From the Financial Times:
…The Greens bought a foreclosed house for about $31,000. They renovated it, rented it out – and discovered a successful new business model. Today they own 76 homes, most of them painted with a signature blue front door.
…
Now the Greens have a different problem: there are no cheap houses left to buy.
…
The nature of the recovery in Cape Coral and similar areas is bringing back bad memories: it is bubbly, driven by financial investors, and focused on the same “sand states” as the last boom. In Cape Coral, one of the hardest-hit markets in the country, prices are up by 13 per cent on a year ago; in Phoenix, Arizona, they are 24 per cent higher.But this is not the start of a new US housing bubble, nor is one likely for years to come. After five years in free fall, US houses are now at something like fair value, and new regulation means there is little mortgage helium to inflate prices again.
More likely, the US housing market is in the first, volatile stage of a return to normality, with gently rising prices and the return of new construction. That should support growth in the US economy – but not dominate it like a decade ago. This means Americans still hoping to build most of their wealth from their houses – a persistent notion even after the experience of the past five years – are likely to be disappointed.
…
A stable housing recovery can only happen if prices really are back to normal. The six-year bubble upset all notions of what a house is truly worth. Sleepy little bungalows in Florida doubled in price; your house, suddenly, could make you rich.There is no good way to define fair value for houses, says Robert Shiller, a Yale professor who warned of both the internet and housing bubbles. Today, he says US home prices are close to their long-run trend. The median sale price for an existing home was $178,900 in the fourth quarter of 2012, according to the National Association of Realtors, up 10 per cent on a year ago.
…
“House prices have gone up a little bit since 1890 in real terms,” says Mr Shiller. With prices about right relative to history, there is no reason to expect big moves up and down over the next decade or two.
…
Another requirement – absorbing unwanted houses built during the boom – also seems to be met.Although the US housing crash evokes an image of endless stretches of unwanted houses in a desert, over-construction was only a small part of the US housing bubble from 2003 to 2006. In fact, new building never matched its 1970s peak.
“I think the excess was in terms of home price appreciation and the excess was in terms of home ownership,” says Michelle Meyer, a housing economist at Bank of America Merrill Lynch in New York.
…
Right now, rapid house price rises are confined to markets such as Arizona, Nevada and northern California, which were at the heart of the bust. States where a judge must approve foreclosures, such as Illinois and Ohio, are further back in the process.Of the 100 largest housing markets, 15 are up by more than 10 per cent on a year ago; in 32 others, including big cities such as Chicago and Philadelphia, prices fell or rose by less than 3 per cent.
The narrowness of today’s revival – and the reason it is likely to evolve into a gentler recovery – is confirmed by the curious mixture of investor demand and restricted supply that is playing out in housing markets such as Cape Coral.
…
Sam Khater, deputy chief economist at housing data supplier CoreLogic, points out that this situation is somewhat artificial and the house price rally may soon run out of steam. There are lots of people – investors and homeowners – who will want to sell as soon as prices get a bit higher. “What you might have is a series of rolling bubblettes,” says Mr Khater, as investors work through the available inventory in distressed markets.
…
Many tried to live the dream of riches from housing during the bubble; what let the Greens succeed was the bursting of it. Unless there is a shift in US financial regulation, however, they may be some of the last Americans to make big money from houses for some years to come.
From the Street:
When Foreclosures Are Good for the Housing Market
The foreclosure crisis is far from over, but it may no longer be a threat to the recovery of the housing market.
While millions of homes remain in the foreclosure process, there are now other factors such as a shortage of housing inventory and strong demand from investors and traditional home buyers that might provide some support for the housing market.
Foreclosures have been on the decline in the past two years. Fewer borrowers have defaulted on their loans. Banks have also pursued alternatives to foreclosures amid new state laws designed to protect borrowers.
…
Market observers, however, do not expect foreclosures to go away anytime soon.
…
But such borrower-friendly laws have not really stopped foreclosures; they’ve merely slowed them down.
…
This is, of course, not good news for borrowers in default who may be hoping to stay in their homes.
But, ironically, a steady supply of foreclosed homes might actually help buyers in most markets.
The number of homes available for sale at the end of 2012 was at an 11-year low, according to National Association of Realtors. According to data from Realtors.com, inventory declined 16.5% from a year earlier in January.
The shortage of homes available for sale is driving prices higher, resulting in bidding wars in some cities and sparking concerns that another bubble might be starting.
Rising home prices should normally encourage more Americans to sell their homes to trade up, but the crisis has left millions owing more than their homes are worth. Many are still on the fence, waiting for prices to move up further so that they can sell at a profit.
The supply from new construction, meanwhile, is likely to take a while to hit the market.
So it turns out that foreclosures are now welcomed in some markets where buyers are struggling to find a good bargain.
Foreclosures are no longer so much a drag but a “stimulus,” according to Blomquist. In markets where foreclosures are on the decline, prices are rising. In others where foreclosures are rising, they are providing inventory to buyers.
The bottom line is, volatility in foreclosure levels may not matter so long as underlying demand remains strong.
From Forbes:
Have All The Bad Loans Already Been Foreclosed?
U.S. foreclosure starts dropped to a six-year low in January, another strong indication that the U.S. housing market is recovering and the worst of the foreclosure crisis is behind us.
But what specifically is driving this decreasing foreclosure activity? Is it simply a matter of rising home prices pulling more troubled homeowners back from the brink of foreclosure? Or should the numerous foreclosure prevention efforts at the national, state and local level get the lion’s share of the credit for the slowdown in foreclosure activity?
While both of these are certainly helping to speed the descent, the fundamental factor driving the drop in foreclosures is better lending guidelines that don’t allow anyone with a reflection to qualify for a loan — not to mention anyone who can fog that reflection.
Since the financial crisis hit in full force in 2008 — triggered by loans gone bad in big numbers — the mortgage industry has got religion in a big way. And it’s not just talking the talk, it’s walking the walk as well, as evidenced by the declining foreclosure rate on loans originated in 2009 and later.
…
More than 5 percent of still-active loans originated in 2006 were in some stage of foreclosure as of the fourth quarter of 2012 — the highest foreclosure rate of any year going back to 2000. That was followed by 2007 vintage loans with a 4.75 percent foreclosure rate, 2005 vintage loans with a 3.52 percent foreclosure rate, and 2008 vintage loans with a 2.95 percent foreclosure rate. The only other loan vintage with a foreclosure rate above 2 percent was 2004, with a 2.16 percent foreclosure rate.
The foreclosure rate on 2009 vintage loans dropped to 1.11 percent, and the foreclosure rate steadily decreases on loans originated in the three years since — all of which have foreclosure rates below 1 percent.
…
So certainly the drop in foreclosure starts can in large part be attributed to better quality loans in recent years, providing less fuel for the foreclosure fire going forward. But the other side of that good news is the bad news that the housing market has not yet dealt with many of the risky loans originated during the dark ages of lending.
…
To the contrary, 75 percent of all loans that are actively in the foreclosure process were originated from 2004 to 2008, while only 14 percent were originated from 2009 to 2012, and only 11 percent were originated in 2003 or earlier.
Good Morning New Jersey
Just demolish xanadu already.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/02/xanadu_waiting_to_be_reborn_as.html#incart_m-rpt-1
Just demolish Atlantic City and turn Xanadu into a casino already.
Regarding the automatic sprinkler system for new houses. It’s a great thing. No one talked about it, because very few people outside of it know.
But it is a great thing, because of how disfunctional and resistant to change most local mostly volunteer fire departments truly are in NJ. The fact is they are not likely to get there in numbers to actually put out the fire until is the house is nearly burnt into the ground.
6 – I’ll ask you, because maybe you know.
What percentage of homes involved in structural fires are actually ‘saved’ by firefighting? Or, put it a better, way, at what point does the cost to rebuild the entire house equal the cost to repair the fire and associated water damage? And how does the act of “firefighting” improve this scenario? 10% of houses saved? 20%? 50%? 0? At what point does the act of “firefighting” only serve to limit collateral damage to neighboring properties and life. (We can’t save your house, but we can save your neighbors). At what point is it simply better to let the property burn to the point it is a total loss, and rely on insurance money to rebuild from the ground up.
I look at this scenario not unlike having your car stolen. You can buy a Lo-Jack that improves the chances of having your car recovered, but the fact of the matter is, you are likely better off not having your car recovered due to latent/unknown damages that may have been caused. Example, joyriders redlined your car doing donuts in a parking lot in Orange, they damaged the motor and transmission. Car is returned to you, a year later the trans dies and the motor seizes. Was it worth it getting the car back? No, insurance won’t pay at that point, and the cost of the lo-jack simply added insult to injury.
Also, if we do mandate sprinklers, first for new construction, and eventually for retrofit (It will happen), to what extent can we cut budgets for municipal fire protection? Theoretically we need less equipment and manpower, no? If this technology puts out say, 50% of fires that would have required a firefighter, what reduction could we take? This could be a significant positive for those municipalities that don’t have volunteer squads, no?
Re sprinklers
Will there be false alarms with everything getting wet and need to be demolished?
From yesterday: We talk about how prices are down from peak and price/income ratios but property taxes and their unabated ascent never enter the discussion. The number one reason that holds us back from pulling the trigger on a house is property taxes. You’re talking about an additonal $1000 per month on top of the mortgage and that number will grow unchecked year over year.
The sprinklers debate is interesting. In fact, I think of it as an argument for older homes constructed with natural materials vs. newer homes constructed with modern materials. Part of the problem is that the materials we use to construct and furnish our homes now, burn much more quickly.
In this recent experiment at Underwriter Laboratories, they burned a room constructed and furnished with older natural materials, then one with modern materials.
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/modern-homes-burn-simulation-15201700
I was thinking this yesterday as well. Maybe there should be a (Taxes + Insurance)/Income ratio too.
From yesterday: We talk about how prices are down from peak and price/income ratios but property taxes and their unabated ascent never enter the discussion. The number one reason that holds us back from pulling the trigger on a house is property taxes. You’re talking about an additonal $1000 per month on top of the mortgage and that number will grow unchecked year over year.
Eddie [9];
$1k a month would be a discount. My closing attorney last July offered his services come tax appeal time (i.e., now).
We left NJ in 1997, our rent at that time had never been over $900/month. There’s just something about the $1000/month property tax mental barrier ($12K/year) that really irks me.
I had a Jr. High science teacher who told me a story about his interaction with the volunteer fire chief of the NJ town he had just moved to. The chief said they saved lots of fireplaces and bathtubs.
Realistically, though, the fire department isn’t there to save the property where the fire started. Its there to contain the fire from spreading. The origin of the fire usually can’t be saved anyway — the FD’s job is to save the neighborhood. Example: Breezy Point during Sandy — no FD response, dozens of houses burnt to the ground.
Grim [1];
But, ironically, a steady supply of foreclosed homes might actually help buyers in most markets.
Where was this Einstein when I was saying this in 2006, when it could have mattered? Eff off, Cramer-lite.
8 – in a traditional wet system, highly unlikely. The pipes are basically just filled with water and sprinklers are plumbed in that are heat activated. Basically, the sprinkler cap melts and the water is then released. So, you’ll already have a good fire going for this to occur. I didn’t read the article yesterday if it mentioned any smoke or heat detectors.
All of these systems could/are addressable, and can be programmed to trigger the fire department just like office buildings today. But a basic wet system won’t. Hope that helps.
16 – What turns the water off?
Clot made a comment yesterday that he would start writing contracts like crazy if qualified sellers suddently re-entered the market. That made me wonder if any realtor ever made a business of concentrating their efforts on trying to list only qualified sellers. I imagine getting someone to list thier $550K house at $549K is a lot easier with no mortgage instead of that same house with a $500K mortgage.
Wow!
http://m.guardiannews.com/world/2013/feb/19/diamond-robbery-brussels-airport-plane
It doesn’t have to be water, wet systems can also be glycol-based. In that case it is it’s own closed pressurized system. I believe they can be de-pressurized at the control point. Maybe all wet systems are like that? We have a glycol-based system at work and it has some elaborate plumbing and controls on the first floor.
16 – What turns the water off?
19 who will be a good actor to star on that movie?
16 thanks
Seen sprinklers go off at work over the years. The soot and smell that comes out is brutal from the water laying in them.
Has anyone ever found a good comprehensive analysis across states/locales for the true, all-in, “property” taxes? I’ve tried to hunt it down before but none of them appear to take into account all the potential sub-components. Some areas are more ala-carte than others.
For example, I have a friend down in TX, and he pays 3 components. Municipal, School, and City. Many comparisons don’t take into account the city component.
I have a friend down in Baltimore, and he’s mentioned on numerous occasions the fact that water and sewer bills are astronomical in comparison to property taxes. He had said that if he ran his sprinklers during the hot summer, he’d expect to pay close to $2,000 in water bills for the year. Obviously, not taken into account.
Also, things like garbage collection and other services tend to be very sporadic, and easily account for $500/year difference or more. Some areas charge for fire protection (if we want to stay on topic). Lots of areas out in California charge numerous “special assessments”, which don’t get included in property taxes, but are typically the kind of municipal infrastructure projects that would be included everywhere else.
So, like I said, does anyone have a good reference for the all-in rates?
We left NJ in 1997, our rent at that time had never been over $900/month. There’s just something about the $1000/month property tax mental barrier ($12K/year) that really irks me.
The plankton theory. I can’t justify settling for 4 out of 10 on the checklist to move up; thus, my buyers can’t enter. There’s two transactions that died. Now, I can’t buy that mid-level house and the haughty folks can’t pull the trigger on the 1.3 mil spiffy house. The tax rate is just enough to pull the plug. Unabated taxes we can’t control but the prices, we can. So, the prices need to drop further. When salaries begin to rise and jobs increase again, then you’ll see the prices steadily rise. That’s at least a decade away.
50% of houses on fire were either intentional or a blessing.
Anon E. Moose says:
February 19, 2013 at 8:34 am
I had a Jr. High science teacher who told me a story about his interaction with the volunteer fire chief of the NJ town he had just moved to. The chief said they saved lots of fireplaces and bathtubs.
Realistically, though, the fire department isn’t there to save the property where the fire started. Its there to contain the fire from spreading. The origin of the fire usually can’t be saved anyway — the FD’s job is to save the neighborhood. Example: Breezy Point during Sandy — no FD response, dozens of houses burnt to the ground.
Let me see I get this straigh…you bought in a town you could afford, a house you could afford. Kids to college you could afford. Kids graduating with no debt and house almost paid for? If that is the case, you are truly a fiscal conservative and should be highly commended for it.
yome says:
February 18, 2013 at 1:59 pm
When I bought my first house in 94 I paid 2x income.Mortgage plus taxes is equal to rent I was paying in one of those luxury apartment condo.In less than 10 years income has tripled making payment for the house peanut.Vacations domestic and abroad were easy.It got to a point,the question was if we can take off from work and go on vacation with no planning.Money did not become an issue anymore.I did not carry any debt.I paid everything when the bill comes. Iwas able to save and at the same time take care of my responsibility of educating the kids.
moose in the end that is just the point. Adding sprinklers will envitably do more damage from the sprinklers then any fire. It is like swimming in a shark suit. Really not necessary in that the one in a million event almost never happens.
Can’t wait until john and suzy home debtor stop paying their note and don’t take care of the system. If you thought mold was a problem in unlived in house, imagine one with an unkempt sprinkler system. they sweat, heads need to be maintained, and you have to have access to the systems. Ceilings with access panels or drop ceilings how high end.
Hey what’s with the gun craze thing lately? I guess I’ve read some comments here about shortages of ammo or whatever and I’ve seen brief stories in the news but until this weekend, I didn’t realize how much people are really freaking out about it.
I’m eating dinner in a quiet restaurant with my wife and they sat us in earshot of this other table with a couple of guys out with their girlfirends or wives or whatever. The guys at the table are going on and on almost the whole time about how they have to get more guns, they can’t find ammo, lets all shoot stuff together etc. Jesus I mean pay some attention to your wives or whatever.
Just seems odd to me. I’ve been interesting in shooting before but seems like average people are starting to get fanatical about it. Buying up everything in site.
Sort of reminds me of the way everyone wanted to get into real estate in 2005-2006.
23 – Don’t forget the states that tax car value each year, I know Rhode Island is one of them. That’s hundreds of dollars per house, even for just 1 or 2 cars, that act exactly the same as a property tax but is hidden under a different name.
Gary – When are we going to start looking in Randolph. I’m telling you, it’ll be better for your health. Heck, how about Smoke Rise in Kinnelon, you can rub the gated community in the face of most of Bergen. I can get you 11 Black Oak in Kinnelon with a four handle. It may need some updates, but I’m telling you that you will not find a better built house in a good town in NJ for the price (I’m telling you, because I almost bought this house). This place would have easily sold in the mid/high sevens during the peak. Only reason it’s at this price is that it’s a contemporary in a town where everyone wants a CHC. That an no yard, despite being on 1.2 acres (no grass to mow). Good bones? The house is all 2×6 and 2×12 construction. Current owner is the builder, and he didn’t cheap out anywhere. It’s older, but for the high fours, I implore you to find anything in Bergen even remotely close to this quality for the price.
Grim just have Gary talk to me, the only sacrifice i had to make is that there is only one good Italian deli in town, and the bread out here sucks. All other types of fair have been suitably replaced. Rt 10 can be a bear after 7 but there are ways around it.
31 – Grato in Morris Plains is probably one of the best new Italian joints in NJ.
I only have one anecdotal story from PA, but I agree completely. Their property taxes (all-in the most I can figure) was like $2,000/year. However, this did not include a $7,000/year school tax. I believe this was Stroudsburg, or East Stroudsburg, or Stroud Twp. I know, how could I have mixed them up?
grim says:
February 19, 2013 at 9:15 am
Has anyone ever found a good comprehensive analysis across states/locales for the true, all-in, “property” taxes? I’ve tried to hunt it down before but none of them appear to take into account all the potential sub-components. Some areas are more ala-carte than others.
33 – Same thing, my friends in San Antonio pay a 6 or 7 thousand dollar annual school tax. But no problem, because their property taxes are only 1 or 2 thousand.
Grim will have to check it out when we have a free night without the kids. We tend not to eat Italian out though, grew up with an Italian mom so I’m spoiled, but miss good italian bakeries and having a deli and butcher on each corner. Keeps prices down. It took us a year to find a sushi joint we liked (price and quality), Indian has proven much easier. Steak decent places in Mendham and Morristown. Still have not found a suitable Thai replacement so we have to go to east hanover and the chinese food out here sucks.
Fast Eddie;
Do you play poker?
grim [30],
Eventually, all options will be explored. The distance from school is a biggie. I can’t embelish on here.
Moose,
Poker? I don’t even know her? lol! Once in a great while I’ll play for fun.
My friend in atlanta pays $1,200 a year property taxes. However, he pays for garbage pickup and since Atlanta schools are terrible and there are few catholics down south so no cheap catholic schools he pay like 16K a year for tuitition. So he taxes are really around 18K a year,
Joyce says:
February 19, 2013 at 10:08 am
I only have one anecdotal story from PA, but I agree completely. Their property taxes (all-in the most I can figure) was like $2,000/year. However, this did not include a $7,000/year school tax. I believe this was Stroudsburg, or East Stroudsburg, or Stroud Twp. I know, how could I have mixed them up?
grim says:
February 19, 2013 at 9:15 am
Has anyone ever found a good comprehensive analysis across states/locales for the true, all-in, “property” taxes? I’ve tried to hunt it down before but none of them appear to take into account all the potential sub-components. Some areas are more ala-carte than others.
This ad is a great example of the seller mentality discussed on this board:
“CamryLE 2011-DEALER WON’T LOWER PAYMENT-NEED MONEY TO MOVE – $166 (NJ) Lease through Toyota – 2011 Camry LE, White, Rear Tinted windows – $4000.00 down to me since that is what i gave them $165.74 month…Dealer will not Lower my payment or let me out of lease”.
Void contract or lower my payment due to personal circumstance, or pay me what I paid the other guy some time ago. This ain’t no charity!
3.
Grim [34];
Technically, Nassau (NY) breaks out general taxes from school taxes, but when you look on the county assessor’s website its all bottom-lined anyway, so the subdivisions is academic or transparent accounting.
I think my taxes now are still better than sending two kids to private school for 12 years. If I do like my sellers did and list the place to sell the year the youngest kid graduates HS and decamp for a waterfront condo in Boca, I’ll make out. If I get comfortable and lazy after the kids finish school and stick around another 10 years because I ‘like’ the neighborhood, I’ll pay the price tag for it.
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/construction_housing/homeownership_and_housing_costs.html
#14..Not sure what is meant by “no” FDNY response to Brezzy Point. My 2 brothers are FDNY Chiefs, I believe number one priority is preservation of life, as far as the fire, the Hydrants were under 6 feet of water making the ability to fight the fire difficult if not impossible.
#26 anon,
Thank you! I will take that as a compliment. I was 3 years away from paying off the mortgage when my wife started bothering me to get a new house. I bought a second home in 2004 cash getting the money from my primary. Cash out refi. My interest rate was 5.6 back then 30 years. I refi through harp 2.0 last year got 3 percent 15 years. In 5 years I will retire and let my kids finish paying the mortgage. They will have a balance of $170k and ten years left with a 3 percent rate. I will give the title to them when it is done.
I will sell my second home and retire at a foreign country. Collecting SS and a thousand a month on 401k will give us about $3400 a month.This amount will be tax free as per 1040 filing trials. After tax saving plus prceeds from the sale of the house should keep me up to with future inflation. House is paid cash at the
country I am going. Dual citizen.
’87 [43];
I meant no offense, nor to imply that anyone sat on their asses. Just that the nature of the event overwhelmed what they could have otherwise done to contain the damage — for the reasons you mentioned.
yome, what country? …just out of curiosity
It is very hard to find water in a flood?
Actually only mistake FDNY did in Brezzy point was pre-sandy. Coned shut power down, Brezzy point is Lipa, they could have had someone check with Lipa when water started rising to kill power. I bet next time they do it.
1987 Condo Buyer says:
February 19, 2013 at 10:41 am
#14..Not sure what is meant by “no” FDNY response to Brezzy Point. My 2 brothers are FDNY Chiefs, I believe number one priority is preservation of life, as far as the fire, the Hydrants were under 6 feet of water making the ability to fight the fire difficult if not impossible.
The actual tax bill homeowners gets breaks it down to penny. For instance I pay a certain % to support Nassau Community College, Library etc.
Anon E. Moose says:
February 19, 2013 at 10:40 am
Grim [34];
Technically, Nassau (NY) breaks out general taxes from school taxes, but when you look on the county assessor’s website its all bottom-lined anyway, so the subdivisions is academic or transparent accounting.
I think my taxes now are still better than sending two kids to private school for 12 years. If I do like my sellers did and list the place to sell the year the youngest kid graduates HS and decamp for a waterfront condo in Boca, I’ll make out. If I get comfortable and lazy after the kids finish school and stick around another 10 years because I ‘like’ the neighborhood, I’ll pay the price tag for it.
#46 brian,
In one of the paradise island in the far east
Might be more convincing if you implored him.
grim says:
February 19, 2013 at 9:53 am
… Good bones? The house is all 2×6 and 2×12 construction. Current owner is the builder, and he didn’t cheap out anywhere. It’s older, but for the high fours, I implore you to find anything in Bergen even remotely close to this quality for the price.
G [32];
Haven’t been there yet, thought I very much like Tabor Road Tavern right next door. I was told they have the same owners.
50 – I have no idea what you are talking about… :)
No one has picked up on the true problem with the sprinklers, getting them inspected every few years. Anyone on a condo board knows the pain of that process. I can understand that if you have an eleveator in the house, that is a choice and the inspection tag comes along with it. With the sprinklers who is really going to follow up on that.
The FDNY had 200 firefighters in Breezy. I think they had fire tenders on the back of National Guard trucks. The lawsuit against LIPA from Sandy should be a good one. What happens if they go bankrupt? Who steps in?
JJ [47];
LIPA being sued class-action by Breezy Point homeowners over not killing power. The suit may be right, may win or settle, buy I have to believe that the homeowners are better off with fire insurance claims than flood claims.
#30 grim
Nice house, the commute out of there, especially in winter would be a deal breaker.
Obviously the taxpayer
Fabius Maximus says:
February 19, 2013 at 11:03 am
What happens if they go bankrupt? Who steps in?
[28] brian,
Crisis mentality. The dems are putting out their most serious push on gun control in our lifetimes. And everything is gone: Guns, ammo, even reloading supplies and equipment are sold out. People I talked to at Cabela’s (lifers-been there 20 years or more) said they never saw anything like this. Now everyone wants to get in under the wire but that horse has left the barn.
Fortunately, I considered that something like this was a real possibility and stocked up, especially since I saw that the dems were focusing on making guns unusable by restricting ammunition (something Obama talked about while a state senator).
And what I feared came to pass: First, shortly after Obama took power, the DoD cancelled regular sales of spent brass cartridges to private contractors. This created a mini-shortage and signaled that this administration would use stealth measures to advance their agenda. Some in Congress got DoD to back down, but a year later, DoD did an end-around with a defense contractor to keep spent brass from hitting the market (this restricts brass available for civilian use. It’s also a nice sweetheart deal for the contractor, and a net negative to the taxpayer). Second, government agencies with enforcement personnel placed record orders last year for ammunition: the explanation was that this was for “training” (which makes a “training” stockpile that allows for tens of thousands of rounds per employee). Last year, Social Security placed a huge order for ammo, and it was recently disclosed that new contracts were being issued for 1.6 billion rounds of ammo for DHS (not DoD).
The explanation given was that the government gets a good price for buying in bulk.
By my math, that gives each federal agent issued a firearm over 22,000 rounds of ammo (over 4,000 per year over the life of the DHS contract) to train with. And the contractor that won the contract is the same contractor that DoD diverted all of its spent brass to in 2010.
These contracts serve a legit purpose, to be sure. And while the conspiracy theorists who publicized the contracts feel that there are sinister motives, I don’t know that the number of DHS, SSA, and IRS agents, and U.S. federal marshals in the U.S. are sufficient to impose quasi-martial law (as a way around the Posse Comitatus Act, I suppose). But, knowing that the democratic motive is to “drain the swamp” by limiting ammo availability, the contracting pattern (which doesn’t require congressional approval) seems to go a long way toward that end—ammo prices are significantly higher than when I stocked up.
17 – grim, nothing until you turn the water off.
Just picture an activated wet system as an exposed copper pipe in your ceiling that was stabbed with a few pinholes. that’s it.
50% of homes in general have no flood insurance. Also 50% of homes with flood insurance coverage is limited in a basement and not all policies cover contents.
Downside of flood insurance is it is capped at 350K.
A bungalow with no basement, full flood insured, the LIPA lawsuit is just about getting extra cash. They already got paid in full.
Honestly, LIPA never turned my power off. I killed it when I was waste deep in water. You are supposed to kill power yourself when you evacuate a house in a flood zone. Most of them did not as you have fridge going, house alarms etc. .
Anon E. Moose says:
February 19, 2013 at 11:06 am
JJ [47];
LIPA being sued class-action by Breezy Point homeowners over not killing power. The suit may be right, may win or settle, buy I have to believe that the homeowners are better off with fire insurance claims than flood claims.
Comparing your January 2013 paycheck to one from January 2012 is a fun exercise.
“The number one reason that holds us back from pulling the trigger on a house is property taxes. You’re talking about an additonal $1000 per month on top of the mortgage…”
If you’re not prepared to pay $12,000 in property taxes, you’re not prepared to live in NJ. The state is not going to change, so either jump in, or head to greener pastures.
JJ,
There are many suburbs of Atlanta where the schools are better than yours. Just follow the Chinese families, of course your kids will be way down the honor roll from them. I know of plenty of kids going to Atlanta suburb public school with perfect SATs and attending Ivy league schools.
This whole “schools in the south suck” elitism from northerners is a bunch of bs. If you live in the right suburbs, they’re as good as anywhere. Meanwhile, they’re laughing as we are paying big bucks for modestly above average schools just to dump money down the Newark and Camden educational sinkholes. At least down there they don’t communistically dump everyone’s money down the crackbaby sewer.
It’s not money, it’s choice and freedom that schools need. And parents that aren’t idiots. Starts with never hiring a teacher who says “I wanna axe you a question”
Eddie [38];
Get in touch via G-man, else (less reliably) to John Doebinski Yahoo com.
Ragnar [62];
Someone mockingly posted an MLS listing for 16+ ac. in Alpharetta, GA asking $1MM. I suspect that land would be cheap at the price. When I was flirting with a Hotlanta position I spoke with a distant cousin who lived several years down there, who credibly described it as “Beverly Hills of the South”.
Statler [61],
It’s 12K today. When it was 6K we said the same thing. Blink and it becomes 18K. At what end does it stop? Oh, I get it, it’s competitive here, if one can’t afford to live here then one should consider leaving the state. I guess that’s why NJ is No. 1 in outflow. Salaries rising to keep pace? LOL! Sure.
Three factors are involved: price of house, property taxes, salaries. When salaries stay flat indefinitely and property taxes rise like a runaway train, where do you think house prices are headed? We’re 27% below peak. When some predicted 40% below peak, there was much laughter. Any further questions?
Lower rents now in NYC but hey, according to the NAR, that must be a positive for New Jersey Real Estate………Who needs bankers and their salaries anyhow? We’ve got actors and technology.
By JOSH BARBANEL
It is a paradox of today’s New York City home rental market: Despite significant job growth in the last year, rents have been flat or falling for months.
One reason why, according to a new study out Tuesday, is that more city renters are like Kaye Tuckerman, an actress starring in a national tour of “Mamma Mia!,” who signed a lease for a two-bedroom Harlem apartment in September for $1,950 a month. Unlike some of the Wall Street workers who once made up the bulk of the rental market, Ms. Tuckerman had a strict budget and was willing to live uptown to stay in Manhattan.
An influx of artists, designers, young people in the city’s burgeoning technology sector and other industries is helping to drive rent prices down because they typically make less money than those in financial services, which has seen weaker job growth, according to the report by real-estate marketing consultant Nancy Packes, released with SteetEasy.com and On-Site.com, a national leasing and tenant screening company.
“Lower wages are contributing to lower rental growth,” Ms. Packes wrote. “The highly compensated finance sector is losing market share to the technology and creative industries.”
It is another sign of how New York’s economic recovery has been robust yet underwhelming, with strong job growth but often in fields that pay less. Historically, Ms. Packes said, job growth has led to big gains in Manhattan rents. But in 2012, when private-sector jobs in the city grew by 2.4%, the fifth best year since 1990, rents didn’t rise. A survey by Citi Habitats showed Manhattan rents falling in each of the last five months, down to $3,211 a month in January from a peak of $3,461 in August.
The difference, Ms. Packes said, is the renters themselves.
Back in 2006, nearly 60% of new renters worked in the financial sector; now about 40% do. Workers in creative fields and technology have nearly doubled, now making up nearly three out of 10 renters, the report found.
Despite strong demand for apartments, the trend of lower-paid workers is capping rent increases, setting a limit on how high rents can go—outside super luxury buildings—now and possibly for years to come, the report found.
Not everyone agrees with Ms. Packes. Barbara Byrne Denham, chief economist at Eastern Consolidated, a commercial brokerage and real-estate-service company, said rents may be simply going through a temporary pause after “too many landlords raised rents too much and chased away tenants.” Overall, rents were up 4% in the city in 2012, Ms. Packes’s report found, although that is lower than in past years when there was job growth.
The city has successfully pushed to attract more technology workers and creative types, but their finances tend to be stretched thinner than that of Wall Street employees, according to the lease data studied by Ms. Packes. Usually landlords want tenants with gross income at least 40 times their monthly rent. The income ratios varied from more than 50 times rent for lawyers, 45 for finance, but only 40 for tech people and 32 for creative workers.
Even with slightly lower rents, technology and creative workers are finding the city’s market is tough.
Ms. Tuckerman, who plays Donna in “Mamma Mia!,” was taken aback by the rental market when she returned to New York after traveling for a few years. Before she went on tour, landlords were offering to pay for brokers fees. Now, no-fee apartments have all but disappeared.
Ms. Tuckerman was in Vancouver when her broker, Kristin Cantwell of Citi Habitats, heard about an apartment on West 137th Street that was about to go on the market. Ms. Cantwell videotaped the apartment and the street, and a friend inspected it for her as well.
“I was totally in love with this kind of apartment,” she said. “I realized very quickly when something in the market is good you have to grab it.”
When Devin Asaro moved to New York last fall to take a job with a Internet-search startup, he had hoped to move to a trendy neighborhood in Brooklyn similar to his neighborhood in San Francisco, with farmers markets and vegetarian restaurants nearby. Instead he and his girlfriend, Ryan Willard, an editor, wound up on the far Upper East Side.
Mr. Asaro, a writer and expert on search-engine optimization, set a limit of $2,000 a month including fees and commissions, according to his broker Andrea Saturno-Sanjana of Citi Habitats.
But that wasn’t enough to rent a one bedroom in now well-established neighborhoods such as Williamsburg. So Ms. Saturno-Sanjana helped them find a studio on the far East Side of Manhattan, on East 81st Street east of First Avenue for $1,595 a month. It is a fourth-floor walk-up with two windows and neat hard wood floors.
“There wasn’t much available,” Mr. Asaro said.
Brokers said a lot of tech and creative workers want to be downtown but find it too expensive. “Occasionally they will look in the East Village,” Ms. Cantwell said. “It depends on what their day job is.”
While expensive high-service luxury buildings, such as New York by Gehry, on Spruce Street downtown, may see rents continue to grow, the changes in the broader market could continue to limit rents in the future, Ms. Packes said.
“Lower per-capita income of new hires will temper rental-growth rates in Manhattan, Brooklyn and Queens in ways not previously seen,” she said.
Con’t [63];
Damn tag-str!pping. That’s John –underscore– Doebinski –at– yahoo –dot– com.
Grim #32: Grato? Seriously? Went there once as part of a group from work and the waiter said “Ladies first”, took the orders from all the other women (not hot chicks, age 35-51), then took the guys’ orders, and I had to stop him from leaving to take my order. I’m under five feet tall, but I’m not freaking invisible. Will never, ever, ever, ever go back. Food was mediocre, too.
Are you a Hermaphrodite?
Jill says:
February 19, 2013 at 12:20 pm
Grim #32: Grato? Seriously? Went there once as part of a group from work and the waiter said “Ladies first”, took the orders from all the other women (not hot chicks, age 35-51), then took the guys’ orders, and I had to stop him from leaving to take my order. I’m under five feet tall, but I’m not freaking invisible. Will never, ever, ever, ever go back. Food was mediocre, too.
Sorry to get in late on the fire discussion earlier, but here are my thoughts on sprinkler systems and the like.
I have a side-business that must have sprinkler systems functional at its retail location. The major ongoing costs are the annual inspections (required) and alarm system. My guess as to why the NJ legislature wants these installed is for the sop to the private and govt inspectors. The govt inspector has to be cc’ed on all documents and must sign off. Work work work.
On the other hand, I don’t see them forcing retrofits, even when remodeling. There was a requirement once that remodeling required all bedroom windows to be replaced with egress models – expensive stuff. The req finally got beat back several years ago.
“It’s 12K today. When it was 6K we said the same thing. Blink and it becomes 18K. At what end does it stop? Oh, I get it, it’s competitive here, if one can’t afford to live here then one should consider leaving the state. I guess that’s why NJ is No. 1 in outflow. Salaries rising to keep pace? LOL! Sure.”
It will never stop, that’s my point. NJ is a mess, and will never change. So either embrace the madness, or move on. Betting the supply of NJ home-buying fools will run dry isn’t a winning proposition.
Competitive, not competitive, flat salaries, rising salaries, it doesn’t matter much. The fact remains there are many people out there with either the finances, or lack of brains, to pay what sellers are asking today. Not many houses have to sell in a town to set current values, so if just five wealthy/moronic people overpay for a house in your town, your rationalizations and calculations go right out the window.
How is the cap going? I had 2.5 percent increase last year
Oh, and about Cape Coral..
My eldest’s future FIL bought there at the top of the bubble. Paid 650k for a rancher on a lagoon lot. About 150 feet frontage, not bad. Had to take a take-back and sold it for $240k about 2 years ago. Don’t feel bad, though. He bought it for cash after socking down serious $$ from a golden parachute. retired since his mid-50s. Still has another home on the water there and family has places in Wildwood.
Major Anthony Nelson used to live there.
xolepa says:
February 19, 2013 at 1:21 pm
Oh, and about Cape Coral..
So I looked at some investment properties this weekend. Told realtor if I rent 52 weeks a year I must break even at least.
Then I did math on condo she showed me, fees, taxes, insurance and the mortgage with 20% down resulted in a $200 a month loss.
Interesting Unit sold back at peak for 125K more, when rates were higher. What were people thinking.
This case was a newlywed couple who bought at peak, condo is now empty as they had a kid, bought a new home and now condo is now empty.
My math has them paying $500 bucks a month more than rent two own over 8 years and now selling for a $125k loss. Insane. Why do newlywed couples with no kids insist on jumping into home ownership from Spring 2003 to Spring 2009. I can see if you get married and things are dirt cheap, but if super expensive, you both are working and kids are 3-7 years away what is rush?
LOL. So property tax rise is a bubble that is not only impervious to popping, but will also never affect house prices either? And NJ will always be the promised land that home-buying fools with every growing salaries will always flock to? Ha Ha, that’s a good one.
It will never stop, that’s my point. NJ is a mess, and will never change. So either embrace the madness, or move on. Betting the supply of NJ home-buying fools will run dry isn’t a winning proposition.
JJ – Let me hazard a guess. Probably a pretty well-kept building with high owner occupancy? I think that’s a trick that some well run condo associations play. Keep the fees nice and high, add to the reserves for future cap improvements and at the same time keep the investors at bay by using the elevated fees to keep them from positive cash flow, except maybe on an all cash purchase, in which case the investor now has big skin in the game too.
So I looked at some investment properties this weekend. Told realtor if I rent 52 weeks a year I must break even at least.
Then I did math on condo she showed me, fees, taxes, insurance and the mortgage with 20% down resulted in a $200 a month loss.
All of that. The part that keeps investors out is fact building is on beach. Summer you can rent unit for like 21k. Winter you can rent unit for 2k a month for 16k. Peak month down there units rent for 8k a month.
So they told me subletting was allowed. I get there and they spring the bylaws state you can have a all year tenant, a summer tenant or a winter tenant.
You cannot have a winter tenant AND a summer tenant in same year, one or another.
I wanted unit to use for my personal use every July. Then get a tenant from Memorial Day till June 30, then August 1st to Labor day and then a winter tennant if I could.
That is not allowed. They want to limit the transitory nature of unit. For instance Craigs list, VRBO weekly/monthly rental.
I can see that. But folks no longer have 16 weeks to sit at beach each year. Kids are in school most of June, and by end of August getting ready for back to school. Plus I only can use two weeks vacation at once, I like to save time for winter, between July 4, two weeks vacation and four weekends I could use the heck out of it in one month.
My buddy in Hamptons does that, he does not even bother with a winter tenant anymore. Has one couple he rents to April 1st to June 30 and another couple August 1 to October 31. Both couples like the spring fall seasons and he throws them in at at a good price. He just skips November-March and locks up house. But this complex wont even let me do that. It is a shame as I would have paid the price if it was not for that one clause.
I ended up telling realtor, unless unit went really cheap in next few weeks and I could use it all this summer and then turn it into ye rental not worth it.
The Original NJ Expat says:
February 19, 2013 at 1:55 pm
JJ – Let me hazard a guess. Probably a pretty well-kept building with high owner occupancy? I think that’s a trick that some well run condo associations play. Keep the fees nice and high, add to the reserves for future cap improvements and at the same time keep the investors at bay by using the elevated fees to keep them from positive cash flow, except maybe on an all cash purchase, in which case the investor now has big skin in the game too.
So I looked at some investment properties this weekend. Told realtor if I rent 52 weeks a year I must break even at least.
Then I did math on condo she showed me, fees, taxes, insurance and the mortgage with 20% down resulted in a $200 a month loss.
re: # 62 – ” elitism from northerners”
Last time I checked the issues you cite were due to the exodus from the South from 1940 to 1970, of some five million of the south’s descendants of former slaves who migrated to the urban Northern cities.
Now that the jobs that they all came up for here are gone, it is perhaps now time that we need a new public policy. If you collect a check you need to move somewhere cheaper. Whether it be Atlanta or some other place south it would be be better to just support people in the south with welfare than the North.
I hate the South. Part of reason I am looking for a bungalow or condo now post sandy is retirement planning.
I could in retirement move down south to a state with no income tax, stay 7 months a year and come up to NY for May through Sept each year. Best of both worlds. When mortgage is paid off, a winter tenant on a low cost place covers everything.
Juice Box says:
February 19, 2013 at 2:21 pm
re: # 62 – ” elitism from northerners”
Last time I checked the issues you cite were due to the exodus from the South from 1940 to 1970, of some five million of the south’s descendants of former slaves who migrated to the urban Northern cities.
Now that the jobs that they all came up for here are gone, it is perhaps now time that we need a new public policy. If you collect a check you need to move somewhere cheaper. Whether it be Atlanta or some other place south it would be be better to just support people in the south with welfare than the North.
JJ,
I have that option already, well almost. House in NY state on a lake and a lot in SW Florida in a gated golf community. Just need to put a nice house on it. Sell my too big of a house in Hunterdon county when the time comes. Get the heck out of Dodge.
My brother has a nice house on the beach in Palm Islands, SC. Son’s in-laws at the Jersey shore.
It all seems idyllic. Far enough into the future that makes you think will I ever get there. Good Health is the key.
Health is key, starting back in gym next week now that sandy stuff is done.
xolepa says:
February 19, 2013 at 2:46 pm
JJ,
I have that option already, well almost. House in NY state on a lake and a lot in SW Florida in a gated golf community. Just need to put a nice house on it. Sell my too big of a house in Hunterdon county when the time comes. Get the heck out of Dodge.
My brother has a nice house on the beach in Palm Islands, SC. Son’s in-laws at the Jersey shore.
It all seems idyllic. Far enough into the future that makes you think will I ever get there. Good Health is the key.
Amityville, N.Y. — the setting for 1977 book, The Amityville Horror, and a series of movies that followed — faced a horror of its own this week.
S&P slapped the Long Island village with a three-notch “superdowngrade,” from A- to BBB-, citing its deteriorating finances and concern about the town’s ability to pay off $1.4 million in notes due in May.
S&P says Amityville is planning to do a short-term borrowing to help with superstorm Sandy damages, and the Long Island town is too reliant on short-term debt fixes to help bridge gaps in its cash flows.
Superdowngrades of local governments are generally still a small percentage of ratings firm actions, but they have become more common amid the tough economy, raising eyebrows amid some investors.
Expat, before you build those straw men, at least bother to read what I’ve actually written.
Home prices are set at the margins; only a few transactions need take place to set “the market” for town X. There will always be people with more money, or less brains, to participate in those transactions and set the market.
That’s not a defense of NJ (which I’ve not done with even a single word), it’s just how things work. Don’t like the real estate market where dual NYC incomes mean $200K household incomes are pedestrian? Then it’s time to look elsewhere.
People here can readily afford $600,000 homes (3X income), and justify paying high NJ taxes “for the children.” Nothing will change.
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200K is the salary of a garbage picker in most NJ towns. Believe it or not people lie all the time about income, usually saying it is less. My Sandy income is usually between 90k and 199k. No one every says they make 500K, they make it something like 150K.
Realors will tell you, pretty shocking how rich folks are.
Statler Waldorf says:
February 19, 2013 at 3:38 pm
Expat, before you build those straw men, at least bother to read what I’ve actually written.
Home prices are set at the margins; only a few transactions need take place to set “the market” for town X. There will always be people with more money, or less brains, to participate in those transactions and set the market.
That’s not a defense of NJ (which I’ve not done with even a single word), it’s just how things work. Don’t like the real estate market where dual NYC incomes mean $200K household incomes are pedestrian? Then it’s time to look elsewhere.
People here can readily afford $600,000 homes (3X income), and justify paying high NJ taxes “for the children.” Nothing will change.
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/bmw-announces-2nd-recall-week-1C8415369
Circle of life in Bergen County – Here’s an anecdotal story about movement of quality inventory.
Mr. & Mrs. T, in their 70’s and retired for 10 years, live in their paid off house in BC which carries a $16K tax bill. They’ve lived there for 40+ years.
Mr & Mrs. M, live just down the street. They are in their early 40’s with a very nice income and bought their house in 2002 for $425K. They have small kids and would like to expand their cape, but the property size just doesn’t lend itself to expansion.
Mr. & Mrs. W live in Brookline MA, have a very nice house that they bought for about $800K in 2007. Mr W. has landed a new job in NY and is separated from his family during the work week and they want to relocate to Bergen County.
Here’s how the story plays out.
40 year old Mr. M knocks on 70+ year old Mr. T’s door and offers to buy his house as he would like to move down the block and expand the house to fit his family. They reach an agreement and Mr. T buys Mr. M’s house for $799K in December 2011 with no realtor.
The M family has the means to carry both houses and renovates the new house for a few months in early 2012 and then moves in. The T family moves to an apartment close by and adds the $799K to their deficient retirement coffers.
February 2012 the M family puts their old house down the street on the market for $639K while they move into their new house right down the street. This is a real listing with a realtor.
The W family (the one with the family in MA for 9 months while the husband works in NY) buys the house from the M family for $605K in July 2012. They also sell their Brookline house (which they purchased for $799K) for $816K about a week before.
Everyone is now happy, but let’s examines what’s happened.
The T family took $799K out of the market and pocketed it.
The M family took ~$200K of equity gain and moved it down the street while moving to a house that cost $200K more. Wash for them.
The W family, still in their 40’s, DOWNSIZED their house by $200K.
So about $800K left the market with the T family while the M family upsized by $200K and the W family downsized by $200K. Draw your own conclusions.
Sounds like Bernie Madoff math
The Original NJ Expat says:
February 19, 2013 at 4:04 pm
Circle of life in Bergen County – Here’s an anecdotal story about movement of quality inventory.
Should read that Mr. M buys Mr. T’s house.
Also stated is that the MA family bought in 2007 for $800K and sold for $816K in 2012 which doesn’t make sense. They actually bought in August 2008 for $797K and then sold for $816K in 2012, probably part of that appreciation was improvements.
40 year old Mr. M knocks on 70+ year old Mr. T’s door and offers to buy his house as he would like to move down the block and expand the house to fit his family. They reach an agreement and Mr. T buys Mr. M’s house for $799K in December 2011 with no realtor.
One more thing, the old couple that sold their house and moved to an apartment – the husband just died. That’s what he gets for not heeding grim’s command to “we just need them not to sell”.
The 40 year old guy banged that 70 year old women to get that deal to work.
Not beyond the realm of possibility. You know better than most what goes on in train towns;-)
JJ says:
February 19, 2013 at 4:27 pm
The 40 year old guy banged that 70 year old women to get that deal to work.
Pulling a train in a train town baby
train towns;-)
If you don’t get any bites on the first try re-list it again and and with no address.
Was $749k Then $679k now $599k….
Don’t tell anyone about it they might steal it from me..
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/%28undisclosed-Address%29-Middletown-NJ-07748/2114740542_zpid/
re: #86 – “pretty shocking how rich folks”
Yeah bleeding wealth every day on real estate that is underwater.
The reason I chased down the details on this transaction today is because my wife spent her younger years in the middle house of that transaction. Before her parents moved down the street themselves to a house that now commands $34K in taxes.
grim – It’s 2013, for chrisakes. When do we get a “like” button ?
JJ says:
February 19, 2013 at 4:32 pm
Pulling a train in a train town baby
train towns;-)
re: “The T family moves to an apartment close by”
Do you mean East Coast or West Coast of Florida?
I’m probably missing a joke in here somewhere, but it’s more like the West Coast of Ridgewood.
Juice Box says:
February 19, 2013 at 4:40 pm
re: “The T family moves to an apartment close by”
Do you mean East Coast or West Coast of Florida?
And then ultimately sold that house to a knock-knock offer (who knows, maybe a bang-bang offer?)
The reason I chased down the details on this transaction today is because my wife spent her younger years in the middle house of that transaction. Before her parents moved down the street themselves to a house that now commands $34K in taxes.
Based on what I know of football teams in Florida, they will be well acquainted with their sponsor in due course.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/florida-atlantic-close-stadium-naming-rights-deal-prison-171206798–ncaaf.html
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Statler [84],
No argument here. It’s all in the sales pitch. Nail a rock to a f.ucking stick and apply the proper tag line and you’ll have 1diots lining up to pay top dollar. Tulip bulbs anyone? How about a rare Cabbage Patch doll? Gotta have the iShit at a zillion dollars, the “other” product at half the price just won’t do. After all, we all need to belong.
If we had the YES Network in Boston my wife would be completely satisfied and I would be under-utilized.
Expat are you us me they aren’t in Florida right now with their cash and the apt in Ridegwood isn’t just a summer place?
ak! telling us they aren’t in Florida… un ak!
Juice- Still in North Jersey, harboring the cash. That may well end at the end of the 1 year lease.
China RE market on fire
1 sq m is equal to 5x disposable income
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-19/china-housing-slaves-helping-property-rebound-mortgages.htmlhttp://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-19/china-housing-slaves-helping-property-rebound-mortgages.html
jj (94)-
Whoa. Dylan should write the rest of this song.
“Pulling a train in a train town baby”
expat (105)-
Is this online Charades? Is the answer “dild0”?
“If we had the YES Network in Boston my wife would be completely satisfied and I would be under-utilized.”
Here’s why gluteus is laying low:
Arsenal News: Another Humiliating Home Defeat In The Champions League For Wenger
BY christopher.arnfield | February 19 2013 5:36 PM
Hot on the heels of the humiliation against Blackburn Rovers at The Emirates Stadium in the FA Cup match against Championship side Blackburn, comes another home defeat; this time against the Bundesliga runaway leaders, Bayern Munich, in the Champions League first leg at the Emirates Stadium (1-3).
Buck up, glute; Bayern could’ve scored 8.
In 1887, Grover Cleveland issued his most well-known veto, that of the Texas Seed Bill. After a drought had ruined crops in several Texas counties, Congress appropriated $10,000 to purchase seed grain for farmers there. Cleveland vetoed the expenditure. In his veto message, he espoused a theory of limited government:
“I can find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Constitution, and I do not believe that the power and duty of the general government ought to be extended to the relief of individual suffering which is in no manner properly related to the public service or benefit. A prevalent tendency to disregard the limited mission of this power and duty should, I think, be steadfastly resisted, to the end that the lesson should be constantly enforced that, though the people support the government, the government should not support the people. The friendliness and charity of our countrymen can always be relied upon to relieve their fellow-citizens in misfortune. This has been repeatedly and quite lately demonstrated. Federal aid in such cases encourages the expectation of paternal care on the part of the government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character, while it prevents the indulgence among our people of that kindly sentiment and conduct which strengthens the bonds of a common brotherhood.”
joyce (114)-
Pandora’s Box was long ago opened. We won’t ever be able to shut it.
Sure a long way from giving away some seeds to TBTF and free pieces of green paper to banksters.
#113 Clot
Better to have loved and lost. We have the TV money for reaching the knockout and chasing 4th in the league, there is always next year if we can’t level it on the return leg.
Hows the relegation battle warming up for you?
From Trader Joe’s website:
#Why do some dairy labels have the following disclaimer on the label: ‘No significant difference has been shown between milk derived from cows treated with artificial hormones and those not treated with artificial hormones’?
“All dairy products that do NOT contain added rBST must put this disclaimer on the packaging label. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) Law requires the disclaimer.”
Note the bass-ackwards REQUIREMENT courtesy of the FDA
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gluteus (117)-
You might want to actually check the table once in a while. We are not going to be in a drop zone battle.
OTOH, I admire your team’s burning desire to finish fourth. With yet another year of no silverware.
joyce (118)-
I’d rather skin-pop melamine than drink that swill.
#120 Clot
4 off the drop and 12 to play, with the way your playing I would not be that confident.
excellent points altogether, you just gained a new reader. What would you suggest in regards to your post that you made some days ago? Any positive?
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