves it was just a despicable GOP attempt to politicize a tragedy pre-election
18. Any political group that believes government staged the Newtown slaughter is crazy, beneath contempt and unworthy of being Americans.
17. My neighbor was locked up in a FEMA concentration camp. Oh, wait – thats a paranoid delusion from another idiot looking for ur money.
16. A death panel came to my house and dragged away my mother. Oh wait – that idea is just a paranoid delusion advanced by an idiot.
15. Saying Obama isnt American makes u stupid. His mother is American. Even if he was born on Mars, under the law, he is a citizen.
14. You cant proclaim America is the greatest country in the world unless u can tell me one fact about another country. Or travel to others.
13. Numbers do not have a liberal bias. The policies of GWBush resulted in $5.7T in new debt. Policies of Obama: $1.5T. Check the CBO data.
12. If you keep arguing and believe that knives/hammers etc. are more dangerous than guns, trade in your guns for knives and hammers.
11. If you think US troops will join you in your attempt to overthrow Constitutional government, you don’t need any guns of your own.
10. If ur armed to fight government “tyranny” when things in our constitutional system dont go ur way, ur planning to kill US troops. Or…
9. No one wants 2 disarm you. And notice – whenever the NRA & Co. says govnt is coming 4 ur guns, they also hit u up for money. It’s a scam.
8. No one can claim to love the USA while purchasing books that declare those who disagree with you are evil.
8. No one can claim to love the USA and then say person elected as prez through our constitutional system “isn’t my president.”
7. No one can claim to love the USA and hate the majority of the people in it.
6. Trying to blackmail the adults in government to adopt ur policies by threatening the economic survival of the USA is not statesmanship.
5. The GOP message in ’12 was loud and clear. It’s not that voters didn’t hear it. They rejected it. And poor people have the right to vote.
4. Saying that getting guns should be easy and being able to vote should be hard means you hate the Constitution and Democracy.
3. Voter fraud is not the cause of GOP losses, anymore than “the ref cheated” causes 7th grade soccer losses.
2. Obama didn’t win the election because four million illegal aliens voted for him. No such person would risk discovery to vote.
1. ACORN didn’t steal the 2012 election. The organization did not exist.
Sx [1];
Thank G-d for central heat.
Right on. There’s so many more poor people in the world that if all of them shiver in the cold we can prevent global wa… uh… climate change.
The Loving, Tolerant Left
The Loving, Tolerant Left
Republican Nazi pigs do not impose your shit Christian lifestyles at my children. I personally pray someone with a bushmaster goes into your place and opens fire and many die. That is my wish.. Pigs, Pigs Pigs. Did your mama have any children who lived? You all need to crawl, back into that nasty space you all dripped out of from some B—ach’es Vaginata/ Pigs, all of you Southern inbred creeps. Burn in hell and quit asking for money in the name of Jesus and God. You are the epitome of everything that is not American. I hope you and all your children die along with you.
I love it when they squeal “HAVE YOU NO DECENCY?!?”, because they don’t.
The Loving, Tolerant Left
Republican Na[x]i pigs do not impose your sh!t Christian lifestyles at my children. I personally pray someone with a bushmaster goes into your place and opens fire and many d!e. That is my wish.. Pigs, Pigs Pigs. Did your mama have any children who lived? You all need to crawl, back into that nasty space you all dripped out of from some B—ach’es Vag!nata/ Pigs, all of you Southern inbred creeps. Burn in he11 and quit asking for money in the name of Jesus and God. You are the epitome of everything that is not American. I hope you and all your children d!e along with you.
I love it when they squeal “HAVE YOU NO DECENCY?!?”, because they don’t.
Moose, looks like fundamentalist writing. I think what you would find is that many Republicans and Democrats, the ones that are NOT on the extremes of those positions, are actually not that far in disagreement. It’s the extreme right, extreme left, fundamentalist religion ones that have the most issues. Most people in the middle could probably work well together.
Sx 1, I have central heat also, a centrally located wood stove. It backs up my “real”central heat. There is labor involved, but swinging an axe is good exercise. Nice warm house, keeps a pot of coffee warm, power outages don’t affect it. And thanks to Sandy, 3 -4 years of free heat now sitting in the backyard.
#16 AMEN
#15
I burned almost a third of a cord yesterday (burned for 16 hours or so). Masonry fireplace is a poor substitute for a nice cast iron stove. Fireplace looks nice, a stove heats nice. Full open flue and a leaky old house, thing burns through logs like a jet engine.
If anyone needs seasoned wood, give me a shout, I think I’ve got 2-3 cords of unsplit oak, maple, and honey locust. This isn’t sandy lumber, this was cut and stacked a year and a half ago. At this point I’m burning it to get rid of it, if someone can use it for heat, feel free.
I’m on the fence about putting in a cast iron stove insert or just converting it to a gas fireplace for show. I’m sure the insert is going to set me back 2 or 3 grand once I factor in a liner. I could do the gas for a few hundred bucks. Since I don’t have a good source of wood, it just makes more sense to put the money towards a good condensing boiler.
“In the end, more than freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all – security, comfort, and freedom. When the Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society to give to them, when the freedom they wished for most was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free and was never free again.”
― Edward Gibbon
Do us all a favor and deactivate your carbon monoxide detectors.
Essex says:
January 22, 2013 at 7:08 am
ahhhh another balmy day in the Garden State. Thank G-d for central heat.
7 –
I kind of wanted to read the report in more detail to understand the basis for their predictions going forward. I don’t see the fourth quarter report on their website though. Were you able to find it?
http://www.zillow.com/blog/research/data/
Grim,
Swung the splitting mail a little this morning. Great exercise and the wood splits like butter.
Wood I split was from the Frankenstorm in 2011. Still have a few 2011 logs left.
Also landlord’s kid dropped off a 1/4 cord of split poplar a few weeks ago (free!).
I have about a 1/4 cord left. No worries tho, landlord said I could help myself to any windfall on his timbered lots. I just can’t cut down any trees (Act 319 land).
Grim this is what I dream of
http://www.vermontwoodstove.com/
I’ve always been a fan of the Vermont Castings catalytic stoves (yes, they use a catalytic converter to create a cleaner burn).
Wood burning furnaces were gaining in popularity for a while in Sussex County. My guess is this is in areas where there was no natural gas infrastructure….they were likely driven by the ever increasing price of home heating oil. They actually banned them in my town. There were concerns about the amount of smoke they give off.
Stoves or wood-fired boilers? I’d heard something about wood fired boilers being restricted, but not stoves. I believe new stoves need to meet EPA standards with regards to particulate pollution (I really have no idea though, I’m sure there are plenty that don’t).
Pain,
The cooking accessories section from your link is really cool.
27 –
Not stoves. Wood fired boilers I think.
From MarketWatch:
10:00a
Inventories represent 4.4 months of supply 10:00a
Inventories decline 8.5% to 1.82 million units 10:00a
Median price up 11.5% yr-on-yr to $180,800 10:00a
Home sales up 12.8% from prior year 10:00a
Existing-homes sales below 5.1 mln Wall St view 10:00a
Dec. existing-home sales down 1% to 4.94 mln
From the NAR:
Existing-Home Sales Slip in December, Prices Continue to Rise; 2012 Totals Up
Existing-home sales eased in December but are well above a year ago, while limited inventory maintained the upward momentum in home prices, according to the National Association of Realtors®. Total sales in 2012 were the highest in five years, while the annual price rose the most since 2005.
Total existing-home sales1, which are completed transactions that include single-family homes, townhomes, condominiums and co-ops, declined 1.0 percent to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 4.94 million in December from a downwardly revised 4.99 million in November, but are 12.8 percent above the 4.38 million-unit level in December 2011.
The preliminary annual total for existing-home sales in 2012 was 4.65 million, up 9.2 percent from 4.26 million in 2011. It was the highest volume since 2007 when it reached 5.03 million and the strongest increase since 2004.
…
Total housing inventory at the end of December fell 8.5 percent to 1.82 million existing homes available for sale, which represents a 4.4-month supply 2 at the current sales pace, down from 4.8 months in November, and is the lowest housing supply since May of 2005 when it was 4.3 months, which was near the peak of the housing boom.
Listed inventory is 21.6 percent below a year ago when there was a 6.4-month supply. Raw unsold inventory is at the lowest level since January 2001 when there were 1.78 million homes on the market.
The national median existing-home price3 for all housing types was $180,800 in December, which is 11.5 percent above December 2011. This is the 10th consecutive month of year-over-year price gains, which last occurred from August 2005 to May 2006, and is the strongest increase since November 2005 when it jumped 12.9 percent.
For all of 2012, the preliminary median existing-home price was $176,600, up 6.3 percent from $166,100 in 2011, and was the strongest annual price gain since 2005 when the median price rose 12.4 percent.
Distressed homes4 – foreclosures and short sales – accounted for 24 percent of December sales (12 percent were foreclosures and 12 percent were short sales), up from 22 percent in November but below the 32 percent share in December 2011. Foreclosures sold for an average discount of 17 percent below market value in December, while short sales were discounted 16 percent.
…
The median time on market for all homes was 73 days in December, up from 70 days in November, but is 26.3 percent below 99 days in December 2011. Short sales were on the market for a median of 117 days, while foreclosures typically sold in 45 days; non-distressed homes took 74 days. Thirty-one percent of all homes sold in December were on the market for less than a month.
First-time buyers accounted for 30 percent of purchases in December, unchanged from November; they were 31 percent in December 2011.
All-cash sales were at 29 percent of transactions in December, compared with 30 percent in November and 31 percent in December 2011. Investors, who account for most cash sales, purchased 21 percent of homes in December, up from 19 percent in November; they were 21 percent in December 2011.
Single-family home sales slipped 1.4 percent to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 4.35 million in December from 4.41 million in November, but are 11.5 percent above the 3.90 million-unit pace in December 2011. The median existing single-family home price was $180,300 in December, up 10.9 percent from a year ago.
Existing condominium and co-op sales rose 1.7 percent to an annualized level of 590,000 in December from 580,000 in November, and are 22.9 percent higher than the 480,000-unit level a year ago. The median existing condo price was $184,100 in December, up 16.0 percent from December 2011.
Regionally, existing-home sales in the Northeast rose 3.2 percent to an annual rate of 640,000 in December and are 10.3 percent above December 2011. The median price in the Northeast was $231,600, up 5.3 percent from a year ago.
Existing-home sales in the Midwest fell 5.9 percent in December to a pace of 1.12 million but are 15.5 percent higher than a year ago. The median price in the Midwest was $144,800, which is 12.3 percent above December 2011.
In the South, existing-home sales declined 3.0 percent to an annual level of 1.95 million in December but are 14.7 percent above December 2011. The median price in the South was $161,100, up 11.0 percent from a year ago.
Existing-home sales in the West rose 5.1 percent to a pace of 1.23 million in December and are 8.8 percent higher than a year ago. The median price in the West was $239,900, which is 17.3 percent above December 2011.
30/31 – the makings of the next bubble starting sooner than I anticipated; low supplies, prices ratcheting up probably in spring/summer…this should be fun.
Looks like the law calls it a “Outdoor Furnace”. Town council minutes on town website says it was a quality of life issue.
Outdoor Furnace: Any equipment, device, appliance or apparatus, or any part
thereof, which is: (a) installed, affixed or situated outdoors; (b) wood, biomass and/or
pellet-fed; and (c) utilized for the purpose of combustion of fuel to produce heat or
energy used as a component of a heating system providing heat for any interior space
or water source. This term includes but is not limited to wood boilers.
2. New Ordinance Section “20-5.22 Outdoor Furnaces” is created to read, in its
entirety, as follows:
Outdoor Furnaces are prohibited in all zones. No accessory structures shall be
permitted to house or enclose an Outdoor Furnace.
3. If any provision of this ordinance or the application of this ordinance to any
person or circumstances is held invalid, the remainder of this ordinance shall not be
affected and shall remain in full force and effect.
4. All ordinances or parts of ordinances or resolutions that are inconsistent or in
opposition to the provisions of this ordinance are hereby repealed in their entirety.
5. This ordinance will take effect after publication and passage according to law.
Grim, I know they are gorgeous. To improve our efficiency of our firelplace we are probably going to a soapstone mantle, hearth, and fire bricks. We have vents and it heats our whole living area and bedrooms with the exception of the downstairs den ( f*cking Split Level). The problem is it eats wood and does not have an enclosure so when the fire goes out so does the heat
Brian funny thing is those wood fired boilers produce very little smoke and particulates. More nonsense for no reason. If they were bad Update NY would look like Beijing in the winter. Hell my neighbor has a coal stove they heat their whole house with that has particulate filters and I never see soot.
joyce they are nice aren’t they.
32 – I think we’re going to have yet another strong spring market.
I would agree. Quality inventory has been sparse so I’d expect some bidding wars for anything decent.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-22/sales-of-u-s-existing-homes-drop-on-lowest-supply-in-a-decade.html
Lack of quality inventory starting to effect sales . Would be buyers holding while prices increase
From CNBC:
Existing Home Sales Unexpectedly Fall 1 Percent
U.S. home resales unexpectedly fell in December as fewer people put their properties on the market, although not by enough to derail the boost housing will likely provide to the economy this year.
The National Association of Realtors said on Tuesday that existing home sales dropped 1.0 percent last month to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 4.94 million units.
That was still the second highest rate of sales since November 2009, when a federal tax credit for home buyers was due to expire.
…
Many Americans are holding back from putting their homes on the market because they owe more on their mortgages than their homes are worth. Inventories were down 21.6 percent from December 2011.
At the current pace of sales, inventories would be exhausted in 4.4 months, the lowest rate since May 2005.
The low inventories are encouraging multiple bids on homes and helping to boost prices, NAR economist Lawrence Yun said.
…
Distressed sales fell to 24 percent of total sales from 32 percent a year ago.
Pain,
I’m sure what I like more; the coffee mugs, wine chillers, or the countless people who I know would love the beer mugs as a gift. The pots and saute cookers look great too.
For the cups & mugs, won’t the metal handles get too hot/cold to hold with a bare hamd? I wonder if the taste of beer out of the mug will taste different due to the soapstone.
I’m [not] sure
Grim,
I finished building my house in 1992. I had then installed a Vermont Casting winterwarm system which consists of a a cast iron wood stove sitting inside a 7 foot high sheet metal cabinet that was sheet rocked over and bricked, except for the heating unit, of course.. Looks like a regular fireplace with a brass door. That room height is about 17 feet. But when that stove is cranking. it will heat most of the house and at night, the main heating unit rarely goes on, even in today’s type temperatures. That wood stove has been working religiously for over 20 years now and has has minimal maintenance, less than $700 over the years.
As for a condensing boiler, I do not recommend it unless you have radiant floors. a good cast iron boiler, like my Wells Mclain Gold is 90% efficient now and you don’t have to worry about the thin walled heat exchangers rotting out as in those stainless steel/aluminum models. Those don’t last over time. BTW, my WM gold puts out heat to 6 zones and has never had a service call. Keeping my fingers crossed.
I dont see NJ on this list
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/10-states-with-the-most-homes-in-foreclosure-2013-01-18
[43] Home in NJ don’t go into foreclosure anymore. They go into squattership.
Dope [12];
Barring implementation of ‘loser pays”, I decline to ‘wisen up a chump’, except to say if you think Eichenwald is a “conservative”, I suggest you define your terms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Eichenwald
joyce no clue, I prefer my beer out of glass or porcelain anyway. I was thinking of getting the wife the sautee cooker we have a ceramic and pocelain coated one we picked up in france but those look much nicer. Problem with Soapstone takes a long time to heat up but releases heat very evenly.
My bad – the self-reflection and ability to look at reality in those 25 points should have clued me in that he is not likely a conservative.
Hi There Grim,
Interesting Thoughts, What was in actual fact advised was to downgrade the spiritual factor of the event, not banning it. This will not truly change the meaning of the celebration for the majority of everyone at all or the way they celebrate it.
The British isles may likely nominally be a Christian country but what percentage of everyone are really practising Christians (I wager the majorityof families shouting loudest about Xmas are not). Christmas was imposed by the Christian Church on a pagan popluation who celebrated a midwinter festival near mid December. Most Christian celebrations were positioned about the high of current pagan types. So basically the celebration is December is ultimately a pagan celebration. Various of the traditions these types of as bringing evergreens into the property, eating an terrible whole lot and offering presents are straight out of the pagan midwinter celebration.
Thanks
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[44] In support of the premise that foreclosures just mostly don’t happen in NJ:
From one of yesterday’s aritcles:
“Twenty-three percent of Morris County households – 40,753 – are struggling”
From the census http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/34/34027.html :
Home “ownership” percentage in Morris County: 76.1 %
76.1% of 40,753 = 31,013 “struggling” homeowners
Let’s assume there aren’t quite as many home “owners” in this group, due to their struggles and all, so let say, less than 2/3rds? 20,000 “struggling” homeowners? Let’s say despite their struggles a full half of them are still current on their mortgage, so that drops us down to 10,000 delinquent. So let’s see what we have so far.
180,000 households * 76.1% = 137,000 homeowners. By our liberal math above 10,000 or about 1 out of 14 are delinquent, that seems fair right? Well foreclosures in Morris County have been picking up, as high as 13 per month lately, but averaging only about 10. At the current “high” rate, the currently delinquent homeowners’ shadow inventory will be cleared in 10,000/13 = 769 months. That’s about 64 years from now.
http://www.casinocitytimes.com/article/pokerstars-moving-forward-to-purchase-atlantic-club-casino-61779?utm_source=newsletter
AC to become the King of on line Gaming. As if it can’t get low enough
[47] dope,
Elevating opinion to the level of fact again, are we? I think there should be a 12 step program for that.
[50] freedy,
Can’t happen unless we come up with online corruption and online sex to go with it.
Dope [47];
To rephrase: “He can’t be a conservative, I agree with him!”
I’d think that fact that he is blindingly oblivious to trivially debunked lefty myths and conveniently revisionist about historical facts is what puts him firmly in your camp.
Because I can’t resist “Poor people have the right to vote.” Agreed. I call it the “de Tocqueville point”, and think we have passed it. Romney said something about that during the course of the campaign too, putting a number on it in fact. For speaking this truth, he was pilloried by the left-run mainstream media. Now you use that fact which he spoke, and you viciously denied was true, to insult him — all the while oblivious to the internal contradiction.
Party on, Garth.
51
ap·par·ent·ly
/əˈparəntlē/
Adverb
As far as one knows or can see: “the child nodded, apparently content with the promise”.
49 expat
Looking at median income and median home prices, if they can refi at 3.5% they are with in 35% of PITI income which is manageable. No? Ofcourse this dont take into account unemployment rate of county
Wow, you mean if I just put “apparently” in all of my posts it means I can be wrong all day long, reverse positions on a dime, and suffer no consequence to my credibility? Kool.
Correction: Kool, apparently.
Life is a reflection of what you think, if your thoughts are filled with negativity, the world you see will be the same.
If you see life as a battle, then a battle is what you will get, the struggle ends when you let go to seek peace instead.
Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya!
Man I swear if it was 1776 dope would be a loyalist stooge
[60] pain,
You could run quotes from Founding Fathers by most on the left and you would get two types of responses: that the speaker is a right wing nut, or, if the listener knows of the speakers identity, that the founding father’s quote is no longer relevant.
And FWIW, I have yet to find a left winger who doesn’t think this should a central tenet of our economic policy: “from each according to his abilities, to each according to his means”. And about half of those polled don’t disavow agreement with the speaker when they learn of his identity.
Apparently.
So if only 0.009% (13 out of 137,00) of homeowners in Morris County are heading to foreclosure every month, I guess it’s really a non-story as everyone else is able to just refinance their troubles away.
At that rate it will be 9 years before foreclosure even knocks on the door of 1% of the homes in Morris County. No worries, I guess.
49 expat
Looking at median income and median home prices, if they can refi at 3.5% they are with in 35% of PITI income which is manageable. No? Ofcourse this dont take into account unemployment rate of county
nom[61]
I completely disagree with this statement, actually – if you count me as a left winger. I am opposed to means testing in almost all cases.
Are they selling something in this ad? I didn’t notice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uPq7jVGPs3g
And you’re also opposed to the income tax and progressive income tax and other forms of redistribution?
cobbler says:
January 22, 2013 at 1:25 pm
nom[61]
I completely disagree with this statement, actually – if you count me as a left winger. I am opposed to means testing in almost all cases.
61 – you could apply that sentiment to any republican prior to the year 2000. they would all be raving liberals today, according to the current party.
Apparently refers to “apparently he is a conservative,” not the bullet points. I am happy to see you guys ignore the actual points in the list and continue to focus on trivial bullshit…just like your party leaders.
I understand the anxiety many of you are facing…you feel it is all slipping away.
joyce, I am opposed to means testing for benefits, not contributions. I guess you knew this already, OK? And yes, you can contribute somewhat greater share of your income without hurting your quality of life than a busboy at your eatery.
Dope [66];
I am happy to see you guys ignore the actual points in the list and continue to focus on trivial bullshit…
I guess post 53 looks like the second amendment to you; you ignore both of them exactly the same.
Or do you define “trivial bullshit” == anywhere you’re wrong?
Dope [58, 66];
. . .
Just keep telling yourself how much better you are than those who disagree with you. And don’t dare read that old and irrelevant document from the Framers that said “All men are created equal.” I’d hate to consider the damage you’d cause by the inevitable psychic break should you do otherwise.
(Aww, hell, go ahead and read it… you’d focus on the fact that they were just raving misogynists to exclude women, anyway.)
Just wondering if you had a 180 degree change of heart. You don’t ‘completely disagree’ with the statement. You completely agree with 50% of it.
And thanks again for telling me what my quality of life should be.
cobbler says:
January 22, 2013 at 1:46 pm
joyce, I am opposed to means testing for benefits, not contributions. I guess you knew this already, OK? And yes, you can contribute somewhat greater share of your income without hurting your quality of life than a busboy at your eatery.
People like Dope scare me. In my research on the rise of Nazi Germany, I really became dumbfounded when I learned how easily the people of Germany, and for that matter, the overwhelming majority of Europe and Russia could find it acceptable (perhaps even appropriate) to pillage and murder their neighbors and brethren. We are not even talking about people of a different color here. They looked like themselves, they worked like themselves and like themselves were proud of their nationalities. Shit, many didn’t get out when they should have because they loved their country so much that they couldn’t see the atrocity coming even when it was right in front of their eyes. Yet the influence of one well studied and powerful speaker nearly eliminated half of an entire race as well as six million others. It pains me to see that the resistance at the time was so little, but I truly understand it.
Humans are pack animals. One need not look past fashion , social media, pop music for the evidence. In America, this pack mentality is perhaps more prevalent now than ever before, in our ‘apparent’ need to ally ourselves with one of the two major parties. Very few think for themselves. Very few dig below the surface. Very few realize that reading their iPhones while driving is a much bigger problem than school massacres, yet the drones continue to focus their energy where the smallest bang for the buck might be obtained. It’s what their leaders want them to focus on whilst they continue to implement programs which strengthen their base to the detriment of the greater country.
So getting back to why Dope scares me, it is his undying need, not only to swallow the preachings of his party leaders, but also he feels the need to spread the gospel. He aims to stop people from thinking for themselves. And he appears to be a genuinely nice guy, almost likeable. Those are the dangerous ones. Like when ‘W’ convinced everyone that Saddam had WMDs, most would agree that he was likeable too. But those same people that Dope cheers for today, are the same stupid sheep who went along with that boob of a president. He doesn’t hold those members of congress responsible. This is reprehensible and scary. Biden claims to have been shot down over the Middle East, when his chopper suffered engine troubles and yet he becomes VPOTUS. He is a man so cowardly that he felt the need to generate a lie to feed his ego. Then there’s the Mozillo loans to countless members of Congress. I could go on all day. The list is endless. And it’s not me being partisan. They all suck and are playing you for the fool. But as much as I continue to try to convince you of the error of your ways, it is futile. Just as Hitler convinced much of Europe that the Jews were responsible for the woes of Eastern Europe, you are convinced that Republicans are responsible for the continuing erosion of the American quality of life. Sadly, it’s both parties and their continuing need to cater to their base for votes and to pay back their corporate sponsors/donors (lobbyists) for their cherished livelihood. Most of their supporters play along. You volunteered to join the SS.
71 – you have become unhinged
…but this echo chamber is perfect for a diatribe like that. at least you know the room.
Lib [74];
I consider it more tribal than ‘pack’. I observe that people may be set upon an ravaged in a variety of ways (reputation, money, freedom) for any number fabricated of reasons, perpetrated by individuals that are motivated by largely unrelated self-serving reward mechanisms, who are immune to rational exposition on how destructive that their actions may be.
Banding with an opposing tribe is nothing more than rational self defense.
Lib well said. the thing that is lost on blind followers is that it always for the greater good, at least until they are fed into the meat grinder. Even then it is some mistake. Heck even Hitler turned on the brownshirts once they outlived their usefulness.
but may I add
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. —Proverbs 26:4 (King James version) dope I’m an atheist by the way so save your Christian hating for someone else
Don’t argue with idiots because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. —Greg King
[72] dope,
And when you call one of the most centrist voices in the room “unhinged”, for disagreeing with you, you can be assured that you aren’t holding the middle ground anymore.
Apparently, you weren’t looking to convince anyone of the correctness of your views.
Apparently, the defense rests.
Lib [con’t, 74];
Just remember…
To quote Freddie Mercury, “Any way the wind blows…”
First time home buyer – held off buying a place 4yrs ago thanks to this site. I’m looking in Burlington county – Marlton for those that are familiar. I’m not seeking short sales but 2 homes I like are both short sales. In my opinion they are both priced pretty fair. Maybe a little overpriced but probably not by too much and they both have been listed for about 3 months. (have been listed before and removed)
Any tips for short sales? Both are in pretty good shape, one still has owner living in it. Is it worth putting in an offer? How long should I expect the process to take? Do I just put an offer in on one? Does the amount owed to the bank play a factor or is the bank just trying to get the most money regardless? Anything else I should know? I’m renting month to month so I can afford to wait the process out. I’m sure various factors could change thing but just looking for some general advice. Thanks!
Become unhinged?
Exactly! Try it sometime. It’s refreshing to think independently than to be spoon-fed crapaganda only to swallow it hook, line and sinker.
Finallybuying?
I have a sister who lives down that way. I like the area. My only advice to you is not to buy a car from Burns Honda!
Moose,
I can live with tribal over pack.
[81] libtard,
You already are living tribal! Packs are for goyim.
finallybuying?
if they are priced well and you have comaparables at their current list make an offer. Be prepared for a long slog with the bank even if you meet their target number. the again if you say you waited 4 years a little longer apparently isn’t going ot kill you. If you can use the lienholder for you mortgage at current rates that may make it easier as to mitigate their loss. Though grim and the other experts may have a better handle. Good luck, welcome to being a sucker like the rest of us.
once you start with the nazi germany comparisons it is hard to take it seriously…and right on cue the three wise men are right there to pat you on the back. bah, bah, bah!
#62 exppat
I believe that is what saving the housing market. People that went over their head and having difficulty,PITI at 50% but able to continue making payments were given a chance to bring down PITI to 30 to 35% through HARP. I believe the ones that can not afford the homes are long gone or are already in default, just waiting to be served. The ones that are left are strugling. But who is not? Will they go through foreclosure in large number at a PITI of 35%? That is just my opinion.
?
Dope. Was not comparing you to Hitler. Was comparing your willingness to swallow anything the left feeds you with the willingness of the Eastern Europe to pin their economic woes on the Jews. It was too easy for both them and you. Apparently, you are so programmed to react to the word Hitler that you couldn’t read what I actually wrote. You pretty much proved my point.
Your insinuation was that the government – left or right – is spoon feeding people propaganda as means to an evil end, is it not? You used Hitler as a comparison; he was “the government” that the people in your example blindly followed…I am the people that blindly (this is on shaky ground at best) follow our government. Is this not correct?
A little Godwin’s Law.
Grim, can you please un-mod #55? Thx.
88 – exactly…because, ya know, centrists need to bring nazi’s into a discussion to make their point hit home.
Dope [84];
I wish my had the underdeveloped sense of self-responsibility that lets you ingest the chemical enhancement that you so clearly indulge. I’ll admit I might enjoy the moment a bit more, if only from stupor, and would probably see much of the world as you do. Alas…
So Dope do you trust a government that intercepts citizen’s electronic communications without a warrant, asserts the right to kill them or indefinitely imprison them without trial? that is what you just voted for. Let’s not forget murder droning a few Pakis and Yemenis when ever the mood strikes with his Nobel Peacemakers.
I miss the old left at least they didn’t believe in this crap and you could have a rationale conversation with them on the merits of the social safety net. much in the same way Goldwater republicans have been drummed out of the GOP by extremist christian neocon looney birds, you progressive dodo birds are doing the same to the DNC.
Dope:
You really should look at what is going on in the USA right now. Both political parties are totally corrupt and use the power to their own benefit. Chairman O is just as corrupt and “evil” as Bush, he only gives out more SNAP cards due to the the ever-worsened economy. Yes, things are worse off than 4 years ago. 1+ trillion dollars per year in printed money just to keep the lights on is not progress, it’s not change and it is not long lasting.
I could go on an on about Obama and how is is just Bush in his 4th term as president but I will leave that to another day.
92 – I am made very uncomfortable by the amount of spying and record keeping our govt does…but at least if they are tracking me here they will know that I am a good sheep. Bah, bah, bah.
“I have often wondered at the smugness with which people assert their right to enslave me, to control my work, to force my will, to violate my conscience, to stifle my mind—yet what is it that they expect to depend on, when they lie on an operating table under my hands? Their moral code has taught them to believe that it is safe to rely on the virtue of their victims.”
Man, what an ugly day here at Grim’s forum. Does anybody feel the same way? We have two (or more) individuals at opposing political positions thinking they can outmaneuver the other within a written word. Guess what? No one is going to change their minds. Guess what? No one cares.
Personally, my parents and grandparents lived under Stalin and Hitler. I learned history through them but made my own interpretations and comparisons of the current times. I am grown up enough to know when an argument can make a difference. Those arguing here are really the pawns in a never ending chess battle of information and propaganda yet don’t realize it.
They do add entertainment value, though.
Xolepa, actually we were having a pretty good discussion on the merits of wood heating this morning you missed out. The Dope started braying again and we felt the need to answer. In other words it is Tuesday.
Who you calling ugly?
As for me bringing Hitler into it, I didn’t even denigrate him. The sign that Dope is helpless, is that he saw my diatribe as a comparison of him or a party to Hitler, which it wasn’t.
Xolepa, I know I can’t change his mind. That was kind of the whole point of my original post. Though, I hope I was more entertaining than annoying.
(97) Did not miss out. Please see reference 42.
(98) Hitler was not denigrated by my family as much as Stalin because he did it for the ‘Germans’. He was even seen as a liberator, but that didn’t last long at all. Stalin destroyed his own kind. My grandmother spoke kindly of the post-war Germans as being very polite and clean. I guess the Germans learned humility once the Red Army closed their zippers.
Another shooting in a College in Texas.
Yome – 2 Dead and 15 wounded In Shootings Since Friday… in Chi-Town……
The MSM rarely let’s those stories go national however, it isn’t national news when someone shoots up a Popeye’s chicken.
Or if it’s in a city run by Democrats for the last 70 years in a state with gun controls. You know like Camden NJ or Detroit, MI
We tend to react to the murders commited by psychos differently than to the “normal” ones: about 70 people a year get killed by the NYC subway trains, but when a nut pushes someone off the platform, there is a bunch of proposals to spend 200 Mln building gates and walls, or increase the travel time by 20% by making the train enter the station at 10 mph.
Is one who compares the checkpoints in Nazi Germany to the ones that are used in the current USA similarly ‘unhinged’?
Does it make it all better than their lawfullness was challenged and some black-robe magistrate says they’re fine?
DUI checkpoint? Yea, that’s fine, right? Inspection stickers? Seatbelts? Your papers? I’m sorry that phrase is inflammatory; I meant registration, insurance, and license of course. Your documents, not your papers.
103
I agree, cobbler. Similarly, the overwhelming majority of gun related deaths are from hand guns… not rifles (including the dreaded AR-15). Very much calling into question the need for banning those and similar rifles.
To #95 -Anon E. Moose
That is why in true police state. The enforcement mechanism usually – ” Ministry of the Interior ” with its ” State Security” runs a parallel society of hospitals, schools, farms. There are “citizens” – aka 99% and “member of the ministry or party”-aka 1%. This insures that the State Security thugs and their families never touches or has to depend on the “citizens” – the “ministry’s” bureacracy will provide for them. In fact this is the biggest warning sign that we are going from “soft” to “full power” authoritarian police state.
January 22, 2013 at 3:39 pm
“I have often wondered at the smugness with which people assert their right to enslave me, to control my work, to force my will, to violate my conscience, to stifle my mind—yet what is it that they expect to depend on, when they lie on an operating table under my hands? Their moral code has taught them to believe that it is safe to rely on the virtue of their victims.”
As long as that opposing tribe is not the Republicans.
Anon E. Moose says:
January 22, 2013 at 2:12 pm
Lib [74];
Banding with an opposing tribe is nothing more than rational self defense.
phoenix (15)-
As the middle class is decimated, so goes the political middle.
Got .223?
“It’s the extreme right, extreme left, fundamentalist religion ones that have the most issues. Most people in the middle could probably work well together.”
http://www.businessinsider.com/arguments-against-housing-recovery-2013-1
joyce (70)-
What cobbler fails to realize is that you can, indeed, afford to pay a little more than your busboy in taxes. However, to fund the Europhilic welfare state of the future, they eventually will not only jack your mandatory contribution sky high, but that of your busboy’s, too.
In the end, we will resemble the Euro periphery, in which EVERYBODY gets butt-banged in order to sustain an unsustainable system.
“And thanks again for telling me what my quality of life should be.”
pain (92)-
Barry Goldwater and Tip O’Neill left the building long ago. Now, we just have corrupt, self-serving ideologue idiots on both sides of the aisle. They can’t work together because they are both too stupid and too crooked.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-22/guest-post-real-housing-recovery-story
I dig this:
http://www.van-life.net/post/39388911618/model-converted-bus-location-tucson-az-2010
Money [111];
Barry Goldwater and Tip O’Neill left the building long ago.
See, that’s the thing about Dope. He talks as if Messiah/His O-ness and the whole bunch of them are pure as the driven snow, and its only the R party that has moved (presuming for the sake of argument that they have moved rightward at all).
Where’s the current equivalent of Pat Moynihan who’s willing to talk honestly about the interrelated effects of expanding welfare and destruction of the family unit on the lower class? Bill Clinton, who signed welfare reform (recently gutted by yet another Obama Fiat/Executive Order), was a product of the DLC. Who have they put up to the top of the ticket lately? Anyone mounted a challenge to Pelosi (and her super safe SF district-for-life) for party leadership?
Hell, where is the current equivalent of Paul Ryan on the left side of the aisle who even willing to put forward any budget proposal, much less one that even winks or nods to the entitlement & spending problem.
Only the sound of chirping crickets from the left.
Isn’t this whole thing for entertainment purposes? With a sprinkling of real knowledge on cars, homes, heaters, beer, etc, once in a while.
It is interesting/entertaining to see myself get referred to in all these posts that make wide, sweeping generalizations about what I think…based mostly on the fact that I don’t gobble up the same line of propaganda that many of you do.
Lib – I didn’t see any response to 87. Are you abandoning ship on that? Are you just another notch on Godwin’s belt?
Godwin’s LawIt states:
“As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.”[2][3] In other words, Godwin observed that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably makes a comparison to Hitler or the Nazis.”
money [110]
The problem is, we already spend on our mockery of welfare state (if you add the employers healthcare contribution which belongs there) the share of GDP comparable to the one Eurosocialists spend on the real thing. Theirs puts the country together, ours splits it apart.
There needs to be legislation against this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMqd5EQXD-g
Dope. Never heard of that law. Would you be happier if I used another example? Perhaps Pol Pot? It wouldn’t change my point one but. I question if you even read what I wrote. Yet you are so hung up on Hitler. What gives?
71,
Lib, good post. We need more rational, independent thought. The majority is diasastrously wrong on so many issues, and they just follow, worse, voluntarily trade in their minds for slogans.
Anon,
Good quote from Dr Hendricks in Atlas Shrugged
#96 Xolepa
It is depressing at times that this place is devoid of debate. Dope does have a point that we have some people in here that add nothing to the discourse, they just lob fallacy attacks at anyone who disagrees with them.
#98 Lib
Et tu, Reductio ad Hitlerum?
#114 Moose
Olympia Snow, Dick Lugar and Jon Kyl all hit the exits as the GOP purged the centerists that could match. What you have left is a the right with the mantra that spending is the problem, but won’t explain how to handle Defence, Medicare/Medicade and Social Security Spending that make up 62% of the budget.
The End Is Nigh (Culinary Edition):
Top News
Cheese fire causes traffic meltdown in Norway tunnel
OSLO (Reuters) – A truckload of burning cheese has closed a road tunnel in Arctic Norway for the last six days.
Some 27 metric tons of flaming brown cheese (brunost), a Norwegian delicacy, blocked off a three-km (1.9 mile) tunnel near the northern coastal town of Narvik when it caught fire last Thursday. The fire was finally put out on Monday.
“This high concentration of fat and sugar is almost like petrol if it gets hot enough,” said Viggo Berg, a policeman.
Brown cheese is made from whey, contains up to 30 percent fat and has a caramel taste.
“I didn’t know that brown cheese burns so well,” said Kjell Bjoern Vinje at the Norwegian Public Roads Administration.
He added that in his 15 years in the administration, this was the first time cheese had caught fire on Norwegian roads.
Berg said that no one was injured in the fire, only one other vehicle was in the area at the time and that the accident had luckily happened close to one of the tunnel’s exits.
The tunnel will closed for repairs for at least a week.
(Reporting by Victoria Klesty, editing by Paul Casciato)
Fab [123];
And the democrats drummed out Joe Lieberman, ran off Zell Miller and anyone — ANYONE — remotely resembling a blue dog. But you and ol’ weathervane there would have people believe that Republicans are racing to the polar extremes and you’re running to the middle to catch them.
but won’t explain how to handle Defence, Medicare/Medicade and Social Security Spending that make up 62% of the budget.
Perhaps you’re too young to remember what was done to GWB in 2005 when he tried to implement the SS private accounts proposal he ran on in both elections. As i said, your history began yesterday.
#125 Moose
I’ll see your Jokin Joe with an Arlen Specter whos was equally as flawed. Chris Murphy is one of the highlights of this election as Joe hit the exit for good and Linda McMahon was crushed.
I remember the SS privitization attempt and why it went down in flames. Lets take the fund and give everyone their lump and they can take it to some sales rep in a Broker Dealer who can p1ss it away on fees churning pets.com.
#126 Redux
Most of the Blue Dogs went down Republicans as they wern’t red enough.
Anyone on this board who is a supporter of either major party is either a mental defective, brainwashed or both.
Gotta get back to the episodes of Biggest Loser I TIVO’d.
[121] fabius,
While you tend to use more facts and less ad hominen than dope, please don’t pretend that you are schooling anyone here in the rhetorical arts. Essentially, your proofs come down to my way=good, your way=bad.
And as for Godwin’s Law, I find that liberals and tribe members often claim that it has an exemption for them. In the case of tribe members, its understandable.
130 – show me several examples of these ad hominen attacks. i’ll wait.
118 – “Hung Up on Hitler” is the name of my new musical.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGbunmlMuHo
I asked you to explain how the interpretation below is incorrect. If you can’t…fine.
Peace, Love, Dope & Beer says:
January 22, 2013 at 3:24 pm
Your insinuation was that the government – left or right – is spoon feeding people propaganda as means to an evil end, is it not? You used Hitler as a comparison; he was “the government” that the people in your example blindly followed…I am the people that blindly (this is on shaky ground at best) follow our government. Is this not correct?
[131] dope,
[47, 66, 72, 73, 84][this thread]
I would do more but this stop light isn’t long enough.
your definition of ad hominem is very LIBERAL. The other day you misused “whining” now “ad hominem.” You use a very different dictionary than most.
from Wikipedia:
Examples of ad hominem attacks:
“The Mayoral candidate’s proposal about zoning is ridiculous. He was caught cheating on his taxes in 2003.”
“What makes you so smart and all-knowing that you can deny God’s existence? You haven’t even finished school.”
“If Dr. Smith is such a skilled heart surgeon, then why was he arrested for gambling?”
“Your fashion opinion isn’t valid; you can’t even afford new shoes.”
Fab [126];
I remember the SS privitization attempt and why it went down in flames. Lets take the fund and give everyone their lump and they can take it to some sales rep in a Broker Dealer who can p1ss it away on fees churning pets.com.
“Lets take the fund”
A) Not all the fund, less than half of it.
“they can take it to some sales rep in a Broker Dealer who can p1ss it away on fees churning pets.com.”
B) Point in fact, the proposal was to let individuals invest their portion of the fund so allocated in the Thrift Savings Plan, aka the equivalent-401k for federal employees, USPS, military. And no, “pets.com” is not one of the investment options.
Compare to the abysmal 1.23% effective rate of return on SS taxes. The proposal also would have given individuals the ability to leave unused funds to children or grandchildren, instead of just taking it from people who die before using their benefits.
You can’t help but trying to scare people into agreeing with you, facts be damned.
Many are excellent hints which I will try up, I will be glad I came across the item. Appreciate it.